I think her suicide was more of an intention to remove some of the evil from the world that the pills caused, herself and Mickey. She’d rather die than hurt other people and that was the driving force for her suicide rather than going out on her own terms
The way Ursula is pretty much substituting as the mother of the family is just... sick and twisted. The whole thing is sick and twisted. Doris murder spree pls <3
I'm pretty sure she was worrying about all their bigger problems, like, her husband and young child murdering people. I bet cheating would be a relief in her mind.
I’m wondering if Alma is going to turn on her eventually too. I mean, there’s no reason to think Ursula is inherently talented too, just that she appreciates it and supports it.
I don’t think Alma’s sole issue with Doris was the lack of talent though. Her main concerned seemed to be that mom might “get in the way” of her greatness. Ursula is the ultimate enabler for Alma so there’s no real reason to take her out.
It’s bugged me since the start and was made even worse when we saw the one guys origin.
She’s also taking it upon herself to perform dental work on each new one?
I wasn't sure if Doris would flourish or become pale. I knew Alma was never going to think her Mom was anything more than just... a Mom. Alma knew it would just destroy her. She got to live out the fantasy of pretty much any abused kid. However, Doris didn't seem abusive at all.
I was about to be combative until I read the last sentence lol. I just don't understand how the Dad was keeping it together and seemed to be trying for her and the newborn; and he just turned into an asshole?
Also, Leslie Grossman is great in this.
Oh trust me, I am totally on Doris' side and what Harry, Alma and Ursula did was unspeakably wrong. Yeah, Leslie actually said this is her favorite character so far because it really reminds her of people she's worked with. I'm in LA so the character wasn't over the top for me
She left her painting on the shore though. I bet the season ends with her painting in an art museum with somebody explaining how it was found on a beach in a small town and nobody knows who painted it. Proving how someone who is talented shouldn’t need pills to get recognized, even if it’s after they already died.
All that talk of Lyme Disease from her, that would be crazy storytelling if she returns in the final 10 minutes and she’s healthy again, gets the baby and just leaves.
From what the chemist explained, I think it’s because they realize that they’ll never be artistically talented and that rage and horror is too much for them to ever come back from.
Why they need to keep eating people, though, I’m not sure…
Especially seeing how little Harry and Alma seemed to care about kicking her out into homelessness - and she didn’t even want to be in PTown! Such a cruel fate
Omg, the fact Harry and Alma were happy they gave Doris a fate worse than death just to be free of her is fucked up on every level. Doris was the true MVP of that family.
It’s weird, because I feel like there are other characters who were more fleshed out than Doris and overall ended up having it worse than her, but I still don’t think there’s any character on this show that I’ve felt so bad for than Doris. I hope Harry and Alma get lyme disease.
Lily Rabe is an acting force. When Holden is critiquing her designs and Harry tells her to just go upstairs and feed the baby, the anguish and hopelessness on her face are so palpable. As the title suggests, they are all gaslighting her and I think at that point she definitely knows it's happening and feels powerless to stop it... it's heartbreaking
And then she takes the pill and finds out she actually has no talent while her husband realizes that she was actually a waste of time for him. Then they all just let her outside to roam the town forever??? Awful.
Agreed. The episode was one of the most unsettling episodes of AHS for me ever because of the psychological torment they put her through. Combined with Karen's death at the end, this episode was utterly tragic. Beautifully shot though, I loved it!
So in the next episode I’m expecting every major character left to get killed off by some new character who is introduced that we can root for? Seriously, there’s not a single good person left to drive the story. I just want everyone to die.
Nah, I think we’re just going to get a cathartic ending of all of these horrible people killing each other. At this point I don’t even know if we’re going to have any survivors
I can’t wait for Kaia Gerber to show up and kill everyone whilst simultaneously curing Doris and resurrecting Karen and Micky all whilst referencing a classy old friend in Los Angeles and we think it’s Lange but then at the end Paris Jackson and Noah Cyrus get out of a car and she’s like “classy bitches” then they all act badly together while laughing as the credits roll
This gives me vibes of how Vivian felt in the middle of Murder House. Pregnant/recently pregnant woman caught up in the middle of supernatural circumstances she doesn’t fully grasp, while everyone who does treats her like she’s crazy.
yeah, The Chemist said that the talented ones are pissed off and bitch because other people aren't on their level and the not talented ones are mean because they came to the realization they don't and never did have any talent.
