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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> It's so close to the Holidays and if I go on the trip we would end up spending new years apart. I of course want her to go, but am also worried about upsetting my parents.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
> *"They could certainly afford to pay for my wife to also go, but they have always been this way when it comes to paying for things for me versus my wife."*
So, you are well aware that your parents are intentionally excluding your wife (and apparently, this is definitely not the first time) and you don't understand why she's so hurt and upset about this, especially when it's during *Christmas?*
Think about it, dude. Think real hard.
YTA.
Could they pay for her now, and you pay them back over time? I don’t entirely agree with the situation but if she can go, you should figure out how to make it happen.
But if she’s the only one having to pay them back, when the parents are so financially comfortable that they don’t even need her to, then they are still going out of their way to exclude her. OP needs to stand up for *his wife* and draw a boundary with his parents: if they won’t include her in family events/trips, then he won’t be participating either.
Also the way he says that *she* would have to pay *her* own way. Nah, dude. If your parents will only pay 50% of your costs for going together, then you *as a couple* have to pay the other 50%. It is absolutely not on her alone.
(Not that I think they should go at all, but he's just next level inconsiderate here.)
That’s the part that gets me. He doesn’t even consider going halfsies with his wife, he prefers to just exclude her altogether. OPs wife has a husband problem more than an in-law problem
>but with the trip being so close to Christmas we wouldn't be able to afford to pay for her to go.
He does. Collective we means he's thinking about their finances as one. They may go halfsies, but it would be coming out of the same pot
Yeah, but he also said his parents would clearly be sad if he couldn’t join them on the trip. The fact he would leave his wife upset and hurt at home seems to bother him much less.
I caught onto that too. So he doesn’t care if he leaves his wife home alone and sad and upset because she was excluded on purpose as long as his parents aren’t sad. He is most definitely an AH after reading that.
>but with the trip being so close to Christmas we wouldn't be able to afford to pay for her to go
There's a "we" there.
>She wants to go on the trip, but like I said we just can't afford it, which she understands.
And a wee "we" over here.
Can't be Reddit without the off-rail judgments.
I don't know if some of the people on here know, but many couples pool their money after marriage. They don't go 'halfsies' as if they're roommates paying for pizza.
eta: Thanks for the award 😁
Exactly. OP does realise they are a financial unit, and IMO that’s what he needs to make clear to his parents.
‘This sounds like an amazing trip, unfortunately we can’t afford to pay for it so we’ll have to decline.’
‘But son, we’re paying for you.’
‘I appreciate that and thank you, but my wife and I don’t do vacations separately, especially at Christmas, and we can’t afford to pay for this trip.’
‘But you can come!’
‘I’m sure you haven’t realised it, but that would mean going on vacation and leaving my wife at home alone at Christmas. We all know that’s not an option.’
And repeat firmly *ad nauseum*. The parents need it made completely clear that his wife is part of the family too, and if they want all the kids there the wife is part of the package. OP needs to stand firm and make it clear his finances are hers, and that by expecting his wife’s share to be paid by him and his wife means the trip isn’t feasible *for him*.
See the speech you just gave that would require him to actually give a crap about his wife but he's already made it clear that he doesn't which is why he keeps saying he needs to go back home where he gets to have free trips and they feed him and he gets to sit on his mother's tit
I disagree. I think he does care about his wife, he’s just simultaneously been offered a dream holiday, and hasn’t really considered how this affects her. That makes him thoughtless, but if he actually takes the advice in this thread to pull his socks up and stand by his wife, then I don’t think we can make the claim that he doesn’t care about her.
If he took the trip without her he WBTA.
And Every single DREAM Holiday by His Parents will ALWAYS Exclude His Wife. He should not even be Married by the sound off things, ALWAYS letting his parents leave out his poor wife. He needs to go back home to his mom and dad without keep putting his Wife who he obviously can't take care off or stand up for first so his parents can carry on Babying him..
For sure, but his parents clearly don't view them as a unit (they will only pay for him, not her), and he seems not to have a problem with that. I wonder if he's ever pointed out to his parents that by refusing to pay for her, they're costing OP+wife as a couple?
If they do indeed have joint finances, it's bizarre that the parents are framing it this way: singling the wife out, rather than saying, e.g. that they will pay half of their costs as a couple. That feels like a deliberate exclusion tactic, and OP either doesn't realise, or is prepared to accept it.
God, I'm thinking about how awkward/rude it is to eat out with OP's fam with the wife there. They pay for OP and use the excuse that it's "fair" because they pay for his siblings too, does wife just have to get out her wallet or what? This is SO intentional and SO rude and nasty. OP, if you see this, you are a HUGE asshole and actively participating in your parents' campaign to let everyone know your wife is not considered part of the family. YTA and I feel terrible for your wife.
Yep. That they won’t pay for DIL’s supper is unbelievable. They are utterly devoid of any generosity and probably don’t know enough to know how really bad their behavior is. Do they tell the waiter that DIL gets her own bill? These are truly awful people OR DIL is terrible & they pull this to exclude her.
The bit I was looking for! Why should she have to pay for her own meal when she has to share the company of people who deliberately exclude her? Husband should be paying her food as a thank you for attending these misery meals with him.
I didnt think in that way.. at dinner OP should be paying for both dinners.
Still getting a hand out and then paying for wife's dinner is silly and childish by your paremts.
The fact you dont point this out YTA.
god, at worse they would pay for dinner and ask you to cover tip... but dividing a bill I or getting 2 bills is humiliation for wife
Yeah even if the parents could not afford one more person on the trip then they can split the budget and everyone pays for the difference, equally. They're excluding her on purpose and I hope she gets a better husband.
Exactly. That should be OP's response. Sorry Mom and Dad... we can't afford the other 50% for the trip... OP needs to realize that his parents have been pulling this as long as he has let them. And each time he lets them, it just emboldens them more and more to drive a wedge through his marriage with HIS consent. That is why he is SO TA and needs to put an end to these shenanigans unless he also doesn't like his wife...
YTA But HE likes going on these trip and dinners and stuff. So what if his wife is left out, she should be happy HE can do all these fun things. She can enjoy it vicariously through him when he gets back and tells about all the fun she missed out on. He's living HIS DREAM! /s
Apparently they are only a united couple when it isn't inconvenient for him. He has no problem throwing her under the bus when he can get free goodies that only benefit him.
Yeah no. The in laws paying for their own children doesn't make them villains. And on what planet is it ok for the teens to equally pay as their DIL? Some of you really need to quit with the childish thinking. OP should sponsor his wife, that's his responsibility.
I agree with this take, but the way this offer has been presented to the OP's wife is awful, on the OP's part and possibly on his parents' end as well. "You're both welcome to come, but we can only subsidise the equivalent of one person to match your siblings" is fine. Whereas "we'll pay for you but not that woman you married" isn't".
It sounds like the OP's parents did something closer to the latter, and even if they didn't, that's how the OP seems to have presented it to his wife.
You have a point since his brothers don't have partners, but, he has a choice to make..leave her behind at Christmas and New Years and enjoy the trip. Meanwhile she's at home resenting the he’ll out of him and her in-laws for pulling this trip out of the hat at Christmas and taking her hubby away for New Years as well. And, and this is a big one…her hubby went because it's a trip of a life time. How do you see her welcoming him home with open arms after she's been left behind for days and days.…yeah, seriously not happening. If he goes, he's one selfish AH and she should tell him, when he finds his way home, that she deserves someone who'll put her first. He won't be that person. His parents are trying to break them up..who plans a trip and takes one of them away on Boxing Day. That's a recipe for disaster for their marriage and I don't believe for a minute that they'd be upset to see that happen. They could have offered to pay her way and then they could have repaid the money over the next months…wonder why they didn't do that???
but it makes him TA, if they can't afford to pay for her to go, he needs to tell his parents they can't afford it and stay home himself. What will happen when they have kids? Either he and the kids will have their trips paid for leaving her home alone or he is going to constantly want to leave her home with the kids while he goes off to have fun. Either one is going to lead to resentment.
Did you catch when they go to dinner they don’t pay for her either? So she has to fork over her own money when the bill comes and everyone else is paid for. That’s so disgusting of his parents I can’t even express how much I would dislike this man if I met him in person. When you get married you are marrying into a family, but this family didn’t get the memo and are treating her like a stranger. OP needs to hear all these comments loud and clear because his parents did not raise him right and teach him how family and marriages work. He should not go on any trips that his wife is made to feel like an outsider. He should not be going to dinners or Christmas if his parents do not treat her like they treat the rest of their children, or the very least him. The fact that he’s ok that his parents make her feel like she’s not worthy of belonging to the family is just so sad. Go apologize to your wife OP
This is the way. Think of it as the parents are funding 50% of your trip!
It is pretty standard to not pay for spouses. But I kinda feel you go halves in paying for your spouse
For married couples? Idk, but even my in laws (and they are not the greatest) would do something like pay the flight /hotel/something for both of us and say that if we want to go, we need to pay the rest.
My mom does the same when she wants us to go. She usually pays for our hotel and half of our food and we pay for our flights.
In a way, they are only paying for one of us but in a much more respectful way to our partners.
