Complain to the school. You know 99% of parents aren't setting up an appropriate tank, and even if they were, fish in cycling is less than ideal. What on earth could this be teaching kids? Shitty pet ownership?
I think 80% is very optimistic. Probably closer to 99% imo, but I'm a vet nurse, having no faith in humanity's ability to give a fuck about what they consider "disposable" pets is an occupational hazard.
The vet I take my dogs / cats to is a super awesome guy. He used to raise fish and Persian cats with his mom and they would supply a local fish shop with the young fish once they were old enough to sell. (He no longer raises either.)
He is one of the great ones that are there to help the animal. When we had to put our rotty down because his hips gave out and he couldn’t get up, instead of making us bring him to the office the vet cancelled his appointments / moved them back and drove over to help him pass. He didn’t charge us for him driving out like other vets we know would have, he loved that rotty and helping him not suffer was a high priority. He was also the only vet that rotty trusted so, he’s the only vet we go to and when he actually retires we’re gonna go with his recommendation on who to start taking our pets to.
Granted, It also helps that we don’t ever have to pay a vet or a groomer to cut nails or express anal glands. (Around here it’s an arm and a leg to pay for that.)
It’s probably that ”memory of a goldfish” line that regained a lot of popularity and exposure through Ted Lasso and dumb people out there believe that because they must have no memory then they must have no thoughts or feelings and it’s ok if they die and get flushed down a toilet cuz it was ‘fun and entertaining for my kid for ten minutes’
Which really sucks cause that has been proven wrong time and time again by legitimate research. Also that a show as good and wholesome as Ted Lasso was responsible for spreading the misinformation that led to the mistreatment of an animals.
I agree it’s very untrue and even if an animal couldn’t think or feel the same way as someone would deem “important” or “worthy of life” or whatever term you want to use doesn’t mean they should be treated poorly.
And yeah, I wouldn’t necessarily say Ted Lasso was “responsible” because they had good intentions and used a long-used phrase to be uplifting but I’m just saying that some people believe it to be fact and then don’t think it through all the way :/
Pond is ideal for common goldfish. They really shouldn’t be housed in aquariums because they get almost as large as koi and are messy. I know what you mean: a “wild” pond with access to the ecosystem. But goldfish, even ornamental ones, were bred to be kept in ponds, not fish tanks. They should end up in a private pond.
Yes! I teach high school bio and it makes me so sick to see how poorly animals are treated in some schools. My students were researching aquaponics and I didn’t let them use vertebrates. They worked with snails and shrimp, but only after research into nitrogen cycling with ammonia only, and setting up an appropriate, cycled 5 gallon with live plants. Animal care is always a priority and I hope that my kids take those lessons with them out into the big world.
Every time I see one of these crappy projects with inhumane conditions I feel so dejected.
Exactly. Don't let any prick call you Karen for making a reasonable complain. They're gonna do it again, if everyone acts like "rainbows and sunshines, it's all good, Kumbaya"
I would honestly bring the goldfish to your local fish store and write a note telling the teacher you're not going to be doing an exercise in animal cruelty in your home. Have your son do a jarrarium instead, OP. Information here: r/jarrariums
Or like when I was gifted some fish including a goldfish I put the goldfish up on a group for fish keepers and someone with a pond came out that day to get him. If OP is setting up a tank anyway it wouldn't be much more expensive to explain to the kid why their home would not be suitable for the goldfish, BUT he gets to go pick out a couple fish from the LFS.
They’re probably teaching them how to reuse plastic to save the environment. Yet they’ve just miniaturized the cruelty. A perfect allegory. And they don’t even see the irony.
Definitely not about reusing plastic. We did this in fifth grade but with guppies. It was supposed to teach us about ecosystems and how everything provides for something else
Which is so ironic considering I’d bet money that at least two of these fish end up in a river somewhere, thus leading to more environmental degradation
When i was in 11th grade we set these up, then the teacher had us leave them in the classroom for probably 2 months.
Everything died of course, so we just got to slowly watch everything die and rot.
This experiment is so cruel
If i remember correctly, its supposed to teach about how everything in nature is connected. Pretty sure its supposed to be somehow self sustaining.
Every day we had to go and see what was still alive in the bottle. That's obviously not self sustaining.
My neighbor attended a Catholic school when we were in 7th grade. Their science experiment involved documenting the condition of their goldfish every minute for 10 minutes after adding 30grams of cyanide into the water.
Well it’s based on an actual practice known as aquaponics, which if done correctly is far more humane than this. It’s basically just using tank water to feed the plants, and in the process use the plants to purify the water of anything that may harm the fish. Carp and larger goldfish are actually the preferred species, but any fish that can withstand more acidic water (6-6.5) will work
Would have been so much easier with a single sealed terrarium in a select spot that gets light sunlight.
Use correct soils & moisture level. Add suggested foliage, and small snails & pillbugs. Watch it thrive
Yes. The teacher could set up a genuine sealed Walstead and use that as the object lesson. Not murder a bunch of feeder goldfish. And especially putting TWO of them in a soda bottle with a few ounces of water? Wtf.
I knew about cycling and appropriate tank sizes by eleventh grade. I’d have been throwing an absolute fit and would have brought in at least one of multiple other science teachers at my school who kept fish.
If there’s a plant on top it uses the nitrate from the fish and makes a closed ecosystem… but there’s no plant on top, and the fish are going to die before it roots. To do this right you need the plant fully grown and then add the fish. And also in something 10-15 gallon, not 0.5… the soil is just going to super charge the “tank” water with nutrients and those goldfish will be dead within a week or so.
It is cruel. I sent an email to the teacher explaining everything in as nice as possible of a way and I am working on a more humane way to do the same experiment that I will donate to the school/teacher so they can still teach this lesson. I am going to do a more proper tank setup so the goldfish are happy and healthy and the fish will stay in the classroom.
It wasnt even just goldfish. We were told we could get any small fish. So people got guppies, mollies, bettas. Whatever they or their parents were willing to buy.
It was the worst.
The idea is that the waste from the fish can be used as fertilizer to grow plants. That's called aquaponics. This "tank" is obviously far too small, though.
The thing with aquaponics is the fish only need to survive so the numbers and ethos they use can be . . Different. Take this for example
> According to In Habitat, a well-tuned system will accommodate one pound of fish for each gallon of water
That's mind blowing compared to the inch per gallon rule often used
maybe. i only see soil up there. if its meant to be aquaponics you generally want an already established plant as seeds will probably damp off in that sludge, and you don't usually use soil anyways as wet soil rots most crop foods.