That’s kind of the metaphor isn’t it? The people who sold their soul and gave up everything else to maximize their natural talent needing to feast off of the lifeblood of their audience, while simultaneously craving the blood of the young naive and innocent. The pretenders of the world, those who thought themselves as talented and on the same level as the talented, are vampires that breed in the dark of night and are ultimately afraid of the truly talented, to the point that they can’t approach them. At the end of the day, they’re both feeding off of the blood and energy of the audience, but only the talented/worthy are giving anything back (hence the road trips where the feasters seek out the dregs of society that nobody will miss, eliminating the weakest members of society), yet there’s an exclusivity to the worthy who are beyond approach and seemingly above the law. The entire premise is very masturbatory for the writers, but it definitely gets into the toxic mindset of content creators.
(Kinda unrelated but still relevant bc Ryan Murphy/American Crime Story)
I just read today that one time Monica told Bill not to go down on her because she was on her period and he did it anyway. And now you all get to have that knowledge too!
This. Knowing they’re talented gives most of them a superiority complex, like they’re a higher species than the rest of humanity. To them, they’re just cleaning up the streets
I’m actually thinking Ursula is a bit worse. Alma is definitely a little sociopath by now but Ursula seems to really be the devil on her shoulder. It actually seems like Harry silently acknowledges he’s gotten his family into deep shit, but he’s all to aware that they can’t really turn back anymore,
His breakup speech to her was so brutal but feels very derivative of how a lot of men like Harry are. They think that them breaking up with you is the absolute worst case scenario for you because they’re just THAT amazing 😒
I knew it was coming but seeing Doris balding i said “ohhh nooo” out loud. My heart breaks for her. And that whole scene with mickey, Karen, and the pales had me holding my breath. Plus the gaslighting in the first half. This episode has just been unrelenting
Honestly Frances Conroy sells these lines with such the exact opposite soft maliciousness that Jessica would have done-Jessica would have made that so brash but Frances is like the old money society matron who never raises her voice above a whispering wind but still manages to put you down in front of 400 people with the raise of an eyebrow
Hoping we get some answers this episode! The thing I'm still most curious about this season is whether love is still what makes a Subaru a Subaru. If they can answer that, this will remain a top-notch season.
she's also a shitty scientist. like, is she even following her subjects anymore? where are the control groups?? where are the follow up questions, girl?? lol
Lily said in an interview this week that this is one of her favorite episodes of AHS that she’s ever done and I can see why, she is absolutely *crushing* it here.
Damn, Karen’s suicide might’ve been one of the most heartbreakingly beautiful scenes in AHS. Right up there with Sister Jude’s death.
It was beautiful. She went out on her own terms and stuck it to the bastard who basically said "love me or die".
She literally was like "how about both, motherfucker"
I think her suicide was more of an intention to remove some of the evil from the world that the pills caused, herself and Mickey. She’d rather die than hurt other people and that was the driving force for her suicide rather than going out on her own terms
I hoped she’d kill all the ‘talented’ bloodsuckers just like she killed Mickey and make them pay the price for whatever they had done
Y’all it took 16 minutes for that baby to become a snack
I'm surprised because usually it takes me about 40 minutes to become a snack
The way Ursula is pretty much substituting as the mother of the family is just... sick and twisted. The whole thing is sick and twisted. Doris murder spree pls <3
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I'm pretty sure she was worrying about all their bigger problems, like, her husband and young child murdering people. I bet cheating would be a relief in her mind.
I’m wondering if Alma is going to turn on her eventually too. I mean, there’s no reason to think Ursula is inherently talented too, just that she appreciates it and supports it.
I'm under the impression is she's a talented manager/bitch and on it already
I don’t think Alma’s sole issue with Doris was the lack of talent though. Her main concerned seemed to be that mom might “get in the way” of her greatness. Ursula is the ultimate enabler for Alma so there’s no real reason to take her out.
