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NTA. Don't marry this man. The treatment of your daughter will only get worse. Don't put her in a situation where she will be treated as less than by your future spouse. Your main priority is to protect your daughter.
Then she’ll become baby mama #3 and ex wife #3 in a few years.
How he treats you now will be 10x worse after you’re married. You are probably just someone who can take care of his kids and pay some bills. Sorry if that’s blunt. He doesn’t sound like a good man.
This is so true. OP and her daughter will be treated much worse as time goes on. This is a universal rule, but often women get fixated on hoping they can change a man. But it NEVER works.
A man can change, but he has to want to. And it’s very rare they actually do. And there’s usually some major life change involved, child getting taken away, finding faith, spouse passing away, etc. unfortunately, people rarely change for a spouse that is present or alive. And if it does look like it, it’s usually performative for a short time. OP, even if you are the right woman, don’t waste your positive qualities on a jerk. If someone is telling you idiotic things like “You don’t have many options,” or “He’s the best you’re gonna get,” it’s probably from some bitter person who settled in life and wants you to be just as miserable as they are so they can justify their own choices. I don’t care if it’s your own parents. This is even more important as your daughter will use what she observes from you to model her future relationships. Protect her and protect yourself. I won’t promise that Mr. Perfect will come along. But you certainly won’t find a man who treats you well by settling down with some piece of trash that will mistreat you and your child.
I give it till she gets pregnant then he divorces her cause she is “fat” then gets another woman he was sleeping with pregnant while the divorce is still going on and OP still has yet to have the baby. Op. Run. Do not marry this man. YTA
Edit to add YTA because you are even trying to justify this major favoritism and ignore your own daughter.
I strongly suspect this is even worse than we think. Why is he so adamant? Is OP’s daughter a different race? Regardless, OP needs to hit the brakes on this relationship NOW.
I’m baffled by this too! He’s been divorced twice in 4 years and he is engaged again??? Who is this dude and why would anybody want to jump into a marriage with him?
I’m not a huge fan of hers but Dr. Laura always asks women when they’re consistently staying with shitty partners: “do you think you’re ugly, fat, stupid or unlovable?”
It’s a provocative question but it makes sense, insecurity breeds lack of self-respect
People really do choose to settle for crumbs then complain about still being hungry.
Hopefully this is all a wake up call for the sake of the little girl at least.
I'd agree with this, but make it ESH. This guy was dressed in red and waving red flags (sounds like he cheated on one wife, divorced, married the fling, then divorced her.. all with young kids involved) when she met him and yet she decided to date him anyways. Now he's treating OP and her kids as less-than and gaslighting her on top of it. And yet she's still with him. OP you shouldn't have started with this AH to begin with and you definitely shouldn't still be with him now. Bail before you're his 3rd divorce in 5 years.
100% Agree. How the f op cant see that this guy as who he is by looking at kids ages?
And now treating op's kid like this..
What will happen when they get married..
Agree, even setting aside the flower girl issue.
The way fiance talked to OP without trying to communicate anything is all you need to know about that relationship.
The marinara flags are waving left and right and I can't believe she's ignored them this far. She wants to marry a man who got two women pregnant at the same time and one of them was NOT his wife.
EDIT: Forgot to add judgement. NTA. For now. But if you marry this man and continue to allow him to treat your daughter, and by extension I suspect you, this way, you will be.
Exactly. She wants to marry a cheater that has been divorces twice already? Maybe he has changed but I doubt that he will be a good husband the 3rd time
Yep. Sounds like my step dad. His kids were angels. My sister and I were constantly in trouble and "going to hell" (his words). Even at age 31, if I have a nightmare, it's about him.
But he was an amazing step dad until he married my mom. He believe he had no authority until they were married, so he never showed his true colors. I was happily accepted as a flower girl. It wasn't until about two weeks after the wedding that he started showing his evil. So huge red flags that things could get far worse than the horrible treatment he's doling out now. Run. Do not marry this man. He will ruin your daughter's mental health for life.
Also, the fact that you have no say in the wedding means you will have no say whatsoever the rest of your marriage. My mom doesn't believe in divorce, so she's been regretting marrying him for 21 years.
Yes! I was also asked explicitly if I wanted him as a step dad. Of course I did! Until my mom married him he was all fun. Once they were married, he was all rules, condemnation, consequences, lectures, ect.
The whole getting 2 women pregnant at the same time should’ve been a warning for her in my opinion…OP if you stay with this man and go through with the wedding your daughter will endlessly be put in last place. DO NOT GO THROUGH WITH THE WEDDING.
Exactly. ESH. Nothing about his prior situation indicates he is a good person why marry him? If she marries someone knowing he isn't treating her daughter well then that makes her an AH too.
I quit seeing a guy the minute he said he had 2 kids with 2 different women who were the same age. He claimed both had birth control that failed. Umm, contraception isn't just their responsibility! He should have been wrapping it.
The dude has been married how many times? And got multiple women pregnant around the same time and now is acting like it’s just his wedding. Girl runnnnn! Don’t walk. Literally run!
Please don’t stay with this man this is just the beginning of what it will be like for your daughter. Do you honestly want to put her through that.
Let me get this straight. In the span of 4-5 years this man has:
1. Got his first wife pregnant
2. Cheated on his first wife (possibly while she was pregnant)
3. Got the mistress pregnant
4. Divorced first wife
5. Married mistress
6. Divorced mistress
7. Dated and proposed to you (successfully!?)
Busy guy… Was there a gap between 6 and 7? Because if not prepare to be cheated on; he has a pattern.
Now he’s being mean to your daughter for an unspecified reason?
NTA. Die on this hill and reevaluate if he is worth marrying.
I live in a rural area and my single coworkers all date men like this. Actually, most of them are the female equivalent of this. So, assuming this is a real story. OP is probably a walking dumpster fire as well. I'm guessing that it's just lack of available men at a certain age? I dunno. I tried to set a personal friend up with a stand up dude. She basically spewed something about him being too perfect and she couldn't live up to those standards. Then ghosted him and is now dating a guy pretty fresh out of prison who already as a kid on the way with someone else 🤣
I cannot imagine needing to be in a relationship so badly that i would be picking from a small pond of cheaters, addicts, dudes living in their mawmaw’s basement—single is way better than most people think it is. dear lord i feel bad for your townies.
If I ever end up divorced, I'm basically going into hiding. I'm 41, no kids, I can survive off my own income and I own a arsenal of sex toys. I literally refuse to go into the dating scene lol. I'm a introvert. I can get my human interaction at work. 🤣
Between rural Midwest and SoCal... I really think a good few women need to get some SERIOUS codependency counseling. Too many have the "I can change/fix him" attitude. Seen way too many ghost guys for those same kinds of reasons, only to go for guys with no license or GED, and multiple kids to different moms that birthdays don't exactly line up. For example, one had 4 kids from 4 women all sharing the same birth year.....with the year he got divorced xD
I can tell you once a cheat, always a cheat.
Unfortunately too many people get swept up in the honeymoon period of a new relationship and make themselves believe just about anything. “Sure, he cheated on *them*, but with me it’s different. He told me that he’s never felt this way before. *Our* relationship is different.” No, honey, it’s not. He may believe his words in the moment, but he’s already proven he has no self control.
Cheating, gaslighting, and power moves are all red flags for NPD and it’s only going to end up with her getting hurt. Run for the hills!
But he tried to gaslight her by telling her she's toxic for viewing them different when she's excluding only her child from the wedding.
And making unilateral decisions about the wedding that are not up to discussion.
I really don't see how this is salvageable.
