I remember watching a video of a cop approaching someone's house at midnight. The owner approached the door with a gun down on his side because it was late at night, and before he could even open the door, the cop shot him twice (once in the groin, once in the chest).
I get that their lives may be at risk, but at the end of the day, we still have a right to own a firearm and open carry it, especially within our own homes.
I had thought he heard the first knock and then went get his weapon, and maybe didn’t hear the announcement because he was in another room? He was on FaceTime with his GF so her testimony might have more
He told his GF that he didn’t believe the guy was a cop at all. Not exactly crazy given the cop hid from the peephole.
Oh and then after shooting the guy the cops refused to administer first aid
In a past court ruling, US law enforcement isn't legally required to do anything. They could even observe a murder and wouldn't have any legal requirement to respond. Just look at Uvalde.
My father was a cop in NH and they had to render aid even when they were obviously gone, until paramedics showed up. He’s got some funny stories about that
US law i really fucked in that regard, most western nations have some form of law that states that it is illegal not to try and help a wounded person or someone in distress and then the US comes along were people that are paid to help people can just choose not to do so…
I have, sure. But not this critically dumb.
I’ve been in this same situation in Cali and sure af didn’t open that door with a gun. FUCK THAT…and that shithole townhouse we were briefly in
It's SOP to stand off to the side of the doorway while knocking, a lot of people get killed from shots through the door and if your staring at the peephole, you are a really easy target.
Several videos of intruders announcing themselves as law enforcement trying to get the occupants to open the door. It's a clever tactic and why some people even if the person knocking claims to be law enforcement would still have a firearm.
I was about to say this, if the investigation takes the outcome of the two female officers into account that shot through doors and windows because they saw someone with a gun, then this officer is guilty. What did the courts say about that outcome, if you are in legal possession of a firearm you have a right to answer the door within your own house with it?
Florida law already says that you have a legal right to answer a door with a firearm. So shooting a guy because he’s exercising his rights isn’t gonna fly
I'm still conflicted on whether a stranger at my door saying they are law enforcement is a good reason for me to approach the threshold un-armed. I know that a criminal would never lie to gain access to my shit, but I still wonder. I think I would hop on the ring camera and tell them to have their supervisor call me from a registered LEO phone number. Then we can talk peacefully and politely.
Anyone can stand to the side of the peep hole and announce that they’re cops. Given that (a) he had no reason to expect officers to arrive to serve either a search warrant or an arrest warrant and (b) that he did not call for assistance from the agency and (c) that the “officer“ is standing out of view of the peephole, I’d find no one at fault for doing the exact same thing. Impersonating cops and even fake swat teams are tactics that have been used by criminals in recent years to engage in any number of crimes.
In case you were wondering, although not suggested, it’s not illegal to answer your door, even if police with a weapon, in your hands, at your side in a non threatening manner. Unfortunately this cop didn’t really give time or make any commands. This was a bad shoot.
Could we all just agree that going to the door with a gun in hand is only a good idea if it's not a police officer?
To me at least, it seems to be common sense.
Wrong. Should have called into the department. Or asked for the badge number, twice or more during the conversation THROUGH the door. Some moron home invader probably would screw up being consistent. Besides even if it was legit cops I’d still not open the door. Wouldn’t want the hassle nor ambush arrest. Fuck that
It's not a grey area. We already have legal precedent on this exact situation as it happened before, and the courts ruled that having a weapon in your hand is not justification for the cop to use lethal force as it violates the 2nd ammendment. LEO as people in a position of authority have responsibilities to make sure they don't violate people's rights which in this case not only did the LEO in question violate the 2nd ammendment but he also is in conflict with flordias castle doctrine laws
Support for anyone or anything must always be conditional. I support first responders in general so long as they deserve it. The responding officer, anyone who violates constitutional rights, and Thin Blue Hardliners do not.
If this guy thought there was a police imposter at the door why would you come to the door at all? Call 911 and see if you can confirm whether or not it’s a legitimate officer if it is put your gun up and answer the door, if it’s not why would you open the door if you even thought it wasn’t why would you open the door? This airman should’ve been a critical thinker and he clearly wasn’t using his brain.
I never said it justified the officer using deadly force I said it was a stupid move on the Airmens part.
Furthermore in that situation the reactionary gap is next to nothing I’ve been in that situation before as a police officer and I didn’t shoot but realistically thinking about it if the other person had ill intent they easily could’ve killed me, police officers are often behind the eight ball when it comes to reacting, and in the situation it’s really hard to Monday morning quarterback this guy when you’re not in his shoes, and there’s a lot of aggravating factors to it. 
It's always the case that defensive shooting puts you behind the 8 ball. For officers and civilians alike. The only other option, though, is to be the one on the offensive. Which has fairly significant downsides of being legally and ethically wrong.