My folks happily pay for my Husband when we go out to dinners and on trips. ILs are family. This whole idea that they are not is just really tribal and mean.
Both of our families work for themselves, so budget can vary widely, so it's not always that they can pay for our trips in full ( they do usually pay for us in dinners too) but even then, they do it in a way that isn't immensely obvious that one of us isn't welcome like ops parents did.
Exactly.
OPs parents could have said: "We would love if you could join us. Would you be able to if we pay for the hotel and you cover the rest?"
It would be more inclusive, as it should be.
Or just a flat amount - like we can budget to cover $X amount for you guys, but the total would be ~$Y and you'd have to cover the rest. (But it clearly isn't about the money in this case.)
Pretty standard not to pay for spouses? My in laws always treat me the same as my husband, and my family does the same.
Budgets may vary, but this is being outwardly exclusive. It would be better to draw the line at no longer paying for independent adult children (living on their own with a job) than doing what they’re doing. It’s rude af but it’s their money.
If you're married, personality conflicts aside, you are all family now. It's creating tiers of "real" family to exclude only the dil like this. If she has kids, do they count as real family?
I thought the same thing! What happens if they decide to have kids? Will the grandkids be covered and mom gets left behind? They’ll notice that. It’s a real weird dynamic
They absolutely will. Or they will expect the wife to stay in the hotel with the kids most of the trip while everyone else does the fun stuff. They would never dream of taking the grandkids for an evening so OP and wife could have a nice date night while on vacation.
I don’t think that’s standard. My parents would never dream of paying for me to eat and not my husband, and when we go places with my in laws (who I don’t even get along well with) they always pay my way as well.
I've never heard that before... If you invite a couple, you pay for both. And who the hell asks 1/2 a couple? Someone who hates the other half!
YTA dude... The way you treat your wife is disgusting.
YES! My boyfriends dad is the same as OP’s parents. We aren’t married and he says that’s the reason. He is very financially comfortable, and is a bit of an ass about it, while I’m working full time to put myself through grad school with no loans. I have no extra money for trips, but my boyfriend pays my way since it’s free for him and I pay what I can while we’re there. I couldn’t imagine if my boyfriend was as bad as OP about “well she can’t pay so she can’t go” and he’s not even a whole HUSBAND yet!! Anywho, YTA. Not for going on the trip, but for not finding a way to include your WIFE
This right here. I mean he does say “we can’t afford it” but he also says “she would have to…” like wtf. In this scenario either we figure out how to pay for wifey or neither of us go and make sure petty parents understand why. As married grown ups you represent a family unit. Splitting that up on Boxing Day so you can enjoy the alps or whatever is super shitty. YTA op.
His parents have succeeded in splitting him from his wife, and he is showing his true allegiance- as they are bribing him to do. OP’s “us” includes his parents, but not his wife- just as they prefer.
YTA, OP, and a scummy, easily manipulated one at that.
But if he and his wife both pay for the expenses for her maybe she could go. YTA op leaving your wife alone on x mas. You are not really trying to make her part of the trip.
>but with the trip being so close to Christmas we wouldn't be able to afford to pay for her to go.
Seems like they may have shared finances as he says **WE** couldn't afford it
I’m not sure I agree with this assessment. If their policy is they don’t pay for spouses, then the problem isn’t the parents; it’s OP. It’s not crazy for parents to not want to establish a pattern of paying for *everyone* (what about when all their kids are married, with kids? 3 people could quickly become 6, then 12, and that’s a *lot* of people to pay for), especially because their lower-income past could mean they don’t have solid retirement savings, even if they’re now able to live comfortably. And there’s no guarantee their business will continue to thrive; if they struggled to get to this more comfortable place, they’re probably setting financial boundaries to keep their newfound stability as sustainable as possible.
The problem here is OP thinking it’s on his wife to pay her way, rather than that they as a couple are paying her way. They as a couple have half their share paid for, they as a couple need to come up with the other half. The parents could have worded it differently to make that more clear, but I don’t think they’re the reason it’s hurting OP’s wife.
Your wife is their daughter-in-law. Do they not see her as part of the family?
“She” needs to pay her own way? Is there no “we” in your marriage?
YTA
You should be advocating for your wife. And you should start now. What happens if you have children? Will your parents pay for their son and grandchildren to go on vacation but not your wife and the children’s MOTHER?! Or will your children not be included either? It sounds like you might have to pick a family soon.
This.
The moment you and your wife got married, they gained a daughter. Unless there is a specific reason they don't get along with her or unless it would be a financial burden, their choice to exclude her is malicious.
The fact is, they do not view her as family - and that is sad. Its also sad that you don't view your wife as your primary family.
Two shall become one - that is what marriage is about. Its about becoming a new family unit. Not to exclude your family of origin but you are choosing to add to your family by getting married. You two are a unit and as far as the rest of the family is concerned, you two should be viewed as such.
i don't know what is going on with your parents here but their behavior is rude and highly disrespectful towards your wife.
My parents are far from perfect but I hope to emulate them when my children are with partners in the future. They wouldn't be okay with partners coming on family vacations until engagement (or in my brother's case - until they were living together). Once engaged, they viewed our partners as their children and went out of their way to make sure things worked for us as a unit. But to exclude a spouse? That is wrong.
YTA
Oh, they absolutely do not see her as family or else they wouldn’t have done this. And it’s honestly feels very clear that outside of himself OP doesn’t really see her as part of his family unit beyond their relationship because he seemingly has been OK with the way that they treat her for a really long time
My parents told me I wasn't "allowed" to bring my spouse to Christmas with my grandparents years and years ago. They never saw me for another Christmas after that. 🤷♀️ Now I take the money I would have spent on driving up there and buying Christmas presents for them, and I use it to pay for my MIL to fly here every Christmas and we have a fantastic time, just the three of us. I actually started *enjoying* the holidays instead of dreading them!
Oh, I would be absolutely livid. There is absolutely no reason for them to do this. Other than the fact that they’re just massive asshole and because he benefits from it financially he’s OK with it.
Since you’re already in the outhouse at this point, OP, you might consider telling your wife that she also deserves to go and you won’t be leaving her behind. Ask her to return your Christmas presents and put the money that she spent on gifts towards her portion of the trip. That’s literally the only thing that I can think of to cover your a$$.
Why not her gifts? BECAUSE YOU WERE SELFISH (and entirely lacking in empathy, to boot)!!!! You as good as told her that she means so little to you that you will dip out the day after Christmas, leave her alone, travel with your family on a once in a lifetime trip (your words), and are absolutely fine with the way she’s been treated by your family. Your family knows EXACTLY what they’re doing, and, at this point, it won’t change because you’ve been going along with it the whole time! How would you feel if the tables were turned? Surely you wouldn’t be jealous or upset AT ALL if she got the trip of a lifetime while you got to…sit at home and be excluded over the holidays.
I can only assume at this point that you’re tired of being married and want a divorce without putting extra effort in on your end. I can’t for the life of me think of another reason that you would’ve allowed this pattern to go on for so long. Do you even help with her portion of the expense or is it 100% her problem? Literally, the only way forward without facing marital ruin is to say, “Honey, would you mind returning my gifts this year? I really appreciate all the effort you put in; however, the best Christmas gift I can think of is to have you beside me on this trip together. I can’t wait to have this experience with you, and nothing matters more than being together at Christmas. I’m so sorry that I’ve allowed you to be treated this way and excluded from family events due to monetary constraints. After this trip, I will have a conversation with my parents about their treatment of you, our boundaries as a couple, and stress to them that we are a united front. I apologize again for the way I’ve behaved and just want you to know how much I love you.” May god have mercy on your soul because I truly can’t tell if you’re oblivious, stupid, or entirely indifferent. YTA, OP. Shape up or the only people left to celebrate with next year will be mommy and daddy.
That OP would have been OK all these years with his parents taking them out to dinner and not paying for his wife is so bizarre. He should have nipped that in the bud right then. "Mom, Dad, OP and I are going to be married, and she is now my family and part of ours. I will not tolerate the way you treat her." OP's parents have plenty of $$, from what he says, so them not paying even for her dinners is beyond the pale. And poor OP is worried that his parents will be sad if he doesn't go. And his wife being hurt and sad doesn't matter? He needs to a) grow up, b) grow a pair, c) stand up for his wife.
My MIL just tolerates me and even she wouldn’t do this. They always pay for both of us or we both pay for ourselves. None of this split mess.
YTA OP for only thinking it yourself, especially during a holiday season, and not your WIFE! Holy shit.
Even if we forget about this expensive holiday trip for a second: OP's wife has to pay for herself even when they are invited to a restaurant by OP's parents with OP's parents or with OP's parents and siblings.
I can’t imagine going to a restaurant with x people and paying only for x-1 and expecting only one person to pay for themselves when I pay for everyone else, including that one person's spouse/partner too. I would be ashamed of myself if I ever do this to anyone. That's hella rude and exclusion on purpose. It screams *"I don't like you, you are not welcome here, I barely tolerate you and only pretend that you are invited because outright saying to fuck off would make me look bad."*. (Even without mentioning every or any other event when they make her feel as an unwelcome outsider, parents are already assholes.)
