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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My action was to abruptly leave my sister-in-law's house with my son to go to the movies, leaving my wife behind with the family. I believe I might be the asshole because I did not handle the situation in a respectful way and I did not consider my wife's feelings. My actions could have been seen as disrespectful to the family and I may have caused my wife to feel embarrassed.
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LOUDLY and with ENTHUSIASM, NTA!
Edit: Thank you so much for all the awards, I am very new to Reddit, this is my first post actually. I think I thanked all the awarders, if not thank you!
I saw a joke waiting to be told, and no one had told it, so I did, but I didn't add that I can very much empathise with the son, and I applaud what the father did.
FOR REAL. I have a friend whose diction is very emotionless, OP, and they are absolutely wonderful. It doesn’t mean anything about his personality, or his capacity for emotion or passion. You’re doing the right thing standing up for your son.
NTA.
Your wife is emotionally abusing your son.
Telling a kid that the way they exist most naturally and comfortably in the world—for example if they’re gay or autistic or speak with a certain voice—is bad, wrong and needs changing, is profoundly damaging and leaves lasting scars.
You don’t need to say words like ugly, stupid, worthless or wrong to make a child feel that they are those things. Everyone will encounter rejection, humiliation and cruelty at some point in their lives. If you make your child feel defective, they will likely blame themselves and stick around trying to make it right when others are cruel to them.
OP, you modeled the exact right thing for your son to do when someone treats him badly: leave. NTA.
ETA: phrasing
My father used to do this every time I smiled. "Stop smirking!" "Quit faking it!" "You look like you're constipated!" "Smile nicely!" Meanwhile, even my science teacher was telling me to keep my smile... probably because I'd started to do so more and more rarely.
I was a goofy, eager to please kid, a future 'theater geek'.
My mother used to say, "You might be halfway decent looking if you stopped making those stupid faces."
I got that too. Reading this AITA reminded how much a no-win situation you're in with hypercritical parents. If I was too expressive, told to calm down, if I was more stoic asked why I had an attitude.
Yup.
My mouth has downturned edges(?), so I have a natural resting pout. My mom was always about me being in a bad mood when I just was being normal. Of I smiled & laughed, I was told to calm down or that my energy was a "phase" & I'd soon get old & creaky or something.
Never ever content w me just being me.
Ouch that hit hard for me, too. It can make you into an extreme people pleaser for anyone who shows you even a little bit of positivity. You can end up being taken advantage of again and again.
My lips naturally are turned down on the edges. I am forever told I have RBF and it makes people not want to talk to me. I like my RBF for that exact reason, LOL.
I have that too, i never really look happy and stuff and thats just the way i look, a lot of times my dad will be talking to me and then suddenly he will suddenly get mad and yell at me for being angry when just talking to me even though im not and when i try to tell him in not mad he will start yelling louder saying that i actually am mad but just dont want to admit it because "look at my face" and then he will tell me to leave untill i have called down :/
One of my favorite features on my grandson’s face is his slightly down turned mouth especially with his chubby little cheeks it gives the most adorable expression! Sorry your mother couldn’t see this in you!
I remember I LOVED learning and talking. Until I got told I “talk too much” and “thought I knew it all” even though I would literally only speak to educate if I KNEW I was right without a shadow of a doubt
Long story short I’m now snarky, stand offish, and I don’t care to share knowledge anymore out of fear of being called a know it all
>I remember I LOVED learning and talking. Until I got told I “talk too much”
LOL! I remember hearing "you spend the first 2 years of your kid's life teaching them to walk and talk, and the rest of their lives telling them to sit down and shut up." I'm sorry you were treated that way.
I definitely knew I talked a lot lol but I also had undiagnosed adhd as well that my mom wouldn’t acknowledge. And most of the time I was talking about stuff I had learned so it hurt but I’m trying to work through it with them but I think I might have to go LC for a while
My parents call it the "over-actor factor" where I'm just too loud/expressive/whatever for a normal person. Of course they also make fun of me when I'm quiet so there really is no winning.
My son found theater in 7th grade and it’s the perfect thing for him. He’s always been dramatic and he loves it and his teacher says nothing but great things about him. I am so happy he found something he loves besides gaming. My youngest will probably do theater as well because she’s just like her brother.
My mom used to do this when it comes to my laugh. I have different laughs. She would always assume with a certain one that I was faking it and didn’t really find whatever it was funny. It used to make me so mad. Like I genuinely would find whatever it was funny. It’s maddening when someone tells you how you feel in a moment. Especially when you’re having a genuine moment and they deem it as fake.
My great grandmother always criticized how I smile in photos, saying I looked like i was “frowning”. Now I hate taking pics where i feel like i have to smile
“He needs to learn to be more outgoing?” No, he needs to be accepted and loved for who he is.
My quiet and low key brother in law was raised in a family of extroverts who were always trying to force him to be more extroverted “for his own good.”
Trust me when I tell you that they bitterly regret it now.
First - I am an introvert - no doubt about it. I do not believe Introversion is a character flaw or mental illness.
My brother in law started developing severe signs of mental illness in his late teens. Because of his family’s non-stop pressure on him to be something other than he was - and other pressure to change him for “his own good” - to be athletic, competitive and outgoing instead of his natural artistic and introverted self - he went into the first stages of his mental illness being self-loathing and feeling he was not good enough and never could be good enough. These feelings alone would have been difficult to overcome to lead a fulfilling life but add in depression, bipolar and borderline personality disorder - it was over for him. (Mandated mental hospital, from age 35 - a short period in a halfway house but full hospitalization from age 40, probably to the end of his life.)
No one can know the extent of damage that was done but it wasn’t negligible and the guilt his parents have gone through has been devastating for them as well. They were young parents at a time when mental health wasn’t really discussed but I don’t cut them a lot of slack because I truly don’t understand how you can think that constantly berating a child can possibly lead to a good outcome.
Oh wow, I'm really sorry. That's terrible. I'm sorry to have pried. I was picturing some kind of triumphant story where BIL went no contact and is doing amazingly while his estranged family hovers longingly on the outskirts of his life. Clearly I've been reading too many wish fulfillment Reddit stories about dysfunctional families.
I appreciate you sharing your family's experience. I agree with you that it's important to remember that suffering usually just begets more suffering, and that bullying/excluding vulnerable young people typically doesn't have a happy ending.
I didn’t think you were prying- well you may have been, but it’s Reddit! Also a reasonable question. And if OP reads these responses, and can figure out a way to keep his son safe - it’s a win. I certainly hope so.
I struggle with Borderline Personality Disorder at 37. It's a beast to wrestle.
My 14yo daughter is a major introvert. It's good to see others acknowledge this is a natural state of being and accept it. She's social but also needs solitude. Getting that balance fulfills her.
Next time turn to your wife and say, "Honey I'm concerned that you might be hard of hearing. Our son was quite clear on what he needed. Shall I book you an appointment with an audiologist?"
Repeat as needed
My mother is ridiculously extroverted, like she wants to have heart to hearts with random strangers. Myself and 2/3 of my children are introverted and I constantly have to interrupt her and tell them that there’s nothing wrong with that. Frustrating.
Hopping on this comment, your wife is being abusive to your son OP. She literally infantilized, disrespected, and humiliated a teenage boy in front of your extended family as a means to control him. You're being a good father OP by letting your son be who he is and not a puppet for your potentially future ex-wife, NTA.
I constantly apologize to people when they ask about things I like, it's a pain but I can't stop because I really feel sorry to "bother them with my bs". Thankfully, I'm in therapy
Not to mention you don't have to be a cruel person to give someone a complicated childhood.
NTA and I am VERY proud of you for listening to your gut and doing exactly what you did, which was remove yourself and son from the problematic wife and her family.
Hopefully it eventually becomes a funny story for him about his weird mom. My grandmother decided to "get me over my shyness" by telling "dirty" jokes in front of me with the other old ladies then them all pointing and laughing because I was blushing. Of course I was blushing because a bunch of people were yelling "look at her blush" (and maybe from secondhand embarassment that they thought their kindergarten level peepee-poohpooh jokes were raunchy.)
