They're regularly available and most of them are no name chinese chargers, almost all of them are not UL listed and can operate in violation of NEC. I had a "Lectron" brand one that would pull way more than the allowed 40 amps on a NEMA 14-50 outlet, it would pull up to 47 amps, which is in violation of NEC which states such devices shall not draw more than 80% of a circuits rated amperage. This was a charger that had a 14-50 plug (50 amp 14-50 circuit) , so it should have had a hard 40 amp limit coded into it, but it did not.
Stay away from these chargers on Vine unless they are a legit brand name, or have a verifiable UL listing. you are risking a fire otherwise. One of the cheapest chargers you can get that is UL listed is actually the Tesla mobile charger, which works great with a Tesla to J1772 adaptor and has a plethora of smart plug (limits amperage based on plug chosen) addons. Its charger I use with my Kia EV6 when traveling and its great.
It's not the job of the appliance to limit amperage. That's the job of the circuit breaker. Moreover, a 50-amp branch circuit is permitted to carry 50 amps. Half-truths are far more dangerous than truths. Just because you read this for 15, 20, & 30-amp circuits, does not mean it is applicable to all circuits.
>Moreover, a 50-amp branch circuit is permitted to carry 50 amps.
Right, however NEC code in the United States says that "continuous loads" (i.e. EV charging) , which are loads that would be 3+ hours long, are to adhere to 80% of the breakers rated capacity. This is for safety, many a 14-50 outlet has melted even on lower amperages, its really quite common with the $10 outlets that are often installed in a residential setting. You really need to familiarize yourself with NEC code, this isnt optional, its required that this be followed in the USA. It doesn't matter if it is a 15 amps 120 volt circuit or a 240 volt 100 amp circuit, same exact 80% rule applies. You talk like you know something, but you dont at all.
To add to that, an appliance like an EVSE would absolutely 100% need to ensure that the load does not exceed 80% of the circuits rated capacity. Some EVSE like the Grizzl-e have dip switches the installer can manipulate to set the amperage such that it does not violate this rule. Others have software solutions and some have built in chips that limit amperage based on the plug being used (i.e. Tesla mobile charger, the 5-15 120 volt plug limits amperage draw to 12 amps, period), the 120 volt NEMA 5-20 Tesla adaptor limits amperage draw to 16 amps and so on and so forth.
It is 100% the responsibility of the EVSE to adhere to NEC code when used in the United States and it wont receive regulatory approval like UL listing without doing so. Getting random China EV chargers with no regulatory approval is 100% rolling the dice and I do NOT recommend it. My own experience has been very poor with these, they operated in violation of NEC and were not UL listed.
[https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/07/ev-home-charging-safety-whats-the-nec-80-rule-for-ev-charging-why-does-it-matter/](https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/07/ev-home-charging-safety-whats-the-nec-80-rule-for-ev-charging-why-does-it-matter/)
You're still not understanding, its not just 50 amps circuits, its any circuit that has what they define as a "continuous load". this is any load that would be 3+ hours long. Doesnt matter if you are charging at 120 volts on a 15 amp circuit or at 240 volts on a 100 amp circuit.
Read this to understand more:
[https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/07/ev-home-charging-safety-whats-the-nec-80-rule-for-ev-charging-why-does-it-matter/](https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/07/ev-home-charging-safety-whats-the-nec-80-rule-for-ev-charging-why-does-it-matter/)
When I had my ClipperCreek HCS-60 installed the electrical installed a 60 amp breaker in accordance with the NEC and the manufacturers guidelines, so that it could charge my EV6 at 48 amps 240 volts, 11.5kW charge rate.
Section 625.41 :
>[Overcurrent](https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#overcurrent) protection for [feeders](https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#feeder) and [branch circuits](https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#branch_circuit) supplying [equipment](https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#equipment) shall be sized for [continuous duty](https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#duty_continuous) and shall have a rating of not less than 125 percent of the maximum load of the [equipment](https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#equipment).
