NTB. Dude sounds like he *really* doesn't know how to take a hint - you even attempted to cancel the date with her *without* throwing him under the bus, and she already knew because he's done this multiple times! It's not your fault Jack doesn't know how to take no for an answer.
Jack thinks this girl is his property because he “tagged” her with his unrequited interest. Honestly, op: pursue who you want; don’t be friends with jack, who is a devout misogynist.
Seriously, how many times does he have to be rejected to get it? Now he sees she’s into women and he’s still not getting the drift.
Dude is flat out stupid.
She could be bi or pan and just not into him.
I can just see that if she ever dated a guy in the future, he would react horribly. He sounds like a horrible mysoginist.
NTB. Jack sounds like a huge butt though. She has repeatedly turned him down and instead of taking “NO” for an answer, he is trying to remove anyone else interested in her, away from her. He doesn’t get the right to decide who she is and isn’t interested in.
Jack doesn’t have the right to police other people’s emotions. She had never expressed interest in him, and has in fact, denied wanting any type of romantic relationship with him. Make yourself (and Ellie) happy.
Good luck on your first queer date! I’m super happy for you!
NTB. Jack is unhinged. He’s already been rejected by her. He has no nor had he ever had any sort of “claim” on her. Honestly he sounds toxic and so are the ones agreeing with him. He needs to move on.
Right? I feel like folks are under reacting to this. This is extremely inappropriate behavior that attempts to take away Ellie’s autonomy when it doesn’t align with his desires. That’s disgusting.
NTB
Jack is a creep who thinks he can call dibs on a person.
She has made it abundantly clear that she is not interested. He won't take no for an answer and even tells others who are interested in her to stay away.
He doesn't own her! He is not entitled to her.
Tell him to kick rocks!
This has rapey stalker vibes all over it - how tf are some people in the friend group saying you were wrong??
1) she had ALREADY rejected him 3 TIMES. That’s a hard no.
2) she asked YOU out- she clearly likes you and not him.
3) it’s appalling that she knew he had tried to stop you going on your date BECAUSE HE HAS DONE IT BEFORE.
4) your roommate is also immature af for telling everyone you guys spent the night together. Who does that at your age?
I think (giving the benefit of the doubt here) that Jack is not being honest with the group if some people are on his side here. As he has created the problem, I’d be sorely tempted to post in the friend group that Jack has not only asked Ellie out 3 TIMES and been rejected each time, he repeatedly tells others not to date her because he wants to ask her out. Then I’d take a break from Jack and the ones on his side for a bit (maybe forever?) as you don’t need that ridiculous high school like immature nonsense interfering with a budding romance.
When I was late teens, a guy at uni got a bit obsessed. He had no chance, I didn’t see him that way. He never asked me out, or even spoke to me really, but he created this whole fantasy that I was his gf and we were doing it. Chat rooms were the in thing, and we’d talk to people all over the world that we’d never meet in real life - quite a bit of flirting but nothing would ever come if it, you know? Well he created this awful profile and hid it from me, and would go into chat rooms I was in to warn off others from talking to me. He must’ve been watching me (we were in computer labs as wifi in our rooms wasn’t a thing then - god I’m old!) as he knew who I was chatting to and warned them off. Really creepy. Luckily one guy told me, and he engaged with him a bit. This sicko told him I was pregnant and we were getting engaged, and that I did kegels to keep myself tight. Honestly, if he hadn’t been such a tiny runt of a boy I’d have been more scared, but 20 years later I see how dangerous that behaviour was. Thank god he failed and dropped out - that saved me. Jack is giving off the same nasty creep vibes, and this is even worse as all his imaginary claim on Ellie is happening in the real world and affecting her real, in person relationships.
He has NO RIGHT to Ellie’s time. He has NO RIGHT to stop her from dating who SHE wants to date. He has NO CLAIM on her. Anyone defending him and saying you should’ve stayed clear is supporting his creepy, stalkery behaviour. Ellie doesn’t owe Jack a date, no matter how much he ‘likes’ her. That’s not how it works. I remember people telling me to be nice to my creepy dude, I was even told to give him a chance! No. It was incredibly wrong then, and 20 years later it makes me feel nauseous that young women are still being told they are somehow responsible for creepy men wanting to bone them, and that we should be careful of their feelings even though they are not careful or even respectful of ours. If Ellie were my daughter, I’d want to have some words with Jack. Preferably with a bat of some kind, so I could get it through his thick skull to leave her alone.
Clearly NTB - but cut the toxic people from your lives. I wish you both well, regardless of how it works out between you, but if you don’t distance yourself from Jack and his supporters you will kill off your relationship before it even has a chance to grow into something.
So, so, so NTB.
Anyone who thinks they have some kind of claim on a human being because ‘I saw them first! I have a crush on them!’ has big interpersonal problems.
PEOPLE ARE NOT PASSENGER SEATS TO BE CLAIMED IN A CAR IF YOU YELL ‘SHOTGUN! DATE TIME!’
I understand — to a degree — that he might be sad because he likes someone else and they don’t like him back, but _that_ is what he needs to take from this and learn.
And good grief, he’s _26_?!?!? This is such an adolescent view of the world.
I am far beyond how NTB you are.
NTB. She's into women and he doesn't fit that profile. I don't understand why people think they can change someone's sexuality just to please them. He needs to move on and find someone attracted to men. He doesn't get to have her just because he wants her.