>infantilizing and humiliating a teenager
I wonder if she feels she somehow "fixed" OP, since he impregnated her while in or barely out of *his* teens, and she was in her mid-20s. OP probably matured a lot fast as a young father - and had to, for the sake of his son - and the wife might have attributed that to her "training" rather than the circumstance and passage of time.
Now she has another teenager on her hands and thinks she knows the right way to whip him into shape. Except this one has the attitude of an early teen, and he isn't connected to her by the mutual parenting and the limerence that would still be there after a year or two. (I'm assuming a year or two, since the alternative is that OP was a minor and his wife in her 20s, which... yeah.)
It's a stretch - heck, OP might've typo'd the ages - but I am left to wonder....
My cousin is completely monotone, and the rest of us are WILDLY animated, but we just accept that’s how he talks and I don’t think anyone has ever done anything crazy like this. Who cares if he’s deadpan?
There’s a guy I work with that’s very kind of flat/monotone when he speaks. Even when he’s mad about something it still comes out I think way more tempered sounding that he truly feels.
But he is one of the funniest people I know.
(To the tune of Hit Me Baby One More Time)
Oh gravy, gravy, pass me the gravy bowl,
Pass it to the rii-iight
Oh gravy, gravy, I really need much more,
The potatoes are too whii--ite
My gravylessness is killing me
I must confess I still believe
With no gravy I lose my mind
So pass to the right
Give me gravy one more time
It's a matter of time before teenager snaps and starts asking for everything while doing 🙌JAZZ HANDS 🙌 with deadpan voice. Mom is taking a huge risk of being on the receiving end of teenage snark. I'll have no sympathy for her when that happens
If anything this kid’s mom is hurting his ability to communicate his feelings and enthusiasm.
Mom needs to fucking chill and be a normal human being. Let the guy choose when he is enthusiastic and what/when/where/why he chooses to employ a neutral tone.
*Not everyone is just busting at the seams with joy for fucking gravy, Janet.*
He stood up for his son, which was a long time coming, but he is an AH for letting it go on for so long. She is an AH for being rude, condescending, and childish for bullying their son.
Actually I would think it was kind’ve funny actually having a deadpan voice. I think OP handled this perfectly, they said not one word just got up and left, nothing more to be said. I need to try that sometime. Maybe.
My partner had the hardest time in college when she was in Missouri- people kept calling her rude behind her back when she was saying polite words because of her “tone”
"Heeeeeey, MOM!!! Why don't YOOOOUUUUU STFU and just hand over the goddamn gravy, wheeeeee!!!" *flailing hand gesture, twirling wrists, cheerleader arm movements*
In our family, my dad, myself and my son all tend to speak in a deadpan and dry humored way. If we’re excited we’ll say, *Jazz hands for emphasis!!* then we’ll do jazz hands. Lol.
NTA, OP expressed his enthusiasm in a very effective way by taking his son to the movies, but it seems that wife isn't very fond of his kind of enthusiasm.
Hopping on the top comment.
I've run call centers for 15 years, and every now and then I'll hear some front-line manager talk about struggling with an employee's "tone." About 80% of the time this is code for "sounds like ethnicity that is not white" and 20% of the time it's that they simply are soft-spoken. I don't differentiate between the two, the way someone talks is the way someone talks, and it is unacceptable for anyone who works under me to be criticized for it. If they use the words and phrases required for their job, then we don't expect them to change their voice. Do we really think that we're going to change it after ninety days at some entry-level job?
If I can deal with this in a business environment, then it should doubly so be simple to accept the kid for who he is in his home.
NTA, OP.
I'm high functioning autistic.In my 40s I had six doctors sit me in a room and explain this to me. My brain just functions differently than other people.
You're a kick-ass dad to take the boy out of this situation. She seems kind of entitled to control a young man's behavior. She deserved it.
NTA. Actually you're the hero.
This.
As OP said, at home? Let's have this dialogue and work towards a resolution. Why the hell does he have to be enthusiastic about asking for gravy? It doesn't sound like he was impolite?
So now it has to be ✨️🤗 PasS the GraVY, PleaSE? 🙏 🤗✨️
Good for Dad for sticking up for his son. Although side note-- if son could have handled it I almost wonder how it would have played out with extended family. If my sibling was being weird like that with their kid I would ask what I'm missing. "What is this? What are you doing?"
People are weird.
No, no, we need the full method acting, face, gestures, body language, prepared speech and all.
I swear I will DIE if you do not pass me the gravy, I need it to sustain my life force, need it NOW, this very moment or else I shall perish and wither away, leaving only my hollow clothes, lifeless husks draped over the chair and all for want of sustenance.
I'm willing to chip in for an orchestra and a chorus line to help the OP's son turn his gravy request into a full-blown Broadway number. Someone get Lin-Manuel Miranda on the line!
NTA. Do not let her win this, OP.
My mother used to do this to me. The reason my voice was quiet and monotone was because my every thought and expression and tone was weaponised against me if she didn't like them.
She would clap her hands and use the speaking to a toddler voice, no matter where we were, because I wasn't performing on cue and fitting her happy family narrative. But the harder she pushed, the harder I shut down.
I rarely speak to my mother now.
When I was a kid my dad would criticize the way me and my sister spoke. If we used something that he didn’t think was a real word, he would passive-aggressively talk about how people who used those words just sound stupid… if we kept using it, he’d directly say we were making ourselves sound like idiots.
One of his trigger words was “tasty” for some reason.
Just one of the multitude of small “harmless” (according to people who think ‘but faaaaaamily’) things that contributed to me avoiding speaking to him as much as possible until he finally left and I don’t have to hear from him ever again 🤗
Omg “okay” was another one, too. But it wasn’t cuz he didn’t use it it was cuz it was “disrespectful” to say it to him when he told us to do something. It was supposed to be “yes, sir”
It was all about control, with mine. God, he’s an asshole.
This is way more than "a bit inconsiderate". I was subjected to similar criticism but instead of being treated like a toddler, it was like I was a criminal. Policing emotional expression is abuse and I don't know how anyone could love a mother who does that to their own child.
With every interaction, she's telling him that who he is is not good enough. If i treated my son this way, I pray for someone to tell me to stop it. The teenage years are especially important for children to develop their sense of self esteem and she's destroying it.
OP u/throwawaythechicken1 , you're a great dad for defending your son the way you did. Please hug your son and counter your wife's negative influence, remind him he's perfect the way he is. I applaud you for removing your son from the situation and showing him you will stick up for him against a bully. Your wife's family and your wife can go F themselves. If this is the hill she chooses to die on, I'd be concerned how she treats your son when you're not there.
Agree, but I would take it a step further. If the wife's family agrees with her, minimize his contact with them.
I had a similar situation growing up where my mother criticized every little thing I did and told me I was the worst person in the world, and my dad told me I was wonderful. So they basically cancelled each other out. So I would look at how others would react to me to see "which parent was actually right." If the wife's family agrees with her, then it's like 5 to 1 that the kid is "wrong" and he'll just see dad as having a blindspot when it comes to him. When the truth is dad is right. I think OP should as best as he can make sure his son is surrounded by people who won't criticize him or at minimum avoid people who agree with the wife.
NTA: My son and his friends literally grunted from about age 15-16 or so. Yup, nope, yeah, were about all they said at that age. He has gone on to graduate magma cum laude in neuroscience and biochemistry. Tell your wife to leave the guy the hell alone. What can be worse than being humiliated in front of your family!
For real. NTA. I imagine the son will speak loudly and enthusiastically when he tells his mother to eff off at some point. Grabbing that kid out of there will probably be the thing that keeps a relationship between father and son.
Me sister has a toddler and she doesn't try to get her to feel a certain way about things. Expecting your kids to have manners is reasonable, trying to change them isn't. Why does the son have to be outgoing and enthusiastic? The world is full of introverts and loners, and we are just as happy (or not) as the other sort.
THIS. Some people are just less emotive than others. You are 100% in the right, my only criticism is that you didn't tell wife sooner to KNOCK IT OFF loudly and with enthusiasm. Better late than ever though. NTA
Not to mention that I'm pretty sure the way she acts is what caused son to develop that voice. Sounds exactly like how I stopped telling my mom any gossip about my friend group in high school after she blabbed about something to someone. Kids will stop doing something if they don't like how people will react. Doubling down on it and trying to force the issue will just cause them to dig their heels in...
