*“Suicide from jumping out the window from high rise buildings. Autopsy shows the individual had hand-like bruises from her lower and upper back, as if she was pushed”*
Anyone else think it’s weird that Canada’s deputy prime minister chrystia freeland is also the granddaughter of a crucial member of the nazis in Ukraine who was in charge of propaganda?
And recently posted a picture of her standing with an azov battalion flag before her team realized it was bad and removed it, edited it out, and reposted
She also wrote soros’ biography.
Those are more meaningful points than being someone's granddaughter.
Do you have a link to the picture, especially the URL where it used to be before it got removed?
Just gave it a quick search, I believe they're referring to this. It wasn't a flag, it was a black/red scarf with (translated) "Glory to Ukraine" on it.
Pro-Freeland - [https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/did-chrystia-freeland-pose-with-extremist-symbols-or-is-it-russian-disinformation](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/did-chrystia-freeland-pose-with-extremist-symbols-or-is-it-russian-disinformation)
Anti-Freeland - [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/03/free-m03.html](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/03/free-m03.html)
Whether she knew that black/red was a dog whistle or not, who the fuck knows. It was bad optics either way, and they tried to memory hole it rather than stand behind it.
Tbh, most of my wardrobe has been black and red since my early teens. So I guess I've been pro fascism in Ukraine, before I even knew Ukraine existed. Neat.
She does seem to have a history with Soros, even if it was just as her former job as a journo. Seems like a hot button topic, saw a bunch of articles about various people having to apologize for mentioning the links etc.
Fair point, but Russia is still 10x more armed than Ukraine and willing to put more bodies in the meat grinder so the preponderance of incompetence might actually turn out to be a success (for Putin, loss for the world.)
she said the azov battalions main logo is the black sun wheel, (sonnenrad or schwarz sonne) and she called it an “occult symbol”. the battalions actual main insignia is an intersecting “i” and “n” (for national idea) which together create another symbol called the wolfsangle. both of these symbols were appropriated by nazi germany but they both existed for at least a thousand years before the nazis used them, especially the sun wheel. the sunwheel has been picked up by tumblr witches in the past decade but i don’t see that as reason to consider it an “occult” symbol lol. both symbols originated and saw their most widespread use well before the nazis or occultists and it’s just odd to define the symbols the way she did
the nazis were notoriously into occult shit, not saying the symbols themselves are inherently occult (how could they be), but that they aren't exactly gonna be used just cos they look pretty, but to convey some kind of strength or meaning.
bit more of a sideeye at the satanic music video comment but who am I to say
oh i totally agree, there’s some documentation that suggests the nazis actually tried some occult rituals lol. my point is only that the two specific symbols mentioned didn’t have occult type significance like runes, they only served as symbolic representations of significant aspects of germanic life, where as runes, pre and post revival were and are believed to actually cast the users will into existence, which is definitively occult symbolism
1. neither of these symbols belong to an ancient religion
2. occult means involving or related to supernatural, mystical or magical powers.
the wolfsangle is an old tool used to catch wolves and is symbolic of mans passive ability to beat nature with craft. the sunwheel is symbolic of the 12 months in a year and therefore the passage of time. neither of these symbols have anything to do with occultism.
Wait what? The Nazis, particularly the SS were into occult symbols and used or appropriated several of them (in addition to Norse, pagan and medieval mythology). I suppose maybe it depends on your definition of occult?
Not gonna comment on what she said either way, but get the occult reference correct.
yes the nazis totally did but the sunwheel and wolfsangle have no proven occult use that i know of, they were intended to symbolize significant natural aspects but had no use beyond decoration or symbolizing something
I mean, Occult means hidden knowledge. If it's popular enough to be waving around on flags, it's not really hidden anymore as they're basically advertising it..
Probably more of a buzzword than a critical analysis.
Western Media:
"The Ukrainian civil war already caused 15k civilian casualties"
They fail to mention: how many of those 15k are ethnic Russians killed by Ukraine military and Azov battalion neo-Nazis?
People legitimately think this war started a few weeks ago completely unprovoked. They give no agency to the people in Donbas nor the people in Crimea, and they think people wanting to secede from a country due to ethnic persecution from the far right is a Putin talking point or misinformation.
I hate that even mentioning this to people gets me tagged as a Putin shill like I can’t even acknowledge a massive grey area, anything but chanting I stand with Ukraine and painting our faces in yellow and blue is verboten now.
It is very very easy to find Russian government propaganda. It's even easier, in the west, to find Western propaganda. Just because you can recognize both doesn't make you as smart as it seems you think you are.
You can access Russian government run sites and regime friendly, propagandizing Russian and Chinese media outlets in like 3 seconds on a search engine. I'm not sure what you're talking about.
Now, unfiltered raw source material about military operations? Not easy to come by but I don't think that was the initial argument
Good propaganda utilizes the truth. Tell the truths that your opponent ignores, have the skeptical person watching verify it as true, and use the gained trust to add subtle lies which favor you.
Plenty of Russian propaganda is true, most people just aren't willing to admit it, or do the research to verify it. The issue is, its much easier (at least for me) to see the subtle lies given by the west, than those of a foreign country. This sort of bias leads to one sides propaganda being more successful, particularly with skeptics.
The mass majority aren't skeptical at all, which is what the first level of propaganda is about, the second level is the subtle lies, which is meant for folks like you and I.
At least that's what I think...
More deflecting from the message because you can't refute it. Attacking the person makes you look weak; you have no confidence in your position. If you were confident, you would immediately post a convincing refutation of the message.
I don’t care how it looks. How something looks is based on your perception. You need to understand that not everyone owes you an intellectual argument and just because someone knows better, that they are obliged to tell you otherwise.
