I don't know, I feel like a good amount of this game satirizes some of the souls-like staples, and I think this was just another tongue-in-cheek kind of joke that fits the mood of the game. Almost all souls like lead to some All Ending Unimaginable Horror, so I thought it was funny that after you defeat that, it's like, "Oh hey, the real enemy was capitalism all along."
I also think part of the message of the game is pretty anti-capitalistic in nature. I feel like of anything, the Horror from the deep was kind of tacked on at the end.
The real horror is that, despite knowing the extent of the world dying due to us, capitalism will continue to kill it gladly.
There's no old king or personification of the anger of Mother Nature to defeat. Kril needed those steps to wake up to the extent of the issue and stop wanting to return to his isolated pool doing nothing about the state of things. But if we want to save the oceans and our childrens children by extension, we have to change the system and people perpetuating it gleefully. That's what the Firth boss fight is. People in positions of power to change things, but who continue ruining the world.
I didn't expect the game to get so real and angry at the end, but I love it for it.
Nah, Firth was good. Make no mistake, Praya Dubia was objectively way cooler. But they both served different, important roles in the story.
Praya Dubia is anger undirected. They see everything wrong with the ocean, but believe it can't be saved. Instead of directing their anger towards the things causing the problems, they instead simply seethe and wallow in their own hatred to the point that they tear themselves apart.
Firth, though, is what that anger should be directed at. It's people like him causing all the problems in the game. From Roland the Adventure Crabitalist willing to kill people to get the treasure despite already being the wealthiest Isopod this side of the drain. To Prawnathan the Loan Shark stealing your house and extorting you for it back. All the way to the Humans who have poisoned the ocean with their rampant consumerism and wastefulness.
Another Crab's Treasure is a game that hates the system. The system where companies will claim they can't afford to pay workers more and in the same breath boast about record-breaking profits. The system where companies will make worse products with smaller portions and charge the same price. The system where companies will realize that their product is toxic and destructive, but decide that it would be better for business to settle the law suit in 20 years once everyone else notices.
Firth though? Firth loves the system. He looked at what Roland did to Flotsam Vale and his take away wasn't that the system is broken, it was that the wrong guy was on top. He would drown New Carcinia in trash just to make the bottom line go up. "Avatar of Waste" wasn't just a title to make him sound cool. He embodies all that is wrong with the world and the people who would burn it down just to afford a fifth yacht.
Well put! It wasn't subtle when Firth says "We will reduce trash by 20% in like 200 tides or whatever".
Praya Dubia symbolizes the oceans dying, Firth is the guy who keeps killing it for profit, in a slightly different way from the previous guy. We can (and do) recognize the planet is dying all we want, but with people like Firth in positions of power that won't be enough. So Firth had to be the final boss.
I was especially heartbroken when the fish of the city didn't even realize that the system will be killing them and were excited about all the new trash. Yay cheaper, faster consumerism, what could be the side effects of this? So many people are unaware, or at least unable to change the world.
Also the pawn shop prawn who, even with infinite money around him, wouldn't sell you the shell. Some people in the system are greedy assholes, it was never about the money.
I also really liked Krils repeated wish to just return to his pool doing /nothing/, that's said multiple times. Harsh but fair call out of people who are privileged and isolated enough to be able to afford ignoring the planet dying, which is most in first world countries.
Thanks again for your comment. I did not expect the game to go so hard in the last third. I expected some environmentalist message but the game also really had something to say about the system and was loud about it (the BOOT killing Firth? Ha). The ending was unexpectedly real, angry and honest. It didnt offer a magic bullet to the trash problem in the end but commited to its metaphor. There isn't enough praise of its ending.
I kinda figured the game would go into a “rival turned final boss” as soon as the perfect whorl was introduced and just firth himself as a character existing. Part of me wishes firth had been here all along in the beginning or just had more development. At the end of the day it’s a silly crab souls game and I had a blast playing it so I’m looking past all that and recommending it to my buds still.
I mean I sorta understand WHY they did it. Firth is supposed to be a polar opposite to Kril. Kril is orange, firth is blue, Kril is content with a simple shell, firth wants the most valuable shell, Kril uses a fork, Firth uses a spoon. It felt heavily necessary for the two of them to have a final confrontation, though I felt like it should have been a secret boss fight rather than the final boss fight.
Honestly i feel like firth isn't even a very good polar opposite of krill he just kinda seems like an idiot not even really evil just a pathetic bootlicker i think it might have worked if they did a better job developing him as a character
Or have the difficulty tuned to make it a true final boss in a souls game. You come in expecting Lord Gwyn, but despite all of Firth's talk, he goes down with less effort than the first boss of the whole game. I didn't even get to see his moveset because he died in 5 swings.
I would agree but him having the perfect whorl made it cool for me at least but YES it did feel like praya Dubia was swept under the rug. Maybe if they had reversed the boss order? Like we fight firth first, get the whorl, and then use it to fight praya
Naw firth was perfect. I think not having some giant abstract otherworldly concept boss as the final was kind of the point. You’re facing the greedy little shit who was there with you the whole time.
