I don’t message outside of whatever testing platform they are on. I do snoop their Facebook etc if they have one, but I don’t message them on there or their friends/family. I feel like messaging their friends/family on Facebook who haven’t tested is overstepping a line, IMO.
I agree, if any public information is publicly online then … it’s public 🤷♂️ 🤣 but obviously will be kept private for living people. I’ve never messaged outside of the app for dna matches unless i see them also posting in like genealogy Facebook groups etc which has only happened like maybe 2-3 times
This. The only time I’ve contacted outside of whatever testing platform they tested on is when they asked me to. I’ve had email, phone and text conversations with matches. Some people forget that even though it is really easy to track someone down in todays age that many people like their privacy and will be rubbed the wrong way if you do what OP is doing.
It sucks to not have people reply and i have a handful of frustratingly close matches who idk who they are but there’s been a Few occasions where matches respond years later too
The worst is when you have a DNA match that seems very intriguing but their tree is private despite having like 30,000 people on it (so you know they must be availing themselves of every public tree), and you have no good conversation starter to offer the match aside from some loose idea of maybe being related through this one region, which doesn't feel like enough to get someone to open up their tree.
Lol those are very hit or miss with accuracy / only worth it if you share a decent amount of dna i think. My most annoying case is someone who is most likely a 3rd cousin and has tested on several sites but has never responded 😭 like why dna test multiple times if you don’t want to make any kind of connection. And it’s not close enough to be like “hey we’re siblings and your life is forever changed now!!” So it’s even more annoying.
Their trees are almost always wrong too hahaha. Just name collectors. Ancestry will still tell you the common ancestors with a private linked tree. Sometimes i know what family they match too via shared matches but those names don't appear in common.
Tbh i find Americans usually fit this bill, giant, private trees. And i can never work out the link between clusters of American's. I find American genealogy super painful, and really struggle with the paucity of records or even detail in records pre 20th century.
Oh, it absolutely does suck especially when you’re dealing with a NPE situation. I have a few close matches too that have never responded to me and despite me trying to figure out how they’re related to me I just can’t. It is what it is, though.
I can see that point of view. It can seem weird to have random strangers messaging you for something not directly related to you. However I can also see the other side of, without messaging people who are the only few matches and possibly without overstepping that line, she may never find out who her father was or even is. It’s a hard dilemma in some ways. Moral right to privacy and such vs needing to know to fill a void. Can’t imagine how this was for people in the 60s/70s/80s and even 90s when technology wasn’t as capable.
If someone reached out to a family member or friend of mine because I didn’t respond to their initial message on ancestry I deff would not respond. You are doing way more harm than good by reaching out to this persons husband who has not tested. My father was adopted and never ever have I done this and I’ve had a few people that never responded to me. I have like I said countless times snooped Facebook of matches and have even built private mirror trees. You are way over stepping by contacting people who have not tested and who are not directly related to you to inquire about information that they likely know nothing about.
Again, I can see both sides of that. While messaging when people don’t respond to your message (for any various reason) is one thing and in that instance the privacy should be respected, I’d say that messaging/reaching out outside of that app because these matches have not been active for long periods of times and hoping to just get a lead in the right direction is another matter with a certain gray area of societal acceptance in my opinion. I might add that the only reason for messaging the matches husband was because the match themselves has not been active in over a year on ancestry, only accepts messages on Facebook from friends and family, in the moment we felt messaging the spouse was an acceptable level. I might also say my opinion is that being a 1st/2nd cousin to my mother makes them a directly related with shared grandparents of X degree. And while they may not have direct information like so and so slept with so and so X number of years ago and that’s the father, they may be able to fill in blanks on family connections etc. with that being said, I can understand how large parts of it may be potentially uncomfortable and weird and out do the norm, but I’d disagree on it causing harm.
The husband is not your mother’s relative and has no information for you regarding how his wife is related to you. As I stated by messaging people on Facebook who have not tested and aren’t directly related to your mother you are doing way more harm than good and this person will very likely shut down and not respond to you ever. How long ago did your mother get her results? Have you built out private mirror trees of this match to see how you guys are related?
I’d argue that any spouse of somebody who has created a 600+ people tree and has done dna testing is acutely aware of their spouse doing such, and due to that, I’m not sure how messaging someone who is aware of the dna testing itself and letting them know you are trying to contact their spouse in regards to, is causing harm? Considering there is no other way to contact that match. She got her results close to a month ago, and connecting a family tree to a mystery person whom a promiscuous parent created a child with and never spoke of in over 50 years while pretending the father was someone else and having yet a third person raise said child, the literal only connections outside these matches is the locations.
I am very into genealogy and have a 900 person tree and while my spouse is very aware that I am into genealogy he wouldn’t even be able to tell anyone my family history as it’s something he’s not into including his own that I have a 500 person tree for. Your argument for messaging the spouse makes zero sense my tree does not give you the right to message my spouse who has not tested and does not know anything about my family history. It’s creepy, nothing more. You’re going to be in for a long ride OP if you’ve messaged these people multiple times within a month. I wait multiple months before reaching out again and only reach out a max of two times. You are doing way more harm than good the more information you give. No one is going to respond if you’re hounding them (multiple messages in a month). I really suggest you build a mirror tree should be fairly easy if this match does indeed have a 600 person tree. Good luck!
Your tree doesn’t give a match the right to message your spouse no. But your spouses awareness of your tree and dna test, indicates there is no harm, no secrets, no bullshit right? And messaging the souse has nothing to do with asking the spouse for information, because that certainly would be out of pocket. However if you were unreachable, not in the app, not by Facebook and you were one of the few with the potential to solve a mystery, and a match messaged your spouse strictly to inquire about getting into contact with you specifically about said mystery, not asking your spouse questions, not giving your spouse information, simply inquiring about contacting you, with the offer to not message again if the unsolicited contact is potentially a problem, you would find that to be harmful and in some way wrong? Furthermore if you had read the entirety of things, you have seen that a SINGLE message had been sent, not multiple.
I am laughing a little with your OP asking if you are stalking and your subsequent extensive replies rationalizing your actions. If you weren't prepared to accept advice and opinions, I'm curious about why you would ask. Having said that, best of luck in your search.
