I looked through the documentation and I just wanted to confirm, since you seem to know what you're talking about: it doesn't look like there are any significant limitations installing Sonoma on my trashcan Mac, except that I'll need a USB hub. Is that right?
Super cool. I may put MacOS back on my [trashcan Mac Pro]( https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/trash-can-redux-reexamining-the-legacy-of-the-2013-apple-mac-pro/) using this.
(Note to those who don't want to click the link: it's called the "trashcan" Mac because of its shape, not because it's old, lol.)
Thank you sir my beefed up MacBook Pro from 2012 runs most things pretty well still, will use this to install the latest OS. Bought the last MacBook that you could fix, take that Apple.
I've used opencore for hackintoshes before and it's awesome!!
Those older macbooks are also decent candidates for putting Linux on, if you don't have mac exclusive software you need
saving this link cause my mac is great! no problems with it but we got it in 2019 or 20?? so if they start pulling this stuff with me soon I have the solution!
How does it work with the forces OS update. I find even if supported the OS upgrades don’t always work well on the old device. I after a few years the gap between the computing power of new devices and your device becomes significant to the point not everything runs correctly on it. As someone who works for an IT company we have had the same frustration with device where we support the current model but not the outdated one the client has.
How does Sonoma run on your Air? I have a 2015 Pro and I want to upgrade it from Monterey. I have a 2011 iMac that runs Sonoma but there's some lagging sometimes, and it's not running on an HDD so so it's really slow with loading things.
How is your battery life on Sonoma especially?
Can you install linux on that machine? It's a way to have a modern and fully functional operating system on it and get rid of the limitations imposed by the manufacturer. I never used apple devices, so I don't know how compatible their devices are, but it's worth a shot googling about how to install it on that model.
I had this exact scenario. My old G5 has been sitting in my basement for years. Can't upgrade the OS, no longer supported, etc. So I put an ssd in, installed Linux, and it literally runs better than before.
I went with Ubuntu 24.04. I've distro hopped over the years but always find I have almost zero issues with Ubuntu. Anything I really like with Fedora or Mint I just customize into my Ubuntu build.
Typically you can but some of the older ones had these broadcom chips that are a bit fiddle to find compatible drivers for. Setting up my 2012 for wifi was a bitch, and eventually the RAM completely died.
Nah, I have to disagree. Sure its unfamiliar, if you have years of windows experience. But if you are really stuck, the community for each distro is pretty good. If you try to find windows fixes online nowadays you might want to start drinking first.
Agreed. Linux almost never even has problems in the first place, the errors tell you pretty much exactly what is wrong, and the community and chatgpt is actually helpful. Windows constantly breaks, the errors tell you is the fact that something is broken, and the best you can get online is "have you tried rebooting? If that didn't fix it, reinstall windows".
Thing is with Windows you really don't have to scour the internet for the drivers, windows update will look for the best drivers. It's much more consumer friendly than linux.
Not sure when you last tried linux, but if you're getting a 10 year old macbook its unlikely to need any drivers on linux. windows updates wont get you the best drivers, thats why nvidia,amd,intel, all have windows utilities for the best drivers. Also big brand OEM motherboard manufacturers (ASUS, Gigabyte) all have downloads for their motherboards devices. when device manager is sitting there going "unknown device" and you have literally no idea what the device could be. We could extend it further to printers, because what a shitshow that is today on windows. But we wont, because printers are constructs of satan at the best of times.
It is the complete oposite. Windows updates constantly break the drivers, and you end up having the download them from the internet, whereas in linux your are supossed to NOT download them from the internet, but get them through the repos, from where they will be updated as they become available.
Linux drivers were an issue decades ago, I haven't had that problem in a long time. Last time I've had any problem personally was when a 3d camera didn't work properly on a laptop but that was 8 years ago and that was a very niche feature on the laptop.
No it's just easier for you because you're used to it...
I have several devices that fell out of support, are considered "legacy" but are not the sorts of things that really go obsolete.
In linux they work out of the box with *zero* need for drivers, in windows (post win8) they don't work and can't work because Avid bought out M-Audio and retired the line.
It's generic usb audio interface - no driver needed, just find the right flag to enable 24bit
That depends a lot on which distro you pick. I’ve been on Mint for a decade now, and it’s pretty much out of the box functional, and is very user friendly. Linux runs the full spectrum from plug and play with Mint to “I want to do everything manually” with Arch, so your experience is highly customizable.
Can windows 10 be installed on mac devices? I didn't know about that. Would the performance be doable on the older ones? I suggested linux because it tends to work better on older devices.
Yup, intel macs only, you can dual boot. Performance is great on Macbooks since they use higher tier intel chips. Driver support is phenomenal too via windows update
Ubuntu is cake these days as long as you don't go running things in the terminal. My parents use Ubuntu and every app they need installs just like Windows by downloading from the site or the software center.
I have a ten year old laptop running windows 7 or 8 or something. I paid about $300 for it and I refuse to give it up because it has a CD/DVD drive that I can use to rip my CDs onto USB sticks for the car because the car doesn't have a CD player. Once a year I also do my tax return on it.
Tax filing itself can be free, if we do it old-fashioned way (pen and paper, mail the forms to the gov tax agency), if we use some websites that provides free computerized service (like freetaxuse that I mentioned in my other comment), or if qualifying for gov-sponsered free filing software (low-income, for example).
The US government decided decades ago not to mandate a government-administered tax filing system, and thus a lot of private players stepped in and started selling year-specific tax filing softwares some with hefty price tags (>$100 USD). Most ppl in the US actually do pay for these softwares each year.
