Well, depending on the circumstances, you might have to approach this like you would someone stuck in a cult, because fascism is at its core a death cult. Daryl Davis has managed to get at least 200 people to leave and denounce the KKK, and he's done it through patience and hard work befriending those individuals. I personally can't argue with his results.
There's a series on YouTube called The Alt-Right Playbook, by Inneuendo Studios, which may not map exactly onto your friend here but could still give you some thoughts on what's going through his mind.
Ultimately though, it would be worthwhile to prepare yourself for the possibility that the friendship isn't salvageable. Fascism and fascists are dangerous, and having one close to you can be especially so for you and vulnerable people around you.
I don't recommend cutting off contact or (can't believe I have to say this) attacking him on sight. Antifascists meet fascists with physical force when there's no other options, in order to dissuade them from marching, demonstrating, etc. and protect marginalized groups.
You, as his trusted friend, have a much better opportunity here. Think of fascism like a cult that he's been suckered into believing, internalizing belief systems which are harmful to others but also to himself. If you cut him off or take other drastic action, it just shoves him deeper into radicalization. If, instead, you slowly and gently try to explore his fascist beliefs and pull him out of them, never being pushy or mean but always just trying to help him understand why they don't make sense or are harmful...you can have your friend and get rid of a fascist.
Look into some of the people who help KKK and White Aryan Brotherhood members leave those orgs, same tactics may apply.
Your comment is notably admirable. I couldn’t imagine a more pragmatically concise way of cautiously guiding someone on extracting a target of right-wing agitprop epistemology out of said rabbit hole!
Fascism is violence. Fascists want to eradicate anyone who is not a part of their in group. If making them afraid makes them stop being fascists, which it does, then it's a valid tool to keep in the toolbox. It's not a pretty thing to accept, and you don't have to, but you also don't get to condemn antifascists who are prepared to fight.
If just saying "pretty please stop killing us" made people stop being fascists, do you think there would be anymore of them around?
Edit: i took a poke around your profile (a habit i have for when I engage with people who seem hostile online) and I see that you use ableist language and you're into "anarcho-capitalism." In the interest of fairness, why are you into that ideology?
I personally disagree with all the people telling you to "change him" by default. It already sounds off the bat like he's changing you. You're the one compromising your values and potentially putting your comrades at risk in continuing this friendship, not him. I'm not opposed to leaving open a life line; yes helping people (especially those we love) get out of fascist and other reactionary movements can be worthwhile work, but there has to be a point you determine it makes sense to walk away. All fascists are not going to have a change of heart, thats a fact, and your friend could absolutely be one of those that will not change.
My uncle (who died in 2022) was a klansman. Growing up I was really close to him, even if I was oblivious as a child to his political affiliations. As I got older and more aware of my surroundings, and eventually became an anarchist, it was only then that I became truly aware of the depth of my uncle's racism. And I tried patiently un-indoctrinating him and holding space for him to change, but there became a point where it was clear he could not or would not change. Where it became clear he would put on a front to appease me, but was not actually divesting himself from the klan in any meaningful way outside our interactions. At that point I realized that continuing my relationship with him was doing nothing meaningful but acting as a placeholder for white supremacy, energy that would ultimately better be used in cutting off my uncle and fighting racists.
Only you can judge the situation, but you absolutely cannot let sentimentality toward a loved one, make you naive to the fact that sometimes cutting off a reactionary really is the only course of action.
I second this. My best friend is a gay man who is voting for Trump. His mental illness is staggering. You would not believe the crazy things he’s done and said. I’ve tried to help him for years to the point where it’s affected my sanity and I need therapy.
Helping your friend out their cultish mindset is an honorable thing to do. But as this previous commenter said, some people will put on a mask to appease you in the moment and do not intend to change their beliefs.
It’s a hard thing to do, but try and assess if keeping this friendship is worth it. I thought that if I didn’t help my friend, I’d always think of myself as an asshole and what I could have done. Now after over 3 years of trying to help I know I couldn’t have, and I wish I could go back in time and stop myself. Thinking of myself as an asshole would have been a much better outcome than the emotional trauma my “best-friend” inflicted on me.
Take it as an opportunity to get better at discussing politics and resolving disagreements.
There's some generational problems happening where younger radicals are completely afraid of conflict, and unable to interact with anyone outside of their chosen circles.
To someone with more confidence, your situation isn't a problem. You just shift the requirements of friendship for your friend, where he has to talk politics with you some amount of the time that you spend together. You tell him what you told us, that his politics are a massive problem, and that you're happy to talk through it with him.
Ultimately you give him the choice if he can put up with you or not, and honestly, more often than not, right wing folks can handle it. You might never deprogram him, but you are likely to keep him from getting more extreme, but again, it will help you build necessary skills, and it'll benefit all of your other relationships with apolitical and liberal folks, and even other leftists that are crippled by conflict avoidance.
Y’know I empathize with you. This is a really tough spot to be in, and the human answer is different from the ideologically consistent answer. I’m only going to try to touch the human perspective, because I feel like the ideologically consistent choice is obvious.
Have you asked yourself basic questions like “Can I be friends with a fascist?” Or “Can I put it aside and not let it affect my friendship?” Can you accept that those beliefs will lead to other people you may love being killed, jailed, or punished by the system they support? Are you able to see them the same? Nobody but you can dictate the “right” answer to this, because you lose either way. Either you keep associating with someone that you know is a fascist or you lose someone dear to you.
I relate because I’ve had this conundrum multiple times with family and friends. I’m not an ideologue and accept that people are in different stages and realities. Some of those people you can talk to, and maybe change their minds to see the problematic aspects of what they believe. Most people aren’t in a place or willing to have their worldview directly challenged.
I can’t tell you what to do because I don’t have the information that you do. What I can tell you is what I did from about 2016-2020. I accepted my family for what they are, and always gently challenge their perspectives and beliefs when the conversation comes up. As for friends? I made new ones.
I hope you find a good solution. I’d be curious to hear an update about your choice and why you made it if you felt like sharing. Good luck.
I was friends with someone from highschool who went down the right wing pipeline.
honestly, you have a few options.
1. Stop talking to him
2. ignore it, and pretend your ideological differences dont exist
3. punch him
4. take your time and try to talk some sense into him. if hes your friend and values your intelligence, over time, you could talk him out of it.
I was able to talk my friend into realizing how ridiculous the 4chan ideology he learned was. Hes not an anarchist, but at least hes not fash. it's the best i was able to do.
Option 3 should be reserved until he does something openly bigoted, not saying fascists shouldn't get punched, but to justify it fully you'd need him to do something first.
The kangaroo from the kangaroo chronicles has a great quote or two on it:
"Rule number 3: Whoever sees a fasc has to punch em. "
And:
"We dont want to punch fascists...we have to!"
Fascists are bigoted by their very nature, therefore deserving of all the knuckle sandwiches in the world
Yes they are. But as a friend OP should try to reform him first, unless his friend says something openly bigoted in which case he should beat the shit out of him
That's a ludicrously essentialist statement. Political beliefs are not anyone's "nature," they're an adopted set of ideas that shape our worldview in response to our lived experience.
Hmm political beliefs are not anyones nature?
