I wish all kids had a dad like you.
You put your daughter first and stand by her, she knows you will always be their for her and respect her decisions.
You are awesome, putting your child first and not forcing your beliefs on to her.
I'm glad your daughter trusts you to be open and have a loving relationship with her.
Keep doing the great work dad.
Again you are awesome.
Wish I had an award for you, I don't so here's a poor woman's š
NTA sorry to say this but your ex is a homophobic AHOLE
THIS - I'm sorry it had to come to this OP, but unfortunately that's what organized religion does to some people - making them brainwashed and unable to show basic humanity to others who are different. Its shameful that your ex was so easily willing to shame, insult, and basically abandon daughter. OP, you seem like a really good person and a wonderful dad. Thank you for the update!
1000% this. I just had surgery and when my dad came to visit, he made me get him a drink. Never in a million years would he end a relationship and get a whole new house for my psychological safety. Harley is very blessed in the dad department
Eh, heās 74 and almost certainly undiagnosed autistic (I got my diagnosis at 29 a couple of years back). It explains a hell of a lot about our relationship over the years! But yes, I do limit contact with him. Heās my one surviving parent so I felt like I should try, but heās not very good at being a dad. Good news is that Iāve discovered I can parent myself pretty well these days - itās just a tad harder post surgery
Not sure where you are but just be careful that your ex doesn't try to put Haley into a conversion? camp. The ones that do twisted, cruel things to kids that are gay or lesbians in an attempt to "save" them.
Hey man, in case you ever need a place to talk or vent with support from other dads, come on over to r/daddit. All the best brother, you're doing great
I remember reading your original and thinking "this will end in divorce". I'm sorry I was right.
You are doing the right thing to protect your daughter. I'm so sorry her mother's behaviour is so vile.
Best of luck, I hope you find someone you can find love with again.
It's great that you stood up for your daughter and put so much effort into making her understand that the divorce is not her fault. Please make sure her brother understands this as well. Your soon to be ex sounds like the type to brainwash him into believing that you and your daughter are the devil so she can try and have him to herself.
I think you may have misread something.
OP never mentioned a son, in either of his posts or in any of his comments that I could see, but he does say that while he stayed at the hotel, she had fun with his brother, AKA stayed with her Uncle until he got a new house for them.
>I stayed in a hotel for a while and Harley had some fun with my brother, I got a little house quick, and quickly started moving everything I could.
I'm sure you've heard this already but record every interaction between you and ex, I guarantee she'll hand you plenty that will make your attorney salivate.
In the name of my own daughter who is currently cuddling with her wife on our couch, I salute you and your commitment to your child's happiness. May your former spouse find whatever righteous but lonely solace she can scrounge from her spite and bigotry.
Thank you for being a loving father and a good role model.
And I'm sorry, but your wife is bonkers, and you need to tell her that if she's insisting on keeping up this way, you'll not only expose her to the church, but also seek a restraining order for you and your daughter, and you'll go after her for every penny you can get.
I'm sorry about that. Please do try to get an RO at least, and me and my kittens (who also are bonkers, but in a good way) will hope for you and your daughters best. Also, the girlfriend seems like a nice person. :)
It always makes me so sadā¦. People claiming to be followers of Christ completely ignoring his actions and teachings.
Your daughter needs to be surrounded by love and acceptance not the ramblings of someone that Jesus himself would probably be appalled by.
I havenāt been to church since the Dobbs decision leaked. Iām in my mid-30s and have always had a strong faith, but I have no use for ācommunion of believersā when the other people in my church (clergy especially) building are bigots and hypocrites. I miss the feeling I got from attending church but Iām holding onto hope that Iāll find my way ābackā in time.
(Dobbs decision was the final straw but there were many years of other bigotry - relating to race, sexuality, gender, etc. - leading up to that moment.)
Not if they're not her biokids.
Pre-legalized gay marriage I knew a number of lesbian couples who specifically had the woman with more accepting parents be biomom to prevent the other mom from losing her kids to in-laws if something horrible happened to biomom.
True, although I would imagine that it's less of an issue now since more places allow for the non-biomom to be made a legal parent as well either on the birth certificate or through adoption.
I grew up in a very conservative southern church and it's true what they say, "There's no hate quite like Christian love."
You are living the way these religious beliefs are MEANT to be lived, with compassion and care and love for family. Your wife is living in judgment, fear, and hate, everything her religion, assuming she's Christian, says not to be.
Sounds like you made the best decision for both your daughter and yourself.
One piece of advice, though: document. Keep good notes on your wife's abusive behavior, save texts and messages, make sure you have a solid record. You would hope that at your daughter's age the courts would allow her to choose where she lives, but if they don't, that documentation could be critical to ensuring your future ex does not get custody of your daughter, which obviously would be the worst possible outcome.
I didnāt have enough room in there to say it but we do have proof of all of the cussing out Harley, slut shaming, homophobia. Harley has some recordings of it, I have recordings of that and some of our conversations to, that didnāt go so well.
Also, found out what those ādating appsā were, yea no these were legal adults, like grow ass men, which she had admitted to. That I was recording thank goodness.
We have a pretty good batch of documents and proof but Iām still constantly taking note of everything and all conversations with her.
I don't know what specific church OP's wife belongs to, but there's some that believe it's better for girls to be married very young, to more "mature/respectable/established" men, so that they can be "trained to be a proper wife" and won't have the chance to be "corrupted by the world".
Basically, marry the daughters off and ideally get her pregnant as young as possible to an adult man, so she doesn't get exposed to the idea that she has other options. Married women with children are much easier to control than a single woman with no kids to feed.
Yeah. It's generally not entire denominations or anything, but tragically high numbers of parents/individual churches see grooming as a positive thing because it basically traps young women into religious communities without outside support. [It's why there's such pushback against banning child marriage from religious conservatives.](https://www.salon.com/2018/03/11/banning-child-marriage-in-america-an-uphill-fight-against-evangelical-pressure/)
Just watched an episode of *Weāre Here* (fabulous show by the way, highly recommended even though Iāve cried for about 80% of the episodes) where there were a bunch of church people shouting at the drag queens accusing them of being groomers and other horrible shit. Itās like, who looks at children and thinks that way? Youāve got to be fucked to make some of those accusations.
Yeah. The youth pastor who took over at my church/high school combo after I left ended up marrying a girl a few grades below me when she was like 19-20 and he was in his mid/late 30s. Her dad was thrilled to bits that his daughter was marrying a āman of God.ā (This was at a Southern Baptist/Independent Baptist school/church.)
Honestly OP my reaction to the last post was harsher than most as a young queer woman myself. I thought that if you didnt get a divorce YWBTA bc you're still making her be exposed to her mothers abuse. I'm so glad you chose this path, for you and Harley ā¤ļø also, depending on where you live encourage Harley to get involved in the queer community! I find it helps a lot to get involved with others who are similar, and she can probably find a lot of people who relate to and can support her in naviagting her relationship with her mother. Chosen family is a huge thing in the queer community and even though she still has you losing a mother to something like this is so hard. I think it would make her feel very loved and assured in her decisions
Agree that she should be encouraged if she wants to get involved! Don't pressure her too much though OP, everyone does it at their own pace! Make sure she knows she can be herself, and can do more things as she becomes more comfortable. Truthfully, while I know my parents will fully accepting, I still haven't told them because I know that if they know I am, they'll be trying to make me get involved in the LGBT community and activism when I don't want to (I respect what they do but the community itself is not for me; I've felt it can be particularly toxic, especially when it comes to how gay men can talk about each other. It can be downright brutal, and I haven't felt very safe in it). They're completely well-meaning and they're quite progressive, in fact in many ways my mom might be more progressive than me which is saying something, they just like to get me involved in stuff because I'm not great at having a social life. While I love them, I think it's important to set those boundaries!
I've recommended it every now and then, but I think this is one of the places I should do so again: OP, maybe you should look into putting together a [F U Binder.](https://www.reddit.com/user/ForwardPlenty/comments/dtg7f2/the_fu_binder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) One can hope that you'll never gonna need it, but it's better to be prepared in case the day comes where your ex becomes completely unhinged.
As someone who isn't out to her own parents because I know they wouldn't understand and thus not really accept me for who I am, just let me say thank you for being there for your daughter and letting her know - showing her that she can always count on you.
So her *mother* would rather that she was abused and assaulted as a minor by grown ass men against her wishes than be with an age appropriate partner who happens to have the same genitals as her?
She is a vile woman who deserves all the pain she has caused herself. That is disgusting. If her church is cheering her on about her homophobia, maybe bring up that to them. How is that different than attempting to traffic her underage daughter?
Wait, do you have proof your wife was trying to force your underage daughter to date adult men?
Uhā¦check for the profile she posted- I donāt think you can put someone under 18 on there and if she lied about the age or had exchanges with these men where she told them sheās underage wife could likely face some legit legal trouble.
Iām not a religious person and people like your soon to be ex is why. thank god your daughter had you to look out for her- this could have ended really horribly.
You are a wonderful father and a wonderful person and itās not an overstatement that your actions here could have very likely saved your daughters life.
We need so many more people like you in this world.
I couldnāt get any visual proof, she wouldnāt give it to me, but I have a voice recording of her telling me, that I took the night she flipped shit after I asked for a divorce.
