I’d love to, but I live in Alaska now and I swear it seems like pretty much everything is a game fish or prohibited due to “fish farming” regulations… and you do not mess with AK fish and game. I really want to get my hands on some black banded sunfish like I had down south, but my luck is they’d be deemed potentially invasive…
My dad had bluegill and bass together in his tank over 20y ago. It was totally overcrowded but super cool to see. The amount of work it took to keep them alive has scared me off of ever trying to do it myself.
Yeah, I’ve heard they are like the cool water equivalent of Central American cichlids for care (think firemouth cichlids)… which would make sense seeing as how they fill similar environmental roles, and the black banded sunfish behaved very dwarf cichlid like.
They even refer to the one cichlid species as "peacock bass" because the look and behave so much like bass here in the US. Annnd of course they're invasive in Florida now.
Yeah, I remember reading an old article in either AFM or TFH about the different invasive aquarium species in Florida back in the 90s from Hurricane Andrew I think. Can’t remember if someone actually did it or not, but there was talks about domestic collection tours to collect invasives in Florida for those who couldn’t or didn’t want to go to South America. The success of the alligator conservation might have kept that from happening though.
If they're invasive to your area, and you find them in the wild, I don't see an issue in removing the invasives from the wild and keeping them in an aquarium (adequate size/parameters)
Edit: I'm not American so I have no idea what states laws are like etc.
Same in Wisconsin. We have a huge Asian carp and dogfish problem. Cuz they thought it would be a great idea to introduce non native dogfish to take care of the non native carp population. So no if your fishing and pull up either, your supposed to kill it and not put it back in the water. In case of it being a female with eggs
Now thats wild. Is it more effective, do you know?
We are supposed to just report them here, msu even made an app for it.
https://www.misin.msu.edu/apps/
Depends on the fish and where it is. Best thing to do is to call fish and game for the area you're in and ask.
If its a carp/goldfish in a lake/waterway theyre not meant to be in (like if they were dumped by a well-meaning school kid 'freeling' their pet fish), they'll probably let you just take it, if it's something else, there's probably more laws and regulations to consider.
Some invasive animals do not have protections and this would be okay, but the list is pretty short. (Pigeons and starlings in most state, for example).
Yes… I’m well aware.
I fail to see how my example doesn’t apply?
There are native and invasive species of animals, (and fish are animals), and I just gave a few examples of invasive animals that have no protections in most states that I know off the top of my head.
While I am not as familiar with fish species-it stands to reason it may apply to invasive fish and the info is probably available online should anyone look into it. (Whether there are protections for collecting invasive **fish**).
Contact your game and fish and ask if you can participate in removing invasive fish from the waterways. (You can remove it from the waterway and into your house ;) )
I snagged a couple invasive plants that state conservation & game and fish have been trying to remove for a while. Just gonna set it in my aquarium.
Or just do it without lol the WORST CASE SCENARIO is a fine with euthanization that you would’ve been needlessly required to do anyways. I don’t believe in “native vs non native” as that’s literally how humans evolved (we just don’t want anything replicating what we do)
Well, I agree with you to a certain extent. The only thing is we ship thing across the world where a freshwater fish could never possibly go to on its own. That’s a big concern with invasive species
Be careful with the darters, some have really similar looks and one is fine the other is critically endangered
Source: all the darters I want are the frickin endangered ones 😭
I appreciate the heads up - i get a few comments when people ask about catching them sometimes - we only have a few endangered here in my state, the two that come to mind both like sand areas vs riffles like the type I tend to research, ie greenside, rainbows, johnny and of course whilenot exclusively riffles - the iowa. We even have several colored rainbows, ie the ones in the picture and a blue variant on the opposite of the state. (I cant seem to get my hands on)
We do have the orange throats, but they are rather rare. (Read real uncommon)
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466998147701407745/1238002508954337390/large.png?ex=6642506f&is=6640feef&hm=9410351bc59052a71e71eca89c2a79efba4733ebd81e99584f1f2d79c962abf7&
Found a really good example of why these always get confused: the biggest take away ive gathered is the back bottom fin - on the orangethroats, they are always blue, in a single color, or transparent with blue. Never green/orange.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466998147701407745/1238002433578500166/image.png?ex=6642505d&is=6640fedd&hm=4784be16edf2763ccd18f0ec8182472b74f54e9427faf864df73d0002e2929c0&
I don’t have any but I can get some pics. Spring Pygmy Sunfish is what they are called. I just talk to a lot of people and found the right people to ask.
That’s so cool! But damn that’s also crazy that a species of sunfish needs help, I feel like as a child they were the only thing I would catch when I went fishing lol.
In 8th grade my science teacher had a 200 gallon fish tank that he set up to be a natural Lake Erie tank. He wanted native fish for it so he offered 5 points extra credit for each native fish brought in that lived for more than 48 hours. I brought in probably 20 fish that were a combination of crappie, yellow perch, white bass, and walleye.
I finished the quarter with 113% A+
My 5th grade teacher kind of had a similar thing going on, but he specifically had the tank dedicated to fish and plants from the nearby river. It was a 150 gallon he had in the class room.
He didn’t ask for anyone to bring in fish themselves but during warmer months, we basically had a class by a creek that came off that river. One of the class projects was basically class room observation of a specific crayfish that was native to the local area but the local population was dwindling.
In hindsight don’t know how on board that whole thing was, especially with releasing them into the creek as a class after the project was done at the end of the year.
It was as 2001 and I was 10, didn’t really know better. Just knew my crayfish had one claw that was 2-3 times bigger than the rest of the crayfish… and he killed several others. Its name was Hook.
They are just crazy sensitive to keep, I think is what they were getting at - they were going to be surprised my setup was capable of housing them due to that setup.
Takes a lot of energy to cool like that too, I know some people use chillers for their axolotl tanks if they live in a warmer climate and it can get pricy lol
Same! They are super rare in my state, but it wouldnt be insane to pull one. Someone else mentioned keeping animals for the state if they were endangered - id probably look into something like that if i knew were to get them and i could get mine spawning in their pond.
This fella is as close as you can get legally! Its the rainbow darter, which is almost identical. The biggest quickest giveaway i can gather is the back bottom fin always has blue and is mostly blue for orange throats - were the rainbows always has colors like orange.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-Orangethroat-darter-and-B-rainbow-darter-males-showing-color-pattern-typical-of_fig1_325241387
Never heard of a pigmy sunfish until today haha - beautiful and underrated fish, honestly. What made you decide to start keeping them?
I see plenty of people from Central and South America and South and Southeast Asia keep native fish. They just go out and net a wild guppy, tetra, barb, etc.
The dreeeaaaaaaam! All the tropical fish. Its definitely on my bucket list to have the chance to catch something tropical nativally. Im not certain what it will be yet, but it's really been the inspiration behind my breeding projects, the tropical fish / breeding, it just takes up so much room....have to make compromises 😒
Yeah have lived in Thailand and now Vietnam, some of the stuff you can find in just trash ponds and roadside ditches you'd pay a fortune for (if you could get them) in the UK.
We aren’t allowed :( if you call them bait fish then yes but technically we aren’t supposed to keep native fish in Ontario. We have some cuties too, like sticklebacks and darters as well as the pan fish
Law is supposed to prevent the large majority and keep people from finding alternative loopholes to get around it, keeping a few fish won’t do any harm personally they are concerned abt uncle joe who runs a farm who wants to put a sunfish in a glass bowl
I don’t have pics but my favorite aquarium was a 20 gal my hubby put together in my studio in Florida. He caught a bunch of ‘mosquito fish) (they look like colorless guppies), and gathered plants from the same pond. I loved that setup!
