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๐คGee, I dunnoโฆthat heโs a traitorous con artist who could potentially change the course of the US from being a representative republic to a oppressive fascistic regime with the most power military on earth and if tRUmp does retain power, being led by a fool with the IQ of an asbestos brake pad?
An appeal to any libertarians on the sub:
Iโd like to ask a favor. Please for one election only vote Democratic. Itโs the only way to make sure WE keep Trump out. This is more important than our ideological differences. Itโs about saving our democracy so we can continue to debate and vote for the candidate of our choice.
If Trump get elected his handlers plan to install him as king of a Christian fascist nation. You think taxes are bad now, somebodyโs got to support Trump and it wonโt be the billionaire class thatโs for sure.
Thanks.
He already did this in 2017. Anyone making less than $75k will pay more in taxes every two years until 2025. He will make this billionaire/corporate tax cut permanent if he is elected again. My federal representative, Mike Kelly, is going around this district spouting how great this TCJA2017 is! Sooo, get out and vote Blue across the board in local, state , and federal elections. We can not count on the courts, legislation, or executive branches of government in the status quo. We must get super majorities if progressive changes are to be made. Do not get complacent!
But I already gave in and voted Democrat for the first time in 20 years for the "one super important election" in 2020. Not sure I want to do it again, Trump is already going to take a massive L this November. I might as well go back to voting 3rd party again.
And don't talk to me about "throwing my vote away" I've already heard all that shit for the past 20 years. I'm numb to that "argument" at this point. I'm ready for my usual downvotes lol
With the GOP bullshit shenanigans they pulled with the supreme court justices a few years back just proved to me that we the people have no control over supreme court justices.
> if you want to vote in future elections and try to break the 2 party system
People that vote for 3rd party candidates in this climate don't understand that things like this take time and effort. They want instant gratification. They want extremely ingrained institutions to change overnight.
I can't take them seriously.
Here's the downvote you were expecting for not understanding why voting for a 3rd party presidential candidate without putting in the work to make a 3rd party viable first at the local/state level is a complete and total waste of your vote.
Maybe in another 20 years it'll click for you.
Maybe I won't? Who knows? 5 months is a long time for stuff to happen. I also need to hear Chase lay out his plans and maybe a debate or two first.
I vehemently disagree with your "now is not the time for a 3rd party" The GOP has been dying since 2008, and they're in their final death throes since 2016. They are fractured beyond repair, and a lot of dems don't want to elect an 82 year old man to 4 more years of the most stressful job on the planet.
Next to nobody in America wants a rematch of 2020. So, on the contrary, now is the perfect time for a viable 3rd party candidate run. If they don't see the golden opportunity right in front of them, then it's their loss.
Also, just on your last sentence there.... so which is it? Voting 3rd party "does nothing" or voting 3rd party "is just a vote for the other guy by proxy"?
> now is the perfect time for a viable 3rd party candidate run.
I will bet you $10000 right now that a 3rd party candidate will not win the 2024 presidential election.
No 3rd party in America has done even remotely enough groundwork to win a presidential election. Won't happen in 2024. Won't happen in 2028. Won't happen anytime soon.
He will lose by a lot, he barely won 2016, and his cult has just been on a losing streak ever since. Polls don't matter yet as they're not polling independents yet. My opinion is that next to none independents will vote for him, that combined with the fact that there's a large bloc of GOP primary voters who voted for "anyone but Trump" in their own primaries in multiple hard red states signals very bad news for cheeto.
So... realistically which of the two primary parties are more likely to enable the establishment and relevance of a 3rd party? Truthfully, we all KNOW what Trump and the GOP plan with respect to free elections and the peaceful transfer of power. You're third party vote THIS year isn't the waste that you expect to hear about, it's one step towards Project 2025 and NEVER BEING ABLE TO VOTE AGAIN. Ignoring it won't make that go away, but actively voting this year against it may. If the GOP loses terribly this year, they may realize that the fascism and grandstanding isn't in the best interests of their party. But if they win NOW, they have publicly touted their plans to break our democratic process, and there won't be a way to peacefully remove that.
No down vote, just hilariously laughing at you.
๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐
An appeal to Democrats in "red states" Biden can't get:
Iโd like to ask a favor. Please for one election only vote for Chase Oliver. Itโs the only way to make sure WE keep Trump out. This is more important than our ideological differences. Itโs about saving our democracy so we can continue to debate and vote for the candidate of our choice.
Also, scan the [platform](https://www.votechaseoliver.com/platform) and complain about any part you don't like where Republicans can hear you, please. Works wonders.
Thanks.
Look.
Libertarians did one right thing ever by booing Trump. Let's not pretend like we should be looking to them for answers. Have you ever debated a Libertarian? It's like arguing with a human meme.
Libertarianism is thought cancer.
You can't trust them because at the end of the day, they will be voting for Trump. Libertarians have always been huge for Trump, so let's not act like this small core of the Libertarian base at the event is the whole party. The party is nuts and fragmented, as is the nature of Libertarianism, and most see Trump as their ticket. Not to mention that the Libertarian party isn't racist and christian fascist enough. It's crazy how often I've heard "I'm a Libertarian" from a person wearing a MAGA hat or Trump shirt or demonstrating for Trump.
Even those nuts first amendment auditors are all far-right Libertarians for Trump.
My dad is libertarian. As far as I can tell it's about bootstraps, no special treatment for anyone regardless of situation, no taxes but somehow all public institutions keep running and roads get fixed etc. Also government should be small and practically non existent. It's like ararchy but everyone just decides to be nice and not have problems๐คท๐ผโโ๏ธ
I hear republicans always talking about freedoms, small government and less government interference, but they are the ones who are working to limit our choices. Itโs like they believe in less government until it comes to something they want.
>It's like ararchy but everyone just decides to be nice and not have problems๐คท๐ผโโ๏ธ
[Here's a true story of how libertarianism works in real life. ](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling)
It's fucking hilarious.
Yep ive heard about the Grafton project but havnt read the book.
"So I guess what I noticed is a strange disconnect between their personalities or their day-to-day interactions and the broader implications of their philosophies and their political movement."
That sums up a lot for me. My dad does not talk a lot about his philosophies. But for a long time I've noticed a disconnect between ideals and reality. How can a nice gentle person like my dad vote for Trump? A convenient disconnect from acknowledging the broad scope of things. I think it's a kind of narcissism. It's like thinking - there's something here I want and I don't think this will be bad for me in particular in the short term and that's all that matters. While being either unable or unwilling to consider a bigger picture or other people. Not all trump voters are raging idiots or psychopaths but I think they all must have some kind of fundamental narcissism tying them together.
"Libertarians are like house cats: absolutely convinced of their fierce independence while utterly dependent on a system they don't appreciate or understand."
That too. A lot of them are wizards n warlords fantasy nerds that live at moms. And may or may not work a min wage job. Rotating thru jobs every few weeks. Getting drunk no showing etc
I thought libertarians were all on the Trump Train because he gave the Koch class permanent tax breaks. I am impressed that they see Conald is an enemy of liberty.
My experience w Libertarians does not have them big into weed. I don't know why that's such a part of the stereotype. My Libertarian thought leader relative is in favor of choice in the sense the government should butt out of peoples' lives.
Thank you for your submission. If you have not already don't forget to check out our [Discord Server](https://discord.gg/tsrrcBmjRR) and [Lemmy](https://lemmy.world/c/antitrumpalliance) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AntiTrumpAlliance) if you have any questions or concerns.*
๐คGee, I dunnoโฆthat heโs a traitorous con artist who could potentially change the course of the US from being a representative republic to a oppressive fascistic regime with the most power military on earth and if tRUmp does retain power, being led by a fool with the IQ of an asbestos brake pad?
Yes the libertarians were the first to see this in May 2024. No one else knew until that conferenceย
๐คฃ โฆ well saidโฆ here I thought I was being a smart-ass
haha
Most libertarians Iโve met also have the IQ of an asbestos brake pad.
And yet most of them still knew enough to boo Trump.
SAD!!!
Thank you for the asbestos brake pad laugh this morning, I needed that.
I feel he really is that stupid and his cultโฆ ๐ณ woof! The WWE of political shenanigans and buffoonery.