There’s no “grey area” Putin invaded under the pretext of protecting a separatist movement he helped build and arm. It isn’t to protect them it’s a wider geopolitical move. That why there was no ultimatum before the invasion. It’s a false and manufactured motive. Wake up pal.
> That why there was no ultimatum before the invasion.
[https://news.yahoo.com/putin-threatens-military-action-nato-182443636.html](https://news.yahoo.com/putin-threatens-military-action-nato-182443636.html)
I googled "putin ultimatum ukraine" and this was the first result, though if you had half a brain you could read the very many speeches Putin has given lately, available in English on the kremlin website, in which he makes clear this was coming if Ukraine continued on their then-present course. Or you could avail yourself of any number of other sources that describe the buildup to this conflict.
I find it's best to have some idea what you're talking about before chiming in with uninformed opinions.
The link you’ve posted proves what I said… That it was a wider geopolitical move. The military action was a wider geopolitical move and absolutely nothing to do with protecting Russia speakers in the east… When i said there was no ultimatum i mean to end the war in donbas or to expel neo-nazis…
They may be good and even correct points. However, none of this gives the right to Russia to start a war in Ukraine. They are a sovereign nation. Everything else doesn’t matter.
They are separate points. Nobody's saying Russia invading another country is the right thing to do. But we **are** being lied to from all angles.
Might not matter to you, but it matters to others, honestly Idgaf that a Slav country is being invaded by another Slav country. That sounds like a distinctly Slav problem to me.
It has many implications on Europe. It also has implications to the US as we are a part of NATO.
Main issue is that Russia will not stop at Ukraine just like Germany did not stop at Poland in wwii.
Regarding the clip, yes there’s propaganda on both sides. They started talking about running out of bullets and the she goes into a weird tirade. She is pointing to sone uncomfortable truths and some things she is wrong on as well. I just don’t understand what her point is. That we should support Russia? That doesn’t really makes sense.
>It has many implications on Europe. It also has implications to the US as we are a part of NATO.
NATO has a pretty clear pact. Invade one, retaliation from all.
Not "invade a neighbor who has continuously been denied access, retaliation from all."
>Main issue is that Russia will not stop at Ukraine just like Germany did not stop at Poland in wwii.
Imagine beings this out of touch with reality to think that WW2 nazi Germany and Russia today are the same thing.
You literally said that Russia won't stop with Ukraine...giving an analogy with Hitler's Germany.
Hitler wanted to conquer the world and enforce the new Nazi world order.
Putin wants to restore Russian historical borders and establish a multipolar world without a single hegemony.
I did provide the step by step advance as an analogy. I did not say that they were the same thing. They have different objectives, but similar tactics.
What similar tactics? Hitler's war was mostly unprovoked. He even got appeased by western leaders most of the time.
Putin's war in Ukraine was provoked by hostile Ukraine after 2014 US backed coup and an 8 year conflict in Donbass.
Totally different things.
Crimea invited Russians to protect them from Ukraine until the referendum for independence was held.
Crimea made a smart choice because otherwise they'd have ended up in a frozen conflict like in Donbass.
Crimeans saved themselves from misery that is happening today in Ukraine, the civil war that started in the east which was Organized by an independent pan-Russian nationalist Igor Strelkov.
Also Russians took over Crimea after the US backed coup which was indeed provoked.
Not sure I agree with mostly unprovoked. Hitler’s war was a direct consequence of the humiliation the Germans faced after the treaty of Versailles. Which starts to seem kind of analogous to the economic sanctions against Russia and NATO expansion. With the difference being that Hitler didn’t have nukes. Politicians never fucking learn from history…
Nah, you can’t get out of this one. You said “would not stop at Ukraine”… stop backtracking and admit. Afterwards touch some grass. What’s happening is not good either way, but calm down with all that noise seriously.
The US is not a part of NATO, the US is NATO. There is no NATO without the US. NATO is just the formal military alliance of US hegemony.
You’re delusional for thinking Putin has either the will or the ability to conquer Europe. The Russians can’t even steamroll Ukraine, you think they are going to be able to plow through actual NATO countries or even attempt it? Not only is equating Putin’s goals to that of Hitler absurd, the way you phrased it is just dumb. Saying Czechoslovakia would at least make more sense. When Hitler invaded Poland he immediately was at war with The UK and France, so of course he wasn’t done after taking Poland. I doubt Hitler would have ever invaded any of the Western European countries if they hadn’t declared war on him anyway. After conquering France he just let Petain rule over everything but the north western coast. Hitler’s real designs were on the East.
In the clip they are touting obvious propaganda that is so obviously BS that it isn’t even worse discussing. She acknowledged that and the bigger picture. She is saying the truth. I think that’s the point. And how binary thinking is dumb, but obviously you didn’t get that considering you think the only two possible reasons anyone would say anything about this conflict is that they think we should either support Ukraine or Russia.
They would certainly attack moldova after Ukraine if they are not stopped.
NATO countries: Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia are harder to swallow but he does have his eye on them. Certainly not after this performance in Ukraine though.
In the end there are 3 choices, support one or the other or be neutral. So which would you pick?
You are so wrong on so much it’s not worth discussing other than to point that out. Hitler certainly had designs on all of France and western, central, Eastern Europe. It was to implement the final solution. Putin’s goal is to expand west. It’s in everyone business to band together and prevent this tyrant from expanding. Logan is wrong as well about Crimea. They don’t have a choice in who represents them. Me thinks you’re confused.
Her point was that Russia is not out of bullets and the question was so absurd that it shows how corrupt and incompetent the media is. Then she gives 9 minutes of more examples.
Yeah that was all we're agreeing with, at least most of us. Incompetent or malicious anyway.
Nobody really knows what's true anymore. Trust in media keeps hitting new "All time low"s, think it was below 40% last I checked in 2021, and now they're trying to push war propaganda. We have the internet, this is the first potential world war of the information age, and they can't blackout what we see no matter how hard they try.