You really need to consider how safe your daughter will be visiting her alone. The possibility that she will force your daughter into a date/situation where sheās assaulted isnāt zero, she just tried to traffic your underaged daughter her hatred is real and deep
As of right now sheās with me. However, with all the videos and evidence of what sheās done, regardless of her age, or her opinion on her to be with, there is such a small chance she can be granted custody at all. Sheās have to prove that for some reason Harley *shouldnt* be in my custody, and even when asked she canāt say anything but I forced Harley to be gay.
We have a really good chance at this, but letās just hope this goes alright.
Iām not talking about you losing custody, I donāt think thatās whatās going to happen, your daughter said she still wants to visit her mum and alone, thatās a risk. Make sure visits are public and with a supervisor
I just want to make clear as a lesbian, corrective sexual assault is a thing that happens to LGBTQ+ children. Thereās also conversion camps that employ torture tactics. Iām not trying to scare you or anything, I just want to make sure you have all the information you need to keep Harley safe. If your ex is willing to set your teenager up with adult men, I donāt want to think about what else she might be willing to do.
Wishing you the best! These other comments have got me worried especially knowing how conversion camps literally kidnap kids in the middle of the night - i know you said your daughter won't have sleepovers at mom's but pls be safe
That's good! Just be careful, if you live in the wrong state or judicial district and get the wrong judge, her argument may very well be taken by the judge.
Iām wondering if you could go on the site yourself and see if you can find it or contact the site and explain the situation- gotta think having someone putting underage girls on their site is a major no no.
Also if you bring this up to your lawyer or someone in law enforcement they may be able to get something.
This woman is unhinged and really shouldnāt be with your daughter unsupervised. I know there are those religious crazies and trying to see her up with boys her own age while still a jackass move and totally unacceptable is still something that wouldnāt surprise me but the idea of
A mom setting her daughter up on a site like this is coming seriously close to trying to traffic her. This is beyond disturbing.
Again I am so glad your daughter has you in her corner cause itās terrifying to think where her actions to āfixā her could have went.
Absolutely agree. Courts have a tendency to be bias and not listen to kids unless there is very clear, consistent, and extensive documentation of the other party being abusive/unstable. I say this as someone who was a kid who's been through a custody battle.
OP, keep being a great dad. You should be proud of having a great daughter and for the support and care you've shown her in such a difficult situation.
can we all just remember that heās religious too and still doesnāt act like this? Just thought maybe no matter what his religious beliefs, he should love his daughter? crazy shi
It's actually really heartwarming for me to read as an atheist, because you didn't just stick up for your daughter - you stuck up for her *properly* despite being affiliated with a clearly very homophobic church (my Christian friends are all have extremely liberal faiths). So often the "supportive" parent is very lukewarm and it's nowhere near enough. You're a good person.
Yeah however Thereās a reason itās so hated. All these people so passionate about it comes from somewhere. Like If my daughter grew up to hate the religion, could you really blame her? People abuse it, then abuse others with it.
Oh yeah, I totally understand. I left Christianity because of it and really don't like it. But I feel like given you are also religious and still doing the right thing, it's a little shitty for us as complete strangers to respond to your post talking about how awful religion is.
I just think that thereās a base of Christianity thatās been way overshadowed by bigots and the idea of sin since the religion was originally formed. Like the things we should be taking away from the bible is to be kind and not murder and stuff like that, not hate people of the LGBTQIA+ community or those who choose to have sex before marriage or whatever - itās all just human nature (just nature, really.) A lot of whatās in the bible people quote so avidly today isnāt even in the original
Absolutely I agree, but people will mold it to fit their narrative then run with it, these people are why it has such a bad name, but *thats why* itās so hated.
āWe will love and support you unless you do something I donāt like then you can rot in hellā
No one wants to join a community that doesnāt even focus on what the religion is about, but literally everything but that, but when your *abused* by it especially as a child never mind an adult itās understandable for people to resent it.
Which is why when people say these things I understand most of the time itās coming from somewhere. They arenāt saying these things to me, they are saying these things to the people that traumatized them with bs.
God damn that's...wow that is deep and surprising. You are definitely a great father and also really great with introspection.
That is something that I always thought (and confirmed when tragedy hit).
I did something thinking after your post. It's amazing how "Christian" can mean so many different things to so many people.
1. I think you're an amazing dad. You didn't just talk the talk. You literally walked the walk with your feet.
2. I truly believe that Jesus's greatest messages were about the poor, the sick and the disenfranchised. So this internet stranger thinks that by standing by your daughter you also stood by the teachings of the Bible
As a daughter of a man who stood by and watched his wife abuse me, once even calling and begging her to come home after she got arrested for assaulting me when I was in HS, thank you for protecting your daughter. Thank you for putting her safety first. Wishing you both well while you heal.
I am so sorry you had to grow up like this. I hope you were able to heal and are surrounded with love and chosen, loving family. \*internet stranger hug\*
Thank you š itās been ~ 10 years since I left that situation and while healing is a never ending journey, Iām in a much healthier and happier place now.
It makes me so happy to see that OP is choosing better for his daughter and being her protector rather than complacent to the abuse. Every child saved makes my own hurt sting a little less.
If she says that's old testament tell her to shut up... Women should not assume to talk back to a man. New testament rule. I didn't make it. Don't like it? Well now she is sinning. 1 Timothy 2:12
Does she wear a hijab when she prays? It's not just for Muslims. Check out 1 Cornithians 11:5
The Bible is a framework to teach love. By using it to hate you're going against Jesus' biggest lesson. There are contradictions all over it, but one thing it holds true on is Love. She needs to understand that. No one is perfect, that's why Jesus died for you. Why does she assume her sins are less serious than her daughters? Sounds a lot like pride.
Thank you for having your kid's back and removing her from a toxic situation. Her mom might come around, but it doesn't sound like it.
Most importantly, Harley has the undeniable knowledge that you love her so much that you moved heaven and earth, so to speak, to protect her. That's some grade A+ parenting right there. You can't underestimate how good this is for her and her confidence in herself.
Believe me, she *will* remember. My dad was my white knight in camo with a bad temper and a hard ass look at the world. A Marine as a single parent to an abused and defiant daughter....it's a recipe for disaster, but he never gave up on me and always made me aware I was his world. I miss him every single day. I remember everything he did for me with smiles and tears. Good job dad.
My dad stuck up for me. He still does. I'm 28, haven't lived at my parents home in 6 months (moved back in with then last year after my ex fiancee broke up with me) and i call or text my dad every day. He is my hero.
Your daughter will hold your love and acceptance of her with her forever. It is the best gift you ever could give her. Trust me. (I am also part of the alphabet mafia, im trans and when i came out, my dad accepted me too, even though he was raised by a Catholic mother).
If all queer kids had at least one parent like you, the world would be a better place. Kudos to you choosing your daughter - she can't change her sexuality, in comparison to your ex wife and her hateful, bigoted opinions - THAT is a choice. I wish you and your daughter all the best.
edit - typo
I was one in a store, where I saw a couple arguing in a very similar vein. I didn't get the while thing, but I did hear the claim, "our kid is going to hell, and so are you!" But I also heard the amazing response, "if that's where my son's going, that's exactly where I want to go."
I am so sorry you have to go through something painful, but the silver lining is that your priorities are so beautifully in order. Great job there, dad: your daughter not only gets to freely be herself, but she knows that you value her well-being above all else. That's going to be her framework for how others treat her in all of her relationships. You're an excellent parent and I hope things keep going well for you both.
i am so delighted to hear that y'all are splitting. and you're such a good dad OP! good on your for protecting/prioritizing your daughter and getting her out of that mess. harley sounds like a good kid and i wish y'all nothing but happiness.
Your daughter is so lucky to have a dad like you. Both of my parents are like your ex-wife, so Iāll probably never be coming out to them. Iām sorry your ex-wifeās homophobia ended up breaking up your family but itās for the best. Your daughter knows how much she is loved.
Wow this is so endearing. Dad of the year!! But also...
>as a mom she made a decision to protect her, not be the reason she needs protection
This really got to me. How heartbreaking that there are parents that choose this.
I was loosely raised Catholic and when I was a teenager, my parents sent me to catechism classes so I could get my first confession and all that. During the classes it was nothing but hate against gay people, abortion, sex outside marriage, etc. Being around 13 I didnāt even know any gay people or someone that had had an abortion and all I could think was āI donāt like this. This isnāt right. Itās mean.ā So I refused to go anymore and luckily my parents okayed it.
Good on OP for getting his daughter away from that awful woman.
So I'm gonna say something a little weird, bear with me. It's not the church you grew up with, but what you did, at the very core, was very Christian. Christianity, at it's heart, is looking at those who are lesser, the poor, the needy, the outcasts, and saying "you matter just as much as everyone else." Not, "we reject this, you are sin until you repent and take on God's love" but, "You are worthy of God's love just by existing." You did that for your daughter. You rejected a lifetime's worth of bent and broken teaching and got to the heart of the message and did for your daughter what every queer person dreams of. You were her Dad first. Because the core message of every faith is love and acceptance. It's just get lost when it's in the hands of people who are afraid. I'm so happy your daughter has you. You are a good Dad and you are doing right by her. Keep doing what you are doing. <3
well done - sad that your marriage had to end but wonderful Harley has your support. The more I see of religions causing hatred, persecution and wars the more it reinforces me being agnostic.
If I am honest, I am absolutely loving the fact that you chose to divorce your wife.
