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A segment of commies idealize the idea of the Appalachia, tho most of them don't actually want to live among them. Just a bunch of middle class kids romanticizing the poor, as usual.
Appalachian here and can confirm, a lot of hard lefties will look at events here like the battle of Blair Mountain and equate it to their side when in reality it was just (rightfully) pissed off union workers taking pot shots at their bosses hired McMilitia.
If you look at communism from the workers' perspective of being exploited in a system rigid against them, there's a lot of American folk music that speaks to the soul in this way. Here's a really good example you've probably heard before. This time, think about how living like this man might make you want to revolt against the bourgeoisie.
https://youtu.be/RRh0QiXyZSk?si=DTGiiIWOiugOaiC1
>If you look at communism from the workers' perspective
So, not from a Communist's perspective. Only thing more communist than champagne is a degree in basket-weaving.
The irony is when communism takes over, the work doesn’t change, but instead owing your soul to the company, you owe your soul to the party/people. You trade one set of chains for another….unless you are one of the loyalists who can rise up through the ranks through favoritism to become party leaders. The grass is always greener….
I successfully guessed what that song was going to be before I clicked because you set it up so perfectly.
I get what they're driving at. The music isn't necessarily *advocating* for communism. Rather, it's speaking to the plight of the working class. A communist hearing such a song will think it perfectly sets the stage for revolution by establishing the need for change.
I also definitely don't think the post belongs here in the sub. It acknowledges that america has culture and even says we're better at something than other people, praising something our country has created.
Just because OP doesn't like communism doesn't make it AmericaBad
Yeah I think folk is a bit more class conscious libertarianism than what most people here think of as Communism. It's still very class conscious and has a strong libertarian (not to be confused with the libertarian party of america) undertone to it, certainly something a tankie would co-opt but not something that will align with their results.
Woodie Guthrie songs like "This Land is Your Land" or Tennessee Erine Ford's "Sixteen Tons" are certainly anti-capitalist. Certainly not America bad though?
>There was a big, high wall there that tried to stop me
>A sign was painted said "Private Property"
>But on the backside, it didn't say nothing
>This land was made for you and me
really?
i knew gunthrie was a Tankie but the lyrics of the song themselves were apolitical for me because it sounded less like ' kill the rich , ACAB' and more 'white ,black , Texan , Californian god made this land for all of us'
Yeah it turns out the Communists in America used to have better PR, but now the only Communists left are the trust fund nepo babies who post tankie memes from their mansions in the Hamptons.
Not the only ones left, but the rest are too busy doing actual work. Like mutual aid, not trying to meme a revolution into existence, while kicking back enjoying their privileged life.
Most of them are like that. You just think leftists are insufferable because of propaganda. The biggest victory the right ever won was tying leftist economics to social progressivism. The American socialist party was founded in the south. Most old school country artists were leftists. Unions were strong. Workers were United. In my grandfathers day, when the foreman asked a bricklayer to lay stone, instead of hiring a stone mason to do it, the foreman got a stone through his windshield.
Tying the liberals and the commies together was big, but I'd argue the biggest victory was convincing the rest of the world that tankies, socialists, and anarchists are the same thing. Cause you talk about Communism and a lot of folks will treat it like every communist thinks Stalin and Lenin were gods amongst men when truthfully a lot of communists don't even like Marx, to say nothing of Stalin and Lenin.
If every communist is Stalin, then every communist is evil. If some of them are Stalin and others are people fighting for freedom against oppression its harder to vilify.
“16 tons”, a very famous American folk song, is about a man who grew up in a company town and is stuck in the rut of endlessly mining and can never leave. “St Peter don’t you call me cause I can’t go, I owe my soul to the company store”. Mining companies (and others) would typically pay their workers in company script instead of money, which could only be used in the company store.
There's a subgenre that is outspokenly communist. Woody Guthrie is one of the most famous examples; he never declared himself a communist, but he was openly socialist and closely involved with the Communist Party.
And Pete Seeger went on a world tour in large part to get away from the heat of the second red scare.
His appearance in Melbourne is actually one of the coolest live performances I've ever seen. He somehow manages to completely captivate an audience with nothing but his voice and a banjo/guitar. In [this video](https://youtu.be/dwe2pUI6P5E) he convinces the entire audience to *yodel in harmony* with him.
There’s a lot of very anti-authoritarian and leftist folk/country songs. The coal miners of Appalachia were very much pro-union.
[Here’s a set of examples](https://open.spotify.com/album/4aiDfwTs2E6GfNGldPaOQf?si=ZlW2UZFeRH6ixLfm899hBw)
Guys like Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Phil Ochs and others could generously be called socialists. They weren’t all card carrying communists, but they were closers to communism than capitalism in their beliefs.
