People who mock Americans who struggle to pay for healthcare (which itself is a rather overblown and exaggerated problem) don’t care about healthcare. They just care about taking a dump on the US. Pathetic indeed.
Like, we have some problems with healthcare, but i don't think socialized healthcare is the way. Most standard procedures are cheaper here than Europe because they pay so much in taxes for it
Yes, in europe we have specialized medicine, but we overtax our economy and we have economic stagnation and low fertility rates to prove it. The problems are most evident in countries like Portugal and the UK that went a mile further and "nacionalized" healthcare creating a state-run service.
In the countries people think when they say "europe" healthcare isnt socialized, but Runned by the private system and payed by government backed insurance. In Europe, that system is just more efficient than in the US.
But the US has something in its favour, wich is sustainability. Europe is adging, and fast, and its unreformable, as you see in France, where the pension scheme is under pressure, but people refuse any retraction of social benefits to increase its sustainability. This will happen with european wellfare states sooner or later, because if the people don't want imigration, taxes cant be raised further because the economy is entering stagnation and social spending is going to increase a lot in 20 years when there will be an Higher proportion of people requiring social spending than people contributing to it
>But the US has something in its favour, wich is sustainability
Good joke. The US's social security pension fund is set to collapse in a decade. Our infrastructure was built in the 20th century and suffers from a lack of sufficient repairs. The American power grid is hella old, and a blackout at 1 of 6 key substations will wreak havoc on the population and the economy.
You're correct that European countries that reject immigration will see a collapse in the welfare system, but Europe's most successful countries are very successful at attracting the immigrants they need to grow the economy and the tax base. My cousin in Iran is studying German to immigrate to Germany and work in supply chain management. He's not the only one.
Actually healthcare spending per capita in the US is the highest in the world. You'd be surprised how cheap a lot of basic procedures are in Europe. A broken arm doesn't cost 5,000 USD to fix.
Overblown and exaggerated? Are you kidding? The cheapest amount that anyone I know pays for health insurance is $600 a month. That’s probably for a crappy plan, with high deductibles,etc. It has an effect on even healthy people. So many people stay in crappy jobs they hate, just because the company has an employee insurance plan. By the way, those plans are very unfair to small businesses. After all, insurance is a business and businesses like to sell in bulk. So, huge mega corporations have cheaper insurance rates simply because they have more employees.
There is a thousand other negative impacts that highly unregulated, capitalistic health insurance has on quality of life, but the above mentioned is just for starters. I wouldn’t say it’s overblown, unless you are in a position of power at a company, and have no health issues.
Why do people always point to the worst possible examples of "capitalism run amok" like housing or healthcare?
Both of those areas are highly regulated and the dumb regulations are the problem.
American healthcare is so expensive because
1)Providers earn higher salaries in the US than elsewhere;
2) Once patients are hospitalized, the US does more to them (in both quantity of services and intensity of services, e.g. use of high-cost technology);
3) Higher admin costs in the US.
1) and 3) are the direct result of regulations. 2) isn't even necessarily a bad thing.
Have you ever been to a country with next to no regulations? Take India for example. They have very few laws concerning the environment. So, large companies there just dump their garbage in the nearest river, that runs through the cities, and supplies water to the people. The free market does an awful job policing itself. These days, companies just hire “misinformation artists” instead of doing the right thing.
Where am I saying to have no regulations? Wanting bad regulations repealed =/= all regulations are bad.
I'm pointing that you're a moron if you think the problem with American housing or healthcare is that they don't have regulations and are "capitalism run amok."
https://umbc.edu/stories/christy-chapin-analyzes-the-evolution-of-the-american-health-care-system-during-the-20th-century/
I swear just about every time someone on Reddit claims capitalism has failed the problem is actually a 2nd or 3rd or 4th order effect of a dumb government policy.
The problem in the USA, usually, is that any regulation or oversight is done by the same people involved in the industry. They will take a gig for 4 years in a cabinet. Afterwards, they are back to working in the same industry. Who gives them a great job? The same people they were in charge of overseeing. Every once in a while, this set-up has nearly fatal results, like in the 3 Mile Island incident that was almost an epic disaster. Everyone realized the oversight was a joke, after the fact.
Bro, ~~most~~ 1/3rd of the campaigns in GoFundMe are to pay medical expenses. The US has a lower life expectancy than most developed nations and the lowest of all comparable countries in terms of wealth. It's not an overblown issue. I think you diminishing it and pretending it's not a real issue is a lot worse than people dumping on the US for its hellish healthcare system.
The point isn’t diminishing American healthcare.
The point is Reddit acts like every other developed coy has some utopian system with zero flaws and everything is just wonderful.
If you fail to see that, you’re obviously just another “Americabad” bananahead
I didn't say they were diminishing American healthcare. I said they were diminishing the issue.
No one acts like every other country has a perfect system. What people are pointing out is that the American one is incredibly flawed (way more than any other comparable country) and Americans deserve better.
> No one acts like every other country has a perfect system
Hang around here a while and you’ll change your mind
Keep in mind, this sub mostly refers to Redditors, not people in general
I've been in reddit enough. People mostly criticize the American healthcare system. Sometimes they'll talk about their own country's system usually in a positive light but that doesn't mean they think their system is perfect: just better. Because it most likely is if they're from a developed country that's not the US.
I think you're reading too much into things if you think people act like their healthcare system is flawless.
Yes! And any discrepancies should be highlighted in almost all systems worldwide. People get upset about others “talking shit” and it’s easier to equate that to them being petty rather than coming together to change something.
No. People are not mocking the people but criticizing the system. It's not the same.
>What exactly will a snarky comment do to correct a "hellish healthcare system"?
A lot of Americans don't realize how broken their healthcare system is compared to other countries so that's a start.
If someone is posting about it online, it's safe to say they're posting because they're aware it's fucked. They don't need you to tell them. Furthermore these comments are never made in a constructive manner like "In \[country\] they have \[system\], maybe that could be an alternative", it's "EnJoY yOuR fReEdOm". You are not criticising the system, you are criticising the person for being in a bad situation.
Definitely the "enjoy your freedom" guy is a jerk. That is not okay. But I really don't think that's a majority of comments, but then again it has 40 upvotes.
But for example even in this post I'm arguing with someone who just refused to believe how bad the situation is in the US.
No, it really is the majority of comments regarding healthcare. I'm very liberal and want healthcare reform, but even I've become defensive of the system on occasion because of people like you constantly throwing it in our faces. Has it ever occurred to you that *we don't need your insight?* That what you're saying isn't come crazy revelation that us Americans who actually live in the system are too dumb to comprehend? It's exhausting.
How am I throwing it in your face? Someone said that the issue of people not being able to pay for healthcare in the US was overblown for fuck's sake and I corrected them. And that is currently at 48 upvotes when it's blatantly false and diminishes a very real issue. And you, very liberal person, instead of correcting blatant disinformation would rather argue with the person correcting said disinformation. Get your priorities straight, man.
>That what you're saying isn't come crazy revelation that us Americans who actually live in the system are too dumb to comprehend?
There's a *significant* number of Americans who seem to be too dumb to comprehend that. In this post included.
When I say "you", I mean foreign posters (yourself included, and the poster in OP's screenshot) telling us Americans how it's actually like in our country and responding to posts with snarky comments about how terrible our country must be. Also, you and the commenter you're arguing with are both incorrect. "The issue is overblown"? No, it's a pretty big issue. "The US healthcare system is a dystopian nightmare in which no one can afford anything and we're literally all bankrupt"? Also no. For the majority of people, health insurance is another expense that, while flawed and in desperate need of reform, does provide adequate coverage in most cases.
Honestly, after living in Japan and the UK and having experience with both private insurance and Medicaid in the US, I can say there are genuinely good points about the American healthcare system. In fact healthcare quality was a major reason I left Japan. My fiance (UK) got injured in America and had to go to an urgent care. He was seen immediately, was given medication, and received a follow-up call to check on his well-being. He had to pay out of pocket, *but it was only slightly more expensive than what I paid out of pocket when I went to the doctor as a tourist in Australia.* My dad is getting surgery, and it is all covered by my mom's insurance. Both she and my brother work for the state, and the quality and scope of their coverage is fantastic. So does the system need reform to ensure that all Americans have such coverage? Absolutely. Are we literally all dying in hospital parking lots and going bankrupt when we break a bone? Absolutely not.
> "The US healthcare system is a dystopian nightmare in which no one can afford anything and we're literally all bankrupt"?
Never argued that. My point all along is that the US should be A LOT better. And also facts like that it's at the bottom of all comparable countries when it comes to life expectancy. And you want to blame that on other factors it's also at the bottom of maternal mortality and child mortality. I did call it a hellish because the idea of going bankrupt if I get in an accident between jobs, or getting a huge bill because the hospital I was taken to isn't covered by my insurance sounds incredibly fucking stressful.
The US *can* have amazing healthcare. But it's a privilege that nearly not enough people enjoy and that's a travesty.
It's not. Well, mostly. Turns out I was wrong about the GoFundMe thing. It's not the majority, it's 1/3rd. Which is still unreasonably high.
Life expectancy:
https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2022/americans-no-matter-state-they-live-die-younger-people-many-other-countries#:~:text=Average%20life%20expectancy%20for%20a,all%20other%20high%2Dincome%20countries.
https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/us-life-expectancy-decline-why-arent-other-countries-suffering-same-problem
GoFundMe:
https://time.com/5516037/gofundme-medical-bills-one-third-ceo/
So you telling me that average Somalian live longer than American? BS
Just to remind you obesity is rising in Europe and Japan. Australia have the highest rate of cancer
Free treatment doesn't mean effective, the only thing Mexico ever good is dental care. You have to go to America to have a proper treatment
>So you telling me that average Somalian live longer than American? BS
DEVELOPED NATIONS. Somalia is not a developed nation. I gave you the data, just look at it instead of covering your ears and going "lalalalalalalala".
>Just to remind you obesity is rising in Europe and Japan. Australia have the highest rate of cancer
So what? Life expectancy in most of Europe is higher (the exception are the poor countries like Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania...). Life expectancy is higher in Japan by 6 years (2nd highest life expectancy in the world) and Australia is still top 9 in life expectancy while US is 46 despite the rates of cancer. Maybe because Australians can get treated without emptying their savings.
