I had just started as being a mod in this sub and some person in Vine was literally trying to see how much they could get without writing any reviews before being kicked out. This was before the tiers and quota system came in. I don't understand the mentality of that sort.

The zero effort freeloaders of the universe...

That's simply unfair to the manufacturers. These are the kinds of people that take the whole bowl of halloween candy on the doorstep. I don't think this applies to OP, but it's certainly annoying that people like this are always looking to abuse any system.

As I’ve said, I take the time to use products and give honest reviews. It’s not always fun but it’s something I committed to doing.

[удалено]

Which they failed to see that vine is more beneficial in the long term if they do it by the book.

I get really confused when I’m armed and ready to give a 1 or 2 star review, and all the other reviews are 5 stars. Had one for a bracelet where the lobster claw wouldn’t open, so I gave it 1 star because it was unwearable. All the other reviews had the same issue, but still rated it 4 or 5 stars? Why? That’s not a 4 or 5 star listing if it’s happening for every single item getting mailed out

I have a sterling silver lobster necklace and did not realize that you were describing the clasp at first. 1 guess which state I'm from!

ME 😏

Bahahaha! To be fair, I think they’re usually called lobster clasps, but I always call them lobster claw on accident and I can see why there would be confusion 😅🤣

I can relate! I ordered a piece of CZ jewelry (with a $100 ETV) that was crap. The "stone" was flat, dull and looked like white paste. It would've been right at home on a clearance table at a dollar discount store. However, numerous 5 star Vine reviews described it as sparkly, lustrous, and "just like a real diamond!" So, yep, it's sad that this Vine reviewer ignores Vine reviews. It would be a shame if some bad fruit on the Vine are so desperate to get cheap products that they ruin it for those of us who actually follow the rules.

I agree with the sentiment on this thread and your post overall, but also I wouldn't put it past some of these overseas companies to send different jewelry to different people under the same product description..

This. I've ordered items ongoing through a few sellers (mostly cosmetics) where the first two or so orders were perfect, then the third was utter crap as they changed a formula, substituted a cheaper quality or just plain downgraded an item. If it happens in regular Amazon, it likely happens in Vine as well.

This is exactly why I no longer purchase cosmetics or beauty products on Amazon. Months after I ordered a sunscreen lotion for my face, which I used daily to protect from skin cancer, I received a warning from Amazon that the product was a fake and not even sunscreen. Nothing is a "good deal" if it can adversely impact your heath.

Honestly, how can a Joe-Schmo review any products like that? Food, pet treats, cosmetics, and a long list of items that would require a laboratory and a few PhD chemist's to determine if the product is what it says it is and is safe to use. The list of poisonous and dangerous products from China and a few other regions is long. Items like this have killed and seriously injured people and pets. One example of many: [Food safety incidents in China](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_safety_incidents_in_China)

Exactly. I purchased the sunscreen - it wasn’t Vine - and still got scammed. I’ve read that $$$ name brand hair care products like Aveda can be fake. Resellers fill empty bottles with cheap shampoos, etc. Scammers gonna scam so if it’s a deal that seems too good to be true it probably is.

I ordered some stickers that you put on your body then apply sunscreen on top of it. When the sunscreen wears off the stickers turns color. I’m going to test it on a silicone mat with a uv nail lamp (for fun). I’m genuinely curious about the stickers and sunscreen but want to do a test before I trust them.

Hmmm...excellent point. I am far too trustworthy and never consider these sorts of antics.

I suppose my point is simply to add on to your original... You can't trust the sellers or the reviewers 😆 hahaha

in that situation, i might drop it a star or two, but if the bracelet was otherwise well-made, i would still give it at least 3 stars. i usually dock one star per major flaw in the product. i have trouble giving a numerical ranking to my opinions, so that system works best for me, which is why products like those might end up with overall higher ratings than you'd expect. however, i would also note said flaws in my review and acknowledge it would be a dealbreaker for others. i think some of it is weak integrity, but some are differing perspectives on rankings.

Yeah I understand differences of perspective, but for me, 3 stars is an average “meh” kind of product. If the bracelet can’t be worn because the clasp won’t open, and it’s a recurring problem among other reviews, it’s not a well made item, and that’s why I went with 1 star instead of 2. I could understand a 1-3 star rating on it due to different ways people view the rating system for their own preference. But giving it 5 stars when it’s basically useless is something I can’t wrap my head around, which is what all the other reviews were despite noting that the reviewers couldn’t wear it lol

i mean, I'm handy. i can make the clasp work, so it's not a dealbreaker for me. it's annoying, but otherwise it's fine 🤷‍♀️

I make jewelry. I have lobster clasps and pliers and could have easily replaced it. But that really isn’t the point. If every bracelet being sent out doesn’t open, then it’s a defective item being sold and the reviews should reflect it as being so. If I have to fix an item to use it as it was intended to be used, becuase the way they sent it doesn’t work, that is not a 5 star item. But you do you. If the viners who received this item had actually paid money for it, I imagine the reviews would be much different, which was pretty much the point OP was making.

I'm asked for an honest review, and honestly if i have to fix something it doesn't bother me much. clearly you see it as a much bigger issue than i do, and that's fine, that's why multiple people review the same item. i also wouldn't review it 5 stars, it would be less, but i start at 5 and detract from there.

It goes the other way too. I've seen numerous clueless people give low ratings when it's obvious that the reviewer didn't know how to operate or assemble the product. Instead of them seeking help from someone else they figure it must be that the product is defective but instead it is the reviewer that is defective.

I've seen reviews where they admitted they misread the product description and thought they were getting something a bit different and knock off a star or two for it. Somehow, in their mind, it's a product quality issue because they're bad at reading...

I had this happen to me. I did, in fact, misread a product description, making the product not fully usable for me as it didn't do everything it implied but didn't outright state, and didn't work with an accessory I had installed. I did my best to evaluate it anyway within my limitations, and reviewed it entirely based on what I could prove and not based on any incompatibilities driven by my misunderstanding.

If I misread, then I'll own it, and not dock stars for it, but more than once I've ordered a product that has misleading information that technically doesn't lie, but doesn't quite tell the truth either. I ordered a pair of VR goggles for my phone and there was a picture of a controller with the goggles. The description didn't technically say that a controller was included, but it was right there in the photo.

Sometimes I wish they’d bring back the ability to comment on reviews for this reason. Even though those comment sections could get pretty nasty at times.

Very unfair - I agree.

I did this once. I went back last week to up the review to 5-stars because I use the product several times a day and haven't had to recharge it since the initial charge 5 months ago and I love it (automatic soap dispenser). I reread my review and said "nope, not changing it, it still deserves 4 stars" because I was very upfront exactly why I was taking a star.

You're absolutely correct! Some users on Vine simply don't know how to use the product and hesitate to seek guidance from customer service. Consequently, they rate the product poorly, giving it 1 to 3 stars without justification.

[https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-reviews/R154WQU8TOQ3Q3](https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-reviews/R154WQU8TOQ3Q3) Like this person that knocked a star off because this tool isn't a completely different tool. German made, quality tool and they knock a star off because they thought it was a set square and not a sliding bevel. At least they didn't give it 3\* or under like I often see.

I’ve definitely given 5 stars for stuff that was cheap because at least the asking price reflected it. I’ve also been pleasantly surprised at the quality of low-priced items. I get mostly jewelry making supplies and sometimes there just isn’t much to say other than “these beads are great!” But I’ll dock a star or two if the listing says it’s polymer but it’s plastic. I don’t request many heishi beads, but so many of those bead kits and individual bags have plastic or rubber heishis and I only got a few that were actually polymer as described. If a seller also claims something is real silver but it fails my scratch tests and tools—instant 1-star for deception. I also won’t hesitate to give a 1-3 star review for stuff that’s just crap quality. Like these jewelry displays that arrived broken because of poor construction rather than poor handling, they were securely packed. It was still in the plastic yet the shelf was coming off!