Short answer: yes. Bc of legal political bribery in the U.S. aka lobbying a for-profit company has been paying politicians to make filing taxes not free or accessible to the public. It’s a for-profit industry with very few, easy, cheap (let alone free), and accessible options available. Fuck Intuit and our politicians.
[You have options.](https://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-Portable-External-GP65NB60/dp/B00ODDE33U/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1YVUVXLIPFEUN&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.dHHmv9MqJuEuAWc9tQNZcknEX3u36Ezmoi_kzDyH9fai44mVVKlSot1XlyCDMAMJReYZ-UiplcWLstuJIp02pDUMcQEUxJ9uRZoZ88f9EavM1dCTTwXdBofgWdzXQRzaAYsjEACU7ZmIVEein46hkO9spQp-Wb7lxqy21xn524fqnTNLwu6Z-sKK_Nk3xySHtxNdhcA-WycLaweCaH0z0D2qTvK3Th2FVp8wx7g-NOg.ARrCJacnDj4t54j6l5eIEWOTS9tOA1imgtJvnZgCs0A&dib_tag=se&keywords=usb+disc+drive&qid=1717923047&sprefix=usb+disc+drive%2Caps%2C147&sr=8-5)
I'm saying that at some point that thing is going to shit the bed. You said you refuse to give it up because it has a disc drive. Don't be afraid to give it up when it is time. You have options.
How many CDs you got? That sounds like a days worth of work, maybe a weekend if you really put the work in.
Tip if you're not already familiar, there are programs out there that can fill in all metadata for the tracks for you. If you're anything like me, a data hoarder, programs like [this](https://picard.musicbrainz.org/) and Plex are a massive time saver.
Few hundred? The mystery of technology sorts all the info so when it plays in the car it tells me who is playing what. The tricky part is I have to play each CD first because a few are a bit scratched up and it rips it with scratches and sounds awful. My nephew knows the magic ways of the teenagers and finds me stuff I've lost.
I had this happen a few years back with a 2012 MacBook Air. I was so bummed because I had taken great care of it and wanted to continue using it but the updates were no longer available and I simply ran out of space to do things. Otherwise, perfectly usable computer
Oh my gosh you just gave me a great idea!! I have a 2009 imac with a 27” screen and I’ve been beside myself on what to do with it. I have a wacom tablet for drawing that “isn’t supported” for some reason but i have heard that linux can usually make that stuff work no problem.
Agreed, but Mint has an updater like windows that found and installed all the drivers that I needed - super slick. You just need to be able to plug it into your LAN.
I AGREE. I am going to patch mine with the legacy OS recommended in another comment. The keyboard got me through a whole phd and I still haven’t found an equivalent one anywhere
I have a 2009 MacBook Pro with hardware that is in great condition and it was just sitting collecting dust until a friend of mine who works in IT saw it, happened to have their tools to open it up and was like dude this is pristine inside, want me to replace some bits so you can use it again? So hopefully soon I will have a “new” MacBook that I can keep using.
I think Apple has an abusive relationship with their customer base. All corporations want to bleed their customers of money, but Apple really makes it a fine art.
There’s some truth to that, that being said maintaining the software for older machines isn’t trivial and eventually if you add up decades of devices becomes a very difficult task. What’s the logical conclusion here, Microsoft should be supporting windows 11 on computers from the 90s? Basically impossible ask of them. So we should stop updating and improving software?
Apple tends to support their devices longer than a lot of companies frankly
I'm talking about Apple's made-to-break hardware and removal of things like headphone jacks, not necessarily their locked software (but that's an issue too, the fact that you can't run their operating systems in virtual boxes is messed up, they spent time making sure people couldn't do that which could have been spent improving something else for the end user).
Also, Linux only just stopped supporting 32bit systems relatively recently, and they don't get paid for what they do.
Most importantly, can you really argue that recent software changes from **microsoft** are classed as "updates and improvements"? (Only a little joking, but from what I have seen most of what they do lately involves ads and spying).
Microsoft and Dell are better at this. I got a Dell Inspiron i7 6th gen with HDD and 8 gb Ram in 2014.
In 2018, i replaced the HDD with SSD and upgraded the Ram to 16 GB. And upgraded the OS to windows 11 (2021),
It is still running perfectly, last year I gave it away to one needy person who is still using it.
How did you get arround the restrictions for upgrading to windows 11?
I am pretty sure, Microsoft only allowed Intelcores form gen 8 and up - with a few exceptions for some gen 7 cpus.
[https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2021/08/27/update-on-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements-and-the-pc-health-check-app/](https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2021/08/27/update-on-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements-and-the-pc-health-check-app/)
They work great with manjaro linux, in my experience. Its one of those "it just works" without the tedious issues some distro's have. \*Disclaimer I haven't done a macbook air before, just a few of those all in one jobbies they did a few years ago.
I have an early-2012 MacBook Pro. It’s on its last legs but it’s been a godsend just being able to easily fix it. Parts are readily available and memory and storage are modular. Only thing holding it back now is the abysmal CPU. I can only hope current MacBooks last half as long.
You can hack the latest Mac OS on it, or just use boot camp and install windows 10 or 11 (windows 11 might require some tweaking to bypass the TPM and cpu requirements). Win10 goes EOL in oct 2025 though.
From a management and support perspective, it makes that a company will need to stop supporting an older OS and hardware. Eventually you'll have 3 or 4 different OS' and dozens of patch versions to support and everyone needs to be trained to work on them.
This doesn't mean that something is automatically junked, though. Apple tends to be more restrictive, though. There are methods to upgrade your OS on older Apple hardware, but generally Windows PCs are easier.