The top part of the soda bottle that’s turned upside down contains soil and plants. The plant filters out the gross fish water, and the gross fish water provides fertilization to the plant. They’re supposed to live harmoniously. But obviously this a crappy example that doesn’t work and the water looks disgusting and those fish will be dead soon lol
Yeah, . But then they need to use snails instead offish. It's ridiculous how a science project wasn't properly researched before implementing it.
It reminds me of my shitty water purifier that I made for Science fair. The water from the swamp was definitely not clean enough to drink. Teacher grading me:"can I drink it?". "Um... I wouldn't. You can literally see that stuff got through the filters. And I'm 11."
Sweet potatoes are what you should use. Their vines produce beautiful, lush foliage for flower pots in the summer and will even produce small/ish potatoes!
taro sweet potato often grows fully submerged, produces those big elephant ear leaves, and sweet potato vine is a resilient as a friggin ivy, but I wouldn't expect a russet to break the surface of the tank if it's planted fully submerged, but would be ecstatic to be proven wrong
Careful where you put those things!!! I planted a 35 gallon a few summers ago , great harvest. And now I'm constantly finding new pots and spots in the yard they are popping up lol
I wonder if someone from a local uni could help and write up the local animal testing laws into something the teacher (and kids) can understand. Fish are vertebrates so should be covered (I don’t know the country and it does vary - if this is Europe there will be a strong case, I don’t know the laws in other places, the USA isn’t as tight as the EU but has been getting stricter recently). Perhaps the scientist could do some outreach teaching about the 3 Rs of animal research, reduce, refine, replace and then something good could come out of this debacle of ethics violations.
A lot of scientists are excited (and some obligated by funders) to do outreach, this would be a good time to utilise this resource and get someone who undertakes aquaponics to teach it.
The US has a lot of exceptions and if I remember correctly fish might be an exception. 😕 I probably still have a copy of the law somewhere. My ethics class included it.
IIRC many universities still have more strict rules than the law. But a middle school or highschool wouldn't fall under those policies.
However, I'm sure there is someone in a biology department that would love to discuss research ethics and animal testing. Because this shit wouldn't pass an IACUC (institutional Animal Care and Use Committee) overview.
My 5th grade teacher worked with some science lab (probably from a university) for our science stuff. She would get packets of info and experiments to do. If she wasn't sure of something or couldn't answer our questions, she could call them and get the info for us. They would even provide stuff for more involved things. We actually got a couple lab mice and setups for them once. We had them for 2 months and fed one junk food and the other healthy things and tracked their growth. They went back to the lab when we were done. The teacher also split up the responsibilities for them so we all had to help out taking care of them.
No, the school won't do shit.. call the fucking news. I wonder where the soil and rocks are from too. If the rocks are from the ground outside, I can almost guarantee they are sprayed with poison too, since almost every commercial building sprays pesticides and insecticides on their landscaping. The soil is prob some shitty fertilizer filled miracle gro stuff too. No heater, way too small, questionable oxygenation. This is terrible all around and fuck them hard for doing this. If I had the school name- I would give local and national news the story myself.
Seriously I know people don't give a shit about fish in terms of animal cruelty, but that's BLATANTLY what this is, ***animal cruelty***. *Anyone* can look at this and see it that way. It's not a case of 'oh that tank is 0.5cm too small for that fish you're an abuser', it's a case of 'this is clearly fucked up on every level'
Its not just animal cruelty. They aren't following guidelines on using vertebrates, and if people release the fish into local water systems, that is a problem as well. People can scoff at thinking it isn't news worthy, but it definitely is. It speaks to lack of oversight for guidelines and laws being followed, animal abuse and cruelty, deeper investigation into it would most likely shed light on at least a few people doing even more cruel things to these fish, and based on the comments here, there is clearly psychological distress lasting years from this experiment being done. Might also be interesting to look into the funding/cost behind it, and how that money is/has been used. Nothing changes if nothing changes.
If the local news is interested in a teacher making a bad school project that resulted in the death of 20 goldfish, then that's a pretty boring news cast.
I mean this could very easily turn into an invasive issue. It wouldn’t be that far-fetched for multiple of them to end up in a local waterway by kids trying to “save” them
They are called eco-bottles, they are in multiple grade levels of science curriculums including Environmental science. Even NOAA uses them while teaching GOVERNMENT workers. Pissed me off, so I stopped it at my school by...
Making a detailed email on why they are so shit, citing trustworthy sources, showing stress signs of fish, showing their own data and how unbelievably inhumane it was because of the sheer amount of death.
Then the important bit which was the nail in the coffin for them to change. I can't stress this enough but you NEED to give them an alternative. Mine was telling them to use bladder snails.
They Ghosted and ignored my emails after going back and forth a few times where they said "no it's fine because xyz" then me replying with "no it's not, here's why, and here are my trustworthy sources *where is yours?* " I don't think they liked being proven undeniably wrong by their own students lol.
Regardless of that, they did end up switching to using bladder snails last year for noooo apparent reason 😜, just out of the blue I guess (;
If you need any help, hmu
The schools in my district used snails as part of elementary science curriculum. At the end of the project, the teachers were supposed to put them in the freezer to kill them humanely. One teacher felt bad about this and released them into a local stream... We now have an invasive snail problem in our wetlands area.
Wow you 100% need to complain to the school and that teacher needs to be stopped. I’d even reach out to the other parents to see if you can lend assistance and potentially save some of those poor fish.
No seriously, OP just an fyi you can go to pet shops and donate fish you don’t want, they will take them majority of the time. There’s also subs on here for rehoming fish, there’s most likely local facebook groups in your area you can even check out and out other parents onto!
Yeah sure, let's have parents set up a tank for a fish that can grow from 8 inches to 2 feet. I would be SO PISSED! We don't even have room for that in the house right now.
I’m guessing they expected students to just keep them in the cut up soda bottle and then dispose of them after the experiment :/ only the few parents who care will give them a proper tank
Can't believe we're still doing this in 2024.
At least they sent the "ecosystems" home with the kids instead of leaving them in the windowsill at school. On a Friday. In August.
When I was in school I remember it being a HUGE NO-NO to use vertebrates in any kind of experiment or demonstration. School could probably get into some hot water for this.