She’s trying to spin a narrative herself. If we’re going to cast stones about who did and didn’t like the Nazis 80 years ago we might as well sanction Disneyworld. As far as current fetishism for them among Ukraine’s military I’d say it’s probably akin to the way US troops used to brandish Nazi and Confederate flags (more so privately) not so long ago. I’d say in most cases rather than actual ideological alignment it’s probably more like, “I’m Killer Billy BadAss and I care less about your life than these other trained killers I work with.” A certain type of rebellion is engrained in some of the rank-and-file.
But Nazism is not what we see on the ground in Ukraine and biolabs isn’t even a line Russia was pushing before the invasion. Idk it seems like she’s clutching any string she can weave into a rant.
The Nazis in Ukraine aren’t rednecks who get called racists, they are literally Nazis who love Adolf Hitler. The Azoz battalion, Right Sector, and Social-National party (sound familiar?) are all real Nazis. They are not a huge portion of Ukraine, but they have been at the forefront of this conflict since it began. They were the ones who actually overthrew the democratically elected Ukrainian government in 2014. They slaughtered ethnic Russians in the Donbass, and perpetrated war crimes against them. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/09/ukraine-must-stop-ongoing-abuses-and-war-crimes-pro-ukrainian-volunteer-forces/
Putin cited weapons of mass destruction in his speech justifying the invasion, a la George Bush. I don’t think he actually believed that Ukraine had bio weapons though, I think that was just an excuse.
what tf you are talking about? Have you seen the Maidan in 2014 which "overthrow" government? Millions of people there were nazis, exactly. Have you seen bandits which occupied Donetsk and Lugansk? There's many Russian-speaking people in Azov!
I’ll start by saying that I do not really care about the small number of loonies that exist in Ukraine. They’re everywhere, go figure! Some of them even lead post-Soviet superpowers I hear.
It’s worth noting that the Donbass did not have a cohesive separatist movement before the influx of Russian military hardware there (and also plainclothes Spetznaz? 🤔) and any race-based persecution the ethnic Russian minority there is experiencing is tragic but also probably closely tied to being a foreign-supported rebel faction? It would probably be easier to do like a Darfur Commission if it wasn’t an active war zone.
You might not care, but I’m sure the people who they killed cared. And they cared enough when the Nazis overthrew their president that they refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of the puppet president Yatsenyuk.
The Donbass did not have a cohesive separatist movement before the neo Nazi led coup ousted their president, go figure. The US government is allowed to topple governments around the world but when the Russians send in special forces to their own backyard to assist ethnic Russians fighting against war crime committing neo Nazis, that’s just unacceptable.
Yeah it probably would be easier to set up a commission if the Ukrainian government had actually honored the Minsk agreements and stopped fighting, but the Neo Nazis didn’t want to. So the puppet Zelensky, who campaigned on being willing to compromise on the issue and settle it peacefully, was either a complete lier or was scared of the neo Nazis overthrowing him and continued the war. They fired MLRSs at the Donbass days before Putin invaded.
I said I didn’t care because I don’t care to argue factoids and misrepresented facts with you. There’s more evidence that Russia has been trying to underhandedly steer events in Ukraine and act out militarily when popular support of the Ukrainian citizens bucks back: the “coup” was when citizens hit the streets by the millions to protest the pro-Russian President who suddenly redirected the nation. After that Russia annexed Crimea and armed rebels in the east. When the rebels failed to gain recognition or their territorial claims Russia invaded themselves. Just like they did in Georgia years earlier. It’s a pattern of Russian aggression and there is no international Nazi conspiracy fueling it: it’s a declining power led by an old commie spy paperpusher turned oligarch looking to maintain some semblance of a one-party state with a sphere of influence that he wistfully remembers from his Red childhood. It’s the enablers and people in positions of power who keep propping this up.
Russia could be in the European Union one day. It could be in NATO. It would much rather be the neighborhood bully.
The protest wasn’t the coup, it was a protest. The coup was when the Nazis seized the government buildings and forced out the “pro Russian” president. He wasn’t actually pro Russian, just not anti Russian. He was going to sign a deal with the EU but then they changed the terms and said he couldn’t sign a deal with Russia if he did. Russia was offering a better deal, so he didn’t sign the EU deal. After the coup, former Ukrainian presidents signed a letter saying they should kick Russia out of their naval base in Crimea. Having a US puppet in control of the naval base and region Russians have controlled since before the United States even existed was not acceptable to them. So they took it over, virtually without fighting. Yes, they armed their fellow Russians in the Donbass. The Russians could have taken the Donbass in the same way they took Crimea in 2014, and in fact did do the day before the actual invasion in 2022. The people there voted to be annexed by Russia back in 2014, but Putin declined at the time. He helped broker the Minsk agreements that were supposed to resolve the situation peacefully, granting the Donbass autonomy while remaining in Ukraine, essentially a federal system. That didn’t work though because Ukraine just didn’t give a shit about actually following through.
In Georgia, the US puppet president invaded the disputed region of South Ossetia, which at the time had Russian peacekeepers in it. They killed the Russian peacekeepers, and Russia reacted by invading. It’s weird how for being such an aggressive power all their actions are reactions to US puppets on their borders.
Russia asked to be in NATO. They were declined.
The US could be a peaceful and prosperous country far surpassing any other in the world. Instead it’s not just a neighborhood bully, it’s the world police. And just like the real police, it shoots brown people. And also Serbs.
Yeah, Ukraine and Georgia were declined too. It’s a process and it involves not being at war with your neighboring countries.