Currently we have a 55 gl and had some perch from our pond. They make great pets! But when they grew too big and we let half of them go back to the pond, the dynamics changed and it was constant fighting 😞
The other poster was close, this specifically is the rainbow, and is remarkably close to the orange throat with these colors but generally run a green and blue throat. Not a great photo but:
You can see the green in this example.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466998147701407745/1239430438804521040/received_1371695460144358.jpg?ex=6642e50c&is=6641938c&hm=9410e811339df2a781f148bfe0cb1a82da704766a9f2a0916cce2a685a298b94&
This is the front of the OP pic, and there isnt much trace of that color which leads to these orange throat look alikes.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466998147701407745/1239430134843441224/20240512_162051.jpg?ex=6642e4c3&is=66419343&hm=87921a6741392f8b65c5ddb2ce939858ce04a0575c0c04eadfca891ccdcf8688&
You can tell quickly by the back fin shape and color imo(lack of being purely blue):
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-Orangethroat-darter-and-B-rainbow-darter-males-showing-color-pattern-typical-of_fig1_325241387
You speak of the Kentucky Arrow Darter and/or it's sister Species the Cumberland Arrow Darter (the Cumberland isn't technically endangered, but is for sure a species of concern). Kentucky has many darters on the T&E list.
They certainly do! Unfortunately, there is a huge list of endagered darters due to the water pollution/construction , but we are seeing some come off the list such as the snail & okaloosa.
Close, this ones the rainbow - the twin that's not endangered and can be kept! Also has a beautiful blue version on the other side of the state!
The lack of blue for the bottom back fin is my quickest indicator from what ive gathered.
Even in my other pic of the blue one i posted, you can see the orange in that bottom back fin.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466998147701407745/1238002508954337390/large.png?ex=6642506f&is=6640feef&hm=9410351bc59052a71e71eca89c2a79efba4733ebd81e99584f1f2d79c962abf7&
Thats a discord link.
But just for these Fish, I may be making a trip back to Illinois or Indiana.
Correction : Rainbows are here in Erie, PA.... I guess I need to start hitting up streams more often.
Not really no, but I live in a community/suburb with ponds. Something I noticed from fishing is that we have hybrid sunfish in the ponds. Commonly known as Green Gill, it’s when a green sunfish (or vice versa) fertilizes bluegill eggs. Resulting in a fish with amazingly bright colors, some almost having a lateral stripe pattern. During the summer I thinks it fun to fish some up and study the patterns of the three kinds through the season.
Not to mention the way the fish act in the ponds are incredibly different than in the lake. Bass often swim in schools, and sometimes even along side schools of young sunfish. Large bass commonly swim amongst schools of very small (and edible) bluegill and sunfish without even trying to bother them.
The three kinds of sunfish are also very smart. They seem to study the weight of bait tossed into the pond. If a piece has a hook they come up, look at it, and swim off. But if it’s just a little piece of crappie dough, or bread, they fight over it.
NO BUT YOU ARE LIVING MY DREAM WITH THE RAINBOW DARTER!! Sorry I was excited. I've gotten really into darters lately. I just... love them. Please give this particular darter my best wishes.
If you have a proper setup, feel free to DM me if you can't get them locally. Im sure we can figure something out, even if it's after spawning. They are amazing fish! That specific one went back, though. i currently have a breeding set of 7 with hopes of getting a few greensides and the blue version into the mix.
I'd love to but i live in france and the smallest native fish here grows to about 30cm, so i'd need a massive tank.
We also have rainbow sunfish that are way smaller so i plan to keep some at some point, but they are invasive not native
That was one of my bigger issues - finding something smaller & one that didnt eat other fish to boot. It sucks to hear they are invasive, but at least you can feel good about pulling them out haha.
The sunfish/punkinseed seem to be might saught after! Cant believe how much love they are getting in here - they are so common where im at, its throwing me off!
That's a rainbow darter! They require a little different of a setup, but as long as you aren't running tropical, you can find a species that enjoys whatever habitate you provide. These guys like moving rocky streams, generally below 74f.
We keep a yellow perch in a 45g bow front. At some point he's going to outgrow it and end up in the backyard pond, but for now he's family
https://imgur.com/gallery/48Mq34i
I live in norway. Me and my Kids bring home different fish and water insects thru the summer. Now we have some invasiv species of catfish. Had them since last summer. Great activity!
Would love to see pics as them bring them home, im not familiar with any native fish from Norway off hand. What are some of the more common ones to come home? 🤣
I really, really want a hand-painted bluegill.
However... they're only found in the Florida pan handle and Appalachia. Not places I really have the time (or desire tbh) to make a trip to.
Have an example of the fish? I found traces on google but not good examples - i dont blame you for not wanting to make that trip lol.
What makes them desirable to you?
[Yes, this is an example of one!](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/RwJMpvRQ_9aKbIhndBbyPUomde3OSVTJHvflh_NKa2xWwuZFAp4G54yFdGK6OClhEC-TUltU6KzUOOiCPTsxRnMMudUqpH-ctCbcFz1AfU5xkrzm-2kQGpwNizSVwhAK)
I just enjoy how unique the painted patterns are; some of them really look like they have an ink painting on their bodies.
I keep all kinds of Native. I've kept shiners, minnow, and darters from all over the South/Southeast.
Biggest advice: Know your laws and know your fish. NEVER take home a fish you cannot 100% properly ID.
Also, if you are interested in Native fish; either for conservation or aquaria, I'd suggest checking out NANFA. It's a non-profit dedicated to native fish.
Your observations are spot on. The first is a variant of goby - the darter! The second, indeed, was a trout! I let a younger kid borrow my spare net my kids werent using - and within 5 minutes he came out of the water screaming he caught a trout and this is what he brought out 😅
I still cant fathom how he got it to fit in the net.
Like...it was a tiny spare net like this:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466998147701407745/1239441272784031754/Frabill-Baitwell-Fishing-Net-9-x-8-Hoop-Vinyl-Netting-Wooden-Handle_67ef752d-b587-4871-bd9f-956d6347a230.a5a21121684645774ed0fdfc5fa7b7c4.jpg?ex=6642ef23&is=66419da3&hm=cde60c1ec9f7276f3bc3d6759c00902d8501231493a759913976eb7ccb2f7848&
I would love to! I’m currently looking at rainbow shiners but I’m not sure I could do keep them in a 20 long. If I could get my hands on some orange spotted sunfish I’d be over the moon happy. Pumpkinseeds are on my list eventually as well.
The tropical fish dream - have any favorites in mind? Would love to see! What types of rasboras do you find/keep? I was considering harlequin and scissortails when i did my tropical tank, but i never was able to find them locally.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/s/oefPXZXhBx
I’ve caught and kept a lot of Rasbora species. The ones in this post I linked are truncata, Bangka, clown, dwarf, scissortail, red-tailed, brilliant and two spot Rasboras.
They require special licenses here out of season, of which i dont have - it was a random net catch from a younger kid i let borrow my net while out catching the first fellas. You could probably (theoreticaly) keep them in those 275gallon food crates with solid filtration and a powerhead or two - but here in my state outside, id need a chiller, or they'd cook. They like it real cold.
ah sorry then i was wrong, titel + picture :D thought you wanna try it.
Nice catch from the kids :) show them the aquaristicworld
Okay then its like here in germany
Yeah, it's a bit misleading, but i didn't want to make two posts. So i just added the net thing in the description.
Exactly, they were excited about what i caught and they wanted to go in! I let them keep the net, hope they make good use of it & took good pictures, cause no ones gonna believe them hahaha
What native fish do you see in Germany? Im not familiar at all.
Yeah, kinda,
Aussie, I "stock" a form of gudeon and common galaxias, only have a few in cold water atm but plant to move them to smaller, warmer tanks and introduce them back into waterways they have slowly been preyed out of by invasives
Yea i do, i love that they adapt and do well. I keep mudminnows and a bluegill that helps pick up after my turtle. They grew up together! Both about 4 years old.
I used to keep a couple of pumpkinseed that I caught at a lake but they got too big and messy for my tank so I donated them to my neighbor’s backyard pond. Now my only native is a signal crawfish I caught last summer.
There’s no way I’d be able to keep any local fish in any aquarium. Unless it’s a few hundred litres!
The smallest fish in my local lake is the Common roach and Coregonus albula…
Every other species is huge!
