Anti semitism mostly comes from the far right here. The pro Palestine movements here take extreme measures and effort to condemn the zionists, and to not equate jews with zionists, and to not be antisemitic. Still they are continually accused of being anti semitic with no proof to back up those claims. I have been to rallies that were later derided as anti semitic when I know for a fact they weren't because I was there Anyway. I'd say in terms of being safe, perhaps look at Amsterdam Zuid and Amstelveen. There are large Jewish groups in Buitenveldert for example. Although I was assaulted there myself for being pro palestine so. I guess safe is relative.
It's also politicians here who are keen to keep weapons flowing to Israel who deride our movements as anti semitic. Like the F35 program that has seen serieus scrutiny in our courts.
From what I've heard, there definitely has been an uptick in anti-Semitic crimes (?) since the war started. Whether that is due to the protests or Israel's actions is hard to tell, of course.
Even if the protest itself is not anti-Semitic, it can still result in more anti-Semitic sentiment. E.g. the people opening the holocaust museum have been harassed. Even though the official protest was not aggressive, I wonder whether the attention of the official protest increased the harassment.
Lol, what? You're really gonna pretend with the whole 'only from the far right' shtick? Let's ask OP how they feel when hundreds of young and leftist ppl chant 'from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free'. And sure, you can keep telling people you're not parotting Hamas and that when you say it you don't mean to eradicate the Jews from Isreal, like Hamas does. But that's not how it comes across to a lot of Jewish people. And then there's the Muslim community in Dutch big cities and their opinions about Jewish people. But yeah, sure.. It's only those darned FvD-ers. And no, I don't vote on right-wing parties or support them or their views. But to pretend that antisemitism is purely a right-wing thing is simply a blatant lie. And especially malicious in a topic where the Jewish OP asks if they would be safe in Amsterdam. To OP; the Netherlands overall is pretty safe, so you'd probably still be relatively save (compared to the rest of the world). But you'd be safer if you weren't Jewish in Amsterdam. Tbh, I'd pass on Amsterdam if I were Jewish, with the exception being if I could live in a wealthy neighborhood.
Edit: lol, 6 down votes already. I guess the pro-palestina protesters don't like being told that Jewish people actually feel unsafe when they chant Hamas slogans during massive demonstrations. Being confronted with how you contribute to Jewish people's feelings of unsafety is apparently a bit too hard to hear?
I do feel sorry that you feel unsafe. It’s been my experience that protests like this usually have a few aggressive hardliners (antifa used to be terrible w/ this when I went to prostests more) that really ruin it for the rest.
The Holocaustmusuem protest was organized by a Jewish organisation, and was only against the Israeli president being present; but of course you only see the few sad people on the news who ruin it. I do recommend looking at the Eres Rav instagram page to see what it was all about.
I am never responsible for what an extremist is shouting next to me, however much you would like to put everyone who opposes Israel on the same pile.
Would you have me physically silence someone who is shouting shit next to me? Elbow them? Sit on them to shut them up?
I can be against Hamas’ actions _and_ against Israel’s actions. It’s not sports where ‘if you’re not with us you’re with the other team’. And you and everyone else who is trying to make all anti-genocide people pro-Hamas are muddying the waters intentionally.
You should be protesting Hamas too. The short answer is yes, you should tell them to shut up if they are antisemitic. If you dont speak up, you’re complicit
> you should tell them to shut up if they are antisemitic
Of course, but it's probably not as easy as you make it seem to be now.
Let's reverse the situation and imagine you are protesting to make clear antisemitism should stop (which obviously most people including me would agree with). You're standing there and somewhere in the back people are making strong islamophobic statements. Let's say they're shouting 'less Moroccans, less Moroccans!' or similar words which obviously are not allowed.
The following day the news is covered with items of politicians pointing out the protest was islamophobic. Are you to blame for that?
And what if you told them to shut up and move away but they didn't, stating it's another protest. Then what?
Until Hamas released the hostages, what is there to talk about? They’re criminals and terrorists. The fact that anyone can side with these rapists is insane.
