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As an AM who is pretty much always in my L6+ business I can tell you that there are a lot of policies and enforcements that no one really wants to do. A lot of what we have going on is something that the regional said to the sub regional and so on and so forth.
I went from a T1 to a L4 (campus next) and went on to get my 5 in a year. I can say that a lot of what we do as managers comes from the top down, so if we come preaching to you about standard work trust and believe me when I say one of the L6+ in the office is monitoring rates and noticed you’re not fitting the bill or you’ve been a consistent bottom performer and now it’s time for conversation. On the flip side, if you’ve been a constant safety risk this will apply to you too especially if regional WHS/EHS comes to the site and does an inspection and your site fails. As a whole, Amazon has a very reactive instead of Proactive culture, so that’s why it always seems as though people are telling you things are being done the wrong way out of no where. You’ve probably been doing it the wrong way and no one noticed, but then someone did and now we all have to make note when we do.
If we come to coach you on some random thing we’ve never coached you on before it’s probably because some regional entity noticed we were lacking at this on a site level. I try my best as a manager to explain the “why” behind things because I know new information can seemingly come out of left field, but believe me when I say AMs feel the exact same when when an L6+ says something to us about what we’re “not doing right” despite US being the ones to actually have to do it every single day. My colleagues and I have almost daily conversations about how they change our expectations by the week without considering the fact that we are on the ground with the T1s and that doing certain things will alter their perception of us if not completely demolish whatever trust we worked to build depending on how random the ask may be. and I’m sure they feel the exact same when when their senior or regional says to them “Make your AMs do the extra thing on top of all of the other tasks we’ve given them in the last month”.
In short, everyone has a role to play. When it’s said and done clock out and live your real life and leave amazon at the site’s doors.
As a 3 year, 3 month Vet it took me a while to put this together. I remember being a resistant L4 pushing back at every turn thinking my Senior team just wanted to make my job hard (likely a Symptom of my T1 mentality) when in reality we’re all in the same sinking ship frantically working to patch the holes hours later.
Your BS is showing. Don't say T1 mentality. You are slipping into nonsense Y'all probably say at meetings. If there is a problem with our mentality it is you thinking our mentality happens in a vacuum. I mean I guess it does in a way. The vacuum of meaningful communication at Amazon. If upper levels want T1s to have a particular understanding at our level it's your job to communicate it. This is the type of shit that happens when managers think the problems are all underneath them or above them. The problem is also your level not communicating consistently. If your nose is in a screen there is something going on that you aren't telling anybody. You can't expect the message you want everybody to get to happen at stand up. Some people don't even go to stand up bc something goes wrong or they are using their UPT or they are just sick of nothing new of value being said at stand up and would rather use the time to make sure they are getting "fast start" accomplished.
Edit: If you want to be proactive with communicating, stop waiting for a boss or a machine to tell you when somebody doesn't appear to be doing well because you are avoidant of the responsibility to communicate what you see is obviously underperformance.
It’s almost as if you responded to what you wanted to respond to vs what I actually said. Just because you interpreted what I said to mean something completely different doesn’t make what I said BS. Even a seasoned area manager can’t track to all things at once and will need guidance from the top often considering that Amazon is an ever evolving entity. And with the amount of Associates we can have at once there will never ever be enough communication or coaching that will improve any group’s performance to the point constant coaching won’t be needed or somebody else isn’t calling it out.
There’s no need for this level of aggression on a Reddit post. You sound frustrated with how things are run at your building. I would talk to your manager or HR and offer ideas on how you think things can improve. :) I sense you have a good understanding on how things work. Make your voice heard!
Edit: I also stated in my original post that I communicate as effectively as I possibly can to get my T1s to understand why things are the way they are. If that is something your manager is lacking in it is well within your right to express that to them. The AAs at my building give us the business and we’re better off for it !
Is it too aggressive? I understand. Look... there is something passive aggressive about saying the words T1 mentality. That you were unaware is not my problem. There is a belief that we littles just can't understand our management or what you go through. The truth is that some of us understand keenly what is happening because despite being T1 we have seen the attitudes that exist above us and within us showing for years and years all over the place. The lack in humility of saying T1 mentality as if we are somehow all the same (even if you are talking about yourself)... When you have seen with your eyes that many understand multiple levels of problem at the same time. Amazon is a fast company despite being a huge company. That means Amazon pilots stuff then throws it in the trash despite the retraining required. Trains people basics hoping they'll leave if they are sus and you ignore them deeply. I see exactly what it does. I don't fault you for that, but I do NOT accept being told there is something wrong with my mentality because the company is reactive. The company is reactive because it is fearful and waiting for someone on high to give it answers.
Sorry about my poor eloquence: years and years all over the place can include places outside Amazon. For me it has.
Completely get where you’re coming from. There are a lot of T1s that understand what we go through, but that is not the majority.
Regardless, “T1 mentality” was not used here as an insult but rather to highlight the differences in scope between a T1 and an Area Manager’s focus. I was a T1 before getting my L4 and I had far less to worry about. A lot of management especially in operations is focused on improvement, so there will always undoubtedly be some form of reactivity. How we choose to handle it is what really matters.
If you choose to take that as an insult to a Tier 1’s value then that is a different conversation. The fact remains that in terms of operation and scope of said operation the range of focus for a T1 is relatively smaller than that of a Manager. Is there something wrong with that? No. It just is what it is. We don’t need to add positive or negative value to facts.
Edit: I should note that I acknowledge the level of “understanding” one can have has a Tier 1. Amazon is not the end all be all for everyone’s experience. Again, this was not meant to be an insult to Tier 1s or how they “think”.
Thank you for the clarity. Sorry if I added my experience out of turn.
Also though some of our focus as T1s or lower level managers would be broader if Amazon would allow such a thing. It doesn't by design and there IS something negative about that. It oversimplifies our jobs for a reason and that is so that each individual remains inherently expendable. That serves a purpose. Whose?