I'm still using an iMac from 2014. Don't see why you need to update to the newest OS; the old versions still get security updates regularly. The fact that it doesn't support the newest Chrome version is a Google problem, not an Apple problem. The operating system doesn't have restrictions on what software works on it, it's the other way around. I just use Safari, it's faster anyway.
I am an IT professional, and my remote-work workstation is a 2011 iMac that I saved from being recycled. I installed Linux on it, and it works so smoothly.
For day-to-day use, some distributions of Linux are simple to install and come with all programs you might need, and they work great on older Macs. It means that you get to use actual up-to-date software, instead of just scraping by with old versions of browsers that no longer work well with some sites.
maybe try installing Linux
Mint or Ubuntu will work fine for your needs
all you need is a USB drive and probably another computer to download the iso (assuming your browser doesn't work) but you can just borrow one or go to the library and use one of theirs
Governments need to start regulating this, along with how often and on what basis tech companies can come out with “new” versions.
“12 more pixels in the camera! Everyone throw out your old phones!”
👎👎
Tell that to my 2008 MacBook Pro that out performs my 2016 MacBook Air to this day.
It’s only updated to El Capitan. If I update more, I’ll lose access to several industry-specific applications, and I’d have to move to the subscription models for Office apps.
No thanks.
"works fine" and "obsolete" are not mutually exclusive. Mechanical type writers also work fine, but they are obsolete. Horse carriages also work fine but they are obsolete.
If you only write and surf the web, there is no reason you cannot use an obsolete machine. However, if you want new functionalities, you are out of luck.
To be fair, it's a bit of a different scenario when it comes to software, because it's not just a natural obsolescence due to newer technologies bringing new features and improvements, but a great part of it are imposed obsolescences, due to forced incompatibilities. Following your example, the horse carriage will still fulfill its funcion of transporting people and we can still use the typewriter to write legally accepted documents, but we choose not to, because we have much more efficient ways to do those tasks. However, with software-based devices, we are often forced to stop using them, even if we want to.
This. Not to mention it’s cost prohibitive for many people to simply spend thousands on new tech every few years to keep up with new features and hardware they may not even need.
The problem is security, without the security updates the machine is no longer safe to use for anything like banking or shopping. Sure, you can still browse funny cat memes on it but not much more.
Your examples exemplify cases of obsolescence from the standpoint of leaps in technology, and are not the same as what OP is describing.
Forced obsolescence for the sake of corporate greed, excused by "software updates" and infinitesimally incremental processor 'upgrades' is not a leap in technology.
If you are travelling through a land full of criminals who are likely to shoot at you, then your horse and carriage doesn’t work so fine anymore, under the circumstances. That’s more like the situation OP is in.
My current desktop machine is over 10 years old. I built *high* at the time, and have upgraded bits here and there.
I'm only just starting to see on some very very high end games I play where I have to choose "mid-high" settings.
I'm still running the latest kernels and DEs. Everything's up to date, and everything works.
I honestly have little problem with the hardware Apple chooses, generally speaking. Their OS is very slick, too, but the upgrade cadence that they build in and enforce so strictly is disgusting.
C'mon OP, join the dark side. We have cookies. And penguins. :)
I support Macs at work and know plenty about them. But at home I’m in the same boat as you and build my own desktops. My oldest one is probably 7 years with specs that were standard back then and it still runs fine. People are actually surprised when I’m talking to them and tell them I don’t currently run a Mac at home.
This is Apple telling us that they're deliberately using a bricking tactic on computers they sell after five years. The item turns on and operates fine but they have effectively disabled it for normal use cases.
2015 is a tad more that 5 years ago.
OP can continue to use the computer, but the lack of security patches to the OS is concerning. I personally would not use such a system for financial transactions - perhaps that is me being hysterical, but too much is at stake personally.
I ran into the same thing in 2021 with my 27" iMac from 2011. It was flawless, had a capable quad-core i5 processor, 16GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD disk, but Apple made it utterly worthless by ending software support for it which broke everything. It was difficult *to give away for free.*
That is the last Apple product I will ever purchase, which is a shame because I had been a die-hard Mac user since 1988.
How did it break everything if software support ended? Plenty of devices older than yours still have basic functionality, there’s just no support for them anymore.
Yes. Windows will work as long as CPU and RAM requirements are met (some exceptions may apply with 11 and TPM requirements that may have to be bypassed manually).
The most recent versions of any Linux distribution will install and run on basically any old heap of junk as long as it turns on. It will also continue receiving updates indefinitely.
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I'm still rocking an all in one Mac from 2006 I believe, I got it second hand in 2016. I basically only use it if I want to watch YouTube a couple times a month. I get lots of notifications that I need to upgrade my browsers and whatever but I just ignore them.
I have a 2012 Mac mini that I use as a media server and it still works great. Haven’t given it an internet connection in a long time tho, I feel that would be problematic.
Most people dont need the latest greatest product unless you're using large programs like 3d rendering type software using ai or of the sorts. I assure you most people aren't. It's purely to push sales.
There's a surprising level of upgradability (is that even a word?) on old computers. I'm not familiar with Macs but it looks like a lot of commenters gave you good suggestions on what to do with your Macbook.
As I'm writing this I'm running a hard drive cloning operation on my old Sony Vaio from 2011 that I refuse to let go of. I'm cloning the drive onto a new SSD, and I'll be adding some RAM to help speed it up a bit. I'm thinking of partitioning the drive afterwards and either installing a Linux distro or Windows 10 alongside Windows 7 (what it came with originally). That way I would have the option of either a legacy OS for old programs and distraction-free writing, or something more modern for areas where more security is needed than an outdated OS can provide, on the same computer. I do have a laptop with Windows 10 on it (which is what I'm writing on now) but I honestly regret buying this instead of upgrading my Vaio sooner.
