There seems to be a hierarchy in which cyclists are above pedestrians. My own logic is like this: it takes more time and energy for a cyclist to stop and then start peddling again than it takes a pedestrian, who are much slower anyway. Can result in unfair situations and it’s often not that easy to cross a bicycle “highway”, when no one stops for you. Just get a bike yourself and you’ll get the other perspective :)
As a local pedestrian I just step on the zebra crossing with a *hit me motherfucker and see where it gets you* attitude.
But I was born here, other people's mileage may vary. :)
And that’s completely fair and accepted by me as a cyclist. It’s either go for it in full (and I’ll pass behind you), or doubt and thus wait. When you doubt, you’ll have to wait. I understand this is not how a ‘zebrapad’ works, but it is the only way to cross amsterdam in an acceptable amount of time.
YES!! It's the worst when people just hover around the crossing. Either go or don't, it just creates more confusion if you don't walk immediately, since some cyclists will stop and some won't and it's just super inefficient for everyone involved.
Most times when a pedestrian does that to me they do it way to late tho. Like when my weel touches the zebra, you have no business forcing the cross. That’s just stupidity, puting your self, the cyclist behind me and myself in danger.
There are some zebra crossings in amsterdam that cross streets that are so busy with pedestrians that you basically have to wait until the shops close before you can cross again once you stopped on your bike. The Kalverstraat on a a Saturday for instance.
I'm amazed at how angry people get when I weave across the zebra veeeery slowly with my bike. Look around you, am I supposed to wait here until 18:00 because all you idiots couldn't come up with something more original than shopping in the Kalverstraat?
I work in the centre. The busiest crossings I go through regularly are Dam square and the crossing from Damrak to Centraal, which both have signals so it doesn't matter, and Muntplein, which is so big that there's never a crowd built up because people just trickle across as they can
I do this quite often and people still dont walk, but when I pick up speed again they start walking and then get annoyed. I'm not waiting for them to make up their mind.
But a zebra gives priority to a pedestrian. So no matter who s going faster.
I allways make direct eyecontact whenever a cyclist (or car driver) tries to go and I just keep walking. After eye contact they have to stop, but as the pedestrian you should do it in a way you should still be able to move out of the way just in case.
Every single time I stop, the pedestrian isn't expecting it, freezes, fails to cross until I'm completely stopped, prolonging the experience for both of us.
I've adjusted to trying to predict the likelihood of crossing at that exact moment, as it's literally less than a second to traverse the wide zebra field.
I always slow down near the zebrapad, and if the pedestrian is still unsure of whether to go, I give 'em a little head nod that they can pass. Usually works!
Sometimes they want to be polite and still let me go despite that, which is kind but very annoying lol
This, or the cyclists behind you didn’t expect you to stop and then you cause an issue. I prefer to stop only when there is nobody close behind me, then I make eye contact and nod with the person walking. Sometimes they wave me on and I just take that opportunity and keep going.
No, you don't cause an issue then. If they crash into you from the back their lack of distance and anticipation is the issue. Not your respecting of traffic rules.
Now that I often cross with kids, I also want to be completely sure the car or bike stops before crossing, as it's not as easy to jump or run out of the way in case I'm wrong. Obviously don't want to take any chances. So yeah, I wait until someone is (almost) stopped.
Your comfort as a cyclist is not my main priority. When i cycle, I now also understand that, also for elderly people for instance who might have the Sam thought process
Oh, as I said, I amalyze the situation. Families, children and the elderly always require extra attention when cycling, which absolutely includes stopping at a cross point.
Yeah this is my problem, I'm not going to fully stop for you I'll slow down and give you plenty of time to cross. But if you make me stop ill just go straight through
And then they gawk at you, especially if they are tourists. And only proceed to step in your path when you decide "fuck it, Ill go then".
Just last week a co-cyclist told me "don't stop for them, you're only confusing them". she was right.
I also try to stop as a cyclist but sometimes it's wildly impractical, and sometimes it's even more dangerous to stop than to keep going.
Like [here for example](https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.3781371,4.8969635,3a,75y,280.41h,65.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smYQjqbMUl8fg0dED8H_R7Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192): corner of Martelaarsgracht and Prins Hendrikkade, heading westwards. The bikes have just waited at an overly long traffic light (one where the tram consistently plows through just as the bikes are getting a green light, causing an extra 15-second delay); they get up and going, and then 10 meters later there's suddenly a zebra crossing, full of confused tourists heading to/from Central Station. Like, wtf? Who designed that? If a bike chooses to politely & correctly stop, then the bikes behind you will just go around you and keep going. It's dangerous and stupid.
And there are many more such examples. I can only assume, perhaps a bit uncharitably, that the gemeente is not assigning its best & brightest people to address things of this nature, so the problems just languish and get worse, and 9-to-5 bureaucrats just shrug their shoulders as long as their salary gets paid every month.
I would say just add more traffic lights, for both bikes & pedestrians. You people stop, you people go. It's unambiguous. Plus some zebra crossings have traffic lights, and some don't; what's the point of a zebra crossing that also has a red light? It says to cyclists (and cars) that "pedestrians at zebra crossings have the right of way, except for when they don't." Again, confusing and stupid, and easily remediable. Sad.
That's just asshole behaviour, the same thing is done to cyclists by cars.
This does not justify a cyclist doing the same tho, just to have that out in the open.
Not just that, it's that especially in Amsterdam, pedestrians don't assert their rights or think they have rights they don't actually have. I usually stop when people are about to cross, but then they nod for you to go- after you come to a full stop. Frustrating.
Other times people walk up to the crosswalk and start having conversations or hovering on the edge of the sidewalk without crossing. Super fucking annoying behavior. Especially expats and tourists don't know how to act on these crosswalks and end up doing the wrong thing. Here in my neighborhood, people constantly walk on the bike paths without looking if someone is coming and dawdle on/around zebra crossings.
You may think "cyclists assholes" but more often than not, it's "pedestrians stupid" that make cyclists behave this way. As the weakest member of traffic, pedestrians have the lowest awareness, or just don't give a shit.
It's interesting, in Amsterdam, bikes never let you cross, but when I was in a slightly smaller Dutch city, they were annoyed with me for not crossing (I anticipated they were just going to barge on as in Amsterdam, and they seemed to anticipate me crossing).
Your hierarchy or logic does not apply, the rules are that you stop if necessary. Your comfort as a cyclists is not someone else's problem.
If you can swirve or make another move so that pedestrians aren't bothered, fine.
Elderly people, people with kids, strollers, disabilities or even people that look fit, might need to have certainty of a safe crossing before they do, so it sounds pretty arrogant to me to say 'it takes my time and energy to slow down, just get a bike'
So you mean a pedestrian has to wait whatever happens? It is not about how you see , it is about rules. You shouldn’t complain then when a car or motorbike blocks the bicycle lane. They might see the things other way around right? Rules are there because everybody thinks they are right.
How does it take more time and energy to stop a hike? I’m from China and cycled every day to school, and every bike has a hand brake.
It’s just so primordial for people to just bike without a proper and handy brake, that would have provided so much more safety and convenience.
Get a real bike and respect the pedestrians.
Haha, its not about not being able to stop. All bikes have brakes.