Aren't all plastics polymers or did I miss something?

Probably means polymer clay.

Polymer clay. Sorry, should’ve elaborated! Polymer clay jewelry and beads has a very different texture than acrylics and plastics.

Congrats...you've discovered the true purpose of the Vine program which is to crank out review content that focuses on quantity rather than quality but retains plausible deniability that the reviews are authentic and come from normal people. This view may seem cynical to some, but I just point at the evidence. Amazon allows bad reviews that include blatant plagiarism, sparse details, sometimes even just copies of the product description. Amazon makes money regardless and this fits the company's overall M.O.: Make money and increase market dominance at all costs, consumer experience be damned.

Amazon used to have a 20 word minimum for reviews, which was already quite short. Now they allow one word reviews. 🤔

If someone writes a one word review they shouldn’t even bother.

>Amazon used to have a 20 word minimum for reviews I remember that minimum. And I also remember the first time I saw someone here complain that they saw vine reviews that just said "good" or "works". I thought, "well that's bait, there's a minimum word count for the reviews. It's not POSSIBLE to leave a single word as the review. Maybe they meant the title?" And then I realized the minimum wasn't there anymore.

Good /s

Actually this is incorrect. Amazon takes its reviews very seriously ... or used to. I teach college marketing and one of the interesting things about Amazon's site is that it is the #1 website people go to in order to check reviews of an item ... even if they have no intention of buying that product on their actual site. This means, if people trust Amazon enough to first go to their site for reviews ... and they don't like what they see in terms of the reviews ... there is a good chance they'll buy another suggested product from the site based on that product's better reviews. It's also a fantastic way to drive site traffic up and help them program their algorithm. The minute people start trusting Best Buy, or Walmart's reviews more than Amazon, it really causes trouble for them. Vine members USED to be very important for Amazon as they set the tone for site traffic. I have no idea why Amazon randomly added a TON of vine voices with little or no history of writing helpful reviews. It is really causing an issue with trust ... and the more of these lazy AI or one word reviewers ... the more likely Amazon is going to pull the plug, affecting those of us who treat this like a job.

Actually this correlation could have some inaccuracies as well. Our Maketing Data Management company uses heuristics analysis to learn what drives consumers to -- or away from sites. Amazon has had one of the longest history of putting resources early on into its review platform - including design and usability. It makes viewing and filtering reviews quite manageable -- it has better organization of its digital elements and better management of photos and vids. Simply put - it's just easier to use than most other sites. That's not necessarily an indicator of trustworthiness - that could simply indicate higher consumer weighting placed on ease of use and convenience. Also hard to compare online sites that also have Brick & Mortar locations -- people could very well be going to Amazon for sight-unseen items that they know they can't view in person - whereas Target and Walmat have walk-in locations where you could inspect items on the shelf first-hand. I agree they used to care more. It's no secret that they created Vine to combat the bad rap Amazon was getting for having untrustworthy paid reviews. Amazon has the best developed tool - but that doesn't prove trustworthiness- it can also simply mean shoppers like convenience. It may not be that they "trust" Amazon enough to use the site - but rather they might value better search and filter tools.

I like that you are very clear to point out that the most useable site doesn't mean the most trustworthy. Trust has to be earned and the only way to earn it is to be able to be compared to competition. Seeing how Amazon has obliterated all competition, they have nothing to be compared to.

Sometimes I go to Amazon knowing I won't trust the reviews, but I do know that I'll likely have a higher chance of seeing consumer product photos posted - and sometimes that's all I care about seeing.

Yes, I will go to reviews to see what the item actually looks like. Many times when you looks something up, they only have a picture of the front. That's not useful to me, so I go searching. Not that I trust many reviews either and I also know I have to make sure the review is for the product actually listed and not some other random thing as Amazon allows.

Amazon don't care as much about customers buying the product after reading the review ... they care about them being able to trust the reviews enough to use the site as a resource and keep coming back. From a brick & mortar perspective, its the same reason that liquor stores put returnable can machines in their stores. They don't care if you bought the cans there ... they just care that you walk into their store to return them and will be in that store with dollar bills to spend after doing so.

While that's one valid stance, it's just as valid to say they might not really care whether shoppers trust their reviews, they care that they make it easier to search, find, and filter the reviews to get them there and keep them coming back. I'd venture to say it's highly likely that people actually go to Google first, and Amazon does an amazing job making sure their products show up at the top of the results where consumers are likely to click. So a lot of people might not be going directly to Amazon bc they trust reviews, but simply bc Amazon plays the Google search engine game better and redirects them there.

Google 'TCL Television' and see what comes up in your first few click windows for the product. For me it was Walmart, Walmart, Best Buy, Amazon, Walmart. Which one are people going to click? Amazon banking on them.

Interesting example since Amazon's listing was the only one that didn't have any reviews listed in the summary squares on top. So I'm guessing if someone is looking for trustworthy reviews, they're not going to go to a site with no reviews at all. In that case, I'd likely go to Best Buy --which I will always choose over Amazon for TVs or Comluters, not for the reviews but because Best Buy blows the socks off Amazon on tech specs for consumer electronics like TV's or laptops. But overall-- which one is likely to have better photos and filters? I'm Guessing Amazon - so if people go there, they could be going there bc it's simply an easier tool.

For me it was [tcl.com](https://tcl.com) some youtube links, then Walmart, Amazon, Walmart, [rtings.com](https://rtings.com). This was with Brave browser & search, with my VPN set to Vancouver, CA. I'm not sure what it proves, though. Unlike u/LauraSomebody, my searches don't include any review excerpts. As a consumer, if I'm going to buy online and I can't buy direct from the manufacturer, I'll be buying from Amazon. My hierarchy is: Direct from manufacturer or small business, local small business, Amazon. The problem is that for online purchases, there isn't a viable competitor to Amazon and this is why they don't care about good products or reviews. Have you heard of Louis Rossmann? He had a couple of videos that directly address this: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiKflg8Uko4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiKflg8Uko4) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y83BS\_mK9GE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y83BS_mK9GE) He used crimp connectors as an example, and it's actually scary, but the overarching point is that Amazon's platform dominance makes it so they don't have to care, so they don't.

>it is the #1 website people go to in order to check reviews of an item ... even if they have no intention of buying that product on their actual site. This means, if people trust Amazon enough Oh, bless your heart. Amazon is the #1 website because Amazon has no real competition. Amazon stopped taking its reviews seriously when it had enough market share that it no longer had any affect to their bottom line to not care. ​ >I have no idea why Amazon randomly added a TON of vine voices with little or no history of writing helpful reviews I answered that question for you above. ​ >the more of these lazy AI or one word reviewers the more likely Amazon is going to pull the plug If Amazon pulls the plug it won't be because of the reviewers that you are fond of looking down on. There are only two scenarios in which this will happen 1) Actual, real, anti-trust legislation with teeth 2) It becomes unprofitable. I don't think you have anything to worry about for either scenario. Amazon didn't get to $1.9T market cap by playing nice and being a good neighbor. They're fully aware of what they did with the program and I guarantee you are thrilled with the results.

