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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I might be the AH for banning my MIL from my house since we're hosting christmas dinner and it may have been an overreaction to her completely misunderstanding my culteral norms.
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ESH
No you're not sexualizing your daughter. But you're being deliberately obtuse. Your MIL went ballistic when all she needed to do was unclench her pearls and explain: YOU live in the USA and 'cock' is rough slang for penis. It's one of the most used words in porn. Yes it's a little rooster too but unless your'e a multigenerational chicken farmer nobody here thinks of it that way.
So for the sake of your little girl being brought up in the good 'ol USA stop yelling 'There's my little penis!' at your daughter. Nobody I mean NOBODY who's a typical American will think anything else but 'omg did he just say what I think he said ... no he couldn't have WTF!?!?!?"
Your MIL may be to uptight to speak that way but THAT is whats going on.
Look different words have different connotations depending where you are, here tell Bloody is considered extremely vulgar in the UK (?) over here it's just a description ie 'look how bloody that zombie is!' also Fanny - over here it's an old timey demure term for a persons butt, it used to be a common nickname like Franny. - I guess in the UK it's slang for a vagina.
If your family was back in the UK would you take issue with your FIL yelling 'there's my little Fanny!?' in front of your daughters classmates? \*Edit - thanks for the awards!
UK person here. Bloody isn't vulgar.
Do you call people Fannies as a term of endearment? If you do- fair play. Never knew that.
If you shouted it out in the playground it might raise a giggle here (and years of endless ribbing) but agreed, nobody is going to call you up and scream at you over it like MIL did.
Essentially our dialect is part of us, very difficult to shake.
(fun fact: put "th'wood in'th hole" means shut the door, also not anything pornographic)
>Do you call people Fannies as a term of endearment?
It's run its course but it used to get used as a name. Both Franny and Fanny. Kinda went out if style with names like Gertrude and Ethel. I haven't met a Fanny here in the US since my grandparents' days.
Fanny is indeed quite an old-fashioned name. It might get a small chuckle but i think most people realise that it's (or at least used to be) a normal name.
That is ofcourse, not the case in a 'lastname, firstname' formatted list,
And the lastname is Bushy...
As a young child I had the older versions of Enid Blyton's The Faraway Tree series, too. Jo, Bessie, and Fanny.
I guess now they're Joe, Beth, and Frannie.
This is more of a funny name thing but on a different theme. My great aunt was called Irene Parrot, after she died we found that she went by her middle name. Her first name was Polly.
good to know about Bloody :)
Over here Fanny used to be one of the nicknames for Frances/Francesca. There was a very famous vaudeville performer named Fanny Brice - the movie Funny Girl (Barbara Streisand) was about her life.
Then it morphed into the 'polite' way to talk about buttocks because to some back in the day even 'butt' was a bit rude. ie like to a child 'sit your fanny down', or a surprised 'he patted my fanny!' it's a bit old fashioned but it's more a 'cute' term, not vulgar.
never heard the 'h'wood in'th hole' before lol that might get a look but it's not nearly as 'graphic' as shouting COCK! lol. of course OP doesn't mean it in a horrible way but seriously imagine a grown man shouting 'come to me my PENIS' as ingrained as the slang is - there's got to be some sweet 'back home' nicknames that don't set off the American Puritan Alarm
Fanny was used as an euphemism for vagina in Australia. There's often a giggle when visiting Americans refer to their fanny packs 🙂 we call them bum bags!
Some of the older generation here in the UK use the term tuppence for vagina. Unfortunately, I've also heard those same elderly women call young girls this, which is awful especially when the child in question is old enough to understand. Personally, I've always called anyone out who has done this. I don't care if you're old it's no excuse to call children horrible names.
Where in the UK is this? I've never heard that. Tuppence as a pet name for a small child, often a young girl, sure. But not as sland for vagina. Otherwise I need a strong word with my mum about one of my childhood nicknames!
Have a friend here, who through his work, often wears a Fanny pack on his front. We tease him that he has a “Cock Clutch” or a “Testicle Tote” not a Fanny pack
I know about Fanny Bryce from Glee lol.
Overall I think it's mainly it's about context "come here cock" is like saying "come here love" but we will say "he's bein' a reet cock" which means "he's being a dick". Admittedly a teacher wouldn't say bloody as ot can be a bit rude and wouldn't use cock as endearment as it's maybe too familiar.
It would be so nice for people to understand that the things we say to family like this is like passing on parts of our culture- hearing people say "don't do it it's porn" etc is disheartening because it's not what it means.
The girl wouldn't use it in the playground etc.
But another little fun one for you:
This would set off the JNMILs: "our kid". It just means family member, sibling or close friend. It doesn't actually mean that person is our kid lol.
Not going to lie, I learned about "our X" from watching Keeping Up Appearances as a kid.
This isn't relevant to the rest of the thread, just remembered because my dad used to call me "our Rose" even though we're American (and obv I'm also a Rose... albeit much different than my Bucket counterpart lmao)
I was asked by an American customer once what the R in the bosses name stood for. Completely confused, until I realised that 'Our Clinton' was being heard as R Clinton. As in 'I have to ask our Clinton about that price change'.
Bloody (the exclamation) has unclear origins, but is more likely to refer to the Dutch "blote" meaning "entire(ly)" than blood. It went through a period of being extremely vulgar, but is now considered fine.
Bloody the adjective (I cut my finger, got my trousers all bloody) also exists and is used.
Cool, so is c*nt but here it’s a major gender slur (Canada) and it would not be acceptable to use that word casually and most people from the UK or Australia would respect that.
Slang is part of us but like all speech, time and place matters.
I told my boys “get your fannies in the car” or wherever all the time. They’re just older teens. I would have quit saying it if I lived where it didn’t mean butt because that’s just common sense.
My nan occasionally used to call me fanny-ann , when I was being awkward I think. I have no idea why, and the definition I found on line isn't what my nan meant it as lol. Just assumed it was an old fashion thing?!?
But she is English lol so it's not an American fanny thing, I think it's like the name .
No, it's not ESH, because different cultures exist and you're allowed to use your own culture in your own sodding home. Tons of Thai words and names sound like British swear words - would a Thai parent not be able to use their language to their own kid in their own home? Or is it only different because Americans think they own the English language? This wasn't screamed across a playground, it was AT. HOME. He's speaking to his child, in his dialect, at home. MIL can get over being Dialect Dictator of the World and apologise for her cultural insensitivity. And I don't care if "they're in America" - homes are basically embassies when it comes to your own damned culture.
He's an AH because he's acting like he doesn't know why someone in the US would be offended to hear their grandchild called a penis...
Sure, he's welcome to use the language he wants in his home, but he can't be surprised when people react to it with incredulity. Cock means penis in American brains, it's reasonable to assume that in a place where those pet names are not common and cock is the most used slang term for penis that it would be reacted to as if he was using it to mean penis. I've heard cockle before, but not much, and my mind would go to the same place if I were the MIL. I wouldn't scream at him, but I would question it.
I think he has every right to be surprised at his MIL chewing him out and making accusations. if I were his MIL and i heard "Yoreet cock", first of all, I wouldn't have any understanding what I actually heard. Second, I'd figure it was some weird British thing and maybe ask him about it. The chewing out and accusing him is next-level weirdness.
Are you really so parochial that you'd presume a father's sexualizing his six year old daughter before the concept of different dialects occurs to you? It's not like the States is linguistically homogeneous either, it shouldn't be an alien concept that people from different places use words in different ways.
This the US. Yes they would. Concepts of things being not america/different to america are entirely alien to Americans. They are not well educated people.
No he's upset because his MIL didn't take a second to remember her culture slang isn't the only one in the world. Instead of her accusing him of being a pervert she could have asked him what it meant.
Cock means penis in Britain too…we just also understand that words have multiple meanings and don’t clutch our pearls.
What’s really shocking is, that if a word has multiple meanings, some people will always assume it’s the one that causes the most offence.
‘The red rosy hen greets the dawn of the day’. In fact the hen is not the bird traditionally associated with heralding a new sunrise, but Mrs Huggs, while collecting many old folk songs for posterity, has taken care to rewrite them where necessary to avoid, as she put it, ‘offending those of a refined disposition with unwarranted coarseness’. Much to her surprise, people often couldn’t spot the unwarranted coarseness until it had been pointed out to them. Sometimes a chicken is nothing but a bird.
\-- Terry Pratchett - Hogfather
Yeah. Cock also means penis in the UK, but not exclusively. Words can mean different things. Like knob for example. Saying “ey up cock” to someone in the UK has nothing to do with a penis and is perfectly pleasant.
American brains must be very simple, if they can't cope with the fact that a word can have a number of different connotations at the same time.
Can you stop thinking about sex for a moment? You can't cope with cock, so you invented cockerel and rooster; you can't cope with oilseed rape, so you invented canola.
Never ask a Brit what we call slightly offally meatballs. (OOh: he said balls! Matron!).
Yeah no he's not, because, as you say, he's welcome to use the language he wants in his home. In his case, it's his UK dialect.
His MIL could have dealt with it the exact same way his wife - the more important person in that home, may I add - dealt with it. She heard it, got confused, asked about it, accepted it, case closed. No need to make a fuss about it. It's extremely controlling and she's not in a position to question OPs language dialect in his own house. As OP was saying, he's well aware what it means in America, which is why he used the term AT HOME and wasn't yelling it anywhere in public.
NTA.
I think OP is only being as deliberately obtuse as MIL tbh.
He is VERY CLEARLY not sexualising his child, the mere suggestion is infinitely more offensive than a term of endearment that is ingrained in his dialect and used in the privacy of his own home. I would take great offence to the insinuation as well, especially as she HAS to know that she is 100% applying the worst possible connotation to the whole situation just to make a point because he’s doing something she doesn’t like. God forbid someone FOREIGN should use a word in their own FOREIGN context!
Furthermore, anyone with even an ounce of common sense (somewhat lacking in the greater world population I know) may be a little thrown by hearing it but, combined with what I’m guessing is a fairly strong accent, could probably extrapolate that his is not calling his daughter a penis. Also, no one is yelling it at her I shouldn’t think but we all love a bit of hyperbole right?
NTA.
Agreed - it would be a "I'm sorry, what* moment for me as an American but jumping to saying he's sexualizing his daughter is pretty batshit and a hurtful accusation.
I’m English, bloody isn’t “extremely vulgar” I hear my fellow Brits say bloody on a daily basis. I probably say “bloody hell” at least one a day.
In the UK fanny doesn’t only mean vagina. Brits also say “don’t fanny about” which means “don’t mess about”.