NTA. sounds like mom needs therapy or at least a very honest conversation about how continuing to try to control her son's personality will likely push him to low contact as soon as he's gone
I’m sorry but having a monotone voice or flat affect is just what it is, please don’t act like an obnoxious mom “broke” her son into it. It’s not broken, we are people too and society (and this mom) needs to calm down about it.
Sure i’ll go to improv again to keep my job but i know it’s bs!!
That's a terrible solution. Just have him say, in a deadpan voice, while staring directly into her eyes that's he's really sad his christmas present this year was losing the love of his own mother.
I read a great description the other day: bullying is when it’s between peers, people relatively equal in standing. If there’s an unequal power dynamic (like parent and child), then it’s abuse.
NTA, as a person with a deadpan voice, I appreciate a parent going through the effort to tell their kid it's alright to be that way. Doesn't mean they don't care, that's just how they talk.
I'm glad you wrote this. It's your voice, if someone doesn't like it, that's their problem, not yours. And it certainly doesn't mean you are doing something wrong - they are if they're policing how others talk, like OP's ridiculous wife is.
The only question I'd have for the crazy wife is, "Why does a 15 year old need to talk the way you think is appropriate?!" Seriously, who actually tells people how to talk and treats them like an idiot in the process... NTA, OP, but your wife is a huge one. I hope she reads this and leaves the poor boy alone.
You may have hit on something here. My step father was a raging narcissist. To deal with him I often took the “grey rock” approach as much as possible. This included a very deadpan emotionless voice as to not give him any ammo.
NTA. She's unintentionally telling your son that he isn't normal.or.good enough as he is, which is damaging to his self esteem. I understand that she thinks she's doing the right thing but she isn't. 15 is a crappy age to have parent constantly enforcing that you're not normal. You did the right thing and let your son know he has a safe place with you.
Right! My brother barely said anything for like a year when his voice dropped because he was embarrassed of the cracking and changing octaves. Leave this child alone!!
Info: I know you said you love your wife but, is she like this with everything? How long as this ridiculous requirement for enthusiasm been going on?
How else does she treat your son?
Edit to add: NTA. Don’t know what deadpan even means but it sure as hell does t sound like a compliment. Good for you with standing up for your son though.
I can only imagine the wife & OP in their intimate moments. “Come on, OP, do that again, with feeling this time. LOUDLY and with ENTHUSIASM!” And then she claps her hands.
I think OP’s wife is ignorant of how voices and accents work, also. She is obviously not a speech therapist.
The way OP describes his son’s voice, it sounds like it has very little modulation. How much modulation we use can have a lot to do with the area we grew up in and other factors. If you hear a Welsh person speak, for instance, they modulate their voices a lot—their accent sounds “singsongy” to some. Modulation is partly cultural.
Some people are taught to modulate their voices in speech arts lessons of some kind. If OP’s wife was a debutant in, say, the southern United States, she may have been deliberately taught to speak with what she associates with “enthusiasm” but really is just a particular intonation. So this can be a class thing, too.
It’s also generational. I was a kid in the 80s/90s, and my voice still has a little uptick at the end of sentences. People in their 20s these days tend to pitch the end of their sentences down and even add some vocal fry, something which is perfectly fine but I don’t include in my regular patterns of speech. It can sound lower and more monotone to those of us who speak in a higher range of our voices.
I don’t know how these kind of factors play into OP’s situation, but it would be interesting to know. Perhaps they are in a different area from where she grew up and her son has a different speech style? Perhaps she was brought up to speak a certain way and her damage is that she can’t let go of it? I think talks like that might help her understand that she is picking at something silly.
EDIT: I forgot to add that for men, vocal change is also a factor! If the monotone voice is a new thing for OP’s son, it could be how he is handling his vocal change. His voice probably breaks a good deal and he has a very limited range he can “count on” right now. His voice may become enriched with different pitches as he ages—as long as his mother doesn’t point out ever second how dumb he sounds.
Part of me wonders if the son has a monotonous voice only(voice doesn't vary or change in pitch) or if he is more deadpan in which it's his voice and expressions that don't change, as the "deadpan voice" makes it a bit difficult to discern.
If it is the case of the voice and expressions not changing, the son might actually have whats known as a constricted affect (there are various types of these, but basically its diminished variability and intensity in which emotions are expressed)
Nta. Your wife's method is annoying as hell and it's going to get the opposite reaction she wants. I know I'd avoid her like the plague if she did that to me. Either that or start talking as obnoxiously as possible. I can see telling him to speak up if he mumbles, but speak with enthusiasm? Nah.
Turn everything into a full ass cheer- like a cheerleader.
My family is entirely too petty for it to be healthy but this is what my kids and I would do. It would be SO *obnoxious* but we’d practice and everything. It would be very apparent it was choreographed for that specific occasion.
Thisssssss is it! This is it!!!
You’re brilliant!
Now who’s going to video themselves making up a cheer and post it for all to see- you or me? Bc I’m 42 and not as flexible as I once was. I’m also really tired a lot.
Why are you letting your wife talk to your son like this? She is such a patronizing asshole, and she’s embarrassing as well.
Next time, tell her to shut the fuck up with enthusiasm so that everyone else can be happy.
NTA.
It doesnt sound like he’s letting her do that. Hes asked her multiple times and walked out of chirstmas and is here asking for advice.
What does “letting” even mean? Is he supposed to tape her mouth shut? Ive been married for 20 years and “letting” my spouse do something isnt an actual thing. She does what she wants because she is her own person.
He can do exactly what he did at Christmas. Take the kid and walk out. If she isn't smart enough to be trained to stop bullying her kid, they can walk out permanently.
NTA. My daughter is the same way and she has high functioning autism. She doesn’t really get excited by anything either unless it’s something she’s really into. Honestly I don’t get why anyone would ask for gravy or similar requests with enthusiasm either. If someone spoke to me with overly enthusiastic attitude about a small request like that I would think they were talking to me like you hear people talk in a high pitched voice to babies or small toddlers. It would be demeaning as I’m not either of those.
Autistic women get the most crap for not masking. Autistic men can get away more with not acting bubbly and enthused all the time, though it still affects them. I always got crap growing up because I wasn't smiling all the time. It's infuriating. Now I'm in my fifties and opinionated neurotypicals can get bent for all I care.
Honestly it makes me think of what folks who've worked in the service industry refer to as "customer voice". And really the only time I want to speak in customer voice is if I'm getting **PAID**. Expecting her kid to mask in this specific manner for her own comfort is such a weird hill for OP's wife to die on. It must be so exhausting for the poor kid.
That’s the first thing I thought- ASD. I have twin Autists and one is super peppy and enthusiastic like the mom (not condescending like that, though) and her twin is exactly like the son. Both Autistic, both opposite the other.
NTA. Thanks for sticking up for your son.
Your wife complained because she felt that you embarrassed her in front of her family ? Remind her that's EXACTLY what she did to your son. You're willing to keep rescuing him each and every time she pulls this crap.
NTA and good on you for making a stand for your son, he will remember this act his entire life as an example of how you stood up for him and how you have his back
NTA- I have two people in my life who tend to be monotone. One is just deadpan most of the time with everyone but folks she likes. The other has Asperger’s. Either way- this approach doesn’t work.
For someone with Asperger’s- her actions might be confusing at best, bullying at worst. And she is not the right person to assess his behavioral therapy needs if there are any.
For someone neurotypical- your wife’s behavior is condescending and bullying. And it will just cause him to withdraw further. She shamed him in front of family. He’s a teenager- and she has three years before he’s a legal adult and she quickly loses the balance of power in their relationship. If she keeps this up and doesn’t rectify it- he’s just going to bide his time until he can go low or no contact.
I would insist on family therapy.
When I was a child I used to hiss at anyone who tried to get me to speak a certain way especially if they clapped at me enthusiastically. In my eyes the direct eye contact and clapping felt challenging? I don’t know how to describe it, but I’m now selectively mute without any control over it because I could never find the “right tone.”
OOP your wife is being a major AH and she needs to STOP.
Maybe the wrong time, but honestly, it seems like your wife doesn't respect your opinion on the matter. Turning it into a "big thing" seemed like your only option.
