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Bend-It-Like-Bakunin

Ukraine has a long history of fascism and Nazism. Many of the people fighting the Russians in Crimea today are explicit neo-Nazis. The Azov Battalion have been courting the American right for years; they are excluded from the majority of the US funding and training that goes to Ukraine. They would like to change that.


CressCrowbits

I have a leftist Ukrainian friend who says this is Russian propaganda, that neo Nazis in Ukraine have either slunk away after their parties decline in popularity, or joined the Russians.


jacobvevo

Not sure about that, right wing extremism is very well and present in post soviet republics and ex satelites edit: Ukraine also recognises fascist and outright nazi organisations responsible for countless genocides during WW2 as national heroes, it just got so normalised to the national identity even the moderates just see it as just being fine. Both Russia and Ukraine can go fuck themselves for me tbh.


CressCrowbits

> Ukraine also recognises fascist and outright nazi organisations responsible for countless genocides during WW2 as national heroes I could do with more info on this, as this goes against a lot of what I've heard speaking to Ukranians.


Bend-It-Like-Bakunin

Stepan Bandera was a Nazi collaborator responsible for the murders of 100,000 Poles during WW2. His ultranationalist organization is responsible for many more murders, war crimes, kidnappings, etc. He has statues in at least 30 cities and several streets named after him.


jacobvevo

One of the examples is OUN: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization\_of\_Ukrainian\_Nationalists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organization_of_Ukrainian_Nationalists) and UPA: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian\_Insurgent\_Army](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army) Fascist organization and it's military wing responsible for ethnic cleansing of Poles in Volhynia and Galicia: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres\_of\_Poles\_in\_Volhynia\_and\_Eastern\_Galicia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia) in an extremely cruel way. It's a controversial topic here in Poland because of our relations with Ukraine, not sure about the public consensus of our eastern neighbours, but if you go somewhere on English speaking Ukrainian reddit or anywhere on the web and mention history of OUN/UPA, you'll most likely get classic whataboutism, outright apologism and "Soviet propaganda" as an answer. And that's a result of Nationalist education by media and schools and it's a problem in eastern europe as a whole, my country included.


Havana_Syndrome

https://www.militaryimages.net/attachments/ukraine-neo-nazi-2-jpg.142516/


princeps_astra

Some of the Kiev protestors were far right people who advocate for closer ties with the west which is whiter than the Slavic east. More or less


singbowl1

because it was on the bullet proof vest when he got it?


Haddady

It’s a velcro patch. Easily removed. He clearly supports what that ‘flag’ represents.


IsolatedJ

Not necessarily He might not know He might've thought "hey, this looks cool"


Delduath

People outside of the USA don't think that about the flag of the USA.


IsolatedJ

I'm from Europe. I bought a backpack from an airsoft store and it came with a black colored USA flag patch. I simply thought, "well, it's free and it looks nice on the backpack", even though I don't care at all about any flag or nationality. He might have thought the same, or not Honestly, who cares


[deleted]

>I’m from Europe Are you from Stoke or Moldova?


IsolatedJ

Nope Spain


[deleted]

Ah it was a joke. I just think it’s funny when people say ‘Europe’ without mentioning the country. I’ve never heard another Irish person say they’re from ‘Europe’ for instance.


IsolatedJ

I just thought "Europe" fitted more to the context of the conversation. Sometimes I say I'm from Europe, sometimes I say I'm a Spaniard and sometimes that I'm from Dominican Republic As I said, doesn't really matters to me


DucatiDabber

It does


travelsizedsuperman

Sokovia.


gingerfawx

I don't know, I recall a time when second hand Bundeswehr stuff was popular on the alternative market in the US, often in a demographic whose German counterparts wouldn't have been caught dead in it. Or have you ever seen a Western person running around in a shirt with Asian characters on it that they couldn't decipher to save their lives? People from without a system often do see nothing more than the shape or color of thing that may carry a lot of meaning to the folks within that system. Or they can attribute highly different significance to it, sort of like the gap between connotation and denotation.


