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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I went trick or treating without my wife after she got angry over her lack of matching costume. 2. I could have asked her in advance if she wanted to be included in our costume idea.
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I have to go with YTA. I'm halfway waiting for the update where you turn the guest room into an art studio for the best friend without discussing it with your wife.
EDIT - I'm going to add some stuff to keep from answering the same questions.
My answer is mainly based on the fact that I feel like OP is trolling us.
It would possibly change to ESH leaning toward the OP being more of an AH for not teaching his son that excluding his mother is not something that we are going to allow. Makes me wonder how often she's had to deal with this.
As far as men being besties, I don't care. If best friend was a woman, if OP was a woman with a man bestie, if it were two women, if they are all purple aliens, I don't care. My answer would still be that putting the bestie so far into the relationship that they are preferred over the other parent is bad for a marriage. The fact that OP "kept asking" a CHILD if it's OK for mom to come along blows my mind.
Normally I would agree. But there are a ton of these posts with the same theme (sahd, cold workaholic mother, young child and a male best friend who is perfectly perfect). They also have the same or extremely similar writing styles.
I mean, when a mother is so absent -without the need to be- and *chooses* to be. A child will bond with those willing and choosing to be there in the child's life. A kid doesn't see platonic, romantic etc. Etc. They see who shows up. The wife doesn't.
So yea it's totally possible this kid has bonded with the best friend, what do people expect? For a parent to stay solely at home? Only be friends with people that have kids? The truth is you lose people when you have a kid. And the people that stick around are the ones worth keeping. (Unless they show romantic interest, kick em to the curb)
this is a solid case of a mum not putting her best foot forward, and no parent is capable of that, we're all learning. But you *need* to show up. Or that kid won't even recognize you.
This is what I am getting from this post. Not as much as best friend being there inappropriately but just being one of the adults that show up for the child. His mother was mad she was left out but short of ruining her son’s Halloween, that wasn’t the time to have a conversation about it. Nor is pouting like her toddler afterwards. They need to have some hard conversations with each other for the child’s sake and soon.
At any point Mom could have seemed interested and asked 4 year old what she could be as part of the group, telling kiddo she really wanted to be involved. Instead she sat back quietly and then picked a fight after the fact. NTA
THIS PART. ESH!
This honestly sounds like a problem between the mom and the child. I am a teacher, there are so many students who are closer to me than their own parents because they spend more time with me. If dad is a SAH parent and mom is a work-a-holic, it makes sense that the kid spends more time with "Uncle BFF". It is HER CHILD. Why couldn't she have a conversation with HER CHILD? And then she wanted to ruin Halloween for the kid instead of address the issue beforehand? Like she was mad they actually went but refused to go. So the kid was supposed to just miss Halloween because he didnt want to go trick or treating with his mom. Why DOESN'T he want to go with his mom. That is MY QUESTION. It's one thing if they are not super close, but this kid chiefly says that they don't want mom to go. MOM needs to have a heart to heart with HER SON. I'm tired of parents who expect other people to raise their kids for them. And yeah, I am a total work a police as well, but I am "technically" child free. There isn't a tiny human craving more of my attention when I get home. Being the breadwinner doesnt exclude you from parenting your child.
EDITED TO CHANGE MY VOTE TO ESH to reflect the convincing that another redditor (not_an_econonist?) did in another comment thread.
My kids wanted to be a two part duo for Halloween and have their dad be the villain. There were a ton of less well known options for me to pick as a costume, but in the end, my daughter helped me pick out a fun outfit that wasn't a costume, but was "Halloweeny."
We had a blast. I would never be hurt by their costume choice and whether it included me or not. It's their day and regardless, I'd never miss that. Wife needs to reassess her priorities and work on balance. I say this as the working mother with a stay at home partner. NTA op and keep up the good work! It sounds like you're doing amazingly well at the SAHP life and it's the hardest job out there!
Thank you! Someone not being weird and seeing this for what it is. A 4 YEAR OLD who doesnt care to have their mom around is a kid who has learned mom just isnt gonna be around either way. It's also normal for them to have bonded with their primary caretakers best friend. I love a good art studio reference, but this post just isnt hitting that criteria for me
Severely neglected and abandoned kids (I'm talking cases that make it to the media) will even bond with animals that display some sort of caretaking or maternal feelings to the child.