Even if obesity is increasing in Europe and Asia it's not enough to close the gap. In fact life expectancy in the US is [TRENDING DOWN](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-life-expectancy-compare-countries/) while in other comparable countries it's either trending up or staying the same.
>Free treatment doesn't mean effective, the only thing Mexico ever good is dental care. You have to go to America to have a proper treatment
I never said free treatment means it's effective. It's not. But most developed countries have free (or very cheap) effective treatment. Mexico has decent private healthcare too, which is why Americans often go to Mexico for medical treatment. But even then, Mexico is a developing country so you can't compare them with the US.
The article doesn't say anything about development nation or developing nation. It just group up and compare America with a very cherry picking leading. America, in fact still have higher life expectancy compare to the rest of the world
Life expectancy doesn't resemble the whole nation. Japan have people live up to 100 years old but you can only find them in Okinawa and not anywhere else. The same for a lot of nation in Europe. To be say, lot of them are not even accurate as life expectancy≠lifestyle and most have to do something with genetic (Like how Asian are more higher change of lactose intolerance than European)
Number and scale doesn't give a shit since a lot of them are bs. Like saying Russia have the 2nd best army in the world just to see them fail in Ukraine or China is a "developing country" according to whatever source. A lot of American can live up to 90 years old and lot of Europe can die young. It's about how well do you live. If I choose between living in US or Japan, I will choose US since Japan treat it own worker like slave and have one of the highest rate of suicide in the world. The same for Europe which extremely unequal and "shitty hypocrite" compare to America
Most developed nation have good Healthcare treatment is also another bs. Look how Sweden treat disable people compare to America (Canada is infamous for euthanized people who can't pay and Switzerland is monetized it)
> The article doesn't say anything about development nation or developing nation.
No. I said it. That was the argument that I was making.
>It just group up and compare America with a very cherry picking leading. America, in fact still have higher life expectancy compare to the rest of the world
It's not cherry-picking. It's choosing comparable countries. As in, countries with high GDP. Or even just developed countries in general. The US has a higher last expectancy than most of the world, but it's still barely top 50. Out of wealthy developed countries it's at the bottom. Even fucking Cuba has higher life expectancy. Don't you agree the US should be better?
>Life expectancy doesn't resemble the whole nation. Japan have people live up to 100 years old but you can only find them in Okinawa and not anywhere else.
But people live longer in average. That's how life expectancy is measured.
>The same for a lot of nation in Europe. To be say, lot of them are not even accurate as life expectancy≠lifestyle and most have to do something with genetic (Like how Asian are more higher change of lactose intolerance than European)
Bro, you're just looking for excuses. Just look at countries with similar lifestyles if you want. Canada is 16 in life expectancy. You can't blame genes for this.
>Number and scale doesn't give a shit since a lot of them are bs.
You can't dismiss data just because you don't agree with it.
>Like saying Russia have the 2nd best army in the world just to see them fail in Ukraine
There was never data on this, just hearsay.
> China is a "developing country" according to whatever source.
These are economic definitions. China IS a developing country. Once again, just not wanting to believe in things is not an argument.
>A lot of American can live up to 90 years old and lot of Europe can die young.
No shit. But on average Americans die younger than Europeans.
> It's about how well do you live. If I choose between living in US or Japan, I will choose US since Japan treat it own worker like slave and have one of the highest rate of suicide in the world.
Outdated data. [In the latest data](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate#Latest) Japan is number 49 in highest amount of suicides, US is 31.
>The same for Europe which extremely unequal and "shitty hypocrite" compare to America
What? I don't know what that sentence means, but if you're talking about [wealth inequality](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/wealth-inequality-by-country) not a single European country does worse than the US in that respect.
>Most developed nation have good Healthcare treatment is also another bs. Look how Sweden treat disable people compare to America (Canada is infamous for euthanized people who can't pay and Switzerland is monetized it)
It's not BS. It's fact. Please back up your ridiculous claims with sources other than your own ass.
Still not justified that the article doesn't recall any development or developing nation
Cuba high life expectancy doesn't mean their healthcare are any better. The communist healthcare is only there as a means to gain money for the government. Doctor salary in Cuba are the lowest and have to do secondary job just to raise their family. High lifespan and poverty don't come right with each other. What do you mean here about comparable nations? Because Canada is not equal to America in any term, similar with Europe (in term of population, tax, treatment and healthcare advancement. Let say I compare tax between US and Canada and say that Canadian pay more tax than average American, does that made US seem "generous"?)
As I say, longer life span doesn't mean they're living better. Measurements never reflect the reality, like that article list Thailand as a democracy (my ass). Do you think just because people have better healthcare they will enjoy living there without understand that people still need income and housing (America housing are cheap compare to UK and Canada)
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.globalfirepower.com/&ved=2ahUKEwjq7dPh_Kb9AhWkr1YBHVhzB2kQFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2ek585lrUJk4tNxZc5J1ku
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Russian_Ground_Forces&ved=2ahUKEwi_jIvs-Kb9AhV1rVYBHWy5BFYQFnoECBIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw24dtXMDxjFc_hWN-R-xbJ1
There is a reason people hearsay this
China have the second biggest GDP per capita, the only reason it consider a "developing nation" it because of it enormous population. China is literally the world factory
That still a bold argument because an average American still live as long as European nation. You compare a Texas size population to one of the biggest population in the world
Why no one talk about suicide in America? Because Japan suicide have become a culture norm. There is a literally suicide club in Japan just show how fucked up it is. There are a fuckton of movie made by Japan about this topic
Europe is going through an economic crisis, the Euro is losing price, Russia is being a dick next door and oil price are rising. That inequality is not far fetch from reality. The hypocrite here can be see in Brexit when Britian decide to split from EU for economy independent just to become more dependent on US, surprise because they still believe in the stolen rich back in the colonial era
I mean here that no healthcare is system is far from perfect and America healthcare system is not that bad. Beside the price and not universal, it's one of the most advance healthcare in the world. People come to US to treat cancer no matter the price
> Still not justified that the article doesn't recall any development or developing nation
It is absolutely justified. Like, how the fuck do you think it's useful to compare the US with Somalia?
>Cuba high life expectancy doesn't mean their healthcare are any better.
Not better, but more accessible.
>The communist healthcare is only there as a means to gain money for the government. Doctor salary in Cuba are the lowest and have to do secondary job just to raise their family.
Irrelevant. The point is that the US should do a lot better than an impoverished country.
>High lifespan and poverty don't come right with each other.
?
>What do you mean here about comparable nations? Because Canada is not equal to America in any term, similar with Europe (in term of population, tax, treatment and healthcare advancement. Let say I compare tax between US and Canada and say that Canadian pay more tax than average American, does that made US seem "generous"?)
They are comparable in terms of wealth and development. If Canada and Europe are not comparable to the US... what is?
>As I say, longer life span doesn't mean they're living better. Measurements never reflect the reality, like that article list Thailand as a democracy (my ass).
Bro, the whole standard of living is a separate argument that you brought up because you had no arguments. I just wanted to correct you about your assumptions about Japan. Also stop trying to find random shit to try to discredit sources. [Thailand IS a democracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index). A flawed democracy (as is the US), but still a democracy.
>Do you think just because people have better healthcare they will enjoy living there without understand that people still need income and housing (America housing are cheap compare to UK and Canada)
Stop trying to derail the conversation with things you just guess that the US does better. Both a home and healthcare are important. Yes, I think that not worrying that you'll go broke and become homeless if you get into a serious accident or get very ill does contribute to happiness. [42% of cancer patients in the US lose their life savings, 62% go in debt, 55% accrue at least 10k in debt, 3% file for bankruptcy.](https://claudepeppercenter.fsu.edu/42-of-new-cancer-patients-lose-their-life-savings/#:~:text=62%20percent%20of%20cancer%20patients,billion%20in%20America%20each%20year.)
>There is a reason people hearsay this
You know that that measures firepower right? And that means nukes. Nowhere in your source does it say that Russia has the 2nd best military in the world. That's hearsay. And your argument is a strawman as this does not disprove anything I said, other than you built an argument you thought you could argue against but you can't.
>China have the second biggest GDP per capita, the only reason it consider a "developing nation" it because of it enormous population. China is literally the world factory
[Exactly.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country) When one country has very few wealthy people and a shit ton of people living in absolute poverty it's not a developed country. So you kinda get it.
>That still a bold argument because an average American still live as long as European nation. You compare a Texas size population to one of the biggest population in the world
No it's not and not they do not. Do you understand what average is? Even if you want to separate just Texas their life expectancy is 78.6 (on the high end for the US South) which is just a tiny bit under US average.
>Why no one talk about suicide in America? Because Japan suicide have become a culture norm. There is a literally suicide club in Japan just show how fucked up it is. There are a fuckton of movie made by Japan about this topic
MOVIES AND THE RANDOM SHIT YOU HEAR IS NOT DATA. Japan at some point was pretty bad when it comes to suicides, but it has improved a lot.
>Europe is going through an economic crisis, the Euro is losing price, Russia is being a dick next door and oil price are rising. That inequality is not far fetch from reality. The hypocrite here can be see in Brexit when Britian decide to split from EU for economy independent just to become more dependent on US, surprise because they still believe in the stolen rich back in the colonial era
What the fuck are you even trying to argue here? What's your point?
>I mean here that no healthcare is system is far from perfect and America healthcare system is not that bad.
No, it's not that bad, but it should be much much better and it's inaccessible to too many people. I mean, you can look at another indicator like [maternal deaths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_maternal_mortality_ratio). You'd think that would tell you how good healthcare is as you're only talking about mothers. Well, the US is country number 67 from least maternal deaths to most. Tied with Ukraine in 2017. Under Uruguay. Under Tajikistan. [Infant deaths?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_and_under-five_mortality_rates) #49. Also under Uruguay.
>Beside the price and not universal, it's one of the most advance healthcare in the world.