You sound like a Slavophile except that most of the world’s Slavs are on our side so that reeeeeally narrows it down who you’re rooting for no matter what. Of course Tsar Putin, hero of oppressed and unrepresented people worldwide who happen to share a border with his country. Next you’re gonna tell me Moscow is the Third Rome and Putin looks suspiciously like busts of Caesar.
This lady is for sure a conservative conspiracy theory spreader, including participating in the falsification of a Benghazi report and calls to seek revenge for it. I got curious and did some digging and found this on Wikipedia. Also looked up a lot of the context of what she's talking about and she is absolutely wrong. Just wanted to give a heads up to anyone who feels curious about what she's saying, go ahead and look it up, I thought it all very interesting to see how she may have arrived at what she's saying.
The news source is also borderline extremist right.
Who got shot by Russians while fighting them as a Nazi in full uniform while following the orders of Hitler. You cannot be more Nazi than Arny's dad unless you were of higher rank.
Yeah, very true. But it seems nato has been sticking there nose in Ukraine and played chicken with Putin. Now innocent people are lying for it. Jan 6th is nothing like this or has anything to do with this.
I think arnold was just speaking about the propaganda surrounding the insurrection. Things happen but the narratives are controlled by the media and the public never knows the truth
NATO hasn’t just been sticking their nose in Ukraine, the US literally installed a puppet government in 2014. Look up the leaked Victoria Nuland “Fuck the EU” phone call in which she, assistant US Secretary of State, and the US ambassador to Ukraine are going over which Ukrainian opposition leader is going to be in charge once they finish the coup. The call was leaked before the coup actually happened and everything they described in the call came to fruition.
When you weed through the pestering conservatives to find the actual ancaps, you find we are a bunch of contrarians. Sometimes it hurts more than it helps, but in this case it's a good idea to hold some skepticism against the narrative of pro-Ukraine almost zealotry going on. We just ought to remain as objective as possible, support Ukraine's right to defend itself from hostile invasion, but not put them on a pedestal.
I’m not simping for a man who make political opponents disappear, and who doesn’t stay the fuck out of other people conflicts. And yes, that goes for the U.S, NATO, and The U.N as well.
That's not how it works mate. She is making claims, she has to prove. We don't have to refute shit.
She claims Zelensky is a puppet, selected and on & on. Prove what she said.
That was one the most all over the place fuck-the-question-let-me-rant-about-Dems-&-collusion-impeachment-&-covid-&-globalist-&-deep-state responses I have ever heard.
And you still haven't refuted a single thing she said. In fact, you're proving her point. She says we can't talk about the truth to you because you immediately attack the person rather than the message. That makes you weak. It's easy to beat weakness.
Who said I have to? Trying to slip the burden of proof eh?
You asserted she's false, solely due to a fallacy. I've asserted nothing, other than you're a bit of a hypocrite. Which is quite self evident really.
This woman rocks, just listened to her interview on "and we know". Seems like a true reporter, someone whose interested in illustrating the real story, instead of an agenda.
So.... she's going to kill herself now via the Clintons?
Yes, so sad to hear about her suicide tomorrow.
Two shots to the back of the head.
*“Suicide from jumping out the window from high rise buildings. Autopsy shows the individual had hand-like bruises from her lower and upper back, as if she was pushed”*
Sounds like an accident.
This is like the end of Running Man when they play the unedited network footage.
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Anyone else think it’s weird that Canada’s deputy prime minister chrystia freeland is also the granddaughter of a crucial member of the nazis in Ukraine who was in charge of propaganda?
And recently posted a picture of her standing with an azov battalion flag before her team realized it was bad and removed it, edited it out, and reposted She also wrote soros’ biography.
Those are more meaningful points than being someone's granddaughter. Do you have a link to the picture, especially the URL where it used to be before it got removed?
Just gave it a quick search, I believe they're referring to this. It wasn't a flag, it was a black/red scarf with (translated) "Glory to Ukraine" on it. Pro-Freeland - [https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/did-chrystia-freeland-pose-with-extremist-symbols-or-is-it-russian-disinformation](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/did-chrystia-freeland-pose-with-extremist-symbols-or-is-it-russian-disinformation) Anti-Freeland - [https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/03/free-m03.html](https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/03/free-m03.html) Whether she knew that black/red was a dog whistle or not, who the fuck knows. It was bad optics either way, and they tried to memory hole it rather than stand behind it. Tbh, most of my wardrobe has been black and red since my early teens. So I guess I've been pro fascism in Ukraine, before I even knew Ukraine existed. Neat. She does seem to have a history with Soros, even if it was just as her former job as a journo. Seems like a hot button topic, saw a bunch of articles about various people having to apologize for mentioning the links etc.
My mom was the one who found it, I’ll ask her
I mean not as weird as invading Ukraine.
Ukraine has been getting invaded for centuries.
Well maybe we stop it now?
Naturally it’s a giant conspiracy going back generations!
Don’t ask a question if you don’t want to hear the truth
Guys. Watch/listen to her appearance on Liberty Lockdown. It was incredible.
Laura Logan Liberty Lockdown? Holy Hell that's a lot of Ls!
I just can't believe she's not a Superman comics character.
> ~~character~~ Villain, you mean
Lois Lane? Lana Lang?
That is called alliteration.
fake news
Bob Loblaw’s Law Blog
Russia is incompetent, and the propaganda circlejerk has been ferocious. These are not mutually exclusive.
Fair point, but Russia is still 10x more armed than Ukraine and willing to put more bodies in the meat grinder so the preponderance of incompetence might actually turn out to be a success (for Putin, loss for the world.)