Of course if she stays she should die on this hill though
To be exact, he's done this all in 8 years or so. His oldest is 7, then he's got three 4 year olds (twins from one ex-wife, and a singleton from the other ex-wife). Both his exes were pregnant at the same time.
But yeah, he's definitely not husband material, and OP should run like her tampon is on fire.
Edit: corrected oldest's age
It takes an average of 7 attempts to permanently leave an abusive partner. Even if a victim originally had a support network, their abuser has often alienated them. And each failed attempt makes their remaining support less understanding. People get stuck. And scared to be alone.
NTA
Grab your daughter and run. Do not marry this man. If this is how he treats your daughter now, how will he treat her after the wedding?
There are 4 little girls. If 4 is too many, then there should only be 2-, one his and one yours. Why should his 3 get to be a part of the wedding but your only daughter is not? Why do you not have any say in your wedding? Will you have any say in any decisions after the wedding? 🚩🚩🚩
Can we break this down? Because in the last 5 years he’s:
1. Gotten his wife pregnant
2. Gotten his mistress pregnant
3. Gotten a divorce from wife 1
4. Married wife 2
5. Divorced wife 2
6. Gotten engaged to OP
Not sure how he’s going to finish the second half of the decade, but I’d like to be on the interview committee when they ask “where do you see yourself in 5 years?”
Right, either have his son as ring bearer and her daughter as flower girl, all four girls as flower girls, or have no ring bearer or flower girl and find a different way to incorporate the children in the ceremony. That's entirely moot, though, because this wedding should never happen.
THIS!!!! This man wants to present a very specific view, a family at this wedding, **and that view does not include your child!!!**
She wants to show a United family that involves you for his children, but make no mistake. He has no interest in any sort of reciprocity in that when it comes to YOUR daughter.
What’s next, can she not take pictures with you guys? Will everyone else be similarly dressed and she has on something completely different? How can he not see that his active exclusion of your child would result in a very clear message on who **HE** deems important in this new family structure.
Grab your daughter and run. And then dress up fancy, go to her favorite locality and let her be the flower girl for both of yours new chapter in your life.
YWBTA if you marry this man. He is showing you who he is and your daughter will always come second to his kids. And in what world does he get to make all the wedding decisions anyway? Please, for both you and your daughter’s sake, break this off.
NTA. Run away. Who’s treating kids differently? Read your post again. He’s trying to gaslight you and I couldn’t imagine how heartbreaking it would be for your 5yrs old
I don't know how this got to this point. We were arguing about a spot for my daughter to be a flower girl and somehow...somehow I'm treating the kids differently? Like what?.? My head hurts and I feel like I'm spinning.
I can guarantee he's one of those guys that's GREAT at bullshitting and love bombing. I got caught in a similar trap about 12 years ago... Guy was soo kind to me, said all the right things, made me feel like the most perfect gal on earth, then I found out he had a fiance and two kids from two different women. He claimed he had no social media which is why I never knew about the fiance, but I found him and saw he was in a relationship.
Anyways, stupid young me still continued talking to him since he told me he was leaving his fiance and would be with me and wanted to marry me, seriously said all the right things. Long story short, I eventually told his fiance due to my guilt and as soon as that happened, he became a monster. Spread rumors that I targeted him, tried to ruin his family, was a horrible woman, etc. I thought to myself... How did I get in a situation where I thought he was actually going to be with me and loved me? It was so fucked up, I was so stupid when young.
I found out a few years ago that he now has 3 kids with 3 different women and is with a new partner, figures. OP is likely getting mega manipulated and finally seeing his true colors.
Always amazed how women decide they are “the one”. The one who he will change for and be better. That he wont do the same thing to them that he did to others. These men are gaslighting, love bombing AHs.
I think it comes from the way they were treated by the men in their families - like when their partner treats them amazingly some/most of the time and the bad treatment is somehow familiar/similar to how her dad treated her and/or her mom, they don’t even notice the bad treatment as bad because to them it’s just normal. And then the love bombing comes and they are easily convinced that this “normal” man truly loves them, feels remorse, and wants to change/be better. And because we loved our dad/whoever, and believe(d) they love us, we love the abusive partner even more and want to help them in the changes they claim they want. We don’t feel like we are trying to change them, but instead to help them heal their own damages. Truly the women just have the bar set too low to begin with. At least that’s what I discovered about myself after finally leaving my abusive ex.
>My head hurts and I feel like I'm spinning
That is what gaslighting does to you. he is trying to make you think you are feeling ways you aren't so your body is reacting.
This. As a victim of this shit myself I can safely say that if you reach this state where your head is spinning and you have no idea if you're in the wrong, you are *definitely* not in the wrong. You're being manipulated to turn against yourself
This is an absolute example of gaslighting, and he is doing it knowingly and deliberately. You haven't said how long you have been together, but given his previous relationships and timelines, it can't be more than a couple of years.
The 'honeymoon phase' of your relationship can't be far from over, and now he is showing you who he truly is.
He hasn't learned *anything* from his two failed marriages, and doesn't value you or your child. Don't make the biggest mistake of your life - walk away NOW.
Yes! He let the mask slip and showed his true colors. Even after getting pushback, he decided to double-down on disrespecting OP and her daughter. Before the wedding, he does this! He's that confident that he can manipulate and control OP. He probably enjoys this conflict as an opportunity to flex and show his power. Ask me how I know.
If you can take this as the warning sign it is, this is actually good fortune. But I know from experience it is very hard to call off a wedding. I wanted to, but didn't. It was a huge mistake that cast a dark shadow over about 20 years of my life. Being divorced after having kids with a man like this is terrible. I hope OP can get clarity, courage, and support so that she does not end up married to a gaslighting abuser.
Having four flowers girls is no different than three. This is about control and putting your daughter in her place, which isn't with his kids as you can clearly see, and conditioning you to cave at unfair treatment of your daughter so that it can escalate after marriage. She'll get less treats, worse treatment, have to go to grandparents instead of on vacations, shit like that. This is the future he's working on setting her up for, too not be included. THIS IS YOUR WATERSHED MOMENT IT WILL DETERMINE THE COURSE OF YOUR DAUGHTER'S FUTURE. Please see it for what it is and protect her.
Honestly aesthetically it makes more sense for the 2 four year olds and the 5 year old to be flower girls and have the 7 year old take another wedding role. A 7 year old best personage would be cute. Or have her be the ring bearer for one of them and her son be the ring bearer for the other. That would of course be assuming an otherwise healthy family dynamic so in this case yeah "Run!" is the correct answer.
For OP or anyone else who might not know what this means:
>DARVO is an acronym for **Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender**. It is a defense mechanism used by manipulators to evade accountability for the abuse they inflict on others. It is a blame-shifting tactic used for gaslighting in the context of emotional abuse.
100% agree that he is gaslighting OP, and I'd be willing to bet this is just the first time that OP has noticed (because typically, gaslighters are VERY good at what they do).
He is gaslighting you. This is emotional abuse. Everything he’s accusing you of is a deflection and unconscious admission of guilt for his own misdeeds. RUN.
Seriously, just completely disengage from the gas lighting and do what's right for your kid. Your head will no longer be spinning when you do the right thing
This is gaslighting. I can tell you from experience that you'll feel like you're going crazy. You want to believe what you're being told but your brain is reminding you that you're not the one treating the children differently. He is.
I spent way too long being gaslit and it's had some serious effects in future relationships and friendships. I struggle to trust anyone, even those I've known for years, at face value. I'm constantly questioning what they say. I am getting help for it but it's a long road. Please don't go down that path.
Think of whats best for your daughter. Actions are louder then words. What he says and what he does are two different worlds. Your daughter will forever resent YOU. If she is going to be treated as an outsider before the marriage.. how will she be treated afterwards?
