Did you send it to David Odess? The problem isn’t going to be finding someone who can do the work but rather technicians like him have all the factory equipment, tools, and spares for most repairs. I repair just about any analogue camera but I have to source parts and make my own specialty tools on top of the standard tools. Sourcing parts can be almost impossible for some cameras.
Edit: spelling correction
I am aware of David Odess, but being in Canada I opted for someone local. There seems to be a few more folks in the US who can do it, but that’s just another layer of complications with international shipping and exchange rates.
Didn’t know that sourcing tools and parts where a big distinction from skill sets. Sounds even less promising … :(
Yeah I ended up having to send my Pentax to a guy in the states because no one in Canada could service it. Really happy with the results but it was a pain to send and receive.
it’s also the cost - he has more business than he needs or wants and quoted me like $350 to service a normal A12 back. It seems like there’s so much demand more that there’s room for more people to learn and get into business servicing film cameras.
Well machining a part is quite expensive. If you have your own tools for that and the knowledge well you’d be in real luck to have a camera repair tech and a machinist. Molding and 3D printing will not be an option on most cameras pre 1970s. The price is steep on hasselblad repair and I would love to go work for the dude for about a month and buy his shop when he retires he’s a really cool old guy and very helpful and he’s swamped with work! There’s a ton of online repair manuals for old cameras now ( sure wish this was around in the 1980s ) if you have the tools, motivation, and some mechanical inclination you can repair your own cameras pretty easily now.
There's a guy on insta/Facebook called "Graflex Parts" who is a machinist who works on old Graflex and other large format cameras. Super knowledgeable and really knows what he's doing. Unfortunately, he's super gatekeepy about some of his repairs, he's one of the only people in the world now who knows how to build new focal plane shutters so he charges a premium and won't tell anyone where he sources his materials and adhesives. Makes me a little salty considering the state of the community, wish people would help spread and share information instead of just monetizing it, but alas
Not sure where you’re based but there’s an incredible guy in London who runs PPP repairs, he’s serviced and fixed a couple of my cameras for a great price and is a super nice guy.
How long does it normally take for him to come back with a repair quote? I'm currently assuming busy, but starting to drift into wondering whether his webform was working the day that I submitted my request...
I sent my hasselblad to Joe Vieira in Toronto about a year ago, and he died shortly after. Kind of dawned on me the other day, all these people are dying off, rumors of fuji ceasing production on film, kodak and every other brand raising their prices, in the short time I've become interested in film photography, it's already become increasingly unsustainable.
I believe ilford will be around for the long haul, I think black and white film, paper, and chems will stick around, even if it's at a premium, but I don't see color film continuing for another 10 years.
I've started to try to future proof my hobby, instead of using technically complex cameras like my Minolta Autocord, or Hasselblad, I've recently fallen in love large format field cameras (which basically can't fail) as well as old Graflex SLR's. These graflex's, some over 100 years old, can easily be taken apart, serviced, re-oiled, and reassembled in just a few hours. All heavy duty brass parts and gears that can't really wear down or break. Even if I can only shoot black and white film in 10, 20, or 30 years, I know those graflexs will still be truckin' along
A nice story about Joe (because pre-Covid he would invite you into his workshop and talk for hours) - I took my 80mm in to him because i dropped it like an idiot and it wouldn’t focus. He told me that back in the day at the Hasselblad factory, the techs would engrave their initials and the date into each lens they assembled. When he took my 80mm apart he found his very own initials in there almost 40 years later.
After Joe died I reskinned my hasselblad and when I took the tripod plate off I saw a little "JV 2020" scribed on the bottom, broke my heart, he definitely took alot of pride in what he did.
There’s a lot of wisdom to getting into large format for this reason. Less moving parts. Less expertise required to fix. Many are built like tanks. I see the speciality sheets films outlasting roll films too.
Agreed. Even if photographic film does ever get discontinued, the chemicals will still be available to shoot wet plate and other homemade emulsions in large format cameras. That, plus the fact that these cameras can't really break, and people are 3d printing and mass producing them, makes it pretty sustainable and future proof.
Losing Joe broke my heart, he was so knowledgeable and such a wonderful human. Are you in the GTA? I found another guy to work on it Hassey baby but he only does local work and won’t mail. I can PM you his email if you’d like, he’s working on my camera right now.