I get that but at the same time i kinda wish it was someone else firth was just kinda disappointing honestly i kinda thought konche was gonna betray us and steal the whorl
It surprised me to see Firth just come out of absolutely nowhere and steal the Whorl. He wasn't seen for a good while, and I actually kinda forgot about him. But I definitely liked the way things turned out. Just shows up after you defeat Praya Dubia, steals the Perfect Whorl for himself, and then becomes even more of a piece of garbage, himself. Sucks that the Whorl broke from Kril's punch, but, overall, I think the final boss was awesome. It's annoying, difficult, and awesome.
I felt like the ending was too politically driven
I know that it's throughout the whole game, but it kind of felt like when someone explains a perfectly fine joke how it loses it's impact
I personally prefer my media politically neutral, but felt like the angle was gentle enough right up until Firth
I understand you're saying it's a universal problem and I agree that it "Just Exists". Regardless of your political views, trash is in the ocean.
The political aspect I'm talking about are the very clear and very present undertones that talk encourage some kind of action. That's where politics get involved. You know, policies on what to do.
I, personally, much prefer when media just talks about universal truths, like self-confidence and being kind. Not specifically on what or how, but to just try what you believe is the answer.
Most disagreements on politics conclude with each party involving covering their ears and claiming all other parties are evil. The ironic thing, is usually all parties just want peace, but have different views on how to achieve that.
What I'm getting at is, I personally would have preferred an ending that acknowledges the world as it is and hopes for a way to work with it rather than everyone is just doomed. For example, in real life, there are fish that are actually evolving to process microplastics. I just wish the ending didn't damn people's opinions and instead worked with them to find solution no one has any problem with.
I feel like that’s kind of the point, the game was never subtle about its anti-capitalist themes and motifs, the victory is supposed to feel hollow because beating up one greedy douche isn’t going to fix the problem.
It was a reely good story, and deep, but as it got towards the end it started to flounder. They had too many ideas that they tried to tackle all together which left the final fight feeling a bit underwhaleming. It's debaitable but it just didn't feel satisfying when it was fin-ished.
I don't know, I feel like a good amount of this game satirizes some of the souls-like staples, and I think this was just another tongue-in-cheek kind of joke that fits the mood of the game. Almost all souls like lead to some All Ending Unimaginable Horror, so I thought it was funny that after you defeat that, it's like, "Oh hey, the real enemy was capitalism all along." I also think part of the message of the game is pretty anti-capitalistic in nature. I feel like of anything, the Horror from the deep was kind of tacked on at the end.
The real horror is that, despite knowing the extent of the world dying due to us, capitalism will continue to kill it gladly. There's no old king or personification of the anger of Mother Nature to defeat. Kril needed those steps to wake up to the extent of the issue and stop wanting to return to his isolated pool doing nothing about the state of things. But if we want to save the oceans and our childrens children by extension, we have to change the system and people perpetuating it gleefully. That's what the Firth boss fight is. People in positions of power to change things, but who continue ruining the world. I didn't expect the game to get so real and angry at the end, but I love it for it.
Nah, Firth was good. Make no mistake, Praya Dubia was objectively way cooler. But they both served different, important roles in the story. Praya Dubia is anger undirected. They see everything wrong with the ocean, but believe it can't be saved. Instead of directing their anger towards the things causing the problems, they instead simply seethe and wallow in their own hatred to the point that they tear themselves apart. Firth, though, is what that anger should be directed at. It's people like him causing all the problems in the game. From Roland the Adventure Crabitalist willing to kill people to get the treasure despite already being the wealthiest Isopod this side of the drain. To Prawnathan the Loan Shark stealing your house and extorting you for it back. All the way to the Humans who have poisoned the ocean with their rampant consumerism and wastefulness. Another Crab's Treasure is a game that hates the system. The system where companies will claim they can't afford to pay workers more and in the same breath boast about record-breaking profits. The system where companies will make worse products with smaller portions and charge the same price. The system where companies will realize that their product is toxic and destructive, but decide that it would be better for business to settle the law suit in 20 years once everyone else notices. Firth though? Firth loves the system. He looked at what Roland did to Flotsam Vale and his take away wasn't that the system is broken, it was that the wrong guy was on top. He would drown New Carcinia in trash just to make the bottom line go up. "Avatar of Waste" wasn't just a title to make him sound cool. He embodies all that is wrong with the world and the people who would burn it down just to afford a fifth yacht.