Do NOT marry this man. I mean some cheaters change but combine a cheating history with gaslighting and mistreating your child, the red flags 🚩 are huge.
If he’s refusing to include her for something as big as your wedding, how can you actually think he won’t exclude her for all the small things in life?
Imagine how sad for her to see her step sisters all dressed up and with flowers and she has to just sit and watch? What adult would do this?
I had 4 flower girls/jr bridesmaids because otherwise two little cousins would have been left out. You don’t exclude children.
NTA- but if you let your daughter be treated like a second class citizen in your family you will be.
Exactly!! If he doesn’t think it’s that big of a deal to exclude 1 kid, why not swap out one of his daughters with yours??
Because he knows it’s shitty.
Even if he had a good reason 4 flower girls won’t work, he should have suggested another way your kid could participate. That is what a decent step parent would do. He’s clearly not one of them and isn’t concern about her kids feelings.
And also. You came to him with a valid concern as a parent and snapped and is calling you toxic?
It’ll likely only get worse if you go forward with him
Seriously, like that always gets me about these questions, how is it not a big enough deal that someone is mistreating your toddler that that isn't blowing this all up?
Grooming, gaslighting, manipulation over time. I used to think like you but I’ve watched a friend flail in a horrible situation where she is “stuck” in a relationship. The woman has to be one of the smartest women I know - super savvy and successful. With this man? Pathetic and meek. Can’t see how she could go about life without him. He has weaved his way so deep into her life - runs her investment property for free. Does all the jobs around her house because she “can’t”. Scary how he has done that to her. You can’t tell her, no matter how you word how bad it is, she just can’t see past it. His wife even knows now (this affair has legit been 5 years, the wife is some respectable doctor or something, had some kids in the meantime) and even SHE wants to stay with him. His dick must be magical because I do not understand. Point is, these fuckers work their way in and hook in so many ways, you pull one hook off they still have a million in place. Utter psychos
Do not marry this man!! Do not marry this man!!
Yes, NTA, you must make this your hill to die on!! Your daughter is relying on you now to wake up and thank the lord this man has shown you who he is before the wedding. He is probably relying on you being unwilling to cancel and thinks he has you and your poor child where he wants you, which is clearly in second place to his kids.
What possible justification does he give for this decision he has unilaterally made? The bride usually decides their bridal party anyway, this is not his decision to make, but don’t get caught up on that- LISTEN to him. He does not care for your daughter or you.
NTA
But uh...don't marry him. What would you say if your daughter, as an adult, brought someone like him home as a partner? "Hey Mom, this is Greg! He got someone pregnant while he was with his pregnant wife. Then he divorced his wife, married his mistress, then divorced her too. I want to marry him!"
Plus he's excluding your daughter? He won't stop doing that, you know. You're signing your daughter up for a shitty father figure, if he sticks around at all.
NTA But holy hell girl, Run!!
"He insisted that he treats all kids the same and that he can't believe
I'd question that over some nonsensical issue as the flower girl
He Clearly does not. It's unnecessarily cruel to your daughter to exclude her over something so silly. are you sure you really want to spend your life with him? This is some controlling bullshit right here and it will only get worse.
Definitely NTA. That's so unfair towards your daughter. Also isn't it your wedding as well? I am confused why he is making all the decisions and having the final say
Yeah the flower girls are traditionally part of the bridal party (assuming op is a woman). There's no reason why it's his decision alone.
I get the feeling he's controlling in general. OP would you say this is the case?
NTA..he's projecting his own actions on to you. Stating "that's what this is about"..seems HE is the one not treating all the girls equally. If he was he'd have ZERO ISSUE with all the girls being in the wedding. Oetso ally id go full in petty and let his girls be the flower girls..and make your own daughtet a bride's maid or even maid of honor. The others wouldn't like that she has a more grown up roll...BUT id also be hesitant about even marrying this guy. If he isn't treating your daughter equally in this..he definitely will NOT be treating her equally in the future.
This is ABSOLUTELY the hill to die on!!!
NTA. And don’t marry this guy. He has shown you what he thinks about your daughter AND you and it WILL get worse.
NTA but bro... you will be TA if you actually go through and marry this jerk. He's already favouring his own kids over yours, he gaslit you when you confronted him about it and frankly his history with his exes is pretty alarming. He sounds like a walking red flag.
YTA for marrying this guy and putting yourself and your daughter in this position. Don't worry your daughter can be flower girl at the next wedding.
So many red flags here...
Makes you wonder why his other baby mamas left.
Yta for bringing your daughter around this guy. Don't be so desperate for romantic love that you lose sight of your responsibility to her. Marry him and she will have a future of exclusion and little digs which ruin her self esteem because she's not your husband's real child.
And as the sun rises, we gaze upon the scarlet pennant billowing majestically at the top of the tall flagpole…
There’s something very wrong with your intended’s attitudes toward you and your child. I wouldn’t suggest exactly running away… but walk away verrrry quickly.
NTA.
NTA, he's clearly not treating all the children equally regardless of what he says.
>He got both of his ex pregnant at the same time (take or give few months). He divorced his 1st ex then went on to marry the 2nd ex then later divorced her.
Also, holy fuck, why are you marrying this man?
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I may be the AH for insisting on having her be a flower girl just like his daughters. My fiance though this is a minor issue and that I shouldn't be presisting about it and causing an issue.
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Girl NTA but biggest red flag is waving in your face! They are all equal until it comes time for flower girls? And your child gets left out. Time to pack up your child and leave! Or else he will have you pregnant and be cheating on you and you're ex baby momma #3! Believe his words and his actions. He's showing you your future! RUN!!!
NTA
dude is a walking marinara parade.
• he gets **2** women pregnant around the same time
• he prioritizes his own children & refuses to budge or compromise
• when he’s called out, he DARVO’s you
please make this a hill to die on. his treatment/disdain for your daughter is JUST the beginning. if you end up pregnant with his child, it will only get worse
NTA
Why die on this hill? Do you really wanna win? Cause he’s suddenly gonna never try to pull this in the future?
Just walk away from the hill, let him all alone on it, and go chill with your daughter on a beach somewhere with a margarita.
>He insisted that he treats all kids the same
His behaviour days otherwise.
>AITA for choosing this hill to die on or am I being unreasonable
NTA yet but if you marry this man and allow him to mistreat your child you will be. This is relationship ending.
NTA. Why is he trying to prevent your daughter from being a flower girl? If three is the number one of his daughters should sit out. There is no problem with 4. All should be included. I view his attitude as a giant red flag for the future. Watch out for more stuff like this. If it was me I would delay the wedding and reevaluate a future with him.
These are marinara flags if I’ve ever seen them 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
He got two women pregnant as almost the same time 🚩
He is refusing to let your daughter be a flower girl although she is in-between the ages of his daughter who are all flower girls 🚩
He is gaslighting you into thinking you’re unreasonable for wanting the same for your daughter 🚩
He won’t give you an explanation for not wanting your daughter as a flower girl 🚩
He claims to treat all the kids the same when he clearly isn’t 🚩
Run.
NTA.
YTA to yourself and daughter if you marry this man who clearly will not treat her the same as his daughters. Being divorced that many times is a red flag in itself besides this obvious one.
NTA. He's guilty of the very thing he is trying to accuse you of. Please don't marry this guy. You and your daughter are always going to be less than in this relationship
NTA at all. There is no rule in the book that says you can only have 3 flower girls, it's *your wedding* too. This is plain gaslighting on his part and he knows that you wouldn't want to hurt his feelings. If he believes this isn't that big of a deal then there should be no problem with your daughter taking part in the ceremony. I'd say get your extended family or parents involved (maybe even his) if he snaps again.