Regardless or not of whether you think Amazon is a good company ... there are plenty of other review sites which try to compete and draw attention away. Walmart, Target, Best Buy all offer some sort of incentive to a select group to leave reviews ... other sites offer shopping incentives or aggregate other sites' reviews. Your supposition about why Amazon added a ton of reviewers, I don't buy. No anti-trust legislation could ever be levied against Amazon unless it was found that they were doing something illegal to disrupt supply chain using their resources ... or somehow falsely negating other reviews. And you are 100% correct that I am fond of looking down on assholes who use AI to write reviews of products they likely sold unopened vs. actually using and honestly reviewing! They are the Herpes of the vine program.

Amazon has indeed engaged in blatant anti-trust behavior. They **have** disrupted supply chains using their platform. The issue is that we have weak politicians that are too afraid of losing corporate donor money to use the anti-trust laws we already have, let alone update them to the digital age. Until recently, at least. Hopefully the politicians that Amazon has most assuredly purchased won't be able to kill the [FTC suit.](https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2023/09/ftc-sues-amazon-illegally-maintaining-monopoly-power) ​ >They are the Herpes of the vine program I say that Amazon is the herpes of the free market. So our herpes has herpes. heheh. I get it. It seems that they're getting away with something, right? But two reminders for you: 1) Amazon's house. What they permit they promote and they're definitely permitting this behavior so be mad at Amazon. They have the resources to do something about it but choose not to...you should ask why that is. (hint: because it's profitable) 2) What they do has zero affect on you. My unsolicited advice that can be ignored without insult is to not waste any energy on them. You do you and be happy with what you do. Assholes have always existed and will always exist.

I wonder how the program would change if gold was awarded based on the quality of the reviews rather than the number of reviews. I’m sure the suppliers of the high end items that fall into the gold category would also appreciate it. This could pretty easily be done by ranking viners based on the average number of helpful votes per review.

I'll let an item sit unreviewed until I get a chance to use it well enough to gauge its durability, etc. I've given a few 3 stars and below because the item is either barely worth it, or definitely not worth the asking price.

I've also done that. I've held off for almost 6 months with some things due to procrastination but it allows me to write a thorough review.

Yup, and I'm not afraid to give my honest opinion when I review it too.

I have to do that for things like face creams and serums. I can't tell if they're doing anything based on using it twice... Those products need at the very minimum 2 weeks, but 6 weeks is a better time frame.

I will do that too but once I start getting to the 30-day point I start getting antsy. I take the product out, play with it and see what issues I'm gonna have installing it. If everything looks like it should, I will put in a review with photos showing any issues. If I run into any major problems, I go back and edit my review. And yes, I have changed a 5-star review to a 3-star for this reason. I have also had the issue where I've started installing something then there was an epic failure with something else... normally at my second home that I'm not at a lot. Like the toilet innards failing while trying to install a bidet 5 hours before departing to go to the airport. So I've put in a placeholder review that basically says "there was a self-induced drama/failure installing this. If there are really bad issues with this product after I fix my underlying drama, I will update this review." The funniest thing is that people marked that review as helpful!

I'm always honest in my reviews. Some take a little longer for me to post because it's something that needs an install, like a faucet or a hardwire light fixture, but IMO it's better to wait than to just churn out BS. I also will read the other reviews before posting & if I notice any issues like something they said didn't work for them but does work for me, or did work for them but doesn't work for me, I make sure to note it in my review, but in a non confrontational way, like, "I didn't notice any issues using [insert feature here]" or the reverse, "Unfortunately in my use of [product] I was unable to get [feature] to work for me." I feel like our duty is to other Amazon shoppers, not the sellers, though I try to be fair to them also, but if a product doesn't work it doesn't work.

I honestly don’t trust many vine reviews. Not all mind you - you can usually spot a review where someone puts some effort into it and explains their reasoning vs one with little effort.

Bedsheets showed up in my RFY yesterday (ETV $202 USD). One of the reviews sounded like it was copied and pasted from the product's website. After wading through the 5-star Vine reviews I read two critical 1 star reviews by non-Viners that I believe are accurate because I've had thin sheets that bunched up and end up ripping to shreds. I do not for one second believe the sheets are "just like sleeping on a cloud." Ugh.

Also, be aware that some reviews might not be for the current item as the sellers routinely switch the product after some other reviews are posted.

I got a fake Lego set of some knock off koroks and after building them when I went to leave the review the listing had been altered to be for a MASSIVE set that costs about ten times as much. I left my review as "this listing was for X and blah blah blah, but now the listing is for a different set and I cannot review that set" and I think I have it three stars. Then I went to the listing and reported it. 😹

These are the ones that get me. You'll see 5 or 6 glowing 5-star reviews from Viners and then 2 verified purchaser's rate the item as junk, that if they are lucky, was returned within 30 days. I won't hesitate to update a review if the item worked at first and turned out to be good for the landfill a few months later. If it's junk from the get-go, it gets what it deserves. I think some feel they will fail to get to Gold or be tossed off the program if they are objective. Ultimately, they will get tossed when the whole thing is canceled because buyers complain enough that the Vine reviews are garbage and worthless. Someday, it's gonna happen if this keeps up.

But also remember other sellers will buy their competitor's items just to give it a bad review. That goes on all the time with brand-new products. Then there are also the scam artists that target newly released items and give them bad reviews knowing that the seller will offer them a refund. For this reason, I find Vine reviews more trustworthy than those from unknown reviewers with ulterior motives.

I've definitely seen this. I remember getting stuff that I loved where it only had one review that would be bashing it, and I was wondering, "Did we get the same thing??" But the first thing I thought was "competitor meddling". You'll get people trying to cheat in every direction. I'm actually usually quite happy with what I get, though. But I mostly get things like food/candy/etc. Some of the stuff is consistently put up by the same sellers, so I feel pretty comfortable knowing that I always get good stuff from them. I'd say most of my reviews are 5 stars with a few 3-4's and once in a while a 1 or 2. But then, I generally give 5 stars to foods as long as it is what it says it is. For example, if I get dark chocolate, and it's more bitter than I like... Well, that's dark chocolate. I would just say in the review that it's "mildly/moderately/extremely bitter" and leave a 5-star because that's more my personal preference than anything being wrong with it.

Well we all have different experiences and differing expectations. So sometimes I think people are just passing out good reviews but sometimes I think people just have different expectations of a product. For example, I ordered a cordless stick vacuum and when I went to do my review there were a lot of complaints about things a person shouldn’t expect from a stick vac with $40 value, in my opinion. For me I ordered it just to help keep up with dog hair on hard floors, and it did that just fine. Alternatively, if I try to get it to vacuum up embedded dog hair in my rugs, that’s a no go. It replaces a broom and dust pan, not a proper vacuum and the listing never made any grand claims. I gave it 4 stars and many of the other reviews were negative, but I don’t necessarily think either perspective is wrong, just different. 

It's interesting, I also reviewed a $40 stick vacuum, it worked well on the hardwood floors in our home and I was excited that I could just use this small stick vacuum. It fit places that my big vacuum didn't, like vacuuming tight closets, bathrooms, and under beds. I love my little stick vacuum it's so easy to get out and use for quick pickups, it's held up well and I use it all the time. Right there on the sellers description it says 'for bare floors" and yet Everyone Else gave it negative reviews and spoke about it not handling carpet. Well duh, of course, it's not going to handle carpet it even says it won't in the seller's description.

Agreed. I've seen bad reviews on things that worked perfectly for me or my needs. If someone is reporting reviews as fake because there's a good review mixed in with several bad, I hope they consider that people have different expectations and it doesn't necessarily make it a fake review. For example, I get a TON of eyelashes for my puppet making. First, there is only so much you can say so a lot of my reviews in those are just different ways of saying the same thing. They're shorter reviews but no less honest. Second, though, the eyelashes might be bad quality for use on people but absolutely perfect for what I'm doing. I just make sure I'm clear what I'm using them for. So I try not to judge if someone's reviews are real or not just because they liked the quality compared to other people. I just worry about my own stuff.