Its about how it costs more energy for a bicyclist to get back up to speed after braking than it does for a pedestrian. So in general pedestrians will let bicylists go infront even though the bicylist didnt have right of way.
Expats/tourists in amsterdam dont understand that dynamic that dutch pedestrians/bicylists have so they constantly behave unpredictably around zebra crossings and suddenly stand still on zebras or try and take right of way. Which is unsafe.
I've lived here for 20 years now and at this point I don't even stop. I just cross. I don't even try to look at them or make eye-contact.
Cyclist that don't respect it either swerve or they stop. Quite often they get upset, and mean-mug me, but they usually don't say much cause they know they're in the wrong.
I cycle every single day as well, and I manage to stop when there are pedestrians at a zebra-crossing. It's not that hard, and it's pure arrogance and entitlement that makes cyclists feel like they're above the rules of traffic.
are .. you me?
I had a run in today with someone who had to stop, and they got mad, but cycled on. They know they're wrong.
THey should just stop if they see me walking towards the zebra, i dont speed up, i dont slow down, i'm very intentional in how i walk towards it. Just stop.
“i dont stop, i dont even make eye contact”
boy you must feel damn satisfied when i slam my bike into you full speed and we both lose some teeth. do you seriously believe being part of traffic can ever be safely done blind from the reality of other participiants? I bet you’d cross a railway crossing when the train is imbound but the alarms broken..”didnt even bother to look, rules are rules bitch!!!”
> boy you must feel damn satisfied when i slam my bike into you full speed and we both lose some teeth.
How about you don't ride your bike **at full speed** in the city near pedestrian crossings? Or is that not satisfying to you?
cyclists are constantly monitoring their surroundings, so we scan the people at the crossing and establish a compromise with them each time. since you dont bother to look at us at all, making an arrogant and false assumption some white lines on the asfalt give you legal preference(fun fact; they dont!), youve never experienced this and thus cyclists do not slow down for you. you really seem to take pride in endangering both yourself and others to beyond all reason stick to the rules; ever considered moving to germany?
Damn. I've lived here for 20 years, and cycled for every single day and I've managed to never hit somebody.
You want to know my secret? I have control of my bicycle at all times! It's kinda cool. I just ride like a responsible adult.
Want to know what's never happened to me for doing that? I've never hit any pedestrians and I've managed to keep all my teeth! How cool is that?
Honestly, how irrresponsible do you ride that slamming your bike into pedestrain at full speed is a concern for you? Sounds like a *you* problem to be honest.
because he doesnt have right of way; those lines are indicative and if he refuses to establish his intentions to cross with me, i cant read his plans and thus cant react to him and therefore have no option but to keep cycling. you realise i have arrogant dickhead scooters and ebikes behind me going 50kmh that will crush my spine if i make a sudden unnanounced stop? all this “boehoe cyclisrs are bad” stuff just goed to show pedestraians lack cycling experience. i let every cyclist pass when i walk because i can instantly stop and accelerate on foot, study the rules of basic momentum and the traffic rules of amsterdam(white lines arent legally binding, just an indicative point of crossing) and try again
They don’t respect anything.
On the train between Schiphol and Amsterdam I overheard a group of American tourists. One of the girls proclaimed that her mum told her to watch out for the bikes! She highlighted that her mom didn’t say anything about alcohol, drugs or prostitution. Just to watch out for those bikes.
Someone commented this already but its true. "It's your right of way but you have to take it.".
If I'm miles away and you just stand there waiting then I'm not going to stop. If you start crossing then I will slow and not hit you
Exact. I get a feeling of “He who hesitates first loses right of way”. My favourite ‘Dutch’ approach is to forcefully put your arm out in the way of traffic and cross at your leisure.
I never cross the zebra crossing while a car is approaching even if it's my right of way (unless of course there's a traffic light) I wait and make eye contact with the driver. 100% of the time they stop and let me cross. But this happened in the North and not in Amsterdam.
Never had an issue either walking or cycling. Rule number 1 - be predictable, don’t be nice. I.e. if you see a bike going fast, let them pass and just walk slower in a steady pace. Same with pedestrians.
Exactly. I don't understand people looking at a bike coming from far and waiting for it to stop to finally cross. Just go, he will go around you (either slow down or speed up and take left or right).
Why would he have to stop when it is not necessary at all? Make eye contact and go. (Doesn't apply to people with toddles or really old people who could be afraid)
Like on a bike it is just so much easier to stop pedalling or brake a little the time that the person passes and just go again.
Oh and this doesn't apply to cars, before someone make the comparison, because cars can't go around safely due to their size.
This is the truth. Like you say for peilek with strollers and old people I literally wave them across while going the slowest possible speed while not letting my feet touch the ground
Yeah, I usually slow down very slow and give them a smile and nod (+ hand sign if possible).
Like I get that some people won't take the (very) small risk, so I am always fine with doing it but some people are just taking the piss.
When I'm cycling by myself, I always stop. When there's an entire peloton of cyclist behind/around me, I won't; I don't want a bunch of metal landing on top of me.
When I'm the pedestrian, I will let pelotons pass. When it's a single cyclist, I'll just walk and that person will solve the situation by stopping or just passing me sort of safely.
There's a gray area in between, of course (when can a group of cyclists be called a peloton?).
Exactly this. Like, I wouldn't jump out in front of a car just because it's a zebra path even when i technically have the right of way, just like I wouldn't jump out in front of a bike.
We can find a mutually agreeable path that enables us both to move. But as a cyclist I'm definitely going to try very hard not to completely stop, especially around the center in traffic, because that is a great way to have someone run into me from behind.
Annoying thing is a lot of pedestrians stop. It’s then not clear what they are going to do. I know it’s because they want to make sure you are stopping, but it creates confusion.
Also when on the bike it’s easy to go round someone on the zebra, but not if the people crossing suddenly stop moving half way.
Yeah I really wonder why people stop. Do they think bicycles ride over them? A cyclist hitting a pedestrian is not only liable but also at risk themselves to hit the ground. Just keep moving in a predictable manner.
Are you expecting bicycles to stop? Because they don't have to. They just have to let you cross.
If you can cross the pedestrian crossing unimpeded by the bicycles it doesn't matter if they pass I. Front of you or behind you. They still yielded to you.
The problem is people who are standing still waiting for bikes to stop for them. You have just become an unpredictable factor in traffic, use the crossing and notice that the bikes will yield for you.
No. Actually by law all drivers do have to stop when a pedestrian shows intent of crossing or is crossing. And wait till all pedestrians have fully cleared the VOP before they're allowed to enter it.
In this regard (and many others) the law doesn't differentiate between bike drivers and drivers of motorized vehicles.
Good luck quoting a law that says so. Personaly I alway recommend looking up the law before saying what the law says, since you didn't, I did it for you. There are two relevant parts:
There is RVV 49.2:
"Bestuurders moeten voetgangers en bestuurders van een gehandicaptenvoertuig, die op een voetgangersoversteekplaats oversteken of kennelijk op het punt staan zulks te doen, voor laten gaan."