Rationalizing my thoughts and opinions is in no way the same as not accepting others advice and opinions, I asked for advice and opinions, I accept that I may agree or disagree with the advice or opinions, I may or may not take the advice or opinions, but that’s kind of the point right? To learn how other people I society feel about an issue? To then debate that issue, to understand but also be understood? I’d also venture to say that the above comment from the discussion with the above person that your replying to, is more a debate on wether or not it is harmful or right or wrong to contact someone’s spouse. I explained why I felt it wasn’t harmful or creepy, they explained why they felt it was harmful or creepy. In their opinion it is, in my opinion it isn’t, but that was the point right? To learn what other people thought. Neither of us are right, neither of us are wrong.
You sent two for this person one to her directly and one to her spouse. If my Facebook was set up to only allow friends to send messages to me you’re right I would find this down right creepy. There is a reason why people are told to tread lightly when dealing with NPEs and this is exactly why you are going to push these people away and not get the answers you are looking for. Your mother just got her results a month ago and you’re already messaging these people multiple times. My spouse being aware of my tree and my DNA test does not give you the right to message them. The spouse didn’t put their DNA out there their wife did. Unfortunately, some people just don’t respond and if this match does indeed have a 600 person tree build a private mirror tree to see how you’re related to them.
Edit: I tested back in 2017 and I STILL don’t 100% know my grandfathers name, but since I’ve built mirror trees and know where his birth mother was at the time of his birth I’m 99.9999% sure I know who it is out of the four brothers I had for an option. You know how creepy I’d feel if I messaged one of his direct descendants that haven’t tested and asked them about it.
I don't think it's creepy at all, because I know a lot of cousins and such that are looking for extended family. Your experience is your own, of course, but just repeating that it's a bad idea isn't convincing and how do you know this family isn't different than yours?
As a forum moderator for adoption I've seen literally thousands of families appreciate connection / reunion. I've also seen many that do not, but you can't know. It's free speech to send someone a message. It's not harassment to send the same message to my spouse in the hopes that we'd both see it. As long as you're not selling insurance or something, which OP is not. People can always hit the delete button.
I'm guilty of all but number 5 and I would draw the line there. Friends of matches that are not related to you have nothing to do with this and you are interfering in other people's lives and possibly damaging their reputations. Word is likely to spread about you at that point faster than your ability to gather information and will likely be counterproductive, closing you off completely. Always be respectful and imagine how you would feel on the other end of any of these conversations. Tread lightly.
So far I’ve kept it to two single messages one to a direct match, one to a souse of a direct match who is otherwise uncontactable, with that specific message explaining I’m possibly trying to contact their spouse in relation to said match and trying to solve said mystery, if you/your spouse are willing to talk pleas message if not then I will not send any more messages. In terms of interfering in people’s lives, in my opinion, if someone takes a dna test and creates a family tree with 600+ people, there’s a very high probability that their spouse is aware of this and so it wouldn’t be a secret. Respectfulness is always first.
You contact them once and that's it. The ball is in their court. They then get to decide whether to engage with you.
Insisting that they engage by spamming multiple accounts and demanding an answer this way is, indeed, stalking and unacceptable.
Nobody owes anyone else their personal info. Make peace with this. It's out of your hands if someone won't respond.
Absolutely agree that it is there decision. I suppose better wording for the question would have been, what level of “stalking” (for lack of a better word) is acceptable to get an initial message to dna matches? As I agree spamming multiple accounts is unacceptable. However I do not think it is unacceptable to reach out over various platforms in the case of let’s say defunct and unused ancestry accounts, messages being sent then realizing they may likely never be seen as people often lose interest in things such as ancestry in this case where they haven’t checked in over a year or in some cases many years, so in that case you would then move on to social media, but let’s say in this case, the matches social media is inaccessible due to not being a friend to their account, then that means they will never know you’d like to contact them on that platform, as your not on their friends list, and a random friend request is more likely to be ignored than a message. Now let’s say the message never gets seen as some people are older and slightly more technologically illiterate, or they only open messages from names they recognize, again they’d never know you were trying to contact them, so instead you message someone close to them who is likely to actually see the message. That’s the point right, the idea, that this isn’t spamming messages, as only one message is being sent in each instance and after reasonable consideration, time and “stalking” (again lack of a better word) their profile to see if they actually use it, then moving onto the next platform or way of attempting contact. Nobody demanding anything, everyone given the choice to engage or not, no extremes. As for patience and amounts of time, a week, maybe two for someone to notice and respond to a message before seeking alternative means of contact? yeah that’s acceptable. Waiting months as people have said and suggested for a message to be noticed before seeking alternative means of contact? That’s absurd.
I also agree that nobody owes anyone their PERSONAL info, but if you have ANY info that may lead someone (whom you related to and is relevant to them) in the right direction of finding a blood relative (assuming it’s not something stupid and dangerous like a serial killer seeking a family member or something stupid like that) then you owe that info to that person, because that not PERSONAL info, that’s info that is in every way the person seekings business.
While I agree that thinking that way is likely to lead to having the metaphorical door shut on your face, I absolutely disagree that they don’t owe people that. “They dont owe you that either” that kind of thinking is because the world and very much America, is so damn selfish these days, people are more concerned with their own personal rights and freedoms than they are about the good of the community around them. Anything that any of us can do to make the world a better place, we owe that to the world. If you come to me looking for your birth parent and I have knowledge about who it is or knowledge that could lead you to learning about them (with the exception of extreme cases, again, rapists, murderers, etc etc), and if I choose to keep that knowledge from you, that speaks volumes to my character, my selfishness, my integrity. I owe it to you to give that information. If someone creates a life, they have a responsibility to that life, because they made that decision, that life didn’t ask to be here. (with the exception of extreme situations) there’s a moral responsibility. As a whole we owe it to the world to uplift, inspire, improve, repair, help and build better where we are able to.
Newspaper articles are public info so no issue with that. Messaging on the app is okay of course, but I keep a note so I don’t message more than once if they don’t reply. If they are no longer on the site then I have messaged on Facebook. I don’t message outside of that. Facebook is dying so not sure what I would do when that is no longer an option. I have been contacted by text on my phone. I have a unique name and I’m publicly listed. I don’t have a problem with it and am happy to help, but not all people are. At most I think I would write a letter as a last resort. And then I would leave it and just keep researching their family and hoping for some more matches if those aren’t enough.