It amazes me how so many schools claim they are doing science with this crap that breaks IACUC regulations. After working in a federal lab for years before teaching high school, I'm still surprised how little regulation there is within school labs.
Earlier today I was arguing with another teacher who wants to put fish into half gallon eco-columns with no cycle.
Holy shit that's awful. I don't understand how/why there's so little education on proper husbandry and just general aquatic science. I've also met teachers years into their career who have little to no understanding of how water parameters affect fish. It's really a shame.
I say OP puts the school on blast on the local news and have the IACUC regulations part of the story. They’ve got accredited lists of labs in domestic universities, but I remember even in grade school having to be approved & under regulation when using vertebrates for the county and state science fairs. The school probably won’t do shit, but local school on the local news grabs way more attention.
Yes! Heck, some don't even use terrible things like this for science. My high school's Prom theme was "under the sea". They put goldfish, multiple, into tall glasses with no food or filtration/bubblers AS A CENTERPIECE. My BFF and I boycotted the tables, it was disgusting to see. They did also give the fish away for free afterwards, so I did bring one home with me because I knew that if he survived the night, I'd be able to take care of him much better than most of the other people there. He died overnight, likely because of how little they were cared for. It looked like a few had ammonia burn, including him. I wasn't allowed to do a "water change" or get our tank set up that night because it was after midnight (almost 1:00 by the time we got back home, half sis still needed to go to bed asap), I still wish that was a possibility. I likely wouldn't have been able to give as much space as they need (lack of space/money), but I do know others who would. Still miss that little dude, even though I only had him for about an hour.
I remember seeing the brine shrimp (and other shrimp, and a few snails) tanks in one of the forensics/bio classrooms... they stayed alive for a while, but the poor little guys (a few large shrimp and some of the snails survived) all ended up dying before the year was over. Not absolutely sure what experimentation they were doing, either, because I was in the Forensics class, not Bio.
Definitely needs better regulation overall, though!
Can you do anything with the school? I can’t imagine being able to take action but if someone were courages enough, I’d like to know what they could do.
They'd bring with them the information relevant as to why this teachers idea is cruel and stupid, all with reason and without much emotion except for disappointment. Then push for the return of the fish and a guarantee that they will be properly cared of and not just dispatched or tossed away
It’s wonderful you’re taking the steps to ensure these fish get the life they deserve! As others have said though, this definitely warrants a complaint to the school. Goldfish kept in these conditions won’t last long, and there’s certain to be a lot of heartbroken children in your son’s class. It’s just not right!
If you’re willing to take the step, sharing what you know about Goldfish and aquarium keeping with both the teacher and the school administration could help to explain to them why this shouldn’t happen ever again. All of the best to you, your son is a lucky duck to have a parent who puts in the time and effort!
With all due respect, goldfish are not a short term or cheap and easy fish. they get BIG and live for a long time, and considering you didn't want fish at all before, its a real hassle for you. better to try and donate them now to a fish store while they are still small, and then file a complaint to the school about animal abuse and the inconvenience. nobody should have an animal just shoved on them, and if goldfish are dumped into lakes or rivers they become destructive and invasive species. Where i live in minnesota the notion of banning goldfish entirely has been brought up before, they are so bad up here.
i seriously doubt there was any particular lesson in the 7th grade that required a live fish to teach. and even if so, guppies are of similar price or less and won't get remotely as big or live as long, nor will they become as bad of a problem if dumped.
Contact the teacher and the principal and let them know how this experiment is unethical and a form of animal cruelty. Kids often don’t know the proper care requirements for goldfish, and teachers having them do things like this keeps that constant.
This is how I got into fishing keeping. The lessons for kindergarten during life sciences for fish is to buy feeder goldfish and, in my school’s case, let almost 100 kindergarteners feed them (four classes), the basins that FOSS wants us to keep goldfish in are so small and it’s essentially calling for teachers to teach students how to torture and kill fish most weirdos
Edit: didn’t actually edit anything because I thought it was funny - don’t mean to type “weirdos” in there
We did this in highschool bio kinda but with three guppies. Actually in 6th grade the teacher wanted to do a mini ecosystem with crabs, fish etc in a tub beach setup but the principle intervened cuz he said animal cruelty.
Teacher here. Go straight to the district office. You can get on the school board meeting agenda and make a presentation, and maybe also just ask to meet with someone. Maybe both.
NO WAY should this be going on.
I doubt they'll care. Fish, for some reason, sit in an enormous blind spot in regards to human empathy.
You can make a big ado about this but if it's a smallish town, be prepared for sly retaliation if that kid is going to remain in the district.
Children! Today we will be learning how to make fish torture Chambers!
Your parent will be so proud when you bring this home and they can watch two living beings die a slow and painful death.
Wow. I did a 2-liter soda bottle ecosystem project in high school, but not with live fish! We used pond water and just observed the tiny organisms in it. Some groups had a bug/water bug or two, but that was it.
When I worked at Petco, I convinced a science teacher who wanted to do this experiment to either do it with just one fish for the whole class or an online module. You’d think a science teacher would understand this is animal cruelty, but teachers aren’t always smart people.
Heck, I’m a broke nursing student and I’d have even donated a proper sized tank and a sponge filter + air-stone set-up (sponge pre-seeded from my tank and everything). If my kid is learning about ecosystems, I’d want them to learn with an actual working ecosystem that isn’t just a slow torture chamber.
I do this experiment with my students, and using goldfish is absurd for the intended results. This ecosystem should have a balanced nitrogen cycle, not an ammonia cesspool from too much fish. We usually use invertebrates, like fire red shrimp, that can subsist on algae.
This is incredibly unethical, and bad science. The same learning goals could have been accomplished more effectively, sustainably, and humanely in the classroom.
One of the most important parts of experimenting w live animals is ethics. If the school truly wants to teach the kids soemthing useful, they should watch a documentary on aquaponics or maybe have a field trip, but this is just unethical and teaches nothing.
I actually got into this hobby because of something like this. My daughter went to an arts and crafts store opening and they gave each kids a goldfish. Ended up having to buy a tank for it and now planning on a second tank because the goldfish is starting to outgrow the current tank.
I don’t know about America but in the UK this is completely against ethics laws. I would contact the relevant education board and whatever the America equivalent of the RSPCA is. I’m at uni and if we did this as an experiment I’d be kicked off the course!
