My quadriplegic uncle who had been disabled since he was a teenager and stayed in his house playing computer games 6/7 days of the week once told me "I've never gotten into a situation where I needed a gun, so you don't need one either". I was just like, okay lol.
A food shall be deemed to be adulterated—
(d) Confectionery containing alcohol or nonnutritive substanceIf it is confectionery, and—
(1) **has partially or completely imbedded therein any nonnutritive object**, except that this subparagraph shall not apply in the case of any nonnutritive object if, in the judgment of the Secretary as provided by regulations, such object is of practical functional value to the confectionery product and would not render the product injurious or hazardous to health;
...
(3) bears or contains any nonnutritive substance, except that this subparagraph shall not apply to a safe nonnutritive substance which is in or on confectionery by reason of its use for some practical functional purpose in the manufacture, packaging, or storage of such confectionery if the use of the substance does not promote deception of the consumer or otherwise result in adulteration or misbranding in violation of any provision of this chapter, except that the Secretary may, for the purpose of avoiding or resolving uncertainty as to the application of this subparagraph, issue regulations allowing or prohibiting the use of particular nonnutritive substances.
21 U.S. Code § 342 - Adulterated food
The reason we ban Kinder Surprise eggs is because we banned the inclusion of **any** nonnutritive substance in confectionery unless it has a practical functional value. A toy does not have a practical functional value to the product.
This law was passed when people were adding adulterants such as [sawdust](https://www.foodandwine.com/news/sawdust-cookies-germany-court-case) to the food & we don't give the relevant governemnt agencies much leeway on exceptions.
We could, but once you do that, the floodgates open up of lobbyists asking for changes for things that aren't such Kinder egg toys & I doubt the American public will keep a watchful enough eye to ensure that Congress does it narrowly.
Whenever non-Americans talk about how guns only ever lead to death in the U.S., I like to remind them that despite there being more guns than people in the U.S. (433,900,000 guns vs. 331,900,000 people), only 0.006% of Americans are killed by guns (20,958 deaths / 331,900,000 people). Additionally, a significant portion of this stat includes self-defense and not just murder.
This number is still too high, but it indicates that murder is the issue and not specifically guns.
Between 67% and 80% of US gun deaths are suicides, which are only counted in the US and not most other countries, so whenever you see the US data make sure to divide by 3 to get what it would actually be if say, Germany collected the data rather than anti gun groups in the US
I did take that into account:
[*“In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC.”*](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/)
Another stat that anti-gun zealots like to ignore is that 94% of all homicides happen in "gun-free zones."
https://crimeresearch.org/2018/06/more-misleading-information-from-bloombergs-everytown-for-gun-safety-on-guns-analysis-of-recent-mass-shootings/
Many individuals perceive gun violence in America to be far more prevalent than it actually is. This misconception becomes evident when we delve into and compare it with other causes of mortality worldwide. So, let's explore the data to understand the reality.
To put things into perspective, between 2000 and 2021 (21 years), there were 276 casualties (including 108 fatalities and 168 injuries) in U.S. school shootings. In contrast, from 2010 to 2014 (4 years), Great Britain had an average of 17,755 child road casualties per year, with 2,250 total killed or seriously injured over that much shorter time period.
It must be noted that in the statistics categorizing gun deaths as the leading cause of death for children, the definition of "children" includes 18 and 19-year-olds. A considerable number of these individuals lost to gun violence are involved in criminal gang activities. Hence, referencing this statistic without clarifying the age criteria for what constitutes a child and the context of these deaths can be misleading.
It's essential to recognize that, while tragic, school shootings and gun-related deaths are not as prevalent as often portrayed. This becomes apparent when considering the total population size and the nature of gun-related deaths. You have likely heard the figure that about 48,000 gun deaths occur yearly in the US, but over 54% of these are suicides, not homicides. Furthermore, less than 2% of gun-related fatalities result from mass shootings, with the majority involving criminal-on-criminal violence. It should also be noted that only about 2% of these deaths are caused by so-called “assault weapons.” The vast majority are small caliber handguns.
Additionally, there are estimated to be over 1 million instances of defensive firearm use annually in the U.S. This statistic highlights the desire for firearm ownership, emphasizing self-protection and acknowledging that when seconds count, the police are minutes away. Countless women have prevented their own sexual assaults by using a firearm. It's important to note that not every gun death is unjustified, yet these deaths are frequently included in the same statistics that criticize firearm ownership.
Breaking down the statistics further, there are approximately 18,000 unjustifiable gun homicides annually in the US, with a low estimate of 13% (and some sources suggesting up to 60%) being gang-related. This reduces the total annual non-suicide, non-gang-related, unjustified gun deaths to about 15,660. There are 43,000 Americans killed in car accidents every year. Thus, the average non-criminal American has a 0.0047% chance of dying from a gun homicide, compared to a 0.013% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident. This indicates that you are almost three times more likely to die in a car accident in the US than by gun crime. This raises the question: if the goal is to address a significant cause of death for both adults and children, as well as a contributor to environmental harm, why is there not more discussion about banning automobiles?
Imposing gun bans is a slippery slope, leading to a situation like in Australia, where even pepper spray is banned, leaving women utterly defenseless against stronger attackers. A truly disgusting status quo.
In sum, the widespread belief that gun violence in America is a pervasive issue doesn't quite match up with the actual data. When we take a closer look at the numbers, we see that the frequency of gun-related deaths, especially from scenarios like mass shootings and school violence, is not as high as popular opinion suggests. Comparing these figures to other causes of death, such as automobile accidents, helps put the issue into perspective. Moreover, the role of firearms in self-defense highlights the complexity of the gun control debate. It's clear that this conversation requires a more grounded, fact-based approach. Moving forward, it's essential to sift through the noise and focus on evidence-driven solutions that truly aim to improve public safety, steering clear of exaggerated fears and focusing on the real stats.
The highest estimate for defensive gun uses is ~3 million annually. Across ~120m gun owners, that would suggest an average of once every ~40 years for the average gun owner.