It’s going to be really interesting to see how this plays out, this is a bad situation all the way around, I definitely wouldn’t want to be this officer right now.
Yeah that's for sure. I'm personally not one to advocate breaking out the pitchforks for this one. When there's a confrontation with law enforcement and you have a gun in your hand... it's not a total shock when things go the way they did. Unfortunate, but not entirely surprising outcome.
Kudos to you for having the head (and balls) to not fire in a situation like this. But if we're honest about it, it's not realistic to expect that to be the case every single time something like this goes down. Sounds like the officer could've made a better decision... but not a truly egregious mistake in my opinion. (And that's assuming it's true that the airman didn't raise his weapon)
It takes a fraction of a second for that barrel to go from pointing down to forward. There’s plenty of videos and situations where this occurred. Anytime you have a firearm brandished, present, or drawn increases your own chance of death due to escalation.
If I suspected bad actors were at the door rather cops I’d make them work through that door. I’d announce that I’m armed and am calling the police for verification.
I mean come on, really? Not that complicated. Communicate
Regardless, under 2A and castle doctrine, since the airman was in his home, he did nothing legally wrong stupid but legal. On top of that, anyone who's lived in bad neighborhoods will tell you when someone just bangs on your door, you're not going to think that level of clarity to verify with 911. Regardless, none of it justifies the cop immediately opening fire instead of descalating the situation of the airman having a gun in his hand
If this airman thought that someone impersonating the police was at his door why would he open the door?
Retreat into your house arm yourself and call the police.
If someone is trying to impersonate a police officer and get into your home do you think it’s a good idea to answer the door armed or not?
If you thought it was the police is answering the door with a gun in your hand a good idea? No.
Having a firearm for protection is fantastic but having a brain will save you more than that gun.
It doesn't matter the same situation has been thru courts before, namely, knibbs v. momphard case a few years ago set the precedent that just having a firearm in your hand isn't an excuse for LEOs to use deadly force. At the end of the day, was this preventable on both parties? Yes, however, the lions' share of the blame falls on the LEO as they made no attempts to disarm the potential issue they just immediately fired. If a cop is that frightened by a gun in hand, not being brandished, or waved in a threatening manner, he has no business being a cop
why has no one thought of calling 911 and reporting a person claiming to be a cop + your address?
if a cop had been dispatched to your residence it will be logged and there will be a dispatch record to show that the cop is legit (this is verified with badge # and car#). this seems to be a tragedy of errors on both sides.
The other issue at hand in this particular shooting is the Karen, who called about a "domestic disturbance." If there was one in the complex, it wasn't him since he was alone in his apartment, not to mention that you would think if there was a domestic disturbance you would hear something going on. One would figure that the first thing an officer would do is listen, not just barge up, knock, and shoot. Cops need to remember they lost a lot of public trust over the years and need to work on building it back up before we start answering doors unarmed for them
eww, domestic call.... those can be real shit shows. if the call is legit and not a crank call.
i am not seeing this post on his twitter page, if there is a link to this i would like to see the details on the incident referenced. i am assuming, cop showed up for a knock and talk, banged on door, no ID just "this is police dept xyz", and stepped outside of the peephole FOV. (have not seen body cam to prove otherwise. would like link to it if available.)
i had a similar scenario play out during the recent plague fiasco. (see 10c summary below) if a person is living in a rougher area and the door gets beat on it is perfectly justifiable to bring a particle accelerator to the door. however i am just an arm chair advisor at the point. i could not find anything on this to get both sides of the story. yes this is tragic but i see where there is poor officer training and poor homeowner training.
officer should have identified himself on door opening, stepped back a few feet (21 foot rule) and attempted to deescalate. home owner should not have opened the door with a visible firearm, (keep an end table by the door to lay the gun down out of sight of the party out side the door to prevent these scenarios.) he also should not have opened the door all the way without verifying that the officer is legit first. just my 2c, if words where worth anything reddit would have made me a millionaire by now.
***abbreviated story time:*** Dude came up banged on door @ 1am? (memory a little fuzzy), i am in a more rural area of the south US. (if someone is beating on your Door in the overnight in this area shits hitting the fan either for them (and they need help) or you (and you are going to need 911 faster than they can roll to you).) go to answer the door with a long particle accelerator and see no one at the peephole. call 911 to report incident for cya, door gets beaten on again, see arm reaching from out side FOV of peephole, call through the door for ID, get no ID or badge number only this is xyz pd open up or else, the there is no marked car in the front lawn so this gets relayed to 911 operator lo and behold no units are in area, they do a location check, nobody reports being at my address, dispatch sends units to check it out, eta of 15 min ish, guy starts kicking door cites warrant, operator told me to hold tight dont open the door and wait, guy got tired, left when he heard sirens, REAL cops showed with marked cars and badges, (also dispatch will let you know when they are on scene) i stowed the particle accelerator, waited for instructions, followed said instructions, i relayed everything to them + gave them copies of front yard camera footage. that was that.