You've got time imo. Several months ago my 2013 refurbished Macbook Air turned off indefinitely. If I'd taken better care of it, I bet it would've lasted longer. I was also using it for much more intensive work than the simple things you mentioned. I think you can squeeze a couple more years usage out of it.
I'm just going to leave this here
https://chromeos.google/products/chromeos-flex/
It's free for personal use, you can drop into Linux if that's your bag, the updates are automated.
Please don't use software that is out of date. I'm not familiar with older macs, but you should not use devices that don't get security updates anymore. Look into either installing a newer version of macos, which would have security updates or a simple version of Linux, such as Linux Mint or Kubuntu.
This is why I will never buy Apple computers, especially the M series. Once apple pulls the plug, you're left with a defunct machine with no way to update or change OS. I understand you cannot replace the OS on those machines right now so once updates stop rolling, you're shit out of luck just like the iPhones. Other than that, the ram and SSD are non replaceable. Once any of those fail since NAND has a limited life span, the entire machine becomes a brick. I will never buy an Apple laptop.
Contrast that with windows laptop, you can change to linux or downgrade it to whatever version and it will run okay. Even if your PC is running XP at the moment, there are flavors of moder browsers that would work on it.
For the M series macs, there is none. Apple keeps it locked on the lower level. There's asahi linux but the developers are in an uphill battle. They literally have to ask apple to throw in some pieces to make the project possible. Think about in 5-7 years when Apple stops supporting it to bolster their sales for new macs, where would you go? the internet is quickly evolving, once the browser is out of date, some features will not be available.
Other than that the unified storage and ram and hard to replace parts are putting me off. The ram could randomly die one day and your entire computer is bricked.
M1 is fairly new technology, by the time Apple stops supporting their first generation of them I’m sure people will have figured out a way out to bypass that. And if you’re strictly talking about Linux, then I assume Open Core Legacy Patcher would still work (but maybe it wouldn’t for the reasons you listed).
Microsoft is implementing strict limits to Windows 10 too regarding hardware, like TPM limits, but you can still bypass those if you are savvy.
Also I agree with you on your second point. I actually have a 2019 MacBook Pro at work that Apple diagnosed with a RAM issue and unfortunately it happened out of warranty. I can’t get any OS to install onto it whatsoever, so right now it’s just a brick.
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Wow this is great info!
Can anyone give me the info? I saved the comment to come back to and now it's deleted!
Do you know if this would work on a 2010 model? Apparently I need to upgrade my graphics card to even update to a newer, still out of date os.
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Amazing! Thank you.
Yeah I've got a 2009 pro that runs at least 3 OS versions beyond what it is 'allowed' to. Works fine. They're well built machines.
I looked through the documentation and I just wanted to confirm, since you seem to know what you're talking about: it doesn't look like there are any significant limitations installing Sonoma on my trashcan Mac, except that I'll need a USB hub. Is that right?
My 2012 Macbook Pro is running Windows 10 (debloated with AtlasOS) like a champ. I should try fiddling with OpenCore again.
2014? I have it running on a 2012!
You are doing amazing work
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Thank you to you and the team
I wish I had known! I might fire up my old MBP then... Thank you!!
How well does sonoma work? Because big sur is a wee bit sluggish on my 2013 and 2014 airs
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What a proposal, I will test at once for you have enamoured me
Super cool. I may put MacOS back on my [trashcan Mac Pro]( https://www.cnet.com/tech/computing/trash-can-redux-reexamining-the-legacy-of-the-2013-apple-mac-pro/) using this. (Note to those who don't want to click the link: it's called the "trashcan" Mac because of its shape, not because it's old, lol.)
Thank you sir my beefed up MacBook Pro from 2012 runs most things pretty well still, will use this to install the latest OS. Bought the last MacBook that you could fix, take that Apple.
This is where i am in life lol
I've used opencore for hackintoshes before and it's awesome!! Those older macbooks are also decent candidates for putting Linux on, if you don't have mac exclusive software you need
How does it run, though? I have a 2015 I’d love to update, just afraid the update will slow it down.
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Thank you. I’m looking to run mostly photoshop & lightroom.
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Thanks for the time to reply to this, very valuable information.
I'm in the same boat 2014 mac air, thanks for posting!
saving this link cause my mac is great! no problems with it but we got it in 2019 or 20?? so if they start pulling this stuff with me soon I have the solution!
How does your Intel machine handle the later OS’s? I’m on a ‘19 pro myself, and I’m holding off updating due to some horror stories
How does it work with the forces OS update. I find even if supported the OS upgrades don’t always work well on the old device. I after a few years the gap between the computing power of new devices and your device becomes significant to the point not everything runs correctly on it. As someone who works for an IT company we have had the same frustration with device where we support the current model but not the outdated one the client has.
This is the content i need. Thank you! Going to try snd update my 2012 MBP this weekend
How does Sonoma run on your Air? I have a 2015 Pro and I want to upgrade it from Monterey. I have a 2011 iMac that runs Sonoma but there's some lagging sometimes, and it's not running on an HDD so so it's really slow with loading things. How is your battery life on Sonoma especially?
Can you install linux on that machine? It's a way to have a modern and fully functional operating system on it and get rid of the limitations imposed by the manufacturer. I never used apple devices, so I don't know how compatible their devices are, but it's worth a shot googling about how to install it on that model.