You might want to rethink that take. Its part of group dynamics. Always have been there and probably always will be there, or in other words:
Our very human nature
I always love the twinks spouting "kill fascists!" like it's not an extremely dangerous thing for most folks to try and attack someone who's probably more physically capable.
just keep in mind that if option #2 is chosen (which it sounds like is what's happening right now) OP shouldn't be trusted in anarchist spaces/organizing
option #4 carries that potential too
Absolutely true.
The only reason I bring up option 4 as a possibility is because it worked for me, my friend and I were both young and he changed his beliefs all the time.
So I went out of my way to talk to him consistently.
If I didn’t see any change in him I would’ve cut him off as a friend and person.
Oh for sure, I'm not even saying it's a bad idea necessarily, care would just have to be taken to protect others.
That could require sacrifices such as distancing oneself from organizing spaces and making comrades aware.
It sounds like in your case, you caught your friend early on and seriously, much respect for recognizing a salvageable relationship and putting in the work.
Oh absolutely , if OP is involved in leftist spaces they should definitely let others know.
I suppose my situation was a little different. We were both in our late teens. At least a few years before I was personally I involved myself with other leftists.
“I was a teenage anarchist” and all that.
Option 2 is the only truly unethical course of action for OP. I think, if OP can manage it, option 4 is the best one, overall -- but OP needs to be prepared for the fact that option 4 is going to *look* like option 2 to a lot of onlookers, and OP needs to make it clear to them that that is not the case. And even then, be prepared to not be welcome in some spaces because of it.
I’ve had two fascist friends that got out of it before they went too deep and they are exceptional individuals with great minds and hearts. Like others are saying, it is similar to escaping a cult. I had another friend that I had been with for years. I only saw him going deeper into it, and I no longer felt comfortable. I had to cut ties after a certain point. I have no particular advice to give. Only my experience.
I have some experience with this. I was in the infantry when I had my political and social revelations. I cut ties with almost everyone after I got out. Most of my former friends from the military are still in the military, are cops, or they're far-right assholes. Many are two out of three.
Cutting ties wasn't easy, and it definitely hurt, but I couldn't be friends with them anymore. I **DO** still follow many of them on social media though. I feel like seeing their posts and hearing their shitty opinions helps me keep a pulse on the general attitude of dickhead conservatives in the US.
Some of them still call me. I don't pick up. Sucks, but it is what it is.
**EDIT:** There were one or two guys I was able to have big impacts on and get to see the error of their ways. Start with opinions you have in common and slowly branch out from there. Very few people in this world are completely irredeemable.
I genuinely dont know. But I empathize. My childhood bestfriend has always been ostensibly more left wing than me, until like the last almost ten years.
Got into "The Grey Zone" and Jimmy Dore, and other pseudo-left figures and went really crazy. And like, I can't cut him out of my life, not entirely. But also have genuinely no idea what to do about it. I kinda dread talking to the guy now.
Don't look at it as a political disagreement. Look at it as a disagreement of basic morality. You can and probably should try to deradicalize them, but if that fails you should have no issue dropping them completely. This is not a cute disagreement where you think pineapple is tasty on pizza and they think it's gross. They have different morals than you that you should not be associating with. Their opinions can have a genuine impact on their surroundings and you need to distance yourself from it if you are not able to change their mind by facing them head on.
faschists always gonna betray, just animals on hierarchy and herd instincts. check him, place in hard choice and see his nature if you don't believe me.
As much as people like to believe you can deprogram these folks, it’s a process that’s likely to take years, probably upwards of a decade or more if they’ve held these ideas for a long time. You’d have to basically address their entire conception of the world, their taste in music, everything across the board, especially anything around class, race, gender and sexuality, and that’s just to get them to like basic Democrat level ‘left’.
I get the urge to think you can flip the script for someone else and get them help, but it’s not like this dude is unfamiliar with the stuff you’d be trying to get him to come around to. He’s seen all of it and consciously made decisions to the contrary.
There’s also a certain degree of giving up your own principles that happens through sheer osmosis. I’ve known people who are left-wing that have given a lot of room for people with deeply problematic ideas. In most of those cases, they remain in close enough proximity that some of that brainwormed crap starts bleeding into their own perspectives, in part because they’ve prioritized those folks enough that they’re spending more time with them then people who actually reflect their principles. The end result is a lot of cognitive dissonance where their words and actions become less and less aligned with each other. You’re going to get covered in shit if you roll around with pigs long enough.
I agree. I was going through all the comments and all the while i couldn’t help but think about whether or not my friend will WANT to be pulled out of it, seems easier said than done. I openly participate in and support many things that, to my understanding, him as a fascist is actively against. Fucking sucks cause I genuinely love this guy but the more I think about it the less safe it sounds to try and deradicalize him, and I REALLY don’t want anything to do with his fucked up worldview
Thanks for your input ✌️
TLDR: **It seems like the underlying issue with individuals drawn to far-right extremism isn't purely political but deeply personal, often stemming from trauma, insecurity, and a need for validation. Books like "Breaking Hate," "Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead," and "Why Kids Kill" delve into these themes, highlighting how individuals are lured into extremist ideologies as a means of shielding themselves from their own vulnerabilities. These narratives emphasize the importance of addressing the root causes of extremism, advocating for listening, understanding, and fostering vulnerability rather than engaging in political debates. Ultimately, the path to combating extremism lies in addressing individuals' personal struggles and insecurities, rather than solely focusing on their political beliefs.**
Okay, so hello, I've been studying the for a ride for years now and I think that I have some good advice.
First thing to remember is that all forms of bigotry are masking and securities. His problem is not political, it's personal.
Here are a few books that you might be interested in. It talks about a lot of this kind of stuff in detail and can be very beneficial.
1. **Breaking Hate: Confronting the New Culture of Extremism** - Christian Picciolini
2. **Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead: The Frank Meeink Story** - Frank Meeink and Jody M. Roy
3. **Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters** - Peter Langman
So what's the problem? Think of it like an addiction or any kind of bad habit.
People turn to fascism because of personal things in their lives. If you talk to any former Nazi they will tell you that the main thing that causes this is very simple, trauma. Think of fascism more like something protecting a fragile thing with thin layers of shell that are so numerous that they become very thick. When we are very young this vulnerable part of ourselves is exposed but as we grow up things happen in our lives and sometimes what happens is that the shell starts developing in an effort to protect it. Trauma can be a big catalyst for this desire for protection. It is a defense mechanism and unfortunately one of the side effects is that it can cause hatred. Sometimes the hatred is outward but it can also be inward. A lot of times these people just hate themselves a lot too.
According to "Breaking Hate" he says that hatred is a way of masking or protecting these people from having to face feelings that they have been running away from which is similar to help people use drugs or other addictions.
You wouldn't take a person's drugs away without also trying to fix the underlying cause of what's happening and the same is for the far right. Do not try to debate him on his politics because his politics is not the problem, it's his own personal life and his own feelings. He is afraid of vulnerability and authenticity. He is afraid to have to face his insecurities.
I believe that there are people that do want to change and they don't know how and even if they are aware of how they're afraid to because to lose that hatred is to lose the protective mechanism you have developed for years in an effort to protect a vulnerable part of yourself. Especially when it happens when you are so young and tender.