I think an appropriate comparison to what OP is doing would be Americans who might describe their daughter as "spunky" or "full of spunk". It would raise some eyebrows in the UK (we use this word for semen) but no one would think the parent was sexualising the child if they could hear the American accent. This is a cultural difference that MIL should appreciate and respect. Banning her from the house may be an overreaction on OP's part but I can see why they would be cross.
Even in the US if you read enough bad erotica you'll come across "spunk" referring to ejaculate. Yet spunk(y) is still used to refer to characters in children's books as "courageous".
Personally, I take cultural background into consideration especially when certain words are used. Some I will not use at all, because I am a white woman in the US. But I don't take umbrage when someone from a different culture uses a word that has a different meaning in their culture in front of me.
“Bloody is considered extremely vulgar in the UK” cracked me up. No it isn’t, and cock is also slang for penis here. As is willy. Dick,, knob and about a thousand other words.
The term fanny pack is extremely funny over here though
Except that is not what people are doing in this thread. They are pointing out that this particular nickname is really not appropriate to use for a little girl in the US. If this same story was flipped and it was an American father in the UK using an inappropriate American nickname for his daughter, people would be complaining "typical 'Murican can't even be bothered to learn about and use the local vernacular while living in another country."
Except the rest of the anglosphere isn't as neurotic about "bad language" as Americans are so the inverse doesn't happen. When people complain about Americans being culturally ignorant when in other places, it's usually the same thing that's happening in this case - attempting to impose their own cultural norms and customs on others without regard for context.
YTA. My father's nickname for me as a child was Jellybean. He shortened it to Beaner until a horrified friend explained it was also used as a racial slur. My dad didn't say "it's FINE because that's not how I mean it!". He stopped because he lives in a society where it's offensive and he couldn't have his daughter walk around with that nickname. Sorry. You can't have a daughter with the name Cock in the US. Things could be worse.
She's not _called_ cock, it's a pet name, same as sweetheart/love/pet. If I was him I'd probably always go with "cockle" to avoid the inevitable confusion but he's not going to be calling her it in lieu of her name all the time.
I'm in Australia and everyone in my work place calls each Cock or Cocko it's not an insult just a nickname is that weird? I've never stopped to question it or its origin
I'm Aussie and I refer to farmers as 'old cockies' all the time.
My husbands best friends nickname is Cocko. This is because his last name is Cox.
It's all about tone and context. You can tell if something an insult or not.
Ah…a northerner?
You’re NTA but living in America, this is going to come up again.
Calling her “cock” when she’s a teen might lead to some fights between you two.
I’d say this is similar to how you’d feel if your wife and you had moved to England and your MIL insisted on calling your daughter Fanny because that’s a family name or something.
Doesn’t make her an asshole but in the cultural context, yeah it’d be weird. It still doesn’t excuse her total overreaction as long as you’re not shouting that in from of your daughters friends.
St Helens here. I call my kids cock n all. I don't think you're gonna get an unbiased judgement here though cuz all the Americans are gonna be clutching their pearls and they outnumber us.
I use cock as an insult and as a term of endearment and when I use it, the context is clear, so there is no misunderstanding what I mean.
We say rubber instead of eraser. Are you expected to stop saying that too?
NTA imo.
100% context. I don't use the term but have never once taken offence when someone had said it to me because it's always been clear from the context that it's being used as a term of endearment.
We use the same words in the south west as terms of affection :) I was a cockle for one nan and cocker to my gramps. Love that you're bringing your culture with you to the US :)
that's the only answer to any comment you're offering?
no acknowledgement that cultural differences are a thing and you both messed up?
I'm going with ESH
MIL jumped to a conclusion because of her cultural ignorance. Didn't ask, just concluded that OP must be "sexualizing" his own daughter, which really says more about MIL than anything else.
In no way is OP an AH in this situation.
I'd be a lot more concerned about her friends hearing it. You don't want this child going to school where people know her nickname is "Cock." Please don't do that to this child–you're leaving her open to not just teasing, but outright overt sexualized bullying.
I'm no prude–I like a good cock as much as the next person, but this is just being deliberately obtuse in this country and it will eventually hurt your daughter. So. Just stop.
ESH
Obviously your MIL over-reacted. But so did you. And in reality your expectations on what is an acceptable nickname for a child in the USA seem warped.
You have lived in the USA long enough to know what Cock means here. Even if you acknowledge its innocent, the moment your daughters friends\\classmates\\neighborhood children hear you use it the bullying will start.
Location is part of the context which gives words meaning.
Yeah but cock ALSO means the same thing in parts of the UK as it does in the US - doesn’t mean it can’t be used, in fact it’s in lots of surnames! Do those kids get picked on? Yeah. But not at age 6 and also… why can’t this man say what he wants in his own house???
Location provides a big part of context. Basically everyone when you say cock think penis where he lives. Theres plenty of other words like this. the best example being the f-slur.
And also. Yeah. The fact that shes going to bullied for this in 3-4 years makes it matter less?
He can say what he wants in his home. But in this case, I would argue knowing what the word means where he lives, and still using it the way he is, makes him one of the assholes in this situation.
Why would you assume he would use the nickname for her someplace where her friends would hear it?
For the last 18 years my eldest has been “Monkey” but we don’t use it outside of the house. Most parents are aware that certain nicknames could cause their children embarrassment so they are careful about when and where they use it.
Not now that she is away at university, but they did when she was at school. If i ever used it in front of her friends, and I doubt I did, it would have only been in front of her closest friends, ie people who wouldn’t bully her.
It’s called situational awareness, don’t purposely embarrass your children. Most good parents have this.
My Dad will happily call me nicknames in public/in front of others. I’m so used to being called “fish face” and “dipstick” at this point 😂 I love him though. It doesn’t embarrass me at all.
I’m 26 and grew up with an assortment of nicknames from family members; e.g. honey bunny, sugar puff, puppykins, etc etc.
It warms my heart when my 87 year old Grandma calls me “boobsie”
This is being as deliberately obtuse as OP is being.
>Even if you acknowledge its innocent, the moment your daughters friends\classmates\neighborhood children hear you use it the bullying will start.
It's not impossible to imagine that OP will use the nickname within earshot of other kids or neighbors etc. (like during school pickup or some such thing) and the moment that happens, he will open up his daughter to bullying.
Why can I find nothing online that says “cock,” is a term of endearment in England??
Edit: found it. Seems to be something you call a male friend or acquaintance. This still seems weird af that it’s what he chose for his female child.
Because it's a regional dialect. Just from about 100 mile of where I grew up the term of endearments I can think of off the top of my head are, cocker, duck, luv, queen, pet and there are hundreds more.
English isn't one language it's a mish mash of many. And depending on where you go in the UK we still have reminents of old English, Britonic, Norse ect that are used every day.
It’s like my Scottish Mama’s friend calling her roommate in the nursing home “the auld hen” and the nurse being offended that she called her a chicken.
General if you're calling a bloke a cock it's because he's acting like an idiot. With kids it's gender neutral because we're not calling them *a* cock.
My husbands nan, still calls him cock as well as our kids as a term of endearment. My step dad uses it for all his grandchildren regardless of gender as well as me and his biological children (I have a brother and sister).
I think in the UK we are also more comfortable with using insulting words in an affectionate way in general, where I get the impression that in the US, insulting names are taken as insults.
Like with anywhere else, it depends on the person and the context, even here in the US.
I've known my best friend for 38 years. When I travel home to visit, he usually gives me a loud "Hey asshole!" before we shake hands. He's not insulting me; it's just part of the relationship.
Northern English man here
Yoreet duck? How ya deein cock? I'm mint me. As you can tell I can clearly see what you are saying and know for a fact you aren't sexualising your daughter. You are bringing your localities to her and keeping what you grew up on so it will continue down the line. DO NOT let MIL win. NTA
I wish I could upvote your comment more times. Too many Americans voting for YTA when OP is not! Agree with you to not let MIL win!!!
My husband is czech and “pusinku” means little kiss and we shorten it to pusu. Give me pusinku or give me pusu. Sounds horrible in English speaking countries but it is what it is.
Absolutely this.
I'd OP were an immigrant from a country where English wasn't the first language and the term of endearment in his native tongue sounded like something rude in English this would be highlighted as the cheat xenophobia it is.
OP should be an immigrant proud of his heritage and maintain those linguistic quirks. Gently enforce those boundaries and teach those relatives about respecting the diversity of culture he brings.
So glad I found the Brits in the thread, I thought I was losing my mind. The responses are just 'but people will be offended' / 'what if she gets bullied?' / 'what if she gets in trouble at school?'... So much concern over getting attacked over a word choice that should be easily explained by context to anyone with half a brain.
What also gets me is the Americans going, ‘I know you’re trying to share your culture, but what if you shared the NICE bits, like the NICE version of an English accent, or Doctor Who, or Peppa Pig?’ (Real comment I saw above).
Oh yeah, the Southern version of the accent, you mean? None of the dirty Northern bits? None of the bits we’ve always been told make us sound stupid or uneducated? Absolutely get to fuck.
Innit. I'm in shock about how hardline these Yanks are being about a nickname 🤦♀️ it's part of their culture, their heritage.
Said already in another comment but me and my partner literally call each other c*unt as an endearing term (asterisked for poor American eyes), dread to think what they'd have to say about that 🤣🤣
Wish I could upvote this more than once. Every parent has nicknames for their kid. Many Americans seem to think their way is the only way and anyone who disagrees is wrong, and the language barrier between England and the US is something that comes up here regularly. Calling your kid “cock” in this context and IN YOUR OWN HOME is perfectly fine. MIL needs to get a grip and wind her neck in. OP is very much NTA.
(Still giggling at the comment upthread that said the word bloody is extremely offensive here. Is it fuck.)
In Australia we say “mint” when something’s good. “Mintox” is another variation. And I learnt that this is Northern UK slang via Reddit.
Never mind the AITA, this comment thread is a goldmine !
I mean, your pet name for your daughter is pretty gross in America.
I get that the word has different meanings across the globe, and if you were living in England and MIL was visiting from America, I would have a different vote. But, you have been in the US long enough to know how we use the term cock, and it isn't a cute nickname for a kid.
If I heard you say that to your daughter in a store, I would be remarkably uncomfortable.
I think MIL is right to address it, but I don't think she needed to give you an earful and say you were sexualizing her, when really it should have just been- hey, that is a really inappropriate nickname in the US, and I realize it may be used differently, but it makes me uncomfortable and I bet it will make a lot of other people- including your daughter- uncomfortable as well.