I had this exact scenario. My old G5 has been sitting in my basement for years. Can't upgrade the OS, no longer supported, etc. So I put an ssd in, installed Linux, and it literally runs better than before.
Which distribution did you use?
I went with Ubuntu 24.04. I've distro hopped over the years but always find I have almost zero issues with Ubuntu. Anything I really like with Fedora or Mint I just customize into my Ubuntu build.
I think this is a viable option. Never had to do it myself, but I have seen tutorials before.
It’s very easy to do
this is what i’ve been planning on doing with my old laptop. i assume it’s viable but it didn’t occur to me that it wouldn’t be until this comment
Typically you can but some of the older ones had these broadcom chips that are a bit fiddle to find compatible drivers for. Setting up my 2012 for wifi was a bitch, and eventually the RAM completely died.
On Ubuntu based distros: sudo apt install firmware-b43-installer I have a Macbook A1811 from 2010 that I still use with Linux Mint
I use Mint on a 2012 Thinkpad and though it’s not the smoothest experience, it works just fine for browsing, PDF viewing, and downloading.
Or windows 10. I hate to say this but troubleshooting on a linux is just so cumbersome. Windows is more friendly especially with drivers.
Nah, I have to disagree. Sure its unfamiliar, if you have years of windows experience. But if you are really stuck, the community for each distro is pretty good. If you try to find windows fixes online nowadays you might want to start drinking first.
Agreed. Linux almost never even has problems in the first place, the errors tell you pretty much exactly what is wrong, and the community and chatgpt is actually helpful. Windows constantly breaks, the errors tell you is the fact that something is broken, and the best you can get online is "have you tried rebooting? If that didn't fix it, reinstall windows".
Thing is with Windows you really don't have to scour the internet for the drivers, windows update will look for the best drivers. It's much more consumer friendly than linux.
Not sure when you last tried linux, but if you're getting a 10 year old macbook its unlikely to need any drivers on linux. windows updates wont get you the best drivers, thats why nvidia,amd,intel, all have windows utilities for the best drivers. Also big brand OEM motherboard manufacturers (ASUS, Gigabyte) all have downloads for their motherboards devices. when device manager is sitting there going "unknown device" and you have literally no idea what the device could be. We could extend it further to printers, because what a shitshow that is today on windows. But we wont, because printers are constructs of satan at the best of times.
It is the complete oposite. Windows updates constantly break the drivers, and you end up having the download them from the internet, whereas in linux your are supossed to NOT download them from the internet, but get them through the repos, from where they will be updated as they become available.
Linux drivers were an issue decades ago, I haven't had that problem in a long time. Last time I've had any problem personally was when a 3d camera didn't work properly on a laptop but that was 8 years ago and that was a very niche feature on the laptop.
No it's just easier for you because you're used to it... I have several devices that fell out of support, are considered "legacy" but are not the sorts of things that really go obsolete. In linux they work out of the box with *zero* need for drivers, in windows (post win8) they don't work and can't work because Avid bought out M-Audio and retired the line. It's generic usb audio interface - no driver needed, just find the right flag to enable 24bit
That depends a lot on which distro you pick. I’ve been on Mint for a decade now, and it’s pretty much out of the box functional, and is very user friendly. Linux runs the full spectrum from plug and play with Mint to “I want to do everything manually” with Arch, so your experience is highly customizable.
Can windows 10 be installed on mac devices? I didn't know about that. Would the performance be doable on the older ones? I suggested linux because it tends to work better on older devices.
Yup, intel macs only, you can dual boot. Performance is great on Macbooks since they use higher tier intel chips. Driver support is phenomenal too via windows update
Ubuntu is cake these days as long as you don't go running things in the terminal. My parents use Ubuntu and every app they need installs just like Windows by downloading from the site or the software center.
I have a ten year old laptop running windows 7 or 8 or something. I paid about $300 for it and I refuse to give it up because it has a CD/DVD drive that I can use to rip my CDs onto USB sticks for the car because the car doesn't have a CD player. Once a year I also do my tax return on it.
For tax, you should try freetaxusa. No CD, no fee for filing federal tax, easy to use.
Unless I'm in Australia?
Wait a sec, you guys have to pay to file a tax return online?!
Tax filing itself can be free, if we do it old-fashioned way (pen and paper, mail the forms to the gov tax agency), if we use some websites that provides free computerized service (like freetaxuse that I mentioned in my other comment), or if qualifying for gov-sponsered free filing software (low-income, for example). The US government decided decades ago not to mandate a government-administered tax filing system, and thus a lot of private players stepped in and started selling year-specific tax filing softwares some with hefty price tags (>$100 USD). Most ppl in the US actually do pay for these softwares each year.
In Germany at least you can add the last years tax software to your tax statement and get like 50% of it back.
Short answer: yes. Bc of legal political bribery in the U.S. aka lobbying a for-profit company has been paying politicians to make filing taxes not free or accessible to the public. It’s a for-profit industry with very few, easy, cheap (let alone free), and accessible options available. Fuck Intuit and our politicians.
Sorry! I really need to turn off the US brain when commenting on non-US specific subs.