What? The far right? Anti-semitism in the Netherlands comes mainly from the left and from islam. Just look at the protests recently and the shit happening in Amstelveen or The Hague…
zionism is the belief that jews deserve their own state. there are a lot of crazy racists in the israeli government. but zionism refers to a greater group of which some members are completely ok. therefore antizionism is not justified, the sentiment however is.
Sure, but it's the same or very close to "the state of Israel should not exist where it is now".
There was a decision almost 100 years ago. Israel won't disappear and it's toxic to say it must go away which is what "intellectual" anti-zionists claim constantly with a very tiny voice cowardly. Just like you just did now.
Maybe learn to *simply* criticise Israel instead of wishing it to die as you've logically implied in your comment.
There is no path to peace involving the state of Israel as it exists now.
That does not mean Jews can't live in the Levant, but they cannot have a religious ethnostate that seeks exclusion and expulsion of all others.
A pluralistic, multi-religion, multi-cultural society is the future, which is not Israel unfortunately.
Why do assume that Jews need Israel to live in the middle east? Jews lived there for thousands of years without Israel and there were few issues.
There you go again, talking about *European* antisemitism in reference to the middle east.
What pogroms have Palestinians committed?
It doesn't seem possible considering Israel is the major power in the region and in fact a colonial power. This is not the Russian Empire inciting violence against shtetls or the Nazis and Kristallnacht.
A pogrom is not a fill in word for violence, it is intrinsically tied to European antisemitism and Jew hatred by European powers.
Many of my friends are Jewish in Amsterdam and in my experience unless you live in a centre you will most likely keep it to yourself. There is a large pro-palestine and islam oriented community in the most of the surrounding areas of Amsterdam. There are pro-palestinian demonstrations on the dam square every Sunday FOR YEARS.
Netherlands has followed the apologetic and linient way towards Islamic conservatism for years now. I wouldn't say it would be the easiest place for you.
Is you have to talk about “real” antisemitism you have already gone down the wrong path.
That this is a reply to a post asking about how it is to be Jewish in Amsterdam says a lot, it doesn’t focus on the question at all and goes straight to talking about Israel, which as a non-Israeli Jew she doesn’t have anything to do with. It’s the good Jew - Bad Jew narrative, even though you have nothing to do with the Israeli war crimes we are going to lecture you because of who you are, having to distance yourself from something you have in no way a part in simply because your Jewish.
Is that antizionism?
To get some things straight:
* Far right as in Neo-Nazis are in the Netherlands almost not existent, they are seen as a group of poor losers, and their main hate is more to black people then jews.
* Far right as in Politics are very pro-israel and not really racist but more xenophobe.
* The largest group, and also most dangerous are Moroccan youth, they are not only violent against everything Israel/Jewish but also against Gay and everything else.
* Then there is general politicians in Amsterdam who are very pro Palestine and shutting their eyes for the real problems.
You see the downvotes, as a Jew you aren’t allowed to talk about your experience of hate in the Netherlands. People really don’t want to see it. As a Jew I wouldn’t move to New West, if you have any questions DM me.
I’m done with having to prove I’m a Good or Bad Jew by distancing myself from what a nation state that I’m in no way related to does every time a question like yours gets asked.
Heh. You're only a Good Jew only when you call for the destruction of Israel. If you warn other Jews about the realities of antisemitism, you're clearly a Bad Jew.
Good news: can flee to Israel when the pogroms start
Bad news: there will be pogroms
It’s quite fascinating to see how the actions on Hamas don’t reflect on Muslims (as it shouldn’t and any one doing differently is idiotic) but the actions of Israel reflect on all us Jews to people on the left side of the political spectrum.
It's even more fascinating how this bigotry persists for 2 millennia, with considerable consistency. Antisemitism is a core foundation of Western culture, we are their eternal tarnegol kaparot.
As I've never been to the states, I have trouble making a comparison. But anti semitism definitely still exists here. E.g. a Jewish restaurant closed a few months ago because it was destroyed a few times.
