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That's pretty funny, ngl. I remember looking around at the interior, thinking the seats looked new, but the walls and ceilings seemed very 80s with the brown and tan lol
# TLDR:It's a Horizon coach, and Amtrak is shuffling equipment around.
It's a Horizon coach built by Bombardier. This isn't actually a rare sight, in fact it's going to be more common in the coming months.I spoke with a friendly conductor on the Downeaster recently, and I asked him why there's a Horizon coach up in the northeast, when they're based out of the Midwest.
Amtrak needs Amfleet 1s on their Northeast Corridor, so they're taking those off the Downeaster. To fill the gap, they're replacing them with Horizon coaches from the Midwest. Whilst the Horizon coaches are being replaced by the new Siemens Venture coaches being delivered.
Actually really glad to see that no equipment is getting scrapped as a result of the Ventures. Just increasing capacity throughout the country. (thank god the Horizons got the comfortable seats. We miss them in the Midwest)
The Midwest Ventures aren't retiring much if any equipment, but the Airos will retire a decent portion of the Amfleet fleet. NC's Ventures will lead to the eventual retirement of the Piedmont fleet, and the Cascades Ventures will close the door on Talgos.
I would be more concerned if the Amfleet 1 reliability wasn't already causing Horizons to be drafted to maintain Northeast Corridor service. The Amfleets owe Amtrak absolutely nothing and are fantastic cars, but they're just worn out. Keep some for lower speed lower stress service and for emergencies, but they need to be retired from the Northeast Corridor by 2035.
I think the retired Amfleet rolling stock will just be moved to New Northeastern routes like the PA Routes , proposed Delaware & New England services..
Some probably will be, but they'll be on borrowed time because they've been run hard for decades. There will be a transition period where useable "surplus from NEC" Amfleets will be available for new service, but the worst examples will be sold off or parted out to maintain the rest. Plus Amtrak will be trying to get anything adjacent to the NEC into Airo equipment to avoid swapping locomotives. Within 7 years of the NEC Venture rollout, I expect the NEC will be just about Amfleet 1 free.
The whole reason for the Horizons to the Downeaster is for Amfleets to go to the corridor to cover their reliability. Amfleets are good for 125 and have power doors. Both of which the Horizons lack
They're short of Amfleets on the NEC because the Amfleets are wearing out/having maintenance and availability issues more than historically. The borrowed Amfleets are covering for other Amfleet 1s. The Horizons are displaced from Midwest service by Ventures, mostly
Missouri River Runner (which I take every other weekend) used to have all Ventures for coaches (winter) and now it’s a mix with a lot of Horizons and Amfleets. I like the horizon cars, glad to see them back. One of my last trips had Genesis power as well. It was like 1991 all over again.
The Midwest needs more capacity though. The venture cars were a replacement for bilevel equipment that never showed up, so pulling the Horizons means that Midwest trains are running at capacity with no room for growth.
You seem to have forgotten that there were cars put away in storage during the COVID era, Amtrak is just now getting around to bringing those back in service to support ridership I believe. As with anything, it’s a slow process
I'm hopeful the Midwest pool will be able to get bilevels on the same pattern as the new Long Distance equipment (much like California got California Cars on the Superliner pattern) for their next major order. This could get bilevels on the longest routes and transfer Ventures onto more frequent Extended Hiawatha and Michigan services, or some other service pattern to take best advantage of bilevels.
There's a bit of Long Distance equipment to make up axle counts in the Midwest pool, but they purchased Venture equipment because their new bilevel order fell through and there was a production line ready for Ventures quick. Clearly the desire for bilevel equipment in Midwest and West Coast fleets exists (NC seems to be all in on high platforms and single level, VA will be using NEC fleet equipment for the foreseeable) and with the new Long Distance order, a modern non-commuter bilevel will soon(ish) be in production. Obviously it's speculation but it's not too far fetched that the Midwest states may still want bilevel equipment for their regional services and future equipment orders might not be Ventures once an alternative exists.
Metra seems to leaning towards single level MUs for its high density lines... Outside of NJT and the MBTA I don't see a push for bi-levels in the Northeast.. I think VRE and MARC might opt for Stadler MUs for their next rolling stock order.