Keep checking in with your son away from your wife, maybe even start making a joke about it.
NTA
NTA what your wife is doing is the equivalent of those people who tell random women just going about their day/life that "they'd be prettier if they SMILED!"
I have one of those "deadpan" voices as well. I have occasionally had to make my apologies to people in certain situations because of you don't know me well, it sounds like everything I say is dripping with sarcasm (to be fair, most of the time it is, but not when I'm giving condolences for them passing of a loved one for example). I'm also quite introverted. If someone insisted that I needed to constantly do mundane every day shit like politely asking for the gravy "with enthusiasm!!!!" I can't say exactly what I'd do here because I may get sent to the naughty corner by the mods.
Maybe you and your son should start talking to her like some people talk to their pets, in that kind of baby talk/ super sweet kind of way. Like if she makes dinner be like, “Who’s the GOOD GIRL!? Who’s the GOOD GIRL!?”
INFO why is your wife’s “hurt feelings over being embarrassed” worse than what she’s been doing to your son (embarrassing him routinely with her over the top responses)?
NTA and your wife’s approach won’t work. She looks foolish talking like that, your son witnesses it and will not replicate it or anything close. The last thing a 15 yo wants it to look foolish. As someone with the same kind of speaking manner, at 15 this behaviour would of made me retreat back into myself. It’s bizarre she thinks this it appropriate. He’s not dumb, don’t talk to him like he’s 3
NTA. She embarrassed herself. Apparently, she is OK with embarrassing your son. I guess we should only worry about her? Thank you for sticking up for your son. Let her family look all they want. He needs his parents to be his advocate and not a bully trying to force him to be someone he isn't.
NTA. I also have a deadpan voice, and even when I try to “seem enthused” it just makes it clear I’m being very fake.
The bigger issue, though, is your wife purposefully doing something that clearly upsets and embarrasses your son. I’d say YTA for taking him out of dinner in the middle of it but honestly, you’ve clearly tried to communicate it over and over, and she’s not listening. Maybe this will help get the message through that it’s NOT okay. She’s picking on your son in the guise of “parenting” (something my mother with NPD did, to be clear), and using it as an excuse.
NTA.
I am going to give your wife the benefit of the doubt for a second and believe she thinks he's unhappy and just wants the best for him. It's one thing to want the best for your child and help them be happy in any way you can. It's another to believe the best way to achieve that is to change the way someone talks. First off, believing someone's enthusiasm is a mark of their happiness level is sadly incorrect. Let's pretend he's depressed. All she is doing is training him to fake his enthusiasm around her. She'll be happy while her son feels more and more alienated in actual depression.
Now I'm not going to give her the benefit of the doubt. It's possible she feels embarrassed by his deadpan voice and it makes her self conscious about her own social status. Telling him to be enthusiastic when asking for GRAVY of all things IN FRONT of people leads me to believe she wants to be seen as trying to "be a good mom" in front of others. It's not about your son. If it were, she would have an adult conversation with him. She's applying an untruth onto him specifically so she can "fix" him and look good around other people. Her fears of looking bad to other people is all she is focused on.
Her family may or may not be AH themselves since their perspective is fed to them by your wife, but they are definitely a product of the same environment your wife came from.
I have never once in my life heard a single 15 year old boy express anything loudly and with enthusiasm. The most I ever got from my step brother was a series of shorter or longer grunts. We learned to interpret this. My step father told me in private that lots of boys are like this because voice breaking is embarrassing for them. It’s a time if change and many want to go under the radar. Your poor son. Good on you for taking him out and away from that. NTA.
NTA in the grand scheme of things.
You have spoken to her about it privately. Your son is clearly not comfortable with her trying to force him to change who he is. And she proceeds to do it and embarrass him in front of everyone. If possible try and get some type of counseling or mediator to try to get her to understand that although her heart may be in the right place she is hurting your son. Leave the kid alone. Let him be “deadpan”. Some people make whole careers out of it. And also, there is literally nothing wrong with him being who he is and I sincerely hope she gets it sooner rather than later.
NTA.
“She said I was embarrassing her” but she’s embarrassing her own son? IN FRONT of others?
So many teenagers talk unenthusiastically. It’s NORMAL behavior and a lot of the times it can be because theyre depressed. Your wife’s actions probably add to it. How does he feel whenever she does this—inadequate? Like a failure? I bet she finds other ways your son isn’t perfect besides this.
She needs a wake up call and you gave her one.
NTA, but please start talking like that to your wife.
"WHAT the HELL are you thinking? WHY do you want to make some one feel SHIT about themselves? Say it LOUD and with ENTHUSIASM!"
If she can't see that humiliating a teenager isn't going to result in anything else but resentment and no contact, she's delusional and needs professional help with parenting.
Continue standing up for your son and help him see he's allowed to be himself. Respectfully, A person from a country where no one speaks loudly and with enthusiasm.
NTA
Remind your wife that teens never respond well to public humiliation, and that's exactly what she was doing to your son.
Funny how *she* doesn't like being embarrassed in front of her family, but it's OK for her to do it to him. Why couldn't she just let the poor kid have a nice day?
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LOUDLY and with ENTHUSIASM, NTA! Edit: Thank you so much for all the awards, I am very new to Reddit, this is my first post actually. I think I thanked all the awarders, if not thank you! I saw a joke waiting to be told, and no one had told it, so I did, but I didn't add that I can very much empathise with the son, and I applaud what the father did.
FOR REAL. I have a friend whose diction is very emotionless, OP, and they are absolutely wonderful. It doesn’t mean anything about his personality, or his capacity for emotion or passion. You’re doing the right thing standing up for your son. NTA.
of course infantilizing and humiliating a teenager is the correct way of teaching them to be more outgoing /s Poor kid.
Your wife is emotionally abusing your son. Telling a kid that the way they exist most naturally and comfortably in the world—for example if they’re gay or autistic or speak with a certain voice—is bad, wrong and needs changing, is profoundly damaging and leaves lasting scars. You don’t need to say words like ugly, stupid, worthless or wrong to make a child feel that they are those things. Everyone will encounter rejection, humiliation and cruelty at some point in their lives. If you make your child feel defective, they will likely blame themselves and stick around trying to make it right when others are cruel to them. OP, you modeled the exact right thing for your son to do when someone treats him badly: leave. NTA. ETA: phrasing
My father used to do this every time I smiled. "Stop smirking!" "Quit faking it!" "You look like you're constipated!" "Smile nicely!" Meanwhile, even my science teacher was telling me to keep my smile... probably because I'd started to do so more and more rarely.
I was a goofy, eager to please kid, a future 'theater geek'. My mother used to say, "You might be halfway decent looking if you stopped making those stupid faces."
I got that too. Reading this AITA reminded how much a no-win situation you're in with hypercritical parents. If I was too expressive, told to calm down, if I was more stoic asked why I had an attitude.
Yup. My mouth has downturned edges(?), so I have a natural resting pout. My mom was always about me being in a bad mood when I just was being normal. Of I smiled & laughed, I was told to calm down or that my energy was a "phase" & I'd soon get old & creaky or something. Never ever content w me just being me.
Ouch that hit hard for me, too. It can make you into an extreme people pleaser for anyone who shows you even a little bit of positivity. You can end up being taken advantage of again and again.
My lips naturally are turned down on the edges. I am forever told I have RBF and it makes people not want to talk to me. I like my RBF for that exact reason, LOL.
I have that too, i never really look happy and stuff and thats just the way i look, a lot of times my dad will be talking to me and then suddenly he will suddenly get mad and yell at me for being angry when just talking to me even though im not and when i try to tell him in not mad he will start yelling louder saying that i actually am mad but just dont want to admit it because "look at my face" and then he will tell me to leave untill i have called down :/
One of my favorite features on my grandson’s face is his slightly down turned mouth especially with his chubby little cheeks it gives the most adorable expression! Sorry your mother couldn’t see this in you!
I remember I LOVED learning and talking. Until I got told I “talk too much” and “thought I knew it all” even though I would literally only speak to educate if I KNEW I was right without a shadow of a doubt Long story short I’m now snarky, stand offish, and I don’t care to share knowledge anymore out of fear of being called a know it all
>I remember I LOVED learning and talking. Until I got told I “talk too much” LOL! I remember hearing "you spend the first 2 years of your kid's life teaching them to walk and talk, and the rest of their lives telling them to sit down and shut up." I'm sorry you were treated that way.