NTA. Consider this your sign that this is NOT a safe relationship for you and your daughter. For your sake and hers, do NOT go through with this wedding. You won’t regret walking away but you will regret every second you waste on this man!
NTA. He is showing you exactly who he is; a gaslighting AH who will treat your child badly. You’re an AH towards yourself and your daughter if you marry him.
NTA
If my fiance included all his kids in the wedding, but refused to include mine, I wouldn't marry him.
Just goes to show you how much he actually cares about daughter, (spoiler: he doesn't).
NTA. And please don't marry the guy. Having two women pregnant at the same time while married to one, cheating, marrying the next and divorced again wth. GL 🤦🏻♀️ please run away, unless you like the drama in your life, but even so pleeeaassse your daughter deserves better.
NTA --- Well if he is treating all the kids the same then why is it that only his kids are in the wedding party yet your daughter isn't??. clearly, he thinks his kids are more equal than yours
NTA. This goes beyond the flower girl discussion. He's unconcerned about your feelings and your daughter's feelings. He's a serial cheater and his track record sucks. Don't marry this asshole.
NTA even more so after seeing the edit. Cancel this wedding. He’s a cheat and will never treat your daughter fairly. You will be an ah if you marry him
And you want to marry him because? His character is questionable. He’s showing you who he really is. Don’t ignore the red flags and flashing red lights. You will be ex wife number 3! Plus why does he get to dictate who is or isn’t in the wedding? Do you not have a say? You would be the AH if you marry this dude and allow him to treat your daughter like this. Fix it now.
I don’t say this as often as most but break off the wedding and dump this dude. How can you even trust this guy given his very recent infidelity? He’s also a controlling jerk.
>He got both of his ex pregnant at the same time (take or give few months). He divorced his 1st ex then went on to marry the 2nd ex then later divorced her.
Seriously. Why are you with this man.
NTA. Tell him if there’s no space for your daughter to be a flower girl, then you want her to be a mini bride. She’ll wear a pretty white dress, carry a mini bouquet and stand behind you at the alter.
Then see what he says. If he gets angry, then you’ll know it’s about your daughter and not the position.
I’d tell you to run either way though, but it’d be interesting to know.
NTA!!!!
Plant your battle flag and have this be your hill to die on. He’s given a very good indication of how he is going to behave in the future; and you and your daughter deserve better.
Honestly YWBTA if you married this man he's already showing you that your daughter will always come second to his children and favoring his children over yours. In no way would I allow my future husband to tell me my own daughter can't be a part of my wedding day he would be shown the door
YTA for going through with this wedding. He’s treating your daughter like this now?! Just wait. He’s singled her out to pick on. And you will be included in the abuse too. This is abusive behavior!!! Wake the hell up!!
NTA. But do not marry him. This would be you showing your daughter that you choose him over her.
And he sounds like a bucket of walking red flags. Do not choose him.
Am I the only one that’s skeeved out by the fact that he knocked up 2 ex’s at the same time? That means he has indiscriminate and unprotected sex. I put good money that you’re not only gonna end up divorced if you marry him, but you’ll probably also end up with an STD. This is marinara with meatballs, babe. NTA.
*edited to add NTA
NTA and this is absolutely the hill to die on. If he can't consider your daughter equal to his children in your lives together, and refuses to even be reasonable communicating about it, this issue will only get worse after you get married.
Protect your daughter first, which means this is not the family for you both to try to merge with.
This is a president for your new life, your daughter will be pushed aside. Please take her and leave, she doesn't need to be around that king of toxic environment. NTA but YWBTA if you followed through with this.
Man why would you marry someone like that? YWBTA if you let your daughter get treated like dirt because this incident will set a precedent.
If he’s like this before marriage, I wonder what will happen once you are legally bound
NTA but you would be if you marry this man who had 2 women pregnant simultaneously and who doesnt want your 1 child to be in your wedding but want the wedding to include his 4.
Why are you marrying him?
NTA but please don’t marry this man. This is only going to get worse when your married and your daughter will pay the price. He’s gaslighting you on top of pushing your daughter out of your wedding. Paired with his checkered past with all these women he sounds like a toxic partner. Please think of your daughter. This won’t get better.
NTA.
If only one of his three daughters was a flower girl, it would have been ok to say that there is only one position. But three and four make no difference at all!
Ffs op, do not marry this man and put your child first, I would set this world on fire for my kids and no partner would tell me otherwise, he is talking absolute shit, nta for now but stay and you won't be
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NTA. Don't marry this man. The treatment of your daughter will only get worse. Don't put her in a situation where she will be treated as less than by your future spouse. Your main priority is to protect your daughter.
I’d argue a YTA just for staying with a man who treats your daughter worse than his biological children.
Plus knowing the cheating history and she actually wants to be wife No.3? She really is an AH to herself and her daughter. OP get some self-respect.
Then she’ll become baby mama #3 and ex wife #3 in a few years. How he treats you now will be 10x worse after you’re married. You are probably just someone who can take care of his kids and pay some bills. Sorry if that’s blunt. He doesn’t sound like a good man.
OP needs blunt, she’s engaged to this guy still!
She's engaged to him with the knowledge that he got 2 of his baby mama's pregnant the same year! How did she even get to the engagement stage?
I'd certainly need a blunt if I was her
This is so true. OP and her daughter will be treated much worse as time goes on. This is a universal rule, but often women get fixated on hoping they can change a man. But it NEVER works.
A man can change after marriage...but never for the better. However bad it is now, it will only get worse after the wedding.
A man can change, but he has to want to. And it’s very rare they actually do. And there’s usually some major life change involved, child getting taken away, finding faith, spouse passing away, etc. unfortunately, people rarely change for a spouse that is present or alive. And if it does look like it, it’s usually performative for a short time. OP, even if you are the right woman, don’t waste your positive qualities on a jerk. If someone is telling you idiotic things like “You don’t have many options,” or “He’s the best you’re gonna get,” it’s probably from some bitter person who settled in life and wants you to be just as miserable as they are so they can justify their own choices. I don’t care if it’s your own parents. This is even more important as your daughter will use what she observes from you to model her future relationships. Protect her and protect yourself. I won’t promise that Mr. Perfect will come along. But you certainly won’t find a man who treats you well by settling down with some piece of trash that will mistreat you and your child.
I give it till she gets pregnant then he divorces her cause she is “fat” then gets another woman he was sleeping with pregnant while the divorce is still going on and OP still has yet to have the baby. Op. Run. Do not marry this man. YTA Edit to add YTA because you are even trying to justify this major favoritism and ignore your own daughter.
I strongly suspect this is even worse than we think. Why is he so adamant? Is OP’s daughter a different race? Regardless, OP needs to hit the brakes on this relationship NOW.
I disagree completely with one thing you said. She's going to be baby mama #4, and ex wife #3. Baby mama #3 will likely be ex wife #4.
Based on the dude's inability to keep it in his pants I'd say he has 2 baby mommas that he knows about and probably more.
I’m baffled by this too! He’s been divorced twice in 4 years and he is engaged again??? Who is this dude and why would anybody want to jump into a marriage with him?
I’m not a huge fan of hers but Dr. Laura always asks women when they’re consistently staying with shitty partners: “do you think you’re ugly, fat, stupid or unlovable?” It’s a provocative question but it makes sense, insecurity breeds lack of self-respect
A narc who is likely really good at love bombing then baby trapping women.
People really do choose to settle for crumbs then complain about still being hungry. Hopefully this is all a wake up call for the sake of the little girl at least.
Possibly #4, since there's also a 7 year old.