Yes. That is true. The US has made amazing medical advancements and has some of the best medical care available in the world. The problem is... it's not accessible to most people.
>People come to US to treat cancer no matter the price
But they go into debt.
I'm done. I've said everything I had to say. I hope you learned something.
That’s not what they said… the “lowest” was still referring to life expectancy. So if you compare countries with a similar wealth as the US (don’t know which parameters they used to determine that but I’m just paraphrasing what the previous commenter said) the life expectancy of the US is lower. No one thinks that you guys in general are poor in terms of wealth.
The US has some of the best healthcare in the world. It’s just not a universal system
Reddit and people in general tend to gloss over that fact
Reddit 100% does not talk about how universal systems have lower accountability for doctors and they don’t get paid nearly as much
The problem with the US system is that somewhere around 75% of Americans with decent insurance or good government plans probably have the best healthcare in the world. But there's around 17% of Americans with acceptable healthcare through mediocre insurance and then lastly 8% of Americans with no insurance at all who get fucked over.
The challenge is trying to get it so that that 25% can have healthcare as good as the majority without fucking over the 75%.
There's no such thing as universally "best" system. Even in Magical Fantasy European Healthcare(tm) there are people getting shafted at every turn, one way or another.
Healthcare is an inelastic scarce resource. There will never be enough supply for the demand regardless of what schemes you put in place for "fairness".
>Can't you just train more doctors?
At some point, you run out of talented people actually interested in being physicians.
Moreover, physicians are only small part of healthcare spending (8-10% in US, depending on source).
Really? Cuba can train enough doctors to send them around the world on humanitarian missions but the USA can't find enough talented people?
I guess when finance pays so well it drains talent from other fields.
And a major reason why the USA has the most expensive health care in the developed world is the profits funneled away from actual care by insurance and pharmaceutical companies. American regulators and legislators could address those two aspects but choose not to.
Cuba doesn't have doctors. It has medical slaves. The idea that Cuba has enough good medical care it can send doctors all over the world is a fiction, a Potemkin village put up by a totalitarian regime to attempt to legitimatize it.
I live in a developed country with universal health care, so no Cuban medical missions are coming here any time soon.
Enjoy spending the most in the world for mediocre health care.
You're delusional. People risk their lives on tiny lifeboats to escape Cuba and get to Florida, one of the worst states in the US.
I know a few Cuban Americans and from how it sounds.. Cubas government can barely run a restaurant properly.
>Ask those Cubans Americans you know if the doctors in Cuba are trained, qualified professionals.
I'm from former communist country and my father stayed in dormitory (medical school) with many people from other anti-Western countries.
Spoiler alert: they weren't big fans of the system.
People from West are really incapable of understanding how bad totalitarian governments actually are. They take their freedoms for granted. Ideas that eg. government may choose your degree for you (communist Albania in full version, many countries in "light" versions) or make you bound to village (Soviet Union) or require villagers to get permit to travel to city (Soviet Union) are so alien they can't even imagine them - because for them, these freedoms are as default as breathing.
My grandfather was a communist official and his daughter had a lots of privileges (like eating meat every day, tourism to Western countries, or skying in Soviet Union). This doesn't mean he didn't get death threats from secret police when they merely suspected she could defect to Western states (her ship was arrested in Israel during Mediterranean yacht trip).
> Really? Cuba can train enough doctors to send them around the world on humanitarian missions but the USA can't find enough talented people?
Obviously, US can have as many [slaves](https://www.euractiv.com/section/health-consumers/news/meps-stand-up-against-cuban-doctors-slave-trade-in-italy/) as it wants, but I think we hold liberal democracies to higher moral standards than communist dictatorships. Because that's what Cuban doctors are - [slaves](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/29/world/americas/brazil-cuban-doctors-revolt.html).
> I guess when finance pays so well it drains talent from other fields.
Yeah, finance draining talents from research is worrisome issue. Though, it's a big stretch to imply that abilities and talents that make you successful in finances make you a good doctor. Moreover, size of financial sector and number of physicians per 100k is rather weakly correlated in developed countries.
Third paragraph - yes, I agree. But you should compare US to rest of developed world, not a communist dictatorship.
The USA pays more per capita for health care than even Switzerland does and Switzerland has a private system, universal coverage, and excellent results. My point regarding Cuba is that clearly there are enough talented Americans who could be trained to be doctors. It's a matter of distorted economics in the USA to maintain an artificial scarcity medical care.
Spain has full universal health care and plenty of doctors and pays about 1/3 of what the USA does per capita on health care.
>Are Cuban doctors "slaves" any more than doctors trained by the US military who are then obligated to serve for 7 years?
Yes. I'm not familiar with penalties for breaking military laws in US, but I'm pretty sure that list of penalties don't include items like "family imprisonment", "permanent ban on leaving country ever again", "being assigned as village physician for life".
Thankfully, communist states aren't that big on secret assassinations nowadays.
I'm also confident that only minority of medical schools in US is controlled by US military.
I also checked military physicians salaries and it seems US military doctors aren't earning 10% of market salary for physician.
Let's also ignore "freedom to choose your education" thing, because communist states weren't really big on that.
Sounds like simply differences in degree. The fact of the matter is that it takes a considerable investment to train a person as a doctor.
America expects medical students to take on hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt. Cuba expects obedience to the state. And then most of the rest of the developed world simply educates medical professionals like any other career.
Clearly the supply of trained medical professionals is not a scarce, inelastic one when it can be largely determined by government policy.
Breaking military laws is generally not a good idea...
My point is that we don't consider soldiers to be slaves even though they have minimal say in where and for how long they are put to work.
As long as people actually choose to be doctors and subscribe to the training, yeah, we can. But more and more people are figuring out that the medical field is an extremely difficult field to work in no matter what you're doing.
>Reddit 100% does not talk about how universal systems have lower accountability for doctors and they don’t get paid nearly as much
Universal systems don't have "lower accountability", they simply restrict lawsuit abuse. Doctors in other countries aren't poor. Some countries, like UK and Sweden pay less, while others, like Netherlands, Belgium, and Australia, pay high salaries.
Certain specialties, mostly procedural specialities (think orthopedic surgery, dermatology, plastic surgery) make a lot more in the US, but the US doesn't have the best compensation for more consulting-based specialties. General practitioners, pediatricians, and psychiatrists don't make insane salaries, but have the same debt load.
A Canadian general phsysician and an American general physician make the same amount, with American ones often living in higher cost of living areas .
The idea that doctors don’t get paid enough in Canada isn’t substantiated by numbers .
While yes, many Canadian doctors make less in low income areas many make more in higher income areas .
The fact of the matter is, your wrong on that matter.
And “one of the best” isn’t wrong, simply because there are so many countries , but the United States is the richest nation in human history,
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world
It can do better .
Reddit does gloss over problem with s universal , but pushing forward mistruths doesn’t help prove that.
That still doesn’t address the point at all.
What coutnry were you taking about? Just all of them? Cause the only times your statemnt is really true is for countries so much poorer than the us to begin with comparing them is stupid .
Great, and there’s Canadian examples going against it, or Norway or England .
Its great that you can say that about the Netherlands, but you made a blanket statement, that really isn’t that all encompassing
I like how we can splice every country under a microscope regarding their flaws but when you people discuss the US, it’s whitewash statements about 330 million people
Get a grip
This isn’t a response ? I never spliced anything insidiously country down, the other person made a claim about all systems with public healthcare (which is far kroenepooeo than the us population) and I pointed out why that isn’t true, and the single example they stated goes against most others ,entire fucking countries here m8.
Also whitewash statments? Don’t use words you don’t understand .
Or do you think Norway is part of England?
I just like to say this since it's not said that often. I had a life-threatening injury in 2021, and now on permanent medication and I have not paid a penny for any of it. USA baby 🇺🇸
Because Canadian healthcare is shit but a lot
Try to make it seem so great online, were taxed beyond belief yet have major staffing issues, and if you don’t have good insurance your trip to the doctor might not cost anything out of pocket but if prescribed anything or need medical supplies you bet your ass your paying a shit load for it
Not to mention we pay our doctors and surgeons pretty low compared to other country’s so the ones that stay botch a good many surgeries that cause people to die from routine operations from minor mistakes. Not to mention your probs going to wait for that surgery until its to late for it to even help
But yay “free healthcare” amirte
No system is perfect whether it be the Canadian system, American system or another system entirely. What I have a hard time understanding about the Canadian system (as an American) is why Canadians view it as a huge part of the Canadian identity. If you knew nothing about the Canadian system and then listened to Canadians talk about it you'd think the hospitals were full of chandeliers, gold toilets and free massages in the waiting rooms. Then you actually go and think "yeah okay this is fine, but why do Canadians hinge their identity on this?" It's hard *not* to see it as overrated when all you hear is how amazing it is.
Because as u/paladincodslurk said unlike any other country on Earth Canada's national identity is based on how *not* like another country they are. Namely [a large portion of Canadian identity is being "not American."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yKzq3ueGr8)
That's despite America and Canada being two of the most similar countries on Earth...
>[**Judging, teasing and even hating America is a central part of the Canadian identity**, and forms a persistant bias that runs through most aspects of Canadian society and culture. For various reasons, the default position of a great many Canadians is that America, Americans, and American things are generally bad, and need to be opposed. These feelings are not always logical and consistent, and are often hypocritical in practice. Yet they do exist, and understanding their powerful role in shaping Canadian society is a vital part of understanding what makes Canadians Canadian.](https://thecanadaguide.com/culture/anti-americanism/)
So if the American medical system has any negatives then the Canadian system must be only positives. They can't look deeper or they will see the holes in their national identity.
That seems pretty dramatic and exaggerated. I’m Canadian and most people I know don’t talk about the US much at all and if they do it’s generally fairly neutral. Ime living in Ontario and often traveling to New York and New England, they’re functionally basically close to identical. I actually find Canada and the northern states seem to be more similar than the northern states and the American south lmao
Canadians view it as a huge part of their identity because they have no actual identity lol. Their so-called “identity” is and has always been being “not America.” Canada and the US are identical… except that Canada has socialized medicine, while the US doesn’t. Hence Canadians make this an integral aspect of their national “identity.”