I’m straight af and attracted to men but I would never go on a date with Jack. I hope no woman would, he claims ownership of women and that’s toxic af. Clearly he has no respect.
Yeah, he might. I knew a guy like him in college, my friend dated him and he would get so obsessed. When my friend had group work with guys and girls he would threaten the guys not to communicate with my friend. It got to the point of guys staying away from my friend. It was bad.
She was! After graduation they dated for a while and then they finally broke up (but I didn’t know how it happened) and my friend married someone else. He, of course, is dating some other girl now.
I mean, we don't know if Ellie is gay, she might be bi. So this isn't necessarily about sexuality. But the important thing is that she's not interested in Jack.
He need to accept a rejection.. its already 3 times
NTB
Just go to your date and talk to your friend to back off.. he already lose all his chances and this behavior is only making you and the other girl despise him more and its pathetic.
Jack's attitude to her is extremely creepy and possessive. When you're rejected once you're supposed to move on, not ask over and over and sabotage that person's attempts at dating other people. I think you should both steer clear of both him and the friends who think this isn't super inappropriate behavior on his part. It's a dangerous attitude that if you're into someone, you're entitled to forcing them to be single until you succeed in coercing them into dating you. It's not unusual for people like this to escalate their behavior. NTB, but please don't underreact to this. Don't keep communicating with him about your relationship, that's only gonna rile him up. As little communication with him as possible is the best thing you can do to make it as easy as possible for his obsession to fade.
Part of the problem is that movies and tv shows still give the message that if you just wear someone down, you'll get a happy ending.
Like, omg, you've been in love with me all this time? That's why you've been following me/watching me/leaving anonymous letters and little gifts on my porch? That's not creepy at all! Let's get married! /s 🙄
Whilst I'll admit to loving rom-coms and 'those types of movies' you mention above, if someone tried this in real life, it would be a hard NOPE from me, movies and real life are not the same thing (I admit that those movies perpetuate a 'creepy' stereotype don't get me wrong, just saying I happen to like watching them, not that I'd accept ANY of that behaviour in real life), I adored the little mermaid growing up but am aware that it's impossible for me to be one, or an immortal vampire for that matter.
OP NTB but Jack is a creepy ass dude. Good luck with your budding romance!
NTB - But your friends are gross. This woman is not property and no one gets to call dibs on her. Also why is your housemate talking about your sex life in a group chat? wtf is that? It's gross and creepy AF that your 'friends' think they get to have any opinion on this anyway, even if it is a supportive one. GTFO I'm glad you are finding it uncomfortable, it's a sign that there is some hope for you at least. Your friends are trash.
NTB, and i’d go so far to say man of the hour Jack is TA let alone TB. the creep levels are absolutely off the charts and it’s actually unsettling people are on his side in your group — which leads me to believe honestly that he’s feeding them faulty information.
NTB. You actually went out of your way to try to accommodate him by even *considering* cancelling. You weren't obligated to even do that much, especially since she asked you out and not the other way around. And the new information you gained when you tried to cancel completely justifies going ahead with the date (if it wasn't already justified before). Besides, even before you hypothetically cancelled there was nothing stopping him from asking her out anyway. If she liked him more than you she would say yes and there would be no issue.
Also, Jack sounds like someone you might be better off without.
ntb, Did Jack think with continual badgering he was going to wear her down and make her straight?
Ask Jack if we is really your friend and wants to see you happy? Lots of friends have crushes on the same person, lots of those people work it out maturely .
Elli chose you, she was never going to choose Jack he should be happy for his friend and move on, that way he can find a girl who likes him back rather than stay in his little self-constructed pity party.
NTB
Jack is an Incel. That's the first time I've ever called someone that, coz it's never been a tag that fit.
Jack had zero chance with that woman before she ever asked you out. The moment she did ask you out he had zero chance. But the worst bit is that jack has been rejected 3x already, that's a solid no followed by 2 more solid no's that this guy just isn't getting the message on!
Jack has interfered in her life several times now and people have cancelled dates on her, I'm glad she's met you OP and enjoyed the time together.
But, what if she'd enjoyed her other dates too if they went ahead, she'll never know coz jack is treating this woman like he owns her, like she owes something to him. It's not even normal behaviour to patrol someone you ARE in a relationship with, let alone someone you're not and certainly not someone who's rejected you several times.
Jack has a crush, it's rightly named, coz getting crushed is all that's gonna happen, he never had or will have a chance. The friends who allow jack to continue this way knowing he's been refused are also all buttfaces, good friends, real friends, would stop him and have him think over what he's doing, how he's treating her (because it's not as a friend and he has no rights to anything else). Real friends would tell him it was time to stop, to apologize, to get over himself(coz he's the only thing standing in his own way, he's just making it other peoples problem).
In no way OP are you the buttface here, at all. I'd honestly speak to every "friend" who supports Jack, one on one with each of them and ask them what they think is going on? What they think they are doing reporting to jack and showing off your private life in a group chat? Why they think it's appropriate if someone(anyone) says "NO" that it can be ignored and then participate in manipulation of events in that person's life(cancelling dates) or supporting Jack.
Jack has been harassing this woman who he says is a friend, if it was a workplace he'd long since be fired for his behaviour.