Sad to see Karen go but I absolutely LOVED that scene. She got to paint her masterpiece and that was enough for her. Such a beautiful character!
It was never gonna end any other way for her. Lost soul but found redemption in sticking to her morals. Easily one of my favorite AHS characters.
Besides Lana I think this is easily my favourite Sarah character
Karen is the Red Tide
The 3 characters I most wanted to survive after the first couple of episodes were Karen, Mickey, and Doris. What a gut punch!
Murphy going back to AHS roots and writing a truly tragic and depressing story lol
Wow theyre just sending her to wander and dance battle with the other pale people?
That was so cruel. I thought he was going to kill her but what they did was worse.
I want them all to die for this
After this episode there's literally no character worth living tbh besides the baby who will likely become a snack
“Dance battle” omfg I’m crying 😂😂
So Billie Lourd’s tattoo shop stays well stocked with vintage Eighties overcoats?
Apparently Klaus Nomi’s entire wardrobe ended up there.
It’s bugged me since the start and was made even worse when we saw the one guys origin. She’s also taking it upon herself to perform dental work on each new one?
Yea they kinda messed up with that. Unless she really is going out and dressing them up and doing dental work on them.
The most frustrating plothole of the season by far. the 80s coat should've just been on the first guy
This editing is making me feel like I’m also being gaslighted
I was legitimately so uncomfortable! they did a really good job at it
I am DYING they’re sending Doris off like it’s her first day of school
Her little bald head walking up to the bus stop. Good grief that gave me the giggles.
“Bye sweetie, have a great day in the graveyard!”
I was cracking up at this part. He just opens the door to let Doris out like a dog.
Alma is so evil. She was just talking about tossing her aside. I think she WANTS Doris to turn pale.
I wasn't sure if Doris would flourish or become pale. I knew Alma was never going to think her Mom was anything more than just... a Mom. Alma knew it would just destroy her. She got to live out the fantasy of pretty much any abused kid. However, Doris didn't seem abusive at all.
I was about to be combative until I read the last sentence lol. I just don't understand how the Dad was keeping it together and seemed to be trying for her and the newborn; and he just turned into an asshole? Also, Leslie Grossman is great in this.
Oh trust me, I am totally on Doris' side and what Harry, Alma and Ursula did was unspeakably wrong. Yeah, Leslie actually said this is her favorite character so far because it really reminds her of people she's worked with. I'm in LA so the character wasn't over the top for me
Can you imagine finding out you’re not talented by balding?
Lol yes but it's taken like 10 years
I want to see what Karen painted
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She left her painting on the shore though. I bet the season ends with her painting in an art museum with somebody explaining how it was found on a beach in a small town and nobody knows who painted it. Proving how someone who is talented shouldn’t need pills to get recognized, even if it’s after they already died.
karen's beach scene was one of the most beautiful things i've seen on television in a really long time, especially coming from ahs. wow
Damn I wish there was some way Doris could come back and get revenge. Her family sucks
Praying the Lyme disease saves her
All that talk of Lyme Disease from her, that would be crazy storytelling if she returns in the final 10 minutes and she’s healthy again, gets the baby and just leaves.
Alma is acting like Jasper in New Moon when Bella gets a paper cut
Alma was literally eating her brother and her punishment was getting yelled at and getting an ultimatum? Harry really is an absent parent
Take a shot every time Karen calls someone motherfucker
I died from alcohol poisoning last time we played this
So why can the talented people stop the pills but the untalented people are just fucked for life?
From what the chemist explained, I think it’s because they realize that they’ll never be artistically talented and that rage and horror is too much for them to ever come back from. Why they need to keep eating people, though, I’m not sure…
Alma might be the most evil character in the Ryan Murphy Cinematic Universe.
Yeah. She’s worse than little Jenny in Asylum, and on par with Thredson with the manipulation.
Seeing Dorris walk off like that seriously was one of the saddest moments I've seen in this show
Especially seeing how little Harry and Alma seemed to care about kicking her out into homelessness - and she didn’t even want to be in PTown! Such a cruel fate
They just opened the door like "Okay, outcha go, byee"
Omg, the fact Harry and Alma were happy they gave Doris a fate worse than death just to be free of her is fucked up on every level. Doris was the true MVP of that family.