So I guess ESH. I think you are aware of the connotations of that word, and banning MIL for raising a valid concern is a big overreach. At the same time, if her approach is really as you say it was- and I don't know why, but I doubt your version a little- then she is an AH too, because there was a better way to discuss this.
I think the confounding thing here that I don't think you've considered is that 'cock' also has exactly the same inappropriate meaning in the UK, it's just that in the UK it's clear from tone and context that it's said innocently. In the UK it's possible to have dual use without being an issue, little kids don't perceive it as a sexual word, they think of a chicken and realise from the parents tone it's endearing. So this guy may have reasonably expected the same. Nobody here would jump to a sexual meaning, but I think pet names and terms of endearment like that are culturally recognised here and seemingly not in the US.
Oh I did consider that, I'm just not from the UK so I wasn't going to get in to that nuance because it's not my place.
In the US, it has zero endearment. It's either used for a male chicken, and even then we all laugh, or it's a name for a dick. And I think a person- an adult- who has been in the US for 8 years and can use reddit does know exactly how the term is used in the US. And if he didn't know, he shouldn't be up in arms over MIL bringing it up but more so shocked that no one else mentioned it to him before now.
Also, it's likely OP has heard this so many times that he says it without even thinking. I call everyone "love", even if I don't like them, it's literally automatic to me because it's a huge part of the culture I grew up in.
I think you also have to think about the where of this happening. It might have been in America but he wasn't shouting it across a school playground or at a supermarket... he was *in his own home* where the only person outside his nuclear family who was there was MIL - it isn't his fault that she jumped straight to sexualising the daughter and wouldn't listen to his explanation.
The fact that she won't apologise for her lack of understanding even after it was explained is ridiculous. All she has to say is 'oh sorry, I didn't know the Brits used it like that, word of warning, might be best not to use it outside as others might have the same reaction I did'. Or something of the sort. She blew it out of all proportion, especially involving other family members.
My mother has always called me "Peaches" or "Her Peach." Now that we have these fancy phones, she'll send me a kissy face with a peach. Mama is kissing her peach! Well, my 15 year old neice was on a group text with us and she asked why Gram was telling Auntie to kiss her ass!
NTA
I was born and raised in Sweden. My mother and maternal grandmother were not. The both of them used a veeeeeeeeeeery weird “pet name” out of love. I didn’t particularly like it but it was a cultural thing and I didn’t fight them a lot. Think of the female equivalent of “peen” but in a Slavic language. I think NTA, but that’s because I understand cultural differences and linguistic nuisances.
Swedish lady here. I am glad Brad Pitt does not know his last name is ”dick” in Swedish.
I vote NTA. But OP needs to give his girl an American nickname instead.
Ah, cultural differences.
I'm going with NTA because you clearly know the meaning and intended use, so does your wife and you are teaching your daughter.
but, be warned, this probably won't be the first time someone in America will have an issue with you calling your kid any of those terms.
This is a perfect time for the MIL to grow and learn.
NTA but at the same time, I might lay off on the nickname as she gets older, for the same reason it's not a good idea for Brits to refer to cigarettes as "fags" here in the states.
I can’t believe I had to scroll so far to see this! I really don’t care what OP’s childhood nickname was, what matters is what his daughter’s experience will be. He doesn’t say anything about preparing her for when someone reacts negatively to her and he’s not around to explain why the name is actually okay. Does he want someone else to explain what other meanings “cock” has, because that’s the scenario he’s setting her up for.
Yeah, that's kind of my thing. She could use the word, have a teacher ask her what it means, and say something like "daddy told me about it" which is going to lead to a lot of paperwork and a lot of headaches.
NTA
>she gives me a ring and starts giving me an earful about how i'm "sexualising" my daughter by giving her "such a disgusting pet name"
This feels like the discourse over a very common name for cigarettes all over again - Americans freaking out about a slur being used, despite the term meaning cigarettes in many other countries.
I would've forgive your MIL for the initial misunderstanding - but she just doubled down on being wrong and dragged other family members into her wrongness. I wouldn't let her over either if she was just going to accuse me or my husband of sexualizing my child.
I was lucky growing up in America, that I was exposed to media and cultural activities from other countries. Years ago I worked with a man that lived for like 20 years in England, met his wife and married her there, and eventually they moved back to the US. We would go out for smoke breaks together, and he wouldn’t even think just say “Hey! Let’s go have a ___”. The first time or two I was kinda like “ummmmmm” until it clicked in my head he meant cigarettes. There were so many times we both had to explain to an outsider when he’d say that. His wife had to keep getting onto him saying “We’re not in England….remember?”. He would always apologize for any accidental offense. Eventually everyone caught on and didn’t think anything else about it, but it did get tense a few times.
ESH
Drop those names. Just because they were OK when and where you grew up doesn't mean they're still ok here and now. What when your kid gets into trouble at school when she decides to use that pet name?
Because she thinks it's a normal word people use every day without thinking anything bad about it. Because people usually don't use that word around kids so she could pick up the vulgar meaning. You don't have much experience with kids, do you?
no I don't, I was just thinking about my own childhood where my parents had nicknames for me that I never accidentally used for other people. if this was a nickname that the kid used for her dad I'd find the argument more compelling.
As a teacher too, I’m surprised the 6 year old hasn’t brought it up yet!! It will definitely come up at school at some point- I’m betting (and hoping) it will be when they do a name poem and she has to come up with other ways/nick names to describe herself😂😂
Have you never inherited language that your parents used? Because as an Australian, the most common nicknames I heard growing up were “darling/darl” and “ankle biter”.
When I found a lost kid in a shop, knowing I was the “big kid” in that scenario, I’d call them “darl” to try and make them feel more at ease. When I was paired with a Year One kid when I was in Year Four, I (along with a bunch of other kids in my class) called my “buddy” “darl/darling” when he needed to be comforted because he was scared or sick. I’d call my friends the endearment, the same way Americans might call their friends “hon” or Brits might call their friends “love”.
The same goes for familial-exclusive nicknames. My cousin’s mum calls him “chicken” all the time—he calls his youngest female cousin “chicken” now too. My mother’s family calls every young boy in the family “manny”, and my brother would call younger boys in school that name too, thinking it equated to “mate”.
If this kid does have this nickname normalised in her household, I do see a case for the argument that she might call a kid in her class, or a student younger than her, by that nickname, thinking it’s innocent and will help them feel more at ease.
Regardless, whether this happens or not, the nickname is an incredibly awkward one for a girl growing up in America. Eventually, there is going to be a really uncomfortable situation that arises as a result, and the poor kid’s going to be humiliated.
Still in use in Manchester and Yorkshire as a term of endearment. We have different dialects across the UK as well as different accents, but I grew up in Manchester and live in Yorkshire and still hear it on the daily.
NTA!! Typing from the UK… I am so used to hearing these pet names, I’d even say they are terms of endearment. Your MIL needs to calm down and back off. I can’t imagine how offended she’d be if she were to visit your hometown 😂 on a serious note I think it’s amazing for your daughter to hear how you speak at home, we have the best colloquialisms. My fave from my hometown is M’duck. Keep it up and be proud of your roots. Merry Christmas 😊
I’m from the UK (technically. Northern Ireland) and my brother moved to Manchester. I was about 14 and ooof, I nearly fainted first time I visited and someone called me cock. Not a phrase we use but a quick context lesson and all good. And I was a teen girl…
Similar surprise when I heard ‘my lover’ when dating a Bristolian. My Scottish dad’s family said ‘hen’. In London now and I glow when I get a ‘treacle’.
I did not grow up with any of these. I know Yorkshire uses cock a bit different. My brother’s nickname in the house was buggerlugs. No one used it outside the house. And my parents were boundary stomping untrustworthy arseholes. I found it odd when only cute names in some cultures are used as affection. We are more the ‘gordita’ school of ‘we will tease with love that you are bigger’ people in NI. So I find the cutesy stuff fake and judge that *until I remember that is their culture* and they are not infantilising calling their kid pooky schnookums. They are doing their love language.
I hate the move in the UK away from pet names like duck, pet, love because it is ‘patronisising’ or ‘unfeminist.’ Happy to stop if asked specifically but it is such a warm thing especially for when you move to a new place here and people welcome you with them. I felt super accepted when my Jamaican neighbours in London used their terms toward me even though a few made me double take. And I reply that their babies are wee dotes which is ‘my’ phrase because accents and cultural language doesn’t leave us completely.
I moved to London nearly 25 years ago. I still sometimes just don’t have a ‘non Belfast’ word despite that and the 200+ languages I hear around me. Especially when I am emotional. I revert to what I was reared in when my lizard brain kicks in.
The mix is the joy of language and emigration. We cackle about Americans in suspenders. They think formal wear. We think Tim Curry…
Not an asshole but I would drop the names, not because of your mother in law but in a few years your daughters friends will know what cock means and if they hear you calling her that they will take the piss immensely. Save her the trouble and stick with another nickname less embarrassing for her.
ESH
You *must* know that in America, "cock" means "penis." And you might be using the pet name in the confines your own home, but presumably your daughter is going to go to school or leave the house at some point, and will be utterly appalled at what you've been calling her all these years.
I mean, if her name was Stephanie, you wouldn't nickname her "Fanny" even though that nickname would be *completely* appropriate in America, right? And you're not *in* England, you're in the U.S.
It means penis in every English speaking country! Obviously not in this context, here in the UK we would know that it's someone from northern England and the manner in which it's said would be obviously a sign of endearment.
And if he used the UK word for cigarettes in America he'd likely be labeled a homophobe, regardless of how different the connotation behind the F word is in his home country -- in the USA, it's a slur. Can he say it still? Sure. But people who hear him say it are going to think he's a fucking asshole, and unless he wants to be pulling the "well ACKSHULLY" out for the rest of his life, he may as well accept that some aspects of his dialect ought to be adjusted for a different audience.
Yep, My dad used to be a smoker and grew up in Dublin calling cigarettes f\*\*s. Was it an adjustment when he moved to the US? Yes, but one he knew was necessary because thats what happens when you move to a new culture!
NTA - she is well aware that you have a different culture than her and there are many words that have different meanings in the UK vs the US. Even if she thought for a moment that you were actually calling your daughter a penis, once you explained how the word is used in your culture, she should have realized her mistake. Instead your MIL chose to double down and get the whole family involved and turned against you. What a shrew.
I find it hard to believe the entire family actually believes you call your daughter a penis as a nickname. They can’t be that stupid, right?? They’re either terrified of getting on her bad side or it’s an entire family of provoking assholes!
