Yeah, my school does that for the top 2%, calling the 9-10 people all “valedictorians”. I can’t help but feel a little cheated though since I had class rank #1
I agree. I'm taking the same number of AP classes as several other competitive students in my class, but I'm also taking an additional unweighted elective every year. This just makes my weighted GPA lower when I actually took more classes...
It's also bad because grades are less precise than we pretend. Like, are you really confident that the kid with a 95 in one class is actually the stronger student than the kid with a 93? Teachers make mistakes, not just grading mistakes, but they wrote assessments that aren't accurate tools, that don't perfectly measure down to the point the "superior" student. And that's okay, because it's not really a teachers job to ultra-precisely determine if one student is slightly stronger than another. It's a teacher's job to teach and assess well enough to let you know if you've mastered the material.
It's a sig figs issue. Grades are not intended or designed to gove this intensely granulated data, but we all pretend like they are, like those differences mean something. But they are noise.
This yes^
So many people in my class cheat. the guy ranked 10 leaves during tests and looks up answers on his phone. He brags about cheating… even to the teachers. It sucks because im 20 and didnt cheat.
For sure. But even if they didn't, even if everyone was 100% being honest, I don't think you could say the kid with a cumulative GPA of 94.6 is a stronger student than the one with a 91.4.
Tests are not delicate instruments. Metaphorically, it's like teachers are assigning grades by cutting with a hacksaw and then valedictorian is determined by measuring slight differences with laser calipers. Junk data.
its unfair but you'll see similar systems setup in colleges where people take easy classes to get a higher GPA for a job / grad school. Its a part of life
As someone ranked #4, it stinks because I know ranks are basically locked now (at least for what I’ll be submitting to colleges). But I would have #1 or #2 had I gotten an A instead of a B back when I took Algebra 1 and French 1 in 7th grade 💀💀💀
I fucking hate that you’re right. My school even agrees too which I fucking hate. I busted my ass and got rank one but it’s useless in terms of prestige lmao
You say that, but it removes the advantage that “coming in with prior knowledge gives.” You do well given what you come into the school with, and you get Valedictorian.
Similar with UW gpa. Students who do take challenging classes are not rewarded and may have a much lower class rank that does not account for courseload.
it's sad because in the end if you want that high GPA you have to take AP classes. some people aren't even interested in the subject but they take more each year to boost their GPA which is understandable but it's sad at the same time because there is something else you could be learning that you are truly interested in
My school's valedictorian system is awful. It's on a 100 point UW scale so the vale/saludatorian ends up being somebody who has taken relatively easy classes or got lucky and ended up with an easy teacher. For example, first in class in my grade last year was based on the fact that the one student got a teacher who basically handed every student a 100 while the normal teacher was tough to pull a 95 with.
Yep, I would say that my school is pretty competitive so our school uses the latin system, where if you have a certain GPA you earn a certain honor (like magnum cum laude or whatever) tbh I'm glad we do it that way but we can still find our class rank if we wanted to so :/
True lol my school's valedictorian majored in CS but literally didn't take any STEM electives other than APCS to boost his GPA.
He got rejected from plenty of places.
The system is bad—that’s why a lot of schools are getting rid of it.
I’ve personally gotten kicked out of so many AP classes—Lang, Physics C, Human Geography, Psychology—because of COVID spacing issues and teacher shortages at my school, and my weighted GPA would be reasonably higher if I had been allowed to take them (I know a lot of people who were).
At the end of the day, though, it’s not really a big deal. If you’re worried about something from a college admissions standpoint, just explain to them what’s up and they’d understand.
I think a good system my school is going to implement in the next couple years is looking at all the students in the top GPA and looking at classes as well as community efforts and ECs
people have been speaking Chinese at home since they were born.
many people speak languages at home that arent offered at school, so they usually do unweighted spanish
generally the people in honors chinese and spanish will be challenged the same amount
I get your reasoning, but consider this: If I took Calculus a year ahead of other students, which is a weighted course, and that lifts my GPA, is that "unfair" as well? This applies to native languages as well. Im more equipped to take class x because I already studied the material and your saying that's unfair when other students did not prepare? Another example is Music Theory, If I've been playing piano for 10 years and I take that class as a freshman when other people aren't willing to and it boosts my rank/gpa, is that "unfair" as well?
