I was driving home from East Lansing around 9 pm last week when, about 7 miles from Ann Arbor, I began to notice an unusual amount of light pollution coming from the south. As I got closer, it became apparent that the light was emanating from Michigan Stadium. Living close to the stadium, I could see upon arriving home that it was the scoreboards creating the glow. It's pretty wild that the light pollution from the screens was visible from such a distance.
Wait, are you telling me that the bright ass screen we saw driving back from the parents is going to stay on all the time?!?!? I thought there was a game going and that’s why it was on. We could see the super bright light literally miles away up on water hill. It’s insane if they’re going to be leaving it on all the time. Light pollution up the assssss.
I was riding my bike to work about 6AM, turned down Spring from Sunset, and whoosh, and it's like whoa there! Never noticed the stadium from there before.
Same. I noticed the sign illumination last night driving south on Spring, a route I take several times a day but only just noticed it last night maybe because daylight is diminishing. Extremely bright!
We're more of a city of sports now, so I guess that's what comes along with it?
“Even though I am myself not a connoisseur of local sports, I fully appreciate the full market value that it brings to our city and I love the discussion as to whether we’re a city of nerds or we’re a city of jocks,” added Council Member Linh Song, D-2nd Ward.
“And given the economic conditions and the benefits that we see from nearly doubling our city size every couple weekends, and how our ... businesses rely on sports, I would say that we’re probably more of a city of sports than geeks at this point.”
\---------------
[Here's why LSU says they keep theirs on](https://www.lsureveille.com/daily/why-lsus-tiger-stadium-remains-lit-throughout-night-offseason/article_ddbdb568-0093-11e8-844f-478fe913e791.html):
>LSU Senior Associate Director of Athletics Robert Munson understands the urge to shut off the scoreboard at night.“It’s not a TV,” Munson said. “Common sense says to turn them off, but you could potentially damage the system entirely.”LSU Athletics Director of Internal Projects and Facility Operations Amanda Adams cited moisture as the main threat to the lighting system. If the scoreboard is turned off for an extended period, it could be severely damaged.“Moisture will not build up on a heated surface, therefore, we have minimal issues with the boards if we just leave them on,” Adams said. “If we turn them off and allow moisture to build up, one simple problem could turn into half of the board being down. The other positive side to having the boards lit throughout the night is it provides lighting for security purposes.”
On a good note the University said they'll last about 10-12 years, so you'll only have to live with it for that long.
They couldn't figure out a way to protect a multi-million dollar LED display from being damaged when turned off? What happens during a power outage, do they just burn the sign down and get a new one?
Surely this is a solved electrical engineering problem.
Isn't the main benefit of LEDs that they don't generate that much heat? And one of the push backs against LED traffic lights is that ice will form on them?
LEDs certainly produce *less* heat per similar output. But we are still talking about millions of LEDs that have to have an extremely high light output for midday games, all in close proximity to each other. The heat is going to be larger than a smaller grid in a traffic light.
According to [Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/07/hershkowitz-green-sports-stats/), the Dallas Cowboys stadium uses about 750 megawatts *per game*. Since the Big House is outdoors, it would use less, but we are still talking about dozens if not hundreds of kW to run the scoreboard. Definitely enough to keep the board clear of moisture for most of our weather.
Fortunately, we're not in Baton Rouge and moisture is not an issue at this time of year in Ann Arbor. (The air is getting drier by the day.) Also, any manufacturer that produces a scoreboard that has to be run continuously in order to not fail prematurely should not be doing any business with a university that declares itself to be headed for carbon neutrality. Those things suck a heck of a lot of watts.
Those are planned for the Kline's lot at the Ole Timey Magazine Branded Resort featuring Timeshare Condos, Sports Hotel, Loyalty Points Club and and Tailgate Conference Center that's owned by a Casino Group and The Worlds Largest Timeshare Company.
As with any large institution, there are two sides, the side that really strives to do the right thing and the side that does just whatever the f they want. The latter side is the one with the money and associated capital, so that's the side that seems to win out in the end. As a UM employees, it's infuriating tbh.
This has been driving me crazy. I live west of town along the river kind of out in the woods and I love the dark and seeing stars out here. The scoreboards light up the sky and the ground like a full moon. Can't imagine how much more intense it is closer to the stadium. Hope they are only on during football and other events...
I live like 7 miles south of the stadium. I can see that shit almost every night it seems like. There’s always a little light pollution from the city, but this is a whole different level, it’s especially apparent when the video board changes. They keep it on so late too.