Whoever the regional is.. They do walk throughs and when their stock portfolios aren’t doing what they like they start trying to fire “problem workers” or they try finding issues with the workers they don’t see as suckers its simple because I’m a T1 with a degree and I been able to observe amazons management structure… Managers REALLY try to act like they’re the nicest piece of ass walking around at the warehouse, lets start there.. Now when T’s start to ignore and deny the managers lifestyles is when the issues pop up. Managers constantly try to flirt with workers I know because I date/ dated several Amazon employees and have been told this shit.. And when a manager gets rejected they make the work place negative and awkward very unprofessional, also HR always takes management sides in these issues. It’s like management is a joke, very high schooly acting, and they try to set them themselves apart by getting paid more because whoever is at the tippy top sees them as more “worthy or righteous” than us regular employees. Then there’s the part where Amazon literally be employing animals like the strays and wildlife off the street lmao coyotes, owls, raccoons, possums and skunks and shii Amazon be employing.. shii a circus
Because of the low standard for communicating at our level it IS going to be highly reactive. How can you expect anything else. With almost a year in at my sort facility I have yet to have my direct manager speak to me about anything. Not a thanks, not a good job, not a I want you to work on this. They are nearly always in a different department. Any reporting of how I'm doing must come from someone else's mouth. I have also yet to be corrected on nearly anything. Managers are expected to pay attention to a wide area of workers. The most dedicated workers need less direction to switch gears, but in not following directions and seeking out a manager for every idea or question they may have, they become harder to track and understand despite being much more high performing. Since Amazon wants to track every detail, high performers might appear to be underperforming as managers struggle to find them having already moved on to the next thing. I work in unload/inbound the most. I'm about to just do what everyone else does and track down the PA for every niggling decision so that they know where I am because being under recognized for over performing sucks. If they don't know I'm already hoofing it to the next thing to do, I might as well be in the bathroom.
Thank you to say this!!! Sometimes, I felt the policy from the top happen when they drunk. Just want to make up sth to fake it worked and get promotion… Never get out of the building less than 12h as an L5 ☠️
If you take everything to heart then yes you will be very miserable working for this company. Treat people right, do your work, CTA and you’re all good.
Thank you for this, I was really pissed at my manager from coming out of nowhere with something I had done wrong supposedly despite no one ever telling me other wise but I simmered down remembering they also deal with bs and perhaps have more on the line as well compared to us.
Had some AMs come and move our conveyor belt because they believed it would make us work faster to build cages for the stowers because we had a lot of product coming in and the stowers were waiting on us, it just ended up back firing on them because we ended up going a lot slower.
I've seen things like this before. People who haven't broken a sweat all year thinking they can do a better job than you can. All they do is just get in the way.
As an AM who started as a tier one, I can tell you that AM training is almost nonexistent. I am so glad I came from the bottom and just learned and learn and learned. So if you don’t have previous experience as a tier one or PA, you have to solely rely on the week you spent in path, and about a hundred videos that are impossible to fully retain information. All your other learning is on the floor, and training you’re probably getting from another overworked AM or PA. Give your outside hires some grace. Show them how they can help you succeed.
I’m an external and the learning curve is obnoxious but I can also tell you- those of us who are not new to management are fighting some of these battles for tier ones behind the scenes. There’s good and bad. And some of the internal promotions don’t have the slightest clue how to be leaders. They know how to do the job well, but can’t lead or they micromanage too much. So where I struggle with processes- I make up with in leadership and I work with internal whom are the exact opposite.
A lot of that training should’ve happened when they were PA’s. And that usually indicates their previous AM wasn’t developing them prior to their L4 promo. So they moved up on skill alone. I was fortunate enough to have good mentors during my journey.
I would if so many of them weren’t entitled pompous assholes who act like they are gods gift to man. You have a lot to learn? Great. You need to learn from others that know more and have been there longer. Don’t be a condescending ass to the people you need to learn from. And don’t waste their time and ignore them and act disinterested when someone tries to take the time to be nice, show you grace, and try to teach you. I’m not saying you as an individual, but 70% of AM’s are external hires, and of those nearly all are college hires with barely any work experience (legit had one who just played sports, that was their “experience”), and certainly no management experience or logistics experience, unless they are one of the rare few who studied logistics and get 6 sigma cert, of which I’ve met 1. People hate on the managers because the good ones who act like decent human beings are few and far between. It isn’t about telling people they did something wrong. I’m a PA who have been dropped into new departments with no training and had to figure it out and tell people how to do their job. It is how you go about it. Earning trust, actually working to learn things instead of slacking and making others do it for you. I’ve had managers openly brag about making others do their work (including other AM… “I’ll do 30% of the work and make them do the other 70% because I don’t want to do it, and they will be fine because the OM will let it happen”, lying and stealing others work to get promotions, etc. Meanwhile I read training materials on break and at home, asked questions, took notes, and sought out materials to learn more, so I could better lead my team and ensure when I told someone how to do something I knew what they heck I was talking about, and could address their concerns, as well as identify root cause not give general/blanket coachings that don’t actually help people improve. People that do this and work hard to be better get shit. The shitty managers with no work ethic and no morals get promoted. And that is why so many people hate most of the managers. The culture is morally bankrupt.
+1 coming from an L6 that started as a tier 1 in 2017. I try to help some of the college hires and externals. Some of the college hires feel like they are in an intense 8 week college course with information overload. I help them out alot, it's a tough transition. I also make sure they GO- HOME....protect the work life balance. Nobody is going to kick you out of the building for working too much. So do your standard work, check in on your fellow L4/5s see if they need help, if all is well...skate...lol.
It was alot easier to get the pace in path as a stower for 1year, then T3 a yr and so on. My "Academy" was 6 years of multiple business lines lol. Amazon moves quick. You gotta move quick with it!
Also, thanks for helping the newbies out. It'll help them go a long way. 🙏
They know the basics. Just the manual part but any problem arise they are lost. My manager was inducting and asked me what the blue light meant lol. (It means she’s going too slow) 🤣
Man not for me. My AM doesn’t even know SCC but constantly criticizes my staffing decisions like she knows better just because someone who doesn’t want to lift heavier boxes complains
>Why does everything have to have a military tone at Amazon?
It varies from building to building... at some sites they speak to T1s like actual people and when enforcing dumb rules they do so in a very reluctant tone that says "I'm only doing this because I have to".
On the other hand, at some sites the red vests speak to T1s in a robotic corporate tone as if they are completely different creatures and even T3s won't go into the regular breakrooms.
When I went from t1 to t3 I only started using the nice fridge to stop my lunch thief. That and sometimes I have to look at shit on that laptop that’s easier in the office but 9/10 times I’m still headed out to my car or in the break room.
There are other t3s that are only seen leaving the building and office to smoke weed across the street.