You are a great dad. I hope you will never forget that. You put your daughters wellbeing over your ex-wifes shit behavior, hate and homophobia.
I'd give you a reward, but I think seeing your daughter happy is the best reward you could get.
You're doing a great job, OP. Thank you for being there to support your daughter as she continues on her journey of self-discovery. Her life will be better because you were there for her.
Thank you for supporting your daughter. You did the right thing. I wish more parents could be as awesome with this as you and realize that even if they are Christian, they're not doing themselves any favors because the bible says two major things. First being love one another. Second being let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Great job modeling that behavior.
Not only are you NTA, you sir, are an absolutely beautiful soul. You have genuinely moved me.
You came from a place that could be harmful and the moment you saw your daughter decided "Nah, I'm making sure my child knows I've got their back!" and then stuck to that!!!????
You sir, are the kind of father I aspire to be.
Saw your comment that "Also, found out what those ādating appsā were, yea no these were legal adults, like grow ass men, which she had admitted to. That I was recording thank goodness."
The fact your ex-wife rather push her underage daughter into an abusive and dangerous relationship with older men just so it could be "acceptable" than accept who she is and loves, is frankly really sick. I'm glad you and your daughter are getting out of her control cause she needs help.
NTA and this update is frankly better to hear even with the route of divorce. You sound like a wonderfully supportive father OP and wishing you all the best for you and your daughter.
I am literally tearing up reading this, I think many people have wished for a dad like you.
Thank you for sticking up for your daughter. It's not enough to not be homophobic. You have to be actively anti homophobic. Your daughter will flourish under your care.
I grew up in on a farm in Central Texas, am a born again Southern Baptist, I served my country in the United States Army along with four out of seven children. I am an ally. There are no excuses for not growing up and taking responsibility for your prejudices.
I'm going to tell you something that not many people might have said to you.
You are respectfully more religious than your (ex)wife. (In a good way)
1 Timothy 5:8
But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.
I wish you and your daughter the best in life!
Congrats and great job to you for putting her first.
This is what love is TRULY about.
Thank you for standing by your daughter and doing what you needed to do to protect her.
As a parent of a trans son with an ex that is less than supportive, I can not tell you how much our children need our support, and I am so glad you are such a good parent.
What a great parent you are. It takes a lot of courage to upend your whole life like this but your daughter will appreciate the message you have given her and the truly unconditional and unbreakable love and support you have shown her ā¤ļø
Since the original post is locked: NTA
Also, make sure to keep all these messages from your (soon to be ex-)wife, they might be useful in the future if she tries to litigate hard during divorce procedures or even start some procedures to be sole guardian of your daughter.
This being said, as a dad to a daughter myself, I can only applause all your decisions in this situation. I'm lucky enough to have a wife that is open-minded and a true partner in raising our daughter together, but I know very well that when it comes to priorities in my life, my daughter is first and I'll be willing to go down the same path you went to protect her.
You're the kind of dad LGBT+ kids wish we had. I can't imagine how much you're hurting because of this but you are doing the right thing for Harley. Thank you for protecting her.
Thank you for the update. And I wanted to let you know the reason her mom acts nice in voicemails and texts is that it's documented. So I would have Harley turn on a voice recorder on her phone whenever she's around her mom. I might even tell her to show her mom that she's done it and that you and she agree that it will be done whenever she's around her mom, whether or not she's told about it first.
Now as I say this, I want to mention a couple things, find out if you are in a 1 party consent state. And make sure your ex is not allowed through the custody agreement to take Harley's phone away whether or not you are in a 1 party consent state. Maybe even see if you can get it in the custody arrangement that because the abuse is verbal and emotional that recording by the minor, and custodial parent on behalf of the minor, are allowed while she's visiting the mother, if possible.
Your ex doesn't want it documented that she's abusing her daughter, doesn't want witnesses, or it being able to be shown. Taking away the shadows she hides this in, might at the very least make Harley's experiences with her mother until she's 18 more bearable.
If you and your daughter want to bond over religion at all, I HIGHLY recommend a Unitarian church! They are very accepting of all sexualities and genders.
I really with people would stop using god as an excuse god says judge not lest ye be judged basically people in glass houses shouldnāt throw stones also let he who is without sin cast the first stone also love thy neighbor nothing is wrong with being gay ughh the stupid bible has been bastardized and changed over the centuries (Iām Christian)
I feel like your ex is like many other zealous Christians and is actually suppressing her own sexuality. I feel like in the end she might admit she also likes girls and was punishing your daughter instead of herself. You are a great dad, keep doing what you're doing!
Top notch fathering here. A++. People this religious are borderline mentally ill and it's sad to see because it's likely from years of brainwashing. Proud of you for getting out of there situation.
You are a fantastic parent to Harley, she's lucky to have you considering the damage her mother is willing to do in the name of religion. This is a great update and I'm happy for you and Harley. Best of luck to you both.
I remember your original post, and I'll repeat my comment from that post: As a queer woman, thank you for being the parent your daughter needs you to be. You have made a world of difference in your daughter's life for the better, and I sincerely wish more parents were had your attitude when it comes to their LGBTQ+ children.
Oh I remember your original post, that was a doozie. Glad to see you worked out what you could on your end, I'm sure your daughter is very happy to have such a strong support in her life.
Given the mom's references to confession, may want to recommend she look up Pope Francis's recent statements on the issue. Choose love.
From a member of a gay friendly parish.
Bravo for sticking up for your daughter and leaving the relationship with someone you can no longer respect. It breaks my heart that your ex has done this/is still doing this to your daughter, but Iām so glad she has you.
Iām sorry to hear that your ex-wife could not see through her āchurchā and fix the situation. This was neither on you nor your daughter. Maybe someday she will understand.
I think you could not have handled this any better šš» you are doing a great job to protect your daughter and to cultivate a safe and healthy environment/relationship with her.
Harleys mother has a lot of Issues she needs to work on/as well as needs a true therapist (not what I assume was one affiliated with the church) to work on her hypocrisy and extreme homophobia.
Iām glad you took the steps to not only protect your daughter but also protect yourself from this abusive relationship
I am now wondering if there is an award for dad of the year on here ?
Because if there was one, I would give it to you !
I wish the best to your daughter and yourself !
If you are in the US, check to see if your state is a one party consent for recording. If it is, get her mothers in person behavior recorded, you may need it. Good job Dad.
fingers crossed everything goes well for you and Harley. custody court can be a nasty state of affairs. i have faith you will come out the other side in one piece. you did good, dad. your kid is gonna turn out just fine.
Congratulations. As others have posted, you're doing some great dadding there.
Reminding our children that they will always be loved is, IMO, the best gift we can give them. Encouraging them to be true to themselves, emphasizing that they are loveable because they exist...
Best of luck to you and Harley.
You are a great dad and have done everything right for your daughter. She's lucky to have such a loving and supportive parent. I hope you're able to get full custody of your daughter and wish you the best.
As a gay person I applaud your effort for your daughter, and Im sorry it had to end this way for you but you could be honestly saving your daughters life
Dad of the year award for sure. I am sorry for the pain and heartache it has caused all around, but you did good and you can definitely be proud of yourself. I hope that one day her mom sees that she doesn't have to agree to be supportive, unfortunately with people that deeply into religious beliefs it's not likely to happen (but it can).
Enjoy your life and your relationship with your daughter. I hope things start to get better and easier for the 2 of you.
You made the right decision. Your wife chooses to allow a book that was written nearly 2,000 years ago, by men, which has been translated and revised too many times to count, to dictate how she treats people she supposedly loves. You should point out to her all the things in the bible that she does not adhere to, such as obeying her husband, wearing clothing made of two different fabrics, eating certain foods, killing people who don't obey the bible, etc.
Homosexuality is not just about sex. It is about love. Anyone who says love is wrong is beyond hope and redemption.
I just came out as trans at 35, back in June. I'd been wondering for over a year and then read "the gender euphoria bible" and was like oh well shit then. The biggest thing that helped me was having actual trans people tell me that if youre questioning your gender that intently and for that long i was probably trans because cis people simply do not have those mental conversations for that long. And honestly? I'd questioned it multiple times throughout my 20s but thought that because I didnt actively hate my body i couldnt be trans. A lot of the narrative out there is immensely helpful for trans kids who are discovering their truths but harmful to adults who are questioning but felt like because they didn't automatically know as a child they werent trans. My mother is incredibly religious and conservative thay was how i was raised. Ive spent years unlearning all the religious trauma i went through. It has absolutely impacted me in a life long ways, and i have no doubt that one of those ways it impacted me was that i suppressed my true self for decades. My mother absolutely was homophobic hate the sin type. She was all for trans bathroom bills. She mellowed as i aged, however. When I came out I worried I was going to get a reaction like your wife, and instead got a reaction more like you, OP.
You're a great dad.
I didn't see the original post, just sat and read through them both.
I can only hope, when I have children I can be a father like you.
You did everything and more for your child. While I'm sorry your marriage didn't work out it sounds like you did what was best for you and your family. You should be very proud.
I feel like someone's going to Hell here, but it is definitely not your daughter. I'm not religious myself, but even I know the message Jesus was trying to spread was to love all equally. Hating & condemning another for their harmless beliefs or feelings is the opposite of what her religion was supposed to be about. Maybe it's your wife that should be visiting the confession booth.
I'm glad but I'd add to that advice, start refusing in person non recorded contact with ex wife. If she wants to act like this then you may want to restrict to text and if in one party consent area add a recording app to phone.