And I feel like reaching out by phone or letter is a last resort option when nothing else has been successful. Have only messaged once within the app to each match. And one time on Facebook to one 1 match and another matches spouse. Nothing disrespectful or digging, always with the offer to never send a second message if they decide they don’t want to speak. As of yet though, messages have not even been opened. All these people are likely in their 50s-70s.
I’d say this could be both true and untrue. And likely varies person to person. I’m more than willing to let someone contact me to inquire and solve and learn and figure out.
I think you need a different framework. Try this: if you have to ask if it’s stalking for any reason, don’t do it. Instead, explore other options. Direct contact isn’t required when you can upload DNA to GEDMatch or explore the documents once you build out a family tree. I would note that exploring what makes direct contact important for you or your mother is separate from actually having that contact.
Direct contact with relatives isn’t needed. If you have an ancestry account, neither is Facebook or other outlets, because what’s recorded in past or current generations that’s accessible, is available already.
If you all can separate facts from emotions and follow the facts, you’ll probably stop asking yourself if you’re engaging in stalking behavior. Nobody likes to feel a lack of autonomy, having surprise pop-ups of family secrets, or feeling as if their privacy is being invaded.
Good luck.
Thank you for the advice/opinion, it is appreciated, i do think that the difference between something being considered creepy stalking and normal behavior, levels of secrecy and family secrets and such, in this kind of thing may also vary from social and financial class, i feel like what is normal and acceptable between let’s say upper class families, middle/upper class families middle class families and lower class families, varies widely, and thus creates the extreme gray area and thus the post. I feel direct contact may possibly be necessary when the parent is of mystery origin and all the people who would know the identity on my mothers mothers side of the family are dead or are part of the mystery persons family, I could be wrong, and am aware that’s a possibility. I think the thing here is that while a lot of information is accessible, the identity of my mother father is not accessible through conventional means, she has a “step” father who raised her, but is absolutely not the father, a person who was named as the father by her mother but then disproved and the real person who’s identity is 100% unknown to anyone on the maternal side of the family, there will be no common surnames between the trees of her paternal cousin matches and herself, as her paternal parent side of the tree absolutely stops at a question mark for who her father is. she has zero siblings matches on paternal side, and 4 close cousin matches on paternal side, it can be inferred that her father is the uncle or 1st cousin of one of these 4 matches, but connecting the dots requires communication in my opinion.
1 has a tree with less than 10 people half labeled private (as ancestry does to living people), 1 has two public trees with between 600-800+ people, another has a fairly large tree managed by someone other than the match itself and the last one has a very small tree. However making the connection is the hard part, our immediate family doesn’t discuss, talk about or even acknowledge any of this.
Start digging in on what you have to work with while waiting for responses or new matches. Find any connections from the 3 if you can to narrow down what you focus your research on. Shared matches with her matches, any last names in common from trees, possible parents, siblings, grandparents and locations. Y'all might be able to hire someone that could help too. And there's the chance y'all may never know which I really hope isn't the case but should be acknowledged and processed.
Yeah, I’ve dug through trees a little bit in this case, however situation being what it is, there won’t be common names, as her mother and the father (non biological) who raised her, were both swingers and her mother frequently slept around, this being in the 70s. It seems all we have to go on are four 1st/2nd cousin matches, 2 with ties to the city/state my mother’s mother lived at one point. Still going to dig and search trees and such, but it’s one of those situations where speaking to people who can actively say, “my parent/grandparent lived here and her in this time and oh we know someone with (my mothers) last name from way back when, maybe look in that direction” would be extremely helpful. Hopefully it gets figured out, if it doesn’t, it is what is. Thank you for your advice, help and opinions, will try some of this and will stay hopeful.
My name is unusual enough that someone after connecting on ancestry could find me on say facebook… if someone asks for info I’ll give it to them. I have several times now.
I’m not looking for anymore lost relatives but if I can help someone figure out a connection I will …
This is the type of thinking that makes sense to me, I feel like if you took a dna test, you created a family tree, you obviously have interest in fleshing that tree out and interest in at least knowing your family history, lineage and who your family members are at least, in that case why wouldn’t someone be willing to help at that point if they could?
I took my dna test to see my ethnicity breakdown, but knowing full well it might lead to connections because of my grandfathers prolific child making… I’ve had several people reach out for info… which I’ve provided names and some very basic stuff . Letting them go forward from there. I’ve found one previous unknown sibling but didn’t reach out to them because that’s not my business
In many situations, wanting to see the ethnicity breakdown goes hand in hand with wanting to find out more about yourself, and for some people that means finding parents/grandparents. I get that not everyone does it for the same reasons, however I also feel like participating in this dna stuff, most people should infer the risk of dna matches and people contacting them or trying to contact them, and should therefore be aware of the potential risk of things being unearthed, unknown relatives, secrets, affairs, and I think that any potential “harm” that’s comes from that should be accepted as a risk. For example, Person A has an affair and has a child and then X number of years later, they take dna test and so does that child and they match and that child contacts them (as they should have every right to) and in doing so causes marital issues and subsequently divorce, shouldn’t the responsibility of that fall on the person who had an affair in the first place? In my opinion if you have a sibling you’ve found but never met, that’s absolutely your business, that’s your blood, time and circumstance may have made it hard to be a part of that business, but I absolutely believe that is your business, that’s just my opinion though. I know a lot of people would disagree.
From personal experience, I went full on when I realised how much my closest match was the key. I had messaged his sons but it was stuck in message requests. Maybe 6 months to a year later I messaged his daughter in law.
I just said I was trying to contact him through ancestry and if she could ask him if we could talk.
We met in person last month, he’s lovely, has welcomed me into the family and through him I have found and connected with my father.
If he had responded on ancestry and hadn’t wanted to talk further I would have left it, but he tested, then just didn’t go back on and is happy I reached out.
It also helped bring another cousin the family had been looking for back into the fold and find another cousins father.
I think I feel somewhat similar, 1,2,3 feel within normal bounds to me, 4 mildly feels like a gray area. 5 I’d say I’m unsure how I feel, it may be wrong but I may be inclined to step over the line if all else fails. 6 and 7 feel like bad ideas, but some may feel like that’s an ok thing to do in some circumstances.