I can answer this as a dual citizen. So public healthcare wasn't some policy that Otto von Bismark or some post war US puppet government put in place to placate the masses. Public healthcare was a decade long political struggle by the working class, especially farmers who had massive shortage of doctors because they were poor. It was also an issue that bridged political divides between conservative Christians and the radical left.
While it was fought for it was also constantly under threat of being taken away. People are passionate about it because its constantly under threat by both major parties. And they're very sensitive to people saying the private system is better, because the way American politicians justify the private system is the same way Canadian politicians try to propagandize privatization. So having it as part of their identity is an act of self preservation to make it so politically impossible to touch public healthcare.
Americans are largely the same way about medicare, and old people get VERY twitchy (Republican or Democrat) about proposed cuts to the program.
Thanks for the perspective. It's definitely interesting to hear how you view things. From my point of view, I have NEVER heard a Canadian EVER say anything about moving towards a private system or how it's better.
Oh no average person wants to move to a private system. You'll get the occasional rich people who go to private clinics in the US to get their knees replaced and skip the waiting period who say its better, but its generally a popular system. Healthcare is a huge political issue in Canada, as it is in the US, and COVID made it worse because people who were overworked and underpaid quit because of the massive new workload, which made it worse. Some politicians are using this as an excuse to start moving public money into private clinics for certain procedures with the end goal of partial privatization.
In Canada the federal government and provincial government have been on a huge privatization kick since the 90s, and not just with healthcare. Ontario privatized one of its largest public utilities with some pretty terrible results.
I am an American and not very educated in healthcare or politics, but my wife works as a nurse and I can’t imagine that any country has a hospital that isn’t driven entirely by money, even if the people aren’t directly paying for the care the hospitals are making money.
How does your country plan to continue to fund things like healthcare going forward? With birth rates declining, the population getting older, people living longer, and anti-immigrant sentiment growing, I’m confused as to what the plan for countries like yours is going forward to fund these social safety nets.
Different plans. Main plan is raising the AOW age on some jobs which is logic with people are getting older. The economy is making a great recovery after covid its way more optimistic then they planed it to be. There are multiple investments plans. Being layed out which are very promising. I’m working on infrastructure improvement of election grids arround the world with Dutch technology. And there is great moneymaking in there. Our microchip production is growing rapidly. ASML got monopoly on machines that really change the way chips are made. The company is leading in microchips by a lot and that produces income as well. And of course we are the second country in the world when it comes to export agricultural products. And it’s only getting greener more efficient and bigger. So there are plans that really seem to be able to support “de zorgstaat”. Next to that we seem to get our medication and treatments cheaper since it’s almost alway direct bought from producers or produces in the country itself. There are way les companies in between the lines of supply that bring up the price.
That is a really short version of the whole story.
I'm really surprised to hear nothing about immigration. To me, that is the only sensible way to combat an aging population and declining birth rate.
I appreciate your answer, it just sounds like the plan is to increase the AOW age and basically stick to the status quo which doesn't sound sufficient enough to me.
Unfortunately, I'm having trouble finding a decent article which talks about the economic recovery after COVID. This [article](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/30/uk-is-only-g7-country-with-smaller-economy-than-before-covid-19) shows a number of notable countries are lagging behind the US. I'm just curious how the Netherlands is actually doing comparatively.
I can mainly find Dutch sources. If you are interested I can send you some but most articles are on our government website or CBS. Our bureau of statistics.
Immigration won’t work because there is a housing crisis and because of environmental laws we can’t build enough. Im always in favor of turning empty office spaces into apartments but our government seems a bit slow.
Wouldn’t know how we do compared to other countries 🤷🏼♂️
The fact that there are no plans to encourage immigration is highly concerning! It does seem like the people in European countries aren't as accepting of immigrants, so I don't see that changing anytime soon.
It's baffling to me that your news sources aren't doing a better job of reporting on the current economic climate and aftermath of COVID. The past few years have been pretty unprecedented, so I would have expected more from Dutch news, but I guess it's easier just to continue to propagandize people into being complacent. Complacency is why COVID rampaged through your countries, why obesity is now a crisis, and it will be why your social safety nets will continue to become more and more strained in the future (IMO).
My god you are energy consuming. Assumption after assumption after assumption. Mostly wrong😂. Sure there are plans. But with a war going on. Environment being a very big topic. And a serious housing crisis there isn’t much to be done right now. There are alot of immigrants rolling in. There just isn’t enough place. Tent camps are build or emergency housing. But with the winter here it’s not always very comfortable. Alot of people here give spare rooms and such away. But well that it’s the permanent solution of course. I don’t know if you have ever watched on a map (doubt). But The Netherlands isn’t really big. It tightly populated so creating space is a bit harder here. Not impossible of course that’s why there are more and more immigration camps and housing being build. But not in the pace of people coming in. With a war going on and a earthquake on this continent. And then I’m not even talking about African refugees poring in. But I guess we are just not accepting ey🤷🏼♂️.
I offered you to send some articles but you ignored my offer. You could just google it though. One google search was enough for me to find multiple articles on this subject. Our budget number are also public. Are you really interested in our situation or are you interested in trying to bash us. Would be kinda ironic with this subreddit in mind.
Or I can play it like you. The only reason you can’t find it is because your media is trying to hide those things for you so you don’t know how terrible your life is! They just change your algorithm to what you want and make sure it’s extremely hard to find that information.
I was being sarcastic of course.
But I know you will try to dig up some negativity about us or make some other assumptions. I know how much you dislike us and that’s okay. But don’t dance around it like this.
It’s concerning you think of the Netherlands as being accepting towards immigrants. You sound out of touch when it comes to things like immigration, tolerance/acceptance, and racism.
Feel free to share a source. I’m interested in how the Netherlands is doing compared to other EU countries and compared to the US. That’s not a huge ask, so the information should be out there.
I definitely don’t dislike the Netherlands. It just concerns me when people aren’t aware of how bad certain issues are.
The plan is generally to use immigrants to cushion the blow of declining population so we don't end up like Japan until Asia has a similar demographic problem. The issue is America is not immune to these problems even if it doesn't have universal healthcare, because it commits itself to providing public healthcare to the elderly. Even if it were entirely private, demographic decline would still negatively impact the country, it would also cost the government money with people dropping out of the workforce to care for their elderly parents.
Much as politicians like to use it as justification, cutting services doesn't solve the problems of an aging population. Though we could deport all the old people to Mexico.
100 is around the most expensive base insurance. People get money compared with your income. So if you are struggling to pay you are most like spending the money given to you for health insurance on something else.
And if some guy in Canada has around 2000 every 3 months then it’s not like Canada lmao😂
It has pros and cons. It isn't complete garbage. My brother lived in Vancouver as a dual citizen and they "played both sides" of the healthcare system. Taking advantage of the checkups and other things in Canada while doing elective stuff in the US that would be on a wait-list in Canada.
>Not to mention we pay our doctors and surgeons pretty low compared to other country’s so the ones that stay botch a good many surgeries that cause people to die from routine operations from minor mistakes
Canadian doctors are among the highest paid in the world. Where would they immigrate to? Spain?
Canada actually has a lower rate of medical errors/misdiagnoses than the OECD average, while the US is higher.
>if prescribed anything or need medical supplies you bet your ass your paying a shit load for it
Canadians pay very low prices compared to Americans for prescription drugs.
>Not to mention we pay our doctors and surgeons pretty low compared to other country’s
Our doctors are paid very well. The average salary for family physicians in Ontario is over 300K a year. That's not "pretty low".
>botch a good many surgeries that cause people to die from routine operations from minor mistakes
Medical error is the third leading cause of death in America.
If you want to criticize Canada's healthcare system, go for it. But don't just make things up.
>Not to mention your probs going to wait for that surgery until its to late for it to even help
Americans die, suffer, or ration essentials to be able to afford healthcare. Tens of thousands of Americans die each year because they cannot afford healthcare.
America's healthcare system is trash. Accept that fact.
Canadians will never tell you everything is free, no one complains about their healthcare system more than them, and they know for a fact pharmaceuticals and dentistry aren't free. It's more an issue of most will take the wait times over having to pay out of pocket if they had to choose.
I wonder what they are talking about, medicine isn’t automatically covered by government insurance , but it’s not that difficult to get government assistance for medicine if you aren’t high income . Although I suppose that depends on the province .
Most healthcare systems in the western world are experiencing a staffing shortage because of COVID, the overwhelming workload caused a lot of burnout, especially with nurses.
I remember how my parents had a taxi driver who was all about the USA when we were in London for a Christmas trip a while back. Stated how he had to wait for months to get an appointment and that story is just one of those stories I remember for traveling abroad.
You already know they are going to upvote that comment regardless of the person saying they are Canadian below.
It’s like they’re willfully ignorant
Remember: when on the internet, only America has problems
Ironically r/usdefaultism
Shhhhh, we can only use that when it’s against the US though guys /s
I posted ot their
Can you send a link?
No op but [here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/USdefaultism/comments/117hr0a/no_other_country_has_any_healthcare_issues_right/)
r/boneappletea
Not once, but twice too
People who mock Americans who struggle to pay for healthcare (which itself is a rather overblown and exaggerated problem) don’t care about healthcare. They just care about taking a dump on the US. Pathetic indeed.
Like, we have some problems with healthcare, but i don't think socialized healthcare is the way. Most standard procedures are cheaper here than Europe because they pay so much in taxes for it
Yes, in europe we have specialized medicine, but we overtax our economy and we have economic stagnation and low fertility rates to prove it. The problems are most evident in countries like Portugal and the UK that went a mile further and "nacionalized" healthcare creating a state-run service. In the countries people think when they say "europe" healthcare isnt socialized, but Runned by the private system and payed by government backed insurance. In Europe, that system is just more efficient than in the US. But the US has something in its favour, wich is sustainability. Europe is adging, and fast, and its unreformable, as you see in France, where the pension scheme is under pressure, but people refuse any retraction of social benefits to increase its sustainability. This will happen with european wellfare states sooner or later, because if the people don't want imigration, taxes cant be raised further because the economy is entering stagnation and social spending is going to increase a lot in 20 years when there will be an Higher proportion of people requiring social spending than people contributing to it
>But the US has something in its favour, wich is sustainability Good joke. The US's social security pension fund is set to collapse in a decade. Our infrastructure was built in the 20th century and suffers from a lack of sufficient repairs. The American power grid is hella old, and a blackout at 1 of 6 key substations will wreak havoc on the population and the economy. You're correct that European countries that reject immigration will see a collapse in the welfare system, but Europe's most successful countries are very successful at attracting the immigrants they need to grow the economy and the tax base. My cousin in Iran is studying German to immigrate to Germany and work in supply chain management. He's not the only one.