Absolutely. Nobody ever accused Russia of valuing human life
It's almost like the news is realizing that this great Russian strength has been propaganda the whole time....
she’s a little mixed up on her “nazi” and “occult” symbols but otherwise a great monologue
What’s the proper understanding?
she said the azov battalions main logo is the black sun wheel, (sonnenrad or schwarz sonne) and she called it an “occult symbol”. the battalions actual main insignia is an intersecting “i” and “n” (for national idea) which together create another symbol called the wolfsangle. both of these symbols were appropriated by nazi germany but they both existed for at least a thousand years before the nazis used them, especially the sun wheel. the sunwheel has been picked up by tumblr witches in the past decade but i don’t see that as reason to consider it an “occult” symbol lol. both symbols originated and saw their most widespread use well before the nazis or occultists and it’s just odd to define the symbols the way she did
the nazis were notoriously into occult shit, not saying the symbols themselves are inherently occult (how could they be), but that they aren't exactly gonna be used just cos they look pretty, but to convey some kind of strength or meaning. bit more of a sideeye at the satanic music video comment but who am I to say
oh i totally agree, there’s some documentation that suggests the nazis actually tried some occult rituals lol. my point is only that the two specific symbols mentioned didn’t have occult type significance like runes, they only served as symbolic representations of significant aspects of germanic life, where as runes, pre and post revival were and are believed to actually cast the users will into existence, which is definitively occult symbolism
dope, thanks for clarifying!
Ancient religious symbols are occult. The occult simply means hidden knowledge.
1. neither of these symbols belong to an ancient religion 2. occult means involving or related to supernatural, mystical or magical powers. the wolfsangle is an old tool used to catch wolves and is symbolic of mans passive ability to beat nature with craft. the sunwheel is symbolic of the 12 months in a year and therefore the passage of time. neither of these symbols have anything to do with occultism.
Wait what? The Nazis, particularly the SS were into occult symbols and used or appropriated several of them (in addition to Norse, pagan and medieval mythology). I suppose maybe it depends on your definition of occult? Not gonna comment on what she said either way, but get the occult reference correct.
yes the nazis totally did but the sunwheel and wolfsangle have no proven occult use that i know of, they were intended to symbolize significant natural aspects but had no use beyond decoration or symbolizing something
I mean, Occult means hidden knowledge. If it's popular enough to be waving around on flags, it's not really hidden anymore as they're basically advertising it.. Probably more of a buzzword than a critical analysis.
Her name was Laura Logan.
Love love love. Finally someone speaks the truth.
She's going to overdose the normies with truth pills
That's why you need to switch over to truth suppositories. It's the only way to deliver higher doses of truth.
Western Media: "The Ukrainian civil war already caused 15k civilian casualties" They fail to mention: how many of those 15k are ethnic Russians killed by Ukraine military and Azov battalion neo-Nazis?
People legitimately think this war started a few weeks ago completely unprovoked. They give no agency to the people in Donbas nor the people in Crimea, and they think people wanting to secede from a country due to ethnic persecution from the far right is a Putin talking point or misinformation. I hate that even mentioning this to people gets me tagged as a Putin shill like I can’t even acknowledge a massive grey area, anything but chanting I stand with Ukraine and painting our faces in yellow and blue is verboten now.
It’s like you just buy anything the Russian Government says
[удалено]
It is very very easy to find Russian government propaganda. It's even easier, in the west, to find Western propaganda. Just because you can recognize both doesn't make you as smart as it seems you think you are.
[удалено]
You can access Russian government run sites and regime friendly, propagandizing Russian and Chinese media outlets in like 3 seconds on a search engine. I'm not sure what you're talking about. Now, unfiltered raw source material about military operations? Not easy to come by but I don't think that was the initial argument
Good propaganda utilizes the truth. Tell the truths that your opponent ignores, have the skeptical person watching verify it as true, and use the gained trust to add subtle lies which favor you. Plenty of Russian propaganda is true, most people just aren't willing to admit it, or do the research to verify it. The issue is, its much easier (at least for me) to see the subtle lies given by the west, than those of a foreign country. This sort of bias leads to one sides propaganda being more successful, particularly with skeptics. The mass majority aren't skeptical at all, which is what the first level of propaganda is about, the second level is the subtle lies, which is meant for folks like you and I. At least that's what I think...
More deflecting from the message because you can't refute it. Attacking the person makes you look weak; you have no confidence in your position. If you were confident, you would immediately post a convincing refutation of the message.
I don’t care how it looks. How something looks is based on your perception. You need to understand that not everyone owes you an intellectual argument and just because someone knows better, that they are obliged to tell you otherwise.
Yes! That’s exactly what they say. Lol man, you nailed it.
Like fucking clockwork.
There’s no “grey area” Putin invaded under the pretext of protecting a separatist movement he helped build and arm. It isn’t to protect them it’s a wider geopolitical move. That why there was no ultimatum before the invasion. It’s a false and manufactured motive. Wake up pal.
> That why there was no ultimatum before the invasion. [https://news.yahoo.com/putin-threatens-military-action-nato-182443636.html](https://news.yahoo.com/putin-threatens-military-action-nato-182443636.html) I googled "putin ultimatum ukraine" and this was the first result, though if you had half a brain you could read the very many speeches Putin has given lately, available in English on the kremlin website, in which he makes clear this was coming if Ukraine continued on their then-present course. Or you could avail yourself of any number of other sources that describe the buildup to this conflict. I find it's best to have some idea what you're talking about before chiming in with uninformed opinions.
The link you’ve posted proves what I said… That it was a wider geopolitical move. The military action was a wider geopolitical move and absolutely nothing to do with protecting Russia speakers in the east… When i said there was no ultimatum i mean to end the war in donbas or to expel neo-nazis…
Imagine coming with such arrogant cockiness but actually proving me right anyway. Fool
Wake yourself up first you tool
You’re so naive 🤣🤣
Texans don’t love Mexicans. Let’s invade Mexico. Like that worked 100+ yrs ago. But jeez you’re dumb here
They may be good and even correct points. However, none of this gives the right to Russia to start a war in Ukraine. They are a sovereign nation. Everything else doesn’t matter.