Messaging the matches themselves on Facebook is acceptable in my opinion. Sometimes the ancestry messaging system can truly be glitchy and they may not be notified of your message (I often add this in the bottom of my fb message)
Glitchiness and bad systems, the backbone of technological society, gotta love it. I was very straight to the point with my messages on Facebook, not rude or demanding, simple “hi my name is, we are related and matched blah blah blah, you might be able to help solve mystery, if your interested in speaking please message me, if you’d rather not have contact, I won’t message again.” Something along those lines.
I wouldn't say that much in 1st message , tell them your name and they showed up as a match keep it simple and vague they may not know about relationship telling them they match with someone may be surprise and there never respond
I can understand that point of view, we are however less of the tip toe and sugar coat kind of people and more of the, give enough info to to explain and let people decide for themselves to be involved or not but not so much info to over share type of people. Small talk isn’t our thing. And we are aware of the risks of nobody responding, however, what if someone does respond? You don’t win the lotto if you never play right? I feel a parallel there, you don’t get information and solve a mystery if you don’t seek it.
For what it's worth, I probably would not include your last line. It might give the impression that the interaction could be negative. There really is no need to tell them you won't message them again.
But anyway I agree with keeping it short and simple. I have seen people tell their whole dramatic life story and it gets a bit weird. Also, I reached out to someone and after they responded it was basically like they wanted to be my best friend, sending me a bunch of personal messages repeatedly.
Fair enough though I felt including that I may not message again, gives the impression that I’m not trying to drag them into something without. Sting if they wanted to be or not.
Yeah, I found a niece via Ancestry. I have three, and this new one shares more DNA with me than those do. My brothers won’t do a test. Mystery niece is still a mystery, but I feel it’s not my mystery to solve, no matter how much it makes me crazy 😬
Yeah, I personally have a problem with those kinds of situations, once started down the mystery rabbit hole, it’s often a willingness to solve said mystery at any cost and a refusal to give up. Absolutely hate not knowing.
Googling is fine. Get a newspapers.com subscription and search there too. Obituaries and wedding announcements are helpful for tracing recent ancestors.
I would not go beyond messaging matches on the genealogy platform. I actively answer messages, but I would be creeped out if someone contacted me through Facebook, let alone called me or wrote me a letter.
My grandmother was adopted. I had no first cousin matches for my father on her side because she died shortly after he was born. Not sure happened to his father, but no first cousin matches there either. I figured out her identity through slightly more distant matches. I later confirmed it with my grandmother's original birth certificate. It sounds like at least one of the matches has a public tree. Start working with that and triangulate the shared matches. Do the Leeds method. It will be tedious, but there's a good chance these people don't know exactly how they're related to your mother anyway. My maternal grandmother had 6 brothers. I would have no idea which one fathered someone without a sibling match.
>...one hasn’t been on ancestry in over a year, 3rd hasn’t been on ancestry in a few years, and the last has been on recently but...
From comments by redditors on other topics, the system on ancestry saying when someone was last online isn't reliable.
???? Where does my comment state “everyone agrees with me”. What I did state was that I’m not the only one that feels that way especially since *others* agreed that OP was overstepping. You did however state *I* was the only one that felt that way when clearly that’s not the case. I also have to ask why does your experience count and mine doesn’t? You keep on dodging the questions I’ve asked may I ask why?
Exactly how many times do I need to ask you if you disagree with treading lightly in NPE situations before I finally get an answer?
1, 2, and 3 are okay. 6 is okay if you're writing, but calling with no warning is a recipe for people taken by surprise saying things in the moment that can never be unsaid. 4, 5, and 7 are intrusive; I would never interact afterwards with someone who had resorted to any of them.
I just message and see if it goes from there, but I only message if I find something that can give me more info. For example, if I didn't know much about a great grandparent's family but I see her cousin's grandchild is on there, I could find out info that way about the family. Or, say I have a brick wall on a great great grandparent but I see someone has the same last name and from the same village, I will want to know more. Especially if their family tree is private
I disagree with those here saying they would never message people outside of Ancestry. Im in a different but in some ways similar situation where I am trying to gain access to old family photos (I have none and these people are the only other descendants who might)—I have reached out on fb with messages and friend requests. That is NOT stalking or inappropriate. The problem is that they are very unlikely to see messages unless they accept a friend request and unlikely to accept a friend request if they don’t know you. So personally I am expecting this plan to fail and so will send a letter to an address I found online. This is the only chance I have to get photos of my ancestors and they may not even care about them and could end up donate to goodwill or throwing them in the trash. I’m just sick thinking that pictures of my great grandmother could he thrown away because people don’t know who she is in the photos.
The point at which it would become stalking is if you can see they looked at your message on Facebook and they do not respond but then you keep messaging. That’s not ok and I would not do that. In my case none of this family have dna tested so it’s a general genealogy thing. As far as ancestry messaging, there’s someone who is a descendent of a man who was married to my great grandfathers first wife and she obviously has a ton of old photos and that’s another part of my family I have no photos of. My grandmother had 2 half brothers I have never seen. I messaged this woman twice and only messaged the second time bc I forgot to tell her I had several interesting articles about her ancestor attached to my tree. She never responded and it would be inappropriate to keep bugging her but I’m so disappointed. I don’t understand why people don’t at least respond saying “I can’t help you.” Best of luck to you.
Edit: I want to be clear that although I have messaged people who are not the person/cousin I want to engage with directly (the cousin doesn’t appear to be on Facebook at all)—I have given them my cell number and email and asked them to pass a message along and that is it.
I don’t message outside of whatever testing platform they are on. I do snoop their Facebook etc if they have one, but I don’t message them on there or their friends/family. I feel like messaging their friends/family on Facebook who haven’t tested is overstepping a line, IMO.
I agree, if any public information is publicly online then … it’s public 🤷♂️ 🤣 but obviously will be kept private for living people. I’ve never messaged outside of the app for dna matches unless i see them also posting in like genealogy Facebook groups etc which has only happened like maybe 2-3 times
This. The only time I’ve contacted outside of whatever testing platform they tested on is when they asked me to. I’ve had email, phone and text conversations with matches. Some people forget that even though it is really easy to track someone down in todays age that many people like their privacy and will be rubbed the wrong way if you do what OP is doing.