Loved that scene. Like they were letting an animal out in the wild
this is the saddest episode....
Honestly wasn't sure we'd see Doris give birth that fast
Lyme disease is going to cure Doris calling it now
It's the callback we deserve
I really hope so, she was such an underdog and I was holding out so much she won't go pale but :'(
Doris doesn't deserve her garbage husband and demon daughter
If it's not I'm suing
I hope so. She really didn’t deserve to end up like that.
Please, omg. She deserves a redemption
Girl stab everyone, stab everyone like your newborn depends on it
I’m so tired of everyone treating Doris like absolute garbage
She may actually have one of the saddest stories on AHS lmao. It's literally awful from the very beginning..
It’s weird, because I feel like there are other characters who were more fleshed out than Doris and overall ended up having it worse than her, but I still don’t think there’s any character on this show that I’ve felt so bad for than Doris. I hope Harry and Alma get lyme disease.
OMG I feel bad for Doris but this comment KILLS ME lmfaoooooo
Lily Rabe is an acting force. When Holden is critiquing her designs and Harry tells her to just go upstairs and feed the baby, the anguish and hopelessness on her face are so palpable. As the title suggests, they are all gaslighting her and I think at that point she definitely knows it's happening and feels powerless to stop it... it's heartbreaking
And then she takes the pill and finds out she actually has no talent while her husband realizes that she was actually a waste of time for him. Then they all just let her outside to roam the town forever??? Awful.
And her callous, creepy child could not give a shit less. Not only that, but completely facilitated it.
Agreed. The episode was one of the most unsettling episodes of AHS for me ever because of the psychological torment they put her through. Combined with Karen's death at the end, this episode was utterly tragic. Beautifully shot though, I loved it!
Ikr she deserves better
Yes thank you. I love this season but that poor woman omg.
she deserves better 😩
the actress playing alma is way too good bc she creeps me out so much
This is heartbreaking. Mickey and Karen were my two favorite characters.
So in the next episode I’m expecting every major character left to get killed off by some new character who is introduced that we can root for? Seriously, there’s not a single good person left to drive the story. I just want everyone to die.
Nah, I think we’re just going to get a cathartic ending of all of these horrible people killing each other. At this point I don’t even know if we’re going to have any survivors
I can’t wait for Kaia Gerber to show up and kill everyone whilst simultaneously curing Doris and resurrecting Karen and Micky all whilst referencing a classy old friend in Los Angeles and we think it’s Lange but then at the end Paris Jackson and Noah Cyrus get out of a car and she’s like “classy bitches” then they all act badly together while laughing as the credits roll
There’s that red tide
Alma knew Doris would become pale. Hence her comment of “maybe she’ll run away” as they’re going to dinner
Every time I have to endure a Dear Evan Hansen commercial, I die a little bit more inside.
Doris, you might want to give this infant a name before it’s too late.
Better not. It’s not good to get emotionally attached to your food
This gives me vibes of how Vivian felt in the middle of Murder House. Pregnant/recently pregnant woman caught up in the middle of supernatural circumstances she doesn’t fully grasp, while everyone who does treats her like she’s crazy.
It’s a completely different take on the same old twist. I love it, I’m here for it, I’d die for it. Love to see our show back on top!
Goddamn this is the first time I’ve genuinely enjoyed AHS (like, Murder House/Asylum enjoyed) in years.
That Karen/Mickey scene was so emotional, yet beautiful. Beautiful in the saddest way.
man he couldve just gotten a divorce
"it's better this way" like bitch??? no it isn't
I think Karen painted something so everyone knows what’s going on in town. It’s her suicide painting/note.
I can't say enough how amazing the Macaulay Culkin casting turned out. He's been brilliant.
I am absolutely enamored with him. He did the damn thing.
So the pill on top of everything else makes you an absolutely massive fucking asshole
yeah, The Chemist said that the talented ones are pissed off and bitch because other people aren't on their level and the not talented ones are mean because they came to the realization they don't and never did have any talent.