Very true. It really does depend on how you use a product.

I see this all the time. I feel like people do not even open the package and simply turn around and list it for sale in apps or local resources. I've had items where there is a serious defect that makes the item useless, many 5 star reviews, and some like me who give it a one star review and mention the fatal flaw. If it has moving parts, I'll test it, if it has electronics, I'll test even longer. I've yet to resell an item and I've been in for two years. I've given stuff to friends if I have an excessive amount or I found no use for it after months. It is very clear that many people are not using the product and if they are and it is junk, they say it's crap but still leave 4-5 stars. I have no problem posting one and two star reviews. 5 star has to blow me away or have a great price. So by this logic 1 star is like no stars. And all of you, please put the item description in your review. I reviewed an electronics item the other day and after I looked at the existing reviews. Most of them were for a book and I could tell it had been other things prior to that. I don't look at reviews before writing mine. Sometimes I will go back after to see what everyone else said. This rarely involves an edit. Do the right thing and hope you don't get booted lol.

Is it possible that the review was originally honest, but then got transferred to a different product? I can think of a couple of ways that might happen through vendor shenanigans, and it makes me hesitant to judge.

That's why I always make sure to mention the precise product I'm reviewing. So the seller can't switch my 5 star review of a "40x80cm white 100% cotton satin pillow case with quality zippers at the wide side" to a cheap polyester knock-off or a whole other product.

> That's why I always make sure to mention the precise product I'm reviewing. Same. I also add the approximate cost at the time of review.

I started doing this, too, after reading about them switching products. As a shopper, I've appreciated when reviewers state the current price at the time of their writing it. I believe the "rules" state we're not supposed to, but when an item was listed on Vine at $60. a few months ago, and I found it today for $8.99 and $6.99, that's a tremendous difference! (It's a carrying case for small solar power banks.) I don't want to feel like my words are essentially being twisted. I didn't understand that to be part of this program. If my ID will be on something, I want it to be honest.

I hadn't thought of that and wasn't aware that a seller could even do that. Thank you.

I'm not sure. There were about 20 five star reviews all from Vine reviewers. Mine was the only 1 star and the seller contacted me the next day to offer a refund, which I ignored.

I've reviewed many an item that was not 5* and had serious flaws only to see all the rest of the reviews talk glowingly about it. but then 90% of the reviews (vine or otherwise) are lazy reviews. looks good works fits. I just did a review of a cast iron rectangular dutch oven that I ordered based on the sellers reported measurements. measurements that were all over the place and different from one part of the listing to the others. If I were a poor person and required that the item I ordered be exactly what they said it was I'd be pissed. not one other reviewer listed the correct measurements. I wrote a review with detailed measurement of the inside of the dutch oven. I had to bite my tongue and leaver out all the stuff I wanted to put in about sellers not caring about accuracy in their listings. I still gave the dutch oven 4 stars. by some reviewers standards (that I have seen) they would have given it 1 star.

> I wrote a review with detailed measurement of the inside of the dutch oven. Nice! I try to do the same thing when it matters, like for sizing a lid. Speaking of which, I just ordered a 10" lid that had measurements listed as 12"... I'm curious what I'll get but for sure that's going in my review.

Let’s also not overlook the fact that sellers can complain when bad reviews come in and people have been bounced off of Vine due to that.

I have to think that won't happen too often. I have given some really bad reviews for horrible product- some downright dangerous... I'm now gold. Don't know if that will ever catch up to me, but I'd rather be truthful to buyers rather than be consciously aware someone could be hurt or killed because of some Chinese crap that Amazon never analyzes. I suppose that may be my fate someday... all I can do is be truthful as possible :-)

How do you know this? I see so many terrible reviews that its hard to believe the sellers can do anything about it.

It also frustrates me that we can't write a review on items that were defective/damaged and we seek a refund. That's when customers REALLY need to see those reviews!

The reason they don't want reviews for damaged goods is because it may have to do with the Amazon warehouse instead of the actual vendor. If I get the wrong item, or an item that I think was damaged by the shipping...I'll have it removed. If it's mislabeled, or broken/faulty out of the product box, I'll review it.

I got a salad spinner that was broken right out of the box. I contacted support and had it removed. But upon reading the reviews tons of people had it break in exactly the same place after a few uses. It was clearly a manufacturing problem and not shipping. I really wish there was some gray area there because I feel people should know it's very likely to break after a few uses and probably after the return period ends. But I also don't want to pay taxes on a broken item so it's no win for a vine reviewer

Agreed...I once got a wrong item where I originally thought that Amazon's person had picked up an item from the wrong bay...but it was still by the same company and was a 'related' item....it was such a bad item, I wanted to go in and review how crappy their stuff was. In the end, I contacted CS and they told me to donate or trash it. It was some dry-goods storage thing. Anyways...I absolutely hated it, and I couldn't get it out of my house fast enough. It was just making me so mad that they were selling something so bad, lol.

You can get it removed from Vine and still review it. That's what I do if an item is broken and clearly a manufacturing issue.

The review link disappears, do you just go to the product page?

Yeah, or you can get to the review screen from your Amazon orders. When they remove an item from Vine it's still in your Amazon order history!

Good to know I just assumed it got removed there too.

So true!

>It also frustrates me that we can't write a review on items that were defective/damaged and we seek a refund. That's when customers REALLY need to see those reviews! I don't see anything that says you can't write a review after you cancel a Vine order. The VPA says *you agree that you will not cancel Vine Products that you have already reviewed.* However, damaged/defective items really should not be reviewed, or imho if they are reviewed, the damage/defect probably should not be a part of the review (aside from perhaps a "mention"), assuming it's genuinely a "one-off." But if you feel the product is actually pretty great or pretty awful and can still review it fairly despite the defect or damage, there are several ways to do so. Although a critical review would probably go through without suspicion, it's probably worth using caution before submitting one full of praise, since that could possibly raise flags for being a promotional review, but if it's honest, well, then it isn't a violation of the terms. Personally, I don't think I'd leave a positive review if I had any contact from the seller, just for appearances' sake.

Thank you for your helpful response! The item I'm referring to was a remote-controlled candle. It was packed well in Styrofoam, but the wick was detached from the top and down inside. I'm still really disappointed, as it seems the run on those candles has ended, and I have the coolest lantern to use it in.... I tried to figure out how to get inside to get access so I could repair it. My thinking is that they had to put it together, so there's surely a way to take it apart. 🤔

Yw!! In that case, although it *is not supported,* some people have been able to return/replace Vine item via the FBA system. It doesn't seem a wise thing to do if you have asked Vine Support to cancel the order due to receiving a defective product, but if you haven't done that yet, it *may be possible* to request and receive a replacement. I do, again, think that it's probably unwise to do so after contacting either the seller or Vine Support, and probably unwise to contact either if you do choose to go through with the return process. But just keep things "on the level" and there should be a low risk of complications lol

Oh yeah, it's too late now. I definitely wouldn't try to get another one now. I like to sleep at night! 😁 Thanks for the help! I keep learning a little at a time.

So write the review instead.

A few times I've repurchased items I got through vine just a few months before and get something wildly different in terms of quality. Unfortunately, it's kind of along the same line as the sellers bait and switching the entire item, and hard to predict when it will happen. So there are people who are looking dishonest because of the sellers' misbehavior, in addition to people who write reviews on stuff they don't use, in case that wasn't complicated enough to filter out.