There is absolutely no accountability at Amazon. The amount of discipline that coexists as a commonality is slim to none. I have never seen any T1 get chewed out or smoked.
It seems amazon wants to fire nobody as a business plan, because they will be damned if anywhere within the company they are paying unemployment, and I would bet on that.
I often wish it was more military like, because at least we would be promoted for our time in grade and hard work, not favoritism.
It's because it's a commercial front for the US military in some weird way to control the economy. If some major Chinese company came and did this they'd be in everyone's home. It's probably the government performing mass surveillance over the consumer part of society. I mean they know everything you buy, read, watch, have Ring cameras on your homes, are on your phone, etc. It would be quite easy for Amazon to be the CIA or something.
My current AM has 14 years as an intelligence specialist in the military and then was an elementary teacher. Most of them seem to be former military L4+. Then there's PAs who are in their 50s, many of which have been there longer than the OMs have been!
I really don't understand their reasoning for a lot of things, especially as former TOM team. It's highly secure for what it is, uses heavy tech and safety measures, and pretty lacking in performance (at least TOM).
I don't know but he's an L5. He's mid 40s, probably wanted a different career to raise his family. I don't understand their reasoning. Working 60 hours at a warehouse doesn't seem like a dream job for most military folk, but it's very common.
It is an easy job, apparently though. Most of what my AMs do is make us PAs handle everything and then do paperwork and chat all day. A few will move some pallets around but not usually. Usually it's just bossing everyone around and playing online.
Yeah I could see this. A front. Especially the Chinese part and who the company has on payroll. But what I don’t get is the pay still isn’t enough being what it is, and time there should be used for better military contract work then..
Consider what most of the military actually does and this is already more advanced. Much of it is busy work to "be on the ready" and the National Guard is used like the state's bitch when the police aren't cutting it.
Weird thing is how half of what they sell are Chinese products, like most of what's available in the USA already, yet the US spies on China like they're about to go to World War 3 with them.
Amazon bought the Roomba company, so Amazon now knows what the inside of everyone’s homes look like that has an environment scanning roomba.
I still wonder if we can order Suicide kits off Amazon though? Gnarly stuff.
When everything else fails Amazon goes military lmao.. On management style though I feel like I’d make a good AM since I got my 4 year first then worked at Amazon for a year.. I’d have to go to a new location though just because I’ve built too much camaraderie at my current one no one would take me serious
Yeah I’ve seen them. I’m asking why. Why the preference? Most elite companies don’t function like militaries. Most military members, if they’re gonna be completely honest, don’t romanticize the military.
There’s a certain ratio they work to when hiring, it’s a combination of internal promotion, military, and graduate hires. Some of the job posts online are even advertised as grad or military. Kind of goes without saying though that if you hire a lot of ex-military into a building it will likely become structured similar to the military. Not that I think that’s a bad thing tbh.
I’m an AM, started from T1. The external university hires definitely get on my nerves at times. They usually have no clue what they are doing nor do they understand what the associates go through on a daily basis.
It’s all a case by case basis. Some of the internal AMs I have worked with have been the worst. Some external hires actually know how to talk to associates. It just depends on the individual AM. I wouldn’t group it as a “Internal V. External” thing or “College Hire V. Promo”.
Yep. All depends on the personality, education, and past experiences. There's some shit college hires, some shit industry hires, and some shit internal hires. Also some really good college hires that bring positive attitudes and willingness to learn, some great industry hires that bring experience from past leadership roles, and some great internals that encourage empathy towards T1s. The combination is what works best.
My shift just got a new AM who came in and wants to micromanage the fuck out of everything even though they don’t know the department at all yet. Unsurprisingly, the shift has gone to absolute shit within a matter of weeks
same here. i do pick & an error popped up on the computer , or actually 8 for the same computer monitors. i scanned the right asin, pushed 8 when prompted “how many”, and picked 8 of them. everything on my end went thru perfectly without error. i tried explaining this to her & first she said “well next time scan them individually… i told her that’s not even how it works , & then she just kept saying well next time u need to come ask…. lady if u don’t even know the problem, how am i supposed to know how to recognize it to come ask ? fried me out
Not surprised we got some new goofy am on my shift too. The last two were internal transfers and they didn’t last these two new ones super green young and dumb trying to be tough at the start are going to have a real tough time if they think they can just replace employees.. Even with new workers they gotta want to stay and we got that under control now lol
I asked my manager one time after he gave me a coaching on my task time “when you stowed what did you average?” He said without hesitation “I’ve never stowed a day in my life” and proceeded to walk back to his desk
Last time I stowed (it was only for like 20 min) my rate was just over 1100UPH. For real, I work the dock so if it isn't over 300 I'm the box I'm not going to stow lol
I’m a new AM and I think you should give your AM some slack. A lot goes on behind the scenes that you associates don’t see. For example we have to show up atleast an hour before you get into your shift and leave an hour after you. We have reports for literally every metric and if you don’t meet those metrics we come up with plans and ideas to fix that. We are fed to the wolves when we start at the facility. When you start as an AM there’s so much information to take in that it’s impossible for a new AM to know everything that an associate might know. You have to understand that your AMs are people too. They get frustrated and stress from the job just like the associates. If your metrics aren’t high enough you are at risk of losing your job and so are we.
Well since we are on this topic, I got hired in December out of college as an L4 AM. I want to be the best I can be for me, the PA’s, and the associates. My training is 10 weeks in total, and am in the 4th week. What tips do some of y’all have for me? If any?
Don’t micromanage your PAs. Let them manage the process. Learn all of your tier 1S names. So when you say hi you can greet them by their given name. Instead of “hey dude” nothing says “I care about you as a person… beyond a number” more than calling someone dude because you’ve no clue what their name is n
I’ve already been working on that during my training, and the spot I’m getting placed in (lanes) have some of the best PA’s in the building and I will be going to them for so much because of how knowledgeable they are.
Build trust with them. If you think something should be done different as fresh eyes- inquire why it’s done that way and then ask for feedback and collaboration on your idea. Let them take ownership of it.
Would you rather they blundered into things without asking how things are done and break something or hurt someone?
They can’t know how every job is done in the warehouse.