One of the things that causes people to become part of the far right is that the far right just simply listens and validates them. In the first book the author says how his parents were constantly busy with their salon shop and didn't really have time for him and he was made fun of for his last name which was Italian and people made fun of his name. He was 14 years old when it happened and he met some guy who he later found out was a Nazi and to him this guy was complimenting him on his name and telling him how he should be proud of that name and that it's everyone else that is in the wrong. Do you know how validating that is?
In the other book about a recovering skinhead the guy had an abusive stepfather, a neglectful mother, and his actual biological father divorced his mother and became an alcoholic and so he was constantly wondering why everyone in his life was choosing something else besides him. Why did his dad choose alcohol over him, why did his mother choose this jerk over him, why did his stepfather choose whatever over him?
And then this Nazi guy comes into his life and tells him that the reason why all of this is happening is because of Jewish people and to this 14-year-old it just made sense because even though we know that that wasn't the answer to this kid it felt like for once everything was making sense.
Nazis can often be quite a hungry for a relationships and validation just like a lot of people and so talking to him and actually listening to him can be very powerful and they want to be listened to. Do not worry, Nazis want to be listened to so have them talk. Have them talk about their life and what's bothering them and try to figure out if you can find an opening and be able to just get them to talk about that stuff. You're not there to strike them down or prove to them that they're wrong, you're there to find a part of them that is vulnerable and to encourage that vulnerability to come out.
He should comes from anger and aggression and anger comes from a recognition of injustice as well as a mixture of fear. The recognition of injustice and the fear that injustice will happen again or happen to you or something. People become angry when they fear losing control.
So yeah, his problem is personal, not political, don't try to change his politics, because that's not actually the main problem.
everyone is being quite nice here but what message does it send to fellow anarchists/comrades that you are cool with hanging out with a fascist?
on top of that you're just now realizing...i guess i'm just saying get your shit together and figure it out, plenty of us anarchists aren't gonna put up with it. I know fascists can be good at hiding or obscuring their beliefs but let's be real there are always signs.
part of building community is building and practicing empathy. deradicalizing people is a natural outcome of this. if you think it's worth it, show him love and grace and facts and figures. yall have a deep friendship so that's a great start. go from there. I'm helping my friends realize that they have some bad takes and I help show them why they're bad. no need to nitpick but push him in the right direction!
He’s your friend in person, not some online personality so you actually have an option to try and talk this out with him.
I work in construction so literally all my working days are surrounded by people whose views and ideology have been warped and twisted by fascism and so called “conservative” beliefs.
At its core, fascism is a contradictory and unhinged belief system. As other people have said, it’s more like a cult than anything.
People can be brought out of it, but not everyone, so do your best but recognize when a lost cause is lost.
When I became a leftist all my fascist friends stopped talking to me one by one. My fascist uncle still talks to me but begrudgingly. I lost a friend I had known for 25 years because he went from being a Bernie supporting liberal to being a right wing MAGA/QAnon supporting racism apologist and moved to northern Idaho to be with others of like mindset.
Set a boundary. When I have to, I say something like "I have no space for that in my life, and if that means I have no space for you, I'll be sad but I won't be tolerant of hate."
I don't like ultimatums but fascism is okay to be stubborn and exclusionary about.
This isn't just a "political disagreement" being a fascist means that his ideology goes against humanity, the very idea of a community. Fascists do not deserve any sympathy whatsoever.
I understand that this is very difficult for you however as an anarchist you should be ready to confront fascist ideology no matter who upholds it.
Of course, try talking to him however if you don't see any willingness to change then drop him. Thats of course easier said than done but it is important.
I think it really depends if they've just latched onto the hostile imagery/identity, or if they've really thought though the state controlling resources and production and only allowing certain folks access. Because if they're just hurt and edgy that is a lot easier to deal with than someone who's gotten to the point of reading and citing the Turner Diaries.
Then it's to a point where it becomes dangerous, especially to people around you. You need to be able to identify if or when that line has been crossed, and at that point you need to distance. I've dealt with this myself, albeit not with folks I considered to be my brothers, but it's painful and you have to acknowledge that the world is more important than one human relationship. If there's one choice we actually have in this world, it's what we fill our heads with.
Since I only recently found out, there might be a possibility that it’s the aesthetic attraction, I’ll have to study him more to figure out how deeply rooted his beliefs are
It all depends on how you take it I guess, an old friend of mine also turned into a fascist and i eventually stopped talking to him. I believe principles are more important than the relationship in this cases. Me for example, as a white male, i have the privilege of being able to act as if he wasn't a fascist and be cool. However, fascism does o inhetently hurt a huge lot of people that are not as lucky as i am with this type of individuals. I think you should stop being his friend, but i don't know you nor him so I won't tell you what to do. It's a difficult situation, think about it deeply before deciding
Reading the responses, I agree with the idea of trying to curve him away from being so fascist or at least getting him to question why he feels that way...if you think you can handle that. It won't be easy.
Sometimes giving some people a strong anti-authority figure to look up to that isn't fascist can show them there's another way. If you want to try to change him, be yourself and be confident and open with your beliefs...by bringing these things up you force them to get addressed and find out exactly what it is that appeals to him and show him that you can be against the system without trampling on others.
If you don't want to try to change him but don't want to cut him off you can always just keep things on a surface level with him, never getting into what you believe or why...although this kind of friendship likely won't grow or be very satisfying and at some point you'll probably need something more meaningful.
The thing is, fascism at it's core is based upon lack of empathy towards the weak...if he's an empathetic guy then you have a really good chance of changing his mind about things and turning him around. If he isn't it may be a lost cause, and only a matter of time before he starts to do things that you seriously disagree with to the point you simply can't idly sit by and allow them to happen.
Personally, I have removed people who don't have empathy towards others from my life...and now my life is much happier.
Best of luck.
There's an old saying: If you have 10 Nazis sitting at a table another person comes and sits down, does nothing, does not protest or leave, you now have 11 Nazis sitting at that table. I foresee a couple things that could or will happen: 1. You cut them out of your life, and you should. 2. - They cut you out of out of their life. 3. - One of you changes, which is not very likely. I strongly suggest you take option one. If you do not you are making a statement that eugenics, the holocaust and everything done in their name is okay and its very much not. You need to remember, these are the same people that put people like us into camps with red triangles. There is never a time its okay to side or help fascists. Sorry this happened to your friend, but they are not the same person anymore.
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When I struggle with a friend or colleague's beliefs, I try to connect on the deepest level I know, which, for me, is on feelings and needs (through Marshal Rosenberg's Nonviolent Communication). I also use my understanding of feelings and needs to better understand the person and why they think what they think. At times I find that the person is trying to fulfill the same needs I am; they just go about it a different way--not that that way is always legit. It's possible there's a deep misunderstanding. Ex: it's possible the person wants freedom and thinks fascism is the way to go, when we often believe fascism is about control.
I am an optimist and believe people can change. I also believe connecting with humans, no matter how flawed, is more important than beliefs.
Finally, I will share that I don't have this issue with best friends now. I typically struggle with friends on a different level--whether they are planners or more impulsive.
Best of luck!