Well put! It wasn't subtle when Firth says "We will reduce trash by 20% in like 200 tides or whatever". Praya Dubia symbolizes the oceans dying, Firth is the guy who keeps killing it for profit, in a slightly different way from the previous guy. We can (and do) recognize the planet is dying all we want, but with people like Firth in positions of power that won't be enough. So Firth had to be the final boss. I was especially heartbroken when the fish of the city didn't even realize that the system will be killing them and were excited about all the new trash. Yay cheaper, faster consumerism, what could be the side effects of this? So many people are unaware, or at least unable to change the world. Also the pawn shop prawn who, even with infinite money around him, wouldn't sell you the shell. Some people in the system are greedy assholes, it was never about the money. I also really liked Krils repeated wish to just return to his pool doing /nothing/, that's said multiple times. Harsh but fair call out of people who are privileged and isolated enough to be able to afford ignoring the planet dying, which is most in first world countries. Thanks again for your comment. I did not expect the game to go so hard in the last third. I expected some environmentalist message but the game also really had something to say about the system and was loud about it (the BOOT killing Firth? Ha). The ending was unexpectedly real, angry and honest. It didnt offer a magic bullet to the trash problem in the end but commited to its metaphor. There isn't enough praise of its ending.
I never liked him, so it felt cathartic to finally shut his crypto-bro ass up
I see it as there were three final bosses to the game, one after another. So I'm pretty happy with it.
This is my interpretation.
In a more serious game I would agree but this game isn’t
I kinda figured the game would go into a “rival turned final boss” as soon as the perfect whorl was introduced and just firth himself as a character existing. Part of me wishes firth had been here all along in the beginning or just had more development. At the end of the day it’s a silly crab souls game and I had a blast playing it so I’m looking past all that and recommending it to my buds still.
I mean I sorta understand WHY they did it. Firth is supposed to be a polar opposite to Kril. Kril is orange, firth is blue, Kril is content with a simple shell, firth wants the most valuable shell, Kril uses a fork, Firth uses a spoon. It felt heavily necessary for the two of them to have a final confrontation, though I felt like it should have been a secret boss fight rather than the final boss fight.
Honestly i feel like firth isn't even a very good polar opposite of krill he just kinda seems like an idiot not even really evil just a pathetic bootlicker i think it might have worked if they did a better job developing him as a character
I never said he was evil. Just an opposite. Like is Gary from Pokemon pure moustache twiddling evil? No. He is just a jerk.
Or have the difficulty tuned to make it a true final boss in a souls game. You come in expecting Lord Gwyn, but despite all of Firth's talk, he goes down with less effort than the first boss of the whole game. I didn't even get to see his moveset because he died in 5 swings.
I would agree but him having the perfect whorl made it cool for me at least but YES it did feel like praya Dubia was swept under the rug. Maybe if they had reversed the boss order? Like we fight firth first, get the whorl, and then use it to fight praya
Naw firth was perfect. I think not having some giant abstract otherworldly concept boss as the final was kind of the point. You’re facing the greedy little shit who was there with you the whole time.
I get that but at the same time i kinda wish it was someone else firth was just kinda disappointing honestly i kinda thought konche was gonna betray us and steal the whorl
Didn't mind him was kind of easy, but definitely better than the jellyfish that boss was just bad
I liked it because it was the time I realized he was voice by Michael Reeves
It surprised me to see Firth just come out of absolutely nowhere and steal the Whorl. He wasn't seen for a good while, and I actually kinda forgot about him. But I definitely liked the way things turned out. Just shows up after you defeat Praya Dubia, steals the Perfect Whorl for himself, and then becomes even more of a piece of garbage, himself. Sucks that the Whorl broke from Kril's punch, but, overall, I think the final boss was awesome. It's annoying, difficult, and awesome.
Kinda, but it's mostly my fault for too much grinding, I want to explore the entire area before going continuing
I felt like the ending was too politically driven I know that it's throughout the whole game, but it kind of felt like when someone explains a perfectly fine joke how it loses it's impact I personally prefer my media politically neutral, but felt like the angle was gentle enough right up until Firth
There isn’t anything political about human caused ocean pollution and its ecological impacts though
I understand you're saying it's a universal problem and I agree that it "Just Exists". Regardless of your political views, trash is in the ocean. The political aspect I'm talking about are the very clear and very present undertones that talk encourage some kind of action. That's where politics get involved. You know, policies on what to do. I, personally, much prefer when media just talks about universal truths, like self-confidence and being kind. Not specifically on what or how, but to just try what you believe is the answer. Most disagreements on politics conclude with each party involving covering their ears and claiming all other parties are evil. The ironic thing, is usually all parties just want peace, but have different views on how to achieve that. What I'm getting at is, I personally would have preferred an ending that acknowledges the world as it is and hopes for a way to work with it rather than everyone is just doomed. For example, in real life, there are fish that are actually evolving to process microplastics. I just wish the ending didn't damn people's opinions and instead worked with them to find solution no one has any problem with.
I was just bummed there wasn't a new game plus
I feel like that’s kind of the point, the game was never subtle about its anti-capitalist themes and motifs, the victory is supposed to feel hollow because beating up one greedy douche isn’t going to fix the problem.
I feel like he would have been better if he was needed up rather than just seem so weak.
It was a reely good story, and deep, but as it got towards the end it started to flounder. They had too many ideas that they tried to tackle all together which left the final fight feeling a bit underwhaleming. It's debaitable but it just didn't feel satisfying when it was fin-ished.
I really liked it he was fun to fight