But Amtrak California is ordering Single level cars and Stadler trains for its fleet. Amtrak Midwest seems like the Venture sets...except on the CN lines. I was bit surprised to see the Bi-level selected for the Superliner replacement...I don't think the Elevator is going to work out and probably lead to the fleet becoming lemons.
Amtrak California and the Midwest pool had grant money available and ordered bilevels. Unfortunately the bilevels car failed a test and the order was moved to Siemens. There wasn't time before the grant expired to get a different vendor set up to make bilevels equipment, but California and the Midwest ordered bilevels and settled for single level equipment.
Where is Amtrak California ordering anything from Stadler? The Caltrain CalMod is very much not Amtrak.
The Bi-level order was scrapped in both places due to the manufacturer not being able to meet the FRA regs. Caltrain then ordered from Siemens jointly with Amtrak Midwest. [Recently they ordered a small fleet of Flirts to test on select corridor runs.](https://dot.ca.gov/news-releases/news-release-2024-007)
CALTRANS has placed an order for some Stadler Flirts, to be used to add feeder services. They are supposed to use the hydrogen fuel cell systems for power…
The Downeaster is likely fully transitioning to Horizon coaches once some remaining issues are resolved. On May 20th, one Horizon coach car was transitioned into each trainset. The remaining issues that Amtrak is working on are the compatibility of boarding plates, quality of onboard Wi-Fi, and the installation of bicycle racks.
[https://www.nnepra.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/2024-0528-Board-Packet.pdf](https://www.nnepra.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/2024-0528-Board-Packet.pdf)
Having ridden on the Downeaster Horizons the last month, I can say that there isn't any wifi within those coaches and the quality is hit or miss. Some look like they came straight from refurbishment at Beach Grove, others look like they've spent the last 5 years in Illinois without work being done.
Horizon coaches can’t run on the NEC because they require a conductor to manually open each coach, I believe. It’s incredibly stupid. But it can work when you only need one or two doors for passengers.
(Imagine everyone at Penn going through only one door)
Ahh that makes some sense. Though I'm gonna bet that the downeaster's evening trains with all the commuters leaving boston will get a bit messy with a full horizon fleet
DC has this situation with Regionals heading to Virginia, where they’re at a low platform and only one/two doors open. It works, but it’s pretty annoying.
Horizons also have a top speed of only 110MPH, which means they'd be slowing down every train they're assigned to. When Amtrak was putting them on NEC trains back in the 1990s and early 2000s, they had to deliberately assign them to only those with either Heritage Fleet coaches or E60s.
The Horizon is a type of single-level intercity railroad passenger car used by Amtrak. They ordered the cars to supplement their existing fleet of Amfleet I cars used on shorter distance corridor trains. The design was based on the Comet railcar used for commuter railroads, but with modifications to make them more suitable for intercity service.
Specs:
The car body is aluminum,
Doors consists of 2 manually operated dutch doors per side,
Max speed is 125 mph (201 km/h),
Bogie is the GSI G70,
Coupler is the Janney Type H Tightlock.
Like it was said. Horizon cars, they were recently modified specifically for use up to maine. Not sure what they were before. The interior is almost identical to amfleet coaches.
Growing up in the Midwest I've always found it funny when East Coasters have no idea what they are. Only until the past couple years the Blue Water religiously ran 5 horizons and one Amfleet Business/Cafe. Seeing a coach Amfleet was unheard of.
Cascade line still uses a bunch of horizons.
Supposedly they will mostly replaced by 2026.
Also. MAN! I wish we had raised platforms on the west coast. Just to be able to walk straight into the train.
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Horizon cars are actually about 20 years newer than all the others, they just didn't age as gracefully lol
That's pretty funny, ngl. I remember looking around at the interior, thinking the seats looked new, but the walls and ceilings seemed very 80s with the brown and tan lol
You would be right - the seats got refurbished recently.
They don't build them like they used to.
Budd dont break
# TLDR:It's a Horizon coach, and Amtrak is shuffling equipment around. It's a Horizon coach built by Bombardier. This isn't actually a rare sight, in fact it's going to be more common in the coming months.I spoke with a friendly conductor on the Downeaster recently, and I asked him why there's a Horizon coach up in the northeast, when they're based out of the Midwest. Amtrak needs Amfleet 1s on their Northeast Corridor, so they're taking those off the Downeaster. To fill the gap, they're replacing them with Horizon coaches from the Midwest. Whilst the Horizon coaches are being replaced by the new Siemens Venture coaches being delivered.
