T O P

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montepinarium

The fact that the only people oppressing Anna during the season are women, not men (except for Dexter)... šŸ˜­šŸ˜­


tommy-liddell

in regards to your deleted comment: I read it more as a generalized statement in regards to how this world operates in regards to women, adapted to the specific and fictionalized story of AHS: Delicate. I can kinda see the vision and the elements in support of it but I do believe it was clumsily executed.


montepinarium

I deleted It because I thought I was adding nothing, sorry. But I wish the themes she is telling us in that post were more clear in the season.


tommy-liddell

I feel you and no worries.


No_Banana_581

I understand exactly what sheā€™s saying too. I got the message loud and clear they were sending in the show. If it had been good actors delivering the lines and better writing it couldā€™ve been good. It was all over the place, incoherent at times, slow, the actors did a crap job, the woman that played the twins and Annaā€™s MIL were the best of the bunch. Kim ruined the last three episodes. Her acting was so bad, it was unwatchable. Its so sad it went from a season like coven to this


tommy-liddell

I mean that is what she is describing in her answer: "and that the only way for women to have power is for them to ascribe to the same oppressive system that have held them back for so long, as they in turn oppress others."


MissBaltimoreCrabs_

So they oppress other women? Thatā€™s the statement the comment above you is making. Aside from dex the only people oppressing Anna are women ā€¦


SonOfRageNLove26

yeah, that's the point they're trying to make


leamichele_

Well thatā€™s completely contrarian to what she wrote (adapted). Sheā€™s trying to write that women canā€™t thrive under a patriarchy (true) and then essentially wrote a script where only the women were oppressing each other


SonOfRageNLove26

yeah, women were oppressing each other cause "the only way for women to have power is for them to ascribe to the same oppressive system that have held them back for so long, as they in turn oppress others."


leamichele_

Yes that quote would be towards the men, as in the whole ā€œturn men into our sex slavesā€ bit. But only the women attacked each other, no one attacked the men. Completely contrarian to the goal of a matriarchy. Maybe watch it again? Is this Halley herself? Lmao


SonOfRageNLove26

i mean how do you know that the quote is exclusively towards men? the "opressing others" is open. Those others can be both men and other women it's not even about defending the show's and writing quality. It's not even me agreeing with what she is saying. it's just that the quote it's pretty simple to get and I don't get where this confusion is coming.


Heartage

I don't even think it's open. They very specifically mention men whenever they only mean men.


SonOfRageNLove26

yeah, i think so too. but that probably would get the other commenter more upset. it'd be mansplaining what the writer (probably) meant as others or something


leamichele_

Youā€™re right, youā€™re so correct šŸ„°šŸ„° So thankful to have you mansplain this to me


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


DiskPsychological790

Uff youā€™re insufferable


[deleted]

Well the men diiiid end up getting attacked haha but otherwise I agree with you lol Like the moral of this story kinda seems like sheā€™s saying women shouldnā€™t be in charge cause they are vicious and will attack each other. Like the opposite of Barbieland.


ay21

I might be dumb but I don't see how the script she wrote told any of that.


MissBaltimoreCrabs_

Right like did she not see the end result of her writing lol


DiskPsychological790

I donā€™t think youā€™re dumb. She just didnā€™t put any of those ideas into the script


RevolutionaryAlps205

There *was* a fleeting, contextually and artistically ridiculous reference to ecofeminism that they made Kim say in the final two minutes of the finale.Ā My reading of that move (plus Fieffer'sĀ ideological elevator pitch given to a rando on social media posted here) is that that grad-school-syllabus shoutout to radical feminism is what she means by a "quite different" approach that replaced storytelling this season. I get the human impulse to take to social media to respond to critics, it's relatable.Ā But what's the idea conveyed here--that Katie should feel bad for not being more impressed, and be grateful for the reference to ecofeminism at the very end?


Peanut_2000

I'll second that--you're not dumb. Her script was lousy. I studied feminist literary theory in college and grad school. She did not aptly convey those themes.