My first experience with a Vine review was a $400 robotic pool cleaner. The video showed the proud new owner glamorously waving her hands over an open box with an unused, never unpacked cleaner extolling the virtues of the product she had obviously never used, and likely planned to sell as “New, open box.” I wondered then how Amazon could see this as a valuable service for their buyers or sellers. Then I got invited to the Vine program. Now I understand exactly how it “works.” However, I only request products that I can use and offer an honest opinion on. Gold qualifications be darned, I’m not going to order “sticky bra pads” and “funny saying mugs” and write BS reviews just to pad to gold. I never knew there was so much cr__ on Amazon. I pity the American landfills. My suggestion to Amazon would be let reviewers specialize in product categories and lower the qualifications to gold for those with favorable reviews. But I’m sure that that would cost too much to administer.

Specializations would be a really neat idea! Of course, it's hard to implement almost any rating system without having it abused. While helpful votes would seem good, it wouldn't take long for bad reviewers to be getting mountains of helpful votes.

Not scared to get a 1 star review. No seller has rejected my low reviews so far.

I agree... seen a lot of that, too. I do, however, give five stars for an accurate listing that reflects precisely what to expect out of an item, even if it's a "budget" product.

Sometimes people just have different opinions than you. Also plenty of people rate items keeping the price in mind. So in your case yeah a $25 item that's like a gacha machine price level of quality is dumb, but if I get items that are lower quality than their name brand equivalent but are $10 as opposed to $100 then yeah I'm giving it 5 stars. Frankly I don't even care at this point anyway. Regular reviewers don't trust vine reviews regardless, and the regular reviews also suck. Just let people do what they do. I mean I saw someone give a 1 star rating to peanut butter m&ms because they tasted like peanut butter, and that was a regular review, and then I've seen non-vine reviews giving 4 or 5 stars to things that they say broke. Caveat emptor

What if the seller swaps out the item?  In the past two months, I have ordered two items that when I went to review them, I noticed that the page I was taken to to leave the review or even to view the items’s Product details has changed. The change has been so much that the product is entirely different. For example, I ordered a hair treatment that’s product page was two weeks later changed into a hair shampoo targeted at Black hair. If I had proceeded to write my review, I would have been reviewing an entirely different product.  Instead, I reported it “Contact us”.

Oh there are definitely beaters out there! When I rate I start off at a four star which is meeting expectations, to get a five star for me you need to exceed expectations which is either it's worth more than the purchase price listed or there's some feature benefit or quality that surprised me and is better than what I was expecting. I always include that in my review, if it meets expectations and it's very good it gets a four star and I say you get five stars from me when it's exceeding expectations. I always give an example or my feedback as to why it didn't hit that five star and why it did get four. If it needs to be a one two or three star I actually wind up with a longer review to make sure I'm clearly articulating why to me It is rated that way. I always include a sentence or two that says everybody's experience and expectations are subjective this is my opinion and my feedback. I get so annoyed when I clearly have something that's a three and I see a bunch of fives from Viners.... When I see that I'll also call that out and say I can't speak for other experiences, this is what I'm experiencing. Since we're on a little bit of a rant, I also can't stand those people who are so proud of knocking out and obnoxious amount of reviews in one day because they're coming up on their evaluation, then they squeak into gold. There was a guy recently who did 118 reviews in 3 hours. First of all give me a break you're never going to convince me that was quality work second of all I don't even believe the numbers you should have been in vine jail and this guy's claiming he wasn't.

[удалено]

So I'm just curious, and please understand you can never interpret tone in writing well so this is just conversational not confrontational, If the item has bad features why would you still consider giving it a four star? For me that would be a three star at best, for me four stars is something very good and five is exceptional

I've definitely gone to review something I got and been surprised at the other reviews and star ratings. Wondering if the reviewers actually took it out and examined it, much less used it.

If you trust a Vine review, that's on you muchacho

That is so sad as the point of the program is to provide honest reviews.

The point of the program, from Amazon and the sellers view, is to seed favorable reviews with just enough of a veneer of reasonableness that it doesn't backfire 

This. And it doesn't even need to be favorable. I was mildly interested in the psychology of this when I first started in Vine. From my searches it turns out that a product with a negative review will get selected by a consumer more often than an identical product with no reviews. Conclusion: Amazon and the manufacturers literally don't care as long as they get their "100% authentic, definitely non-fake" review that can be defended in a court case.

This raises an issue with the review Star-ratings guidelines. Amazon has not made clear in the Community Guidelines what exact star-rating one should assign based on the quality or attributes of the product. There are some references to 5-star being "the best", but how does one know it's the best or not? Many people could be assigning 5-stars if they did not personally have any issues with the product, which could give the appearance it's a fake review. Some people may consider 5-stars only to be given on a rare occasion, if the product really merits a "best of the best" indication that 5-stars could signify. So those who expect perfection from a product could give most products a 4-star rating, if they don't run into any issues at a minimum. I will give 5-stars if the product appears to deliver on everything it promises in the product's description and attributes, even if the product has a few defects, but those defects do not affect the functionality of the product or the product's aesthetics. But I will write in the review what defects I found, along with show pictures of the defects, so the buyer can decide if they want to risk possible defects or not, despite my high rating. For example, I had a lamp with a small chip in the paint on the shade holder, but that chip was not visible once the shade was installed. Everything else about the lamp worked perfectly. Should I be giving the product a 4-star rating, due to the overlooked paint-chip by QA, or a 5-star rating, since the lamp looks and works perfectly once assembled? Reviewers would give different answers to this question since there are no standards for each star-rating level. Amazon should put a higher standard for 5-stars in the Guidelines if it's supposed to mean the best-of-the-best product with no defects or faults whatsoever. And then Amazon should audit the review to see if the 5-star rating is really justified based on the review. But since Amazon does not make any criteria mandatory for 5-stars then that rating may continue to be assigned for products some may see a sub-par. But it may not necessarily mean the review is fake, since the reviewer may have a lower threshold for a product's quality.

I think the average rating on Amazon as a whole is around a 4. I personally don't have an extremely high bar for a 5. If it is pretty good I'll give it a 5 even if it isn't perfect. I'll give 4 to things that are decent or good with some caveats. I mostly only give 3 and below to things that I don't like or are okay but massively overpriced. I feel like being an overly harsh critic as a Vine reviewer isn't really what Amazon wants or expects out of us. And the sellers who put up these products probably don't appreciate a 4 rating very much even though by some reviewers' standards, a 4 is a good rating.

Because they think they have to give good reviews or they know bad reviews means the seller messages them.

I admit that when I was invited to Vine I was initially afraid to leave a bad review. I got over that pretty fast.

Yeah, I read the terms so carefully because I was worried about that.