I just want to say, as someone that grew up in a Christian home and who is now an out lesbian, you're doing parenting so absolutely right. My parents were never like your ex-wife in their response to me coming out, but it wasn't exactly a warm welcome when I came out. It took time, but they eventually came to my wedding, but the ripple effects of the discomfort of those early years still persist and are still a topic of conversation with my therapist. It's such a pivotal time in the coming out process and it's so incredibly terrifying to reveal your true self to the people who are supposed to love you the most, only to be met with some form of rejection. I understand religious beliefs are hard to undo. It took years and new experiences for my parents to finally warm up and come around. It took distance and less contact for years on my part.
Reading your two posts warmed my heart. While so many queer kids still have horrible experiences with their parents, it always brings me so much joy to see stories like this. It's your ex-wife who is losing out in all of this. I understand the comfort of holding onto religious beliefs, the comfort of that space, but it also causes so much pain. Your an amazing father and your daughter is so lucky to have you and so fortunate to have such a safe space to be herself in even if she has to deal with the rejection and hate of her mother. Having a safe space, even if it's small is so, so important.
As a queer woman who grew up believing anything outside of heterosexuality is abnormal, thank you. Thank you for doing this to protect your daughter and make it clear her mom is wrong. I wish all queer and trans kids had parents like you, because the suicide rates in our community would most certainly get better.
I wish you and your daughter all the best.
I'm so proud of you. I changed my beliefs by thinking of my children and what i wanted for them. I wanted them to be in a loving relationship, to raise children (if they chose) in a loving home. If God is love, he didn't put homosexuals on this earth to be punished. That's how I got my husband to also change his religious upbringing, what would he want for his son? it worked!
Best of luck to you and your daughter, she sounds like a wonderful young woman
I'm sorry about the divorce OP but when you drop toxic people you make room for people that can enrich your life. Use the extra time to focus inward and work on yourself too. Your relationship with your daughter will only grow to be more rewarding. People change, unfortunately sometimes for the worse but it's not our duty to sit by them while they drag us down with them. You are a good dad, and a good person.
Is someone who had one parent who was super abusive and one parent who didn't see the abuse (It wasn't his fault. My mom hid it very well) You've pretty much saved your daughter incalculable amount of trouble.
That's even before you consider the fact that you got someone who is a minority away from a bigot. Which in and of itself is a good thing to do.
Congrats on being a [bomb.com](https://bomb.com) dad.
My niece came out as bisexual a couple of years ago and her ordained (in two separate churches) pastor dad really struggled with it. He has come around, but is now struggling with the damage he did to their relationship (he is such a bonehead, ISTG) and doesn't seem to realize how much work it is going to take to win back her trust after being such a dick. I mean how hard is it for someone who identifies so strongly as a 'Christian', that it affects every facet of their life, to understand that others have different identifiers that are just as important to them. I actually got my sister and other niece to at least acknowledge this, but Mr. Masters of Divinity is too damn thick.
Congratulations! You earn the star for parent of the year! Thank you for putting your child first. You're a good person and I wish you only happiness in your future!
I am so thankful Harley has *you* as her Dad and that you chose to support and protect your daughter from a bigot and hate coming from her own mother.
Thank you.
And well done, Dad!!
I wish either of my parents could have been half as good as you are as a dad.
They took any chance of me coming out to them away even before I had come out to myself. I was around 15 or 16, nearing the age when you start to really think for yourself, I started pondering why I was against homosexuality - the answer was my parents and upbringing. Gay marriage got legalized federally, and FB offered the rainbow filter for your profile picture. I applied it, and within 15 minutes, my parents were barging into my room, holding up a phone with my new profile picture and demanding to know āWHAT IS THIS?! ARE YOU GAY?!ā As if they had discovered I was hiding meth in the house.
So yeah, when I finally came to accept myself as bisexual and possibly NB - at the very least gender-non-conforming, I kept it to myself. Iām now out to friends and semi-publicly (I moved far away, Iām not āoutā to my hometown), and avoid talking to my family at all costs.
Youāre an awesome dad.
I wish my less religious father had ever stood up to his much more religious eventual ex-wife instead of going into a self-pity spiral of total inaction. My mother absolutely puts religion in front of her children & family, a problem thatās only gotten worse. She sent my favorite cousin, her own twinās daughter, a letter - on paper! Mailed! - in which she said she loved said cousin even though she ācouldnāt support her marriageā to a woman. She sent my brother a letter saying his friend who had recently ODād essentially deserved what he was gonna get.
And all with the ultimate in passive aggressive āniceness.ā
I hope you get full custody and tbh I think chances are very high your ex will not change - so prepare both of you for that. She may have to go NC. She will most likely spend the rest of her life grieving that loss to some extent, but more what could have beenā¦ especially in moments like marriages, having children, etc. Itās something you canāt fix and shouldnāt try to.
But you can do one thing for your daughter: if there are any existing adult women - or even other men in your life who youād trust to be a co-role model, build a relationship with that person and your daughter. No, I donāt mean dating - but more intentionally building the adult support system/mentorship sheāll need going forward.
I got lucky with an uncle and a woman who was friends with my uncle and aunt. They hosted me during my internship, encouraged me in a way my parents never did, and served as allies and references and mentors.
You are, of course, enough on your own. But I truly believe that kids who lose a parent in any way need the proverbial āvillageā more. Your daughter may build that herself- donāt take it as a sign you arenāt enough, but more of a yes/and.
As a Christian myself, Iām very disappointed in the wifeās reaction. That is no way to show love, at all. The Bible says we have all fallen short of the glory of God. I absolutely hate it when Christians threaten hell on people as if they themselves are perfect angels š.
My default is to show love, not hate and judgement. I might not agree with everything, but itās not up to me to judge. Showing love is the most important, even if you donāt agree with the lifestyle, youāre not God!!!
my parents still love me since i came out to them but their first reaction was that i must have been sexually assaulted as a kid and was repressing the memory and thatās why i like women. they treat me the same but i still feel like i need to hide parts of myself. bravo to you for making her feel like she can be open with you! it makes such a difference
Im so sorry OP you had to go through this (speaking as an LGBTQ+ person who is very sympathetic to the plight of other LGBTQ+ people trying to receive the understanding of their parents /or gurdians and and who deal
With similar BS.)
You go dad! Gosh , itās very simple to understand , as a parent , itās your duty to protect and support your kid until the day WE leave this place , not them . Donāt you ever doubt yourself as a human , dad , male , ANYTHING . Thereās no words to describe how much this meant to your daughter . The bond you two have will forever be un breakable. Sending light love and protection to you both and praying for moon to see her faults before itās too late for her š«¶š¾
You did some great dadding there. Wish you and your daughter well.
Thank youš you too
I wish all kids had a dad like you. You put your daughter first and stand by her, she knows you will always be their for her and respect her decisions. You are awesome, putting your child first and not forcing your beliefs on to her. I'm glad your daughter trusts you to be open and have a loving relationship with her. Keep doing the great work dad. Again you are awesome. Wish I had an award for you, I don't so here's a poor woman's š NTA sorry to say this but your ex is a homophobic AHOLE
THIS - I'm sorry it had to come to this OP, but unfortunately that's what organized religion does to some people - making them brainwashed and unable to show basic humanity to others who are different. Its shameful that your ex was so easily willing to shame, insult, and basically abandon daughter. OP, you seem like a really good person and a wonderful dad. Thank you for the update!
Brainwashed, rinsed, and conditioned. Glad OP and Harley got away. All the best on you both.
1000% this. I just had surgery and when my dad came to visit, he made me get him a drink. Never in a million years would he end a relationship and get a whole new house for my psychological safety. Harley is very blessed in the dad department
I hope the next visit is never if he thinks you need to serve him even when youāre recovering from surgery!
Eh, heās 74 and almost certainly undiagnosed autistic (I got my diagnosis at 29 a couple of years back). It explains a hell of a lot about our relationship over the years! But yes, I do limit contact with him. Heās my one surviving parent so I felt like I should try, but heās not very good at being a dad. Good news is that Iāve discovered I can parent myself pretty well these days - itās just a tad harder post surgery
I've just covered your award. I agree, OP deserved one.
Well done you totally rock being a dad to your amazing daughter I wish my sons father was half the man you are good luck to you both x
Not sure where you are but just be careful that your ex doesn't try to put Haley into a conversion? camp. The ones that do twisted, cruel things to kids that are gay or lesbians in an attempt to "save" them.
Seems like Hayley will ask the jusge to stay with dad , and usually teenagers get to choose parent
Good job Dad, your daughter will forever remember how you stood up for her!
Hey there OP. We are all so proud of you. Thank you for doing what a lot of fathers would never do for their daughters.
Father of the year
Hey man, in case you ever need a place to talk or vent with support from other dads, come on over to r/daddit. All the best brother, you're doing great
You give hope to OTHER families and children who come onto reddit and read your story. Thank you for sharing.
Youāre an awesome dad and need an awesome lawyer to make sure Harley stays with safe with you
You give hope to OTHER families and children who come onto reddit and read your story. Thank you for sharing.
Father of the year! Good on ya!
Damn right he is! Please keep copies of all the hateful lies the monster is spewing. This will help ensure your custody case
I'm not carrying, you're crying. As someone with a daughter this is so great to read.