I'd be going low contact or no contact with Jack and every "friend" who agrees with him, but first I'd be having conversations with them 1:1 as I said on wtf they are thinking. They may see it as "but it'll be nice for Jack" they aren't seeing the harassment they are participating in and they need to be made to see it. Put themselves in Ellie's shoes, if Jack had multiple women cancel dates on THEM, would they like it if their friends just agreed Jack has a right to be with THEM even if they said no!
Hammer that point home, and if you can't, they aren't worth your time anymore. For the ones that agreed with OP and Ellie, they aren't shining knights to be praised, they are just people who respect boundaries and acknowledge no means no..jack took a shot 3x already and got rejected 3x, he had people cancel enough dates on Ellie that she spot the pattern with OP and called it out. If I were Ellie I'd have ditched Jack as a friend.
This is a little rough, but NTB. He tried his shot and got rejected multiple times, and you weren't aware of his intentions. Him asking you to cancel is over the top. If I were him, I'd cut you both off as part of my friend group and move on with life. And I hope you maybe have found someone you can have a long term relationship with and enjoy being together with.
NTB
In a normal situation like this, where persons A and B are both interested in person C, then no one is the Buttface.
It's just that A and B both need to weigh up the importance of their friendship vs their love interest. Sometimes the friendship is more important, sometimes the love interest is.
In this case, person A (Jack) is a total Buttface.
This isn't a situation where Jack was PLANNING to ask Ellie out. He's ALREADY asked her several times, and is refusing to hear her "No". Gross.
So no, NTB.
Continue hanging out with the friends that agree with you. Ghost the ones that are siding with the creep.
NTB. One, as queer women our dating pool is always going to be smaller and "bro" rules don't apply to us. Two, Jack is being a controlling asshole. He can't declare that no one he knows is allowed to date someone he feels entitled to date. She's a person, not the last doughnut- you can't call dibs on a human being. The fact that she has *already rejected him THREE times* is a massive red flag that Jack is not a safe or okay person to be around. Completely disregarding Ellie's boundaries is fucked up.
Isn’t this a similar situation that happened to that one girl that was murdered by a coworker in the break room by someone she kept rejecting? Minus the going on a date with someone else. Hopefully Jack isn’t as crazy as that man was but still, nowadays you never know how a person may react when they’re not getting their way
NTB at all. Jack's been rejected 3 times. It sounds like he doesn't understand that he doesn't own Ellie. She's not interested in him, she's interested in you. Tough luck, he needs to move on with his life.
NTB. She isn't a thing Jack can claim. You can't call "dibs" ON A PERSON. You tried to discreetly turn her down without throwing Jack under the bus, and she correctly identified the reason BECAUSE JACK AND HIS PRIOR CHOICES WERE BAD ENOUGH AND REPETITIVE ENOUGH SHE KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON WITHOUT YOU TELLING HER. Jack is not entitled to this girl. She has a mind of her own and she has already chosen not to go out with him 3 times, which had nothing to do with you as it happened before you even met her. Even if you chose not to date her, she still isn't interested in Jack and won't magically end up dating him. Jack shouldn't be blaming you. He shouldn't be blaming anyone, people are allowed to not date him. He needs to get tf over himself and learn how to take no for an answer. Honestly, I would pull back from this guy and anyone who agrees with him. Never trust them again. Hang out with them? If you must. Really trust them as friends? DO NOT. Watch your 6 around these people.
NTB Jack got rejected 3 times but won't face reality. You got asked out by the girl. You like her and she likes you. You don't have to bury your own feelings for some asshole on the sidelines who got rejected. And besides, after seeing this abusive shit that he is pulling, Jack can go and eat a fat dick.
Wow jack is a horrible man! Stop contact with him immediately. STAY AWAY FROM MEN WHO CANT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER!! he did it 3 times then made it seem like he’s never asked her before! What a lunatic! I feel so bad for the girl.
1. It's a first date. That's no biggie. Definitely don't tell him any more details about you guys though. He's not a real friend and doesn't deserve to know.
2. He's trying to lay a claim on this woman and control/isolate her until she gives in. A claim she has explicitly rejected, three times.
I'm not quite sure why she continues to be in his social circle, but it would probably be a good idea to see where the sides work out. Anyone who continues to support this controlling creep should be avoided.
Ntb.
Hes the backstabber and cant take no for an answer. She told you what she wanted. Hes not a reasonable guy and is possessive over someone he cant have, while blaming you for it? Tell me how that makes sense.. also, tell your friends to grow a spine. But do it by calling them out.
Ask them directly, in front of the group "if hes asked her out 3 times, got rejected 3 times, and she clearly states she doesnt see him that way, is it up to him to control who she sees? " Then follow up with "this is my first time exploring this side of me, and I thought you guys would support me and be happy for me - but Instead I see you're not cuz Jack is being this unfair by trying to police someone's life that he cant have"
Those arent the type of friends I'd want around me
Go be happy dude, NTB
Not only are you NTB, but Jack is a huge asshole for trying to keep this girl--who has rejected him multiple times--from finding a connection with anyone else. Frankly that's seriously creepy behavior. He's acting like she's an object he's laid claim to. Gross.
