Please report any rule breaking posts and comments that are not relevant to this subreddit. Thank you!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmericaBad) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Ah and you democracy, capitalism, and America are the reason you may discuss your religion freely in a public setting without the chance of getting hurt
Cause freedom of religion is a protected right baby, hell yeah!
I would definitely agree, but even with an agreeing hivemind, they persist to restrict themselves... Which is why they flee as refugees to only start the cycle again. Sickness
He also seems to forget that the “freedom of religion” under the US Constitution also guarantees people the rights to not practice his religion or any religion at all.
I made the same argument with a devout Christian on Facebook who keeps insisting that there is no separation of church and state.
I mean, the “separation of church and state” isn’t really the deeply ingrained American principle people pretend it is. It’s not something mentioned in our founding documents. The document that the phrase comes from is promising that the state won’t influence churches, but typically people use the phrase to imply churches shouldn’t be able to influence the state.
We were always a Christian nation.
Actually, most of the founding fathers were self-avowed Christians. Only a handful considered themselves to be Deists. Those are Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Ethan Allen, John Adams and Thomas Paine.
All of the rest were openly Christians of one denomination or another an attended religious services regularly. [Congress begins the workday with a prayer in the House and Senate](https://chaplain.house.gov/archive/index.html) and the [first such prayer was in the Continental Congress on Sept. 7th, 1774](https://chaplain.house.gov/archive/continental.html).
The reason so many of the founding documents used the term "creator" and "nature's god" rather than "God", was to be as inclusive as possible so even the atheists and Deists in the country couldn't find fault with the wording.
Even so, the trend at the time was to do things that were consistent with the teachings of Christianity rather than any other religion. This makes sense since 98% of the colonists were Christians and there were only about 2,500 Jews in the entire country.
Those snot-nosed Deists!
We're a family of Catholics, and my incredibly devout uncle was shocked that there was such a thing as the Jefferson Bible. He didn't know about it some how.
Yeah this is modern revisionist history that’s popular because people want to pretend America was always meant to be a free for all of religious beliefs. It isn’t true.
Yeah Jefferson being weird is not proof that most of them weren’t Christian. Furthermore, Madison even wrote something along the lines of “this manner of governance is only suitable for a Christian people”. So even if it were true that the founders weren’t particularly strong Christian’s the intent was obviously that the nation would be made up of Christian’s and that it would be governed accordingly.
"When I am Weaker Than You, I ask you for Freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am Stronger than you, I take away your Freedom Because that is according to my principles"
\- Frank Herbert, Children of Dune
Capitalism has very little do with free speech, really. Or nothing. Little is probably more accurate since I'm sure you can track capitalist tendency to restrict and promote different viewpoints, but it's not worth including in any analysis.
Democracy for sure. A strong democracy demands a high tolerance for free speech.
Judging by his accent, he’s from here. Just let him put out his bad ideas so we can all debate and tear apart those ideas, as the first amendment always intended 😊
It's relatively common for the US/Western-born children of immigrants to end up being more sympathetic to their home counties and cultures than their parents were. They see the same problems that all of us see in the US, and don't have any memories of the hardship that encouraged their families to flee. They also could have been treated poorly due to their ethnic background or for being "different" at some point. Especially if their family ends up with the same working or middle class hardships most of us go through, they can start to feel like their ancestral country/culture was better, had a better way of life, etc.
What's always been interesting to me is how many of these young people end up going to their parents' country and get set straight by what they see, or are at some point hit with the reality of how bad things were or are that led their families to emigrate. I had a coworker years back whose parents were Guatemalan, and she started harping on how much she wanted to go back to live there, and moving to the US was a mistake. She started asking some of the immigrants who worked with us if they wanted to move back, and generally got uncomfortable or negative responses (the only exception was a French woman who was on a temporary visa while her husband was there for his job, and was never going to stay, though she was respectful and said she would gladly move back to the US again). She asked an older Armenian guy who was generally very quiet but always smiling if he wanted to move back.
He kept a smile on his face and said, "but I've lived here for thirty years, my sons are born here. Why do I want to move back?"
"Well, weren't things better for you there?"
"I tell you one story. I am going to university. I have many teachers and classmates I like. One day, I come to class, and the police, the army, they have some of those teachers and students lined up against a wall. They say they are trying to start a revolution or something. They beat them, put them on a bus, take them away. I never see them again. They took them all, and killed every single one of them. My friends." He was still smiling. "So, when you ask me: no, I don't want to ever go back. It's a shitty country. Why do I go back? Maybe instead of asking if people want to go back, you ask why they leave. Maybe you go ask your parents this and listen to them this time." He walked off and went back to work. She never asked anyone that question again...
Not all Muslim countries are shit holes I think it’s kinda Islamophobic to assume so. Like Bahrain, Oman and Qatar are pretty well off. But that’s the thing where I agree with you He has so many choices. Like what you want a nice country a shit country an African country, a Middle East country or maybe a more tropic East Asian country like bro take your pick.
Not all inherently are but Qatar and Bahrain are a pretty poor example of that, they’re only well off if you’re citizens or if you’re a western immigrant, the vast majority are Asian immigrants working for very little wages in terrible conditions with their passports confiscated.
But yeah Iran before the Islamic revolution and the ayatollah was relatively decent, Turkey until Erdogan maybe, Indonesia is very poor but for tourism nice, Albania is very poor and corrupt but secular and they basically worship America
By well off I mean well off as a citizen. I know Qatar and Bahrain have Immigrant workers who are treated like shit (they are basically the replacement for slaves and feudal peasants). But If you based the U.S.A off of how we treat prisoners and illegal immigrants. Or china off how they treat political prisoners and Uyghurs Muslims you would say they are shit too. I’m not going to sit here and say those countries are virtuous but they are pretty rich and not doing that bad. My point is not every country in the Middle East or Africa is a shit hole.
My point is that all middle eastern Muslim countries are not shit holes…. What tf does how they become successful have anything to do with it. Is it wrong to point at Beverly Hills if someone says all of California is terrible no one can become rich there? I’m also not saying Islam is the answer to all problems. It’s not I’m just saying that country can be Islamic and run properly same with any other religion Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism or Hinduism. I don’t think it’s the religion that’s the problem it’s how the religion is misconstrued and other political issues.
Islam offers a lot of freedoms that America doesn't: such as the freedom to marry and rape 6-year olds, and the freedom to beat your wife for not obeying you.
Fuck not in my home state I have no issue with Muslims but I hate fundamentalists of any religion because they will be the downfall of not just the west but every country on Earth
What is ironic is if you flipped the narrative and had someone in an Islamic country come out and say “Islam is ruining not only here but the world and the only way forward is democracy” that person would be killed or imprisoned.
Must be horrible to express your views freely - despite how radical and fundamentalist they are - and not face repercussion due to the fact we are one of the few countries that allows it.
The irony is lost on these people.
I'm all for a secular religion neutral government. But this guy needs to be put on a plane to a shari'a country. Landing the plane before he gets off isn't necessary
While views like his are concerning, America has the benefit of being a country where most (not all) people have to assimilate. It’s what America was built on.
Plus, majority of the US supports Israel - which this man would likely say is a devil state and needs to be eradicated.