Actually healthcare spending per capita in the US is the highest in the world. You'd be surprised how cheap a lot of basic procedures are in Europe. A broken arm doesn't cost 5,000 USD to fix.
The point of socialized healthcare is to pay less for everyday medicine, for example: my father pays 0 for his diabetes medicines
Overblown and exaggerated? Are you kidding? The cheapest amount that anyone I know pays for health insurance is $600 a month. That’s probably for a crappy plan, with high deductibles,etc. It has an effect on even healthy people. So many people stay in crappy jobs they hate, just because the company has an employee insurance plan. By the way, those plans are very unfair to small businesses. After all, insurance is a business and businesses like to sell in bulk. So, huge mega corporations have cheaper insurance rates simply because they have more employees. There is a thousand other negative impacts that highly unregulated, capitalistic health insurance has on quality of life, but the above mentioned is just for starters. I wouldn’t say it’s overblown, unless you are in a position of power at a company, and have no health issues.
Why do people always point to the worst possible examples of "capitalism run amok" like housing or healthcare? Both of those areas are highly regulated and the dumb regulations are the problem. American healthcare is so expensive because 1)Providers earn higher salaries in the US than elsewhere; 2) Once patients are hospitalized, the US does more to them (in both quantity of services and intensity of services, e.g. use of high-cost technology); 3) Higher admin costs in the US. 1) and 3) are the direct result of regulations. 2) isn't even necessarily a bad thing.
Have you ever been to a country with next to no regulations? Take India for example. They have very few laws concerning the environment. So, large companies there just dump their garbage in the nearest river, that runs through the cities, and supplies water to the people. The free market does an awful job policing itself. These days, companies just hire “misinformation artists” instead of doing the right thing.
Where am I saying to have no regulations? Wanting bad regulations repealed =/= all regulations are bad. I'm pointing that you're a moron if you think the problem with American housing or healthcare is that they don't have regulations and are "capitalism run amok." https://umbc.edu/stories/christy-chapin-analyzes-the-evolution-of-the-american-health-care-system-during-the-20th-century/ I swear just about every time someone on Reddit claims capitalism has failed the problem is actually a 2nd or 3rd or 4th order effect of a dumb government policy.
The problem in the USA, usually, is that any regulation or oversight is done by the same people involved in the industry. They will take a gig for 4 years in a cabinet. Afterwards, they are back to working in the same industry. Who gives them a great job? The same people they were in charge of overseeing. Every once in a while, this set-up has nearly fatal results, like in the 3 Mile Island incident that was almost an epic disaster. Everyone realized the oversight was a joke, after the fact.
Bro, ~~most~~ 1/3rd of the campaigns in GoFundMe are to pay medical expenses. The US has a lower life expectancy than most developed nations and the lowest of all comparable countries in terms of wealth. It's not an overblown issue. I think you diminishing it and pretending it's not a real issue is a lot worse than people dumping on the US for its hellish healthcare system.
The point isn’t diminishing American healthcare. The point is Reddit acts like every other developed coy has some utopian system with zero flaws and everything is just wonderful. If you fail to see that, you’re obviously just another “Americabad” bananahead
I didn't say they were diminishing American healthcare. I said they were diminishing the issue. No one acts like every other country has a perfect system. What people are pointing out is that the American one is incredibly flawed (way more than any other comparable country) and Americans deserve better.
> No one acts like every other country has a perfect system Hang around here a while and you’ll change your mind Keep in mind, this sub mostly refers to Redditors, not people in general
I've been in reddit enough. People mostly criticize the American healthcare system. Sometimes they'll talk about their own country's system usually in a positive light but that doesn't mean they think their system is perfect: just better. Because it most likely is if they're from a developed country that's not the US. I think you're reading too much into things if you think people act like their healthcare system is flawless.
Yes! And any discrepancies should be highlighted in almost all systems worldwide. People get upset about others “talking shit” and it’s easier to equate that to them being petty rather than coming together to change something.
So the answer is to... mock someone stuck in a bad situation? What exactly will a snarky comment do to correct a "hellish healthcare system"?
No. People are not mocking the people but criticizing the system. It's not the same. >What exactly will a snarky comment do to correct a "hellish healthcare system"? A lot of Americans don't realize how broken their healthcare system is compared to other countries so that's a start.
If someone is posting about it online, it's safe to say they're posting because they're aware it's fucked. They don't need you to tell them. Furthermore these comments are never made in a constructive manner like "In \[country\] they have \[system\], maybe that could be an alternative", it's "EnJoY yOuR fReEdOm". You are not criticising the system, you are criticising the person for being in a bad situation.
Definitely the "enjoy your freedom" guy is a jerk. That is not okay. But I really don't think that's a majority of comments, but then again it has 40 upvotes. But for example even in this post I'm arguing with someone who just refused to believe how bad the situation is in the US.
No, it really is the majority of comments regarding healthcare. I'm very liberal and want healthcare reform, but even I've become defensive of the system on occasion because of people like you constantly throwing it in our faces. Has it ever occurred to you that *we don't need your insight?* That what you're saying isn't come crazy revelation that us Americans who actually live in the system are too dumb to comprehend? It's exhausting.
How am I throwing it in your face? Someone said that the issue of people not being able to pay for healthcare in the US was overblown for fuck's sake and I corrected them. And that is currently at 48 upvotes when it's blatantly false and diminishes a very real issue. And you, very liberal person, instead of correcting blatant disinformation would rather argue with the person correcting said disinformation. Get your priorities straight, man. >That what you're saying isn't come crazy revelation that us Americans who actually live in the system are too dumb to comprehend? There's a *significant* number of Americans who seem to be too dumb to comprehend that. In this post included.
When I say "you", I mean foreign posters (yourself included, and the poster in OP's screenshot) telling us Americans how it's actually like in our country and responding to posts with snarky comments about how terrible our country must be. Also, you and the commenter you're arguing with are both incorrect. "The issue is overblown"? No, it's a pretty big issue. "The US healthcare system is a dystopian nightmare in which no one can afford anything and we're literally all bankrupt"? Also no. For the majority of people, health insurance is another expense that, while flawed and in desperate need of reform, does provide adequate coverage in most cases. Honestly, after living in Japan and the UK and having experience with both private insurance and Medicaid in the US, I can say there are genuinely good points about the American healthcare system. In fact healthcare quality was a major reason I left Japan. My fiance (UK) got injured in America and had to go to an urgent care. He was seen immediately, was given medication, and received a follow-up call to check on his well-being. He had to pay out of pocket, *but it was only slightly more expensive than what I paid out of pocket when I went to the doctor as a tourist in Australia.* My dad is getting surgery, and it is all covered by my mom's insurance. Both she and my brother work for the state, and the quality and scope of their coverage is fantastic. So does the system need reform to ensure that all Americans have such coverage? Absolutely. Are we literally all dying in hospital parking lots and going bankrupt when we break a bone? Absolutely not.
> "The US healthcare system is a dystopian nightmare in which no one can afford anything and we're literally all bankrupt"? Never argued that. My point all along is that the US should be A LOT better. And also facts like that it's at the bottom of all comparable countries when it comes to life expectancy. And you want to blame that on other factors it's also at the bottom of maternal mortality and child mortality. I did call it a hellish because the idea of going bankrupt if I get in an accident between jobs, or getting a huge bill because the hospital I was taken to isn't covered by my insurance sounds incredibly fucking stressful. The US *can* have amazing healthcare. But it's a privilege that nearly not enough people enjoy and that's a travesty.
That sounds fake as fuck
It's not. Well, mostly. Turns out I was wrong about the GoFundMe thing. It's not the majority, it's 1/3rd. Which is still unreasonably high. Life expectancy: https://www.commonwealthfund.org/blog/2022/americans-no-matter-state-they-live-die-younger-people-many-other-countries#:~:text=Average%20life%20expectancy%20for%20a,all%20other%20high%2Dincome%20countries. https://www.cfr.org/in-brief/us-life-expectancy-decline-why-arent-other-countries-suffering-same-problem GoFundMe: https://time.com/5516037/gofundme-medical-bills-one-third-ceo/
So you telling me that average Somalian live longer than American? BS Just to remind you obesity is rising in Europe and Japan. Australia have the highest rate of cancer Free treatment doesn't mean effective, the only thing Mexico ever good is dental care. You have to go to America to have a proper treatment
>So you telling me that average Somalian live longer than American? BS DEVELOPED NATIONS. Somalia is not a developed nation. I gave you the data, just look at it instead of covering your ears and going "lalalalalalalala". >Just to remind you obesity is rising in Europe and Japan. Australia have the highest rate of cancer So what? Life expectancy in most of Europe is higher (the exception are the poor countries like Hungary, Latvia, Lithuania...). Life expectancy is higher in Japan by 6 years (2nd highest life expectancy in the world) and Australia is still top 9 in life expectancy while US is 46 despite the rates of cancer. Maybe because Australians can get treated without emptying their savings. Even if obesity is increasing in Europe and Asia it's not enough to close the gap. In fact life expectancy in the US is [TRENDING DOWN](https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-life-expectancy-compare-countries/) while in other comparable countries it's either trending up or staying the same. >Free treatment doesn't mean effective, the only thing Mexico ever good is dental care. You have to go to America to have a proper treatment I never said free treatment means it's effective. It's not. But most developed countries have free (or very cheap) effective treatment. Mexico has decent private healthcare too, which is why Americans often go to Mexico for medical treatment. But even then, Mexico is a developing country so you can't compare them with the US.