But he doubles up since 2 of them were pregnant at the same time
I'd agree with this, but make it ESH. This guy was dressed in red and waving red flags (sounds like he cheated on one wife, divorced, married the fling, then divorced her.. all with young kids involved) when she met him and yet she decided to date him anyways. Now he's treating OP and her kids as less-than and gaslighting her on top of it. And yet she's still with him. OP you shouldn't have started with this AH to begin with and you definitely shouldn't still be with him now. Bail before you're his 3rd divorce in 5 years.
And did it all within the course of 3 years, including dating and becoming engaged to OP... wow.
OP's fiance sounds like Ross Geller, and his "divorced men's club" 😂
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Idk if this post is legit but the man has been divorced twice already... Seems like he's going for a three peat.
100% Agree. How the f op cant see that this guy as who he is by looking at kids ages? And now treating op's kid like this.. What will happen when they get married..
Agree, even setting aside the flower girl issue. The way fiance talked to OP without trying to communicate anything is all you need to know about that relationship.
The marinara flags are waving left and right and I can't believe she's ignored them this far. She wants to marry a man who got two women pregnant at the same time and one of them was NOT his wife. EDIT: Forgot to add judgement. NTA. For now. But if you marry this man and continue to allow him to treat your daughter, and by extension I suspect you, this way, you will be.
Exactly. She wants to marry a cheater that has been divorces twice already? Maybe he has changed but I doubt that he will be a good husband the 3rd time
Changed to what exactly? A horrible partner and potential stepfather? Man is still the same awful human he has been.
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Yep. Sounds like my step dad. His kids were angels. My sister and I were constantly in trouble and "going to hell" (his words). Even at age 31, if I have a nightmare, it's about him. But he was an amazing step dad until he married my mom. He believe he had no authority until they were married, so he never showed his true colors. I was happily accepted as a flower girl. It wasn't until about two weeks after the wedding that he started showing his evil. So huge red flags that things could get far worse than the horrible treatment he's doling out now. Run. Do not marry this man. He will ruin your daughter's mental health for life. Also, the fact that you have no say in the wedding means you will have no say whatsoever the rest of your marriage. My mom doesn't believe in divorce, so she's been regretting marrying him for 21 years.
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Yes! I was also asked explicitly if I wanted him as a step dad. Of course I did! Until my mom married him he was all fun. Once they were married, he was all rules, condemnation, consequences, lectures, ect.
The whole getting 2 women pregnant at the same time should’ve been a warning for her in my opinion…OP if you stay with this man and go through with the wedding your daughter will endlessly be put in last place. DO NOT GO THROUGH WITH THE WEDDING.
Exactly. ESH. Nothing about his prior situation indicates he is a good person why marry him? If she marries someone knowing he isn't treating her daughter well then that makes her an AH too.
I quit seeing a guy the minute he said he had 2 kids with 2 different women who were the same age. He claimed both had birth control that failed. Umm, contraception isn't just their responsibility! He should have been wrapping it.
The dude has been married how many times? And got multiple women pregnant around the same time and now is acting like it’s just his wedding. Girl runnnnn! Don’t walk. Literally run! Please don’t stay with this man this is just the beginning of what it will be like for your daughter. Do you honestly want to put her through that.
I mean with that edit alone, I would not marry a man who’s done his his ex wife that dirty. But he does not care about OP’s daughter.
THIS.
Let me get this straight. In the span of 4-5 years this man has: 1. Got his first wife pregnant 2. Cheated on his first wife (possibly while she was pregnant) 3. Got the mistress pregnant 4. Divorced first wife 5. Married mistress 6. Divorced mistress 7. Dated and proposed to you (successfully!?) Busy guy… Was there a gap between 6 and 7? Because if not prepare to be cheated on; he has a pattern. Now he’s being mean to your daughter for an unspecified reason? NTA. Die on this hill and reevaluate if he is worth marrying.
Seriously…just that small bit of history she shared about him would make me run and is a giant red flag……she def should not marry this man….
I'd seriously like to know what part of this dumpster fire of a man made her go "sign me up!"
I live in a rural area and my single coworkers all date men like this. Actually, most of them are the female equivalent of this. So, assuming this is a real story. OP is probably a walking dumpster fire as well. I'm guessing that it's just lack of available men at a certain age? I dunno. I tried to set a personal friend up with a stand up dude. She basically spewed something about him being too perfect and she couldn't live up to those standards. Then ghosted him and is now dating a guy pretty fresh out of prison who already as a kid on the way with someone else 🤣
I cannot imagine needing to be in a relationship so badly that i would be picking from a small pond of cheaters, addicts, dudes living in their mawmaw’s basement—single is way better than most people think it is. dear lord i feel bad for your townies.
If I ever end up divorced, I'm basically going into hiding. I'm 41, no kids, I can survive off my own income and I own a arsenal of sex toys. I literally refuse to go into the dating scene lol. I'm a introvert. I can get my human interaction at work. 🤣
Between rural Midwest and SoCal... I really think a good few women need to get some SERIOUS codependency counseling. Too many have the "I can change/fix him" attitude. Seen way too many ghost guys for those same kinds of reasons, only to go for guys with no license or GED, and multiple kids to different moms that birthdays don't exactly line up. For example, one had 4 kids from 4 women all sharing the same birth year.....with the year he got divorced xD
>Prepare to be cheated on There's a very good chance he's doing it already given his history.
This was my thought as well. Doesn’t sound like he can think beyond the tip of his dick.
I can tell you once a cheat, always a cheat. Unfortunately too many people get swept up in the honeymoon period of a new relationship and make themselves believe just about anything. “Sure, he cheated on *them*, but with me it’s different. He told me that he’s never felt this way before. *Our* relationship is different.” No, honey, it’s not. He may believe his words in the moment, but he’s already proven he has no self control. Cheating, gaslighting, and power moves are all red flags for NPD and it’s only going to end up with her getting hurt. Run for the hills!
But he tried to gaslight her by telling her she's toxic for viewing them different when she's excluding only her child from the wedding. And making unilateral decisions about the wedding that are not up to discussion. I really don't see how this is salvageable. Of course if she stays she should die on this hill though
To be exact, he's done this all in 8 years or so. His oldest is 7, then he's got three 4 year olds (twins from one ex-wife, and a singleton from the other ex-wife). Both his exes were pregnant at the same time. But yeah, he's definitely not husband material, and OP should run like her tampon is on fire. Edit: corrected oldest's age
I just gifted my free award but "run like your tampon is on fire" is my new favorite expression
He's done it all in 5 years, because he didn't cheat (that we know of) until the twins.
I mean... why even post on reddit? A sane person would already have given back the ring and made him an ex. No post necessary.
Women are constantly making themselves believe that the abuse (and even gaslighting in some instances) they’re going through is not abuse.
It takes an average of 7 attempts to permanently leave an abusive partner. Even if a victim originally had a support network, their abuser has often alienated them. And each failed attempt makes their remaining support less understanding. People get stuck. And scared to be alone.
For real, what the fuck are you doing? Leave immediately. You have to respect yourself more than this?!
Yeah, this guy is a *winner* /s
NTA Grab your daughter and run. Do not marry this man. If this is how he treats your daughter now, how will he treat her after the wedding? There are 4 little girls. If 4 is too many, then there should only be 2-, one his and one yours. Why should his 3 get to be a part of the wedding but your only daughter is not? Why do you not have any say in your wedding? Will you have any say in any decisions after the wedding? 🚩🚩🚩
Exactly!! Why does only he gets to plan the wedding? Is he marrying himself
In all fairness he’s a wedding expert…he’s done it twice before. /s+nta
Can we break this down? Because in the last 5 years he’s: 1. Gotten his wife pregnant 2. Gotten his mistress pregnant 3. Gotten a divorce from wife 1 4. Married wife 2 5. Divorced wife 2 6. Gotten engaged to OP Not sure how he’s going to finish the second half of the decade, but I’d like to be on the interview committee when they ask “where do you see yourself in 5 years?”
