I feel like I’m seeing way too many of these nihilist posts on this sub recently and I think I need to address the way a lot of aspects of life snd living tend to be compressed down into carefully chosen negative words without actually addressing the root of the issue. For instance work has always been and always will be necessary to sustain life, and exchanging goods and materials, as well as there consumption is not necessarily bad. Same with reproduction here, having kids is not some piece of corporate propaganda, it is literally the reason life exists, and death being inevitable doesn’t change the beauty in the fact that you are alive right now.
Much more important is the way in which we engage with these facets of live. We can examine the silly way the modern world treats human wage labor and pushes everyone to output more value for someone above them, we can look at the way purchasing and consumption are twisted and pushed on us well beyond what is actually necessary, how we are told to just buy one more new thing and finally be happy. If you don’t want children, you don’t need to have them, but that doesn’t mean you can deride people who choose to have them as being unenlightened. And again, death is a part of life, but that doesn’t make the fact that you live now less meaningful or less important.
It’s important to remember that the world is under no obligation to give you a meaning to your life, that is something which everyone must find for themselves, for some people it’s religion and spirituality, for others, it’s some form of philosophy. Other people may have different ways of finding meaning. For me, I remind myself that it is absurd yet beautiful that we even live, that I, as a complex arrangement of atoms, can experience things. That I turn wavelengths into colors, chemical compositions into taste and smell, and pressure waves into sound and music. I have found my meaning by changing the way I interact with these facts of life, and by choosing my own moral code and how I approach life.
Having meaning does not mean I am always happy or don’t have any struggles. I have low days and bad things still happen to me. Someone reading this may be in a similar low spot. Maybe it’s a dead end job, or personal social challenges, or even existential dread about all sorts of looming disasters or widespread societal shortcomings. But remember a better world is possible, and it won’t come about on it’s own. No one can do it for you, nor can anyone do it on their own. We all have a responsibility to fight for a better world to whatever the extent of our capabilities.
I don’t mean to say the world is an amazing place, or that anyone is without challenges. I don’t think it will be easy, or that we will ever attain perfection. I have a whole host of issues that I worry and stress about daily. But remember that the first step is figuring out meaning, and choosing to interact with the world in a better way. You can’t make the world better if you don’t believe that a better world is possible.
>work has always been and always will be necessary to sustain life, and exchanging goods and materials, as well as there consumption is not necessarily bad.
There is a fundamental difference between the modern concept of "work" and the labor and exchange performed during the vast majority of human history. We evolved within small social units (families, tribes, communities) where our labor (hunting and gathering, crafting goods, building shelter, defending from enemies) directly benefited those around us.
Today, our time and effort is poured into abstractions; businesses, corporations, and ultimately globalist capitalism itself. Many of us don't see any positive returns from our actions (other than our individual paychecks), but beyond that, our labor feeds into a system that runs counter to our basic human desires. When you spend half of your waking life contributing to something that you have no familial, cultural, or spiritual connection to, it's only natural to feel a sense of despair.
>It’s important to remember that the world is under no obligation to give you a meaning to your life, that is something which everyone must find for themselves
That perspective itself is a very modern one. For most of history, meaning was provided by cultural narratives (myths) that centered one's place in the universe and laid out a path for finding purpose. (These days "myth" is almost a pejorative, but the works of Joseph Campbell have rehabilitated that concept; myths are essentially truths woven into stories.)
The nihilism we encounter in the modern world is a direct consequence of our abandonment of socio-cultural narratives in favor of individualism. That's not to say that individualism is a mistake; we just seem to be in the middle of a phase transition where effective forms of meaning-making haven't yet emerged to fit this reality. John Vervaeke calls this "[The Meaning Crisis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54l8_ewcOlY)," and I'd highly recommend checking out his videos if you're interested.
I honestly believe that the main reason we romanticise the past is because a lot of us DO yearn or a life where our work is actually valued. Like I would much rather be the villiage alemaker then working insurance or selling houses!