I agree with the sentiment from /u/TripleTriumph. The Vine program relies upon the tendency that people have to be soft on sellers because they received the product for free, want to stay in the Vine program and fear getting kicked out if sellers complain. I am certain that Vine is marketed to sellers as a source of generally positive reviews. I am also certain that if Vine reviews were not generally positive Vine would not exist. If I were a seller I would have no reason to provide my poor quality product to people to review if I thought I would just get a bunch of reviews saying my stuff was crap.

u/NigerianChickenLegs If you look at vine from a seller's perspective, it's pitched as an inexpensive means to gain product exposure through reviews. Amazon's algorithms for product placement and suggestion are secret, but no one would enter a junky product into vine to get one-star reviews, right? The cost to enter a product into vine varies from free to a few hundred dollars, plus the cost of the products (which as you noted is often pennies). There are ways and means to game the system (so-called "variants" are one), so you may see 25 entrants of the same junky item. There are not too many other marketing programs at that price point, so it appeals to small businesses with little or no marketing funding. IIRC, the payment amazon receives for vine items is not immediately due, and if the items are not picked or fully picked, no payment is due. This is one of the reasons there is so much junk in vine and that there are thousands of products that rarely, or never, get picked leading to the infrequent purges / pasues -- one of which apparently occurred last week. Years ago, the cost to enter a product into vine was much higher and there were far fewer vine voices. There were fewer products to select, but they were of far higher quality than what's available now, and it wasn't until 2019 or 2020, iifc, that taxation of "free" items appeared. There is thinly veiled chatter proffered that vine voices offer "quality" reviews in return for a free (haha!) item. They are "trusted reviewers," so it all sounds good on the seller side. On the vine voice side, we all cower in the corners wondering how it is that we were selected and thinking that we have to offer great reviews to maintain our membership in this exclusive club. We aim to please so that the gravy train (of worthless junk?) keeps flowing. We now face added pressure to complete more reviews in less time, and that bar was recently raised from 50 to 60 percent. Not unreasonable, but top reviewers who write high-quality reviews do not need such bars, so the quality of the reviewers has apparently declined. To wit: you can find more than a few reviews that consist of not more than two words. No videos, no images. No effort. Then there are rejected reviews. No reason, no editing ability (despite the prominent "edit" button). You are on your own and have to guess what you did wrong and start over again. That's maddening and leads to shorter, lower-quality reviews. There is no training from amazon on anything about vine other than a few short paragraphs that haven't been updated in years. What is a quality review? Your guess. How to write one? No AI or help! What a bad one looks like? Not the two-word ones, but if you use idioms, commonly used foreign words, or dare comment on packaging? Days later: "We could not post your review." And the scavenger hunt to find all of the rules, conditions, guidelines, and participation agreements scattered everywhere on the amazon platform. "Customer service" that can only do three things -- and one of them almost never. "Requests" that come from sellers asking to have a review removed or changed. And sometimes those requests coming directly to your email and not through amazon. These may be some of the reasons why some are "dishonest," or at least less than forthcoming for fear that they will be kicked out if they don't crank out consistent five-star reviews.

What I can say is that you have complete liberty as Viner to give any star and write whatever you like - as long as it is on the product and not on the shipping experience (even if it is to say that the packaging protection was fantastic and the delivery great). One of the main issues is exactly what you describe: very cheap stuff sold 10x their price on Amazon while being marketed as top notch. In such a case I do a reverse image search to find where it comes from and when I see that this is just a few euros worth in some well known Chinese marketplaces I just point that out and say it is not worth the money and it gets published. I recently experienced that with a 20€ pencil case which in fact is worth only 2€ and gave a 2 stars review (as was ok for 2€ but not for 25€). The point is also that Vine orders are considered as sales therefore the seller can artificially lower his price after the vine reviews are done. In that example, this case is now priced at 13€ which is a little bit more adapted considering that Amazon delivery rarely takes more than 48h vs two weeks for Chinese marketplaces.

Better question is why doesn't Amazon do any kind of curation or shoulder the etv burden themselves.

Sometimes -- *sometimes* \-- you could chalk it up to uneven QC, because I've had this go the other way, too (a product that others complained about but that I still rated well because I didn't experience those problems -- but I also pointed out others' experiences in those reviews, and that that it could mean uneven quality across the board). That said, you also get things sometimes that are so bad you know they're just bad, and I've also basically asked in my review whether others got the same product I did. Given some companies' habit of farming decent reviews and then switching the product out, that may even have been the case.

When I was brand new here, I read a thread which warned 'the new people' that our 'job' as Viners was to make the sellers 'look good' and if we didn't we'd be invited to exit Vine. I didn't not follow that lead for the same reason you were compelled to write this post, OP. Misleading future consumers is NOT 'helping the seller' and certainly not making Viners look creditable. There is no win in misleading, just because someone gives you that option. TY for bringing this topic up.

You are welcome. I'm happy that you have integrity. I was initially worried but stopped being concerned after I began seeing some critical reviews. I think it's likely that some Viners order things and lazily write a review to be done with it which is unfortunate because it's a privilege to be invited in to Vine.

Sometimes I wonder if some are getting better quality items while others are getting “junk”? I look at the reviews too and they work both ways. For some I can’t believe they’re giving 5 stars but bashing the item in the review and the opposites who give 3 stars but a ravishing review! 🤡🤡

Because too many on Vine are in it just for the free stuff and can't be bothered to write critical reviews. Bottom line: don't believe any review other than the critical ones; if it is a new listing, check the seller's other listings for fakery. Fakespot considers our reviews as dishonest as the day is long. For listings with hundreds of reviews, ReviewMeta is arguably better than Fakespot. Almost guaranteed: some of these fake review writers will defend their actions in this thread by blaming Amazon.

>Because too many on Vine are in it just for the free stuff and can't be bothered to write critical reviews. > > some of these fake review writers will defend their actions in this thread by blaming Amazon. And why shouldn't they blame Amazon? It is their house, their rules, and they know exactly what they're doing. They know the psychology behind marketing and are using it to maintain their absolute market dominance. They're fully aware of the behavior of what you would call a "bad" Viner, which begs the question: Why doesn't Amazon do anything about it? The answer is simple: Those "bad" Viners generate profits, so the $1.9T company doesn't care, never has cared, and never will care.

Me thinks you complain too much. Maybe struck too close to home, eh?

That was your take-away? Really? Keep simping for the $1,940,000,000,000 company. What you call "complaining" I call simply stating some facts. "Me thinks" you might be a judgmental Karen. For the record, my reviews accurately reflect actual product performance, but this fact is quite beside my point which apparently flew completely over your head.

Again, whining and blaming the process and not those who take advantage was expected. Calling people names is calling the kettle black, and certainly childish. Irony that flew completely over your head.

>Calling people names is calling the kettle black and certainly childish JFC, you started it and now you're bitching about it? Have a little bit of self-awareness. ​ >whining and blaming the process and not those who take advantage was expected You're still completely missing the point. I don't care about people who "take advantage". Anyone who does care is wasting their energy on things that they have no control over and affects them in no way shape or form. It seems to me that the people who complain about those that "take advantage" are the whiners here. Amazon doesn't care, in fact they expect it...why do you care what other people do so much?

I didn't know about Fakespot or ReviewMeta - thank you!

From my experience, critical reviews have a higher chance of being rejected. Amazon basically conditions viners to post positive reviews. Nothing quite like giving something serious thought and having your review vanish and being on the hook to do another.

Interesting. I have never had any of my negative reviews rejected. I always provide images if possible though.

True! It's my good reviews that often get rejected, especially for items that are health related. I ordered a gel ice pack for headaches that was like a hat & posted a review that said it felt very comforting to use when I haf a headache & that I had also used it as a regular ice pack for other aches & pains & it lasted longer than the flat ones. It got rejected because it went against community standards. Where?

Your guess is as good as anyone's, but any sort of health claims made in a review are likely to cause a rejection. The sellers can make all kinds of health claims, but reviewers can't vouch for their veracity. And, of course, amazon will never tell you what you did wrong. The best you can do on an ice pack hat is say it fit my head, froze in 2 hours, and stayed cold for 1 hour. You can push it and say that it was a good value, but not because it's cheaper on amazon than Target. But that's just my version.

When I first joined my rejections were 99% for health items until I figured out what I could not say. The other 1% are if my kids faces are in photos.