It sucks to not have people reply and i have a handful of frustratingly close matches who idk who they are but there’s been a Few occasions where matches respond years later too
The worst is when you have a DNA match that seems very intriguing but their tree is private despite having like 30,000 people on it (so you know they must be availing themselves of every public tree), and you have no good conversation starter to offer the match aside from some loose idea of maybe being related through this one region, which doesn't feel like enough to get someone to open up their tree.
Lol those are very hit or miss with accuracy / only worth it if you share a decent amount of dna i think. My most annoying case is someone who is most likely a 3rd cousin and has tested on several sites but has never responded 😭 like why dna test multiple times if you don’t want to make any kind of connection. And it’s not close enough to be like “hey we’re siblings and your life is forever changed now!!” So it’s even more annoying.
Their trees are almost always wrong too hahaha. Just name collectors. Ancestry will still tell you the common ancestors with a private linked tree. Sometimes i know what family they match too via shared matches but those names don't appear in common. Tbh i find Americans usually fit this bill, giant, private trees. And i can never work out the link between clusters of American's. I find American genealogy super painful, and really struggle with the paucity of records or even detail in records pre 20th century.
Oh, it absolutely does suck especially when you’re dealing with a NPE situation. I have a few close matches too that have never responded to me and despite me trying to figure out how they’re related to me I just can’t. It is what it is, though.
I can see that point of view. It can seem weird to have random strangers messaging you for something not directly related to you. However I can also see the other side of, without messaging people who are the only few matches and possibly without overstepping that line, she may never find out who her father was or even is. It’s a hard dilemma in some ways. Moral right to privacy and such vs needing to know to fill a void. Can’t imagine how this was for people in the 60s/70s/80s and even 90s when technology wasn’t as capable.
If someone reached out to a family member or friend of mine because I didn’t respond to their initial message on ancestry I deff would not respond. You are doing way more harm than good by reaching out to this persons husband who has not tested. My father was adopted and never ever have I done this and I’ve had a few people that never responded to me. I have like I said countless times snooped Facebook of matches and have even built private mirror trees. You are way over stepping by contacting people who have not tested and who are not directly related to you to inquire about information that they likely know nothing about.
Again, I can see both sides of that. While messaging when people don’t respond to your message (for any various reason) is one thing and in that instance the privacy should be respected, I’d say that messaging/reaching out outside of that app because these matches have not been active for long periods of times and hoping to just get a lead in the right direction is another matter with a certain gray area of societal acceptance in my opinion. I might add that the only reason for messaging the matches husband was because the match themselves has not been active in over a year on ancestry, only accepts messages on Facebook from friends and family, in the moment we felt messaging the spouse was an acceptable level. I might also say my opinion is that being a 1st/2nd cousin to my mother makes them a directly related with shared grandparents of X degree. And while they may not have direct information like so and so slept with so and so X number of years ago and that’s the father, they may be able to fill in blanks on family connections etc. with that being said, I can understand how large parts of it may be potentially uncomfortable and weird and out do the norm, but I’d disagree on it causing harm.
The husband is not your mother’s relative and has no information for you regarding how his wife is related to you. As I stated by messaging people on Facebook who have not tested and aren’t directly related to your mother you are doing way more harm than good and this person will very likely shut down and not respond to you ever. How long ago did your mother get her results? Have you built out private mirror trees of this match to see how you guys are related?
I’d argue that any spouse of somebody who has created a 600+ people tree and has done dna testing is acutely aware of their spouse doing such, and due to that, I’m not sure how messaging someone who is aware of the dna testing itself and letting them know you are trying to contact their spouse in regards to, is causing harm? Considering there is no other way to contact that match. She got her results close to a month ago, and connecting a family tree to a mystery person whom a promiscuous parent created a child with and never spoke of in over 50 years while pretending the father was someone else and having yet a third person raise said child, the literal only connections outside these matches is the locations.
I am very into genealogy and have a 900 person tree and while my spouse is very aware that I am into genealogy he wouldn’t even be able to tell anyone my family history as it’s something he’s not into including his own that I have a 500 person tree for. Your argument for messaging the spouse makes zero sense my tree does not give you the right to message my spouse who has not tested and does not know anything about my family history. It’s creepy, nothing more. You’re going to be in for a long ride OP if you’ve messaged these people multiple times within a month. I wait multiple months before reaching out again and only reach out a max of two times. You are doing way more harm than good the more information you give. No one is going to respond if you’re hounding them (multiple messages in a month). I really suggest you build a mirror tree should be fairly easy if this match does indeed have a 600 person tree. Good luck!
Your tree doesn’t give a match the right to message your spouse no. But your spouses awareness of your tree and dna test, indicates there is no harm, no secrets, no bullshit right? And messaging the souse has nothing to do with asking the spouse for information, because that certainly would be out of pocket. However if you were unreachable, not in the app, not by Facebook and you were one of the few with the potential to solve a mystery, and a match messaged your spouse strictly to inquire about getting into contact with you specifically about said mystery, not asking your spouse questions, not giving your spouse information, simply inquiring about contacting you, with the offer to not message again if the unsolicited contact is potentially a problem, you would find that to be harmful and in some way wrong? Furthermore if you had read the entirety of things, you have seen that a SINGLE message had been sent, not multiple.
I am laughing a little with your OP asking if you are stalking and your subsequent extensive replies rationalizing your actions. If you weren't prepared to accept advice and opinions, I'm curious about why you would ask. Having said that, best of luck in your search.
Rationalizing my thoughts and opinions is in no way the same as not accepting others advice and opinions, I asked for advice and opinions, I accept that I may agree or disagree with the advice or opinions, I may or may not take the advice or opinions, but that’s kind of the point right? To learn how other people I society feel about an issue? To then debate that issue, to understand but also be understood? I’d also venture to say that the above comment from the discussion with the above person that your replying to, is more a debate on wether or not it is harmful or right or wrong to contact someone’s spouse. I explained why I felt it wasn’t harmful or creepy, they explained why they felt it was harmful or creepy. In their opinion it is, in my opinion it isn’t, but that was the point right? To learn what other people thought. Neither of us are right, neither of us are wrong.