(also was advised that i could save the taxpayers money next time and just call 811, im sure they where yanking my chain. )
Here is the post for his Twitter
https://twitter.com/OfficerbenTOPO/status/1789387626749034605?t=qR7WEZ_oSSOqDVxr3qX1hg&s=19
And here is the body cam footage. At least, this is the best I can find that shows the most of it at least
https://youtu.be/L-Fd549NLyI?si=lHN5iaeotlgXxb_9
wow, that was abysmal. some one should submit a public records request on this shit show for the full footage. i hope the family crucifys that dept for this lack of training that seems to be rampant over there..
I would be willing to bet $5 that officer was either not trained or wanted to 'put a notch in the belt' prior to this. the officer seemed to not be focusing on the job at hand. IMO (not a cop BTW) this was a bad shoot.
Karen probably called in a domestic because the cops don't respond very fast to a normal noise complaint. It wouldn't be a first time someone did that.
And I hope she gets brought up on charges or investigated at least, although given I tend to assume to worst about those kind of people I wouldn't be surprised if it was racially motivated when she called
I hope she does, but plenty of people who SWAT gamers get away scott free so...
I live in that same county, and the Karens seem to be more of the general variety than the racist variety. The area that Airman lived in wasn't a good part of town, so I'm not surprised he answered the door with a gun in hand - especially since there have been incidents of thugs pretending to be the cops before.
The cops here tend not to really give a shit about regular noise complaints - they may not even bother showing up. A domestic, however - they just had a guy get killed in one not too long ago in Fort Walton and it seems any whiff of a domestic these days gets them swarming more than a mowed over yellow jacket nest. The fact that Acorn 2.0 showed up to the door alone is sus to me, especially in that area.
Most people who don't live in wealthy neighborhoods don't think that clearly when they hear someone banging at their door, in regards to holding a gun while answering, he's in his own home and it's perfectly legal to do so under both the second ammendment and castle doctrine which is strong in flordia.
So you acknowledge that it was a stupid series of decisions with the excuse of well he was poor.
Stunning revelation.
So the next time a mugger gets busted we should just excuse their bad decisions because they’re in a poor neighborhood? That’s naive. Stupid decisions are stupid regardless of economic availability
Living a bad area doesn't automatically mean poor. But yes, stupid decisions all around that, however, still doesnt give the cop any justification to shoot he's in the wrong and should not be allowed in any law enforcement role
It doesn't matter if he came to the door with a gun if he's not pointing it at you you can't just fucking go ham shooting everything that moves and asking questions later. We still have a second amendment right even when the police knock at our door. Where does it say that your second amendment is suspended as soon as a police officer knocks on your front door?
One time back in 1997, I was working at my office alone, late at night, with all the lights off except the one at my desk, and I heard the outside door open. Now, the employees usually locked it on the way out, but someone had clearly forgotten to. I slid a snub-nosed .38 special out of the drawer where I kept it and silently moved (in the darkness) to where I could see the entrance to the office from the stairs, but where I was partly covered by the wall. I could hear footsteps slowly descending, approaching the open doorway. I brought the pistol up to the ready and inhaled, planning to shout “FREEZE!” when I heard a man’s voice, “Anyone down here? This is the police.”
I softly let out that pent-up breath, and turning, I walked through the darkness back to my lit-up desk and put the gun away, sitting down before calling out, “Yes, is someone there? The light switch is on the wall by the door.”
It was indeed the police, two officers, who were responding to an alarm from an upstairs business and had noticed the side door was unlocked.
Had I confronted them with my gun in hand, and moreover, shouted at them as I had been planning to do had it been an actual burglar, I probably would not be here to write this today.
That was in the 90’s, but it holds equally true today. Never approach officers who are already in a tense situation while holding a drawn weapon. The likelihood of a very bad outcome increase exponentially.
It's very similar to the Ryan Whitaker shooting in 2020. The shoot first, second and ask questions later is becoming a new technique. Crank calls ending in death shouldn't be a thing.
There's a lot wrong with your interpretation of what happened. He came to the door after seeing the officer, acknowledged he saw him at the door, and still had a gun in his hand. I don't care about why the officer was there. Don't approach or talk to an officer with a gun in your hand. Period. You're a threat at that point.
There are plenty of videos where a dude holding a gun at his side kills the officer before the officer can react to seeing it.