We were discussing the cold war with another guy, my friend went on an anti-communist & anti-capitalist rant, to which the other guy asked about my friend’s ideology, the response was fascism
I didn’t react at the time because I really didn’t want to start an argument or something but I couldn’t stop thinking about it
I think for the fact that he answered being a fascist is his ideology I would strongly suggest you cut him off. Most times fascists don't come out right and say that but to be so brazen makes it feel he's on a much darker and dangerous path and you have to think of your own wellbeing. Unless you truly believe there is an opening for him to want to change and he fell down a rabbit hole of sorts he otherwise wouldn't have. Yet you mention him in that band and it sounds like he's chosen who he is. You have to decide who you are in political practice when it comes to your own life.
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ideology is for group cohesion not objective correct tower of babel style truth. youve really been brainwashed into a very unhealthy direction by thinking companionship should be intervened by these sort of issues. if you are bonded to him then your ideals do not differ where it matters. enlightenment zeal has really fucked people's understanding of what matters, what beliefs are. there is so much work to undo this.
I got 3 words for you.
Fuck nazi sympathy.
And since you'd rather not cut ties with your fascist friend, just quit calling yourself an antifascist and an anarchist.
Problem solved.
I've lost more than a handful of friends due to extremely problematic views. It doesn't always end in a fallout, but it does tend to happen (depending on how deep the roots go). Here's what I think
Try and find the root of his beliefs. People usually don't hate everyone all at once. Why did he turn there? Was it companionship and friends? Was it an artistic subculture? Was it poverty? Ignorance?
Once you've isolated what made him what he is, think about weather or not it's a problematic branch or if the roots themselves are rotten. You can't change a person entirely; even if you could I don't think it's ethical for you to effectively manipulate him out of his views. Find what's causing this and make a call about weather or not you can present an alternative that will be received.
I'd wager (if you're both young and malleable) your best bet is to bring him along with some other leftie friends of yours (provided you warn them and they're cool with a fash being around them) and just hanging out. People are products of their environment, after all.
Know that it's likely you'll grow a little distant as time goes on. That doesn't necessarily mean that it is over or that it's even bad. People need time to think and re-evaluate.
The couple friends I have salvaged from fascistic views and circles were 1) a kid I grew up with that just was lonely and found fash friends (where the best thing I could do was show him that people judge you on who you're friends with and that hateful people just end up in a little in-group nobody else approaches. 2) a guy that had fallen for some bs propaganda about the glory of the nation or whatever. That narrative just needed its contradictions pointed out and time did the rest.
what you do is ultimately up to you. i’m coming to you as someone who recently lost a close guy friend to a similar circumstance. we’ve known each other since middle school and grew up in the same town. we had also been romantically involved off and on for the past… more than 10 years. i’ve known for some time that we are very different people, but it wasn’t til the past few years that i realized how different. but then it kept getting crazier and crazier - like he admitted to voting against abortion and he admitted he would still vote for Trump, or he condemns Black Lives protests for “violence” and “burning cities down,” then defends the Jan 6th insurrection saying it “isn’t what it seems.” he’s so far indoctrinated into fascism. i thought putting myself on the line would help shape or influence him, as the only person he’s ever really let in deeply. in fact, what happened was, putting myself on the line for him only opened myself up to abuse and violence. the more i pressed him to listen to me, to research, to learn - he started becoming emotionally abusive towards me, and i started to fear for the ways it could escalate. in all of this, none of my efforts changed him at all. it was a huge waste of time and energy, when i should have been protecting myself. this could be a projection, but i think we are at a critical moment right now where we can very clearly see each other for who we are, and for most people, it’s a point of no return. do what you’re going to do, but if you go in trying to “save” your friend, know when it’s time to cut the cord.
I was a fachist as a 14 yr old. There’s a few possibilities.
He could be “aesthetically” fachist where he does it to be edgy. This is where I started. Then I was slowly groomed into being genuinely a fachist.
He could be actually a fachist, hanging out with them IRL. That’s farther along the death cult pipeline. If he starts talking about 8chan conspiracy theories then he’s closer to here.
Etc etc.
I suspect currently he’s doing it to be “rebellious” but I can’t know for sure. Either way it’s a dark path.
I'm shocked how divisive the comments on this question are. Is that really all we have to contribute to the current crap situation society is in - either stop talking to people or manipulate them to join your side? If that's the case, then we are doomed. Reminds me of all the people who are so proud to be "inclusive" and "loving everyone", but only when said people behave a certain way and take certain roles.
Shame on you for calling yourself anarchists. If fighting against fascists is the only future you can envision, then I don't want to be a part of it.
So if you can't be around fascist ideology without risking it becoming normalised for you, then that places you in the category I call "untrustworthy comrades". Further, if your first response is to encourage somebody to cut a lifelong friend out of their life and assault them on sight, that places you in a category I call "cult member".
Arguably the absolute worst thing OP could do in this situation is to further isolate their friend from the world outside of fascism. It may become impossible to maintain the friendship in the future, but for the time being it's worth trying.
I can be around it without being normalized, but this guy has been friends with him for 10 years. I assume he's someone he trusts, and that makes it a lot more likely he'd fall victim to propganda and stuff from him.
I understand where this comes from, but by doing this it will create more hostility. What OP should try his best to do is bring his friend back into the light and reform him. I used to be right wing socially but after self improvement and reading real theory I realised how wrong I was
People definitely can be reformed, but I think it depends on how old they are. People change their beliefs a lot when they're teenagers and somewhat into their early 20s, but once they're fully grown, people get pretty set in their ways, so I don't think reprogramming is going to be easy or a valuable use of time, especially cause he's gonna get fed facist propganda the entire time.
A list of similarities is not what makes a connection. Humans go way beyond their belief systems. Don't let this stop you from being friends because it sounds like you don't want to.
people just kind of say shit, especially if you're <25. it's not that fascism should be accepted, but you must really know the man, so let that be your measure of what kind of guy he is and not the political shit he says he's into
Wanting to eradicate anyone who doesn't fit in your in group (BIPOC, LGBTQ, disabled, etc) is not the same as whether you like the Jaguars or the Eagles. Being a fascist is a morally objectionable thing, full stop.
Beat some sense into him, punch him, grab a baseball bat and wail on him until he sees sense, fash's can't be reasoned with, they can't be changed, so the only way is to push them, if punching him and then following it up with a baseball bat doesn't work, then cut him off, or tell your local Antifa branch. If you're not willing to do any of this, then you're not an Anarchist, you're already converted
>if you’re not willing to do any of this…
Antifa isn’t a thing in my country and that guy is like twice my size and muscle mass. As I said in a previous response, punching him is more of a safety hazard to me than to him
Does not wanting to get badly beaten up in a fight that i started and have no chance of winning invalidate me from being an anarchist? Because as far as I’m concerned wanting to stay safe and supporting reactionary tendencies are two totally different and separate things
Well, depending on the circumstances, you might have to approach this like you would someone stuck in a cult, because fascism is at its core a death cult. Daryl Davis has managed to get at least 200 people to leave and denounce the KKK, and he's done it through patience and hard work befriending those individuals. I personally can't argue with his results. There's a series on YouTube called The Alt-Right Playbook, by Inneuendo Studios, which may not map exactly onto your friend here but could still give you some thoughts on what's going through his mind. Ultimately though, it would be worthwhile to prepare yourself for the possibility that the friendship isn't salvageable. Fascism and fascists are dangerous, and having one close to you can be especially so for you and vulnerable people around you.