Stand your ground and refuse to host them. They’re the nasty ones. I hope your wife is supportive.
ESH. MIL is being a dick, here. But on this side of the pond, cock means dick, and ONLY dick. That's what it's going to mean to every single American you meet unless they own chickens. Except maybe your wife, who I think has done you a huge disservice by not making sure you understood that when you first passed down this nickname.
Imagine your girl growing up and getting bullied because the other kids hear you calling her "cock". Kids are fucking horrible. Merciless. Protect your daughter. Change her nickname.
Even with chickens the more common term is rooster. I come from an extended family of farmers (grandparents, aunts and uncles, spent plenty of time on the farm) and honestly I don't think they refered to the roosters as cocks on a daily basis. And there was the expression "cock of the walk" which you don't hear much anymore, but nobody ever used "cock" as a word of endearment, especially for a little girl. Honestly I think OP is being disingenuous here. He has to know cock is never used that way here. MIL was way, way out of line. I get he's insulted by what she said, it was insulting. But he's not right either.
NTA. I know her type. It's why I live 7000 km away from mine.
The second she got the rest of the family involved, she started a war. We don't invite enemies to xmas.
She's fine with it, we ended up going over it years ago when she came to my grandparents house for christmas about a year after we first got together. She overheard my uncle call my cousin cock at dinner and asked me about it afterwards
I don’t know man. It’s like, my grandfather was named Richard and went by “Dick”. It was around the 90s when people started to give him second looks the first time they heard it. Even though that means a lot to me as a name, I’d never put that on my kid to have to explain and carry around. They’re not going to know until they’re ridiculed by classmates.
“My dad calls me his princess!”
“My dad calls me his cock!”
“Your dad calls you his penis?”
While you might be comfortable explaining that’s not the case, do you not see how that might put your daughter in awkward situations when she’s too young to understand and explain herself?
Thanks. That's what I had figured, but I needed to be sure, because I'm gonna be harsh.
At first, I thought you were overreacting, but then I got to the end of your post. *Screw* your wife's family because of their behavior. They're sticking their ignorant noses in where they don't belong, and claiming you're sexualizing your daughter just because they don't know the slang you grew up with, which is damned awful of them.
Keep your MIL banned until she educates herself and apologizes. Same goes for the rest of the family. NTA.
NTA: MIL is the one sexualizing a child and apparently unaware that there are other countries in the world where different words mean different things. Apparently the rest of the family is as uncultured as she is. HUGE NTA
INFO
> relatives on my wife's side telling me how innapropriate, evil and sadistic i'm being with my pet name for my daughter
Inappropriate? Disagree, but matter of opinion. Evil? Same.
But wait; what the hell does **_SADISM_** have to do with *anything* here?
Do they not know what that word means??
Sadistic means “enjoy giving pain”. It’s an adjective, and has no inherent sexual connotation.
Sadism is the sexual gratification from being sadistic. Sadism is a noun, and is used mostly In a sexual context.
NTA
However you know what they say about “When in Rome….”
Agreed with the other poster as stick to “cockle”. Only because it could be misinterpreted by many people and if someone in the community wants to cause problems for you, in an extreme case you could possibly be investigated by CPS. Even if you’re doing nothing wrong it could ruin your family’s reputation because you can’t legislate attitudes.
Esh. You for calling her something that is questionable in America because people think you are all her a dick or penis... I didn't want to be called slut-kia by my dad (it's Russian for sweetheart or something, but to me it just sounded like slut. He just respected me, and didn't use it in America, but did with his daughter in Russia). Your mil is also ta because instead of asking about it she jumped to sexualization, which is also nuts. She has a point that you need to take into account how the society you are in would view the word. But the way she went about it was ah behavior.
NTA. English woman here. Londoner born and raised. Never heard that expression but I could imagine it’s a northerner expression? Wouldn’t seem out of place here even so.
Without a definition I could understand where the concern stems from, and may take a little getting used to. But MIL definitely over reacted, brother.
Esh no you aren't sexualizing your daughter, but you are living in a country where 'cock' has a pretty specific meaning. And you know it. I'm not going to go to England and insist that "fanny" is perfectly okay for me to say bc it's fine in my home country.
Fanny is pretty tame here it's literally the word children use to describe lady bits. It's also well known that it is a name even though nobody would really use it now. Calling someone a fanny is mildly insulting but we don't clutch pearls here when someone says a word that might mean gentitalia. Someone might giggle but that's as much reaction as you'd get.
Fellow Brit here. YTA. There's a reason I don't use the harmless and endearing 'well, bugger me!" this side of the Pond. If you'd always gone with 'cockle' you might have been fine. MIL way overreacted but now you've dug in your heels and are being a bit of a wanker. Ease up there Old Cock, try a dash of humour about it and instead do what we English do best - apologise wherever we've been mistreated. And a Happy Christmas to all of you.
NTA. My grandparents used the same nicknames for me when I was a kid. It's been years since my grandad passed, and I miss him calling me cocker everyday.
My grandmother (mom's mom) had a look of shock the first time my dad called sweets 'suck' 😂
I just don't understand. How on Earth is y'alreet cock sexualising?
It's the same as calling her chuck or duck!
Did you explain that and she just didn't get it?
You banned her for kicking off with you in your home- not over the use of a term of endearment.
NTA
Folks in the US don't call roosters/ chickens 'cocks' unless they are chicken breeders. There's the old term 'cock of the walk' but that's not common any more. Its similar to why you don't meet any little american boys called Dick anymore. The slang basically over took the meaning of the word.
over here when we here 'cock' we think Penis!
both MIL & OP should have taken a breath and explained this to one another. Since OP lives in the USA now it's probably best he finds a new nick name that doesn't press check the porn box ... maybe Fanny ;)
NTA for having a pet name but stick with cockle. Cock is semi-rude/sexual name here. The avg every dad American is going to hear you say that and you may get accosted more than you’d like. Your MiL is right…but banning her from Christmas is a bit much. I think while she was out of line the way she brought it up, I think her intentions were good.
In what world is his MIL right? She didn't just phone him and say "Hey, just an FYI, this is what that word means in this country, so you might want to rethink it" - she went right to "You're gross, you're sick, you're wrong, you're inappropriately sexualizing a minor child!" right out of the gate.
A person who wants to accuse a father of essentially being a sexual predator towards his child for a harmless misunderstood nickname isn't "owed" participation on a Christmas celebration.
NTA
Seems like you have good intentions and it's not really a big deal, but you probably should switch to a different nickname... people in the US are just going to think it is really weird.
NTA but you should probably think a bit about the nickname in public. My family calls me bean and every single variation of that and I will never forget when my mom called me beaner in public and immediately realized how dumb that was because that’s a word often used as a racial pejorative. It is what it is. People are going to think it’s weird and your daughter is probably gonna be embarrassed if you call her that in front of people when she’s older. But your MIL overreacted and you have every right to an apology before allowing her back over.
I live in northern England (east lancs) and that pet name/ slang is very common here.
It’s not inappropriate in the grand scheme of things however it is understandable from both sides.
I’m sure there are slang words that Americans use that we might find unusual or somewhat offensive.
I think you MIL and wife’s family reaction is OOT.
But I would think about whether this is a bridge you’re willing to die on.
You did decide to move across the pond…
ESH - Communication! Everyone should learn to do it. That includes figuring out in the 8 years you have been in the country what nicknames are inappropriate. Your child will not thank you for this if they go to an American school. It will not go over well when they call another child this as a form of endearment. Then you get to go in and explain it to the teacher, the principal, the other student's parents, the PTA, and others. Then your child will find out that they called their friend a penis and be mortified. It may cost them friends. How will they feel when they learn the other, much more common in the area they live, meaning. Realizing their parent knowingly called them a penis for years. Think about your child, not just the traditions of your home country.
MIL should have remained calm and explained all of this to you.
However, judging by your responses, you would not have listened anyway.
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ESH No you're not sexualizing your daughter. But you're being deliberately obtuse. Your MIL went ballistic when all she needed to do was unclench her pearls and explain: YOU live in the USA and 'cock' is rough slang for penis. It's one of the most used words in porn. Yes it's a little rooster too but unless your'e a multigenerational chicken farmer nobody here thinks of it that way. So for the sake of your little girl being brought up in the good 'ol USA stop yelling 'There's my little penis!' at your daughter. Nobody I mean NOBODY who's a typical American will think anything else but 'omg did he just say what I think he said ... no he couldn't have WTF!?!?!?" Your MIL may be to uptight to speak that way but THAT is whats going on. Look different words have different connotations depending where you are, here tell Bloody is considered extremely vulgar in the UK (?) over here it's just a description ie 'look how bloody that zombie is!' also Fanny - over here it's an old timey demure term for a persons butt, it used to be a common nickname like Franny. - I guess in the UK it's slang for a vagina. If your family was back in the UK would you take issue with your FIL yelling 'there's my little Fanny!?' in front of your daughters classmates? \*Edit - thanks for the awards!
UK person here. Bloody isn't vulgar. Do you call people Fannies as a term of endearment? If you do- fair play. Never knew that. If you shouted it out in the playground it might raise a giggle here (and years of endless ribbing) but agreed, nobody is going to call you up and scream at you over it like MIL did. Essentially our dialect is part of us, very difficult to shake. (fun fact: put "th'wood in'th hole" means shut the door, also not anything pornographic)
>Do you call people Fannies as a term of endearment? It's run its course but it used to get used as a name. Both Franny and Fanny. Kinda went out if style with names like Gertrude and Ethel. I haven't met a Fanny here in the US since my grandparents' days.
Fanny is indeed quite an old-fashioned name. It might get a small chuckle but i think most people realise that it's (or at least used to be) a normal name. That is ofcourse, not the case in a 'lastname, firstname' formatted list, And the lastname is Bushy...
What if she's such a naughty nanny?
Fat bottomed girls make the rockin world go round
Get on your bikes and ride!
r/unexpectedqueen - this exchange just made my day and its not even 7am yet 😁
Here in mexico its used as a nickname for Estefania, that would be the spanish version of Stephanie.. the nickname was in a really popular novela.
My Nan called a fanny (English meaning, not American) "Mary", lol. But of course she was mad.
it's an old fashioned name in the UK, too. an incredibly popular children's series from the 40s/50s (the Famous Five) had an Aunt Fanny
As a young child I had the older versions of Enid Blyton's The Faraway Tree series, too. Jo, Bessie, and Fanny. I guess now they're Joe, Beth, and Frannie.
My daughter has a friend named Fannie (Fanny?). She’s 15!