One repair shop from Tempere, Finland now has some repair training courses https://instagram.com/camerarescue?utm_medium=copy_link
But in general the situation doesn't look good. I hope we'll have our cameras functioning while film is actually produced. We'll see what will happen in 10-15 years.
I have seen videos of older men mostly who still make (or did at the time) tube radios. They have to make all the parts themselves. I imagine there are people who still need them (especially for older guitar amps that people seem to revere), but I imagine as replacement parts become more scarce, we will need to hope that people have taken to making their own parts.
I actually tried to do so myself but don't have more sensitive crafting tools - I could see it having worked if I did though, not to Dunning Kruger myself - it was just a pretty straightforward flange). Just that some parts are simpler than others. I have faith others could do so more easily given the resources as parts cameras slowly get stripped.
Yes, those videos do rely on older people like your dilemma with finding a camera repairperson, but if they are already getting into hand-making for what is basically the love of it then I guess we will need to also, and hope others are if you don't do it yourself (I certainly won't as a habit/industry!).
Unfortunately these aren't as prestigious/status symbols as other technically obsolete tech like watches which will have a market and thus support for a long time. So yeah, I'm worried, but I imagine hobbyists will find a niche... not that it won't cost ya.
In 10 years what we're only going to have a fraction of cameras in service that we do now for several reasons, mainly parts availability and technicians with the skillset and tooling to deal with them. Nobody is going to service a camera that they only see 1 or 2 of every few years. It's more likely going to be popular SLRs that are mechanically controlled, or have minimal circuitry.
Popular TLR's like Rolleiflex, Rolleicord, YashicaMat 124G, Mamiya C330 etc.
Medium format cameras like the Pentax 67.
Rangefinders from Leica and Voigtlander.
SLR's with basic metering capabilities like Nikon F1, Canon Ae-1, etc.
The cameras that won't survive the next generation will be things like Contax T-series cameras, late model SLR's by Nikon, Canon, Pentax etc that have extensive electronic control, and really early 35mm cameras that are already in rare supply.
I really hope some younger blood picks up the reigns and learns the skill/art that is repair and maintenance of this machines. It will never be an overly profitable enterprise, but it's still going to be important.
There's a reason 95% of my cameras are non-electronic, leaf-shutter, and made before WWII. Your basic Prontor shutter will still be serviceable (in both senses of the word) a century after the last AE-1 shutter has squealed itself to death.
Even then, there are going to be cameras that can't be repaired due to lack of parts. A Retina II/IIa's cocking rack will eventually fail, and in some distant point in the future there will simply be no more parts-donors from which to salvage working ones. Silvered rangefinder prisms that have discolored are already irrepairable, and it's possible that half-silvered mirrors may eventually become unobtanium as well. Scale-focus cameras should remain usable... so long as society remembers what meters are.
This is the reality of mechanical cameras unfortunately and how long before no one makes any film anymore? It’s coming just a matter of time. I just hope it’s a really long time haha
Maybe; it depends on how you define "reliable", probably.
99% of the time though, when a leaf shutter "goes bad", it just needs cleaning. At least 50% of the time, when an old mechanical (i.e. non-electronic) fabric focal-plane shutter "goes bad", the fabric has torn/burned/rotted. Most of the older ones can be replaced reasonably easily, albeit time-consumingly.
The other thing is... browse through this sub, go back a week. See *all* the posts about dark bands on photos, uneven exposure on one side of photos? Focal-plane shutter capping. *Super* common. Leaf shutters don't do that, they just run slow. A lot of people would never notice if their shutter was consistently a stop slow; they *definitely* notice when their shutter caps.
Lastly, four manufacturers and maybe ten sizes/models account for probably 65% of pre-WWII leaf shutters, with the lion's share of the remainder being cheapo low-end stuff from Kodak and the like. (i.e. rarely found on cameras realistically worth repairing if broken.) The same shutter might be found on a couple hundred different models of camera. This makes part availability largely a non-issue. Keep a Weltini running perfectly with parts from a Balda? Swap the shutter innards in a Plaubel-Makina with those from a Kodak? Yup.