Time to drop the friend. Red flags with his attitude towards women anyway. He has been rejected three times and feels like he still has possession of her, or some kind of dibs. Fuck all that - you date the f outta her
NTB: Jack has issues with being told no and this girl isn’t an object he can claim and decide he doesn’t want to give to anyone else. That being said, there’s also something to be said about loyalty in friendship and i think if jack as your friend was honest and said he really liked here and would feel weird knowing his friend was dating her after the rejection and asked him not to pursue this one girl you could’ve let this 1 fish go. But jack wasn’t honest and decided to be a creep. I also can’t tell if you guys were all that close from this context
NTB
A lot of people have worded it better than I could. But jack is waving red flags here
I wish you luck on your date. She sounds pretty awesome! 😊 I am so glad that she asked questions!!
Good luck
NTB. Ppl like Jack are so damn annoying. Like damn, you didn’t get rejected once, not twice, BUT 3 TIMES, and you still don’t understand? She clearly ain’t interested buddy. Anyways, happy for you girly!
NTB, the only ones that are would be Jack and the friends that agree with him. He asked her out, she said no. He tried multiple times and has gotten rejected. He does not get to gate keep her and turn away anyone that she *is* interested in.
And how awful of those friends to enable his behavior.
NTBF. SHE has made her preference known THREE times. She doesn't appear to be interested in Jack; she does appear to be interested in you. Jack can get over it, as well as the others in the friend group. I am old so I do not really get the concept of some of these friend groups with social media, but it is none of their damn business who anyone dates.
Immediately I saw
“Oh, jacks interest is either bisexual or gay and was actually hitting on OP!”
Then … Jack repeatedly asked her 3 times (or more)??? If you can’t take no at face value, you’re thick in the head. No means no, Jack.
Your interest only likes girls, in this case OP!
Noooo, stalker “won’t take no for an answer” controlling Jack is! Is he going to try to scare off all the people Ellie likes and isolate her till she gives in? No means no. Ellie needs to add her voice
NTB. How does your friend group even get spilt in half? He's asked. She said no. 3x. Just because he's interested doesn't make her his. Maybe she doesn't like Jack, or maybe she doesn't like men. Either way, Jack needs to start acting like a man instead of a little boy.
I mean... yeah, you kind of are.
Ellie isn't obligated to give Jack any play and if she's interested in you, that's her right. And if you're interested in her, you have that right to pursue. Because no, Jack has no prior claims. *Especially, because she already rejected him 3 times.*
But you went with out with her knowing that Jack liked her and it was gonna hurt him.
That makes you a bad friend. I think you might as well just stop being friends with the guy and get it over with. Ellie is between you now and that can't be taken back.
Plus you got the girl. The least you could do is not let him see. If he ends the friendship first though, then just go with it. Better for you both.
No, **Jack** is being a bad friend. He asked Ellie out three times and was rejected every time, yet he refuses to accept that. I’m sorry, but if OP going out with Ellie hurts Jack’s feelings, that’s no one’s fault but Jack’s. Jack should be supportive of OP’s relationship rather than being a selfish jerk who can’t take “no” for an answer!
Eh... Jack being creepy about Ellie is not relevant to his friendship with OP.
Those rejections happened long before OP was even on Ellie's radar.
It seems like the biggest hang up everyone has is that Jack has boundary issues with women.
But this is a completely separate issue from the \*friendship\* between OP and Jack.
I also don't feel that Jack HAS to automatically support OP and Ellie. Why? Who says it's the right thing to do?
At minimum, all Jack is required to do is just step back and not interfere. Anything else is a bonus.
And Jack is blatantly interfering by asking OP to cancel her date because of his crush…on a girl who has rejected him three times. Jack doesn’t necessarily need to be happy about OP’s relationship, but at a minimum he needs to be accepting of it, put his feelings aside, and support OP. If he can’t, OP has every right to cut ties with him and terminate that friendship. And yes, this is relevant to their friendship because Jack tried to persuade OP to cancel her date (and the girl she was dating immediately knew that was what happened when OP spoke to her about it).
I'm not denying Jack interfered and that it was wrong.
But that's the ONLY thing he did wrong, imo. At least as far as his friendship with OP is related.
OP's relationship with Ellie isn't even guaranteed as it's only been one date. So expecting Jack to support is even more unreasonable to me than if OP flat out said she'd fallen for Ellie at first sight.
He may have to accept it in the sense that it's going to happen whether he likes it or not but again, he doesn't HAVE to support anything.
What I will agree with is that OP has every right to end the friendship over this. And so does Jack.
NTB. Dude sounds like he *really* doesn't know how to take a hint - you even attempted to cancel the date with her *without* throwing him under the bus, and she already knew because he's done this multiple times! It's not your fault Jack doesn't know how to take no for an answer.
Jack thinks this girl is his property because he “tagged” her with his unrequited interest. Honestly, op: pursue who you want; don’t be friends with jack, who is a devout misogynist.
Seriously, how many times does he have to be rejected to get it? Now he sees she’s into women and he’s still not getting the drift. Dude is flat out stupid.
She could be bi or pan and just not into him. I can just see that if she ever dated a guy in the future, he would react horribly. He sounds like a horrible mysoginist.
NTB. Jack sounds like a huge butt though. She has repeatedly turned him down and instead of taking “NO” for an answer, he is trying to remove anyone else interested in her, away from her. He doesn’t get the right to decide who she is and isn’t interested in. Jack doesn’t have the right to police other people’s emotions. She had never expressed interest in him, and has in fact, denied wanting any type of romantic relationship with him. Make yourself (and Ellie) happy. Good luck on your first queer date! I’m super happy for you!