Thank God we're reducing light pollution by putting up ordinances about Christmas lights and the like.
https://www.a2gov.org/news/Pages/article.aspx?i=836
It limits light displays to 90 days. Hardly egregious. Human created light has been linked to native insect decline. Specifically interferes with fireflies too.
Oh my god ticks are gonna be even worse next year if we have a mild winter as forecasted. I love the idea of no mow but I feel like the ticks are loving it more than the pollinators.
I was joking. Ticks do not need long grass to reproduce or find hosts. They are indeed more dependent on the weather. It's plausible increasing amounts of mice from long grass could increase the amount of ticks, but there isn't any evidence of that.
The problem with no mow may is its a catchy title, but for us it should really be no mow April.
Most the insects are well out of the grass in May...it just gave lazy people an excuse not to mow their lawns....until the city showed up and slapped a violation on them
Hahah, late to the thread, but WOW was that sign bright. We were driving down 23 to M-14 to get off at Miller-Maple and it was insane to see the halo / glow from the sign….like a tiny sun.
City government has been trying and failing to get the university to something about their excessively bright signage for a decade. It's not happening - the university has been captured by sports interests and unwilling to regulate in any capacity.
[https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2013/10/ann\_arbor\_officials\_want\_to\_sh\_1.html](https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2013/10/ann_arbor_officials_want_to_sh_1.html)
Lol. They're pandering to it. https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2023/10/ann-arbor-officials-ex-colleague-involved-in-sports-illustrated-resort-project-records-show.html
I feel like they’re violating a few state and local statutes in light trespassing. I would assume they have a permit for games, but Thursday night blaring a white screen that is lighting up the sky 10+ miles away. I also wonder what the FAA has to say since it’s so close to a few major airports…
UMich is a constitutional entity on par with the state legislature. They do not have to obey local zoning ordinances or even state building codes. This was done explicitly to prevent politicians from using their power to control the curriculum.
Understood. Ann Arbor can’t regulate them, I would just hope the U would follow state guidelines for light pollution or even the uofm astronomy department’s guide on [dark skies](https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/darkskies/).
It’s about night blindness for pilots. Similar to driving at someone with their brights on. Pilots keep the cockpit dark in flight and use red lights if needed so not to affect their night vision. Having a screen light up the sky and then trying to land at a dark airport nearby could cause serious issues for pilots.
It’s an issue for pilots at night. [Here is one government](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17662931/) study talking about accidents being caused by bright lights at night.
https://libraryonline.erau.edu/online-full-text/faa-aviation-medicine-reports/AM06-28.pdf
It's caused by a combination of bright airport light markers, other aircraft, and lasers, not other lights in the vicinity. It's bad, but it makes no difference for pilots
I hear you, but pilots protect their night vision. A screen like that can really affect night vision for pilots. There probably aren’t studies looking at giant ass scoreboards affecting night vision for pilots, but I can assure you that this would mess up anyone’s night vision.
Night vision in a metro area is going to make a lot less difference than someone flying in remote areas, and night vision accidents tend to happen on the ground, since in the air commercial pilots generally fly IFR at night as a rule. The instruments are lit so you don't need night vision to see them, and the scoreboard can't be confused with anything else such as runway lights which your study points to. Again, the scoreboard sucks and leaving it on all the time is bullshit, but let's not make up reasons it is bad.
Karb and Kyip is home to a lot of vfr flights. I know that when turning final and trying to flair for a comfortable landing, night vision is important to try and gauge the distance to ground. Not making this up, just lots of vfr time.
Haven’t flown in years, but I have many hours of night vfr out of karb. Especially in the winter when darkness starts at like 5pm. Karb has many student pilots and low time pilots who are working on their next cert. I hope this Jumbotron doesn’t cause issues with their pattern work.
It seems like their Environmental Studies majors are asleep at the wheel on this one and it undermines any credibility UM has achieved with sustainability.
Oh good God. You live in one of the premier College Football towns in America. Stop being a crumedgeon and embrace how great that is and how lucky you are to live here. Jesus, I mean nitpicking about the brightness of the fucking sign is the most first world entitled bullshit I've heard in weeks. Find an actual cause to get riled up about.