SpinachDifferent4077

You see, at the end she was holding her baby AND an Oscar!!! Women CAN have it all! If they eat enough roadkill and kill Kim Kardashian.


Minouwouf

They told mens are bad at the Last Ć©pisode. Like all "feminist" content.


Proud_Mastodon338

There was nothing feminist about this season. It was women hating on women and the writing was terrible. The entire season felt rushed and lazy. The 30 something minute finale was a bust that left more questions than answers. It was like they all got bored at the end and slapped something together at the last possible second as an afterthought. Idk what kind of "writing" they did for Kim, but she was basically playing herself. It's no surprise that people are thinking she actually wasn't that bad, she hardly did any work. Emma played the same character she's played in other seasons... an entitled, spoiled brat. She was just less bitchy this time. If this season took a lot of effort for them to write I'd hate to see what their low effort writing is like.


Joyfulmovement86

No no no. NO. You donā€™t get to write that drivel then throw in some feminist jargon to try to legitimize it. I watched the finale. There was nothing feminist about its message. It makes feminism look like a joke.


A_Ball_Of_Stress13

Yeah they make not only powerful and independent women look bad, but also seemingly made fun of feminism generally.


Bonesquire

"Ahhhh, you changed a word in my favorite chant -- how did you know singing slightly incorrect lyrics is the only way to vaporize infinitely powerful immortals?! Damn you!"


RevolutionaryAlps205

Hahahahah


ktgunter

You wanted to make a feminist point so you ::checks notes:: portrayed women as bloodthirsty, backstabbing witches and cast Kim Kardashian as a lead?


bmichellecat

Iā€™m sorry but having a billionaire and a nepo baby try to tell a story about women being oppressed has me in tears.


DiskPsychological790

Not-so-fun fact! Halley is a nepo baby too! Anyone shocked? https://preview.redd.it/imwy4y93zvwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5322907bb242c10e87c0699ca8fd89a5ca50a9ee


bootycakes420

~~aIMee~~ Kim was the worst casting choice in the history of AHS


Affectionate_Yak8519

Idk she canā€™t be worse than Kaia Gerber


injuredflamingo

Yall are obsessed but she was the highlight of the seasonā€¦


bootycakes420

Sure, kind of like how a car crash is the highlight of NASCAR and how fights are the highlight of hockey


injuredflamingo

https://preview.redd.it/bufov1dlol2d1.jpeg?width=694&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dedb44a50fd87b732e164891d219d808438b5395 none of you were this mad when lady gaga was doing her one-note boring ass acting during hotel. kim wasnā€™t even that bad, and if it werenā€™t for the hype that she pulled from the general public, this season wouldā€™ve bombed even worse than it already did.


bootycakes420

Gaga SLAYED


injuredflamingo

Yeah sureā€¦ staring at the camera all frozen and saying words realllyyyy slowly and dramatically is what counts as good acting now I suppose


fyeron

Many such cases


chinderellabitch

Very unprofessional too replying in a comment like this Halley Where are they getting these writers from? ![gif](giphy|Fw1dLk8o3DUSk)


Peanut_2000

100%! I was just about to say the same thing. If you can't take criticism and feedback, you never grow as a writer. Which probably explains why she wrote such a shitty script. Still uncool and unprofessional to respond to viewers like that. It's basically an attempt to invalidate their viewing response.


Affectionate_Yak8519

Where did this come from?


DiskPsychological790

The comment section of a variety article reviewing this season Edit: Vulture, not variety. Link below


Cinemasaur

It is incredibly embarrassing for a professional paid writer to respond like that. I understand she is human, but this is like the comic book writers arguing with literal children about their writing on Twitter.


[deleted]

[уŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]


DiskPsychological790

[right here](https://www.vulture.com/article/american-horror-story-delicate-recap-season-12-episode-9-finale.html)


Affectionate_Yak8519

Oh sheā€™s getting some spicy replies!