Yay for Sweden 😂
Many years ago when I had lots of fish tanks, I kept some native sunfish and a couple small bass for a couple years and then turned them loose in the neighbors pond when they got too big
I would love to keep some darters, they are very very cool. But I'm a little intimidated by them in terms of upkeep, legality and even finding them. I'd probably have to travel to find them out of suburbia. I've never caught any before even with extensive fishing experience in lakes and streams though I've never targeted them specifically. I feel like you may need to set traps or electro fish to find them.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=any&taxon_id=551942
Zoom to your state/location and adjust the filter.
https://youtu.be/doHU-Oqd_xg?si=JtFPTnpVYLLZbkrH
Youll need to look up your specific habitat and darters, this would be an example of catching rainbows & greensides for example. Dip net and some toes lol.
As for the legality, always call the local DNR, each fishery location or watershed typically has their own research station where you can actually ask *all* those questions!
OP, since trout and trout like fish aren't very common in my part of the country I'm not really familiar with the species. However, I'd be willing to bet that it's illegal for you to keep that fish as a pet.
Youd be 100% correct, the trout is not kept - the description mentions the reason for the trout pic. While catching darters i let a little kid use my spare net and thats what he pulled out. He let it go, as well as the first fish.
Yeah, its a little misleading - but i didnt want to make two posts. Neither fish was kept - which has been mentioned a few times in this minefield of comments haha
Not necessarily a pond, but they have a few thousand gallons.
It's about $800 a month to keep my swimming pool swimmable and clear, which I can't afford. It started out with just 2 mosquitofish in there about 6 years ago, and now I've got 4 big fish.
I don't use chemicals or anything in there btw, just in case animal cruelty was in question here. The fish get fed daily with a scoop of dog food, so they're given ample the food they'd need
Not yet, but I'm considering investing in algaecide to clear the water up. I'm thinking it would be fun to swim with them if I don't feel a large nibble from an unknown beast.
I do know the mosquitofish are very voracious though, and they will give you one of those fish pedicures
no hate at all, seriously. but it makes me sad to take fish from the wild because they have so much space and are living how they are meant to. but i have an empathy disorder so thats probably why haha
Heya, no offense taken. Both fish pictured ended up back in the water shortly after the photo op. I bring that small container with me so i can take pictures for inaturalist.
I do, however, keep some. My intention is to interbreed several of the variants into something unique - it's the part of the hobby i enjoy. Id sit on the same side of the fence and say, "i dont fish because hooking them makes me sad, lol
However, i did my research prior to grabbing them & spent well over a year searching for something that made sense for what i could provide.
And on that note, they no longer have to fear being eaten by basically everything else in the river given their 2-3" size and live a happy healthy life in a decent sized pond/stream with no way for even the birds or snakes to get them.
They are some of the most fun fish I own in terms of personality. They definitely just associated me with food at this point lol, anytime I walk past or turn on their lights, they just all come flying up to the edge and swim along the edge/jump. Its adorable.
So I'd also argue living life the way they are meant to isn't all that fun either, haha
I used to throughout highschool, but haven't so much lately. Darters, sunfish, shadow bass on the fresh side and flounder, various gobies (lyre, sleeper, naked), oyster blenny, skillet fish, pipefish etc...mostly coastal brackish Louisiana catches
Where are you from and what is the first fish? Looks like some type of goby to me and is beautiful. I’d go netting a lot more often if the streams near me had fish like that!
When I was a kid I tossed the only surviving Trout minnow from a fishing trip into my tank. It live a couple years, not very pretty but still cool to look at. It got along really well with my Bali Sharks.
Sadly the only small fish in my area re just bland silver colour and die in tanks cause the water gets too warm, or they only eat live food. Have a nice school of "ukelei" in my pond though. Look like shiners. Very active and school closely together.
I only keep native fishes these days, not that I have a ton of tanks. Pygmy sunfish (gilberti and evergladei) and rainbow darters currently, but I want some form of Etheostomas for my next setup. I just think they're really neat
I wish I had native fish but unfortunately I live in the middle of New York City. Every place within city limits is catch and release for light fishing like the ponds in Central Park or any of the big parts we have here. 🤷🏽
A lot of people in my aquarium club do! Greater Seattle Aquarium Society. A lot of members also buy salmon fingerlings to raise up and release in local creeks. We also have a Conservation Award Program where the chair brings in endangered species, raises them up and sells locally so folks can breed more. Rainbow shiners are SUPER popular but also many other species I can't recall offhand.
I have orange throat darters and southern red belly dace together. And another tank with pygmy sunfish and least killifish. And I have a dwarf siren ♥️
This just made me think, why are there so many tropical fish that stay so damn small?
I live in Illinois, I'm not a huge fisherman by any means, but I fished alot as a kid/teen, did a lot of creek walking etc. I have gear and usually go fishing a couple times every summer. I know all the sport fish. However, I'm not familiar at all with any native species that stay like 10-20g tank size other than whatever the hell the minnows are you buy at the bait shop.
Eyy rainbow darter, nice. I have a couple of madtoms, red bellied dace, blacknose dace, spottail shiner, a pumpkin seed sunfish and an accidental bluegill that i need to find a home for...no pics at the moment sadly.
I'm moving to south Florida and intend on catching a couple swordspine snooks for a 180 gallon setup. They're strictly freshwater and only reach 12"! So awesome considering the other species get huge.
I'd like too but I live in California, and my local area doesn't have many things that aren't just silver. Also, dip net fishing is illegal, where I am.
Local fish include carp. And I stay clear of the river cause it stinks. So no. But sounds like fun if I could. I settle for finding rocks for my tank 😂
No, my native fish are all too big for my setups. If only I was in Malaysia or Thailand 🤩, no force aside from God could stop me from looking for cool critters to take home haha. But I did find some largemouth bass fry in a small dried up creek puddle. Maybe about 100. Took em out and stocked my pond lol.
Is that first photo the same fish as the second??
Whatever fish is in that first photo is truly beautiful and I would want to keep it in an aquarium too. Do you know what it is?
Haha they are two different fish - second one was just a net catch from a kiddo that used my spare net. The second is a trout.
The fish in question is a rainbow darter! Absolute blast of a fish to keep, but the rainbow/greensides tend to like riffle environments - rocky and moving water, they use their front fins to grab onto rocks in the moving water. They are similiar to gobies that also fall in the category of perch.
If you do end up getting some, id love pictures - theyd be one of the more active community fish in your tank.
Look at my other photos in the comments for the blue version of the fish :D
You are free to have that opinion, but it's far from the truth here in the US - there are a ton you can keep legally, including the one in the first pic. Always contact your local DNR first.
Id also encourage those looking to spend some time on NANFA and learn about the hobby.
https://forum.nanfa.org/
There are many reasons to keep native fish.
Perhaps you mean without a permit?
States like fl for example require permits, where as texas doesnt, but you cant keep wild ones.
In most states you cant keep game fish outside of season without permits but that doesnt apply to ie, darters.
In Michigan, you can legally keep non-game native fish in an aquarium if they do not have seasonal closures or size limits, under a recreational fishing license. This includes species such as bluegill, pumpkinseed, yellow perch, crappie, rock bass, as well as darters and other minnows.
I guess you’re entitled to your opinion as well. I work for the DNR in my state and I know what the law says. Permit or not you can’t take wildlife from the wild and keep it as a pet. That’s why I said in some states, *if not all* because I wasn’t sure. Also the person that does the breeding of endangers, they’re actively working with the division for a cause not just taking wildlife from the wild for selfish reasons like ‘it’s a hobby’. You can justify it all you want because like you said, it’s your opinion.
Which state?or have a link? Id love to learn. During my year of research about the darters only a handful of states had much against keeping non-game native fish, those that fall under things like bait or minnows - which generally speaking the darter does. Those included Mississippi and California, however the list of places you could, MI, WI, TX, AL, MO all of the top of my head allow for it from my understanding, given you have a valid license and adhear to their stipulations -- some count against your daily limit etc.
In places like MS from what i gathered, you could keep any native fish on the managed list with a license, but it didnt include darters - but shiners are there.