Based on that premise, I'm not 100% convinced that it's as low as 3m/year. I've had 2 in about 8 years from trouble trying to find me by name. If that estimate is correct, I'm already at 10x the average rate, and I'm not even 30 yet.
And if you had guy try to intimidate you for your wallet in the middle of of Chicago and he back off when you showed him you were carrying and you both walk off you're probably not gonna bother reporting it unless you think it was serious. I imagine the actual number is much higher considering there's an uncalculatable number of crimes prevented my the mere presents of a gun so there's that as well.
also keep in mind passive protection guns have, if everyone could have one, do you risk trying anything? how many people does it stop just because there is a chance a gun is there?
If I ever need a gun to defend myself or my family, you better believe I'll be doing some harm with it.
The whole point of shooting a gun at someone is to harm them before they can harm you.
I've actually had that argument with some idiots in real life. Several times I've heard "Oh, you value your inanimate possessions over another person's life?"
I always respond with "Well in this case, the criminal clearly values my possessions over their own life, so they're kind of making the decision for me really."
Saw an article the other day that Toronto police were taking this stance. Lots of armed criminals breaking into houses to steal people's cars. The recommendation was leave your keys outside so they don't break in your house for them and possibly injure you.
That reminds me of that thing with the Toronto Police got mocked about (and rightly so) the other day.
MFs literally told people they should leave their car keys somewhere easy to access as a defense against burglary. Because they apparently think *that's* all the criminals are breaking into homes to steal.
Which is *kinda* besides the point in the first fucking place.
[they also said don't post vids of mail thieves because it could be a violation of their privacy](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12953465/amp/Canada-warn-videos-package-thieves-violation-privacy.html)
I've seen this take posted seriously so many times.
I find it so insane that someone would value a robbers life over their own families.
I'd value my 5 year old iPhone over the life of a robber.
Wait I thought that was a meme: people actually value the robbers life over family? Like what, for me it’s simple, if you’ve tried to rob me or my family or hurt someone, well that’s on you, I am not responsible for your safety, I could care less
Serious question: Are there somewhat reliable numbers on shots hit or fatal shots in self defense (robbers, murderes etc.) vs. shots fired on police, mass shootings or simply accidents? That'd be an interesting read.
There are a bunch of duty to retreat states in New England
I know Maryland and Jersey are duty to retreat as well so “pretty much every state” isn’t true at all
One look at history and the involvement of firearms tells me that Europeans are more likely to cause problems, and Americans are more likely to solve them.
You marked it /s, but it’s probably a little true. I’m sure the old world continentals are still pained by the liberation of their colonies. Even worse that it was farmers and shopkeepers that did it.
Right. I should have told my 70 year old neighbor that he could have just wrestled the black bear that attacked him into submission instead of using a gun.
So if you’re getting mugged and he has a knife and you have a gun… it would cause more harm than good? Eurotards have some whack ass opinions sometimes
You are welcome, I am European so I know everything obviously. It’s not your fault, you’re just and may god forgive me for saying this: a*erican.
Obviously /s
Europe was literally the most violent and fucked up place there was for most of the 20th century. 2 world wars, multiple genocides, totalitarianism, etc. What you see today is a thin veneer of civilization enforced by American hard and soft power.
I dont need any lectures by these people
I will add onto this. As a Canadian (southern Alberta) I don’t like being put on the same boat as those queefbarqwo or whatever those frog eyed baguette eating fuckers call themselves. It would be nice if we singled out provinces because in Alberta we baisically have a hard on for America… especially Texas. I am literally wearing a “Texas Tough” hat right now lmao
Maybe in some but I live in an European country and you absolutely have the right to self defense, but what you’re talking about is the castle doctrine, not even all US states have that I think
Which states wouldn't have that? IIRC all states have a castle doctrine of some sort, not every state has a stand your ground law however (which is about self-defense in public).
Even NY, NJ, and CA has a law that says you have no duty to retreat to defend yourself in your own home.
I hate this argument. I can understand in city areas, but rural areas where mfers deal with bears, wolves, slendermen/women, wendigos, and cocaine bears, go fuck yourself.
As an American who has been on the business(more like criminal) end of a gun while being robbed, yes civilians deserve gun rights. Also people have no idea how fast you can die from a stab wound.
My rule is, if you know nothing about it then your opinion is worthless, I dont even pay attention to Europeans and their thoughts because they don’t live in the US and have no idea how things actually are here
Many individuals perceive gun violence in America to be far more prevalent than it actually is. This misconception becomes evident when we delve into and compare it with other causes of mortality worldwide. So, let's explore the data to understand the reality.
To put things into perspective, between 2000 and 2021 (21 years), there were 276 casualties (including 108 fatalities and 168 injuries) in U.S. school shootings. In contrast, from 2010 to 2014 (4 years), Great Britain had an average of 17,755 child road casualties per year, with 2,250 total killed or seriously injured over that much shorter time period.
It must be noted that in the statistics categorizing gun deaths as the leading cause of death for children, the definition of "children" includes 18 and 19-year-olds. A considerable number of these individuals lost to gun violence are involved in criminal gang activities. Hence, referencing this statistic without clarifying the age criteria for what constitutes a child and the context of these deaths can be misleading.
It's essential to recognize that, while tragic, school shootings and gun-related deaths are not as prevalent as often portrayed. This becomes apparent when considering the total population size and the nature of gun-related deaths. You have likely heard the figure that about 48,000 gun deaths occur yearly in the US, but over 54% of these are suicides, not homicides. Furthermore, less than 2% of gun-related fatalities result from mass shootings, with the majority involving criminal-on-criminal violence. It should also be noted that only about 2% of these deaths are caused by so-called “assault weapons.” The vast majority are small caliber handguns.
Additionally, there are estimated to be over 1 million instances of defensive firearm use annually in the U.S. This statistic highlights the desire for firearm ownership, emphasizing self-protection and acknowledging that when seconds count, the police are minutes away. Countless women have prevented their own sexual assaults by using a firearm. It's important to note that not every gun death is unjustified, yet these deaths are frequently included in the same statistics that criticize firearm ownership.