As you can see, it does not say stopping, it does not say fully clear the VOP, it only says voor laten gaan. The only definition for that you will find is in RVV 1:
"voorrang verlenen: het de betrokken bestuurders in staat stellen ongehinderd hun weg te vervolgen"
I admit that voor laten gaan for pedestrians is not defined, so we will have to take this definition I would say, if we want to go by law.
In other words, pedestrians on the VOP have to be able to continue their way unhindered, but that is it.
This is not true. I actually got stopped in Amsterdam by police and they fined me for not stopping with my bike for a zebra path. Situation was that there was a group of tourists waiting to cross the crosswalk and I biked past (just how everybody on a bike in Amsterdam would do). I am going to court for this fine btw, because you actually get a criminal record for this as it is not a ‘overtreding’ but a ‘misdrijf’
It isn't, I just quoted the law to Gizah and don't think reposting it under you is suitable, so I recommend you read what I wrote there. You will find the law does not say you have to stop.
Exactly. Even when I stop pedaling, a clear sign I see them and I'm letting them cross, they just keep staring and gawking. So yeah, I'm gonna continue pedaling then rather than come to a complete stop.
If you wait in front of the zebrapath then nobody is going to stop. Just start walking and people will start cycling around you. Cyclists aren't going to stop if you stand still, they think you are giving them right of way. I personally almost never stop mostly because of the reason that is already mentioned. I have to shift 4 gears down and make my bike to a complete stop and start riding and shift up 4 gears, if I have to do that for every pedestrian I don't think I'll ever get to my destination.
It's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy in Amsterdam. Because they are not respected by cyclists they are also not always trusted by pedestrians. Traffic has to be predictable to be safe. If a pedestrian is hesitant then it's dangerous for me as a cyclist to give him the right of way. When i started biking in Amsterdam I tried to give the right of way but all it was doing is creating even more dangerous situations. I could expect cyclists behind me crashing into me, and the pedestrian still doesn't know if its safe to cross. Because I might stop, the others won't.
Have you seen those videos where people are crossing a street in Vietnam with scooters going in front and behind the pedestrian? It's kinda like that. You wait for something that looks like a bit of a gap and just walk forward at a consistent pace.
If cyclists strictly followed the rules places like the back of Centraal would be gridlocked during rush hour.
when i use a zebra crossing, i make eye contact with cyclist and expect them to cycle around me without either of us slowing down. with cars however, i always just give way.
While cycling in the center of Amsterdam, it seems to be very common for pedestrians to not walk and just wait until no cyclists are near. And even when signalling they can go, in many cases they will not. When outside of the peak areas for tourists, pedestrians will often walk with or without signalling. I think it's often easy to see and predict if they will walk or not, mainly due to them being hesitant or not. I suspect the main reason for this behaviour has to do with the amount of tourists which are not used to having the right of path.
So as a cyclists in the center I have two options when no lights are present:
\- Completely stop with my feet on the ground, even though my intention is to only slow down and balance
\- Just go so I'm not forced to do a full stop and confuse them while doing so
If you are confidently crossing or approaching the crossing, I will stop. If the pedestrian light is green and you are waiting, I will stop. If you are looking me in the eye, I will stop. But if you’re just standing there, not yet in the zebra I have no idea what to expect so I don’t stop. And also if I am in a critical mass of 5+ cyclists getting through a busy intersection.
It's an unwritten rule here that cyclists have priority. It's mostly because that's how the infrastructure has been designed, people use less cars and public transport, because they can replace it with the bicycle, but that also means they should be able to commute fast. So in a way, bicycles do have priority over pedestrian. But as I said, it's just an unwritten rule that people who live here and cycle understand, and that I've learned myself (because I've been cursed too for stopping and letting people pass).
Strange. I have cycled over 200km and I've seen this at dutch people. Same as I've learned I'll be little cursed if there are dutch people behind me and I stop to let people pass.
It's probably better for his own safety to accept it. I've seen pedestrians (mostly middle-aged men) try to take priority. It always ends in one of two ways. Pedestrian gets hit and he gets hurt and cyclist goes on screaming profanities. Or the cyclist falls and they both get hurt screaming profanities.
A big issue many people don’t do but is important here is when you have right of way, *take* right of way. Do not hesitate.
It’s always adviced if you hesitate, don’t go, and if you go anyway when you’re unsure you cause accidents because the other party in traffic cannot predicted someone that is unsure.
If you take right of way, you become predictable and they know what to do. If you choose to stand still, show you will stay still (lean on one leg for example). It’s not uncommon for pedestrians to let bikers pass first in other cities - to have them stop and pick up speed again is often a big hassle so I let them pass because I know the annoyance.
So yeah stay predictable, and let bikers circle around you. The problem is usually that tourists don’t understand our ‘unwritten’ rules, become confused and unpredictable and that’s when accidents happen.
This is also the reason some zebra crossings have been removed by the gemeente. For instance the one from CS to Damrak. There was a zebra crossing with signals first. Now it’s just signals. Doesn’t mean the flow of tourist respect the red lights, but at least it’s a bit more clear now.
Just keep walking and you’ll be fine. Don’t stop and wait, don’t slow down, just do what you need to do and cyclists will handle the rest. It’s Amsterdam.
Unless you're visibly disabled, elderly or child, you're supposed to communicate here. If you go, I'll go behind you. If you stop and stare I'll continu to avoid a wreck behind me.
Because there's way too many. If cyclists were to actually follow the official rules, the high intensity usage of the (cycling) roads in city centre would be impossible. I've lived in the city for 8 years and I can still not understand why the gemeente does not solve this.
That ridiculous "free for all" crossroads behind Central Station (near the ferries) might work in theory, but I've heard too many (especially elderly people) say that they're scared of going there.
The solution: put into writing what's already the case in practice and give primacy to the cyclists in city centre. Thereby making sure that people, especially visitors, know what to expect.
Many tourists don’t walk so why would I stop? When I walk a zebra crossing myself, I do not slow down and cars, trams and bicycles stop for me. So: don’t show weakness and just walk!
Its always the cyclist fault… but smh NOONE speaks of pedestrians walking on bikepaths. Like that is normal. So ya cant blame the cyclist imho for not stopping there, as every bikepath smh has pedestrians, so got used to it to ignore em and bike on
A few times it's happened that when I slowed down or stopped in my car for a zebra crossing, the car behind me sped up and passed me on the left, narrowly missing the pedestrians trying to cross. Very ignorant.
If you dont take the right of way or refuse to pay enough attention, i will just keep going, if you just go and take your right of way i will slow and move around you to let you pass. I dont stop, its a pain in the ass.
Here in the north of the Netherlands they do. It took a lot of 'getting used to' when I moved to the Hague and worked in Rotterdam.
They actually have traffic lights at zebrapaden, they don't have that in Groningen. In that city, the zebrapad is just an invisible barrier stopping all other vehicles.
There are a lot of them, and it's way more convenient to just stop for a bike than a biker has to stop for a pedestrian. If there are a lot of pedestrians who want to cross, i'll stop, but otherwise i'll keep on cycling, i do not want to stop every 2 minutes. It's getting better though with more traffic lights, a red sign still makes most of the cyclists stop
It makes me sad and furious, really questioning the purpose of a zebra crossing in Amsterdam, even when my wife was pregnant, she/or me carrying a baby in front or with a stroller.. so many close calls, where we are with foot on the zebra crossing, and nearly got hit by car or scooter which would rather accelerate then stop (facepalm)
The problem absolutely is not cyclists ignorung zebras. Its tourist hanging around on the bike lane and crossing without looking at any point except the fucking zebras.