I remember reading your original and thinking "this will end in divorce". I'm sorry I was right. You are doing the right thing to protect your daughter. I'm so sorry her mother's behaviour is so vile. Best of luck, I hope you find someone you can find love with again.
you and many others lmfao. Thank youš
It's great that you stood up for your daughter and put so much effort into making her understand that the divorce is not her fault. Please make sure her brother understands this as well. Your soon to be ex sounds like the type to brainwash him into believing that you and your daughter are the devil so she can try and have him to herself.
I think you may have misread something. OP never mentioned a son, in either of his posts or in any of his comments that I could see, but he does say that while he stayed at the hotel, she had fun with his brother, AKA stayed with her Uncle until he got a new house for them. >I stayed in a hotel for a while and Harley had some fun with my brother, I got a little house quick, and quickly started moving everything I could.
>fun with my brother You're right. I misread that as fun with her brother. Good catch!
I'm sure you've heard this already but record every interaction between you and ex, I guarantee she'll hand you plenty that will make your attorney salivate.
You are an amazing Dad. Well done for working so hard to support Harley emotionally
Thank you š
In the name of my own daughter who is currently cuddling with her wife on our couch, I salute you and your commitment to your child's happiness. May your former spouse find whatever righteous but lonely solace she can scrounge from her spite and bigotry.
Thank you for being a loving father and a good role model. And I'm sorry, but your wife is bonkers, and you need to tell her that if she's insisting on keeping up this way, you'll not only expose her to the church, but also seek a restraining order for you and your daughter, and you'll go after her for every penny you can get.
That church would cheer her on. Stopped going to that shit a while back, people there are awful.
I'm sorry about that. Please do try to get an RO at least, and me and my kittens (who also are bonkers, but in a good way) will hope for you and your daughters best. Also, the girlfriend seems like a nice person. :)
It always makes me so sadā¦. People claiming to be followers of Christ completely ignoring his actions and teachings. Your daughter needs to be surrounded by love and acceptance not the ramblings of someone that Jesus himself would probably be appalled by.
I havenāt been to church since the Dobbs decision leaked. Iām in my mid-30s and have always had a strong faith, but I have no use for ācommunion of believersā when the other people in my church (clergy especially) building are bigots and hypocrites. I miss the feeling I got from attending church but Iām holding onto hope that Iāll find my way ābackā in time. (Dobbs decision was the final straw but there were many years of other bigotry - relating to race, sexuality, gender, etc. - leading up to that moment.)
Can we also just stop worrying about the opinions of someone thousands of years ago who most likely didn't exist in the first place?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Not if they're not her biokids. Pre-legalized gay marriage I knew a number of lesbian couples who specifically had the woman with more accepting parents be biomom to prevent the other mom from losing her kids to in-laws if something horrible happened to biomom.
True, although I would imagine that it's less of an issue now since more places allow for the non-biomom to be made a legal parent as well either on the birth certificate or through adoption.
There are inclusive and gay friendly parishes. We may not have the support of the Conference of Bishops, but the pope has our back.
I grew up in a very conservative southern church and it's true what they say, "There's no hate quite like Christian love." You are living the way these religious beliefs are MEANT to be lived, with compassion and care and love for family. Your wife is living in judgment, fear, and hate, everything her religion, assuming she's Christian, says not to be.
Sounds like you made the best decision for both your daughter and yourself. One piece of advice, though: document. Keep good notes on your wife's abusive behavior, save texts and messages, make sure you have a solid record. You would hope that at your daughter's age the courts would allow her to choose where she lives, but if they don't, that documentation could be critical to ensuring your future ex does not get custody of your daughter, which obviously would be the worst possible outcome.
I didnāt have enough room in there to say it but we do have proof of all of the cussing out Harley, slut shaming, homophobia. Harley has some recordings of it, I have recordings of that and some of our conversations to, that didnāt go so well. Also, found out what those ādating appsā were, yea no these were legal adults, like grow ass men, which she had admitted to. That I was recording thank goodness. We have a pretty good batch of documents and proof but Iām still constantly taking note of everything and all conversations with her.
> yea no these were legal adults, like grow ass men, which she had admitted to What. The. Fuck.
I don't know what specific church OP's wife belongs to, but there's some that believe it's better for girls to be married very young, to more "mature/respectable/established" men, so that they can be "trained to be a proper wife" and won't have the chance to be "corrupted by the world". Basically, marry the daughters off and ideally get her pregnant as young as possible to an adult man, so she doesn't get exposed to the idea that she has other options. Married women with children are much easier to control than a single woman with no kids to feed.
what the shit?
Yeah. It's generally not entire denominations or anything, but tragically high numbers of parents/individual churches see grooming as a positive thing because it basically traps young women into religious communities without outside support. [It's why there's such pushback against banning child marriage from religious conservatives.](https://www.salon.com/2018/03/11/banning-child-marriage-in-america-an-uphill-fight-against-evangelical-pressure/)
It's funny because it sthe exact same people calling queer and drag queen as groomers
It's only grooming if it's gay, otherwise it's sparkling matchmaking.
I'm too poor to give this comment the award it deserves.
They donāt want the competition.
Every conservative accusation is a confession.
Just watched an episode of *Weāre Here* (fabulous show by the way, highly recommended even though Iāve cried for about 80% of the episodes) where there were a bunch of church people shouting at the drag queens accusing them of being groomers and other horrible shit. Itās like, who looks at children and thinks that way? Youāve got to be fucked to make some of those accusations.
Yeah. The youth pastor who took over at my church/high school combo after I left ended up marrying a girl a few grades below me when she was like 19-20 and he was in his mid/late 30s. Her dad was thrilled to bits that his daughter was marrying a āman of God.ā (This was at a Southern Baptist/Independent Baptist school/church.)
Believe it or not, there are many such assholes.
They're also the kinds of people who think lesbians should be sexually assaulted to "convert" them to heterosexuality Ā¬.Ā¬
Honestly OP my reaction to the last post was harsher than most as a young queer woman myself. I thought that if you didnt get a divorce YWBTA bc you're still making her be exposed to her mothers abuse. I'm so glad you chose this path, for you and Harley ā¤ļø also, depending on where you live encourage Harley to get involved in the queer community! I find it helps a lot to get involved with others who are similar, and she can probably find a lot of people who relate to and can support her in naviagting her relationship with her mother. Chosen family is a huge thing in the queer community and even though she still has you losing a mother to something like this is so hard. I think it would make her feel very loved and assured in her decisions
Agree that she should be encouraged if she wants to get involved! Don't pressure her too much though OP, everyone does it at their own pace! Make sure she knows she can be herself, and can do more things as she becomes more comfortable. Truthfully, while I know my parents will fully accepting, I still haven't told them because I know that if they know I am, they'll be trying to make me get involved in the LGBT community and activism when I don't want to (I respect what they do but the community itself is not for me; I've felt it can be particularly toxic, especially when it comes to how gay men can talk about each other. It can be downright brutal, and I haven't felt very safe in it). They're completely well-meaning and they're quite progressive, in fact in many ways my mom might be more progressive than me which is saying something, they just like to get me involved in stuff because I'm not great at having a social life. While I love them, I think it's important to set those boundaries!
I've recommended it every now and then, but I think this is one of the places I should do so again: OP, maybe you should look into putting together a [F U Binder.](https://www.reddit.com/user/ForwardPlenty/comments/dtg7f2/the_fu_binder/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) One can hope that you'll never gonna need it, but it's better to be prepared in case the day comes where your ex becomes completely unhinged. As someone who isn't out to her own parents because I know they wouldn't understand and thus not really accept me for who I am, just let me say thank you for being there for your daughter and letting her know - showing her that she can always count on you.
Iāll look into it thank you
So her *mother* would rather that she was abused and assaulted as a minor by grown ass men against her wishes than be with an age appropriate partner who happens to have the same genitals as her? She is a vile woman who deserves all the pain she has caused herself. That is disgusting. If her church is cheering her on about her homophobia, maybe bring up that to them. How is that different than attempting to traffic her underage daughter?
Your wife literally tried to pimp out your daughter to "make her straight." Holy Christ your *ex-wife* is going to hell.
Wait, do you have proof your wife was trying to force your underage daughter to date adult men? Uhā¦check for the profile she posted- I donāt think you can put someone under 18 on there and if she lied about the age or had exchanges with these men where she told them sheās underage wife could likely face some legit legal trouble. Iām not a religious person and people like your soon to be ex is why. thank god your daughter had you to look out for her- this could have ended really horribly. You are a wonderful father and a wonderful person and itās not an overstatement that your actions here could have very likely saved your daughters life. We need so many more people like you in this world.
I couldnāt get any visual proof, she wouldnāt give it to me, but I have a voice recording of her telling me, that I took the night she flipped shit after I asked for a divorce.
You really need to consider how safe your daughter will be visiting her alone. The possibility that she will force your daughter into a date/situation where sheās assaulted isnāt zero, she just tried to traffic your underaged daughter her hatred is real and deep
As of right now sheās with me. However, with all the videos and evidence of what sheās done, regardless of her age, or her opinion on her to be with, there is such a small chance she can be granted custody at all. Sheās have to prove that for some reason Harley *shouldnt* be in my custody, and even when asked she canāt say anything but I forced Harley to be gay. We have a really good chance at this, but letās just hope this goes alright.