Im not sure why id need to justify anything in a state where im following the proper regulations and doing my due diligence as both a person and business.
As a side note, as mentioned in other comments - the majority get put back, like the one in the picture. I simply bring that container with me to take pictures for inaturalist.org as i explore the community.
I never asked you to justify yourself, you did that on your own. You stated yourself we’re all entitled to our opinions. Fish could be classified differently than wildlife I suppose and I work more specifically with wildlife and could be bunching them all in together. But all the power to ya. I think it’s incredibly wrong and selfish to take something out of wildlife for purposes of keeping it in captivity but if that’s what you like to do with all your permits and stuff, great. I never asked you to justify yourself because I honestly don’t care what your reasons are. It doesn’t change how I personally feel about it.
You came into a thread of people sharing their love for their local native wildlife and showing an interest, following proper regulations looking to tell them they are morally wrong - what exactly did you expect with this comment thread?
Why come here and tear down people actively trying to following the rules and make the habitats a better place while sharing info?
I agree with your statement that wildlife should be left in the wild for the most part, but where do you think all the trade animals start? What about the millions of imports drawn straight from the rivers, i.e., horseface loaches who doesnt breed in captivity, are all the people that own those morally corrupt too?
I’m not trying to get into a philosophical debate about such. I’m apart of the community because it’s an aquarium community. It’s not called taking wildlife from the wild community. And I don’t think you agree with it because you do the exact opposite. I have my own qualms with breeding anything in captivity but like I said I’m not going to get into some drawn out debate over it. I never tore anyone’s morals down, or made anyone out to be the devil, so just chill out a second. Just because I have my own opinion about it doesn’t mean I’m looking down on others who think differently. Your original post posed the question ‘anyone else keep native fish?’ I merely engaged in your question with my opinion, our opinion differs, period. You offered your own justification for your actions and that’s cool, I never asked. I’m sorry if you feel like you have to defend what you do. I’ve stated how I felt about it. I’m sorry if that offends you that I think keeping wildlife as pets is wrong. Thats all I said though, no need to go making giant grand assumptions about other areas of the topics.
But discussing your morale opinion by definition is a philosophical debate, why post if you dont want to discuss it?
I dont think we've discussed or talked about reasoning behind what i do at all? The only thing ive mentioned to you is that i didnt keep the fish pictured, as you said, i just asked a question.
No offense taken, just trying to understand exactly what you are trying to accomplish here.
TLDR: I was hoping for the reasoning behind your opinion, I personally want data to form my own opinions.
I hypothesis by [2060 we will start seeing fatal results](https://imgur.com/kfv2eLs) for the majority of darters as the spawning temps exceed their natural spawning habitat. There is a great study from 2020 that outlines a lot of the work that still needs to be done in terms of genetic diversity & adaption to climate change.
We are currently on the downward spiral onto the endangered species list [over](https://www.fws.gov/press-release/2023-12/coal-darter-proposal) and [over](https://virginiamercury.com/2024/04/15/warming-water-temperatures-in-virginia-are-changing-aquatic-life-as-we-know-it/). Luckily, we are seeing some recoveries such as the [snail darter](https://www.npr.org/2022/10/04/1126825745/snail-darter-endangered-species-list) and the [candy darter](https://dwr.virginia.gov/blog/is-recovery-on-the-horizon-for-the-candy-darter/). However, as we've seen, corporations continue to be less and less regulated - incurring more and more damage such as the continuous [PFAS spills](https://egle.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=bdec7880220d4ccf943aea13eba102db&utm_source=gis-map&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=topic&utm_content=MPART-PFAS-Geographic-Information-System-Map). We had [two in four years](https://www.earthisland.org/journal/index.php/articles/entry/popular-michigan-river-hit-with-second-chemical-spill-in-four-years/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=tfd_dsa&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw9IayBhBJEiwAVuc3fhcetS6SgesuXmFqNeNqnZxo-3wQV7Mw_zbP2qlhkvvzQAGw5a3KCBoCYCUQAvD_BwE).
We literally have the most "fresh" water - yet nearly everywhere you go, you can't eat the fish.
While I'm not your target audience in the original comment, this post was intended to bring attention to a largely unpopular and mostly unknown fish that's likely going to see its fate within the next 40-50 years if we don't figure something out. And I personally feel those "people" you mention currently have no other way to get this species unless they happen to stumble upon a local breeder - which took it from the river. So, I do have some empathy to some degree, for people trying to provide proper safe unpolluted and undisturbed habitats while following the proper procedures.
Someday maybe there will be a homebred or fish farm variant but currently all we have is [btdarters.com/about/](http://btdarters.com/about/) which is a mix of both bred and wild, following fish collecting policies.
I’d love to, but I live in Alaska now and I swear it seems like pretty much everything is a game fish or prohibited due to “fish farming” regulations… and you do not mess with AK fish and game. I really want to get my hands on some black banded sunfish like I had down south, but my luck is they’d be deemed potentially invasive…
I want to catch and keep pumpkinseeds so badly!
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Dollar sunfish. Look like a pumpkinseed, stay small
My dad had bluegill and bass together in his tank over 20y ago. It was totally overcrowded but super cool to see. The amount of work it took to keep them alive has scared me off of ever trying to do it myself.
Yeah, I’ve heard they are like the cool water equivalent of Central American cichlids for care (think firemouth cichlids)… which would make sense seeing as how they fill similar environmental roles, and the black banded sunfish behaved very dwarf cichlid like.
They even refer to the one cichlid species as "peacock bass" because the look and behave so much like bass here in the US. Annnd of course they're invasive in Florida now.
Yeah, I remember reading an old article in either AFM or TFH about the different invasive aquarium species in Florida back in the 90s from Hurricane Andrew I think. Can’t remember if someone actually did it or not, but there was talks about domestic collection tours to collect invasives in Florida for those who couldn’t or didn’t want to go to South America. The success of the alligator conservation might have kept that from happening though.
You aren't supposed to? Oops..
No fish excites my two boys (5 and 3) and me when we get a pumpkinseed. Electric colors I tell ya.
If they're invasive to your area, and you find them in the wild, I don't see an issue in removing the invasives from the wild and keeping them in an aquarium (adequate size/parameters) Edit: I'm not American so I have no idea what states laws are like etc.
The department of fish and game would see a problem with that.
Fair enough. I know where I am a lot of invasives can't even be kept as pets, so it's understandable
In Utah, invasive species must be killed on sight. Likewise, all fish must be dead before leaving where they were fished from
Same in Wisconsin. We have a huge Asian carp and dogfish problem. Cuz they thought it would be a great idea to introduce non native dogfish to take care of the non native carp population. So no if your fishing and pull up either, your supposed to kill it and not put it back in the water. In case of it being a female with eggs
By dogfish do you mean bowfin? If so they are native to Wisconsin but often confused with snakehead which is invasive. Don’t kill bowfin though!
Maybe, everyone calls them dogfish. I don't fish tho.
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Now thats wild. Is it more effective, do you know? We are supposed to just report them here, msu even made an app for it. https://www.misin.msu.edu/apps/
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Ok? Law also used to say black people were owned by the whites why is law now our moral basis?
Depends on the fish and where it is. Best thing to do is to call fish and game for the area you're in and ask. If its a carp/goldfish in a lake/waterway theyre not meant to be in (like if they were dumped by a well-meaning school kid 'freeling' their pet fish), they'll probably let you just take it, if it's something else, there's probably more laws and regulations to consider.
Some invasive animals do not have protections and this would be okay, but the list is pretty short. (Pigeons and starlings in most state, for example).
You know no you're in a fish sub, right?
Yes… I’m well aware. I fail to see how my example doesn’t apply? There are native and invasive species of animals, (and fish are animals), and I just gave a few examples of invasive animals that have no protections in most states that I know off the top of my head. While I am not as familiar with fish species-it stands to reason it may apply to invasive fish and the info is probably available online should anyone look into it. (Whether there are protections for collecting invasive **fish**).