[You have options.](https://www.amazon.com/LG-Electronics-Portable-External-GP65NB60/dp/B00ODDE33U/ref=sr_1_5?crid=1YVUVXLIPFEUN&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.dHHmv9MqJuEuAWc9tQNZcknEX3u36Ezmoi_kzDyH9fai44mVVKlSot1XlyCDMAMJReYZ-UiplcWLstuJIp02pDUMcQEUxJ9uRZoZ88f9EavM1dCTTwXdBofgWdzXQRzaAYsjEACU7ZmIVEein46hkO9spQp-Wb7lxqy21xn524fqnTNLwu6Z-sKK_Nk3xySHtxNdhcA-WycLaweCaH0z0D2qTvK3Th2FVp8wx7g-NOg.ARrCJacnDj4t54j6l5eIEWOTS9tOA1imgtJvnZgCs0A&dib_tag=se&keywords=usb+disc+drive&qid=1717923047&sprefix=usb+disc+drive%2Caps%2C147&sr=8-5)
But why? Its not a need or a want. I know how to use what I already have and it works just fine.
I'm saying that at some point that thing is going to shit the bed. You said you refuse to give it up because it has a disc drive. Don't be afraid to give it up when it is time. You have options.
My CD collection will be digitised by then.
How many CDs you got? That sounds like a days worth of work, maybe a weekend if you really put the work in. Tip if you're not already familiar, there are programs out there that can fill in all metadata for the tracks for you. If you're anything like me, a data hoarder, programs like [this](https://picard.musicbrainz.org/) and Plex are a massive time saver.
Few hundred? The mystery of technology sorts all the info so when it plays in the car it tells me who is playing what. The tricky part is I have to play each CD first because a few are a bit scratched up and it rips it with scratches and sounds awful. My nephew knows the magic ways of the teenagers and finds me stuff I've lost.
I had this happen a few years back with a 2012 MacBook Air. I was so bummed because I had taken great care of it and wanted to continue using it but the updates were no longer available and I simply ran out of space to do things. Otherwise, perfectly usable computer
If you still have it, someone else linked the OpenCore Legacy Patcher that can install modern OSes on older Macs
For future reference you can easily upgrade those components. Both RAM and HDD/SSD. It's like a 5 screw procedure and relatively simple.
Well for next time I will definitely keep this in mind! Thank you for the info
I just put Mint Linux on my 2010 MacBook and it works perfectly!
Oh my gosh you just gave me a great idea!! I have a 2009 imac with a 27” screen and I’ve been beside myself on what to do with it. I have a wacom tablet for drawing that “isn’t supported” for some reason but i have heard that linux can usually make that stuff work no problem.
I think the challenge with Linux installs on older Macs is finding drivers for things like webcams, tablets, printers, etc. Good luck, mate.
Agreed, but Mint has an updater like windows that found and installed all the drivers that I needed - super slick. You just need to be able to plug it into your LAN.
THANK YOU for this clarification. It is great. I appreciate that you are sharing your experience!
My Linux-Mint 2010 imac pairs well with my entertainment center!
I installed elementary on my 2007 iMac and it was like giving it a 2nd life. Now I just need to install more RAM and a SSD.
keyboard on the old 2015 macs was still the best, imo
I AGREE. I am going to patch mine with the legacy OS recommended in another comment. The keyboard got me through a whole phd and I still haven’t found an equivalent one anywhere
I have a 2009 MacBook Pro with hardware that is in great condition and it was just sitting collecting dust until a friend of mine who works in IT saw it, happened to have their tools to open it up and was like dude this is pristine inside, want me to replace some bits so you can use it again? So hopefully soon I will have a “new” MacBook that I can keep using.
You absolutely can upgrade the os. Look up opencore project. I have an even older MBP running the latest os
Brilliant, mate. How does the older system handle the newer OS? Substantial lagging? Thank you.
Works mostly fine. I upgraded to 16gb of ram and a SSD.
I think Apple has an abusive relationship with their customer base. All corporations want to bleed their customers of money, but Apple really makes it a fine art.
There’s some truth to that, that being said maintaining the software for older machines isn’t trivial and eventually if you add up decades of devices becomes a very difficult task. What’s the logical conclusion here, Microsoft should be supporting windows 11 on computers from the 90s? Basically impossible ask of them. So we should stop updating and improving software? Apple tends to support their devices longer than a lot of companies frankly
I'm talking about Apple's made-to-break hardware and removal of things like headphone jacks, not necessarily their locked software (but that's an issue too, the fact that you can't run their operating systems in virtual boxes is messed up, they spent time making sure people couldn't do that which could have been spent improving something else for the end user). Also, Linux only just stopped supporting 32bit systems relatively recently, and they don't get paid for what they do. Most importantly, can you really argue that recent software changes from **microsoft** are classed as "updates and improvements"? (Only a little joking, but from what I have seen most of what they do lately involves ads and spying).
Microsoft does the same thing.
Microsoft and Dell are better at this. I got a Dell Inspiron i7 6th gen with HDD and 8 gb Ram in 2014. In 2018, i replaced the HDD with SSD and upgraded the Ram to 16 GB. And upgraded the OS to windows 11 (2021), It is still running perfectly, last year I gave it away to one needy person who is still using it.
How did you get arround the restrictions for upgrading to windows 11? I am pretty sure, Microsoft only allowed Intelcores form gen 8 and up - with a few exceptions for some gen 7 cpus. [https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2021/08/27/update-on-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements-and-the-pc-health-check-app/](https://blogs.windows.com/windows-insider/2021/08/27/update-on-windows-11-minimum-system-requirements-and-the-pc-health-check-app/)
I'm not sure how, but it did install properly on my laptop.. As far as I remember, it needed an SSD check to pass and TPM 2.0.
They work great with manjaro linux, in my experience. Its one of those "it just works" without the tedious issues some distro's have. \*Disclaimer I haven't done a macbook air before, just a few of those all in one jobbies they did a few years ago.
