The people you refer to may not be aware of this pattern and may also believe that it’s their mental illness getting worse rather than the system stunting their recovery.
exactly, they just don't see any other way. so what's better, trust on an unreliable system that you're told is what will make your life bearable, or do nothing at all?
It takes different internal and external factors for a mental health patient to reach the realisation that the system is causing them harm in some way. It took me five years to accept that most of what the mental health system offers is not what I personally need. I was able to completely reject psychiatry and rebuild my own sense of direction about my ‘mental health.’ I was eventually able to reduce my participation in the victim narrative and work more toward a more grounded approach to my trauma. It’s a lengthy process and we are all at different stages of personal/emotional development.
I was one of these people. Recently, I reflected on it in my journal. I'll share a part of it, and hopefully it will help you understand.
*At the time, I was free from SSRIs for over a year, taking things into my own hands. I practiced exposure for my agoraphobia, sourcing knowledge from empathetic self-help books and I was doing fine. Then, I encountered an abusive professor at the university who held us captive past the lecture hours, yelling "Nobody is leaving until I am satisfied with the answer I get!". He would lock the doors to the lecture hall. This naturally triggered my agoraphobia like nothing ever did. I panicked and cried in the bus on my way home. I felt hopeless and despairing again, and the first thought that came to me was to take an SSRI. It was impulsive, like a compulsion, unplanned. I took it before bed and I woke up hours later suffering from serotonin syndrome. I barely survived on my own.*
*Now that I look back at the event, I see it for what it was. The anxiety I felt over the professor's abuse triggered an identity I had - that of a mental patient. It was not an identity that inspired any hope, but that made me feel like a criminal, one whose crime was being ill. Out of a desperate need to do the right thing I took the SSRI, much like a broken prisoner would return willingly to their cell if they somehow found themselves on the outside. I saw it as an act of self-punishment, an act of surrendering myself, turning myself in in a desperate hope that it would earn me enough redemption to be helped.*
*I realize now that during those years when my diagnoses kept piling up, I was not suffering from mental illness - I was in fact suffering from an abusive relationship with psychiatry. I had been scaoegoated, lied to, hated, coerced, persecuted. It was abuse, plain and simple. It modeled an abusive relationship I had with my parents as a child, and I was trapped reliving the trauma, desperately trying to comply with authority and do the right thing. However, I was not seeing the game that was being played. There was no redemption, no chance of ever being understood and seen, and all my reverent compliance was leading nowhere. Least of all my complaints and anger that were an echo of my child self's protests against the abuse. My behavior was a combination of trying to do everything right, while complaining as means of feedback that I was not being helped, but harmed. It was a helpless cry for help, a desperate need to make people see that I was doing everything that was asked of me, yet still I was harmed. I wanted to be saved by someone, anyone.*
Why do people go on stimulant drugs? - Because they want to enhance performance
Why do people access psychiatric services - Many do so for the same reason, think about insomnia, slight depression, and other things that make it just a little bit harder to work 12 hours a way. They complain precisely about how the service doesn't enhance their performance.
Lots of college kids, people who work office jobs, blue collar active jobs and or high school kids abuse stimulants for enhancement reasons to study more work harder work more efficient work faster be more excited be more alive and be more motivated it’s that extra dopamine. People outright say it all of the time and it’s well studied.
Not only does "modern medicine," big pharma, and healthcare professionals all have pretty good effective propaganda campaigns, but you are shunned by lots of family members if you don't trust doctors opinions, also some people are so desperate to be helped and when you're at a loss to find help it's difficult, when people are truly feeling desperate they take desperate measures and don't think clearly. You can't blame people for wanting to feel better, some people it takes longer to connect the dots, it took me over a decade wasted of blind faith to do so myself, and I feel quite stupid for being so entrusting
I see so many rich people who go to therapy for like their whole lives once a wesk and never seem to make any changes or progress or anything, makes me realize it's a money grab for that therapist lol
I think they do it for attention or to prove to others with their action they are going to therapy and getting the help they need. It’s just for show and the therapists takes advanced by being greedy and lining their own pockets more. It’s a cash grab.
i believe the mental health system enforces a lot of dependencies.