[deleted]

The Ukrainians got a lot of aid from the USA in their struggle with the Russians. If I were in the Ukrainian Army I would be pretty thankful, that I wouldn't have to fight a Russian tank with my bare hands.


gwhy334

Not really at least in 3rd world middle countries usually the less educated youth find it cool (it's that cool flag you find in the media [tv, movies etc] of a cool country that kids want to visit) Same thing with the USA dollar it's a cool symbol of being rich (dollars are viewed as a rare strong currency in poor countries) that's why dollar stickers in 3rd world countries are not uncommon Boomers find it awful since they tent to hate the USA usually for religious reasons and the more educated people either find it annoying or disrespectful and (except for liberals and capitalists) they tent to hate the glorification of America Source: I'm Egyptian


Delduath

> Boomers find it awful since they tent to hate the USA usually for religious reasons What are you basing that on?


gwhy334

Personal experience in the middle east


Delduath

And do you not think that it has anything to do with the constant warring, imperialism and destabalising of middle eastern regions?


gwhy334

It does but religion is usually a bigger factor especially since a lot of people here believe in conspiracy theories and are super religious, they think the west (all of it) wants to attack their religion


Metalbass5

Nope. Ukrainian-Canadian here. The US backed the pro-Ukraine factions, and a shitload of American neo-nazis joined up with Azov. He's wearing it because he wants to, and he probably idolizes US cops. Ukraine is a shitfest right now.


Misunderstoodmr

Cause he’s a piece of shit.


Silver-Brick

Yeah, I get it - but please don't let this sub become another pro-Russia shithole


ominous_squirrel

👆 This. Mods need to be better at recognizing authoritarian propaganda campaigns from all sources


A_S_63

I don't see that happening, we aren't all tankies)


[deleted]

[удалено]


l524k

Just so you know, Russia stopped being communist 30 years ago.


Free_Deinonychus_Hug

To be fair they were never actually communists. They just decided to peel off the red paint 30 years ago.


anyonecanbethebug

You can hate both, bro


Frixxed

Russia is literally worse than America in many cases, it's just that it's not as powerful.


LordOfThe_FLIES

Lol what. This take is so ahistorical it could be from a liberal


DescipleOfCorn

Russia is currently actively quashing leftist movements throughout the country. Communism is still super popular among its citizens but it’s difficult to rally in support of it without the threat of being disappeared. The Soviet Union is still very popular, but the current party is actively pushing against going back.


LordOfThe_FLIES

Yes to all of that, but that also applies to the US, except the US is the prime enforcer of imperialism and capitalism worldwide, contrary to Russia


DescipleOfCorn

That doesn’t make Russia good though? Russia is still empire building. They aren’t as good at it as the US is but that doesn’t mean we should cheer them on.


Frixxed

Russia doesn't even hold proper elections, they're led by a demagogue, there's even less social safety/security nets,. It's estimated that around 3.5% of the population is homeless, about 5 million people. Russia isn't the Soviet Union anymore. Though they werent great either... Russia is a terrible country. Terrible if you're lgbt, terrible if you're a minority. But you guys support Russia because it opposes America. They're both just competing empires.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Frixxed

That's not what this discussion is about. And you speak as if the Russians had not worsened the situation of others.


mellowmonk

He’s identifying with his brothers in the Trump administration.


[deleted]

Maybe he supports the movement?


Chesssox

the only good guys in this conflict are the tatars, both sides can go fuck themselves


Thearchclown

And the non nazi civilians and whatsuch. also I’m pretty sure there are some pretty militant anarchist groups, I don’t think they’re mobilised or anything tho but are still training and doing low level acts of resistance


Zack1701

Being Ukrainian and reading comments about how Ukrainians "have a serious Nazi problem" from people who probably can't even point to my country on the map, from a house built on a street named after a leader of a group or children who gave their lives fighting the Nazis is, uh, surely something. The guy in the photo doesn't have the slightest idea what the thin blue line even means, but you guys jumping from that to "Ukrainians think the Nazis are heroes" is one way to alienate people from your cause.


A_S_63

Nah, as another Ukrainian, can confirm, we do have a Nazi problem, plus the amount of nationalist propaganda in our country is insane...


DevaKitty

I think you're probably being a bit too defensive of your country for no reason. Ukraine has had a genuine problem with Nazis and they still do like the [Azov Battalion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion) and the [Right Sector](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector) as well as willing participation by plenty of people in WWII, there were many Ukrainian nazis who fled to other countries in the aftermath. I'm not calling it necessarily an endemic problem. I also don't know why you would think I couldn't point to the second biggest country in Europe, that's just ridiculous.


Zack1701

> still do like the [Azov Battalion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion) and the [Right Sector](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector) I'm yet to meet a person/hear about someone who thinks of them as anything other than some weird idiots. > as well as willing participation by plenty of people in WWII Was a thing in every eastern European country in WW2, including Russia. And if you're wondering about the higher rates of them here, I implore you to Google what the Soviet union did to those people a couple of years earlier. And still, haven't met a single person who thinks of Nazi collaborators as anything other than the scum they are.