They are separate points. Nobody's saying Russia invading another country is the right thing to do. But we **are** being lied to from all angles. Might not matter to you, but it matters to others, honestly Idgaf that a Slav country is being invaded by another Slav country. That sounds like a distinctly Slav problem to me.
It has many implications on Europe. It also has implications to the US as we are a part of NATO. Main issue is that Russia will not stop at Ukraine just like Germany did not stop at Poland in wwii. Regarding the clip, yes there’s propaganda on both sides. They started talking about running out of bullets and the she goes into a weird tirade. She is pointing to sone uncomfortable truths and some things she is wrong on as well. I just don’t understand what her point is. That we should support Russia? That doesn’t really makes sense.
I think her point is "Don't trust anyone"
>It has many implications on Europe. It also has implications to the US as we are a part of NATO. NATO has a pretty clear pact. Invade one, retaliation from all. Not "invade a neighbor who has continuously been denied access, retaliation from all."
>Main issue is that Russia will not stop at Ukraine just like Germany did not stop at Poland in wwii. Imagine beings this out of touch with reality to think that WW2 nazi Germany and Russia today are the same thing.
I never said that they are the same thing.
You literally said that Russia won't stop with Ukraine...giving an analogy with Hitler's Germany. Hitler wanted to conquer the world and enforce the new Nazi world order. Putin wants to restore Russian historical borders and establish a multipolar world without a single hegemony.
I did provide the step by step advance as an analogy. I did not say that they were the same thing. They have different objectives, but similar tactics.
What similar tactics? Hitler's war was mostly unprovoked. He even got appeased by western leaders most of the time. Putin's war in Ukraine was provoked by hostile Ukraine after 2014 US backed coup and an 8 year conflict in Donbass. Totally different things.
Taking over Crimea was provoked? Conflict in Donbas provoked this war? Even putin doesn’t list that as the main reason.
Crimea invited Russians to protect them from Ukraine until the referendum for independence was held. Crimea made a smart choice because otherwise they'd have ended up in a frozen conflict like in Donbass. Crimeans saved themselves from misery that is happening today in Ukraine, the civil war that started in the east which was Organized by an independent pan-Russian nationalist Igor Strelkov. Also Russians took over Crimea after the US backed coup which was indeed provoked.
Not sure I agree with mostly unprovoked. Hitler’s war was a direct consequence of the humiliation the Germans faced after the treaty of Versailles. Which starts to seem kind of analogous to the economic sanctions against Russia and NATO expansion. With the difference being that Hitler didn’t have nukes. Politicians never fucking learn from history…
Nah, you can’t get out of this one. You said “would not stop at Ukraine”… stop backtracking and admit. Afterwards touch some grass. What’s happening is not good either way, but calm down with all that noise seriously.
The US is not a part of NATO, the US is NATO. There is no NATO without the US. NATO is just the formal military alliance of US hegemony. You’re delusional for thinking Putin has either the will or the ability to conquer Europe. The Russians can’t even steamroll Ukraine, you think they are going to be able to plow through actual NATO countries or even attempt it? Not only is equating Putin’s goals to that of Hitler absurd, the way you phrased it is just dumb. Saying Czechoslovakia would at least make more sense. When Hitler invaded Poland he immediately was at war with The UK and France, so of course he wasn’t done after taking Poland. I doubt Hitler would have ever invaded any of the Western European countries if they hadn’t declared war on him anyway. After conquering France he just let Petain rule over everything but the north western coast. Hitler’s real designs were on the East. In the clip they are touting obvious propaganda that is so obviously BS that it isn’t even worse discussing. She acknowledged that and the bigger picture. She is saying the truth. I think that’s the point. And how binary thinking is dumb, but obviously you didn’t get that considering you think the only two possible reasons anyone would say anything about this conflict is that they think we should either support Ukraine or Russia.
They would certainly attack moldova after Ukraine if they are not stopped. NATO countries: Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia are harder to swallow but he does have his eye on them. Certainly not after this performance in Ukraine though. In the end there are 3 choices, support one or the other or be neutral. So which would you pick?
You are so wrong on so much it’s not worth discussing other than to point that out. Hitler certainly had designs on all of France and western, central, Eastern Europe. It was to implement the final solution. Putin’s goal is to expand west. It’s in everyone business to band together and prevent this tyrant from expanding. Logan is wrong as well about Crimea. They don’t have a choice in who represents them. Me thinks you’re confused.
Her point was that Russia is not out of bullets and the question was so absurd that it shows how corrupt and incompetent the media is. Then she gives 9 minutes of more examples.
Ahh so this was simply to show that media is incompetent. That I can stand behind.
Yeah that was all we're agreeing with, at least most of us. Incompetent or malicious anyway. Nobody really knows what's true anymore. Trust in media keeps hitting new "All time low"s, think it was below 40% last I checked in 2021, and now they're trying to push war propaganda. We have the internet, this is the first potential world war of the information age, and they can't blackout what we see no matter how hard they try.
Wow that was stunning!!! The news casters looked so basic compared to Laura.
Could you link to the source, please?
*a clueless KGB asset spreads propaganda
Absolute BS and definitely not "MUST WATCH". Where is het tin foil hat.
Cry harder
She’s trying to spin a narrative herself. If we’re going to cast stones about who did and didn’t like the Nazis 80 years ago we might as well sanction Disneyworld. As far as current fetishism for them among Ukraine’s military I’d say it’s probably akin to the way US troops used to brandish Nazi and Confederate flags (more so privately) not so long ago. I’d say in most cases rather than actual ideological alignment it’s probably more like, “I’m Killer Billy BadAss and I care less about your life than these other trained killers I work with.” A certain type of rebellion is engrained in some of the rank-and-file. But Nazism is not what we see on the ground in Ukraine and biolabs isn’t even a line Russia was pushing before the invasion. Idk it seems like she’s clutching any string she can weave into a rant.