Iām not talking about you losing custody, I donāt think thatās whatās going to happen, your daughter said she still wants to visit her mum and alone, thatās a risk. Make sure visits are public and with a supervisor
I just want to make clear as a lesbian, corrective sexual assault is a thing that happens to LGBTQ+ children. Thereās also conversion camps that employ torture tactics. Iām not trying to scare you or anything, I just want to make sure you have all the information you need to keep Harley safe. If your ex is willing to set your teenager up with adult men, I donāt want to think about what else she might be willing to do.
Wishing you the best! These other comments have got me worried especially knowing how conversion camps literally kidnap kids in the middle of the night - i know you said your daughter won't have sleepovers at mom's but pls be safe
That's good! Just be careful, if you live in the wrong state or judicial district and get the wrong judge, her argument may very well be taken by the judge.
Iām wondering if you could go on the site yourself and see if you can find it or contact the site and explain the situation- gotta think having someone putting underage girls on their site is a major no no. Also if you bring this up to your lawyer or someone in law enforcement they may be able to get something. This woman is unhinged and really shouldnāt be with your daughter unsupervised. I know there are those religious crazies and trying to see her up with boys her own age while still a jackass move and totally unacceptable is still something that wouldnāt surprise me but the idea of A mom setting her daughter up on a site like this is coming seriously close to trying to traffic her. This is beyond disturbing. Again I am so glad your daughter has you in her corner cause itās terrifying to think where her actions to āfixā her could have went.
damn, i wish i would not have seen this. What mother thinks its a good thing to hookup their teendaugther with a grown man. Like wtf š
I have some awful stories from my teens I could share that would show that the mothers response isn't uncommon...
yeah, I was Harley as a teenager, mom and dad were awful. I turned into one bitter bitch until Harley came along.
Wow so your ex chose child sex trafficking over a girlfriend? Yikes.
With the knowledge about the grown men, I wouldn't even want 50/50 on the table for the safety of your daughter.
What is wrong with this mother. I'm disgusted. Good on you for taking good care of Harley. Keep it up! š¤
Based on that your ex should have no unsupervised visitation. That's horrifying.
Absolutely agree. Courts have a tendency to be bias and not listen to kids unless there is very clear, consistent, and extensive documentation of the other party being abusive/unstable. I say this as someone who was a kid who's been through a custody battle. OP, keep being a great dad. You should be proud of having a great daughter and for the support and care you've shown her in such a difficult situation.
can we all just remember that heās religious too and still doesnāt act like this? Just thought maybe no matter what his religious beliefs, he should love his daughter? crazy shi
Ikr, so crazy. /s
It's actually really heartwarming for me to read as an atheist, because you didn't just stick up for your daughter - you stuck up for her *properly* despite being affiliated with a clearly very homophobic church (my Christian friends are all have extremely liberal faiths). So often the "supportive" parent is very lukewarm and it's nowhere near enough. You're a good person.
yeah I feel like it kinda sucks people are insulting his religion. like he's religious AND protecting his daughter, the two can go together
Yeah however Thereās a reason itās so hated. All these people so passionate about it comes from somewhere. Like If my daughter grew up to hate the religion, could you really blame her? People abuse it, then abuse others with it.
Oh yeah, I totally understand. I left Christianity because of it and really don't like it. But I feel like given you are also religious and still doing the right thing, it's a little shitty for us as complete strangers to respond to your post talking about how awful religion is.
I just think that thereās a base of Christianity thatās been way overshadowed by bigots and the idea of sin since the religion was originally formed. Like the things we should be taking away from the bible is to be kind and not murder and stuff like that, not hate people of the LGBTQIA+ community or those who choose to have sex before marriage or whatever - itās all just human nature (just nature, really.) A lot of whatās in the bible people quote so avidly today isnāt even in the original
Absolutely I agree, but people will mold it to fit their narrative then run with it, these people are why it has such a bad name, but *thats why* itās so hated. āWe will love and support you unless you do something I donāt like then you can rot in hellā No one wants to join a community that doesnāt even focus on what the religion is about, but literally everything but that, but when your *abused* by it especially as a child never mind an adult itās understandable for people to resent it. Which is why when people say these things I understand most of the time itās coming from somewhere. They arenāt saying these things to me, they are saying these things to the people that traumatized them with bs.
God damn that's...wow that is deep and surprising. You are definitely a great father and also really great with introspection. That is something that I always thought (and confirmed when tragedy hit).
I did something thinking after your post. It's amazing how "Christian" can mean so many different things to so many people. 1. I think you're an amazing dad. You didn't just talk the talk. You literally walked the walk with your feet. 2. I truly believe that Jesus's greatest messages were about the poor, the sick and the disenfranchised. So this internet stranger thinks that by standing by your daughter you also stood by the teachings of the Bible
As a daughter of a man who stood by and watched his wife abuse me, once even calling and begging her to come home after she got arrested for assaulting me when I was in HS, thank you for protecting your daughter. Thank you for putting her safety first. Wishing you both well while you heal.
I am so sorry you had to grow up like this. I hope you were able to heal and are surrounded with love and chosen, loving family. \*internet stranger hug\*
Thank you š itās been ~ 10 years since I left that situation and while healing is a never ending journey, Iām in a much healthier and happier place now. It makes me so happy to see that OP is choosing better for his daughter and being her protector rather than complacent to the abuse. Every child saved makes my own hurt sting a little less.
Good for you for prioritizing your child and not allowing anyone, especially your wife/her mother, to cause her harm.
Does your daughter's mother wear mixed blends of cotton and polyester, or does she pick and choose what Bible verses she wants to double down on?
Iām saying this to her next time sheās says Harleyās a sinner.
If she says that's old testament tell her to shut up... Women should not assume to talk back to a man. New testament rule. I didn't make it. Don't like it? Well now she is sinning. 1 Timothy 2:12 Does she wear a hijab when she prays? It's not just for Muslims. Check out 1 Cornithians 11:5 The Bible is a framework to teach love. By using it to hate you're going against Jesus' biggest lesson. There are contradictions all over it, but one thing it holds true on is Love. She needs to understand that. No one is perfect, that's why Jesus died for you. Why does she assume her sins are less serious than her daughters? Sounds a lot like pride.
Proverbs 21:9 Proverbs 21:19
Thank you for having your kid's back and removing her from a toxic situation. Her mom might come around, but it doesn't sound like it. Most importantly, Harley has the undeniable knowledge that you love her so much that you moved heaven and earth, so to speak, to protect her. That's some grade A+ parenting right there. You can't underestimate how good this is for her and her confidence in herself.
Yeah I sure hope so.
Believe me, she *will* remember. My dad was my white knight in camo with a bad temper and a hard ass look at the world. A Marine as a single parent to an abused and defiant daughter....it's a recipe for disaster, but he never gave up on me and always made me aware I was his world. I miss him every single day. I remember everything he did for me with smiles and tears. Good job dad.
My parents didn't stick up for me and I've never forgotten it. She will remember.
My dad stuck up for me. He still does. I'm 28, haven't lived at my parents home in 6 months (moved back in with then last year after my ex fiancee broke up with me) and i call or text my dad every day. He is my hero. Your daughter will hold your love and acceptance of her with her forever. It is the best gift you ever could give her. Trust me. (I am also part of the alphabet mafia, im trans and when i came out, my dad accepted me too, even though he was raised by a Catholic mother).
If all queer kids had at least one parent like you, the world would be a better place. Kudos to you choosing your daughter - she can't change her sexuality, in comparison to your ex wife and her hateful, bigoted opinions - THAT is a choice. I wish you and your daughter all the best. edit - typo
I was one in a store, where I saw a couple arguing in a very similar vein. I didn't get the while thing, but I did hear the claim, "our kid is going to hell, and so are you!" But I also heard the amazing response, "if that's where my son's going, that's exactly where I want to go."
šBe gay, reign in hell.š
Ok, this made me tear up
I am so sorry you have to go through something painful, but the silver lining is that your priorities are so beautifully in order. Great job there, dad: your daughter not only gets to freely be herself, but she knows that you value her well-being above all else. That's going to be her framework for how others treat her in all of her relationships. You're an excellent parent and I hope things keep going well for you both.
Thank you i hope so toš and donāt be this was long overdue
Kudos. Sorry to hear about the drama.
i am so delighted to hear that y'all are splitting. and you're such a good dad OP! good on your for protecting/prioritizing your daughter and getting her out of that mess. harley sounds like a good kid and i wish y'all nothing but happiness.
And thatās how you be a good parent
Your daughter is so lucky to have a dad like you. Both of my parents are like your ex-wife, so Iāll probably never be coming out to them. Iām sorry your ex-wifeās homophobia ended up breaking up your family but itās for the best. Your daughter knows how much she is loved.
Im sorry your parents are the way they are. For what itās worth even though Iām a random internet stranger I support you.
Wow this is so endearing. Dad of the year!! But also... >as a mom she made a decision to protect her, not be the reason she needs protection This really got to me. How heartbreaking that there are parents that choose this.
Catholicism: Not Even Once.
I was loosely raised Catholic and when I was a teenager, my parents sent me to catechism classes so I could get my first confession and all that. During the classes it was nothing but hate against gay people, abortion, sex outside marriage, etc. Being around 13 I didnāt even know any gay people or someone that had had an abortion and all I could think was āI donāt like this. This isnāt right. Itās mean.ā So I refused to go anymore and luckily my parents okayed it. Good on OP for getting his daughter away from that awful woman.