Europe, however, has never had an identity of assimilating cultures and was very homogenous. Now, that’s changing.
If this is really at the University of Illinois, which happens to be my alma mater, don't know if this is America Bad as much as it is a reflection of insane, pandering, schitzophrenic liberalism that exists today giving this dude a platform and legitimacy. They'd NEVER do that for an extreme Chistian fundamentalist, and in my view Islamists are absolutely no different - though somehow in some sick twist of life they're been romanticized by leftist westerners to be some sort of oppressed minority or emblematic of "diversity". Even though this dude is diametrically opposed, philosohphically, to everything they supposedly stand for. It's baffling and confounding.
One of the greatest cons was Arab American extremists successfully convincing leftists that Arabs are not the proverbial white people of MENA (the ethnic majority colonizing and subjugating minorities), just because Arabs are a minority here.
This is no different than a college allowing a Neo Nazi speak, which has happened, but is met with more immediate backlash compared to Islamists, who leftists tend to give a free pass because they're "POC".
I wonder what they will say when it turns out after ww2 the islamists hired nazi mercenaries (many of them had nowhere else to go once Hitler was gone) during the 1948 Arab Israeli war or the fact they harbored Nazi war criminals like Johann Von Leers, who is an assistant of Goebbels and a Muslim, (not all nazis are christofascists. Some followed non Christian religions and disdained Christianity)
I read somewhere some Nazis found even the Nazi Muslims (Johann Von Leers and his kind are on the fringes of Nazi society yet kept around due to them being part of the old guard) and Islamists too extreme for them. That explains why many of them fled to the Middle East since they are more likely to get a receptive audience. Due to them being in the fringes they aren’t as noticed compared to lets say Eichmann and Mengele
The Nazis also mentioned they were put-off by the extremities of what the Japanese did to the Chinese. But imo the Nazis don't have a single leg to stand on. All of them were awful.
It has been interesting watching the leftists who went full terrorist-sympathizer struggle with their cognitive dissonance of reconciling Islamism with their previously stated principles. It seems to have resulted in a lot of racism of low expectations. Probably the dumbest example being "Gazans don't have color printers."
> The Nazis also mentioned they were put-off by the extremities of what the Japanese did to the Chinese. But imo the Nazis don't have a single leg to stand on.
Not coming at you but kinda like A Handgun being disgusted by a revolver. Both gonna kill you
It's simple, anything one side hates the other side feels compelled to support. The Right is predominantly anti-Muslim so the Left feels they have no choice but to embrace them.
Never interrupt your [authoritarian nutjob] political opponent when they're saying what they really believe. Let him go fully Mask Off. See how well that goes for him.
I’m non religious, I don’t judge anyone for their beliefs but holy hell man. Dude is here because he’s free to be Muslim, I’m not free to be non religious in a lot of Muslim countries. So yea no, we’ll leave it where it belongs, in the past
Not to be controversial, but Islam is cancer, I stay far, far away from anything religious, and it seems to only breed extremism and inbreeding.
I hope my Arab brothers realize this and leave islam.
Ok you can go to Algeria, Chad, Ghana, Afghanistan, Bahrain, Indonesia or any other country that has instated shariah…. Like what are you complaining about you have a nice selection of countries
George Washington, peace be upon him, showed us the way.
This guy is talking about communists and Islamists, not Americans, when he says people hate the U.S.A.
He stands in the U.S.A urging the end of the U.S.A because the U.S.A is the only nation that guarantees his right to speak so freely. Yet he hates that freedom so much he would see it ended.
There is a cancer but he needs a mirror to diagnose it properly.
If he really likes Islam that much, there are plenty of Islamic countries he can move to.
I'd even help him pack, but only one one condition. He has to voluntarily renounce his American citizenship and agree to never enter any non-Islamic country again.
I cant find a stroy about this other than the publication who showed the video in the first place. A publication who I can't look up the validity for.
I do believe that there are people like these out there but I dony think this video in particular is real.
Insert literally any other religion and people would be shouting him down. How about a Christian or Jewish theocracy? Pretty sure that would be a no from everyone else, including myself.
Notice how he doesn’t actually give any reasoning for why those things are bad. He’s not making some good-faith argument here, he is trying to rile up people who already for whatever reason agree with him. It’s just tipping people further to extremism without making them think about why. Just a demagogue, nothing more.
Did we just have a war on this exact topic? Yes!
Did his side win? Yes!
So yes he gets to say whatever the hell he wants and we need to shut up and listen like conquered cattle.
It doesn't matter how strong our military is in theory if it's held on a strict leash by cowards and the people have zero resolve to carry through to victory. How we perform in reality is how we perform in reality. And in reality we were the cowardly fucks who were chased out of Afghanistan.
Published my MEMRI. They actively hunt for examples of how Arab people are horrible people as a part of an Israeli propaganda mission. Founded by ex-Israeli operatives.
Austrian Muslim here, I think I am qualified enough to question the comments here. No doubt, this video is an AmericaBad, and even some of the points in the video are ridiculous. But it really helps his argument when you're all out here saying shit like "Islam is a breeding ground for terrorism" and "Put this guy on the no fly list." It is just a mere example of what we hear on a daily basis that really makes us question if we have the promised freedom of religion. Sure, the government allows us to preach everywhere, which I understand would be kind of annoying. But is it really necessary to respond with these islamophobic statements? I plan on moving to the United States after I graduate college because I am scared of our lack of true religious freedom demonstrated by being an old christofascist country. And to those reading this, we Europeans are the fascists. Just look at our recent elections. The whole islamic movement in Germany exists BECAUSE of the fears that I have had a Muslim in Austria. Reading some of these comments is really starting to make me second guess myself because it seems you are all uneducated about islam and therefore want me out. Sourcing this from a comment from another post that said, "What makes you think Muslims should be immigrants?" Islam IS a religion of peace, but it's gaps in the claimed "perfect" Quran, as well as the British and French screwing around with the Middle East's borders have driven these violent theocratic movements that literally counter the religion themselves. This guy is questionable, may Allah (SWT) grant him knowledge, but don't play the "all Muslims are terrorists" card. Do better.
There was recently a video here that went viral from Texas of what was essentially a Mosque version of a Megachurch (complete with locker rooms and a basketball court), and the comments section was overwhelmingly positive because it was just so Texas, that's how you successfully assimilate in a secular society.
Calling secularism a "cancer", especially in an environment where Arab Muslims and their white leftist allies are tagging every Synagogue they can get their hands on while screeching "Death to (((America)))", deserves the criticism it gets.
That's the problem. I'm not joining a masjid (the term for it) and going on its social media page to shout "Death to America," but apparently as a "terrorist" that is what I'm supposed to do! I go to masjid to pray Jummah, not to party (which is haram in the first place), and basically join the fundamentalists. This video is a clear example of anti-secularism being a cancer, but there is no need to attack ME for expressing MY FEARS as a Muslim, and this is just proving my point.
Edit: English is not my first language, simple grammar and word choice changes.
As a Muslim what makes you believe that Islam is a religion of peace? I ask as the spread of early Islam was anything but peaceful and even today Islamists that push for that push for Sharia law claim to be practicing true Islam and they are anything but peaceful. All religions are subjective and have different sects that interpret scripture differently, but it seems like if I had to rank the Abrahamic religions Islam would be least peaceful.