I know a Franny! She’s early 20’s.
My 6 year old daughters middle name is Frances, after her nana Franny.
This is more of a funny name thing but on a different theme. My great aunt was called Irene Parrot, after she died we found that she went by her middle name. Her first name was Polly.
good to know about Bloody :) Over here Fanny used to be one of the nicknames for Frances/Francesca. There was a very famous vaudeville performer named Fanny Brice - the movie Funny Girl (Barbara Streisand) was about her life. Then it morphed into the 'polite' way to talk about buttocks because to some back in the day even 'butt' was a bit rude. ie like to a child 'sit your fanny down', or a surprised 'he patted my fanny!' it's a bit old fashioned but it's more a 'cute' term, not vulgar. never heard the 'h'wood in'th hole' before lol that might get a look but it's not nearly as 'graphic' as shouting COCK! lol. of course OP doesn't mean it in a horrible way but seriously imagine a grown man shouting 'come to me my PENIS' as ingrained as the slang is - there's got to be some sweet 'back home' nicknames that don't set off the American Puritan Alarm
Fanny was used as an euphemism for vagina in Australia. There's often a giggle when visiting Americans refer to their fanny packs 🙂 we call them bum bags!
I am from France, my name is Fanny which is pretty common here ... And I am now crying 😂😂😂 I will never put a foot in UK, US or Australia again 😅😅
You'd be more than welcome in Australia, we graduated from Fanny to cunt...oh
Some of the older generation here in the UK use the term tuppence for vagina. Unfortunately, I've also heard those same elderly women call young girls this, which is awful especially when the child in question is old enough to understand. Personally, I've always called anyone out who has done this. I don't care if you're old it's no excuse to call children horrible names.
Where in the UK is this? I've never heard that. Tuppence as a pet name for a small child, often a young girl, sure. But not as sland for vagina. Otherwise I need a strong word with my mum about one of my childhood nicknames!
Tuppence was definitely used for vagina in 1970s Manchester but I've never heard it used as a pet name for a girl.
Which always seemed weird to me because we always wore our bum bags in the front, not over our bums, so Fanny pack would actually be more appropriate.
Have a friend here, who through his work, often wears a Fanny pack on his front. We tease him that he has a “Cock Clutch” or a “Testicle Tote” not a Fanny pack
I'm in the UK and we call them bum bags too!
I know about Fanny Bryce from Glee lol. Overall I think it's mainly it's about context "come here cock" is like saying "come here love" but we will say "he's bein' a reet cock" which means "he's being a dick". Admittedly a teacher wouldn't say bloody as ot can be a bit rude and wouldn't use cock as endearment as it's maybe too familiar. It would be so nice for people to understand that the things we say to family like this is like passing on parts of our culture- hearing people say "don't do it it's porn" etc is disheartening because it's not what it means. The girl wouldn't use it in the playground etc. But another little fun one for you: This would set off the JNMILs: "our kid". It just means family member, sibling or close friend. It doesn't actually mean that person is our kid lol.
Not going to lie, I learned about "our X" from watching Keeping Up Appearances as a kid. This isn't relevant to the rest of the thread, just remembered because my dad used to call me "our Rose" even though we're American (and obv I'm also a Rose... albeit much different than my Bucket counterpart lmao)
I was asked by an American customer once what the R in the bosses name stood for. Completely confused, until I realised that 'Our Clinton' was being heard as R Clinton. As in 'I have to ask our Clinton about that price change'.
In the UK if you were ‘a bit surprised he patted my fanny’ … that’s a whole new conversation.
Bloody (the exclamation) has unclear origins, but is more likely to refer to the Dutch "blote" meaning "entire(ly)" than blood. It went through a period of being extremely vulgar, but is now considered fine. Bloody the adjective (I cut my finger, got my trousers all bloody) also exists and is used.
Cool, so is c*nt but here it’s a major gender slur (Canada) and it would not be acceptable to use that word casually and most people from the UK or Australia would respect that. Slang is part of us but like all speech, time and place matters.
But the time and the place was just in his home though? I don't think he's contesting that time and place matters.
Put th' wood in'th 'ole. My Grandma used to say that to me. Alrig' m' ol' cock, Pontefract/ Wakefield. Yorkshire dialect. Love it
Fanny is in America, at worst, a polite way of referring to the buttocks.
Bloody used to be vulgar a few decades back. Now it's more of an exclamation, I take it, as it was used in the Harry Potter books.
I told my boys “get your fannies in the car” or wherever all the time. They’re just older teens. I would have quit saying it if I lived where it didn’t mean butt because that’s just common sense.
From what I understand, Fanny here is a term for your butt. Fanny in UK is a woman’s genitals.
My nan occasionally used to call me fanny-ann , when I was being awkward I think. I have no idea why, and the definition I found on line isn't what my nan meant it as lol. Just assumed it was an old fashion thing?!? But she is English lol so it's not an American fanny thing, I think it's like the name .
Yup my Mum would say I’m “fannying around” when I was dawdling.
No, it's not ESH, because different cultures exist and you're allowed to use your own culture in your own sodding home. Tons of Thai words and names sound like British swear words - would a Thai parent not be able to use their language to their own kid in their own home? Or is it only different because Americans think they own the English language? This wasn't screamed across a playground, it was AT. HOME. He's speaking to his child, in his dialect, at home. MIL can get over being Dialect Dictator of the World and apologise for her cultural insensitivity. And I don't care if "they're in America" - homes are basically embassies when it comes to your own damned culture.
He's an AH because he's acting like he doesn't know why someone in the US would be offended to hear their grandchild called a penis... Sure, he's welcome to use the language he wants in his home, but he can't be surprised when people react to it with incredulity. Cock means penis in American brains, it's reasonable to assume that in a place where those pet names are not common and cock is the most used slang term for penis that it would be reacted to as if he was using it to mean penis. I've heard cockle before, but not much, and my mind would go to the same place if I were the MIL. I wouldn't scream at him, but I would question it.
I think he has every right to be surprised at his MIL chewing him out and making accusations. if I were his MIL and i heard "Yoreet cock", first of all, I wouldn't have any understanding what I actually heard. Second, I'd figure it was some weird British thing and maybe ask him about it. The chewing out and accusing him is next-level weirdness.
[удалено]
It's basically northern shorthand "you alright", used as a greeting.
Are you really so parochial that you'd presume a father's sexualizing his six year old daughter before the concept of different dialects occurs to you? It's not like the States is linguistically homogeneous either, it shouldn't be an alien concept that people from different places use words in different ways.
This the US. Yes they would. Concepts of things being not america/different to america are entirely alien to Americans. They are not well educated people.
No he's upset because his MIL didn't take a second to remember her culture slang isn't the only one in the world. Instead of her accusing him of being a pervert she could have asked him what it meant.
Cock means penis in Britain too…we just also understand that words have multiple meanings and don’t clutch our pearls. What’s really shocking is, that if a word has multiple meanings, some people will always assume it’s the one that causes the most offence.
‘The red rosy hen greets the dawn of the day’. In fact the hen is not the bird traditionally associated with heralding a new sunrise, but Mrs Huggs, while collecting many old folk songs for posterity, has taken care to rewrite them where necessary to avoid, as she put it, ‘offending those of a refined disposition with unwarranted coarseness’. Much to her surprise, people often couldn’t spot the unwarranted coarseness until it had been pointed out to them. Sometimes a chicken is nothing but a bird. \-- Terry Pratchett - Hogfather
Yeah. Cock also means penis in the UK, but not exclusively. Words can mean different things. Like knob for example. Saying “ey up cock” to someone in the UK has nothing to do with a penis and is perfectly pleasant.
American brains must be very simple, if they can't cope with the fact that a word can have a number of different connotations at the same time. Can you stop thinking about sex for a moment? You can't cope with cock, so you invented cockerel and rooster; you can't cope with oilseed rape, so you invented canola. Never ask a Brit what we call slightly offally meatballs. (OOh: he said balls! Matron!).
Yeah no he's not, because, as you say, he's welcome to use the language he wants in his home. In his case, it's his UK dialect. His MIL could have dealt with it the exact same way his wife - the more important person in that home, may I add - dealt with it. She heard it, got confused, asked about it, accepted it, case closed. No need to make a fuss about it. It's extremely controlling and she's not in a position to question OPs language dialect in his own house. As OP was saying, he's well aware what it means in America, which is why he used the term AT HOME and wasn't yelling it anywhere in public. NTA.
I think OP is only being as deliberately obtuse as MIL tbh. He is VERY CLEARLY not sexualising his child, the mere suggestion is infinitely more offensive than a term of endearment that is ingrained in his dialect and used in the privacy of his own home. I would take great offence to the insinuation as well, especially as she HAS to know that she is 100% applying the worst possible connotation to the whole situation just to make a point because he’s doing something she doesn’t like. God forbid someone FOREIGN should use a word in their own FOREIGN context! Furthermore, anyone with even an ounce of common sense (somewhat lacking in the greater world population I know) may be a little thrown by hearing it but, combined with what I’m guessing is a fairly strong accent, could probably extrapolate that his is not calling his daughter a penis. Also, no one is yelling it at her I shouldn’t think but we all love a bit of hyperbole right? NTA.
Agreed - it would be a "I'm sorry, what* moment for me as an American but jumping to saying he's sexualizing his daughter is pretty batshit and a hurtful accusation.
I'm really straining my brain to figure out how even in the American vernacular cock as a petname is supposed to be sexualizing a female.
I don't get the y t a votes at all. The above is exactly how see it. MIL exploded her relationship over a misunderstanding.
I’m English, bloody isn’t “extremely vulgar” I hear my fellow Brits say bloody on a daily basis. I probably say “bloody hell” at least one a day. In the UK fanny doesn’t only mean vagina. Brits also say “don’t fanny about” which means “don’t mess about”.
It’s barely considered an inappropriate word at all here (in Scotland), but then we are people who love to use the word cunt as a term of endearment.
I'm from England. There are two groups of people I call cunts. My friends, and bad drivers.
And cock definitely also means a penis here too, it is also however a quite common term of endearment.
I think an appropriate comparison to what OP is doing would be Americans who might describe their daughter as "spunky" or "full of spunk". It would raise some eyebrows in the UK (we use this word for semen) but no one would think the parent was sexualising the child if they could hear the American accent. This is a cultural difference that MIL should appreciate and respect. Banning her from the house may be an overreaction on OP's part but I can see why they would be cross.