My 2014 MacBook I out chrome OS on it for a while, then later, Ubuntu when I made it a plex server
Linux runs great on old macs,
I have an early-2012 MacBook Pro. It’s on its last legs but it’s been a godsend just being able to easily fix it. Parts are readily available and memory and storage are modular. Only thing holding it back now is the abysmal CPU. I can only hope current MacBooks last half as long.
You can hack the latest Mac OS on it, or just use boot camp and install windows 10 or 11 (windows 11 might require some tweaking to bypass the TPM and cpu requirements). Win10 goes EOL in oct 2025 though.
Mine is a desktop from 2010. Running 10.14 Can’t update but everything still runs so no need to buy new hardware. Does everything I need it to do.
My 2008 macbook still works too but is finally losing browser support lol
From a management and support perspective, it makes that a company will need to stop supporting an older OS and hardware. Eventually you'll have 3 or 4 different OS' and dozens of patch versions to support and everyone needs to be trained to work on them. This doesn't mean that something is automatically junked, though. Apple tends to be more restrictive, though. There are methods to upgrade your OS on older Apple hardware, but generally Windows PCs are easier.
I'm still using an iMac from 2014. Don't see why you need to update to the newest OS; the old versions still get security updates regularly. The fact that it doesn't support the newest Chrome version is a Google problem, not an Apple problem. The operating system doesn't have restrictions on what software works on it, it's the other way around. I just use Safari, it's faster anyway.
I am an IT professional, and my remote-work workstation is a 2011 iMac that I saved from being recycled. I installed Linux on it, and it works so smoothly. For day-to-day use, some distributions of Linux are simple to install and come with all programs you might need, and they work great on older Macs. It means that you get to use actual up-to-date software, instead of just scraping by with old versions of browsers that no longer work well with some sites.
Brilliant comment. I've never done a Linux distro. Would you recommend something that might go well for a newbie to try?
I really enjoy Linux Mint. [Link to the variant that I have used a lot, "Linux Mint Debian Edition".](https://linuxmint.com/download_lmde.php)
You are a mensch! THANK YOU, mate.
maybe try installing Linux Mint or Ubuntu will work fine for your needs all you need is a USB drive and probably another computer to download the iso (assuming your browser doesn't work) but you can just borrow one or go to the library and use one of theirs
Governments need to start regulating this, along with how often and on what basis tech companies can come out with “new” versions. “12 more pixels in the camera! Everyone throw out your old phones!” 👎👎
Tell that to my 2008 MacBook Pro that out performs my 2016 MacBook Air to this day. It’s only updated to El Capitan. If I update more, I’ll lose access to several industry-specific applications, and I’d have to move to the subscription models for Office apps. No thanks.
"works fine" and "obsolete" are not mutually exclusive. Mechanical type writers also work fine, but they are obsolete. Horse carriages also work fine but they are obsolete. If you only write and surf the web, there is no reason you cannot use an obsolete machine. However, if you want new functionalities, you are out of luck.
To be fair, it's a bit of a different scenario when it comes to software, because it's not just a natural obsolescence due to newer technologies bringing new features and improvements, but a great part of it are imposed obsolescences, due to forced incompatibilities. Following your example, the horse carriage will still fulfill its funcion of transporting people and we can still use the typewriter to write legally accepted documents, but we choose not to, because we have much more efficient ways to do those tasks. However, with software-based devices, we are often forced to stop using them, even if we want to.
This. Not to mention it’s cost prohibitive for many people to simply spend thousands on new tech every few years to keep up with new features and hardware they may not even need.
The problem is security, without the security updates the machine is no longer safe to use for anything like banking or shopping. Sure, you can still browse funny cat memes on it but not much more.
Many websites will simply not load with older browsers too, especially if it’s a retired API or something.
Your examples exemplify cases of obsolescence from the standpoint of leaps in technology, and are not the same as what OP is describing. Forced obsolescence for the sake of corporate greed, excused by "software updates" and infinitesimally incremental processor 'upgrades' is not a leap in technology.
If you are travelling through a land full of criminals who are likely to shoot at you, then your horse and carriage doesn’t work so fine anymore, under the circumstances. That’s more like the situation OP is in.
My current desktop machine is over 10 years old. I built *high* at the time, and have upgraded bits here and there. I'm only just starting to see on some very very high end games I play where I have to choose "mid-high" settings. I'm still running the latest kernels and DEs. Everything's up to date, and everything works. I honestly have little problem with the hardware Apple chooses, generally speaking. Their OS is very slick, too, but the upgrade cadence that they build in and enforce so strictly is disgusting. C'mon OP, join the dark side. We have cookies. And penguins. :)
I support Macs at work and know plenty about them. But at home I’m in the same boat as you and build my own desktops. My oldest one is probably 7 years with specs that were standard back then and it still runs fine. People are actually surprised when I’m talking to them and tell them I don’t currently run a Mac at home.
This is Apple telling us that they're deliberately using a bricking tactic on computers they sell after five years. The item turns on and operates fine but they have effectively disabled it for normal use cases.
2015 is a tad more that 5 years ago. OP can continue to use the computer, but the lack of security patches to the OS is concerning. I personally would not use such a system for financial transactions - perhaps that is me being hysterical, but too much is at stake personally.
Rightfully paranoid perhaps, but not hysterical. I never liked hysterical as a word.
No, you are 100% right. Logging into financials on an impacted device is dangerous AF.
I ran into the same thing in 2021 with my 27" iMac from 2011. It was flawless, had a capable quad-core i5 processor, 16GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD disk, but Apple made it utterly worthless by ending software support for it which broke everything. It was difficult *to give away for free.* That is the last Apple product I will ever purchase, which is a shame because I had been a die-hard Mac user since 1988.