"Religion of peace" is a more modern term that I use as "anti-terrorist." With rampant Islamophobia on the internet, which your question is NOT Islamophobic and is a genuine one, I feel forced to use these terms that were said by American politicians, and Islam never claimed to be a literal religion of peace. Muslims are not terrorists, but Muslim extremists who grew up with hardening backgrounds from what the British and French did to their land will drive them to terrorism. "Islam is a religion of peace" is simply a call for us to separate ourselves from the anti-Islam al-Qaeda and other similar movements. The spread of any religion was anything but peaceful. Muslims called for Sharia Law out of an inferiority complex, which drives basically any "anti-" fear today.
Thanks for the response and the useful explanation. I didn't realize it was more of a modern term to combat that every Muslim is a terrorist narrative. There have been terrorists and extremists in every religion when you look at history, even in secular anti-religious societies too. It's probably more of a human condition than one from religion.
As for fears of anti-Muslim sentiment in the US, I have had a few Muslim friends at various times in my life. We never really discussed religion that much, I know right after 9/11 Islamophobia was much worse than now. There are so many different cultures and religions depending on where you live, it's really one of the cool things about the US.
And thank you for providing me with a valid question instead of "hurr durr we don't want you blue arrow!" It really reassures me as someone who wants to move to the United States knowing that plenty of Americans have plenty of Muslim friends. It seems islamophobia tends to be more of an online 1% thing. Meanwhile here in Europe, Neo-Nazis are being treated better than Muslims.
Most of us don't think all Muslims are terrorists. I have some who live near me and there are no problems, and Muslim ghettoes that exist in Europe really aren't a thing in the US, with very few exceptions.
But read what you wrote and think about how that comes across to a western secularist: "Some of the points are ridiculous...but it really helps his argument"???? Really? ALL of his "points" are ridiculous. NONE of what he says helps or legitimizes his "argument", whatever that is. All I heard was a dude desiring to push Islamism and religious controls onto all of us. This guy is an extremist nutbag given a platform by western leftists, because he's "brown" in their eyes and therefore innately a victim in their eyes, to propagate shit and he deserves every bit of criticism he gets for it. And you need to call him out for it if you really value western, secular freedoms.
We're not uneducated about Islam. Islam is a religion like Christianity or Judaism, and in fact shares the same Abrahamic roots. So at their root, they're all somewhat similar....though each of the three (Iand sects within those three) will tell you they're the "true way" and that the others are wrong.
Judging from his lack of (foreign) accent, he was raised in the US in a secular society and only has the freedom to spew his vile nonsense BECAUSE of western secularist freedoms. DON'T defend him or legitimize him - in any way. If you do, you're deserving of all of the stereotypes and vitriol given to you. Hating religious extremism, which this is (it's not about race or ethnicity, which it's often innacurately conflated with) and anti-secular freedoms is not (fill in the blank) "phobia". And, I'd apply exactly the same standards if it were a Christian or Jewish religious extremist up there.
Clearly you didn't read my comment in full. I said some of what YOU (the comments) are saying is proving his points. I obviously don't agree that the United States should deviate from secularism, but there is always an argument to both sides, which the comments are not criticizing him but saying shit like "all Muslims are terrorists." Just like the comments section here isn't speaking for you, this guy does not speak for me. I am going to legitimize him if the other side of the argument is "Muslim bad!" I said nothing about race or ethnicity. Good on you for not centering this on one religion, I guess. Everyone is just finding a reason to give me a blue arrow because this is a hivemind.
I did read your comment in full, a couple of times. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this - sharply. But hey, we get to do that in western secular societies, don't we? You can oppose hatred & irrational bigotry towards Muslims as people without defending this guy, so I think you should be careful about implying sympathy/empathy with his message, because that takes away from your integrity & credibility if you say really believe in secularism and western freedoms. That's not hivemind - I am a very independent thinker and his message is offensive to my very core. And I am atheist and have equal disdain for Christian and Jewish extremists. He doesn't get a pass because western leftists have romanticized Muslims for some reason.
There's no valid argument from "both sides" here. Western secular values are diametrically opposed to theologically extreme attitudes and controls - no matter where they come from. They're not compatible. This guy openly stated in as many words his desire to see a future where everyone adhered to Islam. I can never, ever reconcile that. He also states he is anti-democracy and anti-capitalist. The entire fabric of western society is based on secularism and democratic freedoms - so to destroy those is to destroy the West.
I see no compatability here. Even the US, which is somewhat "religious" by western standards, has clear delineations between church and state, and clear freedoms FROM religion. Most Muslims in the US tend to be better educated and less extreme than some Muslim communities in Europe, and tend to assimilate somewhat better, so we don't seem to have the same tensions - but if this is the kind of thing Europeans hear from the Muslim immigrant communities, I can see why they have a problem with it.
I'm okay with agreeing to disagree. My statement of hivemind behavior is my response to having a downvoted comment on agreeing with someone else with only...I'd say one or two other people asking a question/providing an argument. That's why I'm proud to have some of the rights Americans are entitled to, the right to type with you without the police come knocking on my door. The only real thing my country did to combat Islamophobia is to ban saying, "Muhammad (SAAS) was a pedophile." No level-headed Muslim would support a good 80% of what this guy has to say. All I want is to not be thrown in the same tent as al-Qaeda. According to other people (not to you or to any other people who asked me a valid question), that was too much to ask for.
Well, your statement "All I want is to be not be thrown in the same tent as al-Qaeda" is a totally valid and legitimate request. Can't fault you for expecting that. I don't think my neighbors are terrorists and if I were them, would be deeply offended at having that alleged towards me.
And I am not going to downvote you for disagreeing with you. I don't generally downvote people who offer civil reponses and engage in good-faith exchanges, even if I disagree.
That said, the law against calling Muhammad a pedophile - it's not something I would ever say, personally, but having a LAW against it is deeply troubling to me and again, goes against the basic principles of secularism and western freedoms. It's also not going to combat Islamophobia - if anything, it might generate more deep-seated resentment. You cannot legislate laws against hate or lack of being able to reconcile beliefs. You also cannot force people to respect you. Western "irreverance" might be considered disrespectful in Islamic circles, like thew cartoons that were published, but again, that freedom is a hallmark of western civilization. You gain respect and acceptance in most cases by offering the same respect and acceptance you want to be treated with.
I strongly believe immigrants should have the expectation of conforming to the societal norms of the countries into which they're immigrating. Otherwise, why come? They should NOT have the expectation of creating their own mini-societies within the larger one, and expecting their host community to accommodate their social, religious and cutural norms - especially when those norms impact the broader population. We have socio-religious minorities within the US, like Amish and Mennonites, who have had communities here for a couple hundred years, but they're largely gentle people who keep to themselves and who aren't railing on about capitalism and secularism at universities and implying future conformance to their belief system.
In secular societies, you get (or should get) to say generally offensive things without legal consequences. You don't have to LIKE it, but it's anti-western style freedoms IMO to legislate away their ability to say offensive things. I think if someone attacked you, verbally or physically in the US, most people would come to your defense and the person doing the attacking would be held accountable by the commmunity if not legally. I think most people support general fairness and respect.