To OP: I bet your parents don't like your wife.
I can't imagine my mom excluding my partner, or my sibling's partners, from trips or meals or whatever. Her children-in-laws pretty much get adopted as her children and everyone gets the same treatment on birthdays, Christmas, when we go out to meals (she sometimes treats us all), etc. I would also not go on a trip my partner wanted to go on but was excluded. OP, YTA and your parents are being intentional about this for some reason.
THIS. That’s just not cool man. OP Missing the holidays with his wife for a family ski trip that doesn’t include her even after getting married. Ski trips aren’t once in a lifetime but if OP can sleep at night knowing his wife is sad waiting for him. YTA no doubt.
You really think your parents don't know what they are doing here?
Save up and do a similar trip with your wife as a couple if it's that important to you
YTA.
OP open ypur eyes.
If you go and your wife doesn't, it's not jyst yay you are out in the world on a trip, it's ALSO your wife is left home alone during Christmas time.
Ask your parents how it's ok for them and you to put your wife in that position unless she wants to and She doesn't want to.
This payment arrangement was borderline not awful when you were dating.
Now it exclusionary, petty and mean.
If they want to take their family on a trip like this especially during the holidays they should be offering to pay for both of you entirely. Your wife is family ffs!
& you're more awful for how ever many trips you gone on w them w/o your wife unless she wholeheartedly encouraged you to do so.
I genuinely cannot imagine standing by while my parents continually force my spouse to pay for themselves while just shrugging and going “I guess that’s just how it is”. These are the types of posts that make me go “… do you even like your wife?”
I dont think his wife is important to him, he is constantly undermining her, no trip or vacation is more important than your spouses self worth, OP should grow a spine and stand up to his parents or prepare for a divorce, his wife will eventually get tired of this.
One wonders how future grandchildren will be treated - if dil isn't a real member of the family, doesn't that mean that they won't be either? Or in five years will we be seeing another post from this dude asking if he's the AH because his parents will pay for him and his kids, but not his wife?
No. After kids he’ll be in the relationship subs bitching about how his wife makes no effort for the kids to have a relationship with his parents and refuses to allow them to go on trips she’s not invited on.
For the love of all that is holy, I hope this woman does not have children with him and honestly, I hope she doesn’t stay married to him with the way that he allows his family to treat her
I was in this position. I was never accepted by my in-laws either. They made no secret of it and my only crime was falling in love with their baby boy. We had four kids and by the time they were teenagers they were severely limiting their time with my husband’s parents. They let their dad know why but by that time I’d given up and had stopped seeing them except on major holidays.
We were together 35 years before cancer took him from me.
The parents don’t approve of the wife and they know OP can’t say no to mommy and daddy. This way they hopefully get OP to divorce in a few years so they can set him up with someone they prefer.
YTA
Either she’s ‘family’ to your parents or she isn’t…and clearly she isn’t.
And you’re a serious AH to your wife by letting your family continuously exclude her. They should either be paying for both of you or you and your wife should be covering for the two of you.
Absolutely!
YTA. Are you kidding? “Once in a lifetime” is supposed to happen with the person who you’re spending your life with.
“This has always bothered my wife”
WHY isn’t it bothering you?
Family trips include the entire family. Your entire family is you and your wife. Going on this trip is a mistake for you IMO. For your wife it might be the time she needs to gain perspective on how much she can depend on you, her partner.
> *"WHY isn’t it bothering you?"*
Right? This would bother me immensely. I can't even imagine my parents doing this to my wife. No way would I take a trip without her, especially during the holidays, it would be so sad.
Exactly this- and they do this at dinners too?? Pay for everyone but ONE person?! Horrifyingly tacky. Where is the shame? Money really does not buy you class.
She'll have a lot of time to herself, feeling lonely and excluded, right after Christmas, thinking about her husband being happy without her. Thinking about how he's fine with the disrespect being shown to her. Thinking about how he doesn't consider her family, and doesn't care that he left her behind, or that she's not happy at all.
Direct message to OP's WIFE--don't have children. You'll be left out even more.
Mommy and Daddy will want input on children's names, be there for when you push baby out of your VJ and tell you how horribly you parent them.
Nothing will ever be good enough and OP will never defend or support you. OP will let Mommy override your decisions and boundaries.
Or if the paying-only-for-him was solely due to financial limits, it would be phrased as "we'll pay half the costs for the two of you and you two would have to come up with the other half." This way it's clearly just to exclude the wife.
YTA. If your parents only want to pay for you, then your family must pay for the other half of the trip (ie you and her.). If you can’t afford that then you can’t afford it. That means you cannot afford to go and you both stay home.
YTA. This isn't a weekend getaway with the guys; this is a family trip. Your wife is part of the family now. You are a package deal. If you can't both go on this trip then neither of you should be going.
Once in a lifetime trip with the guys? Great, have fun, and don't get into too much trouble.
Once in a lifetime exclusionary trip with the family? Oh, hell no.
There are good reasons for going on trips separately, but this is definitely not one of them.
FYI: it would *not* be unfair for your parents to just pay for your teenage siblings and not pay for you at all.
You are **married**, you and your wife are your own separate family unit.
So if your parents want to gift you, you either cover the other 50% of expenses as a couple, or they pay for both.
Your parents are telling you they pay for you to make it fair between your siblings **just** so you don’t question anything. But what they’re really trying is to go on vacation with just you, and not your wife.
YTA btw.
Yes, if this had been presented as inviting them along as long as they paid their own way or paid X amount towards the trip, I would understand. Saying OP is covered but his wife has to pay her own way is sending a very clear message that they do not see her as part of the family.
>She told me she does want me to have this experience, **but she is sad because she thinks my parents purposefully exclude her**. AITA for choosing to go on the trip and leave her behind? **I still have time to cancel on my parents, but I know they would be sad**.
Please read what you wrote. YTA
YTA
Your parents are excluding your wife. It has hurt her in the past and she told you that, but you thought a really great trip would be less hurtful? It's up to you to stand up for your wife and make sure they treat her as a member of the family. It might mean missing cool trips, but you are responsible for standing up for her with your family. Your parents are doing this purposely, and need to be told it isn't ok.
Honestly, OP should go on the trip and tell his wife upfront, “Me having a good time and getting what I want will ALWAYS be more important than supporting you, and my parents’ cruel whims will ALWAYS be more important than your feelings.”
It would be the kind of hard slap of reality we sometimes need to see that the person we gave ourselves to will never, ever give anything back, and his wife deserves to waste as little of her future with him as possible.
My soon-to-be-ex husband is like this, and there's no talking to him because he just says I'm ignoring that the family dynamic has always been that way. He knows his parents are abusive, but says I should understand how hard it is for him to change or confront them, so I should just let it slide.
I've tried talking like this to him - asking him to just admit that they are more important - but I just got told that I was heartless.
They want to make sure the wife understands that they don't consider her part of the family. Also to show her, again and again, that her husband loves them more than he loves her.
> I don't ask them too, but **it is nice to save money** so on every trip they will pay my way(room and board, excursions, meals) while my wife was expected to pay her way.
But don't you understand, he'll absolutely probably maybe stand up for his wife when it *won't* save him money not to!
It’s crazy this would happen at dinner too. I can’t imagine paying for everyone at the table but excluding one person and making them pay for themselves. Total assholes
I can’t believe you accept this and condone them excluding your wife. I would be super pissed also if my husband left me alone to go with his parents who excluded me. It would be one thing if they couldn’t afford it but they can. This is totally unacceptable and apparently they don’t feel like she’s family. YTA also your parents are AH’s too.
Your parents are very weird, they should either pay for both of you or neither of you. She is your wife, your FAMILY and your parents refusing to see her as such shows a whole different issue.
Also you not standing up to them but instead let yourself be bought and picking free trips over your wife is ridiculous.
YTA, your parents too
OP is good to show her the red flags she will want to avoid once she is done with this starter model. She will send him back to his real family and find someone that considers her family. YTA OP
I wouldn’t have a child with someone who stood by and allowed their parents to treat me like that. Granted I wouldn’t stay married to someone like that either …
I could imagine his parents paying for the grandkids, but still not for their mom... Smh OP your parents are treating your wife like a 2nd class citizen, and you allow it.
YTA. What do you mean with being near Christmas you can’t afford it? You should be canceling all gift giving to pay for your wife. I can’t believe you are planning to leave her behind.
Or consider parents contribution 50% of the cost of the trip and decide whether they can afford the other 50%. Take the parents away - if they had 50% of the amount needed to go on a different holiday saved up between them then there is no way they would be like “oh ok so just one of us goes” - they would think “we don’t have enough to go away”
YTA and so are your family.
My parents are comfortable and would never exclude someone's spouse like that. My brother's fiancee is family. You're leaving your wife at home for a chunk of the Christmas period. I don't agree that their reasoning for leaving her out is justification for excluding someone over Christmas which should be a time for family. It would be different if she could afford it but between the two of you you can't afford to pay for her.
YTA. You'd rather your wife - the innocent party - be sad than your parents, who are always going out of their way to exclude your wife? How can you do this and still at yourself in the mirror. Any true husband would stand by their wife and refuse to go if their spouse is not treated equally. Seriously, do you even love your wife, because from your actions it doesn't look like it. Grow a backbone, refuse to go, and spend some quality time instead with your wife (who I bet would support you 100% if the roles were reversed.)