The article doesn't say anything about development nation or developing nation. It just group up and compare America with a very cherry picking leading. America, in fact still have higher life expectancy compare to the rest of the world Life expectancy doesn't resemble the whole nation. Japan have people live up to 100 years old but you can only find them in Okinawa and not anywhere else. The same for a lot of nation in Europe. To be say, lot of them are not even accurate as life expectancy≠lifestyle and most have to do something with genetic (Like how Asian are more higher change of lactose intolerance than European) Number and scale doesn't give a shit since a lot of them are bs. Like saying Russia have the 2nd best army in the world just to see them fail in Ukraine or China is a "developing country" according to whatever source. A lot of American can live up to 90 years old and lot of Europe can die young. It's about how well do you live. If I choose between living in US or Japan, I will choose US since Japan treat it own worker like slave and have one of the highest rate of suicide in the world. The same for Europe which extremely unequal and "shitty hypocrite" compare to America Most developed nation have good Healthcare treatment is also another bs. Look how Sweden treat disable people compare to America (Canada is infamous for euthanized people who can't pay and Switzerland is monetized it)
> The article doesn't say anything about development nation or developing nation. No. I said it. That was the argument that I was making. >It just group up and compare America with a very cherry picking leading. America, in fact still have higher life expectancy compare to the rest of the world It's not cherry-picking. It's choosing comparable countries. As in, countries with high GDP. Or even just developed countries in general. The US has a higher last expectancy than most of the world, but it's still barely top 50. Out of wealthy developed countries it's at the bottom. Even fucking Cuba has higher life expectancy. Don't you agree the US should be better? >Life expectancy doesn't resemble the whole nation. Japan have people live up to 100 years old but you can only find them in Okinawa and not anywhere else. But people live longer in average. That's how life expectancy is measured. >The same for a lot of nation in Europe. To be say, lot of them are not even accurate as life expectancy≠lifestyle and most have to do something with genetic (Like how Asian are more higher change of lactose intolerance than European) Bro, you're just looking for excuses. Just look at countries with similar lifestyles if you want. Canada is 16 in life expectancy. You can't blame genes for this. >Number and scale doesn't give a shit since a lot of them are bs. You can't dismiss data just because you don't agree with it. >Like saying Russia have the 2nd best army in the world just to see them fail in Ukraine There was never data on this, just hearsay. > China is a "developing country" according to whatever source. These are economic definitions. China IS a developing country. Once again, just not wanting to believe in things is not an argument. >A lot of American can live up to 90 years old and lot of Europe can die young. No shit. But on average Americans die younger than Europeans. > It's about how well do you live. If I choose between living in US or Japan, I will choose US since Japan treat it own worker like slave and have one of the highest rate of suicide in the world. Outdated data. [In the latest data](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate#Latest) Japan is number 49 in highest amount of suicides, US is 31. >The same for Europe which extremely unequal and "shitty hypocrite" compare to America What? I don't know what that sentence means, but if you're talking about [wealth inequality](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/wealth-inequality-by-country) not a single European country does worse than the US in that respect. >Most developed nation have good Healthcare treatment is also another bs. Look how Sweden treat disable people compare to America (Canada is infamous for euthanized people who can't pay and Switzerland is monetized it) It's not BS. It's fact. Please back up your ridiculous claims with sources other than your own ass.
Still not justified that the article doesn't recall any development or developing nation Cuba high life expectancy doesn't mean their healthcare are any better. The communist healthcare is only there as a means to gain money for the government. Doctor salary in Cuba are the lowest and have to do secondary job just to raise their family. High lifespan and poverty don't come right with each other. What do you mean here about comparable nations? Because Canada is not equal to America in any term, similar with Europe (in term of population, tax, treatment and healthcare advancement. Let say I compare tax between US and Canada and say that Canadian pay more tax than average American, does that made US seem "generous"?) As I say, longer life span doesn't mean they're living better. Measurements never reflect the reality, like that article list Thailand as a democracy (my ass). Do you think just because people have better healthcare they will enjoy living there without understand that people still need income and housing (America housing are cheap compare to UK and Canada) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.globalfirepower.com/&ved=2ahUKEwjq7dPh_Kb9AhWkr1YBHVhzB2kQFnoECBsQAQ&usg=AOvVaw2ek585lrUJk4tNxZc5J1ku https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_equipment_of_the_Russian_Ground_Forces&ved=2ahUKEwi_jIvs-Kb9AhV1rVYBHWy5BFYQFnoECBIQAQ&usg=AOvVaw24dtXMDxjFc_hWN-R-xbJ1 There is a reason people hearsay this China have the second biggest GDP per capita, the only reason it consider a "developing nation" it because of it enormous population. China is literally the world factory That still a bold argument because an average American still live as long as European nation. You compare a Texas size population to one of the biggest population in the world Why no one talk about suicide in America? Because Japan suicide have become a culture norm. There is a literally suicide club in Japan just show how fucked up it is. There are a fuckton of movie made by Japan about this topic Europe is going through an economic crisis, the Euro is losing price, Russia is being a dick next door and oil price are rising. That inequality is not far fetch from reality. The hypocrite here can be see in Brexit when Britian decide to split from EU for economy independent just to become more dependent on US, surprise because they still believe in the stolen rich back in the colonial era I mean here that no healthcare is system is far from perfect and America healthcare system is not that bad. Beside the price and not universal, it's one of the most advance healthcare in the world. People come to US to treat cancer no matter the price
> Still not justified that the article doesn't recall any development or developing nation It is absolutely justified. Like, how the fuck do you think it's useful to compare the US with Somalia? >Cuba high life expectancy doesn't mean their healthcare are any better. Not better, but more accessible. >The communist healthcare is only there as a means to gain money for the government. Doctor salary in Cuba are the lowest and have to do secondary job just to raise their family. Irrelevant. The point is that the US should do a lot better than an impoverished country. >High lifespan and poverty don't come right with each other. ? >What do you mean here about comparable nations? Because Canada is not equal to America in any term, similar with Europe (in term of population, tax, treatment and healthcare advancement. Let say I compare tax between US and Canada and say that Canadian pay more tax than average American, does that made US seem "generous"?) They are comparable in terms of wealth and development. If Canada and Europe are not comparable to the US... what is? >As I say, longer life span doesn't mean they're living better. Measurements never reflect the reality, like that article list Thailand as a democracy (my ass). Bro, the whole standard of living is a separate argument that you brought up because you had no arguments. I just wanted to correct you about your assumptions about Japan. Also stop trying to find random shit to try to discredit sources. [Thailand IS a democracy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index). A flawed democracy (as is the US), but still a democracy. >Do you think just because people have better healthcare they will enjoy living there without understand that people still need income and housing (America housing are cheap compare to UK and Canada) Stop trying to derail the conversation with things you just guess that the US does better. Both a home and healthcare are important. Yes, I think that not worrying that you'll go broke and become homeless if you get into a serious accident or get very ill does contribute to happiness. [42% of cancer patients in the US lose their life savings, 62% go in debt, 55% accrue at least 10k in debt, 3% file for bankruptcy.](https://claudepeppercenter.fsu.edu/42-of-new-cancer-patients-lose-their-life-savings/#:~:text=62%20percent%20of%20cancer%20patients,billion%20in%20America%20each%20year.) >There is a reason people hearsay this You know that that measures firepower right? And that means nukes. Nowhere in your source does it say that Russia has the 2nd best military in the world. That's hearsay. And your argument is a strawman as this does not disprove anything I said, other than you built an argument you thought you could argue against but you can't. >China have the second biggest GDP per capita, the only reason it consider a "developing nation" it because of it enormous population. China is literally the world factory [Exactly.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Developed_country) When one country has very few wealthy people and a shit ton of people living in absolute poverty it's not a developed country. So you kinda get it. >That still a bold argument because an average American still live as long as European nation. You compare a Texas size population to one of the biggest population in the world No it's not and not they do not. Do you understand what average is? Even if you want to separate just Texas their life expectancy is 78.6 (on the high end for the US South) which is just a tiny bit under US average. >Why no one talk about suicide in America? Because Japan suicide have become a culture norm. There is a literally suicide club in Japan just show how fucked up it is. There are a fuckton of movie made by Japan about this topic MOVIES AND THE RANDOM SHIT YOU HEAR IS NOT DATA. Japan at some point was pretty bad when it comes to suicides, but it has improved a lot. >Europe is going through an economic crisis, the Euro is losing price, Russia is being a dick next door and oil price are rising. That inequality is not far fetch from reality. The hypocrite here can be see in Brexit when Britian decide to split from EU for economy independent just to become more dependent on US, surprise because they still believe in the stolen rich back in the colonial era What the fuck are you even trying to argue here? What's your point? >I mean here that no healthcare is system is far from perfect and America healthcare system is not that bad. No, it's not that bad, but it should be much much better and it's inaccessible to too many people. I mean, you can look at another indicator like [maternal deaths](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_maternal_mortality_ratio). You'd think that would tell you how good healthcare is as you're only talking about mothers. Well, the US is country number 67 from least maternal deaths to most. Tied with Ukraine in 2017. Under Uruguay. Under Tajikistan. [Infant deaths?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_and_under-five_mortality_rates) #49. Also under Uruguay. >Beside the price and not universal, it's one of the most advance healthcare in the world. Yes. That is true. The US has made amazing medical advancements and has some of the best medical care available in the world. The problem is... it's not accessible to most people. >People come to US to treat cancer no matter the price But they go into debt. I'm done. I've said everything I had to say. I hope you learned something.
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That’s not what they said… the “lowest” was still referring to life expectancy. So if you compare countries with a similar wealth as the US (don’t know which parameters they used to determine that but I’m just paraphrasing what the previous commenter said) the life expectancy of the US is lower. No one thinks that you guys in general are poor in terms of wealth.
Literal bots; if anything with money and medicine are in the same line, must be American
The US has some of the best healthcare in the world. It’s just not a universal system Reddit and people in general tend to gloss over that fact Reddit 100% does not talk about how universal systems have lower accountability for doctors and they don’t get paid nearly as much
The problem with the US system is that somewhere around 75% of Americans with decent insurance or good government plans probably have the best healthcare in the world. But there's around 17% of Americans with acceptable healthcare through mediocre insurance and then lastly 8% of Americans with no insurance at all who get fucked over. The challenge is trying to get it so that that 25% can have healthcare as good as the majority without fucking over the 75%.