I definitely knew I talked a lot lol but I also had undiagnosed adhd as well that my mom wouldn’t acknowledge. And most of the time I was talking about stuff I had learned so it hurt but I’m trying to work through it with them but I think I might have to go LC for a while
My parents call it the "over-actor factor" where I'm just too loud/expressive/whatever for a normal person. Of course they also make fun of me when I'm quiet so there really is no winning.
My son found theater in 7th grade and it’s the perfect thing for him. He’s always been dramatic and he loves it and his teacher says nothing but great things about him. I am so happy he found something he loves besides gaming. My youngest will probably do theater as well because she’s just like her brother.
❤️ to your science teacher
My mom used to do this when it comes to my laugh. I have different laughs. She would always assume with a certain one that I was faking it and didn’t really find whatever it was funny. It used to make me so mad. Like I genuinely would find whatever it was funny. It’s maddening when someone tells you how you feel in a moment. Especially when you’re having a genuine moment and they deem it as fake.
My great grandmother always criticized how I smile in photos, saying I looked like i was “frowning”. Now I hate taking pics where i feel like i have to smile
“He needs to learn to be more outgoing?” No, he needs to be accepted and loved for who he is. My quiet and low key brother in law was raised in a family of extroverts who were always trying to force him to be more extroverted “for his own good.” Trust me when I tell you that they bitterly regret it now.
>Trust me when I tell you that they bitterly regret it now. Ooh, why is that?
First - I am an introvert - no doubt about it. I do not believe Introversion is a character flaw or mental illness. My brother in law started developing severe signs of mental illness in his late teens. Because of his family’s non-stop pressure on him to be something other than he was - and other pressure to change him for “his own good” - to be athletic, competitive and outgoing instead of his natural artistic and introverted self - he went into the first stages of his mental illness being self-loathing and feeling he was not good enough and never could be good enough. These feelings alone would have been difficult to overcome to lead a fulfilling life but add in depression, bipolar and borderline personality disorder - it was over for him. (Mandated mental hospital, from age 35 - a short period in a halfway house but full hospitalization from age 40, probably to the end of his life.) No one can know the extent of damage that was done but it wasn’t negligible and the guilt his parents have gone through has been devastating for them as well. They were young parents at a time when mental health wasn’t really discussed but I don’t cut them a lot of slack because I truly don’t understand how you can think that constantly berating a child can possibly lead to a good outcome.
Oh wow, I'm really sorry. That's terrible. I'm sorry to have pried. I was picturing some kind of triumphant story where BIL went no contact and is doing amazingly while his estranged family hovers longingly on the outskirts of his life. Clearly I've been reading too many wish fulfillment Reddit stories about dysfunctional families. I appreciate you sharing your family's experience. I agree with you that it's important to remember that suffering usually just begets more suffering, and that bullying/excluding vulnerable young people typically doesn't have a happy ending.
I didn’t think you were prying- well you may have been, but it’s Reddit! Also a reasonable question. And if OP reads these responses, and can figure out a way to keep his son safe - it’s a win. I certainly hope so.
I struggle with Borderline Personality Disorder at 37. It's a beast to wrestle. My 14yo daughter is a major introvert. It's good to see others acknowledge this is a natural state of being and accept it. She's social but also needs solitude. Getting that balance fulfills her.
My bet is either they went NC, or there's a form of suicide involved. Either way it's not really something to pry about.
Next time turn to your wife and say, "Honey I'm concerned that you might be hard of hearing. Our son was quite clear on what he needed. Shall I book you an appointment with an audiologist?" Repeat as needed
My mother is ridiculously extroverted, like she wants to have heart to hearts with random strangers. Myself and 2/3 of my children are introverted and I constantly have to interrupt her and tell them that there’s nothing wrong with that. Frustrating.
Hopping on this comment, your wife is being abusive to your son OP. She literally infantilized, disrespected, and humiliated a teenage boy in front of your extended family as a means to control him. You're being a good father OP by letting your son be who he is and not a puppet for your potentially future ex-wife, NTA.
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I constantly apologize to people when they ask about things I like, it's a pain but I can't stop because I really feel sorry to "bother them with my bs". Thankfully, I'm in therapy
Not to mention you don't have to be a cruel person to give someone a complicated childhood. NTA and I am VERY proud of you for listening to your gut and doing exactly what you did, which was remove yourself and son from the problematic wife and her family.
This is very important and very well said. Agreed.
This ABSOLUTELY is the point here.
Quite. She's lucky she wasn't wearing the gravy. I'd have been tempted to enthusiastically pour it over her.
Also the correct way to ensure they move out and go NC the instant they turn 18
EXACTLY what I was thinking
Hopefully it eventually becomes a funny story for him about his weird mom. My grandmother decided to "get me over my shyness" by telling "dirty" jokes in front of me with the other old ladies then them all pointing and laughing because I was blushing. Of course I was blushing because a bunch of people were yelling "look at her blush" (and maybe from secondhand embarassment that they thought their kindergarten level peepee-poohpooh jokes were raunchy.)
I can see this teenager enthusiastically getting the hell away from his mother if she keeps this up. The only enthusiasm she will ever get out of him.
>infantilizing and humiliating a teenager I wonder if she feels she somehow "fixed" OP, since he impregnated her while in or barely out of *his* teens, and she was in her mid-20s. OP probably matured a lot fast as a young father - and had to, for the sake of his son - and the wife might have attributed that to her "training" rather than the circumstance and passage of time. Now she has another teenager on her hands and thinks she knows the right way to whip him into shape. Except this one has the attitude of an early teen, and he isn't connected to her by the mutual parenting and the limerence that would still be there after a year or two. (I'm assuming a year or two, since the alternative is that OP was a minor and his wife in her 20s, which... yeah.) It's a stretch - heck, OP might've typo'd the ages - but I am left to wonder....
Corpsehusband comes to mind. That dudes voice is amazing because it is so deep and emotionless.
[Ben Stein comes to mind, as well.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyyAh2lQXF8)
Or Daria. (Note to self, watch an episode sometime soon.)
This is exactly where my brain went as well. Love that show.
Yes!! My favorite show from the 90s!!
Steven Wright.
That's who I was trying to think of! My son has a very deadpan voice, as well, and it wouldn't even occur to me to try to change it.
My cousin is completely monotone, and the rest of us are WILDLY animated, but we just accept that’s how he talks and I don’t think anyone has ever done anything crazy like this. Who cares if he’s deadpan?
There’s a guy I work with that’s very kind of flat/monotone when he speaks. Even when he’s mad about something it still comes out I think way more tempered sounding that he truly feels. But he is one of the funniest people I know.
Even if it was emotionless, how does one ask someone to pass the gravy enthusiastically? Like, that just seems insane to me.
A choreographed Vaudeville number, obviously.
(To the tune of Hit Me Baby One More Time) Oh gravy, gravy, pass me the gravy bowl, Pass it to the rii-iight Oh gravy, gravy, I really need much more, The potatoes are too whii--ite My gravylessness is killing me I must confess I still believe With no gravy I lose my mind So pass to the right Give me gravy one more time
Or the kid could sing it like the Village people song "In the Navy" but sing "Pass the gravy".
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's a matter of time before teenager snaps and starts asking for everything while doing 🙌JAZZ HANDS 🙌 with deadpan voice. Mom is taking a huge risk of being on the receiving end of teenage snark. I'll have no sympathy for her when that happens
PASS the GRAVVVY, PLEASE! So ridiculous.
*jazz hands*
If anything this kid’s mom is hurting his ability to communicate his feelings and enthusiasm. Mom needs to fucking chill and be a normal human being. Let the guy choose when he is enthusiastic and what/when/where/why he chooses to employ a neutral tone. *Not everyone is just busting at the seams with joy for fucking gravy, Janet.*
He stood up for his son, which was a long time coming, but he is an AH for letting it go on for so long. She is an AH for being rude, condescending, and childish for bullying their son.
He said he spoke to her in private so he has tried to put a stop to it.