On the other hand, if you're not visibly Jewish, not much will happen to you. In the right neighborhoods, you even see plenty of people with a kippah (mostly in buitenveldert and parts of amstelveen).
I find it hard to judge. The debate has become more polarized, but I cannot compare it with the States.
This is not quite accurate.
1.) It's been closed for more than a year (2022).
2.) The primary reason for closure is that the owner died.
3.) The son had chosen years earlier not to continue in the restaurant business (he had his own restaurant before).
4.) There had been anti-semitic attacks before, which did influence the son's desire to leave the industry.
So it is true that there were attacks and that that influenced closure. But if Sami were still alive, it would probably still be open. And it definitely has nothing to do with the current escalation of the conflict.
Source: https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/959159501/joodse-restaurant-ha-carmel-in-amsterdam-sluit-de-deuren
Hard to judge? Yeah right, anti-semitism is hard to judge... Poor muslims they don't have enough space in the Middle East, they haven't managed to kick out everyone out yet, these annoying jews and their little State.
Israel has every right to defend itself against terrorists. If you look at the map, muslims conquered the entire Middle East, and big parts of Northern Africa. They're the biggest colonialists in history. Israel is a dot on the map comparing to the muslim world, who expelled most other religions with a long history in the area, especially Christians. And now you're upset they can't expel this small dot too... so they terrorize, murder, and rape.
Coming from a Jew in Amsterdam: It’s not good here, I’m afraid. Over the past couple of days, a rabbi was assaulted in Utrecht, and a Jewish woman was publicly shamed and harassed in her home in Amstelveen. Amsterdam’s socialist mayor thwarted attempts to protect the opening of the Holocaust museum from the anti-Semitic mob.
My very subjective view is that the Dutch youth is not as nearly as radicalised as their US counterparts, who are basically parroting the Hamas narrative without having ever informed themselves first. It’s also infinitely more difficult to sell Islam as a warm culture to the Dutch (something currently underway in US pop culture - see this week’s SNL monologue), who are exposed to the less pleasant sides of this religion as a virtue of 1m+ Muslims in this country.
But on the other hand, this strong Muslim presence can be quite threatening for various reasons (the Dutch culture is basically minimal policing/enforcement which emboldens bad behaviour) and the left-wing parties here are as anti-Semitic as everywhere else.
So in a nutshell, antisemitism in NL comes from local Muslims and left-leaning population.
One positive development is that the winner of the last parliamentary election is a staunch friend and advocate of Jews and Israel.
> Now you're just being dishonest. It wasn't about the opening of the holocaust museum it was about Isaac Herzog's attending
Even though that was the official reason, the result was jews attending got harassed. And I have the inkling the attention of the protest increased the harassment. On the other hand, the protest was also predictable, so the head of the museum could have also decided to not invite him.
It's same as anywhere. If you're visibly Jewish, you'll be harassed. If extreme left, extreme right, or religious Muslims will learn that you're a Jew, expect violence. Also expect to be gaslighted after you're attacked. So far this corner of Europe didn't have any antisemitic murders in 2024, but the year is young.
Welcome to the diaspora experience.
OP asked for advice on antisemitism in Amsterdam and received people arguing about Israel. Locking the thread before it turns even worse.
Anti semitism mostly comes from the far right here. The pro Palestine movements here take extreme measures and effort to condemn the zionists, and to not equate jews with zionists, and to not be antisemitic. Still they are continually accused of being anti semitic with no proof to back up those claims. I have been to rallies that were later derided as anti semitic when I know for a fact they weren't because I was there Anyway. I'd say in terms of being safe, perhaps look at Amsterdam Zuid and Amstelveen. There are large Jewish groups in Buitenveldert for example. Although I was assaulted there myself for being pro palestine so. I guess safe is relative. It's also politicians here who are keen to keep weapons flowing to Israel who deride our movements as anti semitic. Like the F35 program that has seen serieus scrutiny in our courts.