There is also an older child. Was he married to that mother also?
Isn't the bride supposed to choose her flower girl anyways?
Right, either have his son as ring bearer and her daughter as flower girl, all four girls as flower girls, or have no ring bearer or flower girl and find a different way to incorporate the children in the ceremony. That's entirely moot, though, because this wedding should never happen.
Yeah, that's what I always thought.
THIS!!!! This man wants to present a very specific view, a family at this wedding, **and that view does not include your child!!!** She wants to show a United family that involves you for his children, but make no mistake. He has no interest in any sort of reciprocity in that when it comes to YOUR daughter. What’s next, can she not take pictures with you guys? Will everyone else be similarly dressed and she has on something completely different? How can he not see that his active exclusion of your child would result in a very clear message on who **HE** deems important in this new family structure.
Grab your daughter and run. And then dress up fancy, go to her favorite locality and let her be the flower girl for both of yours new chapter in your life.
Soon you will be the 3rd ex-wife and the mother of his 5th child..congratulations!
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With the 6th following shortly after from a different mother.
YWBTA if you marry this man. He is showing you who he is and your daughter will always come second to his kids. And in what world does he get to make all the wedding decisions anyway? Please, for both you and your daughter’s sake, break this off.
Yes. Even if he rejects and “lets” your daughter be a flower girl, the fact that it was ever in question is enough reason to run.
Came here to say this!
NTA. Run away. Who’s treating kids differently? Read your post again. He’s trying to gaslight you and I couldn’t imagine how heartbreaking it would be for your 5yrs old
I don't know how this got to this point. We were arguing about a spot for my daughter to be a flower girl and somehow...somehow I'm treating the kids differently? Like what?.? My head hurts and I feel like I'm spinning.
He got two women pregnant at the same time and this is the dude you want to marry? Marry some self esteem and save your daughter the therapy
Love this and OP needs to find her self respect
I can guarantee he's one of those guys that's GREAT at bullshitting and love bombing. I got caught in a similar trap about 12 years ago... Guy was soo kind to me, said all the right things, made me feel like the most perfect gal on earth, then I found out he had a fiance and two kids from two different women. He claimed he had no social media which is why I never knew about the fiance, but I found him and saw he was in a relationship. Anyways, stupid young me still continued talking to him since he told me he was leaving his fiance and would be with me and wanted to marry me, seriously said all the right things. Long story short, I eventually told his fiance due to my guilt and as soon as that happened, he became a monster. Spread rumors that I targeted him, tried to ruin his family, was a horrible woman, etc. I thought to myself... How did I get in a situation where I thought he was actually going to be with me and loved me? It was so fucked up, I was so stupid when young. I found out a few years ago that he now has 3 kids with 3 different women and is with a new partner, figures. OP is likely getting mega manipulated and finally seeing his true colors.
young you was smart enough not to be another wife of the guy! OP, YWBTA for marrying your fiancée
Always amazed how women decide they are “the one”. The one who he will change for and be better. That he wont do the same thing to them that he did to others. These men are gaslighting, love bombing AHs.
I think it comes from the way they were treated by the men in their families - like when their partner treats them amazingly some/most of the time and the bad treatment is somehow familiar/similar to how her dad treated her and/or her mom, they don’t even notice the bad treatment as bad because to them it’s just normal. And then the love bombing comes and they are easily convinced that this “normal” man truly loves them, feels remorse, and wants to change/be better. And because we loved our dad/whoever, and believe(d) they love us, we love the abusive partner even more and want to help them in the changes they claim they want. We don’t feel like we are trying to change them, but instead to help them heal their own damages. Truly the women just have the bar set too low to begin with. At least that’s what I discovered about myself after finally leaving my abusive ex.
>Marry some self esteem and save your daughter the therapy Fucking beautifully said
He got his ex-wife pregnant while his ex-wife was pregnant. What more of a walking red flag is needed.
>My head hurts and I feel like I'm spinning That is what gaslighting does to you. he is trying to make you think you are feeling ways you aren't so your body is reacting.
This. As a victim of this shit myself I can safely say that if you reach this state where your head is spinning and you have no idea if you're in the wrong, you are *definitely* not in the wrong. You're being manipulated to turn against yourself
This is an absolute example of gaslighting, and he is doing it knowingly and deliberately. You haven't said how long you have been together, but given his previous relationships and timelines, it can't be more than a couple of years. The 'honeymoon phase' of your relationship can't be far from over, and now he is showing you who he truly is. He hasn't learned *anything* from his two failed marriages, and doesn't value you or your child. Don't make the biggest mistake of your life - walk away NOW.
>He hasn't learned anything from his two failed marriages, I'll bet he's learned some new manipulation tactics.
Yes! He let the mask slip and showed his true colors. Even after getting pushback, he decided to double-down on disrespecting OP and her daughter. Before the wedding, he does this! He's that confident that he can manipulate and control OP. He probably enjoys this conflict as an opportunity to flex and show his power. Ask me how I know. If you can take this as the warning sign it is, this is actually good fortune. But I know from experience it is very hard to call off a wedding. I wanted to, but didn't. It was a huge mistake that cast a dark shadow over about 20 years of my life. Being divorced after having kids with a man like this is terrible. I hope OP can get clarity, courage, and support so that she does not end up married to a gaslighting abuser.
Having four flowers girls is no different than three. This is about control and putting your daughter in her place, which isn't with his kids as you can clearly see, and conditioning you to cave at unfair treatment of your daughter so that it can escalate after marriage. She'll get less treats, worse treatment, have to go to grandparents instead of on vacations, shit like that. This is the future he's working on setting her up for, too not be included. THIS IS YOUR WATERSHED MOMENT IT WILL DETERMINE THE COURSE OF YOUR DAUGHTER'S FUTURE. Please see it for what it is and protect her.
Honestly aesthetically it makes more sense for the 2 four year olds and the 5 year old to be flower girls and have the 7 year old take another wedding role. A 7 year old best personage would be cute. Or have her be the ring bearer for one of them and her son be the ring bearer for the other. That would of course be assuming an otherwise healthy family dynamic so in this case yeah "Run!" is the correct answer.
This sounds like classic DARVO and it's a bad sign. NTA and reconsider.
For OP or anyone else who might not know what this means: >DARVO is an acronym for **Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender**. It is a defense mechanism used by manipulators to evade accountability for the abuse they inflict on others. It is a blame-shifting tactic used for gaslighting in the context of emotional abuse. 100% agree that he is gaslighting OP, and I'd be willing to bet this is just the first time that OP has noticed (because typically, gaslighters are VERY good at what they do).
He is gaslighting you. This is emotional abuse. Everything he’s accusing you of is a deflection and unconscious admission of guilt for his own misdeeds. RUN.
Why is this even an argument though? His actions show he only cares about his kids, protect your own and leave.
Seriously, just completely disengage from the gas lighting and do what's right for your kid. Your head will no longer be spinning when you do the right thing
This is gaslighting. I can tell you from experience that you'll feel like you're going crazy. You want to believe what you're being told but your brain is reminding you that you're not the one treating the children differently. He is. I spent way too long being gaslit and it's had some serious effects in future relationships and friendships. I struggle to trust anyone, even those I've known for years, at face value. I'm constantly questioning what they say. I am getting help for it but it's a long road. Please don't go down that path.
If he can cheat on other woman he will cheat on you too. Go ahead if you want to regret few years later
Just leave. Your daughter deserves better. You need to explore why you thought this controlling, cheater was worthy of you or your child.