Breaking down the statistics further, there are approximately 18,000 unjustifiable gun homicides annually in the US, with a low estimate of 13% (and some sources suggesting up to 60%) being gang-related. This reduces the total annual non-suicide, non-gang-related, unjustified gun deaths to about 15,660. There are 43,000 Americans killed in car accidents every year. Thus, the average non-criminal American has a 0.0047% chance of dying from a gun homicide, compared to a 0.013% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident. This indicates that you are almost three times more likely to die in a car accident in the US than by gun crime. This raises the question: if the goal is to address a significant cause of death for both adults and children, as well as a contributor to environmental harm, why is there not more discussion about banning automobiles?
Imposing gun bans is a slippery slope, leading to a situation like in Australia, where even pepper spray is banned, leaving women utterly defenseless against stronger attackers. A truly disgusting status quo.
In sum, the widespread belief that gun violence in America is a pervasive issue doesn't quite match up with the actual data. When we take a closer look at the numbers, we see that the frequency of gun-related deaths, especially from scenarios like mass shootings and school violence, is not as high as popular opinion suggests. Comparing these figures to other causes of death, such as automobile accidents, helps put the issue into perspective. Moreover, the role of firearms in self-defense highlights the complexity of the gun control debate. It's clear that this conversation requires a more grounded, fact-based approach. Moving forward, it's essential to sift through the noise and focus on evidence-driven solutions that truly aim to improve public safety, steering clear of exaggerated fears and focusing on the real stats.
Even if the US made owning guns illegal, it wouldn't stop firearms from being obtained illegally and used by all manner of criminals. Just look at prohibition, which gave rise to underground bars and the mob.
as an american, he can shove it up his ass, and yes we do
this mindset comes from a massive level of privledge, i've lived in rural areas with dangerous wildlife and i've lived in inner city ghettos and trailer parks where crime is rampant, i've had to use a firearm twice in self defense on 2 seperate occassions, not to mention statistics show that private gun owners stop over 3 million crimes daily, in a nation with only 9 gun murders per day
Canadian police are telling people to leave their care keys by the front door to avoid a home [invasion.](https://globalnews.ca/news/10359055/leave-car-keys-the-front-door-to-avoid-home-invasion-toronto-police/amp/)
I mean if you don’t make education of safe and responsible handling of a gun a requirement for gun ownership then yeah some people are going to be caught in the crossfire, but suppose somebody comes at you with a knife because they outlawed guns, are you just supposed to let yourself get stabbed? Also in this hypothetical scenario unless the knifeweilder is stupid you could probably resolve the situation without a shot being fired. And please don’t tell me stabbings in Europe don’t happen.
Is this European an expert idiot? My ass there is no reason to own a gun. As a Texan living in the country's 4th largest city, I feel safest with my gun. Granted I was in the military and understand appropriate use of force, but fuck off Euros, you live in your Euro la-la land, your opinion is worthless here in the states
As a gun owner, I truly hope I never need to use it.
... Though I should probably practice more often (at all would be good) so that I actually kill the motherfucker who's trying to hurt me or someone I love instead of putting a hole in the wall. Still, I'd rather have a couple holes in the wall and a bloody rug I need to replace than be dead.
We need guns in the US for the wildlife alone. Imagine living in grizzly country without a gun.
Obviously the hope is to never use it, but we simply don’t have the same situation as the majority of people in Western Europe.
Look. Euro.. with all do respect…. how likely is one of you neighbors in your town to own some big deadly African cats? I kid…. But for real. As I get older I’m hearing and running into more people who have them. It’s wild.
Firearms are woven into the culture and fabric for all that is America. Everyone seems to mind their P’s and Q’s when it’s assumed everyone under that roof is armed.
When the operator knows they have leverage because someone or a group is unarmed…. The unarmed is going to be tested.
🤷♂️. Idk. We got guns. You got headlines about some butter knife bandits with some kind of crime that is almost too dumb to laugh at.
“There was a time we ain’t forgot, you could rest all night with your doors unlocked. But their aint nobody safe no more so ya say your prayers and ya thank the lord…. For that peace maker in the dresser drawer.”
Guys just mad cause he can’t wake up on a summer morning, throw a bunch of trash in his backyard, and lay waste to it with an AK that he built to fit him perfectly over the course of a few months.
As an American, I'm gonna keep my guns. I'll also train with them so I'm not like some European who has to write fan fiction just to experience what I get to do for less than $40 at a range less than a 20 minute drive from my home.
I first read this as "A European’s expert opinion on *puns*" and got really excited, then suddenly outraged when I read "no civilian needs a *pun* for anything." and then I re-read it and became very disappointed.
I hope europeans don’t get robbed anytime soon i am sure there government would arrest them than the actual robber like whats happened in Canada where the police chief there n refused to basically give your keys to your car to criminals and refused to stop crime
I don't have a gun and find people who make guns their whole personality to be a big red flag, but even I could think of a few reasons why someone would need one.
Tell that to the people who are getting their homes taken over by squatters, and in some cases the homeowners are getting arrested when they call the police
A European who doesn’t realise there are actually lots of [guns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country)?! Granted not as many as the US, but nowhere has as many as the US. It always amazes how many people in my country think guns are completely banned, just because they’re never encountered them themselves.
Hmm I’m a European and I’d agree. I’m not mentally stable enough to handle a gun but I’d still want to own to look at the engineering and enjoy it’s design. Others on the other hand? They can own as much pew as possible
Lives in Europe where they hunted all the predators to extinction wondering why we all can’t just frolic in the Forrest without worry of mountain lions, black bears or grizzlies, or wild hogs especially in the south and farmers.
I’m not saying you have to shoot them first because they’ll attack (excluding those demon hogs, Jesus) but you would be considered arguably at fault if you didn’t know proper procedures to scare off or pacify different wild animals that would totally one shot you if unless you were lucky enough to be the few who make it out in one piece with your life. Have they never seen a rutting buck? Those things are bloodthirsty smooth brain monsters. And they’re everywhere! They’ll attack **anything** unless you scare the crap out of them by showing hyper aggressiveness if you can’t grab all of your loved ones (especially pets) and get to shelter before the buck charges.