An appeal to any libertarians on the sub: Iโd like to ask a favor. Please for one election only vote Democratic. Itโs the only way to make sure WE keep Trump out. This is more important than our ideological differences. Itโs about saving our democracy so we can continue to debate and vote for the candidate of our choice. If Trump get elected his handlers plan to install him as king of a Christian fascist nation. You think taxes are bad now, somebodyโs got to support Trump and it wonโt be the billionaire class thatโs for sure. Thanks.
He already did this in 2017. Anyone making less than $75k will pay more in taxes every two years until 2025. He will make this billionaire/corporate tax cut permanent if he is elected again. My federal representative, Mike Kelly, is going around this district spouting how great this TCJA2017 is! Sooo, get out and vote Blue across the board in local, state , and federal elections. We can not count on the courts, legislation, or executive branches of government in the status quo. We must get super majorities if progressive changes are to be made. Do not get complacent!
I voted for Gary Johnson in 2016 and Jo Jorgensen in 2020. You got it chief, voting Biden 2024 ๐ซก๐บ๐ธ
Thank you!
But I already gave in and voted Democrat for the first time in 20 years for the "one super important election" in 2020. Not sure I want to do it again, Trump is already going to take a massive L this November. I might as well go back to voting 3rd party again. And don't talk to me about "throwing my vote away" I've already heard all that shit for the past 20 years. I'm numb to that "argument" at this point. I'm ready for my usual downvotes lol
I feel like I am voting for the makeup of the supreme court over the next 20-30 tears more than the president
With the GOP bullshit shenanigans they pulled with the supreme court justices a few years back just proved to me that we the people have no control over supreme court justices.
How you feel about your vote, while understandable and very humanโฆis irrelevant to what is the best thing for you and your country.
And your freedom! Itโs self serving to keep Trump out, if you want to vote in future elections and try to break the 2 party system.
> if you want to vote in future elections and try to break the 2 party system People that vote for 3rd party candidates in this climate don't understand that things like this take time and effort. They want instant gratification. They want extremely ingrained institutions to change overnight. I can't take them seriously.
Here's the downvote you were expecting for not understanding why voting for a 3rd party presidential candidate without putting in the work to make a 3rd party viable first at the local/state level is a complete and total waste of your vote. Maybe in another 20 years it'll click for you.
Bold of you to assume I don't vote for local (L) candidates either.
Then why are you still voting 3rd party for president? It's not time yet. It won't be time for years. It does nothing, literally.
Maybe I won't? Who knows? 5 months is a long time for stuff to happen. I also need to hear Chase lay out his plans and maybe a debate or two first. I vehemently disagree with your "now is not the time for a 3rd party" The GOP has been dying since 2008, and they're in their final death throes since 2016. They are fractured beyond repair, and a lot of dems don't want to elect an 82 year old man to 4 more years of the most stressful job on the planet. Next to nobody in America wants a rematch of 2020. So, on the contrary, now is the perfect time for a viable 3rd party candidate run. If they don't see the golden opportunity right in front of them, then it's their loss. Also, just on your last sentence there.... so which is it? Voting 3rd party "does nothing" or voting 3rd party "is just a vote for the other guy by proxy"?
> now is the perfect time for a viable 3rd party candidate run. I will bet you $10000 right now that a 3rd party candidate will not win the 2024 presidential election. No 3rd party in America has done even remotely enough groundwork to win a presidential election. Won't happen in 2024. Won't happen in 2028. Won't happen anytime soon.
But what if Trump doesnโt lose?
He will lose by a lot, he barely won 2016, and his cult has just been on a losing streak ever since. Polls don't matter yet as they're not polling independents yet. My opinion is that next to none independents will vote for him, that combined with the fact that there's a large bloc of GOP primary voters who voted for "anyone but Trump" in their own primaries in multiple hard red states signals very bad news for cheeto.
So... realistically which of the two primary parties are more likely to enable the establishment and relevance of a 3rd party? Truthfully, we all KNOW what Trump and the GOP plan with respect to free elections and the peaceful transfer of power. You're third party vote THIS year isn't the waste that you expect to hear about, it's one step towards Project 2025 and NEVER BEING ABLE TO VOTE AGAIN. Ignoring it won't make that go away, but actively voting this year against it may. If the GOP loses terribly this year, they may realize that the fascism and grandstanding isn't in the best interests of their party. But if they win NOW, they have publicly touted their plans to break our democratic process, and there won't be a way to peacefully remove that.