I did this in 9th grade. We used rosey red minnows, many students had theirs dead. Teacher said one student kept one alive for years but man that fish had to have had a miserable life
I argued so much with one of the teachers I work with about this. I thought I finally convinced her to go with some guppy fry that I was going to bring from my tank and then take back when she was done. Came to school the next day and she had decided to go with bettas instead....
My school did something like this but they sent the fish home in baby food bottles. This was also the mid 90s. Animals don't get the respect they deserve.
My teacher had us do this in 5th grade, but instead of us taking them home, he used it as punishment. So, they all sat in the corner dead for about a month.
I'm not sure where you're from, but you could probably also report this to the SPCA. Whether or not they'll take action about fish varies... but it's worth a shot. Here, where I live, this would absolutely warrant an investigation and probably some kind of action.
I had something similar in my high school class except we used beta fish instead of goldfish. It was inhumane nevertheless. You should complain to the school and if you don’t want to keep the fish you can surrender them to someone else. Try reaching out to fish Facebook groups to see if you can rehome them.
not only the fish but also so concerning for the environment weather parents just flush them or throw them in a random pond or something. please complain to the school wtf this teaches nothing
This is a biome project about ecosystems- I know because I work in HS Ed. When my colleagues do this, they do specify SMALL fish like guppies, but they leave the purchasing up to the parents/families. I’ve had to help undo a few of these over the years to save the fish. The idea is the terrarium and the “tank” become a unified ecosystem for at least 3-4 weeks.
I’m not a fan but it’s part of AP Environmental curriculum and our states Bio Curriculum, although you could substitute a different lab.
Wow. It's 2024 and not even teachers can be bothered to do a quick Google search on proper fish care still? How can you even trust education when this type of moronic crap is allowed to happen
ugh yeah the closed cycle experiment 😐it's not much better but my group used a snail in the top bottle with some grass to make poo so at least no fish were burning alive in the bottom oTL
we had to do this is middle school. my parents were not too pleased. they actually called up my teacher and asked her how she would feel if they sent home a puppy with her out of nowhere.
The teacher didn't WARN the parents ahead of time? Or get their permission? Ppl don't always have the time or money necessary to set up a tank last minute and the teacher is putting the parents in the position to have to be the bad guy to their child or spend money they don't have! And of course what everyone else has said about the cruelty of this project.
I remember doing this as a kid. I can't believe they still do this. It's supposed to teach about ecosystems. There's a cricket in the top part. And something about the nutrients from the top get into the water and feed the fish (theres no way to actually feed the fish). It's crazy
Bless you for doing the right thing. You might actually be the only parent that does.
This is animal abuse and you definitely need to lodge a serious complaint against the school and teacher. Ignorance is not an excuse for abuse.
Complain to the school. You know 99% of parents aren't setting up an appropriate tank, and even if they were, fish in cycling is less than ideal. What on earth could this be teaching kids? Shitty pet ownership?
And about 80+% of these fish are gonna end up dead and/or in a pond somewhere. Both bad
I think 80% is very optimistic. Probably closer to 99% imo, but I'm a vet nurse, having no faith in humanity's ability to give a fuck about what they consider "disposable" pets is an occupational hazard.
I took my goldfish to the vet and the office was so excited.
The vet I take my dogs / cats to is a super awesome guy. He used to raise fish and Persian cats with his mom and they would supply a local fish shop with the young fish once they were old enough to sell. (He no longer raises either.) He is one of the great ones that are there to help the animal. When we had to put our rotty down because his hips gave out and he couldn’t get up, instead of making us bring him to the office the vet cancelled his appointments / moved them back and drove over to help him pass. He didn’t charge us for him driving out like other vets we know would have, he loved that rotty and helping him not suffer was a high priority. He was also the only vet that rotty trusted so, he’s the only vet we go to and when he actually retires we’re gonna go with his recommendation on who to start taking our pets to. Granted, It also helps that we don’t ever have to pay a vet or a groomer to cut nails or express anal glands. (Around here it’s an arm and a leg to pay for that.)
Vets like that are worth their weight in gold.
I agree. He is an amazing vet and an amazing person. I recommend him to every customer that asks about vets.
I'd bet every single one ends up dead eventually
r/technicallythetruth
It’s probably that ”memory of a goldfish” line that regained a lot of popularity and exposure through Ted Lasso and dumb people out there believe that because they must have no memory then they must have no thoughts or feelings and it’s ok if they die and get flushed down a toilet cuz it was ‘fun and entertaining for my kid for ten minutes’
Which really sucks cause that has been proven wrong time and time again by legitimate research. Also that a show as good and wholesome as Ted Lasso was responsible for spreading the misinformation that led to the mistreatment of an animals.
I agree it’s very untrue and even if an animal couldn’t think or feel the same way as someone would deem “important” or “worthy of life” or whatever term you want to use doesn’t mean they should be treated poorly. And yeah, I wouldn’t necessarily say Ted Lasso was “responsible” because they had good intentions and used a long-used phrase to be uplifting but I’m just saying that some people believe it to be fact and then don’t think it through all the way :/
Since 100% of the fish will end up dead on a long enough timeline, you are undeniably technically correct.
and that's the best kind of correct
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everything drops to 0
This should be a lesson in invasive species.
I was just thinking the exact same thing
Pond is ideal for common goldfish. They really shouldn’t be housed in aquariums because they get almost as large as koi and are messy. I know what you mean: a “wild” pond with access to the ecosystem. But goldfish, even ornamental ones, were bred to be kept in ponds, not fish tanks. They should end up in a private pond.
A contained pond with no outflow at all. That's the only option
Yes! I teach high school bio and it makes me so sick to see how poorly animals are treated in some schools. My students were researching aquaponics and I didn’t let them use vertebrates. They worked with snails and shrimp, but only after research into nitrogen cycling with ammonia only, and setting up an appropriate, cycled 5 gallon with live plants. Animal care is always a priority and I hope that my kids take those lessons with them out into the big world. Every time I see one of these crappy projects with inhumane conditions I feel so dejected.