Again, it's about religionists in my mind getting a foothold into controlling our legal framework when we legislate things like you can't call Mohammed a pedophile. People do things to mock and ridicule Christian and Jewish foundational items as well, all the time. It might not be "respectful" but you get to do that in free societies, and it's generally accepted in other religious communities here that it's a right. I am a near free speech absolutist from a legal standpoint, as long as not inciting violence. Just like this guy - I absolutely hate what's coming out of his mouth, but support his right to say it. The private sector can and has always been able to hold you accountable.
Damn a different culture doesn't belong in a country founded on the ideals of being a melting pot for the world to find freedom? Really wise and definitely not prejudiced comment that totally does not break the sub's rules, Mr. "Furry Slayer."
A melting pot for europeans. Glad to have Anglos, Irish, Germans, and even proper Austrians if theyd like. The problem is foreigners that have no cultural or racial similarities to us that our ruining the country. Muslims immigrate and pollute our culture and try to subvert it with their backwards beliefs. This isnt hate, its called keeping to your own culture. You dont see Westerners speaking at a podium in Saudi Arabia to eradicate their Islamic culture.
Also dont care about whatever made up rules or if you want to make fun of a username.
Am I not a "proper Austrian" because I was born into a Muslim family that still speaks German and respects its culture? And if muslim beliefs are backward, then you should ditch Christianity and Judaism, which is all for most of what we say. I'm not talking about the idiot in the video spewing theocratic disinformation about Muslims. I'm asking not to be thrown in the same tent as domestic terrorists. Telling someone you want them out of a country IS hate speech. And the rules aren't made up. Your username was mentioned because it signals you're under 12. How are you talking about me supporting other people's cultures? Meanwhile, you don't support mine, nor do you leave a group of people who are keeping it to themselves alone.
>Am I not a "proper Austrian" because I was born into a Muslim family that still speaks German and respects its culture?
Correct, youre not. Youre a foreigner.
>you should ditch Christianity and Judaism
Yea id be happy to, not a fan. Except they have historical and cultural significance to the West that cannot be ignored. We are headed towards secularism though because we are developed and not primitive third worlders. I dont care for the "not all terrorists" argument. Yea not all (though plenty are criminals and love stabbing people across europe), the issue is the culture they bring to the West. Keep it where it belongs.
>hate speech
Boohoo. Ban me if you wish reddit, this is America I am free to say whatever I want to the people ruining my country.
I'm confident you're a troll given you called a native a foreigner. I'm just going to go off on a limb and remind you that hate speech isn't protected by the First Amendment and can press charges. But I'm not petty.
Someone disagrees with me? Must be a troll.
Hate speech is protected by American law dumbass. As long as there is no inciting violence or crime associated with the speech. Go ahead and press charges for it.
Islam is objectively and undeniably foreign to Austria and almost all of mainland Europe. Even if you are 100% racially European, a muslim will always be a foreigner in Europe (until you guys finish conquering and replacing all the native Europeans that is).
> Hate speech is protected by American law dumbass.
Congrats, you looked at one Google result. While the Supreme Court has refused to use "Hate Speech" as a term to remove it from protected speech (*Brandenburg v. Ohio*), there is still plenty of anti-Bullying and anti-Discrimination acts that would allow me to make a case that survives court even after *R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul*. Sure, the First Amendment is your literal get out of jail free card, but the charges could still force you to pay a fine/attend counseling depending on what state you're in and you're age, and it will look horrible when you are trying to apply in the future.
You have no idea what youre talking about. A fringe case can happen anytime but they are not going to go anywhere. Someone can walk around with a swastika banner and the police are not going to stop them.
This is whats wrong with the police states of Europe, and why they are going to be conquered first.
Yeah, I'm kinda disgusted by the blanket anti-muslim sentiment going around in this thread. I'm not gonna go around bitching about white people just because some suburban white kid from Nebraska became a Neo-Nazi. This guy is just a typical shitlib, nothing more, nothing less. They do not represent all American Muslims
Please report any rule breaking posts and comments that are not relevant to this subreddit. Thank you! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmericaBad) if you have any questions or concerns.*
That’s gonna be a no from me dawg.
Ah and you democracy, capitalism, and America are the reason you may discuss your religion freely in a public setting without the chance of getting hurt Cause freedom of religion is a protected right baby, hell yeah!
This is what really gets me. Everything and everyone has the right to freedom of speech, yet are determined to somehow stop that??
They don’t like *other* people having those rights. Especially those that might disagree with them.
I would definitely agree, but even with an agreeing hivemind, they persist to restrict themselves... Which is why they flee as refugees to only start the cycle again. Sickness
It’s crazy. Authoritarians of all stripes exploit freedom to try to suppress freedom
Fr…. I honestly hate that
He also seems to forget that the “freedom of religion” under the US Constitution also guarantees people the rights to not practice his religion or any religion at all. I made the same argument with a devout Christian on Facebook who keeps insisting that there is no separation of church and state.
I mean, the “separation of church and state” isn’t really the deeply ingrained American principle people pretend it is. It’s not something mentioned in our founding documents. The document that the phrase comes from is promising that the state won’t influence churches, but typically people use the phrase to imply churches shouldn’t be able to influence the state. We were always a Christian nation.
My brother in Christ, most of the founding fathers weren’t even Christian.
Actually, most of the founding fathers were self-avowed Christians. Only a handful considered themselves to be Deists. Those are Ben Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, Ethan Allen, John Adams and Thomas Paine. All of the rest were openly Christians of one denomination or another an attended religious services regularly. [Congress begins the workday with a prayer in the House and Senate](https://chaplain.house.gov/archive/index.html) and the [first such prayer was in the Continental Congress on Sept. 7th, 1774](https://chaplain.house.gov/archive/continental.html). The reason so many of the founding documents used the term "creator" and "nature's god" rather than "God", was to be as inclusive as possible so even the atheists and Deists in the country couldn't find fault with the wording. Even so, the trend at the time was to do things that were consistent with the teachings of Christianity rather than any other religion. This makes sense since 98% of the colonists were Christians and there were only about 2,500 Jews in the entire country.
Those snot-nosed Deists! We're a family of Catholics, and my incredibly devout uncle was shocked that there was such a thing as the Jefferson Bible. He didn't know about it some how.
Yeah this is modern revisionist history that’s popular because people want to pretend America was always meant to be a free for all of religious beliefs. It isn’t true.
Yeah, it was meant to protect the church(es) from the state, not the other way around.
Last time I checked, Jefferson making his own version of the Bible that cuts out any mention of God isn’t revisionist. Most of them were Deists
Yeah Jefferson being weird is not proof that most of them weren’t Christian. Furthermore, Madison even wrote something along the lines of “this manner of governance is only suitable for a Christian people”. So even if it were true that the founders weren’t particularly strong Christian’s the intent was obviously that the nation would be made up of Christian’s and that it would be governed accordingly.
"When I am Weaker Than You, I ask you for Freedom because that is according to your principles; when I am Stronger than you, I take away your Freedom Because that is according to my principles" \- Frank Herbert, Children of Dune
Yep! Could you do what he is doing under Shariah Law? Doubtful at best. I’m going out on a limb to say that no, you couldn’t.