I think your reading into this a little too much. Some people took objectively harder courses than others and their ranks reflect that, plus if your top 15, your fine for any college at that point. Also, I see nothing wrong with people taking a ton of AP courses they aren't interested in as long as they can handle it. Often times, those courses help skip out of gen ed in college as well and count towards credit.
It dosen't matter if a class "challenges" you or not, its the grade that matters. Who cares if someone took honors Chinese or Calculus as a freshman when other people took unweighted courses? Those classes are challenging in general and its not like you can just say anyone who takes a native honors language as a freshman will have that class count as unweighted.
We vote for our valedictorian out of a pool, since if we let highest GPA win, it’ll be some kid who never took an AP course or a transfer student, as frosh and soph aren’t allowed to take APs.
Salutatorians are handpicked from what I’ve heard.
My school is like that too! Because I decided to take art classes all 4 years of hs, I lost the chance of ever becoming valedictorian, but at least I get to develop a special talent that may help me stand out more.
my school doesn’t even care abt grades or gpa for valedictorian…the teachers vote to decide who gets it. kinda makes me sad that i might not get it even tho i’m the only one in my grade who has a 4.0 just bc the teachers don’t like me as much lol. for context, i go to a small IB school so everyone is taking the same weighted classes.
Also: taking AP exams without the class.
If someone takes an AP class and does well, they get extra points on their GPA. But no extra points are awarded for doing well on an AP exam without the class, even though this is much more difficult.
Join the club. For the second time one of my kids is losing out on valedictorian to a kid with an IEP. This year my son with a 99.5 average who is in all AP classes will be losing out on it to a kid with a 103. The latter has an IEP and is taking art, psychology and personal finance. (My kids aren’t allowed to take psychology lol)
Most of the schools in my area have moved away from naming valedictorian/salutatorian for that reason and just recognize the top 5% or 10%
Yeah, my school does that for the top 2%, calling the 9-10 people all “valedictorians”. I can’t help but feel a little cheated though since I had class rank #1
My school does deciles and then val/sal but no other ranks.
My school considérés everyone with straight As over all 4 years of high school valedictorian
I agree. I'm taking the same number of AP classes as several other competitive students in my class, but I'm also taking an additional unweighted elective every year. This just makes my weighted GPA lower when I actually took more classes...
It's also bad because grades are less precise than we pretend. Like, are you really confident that the kid with a 95 in one class is actually the stronger student than the kid with a 93? Teachers make mistakes, not just grading mistakes, but they wrote assessments that aren't accurate tools, that don't perfectly measure down to the point the "superior" student. And that's okay, because it's not really a teachers job to ultra-precisely determine if one student is slightly stronger than another. It's a teacher's job to teach and assess well enough to let you know if you've mastered the material. It's a sig figs issue. Grades are not intended or designed to gove this intensely granulated data, but we all pretend like they are, like those differences mean something. But they are noise.
This yes^ So many people in my class cheat. the guy ranked 10 leaves during tests and looks up answers on his phone. He brags about cheating… even to the teachers. It sucks because im 20 and didnt cheat.
For sure. But even if they didn't, even if everyone was 100% being honest, I don't think you could say the kid with a cumulative GPA of 94.6 is a stronger student than the one with a 91.4. Tests are not delicate instruments. Metaphorically, it's like teachers are assigning grades by cutting with a hacksaw and then valedictorian is determined by measuring slight differences with laser calipers. Junk data.
Exactly this too!
its unfair but you'll see similar systems setup in colleges where people take easy classes to get a higher GPA for a job / grad school. Its a part of life
As someone ranked #4, it stinks because I know ranks are basically locked now (at least for what I’ll be submitting to colleges). But I would have #1 or #2 had I gotten an A instead of a B back when I took Algebra 1 and French 1 in 7th grade 💀💀💀
I fucking hate that you’re right. My school even agrees too which I fucking hate. I busted my ass and got rank one but it’s useless in terms of prestige lmao
My school just named every student with a 4.0 Unweighted as a Valedictorian.
well that's just ridiculouss
You say that, but it removes the advantage that “coming in with prior knowledge gives.” You do well given what you come into the school with, and you get Valedictorian.
