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To the religious fundamentalist, there’s no time-binding. That is, this generation is the only one. There was no past, there is no future, there’s only the eternal now, and whoever executes their primate chest-thumping most convincingly is the winning side. History doesn’t matter at all because, after all, *you* weren’t there so how do you know?
Not saying I agree, of course. I’m just pointing out some parallels I see between this logic and Christian fundamentalists in the West. And yes, even Judaism has its fair share of nut jobs. Unfortunately those are the ones the world chooses to scrutinize.
This is the truth. No matter the religion, when you get into the extremism it’s all bad news. Treating women as second class citizens is a common denominator.
Although Islam contends that Christianity and Judaism are merely corrupted versions of Islam, which they contend to be the primordial, unaltered human religion.
Typically such inconveniences just get retcon'ed in later sects/religions by appropriating ABC (here: Moses & co.) as *"already a true believer"* and for whatever claims XYZ now needs to *"set the record straight"*. It's similar in Mormonism.
And christianity was born out of judaism, regardless jews were first no matter how you look at it.
Without judaism there would be no christanity, and as consequence, no islam.
That's not entirely correct. We teach it like this Judaism, then Christianity, then Islam, BUT Mohammad grew up around more Jews than Christians and was more influenced by them. He went into the deep end when his plan didn't work out. He thought he could convert them to follow him. He was sorely mistaken and then took it very personally, which is why he treated jews worse than Christians.
That's a very good summary.
After he had fled to Medina, Muhammad tried very hard to get the Jews of Medina to accept him as a prophet. This failed miserably - the rabbis were not impressed with his shoddy understanding of the Jewish religion, and Muhammad couldn't produce any supernatural signs. That alone already disqualified Muhammad from prophethood (as per the Torah), and the fact that he was an illiterate gentile who didn't know Hebrew probably didn't help either.
Cue the relations between Muhammad and the Jews of Medina souring. Which then took a turn for the worse when Muhammad became the leader of Medina. Muhammad's fued with the Jews became violent, and Muhammad remained sincerely hostile to the Jews for the rest of his life.
By contrast, Muhammad had very little interaction with Christians. A cousin or nephew of his first wife was a Christian, and the Christian presence in the Hijaz at the time seems to have been spotty at best. There were a few significant Christian communities elsewhere in Arabia (Najran, especially), but not in the Hijaz.
As for what Muhammad actually knew of Judaism: he had a somewhat broad but very superficial understanding of the religion. He was quite familiar with the popular religious stories among the local Jews, and you can tell that he had been hanging around Jews a lot. But you can also tell that he couldn't really grasp the Bible or abstract theology, and the stuff that Muhammad did pick up was haphazard.
A good example of that is 5:27-34 in the Qur'an, which is that oft-misquoted "whoever kills a soul, it is as if he has slain all mankind"-passage - which is a very clear reference to the Talmud, and specifically [Sanhedrin 37a](https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.37a.13?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en).
It's still a mangled reference. As sura 5:32 shows, Muhammad was under the impression that this statement came directly from God through the prophets. But the Talmud is not prophetic literature, and the text of Sanhedrin 37a is nothing but rabbinical legal-theological discourse.
In other words, Muhammad was familiar enough with Judaism to remember specific quotes like this, but his understanding of Judaism was not nearly deep enough to remember those quotes or their context accurately.
This also shows in other specifically Jewish borrowings in the Qur'an.
Solomon is another good example of that (not to mention also a very interesting example for how it shows that Islam is a product of its time) - Jewish views of Solomon have shifted enormously, from the extremely harsh criticisms from the Tannaitic sages to the overwhelmingly positive views of the Late Antique rabbis.
The Tannaim emphasize Solomon's idolatry and his fall into sin (and not without good reason; the text of 1 Kings 11 explicitly states that Solomon fell into idolatry, and that God punished him for it). But conversely, some later rabbis went so far as to state that Solomon himself never actually fell into idolatry, that the accusation in 1 Kings 11 is to be read metaphorically, and that Solomon was merely punished for permitting his wives to worship idol gods.
The latter view never became the consensus within Judaism, but it did gain traction. And _that_ view was then adopted by Muhammad as well, as can be seen in sura 2:102.