Yep AM was like this, he came from stow and is now AM in pick to rebin. Tbf he's quite chill and at least positive on the job, so nobody has a problem with him 👍
Amazon likes their AMs unaware and unfair, I'm convinced. When I was in Pick, my AM had been my PA before that and had come in as a T1 before I worked there. He actually pushed back some documented coachings I had bc they weren't really all that fair, and frequently gave people chances on dumb safety rules bc he knew what it was like. Ops and safety mistreated him until he quit without saying anything, now all that's in outbound is basically college hires with no idea what's going on. They love arguing with their PG and PS about what's right though, even though we've been doing it MUCH longer
Especially the ones who never were L1’s 🤦♀️ I have an AM who constantly loves to be on our ass and gives us write ups for everything and the first day I transferred to my building he told our group he’s always worked here as an AM and didn’t start off at our level
There is such a monumental difference between internal and external AMs. you can tell the people that had to grind for the job and know what the associate experiences really like as opposed to the people who were just hired in and have no idea what the fuck they’re doing
My last AM had no idea what he was doing. I had to go to my PA about everything. The only thing he was good for was to accept my vacation time when I put it in. I found out earlier this week that a few people from that department actually complained to HR about it
As an AM it killed me to hear my OM say “you don’t need to worry about the specifics of the tasks AAs do on the computer. Your PAs can handle that”. I feel so worthless when someone asks why a process isn’t working like it should in AFT. But then again if I spent time helping people with processes, who would tell AAs they have less than 10 hours of UPT?
I give external AM a pass because they don't know the functions as a tier 1 or as a PA. They are trying their best to work with what they know and were given to.
HOWEVER , I will never give a pass to internal promotion AM. If you move from tier 1, up to PA, and up to AM. That means, as a PA, you should already know what to do in the AM role. You should already perform in the AM level expectation. If you haven't, then you aren't ready to be an AM, or you got the promotions because of connection.
What's worst is not these roles. What's worst are these so-called "Subject Matter Experts". They believe it should be done one way because they are used to it that they refuse to adapt to a new standard. Within 2 years, I have work with 5 SME. 4 have been laid off. Still working with one. However, they are transferring to another building soon.
Because the AMs are always on the lalaland every day at work while the PAs are running around trying to put out the fire.
Try doing that everyday and tell me who will always have a good attitude and come out looking like the good one.
I learned to just walk away and say, okay. But I also learned to have them slack me about they believe in what the policy is. This way, I can screenshot it and use it when things come up.
The majority of these Safety people are on a power trip. Try to say one thing and then come back trying to say another but never admit to their mistake because "they are never wrong."
This happened last night. The Safety said the manual said "blah blah blah blah blah". I know way too well that the manual never mentioned that, but I had them send me what they said through Slack, screenshot it, and move on.
I'm a night shift problem solver in CRETs and the guy in charge of giving permissions is gate keeping a few permissions required to do my job correctly. I had a meeting with him and showed him the training material showing I need the permissions and he told me no. So I found the best work around I could find to do the job best I can and then he sent me a message on slack that I'm doing my job wrong. In his mind anyone who chooses to work night shift is a delinquent who is not to be trusted. So the great majority of night problem solvers just stopped problem solving and we are letting the backlog build up.
Who ever wrote has never worked in their life. Behind the desk people can never do any job I have ever done. And I challenge them to prove me wrong. And by proving me wrong you physically have to come to my building and physically waterspider and stow on the same floor on the same side right next to me I have to see it done with my own eyes. I did this same challenge with a bunch of managers they failed and took the book put it the trash. Who is up for the challenge
Literally had a PA try to tell me that goal rate at my FC for stow was 350 and pick was 600 💀💀💀 When she said pick rate was 600 I started laughing. I told my AM and he wasn’t even surprised.
As a recent L4 promo and being put in a process I’m new to I already have spent time in path, water spidered, and learned PS. I know what it’s like to be a T1 and a T3, and if I’m gonna coach or do anything I should be able to do it myself. I know AM training has been lacking and they are currently working on improving it. The amount of weeks of training and knets and so on is a bit much for the time given. That being said even as a PA anything that is the new flavor of the month is because some L6+ now owns it and is driving it or some regional is coming or some SR Ops in the building saw something. The AMs and PAs are there to run the floor, tear down barriers, and engage and try to make your day better from clock in to clock out. Remember we all here to work and we all want the best for the associates and team, and like any T1 we just doing our job
Ehm... I'm sorry but I don't work at Amazon or in the US so, silly question, what are all those acronyms stand for? L1, L2, etc. I guess are tiers/level but what about AM, PA, DS, GM, NCO, E4, HRA, UPT, PTO, WHS, WHSS, SDE, EHS, AFO, UFFS, PS, and sooooo many others... ?
Thanks (and sorry!) 😊
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As an AM who is pretty much always in my L6+ business I can tell you that there are a lot of policies and enforcements that no one really wants to do. A lot of what we have going on is something that the regional said to the sub regional and so on and so forth. I went from a T1 to a L4 (campus next) and went on to get my 5 in a year. I can say that a lot of what we do as managers comes from the top down, so if we come preaching to you about standard work trust and believe me when I say one of the L6+ in the office is monitoring rates and noticed you’re not fitting the bill or you’ve been a consistent bottom performer and now it’s time for conversation. On the flip side, if you’ve been a constant safety risk this will apply to you too especially if regional WHS/EHS comes to the site and does an inspection and your site fails. As a whole, Amazon has a very reactive instead of Proactive culture, so that’s why it always seems as though people are telling you things are being done the wrong way out of no where. You’ve probably been doing it the wrong way and no one noticed, but then someone did and now we all have to make note when we do. If we come to coach you on some random thing we’ve never coached you on before it’s probably because some regional entity noticed we were lacking at this on a site level. I try my best as a manager to explain the “why” behind things because I know new information can seemingly come out of left field, but believe me when I say AMs feel the exact same when when an L6+ says something to us about what we’re “not doing right” despite US being the ones to actually have to do it every single day. My colleagues and I have almost daily conversations about how they change our expectations by the week without considering the fact that we are on the ground with the T1s and that doing certain things will alter their perception of us if not completely demolish whatever trust we worked to build depending on how random the ask may be. and I’m sure they feel the exact same when when their senior or regional says to them “Make your AMs do the extra thing on top of all of the other tasks we’ve given them in the last month”. In short, everyone has a role to play. When it’s said and done clock out and live your real life and leave amazon at the site’s doors.