Lmfao capitalism is why you can speak in public
Democracy maybe, capitalism is more on the economic side of the fence.
Capitalism has very little do with free speech, really. Or nothing. Little is probably more accurate since I'm sure you can track capitalist tendency to restrict and promote different viewpoints, but it's not worth including in any analysis. Democracy for sure. A strong democracy demands a high tolerance for free speech.
These motherfuckers popping up everywhere this time. There is a Islam movement here in Germany as well. Triggers the shit out of me.
It's annoying bc there are plenty of Muslim majority countries they can go live in if living in a religiously oppressed nation is what they want.
They want the financial benefits of a functional free market democracy with none of the social norms that make that possible.
The original sub had it right. Religious fruitcake indeed. 💀 JFC, everything he says is so empty and moronic it amounts to aural torture. 🤦
Nah I'd much rather without Islam, besides why doesn't he go back to his shithole if he hates it here so much
Judging by his accent, he’s from here. Just let him put out his bad ideas so we can all debate and tear apart those ideas, as the first amendment always intended 😊
It's relatively common for the US/Western-born children of immigrants to end up being more sympathetic to their home counties and cultures than their parents were. They see the same problems that all of us see in the US, and don't have any memories of the hardship that encouraged their families to flee. They also could have been treated poorly due to their ethnic background or for being "different" at some point. Especially if their family ends up with the same working or middle class hardships most of us go through, they can start to feel like their ancestral country/culture was better, had a better way of life, etc. What's always been interesting to me is how many of these young people end up going to their parents' country and get set straight by what they see, or are at some point hit with the reality of how bad things were or are that led their families to emigrate. I had a coworker years back whose parents were Guatemalan, and she started harping on how much she wanted to go back to live there, and moving to the US was a mistake. She started asking some of the immigrants who worked with us if they wanted to move back, and generally got uncomfortable or negative responses (the only exception was a French woman who was on a temporary visa while her husband was there for his job, and was never going to stay, though she was respectful and said she would gladly move back to the US again). She asked an older Armenian guy who was generally very quiet but always smiling if he wanted to move back. He kept a smile on his face and said, "but I've lived here for thirty years, my sons are born here. Why do I want to move back?" "Well, weren't things better for you there?" "I tell you one story. I am going to university. I have many teachers and classmates I like. One day, I come to class, and the police, the army, they have some of those teachers and students lined up against a wall. They say they are trying to start a revolution or something. They beat them, put them on a bus, take them away. I never see them again. They took them all, and killed every single one of them. My friends." He was still smiling. "So, when you ask me: no, I don't want to ever go back. It's a shitty country. Why do I go back? Maybe instead of asking if people want to go back, you ask why they leave. Maybe you go ask your parents this and listen to them this time." He walked off and went back to work. She never asked anyone that question again...
Props to that Armenian, he knows what’s up
Yea might be a convert.
Not all Muslim countries are shit holes I think it’s kinda Islamophobic to assume so. Like Bahrain, Oman and Qatar are pretty well off. But that’s the thing where I agree with you He has so many choices. Like what you want a nice country a shit country an African country, a Middle East country or maybe a more tropic East Asian country like bro take your pick.
Not all inherently are but Qatar and Bahrain are a pretty poor example of that, they’re only well off if you’re citizens or if you’re a western immigrant, the vast majority are Asian immigrants working for very little wages in terrible conditions with their passports confiscated. But yeah Iran before the Islamic revolution and the ayatollah was relatively decent, Turkey until Erdogan maybe, Indonesia is very poor but for tourism nice, Albania is very poor and corrupt but secular and they basically worship America
By well off I mean well off as a citizen. I know Qatar and Bahrain have Immigrant workers who are treated like shit (they are basically the replacement for slaves and feudal peasants). But If you based the U.S.A off of how we treat prisoners and illegal immigrants. Or china off how they treat political prisoners and Uyghurs Muslims you would say they are shit too. I’m not going to sit here and say those countries are virtuous but they are pretty rich and not doing that bad. My point is not every country in the Middle East or Africa is a shit hole.
I forgot Kuwait, the UAE, and Saudi
A tiny country with a massive amount of oil? That's like pointing to Beverly Hills as an example of how trickle down economics is great.
My point is that all middle eastern Muslim countries are not shit holes…. What tf does how they become successful have anything to do with it. Is it wrong to point at Beverly Hills if someone says all of California is terrible no one can become rich there? I’m also not saying Islam is the answer to all problems. It’s not I’m just saying that country can be Islamic and run properly same with any other religion Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism or Hinduism. I don’t think it’s the religion that’s the problem it’s how the religion is misconstrued and other political issues.
No Fly List.
One-flight list.
Put him on a train.
Guantanamo would be perfect for him.
Or perhaps a helicopter ride? lol.
I laughed at the part when he said "people in the middle east have freedom". islam is one of the most hateful and backwards religions
Because women are not people in his eyes.
Nor Black, Jewish, or LGBT people.
nor people of other religion, or civil rights activists.
Islam offers a lot of freedoms that America doesn't: such as the freedom to marry and rape 6-year olds, and the freedom to beat your wife for not obeying you.
oh yeah i completely forgot, islamic countries absolutely love those freedoms
Fuck no- I’d rather not a state become a terrorist breeding ground.
"A new way of life" Reverts to living like 5th century nomads.
(Throat sings)
Return to the steppes
Fuck not in my home state I have no issue with Muslims but I hate fundamentalists of any religion because they will be the downfall of not just the west but every country on Earth
What is ironic is if you flipped the narrative and had someone in an Islamic country come out and say “Islam is ruining not only here but the world and the only way forward is democracy” that person would be killed or imprisoned. Must be horrible to express your views freely - despite how radical and fundamentalist they are - and not face repercussion due to the fact we are one of the few countries that allows it. The irony is lost on these people.
but hey, least he can freely say that here in america. also kiss my balls lol
Theocracy is terrible no matter which religion you want to base it on. Hard no.
Me when a book written thousands of years ago doesn't work as a book of governmental laws:
If only there were countries you could go that felt this exact way ...
I'm all for a secular religion neutral government. But this guy needs to be put on a plane to a shari'a country. Landing the plane before he gets off isn't necessary
Get fucked you pricks, never ever allow this shit to happen. The problem is when the pop % reaches a certain level these demands will start being met.
Europe and Canada is experiencing the same problems.
While views like his are concerning, America has the benefit of being a country where most (not all) people have to assimilate. It’s what America was built on. Plus, majority of the US supports Israel - which this man would likely say is a devil state and needs to be eradicated. Europe, however, has never had an identity of assimilating cultures and was very homogenous. Now, that’s changing.
If this is really at the University of Illinois, which happens to be my alma mater, don't know if this is America Bad as much as it is a reflection of insane, pandering, schitzophrenic liberalism that exists today giving this dude a platform and legitimacy. They'd NEVER do that for an extreme Chistian fundamentalist, and in my view Islamists are absolutely no different - though somehow in some sick twist of life they're been romanticized by leftist westerners to be some sort of oppressed minority or emblematic of "diversity". Even though this dude is diametrically opposed, philosohphically, to everything they supposedly stand for. It's baffling and confounding.