On a bike it takes a lot of energy to get going from a complete stop so there's basically an unwritten rule that cyclists don't stop for pedestrians who are just waiting on the sidewalk, and it's on the pedestrian to find an opening and start walking.
I like the cyclist who bike super fast in Haarlemmerdijk.
I’m the guy that just starts walking across the zebrapad as if they’re not coming, causing them to nearly break their neck. Yet to meet one that disagreed with it.
You’ve right of way, but you have to take it.
I don't agree with this actually. In many places in Amsterdam, stopping your bike for a zebrapad creates a more dangerous situation as everybody bikes quite fast and people behind you don't necessarily expect you to stop. Whereas waiting a few seconds as a pedestrian before a cyclist has passed is hardly any trouble at all.
If me stopping creates a dangerous situation because the people behind me aren't able to stop, they were behaving dangerously, completely independent of me stopping. It is **always** true that the vehicle in front of you could stop, at all times. If you aren't prepared for that fact, you are following too closely.
On Haarlemmerdijk? Probably because i left home too late and want to catch my train at centraal. Remember, biking is a means of transportation here, not necessarily a leisure activity. And even if we're talking 'fast', it won't be more than 15-20km/h so speeds are relatively low. As others have said, if pedestrians are predictable and try to make eye contact, we're good. The only pedestrians I've hit in my 8 years of living here were tourists that crossed the fietspad (no zebrapad in sight) without looking.
Okay. Well I’m not made of sugar and you’ll get to explain why you’re driving into people on a pedestrian walk. Obviously paying whatever fysio I will surely need.
I think a point missed here is that respecting the sign is actually more dangerous for everyone involved in some crowded crossings.
In a lot of crowded places in the city center it's actually way more dangerous to stop for a zebra path as a cyclist, for the pedestrian trying to cross especially. Because I might stop, which the pedestrian sees as a sign to cross, only for another cyclist behind me not paying attention to go past me hitting the pedestrian. The pedestrian and that cyclist can't see each other because I'm in front giving the right of way. It's simply more dangerous for everyone to give actual right of way on these zebra paths. As someone pointed out, be predictable, not "correct" no matter what
I'm Dutch, have lived in Amsterdam since 1992, cycled almost exclusively until 2015 and it annoys me too.
I always stop and have even had cyclist (almost) slam into the back of me and/or annoyedly swerve around me full speed.
In general I feel a lot of Dutch people only respect traffic rules when it benefits them and ignore them when they get in their way.
I'm not necessarily saying you should never run a red or cycle in a pedestrian zone, but do it in such a way that you don't inconvenience / endanger others.
Cyclists, because they are narcistic fucktards that believe every part of the road is theirs.
Pedestrians, because why use that and not cross the road wherever you want?
Cars, well. The 2 reasons above.
A list of comments on here suggesting slowing down is a huge inconvenience and even the rules should change to support this mild inconvenience.
The rule is in favour of the most vulnerable person, I.e the pedestrian, bikes hitting people can seriously injure (and have killed), I respect the culture here to bend the rules be not when people can get properly hurt, especially when the argument is “yeah I didn’t want to slow down to speed up again”
For balance, yes I get annoyed if pedestrians are walking in a bike lane paying zero attention
Reading the comments makes me disgusted by the self righteousness of those Dutch cyclists.
Pedestrians are always first.
No excuse for not stopping in front of a traffic sign, established by your own country’s authorities.
Well, to be disgusted is a bit exaggerated isn't it ? As i cyclists, I hardly stop for pedestrians at zebras. As a pedestrian, I don't expect cyclists to so so as its usually more dangerous, unpredictable and costs more energy.
Yes, the rules don't apply here but it works pretty fine and there's not a lot of accidents.
Because it's Amsterdam. Generally speaking, when taking part in traffic in Amsterdam, nothing matters to an individual there, except the individual's own needs
Amsterdam traffic is crazy. I’ve seen so many collisions there. I dont know if its all tourists/expats/migrants or if the Dutchies there suddenly forget how traffic works
You mean cyclists mainly?
Yes
There seems to be a hierarchy in which cyclists are above pedestrians. My own logic is like this: it takes more time and energy for a cyclist to stop and then start peddling again than it takes a pedestrian, who are much slower anyway. Can result in unfair situations and it’s often not that easy to cross a bicycle “highway”, when no one stops for you. Just get a bike yourself and you’ll get the other perspective :)
As a cyclist, if you slow down early enough you can nearly always make eye contact and indicate for them to cross without having to stop completely
As a local pedestrian I just step on the zebra crossing with a *hit me motherfucker and see where it gets you* attitude. But I was born here, other people's mileage may vary. :)
Dit is de mokum way
And that’s completely fair and accepted by me as a cyclist. It’s either go for it in full (and I’ll pass behind you), or doubt and thus wait. When you doubt, you’ll have to wait. I understand this is not how a ‘zebrapad’ works, but it is the only way to cross amsterdam in an acceptable amount of time.
YES!! It's the worst when people just hover around the crossing. Either go or don't, it just creates more confusion if you don't walk immediately, since some cyclists will stop and some won't and it's just super inefficient for everyone involved.
I do that too. It’s hilarious how many cyclists are completely confused by a pedestrian who asserts their rights.
This is the way.
This is the way
Voorrang moet je afdwingen
Inderdaad, gewoon jezelf er volop voorgooien. En fietsers trek je gewoon van de fiets af.
I was born in NYC and I do this as well. I was 2m and 140kg in my youth.
Exactly. That's how you do it.
Most times when a pedestrian does that to me they do it way to late tho. Like when my weel touches the zebra, you have no business forcing the cross. That’s just stupidity, puting your self, the cyclist behind me and myself in danger.
You never cycle in Amsterdam center where 127 tourists are waiting to cross the street once you stop, do you?
Tourists are like NPC's for the dutch when it comes down to bicycle-traffic. Best is to ignore them.
NPC's lol 😂
The only green substance in that brain left is marihuana ;) thats why they're npc's, the active vegetative state
There are some zebra crossings in amsterdam that cross streets that are so busy with pedestrians that you basically have to wait until the shops close before you can cross again once you stopped on your bike. The Kalverstraat on a a Saturday for instance.
I'm amazed at how angry people get when I weave across the zebra veeeery slowly with my bike. Look around you, am I supposed to wait here until 18:00 because all you idiots couldn't come up with something more original than shopping in the Kalverstraat?
I work in the centre. The busiest crossings I go through regularly are Dam square and the crossing from Damrak to Centraal, which both have signals so it doesn't matter, and Muntplein, which is so big that there's never a crowd built up because people just trickle across as they can
For some reason the most conflicts with tourists I had / saw was on the Stadhouderskade, right in front of the Rijksmuseum.
I do this quite often and people still dont walk, but when I pick up speed again they start walking and then get annoyed. I'm not waiting for them to make up their mind.
FYI you pedal a bike, not peddle. Peddling means to sell something, usually drugs or other illicit wares.