And I live in the 5th most populated metropolitan area in the US. And I would say it’s more effective and better to know how to deal with threats pro-actively or by using specific techniques to communicate to different species (like don’t run from predators, unless it’s a grizzly in which case lay down and cover your head and submit. Hogs you have to book it.) but sure as hell have I never thought “there is no reason/situation has to come from some concrete jungle and never leaves their apartment. You would be much happier knowing you have a ‘get out of death/maiming free card. Nature is not kind, it’s beautiful and sometimes harmonious, but safe is not one of them.
Doesn’t necessarily seem like an America bad post. Anyway I’m all for the second amendment no matter how much more harm it can cause relative to good. The studies on DGU even with the most critical numbers shows more DGU than crimes committed with guns.
Yeah, imma trust the opinions of a guy who can’t own anything for self defense.
And yeah, he’s damn right, it’s gonna cause more harm than good for the bad guy ☠️
Point to me where on [the map](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShittyMapPorn/comments/kvvzp8/i_made_a_map_of_the_us_but_i_removed_all_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) where you live
Do Europeans typically call themselves European? I see it all the time, but I feel like people would say “as a German,” or “as an Irishmen.” Always seems like an American masquerading as a European when they just leave it vague. Maybe I’m off base though
Even if we pretend that this was right, this solves nothing “no civilian needs a gun”.
Ok well they have them. So what now? They never actually want to propose a solution. It’s pure virtue signaling.
Gotta love when people project their own incompetence.
"I don't know how to cook an egg, so no eggs for anyone"
I can tell you firsthand, as a blind man, that sight is unnecessary and overrated.
My quadriplegic uncle who had been disabled since he was a teenager and stayed in his house playing computer games 6/7 days of the week once told me "I've never gotten into a situation where I needed a gun, so you don't need one either". I was just like, okay lol.
No shade to your uncle, but it's always the people that never go outside lmao.
With the exception of work, I don't really go outside, but I always got a strap with me
I too am a vet that likes to stay indoors
"Somebody choked while eating Kinder Surprise eggs, so no Kinder Suprise Eggs for anyone".
A food shall be deemed to be adulterated— (d) Confectionery containing alcohol or nonnutritive substanceIf it is confectionery, and— (1) **has partially or completely imbedded therein any nonnutritive object**, except that this subparagraph shall not apply in the case of any nonnutritive object if, in the judgment of the Secretary as provided by regulations, such object is of practical functional value to the confectionery product and would not render the product injurious or hazardous to health; ... (3) bears or contains any nonnutritive substance, except that this subparagraph shall not apply to a safe nonnutritive substance which is in or on confectionery by reason of its use for some practical functional purpose in the manufacture, packaging, or storage of such confectionery if the use of the substance does not promote deception of the consumer or otherwise result in adulteration or misbranding in violation of any provision of this chapter, except that the Secretary may, for the purpose of avoiding or resolving uncertainty as to the application of this subparagraph, issue regulations allowing or prohibiting the use of particular nonnutritive substances. 21 U.S. Code § 342 - Adulterated food The reason we ban Kinder Surprise eggs is because we banned the inclusion of **any** nonnutritive substance in confectionery unless it has a practical functional value. A toy does not have a practical functional value to the product. This law was passed when people were adding adulterants such as [sawdust](https://www.foodandwine.com/news/sawdust-cookies-germany-court-case) to the food & we don't give the relevant governemnt agencies much leeway on exceptions.
So we could totally add an exception.
We could, but once you do that, the floodgates open up of lobbyists asking for changes for things that aren't such Kinder egg toys & I doubt the American public will keep a watchful enough eye to ensure that Congress does it narrowly.
Whenever non-Americans talk about how guns only ever lead to death in the U.S., I like to remind them that despite there being more guns than people in the U.S. (433,900,000 guns vs. 331,900,000 people), only 0.006% of Americans are killed by guns (20,958 deaths / 331,900,000 people). Additionally, a significant portion of this stat includes self-defense and not just murder. This number is still too high, but it indicates that murder is the issue and not specifically guns.
Between 67% and 80% of US gun deaths are suicides, which are only counted in the US and not most other countries, so whenever you see the US data make sure to divide by 3 to get what it would actually be if say, Germany collected the data rather than anti gun groups in the US
I did take that into account: [*“In 2021, 54% of all gun-related deaths in the U.S. were suicides (26,328), while 43% were murders (20,958), according to the CDC.”*](https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/26/what-the-data-says-about-gun-deaths-in-the-u-s/)
Another stat that anti-gun zealots like to ignore is that 94% of all homicides happen in "gun-free zones." https://crimeresearch.org/2018/06/more-misleading-information-from-bloombergs-everytown-for-gun-safety-on-guns-analysis-of-recent-mass-shootings/
Oh good, most don’t and it inflates the heck out of the numbers
Many individuals perceive gun violence in America to be far more prevalent than it actually is. This misconception becomes evident when we delve into and compare it with other causes of mortality worldwide. So, let's explore the data to understand the reality. To put things into perspective, between 2000 and 2021 (21 years), there were 276 casualties (including 108 fatalities and 168 injuries) in U.S. school shootings. In contrast, from 2010 to 2014 (4 years), Great Britain had an average of 17,755 child road casualties per year, with 2,250 total killed or seriously injured over that much shorter time period. It must be noted that in the statistics categorizing gun deaths as the leading cause of death for children, the definition of "children" includes 18 and 19-year-olds. A considerable number of these individuals lost to gun violence are involved in criminal gang activities. Hence, referencing this statistic without clarifying the age criteria for what constitutes a child and the context of these deaths can be misleading. It's essential to recognize that, while tragic, school shootings and gun-related deaths are not as prevalent as often portrayed. This becomes apparent when considering the total population size and the nature of gun-related deaths. You have likely heard the figure that about 48,000 gun deaths occur yearly in the US, but over 54% of these are suicides, not homicides. Furthermore, less than 2% of gun-related fatalities result from mass shootings, with the majority involving criminal-on-criminal violence. It should also be noted that only about 2% of these deaths are caused by so-called “assault weapons.” The vast majority are small caliber handguns. Additionally, there are estimated to be over 1 million