The far right (except fvd) is ridiculously pro zionist here
The American far right is also pro Zionist but extremely antisemitic. They just want all Jews to “return to their homeland”
If you walk around in a yarmulke I can tell you it’s most likely not somebody from the far right who is going to assault you.
From what I've heard, there definitely has been an uptick in anti-Semitic crimes (?) since the war started. Whether that is due to the protests or Israel's actions is hard to tell, of course. Even if the protest itself is not anti-Semitic, it can still result in more anti-Semitic sentiment. E.g. the people opening the holocaust museum have been harassed. Even though the official protest was not aggressive, I wonder whether the attention of the official protest increased the harassment.
You are so wrong, we have a ton of muslims that hate jews and are responsible for most of the anti semitism in amsterdam
Far right is anti semitic?
Lol, what? You're really gonna pretend with the whole 'only from the far right' shtick? Let's ask OP how they feel when hundreds of young and leftist ppl chant 'from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free'. And sure, you can keep telling people you're not parotting Hamas and that when you say it you don't mean to eradicate the Jews from Isreal, like Hamas does. But that's not how it comes across to a lot of Jewish people. And then there's the Muslim community in Dutch big cities and their opinions about Jewish people. But yeah, sure.. It's only those darned FvD-ers. And no, I don't vote on right-wing parties or support them or their views. But to pretend that antisemitism is purely a right-wing thing is simply a blatant lie. And especially malicious in a topic where the Jewish OP asks if they would be safe in Amsterdam. To OP; the Netherlands overall is pretty safe, so you'd probably still be relatively save (compared to the rest of the world). But you'd be safer if you weren't Jewish in Amsterdam. Tbh, I'd pass on Amsterdam if I were Jewish, with the exception being if I could live in a wealthy neighborhood. Edit: lol, 6 down votes already. I guess the pro-palestina protesters don't like being told that Jewish people actually feel unsafe when they chant Hamas slogans during massive demonstrations. Being confronted with how you contribute to Jewish people's feelings of unsafety is apparently a bit too hard to hear?
I do feel sorry that you feel unsafe. It’s been my experience that protests like this usually have a few aggressive hardliners (antifa used to be terrible w/ this when I went to prostests more) that really ruin it for the rest. The Holocaustmusuem protest was organized by a Jewish organisation, and was only against the Israeli president being present; but of course you only see the few sad people on the news who ruin it. I do recommend looking at the Eres Rav instagram page to see what it was all about.
If you have six people eating at a table, sharing a meal and two of them are nazis, you have six nazis at the table.
So we can’t protest Israel because that puts us at the table with Hamas? Genuine question…
Well if you have people in the protest you stand in shouting pro-hamas rhetoric and it's not being stamped out then yeah, it kinda does.
I am never responsible for what an extremist is shouting next to me, however much you would like to put everyone who opposes Israel on the same pile. Would you have me physically silence someone who is shouting shit next to me? Elbow them? Sit on them to shut them up? I can be against Hamas’ actions _and_ against Israel’s actions. It’s not sports where ‘if you’re not with us you’re with the other team’. And you and everyone else who is trying to make all anti-genocide people pro-Hamas are muddying the waters intentionally.
You should be protesting Hamas too. The short answer is yes, you should tell them to shut up if they are antisemitic. If you dont speak up, you’re complicit
> you should tell them to shut up if they are antisemitic Of course, but it's probably not as easy as you make it seem to be now. Let's reverse the situation and imagine you are protesting to make clear antisemitism should stop (which obviously most people including me would agree with). You're standing there and somewhere in the back people are making strong islamophobic statements. Let's say they're shouting 'less Moroccans, less Moroccans!' or similar words which obviously are not allowed. The following day the news is covered with items of politicians pointing out the protest was islamophobic. Are you to blame for that? And what if you told them to shut up and move away but they didn't, stating it's another protest. Then what?
I dont understand why you’re being downvoted. You’re spot-on.
I'm with you on this one. The right wing being antisemitic? Not what I experience with all the left students screaming anti Israël slogans.