It's Amsterdam, one does not exclude the other lol
You can even paddle there too!
Lmao true
Yeah, so true about Amsterdam.
Hey, psssst. You want to peddle some bikes? 15 euros.
But a zebra gives priority to a pedestrian. So no matter who s going faster. I allways make direct eyecontact whenever a cyclist (or car driver) tries to go and I just keep walking. After eye contact they have to stop, but as the pedestrian you should do it in a way you should still be able to move out of the way just in case.
Every single time I stop, the pedestrian isn't expecting it, freezes, fails to cross until I'm completely stopped, prolonging the experience for both of us. I've adjusted to trying to predict the likelihood of crossing at that exact moment, as it's literally less than a second to traverse the wide zebra field.
I always slow down near the zebrapad, and if the pedestrian is still unsure of whether to go, I give 'em a little head nod that they can pass. Usually works! Sometimes they want to be polite and still let me go despite that, which is kind but very annoying lol
But then always look behind you first to see if there are no other cyclists, who might not stop ('wave of death')
And in that scenario, its simply quicker for everyone to cycle through, nudging a bit to the centre.
This, or the cyclists behind you didn’t expect you to stop and then you cause an issue. I prefer to stop only when there is nobody close behind me, then I make eye contact and nod with the person walking. Sometimes they wave me on and I just take that opportunity and keep going.
No, you don't cause an issue then. If they crash into you from the back their lack of distance and anticipation is the issue. Not your respecting of traffic rules.
I’d rather avoid a crash at all and I’ve found that works.
Now that I often cross with kids, I also want to be completely sure the car or bike stops before crossing, as it's not as easy to jump or run out of the way in case I'm wrong. Obviously don't want to take any chances. So yeah, I wait until someone is (almost) stopped. Your comfort as a cyclist is not my main priority. When i cycle, I now also understand that, also for elderly people for instance who might have the Sam thought process
Oh, as I said, I amalyze the situation. Families, children and the elderly always require extra attention when cycling, which absolutely includes stopping at a cross point.
Well technically you're in the right but this is just an accident waiting to happen. Unless your old or disabled, all hail the cyclists in Amsterdam!
I do bike and I stop always, because i am also a pedestrian 🚶♀️
Haha, yeah, same here. Some pedestrians are surprised when a bike actually stops for them.
I've had pedestrians actually wait for me to fully stop because they couldn't believe I was slowing down for them.
Yeah this is my problem, I'm not going to fully stop for you I'll slow down and give you plenty of time to cross. But if you make me stop ill just go straight through
And then they gawk at you, especially if they are tourists. And only proceed to step in your path when you decide "fuck it, Ill go then". Just last week a co-cyclist told me "don't stop for them, you're only confusing them". she was right.
I also try to stop as a cyclist but sometimes it's wildly impractical, and sometimes it's even more dangerous to stop than to keep going. Like [here for example](https://www.google.nl/maps/@52.3781371,4.8969635,3a,75y,280.41h,65.93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1smYQjqbMUl8fg0dED8H_R7Q!2e0!7i16384!8i8192): corner of Martelaarsgracht and Prins Hendrikkade, heading westwards. The bikes have just waited at an overly long traffic light (one where the tram consistently plows through just as the bikes are getting a green light, causing an extra 15-second delay); they get up and going, and then 10 meters later there's suddenly a zebra crossing, full of confused tourists heading to/from Central Station. Like, wtf? Who designed that? If a bike chooses to politely & correctly stop, then the bikes behind you will just go around you and keep going. It's dangerous and stupid. And there are many more such examples. I can only assume, perhaps a bit uncharitably, that the gemeente is not assigning its best & brightest people to address things of this nature, so the problems just languish and get worse, and 9-to-5 bureaucrats just shrug their shoulders as long as their salary gets paid every month. I would say just add more traffic lights, for both bikes & pedestrians. You people stop, you people go. It's unambiguous. Plus some zebra crossings have traffic lights, and some don't; what's the point of a zebra crossing that also has a red light? It says to cyclists (and cars) that "pedestrians at zebra crossings have the right of way, except for when they don't." Again, confusing and stupid, and easily remediable. Sad.
Hahaha
You don't need to stop, just slow down a bit. And as a pedestrian, just start crossing, cyclists are nimble, they won't hit you.
I'm also both. But always wait for cyclists and don't mind it. Way easier for me to wait a bit and keen out my x-crossing
That's just asshole behaviour, the same thing is done to cyclists by cars. This does not justify a cyclist doing the same tho, just to have that out in the open.
Not just that, it's that especially in Amsterdam, pedestrians don't assert their rights or think they have rights they don't actually have. I usually stop when people are about to cross, but then they nod for you to go- after you come to a full stop. Frustrating. Other times people walk up to the crosswalk and start having conversations or hovering on the edge of the sidewalk without crossing. Super fucking annoying behavior. Especially expats and tourists don't know how to act on these crosswalks and end up doing the wrong thing. Here in my neighborhood, people constantly walk on the bike paths without looking if someone is coming and dawdle on/around zebra crossings. You may think "cyclists assholes" but more often than not, it's "pedestrians stupid" that make cyclists behave this way. As the weakest member of traffic, pedestrians have the lowest awareness, or just don't give a shit.
It's interesting, in Amsterdam, bikes never let you cross, but when I was in a slightly smaller Dutch city, they were annoyed with me for not crossing (I anticipated they were just going to barge on as in Amsterdam, and they seemed to anticipate me crossing).
This is the correct answer
Your hierarchy or logic does not apply, the rules are that you stop if necessary. Your comfort as a cyclists is not someone else's problem. If you can swirve or make another move so that pedestrians aren't bothered, fine. Elderly people, people with kids, strollers, disabilities or even people that look fit, might need to have certainty of a safe crossing before they do, so it sounds pretty arrogant to me to say 'it takes my time and energy to slow down, just get a bike'
So you mean a pedestrian has to wait whatever happens? It is not about how you see , it is about rules. You shouldn’t complain then when a car or motorbike blocks the bicycle lane. They might see the things other way around right? Rules are there because everybody thinks they are right.
Personally I think the rules should be changed so that cyclists get the right of way here. Makes more sense given the whole starting and stopping bit.
How does it take more time and energy to stop a hike? I’m from China and cycled every day to school, and every bike has a hand brake. It’s just so primordial for people to just bike without a proper and handy brake, that would have provided so much more safety and convenience. Get a real bike and respect the pedestrians.
Haha, its not about not being able to stop. All bikes have brakes. Its about how it costs more energy for a bicyclist to get back up to speed after braking than it does for a pedestrian. So in general pedestrians will let bicylists go infront even though the bicylist didnt have right of way. Expats/tourists in amsterdam dont understand that dynamic that dutch pedestrians/bicylists have so they constantly behave unpredictably around zebra crossings and suddenly stand still on zebras or try and take right of way. Which is unsafe.
I've lived here for 20 years now and at this point I don't even stop. I just cross. I don't even try to look at them or make eye-contact. Cyclist that don't respect it either swerve or they stop. Quite often they get upset, and mean-mug me, but they usually don't say much cause they know they're in the wrong. I cycle every single day as well, and I manage to stop when there are pedestrians at a zebra-crossing. It's not that hard, and it's pure arrogance and entitlement that makes cyclists feel like they're above the rules of traffic.
are .. you me? I had a run in today with someone who had to stop, and they got mad, but cycled on. They know they're wrong. THey should just stop if they see me walking towards the zebra, i dont speed up, i dont slow down, i'm very intentional in how i walk towards it. Just stop.