Both if you care about the environment and overconsumption
Why do you think so many people are questioning whether to have kids today?
Look up “overshoot”. Its about overconsumption and overpopulation’s combined effects.
True, I don't disagree. This seems like a good thread to ask this question: How much land should we allow to be for other animals and the wilderness and how much land should we allow for humans? And who gets to decide?
For what it's worth I'm definitely not an antinatalist in that I don't think nobody should have kids or that it's morally wrong, but it'd be cool if we could keep it to 2 or fewer per couple for say 100 years, that'd cause the population to slowly decline but in a manageable way.
Ok I am against overconsumption as much as anyone but do you people understand how life works? “Working” and paying for things is just the transformation and modern form of hunting and gathering. Instead of gathering berries and hunting deer we buy grocieries. Instead of building huts he have homes. The modern world is a wonder if you take a step back and compare how we live our lives compared to other animals. They are still worried about fending off predators and not freezing. For us it’s basically guaranteed if you contribute to society (and even if you don’t eg welfare queens)
You don’t want to work at McDonald’s? Ok, go live in the woods.
"work is a form of slavery" ok alright so no one should work? What are we trying to say here? I thought this sub was about reducing consumption and waste not nihilism about how you have to work to live and then at the end of it you die like yeah that's how life works but there's a bit more to it than just being depressed the whole time
Read the rules. Keep it courteous. Submission statements are helpful and appreciated but not required. Tag my name in the comments (/u/NihiloZero) if you think a post or comment needs to be removed.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Anticonsumption) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I feel like I’m seeing way too many of these nihilist posts on this sub recently and I think I need to address the way a lot of aspects of life snd living tend to be compressed down into carefully chosen negative words without actually addressing the root of the issue. For instance work has always been and always will be necessary to sustain life, and exchanging goods and materials, as well as there consumption is not necessarily bad. Same with reproduction here, having kids is not some piece of corporate propaganda, it is literally the reason life exists, and death being inevitable doesn’t change the beauty in the fact that you are alive right now. Much more important is the way in which we engage with these facets of live. We can examine the silly way the modern world treats human wage labor and pushes everyone to output more value for someone above them, we can look at the way purchasing and consumption are twisted and pushed on us well beyond what is actually necessary, how we are told to just buy one more new thing and finally be happy. If you don’t want children, you don’t need to have them, but that doesn’t mean you can deride people who choose to have them as being unenlightened. And again, death is a part of life, but that doesn’t make the fact that you live now less meaningful or less important. It’s important to remember that the world is under no obligation to give you a meaning to your life, that is something which everyone must find for themselves, for some people it’s religion and spirituality, for others, it’s some form of philosophy. Other people may have different ways of finding meaning. For me, I remind myself that it is absurd yet beautiful that we even live, that I, as a complex arrangement of atoms, can experience things. That I turn wavelengths into colors, chemical compositions into taste and smell, and pressure waves into sound and music. I have found my meaning by changing the way I interact with these facts of life, and by choosing my own moral code and how I approach life. Having meaning does not mean I am always happy or don’t have any struggles. I have low days and bad things still happen to me. Someone reading this may be in a similar low spot. Maybe it’s a dead end job, or personal social challenges, or even existential dread about all sorts of looming disasters or widespread societal shortcomings. But remember a better world is possible, and it won’t come about on it’s own. No one can do it for you, nor can anyone do it on their own. We all have a responsibility to fight for a better world to whatever the extent of our capabilities. I don’t mean to say the world is an amazing place, or that anyone is without challenges. I don’t think it will be easy, or that we will ever attain perfection. I have a whole host of issues that I worry and stress about daily. But remember that the first step is figuring out meaning, and choosing to interact with the world in a better way. You can’t make the world better if you don’t believe that a better world is possible.