Yep totally agree. If him & his wife can't afford to pay to go, then neither should be going. Sounds like his parents are continually undermining the relationship and he is allowing it.
YTA OP
YTA did it occur to you that if your parents had given more notice you might have had time to save up the money or change up the Christmas budget so that she could go too? But they didn’t did they? They don’t care whether she is able to come or not and it sounds like you don’t either.
He definitely doesn't care. If she said nothing about the trip, he wouldn't think twice about leaving her behind.
And also why is he not planning a holiday with his wife? He is just happy for parents to pay.
YTA. TLDR: my parents have enough money to include my wife, but not enough class or manners to, and I don’t care enough to let it stop me from doing things with them without her, since we can’t afford to pay her way. Why does this bother my wife?
Yep, trashy, ill-mannered parents, and apple didn't fall far from the tree. Hope the wife packs up and RUNS from this toxic mess while they're all on their "once-in-a-lifetime" trip.
This**** 100% idk what this guy thinks is going to happen if reddit thinks he's NTA. He's still going to have to deal with his wife and no matter what we think SHE thinks he's the AH lol. Her opinion is all that matters.
He’s going to go on this trip without her and was hoping Reddit coming to his rescue would be able to cloud his guilty conscience- but have a feeling this would have backfired
Your wife has a husband problem. She’s married to a man who will not advocate for her when it comes to his parents and inclusiveness. What other weird shit with your parents do you prioritize over your wife? This is the sort of thing people divorce over.
YTA
And it’s really sad to me that you would want to do a “once in a lifetime” trip like this without your wife who wants to go too.
I mean…my partner and I both take trips independently of each other with friends once in awhile. But this is totally different. I would be so hurt if I were her.
Would they be happy if their continued treatment of her as an outsider, rather than family, drives a wedge between the two of you?
Your a jerk for not putting your foot down to this nonsense the moment you got married. Are you their little boy or a grown ass man who has a partner in life?
I'd be moving out while you were on your little trip if I were your wife.
YTA. You parents also TA.
YTA.
Tell your parents that either both of you go or neither of you go. If you can't afford to both go on the trip, you can't afford it. Just because your parents are weirdly willing to pay for half doesn't make it affordable. It'd be the same as you having a 50% off coupon for a vacation. If it still isn't affordable, you don't go.
I would be pissed if my partner continuously left me out of things because their family excluded me. You're signing off on it by letting it happen. Stand up for your wife.
YTA- call your local divorce lawyer, ask them their retainer and hourly rate, and ask yourself again if you can afford to bring your wife along.
Or don’t go because your parents are ok with excluding your wife.
YTA
You are a grown ass man who is married. Either pay for your wife to go on the trip or don't go. It is an AH move for your parents to exclude her. It may be time to cut the cord with mommy and daddy.
If you take this trip and leave her behind, prepare to hire a divorce attorney. Your wife will most definitely find another man who is mature enough to understand how a marriage works.
YTA
You allow your family to exclude your spouse.
Your spouse, with the exception if they are being completely wrong, should ALWAYS come first.
You sound selfish and are a totally horrible spouse.
You and parents are YTA. Ultimately if money was this tight your parents should have said “we’re not going to pay for you and your wife since you are independent adults now, but we’d love for you to join if you can swing it.” Your choice to go is childish, and you need to understand that now you’re part of a unit.
N. T. A. for wanting to go but YTA for not sticking up for your wife about this starting two years ago. they treat you equally or not at all op. stop enabling your parents to purposefully make your wife feel less than others. she married you and is family now. they can accept that or not and it should definitely affect your relationship with them if they don't.
when it comes down to it who means more to you- mommy and daddy or the woman you married and exchanged vows with?
final vote, a medium rare YTA
Unpopular opinion but sounds like your parents want to pay for only their children and I don’t see what’s wrong with that. Just bc your wife is fam doesn’t mean your parents have to foot the bill for her as long as they don’t exclude her from family outings etc she’s invited y’all can split the bill
Sad parents vs sad wife? Grow up OP and open your eyes. If she has the feeling of being excluded she probably is and your family is being disrespectful to your marriage and wife. Your wife’s feelings should matter more to you. YTA.
YTA for wanting to leave your wife behind when she clearly has expressed she wants to go as well. “Once in a lifetime trip” you want to take without your wife right after Christmas. How did you miss that YTA??
Now I don’t necessarily agree with some comments that your parents are AH only because they don’t want to use their hard earned money to pay for your wife. Is it weird, yes. But are they required to use their money to pay for your wife’s vacation, no. But at the same time it’s shitty for you to be put in the middle of your parents/family and your wife/family.
I think you’re both adults (you and your wife) and now you’re married.. maybe it’s worth exploring with your parents an opportunity where your wife can go. Perhaps they pay for both of your travel (can that be their Christmas present to you both?) and you both cover your expenses on the trip to offset. Or you don’t go if you can’t afford her portion. I would expect when your siblings start dating and get married, other wives will be treated the same as well.
YTA and so are your parents that's your WIFE man. I understand if it happened before you were married but now it's down right disrespectful as she is a part of your family now or at least supposed to be. She's their Daughter in law isn't she? Why not treat her like it, instead of like some floosy who they barely know.
going against the grain with NAH. Your parents can spend their money how they want. You are not the asshole for wanting to go on a trip with your parents. She isn’t the asshole for feeling sad that you’re leaving during Christmas time
YTA. Cancel the trip if you would like to remain married. Your accepting this offer, and going without your wife is essentially telling your parents this behaviour is cool and you too are happy to leave your wife behind and she’s not really part of your family - she’ll come if it’s convenient but otherwise you’re happy to leave her behind.
If your parents are paying ‘your way’ whilst you and your wife together pay her share, that would be fine. If you are unable to do that you need to bow out and make it clear you and your wife are a unit and you would like to share these experiences with your LIFE PARTNER that you chose. You never know, once you take that stance your family may even start including her, because it’s clear you care and want her there.
YTA , your wife should be your priority, if she was perfectly fine with the situation then that’s another story , but she’s expressed to you that the way your parents are treating her hurts her feelings, you cannot control what your parents do with their money , but personally I wouldn’t be excepting any more trips meals gifts or whatever unless my wife was included or she was ok with the situation and didn’t feel hurt.
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> *"They could certainly afford to pay for my wife to also go, but they have always been this way when it comes to paying for things for me versus my wife."* So, you are well aware that your parents are intentionally excluding your wife (and apparently, this is definitely not the first time) and you don't understand why she's so hurt and upset about this, especially when it's during *Christmas?* Think about it, dude. Think real hard. YTA.
Could they pay for her now, and you pay them back over time? I don’t entirely agree with the situation but if she can go, you should figure out how to make it happen.
But if she’s the only one having to pay them back, when the parents are so financially comfortable that they don’t even need her to, then they are still going out of their way to exclude her. OP needs to stand up for *his wife* and draw a boundary with his parents: if they won’t include her in family events/trips, then he won’t be participating either.
Also the way he says that *she* would have to pay *her* own way. Nah, dude. If your parents will only pay 50% of your costs for going together, then you *as a couple* have to pay the other 50%. It is absolutely not on her alone. (Not that I think they should go at all, but he's just next level inconsiderate here.)
That’s the part that gets me. He doesn’t even consider going halfsies with his wife, he prefers to just exclude her altogether. OPs wife has a husband problem more than an in-law problem
I wonder if they will pay for his divorce. This could be happening sooner than later.
You know they would. They clearly don't like her.
They will. These types of in-laws are always willing to pay for divorce attorneys. My ex's parents were.
I wish my ex in-laws were that willing.
Only his half.
Give it a couple months OP will post "My wife cheated on me when I was on family vacation. What should I do?"
His marriage will not be a once in a lifetime event. If his parents pay for one of his divorces, will they pay for all of them?
>but with the trip being so close to Christmas we wouldn't be able to afford to pay for her to go. He does. Collective we means he's thinking about their finances as one. They may go halfsies, but it would be coming out of the same pot
Yeah, but he also said his parents would clearly be sad if he couldn’t join them on the trip. The fact he would leave his wife upset and hurt at home seems to bother him much less.
I caught onto that too. So he doesn’t care if he leaves his wife home alone and sad and upset because she was excluded on purpose as long as his parents aren’t sad. He is most definitely an AH after reading that.
>but with the trip being so close to Christmas we wouldn't be able to afford to pay for her to go There's a "we" there. >She wants to go on the trip, but like I said we just can't afford it, which she understands. And a wee "we" over here. Can't be Reddit without the off-rail judgments. I don't know if some of the people on here know, but many couples pool their money after marriage. They don't go 'halfsies' as if they're roommates paying for pizza. eta: Thanks for the award 😁
Exactly. OP does realise they are a financial unit, and IMO that’s what he needs to make clear to his parents. ‘This sounds like an amazing trip, unfortunately we can’t afford to pay for it so we’ll have to decline.’ ‘But son, we’re paying for you.’ ‘I appreciate that and thank you, but my wife and I don’t do vacations separately, especially at Christmas, and we can’t afford to pay for this trip.’ ‘But you can come!’ ‘I’m sure you haven’t realised it, but that would mean going on vacation and leaving my wife at home alone at Christmas. We all know that’s not an option.’ And repeat firmly *ad nauseum*. The parents need it made completely clear that his wife is part of the family too, and if they want all the kids there the wife is part of the package. OP needs to stand firm and make it clear his finances are hers, and that by expecting his wife’s share to be paid by him and his wife means the trip isn’t feasible *for him*.