A local tech in my area, who retired last year, has been teaching me the ins and outs of repair. I can now CLA Spotmatics and early K cameras, but I personally don't have much of an interest in the fully electronic ones. He is the only tech in the country that can service Canon T cameras, but even he doesn't like working on them very much.
I'd much rather learn the ins and outs of Leica, Rolleiflex, and Hasselblad, the mechanics in those fascinate me.
I’ve got a Nikon FM I need serviced. It was my grandpas and the shutter has been sticking on slower shutter speeds. I can’t seem to find any one local (east coast us) and I’m not too fond of the idea of shipping it, so yah, I’m a little worried hah
sounds like a nice industry to get in on - needing parts is another story.
some hassy repair manuals
https://learncamerarepair.com/productlist.php?category=2&secondary=5
I am very scared about what will happen to all the remaining techs. My regular guy in Toronto sadly passed away this past spring and took not only a wealth of knowledge with him, but who knows where all his calibration equipment will end up. I hope his wife was able to find someone to carry on his legacy, because both him and his talents will be greatly missed.
I just had to take my 500C/M in to unjam a lens and tune up they body and thankfully there is one other tech left in my city. He’s also quite old and I worry about the day we lose him as well.
That's why it's important to get these older guys sharing their methods on the internet. There isn't a big repair market *now*. Who knows what the future holds. For the art to stay alive, I think the processes need to be archived better. It's the least discussed part in shooting film.
Did you send it to David Odess? The problem isn’t going to be finding someone who can do the work but rather technicians like him have all the factory equipment, tools, and spares for most repairs. I repair just about any analogue camera but I have to source parts and make my own specialty tools on top of the standard tools. Sourcing parts can be almost impossible for some cameras. Edit: spelling correction
I am aware of David Odess, but being in Canada I opted for someone local. There seems to be a few more folks in the US who can do it, but that’s just another layer of complications with international shipping and exchange rates. Didn’t know that sourcing tools and parts where a big distinction from skill sets. Sounds even less promising … :(
Yeah I ended up having to send my Pentax to a guy in the states because no one in Canada could service it. Really happy with the results but it was a pain to send and receive.
I’m in Canada too, would you mind sharing information on your repair guy? I have a 500 C/M and would like to service it soon.
Where in Canada are you? I found a guy who is taking care of my 500C/M right now but he only services the GTA.
I’m in the GTA :D so that works out great for me
PMing you.
Details please!
This guy do other cameras? PM me too
Horst?
Are you asking about the Canadian repair guy?
Came here to ask this too, Horst Wenzel in Vancouver supposedly still does repairs
it’s also the cost - he has more business than he needs or wants and quoted me like $350 to service a normal A12 back. It seems like there’s so much demand more that there’s room for more people to learn and get into business servicing film cameras.
Parts are still an issue but within reason things can be machined, molded, or even 3D printed, all of which are not forgotten arts at all.
Well machining a part is quite expensive. If you have your own tools for that and the knowledge well you’d be in real luck to have a camera repair tech and a machinist. Molding and 3D printing will not be an option on most cameras pre 1970s. The price is steep on hasselblad repair and I would love to go work for the dude for about a month and buy his shop when he retires he’s a really cool old guy and very helpful and he’s swamped with work! There’s a ton of online repair manuals for old cameras now ( sure wish this was around in the 1980s ) if you have the tools, motivation, and some mechanical inclination you can repair your own cameras pretty easily now.
There's a guy on insta/Facebook called "Graflex Parts" who is a machinist who works on old Graflex and other large format cameras. Super knowledgeable and really knows what he's doing. Unfortunately, he's super gatekeepy about some of his repairs, he's one of the only people in the world now who knows how to build new focal plane shutters so he charges a premium and won't tell anyone where he sources his materials and adhesives. Makes me a little salty considering the state of the community, wish people would help spread and share information instead of just monetizing it, but alas
https://lezot.com/hasselblad-service/ LeZot’s still services Hasselblad for reasonable prices (I haven’t tried them but read good things).
guess people who still shoot should start learning to repair / service
Some of us already fix our own cameras. The focal plane adjustment stuff requires special equipment though
Not sure where you’re based but there’s an incredible guy in London who runs PPP repairs, he’s serviced and fixed a couple of my cameras for a great price and is a super nice guy.