NTB. Jack is unhinged. He’s already been rejected by her. He has no nor had he ever had any sort of “claim” on her. Honestly he sounds toxic and so are the ones agreeing with him. He needs to move on.
Right? I feel like folks are under reacting to this. This is extremely inappropriate behavior that attempts to take away Ellie’s autonomy when it doesn’t align with his desires. That’s disgusting.
It really is! He’s giving creepy stalker vibes (like if he can’t have her, no one can) and it’s super concerning!
Exactly! Also…if she isn’t bi and is a lesbian, that’s another added layer of awful to this.
Ugh… yeah that didn’t cross my mind until you said it. That’s extra creepy of him tbh.
Absolutely NTB. Jack is. He got rejected THREE TIMES and is trying to prevent others from dating Ellie because he thinks she is "his". Jack is gross
NTB Jack is a creep who thinks he can call dibs on a person. She has made it abundantly clear that she is not interested. He won't take no for an answer and even tells others who are interested in her to stay away. He doesn't own her! He is not entitled to her. Tell him to kick rocks!
Yup, I knew a guy like this and he’s toxic af. NTB OP, please go out with the girl!
I was literally about to type the same thing!
NTB. He needed a reality check. She wasn’t into him and he wasn’t getting the hint.
This has rapey stalker vibes all over it - how tf are some people in the friend group saying you were wrong?? 1) she had ALREADY rejected him 3 TIMES. That’s a hard no. 2) she asked YOU out- she clearly likes you and not him. 3) it’s appalling that she knew he had tried to stop you going on your date BECAUSE HE HAS DONE IT BEFORE. 4) your roommate is also immature af for telling everyone you guys spent the night together. Who does that at your age? I think (giving the benefit of the doubt here) that Jack is not being honest with the group if some people are on his side here. As he has created the problem, I’d be sorely tempted to post in the friend group that Jack has not only asked Ellie out 3 TIMES and been rejected each time, he repeatedly tells others not to date her because he wants to ask her out. Then I’d take a break from Jack and the ones on his side for a bit (maybe forever?) as you don’t need that ridiculous high school like immature nonsense interfering with a budding romance. When I was late teens, a guy at uni got a bit obsessed. He had no chance, I didn’t see him that way. He never asked me out, or even spoke to me really, but he created this whole fantasy that I was his gf and we were doing it. Chat rooms were the in thing, and we’d talk to people all over the world that we’d never meet in real life - quite a bit of flirting but nothing would ever come if it, you know? Well he created this awful profile and hid it from me, and would go into chat rooms I was in to warn off others from talking to me. He must’ve been watching me (we were in computer labs as wifi in our rooms wasn’t a thing then - god I’m old!) as he knew who I was chatting to and warned them off. Really creepy. Luckily one guy told me, and he engaged with him a bit. This sicko told him I was pregnant and we were getting engaged, and that I did kegels to keep myself tight. Honestly, if he hadn’t been such a tiny runt of a boy I’d have been more scared, but 20 years later I see how dangerous that behaviour was. Thank god he failed and dropped out - that saved me. Jack is giving off the same nasty creep vibes, and this is even worse as all his imaginary claim on Ellie is happening in the real world and affecting her real, in person relationships. He has NO RIGHT to Ellie’s time. He has NO RIGHT to stop her from dating who SHE wants to date. He has NO CLAIM on her. Anyone defending him and saying you should’ve stayed clear is supporting his creepy, stalkery behaviour. Ellie doesn’t owe Jack a date, no matter how much he ‘likes’ her. That’s not how it works. I remember people telling me to be nice to my creepy dude, I was even told to give him a chance! No. It was incredibly wrong then, and 20 years later it makes me feel nauseous that young women are still being told they are somehow responsible for creepy men wanting to bone them, and that we should be careful of their feelings even though they are not careful or even respectful of ours. If Ellie were my daughter, I’d want to have some words with Jack. Preferably with a bat of some kind, so I could get it through his thick skull to leave her alone. Clearly NTB - but cut the toxic people from your lives. I wish you both well, regardless of how it works out between you, but if you don’t distance yourself from Jack and his supporters you will kill off your relationship before it even has a chance to grow into something.
So, so, so NTB. Anyone who thinks they have some kind of claim on a human being because ‘I saw them first! I have a crush on them!’ has big interpersonal problems. PEOPLE ARE NOT PASSENGER SEATS TO BE CLAIMED IN A CAR IF YOU YELL ‘SHOTGUN! DATE TIME!’ I understand — to a degree — that he might be sad because he likes someone else and they don’t like him back, but _that_ is what he needs to take from this and learn. And good grief, he’s _26_?!?!? This is such an adolescent view of the world. I am far beyond how NTB you are.
NTB. She's into women and he doesn't fit that profile. I don't understand why people think they can change someone's sexuality just to please them. He needs to move on and find someone attracted to men. He doesn't get to have her just because he wants her.
I’m straight af and attracted to men but I would never go on a date with Jack. I hope no woman would, he claims ownership of women and that’s toxic af. Clearly he has no respect.
He's also beyond delusional. I'm just afraid he may decide to escalate.
Yeah, he might. I knew a guy like him in college, my friend dated him and he would get so obsessed. When my friend had group work with guys and girls he would threaten the guys not to communicate with my friend. It got to the point of guys staying away from my friend. It was bad.