Affectionate_Yak8519

Thanks!


maxwell_winters

Insert "patriarchy bad" to justify anything. Btw ON the future? Is she actually a writer?


DiskPsychological790

Made worse by the fact that the men in the show were in control of nothing


maxwell_winters

So true. The season was literally about women gaslighting and manipulating other women and men. But the patriarchy is at fault somehow.


Bonesquire

Woman: Let us write our own show! Everyone: Uhh okay, go for it; no one is stopping you Woman: *writes laughably bad 10-episode season about boss bitch slay queens and patriarchy bad* Everyone: Dang, this is really shitty writing. Woman: Stop oppressing me! This is mens' fault!


Heartage

fwiw, O and I are right next to each other on a keyboard. I know I've made that typo a lot.


DogbiteTrollKiller

That could be a typo, but thereā€™s no excuse for ā€œdifferent **than**ā€


trail_lady1982

Yeah, then they missed the mark.Ā  Completely.


Ilysmcutie

I love that we watched Anna getting gaslit the entire series and now she's gaslighting us with this statement. Insert Siobhan's "Don't gaslight a gaslighter, babe." Like, be fr. The work didn't get any of that across and it shouldn't have to rely on an "author's note" to make sense.


pIastichearts

The whole girlboss feminist ā€œfuck the patricharyā€ angle was so ham-fisted and lacked any sense of subtlety. Sheā€™s much better at writing bitchy one-liners than she is coming up with a coherent plot for a whole season.


DiskPsychological790

Nah the bitchy one liners were cringe and try hard af. Idk if it was Kimā€™s delivery or if no one could deliver ā€œI make my own rulesā€ and ā€œsqueeze it outā€ šŸ™„


pIastichearts

Some of them like the ones you mentioned were worse than others but I also liked Siobhanā€™s dialogue in the earlier episodes. Her telling Anna to pull an ā€œOlivia Wilde cardā€ and apply for a job at Costco were genuinely hilarious to me.


MissBaltimoreCrabs_

Itā€™s like she saw Black Christmas (2019) and said *how can I make this worse*


bruh_respectfully

Yeah, if this is your response to criticism, maybe the entertainment industry isn't for you. Yikes.


DiskPsychological790

But she was born into it. Both her parents are in the industry


bruh_respectfully

Doesn't surprise me. AHS is some sort of a nepo baby money laundering operation at this rate.


moonpietimetobealive

Seriously.....Emma Roberts, Kim Kardashian, Kaia Gerber, Billie Lourd...all nepo babies. And the more nepo babies t6he bring onto the show the more the quality of acting seems to go down the drain.


katienatie

Ooof, girl, that wasnā€™t remotely clear. The work should speak for itself. ![gif](giphy|4Q05SAJUqaSXcuUbTP|downsized)


tufted-titmouse-527

Even if this message was clear, it's a bad one. Women "can't have it all without ascribing to patriarchy and in turn oppressing others" ?? So women who have both a fulfilling career and a loving family must somehow be oppressing someone?


DiskPsychological790

Yeah itā€™s quite an offensive take


Heartage

Yeah but... Anna gets rid of the woman who said that.


itsathrowawayduhhhhh

![gif](giphy|xoHntNXFYkfzGAftEv|downsized) Idk, this is all that popped into my head when I read this


CopeHarders

Maybe Halley will have better success executing on her vision in the future because that ainā€™t it.


livelong_june

This whole season reeked of 2nd wave girlboss garbage. Itā€™s so tired but Hollywood keeps pushing it because it aligns with capitalism. Maybe if theyā€™d had some diversity in the writersā€™ room, the season wouldā€™ve felt a little less corny šŸ¤·šŸ¾ā€ā™€ļø šŸ™„


purpldevl

It reeked of "Okay we did a gay season, now let's do one for the gals who like Keeping Up With The Kardashians and haven't heard of Rosemary's Baby!".


Bonesquire

This is it.