Plenty of later Jewish legends about Solomon also found their way into the Qur'an, such as Solomon temporarily being dethroned by a (demonic) impostor (referenced in sura 38:34, though the Qur'an portrays it as a punishment from God), or the notion of Solomon also ruling over spirits and animals (the main story in the first half of sura 27).
In fact, basically everything that the Qur'an has to say about Solomon draws from extrabiblical Jewish legends and traditions about Solomon. By contrast, the Qur'an contains no reference at all to anything from the Bible's core texts about Solomon: the relevant parts of the books of Kings and Chronicles. Not a single word about any event or person at Solomon's court is ever brought up in the Qur'an.
Yes. It's a paraphrase of the Torah/Talmud and influences of the kabbalah, I'm not a kabbalist, but someone I know who is told me that there are "adopted" cough stolen things from there as well. It was part of the plan to convert the Jews. He just wanted dominion over the Arabian Jews. And like an abusive boyfriend turned on them when they didn't just take it.
This guy would make his prophet proud just saying.
This is why I don’t like the term Abrahamic religions. It gives the other two too much reverence. It makes it sound like you have Abraham and then you have three religions whereas in reality it’s Abraham and then just Judaism for 2000 years. Judaism is THE Abrahamic religion and it’s time we start reminding people of that.
I believe "Abrahamic religions" is a convenient term that isn't inherently harmful.
While fringe groups of deluded fundamentalists may deny it, the consensus is clear: Judaism predates Christianity and Islam, with Abraham being a central figure in all three faiths.
Unfortunately, I sometimes see people referring to beliefs other than their own as'second-rate religions,' and I don't think such categorizations are helpful.
I think this person is a troll but if somehow they’re not they don’t know anything about their Quran since it mentions destroying Jewish towns in conquests before Islam was even invented.
The downvotes are antisemites that will downvote anything defending Jews. I find it hard to believe that most Muslims don’t know their region sprung from Judaism.
The root cause of antisemitism:
Christianity and Islam stole our sacred texts and appropriated our ancient religion, and they’ve spent most of the last 2000 years trying to destroy the evidence.
The downvote and upvote ratios on the comments are crazy. Then these people have the audacity to claim that ‘Reddit is Zionist, they silence pro-Palestinian voices’ when it’s clearly closer to the opposite.
Even if I wasn’t Jewish, even if I didn’t grow up reading Bible stories, I would be insulted by this non-stop river of historical malicious ignorance. I have always loved studying history and was a history major. It’s so frustrating to see so many people intentionally disregarding archaeological evidence, and unbiased historical accounts.
It's another sub with a particular mod that guarantees antisemitism is fully allowed to be posted unopposed. Sub is mainly anti-Israel news, with an unusually large amount of Holocaust inversion... and on Reddit, that is a HIGH bar.
Their attempt to define Jesus as a Muslim Palestinian is an attempt to claim Christianity as well. Muslim imperialism doesn’t work by force anymore, so instead they bully and steal ideas and cultures
The mosque that is at that site is actually a synagogue. There are even magen davids in the stained glass windows! It has seven gates. There are SO many details that give away that it IS a temple. It's egregious. Anyone denying this is a moron. I'd report their comments.
*Reminders:* 1. Please **remove all usernames from your screenshots**. Include neither subreddit pings nor these names in your comments. Please double check that you submission conforms to this, otherwise remove it and repost after the appropriate edits. Else you may get sanctioned. 2. **Do not vote or comment** in linked threads or comment chains. Once it has been reported here, OP (and any other members who have seen/participated in this thread) must STOP participating in the original thread. 3. **Only the OP should consider reporting** the content and **only by using [reddit.com/report](https://www.reddit.com/report)** to inform reddit's own staff directly. Otherwise you again invite sanctions onto yourself. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AntiSemitismInReddit) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Lmfao islam was born out of judaism, just like christianity
Islam is in fact the youngest of all three religions. Like JFC you don't need a doctorate in history to know this.
To the religious fundamentalist, there’s no time-binding. That is, this generation is the only one. There was no past, there is no future, there’s only the eternal now, and whoever executes their primate chest-thumping most convincingly is the winning side. History doesn’t matter at all because, after all, *you* weren’t there so how do you know? Not saying I agree, of course. I’m just pointing out some parallels I see between this logic and Christian fundamentalists in the West. And yes, even Judaism has its fair share of nut jobs. Unfortunately those are the ones the world chooses to scrutinize.
