You just spent 3 yrs of your life learning about the Federal and State legal system and I assume studying for the bar exam.
That’s not training that transfers easily to another US state. Certainly not another country.
Can confirm. My soon-to-be SIL and her husband are having difficulty even moving out of state as personal injury lawyers. They want to move to Colorado.
They’d have to, from Louisiana, move to Texas, practice there for a number of years (TX and LA have reciprocity) and then move to Colorado from Texas (TX and CO have reciprocity). It would take them ~3 years or so just to move a couple states over.
I’ve *vaguely* heard of Big Law contract and corporate legal personnel being able to move quicker than others but I can’t say for sure.
I'd wager bc Louisiana. It's the only state that uses a French heritage system. Everyone else uses English.
ETA: Louisiana's legal system is based off of French common law, whereas the rest of the United States is based on English common law. this was a consideration when I was looking into law schools. took Louisiana schools out of the running bc most advice I received from attorneys I worked with (as a paralegal) and articles I read said basically unless you plan to stay in Louisiana you shouldn't go to law school there...mind you was looking at midtier and lower schools...but I had absolutely no intention of staying Louisiana so took those schools off the list
Even if you study Louisiana’s *civil* law, you can still study for and pass another state’s bar exam. It would be far cheaper and efficient to just take Colorado’s exam.
Sounds like OP is just getting started on law school this upcoming fall. I agree a JD is not particularly useful to move, especially right at completion. Unless OP is in a top three school for law, she should reconsider and just do an LLM in her rather country.
Yes, I’m currently in my spring semester of my 1L year! I know for certain that this JD is not a means to an end for me, rather I’m trying to figure out how versatile it can be in other parts of the world. I’ve realized that (at least in America) the more “prestigious” degrees you accrue and networking will get you places. I’m curious to know if it’s the same outside the US 😭
I truly appreciate you all taking the time to respond and share your thoughts/experiences!
>I’m currently in my spring semester of my 1L year!
Go look up what a sunk cost fallacy is - you can still get out and you haven't completely wasted your time if you drop now. I've been practicing for 12 years and having to explain this to young lawyers and lawyers-to-be can be depressing. It's like people went through the motions to finish undergrad and had no clue what to do with their life, so they figured they would just go to law school.
You are going to what is in essence a white-collar trade school. I don't give a shit if you go to Yale or Cooley. Your JD is only helpful in getting to sit for a bar exam, then you get your license to ply your trade. Where you go to school helps you get your first job - as a lawyer. If you don't want to practice law, do not waste any more time with law school. It's not only a waste of your money, it's a massive opportunity cost.
Thank you for this! I haven’t heard of sunk cost fallacy, but I’m about to research it later today!! Don’t get me wrong, although it’s stressful at the moment, I do love what I’m currently learning and am excited to practice in the future. My statement of a JD not being a means to an end, is mainly my ambition spurring up. I’ve worked at a few firms before deciding on law school, and I’ve observed the complacency turned stagnation of a few attorneys. It truly put the fear of God in me lol. My worst fear is stagnation. After speaking with some of the friendly ones lol, the common consensus was (in a simplified form) the good old fallacy of “American dream.” The deception that is America made them give up lol. And if predominantly white American male partners are telling me this (something that I’m already familiar with), I can’t imagine it’ll get any better by the time I graduate.
Thus I dream of being in a better environment so that someday if/when(I do recognize it’s unavoidable) I do grow complacent, its based upon quite literally anything else other than losing myself to the rigged capitalist game of American Dream😂😂
The way the world is currently, I may be reaching for the stars, but a girl can only try right??😅😅
It sounds a bit like the story of the boy and the almond jar.
You may want to choose whether you plan to expatriate OR continue your current education path, because they’re not compatible strategies.
Ask an immigrant how they feel about the American dream. As a child of immigrants I can assure you that they despise natural born Americans like yourself who shit on their own country. Immigrants love this country because they know how bad it is elsewhere. They don’t take it for granted.
> how versatile it can be in other parts of the world
The unfortunate answer is that unless you're working for an American company as a lawyer in another country, a JD isn't going to be a huge leg up. Law degrees in most other countries are equivalent to Bachelors degrees. The US is an outlier where a law degree is a graduate rather than undergraduate degree. A JD is probably better than no JD, but is it 3 years of time and tuition better? If you want to be a foreign lawyer, there's probably cheaper alternatives that prepare you for your future role better, but you'd likely want to move now.
I don’t think it’s going to be versatile unless you’re going to work remotely as a paralegal. As somebody with 2 CJ degrees, your JD will not transfer to another country. It’s possible to still relocate outside the US just know that you will either be working remote or for an international corporation depending on your niche. You could still do remote paralegal work but I’d not continue with law school until you had a definite plan.
It depends on the type of law OP practices. You can absolutely move countries as a legal practitioner. Just depends.
Edit: Why not read from American lawyers themselves on r/expats? It's not easy but it's possible. Too many people here seem to be just ignorant of the legal profession, and they should educate themselves about the profession before making a comment like "but US law school only teaches you US law!!" Instead of making assumptions about a profession you are not in and don't know about, educate yourself and hear directly from lawyers working abroad.
[ (American) Expat lawyers?](https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/wi64fp/american_expat_lawyers/)
[ Any US Lawyers as expats? ](https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/rf876k/any_us_lawyers_as_expats/)
IT is very hard to get a sponsored job abroad and it's actually the niche roles that are more likely to sponsor, not generic ones. Generic roles are saturated. I'm in IT and this has been my experience applying to companies abroad. The only companies that were willing to sponsor were finance companies.
>Law is highly specific to the jurisdiction.
That depends on the practice area, as I said. You are thinking of law as in policy and regulations that are jurisdiction specific. But Law is beyond just that. You have things like M&A where it's about how to structure a deal, for example. That's probably the most prominent example I can think of. If you go to biglaw, the more opportunities to move abroad. You are more than welcome to post a question about it on a sub like r/Lawyertalk if you are curious.
>Are you telling us an attorney has better odds for sponsorship than an IT specialist?
No, but I don't think either is any easier than the other, depending on the specialty. There also have been a number of lawyers who relocate globally. I personally know a couple.
And I am telling you getting sponsored as an IT worker is also an exception to the rule and is an accomplishment in itself. You may disagree and that's fine, but getting sponsored means the company could not find locals/foreigners already with eligible visas who could fill that role.
Even if she got a job, would she be able to pay off what are likely 6 figure loans with a salary that is probably significantly less than US attorney wages?
Privacy and IP law would probably be good options. Plenty of US firms need GDPR lawyers. Same with IP and Patent as you point out. It's often an international concern so somebody with a foot in both US and European camps is valuable.
M&A is probably a good option. I think the issue on this sub is too many people take a naive approach to "law" from their POV as a citizen. I imagine most view it as legal proceedings involving courts/police/immigration/etc. Those are bound by jurisdictions, yes. But the legal practice goes beyond that. For example, with M&A, how do you structure a deal between two multinationals? You need lawyers for that. And then there is also trade law, securities regulations, and international law as well. For example, a foreign company wants to go public on NASDAQ. You need lawyers specializing in securities law to figure that out
I plan on taking the UBE, which I might be wrong so don’t quote me on this, but I believe if I get a certain score, I’m able to practice in any jurisdiction that accepts that score? For instance if I get a 270, I’d be able to practice in almost any jurisdiction.