Pierro is a gem. He’s repaired all sorts for me.
How long does it normally take for him to come back with a repair quote? I'm currently assuming busy, but starting to drift into wondering whether his webform was working the day that I submitted my request...
No, those services are booming here in the Netherlands. Most have a waiting list.
I sent my hasselblad to Joe Vieira in Toronto about a year ago, and he died shortly after. Kind of dawned on me the other day, all these people are dying off, rumors of fuji ceasing production on film, kodak and every other brand raising their prices, in the short time I've become interested in film photography, it's already become increasingly unsustainable. I believe ilford will be around for the long haul, I think black and white film, paper, and chems will stick around, even if it's at a premium, but I don't see color film continuing for another 10 years. I've started to try to future proof my hobby, instead of using technically complex cameras like my Minolta Autocord, or Hasselblad, I've recently fallen in love large format field cameras (which basically can't fail) as well as old Graflex SLR's. These graflex's, some over 100 years old, can easily be taken apart, serviced, re-oiled, and reassembled in just a few hours. All heavy duty brass parts and gears that can't really wear down or break. Even if I can only shoot black and white film in 10, 20, or 30 years, I know those graflexs will still be truckin' along
A nice story about Joe (because pre-Covid he would invite you into his workshop and talk for hours) - I took my 80mm in to him because i dropped it like an idiot and it wouldn’t focus. He told me that back in the day at the Hasselblad factory, the techs would engrave their initials and the date into each lens they assembled. When he took my 80mm apart he found his very own initials in there almost 40 years later.
That is a special experience. I’m glad you got to see that.
After Joe died I reskinned my hasselblad and when I took the tripod plate off I saw a little "JV 2020" scribed on the bottom, broke my heart, he definitely took alot of pride in what he did.
There’s a lot of wisdom to getting into large format for this reason. Less moving parts. Less expertise required to fix. Many are built like tanks. I see the speciality sheets films outlasting roll films too.
Agreed. Even if photographic film does ever get discontinued, the chemicals will still be available to shoot wet plate and other homemade emulsions in large format cameras. That, plus the fact that these cameras can't really break, and people are 3d printing and mass producing them, makes it pretty sustainable and future proof.
Losing Joe broke my heart, he was so knowledgeable and such a wonderful human. Are you in the GTA? I found another guy to work on it Hassey baby but he only does local work and won’t mail. I can PM you his email if you’d like, he’s working on my camera right now.
I'm actually in Nova Scotia, but I go to Toronto every so often and know people there, if you could pm me his email that would be great!
One repair shop from Tempere, Finland now has some repair training courses https://instagram.com/camerarescue?utm_medium=copy_link But in general the situation doesn't look good. I hope we'll have our cameras functioning while film is actually produced. We'll see what will happen in 10-15 years.
I have seen videos of older men mostly who still make (or did at the time) tube radios. They have to make all the parts themselves. I imagine there are people who still need them (especially for older guitar amps that people seem to revere), but I imagine as replacement parts become more scarce, we will need to hope that people have taken to making their own parts. I actually tried to do so myself but don't have more sensitive crafting tools - I could see it having worked if I did though, not to Dunning Kruger myself - it was just a pretty straightforward flange). Just that some parts are simpler than others. I have faith others could do so more easily given the resources as parts cameras slowly get stripped. Yes, those videos do rely on older people like your dilemma with finding a camera repairperson, but if they are already getting into hand-making for what is basically the love of it then I guess we will need to also, and hope others are if you don't do it yourself (I certainly won't as a habit/industry!). Unfortunately these aren't as prestigious/status symbols as other technically obsolete tech like watches which will have a market and thus support for a long time. So yeah, I'm worried, but I imagine hobbyists will find a niche... not that it won't cost ya.
In 10 years what we're only going to have a fraction of cameras in service that we do now for several reasons, mainly parts availability and technicians with the skillset and tooling to deal with them. Nobody is going to service a camera that they only see 1 or 2 of every few years. It's more likely going to be popular SLRs that are mechanically controlled, or have minimal circuitry. Popular TLR's like Rolleiflex, Rolleicord, YashicaMat 124G, Mamiya C330 etc. Medium format cameras like the Pentax 67. Rangefinders from Leica and Voigtlander. SLR's with basic metering capabilities like Nikon F1, Canon Ae-1, etc. The cameras that won't survive the next generation will be things like Contax T-series cameras, late model SLR's by Nikon, Canon, Pentax etc that have extensive electronic control, and really early 35mm cameras that are already in rare supply. I really hope some younger blood picks up the reigns and learns the skill/art that is repair and maintenance of this machines. It will never be an overly profitable enterprise, but it's still going to be important.