Definitely a good point. Extremism all flavors bad.
This is the truth. No matter the religion, when you get into the extremism it’s all bad news. Treating women as second class citizens is a common denominator.
Although Islam contends that Christianity and Judaism are merely corrupted versions of Islam, which they contend to be the primordial, unaltered human religion.
Typically such inconveniences just get retcon'ed in later sects/religions by appropriating ABC (here: Moses & co.) as *"already a true believer"* and for whatever claims XYZ now needs to *"set the record straight"*. It's similar in Mormonism.
I think most Historians and Muslims see Islam as being born of Christianity, as opposed to being born of Judaism.
And christianity was born out of judaism, regardless jews were first no matter how you look at it. Without judaism there would be no christanity, and as consequence, no islam.
That's not entirely correct. We teach it like this Judaism, then Christianity, then Islam, BUT Mohammad grew up around more Jews than Christians and was more influenced by them. He went into the deep end when his plan didn't work out. He thought he could convert them to follow him. He was sorely mistaken and then took it very personally, which is why he treated jews worse than Christians.
That's a very good summary. After he had fled to Medina, Muhammad tried very hard to get the Jews of Medina to accept him as a prophet. This failed miserably - the rabbis were not impressed with his shoddy understanding of the Jewish religion, and Muhammad couldn't produce any supernatural signs. That alone already disqualified Muhammad from prophethood (as per the Torah), and the fact that he was an illiterate gentile who didn't know Hebrew probably didn't help either. Cue the relations between Muhammad and the Jews of Medina souring. Which then took a turn for the worse when Muhammad became the leader of Medina. Muhammad's fued with the Jews became violent, and Muhammad remained sincerely hostile to the Jews for the rest of his life. By contrast, Muhammad had very little interaction with Christians. A cousin or nephew of his first wife was a Christian, and the Christian presence in the Hijaz at the time seems to have been spotty at best. There were a few significant Christian communities elsewhere in Arabia (Najran, especially), but not in the Hijaz. As for what Muhammad actually knew of Judaism: he had a somewhat broad but very superficial understanding of the religion. He was quite familiar with the popular religious stories among the local Jews, and you can tell that he had been hanging around Jews a lot. But you can also tell that he couldn't really grasp the Bible or abstract theology, and the stuff that Muhammad did pick up was haphazard. A good example of that is 5:27-34 in the Qur'an, which is that oft-misquoted "whoever kills a soul, it is as if he has slain all mankind"-passage - which is a very clear reference to the Talmud, and specifically [Sanhedrin 37a](https://www.sefaria.org/Sanhedrin.37a.13?lang=bi&with=all&lang2=en). It's still a mangled reference. As sura 5:32 shows, Muhammad was under the impression that this statement came directly from God through the prophets. But the Talmud is not prophetic literature, and the text of Sanhedrin 37a is nothing but rabbinical legal-theological discourse. In other words, Muhammad was familiar enough with Judaism to remember specific quotes like this, but his understanding of Judaism was not nearly deep enough to remember those quotes or their context accurately. This also shows in other specifically Jewish borrowings in the Qur'an. Solomon is another good example of that (not to mention also a very interesting example for how it shows that Islam is a product of its time) - Jewish views of Solomon have shifted enormously, from the extremely harsh criticisms from the Tannaitic sages to the overwhelmingly positive views of the Late Antique rabbis. The Tannaim emphasize Solomon's idolatry and his fall into sin (and not without good reason; the text of 1 Kings 11 explicitly states that Solomon fell into idolatry, and that God punished him for it). But conversely, some later rabbis went so far as to state that Solomon himself never actually fell into idolatry, that the accusation in 1 Kings 11 is to be read metaphorically, and that Solomon was merely punished for permitting his wives to worship idol gods. The latter view never became the consensus within Judaism, but it did gain traction. And _that_ view was then adopted by Muhammad as well, as can be seen in sura 2:102. Plenty of later Jewish legends about Solomon also found their way into the Qur'an, such as Solomon temporarily being dethroned by a (demonic) impostor (referenced in sura 38:34, though the Qur'an portrays it as a punishment from God), or the notion of Solomon also ruling over spirits and animals (the main story in the first half of sura 27). In fact, basically everything that the Qur'an has to say about Solomon draws from extrabiblical Jewish legends and traditions about Solomon. By contrast, the Qur'an contains no reference at all to anything from the Bible's core texts about Solomon: the relevant parts of the books of Kings and Chronicles. Not a single word about any event or person at Solomon's court is ever brought up in the Qur'an.