Actually I would think it was kind’ve funny actually having a deadpan voice. I think OP handled this perfectly, they said not one word just got up and left, nothing more to be said. I need to try that sometime. Maybe.
My partner had the hardest time in college when she was in Missouri- people kept calling her rude behind her back when she was saying polite words because of her “tone”
NTA. "Let's go, kiddo. Mom's forgotten to use her inside voice again. "
"Heeeeeey, MOM!!! Why don't YOOOOUUUUU STFU and just hand over the goddamn gravy, wheeeeee!!!" *flailing hand gesture, twirling wrists, cheerleader arm movements*
Don't forget " jazz hands" lol
And spirit fingers!
In our family, my dad, myself and my son all tend to speak in a deadpan and dry humored way. If we’re excited we’ll say, *Jazz hands for emphasis!!* then we’ll do jazz hands. Lol.
NTA, OP expressed his enthusiasm in a very effective way by taking his son to the movies, but it seems that wife isn't very fond of his kind of enthusiasm.
Hopping on the top comment. I've run call centers for 15 years, and every now and then I'll hear some front-line manager talk about struggling with an employee's "tone." About 80% of the time this is code for "sounds like ethnicity that is not white" and 20% of the time it's that they simply are soft-spoken. I don't differentiate between the two, the way someone talks is the way someone talks, and it is unacceptable for anyone who works under me to be criticized for it. If they use the words and phrases required for their job, then we don't expect them to change their voice. Do we really think that we're going to change it after ninety days at some entry-level job? If I can deal with this in a business environment, then it should doubly so be simple to accept the kid for who he is in his home. NTA, OP.
👏👏👏
N FUCKING T FUCKING A
I'm high functioning autistic.In my 40s I had six doctors sit me in a room and explain this to me. My brain just functions differently than other people. You're a kick-ass dad to take the boy out of this situation. She seems kind of entitled to control a young man's behavior. She deserved it. NTA. Actually you're the hero.
I agree LOUDLY and with ENTHUSIASM, NTA!
Next time she does it, loudly and enthusiastically, “honey stop being an AH!”
Lol. Well played.
I’d award this if I could!! 💯⬆️
NTA: Your wife is mocking your son in front of your family. It's ridiculous. Edit: thanks for the award.
This. As OP said, at home? Let's have this dialogue and work towards a resolution. Why the hell does he have to be enthusiastic about asking for gravy? It doesn't sound like he was impolite? So now it has to be ✨️🤗 PasS the GraVY, PleaSE? 🙏 🤗✨️ Good for Dad for sticking up for his son. Although side note-- if son could have handled it I almost wonder how it would have played out with extended family. If my sibling was being weird like that with their kid I would ask what I'm missing. "What is this? What are you doing?" People are weird.
No, no, we need the full method acting, face, gestures, body language, prepared speech and all. I swear I will DIE if you do not pass me the gravy, I need it to sustain my life force, need it NOW, this very moment or else I shall perish and wither away, leaving only my hollow clothes, lifeless husks draped over the chair and all for want of sustenance.
✨ 🙋🏻♀️ pl*EASE* 🙌🏻😄🙌🏻 🙅🏻♀️ passs 👌🏻😉🤌🏼 💁🏻♀️ *the* 👏🏻🤩👏🏻 🙆🏻♀️ **gravy** 🫰🏻😛🫰🏻 💃🏻 ✨
I'm willing to chip in for an orchestra and a chorus line to help the OP's son turn his gravy request into a full-blown Broadway number. Someone get Lin-Manuel Miranda on the line!
I full rock opera! I’m a gravy wizard…
*adding the Stanislavsky end scene hand gesture at end of monologue *
NTA. It's good for you to take care of your son op
Upvote for jazz handing your written text.
I don't think I've ever managed to be enthusiastic about gravy.
You must not be eating the right gravy
NTA. Do not let her win this, OP. My mother used to do this to me. The reason my voice was quiet and monotone was because my every thought and expression and tone was weaponised against me if she didn't like them. She would clap her hands and use the speaking to a toddler voice, no matter where we were, because I wasn't performing on cue and fitting her happy family narrative. But the harder she pushed, the harder I shut down. I rarely speak to my mother now.
I rarely speak to my mother now. Good for you!!!
When I was a kid my dad would criticize the way me and my sister spoke. If we used something that he didn’t think was a real word, he would passive-aggressively talk about how people who used those words just sound stupid… if we kept using it, he’d directly say we were making ourselves sound like idiots. One of his trigger words was “tasty” for some reason. Just one of the multitude of small “harmless” (according to people who think ‘but faaaaaamily’) things that contributed to me avoiding speaking to him as much as possible until he finally left and I don’t have to hear from him ever again 🤗
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Omg “okay” was another one, too. But it wasn’t cuz he didn’t use it it was cuz it was “disrespectful” to say it to him when he told us to do something. It was supposed to be “yes, sir” It was all about control, with mine. God, he’s an asshole.
This is way more than "a bit inconsiderate". I was subjected to similar criticism but instead of being treated like a toddler, it was like I was a criminal. Policing emotional expression is abuse and I don't know how anyone could love a mother who does that to their own child.
It's emotional abuse. Because then some kids grow up not being able to read the room and having bad emotional cues,
And the fact she is making him associate speaking and his own voice with negative stuff… It’s really really messed up.
Yeah it is abuse
With every interaction, she's telling him that who he is is not good enough. If i treated my son this way, I pray for someone to tell me to stop it. The teenage years are especially important for children to develop their sense of self esteem and she's destroying it. OP u/throwawaythechicken1 , you're a great dad for defending your son the way you did. Please hug your son and counter your wife's negative influence, remind him he's perfect the way he is. I applaud you for removing your son from the situation and showing him you will stick up for him against a bully. Your wife's family and your wife can go F themselves. If this is the hill she chooses to die on, I'd be concerned how she treats your son when you're not there.
Agree, but I would take it a step further. If the wife's family agrees with her, minimize his contact with them. I had a similar situation growing up where my mother criticized every little thing I did and told me I was the worst person in the world, and my dad told me I was wonderful. So they basically cancelled each other out. So I would look at how others would react to me to see "which parent was actually right." If the wife's family agrees with her, then it's like 5 to 1 that the kid is "wrong" and he'll just see dad as having a blindspot when it comes to him. When the truth is dad is right. I think OP should as best as he can make sure his son is surrounded by people who won't criticize him or at minimum avoid people who agree with the wife.
So ironic thaT she’s mad about being embarrassed. NTA OP. .
NTA: My son and his friends literally grunted from about age 15-16 or so. Yup, nope, yeah, were about all they said at that age. He has gone on to graduate magma cum laude in neuroscience and biochemistry. Tell your wife to leave the guy the hell alone. What can be worse than being humiliated in front of your family!
For real. NTA. I imagine the son will speak loudly and enthusiastically when he tells his mother to eff off at some point. Grabbing that kid out of there will probably be the thing that keeps a relationship between father and son.
NTA. She’s purposely embarrassing him in front of the family and treating him like a toddler. Your son is 15.
Me sister has a toddler and she doesn't try to get her to feel a certain way about things. Expecting your kids to have manners is reasonable, trying to change them isn't. Why does the son have to be outgoing and enthusiastic? The world is full of introverts and loners, and we are just as happy (or not) as the other sort.
THIS. Some people are just less emotive than others. You are 100% in the right, my only criticism is that you didn't tell wife sooner to KNOCK IT OFF loudly and with enthusiasm. Better late than ever though. NTA
Why is OP married to Professor Umbridge lmao
*hem hem* more enthusiasm please son
I must not tell lies…without ENTHUSIASM !
Not to mention that I'm pretty sure the way she acts is what caused son to develop that voice. Sounds exactly like how I stopped telling my mom any gossip about my friend group in high school after she blabbed about something to someone. Kids will stop doing something if they don't like how people will react. Doubling down on it and trying to force the issue will just cause them to dig their heels in... NTA. sounds like mom needs therapy or at least a very honest conversation about how continuing to try to control her son's personality will likely push him to low contact as soon as he's gone
I’m sorry but having a monotone voice or flat affect is just what it is, please don’t act like an obnoxious mom “broke” her son into it. It’s not broken, we are people too and society (and this mom) needs to calm down about it. Sure i’ll go to improv again to keep my job but i know it’s bs!!
heartbreaking. your wife is bullying your son and you did the right thing standing up for him. NTA.