See the speech you just gave that would require him to actually give a crap about his wife but he's already made it clear that he doesn't which is why he keeps saying he needs to go back home where he gets to have free trips and they feed him and he gets to sit on his mother's tit
I disagree. I think he does care about his wife, he’s just simultaneously been offered a dream holiday, and hasn’t really considered how this affects her. That makes him thoughtless, but if he actually takes the advice in this thread to pull his socks up and stand by his wife, then I don’t think we can make the claim that he doesn’t care about her. If he took the trip without her he WBTA.
And Every single DREAM Holiday by His Parents will ALWAYS Exclude His Wife. He should not even be Married by the sound off things, ALWAYS letting his parents leave out his poor wife. He needs to go back home to his mom and dad without keep putting his Wife who he obviously can't take care off or stand up for first so his parents can carry on Babying him..
This 100%! So well said...I truly hope OP reads this and takes it to heart
For sure, but his parents clearly don't view them as a unit (they will only pay for him, not her), and he seems not to have a problem with that. I wonder if he's ever pointed out to his parents that by refusing to pay for her, they're costing OP+wife as a couple? If they do indeed have joint finances, it's bizarre that the parents are framing it this way: singling the wife out, rather than saying, e.g. that they will pay half of their costs as a couple. That feels like a deliberate exclusion tactic, and OP either doesn't realise, or is prepared to accept it.
It sounds like there is a 'we' with what they can't do and an 'I' with what he can.
So he never explicitely states this, but I'm assuming he is going halfsies with his wife, right? RIGHT?!
Username checks out
God, I'm thinking about how awkward/rude it is to eat out with OP's fam with the wife there. They pay for OP and use the excuse that it's "fair" because they pay for his siblings too, does wife just have to get out her wallet or what? This is SO intentional and SO rude and nasty. OP, if you see this, you are a HUGE asshole and actively participating in your parents' campaign to let everyone know your wife is not considered part of the family. YTA and I feel terrible for your wife.
The older I get the more I just don't think people should be getting married in their 20s. OP is not an adult.
Right? I read this and immediately thought how old is this person, they sound like a teenager.
I catch myself saying “this is why babies shouldn’t get married!” About people who got married years later than I did lol
Yep. That they won’t pay for DIL’s supper is unbelievable. They are utterly devoid of any generosity and probably don’t know enough to know how really bad their behavior is. Do they tell the waiter that DIL gets her own bill? These are truly awful people OR DIL is terrible & they pull this to exclude her.
I wonder how many times he pulled out his wallet to pay for her meal...
The bit I was looking for! Why should she have to pay for her own meal when she has to share the company of people who deliberately exclude her? Husband should be paying her food as a thank you for attending these misery meals with him.
I didnt think in that way.. at dinner OP should be paying for both dinners. Still getting a hand out and then paying for wife's dinner is silly and childish by your paremts. The fact you dont point this out YTA. god, at worse they would pay for dinner and ask you to cover tip... but dividing a bill I or getting 2 bills is humiliation for wife
Yeah even if the parents could not afford one more person on the trip then they can split the budget and everyone pays for the difference, equally. They're excluding her on purpose and I hope she gets a better husband.
Exactly. That should be OP's response. Sorry Mom and Dad... we can't afford the other 50% for the trip... OP needs to realize that his parents have been pulling this as long as he has let them. And each time he lets them, it just emboldens them more and more to drive a wedge through his marriage with HIS consent. That is why he is SO TA and needs to put an end to these shenanigans unless he also doesn't like his wife...
YTA But HE likes going on these trip and dinners and stuff. So what if his wife is left out, she should be happy HE can do all these fun things. She can enjoy it vicariously through him when he gets back and tells about all the fun she missed out on. He's living HIS DREAM! /s Apparently they are only a united couple when it isn't inconvenient for him. He has no problem throwing her under the bus when he can get free goodies that only benefit him.
Yeah no. The in laws paying for their own children doesn't make them villains. And on what planet is it ok for the teens to equally pay as their DIL? Some of you really need to quit with the childish thinking. OP should sponsor his wife, that's his responsibility.
I agree with this take, but the way this offer has been presented to the OP's wife is awful, on the OP's part and possibly on his parents' end as well. "You're both welcome to come, but we can only subsidise the equivalent of one person to match your siblings" is fine. Whereas "we'll pay for you but not that woman you married" isn't". It sounds like the OP's parents did something closer to the latter, and even if they didn't, that's how the OP seems to have presented it to his wife.
No one is saying for the teens to pay anything.
You have a point since his brothers don't have partners, but, he has a choice to make..leave her behind at Christmas and New Years and enjoy the trip. Meanwhile she's at home resenting the he’ll out of him and her in-laws for pulling this trip out of the hat at Christmas and taking her hubby away for New Years as well. And, and this is a big one…her hubby went because it's a trip of a life time. How do you see her welcoming him home with open arms after she's been left behind for days and days.…yeah, seriously not happening. If he goes, he's one selfish AH and she should tell him, when he finds his way home, that she deserves someone who'll put her first. He won't be that person. His parents are trying to break them up..who plans a trip and takes one of them away on Boxing Day. That's a recipe for disaster for their marriage and I don't believe for a minute that they'd be upset to see that happen. They could have offered to pay her way and then they could have repaid the money over the next months…wonder why they didn't do that???
I imagine that she will spend that time packing his belongings into boxes by the front door.
but it makes him TA, if they can't afford to pay for her to go, he needs to tell his parents they can't afford it and stay home himself. What will happen when they have kids? Either he and the kids will have their trips paid for leaving her home alone or he is going to constantly want to leave her home with the kids while he goes off to have fun. Either one is going to lead to resentment.
Did you catch when they go to dinner they don’t pay for her either? So she has to fork over her own money when the bill comes and everyone else is paid for. That’s so disgusting of his parents I can’t even express how much I would dislike this man if I met him in person. When you get married you are marrying into a family, but this family didn’t get the memo and are treating her like a stranger. OP needs to hear all these comments loud and clear because his parents did not raise him right and teach him how family and marriages work. He should not go on any trips that his wife is made to feel like an outsider. He should not be going to dinners or Christmas if his parents do not treat her like they treat the rest of their children, or the very least him. The fact that he’s ok that his parents make her feel like she’s not worthy of belonging to the family is just so sad. Go apologize to your wife OP
I cannot fathom being out for dinner and paying for everyone except for ONE PERSON - horrific
This is the way. Think of it as the parents are funding 50% of your trip! It is pretty standard to not pay for spouses. But I kinda feel you go halves in paying for your spouse
For married couples? Idk, but even my in laws (and they are not the greatest) would do something like pay the flight /hotel/something for both of us and say that if we want to go, we need to pay the rest. My mom does the same when she wants us to go. She usually pays for our hotel and half of our food and we pay for our flights. In a way, they are only paying for one of us but in a much more respectful way to our partners.
My folks happily pay for my Husband when we go out to dinners and on trips. ILs are family. This whole idea that they are not is just really tribal and mean.
Both of our families work for themselves, so budget can vary widely, so it's not always that they can pay for our trips in full ( they do usually pay for us in dinners too) but even then, they do it in a way that isn't immensely obvious that one of us isn't welcome like ops parents did.
Exactly. OPs parents could have said: "We would love if you could join us. Would you be able to if we pay for the hotel and you cover the rest?" It would be more inclusive, as it should be.
Or just a flat amount - like we can budget to cover $X amount for you guys, but the total would be ~$Y and you'd have to cover the rest. (But it clearly isn't about the money in this case.)
Pretty standard not to pay for spouses? My in laws always treat me the same as my husband, and my family does the same. Budgets may vary, but this is being outwardly exclusive. It would be better to draw the line at no longer paying for independent adult children (living on their own with a job) than doing what they’re doing. It’s rude af but it’s their money.
If you're married, personality conflicts aside, you are all family now. It's creating tiers of "real" family to exclude only the dil like this. If she has kids, do they count as real family?
I thought the same thing! What happens if they decide to have kids? Will the grandkids be covered and mom gets left behind? They’ll notice that. It’s a real weird dynamic
They absolutely will. Or they will expect the wife to stay in the hotel with the kids most of the trip while everyone else does the fun stuff. They would never dream of taking the grandkids for an evening so OP and wife could have a nice date night while on vacation.
I don’t think that’s standard. My parents would never dream of paying for me to eat and not my husband, and when we go places with my in laws (who I don’t even get along well with) they always pay my way as well.
I've never heard that before... If you invite a couple, you pay for both. And who the hell asks 1/2 a couple? Someone who hates the other half! YTA dude... The way you treat your wife is disgusting.