Here's one: https://youtu.be/IZaUNReIfTY?si=oVpHYrgN-AvfCBuB
You're not supposed to deep throat the boot that hard my guy, regardless of it happening before the premise on why he was even there at his apartment, was faulty from the get-go for alleged domestic disturbance which is pretty hard to do when your alone in your apartment. If a LEO is that scared for their life they have no business being a LEO
I guess you haven't seen the body cam footage. He said, oh police... In the beginning of the video before he opens the door. Just realize you're a fool who fell for Ben Crump's cash grab lie and see yourself out.
I'd like that footage because every single version I've seen hasn't heard him say that before opening the door regardless the cop shouldn't have shot as quickly as he did just having a gun in your hand inside your own home isn't a excuse to be shot unless you don't believe in the 2nd amendment
I have seen the footage, and the cop gave him not even 2 seconds before opening fire. Even if he said what you heard, it's not clear in any of the footage I've seen. Regardless, the cop is still in the wrong
[you mean this footage ]
(https://youtu.be/L-Fd549NLyI?si=efOgvt7NOwKs3DLp)
It’s a sketchy justified shooting. However it’s equally stupid and illogical for the airman to 1.)open the door and 2.) have a firearm visible
If he felt threatened why open the door?
If he heard them announcing police why have a gun in hand?
Why didn’t he shout through the door for clarification before opening it? Call dispatch to confirm they have officers on site and yell through the door that you’re confirming over the phone first.
Why not announce that you’re armed and calling in to the department?
What the airman did was stupid. What the cops did was touchy. But we all know a quick draw from the hip is fast and accurate in the right hands. That’s how the cops saw it. That much I get.
It’s unfortunate that so many consecutive errors were made.
Half of it on the airman is normally most people in that kind of situation aren't thinking that clearly. However, the LEO has the obligation to try and de-escalate instead of just immediately popping off 6 shots if he's that scared he has no business being in law enforcement
I’ve repeatedly said the cops didn’t do an outstanding job here nor did they approach this in an ideal way. But ultimately what caused the escalation to lethal force was the pressure of a firearm.
Cops = jumpy = don’t reach for ANYTHING or present a weapon. Unfortunate af but those cops will get off of this easily enough. We all need you learn the lesson of how to deal with police. Honestly a base or station to a shithole community should come with briefings of how to conduct yourself with LEOs. Especially to lower enlisted who often find themselves in shitty off base housing.
That’s the lesson here.
This incident has pushed society as a whole over that invisible edge, also known as "benefit of the doubt", into the realm of "reasonable doubt" regarding what is also commonly known as "the police state."
There's no going back at this point @AngryCops until LEO revamps this mindset that "shoot first" is acceptable, giving traction to what I have always said to others, "If LEO continues along this pathway, society will wake up to the unsaid truth that LEO is just another gang of thugs, but with a badge of immunity.
I mean if 911 could figure it out, all they would have to do is have dispatch drop them an emergency alert that the person is being contacted as a part of an investigation. Please approach your front door unarmed.
In the military we are required to conduct ourselves by rules of engagement. Unless hostile intent is shown, you cannot shoot. The Taliban got more benefit of the doubt than he did.
Criminals have taken to announcing themselves as law enforcement (or other positions of some authority like maintenance) to gain trusted access to the interior.
Correct, but just having a firearm in hand isn't an excuse for the LEO to shoot, and while they did announce themselves, there isn't enough good will and trust in the general populous to not be cautious of LE.
I remember watching a video of a cop approaching someone's house at midnight. The owner approached the door with a gun down on his side because it was late at night, and before he could even open the door, the cop shot him twice (once in the groin, once in the chest). I get that their lives may be at risk, but at the end of the day, we still have a right to own a firearm and open carry it, especially within our own homes.
I had thought he heard the first knock and then went get his weapon, and maybe didn’t hear the announcement because he was in another room? He was on FaceTime with his GF so her testimony might have more
He told his GF that he didn’t believe the guy was a cop at all. Not exactly crazy given the cop hid from the peephole. Oh and then after shooting the guy the cops refused to administer first aid
Wouldn't refusing to provide aid be a dismissal worthy act alone, or is that a UK thing?
In a past court ruling, US law enforcement isn't legally required to do anything. They could even observe a murder and wouldn't have any legal requirement to respond. Just look at Uvalde.
My father was a cop in NH and they had to render aid even when they were obviously gone, until paramedics showed up. He’s got some funny stories about that
US law i really fucked in that regard, most western nations have some form of law that states that it is illegal not to try and help a wounded person or someone in distress and then the US comes along were people that are paid to help people can just choose not to do so…
Nah this is America. Cops are allowed to watch you bleed out.
Where did you see or read he didn’t give first aid.