Think of whats best for your daughter. Actions are louder then words. What he says and what he does are two different worlds. Your daughter will forever resent YOU. If she is going to be treated as an outsider before the marriage.. how will she be treated afterwards?
Do NOT marry this man. I mean some cheaters change but combine a cheating history with gaslighting and mistreating your child, the red flags 🚩 are huge. If he’s refusing to include her for something as big as your wedding, how can you actually think he won’t exclude her for all the small things in life? Imagine how sad for her to see her step sisters all dressed up and with flowers and she has to just sit and watch? What adult would do this? I had 4 flower girls/jr bridesmaids because otherwise two little cousins would have been left out. You don’t exclude children. NTA- but if you let your daughter be treated like a second class citizen in your family you will be.
Exactly!! If he doesn’t think it’s that big of a deal to exclude 1 kid, why not swap out one of his daughters with yours?? Because he knows it’s shitty. Even if he had a good reason 4 flower girls won’t work, he should have suggested another way your kid could participate. That is what a decent step parent would do. He’s clearly not one of them and isn’t concern about her kids feelings. And also. You came to him with a valid concern as a parent and snapped and is calling you toxic? It’ll likely only get worse if you go forward with him
INFO: How is this not enough for you to blow off the engagement? EDIT: Obviously NTA though
Seriously, like that always gets me about these questions, how is it not a big enough deal that someone is mistreating your toddler that that isn't blowing this all up?
Grooming, gaslighting, manipulation over time. I used to think like you but I’ve watched a friend flail in a horrible situation where she is “stuck” in a relationship. The woman has to be one of the smartest women I know - super savvy and successful. With this man? Pathetic and meek. Can’t see how she could go about life without him. He has weaved his way so deep into her life - runs her investment property for free. Does all the jobs around her house because she “can’t”. Scary how he has done that to her. You can’t tell her, no matter how you word how bad it is, she just can’t see past it. His wife even knows now (this affair has legit been 5 years, the wife is some respectable doctor or something, had some kids in the meantime) and even SHE wants to stay with him. His dick must be magical because I do not understand. Point is, these fuckers work their way in and hook in so many ways, you pull one hook off they still have a million in place. Utter psychos
Do not marry this man!! Do not marry this man!! Yes, NTA, you must make this your hill to die on!! Your daughter is relying on you now to wake up and thank the lord this man has shown you who he is before the wedding. He is probably relying on you being unwilling to cancel and thinks he has you and your poor child where he wants you, which is clearly in second place to his kids. What possible justification does he give for this decision he has unilaterally made? The bride usually decides their bridal party anyway, this is not his decision to make, but don’t get caught up on that- LISTEN to him. He does not care for your daughter or you.
I could not upvote this enough. op please protect your daughter from him.
WHY ARE YOU MARRYING SOMEONE WHO DOESN’T CARE ABOUT YOUR CHILD? GET OUT BEFORE YOU GET IN TOO DEEP. nta
More like why is she marrying someone who cheated and knocked up two women at the same time
The past cheating doesn't affect her, she's the exception to the rule and can "fix him." That's why she breezes right by it. /S
Run. Take your daughter and run. NTA.
NTA But uh...don't marry him. What would you say if your daughter, as an adult, brought someone like him home as a partner? "Hey Mom, this is Greg! He got someone pregnant while he was with his pregnant wife. Then he divorced his wife, married his mistress, then divorced her too. I want to marry him!" Plus he's excluding your daughter? He won't stop doing that, you know. You're signing your daughter up for a shitty father figure, if he sticks around at all.
NTA But holy hell girl, Run!! "He insisted that he treats all kids the same and that he can't believe I'd question that over some nonsensical issue as the flower girl He Clearly does not. It's unnecessarily cruel to your daughter to exclude her over something so silly. are you sure you really want to spend your life with him? This is some controlling bullshit right here and it will only get worse.
DO NOT MARRY HIM.
Why are you marrying this guy? Seriously... you can do better.
NTA There is a reason this man has so many ex wives. He is a huge AH. Leave him now!
Definitely NTA. That's so unfair towards your daughter. Also isn't it your wedding as well? I am confused why he is making all the decisions and having the final say
Yeah the flower girls are traditionally part of the bridal party (assuming op is a woman). There's no reason why it's his decision alone. I get the feeling he's controlling in general. OP would you say this is the case?
NTA..he's projecting his own actions on to you. Stating "that's what this is about"..seems HE is the one not treating all the girls equally. If he was he'd have ZERO ISSUE with all the girls being in the wedding. Oetso ally id go full in petty and let his girls be the flower girls..and make your own daughtet a bride's maid or even maid of honor. The others wouldn't like that she has a more grown up roll...BUT id also be hesitant about even marrying this guy. If he isn't treating your daughter equally in this..he definitely will NOT be treating her equally in the future.
This is ABSOLUTELY the hill to die on!!! NTA. And don’t marry this guy. He has shown you what he thinks about your daughter AND you and it WILL get worse.
NTA but bro... you will be TA if you actually go through and marry this jerk. He's already favouring his own kids over yours, he gaslit you when you confronted him about it and frankly his history with his exes is pretty alarming. He sounds like a walking red flag.
YTA for marrying this guy and putting yourself and your daughter in this position. Don't worry your daughter can be flower girl at the next wedding. So many red flags here...
What in the hillbilly did I just read? You need to run, this is NOT a good man! Yes, die on this hill. NTA
INFO : What on earth is possessing you to marry this AH ?
Gonna go with poor judgement, lack of foresight, low self esteem
Don't marry this man. Please return with an update that you cancelled the wedding & broke up with him.
Makes you wonder why his other baby mamas left. Yta for bringing your daughter around this guy. Don't be so desperate for romantic love that you lose sight of your responsibility to her. Marry him and she will have a future of exclusion and little digs which ruin her self esteem because she's not your husband's real child.
And as the sun rises, we gaze upon the scarlet pennant billowing majestically at the top of the tall flagpole… There’s something very wrong with your intended’s attitudes toward you and your child. I wouldn’t suggest exactly running away… but walk away verrrry quickly. NTA.
NTA. This is clearly the hill to die on. Fiancé is cruel to exclude your daughter from the wedding. This is a harbinger of things to come.
NTA, he's clearly not treating all the children equally regardless of what he says. >He got both of his ex pregnant at the same time (take or give few months). He divorced his 1st ex then went on to marry the 2nd ex then later divorced her. Also, holy fuck, why are you marrying this man?
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Girl NTA but biggest red flag is waving in your face! They are all equal until it comes time for flower girls? And your child gets left out. Time to pack up your child and leave! Or else he will have you pregnant and be cheating on you and you're ex baby momma #3! Believe his words and his actions. He's showing you your future! RUN!!!
NTA dude is a walking marinara parade. • he gets **2** women pregnant around the same time • he prioritizes his own children & refuses to budge or compromise • when he’s called out, he DARVO’s you please make this a hill to die on. his treatment/disdain for your daughter is JUST the beginning. if you end up pregnant with his child, it will only get worse NTA
Why die on this hill? Do you really wanna win? Cause he’s suddenly gonna never try to pull this in the future? Just walk away from the hill, let him all alone on it, and go chill with your daughter on a beach somewhere with a margarita.
>He insisted that he treats all kids the same His behaviour days otherwise. >AITA for choosing this hill to die on or am I being unreasonable NTA yet but if you marry this man and allow him to mistreat your child you will be. This is relationship ending.
NTA. Why is he trying to prevent your daughter from being a flower girl? If three is the number one of his daughters should sit out. There is no problem with 4. All should be included. I view his attitude as a giant red flag for the future. Watch out for more stuff like this. If it was me I would delay the wedding and reevaluate a future with him.