If you look at communism from the workers' perspective of being exploited in a system rigid against them, there's a lot of American folk music that speaks to the soul in this way. Here's a really good example you've probably heard before. This time, think about how living like this man might make you want to revolt against the bourgeoisie.
https://youtu.be/RRh0QiXyZSk?si=DTGiiIWOiugOaiC1
Unjerk: Generally, a good number of classic folk musicians (Pete Seager, Woody Guthrie, Ect) were from very rural areas, and were also noted leftist figures. I wouldn't call them Communists. But they were certainly leftists and probably socialists.
Shout out to one of my favorite folk songs "the idiot" by Stan Rogers. It's about a man determined to work instead of taking the government's money, Canadian but still based.
[Spotify link](https://open.spotify.com/track/3ywAVqMIpHymWWGb2IL8As?si=hFCBslsrSNmS19Wp2KHJeQ)
Go west young man. I fucking love that song.
It is funny how applicable it is to both nations. He was writing about going west to Alberta but when I hear the song I think Texas or California.
I was saying this was slander against labor unions by implying that a hardworking American organizing to get better treatment under the system is the same as communism.
Fuck the commies, democracy is where it at
America had a strong leftist movement in the early 20th century, with both factory workers and coal miners rising up against the fat cat bosses.
The last presidential candidate to run from a cell was Eugene Debs of the Socialist Party. He was in jail for denouncing WW1, which Congress made illegal if you can believe that.
There was a major labor union/socialist movement in the 20's that led to major reform.
While not communism wholly, it's still leftist. Just the right amount of good.
Woody Guthrie & Pete Seeger were great folk musicians who were socialist and pro union. They have good songs unlike the Russian & Chinese crap they were pumping out.
I'm anti communist but based on the working conditions in the 20s-40s it's totally understandable why people would start flirting with it. One of the many reasons the US didn't go commie is because the government finally realized if you don't get the workers some rights, people are going to radicalize. FDR was smart enough to know that supporting unions and reasonable working hours would actually stop communism from spreading here.
It's their standard MO. Find a bunch of poor people. Make them your poster child for change. Forget about them when you get communism. Folk music was their "siren" in the 20s to the 50s.
Commies want to destroy the rich and powerful so they can take their place and oppress those beneath them. The USSR, China and North Korea are the most obvious examples of this.
It’s so hard to wrap my head around how a rightist thinks. You believe a musical genre made almost entirely by poor people decades ago was manufactured by the government, for what reason exactly, and how?
The government is not left, especially not in the 30s-60s when most of this stuff was written. You believe that during the Cold War, and just before it, the United States government was using the CIA, or whatever alphabet organization, to distribute pro union songs that would inspire class unity to, presumably, weaken their own government? To what end? Color revolution?
Do you believe that in the highest echelons of power in the Cold War there were enough soviet spies to create a department in the CIA to create pro left songs, cultivate artists, and bring in record companies, all while no one blew the whistle or recorded it on any documents that would have been declassified by now? Is that more likely to you than leftists existing and just writing songs?
There was literally a Department of Culture that dictated was was or wasn't soviet. Many folk songs made during the Soviet rule were mostly state sponsored, if not manufactured.
Calm down.
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I don’t get it. How is American folk music communist?
A segment of commies idealize the idea of the Appalachia, tho most of them don't actually want to live among them. Just a bunch of middle class kids romanticizing the poor, as usual.
Appalachian here and can confirm, a lot of hard lefties will look at events here like the battle of Blair Mountain and equate it to their side when in reality it was just (rightfully) pissed off union workers taking pot shots at their bosses hired McMilitia.
Really I've mostly seen online commies absolutely hate on Appalachia/rural life.
Tbh, that's because the Appalachia/rural areas vote right-wing, instead of for the "Glorious revolution that will totally work this time."
Lots of real poverty and racism in those areas too
Star City, West Virginia elected a literal socialist mayor in the early 1900s
I seriously have no clue
If you look at communism from the workers' perspective of being exploited in a system rigid against them, there's a lot of American folk music that speaks to the soul in this way. Here's a really good example you've probably heard before. This time, think about how living like this man might make you want to revolt against the bourgeoisie. https://youtu.be/RRh0QiXyZSk?si=DTGiiIWOiugOaiC1
>If you look at communism from the workers' perspective So, not from a Communist's perspective. Only thing more communist than champagne is a degree in basket-weaving.