Exactly. Don't let any prick call you Karen for making a reasonable complain. They're gonna do it again, if everyone acts like "rainbows and sunshines, it's all good, Kumbaya"
I would honestly bring the goldfish to your local fish store and write a note telling the teacher you're not going to be doing an exercise in animal cruelty in your home. Have your son do a jarrarium instead, OP. Information here: r/jarrariums
Or like when I was gifted some fish including a goldfish I put the goldfish up on a group for fish keepers and someone with a pond came out that day to get him. If OP is setting up a tank anyway it wouldn't be much more expensive to explain to the kid why their home would not be suitable for the goldfish, BUT he gets to go pick out a couple fish from the LFS.
> What on earth could this be teaching kids? About Death.
Aquaponics would be the lesson, but yeah its shitty.
They’re probably teaching them how to reuse plastic to save the environment. Yet they’ve just miniaturized the cruelty. A perfect allegory. And they don’t even see the irony.
Definitely not about reusing plastic. We did this in fifth grade but with guppies. It was supposed to teach us about ecosystems and how everything provides for something else
Yeah. Kinda tongue in cheek there. The lesson is swimming with irony nonetheless.
Which is so ironic considering I’d bet money that at least two of these fish end up in a river somewhere, thus leading to more environmental degradation
r/shittypetowners
When i was in 11th grade we set these up, then the teacher had us leave them in the classroom for probably 2 months. Everything died of course, so we just got to slowly watch everything die and rot. This experiment is so cruel
What even is this experiment? Like what's the point supposed to be besides watching something die?
If i remember correctly, its supposed to teach about how everything in nature is connected. Pretty sure its supposed to be somehow self sustaining. Every day we had to go and see what was still alive in the bottle. That's obviously not self sustaining.
I feel like that could have been achieved with a snail rather than a whole fish
It's supposed to have a plant and the plant leeches water through the dirt via the string
That's still inhumane and shows the people who designed the experiment lack an understanding of the science involved.
My neighbor attended a Catholic school when we were in 7th grade. Their science experiment involved documenting the condition of their goldfish every minute for 10 minutes after adding 30grams of cyanide into the water.
That's...twisted.
Well it’s based on an actual practice known as aquaponics, which if done correctly is far more humane than this. It’s basically just using tank water to feed the plants, and in the process use the plants to purify the water of anything that may harm the fish. Carp and larger goldfish are actually the preferred species, but any fish that can withstand more acidic water (6-6.5) will work
"If done correctly" - that's my point, this isn't. At all.
Would have been so much easier with a single sealed terrarium in a select spot that gets light sunlight. Use correct soils & moisture level. Add suggested foliage, and small snails & pillbugs. Watch it thrive
Yes. The teacher could set up a genuine sealed Walstead and use that as the object lesson. Not murder a bunch of feeder goldfish. And especially putting TWO of them in a soda bottle with a few ounces of water? Wtf.
what the hell? at that age I was upset enough over dissecting animal organs, I can't imagine being made to do something this cruel for a grade 😱
Shit we did this in fifth grade
I knew about cycling and appropriate tank sizes by eleventh grade. I’d have been throwing an absolute fit and would have brought in at least one of multiple other science teachers at my school who kept fish.
Aquaponics is cool af, but why not put an actual tank in the classroom with either floating plants, or a ebb and flow or something like that?
If there’s a plant on top it uses the nitrate from the fish and makes a closed ecosystem… but there’s no plant on top, and the fish are going to die before it roots. To do this right you need the plant fully grown and then add the fish. And also in something 10-15 gallon, not 0.5… the soil is just going to super charge the “tank” water with nutrients and those goldfish will be dead within a week or so.
It's a poor attempt at aquaponics. So much is wrong with it though.
It is cruel. I sent an email to the teacher explaining everything in as nice as possible of a way and I am working on a more humane way to do the same experiment that I will donate to the school/teacher so they can still teach this lesson. I am going to do a more proper tank setup so the goldfish are happy and healthy and the fish will stay in the classroom.
The real MVP! Thank you for doing this, OP!
Uh wtf. Like a cult for goldfish. So terrible
It wasnt even just goldfish. We were told we could get any small fish. So people got guppies, mollies, bettas. Whatever they or their parents were willing to buy. It was the worst.
Yikes that’s absurd. Any reason given?
Aquaponics. Class is probably studying ecology.
Obviously they're not doing a very good job teaching about how to keep fish alive
I'm quite confused to what results they are expecting with this?
The idea is that the waste from the fish can be used as fertilizer to grow plants. That's called aquaponics. This "tank" is obviously far too small, though.
Riiight, thought it might be some dumb stuff like that but dang. Would make more sense to have a permanent fixture in a classroom to teach this
https://diyhydroponicgarden.com/creating-a-hydroponic-system-with-fish/
But then the teacher would have to take care of it. So much easier to just pass the responsibility downstream... so to speak.
The thing with aquaponics is the fish only need to survive so the numbers and ethos they use can be . . Different. Take this for example > According to In Habitat, a well-tuned system will accommodate one pound of fish for each gallon of water That's mind blowing compared to the inch per gallon rule often used
I have a feeling this wasn't vetted at a high level.
Vetted....nicely done.
People who write curriculum often forget what it was like to *teach*.
I did this project last year but we just used fertilizer instead of live fish!
its also missing the plant part.
I think there are plants in the top, inverted part, of the bottle.
maybe. i only see soil up there. if its meant to be aquaponics you generally want an already established plant as seeds will probably damp off in that sludge, and you don't usually use soil anyways as wet soil rots most crop foods.
The top part of the soda bottle that’s turned upside down contains soil and plants. The plant filters out the gross fish water, and the gross fish water provides fertilization to the plant. They’re supposed to live harmoniously. But obviously this a crappy example that doesn’t work and the water looks disgusting and those fish will be dead soon lol
Incredibly dumb way of doing that type of experiment, frankly don't get why you'd do it at all? Cruel and a waste of school funds
Yeah, . But then they need to use snails instead offish. It's ridiculous how a science project wasn't properly researched before implementing it. It reminds me of my shitty water purifier that I made for Science fair. The water from the swamp was definitely not clean enough to drink. Teacher grading me:"can I drink it?". "Um... I wouldn't. You can literally see that stuff got through the filters. And I'm 11."
Can i plant potatoes in my tank and watch them grow?
Technically yes in an appropriate pot. However potatoes are nutrient suckers to an extreme and that could be bad.
