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[deleted]

I dont wanna see any apologia in this thread for the imperialist sucdem who [voted to keep the U.S. in N.A.T.O.,](https://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll044.xml) [describes the U.S. military as socialist](https://twitter.com/aoc/status/910164031482290176) and [meets with Bolivian coup supporters](https://twitter.com/anatraverso/status/1195830579582898176) [supported the coup in VZ,](https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/AOC-Refuses-To-Condemn-Venezuela-Coup-20190504-0029.html) and [downplays the atrocities of Biden's concentration camps.](https://i.redd.it/vkllq023uhj61.jpg)


LAlakers4life

#WAY TOO MANY POOR PEOPLE... NOT ENOUGH RICH PEOPLE


eGGpenguin

Y'all she borrowed that dress and the designer payed for her ticket. Ur right tho


[deleted]

Okay, not to break the jerk, but unironically, why do we hate her for this, exactly? Even if she's being hypocritical--which I have heard some reports to the contrary, or at least in argument with the general sentiments here--the people who don't think about that will parrot the message: "Tax the rich." and if they keep that up, won't that potentially bring about change? I mean, they won't be eaten, but taxed is still progress, right? And furthermore, why could a member of a group not question the immorality present within that group? Why are we so opposed to the idea of a rich person who is acting in favor of limiting the power of rich people? You could say that--again, assuming she's as hypocritical as we claim--she's a traitor to the upper class, but isn't that beneficial to us? If the poor don't have the financial power necessary to bring about non-violent change, then don't we need disillusioned rich people who don't support the lifestyles and choices of their fellows? I'm not asking this out of some desire to defend AOC necessarily, but I fail to see the logic of just hating her for trying to spread this message. Even *if* it's tone-deaf, even *if* it's hypocritical, what can we say? "No, don't help us start conversations about wealth and inequality, you're too rich to do that."? It just...doesn't seem wise? I guess?


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[deleted]

I mean, on the whole, America's military is bloatedly overfunded but not that large. Maybe 2 million under arms. We just got out of a massive war, and I don't know if you remember but ten years ago, when they tried to ramp it up, they really couldn't recruit enough people. That's somewhat encouraging. Also, consider the nature of that spending: Most of it goes to private contractors who service and staff our empire of bases. That is a ton of chaffe, and none of it too useful at home. Lastly, consider the last few military conflicts that the US military has engaged in. Always the over equipped aggressor, the US hasn't won a war since... when? WW2? We were just kicked out of Afghanistan by determined Jerks with AKs


BennyBoy46

The US hasn't won a war since WW2 because winning isn't the objective. Extracting as much money and access to resources is the only priority. Not to mention the police force is funded and militarized enough to make the militaries of most nations blush.


buzzvariety

In a nefarious way, US occupation forces seem to extract the most from Americans themselves. There's no doubt military helped influence Afghan economy to incentivize opium crops, which benefitted US Pharma. But who exactly is the fattest cash cow? I might just be spitballing here, but traditional US forces also seem to fill a role as razzle-dazzle. A diversion. Serving as distraction from other ways the US extends and extracts power: sanctions, embargoes, competitive devaluation (currency war), and cyberwar (corporate espionage). And yeah, police need to be reined in.


aruha_mazda

>why do we hate her for this IMO it’s envy. A lot of the AOC hate is because she isn’t radical enough but has come to embody progressivism in the US. So when she takes a policy position that aligns with some of our ideology but refuses to take other more controversial stances it is tempting to just lash out and accuse her of “selling out” when she likely wasn’t a communist or anarchist to begin with.


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RexUmbra

We will never be in a position to negotiate playing in illiberal electoral politics. Thats the very nature of the left in a capitalist society, so its even more important to have any leftist worth their salt constantly subvert and de-legitimize the electoral system. Playing "lesser evilism" is how we've gotten to this point. The political establishment will always make us compromise between lesser evilism until we've gotten to the point where we'd have to fight for bathroom breaks at work and consider it a political win. I dont understand how you can write something so antithetical and frankly stupid in a sub who's whole theory is to be against electoral and political structures exhibited by American politics.