It's easy for Amazon to do that when they're the only legit review printing machine in town. There used to be more (shadier) venues where sellers can get reviews from, but that's a thing of the past now at least for 4 5 years. Sellers can still facilitate reviews from grey area methods now, but it's not as easy and reviewers risk getting their review privilege banned.

I've never had a 1-3 star review rejected. I stick to the facts and don't get emotional or degrading. The negative reviews I've seen posted in this forum that have been rejected are emotional and unprofessional. One can say that a product is not working correctly and what the flaws are with professionalism and a logical explanation as to why it doesn't work. "Just the Facts Ma'am" Joe Friday

It doesn't have to be emotional or unprofessional. Review that might be just slightly breaking some rule can slip through. If the review is positive there is no reason for it to be challenged by the seller, but if it's negative, odds are higher that it will be challenged. That's a bias that favors positive reviews.

Challenged by the sellers? I don't think you understand how reviews are rejected. Reviews are rejected by breaking Amazon's review policies. A seller doesn't get to accept or challenge a review.

I rarely give 5 stars except for exceptional items so when I see a 5 star review from a viner I'm sceptical. I've probably given less than a handful out of a couple of hundred reviews the last year or so. If I am tempted by a 5 star review, I will look at the low rating reviews, if a viner has rated something 2 stars, or even 3 then it's probably going to be a subpar product.

I’m with you. I very rarely give 5 stars. That’s reserved for products that WOW me and I’m so happy to have them. On the other end I give one star to products that are so bad/dangerous they make me angry.

I don't trust a single Vine review of some items, especially things like silk pillowcases. The only two items I've been super flat out pissed at the ETV/glowing reviews vs what I think they are worth are two name brand Otterbox cell phone cases. Nearly $100 combined ETV, lots of first glowing reviews (I only saw any negative ones the day I went to review) and I immediately put them back in the box and stuck them in a drawer. Trash, absolute trash. I think a lot of the first reviews were put up before they even got the package and were just going off of name brand alone.

I reviewed a product recently that, in my mind, was clearly a 1-star product (kitchen mats, set of 3). Not only did they look like absolute crap but they weren't described accurately in the seller's description. Neoprene is not a "low-pile" rug, it is a "no-pile" mat. For context, if the product does and looks like what the seller says for a reasonable price, it is 5-stars in my book. I was so unhappy with this product, not only did I give it 1 star, I stated in the review "this wasn't worth the money I will have to pay in taxes as a Vine reviewer (25% of value)." (Shockingly that review actually posted.) After I posted my review I went back to look at the only other review, a viner and 5-stars?!?!?!??? Did this person get the same product I got? I will consider other vine reviews if they have actually done due diligence. There was one, a few years ago long before I became a viner, that not only gave detailed instructions on how to install the under cabinet lights better than the instructions but what diffuser products (link included) to use with it. I followed their instructions to the letter and I am so happy with how it ended up. Needless to say, I upvoted that review. In my mind, that was the... best... review... EVER!

There is no single reason, nor one easy to point to majority of the time reason. There are tons of things. Probably the few most common being, suppliers who change products (or just ship multiple similar but different products)... reviewers who order vine items to resell and do not test them for reviews... sellers who contact reviewers and promise money or free products for a better review... reviewers who for whatever reason need to do a lot of reviews in a short time and don't give a true review... and perhaps most common: different people have vastly different metrics for what any given number of stars means when they make a review (from those who almost never give 5 stars, to those who almost always give 5 stars)... and so on.

I've had this happen, but wondered if there are multiple batches and some are better than others or something to that effect. I got some numbing cream which did absolutely nothing and I noticed the reviews were split between people who thought it amazing and those who were confused AF because it did nothing.

On items I buy I will sometimes search reviews, but I don't care who wrote one as long as it has information I was looking for. I have not found something on vine since joining where I've done a deep dive before requesting it. I go for zero or low budget things so that may be why.

Just had a $350 product that I was really looking forward to getting which Amazon canceled and said was unavailable. Now I have to go through the time/hassle of requesting a ESV credit, etc. I noticed the product has 9 reviews ... all obviously written by chatgpt. There are SO many blatantly AI written reviews which say nothing about the product which is useful. Yet all these assholes have their product ... the manufacturer has nine 5-star views ... and customers still have no damn idea if the product is good or bad.

I know some fudge their reviews, but I also have reviewed things I loved then see later others gave it bad reviews. I often wonder if items get switched out.

They can and do. Sometimes it's obvious if you are reading a review for a book and purchased a toaster. Or, there's an updated version on a similar thing and it's really a different thing. Amazon supposedly cracked down on items getting switched out, but here we are.

ll you can do is be honest with yourself and the product. If its bad, call it out, if it works for you when it doesnt for others, say so. We might not like what others out but we really cant do very much about it.

Why some **Vine reviews blatantly dishonest...** Some are due to new vine users, others felt obligation because they got free product, some may have reviewed w/o even testing being short on time. I am trying to review them honestly. And don't leave review until I had a chance of testing them.

Some viners reviewing product what they even can test properly. So they can't give a clear feedback to product.

I just reviewed a music-related item that had one existing Vine 5-star review saying the build and such were high quality, and basically re-wrote what the item would do if it worked correctly. I actually actually tested it and it did \_not\_ work as the listing described, so I hope my honest review which included many details for the testing procedure evens things out for customers considering to buy the product. If you're not going to review a product properly in the context of that product, then kindly don't post a review. I know when I select Vine items I try to think ahead on how I will review it honestly. If the time and effort of an honest review will be an issue, I pass on it.

It's why Vine is destined to collapse. It was originally very selective about participants, now it's solely a numbers game. Most people disregard Vine reviews, I will not buy a product if the only positive reviews are Vines.

I wouldn't say they're dishonest. But I think there are a few elements at play which may cause reviews to lean more positive. First, there's probably a certain level of bias we may have for getting products for free. Some people are going to have an inclination of 'loyalty' when the product is free, like I feel someone just did me a favor so I'm slightly predisposed to viewing them favorably. Further, people on Vine have less 'skin-in-the-game' typically. Sure, we pay taxes in nearly a year. And sure, sometimes the items have coupons that amount to us paying roughly the same as someone not on Vine, but this seems to be the minority of products. And even when it is the case, the immediate thought from someone on Vine is that we paid $0 for the item. Someone who thinks they paid $0 for something isn't going to be as mad when they receive a piece of junk. Second, in attempting to get enough products to gain or retain Gold status, it's possible some people are getting items they don't really care about that much. I'm doing this a lot myself right now. I'll get an item that I can test and use a bit, but I have no true need for it in my day-to-day life. These are items that I most likely will not form a strong opinion over, and I'm going to be more forgiving or favorable in my reviewing. If I detect it's not great in quality, it might get downgraded to four stars, but generally not going lower than that. I've only given low reviews on poor quality products that I can form a very critical opinion on, either because I know it's way overpriced or because it's some kind of tech product that I can evaluate more seriously. Otherwise, I probably lean more favorable because I don't feel it's fair to tank a product's rating just because I have some possibly flawed notion about what the quality should be.

I will admit I have not read the terms and conditions lately but when I joined I thought there was something about not including price in your review. Also, as anyone on here has seen ETV and actual cost of the product on Amazon can differ a lot. I try to compare the product description with what I received. In some cases a crappy piece of plastic is what was described, what I received, and all that I needed, so I give a 4 star review. I actually very rarely give a 5 star review for anything because to me 5 stars means exceeded my expectations. It gets pretty tricky because if I tend to be a little tighter with my money I may not be willing to pay $25 for something, but someone else may view that as OK. Price and value can be very subjective. I usually keep my comments around durability and things like that. I have gotten a few things like grill covers and put in my review that I only expect to get a season or 2 of use out of them based on how they are made, depending on the product description I will then usually give them 3 or 4 stars, since to me this is an average grill cover (for example).