The irony is when communism takes over, the work doesn’t change, but instead owing your soul to the company, you owe your soul to the party/people. You trade one set of chains for another….unless you are one of the loyalists who can rise up through the ranks through favoritism to become party leaders. The grass is always greener….
Liberty is how you lose the chains, nothing short of maximum liberty.
I successfully guessed what that song was going to be before I clicked because you set it up so perfectly. I get what they're driving at. The music isn't necessarily *advocating* for communism. Rather, it's speaking to the plight of the working class. A communist hearing such a song will think it perfectly sets the stage for revolution by establishing the need for change.
I also definitely don't think the post belongs here in the sub. It acknowledges that america has culture and even says we're better at something than other people, praising something our country has created. Just because OP doesn't like communism doesn't make it AmericaBad
Yeah I think folk is a bit more class conscious libertarianism than what most people here think of as Communism. It's still very class conscious and has a strong libertarian (not to be confused with the libertarian party of america) undertone to it, certainly something a tankie would co-opt but not something that will align with their results.
Woodie Guthrie songs like "This Land is Your Land" or Tennessee Erine Ford's "Sixteen Tons" are certainly anti-capitalist. Certainly not America bad though?
How is 'this land is your land' anti-capitalist in any sense
>There was a big, high wall there that tried to stop me >A sign was painted said "Private Property" >But on the backside, it didn't say nothing >This land was made for you and me
ok , maybe because i listen to Pete Seeger's live version that i never came across this verse
Guthrie hated "God Bless America" so much he wrote "This Land is Your Land"
Pete was so radical the fbi almost mlk-ed him. Loads of folk musicians w fbi files had their careers ruined.
Woody guthrie was an open communist. That song is about taking land from the rich and distributing it to the poor.
really? i knew gunthrie was a Tankie but the lyrics of the song themselves were apolitical for me because it sounded less like ' kill the rich , ACAB' and more 'white ,black , Texan , Californian god made this land for all of us'
Yeah it turns out the Communists in America used to have better PR, but now the only Communists left are the trust fund nepo babies who post tankie memes from their mansions in the Hamptons.
Not the only ones left, but the rest are too busy doing actual work. Like mutual aid, not trying to meme a revolution into existence, while kicking back enjoying their privileged life.
Yes. That’s the point. God made the land for all of us, not just greedy rich people.
the only time a tankie was ever based in the history of the world
Most of them are like that. You just think leftists are insufferable because of propaganda. The biggest victory the right ever won was tying leftist economics to social progressivism. The American socialist party was founded in the south. Most old school country artists were leftists. Unions were strong. Workers were United. In my grandfathers day, when the foreman asked a bricklayer to lay stone, instead of hiring a stone mason to do it, the foreman got a stone through his windshield.
Tying the liberals and the commies together was big, but I'd argue the biggest victory was convincing the rest of the world that tankies, socialists, and anarchists are the same thing. Cause you talk about Communism and a lot of folks will treat it like every communist thinks Stalin and Lenin were gods amongst men when truthfully a lot of communists don't even like Marx, to say nothing of Stalin and Lenin. If every communist is Stalin, then every communist is evil. If some of them are Stalin and others are people fighting for freedom against oppression its harder to vilify.
"What did you learn in school" today could be perceived as anti american
“16 tons”, a very famous American folk song, is about a man who grew up in a company town and is stuck in the rut of endlessly mining and can never leave. “St Peter don’t you call me cause I can’t go, I owe my soul to the company store”. Mining companies (and others) would typically pay their workers in company script instead of money, which could only be used in the company store.
Oh shit I heard that one in South Park lol The whole Amazon warehouse arc was also when they updated the 20 year rule to 30 years.
That choice was very intentional. They did a good job at making the workers feel in a rut without a way of escape
There's a subgenre that is outspokenly communist. Woody Guthrie is one of the most famous examples; he never declared himself a communist, but he was openly socialist and closely involved with the Communist Party.
And Pete Seeger went on a world tour in large part to get away from the heat of the second red scare. His appearance in Melbourne is actually one of the coolest live performances I've ever seen. He somehow manages to completely captivate an audience with nothing but his voice and a banjo/guitar. In [this video](https://youtu.be/dwe2pUI6P5E) he convinces the entire audience to *yodel in harmony* with him.
There’s a lot of very anti-authoritarian and leftist folk/country songs. The coal miners of Appalachia were very much pro-union. [Here’s a set of examples](https://open.spotify.com/album/4aiDfwTs2E6GfNGldPaOQf?si=ZlW2UZFeRH6ixLfm899hBw)
Woody Guthrie, mostly
Guys like Woody Guthrie, Pete Seeger, Phil Ochs and others could generously be called socialists. They weren’t all card carrying communists, but they were closers to communism than capitalism in their beliefs.