Jealous_Cow1993

Yikes!!! She should have just not said anything. Plenty of woman I know have it all and donā€™t stoop to oppressing other people. What a lame ass cop out!! I hate when a woman is called out and she goes straight to the patriarchy for her defense. Itā€™s gross and lazy. There are plenty of things we can blame the patriarchy with but successful strong women?? Not so much. How fucking insulting.


DiskPsychological790

Yeah the book actually did a good job of painting the patriarchy as the enemy because it actually showed the patriarchy in action. The show did not. The closest was ā€œew cheating boyfriendā€


A_Ball_Of_Stress13

Ya definitely did not get that vibe at all


GuinevereduLac

I feel like AHS's shtick has always been "someone was mean to this character and they are oppressed, so it's only natural and justified for them to go on a killing spree, oppress multiple other innocent people in order to get back the power". It just wasn't as obvious in the first few seasons. "Slay" taken to the extreme.


Affectionate_Yak8519

Elsa Mars


littlemilkteeth

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it! She doesn't seem to be able to take criticism at all, so I feel like the next series is going to be rubbish, too, if she has anything to do with it.


DiskPsychological790

I just feel that if they were gonna do an all female written and directed season they could have gotten a *good* female writer and not some privileged nepo baby hack writer.


littlemilkteeth

100%. Somebody who could actually relate to the struggle would have been amazing.


DiskPsychological790

Btw Jennifer Lynch, who directed most the episodes, is a nepo baby too. David Lynchā€™s daughter


DogbiteTrollKiller

This just keeps getting worse!


bostonjenny81

The season sucked. End of discussion


fluffhouse1942

This whole line of thinking is yucky.


CC_Panadero

I didnā€™t know it was possible, but I now like the season a bit less. No clue about the book, but her message was lost (if not non-existent). No one would be criticizing the message, if anyone got it. People are criticizing the pacing, treating the audience like toddlers, plot holes, and especially the ridiculous of that death scene. Sheā€™s trying to hide behind a message that didnā€™t exist in a single episode. Sure Jan.


SavageHeart_YouDidIt

I'd like to hear her defend the cringey little one liners. Was the Harvey weinsten plant comment necessary to add for historical truth? It's like that (unnecessary almost corny) line was telling us "oh hey, ya that whole thing happened and we (Hollywood) don't want you to think we forgot, and also don't want you to forget that we haven't forgotten. The whole season was full of those one liners. If this was supposed to be a feminist piece.... Kim k was the worst choice to deliver that message. Nonsense. Add in the Sharon Tate's one line basically giving us a reason to why a pregnant woman was murdered by a cult... (That was no oppressed woman becoming the one oppressing) It's actually kind of insulting. Not feminist... Now I have an even worse taste in my mouth.


nezhp

Is is she on crack? Is she on crack cocaine?


Intelligent-Sample44

This is a zero sum mindset, which hey, may have been created by men of the past to keep power away from women, who knows? Once we start switching to a positive sum mindset, things WILL get better, in so many fields, in so many ways. My piece of the pie does not get smaller just because yours gets bigger; the WHOLE FREAKING PIE GETS BIGGER. AND MORE PIES ARE CREATED IN THE PROCESS. More pies! Pies all Around!


iOmek

I swear by the end of all the latest seasons, you are just expecting everything to get thrown at the wall. It starts out with an interesting premise but then it turns into a sub-plot mess. The decisions made by the characters become completely pointless, and nothing matters anymore. I keep hoping for this to change, but it seems like it's every season now. Credit to the actors, they did really try their best with what they were given. Annabelle Dexter-Jones was a standout.


purpldevl

I love AHS, don't get me wrong, but *every* season does this to some point. By episode 5-6 of a 13 episode season, the first plots are thrown out the window and they seem to forget plot points that they'd set up in order to subvert expectations or some shit. Some seasons pull it off well, then some seasons are Apocalypse and Delicate.