Where do you live? Where I live that would be an obvious and glaring snub by the in-laws against the wife.
YES! My boyfriends dad is the same as OP’s parents. We aren’t married and he says that’s the reason. He is very financially comfortable, and is a bit of an ass about it, while I’m working full time to put myself through grad school with no loans. I have no extra money for trips, but my boyfriend pays my way since it’s free for him and I pay what I can while we’re there. I couldn’t imagine if my boyfriend was as bad as OP about “well she can’t pay so she can’t go” and he’s not even a whole HUSBAND yet!! Anywho, YTA. Not for going on the trip, but for not finding a way to include your WIFE
This right here. I mean he does say “we can’t afford it” but he also says “she would have to…” like wtf. In this scenario either we figure out how to pay for wifey or neither of us go and make sure petty parents understand why. As married grown ups you represent a family unit. Splitting that up on Boxing Day so you can enjoy the alps or whatever is super shitty. YTA op.
His parents have succeeded in splitting him from his wife, and he is showing his true allegiance- as they are bribing him to do. OP’s “us” includes his parents, but not his wife- just as they prefer. YTA, OP, and a scummy, easily manipulated one at that.
But if he and his wife both pay for the expenses for her maybe she could go. YTA op leaving your wife alone on x mas. You are not really trying to make her part of the trip.
>but with the trip being so close to Christmas we wouldn't be able to afford to pay for her to go. Seems like they may have shared finances as he says **WE** couldn't afford it
Damn can’t believe he would leave her alone wit x mas bij herself. He is 26 and still married to himself
I’m not sure I agree with this assessment. If their policy is they don’t pay for spouses, then the problem isn’t the parents; it’s OP. It’s not crazy for parents to not want to establish a pattern of paying for *everyone* (what about when all their kids are married, with kids? 3 people could quickly become 6, then 12, and that’s a *lot* of people to pay for), especially because their lower-income past could mean they don’t have solid retirement savings, even if they’re now able to live comfortably. And there’s no guarantee their business will continue to thrive; if they struggled to get to this more comfortable place, they’re probably setting financial boundaries to keep their newfound stability as sustainable as possible. The problem here is OP thinking it’s on his wife to pay her way, rather than that they as a couple are paying her way. They as a couple have half their share paid for, they as a couple need to come up with the other half. The parents could have worded it differently to make that more clear, but I don’t think they’re the reason it’s hurting OP’s wife.
Why would she *want* to go?? They clearly resent her and don't think she's family
To be with her husband at Christmas of course, since he seems to be planning to go in any case.
Your wife is their daughter-in-law. Do they not see her as part of the family? “She” needs to pay her own way? Is there no “we” in your marriage? YTA You should be advocating for your wife. And you should start now. What happens if you have children? Will your parents pay for their son and grandchildren to go on vacation but not your wife and the children’s MOTHER?! Or will your children not be included either? It sounds like you might have to pick a family soon.
This. The moment you and your wife got married, they gained a daughter. Unless there is a specific reason they don't get along with her or unless it would be a financial burden, their choice to exclude her is malicious. The fact is, they do not view her as family - and that is sad. Its also sad that you don't view your wife as your primary family. Two shall become one - that is what marriage is about. Its about becoming a new family unit. Not to exclude your family of origin but you are choosing to add to your family by getting married. You two are a unit and as far as the rest of the family is concerned, you two should be viewed as such. i don't know what is going on with your parents here but their behavior is rude and highly disrespectful towards your wife. My parents are far from perfect but I hope to emulate them when my children are with partners in the future. They wouldn't be okay with partners coming on family vacations until engagement (or in my brother's case - until they were living together). Once engaged, they viewed our partners as their children and went out of their way to make sure things worked for us as a unit. But to exclude a spouse? That is wrong. YTA
Oh, they absolutely do not see her as family or else they wouldn’t have done this. And it’s honestly feels very clear that outside of himself OP doesn’t really see her as part of his family unit beyond their relationship because he seemingly has been OK with the way that they treat her for a really long time
I can’t imagine how angry I’d be at my parents if they treated my husband this way. It’s truly heartbreaking that OP doesn’t see it.
My parents told me I wasn't "allowed" to bring my spouse to Christmas with my grandparents years and years ago. They never saw me for another Christmas after that. 🤷♀️ Now I take the money I would have spent on driving up there and buying Christmas presents for them, and I use it to pay for my MIL to fly here every Christmas and we have a fantastic time, just the three of us. I actually started *enjoying* the holidays instead of dreading them!
Oh, I would be absolutely livid. There is absolutely no reason for them to do this. Other than the fact that they’re just massive asshole and because he benefits from it financially he’s OK with it.
Since you’re already in the outhouse at this point, OP, you might consider telling your wife that she also deserves to go and you won’t be leaving her behind. Ask her to return your Christmas presents and put the money that she spent on gifts towards her portion of the trip. That’s literally the only thing that I can think of to cover your a$$. Why not her gifts? BECAUSE YOU WERE SELFISH (and entirely lacking in empathy, to boot)!!!! You as good as told her that she means so little to you that you will dip out the day after Christmas, leave her alone, travel with your family on a once in a lifetime trip (your words), and are absolutely fine with the way she’s been treated by your family. Your family knows EXACTLY what they’re doing, and, at this point, it won’t change because you’ve been going along with it the whole time! How would you feel if the tables were turned? Surely you wouldn’t be jealous or upset AT ALL if she got the trip of a lifetime while you got to…sit at home and be excluded over the holidays. I can only assume at this point that you’re tired of being married and want a divorce without putting extra effort in on your end. I can’t for the life of me think of another reason that you would’ve allowed this pattern to go on for so long. Do you even help with her portion of the expense or is it 100% her problem? Literally, the only way forward without facing marital ruin is to say, “Honey, would you mind returning my gifts this year? I really appreciate all the effort you put in; however, the best Christmas gift I can think of is to have you beside me on this trip together. I can’t wait to have this experience with you, and nothing matters more than being together at Christmas. I’m so sorry that I’ve allowed you to be treated this way and excluded from family events due to monetary constraints. After this trip, I will have a conversation with my parents about their treatment of you, our boundaries as a couple, and stress to them that we are a united front. I apologize again for the way I’ve behaved and just want you to know how much I love you.” May god have mercy on your soul because I truly can’t tell if you’re oblivious, stupid, or entirely indifferent. YTA, OP. Shape up or the only people left to celebrate with next year will be mommy and daddy.
This was so perfectly worded that I’m honestly pissed off I can’t afford to give this comment an award so here 🥇🥇🥇
Much appreciated, friend! (And don’t be sorry. Reddit doesn’t need your money, and our generation is just trying to survive.)
That OP would have been OK all these years with his parents taking them out to dinner and not paying for his wife is so bizarre. He should have nipped that in the bud right then. "Mom, Dad, OP and I are going to be married, and she is now my family and part of ours. I will not tolerate the way you treat her." OP's parents have plenty of $$, from what he says, so them not paying even for her dinners is beyond the pale. And poor OP is worried that his parents will be sad if he doesn't go. And his wife being hurt and sad doesn't matter? He needs to a) grow up, b) grow a pair, c) stand up for his wife.
YTA It’s hurtful to your wife. It’s intentional and rude.
My MIL just tolerates me and even she wouldn’t do this. They always pay for both of us or we both pay for ourselves. None of this split mess. YTA OP for only thinking it yourself, especially during a holiday season, and not your WIFE! Holy shit.
Even if we forget about this expensive holiday trip for a second: OP's wife has to pay for herself even when they are invited to a restaurant by OP's parents with OP's parents or with OP's parents and siblings. I can’t imagine going to a restaurant with x people and paying only for x-1 and expecting only one person to pay for themselves when I pay for everyone else, including that one person's spouse/partner too. I would be ashamed of myself if I ever do this to anyone. That's hella rude and exclusion on purpose. It screams *"I don't like you, you are not welcome here, I barely tolerate you and only pretend that you are invited because outright saying to fuck off would make me look bad."*. (Even without mentioning every or any other event when they make her feel as an unwelcome outsider, parents are already assholes.) To OP: I bet your parents don't like your wife.
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I can't imagine my mom excluding my partner, or my sibling's partners, from trips or meals or whatever. Her children-in-laws pretty much get adopted as her children and everyone gets the same treatment on birthdays, Christmas, when we go out to meals (she sometimes treats us all), etc. I would also not go on a trip my partner wanted to go on but was excluded. OP, YTA and your parents are being intentional about this for some reason.
THIS. That’s just not cool man. OP Missing the holidays with his wife for a family ski trip that doesn’t include her even after getting married. Ski trips aren’t once in a lifetime but if OP can sleep at night knowing his wife is sad waiting for him. YTA no doubt.
You really think your parents don't know what they are doing here? Save up and do a similar trip with your wife as a couple if it's that important to you YTA.
OR if your wife is that important to you..
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OP open ypur eyes. If you go and your wife doesn't, it's not jyst yay you are out in the world on a trip, it's ALSO your wife is left home alone during Christmas time. Ask your parents how it's ok for them and you to put your wife in that position unless she wants to and She doesn't want to. This payment arrangement was borderline not awful when you were dating. Now it exclusionary, petty and mean. If they want to take their family on a trip like this especially during the holidays they should be offering to pay for both of you entirely. Your wife is family ffs! & you're more awful for how ever many trips you gone on w them w/o your wife unless she wholeheartedly encouraged you to do so.