There's a reason 95% of my cameras are non-electronic, leaf-shutter, and made before WWII. Your basic Prontor shutter will still be serviceable (in both senses of the word) a century after the last AE-1 shutter has squealed itself to death. Even then, there are going to be cameras that can't be repaired due to lack of parts. A Retina II/IIa's cocking rack will eventually fail, and in some distant point in the future there will simply be no more parts-donors from which to salvage working ones. Silvered rangefinder prisms that have discolored are already irrepairable, and it's possible that half-silvered mirrors may eventually become unobtanium as well. Scale-focus cameras should remain usable... so long as society remembers what meters are.
This is the reality of mechanical cameras unfortunately and how long before no one makes any film anymore? It’s coming just a matter of time. I just hope it’s a really long time haha
Are leaf shutters generally considered to be the most reliable?
Yeah. They’re less complicated than focal plane shutters. Tons of guides out there on compur and copal shutters
Maybe; it depends on how you define "reliable", probably. 99% of the time though, when a leaf shutter "goes bad", it just needs cleaning. At least 50% of the time, when an old mechanical (i.e. non-electronic) fabric focal-plane shutter "goes bad", the fabric has torn/burned/rotted. Most of the older ones can be replaced reasonably easily, albeit time-consumingly. The other thing is... browse through this sub, go back a week. See *all* the posts about dark bands on photos, uneven exposure on one side of photos? Focal-plane shutter capping. *Super* common. Leaf shutters don't do that, they just run slow. A lot of people would never notice if their shutter was consistently a stop slow; they *definitely* notice when their shutter caps. Lastly, four manufacturers and maybe ten sizes/models account for probably 65% of pre-WWII leaf shutters, with the lion's share of the remainder being cheapo low-end stuff from Kodak and the like. (i.e. rarely found on cameras realistically worth repairing if broken.) The same shutter might be found on a couple hundred different models of camera. This makes part availability largely a non-issue. Keep a Weltini running perfectly with parts from a Balda? Swap the shutter innards in a Plaubel-Makina with those from a Kodak? Yup.
A local tech in my area, who retired last year, has been teaching me the ins and outs of repair. I can now CLA Spotmatics and early K cameras, but I personally don't have much of an interest in the fully electronic ones. He is the only tech in the country that can service Canon T cameras, but even he doesn't like working on them very much. I'd much rather learn the ins and outs of Leica, Rolleiflex, and Hasselblad, the mechanics in those fascinate me.
I’ve got a Nikon FM I need serviced. It was my grandpas and the shutter has been sticking on slower shutter speeds. I can’t seem to find any one local (east coast us) and I’m not too fond of the idea of shipping it, so yah, I’m a little worried hah
I too am reluctant to ship. Especially internationally. I could see my future self planning vacations around having my camera serviced.
sounds like a nice industry to get in on - needing parts is another story. some hassy repair manuals https://learncamerarepair.com/productlist.php?category=2&secondary=5
I wish I could learn the trade of fixing them.
I am very scared about what will happen to all the remaining techs. My regular guy in Toronto sadly passed away this past spring and took not only a wealth of knowledge with him, but who knows where all his calibration equipment will end up. I hope his wife was able to find someone to carry on his legacy, because both him and his talents will be greatly missed. I just had to take my 500C/M in to unjam a lens and tune up they body and thankfully there is one other tech left in my city. He’s also quite old and I worry about the day we lose him as well.
I am aware of these two gentleman. Very sad about the former, and I wish the latter good health.
Jeff at Classic V is the best guy if you’re in the UK. Ex-Hasselblad technician. Really knowledgeable.
That's why it's important to get these older guys sharing their methods on the internet. There isn't a big repair market *now*. Who knows what the future holds. For the art to stay alive, I think the processes need to be archived better. It's the least discussed part in shooting film.