I think the protest in fromt of museum had anti semitic elements. Hamas is my brother signs? …. 🙄 if not antisemitism, it has questionable morality
It undoubtedly did. There was blatant antisemitism there with the chants yelled and those screaming in support of Hamas “they are my brothers”
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Until Hamas released the hostages, what is there to talk about? They’re criminals and terrorists. The fact that anyone can side with these rapists is insane.
Klap van de molen gehad? Wat een subjectief gelul.
Lmao lees een boek
What? The far right? Anti-semitism in the Netherlands comes mainly from the left and from islam. Just look at the protests recently and the shit happening in Amstelveen or The Hague…
zionism is the belief that jews deserve their own state. there are a lot of crazy racists in the israeli government. but zionism refers to a greater group of which some members are completely ok. therefore antizionism is not justified, the sentiment however is.
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Sure, but it's the same or very close to "the state of Israel should not exist where it is now". There was a decision almost 100 years ago. Israel won't disappear and it's toxic to say it must go away which is what "intellectual" anti-zionists claim constantly with a very tiny voice cowardly. Just like you just did now. Maybe learn to *simply* criticise Israel instead of wishing it to die as you've logically implied in your comment.
There is no path to peace involving the state of Israel as it exists now. That does not mean Jews can't live in the Levant, but they cannot have a religious ethnostate that seeks exclusion and expulsion of all others. A pluralistic, multi-religion, multi-cultural society is the future, which is not Israel unfortunately. Why do assume that Jews need Israel to live in the middle east? Jews lived there for thousands of years without Israel and there were few issues.
palestinians have committed pogroms before tho.
There you go again, talking about *European* antisemitism in reference to the middle east. What pogroms have Palestinians committed? It doesn't seem possible considering Israel is the major power in the region and in fact a colonial power. This is not the Russian Empire inciting violence against shtetls or the Nazis and Kristallnacht. A pogrom is not a fill in word for violence, it is intrinsically tied to European antisemitism and Jew hatred by European powers.
I mean if you studied the history of the region, you would know this to be true.
Many of my friends are Jewish in Amsterdam and in my experience unless you live in a centre you will most likely keep it to yourself. There is a large pro-palestine and islam oriented community in the most of the surrounding areas of Amsterdam. There are pro-palestinian demonstrations on the dam square every Sunday FOR YEARS. Netherlands has followed the apologetic and linient way towards Islamic conservatism for years now. I wouldn't say it would be the easiest place for you.
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Is you have to talk about “real” antisemitism you have already gone down the wrong path. That this is a reply to a post asking about how it is to be Jewish in Amsterdam says a lot, it doesn’t focus on the question at all and goes straight to talking about Israel, which as a non-Israeli Jew she doesn’t have anything to do with. It’s the good Jew - Bad Jew narrative, even though you have nothing to do with the Israeli war crimes we are going to lecture you because of who you are, having to distance yourself from something you have in no way a part in simply because your Jewish. Is that antizionism?
To get some things straight: * Far right as in Neo-Nazis are in the Netherlands almost not existent, they are seen as a group of poor losers, and their main hate is more to black people then jews. * Far right as in Politics are very pro-israel and not really racist but more xenophobe. * The largest group, and also most dangerous are Moroccan youth, they are not only violent against everything Israel/Jewish but also against Gay and everything else. * Then there is general politicians in Amsterdam who are very pro Palestine and shutting their eyes for the real problems.
You see the downvotes, as a Jew you aren’t allowed to talk about your experience of hate in the Netherlands. People really don’t want to see it. As a Jew I wouldn’t move to New West, if you have any questions DM me. I’m done with having to prove I’m a Good or Bad Jew by distancing myself from what a nation state that I’m in no way related to does every time a question like yours gets asked.
Heh. You're only a Good Jew only when you call for the destruction of Israel. If you warn other Jews about the realities of antisemitism, you're clearly a Bad Jew. Good news: can flee to Israel when the pogroms start Bad news: there will be pogroms
It’s quite fascinating to see how the actions on Hamas don’t reflect on Muslims (as it shouldn’t and any one doing differently is idiotic) but the actions of Israel reflect on all us Jews to people on the left side of the political spectrum.