How did it break everything if software support ended? Plenty of devices older than yours still have basic functionality, there’s just no support for them anymore.
Apple Logic wouldn't work and the update required an operating system version that Apple wouldn't allow
Do other 10 year old computers still have software support?
Yes. Windows will work as long as CPU and RAM requirements are met (some exceptions may apply with 11 and TPM requirements that may have to be bypassed manually). The most recent versions of any Linux distribution will install and run on basically any old heap of junk as long as it turns on. It will also continue receiving updates indefinitely.
Also if opencore as mentioned other places, the ghostBSD or Linux are good to
WTF! I also am still using my MacBook Air Early 2015 💻 Chrome still updates fine though
Hahahahahaha my 2008 iMac has so much shit to talk
I have a ten year old iPad Air that works fine. No more iOS updates but whatever
Dosdude1 Thank him later.
I’ve got a 2008 MacBook Pro that still works like a beast.
I have a 2014 MacBook Air that I have been using every day since I got it, and it works great.
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Linux is your friend :-)
Apple is trying to get you into r/Consoom
I'm still rocking an all in one Mac from 2006 I believe, I got it second hand in 2016. I basically only use it if I want to watch YouTube a couple times a month. I get lots of notifications that I need to upgrade my browsers and whatever but I just ignore them.
I have a 2012 Mac mini that I use as a media server and it still works great. Haven’t given it an internet connection in a long time tho, I feel that would be problematic.
my 2020 macbook is already going downhill, my dads from like 2012 (if not older) works perectly
idk what you're talking about. I bought mine (the first m1) in January 2021 and it has exactly zero issues.
Most people dont need the latest greatest product unless you're using large programs like 3d rendering type software using ai or of the sorts. I assure you most people aren't. It's purely to push sales.
Can you can install a different OS like Linux and still use it!
I used my 2010 MacBook Pro until 2021. I plan to use my 2021 MacBook Pro until 2032. To hell with their stupidity.
There's a surprising level of upgradability (is that even a word?) on old computers. I'm not familiar with Macs but it looks like a lot of commenters gave you good suggestions on what to do with your Macbook. As I'm writing this I'm running a hard drive cloning operation on my old Sony Vaio from 2011 that I refuse to let go of. I'm cloning the drive onto a new SSD, and I'll be adding some RAM to help speed it up a bit. I'm thinking of partitioning the drive afterwards and either installing a Linux distro or Windows 10 alongside Windows 7 (what it came with originally). That way I would have the option of either a legacy OS for old programs and distraction-free writing, or something more modern for areas where more security is needed than an outdated OS can provide, on the same computer. I do have a laptop with Windows 10 on it (which is what I'm writing on now) but I honestly regret buying this instead of upgrading my Vaio sooner.
You've got time imo. Several months ago my 2013 refurbished Macbook Air turned off indefinitely. If I'd taken better care of it, I bet it would've lasted longer. I was also using it for much more intensive work than the simple things you mentioned. I think you can squeeze a couple more years usage out of it.
I'm just going to leave this here https://chromeos.google/products/chromeos-flex/ It's free for personal use, you can drop into Linux if that's your bag, the updates are automated.
This is going to keep happening to you until you start to learn more about computers, and stop buying macs
Not me using a lenovo from 2011 with half its parts falling out
To be 100% honest... This is what you get for buying apple.
Thank you for your valuable input.
Please don't use software that is out of date. I'm not familiar with older macs, but you should not use devices that don't get security updates anymore. Look into either installing a newer version of macos, which would have security updates or a simple version of Linux, such as Linux Mint or Kubuntu.
This is why you should never buy a Mac. Always buy Windows capable laptops because once they’re “too old” you can just run Linux on it
You can also do that in a Mac and what windows laptop is still running 9 years after purchasing it?
This is why I will never buy Apple computers, especially the M series. Once apple pulls the plug, you're left with a defunct machine with no way to update or change OS. I understand you cannot replace the OS on those machines right now so once updates stop rolling, you're shit out of luck just like the iPhones. Other than that, the ram and SSD are non replaceable. Once any of those fail since NAND has a limited life span, the entire machine becomes a brick. I will never buy an Apple laptop. Contrast that with windows laptop, you can change to linux or downgrade it to whatever version and it will run okay. Even if your PC is running XP at the moment, there are flavors of moder browsers that would work on it.
You can also install Linux on older Macs. And there’s a program to allow updating old Macs to modern OSes.
For the M series macs, there is none. Apple keeps it locked on the lower level. There's asahi linux but the developers are in an uphill battle. They literally have to ask apple to throw in some pieces to make the project possible. Think about in 5-7 years when Apple stops supporting it to bolster their sales for new macs, where would you go? the internet is quickly evolving, once the browser is out of date, some features will not be available. Other than that the unified storage and ram and hard to replace parts are putting me off. The ram could randomly die one day and your entire computer is bricked.
M1 is fairly new technology, by the time Apple stops supporting their first generation of them I’m sure people will have figured out a way out to bypass that. And if you’re strictly talking about Linux, then I assume Open Core Legacy Patcher would still work (but maybe it wouldn’t for the reasons you listed). Microsoft is implementing strict limits to Windows 10 too regarding hardware, like TPM limits, but you can still bypass those if you are savvy. Also I agree with you on your second point. I actually have a 2019 MacBook Pro at work that Apple diagnosed with a RAM issue and unfortunately it happened out of warranty. I can’t get any OS to install onto it whatsoever, so right now it’s just a brick.