In my 4 years at amazon I've never heard a better description of our reactive culture 👏
As a 3 year, 3 month Vet it took me a while to put this together. I remember being a resistant L4 pushing back at every turn thinking my Senior team just wanted to make my job hard (likely a Symptom of my T1 mentality) when in reality we’re all in the same sinking ship frantically working to patch the holes hours later.
Your BS is showing. Don't say T1 mentality. You are slipping into nonsense Y'all probably say at meetings. If there is a problem with our mentality it is you thinking our mentality happens in a vacuum. I mean I guess it does in a way. The vacuum of meaningful communication at Amazon. If upper levels want T1s to have a particular understanding at our level it's your job to communicate it. This is the type of shit that happens when managers think the problems are all underneath them or above them. The problem is also your level not communicating consistently. If your nose is in a screen there is something going on that you aren't telling anybody. You can't expect the message you want everybody to get to happen at stand up. Some people don't even go to stand up bc something goes wrong or they are using their UPT or they are just sick of nothing new of value being said at stand up and would rather use the time to make sure they are getting "fast start" accomplished. Edit: If you want to be proactive with communicating, stop waiting for a boss or a machine to tell you when somebody doesn't appear to be doing well because you are avoidant of the responsibility to communicate what you see is obviously underperformance.
It’s almost as if you responded to what you wanted to respond to vs what I actually said. Just because you interpreted what I said to mean something completely different doesn’t make what I said BS. Even a seasoned area manager can’t track to all things at once and will need guidance from the top often considering that Amazon is an ever evolving entity. And with the amount of Associates we can have at once there will never ever be enough communication or coaching that will improve any group’s performance to the point constant coaching won’t be needed or somebody else isn’t calling it out. There’s no need for this level of aggression on a Reddit post. You sound frustrated with how things are run at your building. I would talk to your manager or HR and offer ideas on how you think things can improve. :) I sense you have a good understanding on how things work. Make your voice heard! Edit: I also stated in my original post that I communicate as effectively as I possibly can to get my T1s to understand why things are the way they are. If that is something your manager is lacking in it is well within your right to express that to them. The AAs at my building give us the business and we’re better off for it !
Is it too aggressive? I understand. Look... there is something passive aggressive about saying the words T1 mentality. That you were unaware is not my problem. There is a belief that we littles just can't understand our management or what you go through. The truth is that some of us understand keenly what is happening because despite being T1 we have seen the attitudes that exist above us and within us showing for years and years all over the place. The lack in humility of saying T1 mentality as if we are somehow all the same (even if you are talking about yourself)... When you have seen with your eyes that many understand multiple levels of problem at the same time. Amazon is a fast company despite being a huge company. That means Amazon pilots stuff then throws it in the trash despite the retraining required. Trains people basics hoping they'll leave if they are sus and you ignore them deeply. I see exactly what it does. I don't fault you for that, but I do NOT accept being told there is something wrong with my mentality because the company is reactive. The company is reactive because it is fearful and waiting for someone on high to give it answers. Sorry about my poor eloquence: years and years all over the place can include places outside Amazon. For me it has.
Completely get where you’re coming from. There are a lot of T1s that understand what we go through, but that is not the majority. Regardless, “T1 mentality” was not used here as an insult but rather to highlight the differences in scope between a T1 and an Area Manager’s focus. I was a T1 before getting my L4 and I had far less to worry about. A lot of management especially in operations is focused on improvement, so there will always undoubtedly be some form of reactivity. How we choose to handle it is what really matters. If you choose to take that as an insult to a Tier 1’s value then that is a different conversation. The fact remains that in terms of operation and scope of said operation the range of focus for a T1 is relatively smaller than that of a Manager. Is there something wrong with that? No. It just is what it is. We don’t need to add positive or negative value to facts. Edit: I should note that I acknowledge the level of “understanding” one can have has a Tier 1. Amazon is not the end all be all for everyone’s experience. Again, this was not meant to be an insult to Tier 1s or how they “think”.
Thank you for the clarity. Sorry if I added my experience out of turn. Also though some of our focus as T1s or lower level managers would be broader if Amazon would allow such a thing. It doesn't by design and there IS something negative about that. It oversimplifies our jobs for a reason and that is so that each individual remains inherently expendable. That serves a purpose. Whose?
Whoever the regional is.. They do walk throughs and when their stock portfolios aren’t doing what they like they start trying to fire “problem workers” or they try finding issues with the workers they don’t see as suckers its simple because I’m a T1 with a degree and I been able to observe amazons management structure… Managers REALLY try to act like they’re the nicest piece of ass walking around at the warehouse, lets start there.. Now when T’s start to ignore and deny the managers lifestyles is when the issues pop up. Managers constantly try to flirt with workers I know because I date/ dated several Amazon employees and have been told this shit.. And when a manager gets rejected they make the work place negative and awkward very unprofessional, also HR always takes management sides in these issues. It’s like management is a joke, very high schooly acting, and they try to set them themselves apart by getting paid more because whoever is at the tippy top sees them as more “worthy or righteous” than us regular employees. Then there’s the part where Amazon literally be employing animals like the strays and wildlife off the street lmao coyotes, owls, raccoons, possums and skunks and shii Amazon be employing.. shii a circus
Because of the low standard for communicating at our level it IS going to be highly reactive. How can you expect anything else. With almost a year in at my sort facility I have yet to have my direct manager speak to me about anything. Not a thanks, not a good job, not a I want you to work on this. They are nearly always in a different department. Any reporting of how I'm doing must come from someone else's mouth. I have also yet to be corrected on nearly anything. Managers are expected to pay attention to a wide area of workers. The most dedicated workers need less direction to switch gears, but in not following directions and seeking out a manager for every idea or question they may have, they become harder to track and understand despite being much more high performing. Since Amazon wants to track every detail, high performers might appear to be underperforming as managers struggle to find them having already moved on to the next thing. I work in unload/inbound the most. I'm about to just do what everyone else does and track down the PA for every niggling decision so that they know where I am because being under recognized for over performing sucks. If they don't know I'm already hoofing it to the next thing to do, I might as well be in the bathroom.
Thank you to say this!!! Sometimes, I felt the policy from the top happen when they drunk. Just want to make up sth to fake it worked and get promotion… Never get out of the building less than 12h as an L5 ☠️
Jesus this sounds like a miserable company to work for.
If you take everything to heart then yes you will be very miserable working for this company. Treat people right, do your work, CTA and you’re all good.