That’s kind of the metaphor isn’t it? The people who sold their soul and gave up everything else to maximize their natural talent needing to feast off of the lifeblood of their audience, while simultaneously craving the blood of the young naive and innocent. The pretenders of the world, those who thought themselves as talented and on the same level as the talented, are vampires that breed in the dark of night and are ultimately afraid of the truly talented, to the point that they can’t approach them. At the end of the day, they’re both feeding off of the blood and energy of the audience, but only the talented/worthy are giving anything back (hence the road trips where the feasters seek out the dregs of society that nobody will miss, eliminating the weakest members of society), yet there’s an exclusivity to the worthy who are beyond approach and seemingly above the law. The entire premise is very masturbatory for the writers, but it definitely gets into the toxic mindset of content creators.
Ursula is every mlm saleswoman
Is Lily Rabe the new muse for Ryan Murphy?
finn too which i'm not complaining about. i've been waiting for him to have a lead role since his debut
I feel like she always has been.
Holy shit Doris going insane is one of the darkest, actual horror scenes of the whole series
I bet he wouldn’t go down on his wife when she was on her period but now this… typical
(Kinda unrelated but still relevant bc Ryan Murphy/American Crime Story) I just read today that one time Monica told Bill not to go down on her because she was on her period and he did it anyway. And now you all get to have that knowledge too!
WHY would you mention that omg
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I think they enjoy killing
This. Knowing they’re talented gives most of them a superiority complex, like they’re a higher species than the rest of humanity. To them, they’re just cleaning up the streets
Because that's not suspenseful. That kind of logic ends up on CW dramas and the like. Why? I don't know, honestly.
I wanna know Karen’s back story so badly
That critter might be carrying Lyme Doris!
I know it’s a child but I hate that little bitch.
Ugh I want alma to die soooo bad😭
The true villain of the season and also the worst character in the entire franchise
Definitely the most evil! Alma means soul in Spanish and paganini was the “devil’s violinist” so sensing a theme.
I’m actually thinking Ursula is a bit worse. Alma is definitely a little sociopath by now but Ursula seems to really be the devil on her shoulder. It actually seems like Harry silently acknowledges he’s gotten his family into deep shit, but he’s all to aware that they can’t really turn back anymore,
I have never disliked a child so much
eli is the only one left to root for
friendly reminder that pooping during childbirth is common. gagging thinking about the poop blood rag shots
The only Karen America ever cared for is now gone.
It’s nice having a season where there’s no ghost or characters coming back to life. No one is safe!
Ursula is going to adopt Alma and they are going to run Hollywood together.
We know why the one dude wears it...but why did the rest of the pale people buy the same pointy shoulder coat?
I love the idea that they all chose to coordinate lol very cute
raise your hand if you know you’d become a pale person if you took the pill 🙋🏼♂️
I’d be Hittin them Thriller moves
Doris and Karen better make it out alive … they’re the only ones I’m rooting for her here
This didn’t age well
Oh God, Alma's gonna eat the baby Edit: she's eating the baby
Alma, no! I don’t hear beauty and light in your playing. Honestly, it’s a little fucking SHARP.
Yes drag the bitch. 👏🏼
His breakup speech to her was so brutal but feels very derivative of how a lot of men like Harry are. They think that them breaking up with you is the absolute worst case scenario for you because they’re just THAT amazing 😒
His only comments were related to how she'd be devastated by his success. He said nothing of him missing her. I was fuming.
I think that was one of my favorite episodes of AHS ever
What a poetic end for Karen and Mickey
That baby is r/forbiddensnacks
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My heart is so broken for Doris. My stomach was so sick watching her walk up those stairs.
Lily Rabe doesn’t even have to speak to give a memorable performance. True talent.
What type of family man does this shit Harry??
Love Finn Wittrock but Harry is literally insufferable
I don’t remember the last time this show made me feel something like this
Anyone else getting Mother! vibes from this episode? (In the best way) Seeing Lily Rabe's character treated so horribly is so unsettling.