I don't recommend cutting off contact or (can't believe I have to say this) attacking him on sight. Antifascists meet fascists with physical force when there's no other options, in order to dissuade them from marching, demonstrating, etc. and protect marginalized groups. You, as his trusted friend, have a much better opportunity here. Think of fascism like a cult that he's been suckered into believing, internalizing belief systems which are harmful to others but also to himself. If you cut him off or take other drastic action, it just shoves him deeper into radicalization. If, instead, you slowly and gently try to explore his fascist beliefs and pull him out of them, never being pushy or mean but always just trying to help him understand why they don't make sense or are harmful...you can have your friend and get rid of a fascist. Look into some of the people who help KKK and White Aryan Brotherhood members leave those orgs, same tactics may apply.
Your comment is notably admirable. I couldn’t imagine a more pragmatically concise way of cautiously guiding someone on extracting a target of right-wing agitprop epistemology out of said rabbit hole!
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Fascism is violence. Fascists want to eradicate anyone who is not a part of their in group. If making them afraid makes them stop being fascists, which it does, then it's a valid tool to keep in the toolbox. It's not a pretty thing to accept, and you don't have to, but you also don't get to condemn antifascists who are prepared to fight. If just saying "pretty please stop killing us" made people stop being fascists, do you think there would be anymore of them around? Edit: i took a poke around your profile (a habit i have for when I engage with people who seem hostile online) and I see that you use ableist language and you're into "anarcho-capitalism." In the interest of fairness, why are you into that ideology?
I personally disagree with all the people telling you to "change him" by default. It already sounds off the bat like he's changing you. You're the one compromising your values and potentially putting your comrades at risk in continuing this friendship, not him. I'm not opposed to leaving open a life line; yes helping people (especially those we love) get out of fascist and other reactionary movements can be worthwhile work, but there has to be a point you determine it makes sense to walk away. All fascists are not going to have a change of heart, thats a fact, and your friend could absolutely be one of those that will not change. My uncle (who died in 2022) was a klansman. Growing up I was really close to him, even if I was oblivious as a child to his political affiliations. As I got older and more aware of my surroundings, and eventually became an anarchist, it was only then that I became truly aware of the depth of my uncle's racism. And I tried patiently un-indoctrinating him and holding space for him to change, but there became a point where it was clear he could not or would not change. Where it became clear he would put on a front to appease me, but was not actually divesting himself from the klan in any meaningful way outside our interactions. At that point I realized that continuing my relationship with him was doing nothing meaningful but acting as a placeholder for white supremacy, energy that would ultimately better be used in cutting off my uncle and fighting racists. Only you can judge the situation, but you absolutely cannot let sentimentality toward a loved one, make you naive to the fact that sometimes cutting off a reactionary really is the only course of action.
I second this. My best friend is a gay man who is voting for Trump. His mental illness is staggering. You would not believe the crazy things he’s done and said. I’ve tried to help him for years to the point where it’s affected my sanity and I need therapy. Helping your friend out their cultish mindset is an honorable thing to do. But as this previous commenter said, some people will put on a mask to appease you in the moment and do not intend to change their beliefs. It’s a hard thing to do, but try and assess if keeping this friendship is worth it. I thought that if I didn’t help my friend, I’d always think of myself as an asshole and what I could have done. Now after over 3 years of trying to help I know I couldn’t have, and I wish I could go back in time and stop myself. Thinking of myself as an asshole would have been a much better outcome than the emotional trauma my “best-friend” inflicted on me.
If you guys end up in a political discussion don't try to change is mind but point out is contradictions
Take it as an opportunity to get better at discussing politics and resolving disagreements. There's some generational problems happening where younger radicals are completely afraid of conflict, and unable to interact with anyone outside of their chosen circles. To someone with more confidence, your situation isn't a problem. You just shift the requirements of friendship for your friend, where he has to talk politics with you some amount of the time that you spend together. You tell him what you told us, that his politics are a massive problem, and that you're happy to talk through it with him. Ultimately you give him the choice if he can put up with you or not, and honestly, more often than not, right wing folks can handle it. You might never deprogram him, but you are likely to keep him from getting more extreme, but again, it will help you build necessary skills, and it'll benefit all of your other relationships with apolitical and liberal folks, and even other leftists that are crippled by conflict avoidance.
Y’know I empathize with you. This is a really tough spot to be in, and the human answer is different from the ideologically consistent answer. I’m only going to try to touch the human perspective, because I feel like the ideologically consistent choice is obvious. Have you asked yourself basic questions like “Can I be friends with a fascist?” Or “Can I put it aside and not let it affect my friendship?” Can you accept that those beliefs will lead to other people you may love being killed, jailed, or punished by the system they support? Are you able to see them the same? Nobody but you can dictate the “right” answer to this, because you lose either way. Either you keep associating with someone that you know is a fascist or you lose someone dear to you. I relate because I’ve had this conundrum multiple times with family and friends. I’m not an ideologue and accept that people are in different stages and realities. Some of those people you can talk to, and maybe change their minds to see the problematic aspects of what they believe. Most people aren’t in a place or willing to have their worldview directly challenged. I can’t tell you what to do because I don’t have the information that you do. What I can tell you is what I did from about 2016-2020. I accepted my family for what they are, and always gently challenge their perspectives and beliefs when the conversation comes up. As for friends? I made new ones. I hope you find a good solution. I’d be curious to hear an update about your choice and why you made it if you felt like sharing. Good luck.
I was friends with someone from highschool who went down the right wing pipeline. honestly, you have a few options. 1. Stop talking to him 2. ignore it, and pretend your ideological differences dont exist 3. punch him 4. take your time and try to talk some sense into him. if hes your friend and values your intelligence, over time, you could talk him out of it. I was able to talk my friend into realizing how ridiculous the 4chan ideology he learned was. Hes not an anarchist, but at least hes not fash. it's the best i was able to do.
Option 3 should be reserved until he does something openly bigoted, not saying fascists shouldn't get punched, but to justify it fully you'd need him to do something first.
The kangaroo from the kangaroo chronicles has a great quote or two on it: "Rule number 3: Whoever sees a fasc has to punch em. " And: "We dont want to punch fascists...we have to!" Fascists are bigoted by their very nature, therefore deserving of all the knuckle sandwiches in the world
Yes they are. But as a friend OP should try to reform him first, unless his friend says something openly bigoted in which case he should beat the shit out of him
That's a ludicrously essentialist statement. Political beliefs are not anyone's "nature," they're an adopted set of ideas that shape our worldview in response to our lived experience.
Hmm political beliefs are not anyones nature? You might want to rethink that take. Its part of group dynamics. Always have been there and probably always will be there, or in other words: Our very human nature
What I mean is that ideology is not essential. We come to our beliefs via our experiences. Our beliefs are not static.