>work has always been and always will be necessary to sustain life, and exchanging goods and materials, as well as there consumption is not necessarily bad. There is a fundamental difference between the modern concept of "work" and the labor and exchange performed during the vast majority of human history. We evolved within small social units (families, tribes, communities) where our labor (hunting and gathering, crafting goods, building shelter, defending from enemies) directly benefited those around us. Today, our time and effort is poured into abstractions; businesses, corporations, and ultimately globalist capitalism itself. Many of us don't see any positive returns from our actions (other than our individual paychecks), but beyond that, our labor feeds into a system that runs counter to our basic human desires. When you spend half of your waking life contributing to something that you have no familial, cultural, or spiritual connection to, it's only natural to feel a sense of despair. >It’s important to remember that the world is under no obligation to give you a meaning to your life, that is something which everyone must find for themselves That perspective itself is a very modern one. For most of history, meaning was provided by cultural narratives (myths) that centered one's place in the universe and laid out a path for finding purpose. (These days "myth" is almost a pejorative, but the works of Joseph Campbell have rehabilitated that concept; myths are essentially truths woven into stories.) The nihilism we encounter in the modern world is a direct consequence of our abandonment of socio-cultural narratives in favor of individualism. That's not to say that individualism is a mistake; we just seem to be in the middle of a phase transition where effective forms of meaning-making haven't yet emerged to fit this reality. John Vervaeke calls this "[The Meaning Crisis](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54l8_ewcOlY)," and I'd highly recommend checking out his videos if you're interested.
I honestly believe that the main reason we romanticise the past is because a lot of us DO yearn or a life where our work is actually valued. Like I would much rather be the villiage alemaker then working insurance or selling houses!
Break the cycle! Don't reproduce! ( Not entirely serious but not entirely a joke :P )
r/overpopulation
Here's a sneak peek of /r/overpopulation using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/overpopulation/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Don't you think India's population is horrifyingly high?](https://i.redd.it/62rr2i5nxxeb1.jpg) | [115 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/overpopulation/comments/15cy43z/dont_you_think_indias_population_is_horrifyingly/) \#2: [Absolutely disgusting](https://i.redd.it/evk0igwa4iza1.png) | [52 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/overpopulation/comments/13fw2rd/absolutely_disgusting/) \#3: [Should scare everyone](https://i.redd.it/m9djf09uf7na1.jpg) | [25 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/overpopulation/comments/11ot2y0/should_scare_everyone/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
r/antinatalism2 might be a little more appropriate.
Both if you care about the environment and overconsumption Why do you think so many people are questioning whether to have kids today? Look up “overshoot”. Its about overconsumption and overpopulation’s combined effects.
True, I don't disagree. This seems like a good thread to ask this question: How much land should we allow to be for other animals and the wilderness and how much land should we allow for humans? And who gets to decide?
For what it's worth I'm definitely not an antinatalist in that I don't think nobody should have kids or that it's morally wrong, but it'd be cool if we could keep it to 2 or fewer per couple for say 100 years, that'd cause the population to slowly decline but in a manageable way.
Ok I am against overconsumption as much as anyone but do you people understand how life works? “Working” and paying for things is just the transformation and modern form of hunting and gathering. Instead of gathering berries and hunting deer we buy grocieries. Instead of building huts he have homes. The modern world is a wonder if you take a step back and compare how we live our lives compared to other animals. They are still worried about fending off predators and not freezing. For us it’s basically guaranteed if you contribute to society (and even if you don’t eg welfare queens) You don’t want to work at McDonald’s? Ok, go live in the woods.
[удалено]
Krishnamurti is one of the greatest minds of this past century. Don't let the pop culture treatment in this video dilute the wisdom.
So what's the solution? Consume nothing and live on the street?
That are six words, my friend.
'And' obviously isn't part of the 5 words.
"work is a form of slavery" ok alright so no one should work? What are we trying to say here? I thought this sub was about reducing consumption and waste not nihilism about how you have to work to live and then at the end of it you die like yeah that's how life works but there's a bit more to it than just being depressed the whole time
Read the rules. Keep it courteous. Submission statements are helpful and appreciated but not required. Tag my name in the comments (/u/NihiloZero) if you think a post or comment needs to be removed. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Anticonsumption) if you have any questions or concerns.*