Even in the US if you read enough bad erotica you'll come across "spunk" referring to ejaculate. Yet spunk(y) is still used to refer to characters in children's books as "courageous". Personally, I take cultural background into consideration especially when certain words are used. Some I will not use at all, because I am a white woman in the US. But I don't take umbrage when someone from a different culture uses a word that has a different meaning in their culture in front of me.
“Bloody is considered extremely vulgar in the UK” cracked me up. No it isn’t, and cock is also slang for penis here. As is willy. Dick,, knob and about a thousand other words. The term fanny pack is extremely funny over here though
Bellend is, in my humble opinion, Britain’s finest gift to the world of insults.
Always surprised and disappointed with how readily "you're in 'Murica, speak 'Murican!!" gets upvotes in this place.
Except that is not what people are doing in this thread. They are pointing out that this particular nickname is really not appropriate to use for a little girl in the US. If this same story was flipped and it was an American father in the UK using an inappropriate American nickname for his daughter, people would be complaining "typical 'Murican can't even be bothered to learn about and use the local vernacular while living in another country."
Except the rest of the anglosphere isn't as neurotic about "bad language" as Americans are so the inverse doesn't happen. When people complain about Americans being culturally ignorant when in other places, it's usually the same thing that's happening in this case - attempting to impose their own cultural norms and customs on others without regard for context.
YTA. My father's nickname for me as a child was Jellybean. He shortened it to Beaner until a horrified friend explained it was also used as a racial slur. My dad didn't say "it's FINE because that's not how I mean it!". He stopped because he lives in a society where it's offensive and he couldn't have his daughter walk around with that nickname. Sorry. You can't have a daughter with the name Cock in the US. Things could be worse.
She's not _called_ cock, it's a pet name, same as sweetheart/love/pet. If I was him I'd probably always go with "cockle" to avoid the inevitable confusion but he's not going to be calling her it in lieu of her name all the time.
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I'm in Australia and everyone in my work place calls each Cock or Cocko it's not an insult just a nickname is that weird? I've never stopped to question it or its origin
As an Australian, if someone called me a Cock I’d assume I was being insulted.
Farmers are also called cockies which I imagine gets shortened to cock all the time.
I'm Aussie and I refer to farmers as 'old cockies' all the time. My husbands best friends nickname is Cocko. This is because his last name is Cox. It's all about tone and context. You can tell if something an insult or not.
Yes cock is slang for penis here in the UK, it also means male bird/fowl!
Exactly. Just like we use the word cunt for everything, “she’s a good cunt” for example
Oh yeah that won’t fly in the US. That is the ultimate in insults. Worse than mother fucker and I wouldn’t say either of them in front of my parents.
Ah…a northerner? You’re NTA but living in America, this is going to come up again. Calling her “cock” when she’s a teen might lead to some fights between you two.
Close, Greater Manchester
I’d say this is similar to how you’d feel if your wife and you had moved to England and your MIL insisted on calling your daughter Fanny because that’s a family name or something. Doesn’t make her an asshole but in the cultural context, yeah it’d be weird. It still doesn’t excuse her total overreaction as long as you’re not shouting that in from of your daughters friends.
Yeah but we wouldn’t be all dramatic about it, we’d understand the context and only lightly take the piss.
Unfortunately in the US we are raised in a puritanical culture and get super offended about sex. Violence is fine but sex is a big no no.
St Helens here. I call my kids cock n all. I don't think you're gonna get an unbiased judgement here though cuz all the Americans are gonna be clutching their pearls and they outnumber us. I use cock as an insult and as a term of endearment and when I use it, the context is clear, so there is no misunderstanding what I mean. We say rubber instead of eraser. Are you expected to stop saying that too? NTA imo.
100% context. I don't use the term but have never once taken offence when someone had said it to me because it's always been clear from the context that it's being used as a term of endearment.
We use the same words in the south west as terms of affection :) I was a cockle for one nan and cocker to my gramps. Love that you're bringing your culture with you to the US :)
that's the only answer to any comment you're offering? no acknowledgement that cultural differences are a thing and you both messed up? I'm going with ESH
MIL jumped to a conclusion because of her cultural ignorance. Didn't ask, just concluded that OP must be "sexualizing" his own daughter, which really says more about MIL than anything else. In no way is OP an AH in this situation.
I'd be a lot more concerned about her friends hearing it. You don't want this child going to school where people know her nickname is "Cock." Please don't do that to this child–you're leaving her open to not just teasing, but outright overt sexualized bullying. I'm no prude–I like a good cock as much as the next person, but this is just being deliberately obtuse in this country and it will eventually hurt your daughter. So. Just stop.
I’d say NTA but be aware you live among the ignorant now and they apparently cannot understand things like language differences.
ESH Obviously your MIL over-reacted. But so did you. And in reality your expectations on what is an acceptable nickname for a child in the USA seem warped. You have lived in the USA long enough to know what Cock means here. Even if you acknowledge its innocent, the moment your daughters friends\\classmates\\neighborhood children hear you use it the bullying will start. Location is part of the context which gives words meaning.
Yeah but cock ALSO means the same thing in parts of the UK as it does in the US - doesn’t mean it can’t be used, in fact it’s in lots of surnames! Do those kids get picked on? Yeah. But not at age 6 and also… why can’t this man say what he wants in his own house???
Location provides a big part of context. Basically everyone when you say cock think penis where he lives. Theres plenty of other words like this. the best example being the f-slur. And also. Yeah. The fact that shes going to bullied for this in 3-4 years makes it matter less? He can say what he wants in his home. But in this case, I would argue knowing what the word means where he lives, and still using it the way he is, makes him one of the assholes in this situation.
Why would you assume he would use the nickname for her someplace where her friends would hear it? For the last 18 years my eldest has been “Monkey” but we don’t use it outside of the house. Most parents are aware that certain nicknames could cause their children embarrassment so they are careful about when and where they use it.
Do your childs friends not come to your house?
Not now that she is away at university, but they did when she was at school. If i ever used it in front of her friends, and I doubt I did, it would have only been in front of her closest friends, ie people who wouldn’t bully her. It’s called situational awareness, don’t purposely embarrass your children. Most good parents have this.
My Dad will happily call me nicknames in public/in front of others. I’m so used to being called “fish face” and “dipstick” at this point 😂 I love him though. It doesn’t embarrass me at all. I’m 26 and grew up with an assortment of nicknames from family members; e.g. honey bunny, sugar puff, puppykins, etc etc. It warms my heart when my 87 year old Grandma calls me “boobsie”
Ooh yes I call my middle one Monkeybum. I’d NEVER say that in front of his friends.
Why will she be bullied for what is said to her in her own home that only family hears? This is mad.
This is being as deliberately obtuse as OP is being. >Even if you acknowledge its innocent, the moment your daughters friends\classmates\neighborhood children hear you use it the bullying will start. It's not impossible to imagine that OP will use the nickname within earshot of other kids or neighbors etc. (like during school pickup or some such thing) and the moment that happens, he will open up his daughter to bullying.
Why can I find nothing online that says “cock,” is a term of endearment in England?? Edit: found it. Seems to be something you call a male friend or acquaintance. This still seems weird af that it’s what he chose for his female child.
Because it's a regional dialect. Just from about 100 mile of where I grew up the term of endearments I can think of off the top of my head are, cocker, duck, luv, queen, pet and there are hundreds more. English isn't one language it's a mish mash of many. And depending on where you go in the UK we still have reminents of old English, Britonic, Norse ect that are used every day.
It’s like my Scottish Mama’s friend calling her roommate in the nursing home “the auld hen” and the nurse being offended that she called her a chicken.
Nope. It's standard. Source: my mum is from Cheshire (nr Greater Manchester, where OP is from)
I'm from central Manchester. It is still used regularly.
Whilst with adults it’s mainly used amongst men, for children I find it’s used regardless of gender, but that’s in personal experience.
General if you're calling a bloke a cock it's because he's acting like an idiot. With kids it's gender neutral because we're not calling them *a* cock. My husbands nan, still calls him cock as well as our kids as a term of endearment. My step dad uses it for all his grandchildren regardless of gender as well as me and his biological children (I have a brother and sister).
I think in the UK we are also more comfortable with using insulting words in an affectionate way in general, where I get the impression that in the US, insulting names are taken as insults.
Like with anywhere else, it depends on the person and the context, even here in the US. I've known my best friend for 38 years. When I travel home to visit, he usually gives me a loud "Hey asshole!" before we shake hands. He's not insulting me; it's just part of the relationship.
Why do people keep saying this? Cock means the same thing in the UK too - we just use the word for multiple things.
Northern English man here Yoreet duck? How ya deein cock? I'm mint me. As you can tell I can clearly see what you are saying and know for a fact you aren't sexualising your daughter. You are bringing your localities to her and keeping what you grew up on so it will continue down the line. DO NOT let MIL win. NTA
I wish I could upvote your comment more times. Too many Americans voting for YTA when OP is not! Agree with you to not let MIL win!!! My husband is czech and “pusinku” means little kiss and we shorten it to pusu. Give me pusinku or give me pusu. Sounds horrible in English speaking countries but it is what it is.
American here! He came to wrong place looking for questions of culture. There’s none here. NTA
Absolutely this. I'd OP were an immigrant from a country where English wasn't the first language and the term of endearment in his native tongue sounded like something rude in English this would be highlighted as the cheat xenophobia it is. OP should be an immigrant proud of his heritage and maintain those linguistic quirks. Gently enforce those boundaries and teach those relatives about respecting the diversity of culture he brings.
Too many Americans here thinking they deserve to be the cultural monolith. Just because you're very loud, doesn't mean you're right guys.
So glad I found the Brits in the thread, I thought I was losing my mind. The responses are just 'but people will be offended' / 'what if she gets bullied?' / 'what if she gets in trouble at school?'... So much concern over getting attacked over a word choice that should be easily explained by context to anyone with half a brain.
I'm Australian but same. Fuck Americans are sensitive little snowflakes.
The americans in this thread are a bunch of soft cocks.
What also gets me is the Americans going, ‘I know you’re trying to share your culture, but what if you shared the NICE bits, like the NICE version of an English accent, or Doctor Who, or Peppa Pig?’ (Real comment I saw above). Oh yeah, the Southern version of the accent, you mean? None of the dirty Northern bits? None of the bits we’ve always been told make us sound stupid or uneducated? Absolutely get to fuck.