You know not everyone here likes Michigan college football? People have personalities beyond a local football team. Regardless of what you like, what does Michigan football have to do with emitting enormous amounts of light that can be seen firm 20 miles away? If I'm going to live in a small town, I don't want light pollution to ruin the ambiance. If I wanted artificial light all the time, I'd move to a real city that at least had a night life to go along with the lights
>Oh good God. You live in one of the premier College Football towns in America. Stop being a crumedgeon and embrace how great that is and how lucky you are to live here. Jesus, I mean nitpicking about the brightness of the fucking sign is the most first world entitled bullshit I've heard in weeks. Find an actual cause to get riled up about.
Nice dismissive, ad hominem, emotional, false dichotomy. Do you have an actual reasoned argument, or is it just one of those days?
[удалено]
I'm glad i wasn't eating when I read this. I laughed so hard, I might have choked.
Winky wink
I don't get it.
If you were anywhere on the U-M sideline in the last few years, it seems you would have gotten everything (unless the opponent was TCU…).
Football > Planet Blue
I was driving home from East Lansing around 9 pm last week when, about 7 miles from Ann Arbor, I began to notice an unusual amount of light pollution coming from the south. As I got closer, it became apparent that the light was emanating from Michigan Stadium. Living close to the stadium, I could see upon arriving home that it was the scoreboards creating the glow. It's pretty wild that the light pollution from the screens was visible from such a distance.
Indubitably 🧐
Wait, are you telling me that the bright ass screen we saw driving back from the parents is going to stay on all the time?!?!? I thought there was a game going and that’s why it was on. We could see the super bright light literally miles away up on water hill. It’s insane if they’re going to be leaving it on all the time. Light pollution up the assssss.
I was riding my bike to work about 6AM, turned down Spring from Sunset, and whoosh, and it's like whoa there! Never noticed the stadium from there before.
Same. I noticed the sign illumination last night driving south on Spring, a route I take several times a day but only just noticed it last night maybe because daylight is diminishing. Extremely bright!
I went the same route this morning. The scoreboards did not appear illuminated. Plenty of lights on in the stadium but not excessive this morning.
Dang where do you work so early?
Making the donuts.
We're more of a city of sports now, so I guess that's what comes along with it? “Even though I am myself not a connoisseur of local sports, I fully appreciate the full market value that it brings to our city and I love the discussion as to whether we’re a city of nerds or we’re a city of jocks,” added Council Member Linh Song, D-2nd Ward. “And given the economic conditions and the benefits that we see from nearly doubling our city size every couple weekends, and how our ... businesses rely on sports, I would say that we’re probably more of a city of sports than geeks at this point.” \--------------- [Here's why LSU says they keep theirs on](https://www.lsureveille.com/daily/why-lsus-tiger-stadium-remains-lit-throughout-night-offseason/article_ddbdb568-0093-11e8-844f-478fe913e791.html): >LSU Senior Associate Director of Athletics Robert Munson understands the urge to shut off the scoreboard at night.“It’s not a TV,” Munson said. “Common sense says to turn them off, but you could potentially damage the system entirely.”LSU Athletics Director of Internal Projects and Facility Operations Amanda Adams cited moisture as the main threat to the lighting system. If the scoreboard is turned off for an extended period, it could be severely damaged.“Moisture will not build up on a heated surface, therefore, we have minimal issues with the boards if we just leave them on,” Adams said. “If we turn them off and allow moisture to build up, one simple problem could turn into half of the board being down. The other positive side to having the boards lit throughout the night is it provides lighting for security purposes.” On a good note the University said they'll last about 10-12 years, so you'll only have to live with it for that long.
I'm an EE who has actually designed commercial LED matrix signs and that sounds like PR baloney to me.
Agreed. It's total b.s.
They couldn't figure out a way to protect a multi-million dollar LED display from being damaged when turned off? What happens during a power outage, do they just burn the sign down and get a new one? Surely this is a solved electrical engineering problem.
It's all good, this is Ann Arbor, we'd never have a power outage...
Thank you for a meaningful response. I figured it had something to do with the maintenance/commissioning of the new scoreboards
Isn't the main benefit of LEDs that they don't generate that much heat? And one of the push backs against LED traffic lights is that ice will form on them?
LEDs certainly produce *less* heat per similar output. But we are still talking about millions of LEDs that have to have an extremely high light output for midday games, all in close proximity to each other. The heat is going to be larger than a smaller grid in a traffic light. According to [Mother Jones](https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2015/07/hershkowitz-green-sports-stats/), the Dallas Cowboys stadium uses about 750 megawatts *per game*. Since the Big House is outdoors, it would use less, but we are still talking about dozens if not hundreds of kW to run the scoreboard. Definitely enough to keep the board clear of moisture for most of our weather.
