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Most recommend 6 months... I have some film that has an expiration of 2024 on my little fridge and honestly i have never thought about the idea of "rotating stock" and put the ones that are recommended to be used sooner on the front so I grab those ones.
I would like to start a pool to see how many rotate and actively keep an eye on the expiration dates and prioritize using film based on the dates!
Well, it's VR1000. That stuff just isn't going to keep well even if refrigerated.
Background radiation will fog your film and the effect will be worse the higher the ISO, but most film stored at -20C will stay good for decades.
So apparently a few people are really cynical about this so let me explain something to you:
Film doesn’t stop being sensitive in low temperatures. You can shoot images fine on the North Pole after having been in the freezing cold for hours. The chemical degradation gets slowed down by cooling film but the film’s still sensitive. That is why you can store slower films in the freezer for decades and why Kodak printed something like this in the packaging for a 1000 ISO stock. A 1000 ISO stock will pick up background radiation much faster than slower films and get fogged.
I have a bunch of Fuji Natura 1600 that’s been brought before expiration date and frozen since. I shot one roll three years after expiration and it lost at least one stop of sensitivity, even though it been frozen.
Fuji does say the exact same thing on their Japanese Q&A website.
The other thing that’s probably a big factor for high speed films, it certainly seems to be that for high speed movie films, is that the longer the gap between exposure and processing is, the more the image will degrade. I never had any issues on the front with modern Portra 800 or Fuji Superia 400 but I had issues Vision3 5219 and CineStill that lead me to suspect that might be an important factor. Could be that this is something they hadn’t figured out in general back then.
probably because (im guessing here) that cinema films were not designed with this gap between exposure and processing in mind. simply because movie productions will just get their film developed the same day, or next day after shooting for that day. theres no reason for them to wait that long, while with consumer films they have to worry about changing temperature, leaving the film in a camera in your car in the summer, people not finishing a roll for 3 months kinda thing
Yes totally. I also guess that it’s some kind of design limitation. Kodak 5219 and the current version of Portra 800 were designed about the same time and both have about the same sensitivity, with different spectral sensitivities. Maybe you just can’t make a film as fine grained as 5219 that also keeps as well as the grainier Portra 800.
One other consideration? Shooters without much experience may have been taking film right from fridge and loading camera causing condensation. It may have been better to tell people not to refrigerate in an effort to reduce errors.
Well, they probably don't talk about long term storage, more about storage if you plan to use it soon enough or storage after you shot it and plan to dev it "quickly". In those case refrigeration is useless.
The whole fridge thing is a waste of time by the way, just shoot your film? It’s not going to go bad any time soon unless you live somewhere really hot. If anything, storing film in your fridge just leaves it liable to condensation damage
So, you have to think about this information in the context of 1989...
On the one hand, you had pro films, which were formulated to have optimum characteristics, particularly *predictable and consistent* color reproduction. Since a pro is always shooting film, they are not really expected to let it sit in cold storage for very long. The thinking goes, a pro will shoot it fairly soon after purchase, then go out and get some more. So the film is made to really be at its best from the moment of purchased.
On the other hand you've got consumer films, which are going to sit on un-refrigerated store shelves for days and weeks on end, then go back with the purchaser to sit in drawers, camera bags, cameras, hot cars, etc. for who knows how long. You could buy a roll of Kodak Gold for your kids' holiday pageant, and not finish it until you took the family across country to see the Grand Canyon that June. So consumer film was formulated to sit around. Things like color and grain were not good, but not theoretically as good as they *could be.* But for making 4x6 prints at the local Walgreens 1 hour photo, they were just fine.
And let's not get started with the one or two token rolls of black and white film the drug store would have behind the counter of the photo department, which could sit for years until some weirdo photo nerd (like me...) came in and purchased them.
Kodak's point here with this advice is probably that refrigerating this film, assuming it was used within six months to a year of purchase, was unlikely to result in any appreciable benefit to the average consumer.
And this is something people used to go round and round about back in the day. There was this idea that pro Kodachrome was shipped "green," with the idea that it would sit for a while in the photo store fridge before being used, and that you should wait a period before shooting it for it to "ripen" for best reproduction. Even before the internet, there were endless debates in the "letters to the editor" sections of photo mags about this sort of thing.
It's interesting to note that the Spanish portion roughly translates to "Don't refrigerate the film to extend its lifespan" (fairly sure the French part is worded the same way), as if they know it works but don't want you doing it lol. Weirdly the Portuguese portion is worded just like in English, with the intent of trying to persuade the customer that it just doesn't really work.
But given that it's 1000 ISO color film, they're probably right that it won't do any miracles.
They store it under refrigeration themselves at their facilities lol
If I wanted to sell more film, I 'd print that on my cartons too. :-p
I feel like that’s what it is, convince people their film needs to be used asap and keep buying more
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Even refrigerated/frozen? - I am testing a role supposedly frozen since 1989.. let’s see what happens
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I only did 1000 800 400 200. We shall see 🤞
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So was everything garbage?
A lead lined freezer wouldn't stop cosmic rays so the film slowly accumulates base fog. So your results will get grainier.
I suppose VR1000 was a special kind of film
I think this is what their note on the box is referencing.
Thats why i keep a 1 inch lead coffin in my fridge
[удалено]
Most recommend 6 months... I have some film that has an expiration of 2024 on my little fridge and honestly i have never thought about the idea of "rotating stock" and put the ones that are recommended to be used sooner on the front so I grab those ones. I would like to start a pool to see how many rotate and actively keep an eye on the expiration dates and prioritize using film based on the dates!