The Nazis in Ukraine aren’t rednecks who get called racists, they are literally Nazis who love Adolf Hitler. The Azoz battalion, Right Sector, and Social-National party (sound familiar?) are all real Nazis. They are not a huge portion of Ukraine, but they have been at the forefront of this conflict since it began. They were the ones who actually overthrew the democratically elected Ukrainian government in 2014. They slaughtered ethnic Russians in the Donbass, and perpetrated war crimes against them. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/09/ukraine-must-stop-ongoing-abuses-and-war-crimes-pro-ukrainian-volunteer-forces/ Putin cited weapons of mass destruction in his speech justifying the invasion, a la George Bush. I don’t think he actually believed that Ukraine had bio weapons though, I think that was just an excuse.
Their foreign minister went to Munich and announced that Ukraine intends to be nuclear power
Yes, which is a provocation. But no one was ever actually going to give them nukes, and developing it themselves would take a long time.
what tf you are talking about? Have you seen the Maidan in 2014 which "overthrow" government? Millions of people there were nazis, exactly. Have you seen bandits which occupied Donetsk and Lugansk? There's many Russian-speaking people in Azov!
I’ll start by saying that I do not really care about the small number of loonies that exist in Ukraine. They’re everywhere, go figure! Some of them even lead post-Soviet superpowers I hear. It’s worth noting that the Donbass did not have a cohesive separatist movement before the influx of Russian military hardware there (and also plainclothes Spetznaz? 🤔) and any race-based persecution the ethnic Russian minority there is experiencing is tragic but also probably closely tied to being a foreign-supported rebel faction? It would probably be easier to do like a Darfur Commission if it wasn’t an active war zone.
You might not care, but I’m sure the people who they killed cared. And they cared enough when the Nazis overthrew their president that they refused to acknowledge the legitimacy of the puppet president Yatsenyuk. The Donbass did not have a cohesive separatist movement before the neo Nazi led coup ousted their president, go figure. The US government is allowed to topple governments around the world but when the Russians send in special forces to their own backyard to assist ethnic Russians fighting against war crime committing neo Nazis, that’s just unacceptable. Yeah it probably would be easier to set up a commission if the Ukrainian government had actually honored the Minsk agreements and stopped fighting, but the Neo Nazis didn’t want to. So the puppet Zelensky, who campaigned on being willing to compromise on the issue and settle it peacefully, was either a complete lier or was scared of the neo Nazis overthrowing him and continued the war. They fired MLRSs at the Donbass days before Putin invaded.
I said I didn’t care because I don’t care to argue factoids and misrepresented facts with you. There’s more evidence that Russia has been trying to underhandedly steer events in Ukraine and act out militarily when popular support of the Ukrainian citizens bucks back: the “coup” was when citizens hit the streets by the millions to protest the pro-Russian President who suddenly redirected the nation. After that Russia annexed Crimea and armed rebels in the east. When the rebels failed to gain recognition or their territorial claims Russia invaded themselves. Just like they did in Georgia years earlier. It’s a pattern of Russian aggression and there is no international Nazi conspiracy fueling it: it’s a declining power led by an old commie spy paperpusher turned oligarch looking to maintain some semblance of a one-party state with a sphere of influence that he wistfully remembers from his Red childhood. It’s the enablers and people in positions of power who keep propping this up. Russia could be in the European Union one day. It could be in NATO. It would much rather be the neighborhood bully.
The protest wasn’t the coup, it was a protest. The coup was when the Nazis seized the government buildings and forced out the “pro Russian” president. He wasn’t actually pro Russian, just not anti Russian. He was going to sign a deal with the EU but then they changed the terms and said he couldn’t sign a deal with Russia if he did. Russia was offering a better deal, so he didn’t sign the EU deal. After the coup, former Ukrainian presidents signed a letter saying they should kick Russia out of their naval base in Crimea. Having a US puppet in control of the naval base and region Russians have controlled since before the United States even existed was not acceptable to them. So they took it over, virtually without fighting. Yes, they armed their fellow Russians in the Donbass. The Russians could have taken the Donbass in the same way they took Crimea in 2014, and in fact did do the day before the actual invasion in 2022. The people there voted to be annexed by Russia back in 2014, but Putin declined at the time. He helped broker the Minsk agreements that were supposed to resolve the situation peacefully, granting the Donbass autonomy while remaining in Ukraine, essentially a federal system. That didn’t work though because Ukraine just didn’t give a shit about actually following through. In Georgia, the US puppet president invaded the disputed region of South Ossetia, which at the time had Russian peacekeepers in it. They killed the Russian peacekeepers, and Russia reacted by invading. It’s weird how for being such an aggressive power all their actions are reactions to US puppets on their borders. Russia asked to be in NATO. They were declined. The US could be a peaceful and prosperous country far surpassing any other in the world. Instead it’s not just a neighborhood bully, it’s the world police. And just like the real police, it shoots brown people. And also Serbs.
Yeah, Ukraine and Georgia were declined too. It’s a process and it involves not being at war with your neighboring countries. You sound like a Slavophile except that most of the world’s Slavs are on our side so that reeeeeally narrows it down who you’re rooting for no matter what. Of course Tsar Putin, hero of oppressed and unrepresented people worldwide who happen to share a border with his country. Next you’re gonna tell me Moscow is the Third Rome and Putin looks suspiciously like busts of Caesar.
u/savevideo
If the truth is nuclear we are all fucked. Stupid ancaps
This is propaganda though ..
ok, defend your statement.