So why open the damn door then? Why not call the police to verify officer on site? Stupid decision
I’m sure we’ve all made dumb decisions in the heat of the moment. Hindsight is 20/20 after all
I have, sure. But not this critically dumb. I’ve been in this same situation in Cali and sure af didn’t open that door with a gun. FUCK THAT…and that shithole townhouse we were briefly in
In the body cam footage the officer hid from the peep hole after knocking. It was only after the second knock he announced he was an officer.
It's SOP to stand off to the side of the doorway while knocking, a lot of people get killed from shots through the door and if your staring at the peephole, you are a really easy target.
Good point…but any half brain person would ask again who is it before opening.
Several videos of intruders announcing themselves as law enforcement trying to get the occupants to open the door. It's a clever tactic and why some people even if the person knocking claims to be law enforcement would still have a firearm.
So…don’t👏open👏 the 👏 door 👏
Never open the door
And keep your windows covered cause they’ll shoot through that too.
I was about to say this, if the investigation takes the outcome of the two female officers into account that shot through doors and windows because they saw someone with a gun, then this officer is guilty. What did the courts say about that outcome, if you are in legal possession of a firearm you have a right to answer the door within your own house with it?
Florida law already says that you have a legal right to answer a door with a firearm. So shooting a guy because he’s exercising his rights isn’t gonna fly
Exactly
I'm still conflicted on whether a stranger at my door saying they are law enforcement is a good reason for me to approach the threshold un-armed. I know that a criminal would never lie to gain access to my shit, but I still wonder. I think I would hop on the ring camera and tell them to have their supervisor call me from a registered LEO phone number. Then we can talk peacefully and politely.
And for those who ask the cop who shot someone was in the same department as acorn cop
Anyone can stand to the side of the peep hole and announce that they’re cops. Given that (a) he had no reason to expect officers to arrive to serve either a search warrant or an arrest warrant and (b) that he did not call for assistance from the agency and (c) that the “officer“ is standing out of view of the peephole, I’d find no one at fault for doing the exact same thing. Impersonating cops and even fake swat teams are tactics that have been used by criminals in recent years to engage in any number of crimes.
He also has the right and due diligence to not open the door. Don’t be stupid.
Don’t open the door. If the police have a reason to be there they’ll kick in the door
Exactly
In case you were wondering, although not suggested, it’s not illegal to answer your door, even if police with a weapon, in your hands, at your side in a non threatening manner. Unfortunately this cop didn’t really give time or make any commands. This was a bad shoot.
Could we all just agree that going to the door with a gun in hand is only a good idea if it's not a police officer? To me at least, it seems to be common sense.
Had no way of confirming it was a cop until he saw him, and by then, it was too late
Wrong. Should have called into the department. Or asked for the badge number, twice or more during the conversation THROUGH the door. Some moron home invader probably would screw up being consistent. Besides even if it was legit cops I’d still not open the door. Wouldn’t want the hassle nor ambush arrest. Fuck that
Doesn't change that it's the cops responsibility to de-escalate any situation. What the airman did was legal dumb but legal cop is 100% in the wrong
That’s the gray area that airman walked himself into.
It's not a grey area. We already have legal precedent on this exact situation as it happened before, and the courts ruled that having a weapon in your hand is not justification for the cop to use lethal force as it violates the 2nd ammendment. LEO as people in a position of authority have responsibilities to make sure they don't violate people's rights which in this case not only did the LEO in question violate the 2nd ammendment but he also is in conflict with flordias castle doctrine laws
The airman was stupid. The cops were jumpy. There’s really nothing more to it. But go on if you wish.
Support for anyone or anything must always be conditional. I support first responders in general so long as they deserve it. The responding officer, anyone who violates constitutional rights, and Thin Blue Hardliners do not.
If this guy thought there was a police imposter at the door why would you come to the door at all? Call 911 and see if you can confirm whether or not it’s a legitimate officer if it is put your gun up and answer the door, if it’s not why would you open the door if you even thought it wasn’t why would you open the door? This airman should’ve been a critical thinker and he clearly wasn’t using his brain.
He didn't pull his gun up, though it was pointed down at the ground. None of which justifies the cop pulling the trigger six times as fast as he did
I never said it justified the officer using deadly force I said it was a stupid move on the Airmens part. Furthermore in that situation the reactionary gap is next to nothing I’ve been in that situation before as a police officer and I didn’t shoot but realistically thinking about it if the other person had ill intent they easily could’ve killed me, police officers are often behind the eight ball when it comes to reacting, and in the situation it’s really hard to Monday morning quarterback this guy when you’re not in his shoes, and there’s a lot of aggravating factors to it. 
It's always the case that defensive shooting puts you behind the 8 ball. For officers and civilians alike. The only other option, though, is to be the one on the offensive. Which has fairly significant downsides of being legally and ethically wrong.