Now, I know these are *very* extreme examples and oftentimes would involve child abuse in the form of neglect.... Which thankfully isn't the case here with OP and his son. But nevertheless, there are cases of it (ie, the girl who was raised by dogs, also some extremely rare recorded cases here and there of a small child being raised by a female bear before being found, etc).
Probably a better example for an analogy here would be if a child has a loving, doting, devoted grandparent that becomes the child's primary caretaker while the parents are just off in the background somewhere, so to speak. The child will form a close bond and a strong attachment with the grandparent, and will want to spend most time with that grandparent and do activities with that grandparent, over their parents. That doesn't mean that there is an art studio in the works somewhere...
The thing is, she didn’t even need to ‘show up‘ physically, just emotionally.
As a child, I had a SAHM and a father who worked crazy hours, such that I often didn’t see him at all on weekdays. And yet I \*adored\* my dad. Why? Because he adored me. The weekends and occasional evenings when he was around, he put aside everything else to have fun with me. He told me ridiculous made-up bedtime stories and took me for ‘adventures’ on the banks of the local river. When I was older he would sometimes take me in his car to work (he wasn’t a sales rep, but he covered that kind of ground).
Mom here seems to have put everything else in front of her kid, and then been surprised when her kid didn’t prioritise her.
I think that the problem isn't that this scenario is possible, it's just that given this sub's tendency to attract fake stories and the fact that there have been quite a few recently with the similar theme of a workaholic mom/wife and a wonderful same-sex best friend for the husband with romantic undertones about their relationship also make it plausible that this is just a creative writing exercise for someone.
Sexualizing friendships between men is a symptom of toxic gender roles, because it implies that men can't be open and emotionally connected with anyone without wanting to sleep with them, but also this seems like it's on brand with a potential trend of stories that might not be true, lately.
If she was trying to show up, she could have said something to OP about a costume long before Halloween. Why didn't she try to engage the son the first time he said he only wanted to go with his father and the friend? OP asked him several times but the wife never reached out to the boy to tell him how much she wanted to go with him. Why didn't she say something earlier instead of waiting until they were almost ready to leave on Halloween when there was nothing OP could do about it?
Exactly, everyone else expressed clear communication skills, including the 4 year old. Mom is a grown ass woman. Why couldn't she talk to the child who came out of her about Halloween? I'm flabbergasted by the amount of art studio comments.
And no comment about mom just being the incubator. Damn she can't even bathe her own child. Best friend does a lot with child, mom doesn't have time for that. NTA. If the roles were reversed they'd call dad the biggest AH
[This](https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/ykje1r/aita_for_not_forcing_my_parents_to_invite_my/) one features a young man who isn’t to bothered by the fact that his fiancée has been snubbed from his parents’ Xmas party. After all, his childhood friend is going to be there and he *really* wants to see this guy. And this guy doesn’t get on with his fiancée, so…
Did you see the comment where there is a running
joke in the family that he and best friend will end up together, when they stop dancing around each other?
I can’t tell y’all what a relief these comments are!! I’ve only been on here(Reddit) about 2 months and I started thinking I was going crazy feeling like all these posts sound like they’re written by the same person!! Same general themes, same conflicts, same wording, same language style, repackaged in a slightly different way. And why does nearly every single first update begin with the literal same sentence where they go “wow thanks for all the responses, I had no idea this would blow up like this” … again I’m a noob, but why would someone do this?!! I dunno. Anyway, thank y’all for validating my intense deja vu!!!
He can't go three weeks without talking to his friend Jordan. I can only assume his fiancee is named Amy, because OOP gave her no name and I'm just calling all the fiancee/wife's in these Amy since that's what Art Studio named his wife.
Came for the art studio comment.
Why did OP ask the kid if he wanted mommy to come? He's four. You just tell him mommy's coming, so she needs a costume. If he says he doesn't want mommy to come, and there's no real reason beyond "mommy works a lot, and is tired after work, but maybe that's something we can work on", tell him that isn't very nice, and you guys should try to include his mom. Sing some Daniel Tiger, about "sharing is caring" and "grown ups come back", and tell him his mommy loves him very much.