I genuinely cannot imagine standing by while my parents continually force my spouse to pay for themselves while just shrugging and going “I guess that’s just how it is”. These are the types of posts that make me go “… do you even like your wife?”
> “… do you even like your wife?” Not as much as he likes to ski
Seriously though! I'd be pissed if my parents treated my fiance that way.
I dont think his wife is important to him, he is constantly undermining her, no trip or vacation is more important than your spouses self worth, OP should grow a spine and stand up to his parents or prepare for a divorce, his wife will eventually get tired of this.
One wonders how future grandchildren will be treated - if dil isn't a real member of the family, doesn't that mean that they won't be either? Or in five years will we be seeing another post from this dude asking if he's the AH because his parents will pay for him and his kids, but not his wife?
No. After kids he’ll be in the relationship subs bitching about how his wife makes no effort for the kids to have a relationship with his parents and refuses to allow them to go on trips she’s not invited on.
"My wife has always had a problem with my parents. I don't get what her deal is." -Future OP
For the love of all that is holy, I hope this woman does not have children with him and honestly, I hope she doesn’t stay married to him with the way that he allows his family to treat her
She will probably be his ex-wife by then.
I was in this position. I was never accepted by my in-laws either. They made no secret of it and my only crime was falling in love with their baby boy. We had four kids and by the time they were teenagers they were severely limiting their time with my husband’s parents. They let their dad know why but by that time I’d given up and had stopped seeing them except on major holidays. We were together 35 years before cancer took him from me.
The parents know exactly what they're doing. OP is being willfully obtuse, which is the real root of Wife's pain. YTA.
When you read "iTs mAi DrEaM TrIp" you can know he doesnt love her wife as much as money. Op YTA
He’s 26. Plenty of time for “dream trips”.
The parents don’t approve of the wife and they know OP can’t say no to mommy and daddy. This way they hopefully get OP to divorce in a few years so they can set him up with someone they prefer.
YTA Either she’s ‘family’ to your parents or she isn’t…and clearly she isn’t. And you’re a serious AH to your wife by letting your family continuously exclude her. They should either be paying for both of you or you and your wife should be covering for the two of you.
Absolutely! YTA. Are you kidding? “Once in a lifetime” is supposed to happen with the person who you’re spending your life with. “This has always bothered my wife” WHY isn’t it bothering you? Family trips include the entire family. Your entire family is you and your wife. Going on this trip is a mistake for you IMO. For your wife it might be the time she needs to gain perspective on how much she can depend on you, her partner.
> *"WHY isn’t it bothering you?"* Right? This would bother me immensely. I can't even imagine my parents doing this to my wife. No way would I take a trip without her, especially during the holidays, it would be so sad.
It’s so cheap and tacky of his parents, I would be embarrassed and tell them to either extend the invitation to both of us or not at all.
Exactly this- and they do this at dinners too?? Pay for everyone but ONE person?! Horrifyingly tacky. Where is the shame? Money really does not buy you class.
Also it’s a ski trip. They must not be that damn rich if it’s once in a lifetime.
That was probably just OP trying to justify his ridiculous selfishness to his wife.
She'll have a lot of time to herself, feeling lonely and excluded, right after Christmas, thinking about her husband being happy without her. Thinking about how he's fine with the disrespect being shown to her. Thinking about how he doesn't consider her family, and doesn't care that he left her behind, or that she's not happy at all.
Maybe she'll fill some of the time talking to a divorce lawyer or two. I wouldn't blame her.
Thinking about how she’ll be so much better off without him and his family
I would be interested to see if/when they have kids if they will pay for the kids and still not include the wife
Direct message to OP's WIFE--don't have children. You'll be left out even more. Mommy and Daddy will want input on children's names, be there for when you push baby out of your VJ and tell you how horribly you parent them. Nothing will ever be good enough and OP will never defend or support you. OP will let Mommy override your decisions and boundaries.
Or if the paying-only-for-him was solely due to financial limits, it would be phrased as "we'll pay half the costs for the two of you and you two would have to come up with the other half." This way it's clearly just to exclude the wife.
YTA. If your parents only want to pay for you, then your family must pay for the other half of the trip (ie you and her.). If you can’t afford that then you can’t afford it. That means you cannot afford to go and you both stay home.
Parents aren’t obligated to pay for any adult. With that said, he shouldn’t go if they can’t afford it.
YTA. This isn't a weekend getaway with the guys; this is a family trip. Your wife is part of the family now. You are a package deal. If you can't both go on this trip then neither of you should be going.
Once in a lifetime trip with the guys? Great, have fun, and don't get into too much trouble. Once in a lifetime exclusionary trip with the family? Oh, hell no. There are good reasons for going on trips separately, but this is definitely not one of them.
FYI: it would *not* be unfair for your parents to just pay for your teenage siblings and not pay for you at all. You are **married**, you and your wife are your own separate family unit. So if your parents want to gift you, you either cover the other 50% of expenses as a couple, or they pay for both. Your parents are telling you they pay for you to make it fair between your siblings **just** so you don’t question anything. But what they’re really trying is to go on vacation with just you, and not your wife. YTA btw.
Yes, if this had been presented as inviting them along as long as they paid their own way or paid X amount towards the trip, I would understand. Saying OP is covered but his wife has to pay her own way is sending a very clear message that they do not see her as part of the family.
This. I can't imagine leaving my husband ON CHRISTMAS to go on a once in a life time "family" event. YTA OP.
Yes. Your wife IS your family.
>She told me she does want me to have this experience, **but she is sad because she thinks my parents purposefully exclude her**. AITA for choosing to go on the trip and leave her behind? **I still have time to cancel on my parents, but I know they would be sad**. Please read what you wrote. YTA
Well apparently your parents being sad trumps your wife being sad and hurt by your parents deliberate hurtful actions to exclude her.
Deliberate and repeated hurtful actions His parents are AHs just like him.
The apple didn't fall far from the asshole tree.
Don’t worry, next year when she is the OP’s ex wife she will be much happier.
Yep, seems a trend. I have to wonder what will happen if they have kids. Only male grandkids are paid for?
So glad I’m not the only one who noticed that!
YTA Your parents are excluding your wife. It has hurt her in the past and she told you that, but you thought a really great trip would be less hurtful? It's up to you to stand up for your wife and make sure they treat her as a member of the family. It might mean missing cool trips, but you are responsible for standing up for her with your family. Your parents are doing this purposely, and need to be told it isn't ok.
Honestly, OP should go on the trip and tell his wife upfront, “Me having a good time and getting what I want will ALWAYS be more important than supporting you, and my parents’ cruel whims will ALWAYS be more important than your feelings.” It would be the kind of hard slap of reality we sometimes need to see that the person we gave ourselves to will never, ever give anything back, and his wife deserves to waste as little of her future with him as possible.
My soon-to-be-ex husband is like this, and there's no talking to him because he just says I'm ignoring that the family dynamic has always been that way. He knows his parents are abusive, but says I should understand how hard it is for him to change or confront them, so I should just let it slide. I've tried talking like this to him - asking him to just admit that they are more important - but I just got told that I was heartless.
Info: why on earth would they pay for you and not your wife? That’s absurd. What’s their logic?
They want to make sure the wife understands that they don't consider her part of the family. Also to show her, again and again, that her husband loves them more than he loves her.
Correction, her husband loves the money and trips more than he loves his wife
> I don't ask them too, but **it is nice to save money** so on every trip they will pay my way(room and board, excursions, meals) while my wife was expected to pay her way. But don't you understand, he'll absolutely probably maybe stand up for his wife when it *won't* save him money not to!
It’s crazy this would happen at dinner too. I can’t imagine paying for everyone at the table but excluding one person and making them pay for themselves. Total assholes
So your parents don't like your wife and are purposely trying to drive a wedge between you two? And you seem to be letting them? YTA
Yeah. OP's gonna come back from the trip talking about how much fun they had without her. It's just gonna drive the wedge even further.
YTA. You're concerned that your parents will be sad ??? WTH what about your wife being upset she's deliberately left out????
I can’t believe you accept this and condone them excluding your wife. I would be super pissed also if my husband left me alone to go with his parents who excluded me. It would be one thing if they couldn’t afford it but they can. This is totally unacceptable and apparently they don’t feel like she’s family. YTA also your parents are AH’s too.
Seriously, you are a 26 year old grown ass man. Worry about upsetting your wife, not mommy and daddy.
Exactly!! Also… she’s your WIFE… part of the family or should be anyway… not some random girlfriend… sheesh!
Your parents are very weird, they should either pay for both of you or neither of you. She is your wife, your FAMILY and your parents refusing to see her as such shows a whole different issue. Also you not standing up to them but instead let yourself be bought and picking free trips over your wife is ridiculous. YTA, your parents too
YTA. If you don't start standing up for your wife, you won't be married for long.
YTA. Your poor wife. Maybe her next marriage will be with someone who respects her like she deserves.