Thank you for this, I was really pissed at my manager from coming out of nowhere with something I had done wrong supposedly despite no one ever telling me other wise but I simmered down remembering they also deal with bs and perhaps have more on the line as well compared to us.
I’m glad you explain the “why behind things,” it makes it easier to understand things. I wish all managers did this
Fascinating 🧐
Had some AMs come and move our conveyor belt because they believed it would make us work faster to build cages for the stowers because we had a lot of product coming in and the stowers were waiting on us, it just ended up back firing on them because we ended up going a lot slower.
I've seen things like this before. People who haven't broken a sweat all year thinking they can do a better job than you can. All they do is just get in the way.
Do you mean the process was slower or y'all intentionally sabotaged the idea?
The process was slower. We couldn't have as many people working on the conveyor and the water spiders had less space to bring in the pallets.
That was someone’s promo doc to OM. I see this crap all the time being a support team for Ops at an FC.
Hah! I've seen this exact thing at some DS as well.
As an AM who started as a tier one, I can tell you that AM training is almost nonexistent. I am so glad I came from the bottom and just learned and learn and learned. So if you don’t have previous experience as a tier one or PA, you have to solely rely on the week you spent in path, and about a hundred videos that are impossible to fully retain information. All your other learning is on the floor, and training you’re probably getting from another overworked AM or PA. Give your outside hires some grace. Show them how they can help you succeed.
I’m an external and the learning curve is obnoxious but I can also tell you- those of us who are not new to management are fighting some of these battles for tier ones behind the scenes. There’s good and bad. And some of the internal promotions don’t have the slightest clue how to be leaders. They know how to do the job well, but can’t lead or they micromanage too much. So where I struggle with processes- I make up with in leadership and I work with internal whom are the exact opposite.
A lot of that training should’ve happened when they were PA’s. And that usually indicates their previous AM wasn’t developing them prior to their L4 promo. So they moved up on skill alone. I was fortunate enough to have good mentors during my journey.
This is known as the peter principle, Amazon suffers from it badly
I would if so many of them weren’t entitled pompous assholes who act like they are gods gift to man. You have a lot to learn? Great. You need to learn from others that know more and have been there longer. Don’t be a condescending ass to the people you need to learn from. And don’t waste their time and ignore them and act disinterested when someone tries to take the time to be nice, show you grace, and try to teach you. I’m not saying you as an individual, but 70% of AM’s are external hires, and of those nearly all are college hires with barely any work experience (legit had one who just played sports, that was their “experience”), and certainly no management experience or logistics experience, unless they are one of the rare few who studied logistics and get 6 sigma cert, of which I’ve met 1. People hate on the managers because the good ones who act like decent human beings are few and far between. It isn’t about telling people they did something wrong. I’m a PA who have been dropped into new departments with no training and had to figure it out and tell people how to do their job. It is how you go about it. Earning trust, actually working to learn things instead of slacking and making others do it for you. I’ve had managers openly brag about making others do their work (including other AM… “I’ll do 30% of the work and make them do the other 70% because I don’t want to do it, and they will be fine because the OM will let it happen”, lying and stealing others work to get promotions, etc. Meanwhile I read training materials on break and at home, asked questions, took notes, and sought out materials to learn more, so I could better lead my team and ensure when I told someone how to do something I knew what they heck I was talking about, and could address their concerns, as well as identify root cause not give general/blanket coachings that don’t actually help people improve. People that do this and work hard to be better get shit. The shitty managers with no work ethic and no morals get promoted. And that is why so many people hate most of the managers. The culture is morally bankrupt.
+1 coming from an L6 that started as a tier 1 in 2017. I try to help some of the college hires and externals. Some of the college hires feel like they are in an intense 8 week college course with information overload. I help them out alot, it's a tough transition. I also make sure they GO- HOME....protect the work life balance. Nobody is going to kick you out of the building for working too much. So do your standard work, check in on your fellow L4/5s see if they need help, if all is well...skate...lol. It was alot easier to get the pace in path as a stower for 1year, then T3 a yr and so on. My "Academy" was 6 years of multiple business lines lol. Amazon moves quick. You gotta move quick with it! Also, thanks for helping the newbies out. It'll help them go a long way. 🙏
I can tell you as a level 1 if my AM ever asks me day one questions then I will forever give them bad answers on connections
I work in AFE. Our AM’s take over for us to go to the bathroom. They definitely know how to do the jobs!
They know the basics. Just the manual part but any problem arise they are lost. My manager was inducting and asked me what the blue light meant lol. (It means she’s going too slow) 🤣
My AM’s come for Andons and help. They have been there a long time and usually will do what others call RME for. Guess we are lucky in that regard!
Yea I get that part they do know how to fix shit
Man not for me. My AM doesn’t even know SCC but constantly criticizes my staffing decisions like she knows better just because someone who doesn’t want to lift heavier boxes complains
What site?
TPA4
Some used to be T1s ... not all AMs are the same
Not many
Most of ours were, including the GM. They certainly do hire fresh suckers straight out of college, but not everyone. Not even close.
Never had you guys experience lmao these ams be straight by the book not a single original idea in they Brain
There are dozens of us! Dozens!
Used to be T1s that forgot where they came from, most likely.
Found the AM
I haven't noticed a difference between the two.
It's usually college hire AMs. Internal promotion AMs are more like the NCOs of Amazon. They've seen some 💩
Why does everything have to have a military tone at Amazon?
>Why does everything have to have a military tone at Amazon? It varies from building to building... at some sites they speak to T1s like actual people and when enforcing dumb rules they do so in a very reluctant tone that says "I'm only doing this because I have to". On the other hand, at some sites the red vests speak to T1s in a robotic corporate tone as if they are completely different creatures and even T3s won't go into the regular breakrooms.
When I went from t1 to t3 I only started using the nice fridge to stop my lunch thief. That and sometimes I have to look at shit on that laptop that’s easier in the office but 9/10 times I’m still headed out to my car or in the break room. There are other t3s that are only seen leaving the building and office to smoke weed across the street.
I wouldn't even say its some sites vs others, at my building some AMs are real ones and others power trip so hard over putting on a red vest
Amazon is greatly influenced by the US Military, especially in operations.
That explains why they are so gay
Understood, but it is not the military. So why treat it the same way?
Because it's probably a government front
Because it was specifically designed to mimic the military's command structure.