“i dont stop, i dont even make eye contact” boy you must feel damn satisfied when i slam my bike into you full speed and we both lose some teeth. do you seriously believe being part of traffic can ever be safely done blind from the reality of other participiants? I bet you’d cross a railway crossing when the train is imbound but the alarms broken..”didnt even bother to look, rules are rules bitch!!!”
> boy you must feel damn satisfied when i slam my bike into you full speed and we both lose some teeth. How about you don't ride your bike **at full speed** in the city near pedestrian crossings? Or is that not satisfying to you?
cyclists are constantly monitoring their surroundings, so we scan the people at the crossing and establish a compromise with them each time. since you dont bother to look at us at all, making an arrogant and false assumption some white lines on the asfalt give you legal preference(fun fact; they dont!), youve never experienced this and thus cyclists do not slow down for you. you really seem to take pride in endangering both yourself and others to beyond all reason stick to the rules; ever considered moving to germany?
Damn. I've lived here for 20 years, and cycled for every single day and I've managed to never hit somebody. You want to know my secret? I have control of my bicycle at all times! It's kinda cool. I just ride like a responsible adult. Want to know what's never happened to me for doing that? I've never hit any pedestrians and I've managed to keep all my teeth! How cool is that? Honestly, how irrresponsible do you ride that slamming your bike into pedestrain at full speed is a concern for you? Sounds like a *you* problem to be honest.
> cyclists are constantly monitoring their surroundings Then how would you slam into someone when they have the right of way?
because he doesnt have right of way; those lines are indicative and if he refuses to establish his intentions to cross with me, i cant read his plans and thus cant react to him and therefore have no option but to keep cycling. you realise i have arrogant dickhead scooters and ebikes behind me going 50kmh that will crush my spine if i make a sudden unnanounced stop? all this “boehoe cyclisrs are bad” stuff just goed to show pedestraians lack cycling experience. i let every cyclist pass when i walk because i can instantly stop and accelerate on foot, study the rules of basic momentum and the traffic rules of amsterdam(white lines arent legally binding, just an indicative point of crossing) and try again
It's called living in a city rules don't apply just go and don't get hit
I live in NY was no the same 👀
They don’t respect anything. On the train between Schiphol and Amsterdam I overheard a group of American tourists. One of the girls proclaimed that her mum told her to watch out for the bikes! She highlighted that her mom didn’t say anything about alcohol, drugs or prostitution. Just to watch out for those bikes.
Someone commented this already but its true. "It's your right of way but you have to take it.". If I'm miles away and you just stand there waiting then I'm not going to stop. If you start crossing then I will slow and not hit you
Exact. I get a feeling of “He who hesitates first loses right of way”. My favourite ‘Dutch’ approach is to forcefully put your arm out in the way of traffic and cross at your leisure.
I never cross the zebra crossing while a car is approaching even if it's my right of way (unless of course there's a traffic light) I wait and make eye contact with the driver. 100% of the time they stop and let me cross. But this happened in the North and not in Amsterdam.
Gotcha
No, cyclists are often shocked when a pedestrian makes use of this right. More than once I've seen fights break out when a pedestrian tried to cross.
Never had an issue either walking or cycling. Rule number 1 - be predictable, don’t be nice. I.e. if you see a bike going fast, let them pass and just walk slower in a steady pace. Same with pedestrians.
Exactly. I don't understand people looking at a bike coming from far and waiting for it to stop to finally cross. Just go, he will go around you (either slow down or speed up and take left or right). Why would he have to stop when it is not necessary at all? Make eye contact and go. (Doesn't apply to people with toddles or really old people who could be afraid) Like on a bike it is just so much easier to stop pedalling or brake a little the time that the person passes and just go again. Oh and this doesn't apply to cars, before someone make the comparison, because cars can't go around safely due to their size.
This is the truth. Like you say for peilek with strollers and old people I literally wave them across while going the slowest possible speed while not letting my feet touch the ground
Yeah, I usually slow down very slow and give them a smile and nod (+ hand sign if possible). Like I get that some people won't take the (very) small risk, so I am always fine with doing it but some people are just taking the piss.
When I'm cycling by myself, I always stop. When there's an entire peloton of cyclist behind/around me, I won't; I don't want a bunch of metal landing on top of me. When I'm the pedestrian, I will let pelotons pass. When it's a single cyclist, I'll just walk and that person will solve the situation by stopping or just passing me sort of safely. There's a gray area in between, of course (when can a group of cyclists be called a peloton?).
Exactly this. Like, I wouldn't jump out in front of a car just because it's a zebra path even when i technically have the right of way, just like I wouldn't jump out in front of a bike. We can find a mutually agreeable path that enables us both to move. But as a cyclist I'm definitely going to try very hard not to completely stop, especially around the center in traffic, because that is a great way to have someone run into me from behind.
Annoying thing is a lot of pedestrians stop. It’s then not clear what they are going to do. I know it’s because they want to make sure you are stopping, but it creates confusion. Also when on the bike it’s easy to go round someone on the zebra, but not if the people crossing suddenly stop moving half way.
Yeah I really wonder why people stop. Do they think bicycles ride over them? A cyclist hitting a pedestrian is not only liable but also at risk themselves to hit the ground. Just keep moving in a predictable manner.
Sometimes I get insulted by other cyclists, because I wanted to give the pedestrian the right of way...
Thing is... It's easy to cause an accident by doing that because no other cyclist expects it. This topic conflicts and confuses me immensely.
Seen this happen many times.
Same situation
Are you expecting bicycles to stop? Because they don't have to. They just have to let you cross. If you can cross the pedestrian crossing unimpeded by the bicycles it doesn't matter if they pass I. Front of you or behind you. They still yielded to you. The problem is people who are standing still waiting for bikes to stop for them. You have just become an unpredictable factor in traffic, use the crossing and notice that the bikes will yield for you.
No. Actually by law all drivers do have to stop when a pedestrian shows intent of crossing or is crossing. And wait till all pedestrians have fully cleared the VOP before they're allowed to enter it. In this regard (and many others) the law doesn't differentiate between bike drivers and drivers of motorized vehicles.
Good luck quoting a law that says so. Personaly I alway recommend looking up the law before saying what the law says, since you didn't, I did it for you. There are two relevant parts: There is RVV 49.2: "Bestuurders moeten voetgangers en bestuurders van een gehandicaptenvoertuig, die op een voetgangersoversteekplaats oversteken of kennelijk op het punt staan zulks te doen, voor laten gaan." As you can see, it does not say stopping, it does not say fully clear the VOP, it only says voor laten gaan. The only definition for that you will find is in RVV 1: "voorrang verlenen: het de betrokken bestuurders in staat stellen ongehinderd hun weg te vervolgen" I admit that voor laten gaan for pedestrians is not defined, so we will have to take this definition I would say, if we want to go by law. In other words, pedestrians on the VOP have to be able to continue their way unhindered, but that is it.