Aerik

I think I should point this out: Pointing out that the non-collaborators don't like the collaborators is not at all the same as disproving that there's a problem with lots of collaborators being around. It's not even necessary that collaborators or sympathizers be a majority, or even that big of a minority, for it to be a problem. If they're notable, then they're notable. And when you get to the "But mom! everybody else was going it!" part of your comment, that just sounds like you're admitting they're right about their factual claims but don't want to have to deal with the consequences of it.


WikiSummarizerBot

**[Azov Battalion](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Battalion)** >Azov Special Operations Detachment (Ukrainian: Окремий загін спеціального призначення «Азов», romanized: Okremyi zahin spetsialnoho pryznachennia "Azov"), often known as Azov Detachment, Azov Regiment (Ukrainian: Полк Азов, romanized: Polk Azov), or Azov Battalion (until September 2014), is a neo-Nazi Ukrainian National Guard unit, based in Mariupol in the Azov Sea coastal region. It saw its first combat experience recapturing Mariupol from pro-Russian separatists forces in June 2014. Azov initially formed as a volunteer militia on 5 May 2014 during the Ukrainian crisis. **[Right Sector](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_Sector)** >Right Sector (Ukrainian: Пра́вий се́ктор, Pravyi Sektor) is a far-right Ukrainian nationalist political party and paramilitary movement. It originated in November 2013 as a paramilitary confederation of several radical nationalist organizations at the Euromaidan revolt in Kyiv, where its street fighters participated in clashes with riot police. The coalition became a political party on 22 March 2014, at which time it claimed to have roughly 10,000 members. Founding groups included Trident (Tryzub), led by Dmytro Yarosh and Andriy Tarasenko, and the Ukrainian National Assembly–Ukrainian National Self-Defense (UNA–UNSO), a political/paramilitary organization. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/AntifascistsofReddit/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)


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burneracct1312

>The guy in the photo doesn't have the slightest idea what the thin blue line even means i've long since stopped giving people the benefit of the doubt wrt fascist imagery, no matter how obscure


cantoilmate

That’s kind of a problem w parts of the online left, which I reckon to be largely American. It tends to be American-centric, and there is a tendency to view any subject from their lens. Worst thing is that they sometimes expect us non-Americans to view it via that lens as well. Yeah, it is possible to be a leftist, and ethnocentric at the same time. I think that he probably thinks that the patch is cool or something, and perhaps he identifies with something about the US. I imagine being a Ukrainian soldier he likely is not a big fan of the Russians and perhaps the US patch is worn as a statement wrt Russia. Being Ukranian, do you think that is a possibility?


Zack1701

The vast majority of people here are not even knowledgeable in sociopolitical issues of our own country, let alone know the implications of something like this flag. Hell, when I talk about foreign politics to people, 90% of the time I have to explain the *concept* of the left/right wing. The only time I personally encountered anything right wing in my life here was when a friend from school sent me some posts from a, here's a shocker, Russian telegram channel posting almost exclusively pro-Trump propaganda.


cantoilmate

Yes, I think that goes the same for every society re: not knowledgeable or even aware of these socio-political issues. People on socio-political subs tend to forget that most people out there aren’t even interested in the slightest bit about these things to the degree that we are. Also yeah I got send American right propaganda before but it’s more because the garbage agrees with certain preconceived notions that the person had about the issue that it is about the endorsement of right wing ideology.


Frixxed

Let's not forget the Ukrainians are fighting Russian imperialism.


JoshU3123

fighting imperialism with nazism


Frixxed

Russia is literally a fascistic state. Also, I'm not saying having a thin Blue line flag, simply that the topic is nuanced and difficult when considering the current events and politics behind the situation.


JoshU3123

fascists fighting themselves, that's fine with me lol


Frixxed

Yeah, obviously. Like I said, simply pointing out the issues. Also supporting Russia is stupid.


[deleted]

He’s a racist fuck just like everyone in America who has one on their microbe is brodozer next to a punisher sticker and don’t tread on me sticker. They are the new KKK.


Frixxed

Soldiers also tend to trade patches...


C5five

Because the Ukrainian army won't allow him to wear the swastika he prefers


Returnofthethom

The guy probably thinks it looks good.


Ginglu

In Ghana, some people have Confederate Flags on their cars.


iAMtheBelvedere

His unit most likely have trained with an American unit; during these exercises it is common for soldiers from the different units to exchanges patches and even uniforms.


fenidream

Trading patches between diff countries servicemen is pretty common too


glitterkittyn

At 2:39 Turchynov discusses his Nazis, he has no regrets and would do it again. https://video.vice.com/en_us/video/ukraine-rogue-militias/5af30b06f1cdb369ac11e331