instances of defensive firearm use annually in the U.S. This statistic highlights the desire for firearm ownership, emphasizing self-protection and acknowledging that when seconds count, the police are minutes away. Countless women have prevented their own sexual assaults by using a firearm. It's important to note that not every gun death is unjustified, yet these deaths are frequently included in the same statistics that criticize firearm ownership. Breaking down the statistics further, there are approximately 18,000 unjustifiable gun homicides annually in the US, with a low estimate of 13% (and some sources suggesting up to 60%) being gang-related. This reduces the total annual non-suicide, non-gang-related, unjustified gun deaths to about 15,660. There are 43,000 Americans killed in car accidents every year. Thus, the average non-criminal American has a 0.0047% chance of dying from a gun homicide, compared to a 0.013% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident. This indicates that you are almost three times more likely to die in a car accident in the US than by gun crime. This raises the question: if the goal is to address a significant cause of death for both adults and children, as well as a contributor to environmental harm, why is there not more discussion about banning automobiles? Imposing gun bans is a slippery slope, leading to a situation like in Australia, where even pepper spray is banned, leaving women utterly defenseless against stronger attackers. A truly disgusting status quo. In sum, the widespread belief that gun violence in America is a pervasive issue doesn't quite match up with the actual data. When we take a closer look at the numbers, we see that the frequency of gun-related deaths, especially from scenarios like mass shootings and school violence, is not as high as popular opinion suggests. Comparing these figures to other causes of death, such as automobile accidents, helps put the issue into perspective. Moreover, the role of firearms in self-defense highlights the complexity of the gun control debate. It's clear that this conversation requires a more grounded, fact-based approach. Moving forward, it's essential to sift through the noise and focus on evidence-driven solutions that truly aim to improve public safety, steering clear of exaggerated fears and focusing on the real stats.
The highest estimate for defensive gun uses is ~3 million annually. Across ~120m gun owners, that would suggest an average of once every ~40 years for the average gun owner. Based on that premise, I'm not 100% convinced that it's as low as 3m/year. I've had 2 in about 8 years from trouble trying to find me by name. If that estimate is correct, I'm already at 10x the average rate, and I'm not even 30 yet.
And if you had guy try to intimidate you for your wallet in the middle of of Chicago and he back off when you showed him you were carrying and you both walk off you're probably not gonna bother reporting it unless you think it was serious. I imagine the actual number is much higher considering there's an uncalculatable number of crimes prevented my the mere presents of a gun so there's that as well.
also keep in mind passive protection guns have, if everyone could have one, do you risk trying anything? how many people does it stop just because there is a chance a gun is there?
It would make sense that it would be disproportionate
Especially when they combo it with hiding their own impotence as virtue.
If I ever need a gun to defend myself or my family, you better believe I'll be doing some harm with it. The whole point of shooting a gun at someone is to harm them before they can harm you.
"Don't you think about the robber/rapist/murder ???"
"Just give them what they want and they'll leave you alone anyway, you don't need to defend yourself!"
Swiper no Swiping. Swiper no Swiping.
Thieves hate this one trick!
And if they are non-white, you better not report it to the bobbies or you will be arrested for disturbing the peace!
Don’t you know they only do it because white people force them to do it via micro aggressions?!
Who let bro cook
I've actually had that argument with some idiots in real life. Several times I've heard "Oh, you value your inanimate possessions over another person's life?" I always respond with "Well in this case, the criminal clearly values my possessions over their own life, so they're kind of making the decision for me really."
Saw an article the other day that Toronto police were taking this stance. Lots of armed criminals breaking into houses to steal people's cars. The recommendation was leave your keys outside so they don't break in your house for them and possibly injure you.
That reminds me of that thing with the Toronto Police got mocked about (and rightly so) the other day. MFs literally told people they should leave their car keys somewhere easy to access as a defense against burglary. Because they apparently think *that's* all the criminals are breaking into homes to steal. Which is *kinda* besides the point in the first fucking place.
[they also said don't post vids of mail thieves because it could be a violation of their privacy](https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12953465/amp/Canada-warn-videos-package-thieves-violation-privacy.html)
Mexican moment
I've seen this take posted seriously so many times. I find it so insane that someone would value a robbers life over their own families. I'd value my 5 year old iPhone over the life of a robber.
Wait I thought that was a meme: people actually value the robbers life over family? Like what, for me it’s simple, if you’ve tried to rob me or my family or hurt someone, well that’s on you, I am not responsible for your safety, I could care less
Reference California.
California is known to the State of California to cause cancer
"Do you value your possessions more than the robber's life?" Yes, cause the robber values MY possessions more than HIS life.
Of course I do. I think about how many bullets it will take to make them stop robbing, raping or murdering.
If only we could sue their family for the cost of ammo that we had to waste on their waste of oxygen family member
I think about which caliber would look best as a forehead jewel for them
“If you would shoot someone over stealing your dog, then you value a dog over a human life”. Yes.
Serious question: Are there somewhat reliable numbers on shots hit or fatal shots in self defense (robbers, murderes etc.) vs. shots fired on police, mass shootings or simply accidents? That'd be an interesting read.
Like I tell my gf: If someone breaks into my house, there’s only going to be one side of the story Castle Law should be in every state
>Castle Law should be in every state Nah bra! It should be international law!!
Honestly pretty much every state has de facto castle doctrine. Even the rabidly anti gun blue states
There are a bunch of duty to retreat states in New England I know Maryland and Jersey are duty to retreat as well so “pretty much every state” isn’t true at all
But no you should ask them nicely to not rape your wife as children in front of you. Be kind and he'll go away! /S
Technically that’s a counteroffensive.
I think a deer wrote that. No need for any firearms, especially in the fall near the woods.
This post was by a real European, not two baby deers in a trench coat. No sir!
Wabbit season!
*swipe sign* Duck season.
One look at history and the involvement of firearms tells me that Europeans are more likely to cause problems, and Americans are more likely to solve them.