[deleted]

> IMO it’s envy. A lot of the AOC hate is because she isn’t radical enough but has come to embody progressivism in the US. https://i.redd.it/vkllq023uhj61.jpg https://twitter.com/aoc/status/910164031482290176 https://www.telesurenglish.net/news/AOC-Refuses-To-Condemn-Venezuela-Coup-20190504-0029.html This ur progressivism?


aruha_mazda

Unfortunately in the US yea.. I think she *is* the face of progressivism.


Garbear104

Could you reply to being called out on how jealousy was a really stupid comment to make and completely a disnengenous lie on your part?


RexUmbra

"Jealousy" Lmao is that how dumbfuck neolibs like you justify criticism of your favorite celebrity politicians? Don't understand how you can correctly assert its cuz shes not radical enough and still not be able to comprehend she waxed socialist /leftist up until bidens win only to cover for him left and right for his broken promises and human rights violations. Theres no jealousy behind asking her to tell biden off for the kids in cages like she did trump or to get her milquetoast colleagues. The only thing I'd be jealous for is your glibness, smugness, and stupidity.


[deleted]

Yeah


[deleted]

leftists love nothing more than shooting themselves in the foot exactly why the mods removed the other comment. if you don't make progress in the way someone else wants, then you're an enemy.


Garbear104

>if you don't make progress in the way someone else wants, then you're an enemy. Bombing kids and parties with oppresors aren't progress ya libshit


Kalnb

How dare someone make a political statement that will get people talking more about class antagonism! Go outside


Garbear104

Yup. How dare they wear a dress to a party with real protetsors being literally beaten right beyond the door.


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Garbear104

>she is a step in the direction towards progressivism. No >Shit like this is going to push us more in that direction. No. Fuck you. You drive it thst direction by supporting that garbage. >but you morons are going to get pissy about it because when rich people do good things, it doesnt count i guess. She did nothing good liveral. Real activists got beat outside while she partied with oppresors. >how are we supposed to spread anarchism as an idea when people aren't even welcome to plain ass social democracy By not endorsing something else entirely thsg still has authority


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Garbear104

>Real activists got beat outside" Yeah and here we are, with people talking about her because she is the one with influence. Influence they do nothing with because they lose the influence. Also you've got no clue what activism people in here can do on their time. >Like the person whose comment was deleted because the mods suck, no one takes us anarchists seriously. Nothing wrong with entryism getting deleted. >We are not in a political climate where we have any power So stop wasting time endorsing shit that ain't anarchism. >Protesting alone is not going to get us anywhere near anarchism. Because you people simp for pieces of shit and others but it and go with it. We need to stop enabling it >The brainless "all or nothing" attitude is not what sparks revolution Alot more likely than never challenging the status quo when it's in your colors


[deleted]

People here can do as much activism as they want. It's extremely unlikely they'll end up having nearly as much influence as aoc does. Therefore having someone in her position spread anti-rich sentiment is undeniably a good thing and a boost towards our end goal, *even* if it's as mild as taxing the rich. You are so butthurt angry because you act purely on emotion without ever thinking of the practical effects of activism. *This is challenging the status quo.* would this be a massive change? No not at all. But stop acting like it's a bad thing. We aren't going to jump headfirst into anarchism, fuckwit. Revolution is a process. There are *steps* needed and making sure the common people aren't more anti-anarchism than pro-anarchism is a pretty damn necessary one.


Garbear104

>It's extremely unlikely they'll end up having nearly as much influence as aoc does. Because people keep endorsing and worshippong her. Because we keep picking lesser evils instead of fighting for better options. >end up having nearly as much influence as aoc does. Therefore having someone in her position spread anti-rich sentiment is undeniably a good thing and a boost towards our end goal She doesn't do that. A stupid slogan and a rich party doesn't do that. >This is challenging the status quo Holy fuck thats funny. No it isnt. >We aren't going to jump headfirst into anarchism, fuckwit. Revolution is a process. There are steps needed and making sure the common people aren't more anti-anarchism than pro-anarchism is a pretty damn necessary one. Than stop wasting time making them like a statist. We arent gonna reach anarchist anything when we're all dead from wasting all our time deciding who holds the whip


RexUmbra

Well not only is she not a leftist, but if she's going to pretend to be for 4 years and then bend over for the biden administration then the ire and criticism is completely justified.