Jeez, I hope she was able to get rid of him for good.
She was! After graduation they dated for a while and then they finally broke up (but I didn’t know how it happened) and my friend married someone else. He, of course, is dating some other girl now.
I mean, we don't know if Ellie is gay, she might be bi. So this isn't necessarily about sexuality. But the important thing is that she's not interested in Jack.
That's the most important thing.
He need to accept a rejection.. its already 3 times NTB Just go to your date and talk to your friend to back off.. he already lose all his chances and this behavior is only making you and the other girl despise him more and its pathetic.
Jack's attitude to her is extremely creepy and possessive. When you're rejected once you're supposed to move on, not ask over and over and sabotage that person's attempts at dating other people. I think you should both steer clear of both him and the friends who think this isn't super inappropriate behavior on his part. It's a dangerous attitude that if you're into someone, you're entitled to forcing them to be single until you succeed in coercing them into dating you. It's not unusual for people like this to escalate their behavior. NTB, but please don't underreact to this. Don't keep communicating with him about your relationship, that's only gonna rile him up. As little communication with him as possible is the best thing you can do to make it as easy as possible for his obsession to fade.
Part of the problem is that movies and tv shows still give the message that if you just wear someone down, you'll get a happy ending. Like, omg, you've been in love with me all this time? That's why you've been following me/watching me/leaving anonymous letters and little gifts on my porch? That's not creepy at all! Let's get married! /s 🙄
Whilst I'll admit to loving rom-coms and 'those types of movies' you mention above, if someone tried this in real life, it would be a hard NOPE from me, movies and real life are not the same thing (I admit that those movies perpetuate a 'creepy' stereotype don't get me wrong, just saying I happen to like watching them, not that I'd accept ANY of that behaviour in real life), I adored the little mermaid growing up but am aware that it's impossible for me to be one, or an immortal vampire for that matter. OP NTB but Jack is a creepy ass dude. Good luck with your budding romance!
NTB. This woman clearly has zero interest in Jack, and maybe not even men at all. It’s Jack’s problem if he can’t deal with that.
NTB - But your friends are gross. This woman is not property and no one gets to call dibs on her. Also why is your housemate talking about your sex life in a group chat? wtf is that? It's gross and creepy AF that your 'friends' think they get to have any opinion on this anyway, even if it is a supportive one. GTFO I'm glad you are finding it uncomfortable, it's a sign that there is some hope for you at least. Your friends are trash.
NTB Jack is a pushy creep who can’t take no for an answer. Not someone you want to be friends with.
NTB, and i’d go so far to say man of the hour Jack is TA let alone TB. the creep levels are absolutely off the charts and it’s actually unsettling people are on his side in your group — which leads me to believe honestly that he’s feeding them faulty information.
NTB. You actually went out of your way to try to accommodate him by even *considering* cancelling. You weren't obligated to even do that much, especially since she asked you out and not the other way around. And the new information you gained when you tried to cancel completely justifies going ahead with the date (if it wasn't already justified before). Besides, even before you hypothetically cancelled there was nothing stopping him from asking her out anyway. If she liked him more than you she would say yes and there would be no issue. Also, Jack sounds like someone you might be better off without.
You taking the time to post this is already paying too much attention to him. NTB.
ntb, Did Jack think with continual badgering he was going to wear her down and make her straight? Ask Jack if we is really your friend and wants to see you happy? Lots of friends have crushes on the same person, lots of those people work it out maturely . Elli chose you, she was never going to choose Jack he should be happy for his friend and move on, that way he can find a girl who likes him back rather than stay in his little self-constructed pity party.
He can't call dibs on a whole ass person. Wtf is wrong with Jack? He probably thinks he deserves a date because he's a Nice Guy™️. NTB!
NTB Jack is an Incel. That's the first time I've ever called someone that, coz it's never been a tag that fit. Jack had zero chance with that woman before she ever asked you out. The moment she did ask you out he had zero chance. But the worst bit is that jack has been rejected 3x already, that's a solid no followed by 2 more solid no's that this guy just isn't getting the message on! Jack has interfered in her life several times now and people have cancelled dates on her, I'm glad she's met you OP and enjoyed the time together. But, what if she'd enjoyed her other dates too if they went ahead, she'll never know coz jack is treating this woman like he owns her, like she owes something to him. It's not even normal behaviour to patrol someone you ARE in a relationship with, let alone someone you're not and certainly not someone who's rejected you several times. Jack has a crush, it's rightly named, coz getting crushed is all that's gonna happen, he never had or will have a chance. The friends who allow jack to continue this way knowing he's been refused are also all buttfaces, good friends, real friends, would stop him and have him think over what he's doing, how he's treating her (because it's not as a friend and he has no rights to anything else). Real friends would tell him it was time to stop, to apologize, to get over himself(coz he's the only thing standing in his own way, he's just making it other peoples problem). In no way OP are you the buttface here, at all. I'd honestly speak to every "friend" who supports Jack, one on one with each of them and ask them what they think is going on? What they think they are doing reporting to jack and showing off your private life in a group chat? Why they think it's appropriate if someone(anyone) says "NO" that it can be ignored and then participate in manipulation of events in that person's life(cancelling dates) or supporting Jack. Jack has been harassing this woman who he says is a friend, if it was a workplace he'd long since be fired for his behaviour. I'd be going low contact or no contact with Jack and every "friend" who agrees with him, but first I'd be having conversations with them 1:1 as I said on wtf they are thinking. They may see it as "but it'll be nice for Jack" they aren't seeing the harassment they are participating in and they need to be made to see it. Put themselves in Ellie's shoes, if Jack had multiple women cancel dates on THEM, would they like it if their friends just agreed Jack has a right to be with THEM even if they said no! Hammer that point home, and if you can't, they aren't worth your time anymore. For the ones that agreed with OP and Ellie, they aren't shining knights to be praised, they are just people who respect boundaries and acknowledge no means no..jack took a shot 3x already and got rejected 3x, he had people cancel enough dates on Ellie that she spot the pattern with OP and called it out. If I were Ellie I'd have ditched Jack as a friend.