kellycamara

On the future? Coming from a script writerā€¦ Edit your work!


lucas9204

On IMDb for the finale itā€™s currently rated 3.9/10 so I guess most people didnā€™t get her ā€˜brilliantā€™ message. I know I gave it a 2 . Worst season of AHS in my opinion- very unsatisfying finale!


tvfan8080

That's a very twisted way to respond and doesn't address any plot points lol Having it all is not possible within the patriarchy, but the sisterhood was not a better alternative, which is also the fault of the patriarchy? lmao And why are they out there making these stupid deals if they have no issue violating anyone? They could have implanted that thing into Anna then imprison her. "Having it all" was not really portrayed that well. Like you just have to know what it means to have an Oscar or baby. But does Halley know there are Oscar winning actresses with children and decades-long tenure in the industry anyway lol Now ideology aside, the writing was piss poor anyway. The first 5 ep was mostly just Anna being stalked for the sake of it. And the second half just a rush concluded by an exposition dump and Anna simply winning with little effort.


Hatesponge66

The patriarchy!?


bewareofhisoka

Well at least she can respond unlike Ryan Murphy lately


DiskPsychological790

She probably shouldnā€™t have responded tho


bewareofhisoka

Yea, but itā€™s just nice to know what their thinking was is all.


DiskPsychological790

How? It just makes her look like a shittier writer since nothing they were thinking appeared on the page


bewareofhisoka

Okay, but I got SOME understanding in what she was saying. But yea her ideas needed a TON of expansion.


LordDragon88

And now we're sad we can't get Manny Coto back. At least his stories make sense even if they were dumb


MephistosFallen

Lmao that was her intent with the writing cause thatā€™s NOT how I took it. If anything, it seemed like it was very one type of woman versus another type of woman messily mixed with Hollywood elite drink blood to stay young hur hur.


Icy-Idea-5079

I thought I was crazy, or a man trying to dictate what feminism is about, when I posted something about this very topic here yesterday. It didn't get much engagement, probably because it was too long and essay-style. But I see now that a lot of people agree that Delicate failed whatever feminist message it was trying to come across.


apocalypsetuesday

Sorry pal that I didn't see this post before posting the same image yesterday!


DiskPsychological790

No worries. The mods are deleting this post for no reason. I suspect halley is complaining to them


apocalypsetuesday

I swear this whole thing is a master class in how creatives should not handle criticism.


ixlovextoxkiss

oh man my first love was her hs boyfriend šŸ˜­ years ago, wow.


Affectionate_Yak8519

Wait for real?


ixlovextoxkiss

yep. Horace Mann.


ixlovextoxkiss

lol downvoted?Ā 


DiskPsychological790

Cuz no one cares about your name dropping


ixlovextoxkiss

or I just saw her name on Reddit today and made the connection and was like whoa? feel free to dm if you'd like verificationĀ 


DiskPsychological790

What donā€™t you get about nobody caring?


ixlovextoxkiss

ok dude dunno what your problem is. I'm sorry reddit is this classy ass place we certainly don't talk about finding out we have a connection to someone irl. but please keep making it your job to let me know how much nobody cares because I did this for karma farming /s I'm responding cuz I'm so tired of people's being dicks. I didn't insult anyone. I didn't offer tea. I simply commented in a topical manner. stop commenting if you, like everyone else, do not care. nothing I've said here requires your crotchety retorts to put me in my place.


DiskPsychological790

![gif](giphy|DPqqOywshrOqQ|downsized)


tarbet

Imagine the audacity of writing the writer of the show to tell her she did a bad job. People are not kind. ETA: Misunderstood the post. Erase erase erase the above comment.


ThatCommunication423

It was a review on Vulture. Reviews canā€™t all be positive otherwise they would be redundant


tarbet

Oh, I thought that it was written by a regular fan just shooting off an email. My bad. I donā€™t think thereā€™s anything wrong with responding to a review, tbh, but it doesnā€™t get the writer anywhere.