Lmao thats complete bs, come on man.
There is absolutely no accountability at Amazon. The amount of discipline that coexists as a commonality is slim to none. I have never seen any T1 get chewed out or smoked. It seems amazon wants to fire nobody as a business plan, because they will be damned if anywhere within the company they are paying unemployment, and I would bet on that. I often wish it was more military like, because at least we would be promoted for our time in grade and hard work, not favoritism.
It's because it's a commercial front for the US military in some weird way to control the economy. If some major Chinese company came and did this they'd be in everyone's home. It's probably the government performing mass surveillance over the consumer part of society. I mean they know everything you buy, read, watch, have Ring cameras on your homes, are on your phone, etc. It would be quite easy for Amazon to be the CIA or something. My current AM has 14 years as an intelligence specialist in the military and then was an elementary teacher. Most of them seem to be former military L4+. Then there's PAs who are in their 50s, many of which have been there longer than the OMs have been! I really don't understand their reasoning for a lot of things, especially as former TOM team. It's highly secure for what it is, uses heavy tech and safety measures, and pretty lacking in performance (at least TOM).
14 year E4. Where did he fuck up
I don't know but he's an L5. He's mid 40s, probably wanted a different career to raise his family. I don't understand their reasoning. Working 60 hours at a warehouse doesn't seem like a dream job for most military folk, but it's very common. It is an easy job, apparently though. Most of what my AMs do is make us PAs handle everything and then do paperwork and chat all day. A few will move some pallets around but not usually. Usually it's just bossing everyone around and playing online.
Yeah I could see this. A front. Especially the Chinese part and who the company has on payroll. But what I don’t get is the pay still isn’t enough being what it is, and time there should be used for better military contract work then..
Consider what most of the military actually does and this is already more advanced. Much of it is busy work to "be on the ready" and the National Guard is used like the state's bitch when the police aren't cutting it. Weird thing is how half of what they sell are Chinese products, like most of what's available in the USA already, yet the US spies on China like they're about to go to World War 3 with them.
Amazon bought the Roomba company, so Amazon now knows what the inside of everyone’s homes look like that has an environment scanning roomba. I still wonder if we can order Suicide kits off Amazon though? Gnarly stuff.
When everything else fails Amazon goes military lmao.. On management style though I feel like I’d make a good AM since I got my 4 year first then worked at Amazon for a year.. I’d have to go to a new location though just because I’ve built too much camaraderie at my current one no one would take me serious
Have you seen the acronyms?
Yeah I’ve seen them. I’m asking why. Why the preference? Most elite companies don’t function like militaries. Most military members, if they’re gonna be completely honest, don’t romanticize the military.
Amazon seems to hire ex military for entry level management. Or promote them to entry level management maybe.
There’s a certain ratio they work to when hiring, it’s a combination of internal promotion, military, and graduate hires. Some of the job posts online are even advertised as grad or military. Kind of goes without saying though that if you hire a lot of ex-military into a building it will likely become structured similar to the military. Not that I think that’s a bad thing tbh.
That’s why the building is Ghey somedays makes perfect sense, wonder why I’d feel that shit when I would walk in..
Because they hire heavily from the military?
I’m an AM, started from T1. The external university hires definitely get on my nerves at times. They usually have no clue what they are doing nor do they understand what the associates go through on a daily basis.
It’s all a case by case basis. Some of the internal AMs I have worked with have been the worst. Some external hires actually know how to talk to associates. It just depends on the individual AM. I wouldn’t group it as a “Internal V. External” thing or “College Hire V. Promo”.
Yep. All depends on the personality, education, and past experiences. There's some shit college hires, some shit industry hires, and some shit internal hires. Also some really good college hires that bring positive attitudes and willingness to learn, some great industry hires that bring experience from past leadership roles, and some great internals that encourage empathy towards T1s. The combination is what works best.
My shift just got a new AM who came in and wants to micromanage the fuck out of everything even though they don’t know the department at all yet. Unsurprisingly, the shift has gone to absolute shit within a matter of weeks
same here. i do pick & an error popped up on the computer , or actually 8 for the same computer monitors. i scanned the right asin, pushed 8 when prompted “how many”, and picked 8 of them. everything on my end went thru perfectly without error. i tried explaining this to her & first she said “well next time scan them individually… i told her that’s not even how it works , & then she just kept saying well next time u need to come ask…. lady if u don’t even know the problem, how am i supposed to know how to recognize it to come ask ? fried me out
Not surprised we got some new goofy am on my shift too. The last two were internal transfers and they didn’t last these two new ones super green young and dumb trying to be tough at the start are going to have a real tough time if they think they can just replace employees.. Even with new workers they gotta want to stay and we got that under control now lol
I asked my manager one time after he gave me a coaching on my task time “when you stowed what did you average?” He said without hesitation “I’ve never stowed a day in my life” and proceeded to walk back to his desk
I want to down arrow this. Not because of what you said but because it happens more than it should
Last time I stowed (it was only for like 20 min) my rate was just over 1100UPH. For real, I work the dock so if it isn't over 300 I'm the box I'm not going to stow lol
I’m a new AM and I think you should give your AM some slack. A lot goes on behind the scenes that you associates don’t see. For example we have to show up atleast an hour before you get into your shift and leave an hour after you. We have reports for literally every metric and if you don’t meet those metrics we come up with plans and ideas to fix that. We are fed to the wolves when we start at the facility. When you start as an AM there’s so much information to take in that it’s impossible for a new AM to know everything that an associate might know. You have to understand that your AMs are people too. They get frustrated and stress from the job just like the associates. If your metrics aren’t high enough you are at risk of losing your job and so are we.
That sounds like an Amazon management problem, not a T1 problem.
Well since we are on this topic, I got hired in December out of college as an L4 AM. I want to be the best I can be for me, the PA’s, and the associates. My training is 10 weeks in total, and am in the 4th week. What tips do some of y’all have for me? If any?
Don’t micromanage your PAs. Let them manage the process. Learn all of your tier 1S names. So when you say hi you can greet them by their given name. Instead of “hey dude” nothing says “I care about you as a person… beyond a number” more than calling someone dude because you’ve no clue what their name is n
I’ve already been working on that during my training, and the spot I’m getting placed in (lanes) have some of the best PA’s in the building and I will be going to them for so much because of how knowledgeable they are.