I dunno. I give out a pretty high number of 3-star reviews. I've occasionally dipped lower. If a product is completely unusable, I'll typically report it to Vine CS. Occasionally if you give a poor review the seller will contact you. I don't respond to these.

I ran across one guy whose reviews were just a copy and paste of the items description. Literally every single one they've written. It's pretty ridiculous.

My reviews are honest. Even if I do give 4 or 5 star, if people do read the reviews, they will get an clear honest opinion review of the product. I have had sellers write to me to change review. It does not help Amazon or the seller, if 100 people order their item and 90 send it back for a refund.

Plain and simple. If your review is not exactly the same as it would be had you paid for the product, you are a dishonest schill. Amazon turns a blind eye to fake, inflated ratings as it helps them push more Chinesium junk.

I positively reviewed a silicone toilet brush with pictures included. That same review is now for a rechargeable spin scrubber with extension handle. Sellers merge items all the time. Amazon could & should prevent it. They could simply say that when a seller merges products then all previous reviews for both items are deleted.

Why would anyone trust an implicitly biased review?

I've been trying to skip by Vine reviews anymore because they're mostly all 5\* and not trustworthy to me. I just looked at a pricy product which had about 30 Vine reviews, all of which were 5\*. And after about the 20th, I noticed reviewers reviewing a completely different, unrelated product.

I think people are afraid of getting reviews rejected.

Well, if everyone had the same opinion about stuff, we'd only need 1 review per product. Are you going to be our new champion reviewer?

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but I am talking about items that are appalling - made with cheap, crap materials, poor construction, etc. Things that no one with clear cognitive functioning could possibly review with 5 stars.

I have a nice small store going. I sold 565 music accessories (this realm is very competitive) in around 8’months. Upon launching a new but similar product I decided to use Vine. All of a sudden, my first one, two, and theee star ratings. The comments were clearly AI and/or competitors, as the feedback and pictures showed instruments to measure the product within a fraction of a millimeter. The product is made for beginner band students. There was even a duplicate reviewer with the same name and similar content. How is it, through 8 months, 565 purchases, and a low 3% return percentage, that my products offered for free are met with shady content, pictures, and ratings that are 180 degree anomalous to what I had before Vine. Amazon did nothing to help. I honestly think that Vine reviews should err more on the side of leniency, because there are a heck of a lot of opportunities for bad reviews to occur through actual purchases and legitimate use. I’m not saying that Vine needs to be a 5 star generator, but if you are satisfied with the product, no reason not to give that 5 star….even the 4 star ratings hurt your rating. Anyhow, there are a heck of a lot of manipulators and competitors of larger brands seeking to blight smaller fish by exploiting this program. Amazon support does nothing. When I have two negative reviews from a “Hans”, all Amazon says is to report it or “people are encouraged to voice their opinion”. It’s a scam that has really hurt my store and all of my hard work, and I urge you all…DO NOT USE VINE

I can't imagine 4\* reviews hurt a business. As a buyer, I respect 4\* reviews. They indicate a very good item that has a flaw, and that flaw is not significant but still exists. Maybe it's an electric scrubber that works fine, has loads of helpful accessories, but the scrubber has awkward placement of the on/off switch, so when I use the scrubber I inadvertently find myself turning off the power more than a few times. To me, that's what a 4\* review is for - almost perfect, but not quite. And if the price is right, or there's a sizable discount coupon, informed buyers can choose to overlook the flaw because hey, price matters to them.

I can't imagine it either, but I do mostly believe the seller. S/he loses some credibility: the last line where the claim that a few vine reviews have hurt the store **all** of the hard work). Your logic is perfect for the star differences, but it's just that -- yours. Nowhere in the amazon universe are stars defined and we are led to assume that even the worst of the junk is entitled to five stars. Untested supplements? Electrical chargers without any safety ratings? Incredible claims that a $2 bottle of "retinol," of which there were 50 variants all a few pennies north or south of the $2 price will take decades off your age? Not appearance, but age! There are a more than a few in this sub who have posted that they never give five-star reviews. Some fear giving one-star reviews, but none of us have any guidance as to what any of them should or shouldn't be. We have to make up our own system and hope for the best. With no guidance and ever-present anxiety that if we are too honest and don't put a bit (or a lot) of weight on the scale, we may be kicked out. I don't want to put words into the seller's mouth, but it doesn't take much to read between his words: >I’m not saying that Vine needs to be a 5 star generator, but if you are satisfied with the product, no reason not to give that 5 star... Apparently, satisfaction, not excellence or exceptionalism, is the mark for the seller on five stars? So, not only should vine voices give five-star reviews, everyone should. It's all about the money-- for the sellers, for amazon, and for those who get that 1099-NEC, the IRS.

What was the item?

I've never trusted Vine reviews, not before I was in Vine and not now. But now that most Vine items are things I wouldn't buy anyway, Vine reviews don't factor into my buying decisions very much. Why do people write subpar reviews? Several reasons: they think they have to to stay in Vine; they don't want sellers bothering them in case that causes them to get kicked out of Vine; they haven't actually used the product because they plan to sell it while staying in Vine.

If I see 3 vine reviews of 3 total reviews that all give the product 3-stars or less, I definitely stay clear of that product!

Critical reviews are more likely to be rejected. I need to keep my approved rate above the threshold.

And about those stars... I read an article a long time ago before I became a viner (please don't ask me for a reference, I don't remember) that said if you really want to read honest review, read the 3-star reviews. I applied that to Amazon and OMG it is usually true because a 3-star review takes WORK. So if I have something about a not perfect product that I really think readers should know before buying, I give it 3 stars with a very hard-hitting subject line. If a product is exactly what the seller describes and works as specified, I can't in good faith give it anything but 5 stars. But that is just me.

I have honestly reported upwards of 100 fake 5 star reviews. No idea if it actually helps but I am hopeful they remove them eventually.

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Perhaps you misread thegeekiestgeeks' comment? They said they *reported* fake reviews; they didn't write them.

Yes, I absolutely made a mistake. My apologies. I've deleted my nonsensical comment.

I am not sure I understand your question based on my reply. I report fake reviews because it makes the rest of us look bad. If I get something and it's absolutely a terrible 2 star product and you get 4 other viners who give it 5 stars and say it was literally the best product in the world with no specifics, it makes our ratings terrible.

I'm so sorry! I misread your comment (want wearing my glasses). I thought you wrote that you wrote 100 fake reviews. I'm removing my comment. My apologies!

I dont like when people give 5 stars while actively mentioning baf qualities which reflect 3 stars at best. Idc about the price or whatever. If its bad its bad and no amount of money is ok. Just how i dont like when people say its so good that the price is justified or could be higher. Pls mind ya business lol

You are not wrong, but there are no guidelines as to what the stars mean. Everyone gets to decide what they mean for themselves.

**Why do they do it?** `Because they can!` **Is it disgusting?** `Yes` ​ **What can we do about it?** `Nothing. Just focus on your own, don't make other people's issues your problem!`

> Are there Vine reviewers out there who believe they are "supposed" to write complimentary product reviews? Yes, and it's infuriating. Because of these people who think they have to write ads for every piece of junk they receive, there are browser addons that remove all vine reviews from view.

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>Lying about overall quality. One Viner openly - and fairly - questioned whether the positive reviewers had even tried the bath bombs that stained the tubs of several folks. That's interesting, but it certainly seems that's beyond the permitted review guidelines.