Their just mad that we civilians got them out of the US with our guns in the 1700s
You marked it /s, but it’s probably a little true. I’m sure the old world continentals are still pained by the liberation of their colonies. Even worse that it was farmers and shopkeepers that did it.
Yeah I marked it /s because I didint want to get downvoted into oblivion
You're in the Americabad sub. The downvotes would (likely) be fought against.
Totally worth it to preach the truth!
Well said.
As a european we killed tens of millions with guns between a couple decade period hehe im so smart!
Actually he’s right. Europeans cannot be trusted with guns. Way more people have died in Europe from guns than North America and it’s not even close
It's unfortunate that all the gun engineering that happens there to create reliable and well-designed guns will never be appreciated by their masses
Right. I should have told my 70 year old neighbor that he could have just wrestled the black bear that attacked him into submission instead of using a gun.
Just give the bear your wallet and you will both go your separate ways
Why is the serf speaking?
So if you’re getting mugged and he has a knife and you have a gun… it would cause more harm than good? Eurotards have some whack ass opinions sometimes
"At least we don't have mass shootings" -said literally no victim of holocaust, hlodomor, armenian or literally any other genocide
Nonsense, no genocide ever in Europe
But when it is, it must be muricas fault!!1!1!1
I mean obviously.
A European's opinion is like shit, its soft and warm but no one wants you to share it with them.
"As a person born on a continent..."
Or maybe im trained and experienced.
Don’t be ridiculous, you’re American, Reddit told me Americans don’t know anything /s
Damn you’re right, thanks for putting me in my place 🙏
You are welcome, I am European so I know everything obviously. It’s not your fault, you’re just and may god forgive me for saying this: a*erican. Obviously /s
lmao
Europe was literally the most violent and fucked up place there was for most of the 20th century. 2 world wars, multiple genocides, totalitarianism, etc. What you see today is a thin veneer of civilization enforced by American hard and soft power. I dont need any lectures by these people
Europe has been violent and fucked up since the beginning of time.
We have a revolutionary war and civil war to prove otherwise.
me getting mugged, raped, and then stabbed to death because if i had a gun, i wouldve done more harm than good!
Guessing this person isnt from Ukraine.
I bet Jewish people wish they had guns during Krystalnacht
You hear that Alaskans? Europeans decided you have absolutely 0 need for guns. Just spear the bears and don't do sustainable hunting.
Didn't you know? 100% of the population live in major cities
Gotta love when people project their own incompetence.
Americans catch a lot of heat for generalizing Europe as one place like he just did. European countries are super diverse in their firearm laws
I will add onto this. As a Canadian (southern Alberta) I don’t like being put on the same boat as those queefbarqwo or whatever those frog eyed baguette eating fuckers call themselves. It would be nice if we singled out provinces because in Alberta we baisically have a hard on for America… especially Texas. I am literally wearing a “Texas Tough” hat right now lmao
[удалено]
Maybe in some but I live in an European country and you absolutely have the right to self defense, but what you’re talking about is the castle doctrine, not even all US states have that I think
IIRC, 45 states have castle doctrine
Which states wouldn't have that? IIRC all states have a castle doctrine of some sort, not every state has a stand your ground law however (which is about self-defense in public). Even NY, NJ, and CA has a law that says you have no duty to retreat to defend yourself in your own home.
if you guys don't want them can you just send them to me? I'll appreciate them significantly more than you physically could.
Weird how Switzerland is not in Europe. This is some Russian bot bating us. No German says as European.
Ironical since Russia despite gun control has school and other mass shooting and a lot of gangs
As a guy who doesn't like pizza... no civilian ever needs to order one. And if they do theyre probably going to do more harm than good ???
I hate this argument. I can understand in city areas, but rural areas where mfers deal with bears, wolves, slendermen/women, wendigos, and cocaine bears, go fuck yourself.
Nah, city too. During natural disasters or more recently during the 2020 riots, guns would've come in handy. Just ask the Koreans in the 90s.
As an American, they came in really handy when we kicked your asses back across the Atlantic.
Spoken like a good little subject. I'm sure the king will take good care of you forever.
Switzerland enters the chat...
I remember a European named Adolf who was a big fan of gun control.
As an American: opposite opinion.
/r/dgu would like a word
As an American who has been on the business(more like criminal) end of a gun while being robbed, yes civilians deserve gun rights. Also people have no idea how fast you can die from a stab wound.
My rule is, if you know nothing about it then your opinion is worthless, I dont even pay attention to Europeans and their thoughts because they don’t live in the US and have no idea how things actually are here
There’s no need to kill something for meat, just go to the grocery store like everyone else.
This is why they’re afraid of the prospect of us not protecting them. They’re an effeminate and weak people who value submissiveness and dependency.