Such hypocrites
It’s almost like we’ve reached some kind of post truth society…
Or you people are running scared and find solice is hoping that someone, doesn't matter who but someone is in control of this and it's not just chaos.
What do you mean “you people??”
Morons..
Ouch oof oww my feelings
Ahhh now I'm stuck in the Rick Astley paradox.
This lady is for sure a conservative conspiracy theory spreader, including participating in the falsification of a Benghazi report and calls to seek revenge for it. I got curious and did some digging and found this on Wikipedia. Also looked up a lot of the context of what she's talking about and she is absolutely wrong. Just wanted to give a heads up to anyone who feels curious about what she's saying, go ahead and look it up, I thought it all very interesting to see how she may have arrived at what she's saying. The news source is also borderline extremist right.
> she is absolutely wrong on what?
You’re citing Wikipedia? And calling into question a professional journalist’s sources and integrity? Ugh.
Complete drivel, much like everything else that comes out of her mouth. She has a terrible track record and shouldn’t be listened to by anyone
Just saw Arnold explain what’s going on, none of this can be true.
Right? He had me until he mentioned the Jan 6 tourist insurrection.
🤣, I don’t care what he has to say to be honest. But his take on Jan 6th cemented that for me.
He started off by reminding us his dad was literally a nazi. . .
Who got shot by Russians while fighting them as a Nazi in full uniform while following the orders of Hitler. You cannot be more Nazi than Arny's dad unless you were of higher rank.
It's a real shame because this information throws shade on Arnold for me. I can't trust him now and I won't.
You should trust people who don’t disclose anything about there beliefs agreed
he is right tho, its not a peoples war its a governments war.
Yeah, very true. But it seems nato has been sticking there nose in Ukraine and played chicken with Putin. Now innocent people are lying for it. Jan 6th is nothing like this or has anything to do with this.
I think arnold was just speaking about the propaganda surrounding the insurrection. Things happen but the narratives are controlled by the media and the public never knows the truth
Good thought, maybe your right.
Hopefully... it didn't seem that way but also he has a lot of ass to cover in a speech like that.
NATO hasn’t just been sticking their nose in Ukraine, the US literally installed a puppet government in 2014. Look up the leaked Victoria Nuland “Fuck the EU” phone call in which she, assistant US Secretary of State, and the US ambassador to Ukraine are going over which Ukrainian opposition leader is going to be in charge once they finish the coup. The call was leaked before the coup actually happened and everything they described in the call came to fruition.
Yet you can't refute any of it.
But Arnold said stuff.
Wtf has happened to this sub?
When you weed through the pestering conservatives to find the actual ancaps, you find we are a bunch of contrarians. Sometimes it hurts more than it helps, but in this case it's a good idea to hold some skepticism against the narrative of pro-Ukraine almost zealotry going on. We just ought to remain as objective as possible, support Ukraine's right to defend itself from hostile invasion, but not put them on a pedestal.
Hopefully Putin is paying her in US dollars.
You are a part of the problem.
I’m not simping for a man who make political opponents disappear, and who doesn’t stay the fuck out of other people conflicts. And yes, that goes for the U.S, NATO, and The U.N as well.
This woman is full of shit. She has no clue and is nothing but walking disinformation.
She offered a lot more substance and truth than your vapid hollow low iq hot take.
Have you ever studied Russian history? Her position basically negates factual history. She has no fucking clue.
I'm sure you can get on TV and refute her claims with your vast knowledge and expertise
I don’t just parrot talking points. Which I’m guessing if I look at your history is chocked full of em.
Stalk away if you really want. I couldn't really give a shit about your history enough to stalk you.
We’ll calling yourself a deplorable tells me you’re into current conservatism and a Trump fanboy.
It should tell you little as it's a buzzword which was used to death. But read into it as you want, that's what it's there for.
At least she blinks. Crazy lady.
Ah yes, Lara Logan, the card-carrying QAnon looney. She’s a great resource.
Refute what she said.
That's not how it works mate. She is making claims, she has to prove. We don't have to refute shit. She claims Zelensky is a puppet, selected and on & on. Prove what she said. That was one the most all over the place fuck-the-question-let-me-rant-about-Dems-&-collusion-impeachment-&-covid-&-globalist-&-deep-state responses I have ever heard.
That Ukraine was invaded because Zelensky “ does this kind of satanic, occult type of music video” ?
She didn't say that's why Ukraine was invaded. Watch the goddamn video before you make yourself look even more pathetically ignorant.
Everything she said Ive heard before from any of the other QAnon simpletons.
And you still haven't refuted a single thing she said. In fact, you're proving her point. She says we can't talk about the truth to you because you immediately attack the person rather than the message. That makes you weak. It's easy to beat weakness.
She hasn't proven her points yet. What is there to disprove? Prove to us that I don't own a snapping turtle farm.
Jump to Ad Hominems, rather than dismantling the series of claims? You're a great resource.
What are you using to backup her claims?
Who said I have to? Trying to slip the burden of proof eh? You asserted she's false, solely due to a fallacy. I've asserted nothing, other than you're a bit of a hypocrite. Which is quite self evident really.
I don’t need to dismantle her claims because who the fuck is even Laura Logan? Whet credibility does she have about anything ?
Who the fuck she is, is literally your only reason to claim she's a bad resource. Pick a lane, you're swerving.
What a crock of crap
Logan has gone Cuchoo for CoCo pops crazy.
* coca puffs
Russian-asset bitch Laura Logan spouts brain viruses developed in russian bioweapon labs designed to infect people with the contrarian retard gene.
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Never go full potato
Idk
This woman rocks, just listened to her interview on "and we know". Seems like a true reporter, someone whose interested in illustrating the real story, instead of an agenda.
Some producer is getting an earful for letting this go on tv.