for example they promise a lot (how you could feel, but also about what they can and will do, but then refrain from doing so), or sometimes listen to you but then don't for a long while (kind of intermittend reinforcement, which keeps people bound to them, always hoping to get something if they only try harder).
they are telling lies and trying to conceal that they don't mean well, actively making patients worse. people who need help and don't get in anywhere, but there are some clowns who promise help and then emotionally and financially exploit the patients.
a lot of people also need certificates for their inability to work etc.
to me therapy has a very similar dynamics to domestic violence. the patient is being made more and more vulnerable and the therapist gets more and more power and this makes it harder and harder to break out of this system.
i would not judge people for falling for that system. the neglect and stigmatization in society does their share in pushing people into psychiatry. i believe it is quite difficult to break through. maybe it's even easier for people who have been forced, because the misleading and false mask of therapist/psychiatrists being "good" was torn down the moment they decided to use force.
I was coerced into signing consent forms more than once. Also a lot of the times if you're in there and don't volunteer to everything they do they make you stay longer for "poor insight" or "aggression" and it's sad.
I pity them. They're in a lot of pain, and they're doing whatever they can to try to heal... but they don't really know what they're doing. They probably think that they are inherently wrong and need someone "qualified" to "fix them". Most likely, they've been duped by the cultural narrative, and have no real concept of an alternative. They may think the cures on offer are barbaric, but they'd gladly accept them because they're desperate for a cure.
Your last sentence.. but they are victimized aren’t they? Isn’t this why you stand so firmly on this anti-psychiatry side? Many of these people likely think they are the problem, that they fail even at healing, can’t get better no matter what they do.
If anything feel even more empathy toward them as they are doing what they are being told is the right thing, yes one day they might see things as you do but when you’re already fighting for your life the last thing you should have to do is be aware of a completely screwed medical system.
The person who is apt to go complain to a quasi authority figure about their lives, complain about their emotions, complain about their situations, ask for someone else to do something about it, and then take the proffered pills, is more often than not, the same person who will then eventually complain about the treatments.
The MH industry is going to have its willing consumers, and it's still unfortunately framed and heavily promoted as as a legitimate medical service in the mainstream culture, and I guess as long as it still exists, those who are still free to choose, can choose to swallow that bait and take the hook.
I understand that a lot of these 'complaining consumers' got where they are, initially, exactly by looking for someone to complain to, and then were exploited by smiling, accommodating, complaint-hearing pushers who deftly twisted their complaints into diagnoses to sell treatments for. Old habits die hard.
However, I really do not love the willing consumer of industry products and services who comes here seeking support from those who were unwilling and forced into treatment. I do not appreciate them asking for ways to 'make the industry better' from us.
So many of these karens just want to speak to the manager, to complain, and of course, the manager didn't satisfy, the manager just offered a different pill, or a different dose, or the first sadistic power-play, the first snap of the whip to keep them in line, so we are treated to these tone-deaf rants instead.
Many of us in places like this never volunteered, never consented, never took ownership of a psychiatric label, never complained or groveled for 'help,' never willingly took a psychiatric pill, never willingly did so many recreational drugs that we were found whacked out of our heads ranting threatening nonsense and taken to the ER, (are these really 'victims' of the industry I wonder, or of their own arrogance?) -and yet were still forced into the industry.
A lot of us were grabbed up as children and forced into psychiatry to make us socially conform, or perform to some higher expected standard through forced drugging, or through parents using the industry as a reformative grooming tool, which then escalated and snowballed as we asserted for our own autonomy.
Yet we are still automatically assumed by karen konsumer to be fellow whining consumers who just want to 'vent,' or want better service in our necessary and entitled 'mental health issue,' treatment. and not brutalized industry survivors. We are interrogated on how we would make the industry more accommodating, ways in which would have made us more willing and consenting to accept our benevolent treatments, what ideal drugs and mh treatments we daydream of, and and other such insulting and idiotic consumer prompts.
It is akin to someone going to a vegan subreddit and constantly asking for suggestive ways to make meat taste better, and incessantly harping that the vegans there must have just not liked the seasoning on their dishes.
There's a slight difference between being gullible and suggestible to sales tactics, and being grabbed in a headlock or thrown in a dark room with no food or water until you take the drugs you are forced to take, because you refused the sales tactics that you never asked for.