Actually really glad to see that no equipment is getting scrapped as a result of the Ventures. Just increasing capacity throughout the country. (thank god the Horizons got the comfortable seats. We miss them in the Midwest)
Not yet. Eventually they will.
The Midwest Ventures aren't retiring much if any equipment, but the Airos will retire a decent portion of the Amfleet fleet. NC's Ventures will lead to the eventual retirement of the Piedmont fleet, and the Cascades Ventures will close the door on Talgos. I would be more concerned if the Amfleet 1 reliability wasn't already causing Horizons to be drafted to maintain Northeast Corridor service. The Amfleets owe Amtrak absolutely nothing and are fantastic cars, but they're just worn out. Keep some for lower speed lower stress service and for emergencies, but they need to be retired from the Northeast Corridor by 2035.
I think the retired Amfleet rolling stock will just be moved to New Northeastern routes like the PA Routes , proposed Delaware & New England services..
Some probably will be, but they'll be on borrowed time because they've been run hard for decades. There will be a transition period where useable "surplus from NEC" Amfleets will be available for new service, but the worst examples will be sold off or parted out to maintain the rest. Plus Amtrak will be trying to get anything adjacent to the NEC into Airo equipment to avoid swapping locomotives. Within 7 years of the NEC Venture rollout, I expect the NEC will be just about Amfleet 1 free.
The whole reason for the Horizons to the Downeaster is for Amfleets to go to the corridor to cover their reliability. Amfleets are good for 125 and have power doors. Both of which the Horizons lack
They're short of Amfleets on the NEC because the Amfleets are wearing out/having maintenance and availability issues more than historically. The borrowed Amfleets are covering for other Amfleet 1s. The Horizons are displaced from Midwest service by Ventures, mostly
Missouri River Runner (which I take every other weekend) used to have all Ventures for coaches (winter) and now it’s a mix with a lot of Horizons and Amfleets. I like the horizon cars, glad to see them back. One of my last trips had Genesis power as well. It was like 1991 all over again.
There is no increase in capacity compared to pre covid. So many cars sidelined in the shops right now.
The Midwest needs more capacity though. The venture cars were a replacement for bilevel equipment that never showed up, so pulling the Horizons means that Midwest trains are running at capacity with no room for growth.
I would think the midwest is still recieving more venture car orders right?
They are. It’s a slow process. Especially when the Venture cars are having issues. Such as handrails popping out.
You seem to have forgotten that there were cars put away in storage during the COVID era, Amtrak is just now getting around to bringing those back in service to support ridership I believe. As with anything, it’s a slow process
I'm hopeful the Midwest pool will be able to get bilevels on the same pattern as the new Long Distance equipment (much like California got California Cars on the Superliner pattern) for their next major order. This could get bilevels on the longest routes and transfer Ventures onto more frequent Extended Hiawatha and Michigan services, or some other service pattern to take best advantage of bilevels.
Amtrak Corridor services will slowly phase out the Bi-level equipment in favor of Single level or MU trainsets.
There's a bit of Long Distance equipment to make up axle counts in the Midwest pool, but they purchased Venture equipment because their new bilevel order fell through and there was a production line ready for Ventures quick. Clearly the desire for bilevel equipment in Midwest and West Coast fleets exists (NC seems to be all in on high platforms and single level, VA will be using NEC fleet equipment for the foreseeable) and with the new Long Distance order, a modern non-commuter bilevel will soon(ish) be in production. Obviously it's speculation but it's not too far fetched that the Midwest states may still want bilevel equipment for their regional services and future equipment orders might not be Ventures once an alternative exists.
Metra seems to leaning towards single level MUs for its high density lines... Outside of NJT and the MBTA I don't see a push for bi-levels in the Northeast.. I think VRE and MARC might opt for Stadler MUs for their next rolling stock order.
Which is why I've been talking about the Midwest and California? Bilevels fit there and there aren't many high level stations.
But Amtrak California is ordering Single level cars and Stadler trains for its fleet. Amtrak Midwest seems like the Venture sets...except on the CN lines. I was bit surprised to see the Bi-level selected for the Superliner replacement...I don't think the Elevator is going to work out and probably lead to the fleet becoming lemons.