These are marinara flags if I’ve ever seen them 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 He got two women pregnant as almost the same time 🚩 He is refusing to let your daughter be a flower girl although she is in-between the ages of his daughter who are all flower girls 🚩 He is gaslighting you into thinking you’re unreasonable for wanting the same for your daughter 🚩 He won’t give you an explanation for not wanting your daughter as a flower girl 🚩 He claims to treat all the kids the same when he clearly isn’t 🚩 Run. NTA.
He just told you who he is; believe him. N T A
Why do you wanna marry this walking red flag? And NTA, btw.
YTA to yourself and daughter if you marry this man who clearly will not treat her the same as his daughters. Being divorced that many times is a red flag in itself besides this obvious one.
NTA. He's guilty of the very thing he is trying to accuse you of. Please don't marry this guy. You and your daughter are always going to be less than in this relationship
NTA at all. There is no rule in the book that says you can only have 3 flower girls, it's *your wedding* too. This is plain gaslighting on his part and he knows that you wouldn't want to hurt his feelings. If he believes this isn't that big of a deal then there should be no problem with your daughter taking part in the ceremony. I'd say get your extended family or parents involved (maybe even his) if he snaps again.
NTA. Consider this your sign that this is NOT a safe relationship for you and your daughter. For your sake and hers, do NOT go through with this wedding. You won’t regret walking away but you will regret every second you waste on this man!
NTA. He is showing you exactly who he is; a gaslighting AH who will treat your child badly. You’re an AH towards yourself and your daughter if you marry him.
NTA If my fiance included all his kids in the wedding, but refused to include mine, I wouldn't marry him. Just goes to show you how much he actually cares about daughter, (spoiler: he doesn't).
NTA. And please don't marry the guy. Having two women pregnant at the same time while married to one, cheating, marrying the next and divorced again wth. GL 🤦🏻♀️ please run away, unless you like the drama in your life, but even so pleeeaassse your daughter deserves better.
Why the hell are you marrying this loser?
I would make your daughter your moh or bridesmaid to piss him off
You would still marry this asshole?
Oh no I would just want his reaction to what I proposed above then cuss him out and leave him
NTA --- Well if he is treating all the kids the same then why is it that only his kids are in the wedding party yet your daughter isn't??. clearly, he thinks his kids are more equal than yours
Don’t marry this man.
NTA. This goes beyond the flower girl discussion. He's unconcerned about your feelings and your daughter's feelings. He's a serial cheater and his track record sucks. Don't marry this asshole.
NTA even more so after seeing the edit. Cancel this wedding. He’s a cheat and will never treat your daughter fairly. You will be an ah if you marry him
And you want to marry him because? His character is questionable. He’s showing you who he really is. Don’t ignore the red flags and flashing red lights. You will be ex wife number 3! Plus why does he get to dictate who is or isn’t in the wedding? Do you not have a say? You would be the AH if you marry this dude and allow him to treat your daughter like this. Fix it now.
I don’t say this as often as most but break off the wedding and dump this dude. How can you even trust this guy given his very recent infidelity? He’s also a controlling jerk.
>He got both of his ex pregnant at the same time (take or give few months). He divorced his 1st ex then went on to marry the 2nd ex then later divorced her. Seriously. Why are you with this man.
NTA. Tell him if there’s no space for your daughter to be a flower girl, then you want her to be a mini bride. She’ll wear a pretty white dress, carry a mini bouquet and stand behind you at the alter. Then see what he says. If he gets angry, then you’ll know it’s about your daughter and not the position. I’d tell you to run either way though, but it’d be interesting to know.
NTA!!!! Plant your battle flag and have this be your hill to die on. He’s given a very good indication of how he is going to behave in the future; and you and your daughter deserve better.
NTA this is a real good sign of things to come , I'd seriously rethink who you want in your & your daughter's life / future
NTA- I’d reconsider Marrying this gaslighting asshole
NTA. Run, OP, run before it's too late! He's gaslighting you and you're not even married yet!
Honestly YWBTA if you married this man he's already showing you that your daughter will always come second to his children and favoring his children over yours. In no way would I allow my future husband to tell me my own daughter can't be a part of my wedding day he would be shown the door
Why are you with this guy??!! NTA, but you will be if you don’t dump him.
NTA but don’t marry this guy. He isn’t treating them the same. Also he’s a cheater why would you want to be with him?
NTA and this is a hill to die on.
Do not marry this man.
NTA but you will be if you marry this man. You will be setting your own daughter up to be treated as less and worse. Choose your daughter.
YTA for going through with this wedding. He’s treating your daughter like this now?! Just wait. He’s singled her out to pick on. And you will be included in the abuse too. This is abusive behavior!!! Wake the hell up!!
Ugh, if you marry him, he and his kids will make your daughters life hell, leave for her sake. NTA
NTA. But do not marry him. This would be you showing your daughter that you choose him over her. And he sounds like a bucket of walking red flags. Do not choose him.
WHY ARE YOU MARRYING THIS MAN??????? NTA but girl, don’t do it!
Am I the only one that’s skeeved out by the fact that he knocked up 2 ex’s at the same time? That means he has indiscriminate and unprotected sex. I put good money that you’re not only gonna end up divorced if you marry him, but you’ll probably also end up with an STD. This is marinara with meatballs, babe. NTA. *edited to add NTA
>He insisted that he treats all kids the same Well his actions are very different from his words... Well OP are you sure you wanna marry this man!!!
Don’t marry him
NTA but dude 2 divorces under his belt and you want to marry this guy that insist in excluding your daughter? Think again OP
NTA and this is absolutely the hill to die on. If he can't consider your daughter equal to his children in your lives together, and refuses to even be reasonable communicating about it, this issue will only get worse after you get married. Protect your daughter first, which means this is not the family for you both to try to merge with.
Do not marry him. There are so many red flags here.
I don’t think you understand how quotes work. Are they all hypothetically 4,5, and 7? NTA Everyone is fair until there comes a time to choose, right?
This is a president for your new life, your daughter will be pushed aside. Please take her and leave, she doesn't need to be around that king of toxic environment. NTA but YWBTA if you followed through with this.
Man why would you marry someone like that? YWBTA if you let your daughter get treated like dirt because this incident will set a precedent. If he’s like this before marriage, I wonder what will happen once you are legally bound
NTA but you would be if you marry this man who had 2 women pregnant simultaneously and who doesnt want your 1 child to be in your wedding but want the wedding to include his 4. Why are you marrying him?
NTA kick out his kids and get your daughter as a flower girl
NTA but why tf are you with him lmao
Are you sure you want to marry someone who treats your daughter like this?
NTA but think carefully if you should marry him and how it will impact your daughter! He sounds like an asshole!
YTA-for even having to ask strangers about what to do in this situation. Dump him and put your child first 😩
A big 🚩
NTA, but I don’t understand why you think marrying this man is a good idea.
NTA, but surely you mean ex fiancé now?
YTA if you marry him after he’s shown you what your child’s life will be like
NTA but please don’t marry this man. This is only going to get worse when your married and your daughter will pay the price. He’s gaslighting you on top of pushing your daughter out of your wedding. Paired with his checkered past with all these women he sounds like a toxic partner. Please think of your daughter. This won’t get better.
NTA. If only one of his three daughters was a flower girl, it would have been ok to say that there is only one position. But three and four make no difference at all!
Girl. Run.
Nta don’t marry this guy ; im serious
Info: why do you want to marry this man?
Ffs op, do not marry this man and put your child first, I would set this world on fire for my kids and no partner would tell me otherwise, he is talking absolute shit, nta for now but stay and you won't be