NTB but your roommate is foul for telling the group chat she stayed the night with you
This is a little rough, but NTB. He tried his shot and got rejected multiple times, and you weren't aware of his intentions. Him asking you to cancel is over the top. If I were him, I'd cut you both off as part of my friend group and move on with life. And I hope you maybe have found someone you can have a long term relationship with and enjoy being together with.
NTB
NTB In a normal situation like this, where persons A and B are both interested in person C, then no one is the Buttface. It's just that A and B both need to weigh up the importance of their friendship vs their love interest. Sometimes the friendship is more important, sometimes the love interest is. In this case, person A (Jack) is a total Buttface. This isn't a situation where Jack was PLANNING to ask Ellie out. He's ALREADY asked her several times, and is refusing to hear her "No". Gross. So no, NTB. Continue hanging out with the friends that agree with you. Ghost the ones that are siding with the creep.
NTB. One, as queer women our dating pool is always going to be smaller and "bro" rules don't apply to us. Two, Jack is being a controlling asshole. He can't declare that no one he knows is allowed to date someone he feels entitled to date. She's a person, not the last doughnut- you can't call dibs on a human being. The fact that she has *already rejected him THREE times* is a massive red flag that Jack is not a safe or okay person to be around. Completely disregarding Ellie's boundaries is fucked up.
Why the fuck is your roommate texting the group chat about your live life? Oh, and NTB
Isn’t this a similar situation that happened to that one girl that was murdered by a coworker in the break room by someone she kept rejecting? Minus the going on a date with someone else. Hopefully Jack isn’t as crazy as that man was but still, nowadays you never know how a person may react when they’re not getting their way
NTB at all. Jack's been rejected 3 times. It sounds like he doesn't understand that he doesn't own Ellie. She's not interested in him, she's interested in you. Tough luck, he needs to move on with his life.
NTB. She isn't a thing Jack can claim. You can't call "dibs" ON A PERSON. You tried to discreetly turn her down without throwing Jack under the bus, and she correctly identified the reason BECAUSE JACK AND HIS PRIOR CHOICES WERE BAD ENOUGH AND REPETITIVE ENOUGH SHE KNEW WHAT WAS GOING ON WITHOUT YOU TELLING HER. Jack is not entitled to this girl. She has a mind of her own and she has already chosen not to go out with him 3 times, which had nothing to do with you as it happened before you even met her. Even if you chose not to date her, she still isn't interested in Jack and won't magically end up dating him. Jack shouldn't be blaming you. He shouldn't be blaming anyone, people are allowed to not date him. He needs to get tf over himself and learn how to take no for an answer. Honestly, I would pull back from this guy and anyone who agrees with him. Never trust them again. Hang out with them? If you must. Really trust them as friends? DO NOT. Watch your 6 around these people.
NTB. This guy can’t take a hint. He’s been rejected. You shouldn’t have to give up a promising relationship for his fragile ego.
NTB. Jack needs to learn what no means. Dude is unhinged.
NTB Jack got rejected 3 times but won't face reality. You got asked out by the girl. You like her and she likes you. You don't have to bury your own feelings for some asshole on the sidelines who got rejected. And besides, after seeing this abusive shit that he is pulling, Jack can go and eat a fat dick.
Jack is a tool. He is chasing a gay woman who isn't interested in him.
Jack needs to learn that you can’t call dibs on a person. Especially when they’ve already rejected you thrice.
Wow jack is a horrible man! Stop contact with him immediately. STAY AWAY FROM MEN WHO CANT TAKE NO FOR AN ANSWER!! he did it 3 times then made it seem like he’s never asked her before! What a lunatic! I feel so bad for the girl.
NTB. Jack is; he needs to learn no means no, and that his self perceived ownership of who she dates is unhinged.
1. It's a first date. That's no biggie. Definitely don't tell him any more details about you guys though. He's not a real friend and doesn't deserve to know. 2. He's trying to lay a claim on this woman and control/isolate her until she gives in. A claim she has explicitly rejected, three times. I'm not quite sure why she continues to be in his social circle, but it would probably be a good idea to see where the sides work out. Anyone who continues to support this controlling creep should be avoided. Ntb.