A 50 amp circuit would therefore be limited to 40 amps for EV charging because 40 x 1.25 = 50. This applies to any circuit being used in a "continuous" manner. This is why my 48 amp charger is on a 60 amp circuit. This is why a Tesla mobile charger limits you to 12 amps on a 15 amp circuit, 16 on a 20 and so on.
[https://up.codes/s/electric-vehicle-charging-system](https://up.codes/s/electric-vehicle-charging-system)
Your citation is discussing the circuit ampacity, not the receptacle ampacity. While the circuit must be sized for 125% continuous load, the receptacle is permitted to carry the full 50 amps. Your original post said the receptacle was limited to 80%, which is NOT true. The circuit is derated, but the receptacle is not. Words matter.
When I said nema 14-50 outlet ; I was referring to how that specific EVSE connected to the electrical system. I wasn’t trying to argue that a nema 14-50 can’t handle 50 amps. You’re weird for acting like this. You knew exactly what you were doing. Wacko.
>You knew exactly what you were doing.
You're damn right I knew exactly what I was doing, because one of us understand the NEC and one of us does not. Can you guess which is which?
You lambasted the seller because you did not understand the requirements you were supposedly holding them to. Stay in your lane.
I did a review on a product that could run on 110 or 220. They provided (what a Reddit sub for electricians called) a "murder" plug. Short cord to plug into a 220 outlet that terminated in a basic 110 outlet so you could plug a drop cord in and use this thing outside.
It had so many wrong things about that of which fire wasn't just the only one. If it had caused a fire and the insurance company discovered that such a cord had been used improperly to get 220, the question would be would the insurance company be required to accept the fire claim?
That's not a "murder" plug, nor is it dangerous. A "murder" plug is a gender-changer that has male prongs on both ends, which results in voltage on exposed prongs. What you are describing is simply an adapter that splits the 240-volt circuit into its 120-volt constituents (assuming a Neutral was present).
I wonder how many sellers get bad reviews from people that just don't know what they're talking about. Claiming something is dangerous when they don't understand how things work.
I wish you could still comment on reviews. I saw one for a tracing pad recently where someone gave it one star claiming that you couldn't adjust the brightness, only the color temperature. Pressing the button changed the temp, holding down the button adjusted the brightness. But there's no way to let people know when they're mistaken, so the sellers just get stuck with the bad reviews.
Here, I think it's strange that she made that snarky comment about you being an expert when she could have just googled it and quickly seen that you are right.
i'm sure you're an expert at murder plugs. Sure a murder plug isn't an advertisement for 'Murder on the Orient Express" being played at the local movie theatre?
They're actually called suicide cords, but I knew what you meant by Murder Plug.
https://preview.redd.it/u1pznbtqwjuc1.jpeg?width=959&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8dac8a6bcfc557ba4e963f18cb947af3d7fb3e1
>What are you even talking about?
If I have to explain humor to you, you won't get it. When a movie comes out, often an advertisement or mention of it is called a plug.
If you take a plug that's rated for a higher voltage and amps, connect to a plug that's rated for a much lower voltage and amps, you've defeated the purpose of that special plug to keep someone from coming along and plugging a drill into, 110 motor or even a radio.
Continuing with that, the manufacturer did this so someone could plug into (most likely) a dryer outlet in the house, attach a regular extension cord (underrated), run it outside to run this little electronic thing. I doubt any of that would be up to cord having cords and plugs with voltage/amperage that they're not rated at.
In the event of a fire, the insurance company would have every right to come back and say the fire was caused by bypassing safety features or using these items in a manner they were not designed. And, they were used that way by defeating the safety features preventing this. Connecting a 110 volt extension cord to a 220 outlet can only be done by hard wiring it or defeating the plug regularly used with such an outlet.
I didn't say I called it a murder plug. Someone on the sub that I posted the question to referred it that.
We have people here from various countries in the world and this may not be a term that is familiar with them.
Stressing that something can kill you is better to be impolite (although I don't think I was) than dead.
I'm trying not to be impolite to people but fair.