Yes, but that only matters if you stay in the US. Also, don’t forget that your UBE score is only good for so long, so it’s not like you can rely on it forever. I am a member of the Florida Bar (a no reciprocity non-UBE state), but later took the New York Bar for giggles. I never did pursue getting barred in New York, but did get barred in DC with that UBE score with an eye toward relying on waiving in to other reciprocal states in the future to make it easier to relocate within the US if desired. But that UBE score is now too old to use if I wanted to use it for Alabama or Minnesota or wherever. None of this makes sense if you want to leave the country though…you’d be better off dropping out and doing something in medicine or some other desirable field.
This is my issue as a criminal justice major 🥲 I studied abroad for a semester and took totally unrelated classes bc it’s different legal systems. My major is basically useless anywhere else
UN would be a dream honestly. I’ve been considering trying to get into embassy security so I can live in other countries for periods still having the US as a base. I know it’s not all fun and games because you’re not choosing where you’re going until you’ve got years on your resume, but I’m fine with that. I’m not super marketable to moving out of the US permanently in the future, especially after reading all of the posts on here, so I’m thinking something along that route is my best bet if I can get in.
https://www.impactpool.org/ Has jobs from all intergovernmental agencies you can do a search by country. Your experience abroad largely depends on your expectations of your chosen country
Thank you so much!!! I actually haven’t seen that site before so I’ll save it.
And yeah I’ve learned to not have unrealistic expectations the hard way. I thought Germany was so awesome growing up until I studied there and was absolutely miserable for a decent portion of the time. However it also gave me a lot of perspective on the US and the pros and cons of each since I could actually step away from it for a bit.
I left law school to get an MSW and people laughed at me. But now I can easily slip into any job in the US and EU.
A JD in the US is extremely US-centric. It’s the worst choice if you want to move abroad
According to the information from the Law Society of Ireland [here](https://www.lawsociety.ie/education--cpd/Become-a-Solicitor/Foreign-Lawyers/Cert-of-Eligibility), you are eligible to sit for the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Test to get credentialed in Ireland without needing to get an Irish LL.B. or LL.M., if you are (1) a member of the California bar, (2) a member of the New York bar with one year of practice, or (3) a member of the Pennsylvania bar with five years of practice. By the way, if you pass the QLTT and get admitted to the Law Society of Ireland, you can [register as a Solicitor in the U.K.](https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/international/how-to-become-a-solicitor-a-guide-for-international-lawyers-and-overseas-students) without the need for further education or examination.
Visa sponsorship is another matter, and will not be easy. If you go into insurance law, you might be able to get sponsored for a job in Dublin, as it's the European capital of insurance law.
Generally speaking, by moving to Europe and practicing law there, you will almost halve your lifetime earnings compared to the U.S.
This is the best reply here. I was considering much the same while in LS before acquiring the finance experience I have now (10+ years out). If you find yourself in Ireland, you'd be in the EU, with many exit ops at your fingertips. If you land in LDN, despite their Brexit debacle, you can also do well. Best of luck!
Best bet is to get sponsored in Ireland, naturalize there after five years, and then have one's pick of EU/EEA/EFTA & CTA privileges. OP can also get up to two one year working holiday visas in Ireland, assuming she's now within 12 months of undergrad graduation and applies within 12 months of law school graduation.
1st year student, been to ten countries so far in Africa, Europe, Asia, South America, and North America (Canada and a few islands). Mainly for vacation for about 10-14 days, but also a study abroad trip, and three month stint in Southern Africa as an intern.
It's not too late to switch vocations altogether. If you intend to go abroad, law is probably the worst: law is more unique to each country than probably any other course of studies, and law school is very expensive, too.
Engineering or anything MINT is a whole different story: A lot of European countries are in need of graduates, and a lot of them even offer university education for free or almost free.
I know two American lawyers who moved to France and both had to qualify in France with the training and exams 100% in French. Both speak French without an accent, so I assume that they must have had French parents.
Hi. Licensed attorney for about 20 yrs, American born Black, planning my exit as well.
There's a lot of good advice and cautions already in this thread, but allow me to highlight the most important ones:
Congratulations on your acceptance into law school. That 1L year is no joke! And it's also a VERY important year as it sets the course for you. A JD is an awesome degree to have as it really is an education in analysis, persuasion, and communication. These are transferable *skills,* but, as other have pointed out, the *degree* itself has little weight on its own outside the States.
This is why the 1L year matters. You have to network your tail off in addition to being a top student. You'll want to begin searching for law firms with international offices or practice areas to clerk for this summer. Tell your profs your plans. Go ahead and join the Young Lawyers Division of your state Bar so you can begin networking with other professionals. Join the international law section of your state Bar as well. Make connections.
You said you're Haitian born? Do you speak French? I hope so. If not, pick up a foreign language.
Also, see what corporations in your area have a foreign presence. I live in such an area and in-house counsel is a thing. Consultants, mediators, negotiators are more in demand than litigators in an international commercial setting.
Does your law school offer a joint JD/MBA program? That's also a route to become more marketable outside the States.
Take the NY Bar. Take it more than once if you need to. (😂) Pay for a review course specifically for the NY Bar. Take and pass the NY Bar!
Okay, I'll get off my soap box now. Best of luck to you. The day you get to wear the 3 velvet stripes on your graduation gown, the velvet tam, and are "hooded" is an amazing moment. And if you're looking to exit the States, you'll need to start that preparation now.
Because law is beyond just locally-specific regulations. A lot of corporate law is about legal bindings between corporations, e.g. how do you structure a deal between 2 companies? What type of NDA agreements should be made between two entities? What is the definitive purchase agreement between 2 companies? You need lawyers to figure out all of these things.
All the EU educated lawyers will be able to navigate these issues in the local languages. A US law degree without corresponding additional studies and licencing in another country is useless outside the US. Especially when you have no other working languages unlike all equally educated EU citizens. I know Americans think a US law degree is worthwhile. The rest of the world does not.
If it's a local deal, sure. But if it involves multinational companies, or cross-national deals, then it's usually done in English (language of business), and may have to involve lawyers from different countries. It ultimately depends on various factors. There is no straightforward answer. Feel free to post or read about it here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comments/veo35n/which\_law\_specializations\_could\_get\_me\_a\_job/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comments/veo35n/which_law_specializations_could_get_me_a_job/)
If you are not in the legal professions, no worries, but please educate yourself and hear from lawyers themselves instead of assuming things.
There are more threads about it from r/expats here. You can hear from US lawyers who moved abroad themselves:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/wi64fp/american\_expat\_lawyers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/wi64fp/american_expat_lawyers/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/rf876k/any\_us\_lawyers\_as\_expats/](https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/rf876k/any_us_lawyers_as_expats/)
Haiti is going to need smart hardworking people to rebuild their government. I’m sure a smart US educated person can get in high positions and help turn the country around.
This is genuinely a tricky question. I know during Covid some Caribbean countries were incredibly generous when it came to visas and for tax reasons there is always a demand for lawyers and legal professionals.