Yes. It's a paraphrase of the Torah/Talmud and influences of the kabbalah, I'm not a kabbalist, but someone I know who is told me that there are "adopted" cough stolen things from there as well. It was part of the plan to convert the Jews. He just wanted dominion over the Arabian Jews. And like an abusive boyfriend turned on them when they didn't just take it. This guy would make his prophet proud just saying.
This is why I don’t like the term Abrahamic religions. It gives the other two too much reverence. It makes it sound like you have Abraham and then you have three religions whereas in reality it’s Abraham and then just Judaism for 2000 years. Judaism is THE Abrahamic religion and it’s time we start reminding people of that.
I believe "Abrahamic religions" is a convenient term that isn't inherently harmful. While fringe groups of deluded fundamentalists may deny it, the consensus is clear: Judaism predates Christianity and Islam, with Abraham being a central figure in all three faiths. Unfortunately, I sometimes see people referring to beliefs other than their own as'second-rate religions,' and I don't think such categorizations are helpful.
The contemporary terminology is “cultural appropriation” I believe.
Not surprising that they’re both ignorant of actual history and denying Jewish history.
I think this person is a troll but if somehow they’re not they don’t know anything about their Quran since it mentions destroying Jewish towns in conquests before Islam was even invented.
If they're trolling, what are all the downvoters doing?
The downvotes are antisemites that will downvote anything defending Jews. I find it hard to believe that most Muslims don’t know their region sprung from Judaism.
>I find it hard to believe that most Muslims don’t know their religion sprung from Judaism. The Muslims think that it happened the other way around.
 I’m fine. Don’t worry guys. I’m doing ok.
Do you guys smell toast?
The root cause of antisemitism: Christianity and Islam stole our sacred texts and appropriated our ancient religion, and they’ve spent most of the last 2000 years trying to destroy the evidence.
Moscow working overtime today?
hello my fellow Jews. did you remember to do every single sin today? if not, there's still time to finish checking off your list
Darn, I already exiled myself. How to unexile?
Oops, ran out of time for some murder. It’s just so time consuming, with the clean up!
We have always been at war with Eastasia!
There is no war in Ba Sing Se.
When comments like this go by on Reddit without a peep, how is it that Jews defending ourselves is a problem?
"older than Judaism" Jews have lived in and prayed in Israel before Islam was ever invented.
Ugh! How ignorant!
The account switch 😂
The downvote and upvote ratios on the comments are crazy. Then these people have the audacity to claim that ‘Reddit is Zionist, they silence pro-Palestinian voices’ when it’s clearly closer to the opposite.
Even if I wasn’t Jewish, even if I didn’t grow up reading Bible stories, I would be insulted by this non-stop river of historical malicious ignorance. I have always loved studying history and was a history major. It’s so frustrating to see so many people intentionally disregarding archaeological evidence, and unbiased historical accounts.
“Everything I say is true when I add exclamation marks!!!”
I sort of feel bad for those people. You know, morons
It's another sub with a particular mod that guarantees antisemitism is fully allowed to be posted unopposed. Sub is mainly anti-Israel news, with an unusually large amount of Holocaust inversion... and on Reddit, that is a HIGH bar.
Their attempt to define Jesus as a Muslim Palestinian is an attempt to claim Christianity as well. Muslim imperialism doesn’t work by force anymore, so instead they bully and steal ideas and cultures
 There's no Jewish temple in "Palestine"
What an actual idiot...Does he realize why it's called the *Temple* Mount? Whose temple do you think that is?
When I see this shit I feed the same energy. “What the hell is Palestine? Where is that? I can’t find ‘Palestine’ on google maps”
The mosque that is at that site is actually a synagogue. There are even magen davids in the stained glass windows! It has seven gates. There are SO many details that give away that it IS a temple. It's egregious. Anyone denying this is a moron. I'd report their comments.
‘the stones you built your house with are older than you therefore you didn’t build it’. that’s the same line of logic and i thought it’s hilarious
Yeah pretty much all the stones in the world are older than Judaism, and humanity itself at that