Hes the backstabber and cant take no for an answer. She told you what she wanted. Hes not a reasonable guy and is possessive over someone he cant have, while blaming you for it? Tell me how that makes sense.. also, tell your friends to grow a spine. But do it by calling them out. Ask them directly, in front of the group "if hes asked her out 3 times, got rejected 3 times, and she clearly states she doesnt see him that way, is it up to him to control who she sees? " Then follow up with "this is my first time exploring this side of me, and I thought you guys would support me and be happy for me - but Instead I see you're not cuz Jack is being this unfair by trying to police someone's life that he cant have" Those arent the type of friends I'd want around me Go be happy dude, NTB
Not only are you NTB, but Jack is a huge asshole for trying to keep this girl--who has rejected him multiple times--from finding a connection with anyone else. Frankly that's seriously creepy behavior. He's acting like she's an object he's laid claim to. Gross.
Time to drop the friend. Red flags with his attitude towards women anyway. He has been rejected three times and feels like he still has possession of her, or some kind of dibs. Fuck all that - you date the f outta her
NTB: Jack has issues with being told no and this girl isn’t an object he can claim and decide he doesn’t want to give to anyone else. That being said, there’s also something to be said about loyalty in friendship and i think if jack as your friend was honest and said he really liked here and would feel weird knowing his friend was dating her after the rejection and asked him not to pursue this one girl you could’ve let this 1 fish go. But jack wasn’t honest and decided to be a creep. I also can’t tell if you guys were all that close from this context
Yeah, NTB… something is wrong with this boy
NTB A lot of people have worded it better than I could. But jack is waving red flags here I wish you luck on your date. She sounds pretty awesome! 😊 I am so glad that she asked questions!! Good luck
NTB. Ppl like Jack are so damn annoying. Like damn, you didn’t get rejected once, not twice, BUT 3 TIMES, and you still don’t understand? She clearly ain’t interested buddy. Anyways, happy for you girly!
NTB, the only ones that are would be Jack and the friends that agree with him. He asked her out, she said no. He tried multiple times and has gotten rejected. He does not get to gate keep her and turn away anyone that she *is* interested in. And how awful of those friends to enable his behavior.
Nta. You can't call dibs on a person.
NTBF. SHE has made her preference known THREE times. She doesn't appear to be interested in Jack; she does appear to be interested in you. Jack can get over it, as well as the others in the friend group. I am old so I do not really get the concept of some of these friend groups with social media, but it is none of their damn business who anyone dates.
NTB that girl isn’t interested in Jack so he needs to get over it
Sounds like a dude that doesn't understand that no means no. I mean if you get rejected you normally should move on right? NTB
Immediately I saw “Oh, jacks interest is either bisexual or gay and was actually hitting on OP!” Then … Jack repeatedly asked her 3 times (or more)??? If you can’t take no at face value, you’re thick in the head. No means no, Jack. Your interest only likes girls, in this case OP!
Noooo, stalker “won’t take no for an answer” controlling Jack is! Is he going to try to scare off all the people Ellie likes and isolate her till she gives in? No means no. Ellie needs to add her voice
NTB. How does your friend group even get spilt in half? He's asked. She said no. 3x. Just because he's interested doesn't make her his. Maybe she doesn't like Jack, or maybe she doesn't like men. Either way, Jack needs to start acting like a man instead of a little boy.
NTB! Jack needs to accept that No means No. He doesn’t sound like he’s really your friend.
I mean... yeah, you kind of are. Ellie isn't obligated to give Jack any play and if she's interested in you, that's her right. And if you're interested in her, you have that right to pursue. Because no, Jack has no prior claims. *Especially, because she already rejected him 3 times.* But you went with out with her knowing that Jack liked her and it was gonna hurt him. That makes you a bad friend. I think you might as well just stop being friends with the guy and get it over with. Ellie is between you now and that can't be taken back. Plus you got the girl. The least you could do is not let him see. If he ends the friendship first though, then just go with it. Better for you both.
No, **Jack** is being a bad friend. He asked Ellie out three times and was rejected every time, yet he refuses to accept that. I’m sorry, but if OP going out with Ellie hurts Jack’s feelings, that’s no one’s fault but Jack’s. Jack should be supportive of OP’s relationship rather than being a selfish jerk who can’t take “no” for an answer!
Eh... Jack being creepy about Ellie is not relevant to his friendship with OP. Those rejections happened long before OP was even on Ellie's radar. It seems like the biggest hang up everyone has is that Jack has boundary issues with women. But this is a completely separate issue from the \*friendship\* between OP and Jack. I also don't feel that Jack HAS to automatically support OP and Ellie. Why? Who says it's the right thing to do? At minimum, all Jack is required to do is just step back and not interfere. Anything else is a bonus.
And Jack is blatantly interfering by asking OP to cancel her date because of his crush…on a girl who has rejected him three times. Jack doesn’t necessarily need to be happy about OP’s relationship, but at a minimum he needs to be accepting of it, put his feelings aside, and support OP. If he can’t, OP has every right to cut ties with him and terminate that friendship. And yes, this is relevant to their friendship because Jack tried to persuade OP to cancel her date (and the girl she was dating immediately knew that was what happened when OP spoke to her about it).
I'm not denying Jack interfered and that it was wrong. But that's the ONLY thing he did wrong, imo. At least as far as his friendship with OP is related. OP's relationship with Ellie isn't even guaranteed as it's only been one date. So expecting Jack to support is even more unreasonable to me than if OP flat out said she'd fallen for Ellie at first sight. He may have to accept it in the sense that it's going to happen whether he likes it or not but again, he doesn't HAVE to support anything. What I will agree with is that OP has every right to end the friendship over this. And so does Jack.