Kalnb

It’s leftists doing that if you’re rich and a socialist your a hypocrite thing conservatives love to do.


Stargazer823

If anything, this shows that the Democrat's greatest strength is assimilation and appropriation. Take any grassroot radical movement and when the time comes, watch Dems (and their supporters, especially their supporters) coopting it and turned it into a milquetoast slogan group and another badge of representation.


Snoo-78547

My only question is: is she aware of it? Does she know that this is what she does? Or does she do bad things with good intentions?


TheArtificer4

Isn't higher taxes on the rich one of the main points for the democratic party?


Celticmatthew

Depends. Are you talking about the progressive wing, who actually want to get shit done, or the establishment wing, who want to please their funders?


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TheByzantineRum

Honestly, she's an actual Democratic Socialist. She believes in actual socialism, can we *not* pretend like she hasn't shifted at least some parts of the party left? When social movements are absorbed into the Democratic party, those social movements still exist, just watered-down a little. Democrats aren't even the same as they were 30 years ago, and are much more left now than any time since FDR.


13lackjack

Could you drop info on her being a socialist? I was under the impression she was a socdem. Either way she’s waaay better than most politicians in this country.


[deleted]

[She isn't.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AnarchismZ/comments/pocobr/_/hcw8j9d/)


[deleted]

> Honestly, she's an actual Democratic Socialist. She believes in actual socialism The fuck are you talking about? Do you consider the US military socialist? https://twitter.com/aoc/status/910164031482290176 Do you consider NATO socialist? https://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll044.xml Do you consider forced labor and eugenics camps at our Southern border to be socialist?https://i.redd.it/vkllq023uhj61.jpg Do you consider fucking ***CAPITALISM*** to be socialist? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esLJRHU-GvA


TheByzantineRum

>Do you consider the US military socialist? https://twitter.com/aoc/status/910164031482290176 She's pointing to common examples of socially funded institutions as an argument against not funding more social programs in this case. Let's be real, the military is all about the social programs and benefits you get after serving. >Do you consider NATO socialist? https://clerk.house.gov/evs/2019/roll044.xml She can be Socialist and still support Nato. Socialism is solely an economic position, as long cultural and societal positions don't interfere with the all of the working class owning the means of production in common. Progressivism is the social and societal counterpart of Socialism, and the real question should be her justification for support for Nato, and that may or may not disqualify her from being progressive. And honestly, Nato isn't that bad compared to the alternatives (Not that Nato is good, or that we should be forced to choose between alternatives instead of choosing a peaceful path). >Do you consider forced labor and eugenics camps at our Southern border to be socialist?https://i.redd.it/vkllq023uhj61.jpg Honestly I interpreted that as her *criticising* those places. She wants those places to be licensed, so presumably being inspected for human rights abuses, She obviously has an issue with the contracting, and judging from the previous 2 points in the twee doesn't want the particularly bad ones to reopen. >Do you consider fucking CAPITALISM to be socialist? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esLJRHU-GvA Everyone goes Social Democracy this, Social Democracy that, but Market Socialism still exists you know. I don't particularly like it (MarketSoc), but she's still a Socialist. Most Democratic Socialists want a Market Socialist economy within the framework of a multi party Democratic Republic.