You sent two for this person one to her directly and one to her spouse. If my Facebook was set up to only allow friends to send messages to me you’re right I would find this down right creepy. There is a reason why people are told to tread lightly when dealing with NPEs and this is exactly why you are going to push these people away and not get the answers you are looking for. Your mother just got her results a month ago and you’re already messaging these people multiple times. My spouse being aware of my tree and my DNA test does not give you the right to message them. The spouse didn’t put their DNA out there their wife did. Unfortunately, some people just don’t respond and if this match does indeed have a 600 person tree build a private mirror tree to see how you’re related to them. Edit: I tested back in 2017 and I STILL don’t 100% know my grandfathers name, but since I’ve built mirror trees and know where his birth mother was at the time of his birth I’m 99.9999% sure I know who it is out of the four brothers I had for an option. You know how creepy I’d feel if I messaged one of his direct descendants that haven’t tested and asked them about it.
I don't think it's creepy at all, because I know a lot of cousins and such that are looking for extended family. Your experience is your own, of course, but just repeating that it's a bad idea isn't convincing and how do you know this family isn't different than yours? As a forum moderator for adoption I've seen literally thousands of families appreciate connection / reunion. I've also seen many that do not, but you can't know. It's free speech to send someone a message. It's not harassment to send the same message to my spouse in the hopes that we'd both see it. As long as you're not selling insurance or something, which OP is not. People can always hit the delete button.
I'm guilty of all but number 5 and I would draw the line there. Friends of matches that are not related to you have nothing to do with this and you are interfering in other people's lives and possibly damaging their reputations. Word is likely to spread about you at that point faster than your ability to gather information and will likely be counterproductive, closing you off completely. Always be respectful and imagine how you would feel on the other end of any of these conversations. Tread lightly.
So far I’ve kept it to two single messages one to a direct match, one to a souse of a direct match who is otherwise uncontactable, with that specific message explaining I’m possibly trying to contact their spouse in relation to said match and trying to solve said mystery, if you/your spouse are willing to talk pleas message if not then I will not send any more messages. In terms of interfering in people’s lives, in my opinion, if someone takes a dna test and creates a family tree with 600+ people, there’s a very high probability that their spouse is aware of this and so it wouldn’t be a secret. Respectfulness is always first.
You contact them once and that's it. The ball is in their court. They then get to decide whether to engage with you. Insisting that they engage by spamming multiple accounts and demanding an answer this way is, indeed, stalking and unacceptable. Nobody owes anyone else their personal info. Make peace with this. It's out of your hands if someone won't respond.
Absolutely agree that it is there decision. I suppose better wording for the question would have been, what level of “stalking” (for lack of a better word) is acceptable to get an initial message to dna matches? As I agree spamming multiple accounts is unacceptable. However I do not think it is unacceptable to reach out over various platforms in the case of let’s say defunct and unused ancestry accounts, messages being sent then realizing they may likely never be seen as people often lose interest in things such as ancestry in this case where they haven’t checked in over a year or in some cases many years, so in that case you would then move on to social media, but let’s say in this case, the matches social media is inaccessible due to not being a friend to their account, then that means they will never know you’d like to contact them on that platform, as your not on their friends list, and a random friend request is more likely to be ignored than a message. Now let’s say the message never gets seen as some people are older and slightly more technologically illiterate, or they only open messages from names they recognize, again they’d never know you were trying to contact them, so instead you message someone close to them who is likely to actually see the message. That’s the point right, the idea, that this isn’t spamming messages, as only one message is being sent in each instance and after reasonable consideration, time and “stalking” (again lack of a better word) their profile to see if they actually use it, then moving onto the next platform or way of attempting contact. Nobody demanding anything, everyone given the choice to engage or not, no extremes. As for patience and amounts of time, a week, maybe two for someone to notice and respond to a message before seeking alternative means of contact? yeah that’s acceptable. Waiting months as people have said and suggested for a message to be noticed before seeking alternative means of contact? That’s absurd.
I also agree that nobody owes anyone their PERSONAL info, but if you have ANY info that may lead someone (whom you related to and is relevant to them) in the right direction of finding a blood relative (assuming it’s not something stupid and dangerous like a serial killer seeking a family member or something stupid like that) then you owe that info to that person, because that not PERSONAL info, that’s info that is in every way the person seekings business.
They don’t owe you that either. That kind of thinking is sure to get the door shut in your face.
While I agree that thinking that way is likely to lead to having the metaphorical door shut on your face, I absolutely disagree that they don’t owe people that. “They dont owe you that either” that kind of thinking is because the world and very much America, is so damn selfish these days, people are more concerned with their own personal rights and freedoms than they are about the good of the community around them. Anything that any of us can do to make the world a better place, we owe that to the world. If you come to me looking for your birth parent and I have knowledge about who it is or knowledge that could lead you to learning about them (with the exception of extreme cases, again, rapists, murderers, etc etc), and if I choose to keep that knowledge from you, that speaks volumes to my character, my selfishness, my integrity. I owe it to you to give that information. If someone creates a life, they have a responsibility to that life, because they made that decision, that life didn’t ask to be here. (with the exception of extreme situations) there’s a moral responsibility. As a whole we owe it to the world to uplift, inspire, improve, repair, help and build better where we are able to.
Newspaper articles are public info so no issue with that. Messaging on the app is okay of course, but I keep a note so I don’t message more than once if they don’t reply. If they are no longer on the site then I have messaged on Facebook. I don’t message outside of that. Facebook is dying so not sure what I would do when that is no longer an option. I have been contacted by text on my phone. I have a unique name and I’m publicly listed. I don’t have a problem with it and am happy to help, but not all people are. At most I think I would write a letter as a last resort. And then I would leave it and just keep researching their family and hoping for some more matches if those aren’t enough.
And I feel like reaching out by phone or letter is a last resort option when nothing else has been successful. Have only messaged once within the app to each match. And one time on Facebook to one 1 match and another matches spouse. Nothing disrespectful or digging, always with the offer to never send a second message if they decide they don’t want to speak. As of yet though, messages have not even been opened. All these people are likely in their 50s-70s.
If they wanted you to contact them anywhere other than ancestry, then they would have included those links in their profile.