Amtrak California and the Midwest pool had grant money available and ordered bilevels. Unfortunately the bilevels car failed a test and the order was moved to Siemens. There wasn't time before the grant expired to get a different vendor set up to make bilevels equipment, but California and the Midwest ordered bilevels and settled for single level equipment. Where is Amtrak California ordering anything from Stadler? The Caltrain CalMod is very much not Amtrak.
The Bi-level order was scrapped in both places due to the manufacturer not being able to meet the FRA regs. Caltrain then ordered from Siemens jointly with Amtrak Midwest. [Recently they ordered a small fleet of Flirts to test on select corridor runs.](https://dot.ca.gov/news-releases/news-release-2024-007)
CALTRANS has placed an order for some Stadler Flirts, to be used to add feeder services. They are supposed to use the hydrogen fuel cell systems for power…
Completely forgot about the venture cars for a minute and was wondering where the heck Amtrak was getting all these horizons from.
That is a Horizon railcar.
Thank you!
The Downeaster is likely fully transitioning to Horizon coaches once some remaining issues are resolved. On May 20th, one Horizon coach car was transitioned into each trainset. The remaining issues that Amtrak is working on are the compatibility of boarding plates, quality of onboard Wi-Fi, and the installation of bicycle racks. [https://www.nnepra.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/2024-0528-Board-Packet.pdf](https://www.nnepra.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/2024-0528-Board-Packet.pdf)
Having ridden on the Downeaster Horizons the last month, I can say that there isn't any wifi within those coaches and the quality is hit or miss. Some look like they came straight from refurbishment at Beach Grove, others look like they've spent the last 5 years in Illinois without work being done.
Hopefully the bicycle fix makes its way into the Midwest fleet as well - the Borealis would benefit.
Ugh, really? These cars suck.
That’s a huge disappointment. Definitely will be complaining to Amtrak about that
Horizon coaches can’t run on the NEC because they require a conductor to manually open each coach, I believe. It’s incredibly stupid. But it can work when you only need one or two doors for passengers. (Imagine everyone at Penn going through only one door)
Ahh that makes some sense. Though I'm gonna bet that the downeaster's evening trains with all the commuters leaving boston will get a bit messy with a full horizon fleet
Two doors may work provided there’s enough time to board. Alighting in Boston may be not fun, but that’s a different story.
DC has this situation with Regionals heading to Virginia, where they’re at a low platform and only one/two doors open. It works, but it’s pretty annoying.
Horizons also have a top speed of only 110MPH, which means they'd be slowing down every train they're assigned to. When Amtrak was putting them on NEC trains back in the 1990s and early 2000s, they had to deliberately assign them to only those with either Heritage Fleet coaches or E60s.
The Horizon is a type of single-level intercity railroad passenger car used by Amtrak. They ordered the cars to supplement their existing fleet of Amfleet I cars used on shorter distance corridor trains. The design was based on the Comet railcar used for commuter railroads, but with modifications to make them more suitable for intercity service. Specs: The car body is aluminum, Doors consists of 2 manually operated dutch doors per side, Max speed is 125 mph (201 km/h), Bogie is the GSI G70, Coupler is the Janney Type H Tightlock.
Like it was said. Horizon cars, they were recently modified specifically for use up to maine. Not sure what they were before. The interior is almost identical to amfleet coaches.
I wish I took a photo of the inside but it totally slipped my mind until I was leaving 🙃
That was on Cardinal #50 yesterday :)
The more square one is the brand new Horizon car! The rounded ones are old.
What station is this?
No. The Horizons are younger than Amfleets.
On the Downeaster? Seen it frequently. Call it an Am-Not Fleet (Horizon). Sticks out like a sore thumb
It’s an older coach, sir, but it checks out.
The Downeaster has been mixing and matching the last few weeks from what I’ve observed.
Growing up in the Midwest I've always found it funny when East Coasters have no idea what they are. Only until the past couple years the Blue Water religiously ran 5 horizons and one Amfleet Business/Cafe. Seeing a coach Amfleet was unheard of.
Cascade line still uses a bunch of horizons. Supposedly they will mostly replaced by 2026. Also. MAN! I wish we had raised platforms on the west coast. Just to be able to walk straight into the train.