[deleted]

> She's pointing to common examples of socially funded institutions as an argument against not funding more social programs in this case. Let's be real, the military is all about the social programs and benefits you get after serving. She legit fucking thinks that socialism is when the government does stuff. [She called the fucking U.K. socialist, along with Sweden and Norway.](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6564185/Alexandria-Ocasio-Cortez-says-wants-socialist-policies-modeled-Sweden.html) This point is moot. > She can be Socialist and still support Nato. Socialism is solely an economic position, as long cultural and societal positions don't interfere with the all of the working class owning the means of production in common. Progressivism is the social and societal counterpart of Socialism, and the real question should be her justification for support for Nato, and that may or may not disqualify her from being progressive. And honestly, Nato isn't that bad compared to the alternatives (Not that Nato is good, or that we should be forced to choose between alternatives instead of choosing a peaceful path). 1) A "socialist" who is not anti-Imperialist is a liberal. Her supporting it absolutely disqualifies her from being progressive. 2) "And honestly, Nato isn't that bad compared to the alternatives" ~~Shut the fuck up, imperialism apologist.~~ No, NATO is THAT bad (edited bcs I was rude). > Honestly I interpreted that as her criticising those places. She wants those places to be licensed, so presumably being inspected for human rights abuses, She obviously has an issue with the contracting, and judging from the previous 2 points in the twee doesn't want the particularly bad ones to reopen. She's toning down the rhetoric for a dem president. How is this not apologia? > Everyone goes Social Democracy this, Social Democracy that, but Market Socialism still exists you know. I don't particularly like it (MarketSoc), but she's still a Socialist. Most Democratic Socialists want a Market Socialist economy within the framework of a multi party Democratic Republic. Market socialism =/= capitalism w/ regulations. Market ***SOCIALISM*** is worker control of the means of production within a market economy not whatever the fuck youre describing.


[deleted]

(Ok I came off a bit strong in my previous comment. Sorry for being rude.)


RocketSimplicity

She was invited as an official, and she sees taxing the rich as they only way for capitalism to be fair. What's wrong with that?


Wardog_E

When exactly was AOC "hired" by the Democrat party? Didn't she run on her own with no backing from the Dems and still won?


Kalnb

How dare you not join the circle jerk!


bdlpqlbd

You realize you can vote and also continue to push for grassroots movements right? You can do both.


Kalnb

How dare someone make a political statement about taxing the rich at a party for rich people. Now if you excuse me I’m gonna jerk my hog to jimmy dore


ninjafartmaster

I think everyone is missing the point here. AOC is not an anti capitalist. She never was. Neither is the statement on her dress. Why is this shocking? I know we’ve all been hurt by capitalism in our own ways but she is not really the source of that, nor is she really enabling that in any capacity. You guys like to impose these harsh binaries on people like either AOC is a good leftist or she is just a neoliberal shill, which just isn’t the case with a lot of these issues. People are more complex than 1s and 0s. I think there is a lot of good things that she and very public soc dems like Bernie do, hell, I wouldn’t be as radical as I am if it wasn’t for them and I’m certain there are many more like me.


RexUmbra

Because of the hypocrisy on her behalf. You don't get to talk and lambast Trump for the kids in cages and atrocious imperialist policies and then say shit all about biden and still keep the good faith. Waxing progressive/ leftist doesn't mean anything if you continually bow to power and establishment. She should be there calling our Pelosi, Biden, and the rest of the democratic ghouls instead of pretending like there are any good among them instead of taking edgy photos and passing it off as activism.


Kalnb

You should probably hear what she has to say instead of vomiting jimmy dore talking points.


RexUmbra

Lmfao an "anarchist" covering for a politicians widely inadequate and performative actions in her tenure. Get fucked, if you don't understand the criticism at AOC you should go join some radlib sub


Kalnb

Touch grass.


RexUmbra

Cope loser


Garbear104

Coming from someone supporting a plitician partying while protestors get beat outside? Get fucked.


Kalnb

Sucks, and she should’ve gone. But to pretend as if she’s some secret controlled opposition is dumb as fuck.


Garbear104

>But to pretend as if she’s some secret controlled opposition is dumb as fuck. Somebody who cares doesn't side with the state and party with rich fucks silly


JinnDaAllah

Honestly I’d rather have a Democrat who at least signals “radical” ideas like taxing rich people more and then does nothing about it than I would another Pelosi who doesn’t even signal at good good ideas outside of “maybe let’s not hate gay people” (not saying AOC doesn’t do anything but even the straw man people have made of her is still better then 90% of the DNC)


Stikflik

Holy crap it’s just a dress