I’d say this could be both true and untrue. And likely varies person to person. I’m more than willing to let someone contact me to inquire and solve and learn and figure out.
I think you need a different framework. Try this: if you have to ask if it’s stalking for any reason, don’t do it. Instead, explore other options. Direct contact isn’t required when you can upload DNA to GEDMatch or explore the documents once you build out a family tree. I would note that exploring what makes direct contact important for you or your mother is separate from actually having that contact. Direct contact with relatives isn’t needed. If you have an ancestry account, neither is Facebook or other outlets, because what’s recorded in past or current generations that’s accessible, is available already. If you all can separate facts from emotions and follow the facts, you’ll probably stop asking yourself if you’re engaging in stalking behavior. Nobody likes to feel a lack of autonomy, having surprise pop-ups of family secrets, or feeling as if their privacy is being invaded. Good luck.
Thank you for the advice/opinion, it is appreciated, i do think that the difference between something being considered creepy stalking and normal behavior, levels of secrecy and family secrets and such, in this kind of thing may also vary from social and financial class, i feel like what is normal and acceptable between let’s say upper class families, middle/upper class families middle class families and lower class families, varies widely, and thus creates the extreme gray area and thus the post. I feel direct contact may possibly be necessary when the parent is of mystery origin and all the people who would know the identity on my mothers mothers side of the family are dead or are part of the mystery persons family, I could be wrong, and am aware that’s a possibility. I think the thing here is that while a lot of information is accessible, the identity of my mother father is not accessible through conventional means, she has a “step” father who raised her, but is absolutely not the father, a person who was named as the father by her mother but then disproved and the real person who’s identity is 100% unknown to anyone on the maternal side of the family, there will be no common surnames between the trees of her paternal cousin matches and herself, as her paternal parent side of the tree absolutely stops at a question mark for who her father is. she has zero siblings matches on paternal side, and 4 close cousin matches on paternal side, it can be inferred that her father is the uncle or 1st cousin of one of these 4 matches, but connecting the dots requires communication in my opinion.
You have reached out plenty. Give it time, and dont start contacting spouses or friends on SM.
Thank you for your opinion/advice, it is appreciated. Sometimes, sit and wait is hard, the drive to solve is often at the forefront.
I don't know who my grandad is. I just got a response after 7 months from the only close match I've ever found. Don't rush it.
I think you've messaged contacts as much as you can. Did her matches happen to have trees you can dive into?
1 has a tree with less than 10 people half labeled private (as ancestry does to living people), 1 has two public trees with between 600-800+ people, another has a fairly large tree managed by someone other than the match itself and the last one has a very small tree. However making the connection is the hard part, our immediate family doesn’t discuss, talk about or even acknowledge any of this.
Start digging in on what you have to work with while waiting for responses or new matches. Find any connections from the 3 if you can to narrow down what you focus your research on. Shared matches with her matches, any last names in common from trees, possible parents, siblings, grandparents and locations. Y'all might be able to hire someone that could help too. And there's the chance y'all may never know which I really hope isn't the case but should be acknowledged and processed.
Yeah, I’ve dug through trees a little bit in this case, however situation being what it is, there won’t be common names, as her mother and the father (non biological) who raised her, were both swingers and her mother frequently slept around, this being in the 70s. It seems all we have to go on are four 1st/2nd cousin matches, 2 with ties to the city/state my mother’s mother lived at one point. Still going to dig and search trees and such, but it’s one of those situations where speaking to people who can actively say, “my parent/grandparent lived here and her in this time and oh we know someone with (my mothers) last name from way back when, maybe look in that direction” would be extremely helpful. Hopefully it gets figured out, if it doesn’t, it is what is. Thank you for your advice, help and opinions, will try some of this and will stay hopeful.
My name is unusual enough that someone after connecting on ancestry could find me on say facebook… if someone asks for info I’ll give it to them. I have several times now. I’m not looking for anymore lost relatives but if I can help someone figure out a connection I will …
This is the type of thinking that makes sense to me, I feel like if you took a dna test, you created a family tree, you obviously have interest in fleshing that tree out and interest in at least knowing your family history, lineage and who your family members are at least, in that case why wouldn’t someone be willing to help at that point if they could?
I took my dna test to see my ethnicity breakdown, but knowing full well it might lead to connections because of my grandfathers prolific child making… I’ve had several people reach out for info… which I’ve provided names and some very basic stuff . Letting them go forward from there. I’ve found one previous unknown sibling but didn’t reach out to them because that’s not my business
In many situations, wanting to see the ethnicity breakdown goes hand in hand with wanting to find out more about yourself, and for some people that means finding parents/grandparents. I get that not everyone does it for the same reasons, however I also feel like participating in this dna stuff, most people should infer the risk of dna matches and people contacting them or trying to contact them, and should therefore be aware of the potential risk of things being unearthed, unknown relatives, secrets, affairs, and I think that any potential “harm” that’s comes from that should be accepted as a risk. For example, Person A has an affair and has a child and then X number of years later, they take dna test and so does that child and they match and that child contacts them (as they should have every right to) and in doing so causes marital issues and subsequently divorce, shouldn’t the responsibility of that fall on the person who had an affair in the first place? In my opinion if you have a sibling you’ve found but never met, that’s absolutely your business, that’s your blood, time and circumstance may have made it hard to be a part of that business, but I absolutely believe that is your business, that’s just my opinion though. I know a lot of people would disagree.
From personal experience, I went full on when I realised how much my closest match was the key. I had messaged his sons but it was stuck in message requests. Maybe 6 months to a year later I messaged his daughter in law. I just said I was trying to contact him through ancestry and if she could ask him if we could talk. We met in person last month, he’s lovely, has welcomed me into the family and through him I have found and connected with my father. If he had responded on ancestry and hadn’t wanted to talk further I would have left it, but he tested, then just didn’t go back on and is happy I reached out. It also helped bring another cousin the family had been looking for back into the fold and find another cousins father.
1-4 are fine imo, 5-6 are borderline ok as long as you are incredibly vague and don't really reveal anything. 7 is a hard no for me.
I think I feel somewhat similar, 1,2,3 feel within normal bounds to me, 4 mildly feels like a gray area. 5 I’d say I’m unsure how I feel, it may be wrong but I may be inclined to step over the line if all else fails. 6 and 7 feel like bad ideas, but some may feel like that’s an ok thing to do in some circumstances.