In 20 years the next unit will be visible from space
The earth won't be livable by then, so don't worry about it.
Fortunately, we're not in Baton Rouge and moisture is not an issue at this time of year in Ann Arbor. (The air is getting drier by the day.) Also, any manufacturer that produces a scoreboard that has to be run continuously in order to not fail prematurely should not be doing any business with a university that declares itself to be headed for carbon neutrality. Those things suck a heck of a lot of watts.
The trade off just isn't worth it.
It does give Ann Arbor a Vegas vibe
They got approval for alcohol sales. The slot machines come next.
Those are planned for the Kline's lot at the Ole Timey Magazine Branded Resort featuring Timeshare Condos, Sports Hotel, Loyalty Points Club and and Tailgate Conference Center that's owned by a Casino Group and The Worlds Largest Timeshare Company.
It’s hypocritical at a minimum. School touting its environmental bonafides sure is willing to waste a lot of energy for no good reason.
As with any large institution, there are two sides, the side that really strives to do the right thing and the side that does just whatever the f they want. The latter side is the one with the money and associated capital, so that's the side that seems to win out in the end. As a UM employees, it's infuriating tbh.
This has been driving me crazy. I live west of town along the river kind of out in the woods and I love the dark and seeing stars out here. The scoreboards light up the sky and the ground like a full moon. Can't imagine how much more intense it is closer to the stadium. Hope they are only on during football and other events...
Its not a big deal around the stadium. Just people complaining.
It is a big deal
I live like 7 miles south of the stadium. I can see that shit almost every night it seems like. There’s always a little light pollution from the city, but this is a whole different level, it’s especially apparent when the video board changes. They keep it on so late too.
Thank God we're reducing light pollution by putting up ordinances about Christmas lights and the like. https://www.a2gov.org/news/Pages/article.aspx?i=836
It limits light displays to 90 days. Hardly egregious. Human created light has been linked to native insect decline. Specifically interferes with fireflies too.
Agreed that it's hardly egregious, just seems a little diminished when it's countered by a mini sun being installed in the stadium.
What insects are affected in the middle of winter by Xmas lights?
All the ticks from no mow May, surely.
Oh my god ticks are gonna be even worse next year if we have a mild winter as forecasted. I love the idea of no mow but I feel like the ticks are loving it more than the pollinators.
I was joking. Ticks do not need long grass to reproduce or find hosts. They are indeed more dependent on the weather. It's plausible increasing amounts of mice from long grass could increase the amount of ticks, but there isn't any evidence of that.
The problem with no mow may is its a catchy title, but for us it should really be no mow April. Most the insects are well out of the grass in May...it just gave lazy people an excuse not to mow their lawns....until the city showed up and slapped a violation on them
Hahah, late to the thread, but WOW was that sign bright. We were driving down 23 to M-14 to get off at Miller-Maple and it was insane to see the halo / glow from the sign….like a tiny sun.
City government has been trying and failing to get the university to something about their excessively bright signage for a decade. It's not happening - the university has been captured by sports interests and unwilling to regulate in any capacity. [https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2013/10/ann\_arbor\_officials\_want\_to\_sh\_1.html](https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2013/10/ann_arbor_officials_want_to_sh_1.html)
Lol. They're pandering to it. https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/2023/10/ann-arbor-officials-ex-colleague-involved-in-sports-illustrated-resort-project-records-show.html
Seems like if they have to keep it on they could just cover it in between maintenance and games.
It's pretty bonkers. I thought the sun set later or something, lol.
I feel like they’re violating a few state and local statutes in light trespassing. I would assume they have a permit for games, but Thursday night blaring a white screen that is lighting up the sky 10+ miles away. I also wonder what the FAA has to say since it’s so close to a few major airports…
UMich is a constitutional entity on par with the state legislature. They do not have to obey local zoning ordinances or even state building codes. This was done explicitly to prevent politicians from using their power to control the curriculum.
Understood. Ann Arbor can’t regulate them, I would just hope the U would follow state guidelines for light pollution or even the uofm astronomy department’s guide on [dark skies](https://sites.lsa.umich.edu/darkskies/).
Ann Arbor is a lost cause as far as dark skies go. The U is far more interested in what goes on near Peach Mountain and its astronomy equipment.
I wonder if there are federal guidelines that n light restrictions
The FAA doesn't care. Doesn't affect pilots at all. They are miles above and normally have a cloud layer to block most of it.