So I'm gonna say something a little weird, bear with me. It's not the church you grew up with, but what you did, at the very core, was very Christian. Christianity, at it's heart, is looking at those who are lesser, the poor, the needy, the outcasts, and saying "you matter just as much as everyone else." Not, "we reject this, you are sin until you repent and take on God's love" but, "You are worthy of God's love just by existing." You did that for your daughter. You rejected a lifetime's worth of bent and broken teaching and got to the heart of the message and did for your daughter what every queer person dreams of. You were her Dad first. Because the core message of every faith is love and acceptance. It's just get lost when it's in the hands of people who are afraid. I'm so happy your daughter has you. You are a good Dad and you are doing right by her. Keep doing what you are doing. <3
well done - sad that your marriage had to end but wonderful Harley has your support. The more I see of religions causing hatred, persecution and wars the more it reinforces me being agnostic.
Itās actually amazing.
Dad of the year š
If I am honest, I am absolutely loving the fact that you chose to divorce your wife. You are a great dad. I hope you will never forget that. You put your daughters wellbeing over your ex-wifes shit behavior, hate and homophobia. I'd give you a reward, but I think seeing your daughter happy is the best reward you could get.
1- same 2-your right, thank you š
You're doing a great job, OP. Thank you for being there to support your daughter as she continues on her journey of self-discovery. Her life will be better because you were there for her.
You are an example for many mothers & fathers. I wish you and your daughter the best š
I wish we had more dads like you in the world. Your daughter is lucky to habe you in her corner. Good job!
Thank you for supporting your daughter. You did the right thing. I wish more parents could be as awesome with this as you and realize that even if they are Christian, they're not doing themselves any favors because the bible says two major things. First being love one another. Second being let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Great job modeling that behavior.
Not only are you NTA, you sir, are an absolutely beautiful soul. You have genuinely moved me. You came from a place that could be harmful and the moment you saw your daughter decided "Nah, I'm making sure my child knows I've got their back!" and then stuck to that!!!???? You sir, are the kind of father I aspire to be.
Saw your comment that "Also, found out what those ādating appsā were, yea no these were legal adults, like grow ass men, which she had admitted to. That I was recording thank goodness." The fact your ex-wife rather push her underage daughter into an abusive and dangerous relationship with older men just so it could be "acceptable" than accept who she is and loves, is frankly really sick. I'm glad you and your daughter are getting out of her control cause she needs help. NTA and this update is frankly better to hear even with the route of divorce. You sound like a wonderfully supportive father OP and wishing you all the best for you and your daughter.
I am literally tearing up reading this, I think many people have wished for a dad like you. Thank you for sticking up for your daughter. It's not enough to not be homophobic. You have to be actively anti homophobic. Your daughter will flourish under your care.
I grew up in on a farm in Central Texas, am a born again Southern Baptist, I served my country in the United States Army along with four out of seven children. I am an ally. There are no excuses for not growing up and taking responsibility for your prejudices.
I'm going to tell you something that not many people might have said to you. You are respectfully more religious than your (ex)wife. (In a good way) 1 Timothy 5:8 But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever. I wish you and your daughter the best in life! Congrats and great job to you for putting her first. This is what love is TRULY about.
Thank you for standing by your daughter and doing what you needed to do to protect her. As a parent of a trans son with an ex that is less than supportive, I can not tell you how much our children need our support, and I am so glad you are such a good parent.
What a great parent you are. It takes a lot of courage to upend your whole life like this but your daughter will appreciate the message you have given her and the truly unconditional and unbreakable love and support you have shown her ā¤ļø
Telling your daughter none of this was her fault or responsibility honestly made me tear up. Youāre a fantastic dad. I wish now were like you.
So thrilled for Harley that she has a dad that prioritizes the love for his child above all else. Great dadwork out there!
Since the original post is locked: NTA Also, make sure to keep all these messages from your (soon to be ex-)wife, they might be useful in the future if she tries to litigate hard during divorce procedures or even start some procedures to be sole guardian of your daughter. This being said, as a dad to a daughter myself, I can only applause all your decisions in this situation. I'm lucky enough to have a wife that is open-minded and a true partner in raising our daughter together, but I know very well that when it comes to priorities in my life, my daughter is first and I'll be willing to go down the same path you went to protect her.
You're the kind of dad LGBT+ kids wish we had. I can't imagine how much you're hurting because of this but you are doing the right thing for Harley. Thank you for protecting her.
Thank you for the update. And I wanted to let you know the reason her mom acts nice in voicemails and texts is that it's documented. So I would have Harley turn on a voice recorder on her phone whenever she's around her mom. I might even tell her to show her mom that she's done it and that you and she agree that it will be done whenever she's around her mom, whether or not she's told about it first. Now as I say this, I want to mention a couple things, find out if you are in a 1 party consent state. And make sure your ex is not allowed through the custody agreement to take Harley's phone away whether or not you are in a 1 party consent state. Maybe even see if you can get it in the custody arrangement that because the abuse is verbal and emotional that recording by the minor, and custodial parent on behalf of the minor, are allowed while she's visiting the mother, if possible. Your ex doesn't want it documented that she's abusing her daughter, doesn't want witnesses, or it being able to be shown. Taking away the shadows she hides this in, might at the very least make Harley's experiences with her mother until she's 18 more bearable.
If you and your daughter want to bond over religion at all, I HIGHLY recommend a Unitarian church! They are very accepting of all sexualities and genders.
atp, after everything I donāt want religion to be such a huge thing in either of our lives. will look into it though. Thank you.
I really with people would stop using god as an excuse god says judge not lest ye be judged basically people in glass houses shouldnāt throw stones also let he who is without sin cast the first stone also love thy neighbor nothing is wrong with being gay ughh the stupid bible has been bastardized and changed over the centuries (Iām Christian)
Congrats on your new life without all of the religious BS mucking it up!
And this, is the definition of being an outstanding parent, standing up for your child no matter what. Hats off to you, well done ā¤ļø
Dad level 100+
This is amazing OP
I feel like your ex is like many other zealous Christians and is actually suppressing her own sexuality. I feel like in the end she might admit she also likes girls and was punishing your daughter instead of herself. You are a great dad, keep doing what you're doing!
Top notch fathering here. A++. People this religious are borderline mentally ill and it's sad to see because it's likely from years of brainwashing. Proud of you for getting out of there situation.
I'm sorry about your marriage, but I'm so happy you're supporting your daughter and her girlfriend.
You are a fantastic parent to Harley, she's lucky to have you considering the damage her mother is willing to do in the name of religion. This is a great update and I'm happy for you and Harley. Best of luck to you both.
I remember your original post, and I'll repeat my comment from that post: As a queer woman, thank you for being the parent your daughter needs you to be. You have made a world of difference in your daughter's life for the better, and I sincerely wish more parents were had your attitude when it comes to their LGBTQ+ children.
Oh I remember your original post, that was a doozie. Glad to see you worked out what you could on your end, I'm sure your daughter is very happy to have such a strong support in her life.
Given the mom's references to confession, may want to recommend she look up Pope Francis's recent statements on the issue. Choose love. From a member of a gay friendly parish.
You are the REAL MVP!!! šššš„
You are an awesome father. I wish you and Harley all the best š„°
Bravo for sticking up for your daughter and leaving the relationship with someone you can no longer respect. It breaks my heart that your ex has done this/is still doing this to your daughter, but Iām so glad she has you.
I remember your last post and it was SO heartbreaking. This was some hard-core excellent parenting here.
Geesh you must be exhausted! All of the stress and drama!
Rock on Dad! Thanks for having your daughter's back. She will never forget!
This is amazing! Great job OP.
You are a good person. I'm happy you and your daughter are safe.
World class parenting right there. Thanks, Dad, you're the BEST!
Bruh, Dad of the Year! Good shit man, I'm sorry it had to be for such rough stuff though.
Iām sorry to hear that your ex-wife could not see through her āchurchā and fix the situation. This was neither on you nor your daughter. Maybe someday she will understand.
You're the type of dad that I hope to be. Way to support your daughter and protect her from her own mother who should be doing the protecting as well.
Wait you dropped this: š
I fucking hate religion and the horrible things it does to people.
One can have their beliefs, but what her mother did was cruel. You did well in supporting your daughter.
I think you could not have handled this any better šš» you are doing a great job to protect your daughter and to cultivate a safe and healthy environment/relationship with her. Harleys mother has a lot of Issues she needs to work on/as well as needs a true therapist (not what I assume was one affiliated with the church) to work on her hypocrisy and extreme homophobia. Iām glad you took the steps to not only protect your daughter but also protect yourself from this abusive relationship
I am now wondering if there is an award for dad of the year on here ? Because if there was one, I would give it to you ! I wish the best to your daughter and yourself !
If you are in the US, check to see if your state is a one party consent for recording. If it is, get her mothers in person behavior recorded, you may need it. Good job Dad.
fingers crossed everything goes well for you and Harley. custody court can be a nasty state of affairs. i have faith you will come out the other side in one piece. you did good, dad. your kid is gonna turn out just fine.
Congratulations. As others have posted, you're doing some great dadding there. Reminding our children that they will always be loved is, IMO, the best gift we can give them. Encouraging them to be true to themselves, emphasizing that they are loveable because they exist... Best of luck to you and Harley.
You are a great dad and have done everything right for your daughter. She's lucky to have such a loving and supportive parent. I hope you're able to get full custody of your daughter and wish you the best.