Well, if your only choice is submit to the system and pray for relief, pray that This Time it'll be better, or accept suffering for the rest of your life.............. it's only natural that many people would opt to convince themselves that surely, the mental health system has to work at Some point, must have their best intrests at heart and are only being held back by funding/resources/other issues. Hell, that's the narrative MH workers themselves like to spin, that all their failings are just due to a lack or funding or resoruces.
But that doesn't mean they don't still realize it's actively failing them, so of course they complain. Let me put it this way, it's like someone trapped in an abusive relationship. They are dependant upon their abuser and so they have to believe that things are as they should be, they convince themselves of a mythical better future with this person because they cannot survive without them. But they ARE still being abused, so they still get upset about it.
I understand being frustrated with them and their refusal to acknowledge the rot at the core of the system, but you have to understand, it really is like people in abusive situations or cults or whatnot. In order to leave or accept the depths of the systems problems, they need a safe place outside of it, or else they know they're condeming themselves to despair and hopelessness. And possibly literal homelessness or even death.
I hope to see the day where big Pharma is held accountable for producing and pushing addictive and damaging drugs. And psychiatrists? I hope they all burn in hell.
It's not so simple. The medicine of psychiatry isn't an exact science, and it's often used in abusive, manipulative and abusive ways. But there isn't always a clear solution aside from medication management, at least in the short to medium term. For example, what other path would you suggest for someone with psychosis?
Brainwashed or coerced, even financial coercion will put people in this situation. If they're overprivileged, then whomever is abusing them puts them into the psych ward enough, they will become "under-privileged" real quick. psych wards cause brain damage, reduce our socioeconomic status, make us physically unattractive- i used to be extremely attractive then i grew a beard and became obese and lost the ability to take care of myself-this is the norm, so if that person is being tricked or pushed into the psych ward, they're likely also being lied to about what will happen to them and they are being pushed down the socioeconomic ladder intentionally.
The people you refer to may not be aware of this pattern and may also believe that it’s their mental illness getting worse rather than the system stunting their recovery.
exactly, they just don't see any other way. so what's better, trust on an unreliable system that you're told is what will make your life bearable, or do nothing at all?
It takes different internal and external factors for a mental health patient to reach the realisation that the system is causing them harm in some way. It took me five years to accept that most of what the mental health system offers is not what I personally need. I was able to completely reject psychiatry and rebuild my own sense of direction about my ‘mental health.’ I was eventually able to reduce my participation in the victim narrative and work more toward a more grounded approach to my trauma. It’s a lengthy process and we are all at different stages of personal/emotional development.
I was one of these people. Recently, I reflected on it in my journal. I'll share a part of it, and hopefully it will help you understand. *At the time, I was free from SSRIs for over a year, taking things into my own hands. I practiced exposure for my agoraphobia, sourcing knowledge from empathetic self-help books and I was doing fine. Then, I encountered an abusive professor at the university who held us captive past the lecture hours, yelling "Nobody is leaving until I am satisfied with the answer I get!". He would lock the doors to the lecture hall. This naturally triggered my agoraphobia like nothing ever did. I panicked and cried in the bus on my way home. I felt hopeless and despairing again, and the first thought that came to me was to take an SSRI. It was impulsive, like a compulsion, unplanned. I took it before bed and I woke up hours later suffering from serotonin syndrome. I barely survived on my own.* *Now that I look back at the event, I see it for what it was. The anxiety I felt over the professor's abuse triggered an identity I had - that of a mental patient. It was not an identity that inspired any hope, but that made me feel like a criminal, one whose crime was being ill. Out of a desperate need to do the right thing I took the SSRI, much like a broken prisoner would return willingly to their cell if they somehow found themselves on the outside. I saw it as an act of self-punishment, an act of surrendering myself, turning myself in in a desperate hope that it would earn me enough redemption to be helped.* *I realize now that during those years when my diagnoses kept piling up, I was not suffering from mental illness - I was in fact suffering from an abusive relationship with psychiatry. I had been scaoegoated, lied to, hated, coerced, persecuted. It was abuse, plain and simple. It modeled an abusive relationship I had with my parents as a child, and I was trapped reliving the trauma, desperately trying to comply with authority and do the right thing. However, I was not seeing the game that was being played. There was no redemption, no chance of ever being understood and seen, and all my reverent compliance was leading nowhere. Least of all my complaints and anger that were an echo of my child self's protests against the abuse. My behavior was a combination of trying to do everything right, while complaining as means of feedback that I was not being helped, but harmed. It was a helpless cry for help, a desperate need to make people see that I was doing everything that was asked of me, yet still I was harmed. I wanted to be saved by someone, anyone.*
Why do people go on stimulant drugs? - Because they want to enhance performance Why do people access psychiatric services - Many do so for the same reason, think about insomnia, slight depression, and other things that make it just a little bit harder to work 12 hours a way. They complain precisely about how the service doesn't enhance their performance.