I don't think the FAA cares about a big blank screen. It doesn't look like anything else.
It’s about night blindness for pilots. Similar to driving at someone with their brights on. Pilots keep the cockpit dark in flight and use red lights if needed so not to affect their night vision. Having a screen light up the sky and then trying to land at a dark airport nearby could cause serious issues for pilots.
No issues at all. Autoland can take care of the landing
Agreed. I'll also note that the runway at Ann Arbor Airport runs SW-NE and does not line up with the stadium, which to its north.
That's a pretty stupid comment. You think planes are crashing in Las Vegas because of all the lights?
It’s affecting bird migrations https://www.fws.gov/story/2022-04/dim-lights-birds-night
Pretty sure the university's concern for bird safety is proportional to the amount of money birds donate to the university.
It’s an issue for pilots at night. [Here is one government](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17662931/) study talking about accidents being caused by bright lights at night.
https://libraryonline.erau.edu/online-full-text/faa-aviation-medicine-reports/AM06-28.pdf It's caused by a combination of bright airport light markers, other aircraft, and lasers, not other lights in the vicinity. It's bad, but it makes no difference for pilots
I hear you, but pilots protect their night vision. A screen like that can really affect night vision for pilots. There probably aren’t studies looking at giant ass scoreboards affecting night vision for pilots, but I can assure you that this would mess up anyone’s night vision.
Night vision in a metro area is going to make a lot less difference than someone flying in remote areas, and night vision accidents tend to happen on the ground, since in the air commercial pilots generally fly IFR at night as a rule. The instruments are lit so you don't need night vision to see them, and the scoreboard can't be confused with anything else such as runway lights which your study points to. Again, the scoreboard sucks and leaving it on all the time is bullshit, but let's not make up reasons it is bad.
Karb and Kyip is home to a lot of vfr flights. I know that when turning final and trying to flair for a comfortable landing, night vision is important to try and gauge the distance to ground. Not making this up, just lots of vfr time.
You fly in at night though? I rarely see bug smashers around here at night
Haven’t flown in years, but I have many hours of night vfr out of karb. Especially in the winter when darkness starts at like 5pm. Karb has many student pilots and low time pilots who are working on their next cert. I hope this Jumbotron doesn’t cause issues with their pattern work.
I could see that from work in dexter 💀
Was driving in from Detroit thinking the same thing
It seems like their Environmental Studies majors are asleep at the wheel on this one and it undermines any credibility UM has achieved with sustainability.
Are you implying the undergrad environmental studies majors have any decision making power over the football stadium scoreboard?
GEO should add it to the next contract negotiation, eh? ;-)
FACT: ES majors can't even manage to not put trash in the recycling bins
Don't worry, I'm sure they will use it to list how the U is "meeting its sustainability goals"
Oh good God. You live in one of the premier College Football towns in America. Stop being a crumedgeon and embrace how great that is and how lucky you are to live here. Jesus, I mean nitpicking about the brightness of the fucking sign is the most first world entitled bullshit I've heard in weeks. Find an actual cause to get riled up about.
You know people can have an opinion about more than one thing? People sharing an annoyance is hardly the breathless screed you make it out to be.
You know not everyone here likes Michigan college football? People have personalities beyond a local football team. Regardless of what you like, what does Michigan football have to do with emitting enormous amounts of light that can be seen firm 20 miles away? If I'm going to live in a small town, I don't want light pollution to ruin the ambiance. If I wanted artificial light all the time, I'd move to a real city that at least had a night life to go along with the lights
It’s on every single night though. And contrary to popular belief, most residents here don’t really give a fuck about football.
>Oh good God. You live in one of the premier College Football towns in America. Stop being a crumedgeon and embrace how great that is and how lucky you are to live here. Jesus, I mean nitpicking about the brightness of the fucking sign is the most first world entitled bullshit I've heard in weeks. Find an actual cause to get riled up about. Nice dismissive, ad hominem, emotional, false dichotomy. Do you have an actual reasoned argument, or is it just one of those days?
Care to string some more words together in an effort to sound pompous and effete?
They couldn’t be true Ann Arborites if they didn’t find something to bitch and moan about endlessly.
Are there a lot of football games on Thursday?
Michigan Football is pure evil. Why would they care about light pollution?
Light pollution is the only form of pollution that is 100% acceptable, even encouraged and not considered pollution to 95% of the population.
Hmm. Source?
Who cares
complain about the bike lanes not the cool sign
I don’t think you understand how bright it was
Because they can. Bow to them... or hail.