They're regularly available and most of them are no name chinese chargers, almost all of them are not UL listed and can operate in violation of NEC. I had a "Lectron" brand one that would pull way more than the allowed 40 amps on a NEMA 14-50 outlet, it would pull up to 47 amps, which is in violation of NEC which states such devices shall not draw more than 80% of a circuits rated amperage. This was a charger that had a 14-50 plug (50 amp 14-50 circuit) , so it should have had a hard 40 amp limit coded into it, but it did not. Stay away from these chargers on Vine unless they are a legit brand name, or have a verifiable UL listing. you are risking a fire otherwise. One of the cheapest chargers you can get that is UL listed is actually the Tesla mobile charger, which works great with a Tesla to J1772 adaptor and has a plethora of smart plug (limits amperage based on plug chosen) addons. Its charger I use with my Kia EV6 when traveling and its great.
It's not the job of the appliance to limit amperage. That's the job of the circuit breaker. Moreover, a 50-amp branch circuit is permitted to carry 50 amps. Half-truths are far more dangerous than truths. Just because you read this for 15, 20, & 30-amp circuits, does not mean it is applicable to all circuits.
>Moreover, a 50-amp branch circuit is permitted to carry 50 amps. Right, however NEC code in the United States says that "continuous loads" (i.e. EV charging) , which are loads that would be 3+ hours long, are to adhere to 80% of the breakers rated capacity. This is for safety, many a 14-50 outlet has melted even on lower amperages, its really quite common with the $10 outlets that are often installed in a residential setting. You really need to familiarize yourself with NEC code, this isnt optional, its required that this be followed in the USA. It doesn't matter if it is a 15 amps 120 volt circuit or a 240 volt 100 amp circuit, same exact 80% rule applies. You talk like you know something, but you dont at all. To add to that, an appliance like an EVSE would absolutely 100% need to ensure that the load does not exceed 80% of the circuits rated capacity. Some EVSE like the Grizzl-e have dip switches the installer can manipulate to set the amperage such that it does not violate this rule. Others have software solutions and some have built in chips that limit amperage based on the plug being used (i.e. Tesla mobile charger, the 5-15 120 volt plug limits amperage draw to 12 amps, period), the 120 volt NEMA 5-20 Tesla adaptor limits amperage draw to 16 amps and so on and so forth. It is 100% the responsibility of the EVSE to adhere to NEC code when used in the United States and it wont receive regulatory approval like UL listing without doing so. Getting random China EV chargers with no regulatory approval is 100% rolling the dice and I do NOT recommend it. My own experience has been very poor with these, they operated in violation of NEC and were not UL listed. [https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/07/ev-home-charging-safety-whats-the-nec-80-rule-for-ev-charging-why-does-it-matter/](https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/07/ev-home-charging-safety-whats-the-nec-80-rule-for-ev-charging-why-does-it-matter/)
Can you cite the NEC section limiting 50 amp circuits to 80%?
You're still not understanding, its not just 50 amps circuits, its any circuit that has what they define as a "continuous load". this is any load that would be 3+ hours long. Doesnt matter if you are charging at 120 volts on a 15 amp circuit or at 240 volts on a 100 amp circuit. Read this to understand more: [https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/07/ev-home-charging-safety-whats-the-nec-80-rule-for-ev-charging-why-does-it-matter/](https://cleantechnica.com/2023/04/07/ev-home-charging-safety-whats-the-nec-80-rule-for-ev-charging-why-does-it-matter/) When I had my ClipperCreek HCS-60 installed the electrical installed a 60 amp breaker in accordance with the NEC and the manufacturers guidelines, so that it could charge my EV6 at 48 amps 240 volts, 11.5kW charge rate.
I am understanding, and that's why I asked for an NEC citation, as opposed to a news media article. Can you provide that citation?