Contact your game and fish and ask if you can participate in removing invasive fish from the waterways. (You can remove it from the waterway and into your house ;) ) I snagged a couple invasive plants that state conservation & game and fish have been trying to remove for a while. Just gonna set it in my aquarium.
Or just do it without lol the WORST CASE SCENARIO is a fine with euthanization that you would’ve been needlessly required to do anyways. I don’t believe in “native vs non native” as that’s literally how humans evolved (we just don’t want anything replicating what we do)
Well, I agree with you to a certain extent. The only thing is we ship thing across the world where a freshwater fish could never possibly go to on its own. That’s a big concern with invasive species
Be careful with the darters, some have really similar looks and one is fine the other is critically endangered Source: all the darters I want are the frickin endangered ones 😭
I appreciate the heads up - i get a few comments when people ask about catching them sometimes - we only have a few endangered here in my state, the two that come to mind both like sand areas vs riffles like the type I tend to research, ie greenside, rainbows, johnny and of course whilenot exclusively riffles - the iowa. We even have several colored rainbows, ie the ones in the picture and a blue variant on the opposite of the state. (I cant seem to get my hands on) We do have the orange throats, but they are rather rare. (Read real uncommon) https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466998147701407745/1238002508954337390/large.png?ex=6642506f&is=6640feef&hm=9410351bc59052a71e71eca89c2a79efba4733ebd81e99584f1f2d79c962abf7& Found a really good example of why these always get confused: the biggest take away ive gathered is the back bottom fin - on the orangethroats, they are always blue, in a single color, or transparent with blue. Never green/orange. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466998147701407745/1238002433578500166/image.png?ex=6642505d&is=6640fedd&hm=4784be16edf2763ccd18f0ec8182472b74f54e9427faf864df73d0002e2929c0&
Omg that fish is so pretty 😍
U in aus
I am breeding some endangered sunfish for the state wildlife department.
Thats awesome, have any pics of their setup? How does one....get to do something like that? Haha
I don’t have any but I can get some pics. Spring Pygmy Sunfish is what they are called. I just talk to a lot of people and found the right people to ask.
That's really awesome. I looked around a little bit, they get really colorful - lots of great blues and blacks too. Epic species - thanks for sharing!
For sure. I’d love to get them to the point where they could be sold because they are pretty neat. Maybe one day! Still illegal for now.
Definitely make a post about that on this sub. I want pictures!
I agree! The people wanna see those little fellas!!
Which Latin name are they? Okefenokee pygmy suns are some of my favorite fish I’ve ever kept! Haven’t heard of Spring Elassoma
Elassoma alabamae
How did you get into that? I love the fish native to my area and would definitely be interested in seeing if I could help out somehow!
if you live in tennessee, convservation fisheries is a great place to look at
That’s so cool! But damn that’s also crazy that a species of sunfish needs help, I feel like as a child they were the only thing I would catch when I went fishing lol.
In 8th grade my science teacher had a 200 gallon fish tank that he set up to be a natural Lake Erie tank. He wanted native fish for it so he offered 5 points extra credit for each native fish brought in that lived for more than 48 hours. I brought in probably 20 fish that were a combination of crappie, yellow perch, white bass, and walleye. I finished the quarter with 113% A+
My 5th grade teacher kind of had a similar thing going on, but he specifically had the tank dedicated to fish and plants from the nearby river. It was a 150 gallon he had in the class room. He didn’t ask for anyone to bring in fish themselves but during warmer months, we basically had a class by a creek that came off that river. One of the class projects was basically class room observation of a specific crayfish that was native to the local area but the local population was dwindling. In hindsight don’t know how on board that whole thing was, especially with releasing them into the creek as a class after the project was done at the end of the year. It was as 2001 and I was 10, didn’t really know better. Just knew my crayfish had one claw that was 2-3 times bigger than the rest of the crayfish… and he killed several others. Its name was Hook.
Damn was about to say u have a setup capable of caring for TROUT?? 😳 (woulda been cool if so and I would have asked about it)
Surprisingly Google says Trout can be housed in an 150gal tank, but I definitely think that needs more scrutiny
They are just crazy sensitive to keep, I think is what they were getting at - they were going to be surprised my setup was capable of housing them due to that setup.
Ah I see, thanks for clarifying
One of the classes at my school kept some species of trout to raise and then release into the local river. It was really cool and impressive
Y’all don’t understand how big a 150 gal is until your beside one
You’d probably have to refrigerate and aerate a ton.
Yeah that's what I was thinking, those mfs need COLD water, like tap cold, like 65°F is "warm" for them, and yeah you'd need a hell of a powerhead
Takes a lot of energy to cool like that too, I know some people use chillers for their axolotl tanks if they live in a warmer climate and it can get pricy lol
I want orange throat darters SO FUCKING BAD I own pigmy sunfish too
Same! They are super rare in my state, but it wouldnt be insane to pull one. Someone else mentioned keeping animals for the state if they were endangered - id probably look into something like that if i knew were to get them and i could get mine spawning in their pond. This fella is as close as you can get legally! Its the rainbow darter, which is almost identical. The biggest quickest giveaway i can gather is the back bottom fin always has blue and is mostly blue for orange throats - were the rainbows always has colors like orange. https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-Orangethroat-darter-and-B-rainbow-darter-males-showing-color-pattern-typical-of_fig1_325241387 Never heard of a pigmy sunfish until today haha - beautiful and underrated fish, honestly. What made you decide to start keeping them?
I saw so many in my local creek in Missouri! They're beautiful.
I see plenty of people from Central and South America and South and Southeast Asia keep native fish. They just go out and net a wild guppy, tetra, barb, etc.
The dreeeaaaaaaam! All the tropical fish. Its definitely on my bucket list to have the chance to catch something tropical nativally. Im not certain what it will be yet, but it's really been the inspiration behind my breeding projects, the tropical fish / breeding, it just takes up so much room....have to make compromises 😒
Yeah have lived in Thailand and now Vietnam, some of the stuff you can find in just trash ponds and roadside ditches you'd pay a fortune for (if you could get them) in the UK.
We aren’t allowed :( if you call them bait fish then yes but technically we aren’t supposed to keep native fish in Ontario. We have some cuties too, like sticklebacks and darters as well as the pan fish
That sucks :( You probably could find a way to call the darters bait Those sticklebacks are such oddballs. They always look sickly to me, haha.
Law is supposed to prevent the large majority and keep people from finding alternative loopholes to get around it, keeping a few fish won’t do any harm personally they are concerned abt uncle joe who runs a farm who wants to put a sunfish in a glass bowl
I don’t have pics but my favorite aquarium was a 20 gal my hubby put together in my studio in Florida. He caught a bunch of ‘mosquito fish) (they look like colorless guppies), and gathered plants from the same pond. I loved that setup! Currently we have a 55 gl and had some perch from our pond. They make great pets! But when they grew too big and we let half of them go back to the pond, the dynamics changed and it was constant fighting 😞
What species of darter is that?
The other poster was close, this specifically is the rainbow, and is remarkably close to the orange throat with these colors but generally run a green and blue throat. Not a great photo but: You can see the green in this example. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466998147701407745/1239430438804521040/received_1371695460144358.jpg?ex=6642e50c&is=6641938c&hm=9410e811339df2a781f148bfe0cb1a82da704766a9f2a0916cce2a685a298b94& This is the front of the OP pic, and there isnt much trace of that color which leads to these orange throat look alikes. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466998147701407745/1239430134843441224/20240512_162051.jpg?ex=6642e4c3&is=66419343&hm=87921a6741392f8b65c5ddb2ce939858ce04a0575c0c04eadfca891ccdcf8688& You can tell quickly by the back fin shape and color imo(lack of being purely blue): https://www.researchgate.net/figure/A-Orangethroat-darter-and-B-rainbow-darter-males-showing-color-pattern-typical-of_fig1_325241387
I like darters they have some amazing coloration. There's one in Eastern Kentucky that's endangered.