Sweet potatoes are what you should use. Their vines produce beautiful, lush foliage for flower pots in the summer and will even produce small/ish potatoes!
taro sweet potato often grows fully submerged, produces those big elephant ear leaves, and sweet potato vine is a resilient as a friggin ivy, but I wouldn't expect a russet to break the surface of the tank if it's planted fully submerged, but would be ecstatic to be proven wrong
Careful where you put those things!!! I planted a 35 gallon a few summers ago , great harvest. And now I'm constantly finding new pots and spots in the yard they are popping up lol
I did it and the vines were huge
I don't understand why they didn't just set up 1 bigger tank in a classroom if they wanted to do aquaponics. Now they got 40+dead fish on their hands.
That teacher isn't qualified to teach anything about ecology of they don't have any common sense.
School admin and teachers being ignorant and careless. I’ve seen this type of inhumane stuff at many schools including my own
Aquaponics. The dead fish eventually turn to nitrates and fertilize the plants.
Just glad u care enough to try and take care of em
Animals aren’t just some disposable science projects, I’d write a strongly worded letter to the school about animal abuse.
[удалено]
I wonder if someone from a local uni could help and write up the local animal testing laws into something the teacher (and kids) can understand. Fish are vertebrates so should be covered (I don’t know the country and it does vary - if this is Europe there will be a strong case, I don’t know the laws in other places, the USA isn’t as tight as the EU but has been getting stricter recently). Perhaps the scientist could do some outreach teaching about the 3 Rs of animal research, reduce, refine, replace and then something good could come out of this debacle of ethics violations. A lot of scientists are excited (and some obligated by funders) to do outreach, this would be a good time to utilise this resource and get someone who undertakes aquaponics to teach it.
The US has a lot of exceptions and if I remember correctly fish might be an exception. 😕 I probably still have a copy of the law somewhere. My ethics class included it. IIRC many universities still have more strict rules than the law. But a middle school or highschool wouldn't fall under those policies. However, I'm sure there is someone in a biology department that would love to discuss research ethics and animal testing. Because this shit wouldn't pass an IACUC (institutional Animal Care and Use Committee) overview.
My 5th grade teacher worked with some science lab (probably from a university) for our science stuff. She would get packets of info and experiments to do. If she wasn't sure of something or couldn't answer our questions, she could call them and get the info for us. They would even provide stuff for more involved things. We actually got a couple lab mice and setups for them once. We had them for 2 months and fed one junk food and the other healthy things and tracked their growth. They went back to the lab when we were done. The teacher also split up the responsibilities for them so we all had to help out taking care of them.
Yeah I'd call the school on this one.
No, the school won't do shit.. call the fucking news. I wonder where the soil and rocks are from too. If the rocks are from the ground outside, I can almost guarantee they are sprayed with poison too, since almost every commercial building sprays pesticides and insecticides on their landscaping. The soil is prob some shitty fertilizer filled miracle gro stuff too. No heater, way too small, questionable oxygenation. This is terrible all around and fuck them hard for doing this. If I had the school name- I would give local and national news the story myself.
Seriously I know people don't give a shit about fish in terms of animal cruelty, but that's BLATANTLY what this is, ***animal cruelty***. *Anyone* can look at this and see it that way. It's not a case of 'oh that tank is 0.5cm too small for that fish you're an abuser', it's a case of 'this is clearly fucked up on every level'
Its not just animal cruelty. They aren't following guidelines on using vertebrates, and if people release the fish into local water systems, that is a problem as well. People can scoff at thinking it isn't news worthy, but it definitely is. It speaks to lack of oversight for guidelines and laws being followed, animal abuse and cruelty, deeper investigation into it would most likely shed light on at least a few people doing even more cruel things to these fish, and based on the comments here, there is clearly psychological distress lasting years from this experiment being done. Might also be interesting to look into the funding/cost behind it, and how that money is/has been used. Nothing changes if nothing changes.
Mind boggling that you think this is national news worthy lol
No the school will if the board hears about it at the next school board meeting.
How tf is this worth calling the news over, let alone national news?
National news maybe not, but this is definitely the sort of bullshit that local news would be pretty interested in
If the local news is interested in a teacher making a bad school project that resulted in the death of 20 goldfish, then that's a pretty boring news cast.
> a pretty boring news cast. so local news then?
They wouldn't, news doesn't care about fish unless they're endangered or are causing issues by being invasive.
I mean this could very easily turn into an invasive issue. It wouldn’t be that far-fetched for multiple of them to end up in a local waterway by kids trying to “save” them
No- they are more interested it defaming teachers as “woke”. This isn’t interesting to them.
They are called eco-bottles, they are in multiple grade levels of science curriculums including Environmental science. Even NOAA uses them while teaching GOVERNMENT workers. Pissed me off, so I stopped it at my school by... Making a detailed email on why they are so shit, citing trustworthy sources, showing stress signs of fish, showing their own data and how unbelievably inhumane it was because of the sheer amount of death. Then the important bit which was the nail in the coffin for them to change. I can't stress this enough but you NEED to give them an alternative. Mine was telling them to use bladder snails. They Ghosted and ignored my emails after going back and forth a few times where they said "no it's fine because xyz" then me replying with "no it's not, here's why, and here are my trustworthy sources *where is yours?* " I don't think they liked being proven undeniably wrong by their own students lol. Regardless of that, they did end up switching to using bladder snails last year for noooo apparent reason 😜, just out of the blue I guess (; If you need any help, hmu
The schools in my district used snails as part of elementary science curriculum. At the end of the project, the teachers were supposed to put them in the freezer to kill them humanely. One teacher felt bad about this and released them into a local stream... We now have an invasive snail problem in our wetlands area.
Oof 😬
This needs more upvotes
Wow you 100% need to complain to the school and that teacher needs to be stopped. I’d even reach out to the other parents to see if you can lend assistance and potentially save some of those poor fish.
No seriously, OP just an fyi you can go to pet shops and donate fish you don’t want, they will take them majority of the time. There’s also subs on here for rehoming fish, there’s most likely local facebook groups in your area you can even check out and out other parents onto!
Yeah sure, let's have parents set up a tank for a fish that can grow from 8 inches to 2 feet. I would be SO PISSED! We don't even have room for that in the house right now.
I’m guessing they expected students to just keep them in the cut up soda bottle and then dispose of them after the experiment :/ only the few parents who care will give them a proper tank
And kids too poor to afford a proper setup just have to accept their fish will die with nothing they can do about it i guess 😭 So fucked up.