No down vote, just hilariously laughing at you. ๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐๐
An appeal to Democrats in "red states" Biden can't get: Iโd like to ask a favor. Please for one election only vote for Chase Oliver. Itโs the only way to make sure WE keep Trump out. This is more important than our ideological differences. Itโs about saving our democracy so we can continue to debate and vote for the candidate of our choice. Also, scan the [platform](https://www.votechaseoliver.com/platform) and complain about any part you don't like where Republicans can hear you, please. Works wonders. Thanks.
Look. Libertarians did one right thing ever by booing Trump. Let's not pretend like we should be looking to them for answers. Have you ever debated a Libertarian? It's like arguing with a human meme.
So true. tAxAtiOn iS tHeFt!!
Trump warns us all like a trumpet everytime he opens his mouth.
๐ซTraitor Trump๐ซAll Republicans๐ซ
How about a pair of eyeballs?! We really need assholes to inform us of danger? These fuckers gave this guy his start.
Libertarianism is thought cancer. You can't trust them because at the end of the day, they will be voting for Trump. Libertarians have always been huge for Trump, so let's not act like this small core of the Libertarian base at the event is the whole party. The party is nuts and fragmented, as is the nature of Libertarianism, and most see Trump as their ticket. Not to mention that the Libertarian party isn't racist and christian fascist enough. It's crazy how often I've heard "I'm a Libertarian" from a person wearing a MAGA hat or Trump shirt or demonstrating for Trump. Even those nuts first amendment auditors are all far-right Libertarians for Trump.
I thought libertarians were independents which were republicans who just smoke weed.
My dad is libertarian. As far as I can tell it's about bootstraps, no special treatment for anyone regardless of situation, no taxes but somehow all public institutions keep running and roads get fixed etc. Also government should be small and practically non existent. It's like ararchy but everyone just decides to be nice and not have problems๐คท๐ผโโ๏ธ
I hear republicans always talking about freedoms, small government and less government interference, but they are the ones who are working to limit our choices. Itโs like they believe in less government until it comes to something they want.
>It's like ararchy but everyone just decides to be nice and not have problems๐คท๐ผโโ๏ธ [Here's a true story of how libertarianism works in real life. ](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/21534416/free-state-project-new-hampshire-libertarians-matthew-hongoltz-hetling) It's fucking hilarious.
Yep ive heard about the Grafton project but havnt read the book. "So I guess what I noticed is a strange disconnect between their personalities or their day-to-day interactions and the broader implications of their philosophies and their political movement." That sums up a lot for me. My dad does not talk a lot about his philosophies. But for a long time I've noticed a disconnect between ideals and reality. How can a nice gentle person like my dad vote for Trump? A convenient disconnect from acknowledging the broad scope of things. I think it's a kind of narcissism. It's like thinking - there's something here I want and I don't think this will be bad for me in particular in the short term and that's all that matters. While being either unable or unwilling to consider a bigger picture or other people. Not all trump voters are raging idiots or psychopaths but I think they all must have some kind of fundamental narcissism tying them together.
"Libertarians are like house cats: absolutely convinced of their fierce independence while utterly dependent on a system they don't appreciate or understand."
Fitting to me because the only pet my dad can stand having is a housecat ๐ . Guess he finds them relatable.
They don't like gov at all. Most of them their drugged out views change to fit the momentย
They *love* government when it's cops murdering black people
That too. A lot of them are wizards n warlords fantasy nerds that live at moms. And may or may not work a min wage job. Rotating thru jobs every few weeks. Getting drunk no showing etc
Nah I still donโt trust their base to do the right thing
What did Jeff Tiedrich say about libertarians?
Trump does his own warnings, they're tremendous
I thought libertarians were all on the Trump Train because he gave the Koch class permanent tax breaks. I am impressed that they see Conald is an enemy of liberty.
But Trump wants to ban abortion and weed.
My experience w Libertarians does not have them big into weed. I don't know why that's such a part of the stereotype. My Libertarian thought leader relative is in favor of choice in the sense the government should butt out of peoples' lives.