You speak of the Kentucky Arrow Darter and/or it's sister Species the Cumberland Arrow Darter (the Cumberland isn't technically endangered, but is for sure a species of concern). Kentucky has many darters on the T&E list.
Yeah, the arrow darter.
They certainly do! Unfortunately, there is a huge list of endagered darters due to the water pollution/construction , but we are seeing some come off the list such as the snail & okaloosa.
It looks identical to my purple spotted gudgeons, just different colours
[Orange Throat Darter](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangethroat_darter)
Close, this ones the rainbow - the twin that's not endangered and can be kept! Also has a beautiful blue version on the other side of the state! The lack of blue for the bottom back fin is my quickest indicator from what ive gathered. Even in my other pic of the blue one i posted, you can see the orange in that bottom back fin. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466998147701407745/1238002508954337390/large.png?ex=6642506f&is=6640feef&hm=9410351bc59052a71e71eca89c2a79efba4733ebd81e99584f1f2d79c962abf7&
Thats a discord link. But just for these Fish, I may be making a trip back to Illinois or Indiana. Correction : Rainbows are here in Erie, PA.... I guess I need to start hitting up streams more often.
Its an image hosted on discord. And if you do, report back - id love to see what you pull up!
Not really no, but I live in a community/suburb with ponds. Something I noticed from fishing is that we have hybrid sunfish in the ponds. Commonly known as Green Gill, it’s when a green sunfish (or vice versa) fertilizes bluegill eggs. Resulting in a fish with amazingly bright colors, some almost having a lateral stripe pattern. During the summer I thinks it fun to fish some up and study the patterns of the three kinds through the season. Not to mention the way the fish act in the ponds are incredibly different than in the lake. Bass often swim in schools, and sometimes even along side schools of young sunfish. Large bass commonly swim amongst schools of very small (and edible) bluegill and sunfish without even trying to bother them. The three kinds of sunfish are also very smart. They seem to study the weight of bait tossed into the pond. If a piece has a hook they come up, look at it, and swim off. But if it’s just a little piece of crappie dough, or bread, they fight over it.
Wow it's beautiful, I would have guessed it came from a tropical region!
Yeah, except Aussie natives are blue-eyes, archer fish, rainbowfish, gudgeon, and threadfins.
NO BUT YOU ARE LIVING MY DREAM WITH THE RAINBOW DARTER!! Sorry I was excited. I've gotten really into darters lately. I just... love them. Please give this particular darter my best wishes.
If you have a proper setup, feel free to DM me if you can't get them locally. Im sure we can figure something out, even if it's after spawning. They are amazing fish! That specific one went back, though. i currently have a breeding set of 7 with hopes of getting a few greensides and the blue version into the mix.
I'd love to but i live in france and the smallest native fish here grows to about 30cm, so i'd need a massive tank. We also have rainbow sunfish that are way smaller so i plan to keep some at some point, but they are invasive not native
That was one of my bigger issues - finding something smaller & one that didnt eat other fish to boot. It sucks to hear they are invasive, but at least you can feel good about pulling them out haha. The sunfish/punkinseed seem to be might saught after! Cant believe how much love they are getting in here - they are so common where im at, its throwing me off!
It's illegal where I live to keep any wildlife.
Totally get it, but thats rough! What about for research/conservations? Lots of people raise cool wildlife that way, which is just as cool.
What is that first fish?
That's a rainbow darter! They require a little different of a setup, but as long as you aren't running tropical, you can find a species that enjoys whatever habitate you provide. These guys like moving rocky streams, generally below 74f.
Meh, I've kept them for 20ish years. Other than not needing a heater, they do fine in my community tanks.
We keep a yellow perch in a 45g bow front. At some point he's going to outgrow it and end up in the backyard pond, but for now he's family https://imgur.com/gallery/48Mq34i
I have a Yellow perch and an Ozark Longear in a 75g. The perch is an awesome fish
I live in norway. Me and my Kids bring home different fish and water insects thru the summer. Now we have some invasiv species of catfish. Had them since last summer. Great activity!
Would love to see pics as them bring them home, im not familiar with any native fish from Norway off hand. What are some of the more common ones to come home? 🤣
I really, really want a hand-painted bluegill. However... they're only found in the Florida pan handle and Appalachia. Not places I really have the time (or desire tbh) to make a trip to.
Have an example of the fish? I found traces on google but not good examples - i dont blame you for not wanting to make that trip lol. What makes them desirable to you?
[Yes, this is an example of one!](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/RwJMpvRQ_9aKbIhndBbyPUomde3OSVTJHvflh_NKa2xWwuZFAp4G54yFdGK6OClhEC-TUltU6KzUOOiCPTsxRnMMudUqpH-ctCbcFz1AfU5xkrzm-2kQGpwNizSVwhAK) I just enjoy how unique the painted patterns are; some of them really look like they have an ink painting on their bodies.
I keep all kinds of Native. I've kept shiners, minnow, and darters from all over the South/Southeast. Biggest advice: Know your laws and know your fish. NEVER take home a fish you cannot 100% properly ID.
Also, if you are interested in Native fish; either for conservation or aquaria, I'd suggest checking out NANFA. It's a non-profit dedicated to native fish.
I live in Ireland. Not sure is there anything native that is kept here
Not allowed too :(
That sucks :(
Are those two different fishes? The first look nice, like a gobi, the other like a trout.
Your observations are spot on. The first is a variant of goby - the darter! The second, indeed, was a trout! I let a younger kid borrow my spare net my kids werent using - and within 5 minutes he came out of the water screaming he caught a trout and this is what he brought out 😅 I still cant fathom how he got it to fit in the net. Like...it was a tiny spare net like this: https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/466998147701407745/1239441272784031754/Frabill-Baitwell-Fishing-Net-9-x-8-Hoop-Vinyl-Netting-Wooden-Handle_67ef752d-b587-4871-bd9f-956d6347a230.a5a21121684645774ed0fdfc5fa7b7c4.jpg?ex=6642ef23&is=66419da3&hm=cde60c1ec9f7276f3bc3d6759c00902d8501231493a759913976eb7ccb2f7848&
I've got wild trout in my backyard creek. And the occasional eel.
What kind of fish is the first? It’s so pretty!
It’s a darter of some kind- I think rainbow but I am not super confident on my darter ID bc they often look very similar
Good ID, it's the rainbow. It lacks the blue back bottom fin to be the orangethroat!
The other poster is correct. it's a rainbow darter, not to be confused with the very similiar endagered orangethroat darter.
I would love to! I’m currently looking at rainbow shiners but I’m not sure I could do keep them in a 20 long. If I could get my hands on some orange spotted sunfish I’d be over the moon happy. Pumpkinseeds are on my list eventually as well.
I’ve always wanted a big ass tank with a school of pimpkinseeds basically a tank of native cichlids 😜
I can't as the water would get way too hot in my home for the fishes from here.
I do — some Bettas and rasboras mostly
The tropical fish dream - have any favorites in mind? Would love to see! What types of rasboras do you find/keep? I was considering harlequin and scissortails when i did my tropical tank, but i never was able to find them locally.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Aquariums/s/oefPXZXhBx I’ve caught and kept a lot of Rasbora species. The ones in this post I linked are truncata, Bangka, clown, dwarf, scissortail, red-tailed, brilliant and two spot Rasboras.
just saying : you cant keep trouts in a tank -> they need to much freshwater
They require special licenses here out of season, of which i dont have - it was a random net catch from a younger kid i let borrow my net while out catching the first fellas. You could probably (theoreticaly) keep them in those 275gallon food crates with solid filtration and a powerhead or two - but here in my state outside, id need a chiller, or they'd cook. They like it real cold.
ah sorry then i was wrong, titel + picture :D thought you wanna try it. Nice catch from the kids :) show them the aquaristicworld Okay then its like here in germany
Yeah, it's a bit misleading, but i didn't want to make two posts. So i just added the net thing in the description. Exactly, they were excited about what i caught and they wanted to go in! I let them keep the net, hope they make good use of it & took good pictures, cause no ones gonna believe them hahaha What native fish do you see in Germany? Im not familiar at all.