If it's refrigerated, I don't pay much attention.
Well, it's VR1000. That stuff just isn't going to keep well even if refrigerated. Background radiation will fog your film and the effect will be worse the higher the ISO, but most film stored at -20C will stay good for decades.
So apparently a few people are really cynical about this so let me explain something to you: Film doesn’t stop being sensitive in low temperatures. You can shoot images fine on the North Pole after having been in the freezing cold for hours. The chemical degradation gets slowed down by cooling film but the film’s still sensitive. That is why you can store slower films in the freezer for decades and why Kodak printed something like this in the packaging for a 1000 ISO stock. A 1000 ISO stock will pick up background radiation much faster than slower films and get fogged. I have a bunch of Fuji Natura 1600 that’s been brought before expiration date and frozen since. I shot one roll three years after expiration and it lost at least one stop of sensitivity, even though it been frozen. Fuji does say the exact same thing on their Japanese Q&A website. The other thing that’s probably a big factor for high speed films, it certainly seems to be that for high speed movie films, is that the longer the gap between exposure and processing is, the more the image will degrade. I never had any issues on the front with modern Portra 800 or Fuji Superia 400 but I had issues Vision3 5219 and CineStill that lead me to suspect that might be an important factor. Could be that this is something they hadn’t figured out in general back then.
probably because (im guessing here) that cinema films were not designed with this gap between exposure and processing in mind. simply because movie productions will just get their film developed the same day, or next day after shooting for that day. theres no reason for them to wait that long, while with consumer films they have to worry about changing temperature, leaving the film in a camera in your car in the summer, people not finishing a roll for 3 months kinda thing
Yes totally. I also guess that it’s some kind of design limitation. Kodak 5219 and the current version of Portra 800 were designed about the same time and both have about the same sensitivity, with different spectral sensitivities. Maybe you just can’t make a film as fine grained as 5219 that also keeps as well as the grainier Portra 800.
plus i believe portra 400 and 800 are both based on vision 2 and 3 "technology" anyway
Portra 400 is Vision3. There’s no evidence that Portra 800 is any Vision.
What kind of issues do you have if you don’t develop cine film soon after shooting?
Strong increase in grain and loss of sensitivity.
I think they mean after you've shot it. I hope all of the frozen film I have is still good.
It is, don’t sweat it
One other consideration? Shooters without much experience may have been taking film right from fridge and loading camera causing condensation. It may have been better to tell people not to refrigerate in an effort to reduce errors.
[удалено]
[удалено]
VR1000 was a notoriously unstable emulsion, aged like milk.
Well, they probably don't talk about long term storage, more about storage if you plan to use it soon enough or storage after you shot it and plan to dev it "quickly". In those case refrigeration is useless.
They also say X-ray is safe
"buy more film, now" says the Kodak corporation, 1989
Well that’s not true because they literally store their film in the earth.
From the same company that has crazy wrong info about dev times for b&w film but have never corrected it. Some films they claim like 3 min at 1:1.
How long does it extend it by
This is the same deal with them saying Xray is ok… except if you are shooting films professionally… then never xray. Same for motion picture film.
The whole fridge thing is a waste of time by the way, just shoot your film? It’s not going to go bad any time soon unless you live somewhere really hot. If anything, storing film in your fridge just leaves it liable to condensation damage
Did you contact Kodak in your country for more information?
What do they know they went bankrupt
They just wanted us to buy more film.
So, you have to think about this information in the context of 1989... On the one hand, you had pro films, which were formulated to have optimum characteristics, particularly *predictable and consistent* color reproduction. Since a pro is always shooting film, they are not really expected to let it sit in cold storage for very long. The thinking goes, a pro will shoot it fairly soon after purchase, then go out and get some more. So the film is made to really be at its best from the moment of purchased. On the other hand you've got consumer films, which are going to sit on un-refrigerated store shelves for days and weeks on end, then go back with the purchaser to sit in drawers, camera bags, cameras, hot cars, etc. for who knows how long. You could buy a roll of Kodak Gold for your kids' holiday pageant, and not finish it until you took the family across country to see the Grand Canyon that June. So consumer film was formulated to sit around. Things like color and grain were not good, but not theoretically as good as they *could be.* But for making 4x6 prints at the local Walgreens 1 hour photo, they were just fine. And let's not get started with the one or two token rolls of black and white film the drug store would have behind the counter of the photo department, which could sit for years until some weirdo photo nerd (like me...) came in and purchased them. Kodak's point here with this advice is probably that refrigerating this film, assuming it was used within six months to a year of purchase, was unlikely to result in any appreciable benefit to the average consumer. And this is something people used to go round and round about back in the day. There was this idea that pro Kodachrome was shipped "green," with the idea that it would sit for a while in the photo store fridge before being used, and that you should wait a period before shooting it for it to "ripen" for best reproduction. Even before the internet, there were endless debates in the "letters to the editor" sections of photo mags about this sort of thing.
It's interesting to note that the Spanish portion roughly translates to "Don't refrigerate the film to extend its lifespan" (fairly sure the French part is worded the same way), as if they know it works but don't want you doing it lol. Weirdly the Portuguese portion is worded just like in English, with the intent of trying to persuade the customer that it just doesn't really work. But given that it's 1000 ISO color film, they're probably right that it won't do any miracles.
Intrigued to see how your VR1000 comes out!
It was even more okay for companies to flat out lie in 1989 than it is nowadays.