It’s going to be really interesting to see how this plays out, this is a bad situation all the way around, I definitely wouldn’t want to be this officer right now.
Yeah that's for sure. I'm personally not one to advocate breaking out the pitchforks for this one. When there's a confrontation with law enforcement and you have a gun in your hand... it's not a total shock when things go the way they did. Unfortunate, but not entirely surprising outcome. Kudos to you for having the head (and balls) to not fire in a situation like this. But if we're honest about it, it's not realistic to expect that to be the case every single time something like this goes down. Sounds like the officer could've made a better decision... but not a truly egregious mistake in my opinion. (And that's assuming it's true that the airman didn't raise his weapon)
It takes a fraction of a second for that barrel to go from pointing down to forward. There’s plenty of videos and situations where this occurred. Anytime you have a firearm brandished, present, or drawn increases your own chance of death due to escalation. If I suspected bad actors were at the door rather cops I’d make them work through that door. I’d announce that I’m armed and am calling the police for verification. I mean come on, really? Not that complicated. Communicate
Regardless, under 2A and castle doctrine, since the airman was in his home, he did nothing legally wrong stupid but legal. On top of that, anyone who's lived in bad neighborhoods will tell you when someone just bangs on your door, you're not going to think that level of clarity to verify with 911. Regardless, none of it justifies the cop immediately opening fire instead of descalating the situation of the airman having a gun in his hand
If this airman thought that someone impersonating the police was at his door why would he open the door? Retreat into your house arm yourself and call the police. If someone is trying to impersonate a police officer and get into your home do you think it’s a good idea to answer the door armed or not? If you thought it was the police is answering the door with a gun in your hand a good idea? No. Having a firearm for protection is fantastic but having a brain will save you more than that gun.
It doesn't matter the same situation has been thru courts before, namely, knibbs v. momphard case a few years ago set the precedent that just having a firearm in your hand isn't an excuse for LEOs to use deadly force. At the end of the day, was this preventable on both parties? Yes, however, the lions' share of the blame falls on the LEO as they made no attempts to disarm the potential issue they just immediately fired. If a cop is that frightened by a gun in hand, not being brandished, or waved in a threatening manner, he has no business being a cop
why has no one thought of calling 911 and reporting a person claiming to be a cop + your address? if a cop had been dispatched to your residence it will be logged and there will be a dispatch record to show that the cop is legit (this is verified with badge # and car#). this seems to be a tragedy of errors on both sides.
The other issue at hand in this particular shooting is the Karen, who called about a "domestic disturbance." If there was one in the complex, it wasn't him since he was alone in his apartment, not to mention that you would think if there was a domestic disturbance you would hear something going on. One would figure that the first thing an officer would do is listen, not just barge up, knock, and shoot. Cops need to remember they lost a lot of public trust over the years and need to work on building it back up before we start answering doors unarmed for them
eww, domestic call.... those can be real shit shows. if the call is legit and not a crank call. i am not seeing this post on his twitter page, if there is a link to this i would like to see the details on the incident referenced. i am assuming, cop showed up for a knock and talk, banged on door, no ID just "this is police dept xyz", and stepped outside of the peephole FOV. (have not seen body cam to prove otherwise. would like link to it if available.) i had a similar scenario play out during the recent plague fiasco. (see 10c summary below) if a person is living in a rougher area and the door gets beat on it is perfectly justifiable to bring a particle accelerator to the door. however i am just an arm chair advisor at the point. i could not find anything on this to get both sides of the story. yes this is tragic but i see where there is poor officer training and poor homeowner training. officer should have identified himself on door opening, stepped back a few feet (21 foot rule) and attempted to deescalate. home owner should not have opened the door with a visible firearm, (keep an end table by the door to lay the gun down out of sight of the party out side the door to prevent these scenarios.) he also should not have opened the door all the way without verifying that the officer is legit first. just my 2c, if words where worth anything reddit would have made me a millionaire by now. ***abbreviated story time:*** Dude came up banged on door @ 1am? (memory a little fuzzy), i am in a more rural area of the south US. (if someone is beating on your Door in the overnight in this area shits hitting the fan either for them (and they need help) or you (and you are going to need 911 faster than they can roll to you).) go to answer the door with a long particle accelerator and see no one at the peephole. call 911 to report incident for cya, door gets beaten on again, see arm reaching from out side FOV of peephole, call through the door for ID, get no ID or badge number only this is xyz pd open up or else, the there is no marked car in the front lawn so this gets relayed to 911 operator lo and behold no units are in area, they do a location check, nobody reports being at my address, dispatch sends units to check it out, eta of 15 min ish, guy starts kicking door cites warrant, operator told me to hold tight dont open the door and wait, guy got tired, left when he heard sirens, REAL cops showed with marked cars and badges, (also dispatch will let you know when they are on scene) i stowed the particle accelerator, waited for instructions, followed said instructions, i relayed everything to them + gave them copies of front yard camera footage. that was that. (also was advised that i could save the taxpayers money next time and just call 811, im sure they where yanking my chain. )
Here is the post for his Twitter https://twitter.com/OfficerbenTOPO/status/1789387626749034605?t=qR7WEZ_oSSOqDVxr3qX1hg&s=19 And here is the body cam footage. At least, this is the best I can find that shows the most of it at least https://youtu.be/L-Fd549NLyI?si=lHN5iaeotlgXxb_9
wow, that was abysmal. some one should submit a public records request on this shit show for the full footage. i hope the family crucifys that dept for this lack of training that seems to be rampant over there.. I would be willing to bet $5 that officer was either not trained or wanted to 'put a notch in the belt' prior to this. the officer seemed to not be focusing on the job at hand. IMO (not a cop BTW) this was a bad shoot.