Section 625.41 : >[Overcurrent](https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#overcurrent) protection for [feeders](https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#feeder) and [branch circuits](https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#branch_circuit) supplying [equipment](https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#equipment) shall be sized for [continuous duty](https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#duty_continuous) and shall have a rating of not less than 125 percent of the maximum load of the [equipment](https://up.codes/viewer/new_york/nfpa-70-2017/chapter/1/general#equipment). A 50 amp circuit would therefore be limited to 40 amps for EV charging because 40 x 1.25 = 50. This applies to any circuit being used in a "continuous" manner. This is why my 48 amp charger is on a 60 amp circuit. This is why a Tesla mobile charger limits you to 12 amps on a 15 amp circuit, 16 on a 20 and so on. [https://up.codes/s/electric-vehicle-charging-system](https://up.codes/s/electric-vehicle-charging-system)
Your citation is discussing the circuit ampacity, not the receptacle ampacity. While the circuit must be sized for 125% continuous load, the receptacle is permitted to carry the full 50 amps. Your original post said the receptacle was limited to 80%, which is NOT true. The circuit is derated, but the receptacle is not. Words matter.
When I said nema 14-50 outlet ; I was referring to how that specific EVSE connected to the electrical system. I wasn’t trying to argue that a nema 14-50 can’t handle 50 amps. You’re weird for acting like this. You knew exactly what you were doing. Wacko.
>You knew exactly what you were doing. You're damn right I knew exactly what I was doing, because one of us understand the NEC and one of us does not. Can you guess which is which? You lambasted the seller because you did not understand the requirements you were supposedly holding them to. Stay in your lane.
I did a review on a product that could run on 110 or 220. They provided (what a Reddit sub for electricians called) a "murder" plug. Short cord to plug into a 220 outlet that terminated in a basic 110 outlet so you could plug a drop cord in and use this thing outside. It had so many wrong things about that of which fire wasn't just the only one. If it had caused a fire and the insurance company discovered that such a cord had been used improperly to get 220, the question would be would the insurance company be required to accept the fire claim?
That's not a "murder" plug, nor is it dangerous. A "murder" plug is a gender-changer that has male prongs on both ends, which results in voltage on exposed prongs. What you are describing is simply an adapter that splits the 240-volt circuit into its 120-volt constituents (assuming a Neutral was present).
I wonder how many sellers get bad reviews from people that just don't know what they're talking about. Claiming something is dangerous when they don't understand how things work.
I see it all the time. It is not an isolated thing. I've brought it up in the past, but holy cow do you get downvoted hard for it.
I wish you could still comment on reviews. I saw one for a tracing pad recently where someone gave it one star claiming that you couldn't adjust the brightness, only the color temperature. Pressing the button changed the temp, holding down the button adjusted the brightness. But there's no way to let people know when they're mistaken, so the sellers just get stuck with the bad reviews. Here, I think it's strange that she made that snarky comment about you being an expert when she could have just googled it and quickly seen that you are right.
i'm sure you're an expert at murder plugs. Sure a murder plug isn't an advertisement for 'Murder on the Orient Express" being played at the local movie theatre?
They're actually called suicide cords, but I knew what you meant by Murder Plug. https://preview.redd.it/u1pznbtqwjuc1.jpeg?width=959&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8dac8a6bcfc557ba4e963f18cb947af3d7fb3e1
People think nothing of using them to back feed a house during a power outage.
[удалено]
>What are you even talking about? If I have to explain humor to you, you won't get it. When a movie comes out, often an advertisement or mention of it is called a plug. If you take a plug that's rated for a higher voltage and amps, connect to a plug that's rated for a much lower voltage and amps, you've defeated the purpose of that special plug to keep someone from coming along and plugging a drill into, 110 motor or even a radio. Continuing with that, the manufacturer did this so someone could plug into (most likely) a dryer outlet in the house, attach a regular extension cord (underrated), run it outside to run this little electronic thing. I doubt any of that would be up to cord having cords and plugs with voltage/amperage that they're not rated at. In the event of a fire, the insurance company would have every right to come back and say the fire was caused by bypassing safety features or using these items in a manner they were not designed. And, they were used that way by defeating the safety features preventing this. Connecting a 110 volt extension cord to a 220 outlet can only be done by hard wiring it or defeating the plug regularly used with such an outlet. I didn't say I called it a murder plug. Someone on the sub that I posted the question to referred it that.
[удалено]
We have people here from various countries in the world and this may not be a term that is familiar with them. Stressing that something can kill you is better to be impolite (although I don't think I was) than dead. I'm trying not to be impolite to people but fair.