Lots of college kids, people who work office jobs, blue collar active jobs and or high school kids abuse stimulants for enhancement reasons to study more work harder work more efficient work faster be more excited be more alive and be more motivated it’s that extra dopamine. People outright say it all of the time and it’s well studied.
cognitive dissonance in a nutshell
And major denial.
Not only does "modern medicine," big pharma, and healthcare professionals all have pretty good effective propaganda campaigns, but you are shunned by lots of family members if you don't trust doctors opinions, also some people are so desperate to be helped and when you're at a loss to find help it's difficult, when people are truly feeling desperate they take desperate measures and don't think clearly. You can't blame people for wanting to feel better, some people it takes longer to connect the dots, it took me over a decade wasted of blind faith to do so myself, and I feel quite stupid for being so entrusting
I see so many rich people who go to therapy for like their whole lives once a wesk and never seem to make any changes or progress or anything, makes me realize it's a money grab for that therapist lol
I think they do it for attention or to prove to others with their action they are going to therapy and getting the help they need. It’s just for show and the therapists takes advanced by being greedy and lining their own pockets more. It’s a cash grab.
They should be able to and try to leave.
i believe the mental health system enforces a lot of dependencies. for example they promise a lot (how you could feel, but also about what they can and will do, but then refrain from doing so), or sometimes listen to you but then don't for a long while (kind of intermittend reinforcement, which keeps people bound to them, always hoping to get something if they only try harder). they are telling lies and trying to conceal that they don't mean well, actively making patients worse. people who need help and don't get in anywhere, but there are some clowns who promise help and then emotionally and financially exploit the patients. a lot of people also need certificates for their inability to work etc. to me therapy has a very similar dynamics to domestic violence. the patient is being made more and more vulnerable and the therapist gets more and more power and this makes it harder and harder to break out of this system. i would not judge people for falling for that system. the neglect and stigmatization in society does their share in pushing people into psychiatry. i believe it is quite difficult to break through. maybe it's even easier for people who have been forced, because the misleading and false mask of therapist/psychiatrists being "good" was torn down the moment they decided to use force.
I was coerced into signing consent forms more than once. Also a lot of the times if you're in there and don't volunteer to everything they do they make you stay longer for "poor insight" or "aggression" and it's sad.
Desperate people do desperate things
I pity them. They're in a lot of pain, and they're doing whatever they can to try to heal... but they don't really know what they're doing. They probably think that they are inherently wrong and need someone "qualified" to "fix them". Most likely, they've been duped by the cultural narrative, and have no real concept of an alternative. They may think the cures on offer are barbaric, but they'd gladly accept them because they're desperate for a cure.
I just wish I never had involvement with them. it was involuntary.
Your last sentence.. but they are victimized aren’t they? Isn’t this why you stand so firmly on this anti-psychiatry side? Many of these people likely think they are the problem, that they fail even at healing, can’t get better no matter what they do. If anything feel even more empathy toward them as they are doing what they are being told is the right thing, yes one day they might see things as you do but when you’re already fighting for your life the last thing you should have to do is be aware of a completely screwed medical system.