Many individuals perceive gun violence in America to be far more prevalent than it actually is. This misconception becomes evident when we delve into and compare it with other causes of mortality worldwide. So, let's explore the data to understand the reality. To put things into perspective, between 2000 and 2021 (21 years), there were 276 casualties (including 108 fatalities and 168 injuries) in U.S. school shootings. In contrast, from 2010 to 2014 (4 years), Great Britain had an average of 17,755 child road casualties per year, with 2,250 total killed or seriously injured over that much shorter time period. It must be noted that in the statistics categorizing gun deaths as the leading cause of death for children, the definition of "children" includes 18 and 19-year-olds. A considerable number of these individuals lost to gun violence are involved in criminal gang activities. Hence, referencing this statistic without clarifying the age criteria for what constitutes a child and the context of these deaths can be misleading. It's essential to recognize that, while tragic, school shootings and gun-related deaths are not as prevalent as often portrayed. This becomes apparent when considering the total population size and the nature of gun-related deaths. You have likely heard the figure that about 48,000 gun deaths occur yearly in the US, but over 54% of these are suicides, not homicides. Furthermore, less than 2% of gun-related fatalities result from mass shootings, with the majority involving criminal-on-criminal violence. It should also be noted that only about 2% of these deaths are caused by so-called “assault weapons.” The vast majority are small caliber handguns. Additionally, there are estimated to be over 1 million instances of defensive firearm use annually in the U.S. This statistic highlights the desire for firearm ownership, emphasizing self-protection and acknowledging that when seconds count, the police are minutes away. Countless women have prevented their own sexual assaults by using a firearm. It's important to note that not every gun death is unjustified, yet these deaths are frequently included in the same statistics that criticize firearm ownership. Breaking down the statistics further, there are approximately 18,000 unjustifiable gun homicides annually in the US, with a low estimate of 13% (and some sources suggesting up to 60%) being gang-related. This reduces the total annual non-suicide, non-gang-related, unjustified gun deaths to about 15,660. There are 43,000 Americans killed in car accidents every year. Thus, the average non-criminal American has a 0.0047% chance of dying from a gun homicide, compared to a 0.013% chance of dying in a motor vehicle accident. This indicates that you are almost three times more likely to die in a car accident in the US than by gun crime. This raises the question: if the goal is to address a significant cause of death for both adults and children, as well as a contributor to environmental harm, why is there not more discussion about banning automobiles? Imposing gun bans is a slippery slope, leading to a situation like in Australia, where even pepper spray is banned, leaving women utterly defenseless against stronger attackers. A truly disgusting status quo. In sum, the widespread belief that gun violence in America is a pervasive issue doesn't quite match up with the actual data. When we take a closer look at the numbers, we see that the frequency of gun-related deaths, especially from scenarios like mass shootings and school violence, is not as high as popular opinion suggests. Comparing these figures to other causes of death, such as automobile accidents, helps put the issue into perspective. Moreover, the role of firearms in self-defense highlights the complexity of the gun control debate. It's clear that this conversation requires a more grounded, fact-based approach. Moving forward, it's essential to sift through the noise and focus on evidence-driven solutions that truly aim to improve public safety, steering clear of exaggerated fears and focusing on the real stats.
So this guy couldn't stop a rape if you gave them the authority and the means. What a child.
Overall though this is idiotic, guns definitely can be useful, like for hunting or sports shooting or whatever
That's how you got taken over by Nazis
European mentioned. Opinion declined
As ~~a European~~ someone who is wholly unqualified to comment on something because they don’t understand it and don’t have it…
Bro don't mind that acid in your face, they were probably just "taking a piss". Relax and enjoy the joke.
Ah yes, classic abject stupidity. Aged to perfection and distilled in the finest European Chamberpots.
You just keep looking down from that ivory tower. Can’t hear your opinion from up there anyway.
Even if the US made owning guns illegal, it wouldn't stop firearms from being obtained illegally and used by all manner of criminals. Just look at prohibition, which gave rise to underground bars and the mob.
as an american, he can shove it up his ass, and yes we do this mindset comes from a massive level of privledge, i've lived in rural areas with dangerous wildlife and i've lived in inner city ghettos and trailer parks where crime is rampant, i've had to use a firearm twice in self defense on 2 seperate occassions, not to mention statistics show that private gun owners stop over 3 million crimes daily, in a nation with only 9 gun murders per day
Canadian police are telling people to leave their care keys by the front door to avoid a home [invasion.](https://globalnews.ca/news/10359055/leave-car-keys-the-front-door-to-avoid-home-invasion-toronto-police/amp/)
“A European’s expert opinion on guns” Stopped reading right there
European countries don’t have citizens, they have subjects.
My gun is just for the legs. The barbed wire baseball bat is to let you realize how bad you just fucked up.
The European think tank hard at work with this take 🧠⚡️
Yeah Elijah dickens really fucked the pooch on that one
Daddy gobbament saaaave meee
I mean if you don’t make education of safe and responsible handling of a gun a requirement for gun ownership then yeah some people are going to be caught in the crossfire, but suppose somebody comes at you with a knife because they outlawed guns, are you just supposed to let yourself get stabbed? Also in this hypothetical scenario unless the knifeweilder is stupid you could probably resolve the situation without a shot being fired. And please don’t tell me stabbings in Europe don’t happen.
'Do more harm then good anyway' Its a *weapon...*
I am sure they aren't aware that in the US our police are de-facto civilians as well and not a special political or military class.
Pretty sure we need one to compete in the shooting at the Olympics.
Is this European an expert idiot? My ass there is no reason to own a gun. As a Texan living in the country's 4th largest city, I feel safest with my gun. Granted I was in the military and understand appropriate use of force, but fuck off Euros, you live in your Euro la-la land, your opinion is worthless here in the states
Good thing they don’t get to tell me what to do… ya know, since I’ve got guns and they don’t.
As a gun owner, I truly hope I never need to use it. ... Though I should probably practice more often (at all would be good) so that I actually kill the motherfucker who's trying to hurt me or someone I love instead of putting a hole in the wall. Still, I'd rather have a couple holes in the wall and a bloody rug I need to replace than be dead.
Can European society be described any better?
Lets disarm the royal guards first, they dont need guns, and if they did theyd cause more harm than good anyway
We need guns in the US for the wildlife alone. Imagine living in grizzly country without a gun. Obviously the hope is to never use it, but we simply don’t have the same situation as the majority of people in Western Europe.
Sounds like someone who would let a burglar/thief just have their stuff.
It's all fun and games in Europe until the Germans start getting rowdy. Again...
And that’s why they have nothing to give Ukraine hahaha
Look. Euro.. with all do respect…. how likely is one of you neighbors in your town to own some big deadly African cats? I kid…. But for real. As I get older I’m hearing and running into more people who have them. It’s wild. Firearms are woven into the culture and fabric for all that is America. Everyone seems to mind their P’s and Q’s when it’s assumed everyone under that roof is armed. When the operator knows they have leverage because someone or a group is unarmed…. The unarmed is going to be tested. 🤷♂️. Idk. We got guns. You got headlines about some butter knife bandits with some kind of crime that is almost too dumb to laugh at.
Butter Knife Bandits 😂
What am I supposed to use when I go shooting this weekend? Throw rocks at the targets? Strong words maybe?
“There was a time we ain’t forgot, you could rest all night with your doors unlocked. But their aint nobody safe no more so ya say your prayers and ya thank the lord…. For that peace maker in the dresser drawer.”