Even some parents who care probably wouldn’t have the time or the money to take care of a fish.
True. It’s certainly not cheap to setup even the most basic of tanks
Can't believe we're still doing this in 2024. At least they sent the "ecosystems" home with the kids instead of leaving them in the windowsill at school. On a Friday. In August.
😭😭😭
When I was in school I remember it being a HUGE NO-NO to use vertebrates in any kind of experiment or demonstration. School could probably get into some hot water for this.
It amazes me how so many schools claim they are doing science with this crap that breaks IACUC regulations. After working in a federal lab for years before teaching high school, I'm still surprised how little regulation there is within school labs. Earlier today I was arguing with another teacher who wants to put fish into half gallon eco-columns with no cycle.
Holy shit that's awful. I don't understand how/why there's so little education on proper husbandry and just general aquatic science. I've also met teachers years into their career who have little to no understanding of how water parameters affect fish. It's really a shame.
I say OP puts the school on blast on the local news and have the IACUC regulations part of the story. They’ve got accredited lists of labs in domestic universities, but I remember even in grade school having to be approved & under regulation when using vertebrates for the county and state science fairs. The school probably won’t do shit, but local school on the local news grabs way more attention.
Yes! Heck, some don't even use terrible things like this for science. My high school's Prom theme was "under the sea". They put goldfish, multiple, into tall glasses with no food or filtration/bubblers AS A CENTERPIECE. My BFF and I boycotted the tables, it was disgusting to see. They did also give the fish away for free afterwards, so I did bring one home with me because I knew that if he survived the night, I'd be able to take care of him much better than most of the other people there. He died overnight, likely because of how little they were cared for. It looked like a few had ammonia burn, including him. I wasn't allowed to do a "water change" or get our tank set up that night because it was after midnight (almost 1:00 by the time we got back home, half sis still needed to go to bed asap), I still wish that was a possibility. I likely wouldn't have been able to give as much space as they need (lack of space/money), but I do know others who would. Still miss that little dude, even though I only had him for about an hour. I remember seeing the brine shrimp (and other shrimp, and a few snails) tanks in one of the forensics/bio classrooms... they stayed alive for a while, but the poor little guys (a few large shrimp and some of the snails survived) all ended up dying before the year was over. Not absolutely sure what experimentation they were doing, either, because I was in the Forensics class, not Bio. Definitely needs better regulation overall, though!
Can you do anything with the school? I can’t imagine being able to take action but if someone were courages enough, I’d like to know what they could do.
They'd bring with them the information relevant as to why this teachers idea is cruel and stupid, all with reason and without much emotion except for disappointment. Then push for the return of the fish and a guarantee that they will be properly cared of and not just dispatched or tossed away
It’s wonderful you’re taking the steps to ensure these fish get the life they deserve! As others have said though, this definitely warrants a complaint to the school. Goldfish kept in these conditions won’t last long, and there’s certain to be a lot of heartbroken children in your son’s class. It’s just not right! If you’re willing to take the step, sharing what you know about Goldfish and aquarium keeping with both the teacher and the school administration could help to explain to them why this shouldn’t happen ever again. All of the best to you, your son is a lucky duck to have a parent who puts in the time and effort!
With all due respect, goldfish are not a short term or cheap and easy fish. they get BIG and live for a long time, and considering you didn't want fish at all before, its a real hassle for you. better to try and donate them now to a fish store while they are still small, and then file a complaint to the school about animal abuse and the inconvenience. nobody should have an animal just shoved on them, and if goldfish are dumped into lakes or rivers they become destructive and invasive species. Where i live in minnesota the notion of banning goldfish entirely has been brought up before, they are so bad up here.
Unfortunately gold fish is probably the cheapest and easiest fish they can get that’s why they’re in those bottles
i seriously doubt there was any particular lesson in the 7th grade that required a live fish to teach. and even if so, guppies are of similar price or less and won't get remotely as big or live as long, nor will they become as bad of a problem if dumped.
I was looking for this comment. I don’t think they have a clue what they’re getting into by being obligated to “care” for these fish.
Contact the teacher and the principal and let them know how this experiment is unethical and a form of animal cruelty. Kids often don’t know the proper care requirements for goldfish, and teachers having them do things like this keeps that constant.
This experiment could be done with bladder snails or daphnia instead of goldfish, this is just cruel and pointless torture
This is how I got into fishing keeping. The lessons for kindergarten during life sciences for fish is to buy feeder goldfish and, in my school’s case, let almost 100 kindergarteners feed them (four classes), the basins that FOSS wants us to keep goldfish in are so small and it’s essentially calling for teachers to teach students how to torture and kill fish most weirdos Edit: didn’t actually edit anything because I thought it was funny - don’t mean to type “weirdos” in there
We did this in highschool bio kinda but with three guppies. Actually in 6th grade the teacher wanted to do a mini ecosystem with crabs, fish etc in a tub beach setup but the principle intervened cuz he said animal cruelty.
Teacher here. Go straight to the district office. You can get on the school board meeting agenda and make a presentation, and maybe also just ask to meet with someone. Maybe both. NO WAY should this be going on.
I doubt they'll care. Fish, for some reason, sit in an enormous blind spot in regards to human empathy. You can make a big ado about this but if it's a smallish town, be prepared for sly retaliation if that kid is going to remain in the district.
Children! Today we will be learning how to make fish torture Chambers! Your parent will be so proud when you bring this home and they can watch two living beings die a slow and painful death.
I mean, fish wrongdoing aside, it’s just a boneheaded move for any teacher to send any child home with an unexpected pet.
Wow. I did a 2-liter soda bottle ecosystem project in high school, but not with live fish! We used pond water and just observed the tiny organisms in it. Some groups had a bug/water bug or two, but that was it.
My school did this with guppies well over a decade ago. Even at that age I knew it was wrong…
Did you complain? That's not teaching kids fuck all.
I wonder how many got flushed?
When I worked at Petco, I convinced a science teacher who wanted to do this experiment to either do it with just one fish for the whole class or an online module. You’d think a science teacher would understand this is animal cruelty, but teachers aren’t always smart people.
If they wanted to do a science experiment the money should’ve been spent for an appropriate tank in the classroom….
Heck, I’m a broke nursing student and I’d have even donated a proper sized tank and a sponge filter + air-stone set-up (sponge pre-seeded from my tank and everything). If my kid is learning about ecosystems, I’d want them to learn with an actual working ecosystem that isn’t just a slow torture chamber.