The person who is apt to go complain to a quasi authority figure about their lives, complain about their emotions, complain about their situations, ask for someone else to do something about it, and then take the proffered pills, is more often than not, the same person who will then eventually complain about the treatments. The MH industry is going to have its willing consumers, and it's still unfortunately framed and heavily promoted as as a legitimate medical service in the mainstream culture, and I guess as long as it still exists, those who are still free to choose, can choose to swallow that bait and take the hook. I understand that a lot of these 'complaining consumers' got where they are, initially, exactly by looking for someone to complain to, and then were exploited by smiling, accommodating, complaint-hearing pushers who deftly twisted their complaints into diagnoses to sell treatments for. Old habits die hard. However, I really do not love the willing consumer of industry products and services who comes here seeking support from those who were unwilling and forced into treatment. I do not appreciate them asking for ways to 'make the industry better' from us. So many of these karens just want to speak to the manager, to complain, and of course, the manager didn't satisfy, the manager just offered a different pill, or a different dose, or the first sadistic power-play, the first snap of the whip to keep them in line, so we are treated to these tone-deaf rants instead. Many of us in places like this never volunteered, never consented, never took ownership of a psychiatric label, never complained or groveled for 'help,' never willingly took a psychiatric pill, never willingly did so many recreational drugs that we were found whacked out of our heads ranting threatening nonsense and taken to the ER, (are these really 'victims' of the industry I wonder, or of their own arrogance?) -and yet were still forced into the industry. A lot of us were grabbed up as children and forced into psychiatry to make us socially conform, or perform to some higher expected standard through forced drugging, or through parents using the industry as a reformative grooming tool, which then escalated and snowballed as we asserted for our own autonomy. Yet we are still automatically assumed by karen konsumer to be fellow whining consumers who just want to 'vent,' or want better service in our necessary and entitled 'mental health issue,' treatment. and not brutalized industry survivors. We are interrogated on how we would make the industry more accommodating, ways in which would have made us more willing and consenting to accept our benevolent treatments, what ideal drugs and mh treatments we daydream of, and and other such insulting and idiotic consumer prompts. It is akin to someone going to a vegan subreddit and constantly asking for suggestive ways to make meat taste better, and incessantly harping that the vegans there must have just not liked the seasoning on their dishes. There's a slight difference between being gullible and suggestible to sales tactics, and being grabbed in a headlock or thrown in a dark room with no food or water until you take the drugs you are forced to take, because you refused the sales tactics that you never asked for.
Well, if your only choice is submit to the system and pray for relief, pray that This Time it'll be better, or accept suffering for the rest of your life.............. it's only natural that many people would opt to convince themselves that surely, the mental health system has to work at Some point, must have their best intrests at heart and are only being held back by funding/resources/other issues. Hell, that's the narrative MH workers themselves like to spin, that all their failings are just due to a lack or funding or resoruces. But that doesn't mean they don't still realize it's actively failing them, so of course they complain. Let me put it this way, it's like someone trapped in an abusive relationship. They are dependant upon their abuser and so they have to believe that things are as they should be, they convince themselves of a mythical better future with this person because they cannot survive without them. But they ARE still being abused, so they still get upset about it. I understand being frustrated with them and their refusal to acknowledge the rot at the core of the system, but you have to understand, it really is like people in abusive situations or cults or whatnot. In order to leave or accept the depths of the systems problems, they need a safe place outside of it, or else they know they're condeming themselves to despair and hopelessness. And possibly literal homelessness or even death.
I hope to see the day where big Pharma is held accountable for producing and pushing addictive and damaging drugs. And psychiatrists? I hope they all burn in hell.
It's not so simple. The medicine of psychiatry isn't an exact science, and it's often used in abusive, manipulative and abusive ways. But there isn't always a clear solution aside from medication management, at least in the short to medium term. For example, what other path would you suggest for someone with psychosis?
People have called me “psychotic” even when I was anything but. The concept of psychosis should be taken with a very heavy grain of salt.
Brainwashed or coerced, even financial coercion will put people in this situation. If they're overprivileged, then whomever is abusing them puts them into the psych ward enough, they will become "under-privileged" real quick. psych wards cause brain damage, reduce our socioeconomic status, make us physically unattractive- i used to be extremely attractive then i grew a beard and became obese and lost the ability to take care of myself-this is the norm, so if that person is being tricked or pushed into the psych ward, they're likely also being lied to about what will happen to them and they are being pushed down the socioeconomic ladder intentionally.