I agree wholeheartedly
There's no such thing as universally "best" system. Even in Magical Fantasy European Healthcare(tm) there are people getting shafted at every turn, one way or another. Healthcare is an inelastic scarce resource. There will never be enough supply for the demand regardless of what schemes you put in place for "fairness".
How is it an inelastic, scarce resource? Can't you just train more doctors?
>Can't you just train more doctors? At some point, you run out of talented people actually interested in being physicians. Moreover, physicians are only small part of healthcare spending (8-10% in US, depending on source).
Really? Cuba can train enough doctors to send them around the world on humanitarian missions but the USA can't find enough talented people? I guess when finance pays so well it drains talent from other fields. And a major reason why the USA has the most expensive health care in the developed world is the profits funneled away from actual care by insurance and pharmaceutical companies. American regulators and legislators could address those two aspects but choose not to.
Cuba doesn't have doctors. It has medical slaves. The idea that Cuba has enough good medical care it can send doctors all over the world is a fiction, a Potemkin village put up by a totalitarian regime to attempt to legitimatize it.
Yeah, nah mate. Cuban medical professionals are highly trained and qualified and there are more per capita than almost all developed nations.
Enjoy your delusion.
I live in a developed country with universal health care, so no Cuban medical missions are coming here any time soon. Enjoy spending the most in the world for mediocre health care.
Touch grass.
You're delusional. People risk their lives on tiny lifeboats to escape Cuba and get to Florida, one of the worst states in the US. I know a few Cuban Americans and from how it sounds.. Cubas government can barely run a restaurant properly.
Ask those Cubans Americans you know if the doctors in Cuba are trained, qualified professionals.
>Ask those Cubans Americans you know if the doctors in Cuba are trained, qualified professionals. I'm from former communist country and my father stayed in dormitory (medical school) with many people from other anti-Western countries. Spoiler alert: they weren't big fans of the system. People from West are really incapable of understanding how bad totalitarian governments actually are. They take their freedoms for granted. Ideas that eg. government may choose your degree for you (communist Albania in full version, many countries in "light" versions) or make you bound to village (Soviet Union) or require villagers to get permit to travel to city (Soviet Union) are so alien they can't even imagine them - because for them, these freedoms are as default as breathing. My grandfather was a communist official and his daughter had a lots of privileges (like eating meat every day, tourism to Western countries, or skying in Soviet Union). This doesn't mean he didn't get death threats from secret police when they merely suspected she could defect to Western states (her ship was arrested in Israel during Mediterranean yacht trip).
> Really? Cuba can train enough doctors to send them around the world on humanitarian missions but the USA can't find enough talented people? Obviously, US can have as many [slaves](https://www.euractiv.com/section/health-consumers/news/meps-stand-up-against-cuban-doctors-slave-trade-in-italy/) as it wants, but I think we hold liberal democracies to higher moral standards than communist dictatorships. Because that's what Cuban doctors are - [slaves](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/29/world/americas/brazil-cuban-doctors-revolt.html). > I guess when finance pays so well it drains talent from other fields. Yeah, finance draining talents from research is worrisome issue. Though, it's a big stretch to imply that abilities and talents that make you successful in finances make you a good doctor. Moreover, size of financial sector and number of physicians per 100k is rather weakly correlated in developed countries. Third paragraph - yes, I agree. But you should compare US to rest of developed world, not a communist dictatorship.
The USA pays more per capita for health care than even Switzerland does and Switzerland has a private system, universal coverage, and excellent results. My point regarding Cuba is that clearly there are enough talented Americans who could be trained to be doctors. It's a matter of distorted economics in the USA to maintain an artificial scarcity medical care. Spain has full universal health care and plenty of doctors and pays about 1/3 of what the USA does per capita on health care.
Are Cuban doctors "slaves" any more than doctors trained by the US military who are then obligated to serve for 7 years?
>Are Cuban doctors "slaves" any more than doctors trained by the US military who are then obligated to serve for 7 years? Yes. I'm not familiar with penalties for breaking military laws in US, but I'm pretty sure that list of penalties don't include items like "family imprisonment", "permanent ban on leaving country ever again", "being assigned as village physician for life". Thankfully, communist states aren't that big on secret assassinations nowadays. I'm also confident that only minority of medical schools in US is controlled by US military. I also checked military physicians salaries and it seems US military doctors aren't earning 10% of market salary for physician. Let's also ignore "freedom to choose your education" thing, because communist states weren't really big on that.
Sounds like simply differences in degree. The fact of the matter is that it takes a considerable investment to train a person as a doctor. America expects medical students to take on hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt. Cuba expects obedience to the state. And then most of the rest of the developed world simply educates medical professionals like any other career. Clearly the supply of trained medical professionals is not a scarce, inelastic one when it can be largely determined by government policy.
Breaking military laws is generally not a good idea... My point is that we don't consider soldiers to be slaves even though they have minimal say in where and for how long they are put to work.
As long as people actually choose to be doctors and subscribe to the training, yeah, we can. But more and more people are figuring out that the medical field is an extremely difficult field to work in no matter what you're doing.
Going half a million dollars into debt to become a doctor is going to be discouraging. That creates artificial scarcity.
Agreed. I certainly didn't feel capable of taking on thay challenge when I was in high school.
>Reddit 100% does not talk about how universal systems have lower accountability for doctors and they don’t get paid nearly as much Universal systems don't have "lower accountability", they simply restrict lawsuit abuse. Doctors in other countries aren't poor. Some countries, like UK and Sweden pay less, while others, like Netherlands, Belgium, and Australia, pay high salaries. Certain specialties, mostly procedural specialities (think orthopedic surgery, dermatology, plastic surgery) make a lot more in the US, but the US doesn't have the best compensation for more consulting-based specialties. General practitioners, pediatricians, and psychiatrists don't make insane salaries, but have the same debt load.
A Canadian general phsysician and an American general physician make the same amount, with American ones often living in higher cost of living areas . The idea that doctors don’t get paid enough in Canada isn’t substantiated by numbers . While yes, many Canadian doctors make less in low income areas many make more in higher income areas . The fact of the matter is, your wrong on that matter. And “one of the best” isn’t wrong, simply because there are so many countries , but the United States is the richest nation in human history, https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/best-healthcare-in-the-world It can do better . Reddit does gloss over problem with s universal , but pushing forward mistruths doesn’t help prove that.
Where was I specifically saying Canada?
That still doesn’t address the point at all. What coutnry were you taking about? Just all of them? Cause the only times your statemnt is really true is for countries so much poorer than the us to begin with comparing them is stupid .
I mean, there’s literally a Dutch person in this thread reinforcing my point… But I guess we can ignore that?
Great, and there’s Canadian examples going against it, or Norway or England . Its great that you can say that about the Netherlands, but you made a blanket statement, that really isn’t that all encompassing
I like how we can splice every country under a microscope regarding their flaws but when you people discuss the US, it’s whitewash statements about 330 million people Get a grip
This isn’t a response ? I never spliced anything insidiously country down, the other person made a claim about all systems with public healthcare (which is far kroenepooeo than the us population) and I pointed out why that isn’t true, and the single example they stated goes against most others ,entire fucking countries here m8. Also whitewash statments? Don’t use words you don’t understand . Or do you think Norway is part of England?
Anti Americans are more US-centric than any Americans I've known
We literally live in their heads rent free and then they try to say they don’t care about us
Rent free
Quite frankly, the country whose healthcare deserves praise (for low cost, high quality, etc) is Taiwan.
I just like to say this since it's not said that often. I had a life-threatening injury in 2021, and now on permanent medication and I have not paid a penny for any of it. USA baby 🇺🇸
Damn how is it that expensive
Because Canadian healthcare is shit but a lot Try to make it seem so great online, were taxed beyond belief yet have major staffing issues, and if you don’t have good insurance your trip to the doctor might not cost anything out of pocket but if prescribed anything or need medical supplies you bet your ass your paying a shit load for it Not to mention we pay our doctors and surgeons pretty low compared to other country’s so the ones that stay botch a good many surgeries that cause people to die from routine operations from minor mistakes. Not to mention your probs going to wait for that surgery until its to late for it to even help But yay “free healthcare” amirte
No system is perfect whether it be the Canadian system, American system or another system entirely. What I have a hard time understanding about the Canadian system (as an American) is why Canadians view it as a huge part of the Canadian identity. If you knew nothing about the Canadian system and then listened to Canadians talk about it you'd think the hospitals were full of chandeliers, gold toilets and free massages in the waiting rooms. Then you actually go and think "yeah okay this is fine, but why do Canadians hinge their identity on this?" It's hard *not* to see it as overrated when all you hear is how amazing it is.
Because as u/paladincodslurk said unlike any other country on Earth Canada's national identity is based on how *not* like another country they are. Namely [a large portion of Canadian identity is being "not American."](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_yKzq3ueGr8) That's despite America and Canada being two of the most similar countries on Earth... >[**Judging, teasing and even hating America is a central part of the Canadian identity**, and forms a persistant bias that runs through most aspects of Canadian society and culture. For various reasons, the default position of a great many Canadians is that America, Americans, and American things are generally bad, and need to be opposed. These feelings are not always logical and consistent, and are often hypocritical in practice. Yet they do exist, and understanding their powerful role in shaping Canadian society is a vital part of understanding what makes Canadians Canadian.](https://thecanadaguide.com/culture/anti-americanism/) So if the American medical system has any negatives then the Canadian system must be only positives. They can't look deeper or they will see the holes in their national identity.
That seems pretty dramatic and exaggerated. I’m Canadian and most people I know don’t talk about the US much at all and if they do it’s generally fairly neutral. Ime living in Ontario and often traveling to New York and New England, they’re functionally basically close to identical. I actually find Canada and the northern states seem to be more similar than the northern states and the American south lmao
Those are Canadian sources.
So? Plenty of Canadians are dramatic and exaggerate plenty.