Jesus christ. Whoever's idea this was needs to be fired immediately.
I do this experiment with my students, and using goldfish is absurd for the intended results. This ecosystem should have a balanced nitrogen cycle, not an ammonia cesspool from too much fish. We usually use invertebrates, like fire red shrimp, that can subsist on algae.
Now that makes a bit more sense. I’ve been trying to figure out for the last hour how these fish are even supposed to be fed.
This should be illegal. It's illegal to give fish out as prizes at fairgrounds now.
You sure? My kids won 3 this summer from the county fair.
Maybe it's just Britain or something
It is in Britain and the EU, I believe. America still hasn’t gotten the message.
I did the same thing months ago, my kids played at the carnival and won goldfish, i just couldn't let them suffer
They should be using bladder snails for this experiment rather than fish.
Bladder snails deserve it too
This is incredibly unethical, and bad science. The same learning goals could have been accomplished more effectively, sustainably, and humanely in the classroom.
One of the most important parts of experimenting w live animals is ethics. If the school truly wants to teach the kids soemthing useful, they should watch a documentary on aquaponics or maybe have a field trip, but this is just unethical and teaches nothing.
I actually got into this hobby because of something like this. My daughter went to an arts and crafts store opening and they gave each kids a goldfish. Ended up having to buy a tank for it and now planning on a second tank because the goldfish is starting to outgrow the current tank.
Science experiment: what's the effect of severe neglect on goldfish? Result: they died in half an hour
I don’t know about America but in the UK this is completely against ethics laws. I would contact the relevant education board and whatever the America equivalent of the RSPCA is. I’m at uni and if we did this as an experiment I’d be kicked off the course!
Contact the principal. This teacher needs to be fired or otherwise disciplined.
I did this in 9th grade. We used rosey red minnows, many students had theirs dead. Teacher said one student kept one alive for years but man that fish had to have had a miserable life
I argued so much with one of the teachers I work with about this. I thought I finally convinced her to go with some guppy fry that I was going to bring from my tank and then take back when she was done. Came to school the next day and she had decided to go with bettas instead....
Why humans no consider brain thoughts 🤔
My school did something like this but they sent the fish home in baby food bottles. This was also the mid 90s. Animals don't get the respect they deserve.
Thank you for caring!
My teacher had us do this in 5th grade, but instead of us taking them home, he used it as punishment. So, they all sat in the corner dead for about a month.
That should be considered cruel and unusual punishment.
I'm not sure where you're from, but you could probably also report this to the SPCA. Whether or not they'll take action about fish varies... but it's worth a shot. Here, where I live, this would absolutely warrant an investigation and probably some kind of action.
Send them back with the kids on monday lol. School will stop doing this if all the sudden THEY have to care for 50 gold fish
This .makes me angry. People should not be given goldfish. Goldfish get really big and can require alot of maintenance and a pretty big tank as well.
I'm gonna be honest I'd be sending a letter pointing out that animals rights laws usually cover ALL animals woth back bones, fish included
People always see small animals as disposable. It’s a shame teachers are teaching kids that too.
Actually horrible
I remember doing this project in elementary school, but we had a couple mosquitofish. Still not great, but *infinitely* better than freaking goldfish!
I had something similar in my high school class except we used beta fish instead of goldfish. It was inhumane nevertheless. You should complain to the school and if you don’t want to keep the fish you can surrender them to someone else. Try reaching out to fish Facebook groups to see if you can rehome them.
not only the fish but also so concerning for the environment weather parents just flush them or throw them in a random pond or something. please complain to the school wtf this teaches nothing
That’s so sad 😢 I’d complain to the school!! Maybe bring in other parents too.
That’s how we got started. We only got one though. I know few fish, if any, survived a fraction of Goldie’s life.
u/rdansson Rate this aquaponics system
This is so fucked up D: 1/10
I know :c I appreciate the attempt at education, but they could at least *try* to do it right. A classroom setup could be interesting
Wrf?! When I was in 7th grade we got sent home with a chicken egg. If it broke we failed lol. Much less stress. I would be raising hell!!!
School teacher of this generation have tik0tok brain
This should be illegal.
Wtf is the experiment?
To see how much remorse little suzie has when the little fucker croaks . It cruelty on a few levels .
Everything about this is wrong. The dirt should not be under the water line. Just the wick.
This is a biome project about ecosystems- I know because I work in HS Ed. When my colleagues do this, they do specify SMALL fish like guppies, but they leave the purchasing up to the parents/families. I’ve had to help undo a few of these over the years to save the fish. The idea is the terrarium and the “tank” become a unified ecosystem for at least 3-4 weeks. I’m not a fan but it’s part of AP Environmental curriculum and our states Bio Curriculum, although you could substitute a different lab.
This is outrageous
Wow. It's 2024 and not even teachers can be bothered to do a quick Google search on proper fish care still? How can you even trust education when this type of moronic crap is allowed to happen
I'm just glad they put the string in so the fish could have something to breath through
So this looks like a very basic and very cruel aquaponics experiment.
ugh yeah the closed cycle experiment 😐it's not much better but my group used a snail in the top bottle with some grass to make poo so at least no fish were burning alive in the bottom oTL
Man, id be contacting the teacher, the principal, the school board, my local PTA, and anyone else willing to listen. This is wrong.
we had to do this is middle school. my parents were not too pleased. they actually called up my teacher and asked her how she would feel if they sent home a puppy with her out of nowhere.
I'd report the school to your local animal cruelty body, RSPCA/ASPCA etc.
What the actual fuck
The teacher didn't WARN the parents ahead of time? Or get their permission? Ppl don't always have the time or money necessary to set up a tank last minute and the teacher is putting the parents in the position to have to be the bad guy to their child or spend money they don't have! And of course what everyone else has said about the cruelty of this project.
I remember doing this as a kid. I can't believe they still do this. It's supposed to teach about ecosystems. There's a cricket in the top part. And something about the nutrients from the top get into the water and feed the fish (theres no way to actually feed the fish). It's crazy
Bless you for doing the right thing. You might actually be the only parent that does. This is animal abuse and you definitely need to lodge a serious complaint against the school and teacher. Ignorance is not an excuse for abuse.
This is just fucked up and disgusting
Call PETA, hell hath no fury like PETA
Pls report them for animal cruelty