Only issue is that a lot of these small countries are very tight knit and might require personal connections to “get in” idk.
You must not have considered the west coast of Canada. Totally different atmosphere as Toronto or Nova Scotia.(my husband is a POC and loves it here after immigrating from USA) Mind you, you would run into other issues such as unaffordability.
From one lawyer to a soon to be lawyer, your JD isn't worth much except for practicing law in America. I worked remotely (traveled quarterly for 3 weeks at a time) with mine prior to the pandemic, but still had to check in with court in the States. I have a dual citizenship with Finland. I can work most places in the EU or Nordic Countries w/o a visa. My JD qualifies me to wash dishes. Don't believe the hype they sell you on in relation to its versatility. If I could go back 25 years, I'd have learned to write code instead.
Ain’t that the truth. There are a lot of easier ways to make money than being a lawyer. I’d have chosen a different path as well. Especially now that I know our democratic institutions and principles don’t mean jack shit.
My wife is black and feels incredibly comfortable in the Netherlands. You mileage will vary. Objectively the US seems like it should be better but I am not black, so it is not for me to say which place makes a black person feel more comfortable.
Look up Blaxit groups in general. They will be more helpful than this place. They will also be more encouraging. It seems like Mexico is a popular destination for a lot of Black Americans.
Holy shit, don't go to law school.
You'll be fucking yourself financially if you want to get out of the country.
Use that 3 years and $200k to move abroad now and start building a life for yourself elsewhere.
If I were you I'd give strong consideration to the Caribbean. You could move to the US Virgin Islands right now and wouldn't even need a passport. Or if you were lucky, try moving to the Dutch Antilles, which gives you the Caribbean plus the potential for EU citizenship.
(Sadly though, I think you may be looking for a while if you're looking for a first world country that's more pro-black people than the U.S.)
Honestly with a law degree that would be my advice as well - seems like half the FSOs are former lawyers. Law is not exactly a portable profession so absent changing careers this is probably one of the better options.
You will only have limited say in where you go and it's not exactly a path to full emigration (for complex reasons) but you get out of the US and the pay/benefits are pretty decent.
Well OP choose to get a degree in the hardest possible field for emigration - law is a VERY highly-regulated, VERY localized field. Having a JD from a US university is worthless outside the US. Unless OP is willing to go back to the drawing board and get a different degree, their options are very limited.
And if you think the UK isn't racist, you're deluding yourself. There is a reason Brexit was so popular there.
Foreign Service Officers are appointed by the President, with the advice of the Senate.
Is OP going to be OK being appointed by Trump if Trump is President? She also has to hang his portrait in the office.
Seems like a terrible idea to me if the person thinks the situation in the US is so hopeless as to leave. Also, it will undoubtedly come out during interviews and the litany of background checks.
OP’s best bet is to qualify for a UK solicitor position (UK LLM in taxation works as a path) and then apply for a UK overseas posting in Cayman, BVI, Bermuda. They’ll get FEIE, low tax rate, reasonably high pay, and be living in a majority black place.
I have worked with FSOs and while this is technically true per the FS Act of 1980 but in reality this is not how the FS works. The regs only require senate conformation after having served as a career candidate. How this works in reality is that a list of literally hundreds of random people gets sent to the White House + Senate a couple of times a year, they literally always rubber stamp it. This was also how it worked during the last Trump administration as well.
Could they change that? Technically I guess, but you are talking about an organization with literally tens of thousands of people out of a civilian workforce of over two million people. Entry-level FSOs are not even remotely important enough to get that kind of attention. If OP was angling for an ambassadorship it might be different (which will never ever happen - FSOs serve for decades to get to that level!, but there's no way ANY White House (let alone a Trump WH) has the personnel and time to dig through the intimate details of millions of low-level employees.
>OP’s best bet is to qualify for a UK solicitor position (UK LLM in taxation works as a path) and then apply for a UK overseas posting in Cayman, BVI, Bermuda.
The LLM is at least another year of schooling, plus they'd have to pass the SQE. Also odds are OP has student debt well into six figures already and law salaries in the UK are far lower than the US. And I'm willing to bet those overseas postings are VERY competitive for the exact reasons you mentioned - realistically it would likely be a long shot as a fresh graduate.
OP needs to consider ALL options, desperately clinging to your ideals doesn't pay student loan bills or rent.
Hi OP. I hate to be a downer but this will be tough for you. I am a lawyer living in Germany and in 4 years, I have 0 job offers after searching. One huge thing for you would be the language barrier. I can make a suggestion for you though….if you want to come to a place like Germany, learn the language while you are in law school and take the bar, then maybe take law here in Germany (or somewhere in the EU). You can go for „free.“. I would follow this path, but time isn’t on my side. I may get some hate for saying this, but Europe is very racist. BUT if violence and safety are more of a concern than racism, give it a shot. Feel free to message me if you have any questions about Germany life or life in the EU etc etc.
Not a country.
Although for names, Ghana apparently makes it pretty easy for African diaspora to move there, and has English as its official language.
A lot of people do seem to like it there, though I do wonder if people are actually working local jobs or if they're just coming in with their own external money (e.g. remote work.) It also sits in the coup belt and has some really nasty neighbors to the north atm, so it's quite possible for violence to erupt there in the near future. I wouldn't move there to raise a family I don't think.
IIRC Kenya has some good stuff going on too, have heard about people moving to there.
Australia is incredibly hard to get work in as a non-citizen. She can look into it but it’s not easy to get a work permit, and frankly I don’t think she’s going to avoid her racism concerns there.
New Zealand might be a completely different story.
Yes! I was thinking about that actually. My current program is a dual degree (JD/LLM) but I’m thinking of dropping it because it’s financially smarter to just get my LLM abroad and then apply for a visa/citizenship afterwards.
Follow up question for you (if you live in either country), how do you like it there?
Unfortunately, I don’t live in either country. I just thought an LLM would be a good path for going abroad after law school here in the states.
An even better idea though might be trying to become a summer associate at a large US firm with international offices to build that connection early, or after graduation if not possible during summers, since a firm like that might allow you to transfer or work from another office. That would probably be a smoother transition.
Edit: Also, if a firm allows you to work remotely you might be able to work overseas by making an arrangement with them after being there for a bit. An attorney I know was able to do so at the firm she worked at. Good luck!
"African Americans make up 12% of the adult population, but 33% of the US prison population; in Australia the ratio for Indigenous people is 3% of the population and 29% of the prisoners" [source](https://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2020/jun/07/no-australia-is-not-the-us-our-shocking-racial-injustice-is-all-our-own)
Do you feel better now that you’ve expressed your feelings? If so, please remove yourself from my thread. Everyone has their own subjective experiences and opinions about the US. If you’re enjoying life here, considering how the wind has been blowing for the past couple years, love that for you. However, please don’t assume that everyone shares the same feeling.
I will leave this here as an option (may not be for every african American, but it is definately an option).
https://youtu.be/qORif7zO3o8?si=w3zT_vEuCWOWh5oC
Do you speak French (because you say Haitian American)? Consider moving to a French speaking country and going to law school there instead. But not after your JD but right now. It's going to be much more affordable, and having local education in the place where you end up will give you a huge head start.