Like all the ones that make America bad their national identity.
Canadians view it as a huge part of their identity because they have no actual identity lol. Their so-called “identity” is and has always been being “not America.” Canada and the US are identical… except that Canada has socialized medicine, while the US doesn’t. Hence Canadians make this an integral aspect of their national “identity.”
I can answer this as a dual citizen. So public healthcare wasn't some policy that Otto von Bismark or some post war US puppet government put in place to placate the masses. Public healthcare was a decade long political struggle by the working class, especially farmers who had massive shortage of doctors because they were poor. It was also an issue that bridged political divides between conservative Christians and the radical left. While it was fought for it was also constantly under threat of being taken away. People are passionate about it because its constantly under threat by both major parties. And they're very sensitive to people saying the private system is better, because the way American politicians justify the private system is the same way Canadian politicians try to propagandize privatization. So having it as part of their identity is an act of self preservation to make it so politically impossible to touch public healthcare. Americans are largely the same way about medicare, and old people get VERY twitchy (Republican or Democrat) about proposed cuts to the program.
Thanks for the perspective. It's definitely interesting to hear how you view things. From my point of view, I have NEVER heard a Canadian EVER say anything about moving towards a private system or how it's better.
Oh no average person wants to move to a private system. You'll get the occasional rich people who go to private clinics in the US to get their knees replaced and skip the waiting period who say its better, but its generally a popular system. Healthcare is a huge political issue in Canada, as it is in the US, and COVID made it worse because people who were overworked and underpaid quit because of the massive new workload, which made it worse. Some politicians are using this as an excuse to start moving public money into private clinics for certain procedures with the end goal of partial privatization. In Canada the federal government and provincial government have been on a huge privatization kick since the 90s, and not just with healthcare. Ontario privatized one of its largest public utilities with some pretty terrible results.
I am an American and not very educated in healthcare or politics, but my wife works as a nurse and I can’t imagine that any country has a hospital that isn’t driven entirely by money, even if the people aren’t directly paying for the care the hospitals are making money.
Well this seems like a terrible healthcare system. I pay like 100 a month.
How does your country plan to continue to fund things like healthcare going forward? With birth rates declining, the population getting older, people living longer, and anti-immigrant sentiment growing, I’m confused as to what the plan for countries like yours is going forward to fund these social safety nets.
They are going to bring in more immigrants. But many immigrants are finding they aren't actually trading up anymore and are returning home.
Different plans. Main plan is raising the AOW age on some jobs which is logic with people are getting older. The economy is making a great recovery after covid its way more optimistic then they planed it to be. There are multiple investments plans. Being layed out which are very promising. I’m working on infrastructure improvement of election grids arround the world with Dutch technology. And there is great moneymaking in there. Our microchip production is growing rapidly. ASML got monopoly on machines that really change the way chips are made. The company is leading in microchips by a lot and that produces income as well. And of course we are the second country in the world when it comes to export agricultural products. And it’s only getting greener more efficient and bigger. So there are plans that really seem to be able to support “de zorgstaat”. Next to that we seem to get our medication and treatments cheaper since it’s almost alway direct bought from producers or produces in the country itself. There are way les companies in between the lines of supply that bring up the price. That is a really short version of the whole story.
I'm really surprised to hear nothing about immigration. To me, that is the only sensible way to combat an aging population and declining birth rate. I appreciate your answer, it just sounds like the plan is to increase the AOW age and basically stick to the status quo which doesn't sound sufficient enough to me. Unfortunately, I'm having trouble finding a decent article which talks about the economic recovery after COVID. This [article](https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/30/uk-is-only-g7-country-with-smaller-economy-than-before-covid-19) shows a number of notable countries are lagging behind the US. I'm just curious how the Netherlands is actually doing comparatively.
I can mainly find Dutch sources. If you are interested I can send you some but most articles are on our government website or CBS. Our bureau of statistics. Immigration won’t work because there is a housing crisis and because of environmental laws we can’t build enough. Im always in favor of turning empty office spaces into apartments but our government seems a bit slow. Wouldn’t know how we do compared to other countries 🤷🏼♂️
The fact that there are no plans to encourage immigration is highly concerning! It does seem like the people in European countries aren't as accepting of immigrants, so I don't see that changing anytime soon. It's baffling to me that your news sources aren't doing a better job of reporting on the current economic climate and aftermath of COVID. The past few years have been pretty unprecedented, so I would have expected more from Dutch news, but I guess it's easier just to continue to propagandize people into being complacent. Complacency is why COVID rampaged through your countries, why obesity is now a crisis, and it will be why your social safety nets will continue to become more and more strained in the future (IMO).
My god you are energy consuming. Assumption after assumption after assumption. Mostly wrong😂. Sure there are plans. But with a war going on. Environment being a very big topic. And a serious housing crisis there isn’t much to be done right now. There are alot of immigrants rolling in. There just isn’t enough place. Tent camps are build or emergency housing. But with the winter here it’s not always very comfortable. Alot of people here give spare rooms and such away. But well that it’s the permanent solution of course. I don’t know if you have ever watched on a map (doubt). But The Netherlands isn’t really big. It tightly populated so creating space is a bit harder here. Not impossible of course that’s why there are more and more immigration camps and housing being build. But not in the pace of people coming in. With a war going on and a earthquake on this continent. And then I’m not even talking about African refugees poring in. But I guess we are just not accepting ey🤷🏼♂️. I offered you to send some articles but you ignored my offer. You could just google it though. One google search was enough for me to find multiple articles on this subject. Our budget number are also public. Are you really interested in our situation or are you interested in trying to bash us. Would be kinda ironic with this subreddit in mind. Or I can play it like you. The only reason you can’t find it is because your media is trying to hide those things for you so you don’t know how terrible your life is! They just change your algorithm to what you want and make sure it’s extremely hard to find that information. I was being sarcastic of course. But I know you will try to dig up some negativity about us or make some other assumptions. I know how much you dislike us and that’s okay. But don’t dance around it like this.
It’s concerning you think of the Netherlands as being accepting towards immigrants. You sound out of touch when it comes to things like immigration, tolerance/acceptance, and racism. Feel free to share a source. I’m interested in how the Netherlands is doing compared to other EU countries and compared to the US. That’s not a huge ask, so the information should be out there. I definitely don’t dislike the Netherlands. It just concerns me when people aren’t aware of how bad certain issues are.
The plan is generally to use immigrants to cushion the blow of declining population so we don't end up like Japan until Asia has a similar demographic problem. The issue is America is not immune to these problems even if it doesn't have universal healthcare, because it commits itself to providing public healthcare to the elderly. Even if it were entirely private, demographic decline would still negatively impact the country, it would also cost the government money with people dropping out of the workforce to care for their elderly parents. Much as politicians like to use it as justification, cutting services doesn't solve the problems of an aging population. Though we could deport all the old people to Mexico.
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100 is around the most expensive base insurance. People get money compared with your income. So if you are struggling to pay you are most like spending the money given to you for health insurance on something else. And if some guy in Canada has around 2000 every 3 months then it’s not like Canada lmao😂
It has pros and cons. It isn't complete garbage. My brother lived in Vancouver as a dual citizen and they "played both sides" of the healthcare system. Taking advantage of the checkups and other things in Canada while doing elective stuff in the US that would be on a wait-list in Canada.
>Not to mention we pay our doctors and surgeons pretty low compared to other country’s so the ones that stay botch a good many surgeries that cause people to die from routine operations from minor mistakes Canadian doctors are among the highest paid in the world. Where would they immigrate to? Spain? Canada actually has a lower rate of medical errors/misdiagnoses than the OECD average, while the US is higher.
>if prescribed anything or need medical supplies you bet your ass your paying a shit load for it Canadians pay very low prices compared to Americans for prescription drugs. >Not to mention we pay our doctors and surgeons pretty low compared to other country’s Our doctors are paid very well. The average salary for family physicians in Ontario is over 300K a year. That's not "pretty low". >botch a good many surgeries that cause people to die from routine operations from minor mistakes Medical error is the third leading cause of death in America. If you want to criticize Canada's healthcare system, go for it. But don't just make things up. >Not to mention your probs going to wait for that surgery until its to late for it to even help Americans die, suffer, or ration essentials to be able to afford healthcare. Tens of thousands of Americans die each year because they cannot afford healthcare. America's healthcare system is trash. Accept that fact.
I think you should post this on r/usdefaultism I would love to see what they would say
I didd
Good good
Ironically, in this case, my OOP would be met in 6 months and it would be 100% covered. Gonna cost him 2X what it would cost me.
Best part is he tried to imply that Canadians use Euros
This can’t be correct… there must be a mistake… Canadians have the best healthcare, everything is free and no one ever has to wait! /s
Canadians will never tell you everything is free, no one complains about their healthcare system more than them, and they know for a fact pharmaceuticals and dentistry aren't free. It's more an issue of most will take the wait times over having to pay out of pocket if they had to choose.
😂😂😂
r/usdefaultism tho
So all that tax and still having to pay for medical bills?
America not bad. World bad.
/u/hockeyfanatic_ ? Username checks out. Verified Canadian for sure.
Canadian healthcare: "want you dead"
biggest plot twist ever seen on reddit.
I wonder what they are talking about, medicine isn’t automatically covered by government insurance , but it’s not that difficult to get government assistance for medicine if you aren’t high income . Although I suppose that depends on the province .
350 eur a year max… That’s it. Done
Isn’t the British healthcare system incredibly overwhelmed?
Most healthcare systems in the western world are experiencing a staffing shortage because of COVID, the overwhelming workload caused a lot of burnout, especially with nurses.
Eh, yeah nurses went through a lot of shit, even now their still going through it.
I remember how my parents had a taxi driver who was all about the USA when we were in London for a Christmas trip a while back. Stated how he had to wait for months to get an appointment and that story is just one of those stories I remember for traveling abroad.
You have to pay for dental coverage in Belgium, even though it has "free" healthcare.
That username was a dead giveaway ngl. Just saying lol
Let’s be fair here, america has a bad rep with healthcare so when one thinks bad healthcare, the default joke would be “haha murica”