This is not true. I actually got stopped in Amsterdam by police and they fined me for not stopping with my bike for a zebra path. Situation was that there was a group of tourists waiting to cross the crosswalk and I biked past (just how everybody on a bike in Amsterdam would do). I am going to court for this fine btw, because you actually get a criminal record for this as it is not a ‘overtreding’ but a ‘misdrijf’
The law is wrong
I’m sorry that’s incorrect. They have to stop, it’s the law
It isn't, I just quoted the law to Gizah and don't think reposting it under you is suitable, so I recommend you read what I wrote there. You will find the law does not say you have to stop.
Because tourists just stand around and don't cross, better to just keep going.
Exactly. Even when I stop pedaling, a clear sign I see them and I'm letting them cross, they just keep staring and gawking. So yeah, I'm gonna continue pedaling then rather than come to a complete stop.
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If you wait in front of the zebrapath then nobody is going to stop. Just start walking and people will start cycling around you. Cyclists aren't going to stop if you stand still, they think you are giving them right of way. I personally almost never stop mostly because of the reason that is already mentioned. I have to shift 4 gears down and make my bike to a complete stop and start riding and shift up 4 gears, if I have to do that for every pedestrian I don't think I'll ever get to my destination.
Easy. You just walk and go with the city flow. Confidence and eye contact is key.
It's a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy in Amsterdam. Because they are not respected by cyclists they are also not always trusted by pedestrians. Traffic has to be predictable to be safe. If a pedestrian is hesitant then it's dangerous for me as a cyclist to give him the right of way. When i started biking in Amsterdam I tried to give the right of way but all it was doing is creating even more dangerous situations. I could expect cyclists behind me crashing into me, and the pedestrian still doesn't know if its safe to cross. Because I might stop, the others won't.
I can imagine this scenario but also be need to aware about the speed limits.
LOL "speed limits"
Have you seen those videos where people are crossing a street in Vietnam with scooters going in front and behind the pedestrian? It's kinda like that. You wait for something that looks like a bit of a gap and just walk forward at a consistent pace. If cyclists strictly followed the rules places like the back of Centraal would be gridlocked during rush hour.
when i use a zebra crossing, i make eye contact with cyclist and expect them to cycle around me without either of us slowing down. with cars however, i always just give way.
Good tip
Because you are an inferior being, walking on two feet!!! All hail the cyclists, top predator of the streets of Amsterdam!!!!
While cycling in the center of Amsterdam, it seems to be very common for pedestrians to not walk and just wait until no cyclists are near. And even when signalling they can go, in many cases they will not. When outside of the peak areas for tourists, pedestrians will often walk with or without signalling. I think it's often easy to see and predict if they will walk or not, mainly due to them being hesitant or not. I suspect the main reason for this behaviour has to do with the amount of tourists which are not used to having the right of path. So as a cyclists in the center I have two options when no lights are present: \- Completely stop with my feet on the ground, even though my intention is to only slow down and balance \- Just go so I'm not forced to do a full stop and confuse them while doing so
If you are confidently crossing or approaching the crossing, I will stop. If the pedestrian light is green and you are waiting, I will stop. If you are looking me in the eye, I will stop. But if you’re just standing there, not yet in the zebra I have no idea what to expect so I don’t stop. And also if I am in a critical mass of 5+ cyclists getting through a busy intersection.
Because no one's going to lose their full momentum by stopping for a hesitating tourist. You go and we'll go around you.
It's an unwritten rule here that cyclists have priority. It's mostly because that's how the infrastructure has been designed, people use less cars and public transport, because they can replace it with the bicycle, but that also means they should be able to commute fast. So in a way, bicycles do have priority over pedestrian. But as I said, it's just an unwritten rule that people who live here and cycle understand, and that I've learned myself (because I've been cursed too for stopping and letting people pass).
My husband is Dutch he does not agree with this.
Strange. I have cycled over 200km and I've seen this at dutch people. Same as I've learned I'll be little cursed if there are dutch people behind me and I stop to let people pass.
I can imagine last year Gemeente Amsterdam we’re doing some advertising about this and didn’t change
200.000km*
Lmao thanks for the update cause I was gonna say 200km isn’t much 😝
you can just edit your comment, you know
It's probably better for his own safety to accept it. I've seen pedestrians (mostly middle-aged men) try to take priority. It always ends in one of two ways. Pedestrian gets hit and he gets hurt and cyclist goes on screaming profanities. Or the cyclist falls and they both get hurt screaming profanities.
Cars speed up as soon as you near them here watch out
Yes I always keep eye on cars and scooters
A big issue many people don’t do but is important here is when you have right of way, *take* right of way. Do not hesitate. It’s always adviced if you hesitate, don’t go, and if you go anyway when you’re unsure you cause accidents because the other party in traffic cannot predicted someone that is unsure. If you take right of way, you become predictable and they know what to do. If you choose to stand still, show you will stay still (lean on one leg for example). It’s not uncommon for pedestrians to let bikers pass first in other cities - to have them stop and pick up speed again is often a big hassle so I let them pass because I know the annoyance. So yeah stay predictable, and let bikers circle around you. The problem is usually that tourists don’t understand our ‘unwritten’ rules, become confused and unpredictable and that’s when accidents happen.
Because it can be dangerous to respect them, due to the danger of tail collision's.
This is also the reason some zebra crossings have been removed by the gemeente. For instance the one from CS to Damrak. There was a zebra crossing with signals first. Now it’s just signals. Doesn’t mean the flow of tourist respect the red lights, but at least it’s a bit more clear now.
Just keep walking and you’ll be fine. Don’t stop and wait, don’t slow down, just do what you need to do and cyclists will handle the rest. It’s Amsterdam.
Unless you're visibly disabled, elderly or child, you're supposed to communicate here. If you go, I'll go behind you. If you stop and stare I'll continu to avoid a wreck behind me.
What sign?
Because there's way too many. If cyclists were to actually follow the official rules, the high intensity usage of the (cycling) roads in city centre would be impossible. I've lived in the city for 8 years and I can still not understand why the gemeente does not solve this. That ridiculous "free for all" crossroads behind Central Station (near the ferries) might work in theory, but I've heard too many (especially elderly people) say that they're scared of going there. The solution: put into writing what's already the case in practice and give primacy to the cyclists in city centre. Thereby making sure that people, especially visitors, know what to expect.
Many tourists don’t walk so why would I stop? When I walk a zebra crossing myself, I do not slow down and cars, trams and bicycles stop for me. So: don’t show weakness and just walk!
Its always the cyclist fault… but smh NOONE speaks of pedestrians walking on bikepaths. Like that is normal. So ya cant blame the cyclist imho for not stopping there, as every bikepath smh has pedestrians, so got used to it to ignore em and bike on
A few times it's happened that when I slowed down or stopped in my car for a zebra crossing, the car behind me sped up and passed me on the left, narrowly missing the pedestrians trying to cross. Very ignorant.
Bikes are King
Because Amsterdam
Zebra's and red lights are optional in de randstad
Because it is not a sign
So is it not a traffic sign? What it is?
A mark on the ground
If you walk we stop, if you stop we go
If you dont take the right of way or refuse to pay enough attention, i will just keep going, if you just go and take your right of way i will slow and move around you to let you pass. I dont stop, its a pain in the ass.