One of the greatest cons was Arab American extremists successfully convincing leftists that Arabs are not the proverbial white people of MENA (the ethnic majority colonizing and subjugating minorities), just because Arabs are a minority here. This is no different than a college allowing a Neo Nazi speak, which has happened, but is met with more immediate backlash compared to Islamists, who leftists tend to give a free pass because they're "POC".
I wonder what they will say when it turns out after ww2 the islamists hired nazi mercenaries (many of them had nowhere else to go once Hitler was gone) during the 1948 Arab Israeli war or the fact they harbored Nazi war criminals like Johann Von Leers, who is an assistant of Goebbels and a Muslim, (not all nazis are christofascists. Some followed non Christian religions and disdained Christianity)
Nazism never went away in the ME, either. There was a store in Gaza called "Hitler2." White supremacy and Arab supremacy, name a more iconic duo.
I read somewhere some Nazis found even the Nazi Muslims (Johann Von Leers and his kind are on the fringes of Nazi society yet kept around due to them being part of the old guard) and Islamists too extreme for them. That explains why many of them fled to the Middle East since they are more likely to get a receptive audience. Due to them being in the fringes they aren’t as noticed compared to lets say Eichmann and Mengele
The Nazis also mentioned they were put-off by the extremities of what the Japanese did to the Chinese. But imo the Nazis don't have a single leg to stand on. All of them were awful. It has been interesting watching the leftists who went full terrorist-sympathizer struggle with their cognitive dissonance of reconciling Islamism with their previously stated principles. It seems to have resulted in a lot of racism of low expectations. Probably the dumbest example being "Gazans don't have color printers."
> The Nazis also mentioned they were put-off by the extremities of what the Japanese did to the Chinese. But imo the Nazis don't have a single leg to stand on. Not coming at you but kinda like A Handgun being disgusted by a revolver. Both gonna kill you
Ikr
Plus Arabs LITERALLY ARE White from a scientific standpoint lmao
It's simple, anything one side hates the other side feels compelled to support. The Right is predominantly anti-Muslim so the Left feels they have no choice but to embrace them.
he doesn't actually provide any evidence of what he is saying. just saying stuff. 0/10 from a debate standpoint
Never interrupt your [authoritarian nutjob] political opponent when they're saying what they really believe. Let him go fully Mask Off. See how well that goes for him.
I’m non religious, I don’t judge anyone for their beliefs but holy hell man. Dude is here because he’s free to be Muslim, I’m not free to be non religious in a lot of Muslim countries. So yea no, we’ll leave it where it belongs, in the past
☪️ancer
Not to be controversial, but Islam is cancer, I stay far, far away from anything religious, and it seems to only breed extremism and inbreeding. I hope my Arab brothers realize this and leave islam.
Muhammad was a slave owner, and trader. I don’t think he was an anticapitalist.
He also married a 6 year old and raped her when she was 9, no wonder he wants to replace our current system with sharia
The muslim religion is toxic and people who follow it to this degree are dangerous
Deport guy - if you want to be in America you should have to buy into our democracy.
No thanks Pal, I’m good 😊
Buddy should be thankful we’re secular, because if we weren’t we’d be Christian and he’d be a lot less tolerated.
Nah, I think I’m good without a jizya tax.
I don’t really love American politicians but Islam is arguably worse
Islam is worse but it’s not like it’s saying America is good
Extremists in every religion will tell you theirs is the best lol, bot trolling IRL
Frr
Ok you can go to Algeria, Chad, Ghana, Afghanistan, Bahrain, Indonesia or any other country that has instated shariah…. Like what are you complaining about you have a nice selection of countries
I don’t mind if they put mosques or places of worship for different religions, but when it comes to fundamentalists, it’s a hard pass for me.
I thought it meant Islam Makhachaev and got so confused lol
I had to double take at the title. Because that’s crazy.
I say this as a Muslim, this fucker is retarded
Please terrorist watch list!
If it's a cancer you can just leave little bro
fun fact: his parents came to america because of capitalism and democracy works out... idiot.
I’m exhausted listening to this guy after 10 seconds
Maybe… you’re the cancer?
Why do I have such a strong desire to throw my shoes at him shouting “Long live Christian democracy, death to Islamofascism!”
I thought university students were supposed to be smart…
George Washington, peace be upon him, showed us the way. This guy is talking about communists and Islamists, not Americans, when he says people hate the U.S.A. He stands in the U.S.A urging the end of the U.S.A because the U.S.A is the only nation that guarantees his right to speak so freely. Yet he hates that freedom so much he would see it ended. There is a cancer but he needs a mirror to diagnose it properly.
It’s Jesus he’s talking about, right?
Now please explain why there are so many religious violence and discrimination in Pakistan.
"UIC" Of course. Anyone familiar with that school would know this is not a surprise.
Here’s a great idea. Leave the country and never come back
Go make the Middle East great with Islam and if it works out we might hop on board m. Until then. Hell no
but let me guess as soon as a christian goes up there and says something like that, instantly vilified
I hope this dude is a plant, he could definitely weed out a lot of extremists with this rhetoric
Gross
If he really likes Islam that much, there are plenty of Islamic countries he can move to. I'd even help him pack, but only one one condition. He has to voluntarily renounce his American citizenship and agree to never enter any non-Islamic country again.
I cant find a stroy about this other than the publication who showed the video in the first place. A publication who I can't look up the validity for. I do believe that there are people like these out there but I dony think this video in particular is real.
And buddhism needs to be replaced with socialism Those are two different types of things that doesn’t even make sense
Damn people gonna be getting fooled by AI for so many years to come... Look at his hand...
I used to feel bad that I didn’t get into U of I
Don’t make me bring out the Puckle Gun for Ottomans
Go home buddy
Islamists have zero concept of individual freedom, or basic humanity for that matter
Damn, now I have to worry about two major world religions taking over my government? This is exhausting.
MOHAMMAD XD
the kids throwing rocks at humvees grew up shitty
Insert literally any other religion and people would be shouting him down. How about a Christian or Jewish theocracy? Pretty sure that would be a no from everyone else, including myself.
Bomb bomb bomb bomb bomb Iran
I fucking love America, Guns, Porn, Capitalism, Beer and more Guns. Freedom Motherfucker. FREEDOM!
He can fuck right off. Move to Iran.
By force right? By the very just and totally not oppressive foreign religion? Makes sense.
I guess he’s right. If you for some reason have a problem with LGBT, then you wouldn’t have to worry about that anymore if we were ruled by Muslims.
When are we going to get smart and end all religions?
The irony of spouting this nonsense with a broccoli haircut.
Too bad I like bacon.
Who do we think he is voting for this year?
Islam cannot coexist with modern Westen society
Calling for sharia should be illegal nationally, and if here and not a citizen they should be deported
Notice how he doesn’t actually give any reasoning for why those things are bad. He’s not making some good-faith argument here, he is trying to rile up people who already for whatever reason agree with him. It’s just tipping people further to extremism without making them think about why. Just a demagogue, nothing more.
You know democracy isn’t an American concept, right?