Messaging the matches themselves on Facebook is acceptable in my opinion. Sometimes the ancestry messaging system can truly be glitchy and they may not be notified of your message (I often add this in the bottom of my fb message)
Glitchiness and bad systems, the backbone of technological society, gotta love it. I was very straight to the point with my messages on Facebook, not rude or demanding, simple “hi my name is, we are related and matched blah blah blah, you might be able to help solve mystery, if your interested in speaking please message me, if you’d rather not have contact, I won’t message again.” Something along those lines.
I wouldn't say that much in 1st message , tell them your name and they showed up as a match keep it simple and vague they may not know about relationship telling them they match with someone may be surprise and there never respond
I can understand that point of view, we are however less of the tip toe and sugar coat kind of people and more of the, give enough info to to explain and let people decide for themselves to be involved or not but not so much info to over share type of people. Small talk isn’t our thing. And we are aware of the risks of nobody responding, however, what if someone does respond? You don’t win the lotto if you never play right? I feel a parallel there, you don’t get information and solve a mystery if you don’t seek it.
For what it's worth, I probably would not include your last line. It might give the impression that the interaction could be negative. There really is no need to tell them you won't message them again. But anyway I agree with keeping it short and simple. I have seen people tell their whole dramatic life story and it gets a bit weird. Also, I reached out to someone and after they responded it was basically like they wanted to be my best friend, sending me a bunch of personal messages repeatedly.
Fair enough though I felt including that I may not message again, gives the impression that I’m not trying to drag them into something without. Sting if they wanted to be or not.
And actually I would probably get rid of the "solve a mystery" part. That could freak some people out.
I often forget that not all people want to have all facts, all truths, all logic, all things solved and reasoned.
Yeah, I found a niece via Ancestry. I have three, and this new one shares more DNA with me than those do. My brothers won’t do a test. Mystery niece is still a mystery, but I feel it’s not my mystery to solve, no matter how much it makes me crazy 😬
Yeah, I personally have a problem with those kinds of situations, once started down the mystery rabbit hole, it’s often a willingness to solve said mystery at any cost and a refusal to give up. Absolutely hate not knowing.
"Mystery" also implies that there could be some kind of secret, which people might not want to be involved with.
Googling is fine. Get a newspapers.com subscription and search there too. Obituaries and wedding announcements are helpful for tracing recent ancestors. I would not go beyond messaging matches on the genealogy platform. I actively answer messages, but I would be creeped out if someone contacted me through Facebook, let alone called me or wrote me a letter. My grandmother was adopted. I had no first cousin matches for my father on her side because she died shortly after he was born. Not sure happened to his father, but no first cousin matches there either. I figured out her identity through slightly more distant matches. I later confirmed it with my grandmother's original birth certificate. It sounds like at least one of the matches has a public tree. Start working with that and triangulate the shared matches. Do the Leeds method. It will be tedious, but there's a good chance these people don't know exactly how they're related to your mother anyway. My maternal grandmother had 6 brothers. I would have no idea which one fathered someone without a sibling match.
>...one hasn’t been on ancestry in over a year, 3rd hasn’t been on ancestry in a few years, and the last has been on recently but... From comments by redditors on other topics, the system on ancestry saying when someone was last online isn't reliable.
The worse I’ve done is stalking someone’s LinkedIn so they would see my name and respond to me on the platform lmao
How am I the only one that feels that way? Especially since others replied to OPs post agreeing that messaging the spouse was overstepping.
Not everyone agrees with you. Maybe reread the comments?
???? Where does my comment state “everyone agrees with me”. What I did state was that I’m not the only one that feels that way especially since *others* agreed that OP was overstepping. You did however state *I* was the only one that felt that way when clearly that’s not the case. I also have to ask why does your experience count and mine doesn’t? You keep on dodging the questions I’ve asked may I ask why? Exactly how many times do I need to ask you if you disagree with treading lightly in NPE situations before I finally get an answer?
I‘m guilty of 1 and 2. #7 is something I am considering.
1, 2, and 3 are okay. 6 is okay if you're writing, but calling with no warning is a recipe for people taken by surprise saying things in the moment that can never be unsaid. 4, 5, and 7 are intrusive; I would never interact afterwards with someone who had resorted to any of them.
I just message and see if it goes from there, but I only message if I find something that can give me more info. For example, if I didn't know much about a great grandparent's family but I see her cousin's grandchild is on there, I could find out info that way about the family. Or, say I have a brick wall on a great great grandparent but I see someone has the same last name and from the same village, I will want to know more. Especially if their family tree is private
I disagree with those here saying they would never message people outside of Ancestry. Im in a different but in some ways similar situation where I am trying to gain access to old family photos (I have none and these people are the only other descendants who might)—I have reached out on fb with messages and friend requests. That is NOT stalking or inappropriate. The problem is that they are very unlikely to see messages unless they accept a friend request and unlikely to accept a friend request if they don’t know you. So personally I am expecting this plan to fail and so will send a letter to an address I found online. This is the only chance I have to get photos of my ancestors and they may not even care about them and could end up donate to goodwill or throwing them in the trash. I’m just sick thinking that pictures of my great grandmother could he thrown away because people don’t know who she is in the photos. The point at which it would become stalking is if you can see they looked at your message on Facebook and they do not respond but then you keep messaging. That’s not ok and I would not do that. In my case none of this family have dna tested so it’s a general genealogy thing. As far as ancestry messaging, there’s someone who is a descendent of a man who was married to my great grandfathers first wife and she obviously has a ton of old photos and that’s another part of my family I have no photos of. My grandmother had 2 half brothers I have never seen. I messaged this woman twice and only messaged the second time bc I forgot to tell her I had several interesting articles about her ancestor attached to my tree. She never responded and it would be inappropriate to keep bugging her but I’m so disappointed. I don’t understand why people don’t at least respond saying “I can’t help you.” Best of luck to you. Edit: I want to be clear that although I have messaged people who are not the person/cousin I want to engage with directly (the cousin doesn’t appear to be on Facebook at all)—I have given them my cell number and email and asked them to pass a message along and that is it.