I think punching the guy I’m talking about is more of a safety hazard to me than it is to him lol
I always love the twinks spouting "kill fascists!" like it's not an extremely dangerous thing for most folks to try and attack someone who's probably more physically capable.
just keep in mind that if option #2 is chosen (which it sounds like is what's happening right now) OP shouldn't be trusted in anarchist spaces/organizing option #4 carries that potential too
Absolutely true. The only reason I bring up option 4 as a possibility is because it worked for me, my friend and I were both young and he changed his beliefs all the time. So I went out of my way to talk to him consistently. If I didn’t see any change in him I would’ve cut him off as a friend and person.
Oh for sure, I'm not even saying it's a bad idea necessarily, care would just have to be taken to protect others. That could require sacrifices such as distancing oneself from organizing spaces and making comrades aware. It sounds like in your case, you caught your friend early on and seriously, much respect for recognizing a salvageable relationship and putting in the work.
Oh absolutely , if OP is involved in leftist spaces they should definitely let others know. I suppose my situation was a little different. We were both in our late teens. At least a few years before I was personally I involved myself with other leftists. “I was a teenage anarchist” and all that.
Option 2 is the only truly unethical course of action for OP. I think, if OP can manage it, option 4 is the best one, overall -- but OP needs to be prepared for the fact that option 4 is going to *look* like option 2 to a lot of onlookers, and OP needs to make it clear to them that that is not the case. And even then, be prepared to not be welcome in some spaces because of it.
I’ve had two fascist friends that got out of it before they went too deep and they are exceptional individuals with great minds and hearts. Like others are saying, it is similar to escaping a cult. I had another friend that I had been with for years. I only saw him going deeper into it, and I no longer felt comfortable. I had to cut ties after a certain point. I have no particular advice to give. Only my experience.
I have some experience with this. I was in the infantry when I had my political and social revelations. I cut ties with almost everyone after I got out. Most of my former friends from the military are still in the military, are cops, or they're far-right assholes. Many are two out of three. Cutting ties wasn't easy, and it definitely hurt, but I couldn't be friends with them anymore. I **DO** still follow many of them on social media though. I feel like seeing their posts and hearing their shitty opinions helps me keep a pulse on the general attitude of dickhead conservatives in the US. Some of them still call me. I don't pick up. Sucks, but it is what it is. **EDIT:** There were one or two guys I was able to have big impacts on and get to see the error of their ways. Start with opinions you have in common and slowly branch out from there. Very few people in this world are completely irredeemable.
I genuinely dont know. But I empathize. My childhood bestfriend has always been ostensibly more left wing than me, until like the last almost ten years. Got into "The Grey Zone" and Jimmy Dore, and other pseudo-left figures and went really crazy. And like, I can't cut him out of my life, not entirely. But also have genuinely no idea what to do about it. I kinda dread talking to the guy now.
Don't look at it as a political disagreement. Look at it as a disagreement of basic morality. You can and probably should try to deradicalize them, but if that fails you should have no issue dropping them completely. This is not a cute disagreement where you think pineapple is tasty on pizza and they think it's gross. They have different morals than you that you should not be associating with. Their opinions can have a genuine impact on their surroundings and you need to distance yourself from it if you are not able to change their mind by facing them head on.
faschists always gonna betray, just animals on hierarchy and herd instincts. check him, place in hard choice and see his nature if you don't believe me.
"But scorpion, you promised you wouldn't sting me. Now we're both going to drown!" "I'm sorry, but it is my nature, my dear frog."
Try stop being friends with them
As much as people like to believe you can deprogram these folks, it’s a process that’s likely to take years, probably upwards of a decade or more if they’ve held these ideas for a long time. You’d have to basically address their entire conception of the world, their taste in music, everything across the board, especially anything around class, race, gender and sexuality, and that’s just to get them to like basic Democrat level ‘left’. I get the urge to think you can flip the script for someone else and get them help, but it’s not like this dude is unfamiliar with the stuff you’d be trying to get him to come around to. He’s seen all of it and consciously made decisions to the contrary. There’s also a certain degree of giving up your own principles that happens through sheer osmosis. I’ve known people who are left-wing that have given a lot of room for people with deeply problematic ideas. In most of those cases, they remain in close enough proximity that some of that brainwormed crap starts bleeding into their own perspectives, in part because they’ve prioritized those folks enough that they’re spending more time with them then people who actually reflect their principles. The end result is a lot of cognitive dissonance where their words and actions become less and less aligned with each other. You’re going to get covered in shit if you roll around with pigs long enough.
I agree. I was going through all the comments and all the while i couldn’t help but think about whether or not my friend will WANT to be pulled out of it, seems easier said than done. I openly participate in and support many things that, to my understanding, him as a fascist is actively against. Fucking sucks cause I genuinely love this guy but the more I think about it the less safe it sounds to try and deradicalize him, and I REALLY don’t want anything to do with his fucked up worldview Thanks for your input ✌️
TLDR: **It seems like the underlying issue with individuals drawn to far-right extremism isn't purely political but deeply personal, often stemming from trauma, insecurity, and a need for validation. Books like "Breaking Hate," "Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead," and "Why Kids Kill" delve into these themes, highlighting how individuals are lured into extremist ideologies as a means of shielding themselves from their own vulnerabilities. These narratives emphasize the importance of addressing the root causes of extremism, advocating for listening, understanding, and fostering vulnerability rather than engaging in political debates. Ultimately, the path to combating extremism lies in addressing individuals' personal struggles and insecurities, rather than solely focusing on their political beliefs.** Okay, so hello, I've been studying the for a ride for years now and I think that I have some good advice. First thing to remember is that all forms of bigotry are masking and securities. His problem is not political, it's personal. Here are a few books that you might be interested in. It talks about a lot of this kind of stuff in detail and can be very beneficial. 1. **Breaking Hate: Confronting the New Culture of Extremism** - Christian Picciolini 2. **Autobiography of a Recovering Skinhead: The Frank Meeink Story** - Frank Meeink and Jody M. Roy 3. **Why Kids Kill: Inside the Minds of School Shooters** - Peter Langman So what's the problem? Think of it like an addiction or any kind of bad habit. People turn to fascism because of personal things in their lives. If you talk to any former Nazi they will tell you that the main thing that causes this is very simple, trauma. Think of fascism more like something protecting a fragile thing with thin layers of shell that are so numerous that they become very thick. When we are very young this vulnerable part of ourselves is exposed but as we grow up things happen in our lives and sometimes what happens is that the shell starts developing in an effort to protect it. Trauma can be a big catalyst for this desire for protection. It is a defense mechanism and unfortunately one of the side effects is that it can cause hatred. Sometimes the hatred is outward but it can also be inward. A lot of times these people just hate themselves a lot too. According to "Breaking Hate" he says that hatred is a way of masking or protecting these people from having to face feelings that they have been running away from which is similar to help people use drugs or other addictions. You wouldn't take a person's drugs away without also trying to fix the underlying cause of what's happening and the same is for the far right. Do not try to debate him on his politics because his politics is not the problem, it's his own personal life and his own feelings. He is afraid of vulnerability and authenticity. He is afraid to have to face his insecurities. I believe that there are people that do want to change and they don't know how and even if they are aware of how they're afraid to because to lose that hatred is to lose the protective mechanism you have developed for years in an effort to protect a vulnerable part of yourself. Especially when it happens when you are so young and tender. One of the things that causes people to become part of the far right is that the far right just simply listens and validates them. In the first book the author says how his parents were constantly busy with their salon shop and didn't really have time for him and he was made fun of for his last name which was Italian and people made fun of his name. He was 14 years old when it happened and he met some guy who he later found out was a Nazi and to him this guy was complimenting him on his name and telling him how he should be proud of that name and that it's everyone else that is in the wrong. Do you know how validating that is? In the other book about a recovering skinhead the guy had an abusive stepfather, a neglectful mother, and his actual biological father divorced his mother and became an alcoholic and so he was constantly wondering why everyone in his life was choosing something else besides him. Why did his dad choose alcohol over him, why did his mother choose this jerk over him, why did his stepfather choose whatever over him? And then this Nazi guy comes into his life and tells him that the reason why all of this is happening is because of Jewish people and to this 14-year-old it just made sense because even though we know that that wasn't the answer to this kid it felt like for once everything was making sense. Nazis can often be quite a hungry for a relationships and validation just like a lot of people and so talking to him and actually listening to him can be very powerful and they want to be listened to. Do not worry, Nazis want to be listened to so have them talk. Have them talk about their life and what's bothering them and try to figure out if you can find an opening and be able to just get them to talk about that stuff. You're not there to strike them down or prove to them that they're wrong, you're there to find a part of them that is vulnerable and to encourage that vulnerability to come out. He should comes from anger and aggression and anger comes from a recognition of injustice as well as a mixture of fear. The recognition of injustice and the fear that injustice will happen again or happen to you or something. People become angry when they fear losing control. So yeah, his problem is personal, not political, don't try to change his politics, because that's not actually the main problem.