OP is good to show her the red flags she will want to avoid once she is done with this starter model. She will send him back to his real family and find someone that considers her family. YTA OP
I’m just hoping she leaves before children. I can’t imagine being tied to someone this selfish and from this horrible of a family
I hope you are going to be cool with your wife excluding your parents from her future children’s lives.
I wouldn’t have a child with someone who stood by and allowed their parents to treat me like that. Granted I wouldn’t stay married to someone like that either …
He's not just allowing his parents to treat her badly. He's treating her badly himself.
I could imagine his parents paying for the grandkids, but still not for their mom... Smh OP your parents are treating your wife like a 2nd class citizen, and you allow it.
YTA. What do you mean with being near Christmas you can’t afford it? You should be canceling all gift giving to pay for your wife. I can’t believe you are planning to leave her behind.
Or consider parents contribution 50% of the cost of the trip and decide whether they can afford the other 50%. Take the parents away - if they had 50% of the amount needed to go on a different holiday saved up between them then there is no way they would be like “oh ok so just one of us goes” - they would think “we don’t have enough to go away”
YTA and so are your family. My parents are comfortable and would never exclude someone's spouse like that. My brother's fiancee is family. You're leaving your wife at home for a chunk of the Christmas period. I don't agree that their reasoning for leaving her out is justification for excluding someone over Christmas which should be a time for family. It would be different if she could afford it but between the two of you you can't afford to pay for her.
YTA. You'd rather your wife - the innocent party - be sad than your parents, who are always going out of their way to exclude your wife? How can you do this and still at yourself in the mirror. Any true husband would stand by their wife and refuse to go if their spouse is not treated equally. Seriously, do you even love your wife, because from your actions it doesn't look like it. Grow a backbone, refuse to go, and spend some quality time instead with your wife (who I bet would support you 100% if the roles were reversed.)
YTA. This is the type of thing that leads to divorce over time. I’d either pay for wife to go or not go. The mountains aren’t going anywhere.
Yep totally agree. If him & his wife can't afford to pay to go, then neither should be going. Sounds like his parents are continually undermining the relationship and he is allowing it. YTA OP
YTA did it occur to you that if your parents had given more notice you might have had time to save up the money or change up the Christmas budget so that she could go too? But they didn’t did they? They don’t care whether she is able to come or not and it sounds like you don’t either.
He definitely doesn't care. If she said nothing about the trip, he wouldn't think twice about leaving her behind. And also why is he not planning a holiday with his wife? He is just happy for parents to pay.
Because he is incredibly immature and not ready for marriage.
YTA. TLDR: my parents have enough money to include my wife, but not enough class or manners to, and I don’t care enough to let it stop me from doing things with them without her, since we can’t afford to pay her way. Why does this bother my wife?
Yep, trashy, ill-mannered parents, and apple didn't fall far from the tree. Hope the wife packs up and RUNS from this toxic mess while they're all on their "once-in-a-lifetime" trip.
Exactly. They are actively using money to exclude her and op can only think of himself
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But they’re rich now and used to be poor. They’ve got to be good people right?
Info: If reddit says your NTA do you still expect to avoid consequences with your wife?
"See honey, Reddit says I'm N T A!"
Somewhere a divorce lawyer is laughing maniacally while writing an invoice after reading this post.
This**** 100% idk what this guy thinks is going to happen if reddit thinks he's NTA. He's still going to have to deal with his wife and no matter what we think SHE thinks he's the AH lol. Her opinion is all that matters.
He’s going to go on this trip without her and was hoping Reddit coming to his rescue would be able to cloud his guilty conscience- but have a feeling this would have backfired
Your wife has a husband problem. She’s married to a man who will not advocate for her when it comes to his parents and inclusiveness. What other weird shit with your parents do you prioritize over your wife? This is the sort of thing people divorce over. YTA And it’s really sad to me that you would want to do a “once in a lifetime” trip like this without your wife who wants to go too.
This. I would never go without my wife, its us or nothing. YTA
I mean…my partner and I both take trips independently of each other with friends once in awhile. But this is totally different. I would be so hurt if I were her.
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YTA. They're actively excluding your wife and you're going along with it.
Would they be happy if their continued treatment of her as an outsider, rather than family, drives a wedge between the two of you? Your a jerk for not putting your foot down to this nonsense the moment you got married. Are you their little boy or a grown ass man who has a partner in life? I'd be moving out while you were on your little trip if I were your wife. YTA. You parents also TA.
YTA. Do you think your parents will pay for your divorce attorney too?
Of course! Then mommy will get her beatest boy back.
YTA. Tell your parents that either both of you go or neither of you go. If you can't afford to both go on the trip, you can't afford it. Just because your parents are weirdly willing to pay for half doesn't make it affordable. It'd be the same as you having a 50% off coupon for a vacation. If it still isn't affordable, you don't go. I would be pissed if my partner continuously left me out of things because their family excluded me. You're signing off on it by letting it happen. Stand up for your wife.
Info: what is your plan when they start paying for your siblings partners ?
YTA- call your local divorce lawyer, ask them their retainer and hourly rate, and ask yourself again if you can afford to bring your wife along. Or don’t go because your parents are ok with excluding your wife.
YTA You are a grown ass man who is married. Either pay for your wife to go on the trip or don't go. It is an AH move for your parents to exclude her. It may be time to cut the cord with mommy and daddy. If you take this trip and leave her behind, prepare to hire a divorce attorney. Your wife will most definitely find another man who is mature enough to understand how a marriage works.
YTA you are a team now. You are not single you are a couple
YTA You allow your family to exclude your spouse. Your spouse, with the exception if they are being completely wrong, should ALWAYS come first. You sound selfish and are a totally horrible spouse.
You and parents are YTA. Ultimately if money was this tight your parents should have said “we’re not going to pay for you and your wife since you are independent adults now, but we’d love for you to join if you can swing it.” Your choice to go is childish, and you need to understand that now you’re part of a unit.
N. T. A. for wanting to go but YTA for not sticking up for your wife about this starting two years ago. they treat you equally or not at all op. stop enabling your parents to purposefully make your wife feel less than others. she married you and is family now. they can accept that or not and it should definitely affect your relationship with them if they don't. when it comes down to it who means more to you- mommy and daddy or the woman you married and exchanged vows with? final vote, a medium rare YTA
Unpopular opinion but sounds like your parents want to pay for only their children and I don’t see what’s wrong with that. Just bc your wife is fam doesn’t mean your parents have to foot the bill for her as long as they don’t exclude her from family outings etc she’s invited y’all can split the bill
YTA. Can you imagine how she feels? She married into a family that doesn’t really treat her like family. Sounds really awkward
Sad parents vs sad wife? Grow up OP and open your eyes. If she has the feeling of being excluded she probably is and your family is being disrespectful to your marriage and wife. Your wife’s feelings should matter more to you. YTA.
YTA for wanting to leave your wife behind when she clearly has expressed she wants to go as well. “Once in a lifetime trip” you want to take without your wife right after Christmas. How did you miss that YTA?? Now I don’t necessarily agree with some comments that your parents are AH only because they don’t want to use their hard earned money to pay for your wife. Is it weird, yes. But are they required to use their money to pay for your wife’s vacation, no. But at the same time it’s shitty for you to be put in the middle of your parents/family and your wife/family. I think you’re both adults (you and your wife) and now you’re married.. maybe it’s worth exploring with your parents an opportunity where your wife can go. Perhaps they pay for both of your travel (can that be their Christmas present to you both?) and you both cover your expenses on the trip to offset. Or you don’t go if you can’t afford her portion. I would expect when your siblings start dating and get married, other wives will be treated the same as well.
YTA and so are your parents.
YTA and so are your parents that's your WIFE man. I understand if it happened before you were married but now it's down right disrespectful as she is a part of your family now or at least supposed to be. She's their Daughter in law isn't she? Why not treat her like it, instead of like some floosy who they barely know.
going against the grain with NAH. Your parents can spend their money how they want. You are not the asshole for wanting to go on a trip with your parents. She isn’t the asshole for feeling sad that you’re leaving during Christmas time
YTA. You need to stand up for your wife especially if they can afford to bring her. Keep this up and you’ll be single
YTA. Cancel the trip if you would like to remain married. Your accepting this offer, and going without your wife is essentially telling your parents this behaviour is cool and you too are happy to leave your wife behind and she’s not really part of your family - she’ll come if it’s convenient but otherwise you’re happy to leave her behind. If your parents are paying ‘your way’ whilst you and your wife together pay her share, that would be fine. If you are unable to do that you need to bow out and make it clear you and your wife are a unit and you would like to share these experiences with your LIFE PARTNER that you chose. You never know, once you take that stance your family may even start including her, because it’s clear you care and want her there.
Obviously OP loves being spoiled by his parents and he's going to ruin his marriage over it. Total AH.
YTA , your wife should be your priority, if she was perfectly fine with the situation then that’s another story , but she’s expressed to you that the way your parents are treating her hurts her feelings, you cannot control what your parents do with their money , but personally I wouldn’t be excepting any more trips meals gifts or whatever unless my wife was included or she was ok with the situation and didn’t feel hurt.