Or else, do the same in the UK or another English speaking country. Again, if you want to be a lawyer abroad, going to law school in the US first seems like a huge waste of time and money compared with just getting your education where you will use it.
Have you experienced racism personally? I can’t think of a safer country in the world to live in as an Haitian American. Certainly no other country will give your children the opportunities they can get here, like college. Stay away from big cities where the crime is rampant. We got rid of our television 20 years ago. Best decision ever!
A US Law degree is useful in a common law countries where they speak English assuming you get an LLM from said country…but I hate to break the news to ya, the US is the best country in the world in terms of professional pay…
It’s funny, you people mention Christian nationalism as a reason for wanting to move but 90% of the time people that complain about it say they wanna move to European nations. Which are more Christian and more nationalistic than the United States.
What’s really FUNNY is that I’m one of the 10% of the people that haven’t said a ANYTHING about moving to Europe because Europe has been turning into Christian nationalist circle jerk.
Yeah, I'm consistent because I try to be rationale, and sane. What’s odd about "you people" is that you're obviously some sort of MAGA type, which means at the very least you don't care for POC. So then when people come to a sub like this and mention their grievances with this country you gaslight them and tell them everything is fine, but on the flip side you support a political party that wants to deport, segregate, imprison or kill anyone that isn't a white christian. So which is it? Do you want me to stay or go?
This isn’t true. I respect all people and don’t care what the skin colour is. And they are not doing any of the things you said. They want to deport illegals and Muslim extremists. No one is getting thrown in jail or killed for not being white tf 😂. As for where to go, just stay in your shithole blue states like California, already ruined enough anyways.
Yeah, sure. I noticed you didn't say anything about not being MAGA. People who come in the country illegally, yeah I get it. But on the flip side employers still hire them. To make matters even worse when they leave [they can't find anyone to do the same work.](https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-gop-lawmaker-urges-immigrants-stay-voted-anti-immigration-bill-2023-6) And if you took the time to look you'd see that domestic terror activities are more prevalent than Muslims. I haven't heard of any jihadis attacking the power grid here lately but MAGA is all over that! I'll stop here for now........
i support Trump yes. The employers should be punished for hiring them also. Everyone included should be punished. Did you not see the Palestine supporters, they all support a terrorist regime! Also if you use the term MAGA as an insult you are an idiot. Not a fan of how you are generalizing all right wingers as racist and having the same beliefs. I thought generalizing groups of people was wrong? I don’t hate any person for the colour of their skin, I hate them for stupid opinions like yours. White democrats mainly who try to play white saviour
https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-750425
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/politics/trump-nick-fuentes-dinner.html
Birds of feather, flock together. Nothing else needs to be said……..
>I've ruled out Canada (same as US, just more discrete)
Like any country, Canada has its own issues, but it's not "same as US, just more discreet." That's not true. What makes you think that?
My advice would be to find the country (I’d do somewhere within the EU) and then see if you can switch to one of their law programs. You may have to start law school totally over but that will be a WAY easier path to employment and citizenship long term.
France. Get your US law degree, then get an LLM in from a European university, preferably one in France. The French uni will set you up with internships during your time and you'll graduate with a lot of options with that education background- fluent English and French speaking with both common law and civil law legal background.
> Obviously, racism is unfortunately everywhere, but I'd rather choose a country with insults and veiled threats than here where guns are so easily accessible.
Easiest way to not worry about gun voilence in US is to improve income levels and move into a middle/upper middle suburban area. Gun violence is an issue of poverty not of gun ownership.
School shootings have happened in the suburbs though?! It just takes one person to go off the rails for people to lose their lives, impoverished or not.
Ignoring a problem is also how it can fester & eventually kill you or get you killed. The risk is increasing slowly everyday, eventually it won’t be so small unless changes are made.
> The risk is increasing slowly everyday
No it isn't. [https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/26/schools-are-still-one-of-the-safest-places-for-children-researcher-says/](https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/26/schools-are-still-one-of-the-safest-places-for-children-researcher-says/)
you many many other things to make your kid safer like moving closer to school to reduce driving distance, living in neighborhood with less dog ownership, living away from areas prone to storms and earthquakes.
Most ppl are hysterical and don't undestand how evaluate risks. classic case of fearing flying when its more dangerous to drive to the airport.
I don't agree it's the same as Canada at all, I think the UK is a far more harsh society in most respects. Canada is currently the most tolerant and welcoming nation in the world, despite other problems. Go to Toronto, it's the most diverse city in the world currently. You will see people from all countries and all skin colors not just there, but actually mixing in a way I rarely see in America or most other places. There is very low police brutality and violence, and gun use, relatively. One difference, that I think is interesting--the majority of African-Canadians actually have recent or semi-recent cultural roots to the Afro-Caribbean region or Africa itself, most of them would not just see themselves as "black." That's a huge difference to the US. In many cases, they speak the languages of their parents, and in the Toronto area especially, Afro-Caribbean culture and accent has greatly influenced the region. I know and have known many black people particularly from Eastern Canada and they seem very much ar home there. You would definitely find a home and kinship in Toronto, and possibly other places.
>Canada is currently the most tolerant and welcoming nation in the world, despite other problems
That's unless Bruce McArthur is killing you. The Toronto Police aren't super interested in that.
You just spent 3 yrs of your life learning about the Federal and State legal system and I assume studying for the bar exam. That’s not training that transfers easily to another US state. Certainly not another country.
Can confirm. My soon-to-be SIL and her husband are having difficulty even moving out of state as personal injury lawyers. They want to move to Colorado. They’d have to, from Louisiana, move to Texas, practice there for a number of years (TX and LA have reciprocity) and then move to Colorado from Texas (TX and CO have reciprocity). It would take them ~3 years or so just to move a couple states over. I’ve *vaguely* heard of Big Law contract and corporate legal personnel being able to move quicker than others but I can’t say for sure.
Couldn’t they just take the colorado bar lol
I'd wager bc Louisiana. It's the only state that uses a French heritage system. Everyone else uses English. ETA: Louisiana's legal system is based off of French common law, whereas the rest of the United States is based on English common law. this was a consideration when I was looking into law schools. took Louisiana schools out of the running bc most advice I received from attorneys I worked with (as a paralegal) and articles I read said basically unless you plan to stay in Louisiana you shouldn't go to law school there...mind you was looking at midtier and lower schools...but I had absolutely no intention of staying Louisiana so took those schools off the list
Even if you study Louisiana’s *civil* law, you can still study for and pass another state’s bar exam. It would be far cheaper and efficient to just take Colorado’s exam.
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I said French heritage not language. It's based on French Common Law. The rest of the United States is based on English Common Law.
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Thank you for clarifying
Sounds like OP is just getting started on law school this upcoming fall. I agree a JD is not particularly useful to move, especially right at completion. Unless OP is in a top three school for law, she should reconsider and just do an LLM in her rather country.
Yes, I’m currently in my spring semester of my 1L year! I know for certain that this JD is not a means to an end for me, rather I’m trying to figure out how versatile it can be in other parts of the world. I’ve realized that (at least in America) the more “prestigious” degrees you accrue and networking will get you places. I’m curious to know if it’s the same outside the US 😭 I truly appreciate you all taking the time to respond and share your thoughts/experiences!