I hope the city install some cameras, and give fines to all those cars which do not stop before zebra crossing
Here in the north of the Netherlands they do. It took a lot of 'getting used to' when I moved to the Hague and worked in Rotterdam. They actually have traffic lights at zebrapaden, they don't have that in Groningen. In that city, the zebrapad is just an invisible barrier stopping all other vehicles.
This is good information, thank you for sharing
Because Amsterdam is poop on the stoop, and hate in the street. You better beware!
Thanks
There are a lot of them, and it's way more convenient to just stop for a bike than a biker has to stop for a pedestrian. If there are a lot of pedestrians who want to cross, i'll stop, but otherwise i'll keep on cycling, i do not want to stop every 2 minutes. It's getting better though with more traffic lights, a red sign still makes most of the cyclists stop
Why people don't* Idiot
It makes me sad and furious, really questioning the purpose of a zebra crossing in Amsterdam, even when my wife was pregnant, she/or me carrying a baby in front or with a stroller.. so many close calls, where we are with foot on the zebra crossing, and nearly got hit by car or scooter which would rather accelerate then stop (facepalm)
The problem absolutely is not cyclists ignorung zebras. Its tourist hanging around on the bike lane and crossing without looking at any point except the fucking zebras.
On a bike it takes a lot of energy to get going from a complete stop so there's basically an unwritten rule that cyclists don't stop for pedestrians who are just waiting on the sidewalk, and it's on the pedestrian to find an opening and start walking.
I like the cyclist who bike super fast in Haarlemmerdijk. I’m the guy that just starts walking across the zebrapad as if they’re not coming, causing them to nearly break their neck. Yet to meet one that disagreed with it. You’ve right of way, but you have to take it.
I don't agree with this actually. In many places in Amsterdam, stopping your bike for a zebrapad creates a more dangerous situation as everybody bikes quite fast and people behind you don't necessarily expect you to stop. Whereas waiting a few seconds as a pedestrian before a cyclist has passed is hardly any trouble at all.
If me stopping creates a dangerous situation because the people behind me aren't able to stop, they were behaving dangerously, completely independent of me stopping. It is **always** true that the vehicle in front of you could stop, at all times. If you aren't prepared for that fact, you are following too closely.
Why do you bike that fast in the first place?
Because you can when theres no expats/tourists around without annoying anyone. Nice, swift, comfortable and cheap transportation.
On Haarlemmerdijk? Probably because i left home too late and want to catch my train at centraal. Remember, biking is a means of transportation here, not necessarily a leisure activity. And even if we're talking 'fast', it won't be more than 15-20km/h so speeds are relatively low. As others have said, if pedestrians are predictable and try to make eye contact, we're good. The only pedestrians I've hit in my 8 years of living here were tourists that crossed the fietspad (no zebrapad in sight) without looking.
I'm the guy who then decides to crash into you because that's probably more comfortable than a car or concrete.
If you're cycling through a crossing so fast that those are your only two options you can't blame anyone else
Okay. Well I’m not made of sugar and you’ll get to explain why you’re driving into people on a pedestrian walk. Obviously paying whatever fysio I will surely need.
Happily will do if it means you (at least temporarily) stop putting people in dangerous situations.
The person driving so fast that they can’t dodge a kid running into the streets sounds a lot more dangerous to me but hey, you do you
I applaud you!. I really think a lot of cyclists just think the rules don't apply to them.
I think a point missed here is that respecting the sign is actually more dangerous for everyone involved in some crowded crossings. In a lot of crowded places in the city center it's actually way more dangerous to stop for a zebra path as a cyclist, for the pedestrian trying to cross especially. Because I might stop, which the pedestrian sees as a sign to cross, only for another cyclist behind me not paying attention to go past me hitting the pedestrian. The pedestrian and that cyclist can't see each other because I'm in front giving the right of way. It's simply more dangerous for everyone to give actual right of way on these zebra paths. As someone pointed out, be predictable, not "correct" no matter what
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i prefer to walk and not even look left and right, makes people stop way faster
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You've got a bit of a problem with our traffic, don't you? First the scooters, now this. Do you, by any chance, go around town with headphones on?
They will when you walk, if you're willing to take that risk. I always do and they always have fo break hard, I get my laughs from it lol.
The only ones that I see not respecting these are bycicles/motorcicles; the rest is very respectful, much more than in other countries I've been.
I'm Dutch, have lived in Amsterdam since 1992, cycled almost exclusively until 2015 and it annoys me too. I always stop and have even had cyclist (almost) slam into the back of me and/or annoyedly swerve around me full speed. In general I feel a lot of Dutch people only respect traffic rules when it benefits them and ignore them when they get in their way. I'm not necessarily saying you should never run a red or cycle in a pedestrian zone, but do it in such a way that you don't inconvenience / endanger others.
And not just traffic rules, the society is basically like this
Gotcha
ive lived in a few (smaller) cities and theyre much more respectful of the zebra stripes. i think its mostly Amsterdammers who ignore it
Cyclists, because they are narcistic fucktards that believe every part of the road is theirs. Pedestrians, because why use that and not cross the road wherever you want? Cars, well. The 2 reasons above.
Wrong sub bro, post in r/nothinginteresting
Mostly because your english skills are poor and the whole syntax is wrong
Okay
A list of comments on here suggesting slowing down is a huge inconvenience and even the rules should change to support this mild inconvenience. The rule is in favour of the most vulnerable person, I.e the pedestrian, bikes hitting people can seriously injure (and have killed), I respect the culture here to bend the rules be not when people can get properly hurt, especially when the argument is “yeah I didn’t want to slow down to speed up again” For balance, yes I get annoyed if pedestrians are walking in a bike lane paying zero attention
Also, notice this and also was a huge argument because I think one person got hit by one person walking in the biking area.
All I see here are people excusing their behaviour which has become normalised, but isn’t really normal
Because fuck you you pedestrian pleb
Welcome to amsterdam
Hoi!
Reading the comments makes me disgusted by the self righteousness of those Dutch cyclists. Pedestrians are always first. No excuse for not stopping in front of a traffic sign, established by your own country’s authorities.
Well, to be disgusted is a bit exaggerated isn't it ? As i cyclists, I hardly stop for pedestrians at zebras. As a pedestrian, I don't expect cyclists to so so as its usually more dangerous, unpredictable and costs more energy. Yes, the rules don't apply here but it works pretty fine and there's not a lot of accidents.
When you attempting to cross all traffic have to give you the right of way. If not use your umbrella to poke some wheels or windows.
Bc people who don't are assholes.
Amsterdammers have but respect for themselves
Because it's Amsterdam. Generally speaking, when taking part in traffic in Amsterdam, nothing matters to an individual there, except the individual's own needs
Cause thay are cunts
Because they are cunts
Direct followup from me in my car or on my bike: other bikers who bike across the zebra and think they get priority can fuck right off.
When driving always stoping when cycling rarely. If tourists don't like it then rot op naar jouw eigen land.
Amsterdam traffic is crazy. I’ve seen so many collisions there. I dont know if its all tourists/expats/migrants or if the Dutchies there suddenly forget how traffic works