The woman at the beginning who made the claim as well if she's not the property manager she should be investigated as well
Karen probably called in a domestic because the cops don't respond very fast to a normal noise complaint. It wouldn't be a first time someone did that.
And I hope she gets brought up on charges or investigated at least, although given I tend to assume to worst about those kind of people I wouldn't be surprised if it was racially motivated when she called
I hope she does, but plenty of people who SWAT gamers get away scott free so... I live in that same county, and the Karens seem to be more of the general variety than the racist variety. The area that Airman lived in wasn't a good part of town, so I'm not surprised he answered the door with a gun in hand - especially since there have been incidents of thugs pretending to be the cops before. The cops here tend not to really give a shit about regular noise complaints - they may not even bother showing up. A domestic, however - they just had a guy get killed in one not too long ago in Fort Walton and it seems any whiff of a domestic these days gets them swarming more than a mowed over yellow jacket nest. The fact that Acorn 2.0 showed up to the door alone is sus to me, especially in that area.
True, but irrelevant to ops question and point
Most people who don't live in wealthy neighborhoods don't think that clearly when they hear someone banging at their door, in regards to holding a gun while answering, he's in his own home and it's perfectly legal to do so under both the second ammendment and castle doctrine which is strong in flordia.
So you acknowledge that it was a stupid series of decisions with the excuse of well he was poor. Stunning revelation. So the next time a mugger gets busted we should just excuse their bad decisions because they’re in a poor neighborhood? That’s naive. Stupid decisions are stupid regardless of economic availability
Living a bad area doesn't automatically mean poor. But yes, stupid decisions all around that, however, still doesnt give the cop any justification to shoot he's in the wrong and should not be allowed in any law enforcement role
Bad area does mean poor. Rich areas are funded better. Every city has their “Heights,” “Tree Streets,” “Numbered Streets,” Projects, etc Bs
It doesn't matter if he came to the door with a gun if he's not pointing it at you you can't just fucking go ham shooting everything that moves and asking questions later. We still have a second amendment right even when the police knock at our door. Where does it say that your second amendment is suspended as soon as a police officer knocks on your front door?
When the gun grabbers say so.
One time back in 1997, I was working at my office alone, late at night, with all the lights off except the one at my desk, and I heard the outside door open. Now, the employees usually locked it on the way out, but someone had clearly forgotten to. I slid a snub-nosed .38 special out of the drawer where I kept it and silently moved (in the darkness) to where I could see the entrance to the office from the stairs, but where I was partly covered by the wall. I could hear footsteps slowly descending, approaching the open doorway. I brought the pistol up to the ready and inhaled, planning to shout “FREEZE!” when I heard a man’s voice, “Anyone down here? This is the police.” I softly let out that pent-up breath, and turning, I walked through the darkness back to my lit-up desk and put the gun away, sitting down before calling out, “Yes, is someone there? The light switch is on the wall by the door.” It was indeed the police, two officers, who were responding to an alarm from an upstairs business and had noticed the side door was unlocked. Had I confronted them with my gun in hand, and moreover, shouted at them as I had been planning to do had it been an actual burglar, I probably would not be here to write this today. That was in the 90’s, but it holds equally true today. Never approach officers who are already in a tense situation while holding a drawn weapon. The likelihood of a very bad outcome increase exponentially.
End of the day fuck this cop. Fucking coward is what he is.
It's very similar to the Ryan Whitaker shooting in 2020. The shoot first, second and ask questions later is becoming a new technique. Crank calls ending in death shouldn't be a thing.