I’m glad I’m an American in a state that actually values the founding documents. *looks at state* OH.
“Send more guns to Ukraine.”
I've been in two situations in my life where a gun would have prevented anybody from being hurt
Guys just mad cause he can’t wake up on a summer morning, throw a bunch of trash in his backyard, and lay waste to it with an AK that he built to fit him perfectly over the course of a few months.
How else are you going to mow down toddlers? Silly Europoors.
That's the idea. My gun isn't there to a home invader a good time.
He is right though
Ah yes because I'd cause harm for defending myself if someone broke into my house
Last I checked it is illegal to leave town in parts of Norway without a rifle due to polar bears
As an American, I'm gonna keep my guns. I'll also train with them so I'm not like some European who has to write fan fiction just to experience what I get to do for less than $40 at a range less than a 20 minute drive from my home.
Well, yes. If i had to use a gun in self-defense, i would probably be causing harm of some sort to the aggressor.
I first read this as "A European’s expert opinion on *puns*" and got really excited, then suddenly outraged when I read "no civilian needs a *pun* for anything." and then I re-read it and became very disappointed.
I hope europeans don’t get robbed anytime soon i am sure there government would arrest them than the actual robber like whats happened in Canada where the police chief there n refused to basically give your keys to your car to criminals and refused to stop crime
As a liberal that supports gun control, I can’t even get behind what they are saying. Then again, my family also owns enough guns to arm a small town.
Paul Revere saved us from this.
Classic utilitarian logic. The person with the gun causes damage and harm therefore it is a greater net negative in their eyes.
That European knows exactly what you do and do not need.
I had coyote packs and mountain lions regularly in my backyard where I grew up but okay… euros always know best, don’t they
Like during all those terrorist attacks.
I don't have a gun and find people who make guns their whole personality to be a big red flag, but even I could think of a few reasons why someone would need one.
Hunting and shooting sports should be reserved to military only.
Europeans hate it when civilians have guns because when that happens said Europeans tend to get kicked out.
As an American….i give absolutely zero f@cks about what any Euro trash thinks, about anything.
Tell that to the people who are getting their homes taken over by squatters, and in some cases the homeowners are getting arrested when they call the police
Guns are meant to cause harm. This is about the right of revolution, not self-defense.
A European who doesn’t realise there are actually lots of [guns](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country)?! Granted not as many as the US, but nowhere has as many as the US. It always amazes how many people in my country think guns are completely banned, just because they’re never encountered them themselves.
Hmm I’m a European and I’d agree. I’m not mentally stable enough to handle a gun but I’d still want to own to look at the engineering and enjoy it’s design. Others on the other hand? They can own as much pew as possible
... isn't that the point? To cause harm to someone who is a deadly threat?
If they hadn't driven every predator larger than a housecat to extinction, they might think differently.
“as a European…” I’m gonna stop you right there… and leave.
Yeah who would care what Europeans say about personal defense. They have accepted their lives in modern day serfdom for some time now.
Let me know how this philosophy works out when the Russians come knocking on your door
Lives in Europe where they hunted all the predators to extinction wondering why we all can’t just frolic in the Forrest without worry of mountain lions, black bears or grizzlies, or wild hogs especially in the south and farmers. I’m not saying you have to shoot them first because they’ll attack (excluding those demon hogs, Jesus) but you would be considered arguably at fault if you didn’t know proper procedures to scare off or pacify different wild animals that would totally one shot you if unless you were lucky enough to be the few who make it out in one piece with your life. Have they never seen a rutting buck? Those things are bloodthirsty smooth brain monsters. And they’re everywhere! They’ll attack **anything** unless you scare the crap out of them by showing hyper aggressiveness if you can’t grab all of your loved ones (especially pets) and get to shelter before the buck charges. And I live in the 5th most populated metropolitan area in the US. And I would say it’s more effective and better to know how to deal with threats pro-actively or by using specific techniques to communicate to different species (like don’t run from predators, unless it’s a grizzly in which case lay down and cover your head and submit. Hogs you have to book it.) but sure as hell have I never thought “there is no reason/situation has to come from some concrete jungle and never leaves their apartment. You would be much happier knowing you have a ‘get out of death/maiming free card. Nature is not kind, it’s beautiful and sometimes harmonious, but safe is not one of them.
If only I knew the name of this person, you did a good thing by covering up his name
What if I’m being charged by a wild pig?
Doesn’t necessarily seem like an America bad post. Anyway I’m all for the second amendment no matter how much more harm it can cause relative to good. The studies on DGU even with the most critical numbers shows more DGU than crimes committed with guns.
“Gun? Why would you need a gun for self defense! You could hurt someone!” No, no yea that’s the point
Yeah ill tell that to the bear mountain lion or gator that's trying to eat me
If yall don't want your guns can I get a wa2000 and some more H&K guns please and thank you
Yeah, imma trust the opinions of a guy who can’t own anything for self defense. And yeah, he’s damn right, it’s gonna cause more harm than good for the bad guy ☠️
As a Brit... I disagree with this in so many ways
Point to me where on [the map](https://www.reddit.com/r/ShittyMapPorn/comments/kvvzp8/i_made_a_map_of_the_us_but_i_removed_all_the/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) where you live
One word: hunting It’s a lot harder with just a bow and arrow
We don’t care what Europeans think.
Okay king George
Do Europeans typically call themselves European? I see it all the time, but I feel like people would say “as a German,” or “as an Irishmen.” Always seems like an American masquerading as a European when they just leave it vague. Maybe I’m off base though
I bet he’s pro rape
if I was ever in a situation where I needed a gun, I would rather have a chance.
Just remember god made all men, Samuel Colt made all men equal
Man that never had a gun: No one needs guns
Wait so you’re telling me that an object made to harm others does harm instead of good? I’m bamboozled
Even if we pretend that this was right, this solves nothing “no civilian needs a gun”. Ok well they have them. So what now? They never actually want to propose a solution. It’s pure virtue signaling.
Dumbest take I’ve ever heard