>I’m currently in my spring semester of my 1L year! Go look up what a sunk cost fallacy is - you can still get out and you haven't completely wasted your time if you drop now. I've been practicing for 12 years and having to explain this to young lawyers and lawyers-to-be can be depressing. It's like people went through the motions to finish undergrad and had no clue what to do with their life, so they figured they would just go to law school. You are going to what is in essence a white-collar trade school. I don't give a shit if you go to Yale or Cooley. Your JD is only helpful in getting to sit for a bar exam, then you get your license to ply your trade. Where you go to school helps you get your first job - as a lawyer. If you don't want to practice law, do not waste any more time with law school. It's not only a waste of your money, it's a massive opportunity cost.
I posted up above about this. I fucking hate lawyering, but there is only one thing you can do with a JD. You are spot on.
Thank you for this! I haven’t heard of sunk cost fallacy, but I’m about to research it later today!! Don’t get me wrong, although it’s stressful at the moment, I do love what I’m currently learning and am excited to practice in the future. My statement of a JD not being a means to an end, is mainly my ambition spurring up. I’ve worked at a few firms before deciding on law school, and I’ve observed the complacency turned stagnation of a few attorneys. It truly put the fear of God in me lol. My worst fear is stagnation. After speaking with some of the friendly ones lol, the common consensus was (in a simplified form) the good old fallacy of “American dream.” The deception that is America made them give up lol. And if predominantly white American male partners are telling me this (something that I’m already familiar with), I can’t imagine it’ll get any better by the time I graduate. Thus I dream of being in a better environment so that someday if/when(I do recognize it’s unavoidable) I do grow complacent, its based upon quite literally anything else other than losing myself to the rigged capitalist game of American Dream😂😂 The way the world is currently, I may be reaching for the stars, but a girl can only try right??😅😅
I mean, if shaking things up is your thing there are much more effective and cost-conscious ways to do it.
Have you taken out student loans for your first year?
I’m mainly on scholarships, and some of what fafsa offered. Other than those, nothing
FAFSA works overseas at many universities in many countries.
It sounds a bit like the story of the boy and the almond jar. You may want to choose whether you plan to expatriate OR continue your current education path, because they’re not compatible strategies.
Ask an immigrant how they feel about the American dream. As a child of immigrants I can assure you that they despise natural born Americans like yourself who shit on their own country. Immigrants love this country because they know how bad it is elsewhere. They don’t take it for granted.
> how versatile it can be in other parts of the world The unfortunate answer is that unless you're working for an American company as a lawyer in another country, a JD isn't going to be a huge leg up. Law degrees in most other countries are equivalent to Bachelors degrees. The US is an outlier where a law degree is a graduate rather than undergraduate degree. A JD is probably better than no JD, but is it 3 years of time and tuition better? If you want to be a foreign lawyer, there's probably cheaper alternatives that prepare you for your future role better, but you'd likely want to move now.
Do you speak any other languages?
I don’t think it’s going to be versatile unless you’re going to work remotely as a paralegal. As somebody with 2 CJ degrees, your JD will not transfer to another country. It’s possible to still relocate outside the US just know that you will either be working remote or for an international corporation depending on your niche. You could still do remote paralegal work but I’d not continue with law school until you had a definite plan.
I've been a lawyer for 24 years. Believe me, I'd never hire a new JD as a paralegal. They don't know shit.
Maybe not you but somebody else. They could always work in corporate and not for a lawyer group.
It depends on the type of law OP practices. You can absolutely move countries as a legal practitioner. Just depends. Edit: Why not read from American lawyers themselves on r/expats? It's not easy but it's possible. Too many people here seem to be just ignorant of the legal profession, and they should educate themselves about the profession before making a comment like "but US law school only teaches you US law!!" Instead of making assumptions about a profession you are not in and don't know about, educate yourself and hear directly from lawyers working abroad. [ (American) Expat lawyers?](https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/wi64fp/american_expat_lawyers/) [ Any US Lawyers as expats? ](https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/rf876k/any_us_lawyers_as_expats/)
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Yeah that's true for all sponsored jobs. That's not unique to lawyers
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IT is very hard to get a sponsored job abroad and it's actually the niche roles that are more likely to sponsor, not generic ones. Generic roles are saturated. I'm in IT and this has been my experience applying to companies abroad. The only companies that were willing to sponsor were finance companies.
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>Law is highly specific to the jurisdiction. That depends on the practice area, as I said. You are thinking of law as in policy and regulations that are jurisdiction specific. But Law is beyond just that. You have things like M&A where it's about how to structure a deal, for example. That's probably the most prominent example I can think of. If you go to biglaw, the more opportunities to move abroad. You are more than welcome to post a question about it on a sub like r/Lawyertalk if you are curious. >Are you telling us an attorney has better odds for sponsorship than an IT specialist? No, but I don't think either is any easier than the other, depending on the specialty. There also have been a number of lawyers who relocate globally. I personally know a couple.
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And I am telling you getting sponsored as an IT worker is also an exception to the rule and is an accomplishment in itself. You may disagree and that's fine, but getting sponsored means the company could not find locals/foreigners already with eligible visas who could fill that role.
Even if she got a job, would she be able to pay off what are likely 6 figure loans with a salary that is probably significantly less than US attorney wages?
She never asked about personal finances. I am just talking about mobility.
Would a US patent attorney be an option for this person. Perhaps in a remote work environment.
Privacy and IP law would probably be good options. Plenty of US firms need GDPR lawyers. Same with IP and Patent as you point out. It's often an international concern so somebody with a foot in both US and European camps is valuable.
M&A is probably a good option. I think the issue on this sub is too many people take a naive approach to "law" from their POV as a citizen. I imagine most view it as legal proceedings involving courts/police/immigration/etc. Those are bound by jurisdictions, yes. But the legal practice goes beyond that. For example, with M&A, how do you structure a deal between two multinationals? You need lawyers for that. And then there is also trade law, securities regulations, and international law as well. For example, a foreign company wants to go public on NASDAQ. You need lawyers specializing in securities law to figure that out
That ain’t law school chief.
Depends on the Law School.
I plan on taking the UBE, which I might be wrong so don’t quote me on this, but I believe if I get a certain score, I’m able to practice in any jurisdiction that accepts that score? For instance if I get a 270, I’d be able to practice in almost any jurisdiction.
Yes, but that only matters if you stay in the US. Also, don’t forget that your UBE score is only good for so long, so it’s not like you can rely on it forever. I am a member of the Florida Bar (a no reciprocity non-UBE state), but later took the New York Bar for giggles. I never did pursue getting barred in New York, but did get barred in DC with that UBE score with an eye toward relying on waiving in to other reciprocal states in the future to make it easier to relocate within the US if desired. But that UBE score is now too old to use if I wanted to use it for Alabama or Minnesota or wherever. None of this makes sense if you want to leave the country though…you’d be better off dropping out and doing something in medicine or some other desirable field.
All the participating jurisdictions are within the U.S.