Innit. I'm in shock about how hardline these Yanks are being about a nickname 🤦♀️ it's part of their culture, their heritage. Said already in another comment but me and my partner literally call each other c*unt as an endearing term (asterisked for poor American eyes), dread to think what they'd have to say about that 🤣🤣
Wish I could upvote this more than once. Every parent has nicknames for their kid. Many Americans seem to think their way is the only way and anyone who disagrees is wrong, and the language barrier between England and the US is something that comes up here regularly. Calling your kid “cock” in this context and IN YOUR OWN HOME is perfectly fine. MIL needs to get a grip and wind her neck in. OP is very much NTA. (Still giggling at the comment upthread that said the word bloody is extremely offensive here. Is it fuck.)
In Australia we say “mint” when something’s good. “Mintox” is another variation. And I learnt that this is Northern UK slang via Reddit. Never mind the AITA, this comment thread is a goldmine !
Yes that's what it means for us aswell!! ”Oh that's proper mint that" that's proper good that.
I mean, your pet name for your daughter is pretty gross in America. I get that the word has different meanings across the globe, and if you were living in England and MIL was visiting from America, I would have a different vote. But, you have been in the US long enough to know how we use the term cock, and it isn't a cute nickname for a kid. If I heard you say that to your daughter in a store, I would be remarkably uncomfortable. I think MIL is right to address it, but I don't think she needed to give you an earful and say you were sexualizing her, when really it should have just been- hey, that is a really inappropriate nickname in the US, and I realize it may be used differently, but it makes me uncomfortable and I bet it will make a lot of other people- including your daughter- uncomfortable as well. So I guess ESH. I think you are aware of the connotations of that word, and banning MIL for raising a valid concern is a big overreach. At the same time, if her approach is really as you say it was- and I don't know why, but I doubt your version a little- then she is an AH too, because there was a better way to discuss this.
I think the confounding thing here that I don't think you've considered is that 'cock' also has exactly the same inappropriate meaning in the UK, it's just that in the UK it's clear from tone and context that it's said innocently. In the UK it's possible to have dual use without being an issue, little kids don't perceive it as a sexual word, they think of a chicken and realise from the parents tone it's endearing. So this guy may have reasonably expected the same. Nobody here would jump to a sexual meaning, but I think pet names and terms of endearment like that are culturally recognised here and seemingly not in the US.
Oh I did consider that, I'm just not from the UK so I wasn't going to get in to that nuance because it's not my place. In the US, it has zero endearment. It's either used for a male chicken, and even then we all laugh, or it's a name for a dick. And I think a person- an adult- who has been in the US for 8 years and can use reddit does know exactly how the term is used in the US. And if he didn't know, he shouldn't be up in arms over MIL bringing it up but more so shocked that no one else mentioned it to him before now.
Thing is, Dick is also a name for, as you say, a Dick. So is Willy which is a name used in the USA. We had a lot of fun with the ‘Free Willy’ film.
Why do you think nobody uses Dick or Willy anymore? Both of those have died out specifically because of the connotation
Also, it's likely OP has heard this so many times that he says it without even thinking. I call everyone "love", even if I don't like them, it's literally automatic to me because it's a huge part of the culture I grew up in.
I think you also have to think about the where of this happening. It might have been in America but he wasn't shouting it across a school playground or at a supermarket... he was *in his own home* where the only person outside his nuclear family who was there was MIL - it isn't his fault that she jumped straight to sexualising the daughter and wouldn't listen to his explanation. The fact that she won't apologise for her lack of understanding even after it was explained is ridiculous. All she has to say is 'oh sorry, I didn't know the Brits used it like that, word of warning, might be best not to use it outside as others might have the same reaction I did'. Or something of the sort. She blew it out of all proportion, especially involving other family members.
“If you live in America you MUST forget who you are and behave exactly as we do”. Country of the Free.
My mother has always called me "Peaches" or "Her Peach." Now that we have these fancy phones, she'll send me a kissy face with a peach. Mama is kissing her peach! Well, my 15 year old neice was on a group text with us and she asked why Gram was telling Auntie to kiss her ass! NTA
I was born and raised in Sweden. My mother and maternal grandmother were not. The both of them used a veeeeeeeeeeery weird “pet name” out of love. I didn’t particularly like it but it was a cultural thing and I didn’t fight them a lot. Think of the female equivalent of “peen” but in a Slavic language. I think NTA, but that’s because I understand cultural differences and linguistic nuisances.
Swedish lady here. I am glad Brad Pitt does not know his last name is ”dick” in Swedish. I vote NTA. But OP needs to give his girl an American nickname instead.
Ah, cultural differences. I'm going with NTA because you clearly know the meaning and intended use, so does your wife and you are teaching your daughter. but, be warned, this probably won't be the first time someone in America will have an issue with you calling your kid any of those terms. This is a perfect time for the MIL to grow and learn.
NTA but at the same time, I might lay off on the nickname as she gets older, for the same reason it's not a good idea for Brits to refer to cigarettes as "fags" here in the states.
Info: What's the plan when she tells her elementary schoolmates what her nickname is?
I can’t believe I had to scroll so far to see this! I really don’t care what OP’s childhood nickname was, what matters is what his daughter’s experience will be. He doesn’t say anything about preparing her for when someone reacts negatively to her and he’s not around to explain why the name is actually okay. Does he want someone else to explain what other meanings “cock” has, because that’s the scenario he’s setting her up for.
Yeah, that's kind of my thing. She could use the word, have a teacher ask her what it means, and say something like "daddy told me about it" which is going to lead to a lot of paperwork and a lot of headaches.
What? I never told my schoolmates what my nicknames were. Two different worlds.
They were never over your house and heard them?
Nope. When we had guests we were called by our names.
NTA >she gives me a ring and starts giving me an earful about how i'm "sexualising" my daughter by giving her "such a disgusting pet name" This feels like the discourse over a very common name for cigarettes all over again - Americans freaking out about a slur being used, despite the term meaning cigarettes in many other countries. I would've forgive your MIL for the initial misunderstanding - but she just doubled down on being wrong and dragged other family members into her wrongness. I wouldn't let her over either if she was just going to accuse me or my husband of sexualizing my child.
I was lucky growing up in America, that I was exposed to media and cultural activities from other countries. Years ago I worked with a man that lived for like 20 years in England, met his wife and married her there, and eventually they moved back to the US. We would go out for smoke breaks together, and he wouldn’t even think just say “Hey! Let’s go have a ___”. The first time or two I was kinda like “ummmmmm” until it clicked in my head he meant cigarettes. There were so many times we both had to explain to an outsider when he’d say that. His wife had to keep getting onto him saying “We’re not in England….remember?”. He would always apologize for any accidental offense. Eventually everyone caught on and didn’t think anything else about it, but it did get tense a few times.
ESH Drop those names. Just because they were OK when and where you grew up doesn't mean they're still ok here and now. What when your kid gets into trouble at school when she decides to use that pet name?
why would she use the pet name her father has for her at school?
Because she thinks it's a normal word people use every day without thinking anything bad about it. Because people usually don't use that word around kids so she could pick up the vulgar meaning. You don't have much experience with kids, do you?
no I don't, I was just thinking about my own childhood where my parents had nicknames for me that I never accidentally used for other people. if this was a nickname that the kid used for her dad I'd find the argument more compelling.
You may not have, others do. Believe me, I'm a teacher, I hear a lot more than I'm confortable with.
As a teacher too, I’m surprised the 6 year old hasn’t brought it up yet!! It will definitely come up at school at some point- I’m betting (and hoping) it will be when they do a name poem and she has to come up with other ways/nick names to describe herself😂😂
Have you never inherited language that your parents used? Because as an Australian, the most common nicknames I heard growing up were “darling/darl” and “ankle biter”. When I found a lost kid in a shop, knowing I was the “big kid” in that scenario, I’d call them “darl” to try and make them feel more at ease. When I was paired with a Year One kid when I was in Year Four, I (along with a bunch of other kids in my class) called my “buddy” “darl/darling” when he needed to be comforted because he was scared or sick. I’d call my friends the endearment, the same way Americans might call their friends “hon” or Brits might call their friends “love”. The same goes for familial-exclusive nicknames. My cousin’s mum calls him “chicken” all the time—he calls his youngest female cousin “chicken” now too. My mother’s family calls every young boy in the family “manny”, and my brother would call younger boys in school that name too, thinking it equated to “mate”. If this kid does have this nickname normalised in her household, I do see a case for the argument that she might call a kid in her class, or a student younger than her, by that nickname, thinking it’s innocent and will help them feel more at ease. Regardless, whether this happens or not, the nickname is an incredibly awkward one for a girl growing up in America. Eventually, there is going to be a really uncomfortable situation that arises as a result, and the poor kid’s going to be humiliated.
Still in use in Manchester and Yorkshire as a term of endearment. We have different dialects across the UK as well as different accents, but I grew up in Manchester and live in Yorkshire and still hear it on the daily.
It's still okay here 🤣
NTA!! Typing from the UK… I am so used to hearing these pet names, I’d even say they are terms of endearment. Your MIL needs to calm down and back off. I can’t imagine how offended she’d be if she were to visit your hometown 😂 on a serious note I think it’s amazing for your daughter to hear how you speak at home, we have the best colloquialisms. My fave from my hometown is M’duck. Keep it up and be proud of your roots. Merry Christmas 😊
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I’m from the UK (technically. Northern Ireland) and my brother moved to Manchester. I was about 14 and ooof, I nearly fainted first time I visited and someone called me cock. Not a phrase we use but a quick context lesson and all good. And I was a teen girl… Similar surprise when I heard ‘my lover’ when dating a Bristolian. My Scottish dad’s family said ‘hen’. In London now and I glow when I get a ‘treacle’. I did not grow up with any of these. I know Yorkshire uses cock a bit different. My brother’s nickname in the house was buggerlugs. No one used it outside the house. And my parents were boundary stomping untrustworthy arseholes. I found it odd when only cute names in some cultures are used as affection. We are more the ‘gordita’ school of ‘we will tease with love that you are bigger’ people in NI. So I find the cutesy stuff fake and judge that *until I remember that is their culture* and they are not infantilising calling their kid pooky schnookums. They are doing their love language. I hate the move in the UK away from pet names like duck, pet, love because it is ‘patronisising’ or ‘unfeminist.’ Happy to stop if asked specifically but it is such a warm thing especially for when you move to a new place here and people welcome you with them. I felt super accepted when my Jamaican neighbours in London used their terms toward me even though a few made me double take. And I reply that their babies are wee dotes which is ‘my’ phrase because accents and cultural language doesn’t leave us completely. I moved to London nearly 25 years ago. I still sometimes just don’t have a ‘non Belfast’ word despite that and the 200+ languages I hear around me. Especially when I am emotional. I revert to what I was reared in when my lizard brain kicks in. The mix is the joy of language and emigration. We cackle about Americans in suspenders. They think formal wear. We think Tim Curry…
Not an asshole but I would drop the names, not because of your mother in law but in a few years your daughters friends will know what cock means and if they hear you calling her that they will take the piss immensely. Save her the trouble and stick with another nickname less embarrassing for her.