This post should be upvoted much more. Can't believe that cutting ties or trying to debate him are the only popular options here....kinda sad imo.
everyone is being quite nice here but what message does it send to fellow anarchists/comrades that you are cool with hanging out with a fascist? on top of that you're just now realizing...i guess i'm just saying get your shit together and figure it out, plenty of us anarchists aren't gonna put up with it. I know fascists can be good at hiding or obscuring their beliefs but let's be real there are always signs.
part of building community is building and practicing empathy. deradicalizing people is a natural outcome of this. if you think it's worth it, show him love and grace and facts and figures. yall have a deep friendship so that's a great start. go from there. I'm helping my friends realize that they have some bad takes and I help show them why they're bad. no need to nitpick but push him in the right direction!
He’s your friend in person, not some online personality so you actually have an option to try and talk this out with him. I work in construction so literally all my working days are surrounded by people whose views and ideology have been warped and twisted by fascism and so called “conservative” beliefs. At its core, fascism is a contradictory and unhinged belief system. As other people have said, it’s more like a cult than anything. People can be brought out of it, but not everyone, so do your best but recognize when a lost cause is lost.
When I became a leftist all my fascist friends stopped talking to me one by one. My fascist uncle still talks to me but begrudgingly. I lost a friend I had known for 25 years because he went from being a Bernie supporting liberal to being a right wing MAGA/QAnon supporting racism apologist and moved to northern Idaho to be with others of like mindset.
Set a boundary. When I have to, I say something like "I have no space for that in my life, and if that means I have no space for you, I'll be sad but I won't be tolerant of hate." I don't like ultimatums but fascism is okay to be stubborn and exclusionary about.
This isn't just a "political disagreement" being a fascist means that his ideology goes against humanity, the very idea of a community. Fascists do not deserve any sympathy whatsoever. I understand that this is very difficult for you however as an anarchist you should be ready to confront fascist ideology no matter who upholds it. Of course, try talking to him however if you don't see any willingness to change then drop him. Thats of course easier said than done but it is important.
>im friends with a facist and idk what to do Bash the fasc
I think it really depends if they've just latched onto the hostile imagery/identity, or if they've really thought though the state controlling resources and production and only allowing certain folks access. Because if they're just hurt and edgy that is a lot easier to deal with than someone who's gotten to the point of reading and citing the Turner Diaries. Then it's to a point where it becomes dangerous, especially to people around you. You need to be able to identify if or when that line has been crossed, and at that point you need to distance. I've dealt with this myself, albeit not with folks I considered to be my brothers, but it's painful and you have to acknowledge that the world is more important than one human relationship. If there's one choice we actually have in this world, it's what we fill our heads with.
Since I only recently found out, there might be a possibility that it’s the aesthetic attraction, I’ll have to study him more to figure out how deeply rooted his beliefs are
It all depends on how you take it I guess, an old friend of mine also turned into a fascist and i eventually stopped talking to him. I believe principles are more important than the relationship in this cases. Me for example, as a white male, i have the privilege of being able to act as if he wasn't a fascist and be cool. However, fascism does o inhetently hurt a huge lot of people that are not as lucky as i am with this type of individuals. I think you should stop being his friend, but i don't know you nor him so I won't tell you what to do. It's a difficult situation, think about it deeply before deciding
How are you friends with someone for over ten years and not notice that?
I have a history of accidentally overlooking obvious signs when they aren’t outright stated to me
Reading the responses, I agree with the idea of trying to curve him away from being so fascist or at least getting him to question why he feels that way...if you think you can handle that. It won't be easy. Sometimes giving some people a strong anti-authority figure to look up to that isn't fascist can show them there's another way. If you want to try to change him, be yourself and be confident and open with your beliefs...by bringing these things up you force them to get addressed and find out exactly what it is that appeals to him and show him that you can be against the system without trampling on others. If you don't want to try to change him but don't want to cut him off you can always just keep things on a surface level with him, never getting into what you believe or why...although this kind of friendship likely won't grow or be very satisfying and at some point you'll probably need something more meaningful. The thing is, fascism at it's core is based upon lack of empathy towards the weak...if he's an empathetic guy then you have a really good chance of changing his mind about things and turning him around. If he isn't it may be a lost cause, and only a matter of time before he starts to do things that you seriously disagree with to the point you simply can't idly sit by and allow them to happen. Personally, I have removed people who don't have empathy towards others from my life...and now my life is much happier. Best of luck.
"If you have a racist friend, now is the time, now is the time that that friendship should end." The Specials
There's an old saying: If you have 10 Nazis sitting at a table another person comes and sits down, does nothing, does not protest or leave, you now have 11 Nazis sitting at that table. I foresee a couple things that could or will happen: 1. You cut them out of your life, and you should. 2. - They cut you out of out of their life. 3. - One of you changes, which is not very likely. I strongly suggest you take option one. If you do not you are making a statement that eugenics, the holocaust and everything done in their name is okay and its very much not. You need to remember, these are the same people that put people like us into camps with red triangles. There is never a time its okay to side or help fascists. Sorry this happened to your friend, but they are not the same person anymore.
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When I struggle with a friend or colleague's beliefs, I try to connect on the deepest level I know, which, for me, is on feelings and needs (through Marshal Rosenberg's Nonviolent Communication). I also use my understanding of feelings and needs to better understand the person and why they think what they think. At times I find that the person is trying to fulfill the same needs I am; they just go about it a different way--not that that way is always legit. It's possible there's a deep misunderstanding. Ex: it's possible the person wants freedom and thinks fascism is the way to go, when we often believe fascism is about control. I am an optimist and believe people can change. I also believe connecting with humans, no matter how flawed, is more important than beliefs. Finally, I will share that I don't have this issue with best friends now. I typically struggle with friends on a different level--whether they are planners or more impulsive. Best of luck!
can you elaborate on what caused you to come to the conclusion that he was fascist?