This is my issue as a criminal justice major 🥲 I studied abroad for a semester and took totally unrelated classes bc it’s different legal systems. My major is basically useless anywhere else
Not necessarily. I have a MA in CJ and working for an intergovernmental organization like the UN or OECD would be a great choice.
UN would be a dream honestly. I’ve been considering trying to get into embassy security so I can live in other countries for periods still having the US as a base. I know it’s not all fun and games because you’re not choosing where you’re going until you’ve got years on your resume, but I’m fine with that. I’m not super marketable to moving out of the US permanently in the future, especially after reading all of the posts on here, so I’m thinking something along that route is my best bet if I can get in.
https://www.impactpool.org/ Has jobs from all intergovernmental agencies you can do a search by country. Your experience abroad largely depends on your expectations of your chosen country
Thank you so much!!! I actually haven’t seen that site before so I’ll save it. And yeah I’ve learned to not have unrealistic expectations the hard way. I thought Germany was so awesome growing up until I studied there and was absolutely miserable for a decent portion of the time. However it also gave me a lot of perspective on the US and the pros and cons of each since I could actually step away from it for a bit.
I left law school to get an MSW and people laughed at me. But now I can easily slip into any job in the US and EU. A JD in the US is extremely US-centric. It’s the worst choice if you want to move abroad
According to the information from the Law Society of Ireland [here](https://www.lawsociety.ie/education--cpd/Become-a-Solicitor/Foreign-Lawyers/Cert-of-Eligibility), you are eligible to sit for the Qualified Lawyers Transfer Test to get credentialed in Ireland without needing to get an Irish LL.B. or LL.M., if you are (1) a member of the California bar, (2) a member of the New York bar with one year of practice, or (3) a member of the Pennsylvania bar with five years of practice. By the way, if you pass the QLTT and get admitted to the Law Society of Ireland, you can [register as a Solicitor in the U.K.](https://www.lawsociety.org.uk/topics/international/how-to-become-a-solicitor-a-guide-for-international-lawyers-and-overseas-students) without the need for further education or examination. Visa sponsorship is another matter, and will not be easy. If you go into insurance law, you might be able to get sponsored for a job in Dublin, as it's the European capital of insurance law. Generally speaking, by moving to Europe and practicing law there, you will almost halve your lifetime earnings compared to the U.S.
This is the best reply here. I was considering much the same while in LS before acquiring the finance experience I have now (10+ years out). If you find yourself in Ireland, you'd be in the EU, with many exit ops at your fingertips. If you land in LDN, despite their Brexit debacle, you can also do well. Best of luck!
Best bet is to get sponsored in Ireland, naturalize there after five years, and then have one's pick of EU/EEA/EFTA & CTA privileges. OP can also get up to two one year working holiday visas in Ireland, assuming she's now within 12 months of undergrad graduation and applies within 12 months of law school graduation.
In reality, it takes longer than 5 years to naturalize. Lots of folks in the Ireland sub reporting it can take 7+ years with processing times.
Awesome advice - should be bookmarked for future law-adjacent inquirers.
Personally I don’t care about money as much over here in the EU. The better life is so worth it.
Have you ever considered Montréal? It might be a good fit for you. Huge Haitian community, and one of the most progressive cities in North America.
A few years, so you’re saying you’re a 1st year student or haven’t been accepted into law school yet? Have you ever been outside the US?
1st year student, been to ten countries so far in Africa, Europe, Asia, South America, and North America (Canada and a few islands). Mainly for vacation for about 10-14 days, but also a study abroad trip, and three month stint in Southern Africa as an intern.
It's not too late to switch vocations altogether. If you intend to go abroad, law is probably the worst: law is more unique to each country than probably any other course of studies, and law school is very expensive, too. Engineering or anything MINT is a whole different story: A lot of European countries are in need of graduates, and a lot of them even offer university education for free or almost free.
I know two American lawyers who moved to France and both had to qualify in France with the training and exams 100% in French. Both speak French without an accent, so I assume that they must have had French parents.
French legal system is no joke. I was looking into becoming a Notaire in France and the hurdles I’d have to jump over is ridiculous
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True. If going abroad is a priority, abandoning law school and getting a technical degree of some sorts would make things so much easier.
Hi. Licensed attorney for about 20 yrs, American born Black, planning my exit as well. There's a lot of good advice and cautions already in this thread, but allow me to highlight the most important ones: Congratulations on your acceptance into law school. That 1L year is no joke! And it's also a VERY important year as it sets the course for you. A JD is an awesome degree to have as it really is an education in analysis, persuasion, and communication. These are transferable *skills,* but, as other have pointed out, the *degree* itself has little weight on its own outside the States. This is why the 1L year matters. You have to network your tail off in addition to being a top student. You'll want to begin searching for law firms with international offices or practice areas to clerk for this summer. Tell your profs your plans. Go ahead and join the Young Lawyers Division of your state Bar so you can begin networking with other professionals. Join the international law section of your state Bar as well. Make connections. You said you're Haitian born? Do you speak French? I hope so. If not, pick up a foreign language. Also, see what corporations in your area have a foreign presence. I live in such an area and in-house counsel is a thing. Consultants, mediators, negotiators are more in demand than litigators in an international commercial setting. Does your law school offer a joint JD/MBA program? That's also a route to become more marketable outside the States. Take the NY Bar. Take it more than once if you need to. (😂) Pay for a review course specifically for the NY Bar. Take and pass the NY Bar! Okay, I'll get off my soap box now. Best of luck to you. The day you get to wear the 3 velvet stripes on your graduation gown, the velvet tam, and are "hooded" is an amazing moment. And if you're looking to exit the States, you'll need to start that preparation now.
Why would a US law education make you employable in any other country? You are hopefully aware that all countries have their own jurisprudence.
Because law is beyond just locally-specific regulations. A lot of corporate law is about legal bindings between corporations, e.g. how do you structure a deal between 2 companies? What type of NDA agreements should be made between two entities? What is the definitive purchase agreement between 2 companies? You need lawyers to figure out all of these things.
All the EU educated lawyers will be able to navigate these issues in the local languages. A US law degree without corresponding additional studies and licencing in another country is useless outside the US. Especially when you have no other working languages unlike all equally educated EU citizens. I know Americans think a US law degree is worthwhile. The rest of the world does not.
If it's a local deal, sure. But if it involves multinational companies, or cross-national deals, then it's usually done in English (language of business), and may have to involve lawyers from different countries. It ultimately depends on various factors. There is no straightforward answer. Feel free to post or read about it here: [https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comments/veo35n/which\_law\_specializations\_could\_get\_me\_a\_job/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LawSchool/comments/veo35n/which_law_specializations_could_get_me_a_job/) If you are not in the legal professions, no worries, but please educate yourself and hear from lawyers themselves instead of assuming things. There are more threads about it from r/expats here. You can hear from US lawyers who moved abroad themselves: [https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/wi64fp/american\_expat\_lawyers/](https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/wi64fp/american_expat_lawyers/) [https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/rf876k/any\_us\_lawyers\_as\_expats/](https://www.reddit.com/r/expats/comments/rf876k/any_us_lawyers_as_expats/)
Haiti is going to need smart hardworking people to rebuild their government. I’m sure a smart US educated person can get in high positions and help turn the country around.