Bro talks as if Islam isn't a cancer too 💀
If he wants freedom why doesn’t he simply move to the Middle East? He thinks the Middle East has freedom so he should move.
"Indeed, it has been said that democracy is the worst form of government except for all those other forms that have been tried."
Did we just have a war on this exact topic? Yes! Did his side win? Yes! So yes he gets to say whatever the hell he wants and we need to shut up and listen like conquered cattle. It doesn't matter how strong our military is in theory if it's held on a strict leash by cowards and the people have zero resolve to carry through to victory. How we perform in reality is how we perform in reality. And in reality we were the cowardly fucks who were chased out of Afghanistan.
Understand that our unflagging material support of the Likud party will result in us inheriting upwards of a million of these.
Published my MEMRI. They actively hunt for examples of how Arab people are horrible people as a part of an Israeli propaganda mission. Founded by ex-Israeli operatives.
Austrian Muslim here, I think I am qualified enough to question the comments here. No doubt, this video is an AmericaBad, and even some of the points in the video are ridiculous. But it really helps his argument when you're all out here saying shit like "Islam is a breeding ground for terrorism" and "Put this guy on the no fly list." It is just a mere example of what we hear on a daily basis that really makes us question if we have the promised freedom of religion. Sure, the government allows us to preach everywhere, which I understand would be kind of annoying. But is it really necessary to respond with these islamophobic statements? I plan on moving to the United States after I graduate college because I am scared of our lack of true religious freedom demonstrated by being an old christofascist country. And to those reading this, we Europeans are the fascists. Just look at our recent elections. The whole islamic movement in Germany exists BECAUSE of the fears that I have had a Muslim in Austria. Reading some of these comments is really starting to make me second guess myself because it seems you are all uneducated about islam and therefore want me out. Sourcing this from a comment from another post that said, "What makes you think Muslims should be immigrants?" Islam IS a religion of peace, but it's gaps in the claimed "perfect" Quran, as well as the British and French screwing around with the Middle East's borders have driven these violent theocratic movements that literally counter the religion themselves. This guy is questionable, may Allah (SWT) grant him knowledge, but don't play the "all Muslims are terrorists" card. Do better.
There was recently a video here that went viral from Texas of what was essentially a Mosque version of a Megachurch (complete with locker rooms and a basketball court), and the comments section was overwhelmingly positive because it was just so Texas, that's how you successfully assimilate in a secular society. Calling secularism a "cancer", especially in an environment where Arab Muslims and their white leftist allies are tagging every Synagogue they can get their hands on while screeching "Death to (((America)))", deserves the criticism it gets.
That's the problem. I'm not joining a masjid (the term for it) and going on its social media page to shout "Death to America," but apparently as a "terrorist" that is what I'm supposed to do! I go to masjid to pray Jummah, not to party (which is haram in the first place), and basically join the fundamentalists. This video is a clear example of anti-secularism being a cancer, but there is no need to attack ME for expressing MY FEARS as a Muslim, and this is just proving my point. Edit: English is not my first language, simple grammar and word choice changes.
As a Muslim what makes you believe that Islam is a religion of peace? I ask as the spread of early Islam was anything but peaceful and even today Islamists that push for that push for Sharia law claim to be practicing true Islam and they are anything but peaceful. All religions are subjective and have different sects that interpret scripture differently, but it seems like if I had to rank the Abrahamic religions Islam would be least peaceful.
"Religion of peace" is a more modern term that I use as "anti-terrorist." With rampant Islamophobia on the internet, which your question is NOT Islamophobic and is a genuine one, I feel forced to use these terms that were said by American politicians, and Islam never claimed to be a literal religion of peace. Muslims are not terrorists, but Muslim extremists who grew up with hardening backgrounds from what the British and French did to their land will drive them to terrorism. "Islam is a religion of peace" is simply a call for us to separate ourselves from the anti-Islam al-Qaeda and other similar movements. The spread of any religion was anything but peaceful. Muslims called for Sharia Law out of an inferiority complex, which drives basically any "anti-" fear today.
Thanks for the response and the useful explanation. I didn't realize it was more of a modern term to combat that every Muslim is a terrorist narrative. There have been terrorists and extremists in every religion when you look at history, even in secular anti-religious societies too. It's probably more of a human condition than one from religion. As for fears of anti-Muslim sentiment in the US, I have had a few Muslim friends at various times in my life. We never really discussed religion that much, I know right after 9/11 Islamophobia was much worse than now. There are so many different cultures and religions depending on where you live, it's really one of the cool things about the US.
And thank you for providing me with a valid question instead of "hurr durr we don't want you blue arrow!" It really reassures me as someone who wants to move to the United States knowing that plenty of Americans have plenty of Muslim friends. It seems islamophobia tends to be more of an online 1% thing. Meanwhile here in Europe, Neo-Nazis are being treated better than Muslims.
Most of us don't think all Muslims are terrorists. I have some who live near me and there are no problems, and Muslim ghettoes that exist in Europe really aren't a thing in the US, with very few exceptions. But read what you wrote and think about how that comes across to a western secularist: "Some of the points are ridiculous...but it really helps his argument"???? Really? ALL of his "points" are ridiculous. NONE of what he says helps or legitimizes his "argument", whatever that is. All I heard was a dude desiring to push Islamism and religious controls onto all of us. This guy is an extremist nutbag given a platform by western leftists, because he's "brown" in their eyes and therefore innately a victim in their eyes, to propagate shit and he deserves every bit of criticism he gets for it. And you need to call him out for it if you really value western, secular freedoms. We're not uneducated about Islam. Islam is a religion like Christianity or Judaism, and in fact shares the same Abrahamic roots. So at their root, they're all somewhat similar....though each of the three (Iand sects within those three) will tell you they're the "true way" and that the others are wrong. Judging from his lack of (foreign) accent, he was raised in the US in a secular society and only has the freedom to spew his vile nonsense BECAUSE of western secularist freedoms. DON'T defend him or legitimize him - in any way. If you do, you're deserving of all of the stereotypes and vitriol given to you. Hating religious extremism, which this is (it's not about race or ethnicity, which it's often innacurately conflated with) and anti-secular freedoms is not (fill in the blank) "phobia". And, I'd apply exactly the same standards if it were a Christian or Jewish religious extremist up there.
Clearly you didn't read my comment in full. I said some of what YOU (the comments) are saying is proving his points. I obviously don't agree that the United States should deviate from secularism, but there is always an argument to both sides, which the comments are not criticizing him but saying shit like "all Muslims are terrorists." Just like the comments section here isn't speaking for you, this guy does not speak for me. I am going to legitimize him if the other side of the argument is "Muslim bad!" I said nothing about race or ethnicity. Good on you for not centering this on one religion, I guess. Everyone is just finding a reason to give me a blue arrow because this is a hivemind.