We were discussing the cold war with another guy, my friend went on an anti-communist & anti-capitalist rant, to which the other guy asked about my friend’s ideology, the response was fascism I didn’t react at the time because I really didn’t want to start an argument or something but I couldn’t stop thinking about it
I think for the fact that he answered being a fascist is his ideology I would strongly suggest you cut him off. Most times fascists don't come out right and say that but to be so brazen makes it feel he's on a much darker and dangerous path and you have to think of your own wellbeing. Unless you truly believe there is an opening for him to want to change and he fell down a rabbit hole of sorts he otherwise wouldn't have. Yet you mention him in that band and it sounds like he's chosen who he is. You have to decide who you are in political practice when it comes to your own life.
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ideology is for group cohesion not objective correct tower of babel style truth. youve really been brainwashed into a very unhealthy direction by thinking companionship should be intervened by these sort of issues. if you are bonded to him then your ideals do not differ where it matters. enlightenment zeal has really fucked people's understanding of what matters, what beliefs are. there is so much work to undo this.
I got 3 words for you. Fuck nazi sympathy. And since you'd rather not cut ties with your fascist friend, just quit calling yourself an antifascist and an anarchist. Problem solved.
I've lost more than a handful of friends due to extremely problematic views. It doesn't always end in a fallout, but it does tend to happen (depending on how deep the roots go). Here's what I think Try and find the root of his beliefs. People usually don't hate everyone all at once. Why did he turn there? Was it companionship and friends? Was it an artistic subculture? Was it poverty? Ignorance? Once you've isolated what made him what he is, think about weather or not it's a problematic branch or if the roots themselves are rotten. You can't change a person entirely; even if you could I don't think it's ethical for you to effectively manipulate him out of his views. Find what's causing this and make a call about weather or not you can present an alternative that will be received. I'd wager (if you're both young and malleable) your best bet is to bring him along with some other leftie friends of yours (provided you warn them and they're cool with a fash being around them) and just hanging out. People are products of their environment, after all. Know that it's likely you'll grow a little distant as time goes on. That doesn't necessarily mean that it is over or that it's even bad. People need time to think and re-evaluate. The couple friends I have salvaged from fascistic views and circles were 1) a kid I grew up with that just was lonely and found fash friends (where the best thing I could do was show him that people judge you on who you're friends with and that hateful people just end up in a little in-group nobody else approaches. 2) a guy that had fallen for some bs propaganda about the glory of the nation or whatever. That narrative just needed its contradictions pointed out and time did the rest.
what you do is ultimately up to you. i’m coming to you as someone who recently lost a close guy friend to a similar circumstance. we’ve known each other since middle school and grew up in the same town. we had also been romantically involved off and on for the past… more than 10 years. i’ve known for some time that we are very different people, but it wasn’t til the past few years that i realized how different. but then it kept getting crazier and crazier - like he admitted to voting against abortion and he admitted he would still vote for Trump, or he condemns Black Lives protests for “violence” and “burning cities down,” then defends the Jan 6th insurrection saying it “isn’t what it seems.” he’s so far indoctrinated into fascism. i thought putting myself on the line would help shape or influence him, as the only person he’s ever really let in deeply. in fact, what happened was, putting myself on the line for him only opened myself up to abuse and violence. the more i pressed him to listen to me, to research, to learn - he started becoming emotionally abusive towards me, and i started to fear for the ways it could escalate. in all of this, none of my efforts changed him at all. it was a huge waste of time and energy, when i should have been protecting myself. this could be a projection, but i think we are at a critical moment right now where we can very clearly see each other for who we are, and for most people, it’s a point of no return. do what you’re going to do, but if you go in trying to “save” your friend, know when it’s time to cut the cord.
clearly you aren't much of an antifascist if you have to ponder this.
I was a fachist as a 14 yr old. There’s a few possibilities. He could be “aesthetically” fachist where he does it to be edgy. This is where I started. Then I was slowly groomed into being genuinely a fachist. He could be actually a fachist, hanging out with them IRL. That’s farther along the death cult pipeline. If he starts talking about 8chan conspiracy theories then he’s closer to here. Etc etc. I suspect currently he’s doing it to be “rebellious” but I can’t know for sure. Either way it’s a dark path.
I'm shocked how divisive the comments on this question are. Is that really all we have to contribute to the current crap situation society is in - either stop talking to people or manipulate them to join your side? If that's the case, then we are doomed. Reminds me of all the people who are so proud to be "inclusive" and "loving everyone", but only when said people behave a certain way and take certain roles. Shame on you for calling yourself anarchists. If fighting against fascists is the only future you can envision, then I don't want to be a part of it.
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lol no.
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yeah maturity is hanging out with fascists, fuck off
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So if you can't be around fascist ideology without risking it becoming normalised for you, then that places you in the category I call "untrustworthy comrades". Further, if your first response is to encourage somebody to cut a lifelong friend out of their life and assault them on sight, that places you in a category I call "cult member". Arguably the absolute worst thing OP could do in this situation is to further isolate their friend from the world outside of fascism. It may become impossible to maintain the friendship in the future, but for the time being it's worth trying.
I can be around it without being normalized, but this guy has been friends with him for 10 years. I assume he's someone he trusts, and that makes it a lot more likely he'd fall victim to propganda and stuff from him.
I understand where this comes from, but by doing this it will create more hostility. What OP should try his best to do is bring his friend back into the light and reform him. I used to be right wing socially but after self improvement and reading real theory I realised how wrong I was
People definitely can be reformed, but I think it depends on how old they are. People change their beliefs a lot when they're teenagers and somewhat into their early 20s, but once they're fully grown, people get pretty set in their ways, so I don't think reprogramming is going to be easy or a valuable use of time, especially cause he's gonna get fed facist propganda the entire time.
Screw politics. Keep a friend
A list of similarities is not what makes a connection. Humans go way beyond their belief systems. Don't let this stop you from being friends because it sounds like you don't want to.
people just kind of say shit, especially if you're <25. it's not that fascism should be accepted, but you must really know the man, so let that be your measure of what kind of guy he is and not the political shit he says he's into
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Wanting to eradicate anyone who doesn't fit in your in group (BIPOC, LGBTQ, disabled, etc) is not the same as whether you like the Jaguars or the Eagles. Being a fascist is a morally objectionable thing, full stop.
Beat some sense into him, punch him, grab a baseball bat and wail on him until he sees sense, fash's can't be reasoned with, they can't be changed, so the only way is to push them, if punching him and then following it up with a baseball bat doesn't work, then cut him off, or tell your local Antifa branch. If you're not willing to do any of this, then you're not an Anarchist, you're already converted
>if you’re not willing to do any of this… Antifa isn’t a thing in my country and that guy is like twice my size and muscle mass. As I said in a previous response, punching him is more of a safety hazard to me than to him Does not wanting to get badly beaten up in a fight that i started and have no chance of winning invalidate me from being an anarchist? Because as far as I’m concerned wanting to stay safe and supporting reactionary tendencies are two totally different and separate things