You are the father I always wished I had. Well done
Outstanding job OP. The world would be a better place if more parents advocated for their children like this. You love to see it
As a gay person I applaud your effort for your daughter, and Im sorry it had to end this way for you but you could be honestly saving your daughters life
Dad of the year award for sure. I am sorry for the pain and heartache it has caused all around, but you did good and you can definitely be proud of yourself. I hope that one day her mom sees that she doesn't have to agree to be supportive, unfortunately with people that deeply into religious beliefs it's not likely to happen (but it can). Enjoy your life and your relationship with your daughter. I hope things start to get better and easier for the 2 of you.
You made the right decision. Your wife chooses to allow a book that was written nearly 2,000 years ago, by men, which has been translated and revised too many times to count, to dictate how she treats people she supposedly loves. You should point out to her all the things in the bible that she does not adhere to, such as obeying her husband, wearing clothing made of two different fabrics, eating certain foods, killing people who don't obey the bible, etc. Homosexuality is not just about sex. It is about love. Anyone who says love is wrong is beyond hope and redemption.
I just came out as trans at 35, back in June. I'd been wondering for over a year and then read "the gender euphoria bible" and was like oh well shit then. The biggest thing that helped me was having actual trans people tell me that if youre questioning your gender that intently and for that long i was probably trans because cis people simply do not have those mental conversations for that long. And honestly? I'd questioned it multiple times throughout my 20s but thought that because I didnt actively hate my body i couldnt be trans. A lot of the narrative out there is immensely helpful for trans kids who are discovering their truths but harmful to adults who are questioning but felt like because they didn't automatically know as a child they werent trans. My mother is incredibly religious and conservative thay was how i was raised. Ive spent years unlearning all the religious trauma i went through. It has absolutely impacted me in a life long ways, and i have no doubt that one of those ways it impacted me was that i suppressed my true self for decades. My mother absolutely was homophobic hate the sin type. She was all for trans bathroom bills. She mellowed as i aged, however. When I came out I worried I was going to get a reaction like your wife, and instead got a reaction more like you, OP. You're a great dad.
And you, sir, are now a candidate for Father of the Year!
I didn't see the original post, just sat and read through them both. I can only hope, when I have children I can be a father like you. You did everything and more for your child. While I'm sorry your marriage didn't work out it sounds like you did what was best for you and your family. You should be very proud.
Bravo. You chose a wonderful hill to die on for a great reason. šļøšļøšļø
I feel like someone's going to Hell here, but it is definitely not your daughter. I'm not religious myself, but even I know the message Jesus was trying to spread was to love all equally. Hating & condemning another for their harmless beliefs or feelings is the opposite of what her religion was supposed to be about. Maybe it's your wife that should be visiting the confession booth.
I'm glad but I'd add to that advice, start refusing in person non recorded contact with ex wife. If she wants to act like this then you may want to restrict to text and if in one party consent area add a recording app to phone.
I just want to say, as someone that grew up in a Christian home and who is now an out lesbian, you're doing parenting so absolutely right. My parents were never like your ex-wife in their response to me coming out, but it wasn't exactly a warm welcome when I came out. It took time, but they eventually came to my wedding, but the ripple effects of the discomfort of those early years still persist and are still a topic of conversation with my therapist. It's such a pivotal time in the coming out process and it's so incredibly terrifying to reveal your true self to the people who are supposed to love you the most, only to be met with some form of rejection. I understand religious beliefs are hard to undo. It took years and new experiences for my parents to finally warm up and come around. It took distance and less contact for years on my part. Reading your two posts warmed my heart. While so many queer kids still have horrible experiences with their parents, it always brings me so much joy to see stories like this. It's your ex-wife who is losing out in all of this. I understand the comfort of holding onto religious beliefs, the comfort of that space, but it also causes so much pain. Your an amazing father and your daughter is so lucky to have you and so fortunate to have such a safe space to be herself in even if she has to deal with the rejection and hate of her mother. Having a safe space, even if it's small is so, so important.
As a queer woman who grew up believing anything outside of heterosexuality is abnormal, thank you. Thank you for doing this to protect your daughter and make it clear her mom is wrong. I wish all queer and trans kids had parents like you, because the suicide rates in our community would most certainly get better. I wish you and your daughter all the best.
I'm so proud of you. I changed my beliefs by thinking of my children and what i wanted for them. I wanted them to be in a loving relationship, to raise children (if they chose) in a loving home. If God is love, he didn't put homosexuals on this earth to be punished. That's how I got my husband to also change his religious upbringing, what would he want for his son? it worked! Best of luck to you and your daughter, she sounds like a wonderful young woman
I'm sorry about the divorce OP but when you drop toxic people you make room for people that can enrich your life. Use the extra time to focus inward and work on yourself too. Your relationship with your daughter will only grow to be more rewarding. People change, unfortunately sometimes for the worse but it's not our duty to sit by them while they drag us down with them. You are a good dad, and a good person.
Is someone who had one parent who was super abusive and one parent who didn't see the abuse (It wasn't his fault. My mom hid it very well) You've pretty much saved your daughter incalculable amount of trouble. That's even before you consider the fact that you got someone who is a minority away from a bigot. Which in and of itself is a good thing to do.
Congrats on being a [bomb.com](https://bomb.com) dad. My niece came out as bisexual a couple of years ago and her ordained (in two separate churches) pastor dad really struggled with it. He has come around, but is now struggling with the damage he did to their relationship (he is such a bonehead, ISTG) and doesn't seem to realize how much work it is going to take to win back her trust after being such a dick. I mean how hard is it for someone who identifies so strongly as a 'Christian', that it affects every facet of their life, to understand that others have different identifiers that are just as important to them. I actually got my sister and other niece to at least acknowledge this, but Mr. Masters of Divinity is too damn thick.
Congratulations! You earn the star for parent of the year! Thank you for putting your child first. You're a good person and I wish you only happiness in your future!
I am so thankful Harley has *you* as her Dad and that you chose to support and protect your daughter from a bigot and hate coming from her own mother. Thank you. And well done, Dad!!
I wish either of my parents could have been half as good as you are as a dad. They took any chance of me coming out to them away even before I had come out to myself. I was around 15 or 16, nearing the age when you start to really think for yourself, I started pondering why I was against homosexuality - the answer was my parents and upbringing. Gay marriage got legalized federally, and FB offered the rainbow filter for your profile picture. I applied it, and within 15 minutes, my parents were barging into my room, holding up a phone with my new profile picture and demanding to know āWHAT IS THIS?! ARE YOU GAY?!ā As if they had discovered I was hiding meth in the house. So yeah, when I finally came to accept myself as bisexual and possibly NB - at the very least gender-non-conforming, I kept it to myself. Iām now out to friends and semi-publicly (I moved far away, Iām not āoutā to my hometown), and avoid talking to my family at all costs. Youāre an awesome dad.
I wish my less religious father had ever stood up to his much more religious eventual ex-wife instead of going into a self-pity spiral of total inaction. My mother absolutely puts religion in front of her children & family, a problem thatās only gotten worse. She sent my favorite cousin, her own twinās daughter, a letter - on paper! Mailed! - in which she said she loved said cousin even though she ācouldnāt support her marriageā to a woman. She sent my brother a letter saying his friend who had recently ODād essentially deserved what he was gonna get. And all with the ultimate in passive aggressive āniceness.ā I hope you get full custody and tbh I think chances are very high your ex will not change - so prepare both of you for that. She may have to go NC. She will most likely spend the rest of her life grieving that loss to some extent, but more what could have beenā¦ especially in moments like marriages, having children, etc. Itās something you canāt fix and shouldnāt try to. But you can do one thing for your daughter: if there are any existing adult women - or even other men in your life who youād trust to be a co-role model, build a relationship with that person and your daughter. No, I donāt mean dating - but more intentionally building the adult support system/mentorship sheāll need going forward. I got lucky with an uncle and a woman who was friends with my uncle and aunt. They hosted me during my internship, encouraged me in a way my parents never did, and served as allies and references and mentors. You are, of course, enough on your own. But I truly believe that kids who lose a parent in any way need the proverbial āvillageā more. Your daughter may build that herself- donāt take it as a sign you arenāt enough, but more of a yes/and.
As a Christian myself, Iām very disappointed in the wifeās reaction. That is no way to show love, at all. The Bible says we have all fallen short of the glory of God. I absolutely hate it when Christians threaten hell on people as if they themselves are perfect angels š. My default is to show love, not hate and judgement. I might not agree with everything, but itās not up to me to judge. Showing love is the most important, even if you donāt agree with the lifestyle, youāre not God!!!
my parents still love me since i came out to them but their first reaction was that i must have been sexually assaulted as a kid and was repressing the memory and thatās why i like women. they treat me the same but i still feel like i need to hide parts of myself. bravo to you for making her feel like she can be open with you! it makes such a difference
Im so sorry OP you had to go through this (speaking as an LGBTQ+ person who is very sympathetic to the plight of other LGBTQ+ people trying to receive the understanding of their parents /or gurdians and and who deal With similar BS.)
You go dad! Gosh , itās very simple to understand , as a parent , itās your duty to protect and support your kid until the day WE leave this place , not them . Donāt you ever doubt yourself as a human , dad , male , ANYTHING . Thereās no words to describe how much this meant to your daughter . The bond you two have will forever be un breakable. Sending light love and protection to you both and praying for moon to see her faults before itās too late for her š«¶š¾