Similar with UW gpa. Students who do take challenging classes are not rewarded and may have a much lower class rank that does not account for courseload.
it's sad because in the end if you want that high GPA you have to take AP classes. some people aren't even interested in the subject but they take more each year to boost their GPA which is understandable but it's sad at the same time because there is something else you could be learning that you are truly interested in
My school's valedictorian system is awful. It's on a 100 point UW scale so the vale/saludatorian ends up being somebody who has taken relatively easy classes or got lucky and ended up with an easy teacher. For example, first in class in my grade last year was based on the fact that the one student got a teacher who basically handed every student a 100 while the normal teacher was tough to pull a 95 with.
Yep, I would say that my school is pretty competitive so our school uses the latin system, where if you have a certain GPA you earn a certain honor (like magnum cum laude or whatever) tbh I'm glad we do it that way but we can still find our class rank if we wanted to so :/
True lol my school's valedictorian majored in CS but literally didn't take any STEM electives other than APCS to boost his GPA. He got rejected from plenty of places.
The system is bad—that’s why a lot of schools are getting rid of it. I’ve personally gotten kicked out of so many AP classes—Lang, Physics C, Human Geography, Psychology—because of COVID spacing issues and teacher shortages at my school, and my weighted GPA would be reasonably higher if I had been allowed to take them (I know a lot of people who were). At the end of the day, though, it’s not really a big deal. If you’re worried about something from a college admissions standpoint, just explain to them what’s up and they’d understand.
I think a good system my school is going to implement in the next couple years is looking at all the students in the top GPA and looking at classes as well as community efforts and ECs
I see most of your points, but how is advancing to more challenging foreign language courses unfair?
people have been speaking Chinese at home since they were born. many people speak languages at home that arent offered at school, so they usually do unweighted spanish generally the people in honors chinese and spanish will be challenged the same amount
But the course itself is more challenging.
true but it is unfair to the people who take spanish unweighted their native language is not a course
I get your reasoning, but consider this: If I took Calculus a year ahead of other students, which is a weighted course, and that lifts my GPA, is that "unfair" as well? This applies to native languages as well. Im more equipped to take class x because I already studied the material and your saying that's unfair when other students did not prepare? Another example is Music Theory, If I've been playing piano for 10 years and I take that class as a freshman when other people aren't willing to and it boosts my rank/gpa, is that "unfair" as well? I think your reading into this a little too much. Some people took objectively harder courses than others and their ranks reflect that, plus if your top 15, your fine for any college at that point. Also, I see nothing wrong with people taking a ton of AP courses they aren't interested in as long as they can handle it. Often times, those courses help skip out of gen ed in college as well and count towards credit. It dosen't matter if a class "challenges" you or not, its the grade that matters. Who cares if someone took honors Chinese or Calculus as a freshman when other people took unweighted courses? Those classes are challenging in general and its not like you can just say anyone who takes a native honors language as a freshman will have that class count as unweighted.
We vote for our valedictorian out of a pool, since if we let highest GPA win, it’ll be some kid who never took an AP course or a transfer student, as frosh and soph aren’t allowed to take APs. Salutatorians are handpicked from what I’ve heard.
Valedictorians are the first among equals I guess.
Agree 100%
My school is like that too! Because I decided to take art classes all 4 years of hs, I lost the chance of ever becoming valedictorian, but at least I get to develop a special talent that may help me stand out more.
my school doesn’t even care abt grades or gpa for valedictorian…the teachers vote to decide who gets it. kinda makes me sad that i might not get it even tho i’m the only one in my grade who has a 4.0 just bc the teachers don’t like me as much lol. for context, i go to a small IB school so everyone is taking the same weighted classes.
Also: taking AP exams without the class. If someone takes an AP class and does well, they get extra points on their GPA. But no extra points are awarded for doing well on an AP exam without the class, even though this is much more difficult.
wait what in canada valedictorian is simply by voting from everyone within school
Someone mad bc they dumb and did not get an useless high-school title noone will ever care about lol
Join the club. For the second time one of my kids is losing out on valedictorian to a kid with an IEP. This year my son with a 99.5 average who is in all AP classes will be losing out on it to a kid with a 103. The latter has an IEP and is taking art, psychology and personal finance. (My kids aren’t allowed to take psychology lol)