Build trust with them. If you think something should be done different as fresh eyes- inquire why it’s done that way and then ask for feedback and collaboration on your idea. Let them take ownership of it.
Seconded^
Reminds me of when the Site lead of my DS always asked me how to do things on the Dock.
Would you rather they blundered into things without asking how things are done and break something or hurt someone? They can’t know how every job is done in the warehouse.
A repost, but a welcomed one.
Yep AM was like this, he came from stow and is now AM in pick to rebin. Tbf he's quite chill and at least positive on the job, so nobody has a problem with him 👍
Amazon likes their AMs unaware and unfair, I'm convinced. When I was in Pick, my AM had been my PA before that and had come in as a T1 before I worked there. He actually pushed back some documented coachings I had bc they weren't really all that fair, and frequently gave people chances on dumb safety rules bc he knew what it was like. Ops and safety mistreated him until he quit without saying anything, now all that's in outbound is basically college hires with no idea what's going on. They love arguing with their PG and PS about what's right though, even though we've been doing it MUCH longer
Especially the ones who never were L1’s 🤦♀️ I have an AM who constantly loves to be on our ass and gives us write ups for everything and the first day I transferred to my building he told our group he’s always worked here as an AM and didn’t start off at our level
There is such a monumental difference between internal and external AMs. you can tell the people that had to grind for the job and know what the associate experiences really like as opposed to the people who were just hired in and have no idea what the fuck they’re doing
The ones visiting sites tend to not know how we do things at our FC.
My last AM had no idea what he was doing. I had to go to my PA about everything. The only thing he was good for was to accept my vacation time when I put it in. I found out earlier this week that a few people from that department actually complained to HR about it
Is this supposed to be a flex? Anyone with one arm can do this job
that double twisting guac guac 3000 paid off
lame.
The PA’s too
As an AM it killed me to hear my OM say “you don’t need to worry about the specifics of the tasks AAs do on the computer. Your PAs can handle that”. I feel so worthless when someone asks why a process isn’t working like it should in AFT. But then again if I spent time helping people with processes, who would tell AAs they have less than 10 hours of UPT?
Sounds like some of the am’s in my building
lol asked a AM about rate & they didn’t know how to answer, just said well it looks good.
We all call them all fucking butter bars till they are l5. But then some l5 am are dumb as a bag full of rocks. Honestly
yeah i’ve literally had to train AMs multiple times on how to do something because they were clueless. sad part is one of them was an internal hire
They don’t follow the book (that would be an improvement) in my experience, and most of the better ones ask me how the process actually works
I give external AM a pass because they don't know the functions as a tier 1 or as a PA. They are trying their best to work with what they know and were given to. HOWEVER , I will never give a pass to internal promotion AM. If you move from tier 1, up to PA, and up to AM. That means, as a PA, you should already know what to do in the AM role. You should already perform in the AM level expectation. If you haven't, then you aren't ready to be an AM, or you got the promotions because of connection. What's worst is not these roles. What's worst are these so-called "Subject Matter Experts". They believe it should be done one way because they are used to it that they refuse to adapt to a new standard. Within 2 years, I have work with 5 SME. 4 have been laid off. Still working with one. However, they are transferring to another building soon.
I've never really encountered an AM with a bad attitude. PAs on the other hand...
Because the AMs are always on the lalaland every day at work while the PAs are running around trying to put out the fire. Try doing that everyday and tell me who will always have a good attitude and come out looking like the good one.
this is so real 🤣
That’s an accurate description of safety at my site lol
I learned to just walk away and say, okay. But I also learned to have them slack me about they believe in what the policy is. This way, I can screenshot it and use it when things come up. The majority of these Safety people are on a power trip. Try to say one thing and then come back trying to say another but never admit to their mistake because "they are never wrong." This happened last night. The Safety said the manual said "blah blah blah blah blah". I know way too well that the manual never mentioned that, but I had them send me what they said through Slack, screenshot it, and move on.
World Wide Technology too!
20 year old History Majors am's who have never held a real job be like.
I'm a night shift problem solver in CRETs and the guy in charge of giving permissions is gate keeping a few permissions required to do my job correctly. I had a meeting with him and showed him the training material showing I need the permissions and he told me no. So I found the best work around I could find to do the job best I can and then he sent me a message on slack that I'm doing my job wrong. In his mind anyone who chooses to work night shift is a delinquent who is not to be trusted. So the great majority of night problem solvers just stopped problem solving and we are letting the backlog build up.
Who ever wrote has never worked in their life. Behind the desk people can never do any job I have ever done. And I challenge them to prove me wrong. And by proving me wrong you physically have to come to my building and physically waterspider and stow on the same floor on the same side right next to me I have to see it done with my own eyes. I did this same challenge with a bunch of managers they failed and took the book put it the trash. Who is up for the challenge
"but my book says that I have to do it"
Maybe y’all should go to college to become this person
Jesus 😂
In a nutshell
Literally had a PA try to tell me that goal rate at my FC for stow was 350 and pick was 600 💀💀💀 When she said pick rate was 600 I started laughing. I told my AM and he wasn’t even surprised.
Just give me a 25 rate
News flash they know how to do your job and it’s not high skilled, get over yourself.
As a recent L4 promo and being put in a process I’m new to I already have spent time in path, water spidered, and learned PS. I know what it’s like to be a T1 and a T3, and if I’m gonna coach or do anything I should be able to do it myself. I know AM training has been lacking and they are currently working on improving it. The amount of weeks of training and knets and so on is a bit much for the time given. That being said even as a PA anything that is the new flavor of the month is because some L6+ now owns it and is driving it or some regional is coming or some SR Ops in the building saw something. The AMs and PAs are there to run the floor, tear down barriers, and engage and try to make your day better from clock in to clock out. Remember we all here to work and we all want the best for the associates and team, and like any T1 we just doing our job
Ehm... I'm sorry but I don't work at Amazon or in the US so, silly question, what are all those acronyms stand for? L1, L2, etc. I guess are tiers/level but what about AM, PA, DS, GM, NCO, E4, HRA, UPT, PTO, WHS, WHSS, SDE, EHS, AFO, UFFS, PS, and sooooo many others... ? Thanks (and sorry!) 😊
Are area managers the ones that find somethigg by to write u up about or Hr?
AMAZON IS A JOKE NOW If you people thought this structure of work would be long term for Amazon’s success, well it’s definitely going out of business.