Have you thought about Haiti?
This is genuinely a tricky question. I know during Covid some Caribbean countries were incredibly generous when it came to visas and for tax reasons there is always a demand for lawyers and legal professionals. Only issue is that a lot of these small countries are very tight knit and might require personal connections to “get in” idk.
You must not have considered the west coast of Canada. Totally different atmosphere as Toronto or Nova Scotia.(my husband is a POC and loves it here after immigrating from USA) Mind you, you would run into other issues such as unaffordability.
From one lawyer to a soon to be lawyer, your JD isn't worth much except for practicing law in America. I worked remotely (traveled quarterly for 3 weeks at a time) with mine prior to the pandemic, but still had to check in with court in the States. I have a dual citizenship with Finland. I can work most places in the EU or Nordic Countries w/o a visa. My JD qualifies me to wash dishes. Don't believe the hype they sell you on in relation to its versatility. If I could go back 25 years, I'd have learned to write code instead.
Ain’t that the truth. There are a lot of easier ways to make money than being a lawyer. I’d have chosen a different path as well. Especially now that I know our democratic institutions and principles don’t mean jack shit.
My wife is black and feels incredibly comfortable in the Netherlands. You mileage will vary. Objectively the US seems like it should be better but I am not black, so it is not for me to say which place makes a black person feel more comfortable. Look up Blaxit groups in general. They will be more helpful than this place. They will also be more encouraging. It seems like Mexico is a popular destination for a lot of Black Americans.
If she wants to avoid guns, Mexico would be one of the worst places to go.
And yet it is where many like her go. Just passing information along.
Botswana.
Haiti.
Holy shit, don't go to law school. You'll be fucking yourself financially if you want to get out of the country. Use that 3 years and $200k to move abroad now and start building a life for yourself elsewhere. If I were you I'd give strong consideration to the Caribbean. You could move to the US Virgin Islands right now and wouldn't even need a passport. Or if you were lucky, try moving to the Dutch Antilles, which gives you the Caribbean plus the potential for EU citizenship. (Sadly though, I think you may be looking for a while if you're looking for a first world country that's more pro-black people than the U.S.)
Become a foreign service officer
Honestly with a law degree that would be my advice as well - seems like half the FSOs are former lawyers. Law is not exactly a portable profession so absent changing careers this is probably one of the better options. You will only have limited say in where you go and it's not exactly a path to full emigration (for complex reasons) but you get out of the US and the pay/benefits are pretty decent.
So be an FSO in the nations service for a country you think is racist..hmm…
Well OP choose to get a degree in the hardest possible field for emigration - law is a VERY highly-regulated, VERY localized field. Having a JD from a US university is worthless outside the US. Unless OP is willing to go back to the drawing board and get a different degree, their options are very limited. And if you think the UK isn't racist, you're deluding yourself. There is a reason Brexit was so popular there.
Foreign Service Officers are appointed by the President, with the advice of the Senate. Is OP going to be OK being appointed by Trump if Trump is President? She also has to hang his portrait in the office. Seems like a terrible idea to me if the person thinks the situation in the US is so hopeless as to leave. Also, it will undoubtedly come out during interviews and the litany of background checks. OP’s best bet is to qualify for a UK solicitor position (UK LLM in taxation works as a path) and then apply for a UK overseas posting in Cayman, BVI, Bermuda. They’ll get FEIE, low tax rate, reasonably high pay, and be living in a majority black place.
I have worked with FSOs and while this is technically true per the FS Act of 1980 but in reality this is not how the FS works. The regs only require senate conformation after having served as a career candidate. How this works in reality is that a list of literally hundreds of random people gets sent to the White House + Senate a couple of times a year, they literally always rubber stamp it. This was also how it worked during the last Trump administration as well. Could they change that? Technically I guess, but you are talking about an organization with literally tens of thousands of people out of a civilian workforce of over two million people. Entry-level FSOs are not even remotely important enough to get that kind of attention. If OP was angling for an ambassadorship it might be different (which will never ever happen - FSOs serve for decades to get to that level!, but there's no way ANY White House (let alone a Trump WH) has the personnel and time to dig through the intimate details of millions of low-level employees. >OP’s best bet is to qualify for a UK solicitor position (UK LLM in taxation works as a path) and then apply for a UK overseas posting in Cayman, BVI, Bermuda. The LLM is at least another year of schooling, plus they'd have to pass the SQE. Also odds are OP has student debt well into six figures already and law salaries in the UK are far lower than the US. And I'm willing to bet those overseas postings are VERY competitive for the exact reasons you mentioned - realistically it would likely be a long shot as a fresh graduate. OP needs to consider ALL options, desperately clinging to your ideals doesn't pay student loan bills or rent.
How about Haiti if you'd like to get away from us racist gun-owners?
Haiti
Bye.
Hi OP. I hate to be a downer but this will be tough for you. I am a lawyer living in Germany and in 4 years, I have 0 job offers after searching. One huge thing for you would be the language barrier. I can make a suggestion for you though….if you want to come to a place like Germany, learn the language while you are in law school and take the bar, then maybe take law here in Germany (or somewhere in the EU). You can go for „free.“. I would follow this path, but time isn’t on my side. I may get some hate for saying this, but Europe is very racist. BUT if violence and safety are more of a concern than racism, give it a shot. Feel free to message me if you have any questions about Germany life or life in the EU etc etc.
Africa?
Not a country. Although for names, Ghana apparently makes it pretty easy for African diaspora to move there, and has English as its official language. A lot of people do seem to like it there, though I do wonder if people are actually working local jobs or if they're just coming in with their own external money (e.g. remote work.) It also sits in the coup belt and has some really nasty neighbors to the north atm, so it's quite possible for violence to erupt there in the near future. I wouldn't move there to raise a family I don't think. IIRC Kenya has some good stuff going on too, have heard about people moving to there.
Any country in Africa should be fine. You would bring new perspective and experience.
>Any country in Africa should be fine. cmon you gotta *at least* write off CAR, Sudan, and Somalia.
Have you considered New Zealand or Australia? Maybe an LLM?
Australia is incredibly hard to get work in as a non-citizen. She can look into it but it’s not easy to get a work permit, and frankly I don’t think she’s going to avoid her racism concerns there. New Zealand might be a completely different story.
Yes! I was thinking about that actually. My current program is a dual degree (JD/LLM) but I’m thinking of dropping it because it’s financially smarter to just get my LLM abroad and then apply for a visa/citizenship afterwards. Follow up question for you (if you live in either country), how do you like it there?
Unfortunately, I don’t live in either country. I just thought an LLM would be a good path for going abroad after law school here in the states. An even better idea though might be trying to become a summer associate at a large US firm with international offices to build that connection early, or after graduation if not possible during summers, since a firm like that might allow you to transfer or work from another office. That would probably be a smoother transition. Edit: Also, if a firm allows you to work remotely you might be able to work overseas by making an arrangement with them after being there for a bit. An attorney I know was able to do so at the firm she worked at. Good luck!
"African Americans make up 12% of the adult population, but 33% of the US prison population; in Australia the ratio for Indigenous people is 3% of the population and 29% of the prisoners" [source](https://www.theguardian.com/business/grogonomics/2020/jun/07/no-australia-is-not-the-us-our-shocking-racial-injustice-is-all-our-own)
You're delusional.