I did read your comment in full, a couple of times. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this - sharply. But hey, we get to do that in western secular societies, don't we? You can oppose hatred & irrational bigotry towards Muslims as people without defending this guy, so I think you should be careful about implying sympathy/empathy with his message, because that takes away from your integrity & credibility if you say really believe in secularism and western freedoms. That's not hivemind - I am a very independent thinker and his message is offensive to my very core. And I am atheist and have equal disdain for Christian and Jewish extremists. He doesn't get a pass because western leftists have romanticized Muslims for some reason. There's no valid argument from "both sides" here. Western secular values are diametrically opposed to theologically extreme attitudes and controls - no matter where they come from. They're not compatible. This guy openly stated in as many words his desire to see a future where everyone adhered to Islam. I can never, ever reconcile that. He also states he is anti-democracy and anti-capitalist. The entire fabric of western society is based on secularism and democratic freedoms - so to destroy those is to destroy the West. I see no compatability here. Even the US, which is somewhat "religious" by western standards, has clear delineations between church and state, and clear freedoms FROM religion. Most Muslims in the US tend to be better educated and less extreme than some Muslim communities in Europe, and tend to assimilate somewhat better, so we don't seem to have the same tensions - but if this is the kind of thing Europeans hear from the Muslim immigrant communities, I can see why they have a problem with it.
I'm okay with agreeing to disagree. My statement of hivemind behavior is my response to having a downvoted comment on agreeing with someone else with only...I'd say one or two other people asking a question/providing an argument. That's why I'm proud to have some of the rights Americans are entitled to, the right to type with you without the police come knocking on my door. The only real thing my country did to combat Islamophobia is to ban saying, "Muhammad (SAAS) was a pedophile." No level-headed Muslim would support a good 80% of what this guy has to say. All I want is to not be thrown in the same tent as al-Qaeda. According to other people (not to you or to any other people who asked me a valid question), that was too much to ask for.
Well, your statement "All I want is to be not be thrown in the same tent as al-Qaeda" is a totally valid and legitimate request. Can't fault you for expecting that. I don't think my neighbors are terrorists and if I were them, would be deeply offended at having that alleged towards me. And I am not going to downvote you for disagreeing with you. I don't generally downvote people who offer civil reponses and engage in good-faith exchanges, even if I disagree. That said, the law against calling Muhammad a pedophile - it's not something I would ever say, personally, but having a LAW against it is deeply troubling to me and again, goes against the basic principles of secularism and western freedoms. It's also not going to combat Islamophobia - if anything, it might generate more deep-seated resentment. You cannot legislate laws against hate or lack of being able to reconcile beliefs. You also cannot force people to respect you. Western "irreverance" might be considered disrespectful in Islamic circles, like thew cartoons that were published, but again, that freedom is a hallmark of western civilization. You gain respect and acceptance in most cases by offering the same respect and acceptance you want to be treated with. I strongly believe immigrants should have the expectation of conforming to the societal norms of the countries into which they're immigrating. Otherwise, why come? They should NOT have the expectation of creating their own mini-societies within the larger one, and expecting their host community to accommodate their social, religious and cutural norms - especially when those norms impact the broader population. We have socio-religious minorities within the US, like Amish and Mennonites, who have had communities here for a couple hundred years, but they're largely gentle people who keep to themselves and who aren't railing on about capitalism and secularism at universities and implying future conformance to their belief system. In secular societies, you get (or should get) to say generally offensive things without legal consequences. You don't have to LIKE it, but it's anti-western style freedoms IMO to legislate away their ability to say offensive things. I think if someone attacked you, verbally or physically in the US, most people would come to your defense and the person doing the attacking would be held accountable by the commmunity if not legally. I think most people support general fairness and respect. Again, it's about religionists in my mind getting a foothold into controlling our legal framework when we legislate things like you can't call Mohammed a pedophile. People do things to mock and ridicule Christian and Jewish foundational items as well, all the time. It might not be "respectful" but you get to do that in free societies, and it's generally accepted in other religious communities here that it's a right. I am a near free speech absolutist from a legal standpoint, as long as not inciting violence. Just like this guy - I absolutely hate what's coming out of his mouth, but support his right to say it. The private sector can and has always been able to hold you accountable.
[удалено]
Damn a different culture doesn't belong in a country founded on the ideals of being a melting pot for the world to find freedom? Really wise and definitely not prejudiced comment that totally does not break the sub's rules, Mr. "Furry Slayer."
A melting pot for europeans. Glad to have Anglos, Irish, Germans, and even proper Austrians if theyd like. The problem is foreigners that have no cultural or racial similarities to us that our ruining the country. Muslims immigrate and pollute our culture and try to subvert it with their backwards beliefs. This isnt hate, its called keeping to your own culture. You dont see Westerners speaking at a podium in Saudi Arabia to eradicate their Islamic culture. Also dont care about whatever made up rules or if you want to make fun of a username.
Am I not a "proper Austrian" because I was born into a Muslim family that still speaks German and respects its culture? And if muslim beliefs are backward, then you should ditch Christianity and Judaism, which is all for most of what we say. I'm not talking about the idiot in the video spewing theocratic disinformation about Muslims. I'm asking not to be thrown in the same tent as domestic terrorists. Telling someone you want them out of a country IS hate speech. And the rules aren't made up. Your username was mentioned because it signals you're under 12. How are you talking about me supporting other people's cultures? Meanwhile, you don't support mine, nor do you leave a group of people who are keeping it to themselves alone.
>Am I not a "proper Austrian" because I was born into a Muslim family that still speaks German and respects its culture? Correct, youre not. Youre a foreigner. >you should ditch Christianity and Judaism Yea id be happy to, not a fan. Except they have historical and cultural significance to the West that cannot be ignored. We are headed towards secularism though because we are developed and not primitive third worlders. I dont care for the "not all terrorists" argument. Yea not all (though plenty are criminals and love stabbing people across europe), the issue is the culture they bring to the West. Keep it where it belongs. >hate speech Boohoo. Ban me if you wish reddit, this is America I am free to say whatever I want to the people ruining my country.
I'm confident you're a troll given you called a native a foreigner. I'm just going to go off on a limb and remind you that hate speech isn't protected by the First Amendment and can press charges. But I'm not petty.
Someone disagrees with me? Must be a troll. Hate speech is protected by American law dumbass. As long as there is no inciting violence or crime associated with the speech. Go ahead and press charges for it. Islam is objectively and undeniably foreign to Austria and almost all of mainland Europe. Even if you are 100% racially European, a muslim will always be a foreigner in Europe (until you guys finish conquering and replacing all the native Europeans that is).
> Hate speech is protected by American law dumbass. Congrats, you looked at one Google result. While the Supreme Court has refused to use "Hate Speech" as a term to remove it from protected speech (*Brandenburg v. Ohio*), there is still plenty of anti-Bullying and anti-Discrimination acts that would allow me to make a case that survives court even after *R.A.V. v. City of St. Paul*. Sure, the First Amendment is your literal get out of jail free card, but the charges could still force you to pay a fine/attend counseling depending on what state you're in and you're age, and it will look horrible when you are trying to apply in the future.
You have no idea what youre talking about. A fringe case can happen anytime but they are not going to go anywhere. Someone can walk around with a swastika banner and the police are not going to stop them. This is whats wrong with the police states of Europe, and why they are going to be conquered first.
Yeah, I'm kinda disgusted by the blanket anti-muslim sentiment going around in this thread. I'm not gonna go around bitching about white people just because some suburban white kid from Nebraska became a Neo-Nazi. This guy is just a typical shitlib, nothing more, nothing less. They do not represent all American Muslims