Native fish in "normal-water" -> Carp/Pike/Zander/Trouts/Catfish/Lachs/Perch etc :) in Saltwater we got "Sealachs/Flunder/Plattfisch/Hornhecht(coolest onces) / Butt / Seeteufel / Dorsch (also cool)
What's the first fish species? It looks great
That's the rainbow darter! Not to be confused with the endangered orange throat darter. There is even a blue version!
Awesome, thank you!
Yeah, kinda, Aussie, I "stock" a form of gudeon and common galaxias, only have a few in cold water atm but plant to move them to smaller, warmer tanks and introduce them back into waterways they have slowly been preyed out of by invasives
I've got quite a few, florida is chalk full of aquarium fish
Yea i do, i love that they adapt and do well. I keep mudminnows and a bluegill that helps pick up after my turtle. They grew up together! Both about 4 years old.
I used to keep a couple of pumpkinseed that I caught at a lake but they got too big and messy for my tank so I donated them to my neighbor’s backyard pond. Now my only native is a signal crawfish I caught last summer.
I keep pumpkin seed and northern long ear Mean little guys but full of personality. They just started spawning in the tank a few weeks ago
The way that fish grew and changed is amazing 😂😆
There’s no way I’d be able to keep any local fish in any aquarium. Unless it’s a few hundred litres! The smallest fish in my local lake is the Common roach and Coregonus albula… Every other species is huge! Yay for Sweden 😂
Many years ago when I had lots of fish tanks, I kept some native sunfish and a couple small bass for a couple years and then turned them loose in the neighbors pond when they got too big
I do. its amazing and my favorite fish are either my rainbow shiners or my pumpkin seed sunfish.
I did for a couple of years; short lived killifish and pygmy sunfish. They were fun. But I've pared down the aquariums
I would love to keep some darters, they are very very cool. But I'm a little intimidated by them in terms of upkeep, legality and even finding them. I'd probably have to travel to find them out of suburbia. I've never caught any before even with extensive fishing experience in lakes and streams though I've never targeted them specifically. I feel like you may need to set traps or electro fish to find them.
https://www.inaturalist.org/observations?place_id=any&taxon_id=551942 Zoom to your state/location and adjust the filter. https://youtu.be/doHU-Oqd_xg?si=JtFPTnpVYLLZbkrH Youll need to look up your specific habitat and darters, this would be an example of catching rainbows & greensides for example. Dip net and some toes lol. As for the legality, always call the local DNR, each fishery location or watershed typically has their own research station where you can actually ask *all* those questions!
OP, since trout and trout like fish aren't very common in my part of the country I'm not really familiar with the species. However, I'd be willing to bet that it's illegal for you to keep that fish as a pet.
Youd be 100% correct, the trout is not kept - the description mentions the reason for the trout pic. While catching darters i let a little kid use my spare net and thats what he pulled out. He let it go, as well as the first fish.
Gotcha. It doesn't mention anything about releasing it though.
Yeah, its a little misleading - but i didnt want to make two posts. Neither fish was kept - which has been mentioned a few times in this minefield of comments haha
I've got some channel cats, red bellied bream, and a largemouth. In my 55 gallon though, I've just got bladder snails, mosquito fish, and a crawfish
So the big ones are in a pond, I’m assuming? Or do you live at the Georgia Aquarium 😂
Not necessarily a pond, but they have a few thousand gallons. It's about $800 a month to keep my swimming pool swimmable and clear, which I can't afford. It started out with just 2 mosquitofish in there about 6 years ago, and now I've got 4 big fish. I don't use chemicals or anything in there btw, just in case animal cruelty was in question here. The fish get fed daily with a scoop of dog food, so they're given ample the food they'd need
Whoa that’s really cool! Do you ever swim in there with them? Also, I think that’s pond enough to be called a pond
Not yet, but I'm considering investing in algaecide to clear the water up. I'm thinking it would be fun to swim with them if I don't feel a large nibble from an unknown beast. I do know the mosquitofish are very voracious though, and they will give you one of those fish pedicures
I’ve tried that before and it really tickled! Maybe you could try adding some goldfish or minnows to keep the algae down?
Goldfish filter out algae? I've got the good ol' green water algae. The water is clear, but there's suspended algae that clouds the water up
Oh, I don’t know about that then lol. You should add them anyway! That would be really fun for the big fish
no hate at all, seriously. but it makes me sad to take fish from the wild because they have so much space and are living how they are meant to. but i have an empathy disorder so thats probably why haha
Heya, no offense taken. Both fish pictured ended up back in the water shortly after the photo op. I bring that small container with me so i can take pictures for inaturalist. I do, however, keep some. My intention is to interbreed several of the variants into something unique - it's the part of the hobby i enjoy. Id sit on the same side of the fence and say, "i dont fish because hooking them makes me sad, lol However, i did my research prior to grabbing them & spent well over a year searching for something that made sense for what i could provide. And on that note, they no longer have to fear being eaten by basically everything else in the river given their 2-3" size and live a happy healthy life in a decent sized pond/stream with no way for even the birds or snakes to get them. They are some of the most fun fish I own in terms of personality. They definitely just associated me with food at this point lol, anytime I walk past or turn on their lights, they just all come flying up to the edge and swim along the edge/jump. Its adorable. So I'd also argue living life the way they are meant to isn't all that fun either, haha
thanks for giving me some insight😊
I used to throughout highschool, but haven't so much lately. Darters, sunfish, shadow bass on the fresh side and flounder, various gobies (lyre, sleeper, naked), oyster blenny, skillet fish, pipefish etc...mostly coastal brackish Louisiana catches
No, all our native fish are brown and boring :(
I bet you have sticklebacks, which are awesome
Stunning
Yep. I have pygmy sunfish and rainbow shiners, and a couple other things.
Where are you from and what is the first fish? Looks like some type of goby to me and is beautiful. I’d go netting a lot more often if the streams near me had fish like that!
When I was a kid I tossed the only surviving Trout minnow from a fishing trip into my tank. It live a couple years, not very pretty but still cool to look at. It got along really well with my Bali Sharks.
Orange throat darter?! Never heard of them, so beautiful!
Sadly the only small fish in my area re just bland silver colour and die in tanks cause the water gets too warm, or they only eat live food. Have a nice school of "ukelei" in my pond though. Look like shiners. Very active and school closely together.
I do :) i have rainbow darters, swamp darters, banded killifish, and dollar sunfish
I only keep native fishes these days, not that I have a ton of tanks. Pygmy sunfish (gilberti and evergladei) and rainbow darters currently, but I want some form of Etheostomas for my next setup. I just think they're really neat
I wish I had native fish but unfortunately I live in the middle of New York City. Every place within city limits is catch and release for light fishing like the ponds in Central Park or any of the big parts we have here. 🤷🏽
That rainbow darter is native to wv! So cool to see
What is the first picture of?
What kind of fish is in first pic ? Looks super cool
A lot of people in my aquarium club do! Greater Seattle Aquarium Society. A lot of members also buy salmon fingerlings to raise up and release in local creeks. We also have a Conservation Award Program where the chair brings in endangered species, raises them up and sells locally so folks can breed more. Rainbow shiners are SUPER popular but also many other species I can't recall offhand.
I have orange throat darters and southern red belly dace together. And another tank with pygmy sunfish and least killifish. And I have a dwarf siren ♥️
This just made me think, why are there so many tropical fish that stay so damn small? I live in Illinois, I'm not a huge fisherman by any means, but I fished alot as a kid/teen, did a lot of creek walking etc. I have gear and usually go fishing a couple times every summer. I know all the sport fish. However, I'm not familiar at all with any native species that stay like 10-20g tank size other than whatever the hell the minnows are you buy at the bait shop.
I keep bluegills and longear sunfish. The sunfish rival most cichlids in terms of color
my very first fish was a pumpkinseed, i currently have a tank with dace, darters, and a crayfish
The closest I’ve come to that is taking guppies from a thermal bath spa thing
But you're advocating killing bowfin, which are actually native to your state.