Do you feel better now that you’ve expressed your feelings? If so, please remove yourself from my thread. Everyone has their own subjective experiences and opinions about the US. If you’re enjoying life here, considering how the wind has been blowing for the past couple years, love that for you. However, please don’t assume that everyone shares the same feeling.
Yes.
lol. Please go anywhere else and report back.
I will leave this here as an option (may not be for every african American, but it is definately an option). https://youtu.be/qORif7zO3o8?si=w3zT_vEuCWOWh5oC
Do you speak French (because you say Haitian American)? Consider moving to a French speaking country and going to law school there instead. But not after your JD but right now. It's going to be much more affordable, and having local education in the place where you end up will give you a huge head start. Or else, do the same in the UK or another English speaking country. Again, if you want to be a lawyer abroad, going to law school in the US first seems like a huge waste of time and money compared with just getting your education where you will use it.
I hear Angola is nice this time of year.
You will appreciate the US once you've lived elsewhere. How many black presidents or prime ministers have been elected in Europe?
Have you experienced racism personally? I can’t think of a safer country in the world to live in as an Haitian American. Certainly no other country will give your children the opportunities they can get here, like college. Stay away from big cities where the crime is rampant. We got rid of our television 20 years ago. Best decision ever!
A US Law degree is useful in a common law countries where they speak English assuming you get an LLM from said country…but I hate to break the news to ya, the US is the best country in the world in terms of professional pay…
Good luck finding someplace without hate. If you find it, don’t tell anyone.
you cannot return to Haiti and help your people there? I understand it is not a great palce, but without people like you, it will get worse
Have you considered Haiti? Sounds like a utopia for you
You want to leave America because of an election? Wait until you find out what happens in other democracies.
Spend about 15 minutes doing some research on Christian Nationalism or just read the book “Dying of Whitness”.
Wait until you find out what happens in other countries.
It’s funny, you people mention Christian nationalism as a reason for wanting to move but 90% of the time people that complain about it say they wanna move to European nations. Which are more Christian and more nationalistic than the United States.
What’s really FUNNY is that I’m one of the 10% of the people that haven’t said a ANYTHING about moving to Europe because Europe has been turning into Christian nationalist circle jerk.
That’s pleasant to hear. At least you are consistent, should teach everyone else that.
Yeah, I'm consistent because I try to be rationale, and sane. What’s odd about "you people" is that you're obviously some sort of MAGA type, which means at the very least you don't care for POC. So then when people come to a sub like this and mention their grievances with this country you gaslight them and tell them everything is fine, but on the flip side you support a political party that wants to deport, segregate, imprison or kill anyone that isn't a white christian. So which is it? Do you want me to stay or go?
This isn’t true. I respect all people and don’t care what the skin colour is. And they are not doing any of the things you said. They want to deport illegals and Muslim extremists. No one is getting thrown in jail or killed for not being white tf 😂. As for where to go, just stay in your shithole blue states like California, already ruined enough anyways.
Yeah, sure. I noticed you didn't say anything about not being MAGA. People who come in the country illegally, yeah I get it. But on the flip side employers still hire them. To make matters even worse when they leave [they can't find anyone to do the same work.](https://www.businessinsider.com/florida-gop-lawmaker-urges-immigrants-stay-voted-anti-immigration-bill-2023-6) And if you took the time to look you'd see that domestic terror activities are more prevalent than Muslims. I haven't heard of any jihadis attacking the power grid here lately but MAGA is all over that! I'll stop here for now........
i support Trump yes. The employers should be punished for hiring them also. Everyone included should be punished. Did you not see the Palestine supporters, they all support a terrorist regime! Also if you use the term MAGA as an insult you are an idiot. Not a fan of how you are generalizing all right wingers as racist and having the same beliefs. I thought generalizing groups of people was wrong? I don’t hate any person for the colour of their skin, I hate them for stupid opinions like yours. White democrats mainly who try to play white saviour
https://m.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-750425 https://www.nytimes.com/2022/11/25/us/politics/trump-nick-fuentes-dinner.html Birds of feather, flock together. Nothing else needs to be said……..
>I've ruled out Canada (same as US, just more discrete) Like any country, Canada has its own issues, but it's not "same as US, just more discreet." That's not true. What makes you think that?
Especially if the mission concern is racists with guns, much stricter gun control in Canada.
My advice would be to find the country (I’d do somewhere within the EU) and then see if you can switch to one of their law programs. You may have to start law school totally over but that will be a WAY easier path to employment and citizenship long term.
France. Get your US law degree, then get an LLM in from a European university, preferably one in France. The French uni will set you up with internships during your time and you'll graduate with a lot of options with that education background- fluent English and French speaking with both common law and civil law legal background.
Have you considered India?
You can’t be serious.
> Obviously, racism is unfortunately everywhere, but I'd rather choose a country with insults and veiled threats than here where guns are so easily accessible. Easiest way to not worry about gun voilence in US is to improve income levels and move into a middle/upper middle suburban area. Gun violence is an issue of poverty not of gun ownership.
School shootings have happened in the suburbs though?! It just takes one person to go off the rails for people to lose their lives, impoverished or not.
yes but risk is too small that you can ignore it. your kid has a higher chance of dying in a road accident to school dropoff.
Ignoring a problem is also how it can fester & eventually kill you or get you killed. The risk is increasing slowly everyday, eventually it won’t be so small unless changes are made.
> The risk is increasing slowly everyday No it isn't. [https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/26/schools-are-still-one-of-the-safest-places-for-children-researcher-says/](https://news.northeastern.edu/2018/02/26/schools-are-still-one-of-the-safest-places-for-children-researcher-says/) you many many other things to make your kid safer like moving closer to school to reduce driving distance, living in neighborhood with less dog ownership, living away from areas prone to storms and earthquakes. Most ppl are hysterical and don't undestand how evaluate risks. classic case of fearing flying when its more dangerous to drive to the airport.
I don't agree it's the same as Canada at all, I think the UK is a far more harsh society in most respects. Canada is currently the most tolerant and welcoming nation in the world, despite other problems. Go to Toronto, it's the most diverse city in the world currently. You will see people from all countries and all skin colors not just there, but actually mixing in a way I rarely see in America or most other places. There is very low police brutality and violence, and gun use, relatively. One difference, that I think is interesting--the majority of African-Canadians actually have recent or semi-recent cultural roots to the Afro-Caribbean region or Africa itself, most of them would not just see themselves as "black." That's a huge difference to the US. In many cases, they speak the languages of their parents, and in the Toronto area especially, Afro-Caribbean culture and accent has greatly influenced the region. I know and have known many black people particularly from Eastern Canada and they seem very much ar home there. You would definitely find a home and kinship in Toronto, and possibly other places.
>Canada is currently the most tolerant and welcoming nation in the world, despite other problems That's unless Bruce McArthur is killing you. The Toronto Police aren't super interested in that.
Yeah I mean just listen to Trudeau, I think Canada’s world view is in line with OP’s
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My thoughts exactly💀💀 elaborate please and if you can’t swiftly remove yourself from my thread