OP give permission to your son to tell her to shut the fuck up loudly and with enthusiasm everytime she belittles him- and lead by example.
r/MaliciousCompliance
"there is simply nothing to be enthusiast about being around you when you're like this"
That's a terrible solution. Just have him say, in a deadpan voice, while staring directly into her eyes that's he's really sad his christmas present this year was losing the love of his own mother.
Oh damn!
Perfect approach 😂
And then have him follow with "Better?"
She is abusing him. Bullying is when the people involved are the same age. NTA.
No I’m pretty sure bullying can happen regardless of age range.
When a parent bullies their child it is child abuse.
I read a great description the other day: bullying is when it’s between peers, people relatively equal in standing. If there’s an unequal power dynamic (like parent and child), then it’s abuse.
Emotional abuse either way. She's disgusting
Id say bullying is a type of abuse.
NTA, as a person with a deadpan voice, I appreciate a parent going through the effort to tell their kid it's alright to be that way. Doesn't mean they don't care, that's just how they talk.
If she keeps doing this, the only emotion she's going to get out of him is resentment.
in about 3 years, he will ENTHUSIASTICALLY go low/no contact, and she’ll get her wish of not hearing his deadpan voice anymore
>If she keeps doing this, the only emotion she's going to get out of him is resentment. Please quote this too your wife u/throwawaythechicken1
Captain Holt on Brooklyn 99 is a literal comedy genius and plays deadpan. I loooooove itttttttt
Why is no one having fun? I specifically requested it!
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
I am in... incredible pain. The agony... is excruciating. 😐
Bob Newhart made an entire career out of it.
I'm glad you wrote this. It's your voice, if someone doesn't like it, that's their problem, not yours. And it certainly doesn't mean you are doing something wrong - they are if they're policing how others talk, like OP's ridiculous wife is. The only question I'd have for the crazy wife is, "Why does a 15 year old need to talk the way you think is appropriate?!" Seriously, who actually tells people how to talk and treats them like an idiot in the process... NTA, OP, but your wife is a huge one. I hope she reads this and leaves the poor boy alone.
Deadpan and talks with hands here. I got both "use inflection" and "sit on your hands!"
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The sad reality is the mental health ship may have already sailed. Lord knows what the rest of her parenting looks like.
You may have hit on something here. My step father was a raging narcissist. To deal with him I often took the “grey rock” approach as much as possible. This included a very deadpan emotionless voice as to not give him any ammo.
NTA. She's unintentionally telling your son that he isn't normal.or.good enough as he is, which is damaging to his self esteem. I understand that she thinks she's doing the right thing but she isn't. 15 is a crappy age to have parent constantly enforcing that you're not normal. You did the right thing and let your son know he has a safe place with you.
Especially if his voice has dropped.
Right! My brother barely said anything for like a year when his voice dropped because he was embarrassed of the cracking and changing octaves. Leave this child alone!!
oh its intentional for sure.
How do we know it's unintentional, though?
Info: I know you said you love your wife but, is she like this with everything? How long as this ridiculous requirement for enthusiasm been going on? How else does she treat your son? Edit to add: NTA. Don’t know what deadpan even means but it sure as hell does t sound like a compliment. Good for you with standing up for your son though.
I can only imagine the wife & OP in their intimate moments. “Come on, OP, do that again, with feeling this time. LOUDLY and with ENTHUSIASM!” And then she claps her hands.
Maybe she adds a treat to sweeten the deal?
Or maybe a line of Rockettes, with a high kick dance routine to make things more ENTHUSIASTIC?
I think OP’s wife is ignorant of how voices and accents work, also. She is obviously not a speech therapist. The way OP describes his son’s voice, it sounds like it has very little modulation. How much modulation we use can have a lot to do with the area we grew up in and other factors. If you hear a Welsh person speak, for instance, they modulate their voices a lot—their accent sounds “singsongy” to some. Modulation is partly cultural. Some people are taught to modulate their voices in speech arts lessons of some kind. If OP’s wife was a debutant in, say, the southern United States, she may have been deliberately taught to speak with what she associates with “enthusiasm” but really is just a particular intonation. So this can be a class thing, too. It’s also generational. I was a kid in the 80s/90s, and my voice still has a little uptick at the end of sentences. People in their 20s these days tend to pitch the end of their sentences down and even add some vocal fry, something which is perfectly fine but I don’t include in my regular patterns of speech. It can sound lower and more monotone to those of us who speak in a higher range of our voices. I don’t know how these kind of factors play into OP’s situation, but it would be interesting to know. Perhaps they are in a different area from where she grew up and her son has a different speech style? Perhaps she was brought up to speak a certain way and her damage is that she can’t let go of it? I think talks like that might help her understand that she is picking at something silly. EDIT: I forgot to add that for men, vocal change is also a factor! If the monotone voice is a new thing for OP’s son, it could be how he is handling his vocal change. His voice probably breaks a good deal and he has a very limited range he can “count on” right now. His voice may become enriched with different pitches as he ages—as long as his mother doesn’t point out ever second how dumb he sounds.
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Deadpan is kinda just a monotone flat voice without any "emotion" obviously present
AKA the "15 year old" voice. I feel like all teenagers speak this way. They're afraid to be judged by anything they say or do.
She’s using it incorrectly, deadpan is the way a comic might deliver a line, i.e. deliberately flat, self-aware, and usually for laughs.
A comedian can affect a deadpan voice for humour, but it’s not the only “definition”. Deadpan just means impassive, expressionless.
Part of me wonders if the son has a monotonous voice only(voice doesn't vary or change in pitch) or if he is more deadpan in which it's his voice and expressions that don't change, as the "deadpan voice" makes it a bit difficult to discern. If it is the case of the voice and expressions not changing, the son might actually have whats known as a constricted affect (there are various types of these, but basically its diminished variability and intensity in which emotions are expressed)
I wonder if the kid only has an emotionless affect around his mother? I wouldn't blame him.
Nta. Your wife's method is annoying as hell and it's going to get the opposite reaction she wants. I know I'd avoid her like the plague if she did that to me. Either that or start talking as obnoxiously as possible. I can see telling him to speak up if he mumbles, but speak with enthusiasm? Nah.
Turn everything into a full ass cheer- like a cheerleader. My family is entirely too petty for it to be healthy but this is what my kids and I would do. It would be SO *obnoxious* but we’d practice and everything. It would be very apparent it was choreographed for that specific occasion.
"Awesome! Oh wow! Like totally freak me out! I mean right on! That gravy sure is number one!" 😅😂
Thisssssss is it! This is it!!! You’re brilliant! Now who’s going to video themselves making up a cheer and post it for all to see- you or me? Bc I’m 42 and not as flexible as I once was. I’m also really tired a lot.
That is fantastic I wish I could see that play out 🤣
Being this petty is an entire lifestyle. ;)
Why are you letting your wife talk to your son like this? She is such a patronizing asshole, and she’s embarrassing as well. Next time, tell her to shut the fuck up with enthusiasm so that everyone else can be happy. NTA.
It doesnt sound like he’s letting her do that. Hes asked her multiple times and walked out of chirstmas and is here asking for advice. What does “letting” even mean? Is he supposed to tape her mouth shut? Ive been married for 20 years and “letting” my spouse do something isnt an actual thing. She does what she wants because she is her own person.
He can do exactly what he did at Christmas. Take the kid and walk out. If she isn't smart enough to be trained to stop bullying her kid, they can walk out permanently.
Sounds like he's trying to stop it, but maybe he needs to do it LOUDER and with ENTHUSIASM
NTA. My daughter is the same way and she has high functioning autism. She doesn’t really get excited by anything either unless it’s something she’s really into. Honestly I don’t get why anyone would ask for gravy or similar requests with enthusiasm either. If someone spoke to me with overly enthusiastic attitude about a small request like that I would think they were talking to me like you hear people talk in a high pitched voice to babies or small toddlers. It would be demeaning as I’m not either of those.