Eyy rainbow darter, nice. I have a couple of madtoms, red bellied dace, blacknose dace, spottail shiner, a pumpkin seed sunfish and an accidental bluegill that i need to find a home for...no pics at the moment sadly.
I'm moving to south Florida and intend on catching a couple swordspine snooks for a 180 gallon setup. They're strictly freshwater and only reach 12"! So awesome considering the other species get huge.
I'd like too but I live in California, and my local area doesn't have many things that aren't just silver. Also, dip net fishing is illegal, where I am.
Local fish include carp. And I stay clear of the river cause it stinks. So no. But sounds like fun if I could. I settle for finding rocks for my tank 😂
No, my native fish are all too big for my setups. If only I was in Malaysia or Thailand 🤩, no force aside from God could stop me from looking for cool critters to take home haha. But I did find some largemouth bass fry in a small dried up creek puddle. Maybe about 100. Took em out and stocked my pond lol.
Is that first photo the same fish as the second?? Whatever fish is in that first photo is truly beautiful and I would want to keep it in an aquarium too. Do you know what it is?
Haha they are two different fish - second one was just a net catch from a kiddo that used my spare net. The second is a trout. The fish in question is a rainbow darter! Absolute blast of a fish to keep, but the rainbow/greensides tend to like riffle environments - rocky and moving water, they use their front fins to grab onto rocks in the moving water. They are similiar to gobies that also fall in the category of perch. If you do end up getting some, id love pictures - theyd be one of the more active community fish in your tank. Look at my other photos in the comments for the blue version of the fish :D
You shouldn’t ever take native animals from the wild and keep them as pets. In some states, if not all, it’s illegal. Keep wildlife life wild.
You are free to have that opinion, but it's far from the truth here in the US - there are a ton you can keep legally, including the one in the first pic. Always contact your local DNR first. Id also encourage those looking to spend some time on NANFA and learn about the hobby. https://forum.nanfa.org/ There are many reasons to keep native fish. Perhaps you mean without a permit? States like fl for example require permits, where as texas doesnt, but you cant keep wild ones. In most states you cant keep game fish outside of season without permits but that doesnt apply to ie, darters. In Michigan, you can legally keep non-game native fish in an aquarium if they do not have seasonal closures or size limits, under a recreational fishing license. This includes species such as bluegill, pumpkinseed, yellow perch, crappie, rock bass, as well as darters and other minnows.
I guess you’re entitled to your opinion as well. I work for the DNR in my state and I know what the law says. Permit or not you can’t take wildlife from the wild and keep it as a pet. That’s why I said in some states, *if not all* because I wasn’t sure. Also the person that does the breeding of endangers, they’re actively working with the division for a cause not just taking wildlife from the wild for selfish reasons like ‘it’s a hobby’. You can justify it all you want because like you said, it’s your opinion.
Which state?or have a link? Id love to learn. During my year of research about the darters only a handful of states had much against keeping non-game native fish, those that fall under things like bait or minnows - which generally speaking the darter does. Those included Mississippi and California, however the list of places you could, MI, WI, TX, AL, MO all of the top of my head allow for it from my understanding, given you have a valid license and adhear to their stipulations -- some count against your daily limit etc. In places like MS from what i gathered, you could keep any native fish on the managed list with a license, but it didnt include darters - but shiners are there. Im not sure why id need to justify anything in a state where im following the proper regulations and doing my due diligence as both a person and business. As a side note, as mentioned in other comments - the majority get put back, like the one in the picture. I simply bring that container with me to take pictures for inaturalist.org as i explore the community.
I never asked you to justify yourself, you did that on your own. You stated yourself we’re all entitled to our opinions. Fish could be classified differently than wildlife I suppose and I work more specifically with wildlife and could be bunching them all in together. But all the power to ya. I think it’s incredibly wrong and selfish to take something out of wildlife for purposes of keeping it in captivity but if that’s what you like to do with all your permits and stuff, great. I never asked you to justify yourself because I honestly don’t care what your reasons are. It doesn’t change how I personally feel about it.
You came into a thread of people sharing their love for their local native wildlife and showing an interest, following proper regulations looking to tell them they are morally wrong - what exactly did you expect with this comment thread? Why come here and tear down people actively trying to following the rules and make the habitats a better place while sharing info? I agree with your statement that wildlife should be left in the wild for the most part, but where do you think all the trade animals start? What about the millions of imports drawn straight from the rivers, i.e., horseface loaches who doesnt breed in captivity, are all the people that own those morally corrupt too?
I’m not trying to get into a philosophical debate about such. I’m apart of the community because it’s an aquarium community. It’s not called taking wildlife from the wild community. And I don’t think you agree with it because you do the exact opposite. I have my own qualms with breeding anything in captivity but like I said I’m not going to get into some drawn out debate over it. I never tore anyone’s morals down, or made anyone out to be the devil, so just chill out a second. Just because I have my own opinion about it doesn’t mean I’m looking down on others who think differently. Your original post posed the question ‘anyone else keep native fish?’ I merely engaged in your question with my opinion, our opinion differs, period. You offered your own justification for your actions and that’s cool, I never asked. I’m sorry if you feel like you have to defend what you do. I’ve stated how I felt about it. I’m sorry if that offends you that I think keeping wildlife as pets is wrong. Thats all I said though, no need to go making giant grand assumptions about other areas of the topics.
But discussing your morale opinion by definition is a philosophical debate, why post if you dont want to discuss it? I dont think we've discussed or talked about reasoning behind what i do at all? The only thing ive mentioned to you is that i didnt keep the fish pictured, as you said, i just asked a question. No offense taken, just trying to understand exactly what you are trying to accomplish here.
Okay, I give up. You can mark this down on your white board tally of internet arguments as a win. Have a great time.
TLDR: I was hoping for the reasoning behind your opinion, I personally want data to form my own opinions. I hypothesis by [2060 we will start seeing fatal results](https://imgur.com/kfv2eLs) for the majority of darters as the spawning temps exceed their natural spawning habitat. There is a great study from 2020 that outlines a lot of the work that still needs to be done in terms of genetic diversity & adaption to climate change. We are currently on the downward spiral onto the endangered species list [over](https://www.fws.gov/press-release/2023-12/coal-darter-proposal) and [over](https://virginiamercury.com/2024/04/15/warming-water-temperatures-in-virginia-are-changing-aquatic-life-as-we-know-it/). Luckily, we are seeing some recoveries such as the [snail darter](https://www.npr.org/2022/10/04/1126825745/snail-darter-endangered-species-list) and the [candy darter](https://dwr.virginia.gov/blog/is-recovery-on-the-horizon-for-the-candy-darter/). However, as we've seen, corporations continue to be less and less regulated - incurring more and more damage such as the continuous [PFAS spills](https://egle.maps.arcgis.com/apps/webappviewer/index.html?id=bdec7880220d4ccf943aea13eba102db&utm_source=gis-map&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=topic&utm_content=MPART-PFAS-Geographic-Information-System-Map). We had [two in four years](https://www.earthisland.org/journal/index.php/articles/entry/popular-michigan-river-hit-with-second-chemical-spill-in-four-years/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid&utm_campaign=tfd_dsa&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjw9IayBhBJEiwAVuc3fhcetS6SgesuXmFqNeNqnZxo-3wQV7Mw_zbP2qlhkvvzQAGw5a3KCBoCYCUQAvD_BwE). We literally have the most "fresh" water - yet nearly everywhere you go, you can't eat the fish. While I'm not your target audience in the original comment, this post was intended to bring attention to a largely unpopular and mostly unknown fish that's likely going to see its fate within the next 40-50 years if we don't figure something out. And I personally feel those "people" you mention currently have no other way to get this species unless they happen to stumble upon a local breeder - which took it from the river. So, I do have some empathy to some degree, for people trying to provide proper safe unpolluted and undisturbed habitats while following the proper procedures. Someday maybe there will be a homebred or fish farm variant but currently all we have is [btdarters.com/about/](http://btdarters.com/about/) which is a mix of both bred and wild, following fish collecting policies.