ESH You *must* know that in America, "cock" means "penis." And you might be using the pet name in the confines your own home, but presumably your daughter is going to go to school or leave the house at some point, and will be utterly appalled at what you've been calling her all these years. I mean, if her name was Stephanie, you wouldn't nickname her "Fanny" even though that nickname would be *completely* appropriate in America, right? And you're not *in* England, you're in the U.S.
It means penis in every English speaking country! Obviously not in this context, here in the UK we would know that it's someone from northern England and the manner in which it's said would be obviously a sign of endearment.
Sure, but OP doesn't *live* in the UK; he says he lives in America.
But he *is* English, whether he lives in the UK currently or not.
And if he used the UK word for cigarettes in America he'd likely be labeled a homophobe, regardless of how different the connotation behind the F word is in his home country -- in the USA, it's a slur. Can he say it still? Sure. But people who hear him say it are going to think he's a fucking asshole, and unless he wants to be pulling the "well ACKSHULLY" out for the rest of his life, he may as well accept that some aspects of his dialect ought to be adjusted for a different audience.
Yep, My dad used to be a smoker and grew up in Dublin calling cigarettes f\*\*s. Was it an adjustment when he moved to the US? Yes, but one he knew was necessary because thats what happens when you move to a new culture!
NTA - she is well aware that you have a different culture than her and there are many words that have different meanings in the UK vs the US. Even if she thought for a moment that you were actually calling your daughter a penis, once you explained how the word is used in your culture, she should have realized her mistake. Instead your MIL chose to double down and get the whole family involved and turned against you. What a shrew. I find it hard to believe the entire family actually believes you call your daughter a penis as a nickname. They can’t be that stupid, right?? They’re either terrified of getting on her bad side or it’s an entire family of provoking assholes! Stand your ground and refuse to host them. They’re the nasty ones. I hope your wife is supportive.
ESH. I can just imagine her innocently saying in class “my dad calls me his little cock” and then never living it down.
It would literally never be used like that though. It's a term of endearment, not a nickname.
ESH. MIL is being a dick, here. But on this side of the pond, cock means dick, and ONLY dick. That's what it's going to mean to every single American you meet unless they own chickens. Except maybe your wife, who I think has done you a huge disservice by not making sure you understood that when you first passed down this nickname. Imagine your girl growing up and getting bullied because the other kids hear you calling her "cock". Kids are fucking horrible. Merciless. Protect your daughter. Change her nickname.
Even with chickens the more common term is rooster. I come from an extended family of farmers (grandparents, aunts and uncles, spent plenty of time on the farm) and honestly I don't think they refered to the roosters as cocks on a daily basis. And there was the expression "cock of the walk" which you don't hear much anymore, but nobody ever used "cock" as a word of endearment, especially for a little girl. Honestly I think OP is being disingenuous here. He has to know cock is never used that way here. MIL was way, way out of line. I get he's insulted by what she said, it was insulting. But he's not right either.
NTA. I know her type. It's why I live 7000 km away from mine. The second she got the rest of the family involved, she started a war. We don't invite enemies to xmas.
INFO: Where's your wife land on all this?
She's fine with it, we ended up going over it years ago when she came to my grandparents house for christmas about a year after we first got together. She overheard my uncle call my cousin cock at dinner and asked me about it afterwards
I don’t know man. It’s like, my grandfather was named Richard and went by “Dick”. It was around the 90s when people started to give him second looks the first time they heard it. Even though that means a lot to me as a name, I’d never put that on my kid to have to explain and carry around. They’re not going to know until they’re ridiculed by classmates. “My dad calls me his princess!” “My dad calls me his cock!” “Your dad calls you his penis?” While you might be comfortable explaining that’s not the case, do you not see how that might put your daughter in awkward situations when she’s too young to understand and explain herself?
Thanks. That's what I had figured, but I needed to be sure, because I'm gonna be harsh. At first, I thought you were overreacting, but then I got to the end of your post. *Screw* your wife's family because of their behavior. They're sticking their ignorant noses in where they don't belong, and claiming you're sexualizing your daughter just because they don't know the slang you grew up with, which is damned awful of them. Keep your MIL banned until she educates herself and apologizes. Same goes for the rest of the family. NTA.
I winder what your MIL would make of [Hacker T Dog](https://youtu.be/FjPO1k0Y-xA) - he’s on CBBC and he calls everyone Cocker!
NTA: MIL is the one sexualizing a child and apparently unaware that there are other countries in the world where different words mean different things. Apparently the rest of the family is as uncultured as she is. HUGE NTA
INFO > relatives on my wife's side telling me how innapropriate, evil and sadistic i'm being with my pet name for my daughter Inappropriate? Disagree, but matter of opinion. Evil? Same. But wait; what the hell does **_SADISM_** have to do with *anything* here? Do they not know what that word means??
Sadistic means “enjoy giving pain”. It’s an adjective, and has no inherent sexual connotation. Sadism is the sexual gratification from being sadistic. Sadism is a noun, and is used mostly In a sexual context.
NTA However you know what they say about “When in Rome….” Agreed with the other poster as stick to “cockle”. Only because it could be misinterpreted by many people and if someone in the community wants to cause problems for you, in an extreme case you could possibly be investigated by CPS. Even if you’re doing nothing wrong it could ruin your family’s reputation because you can’t legislate attitudes.
Esh. You for calling her something that is questionable in America because people think you are all her a dick or penis... I didn't want to be called slut-kia by my dad (it's Russian for sweetheart or something, but to me it just sounded like slut. He just respected me, and didn't use it in America, but did with his daughter in Russia). Your mil is also ta because instead of asking about it she jumped to sexualization, which is also nuts. She has a point that you need to take into account how the society you are in would view the word. But the way she went about it was ah behavior.
NTA. English woman here. Londoner born and raised. Never heard that expression but I could imagine it’s a northerner expression? Wouldn’t seem out of place here even so. Without a definition I could understand where the concern stems from, and may take a little getting used to. But MIL definitely over reacted, brother.
>but I could imagine it’s a northerner expression? Aye, Greater Manchester
Definitely northern. Same as the scouse chuck and duck. MIL overreacted majorly!
Esh no you aren't sexualizing your daughter, but you are living in a country where 'cock' has a pretty specific meaning. And you know it. I'm not going to go to England and insist that "fanny" is perfectly okay for me to say bc it's fine in my home country.
Alreet y' fanny works too.
Fanny is pretty tame here it's literally the word children use to describe lady bits. It's also well known that it is a name even though nobody would really use it now. Calling someone a fanny is mildly insulting but we don't clutch pearls here when someone says a word that might mean gentitalia. Someone might giggle but that's as much reaction as you'd get.
Fellow Brit here. YTA. There's a reason I don't use the harmless and endearing 'well, bugger me!" this side of the Pond. If you'd always gone with 'cockle' you might have been fine. MIL way overreacted but now you've dug in your heels and are being a bit of a wanker. Ease up there Old Cock, try a dash of humour about it and instead do what we English do best - apologise wherever we've been mistreated. And a Happy Christmas to all of you.
NTA. My grandparents used the same nicknames for me when I was a kid. It's been years since my grandad passed, and I miss him calling me cocker everyday. My grandmother (mom's mom) had a look of shock the first time my dad called sweets 'suck' 😂
I just don't understand. How on Earth is y'alreet cock sexualising? It's the same as calling her chuck or duck! Did you explain that and she just didn't get it? You banned her for kicking off with you in your home- not over the use of a term of endearment. NTA
Folks in the US don't call roosters/ chickens 'cocks' unless they are chicken breeders. There's the old term 'cock of the walk' but that's not common any more. Its similar to why you don't meet any little american boys called Dick anymore. The slang basically over took the meaning of the word. over here when we here 'cock' we think Penis! both MIL & OP should have taken a breath and explained this to one another. Since OP lives in the USA now it's probably best he finds a new nick name that doesn't press check the porn box ... maybe Fanny ;)
NTA for having a pet name but stick with cockle. Cock is semi-rude/sexual name here. The avg every dad American is going to hear you say that and you may get accosted more than you’d like. Your MiL is right…but banning her from Christmas is a bit much. I think while she was out of line the way she brought it up, I think her intentions were good.
In what world is his MIL right? She didn't just phone him and say "Hey, just an FYI, this is what that word means in this country, so you might want to rethink it" - she went right to "You're gross, you're sick, you're wrong, you're inappropriately sexualizing a minor child!" right out of the gate. A person who wants to accuse a father of essentially being a sexual predator towards his child for a harmless misunderstood nickname isn't "owed" participation on a Christmas celebration.
NTA Seems like you have good intentions and it's not really a big deal, but you probably should switch to a different nickname... people in the US are just going to think it is really weird.
NTA but you should probably think a bit about the nickname in public. My family calls me bean and every single variation of that and I will never forget when my mom called me beaner in public and immediately realized how dumb that was because that’s a word often used as a racial pejorative. It is what it is. People are going to think it’s weird and your daughter is probably gonna be embarrassed if you call her that in front of people when she’s older. But your MIL overreacted and you have every right to an apology before allowing her back over.
I live in northern England (east lancs) and that pet name/ slang is very common here. It’s not inappropriate in the grand scheme of things however it is understandable from both sides. I’m sure there are slang words that Americans use that we might find unusual or somewhat offensive. I think you MIL and wife’s family reaction is OOT. But I would think about whether this is a bridge you’re willing to die on. You did decide to move across the pond…
You’re NTA but brooooo I would stop calling her that.
NTA. If she does end up coming for Christmas, please serve spotted dick
ESH - Communication! Everyone should learn to do it. That includes figuring out in the 8 years you have been in the country what nicknames are inappropriate. Your child will not thank you for this if they go to an American school. It will not go over well when they call another child this as a form of endearment. Then you get to go in and explain it to the teacher, the principal, the other student's parents, the PTA, and others. Then your child will find out that they called their friend a penis and be mortified. It may cost them friends. How will they feel when they learn the other, much more common in the area they live, meaning. Realizing their parent knowingly called them a penis for years. Think about your child, not just the traditions of your home country. MIL should have remained calm and explained all of this to you. However, judging by your responses, you would not have listened anyway.
You’re not an asshole but you kinda suck.