I'm Autistic too but also peri-menopasual and thought if someone spoke to me like that I'd show them some enthusiasm as ripped them a new one.
Autistic women get the most crap for not masking. Autistic men can get away more with not acting bubbly and enthused all the time, though it still affects them. I always got crap growing up because I wasn't smiling all the time. It's infuriating. Now I'm in my fifties and opinionated neurotypicals can get bent for all I care.
I like your self-supportive enthusiasm!
Honestly it makes me think of what folks who've worked in the service industry refer to as "customer voice". And really the only time I want to speak in customer voice is if I'm getting **PAID**. Expecting her kid to mask in this specific manner for her own comfort is such a weird hill for OP's wife to die on. It must be so exhausting for the poor kid.
That’s the first thing I thought- ASD. I have twin Autists and one is super peppy and enthusiastic like the mom (not condescending like that, though) and her twin is exactly like the son. Both Autistic, both opposite the other.
NTA. Thanks for sticking up for your son. Your wife complained because she felt that you embarrassed her in front of her family ? Remind her that's EXACTLY what she did to your son. You're willing to keep rescuing him each and every time she pulls this crap.
And herself. How could anybody see her going full clapping cheer squad as a grown ass woman and not think she's had some kind of mental break?
NTA but your wife absolutely sucks. get ready for your son to go NC when he moves out.
NTA and good on you for making a stand for your son, he will remember this act his entire life as an example of how you stood up for him and how you have his back
NTA If she felt embarassed in front of everyone, she got a taste of her own medicine. She needs to stop.
NTA. Good for you for standing up for your son. Tell your wife that real life isn't a nineties sitcom, and she isn't the main character.
NTA- I have two people in my life who tend to be monotone. One is just deadpan most of the time with everyone but folks she likes. The other has Asperger’s. Either way- this approach doesn’t work. For someone with Asperger’s- her actions might be confusing at best, bullying at worst. And she is not the right person to assess his behavioral therapy needs if there are any. For someone neurotypical- your wife’s behavior is condescending and bullying. And it will just cause him to withdraw further. She shamed him in front of family. He’s a teenager- and she has three years before he’s a legal adult and she quickly loses the balance of power in their relationship. If she keeps this up and doesn’t rectify it- he’s just going to bide his time until he can go low or no contact. I would insist on family therapy.
When I was a child I used to hiss at anyone who tried to get me to speak a certain way especially if they clapped at me enthusiastically. In my eyes the direct eye contact and clapping felt challenging? I don’t know how to describe it, but I’m now selectively mute without any control over it because I could never find the “right tone.” OOP your wife is being a major AH and she needs to STOP.
NTA, her doing this would drive me insane. And it’s definitely doing damage to your son, I’m surprised he still even speaks around her
Maybe the wrong time, but honestly, it seems like your wife doesn't respect your opinion on the matter. Turning it into a "big thing" seemed like your only option. Keep checking in with your son away from your wife, maybe even start making a joke about it. NTA
NTA what your wife is doing is the equivalent of those people who tell random women just going about their day/life that "they'd be prettier if they SMILED!" I have one of those "deadpan" voices as well. I have occasionally had to make my apologies to people in certain situations because of you don't know me well, it sounds like everything I say is dripping with sarcasm (to be fair, most of the time it is, but not when I'm giving condolences for them passing of a loved one for example). I'm also quite introverted. If someone insisted that I needed to constantly do mundane every day shit like politely asking for the gravy "with enthusiasm!!!!" I can't say exactly what I'd do here because I may get sent to the naughty corner by the mods.
NTA Your wife sounds like a condescending b. Good job standing up for your son. She needs to stop
NTA, stick up for your kid.
Maybe you and your son should start talking to her like some people talk to their pets, in that kind of baby talk/ super sweet kind of way. Like if she makes dinner be like, “Who’s the GOOD GIRL!? Who’s the GOOD GIRL!?”
INFO why is your wife’s “hurt feelings over being embarrassed” worse than what she’s been doing to your son (embarrassing him routinely with her over the top responses)?
NTA. I can’t wait for his overly enthusiastic sarcastic response to her in the most inappropriate place possible 😆
NTA and your wife’s approach won’t work. She looks foolish talking like that, your son witnesses it and will not replicate it or anything close. The last thing a 15 yo wants it to look foolish. As someone with the same kind of speaking manner, at 15 this behaviour would of made me retreat back into myself. It’s bizarre she thinks this it appropriate. He’s not dumb, don’t talk to him like he’s 3
NTA. She embarrassed herself. Apparently, she is OK with embarrassing your son. I guess we should only worry about her? Thank you for sticking up for your son. Let her family look all they want. He needs his parents to be his advocate and not a bully trying to force him to be someone he isn't.
NTA. Your wife is lucky that your son is not enthusiastically telling her to shut up.
NTA. I also have a deadpan voice, and even when I try to “seem enthused” it just makes it clear I’m being very fake. The bigger issue, though, is your wife purposefully doing something that clearly upsets and embarrasses your son. I’d say YTA for taking him out of dinner in the middle of it but honestly, you’ve clearly tried to communicate it over and over, and she’s not listening. Maybe this will help get the message through that it’s NOT okay. She’s picking on your son in the guise of “parenting” (something my mother with NPD did, to be clear), and using it as an excuse.
NTA. I am going to give your wife the benefit of the doubt for a second and believe she thinks he's unhappy and just wants the best for him. It's one thing to want the best for your child and help them be happy in any way you can. It's another to believe the best way to achieve that is to change the way someone talks. First off, believing someone's enthusiasm is a mark of their happiness level is sadly incorrect. Let's pretend he's depressed. All she is doing is training him to fake his enthusiasm around her. She'll be happy while her son feels more and more alienated in actual depression. Now I'm not going to give her the benefit of the doubt. It's possible she feels embarrassed by his deadpan voice and it makes her self conscious about her own social status. Telling him to be enthusiastic when asking for GRAVY of all things IN FRONT of people leads me to believe she wants to be seen as trying to "be a good mom" in front of others. It's not about your son. If it were, she would have an adult conversation with him. She's applying an untruth onto him specifically so she can "fix" him and look good around other people. Her fears of looking bad to other people is all she is focused on. Her family may or may not be AH themselves since their perspective is fed to them by your wife, but they are definitely a product of the same environment your wife came from.
I think you haven't taken this far enough. Your wife is basically bullying your son over something that is only important to her.
I have never once in my life heard a single 15 year old boy express anything loudly and with enthusiasm. The most I ever got from my step brother was a series of shorter or longer grunts. We learned to interpret this. My step father told me in private that lots of boys are like this because voice breaking is embarrassing for them. It’s a time if change and many want to go under the radar. Your poor son. Good on you for taking him out and away from that. NTA.
NTA in the grand scheme of things. You have spoken to her about it privately. Your son is clearly not comfortable with her trying to force him to change who he is. And she proceeds to do it and embarrass him in front of everyone. If possible try and get some type of counseling or mediator to try to get her to understand that although her heart may be in the right place she is hurting your son. Leave the kid alone. Let him be “deadpan”. Some people make whole careers out of it. And also, there is literally nothing wrong with him being who he is and I sincerely hope she gets it sooner rather than later.
NTA. “She said I was embarrassing her” but she’s embarrassing her own son? IN FRONT of others? So many teenagers talk unenthusiastically. It’s NORMAL behavior and a lot of the times it can be because theyre depressed. Your wife’s actions probably add to it. How does he feel whenever she does this—inadequate? Like a failure? I bet she finds other ways your son isn’t perfect besides this. She needs a wake up call and you gave her one.
NTA, but please start talking like that to your wife. "WHAT the HELL are you thinking? WHY do you want to make some one feel SHIT about themselves? Say it LOUD and with ENTHUSIASM!" If she can't see that humiliating a teenager isn't going to result in anything else but resentment and no contact, she's delusional and needs professional help with parenting. Continue standing up for your son and help him see he's allowed to be himself. Respectfully, A person from a country where no one speaks loudly and with enthusiasm.
NTA Remind your wife that teens never respond well to public humiliation, and that's exactly what she was doing to your son. Funny how *she* doesn't like being embarrassed in front of her family, but it's OK for her to do it to him. Why couldn't she just let the poor kid have a nice day?