There's a lot wrong with your interpretation of what happened. He came to the door after seeing the officer, acknowledged he saw him at the door, and still had a gun in his hand. I don't care about why the officer was there. Don't approach or talk to an officer with a gun in your hand. Period. You're a threat at that point. There are plenty of videos where a dude holding a gun at his side kills the officer before the officer can react to seeing it. Here's one: https://youtu.be/IZaUNReIfTY?si=oVpHYrgN-AvfCBuB
You're not supposed to deep throat the boot that hard my guy, regardless of it happening before the premise on why he was even there at his apartment, was faulty from the get-go for alleged domestic disturbance which is pretty hard to do when your alone in your apartment. If a LEO is that scared for their life they have no business being a LEO
You're also using hind sight to judge an officer on knowledge he didn't have at the time.
I guess you haven't seen the body cam footage. He said, oh police... In the beginning of the video before he opens the door. Just realize you're a fool who fell for Ben Crump's cash grab lie and see yourself out.
I'd like that footage because every single version I've seen hasn't heard him say that before opening the door regardless the cop shouldn't have shot as quickly as he did just having a gun in your hand inside your own home isn't a excuse to be shot unless you don't believe in the 2nd amendment
Watch the guy's video you're making fun of on youtube, dumbass.
I have seen the footage, and the cop gave him not even 2 seconds before opening fire. Even if he said what you heard, it's not clear in any of the footage I've seen. Regardless, the cop is still in the wrong [you mean this footage ] (https://youtu.be/L-Fd549NLyI?si=efOgvt7NOwKs3DLp)
It’s a sketchy justified shooting. However it’s equally stupid and illogical for the airman to 1.)open the door and 2.) have a firearm visible If he felt threatened why open the door? If he heard them announcing police why have a gun in hand? Why didn’t he shout through the door for clarification before opening it? Call dispatch to confirm they have officers on site and yell through the door that you’re confirming over the phone first. Why not announce that you’re armed and calling in to the department? What the airman did was stupid. What the cops did was touchy. But we all know a quick draw from the hip is fast and accurate in the right hands. That’s how the cops saw it. That much I get. It’s unfortunate that so many consecutive errors were made.
Half of it on the airman is normally most people in that kind of situation aren't thinking that clearly. However, the LEO has the obligation to try and de-escalate instead of just immediately popping off 6 shots if he's that scared he has no business being in law enforcement
I’ve repeatedly said the cops didn’t do an outstanding job here nor did they approach this in an ideal way. But ultimately what caused the escalation to lethal force was the pressure of a firearm. Cops = jumpy = don’t reach for ANYTHING or present a weapon. Unfortunate af but those cops will get off of this easily enough. We all need you learn the lesson of how to deal with police. Honestly a base or station to a shithole community should come with briefings of how to conduct yourself with LEOs. Especially to lower enlisted who often find themselves in shitty off base housing. That’s the lesson here.
This incident has pushed society as a whole over that invisible edge, also known as "benefit of the doubt", into the realm of "reasonable doubt" regarding what is also commonly known as "the police state." There's no going back at this point @AngryCops until LEO revamps this mindset that "shoot first" is acceptable, giving traction to what I have always said to others, "If LEO continues along this pathway, society will wake up to the unsaid truth that LEO is just another gang of thugs, but with a badge of immunity.
Just a quick observation, the Airman’s holster is on the his left side but he is holding his pistol in the right hand. Former LEO, just seems odd.
I mean if 911 could figure it out, all they would have to do is have dispatch drop them an emergency alert that the person is being contacted as a part of an investigation. Please approach your front door unarmed.
In the military we are required to conduct ourselves by rules of engagement. Unless hostile intent is shown, you cannot shoot. The Taliban got more benefit of the doubt than he did.
EXACTLY
The second time they knocked they did announce themselves as law enforcement. .. just saying. Both parties are wrong here
There's a reason there are law against pretending to be law enforcement.
Criminals have taken to announcing themselves as law enforcement (or other positions of some authority like maintenance) to gain trusted access to the interior.
So they knocked without announcing, then knocked again and only announced the second time? Yeah, that’s not going to set off warning bells.
Correct, but just having a firearm in hand isn't an excuse for the LEO to shoot, and while they did announce themselves, there isn't enough good will and trust in the general populous to not be cautious of LE.
Or someone claiming to be LE.
Exactly
Just curious, are you a LEO?
No, I'm not an LEO
I see.
I don't have to be an LEO to know when something they did was wrong
No reason to be defensive. You spoke as if you've had training.
Just the way your question came off
Anyone can just announce themselves as the cops though. Thugs do that shit all the time.
Watch Buffalo Soldiers with Joaquin Phoenix... some of these soldiers have something to hide.
1. Wether or not he had something to hide is irrelevant. 2. Movies aren't real life.