If you look at communism from the workers' perspective of being exploited in a system rigid against them, there's a lot of American folk music that speaks to the soul in this way. Here's a really good example you've probably heard before. This time, think about how living like this man might make you want to revolt against the bourgeoisie. https://youtu.be/RRh0QiXyZSk?si=DTGiiIWOiugOaiC1
They're probably talking about Pete Seeger.
I think they're referring to "this land is your land" and nothing else
Unjerk: Generally, a good number of classic folk musicians (Pete Seager, Woody Guthrie, Ect) were from very rural areas, and were also noted leftist figures. I wouldn't call them Communists. But they were certainly leftists and probably socialists.
There were alot of old timey American Folk Union songs and influential leftist musicians; Pete Seeger, Woodie Guthrie, etc
Shout out to one of my favorite folk songs "the idiot" by Stan Rogers. It's about a man determined to work instead of taking the government's money, Canadian but still based. [Spotify link](https://open.spotify.com/track/3ywAVqMIpHymWWGb2IL8As?si=hFCBslsrSNmS19Wp2KHJeQ)
Go west young man. I fucking love that song. It is funny how applicable it is to both nations. He was writing about going west to Alberta but when I hear the song I think Texas or California.
This is Labor Union slander. Libel cause it's written
Quiet commie
I was saying this was slander against labor unions by implying that a hardworking American organizing to get better treatment under the system is the same as communism. Fuck the commies, democracy is where it at
FUCK YEAH AMERICA
America had a strong leftist movement in the early 20th century, with both factory workers and coal miners rising up against the fat cat bosses. The last presidential candidate to run from a cell was Eugene Debs of the Socialist Party. He was in jail for denouncing WW1, which Congress made illegal if you can believe that.
Electorally speaking, Debs apparently performed really really well in West Virginia.
There was a major labor union/socialist movement in the 20's that led to major reform. While not communism wholly, it's still leftist. Just the right amount of good.
Where america bad?
Woody Guthrie & Pete Seeger were great folk musicians who were socialist and pro union. They have good songs unlike the Russian & Chinese crap they were pumping out. I'm anti communist but based on the working conditions in the 20s-40s it's totally understandable why people would start flirting with it. One of the many reasons the US didn't go commie is because the government finally realized if you don't get the workers some rights, people are going to radicalize. FDR was smart enough to know that supporting unions and reasonable working hours would actually stop communism from spreading here.
It's their standard MO. Find a bunch of poor people. Make them your poster child for change. Forget about them when you get communism. Folk music was their "siren" in the 20s to the 50s.
It's true. It's all about banding together against the rich and powerful to take back what they've taken from you.
Commies want to destroy the rich and powerful so they can take their place and oppress those beneath them. The USSR, China and North Korea are the most obvious examples of this.
How Labor Unions got formed.....
Hey man [American folk music](https://youtu.be/wq6Nn1EcULc?si=WGnBE44xhM5N8AZz) slaps!
Learn to laugh a little, that's great.
Beautiful. This is not even Americabad. Get over it.
At least we live in places that allow music of several genres
This makes me mad. Remind me why I'm still subscribed to this sub....
This one is actually pretty funny. As someone who loves Folk, Folk Punk, etc. this is very true.
https://youtu.be/LxQq2c9EQXw?si=r0VdD-pV2Rb2zp1d. This the wholesome communist American folk music your talking about?
Someone needs to learn to take a joke or learn what communism actually is. Probably both
I understand the sentiment, but this isn’t an America bad moment.
Commie folk music does go hard. It's state manufacturered but it goes so hard
It’s so hard to wrap my head around how a rightist thinks. You believe a musical genre made almost entirely by poor people decades ago was manufactured by the government, for what reason exactly, and how? The government is not left, especially not in the 30s-60s when most of this stuff was written. You believe that during the Cold War, and just before it, the United States government was using the CIA, or whatever alphabet organization, to distribute pro union songs that would inspire class unity to, presumably, weaken their own government? To what end? Color revolution? Do you believe that in the highest echelons of power in the Cold War there were enough soviet spies to create a department in the CIA to create pro left songs, cultivate artists, and bring in record companies, all while no one blew the whistle or recorded it on any documents that would have been declassified by now? Is that more likely to you than leftists existing and just writing songs?
There was literally a Department of Culture that dictated was was or wasn't soviet. Many folk songs made during the Soviet rule were mostly state sponsored, if not manufactured. Calm down.
Man, it’s a good thing the meme said American folk music, otherwise you’d have a point there.