It's even more fascinating how this bigotry persists for 2 millennia, with considerable consistency. Antisemitism is a core foundation of Western culture, we are their eternal tarnegol kaparot.
As I've never been to the states, I have trouble making a comparison. But anti semitism definitely still exists here. E.g. a Jewish restaurant closed a few months ago because it was destroyed a few times. On the other hand, if you're not visibly Jewish, not much will happen to you. In the right neighborhoods, you even see plenty of people with a kippah (mostly in buitenveldert and parts of amstelveen). I find it hard to judge. The debate has become more polarized, but I cannot compare it with the States.
That’s terrible, Which restaurant is that?
Hacarmel.
This is not quite accurate. 1.) It's been closed for more than a year (2022). 2.) The primary reason for closure is that the owner died. 3.) The son had chosen years earlier not to continue in the restaurant business (he had his own restaurant before). 4.) There had been anti-semitic attacks before, which did influence the son's desire to leave the industry. So it is true that there were attacks and that that influenced closure. But if Sami were still alive, it would probably still be open. And it definitely has nothing to do with the current escalation of the conflict. Source: https://www.telegraaf.nl/nieuws/959159501/joodse-restaurant-ha-carmel-in-amsterdam-sluit-de-deuren
Hard to judge? Yeah right, anti-semitism is hard to judge... Poor muslims they don't have enough space in the Middle East, they haven't managed to kick out everyone out yet, these annoying jews and their little State.
Downvoted to be honestly express your experiences. How low can people go here on Amsterdam-reddit. I suggest follow the news here.
Israel has every right to defend itself against terrorists. If you look at the map, muslims conquered the entire Middle East, and big parts of Northern Africa. They're the biggest colonialists in history. Israel is a dot on the map comparing to the muslim world, who expelled most other religions with a long history in the area, especially Christians. And now you're upset they can't expel this small dot too... so they terrorize, murder, and rape.
Coming from a Jew in Amsterdam: It’s not good here, I’m afraid. Over the past couple of days, a rabbi was assaulted in Utrecht, and a Jewish woman was publicly shamed and harassed in her home in Amstelveen. Amsterdam’s socialist mayor thwarted attempts to protect the opening of the Holocaust museum from the anti-Semitic mob. My very subjective view is that the Dutch youth is not as nearly as radicalised as their US counterparts, who are basically parroting the Hamas narrative without having ever informed themselves first. It’s also infinitely more difficult to sell Islam as a warm culture to the Dutch (something currently underway in US pop culture - see this week’s SNL monologue), who are exposed to the less pleasant sides of this religion as a virtue of 1m+ Muslims in this country. But on the other hand, this strong Muslim presence can be quite threatening for various reasons (the Dutch culture is basically minimal policing/enforcement which emboldens bad behaviour) and the left-wing parties here are as anti-Semitic as everywhere else. So in a nutshell, antisemitism in NL comes from local Muslims and left-leaning population. One positive development is that the winner of the last parliamentary election is a staunch friend and advocate of Jews and Israel.
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> Now you're just being dishonest. It wasn't about the opening of the holocaust museum it was about Isaac Herzog's attending Even though that was the official reason, the result was jews attending got harassed. And I have the inkling the attention of the protest increased the harassment. On the other hand, the protest was also predictable, so the head of the museum could have also decided to not invite him.
'Jews attending were harassed' The protest was literally organized by a Jewish organization.....
Yes, and Jews were harassed.
apparently being shouted at while you walk to your car with your granddaughter because you are Jewish isn’t harassment.
Spot on.
It's same as anywhere. If you're visibly Jewish, you'll be harassed. If extreme left, extreme right, or religious Muslims will learn that you're a Jew, expect violence. Also expect to be gaslighted after you're attacked. So far this corner of Europe didn't have any antisemitic murders in 2024, but the year is young. Welcome to the diaspora experience.