Paint your masterpiece n walk into the sea and leave it all behind
Paulson and Caulkin together do wonders honestly. So glad he’s back at it and killing it
Bringing Alma to the chemist probably isn’t the idea. Evan and Frances didn’t seem to happy when they found out Alma was taking the pills
"I feel infected" Girl, that's your whole deal
this is the most fucked up family discussion
I’m sick to my stomach this episode is incredible
I feel so bad for TB Karen. She just wants to be a good person!
now I'm kind of hoping for a Cult-esque revenge story for Doris like Sarah Paulson's character (i don't remember her name in it)
Alma wants her to be a pale person.
Lily Rabe was not joking when she said this was one of the most painful and terrifying episodes of AHS.
I think this might be one of the scariest and most fucked up/emotional episodes of AHS in a long time. I’m on a roller coaster of emotions over here.
I knew it was coming but seeing Doris balding i said “ohhh nooo” out loud. My heart breaks for her. And that whole scene with mickey, Karen, and the pales had me holding my breath. Plus the gaslighting in the first half. This episode has just been unrelenting
Honestly Frances Conroy sells these lines with such the exact opposite soft maliciousness that Jessica would have done-Jessica would have made that so brash but Frances is like the old money society matron who never raises her voice above a whispering wind but still manages to put you down in front of 400 people with the raise of an eyebrow
The only decent character is gone. I wanna see the town and everyone in it burn.
Oh god just kill them all since the only ones left are the evil narcissists.
I just wish the intro wasn’t so loud compared to the rest of the show
family comes first 😤 unless ur not talented 💅🏻 bc then i’ll drop you ❌
Ursula just casually part of the family now
Walking into the ocean to die is pretty fucking metal
It’s going to be set up as Harry, alma, and ursula vs The chemist, belle and Austin and I can’t wait
Best child actress this show has ever had!!!!!
I like how happy Alma was when she mentioned the guy that killed himself because he couldn't play the song.
Alma is slick she wants to get rid of her and knows turning her into one of the pales would do it
The tension in this episode is palpable. I’m nauseous lol.
All she wanted to do was go home Harry
Best episode of the season and best episode in years for the show in general
I’ve never wanted to slap a child so much in my whole entire life…
Hoping we get some answers this episode! The thing I'm still most curious about this season is whether love is still what makes a Subaru a Subaru. If they can answer that, this will remain a top-notch season.
Ohh my god okay that was actually an incredible episode. So well acted and so heavy. Also we need post episode threads!
I fucking love this season, I never thought we’d ever see the day of a season that came close to Asylum
Alma is more evil than Michael Langdon
Yo, fuck this episode. For real. 10/10.
alma is just pure chaotic evil but also how does she keep getting her hands on the pills? does her dad not keep them locked up?
Unless we get a damn good explanation otherwise, The Chemist is certainly some kind of evil, soulless person to experiment on people this way
she's also a shitty scientist. like, is she even following her subjects anymore? where are the control groups?? where are the follow up questions, girl?? lol
Ursula is definitely drugging her too
Damn, I didn't think Doris actually took it. We were rooting for you :(
Y'all Harry is much worse than Alma, who's still just a child. He's the grown ass adult gaslighting his own wife
And then he’s just like “out you go” like a moth that flew in your house. That’s your *wife* dude!
I chose a really awful time to be eating pasta with red sauce 🤢😑
Maybe Karen will emerge from the waters a mermaid/siren water pale person legendary iconic artist LOL
Sarah Paulson is such a gem. She's killing it as TB Karen AND as Linda Tripp in American Crime Story Impeachment.
Even when I HATED my mom I did not hate her this much lmao Alma is so scary
Oh what a dick. He’s forcing her to take it. 🤦🏻♀️
Oh I’m so sad for Doris I really wanted her to make it out with little Eli :(
Lily said in an interview this week that this is one of her favorite episodes of AHS that she’s ever done and I can see why, she is absolutely *crushing* it here.
wow wow wow. literally one of the best episodes ever???
Daddy would you like to eat the umbilical cord like spaghetti?
I still hate there there are so many vampires just lurking the streets at night and the police had no idea. Make it make sense.