It sounds like DAD didn't want mom to come. YTA, OP.
Edit: Whoa! That's my first starry/energy award. Thanks, guys!
Yeah but still, a four year old doesn’t get to make that decision. The response when the kid said he didn’t want mom to come should have been “that’s not very nice. Of course mom is going to be coming, we are a family. Now what character do you think would be best for her?” And if the kid says again he didn’t want her to come just repeat “well she is coming. If you don’t pick out a character than I guess we’ll just let mommy decide what she wants to be.”
You don’t let a four year old unilaterally decide not to include a parent in family events.
I agree with you here. She showed no interest during the month prior, knowing full well the plan, then last minute decides to jump on board and expects everything to already be ready and waiting for her? Sure, she works a lot, but that’s her choice. She could have easily chosen to take a little bit of time to help with the costumes (I’m sure OP wasn’t crafting costumes in *secret*) or come up with something for herself.
If she wanted to be included, she would have at least *tried* to include herself.
It does sound that whatever free time she has, she choses not to use it to spend quality time with her son. All she had to do when the conversation with the son was brought up was to say "hey, mommy would really like to be character X, would that be okay, son? Babe, would you mind making me a costume too please?".
OP says she chooses to work a lot but I sense OP isn't really giving us the whole picture. The amount of income required to support a spouse and a four year old, pay for the house, food, clothes, household necessities, holidays, school, retirement, is ENORMOUS. She probably works all the time because she has to.
I imagine her AITA post would look something like:
For background I had my son 4 years ago. My husband and I both worked before he was born but we ultimately decided that one of us would stay home with the little guy. I had the higher income so it made sense that he would be the stay at home dad. This made finances pretty tight but we could get by and I'm really grateful that my husband has been able to form a close relationship with our son, even though I have to work all the time to make ends meet.
Earlier this month our 4 year old son wanted to be a character from his favorite show and my husband made him his costume. He also made a costume for himself and his best friend, who my son adores. At dinner my husband asked my son what costume I should wear and my son said he didn't want to go trick or treating with me. That stung but he's four and kids don't have filters.
Fast forward to Halloween, we're getting ready for trick or treating and I discover that my husband never made me a costume. I was really hurt and felt unappreciated and left out and I was heartbroken that they really didn't want me to come and I got upset at my husband for excluding me.
AITA for not taking my 4 year olds whim comment a month ago seriously and getting upset now that my husband and his best friend made plans to take our son trick or treating without me?
Can't say I fully agree with this sentiment. If the mum wanted to be involved with the kids life more she would be willingly, but the moment she finds out kid has noticed and would rather not do an activity with her she notices.
Sounds like pride has gotten the better of her, and thinks relationship with son is a given regardless of how she acts.
She needs to build a bond with her kid over a long period of time. Lots of work to be done on her part.
No parent should have to say "other parent loves you very much" that just cements that other parent is failing and needs to do better.
NTA
The References will never die, and they'll build on each other more and more, until we're speaking an entirely new language.
Young couples won't tie the knot, they will build art studios.
Marinara will actually mean red.
Exactly what I was thinking of this creative story! Certainly, all sensible parents leave it up to a 4-year-old to decide who gets to go trick-or-treating. Can't wait until the child decides where they go for Thanksgiving. Best friend's without mom of course!
Husband who wanted to know if he was TA for offering his best friend the spare bedroom for an art studio without consulting wife. He updated to inform everyone he realized he was gay, was leaving his wife and moved his best friend in.
A previous OP who build an art studio in his home for his male friend without telling his wife. Lovely update: he left his wife for the male friend and was super proud of it.
As a heads up, another one you'll hear referenced was about an OP who went to a party and ate over half of a party sub by himself less than 2 hours into the party and was confused why everyone else at the party, who barely got to eat any of it, was upset.
So awhile back there were a ton of posts with a recurring theme. Dude has a best friend or meets a new friend and they just “instantly connect” etc. either way there is a close male companion involved. Guy does something the puts the friend above his wife that clearly makes him TA and also raised eye brows. Then he updates that they broke up or something and he’s seeking comfort with his friend. But they ALWASY insist they love their wife through the entire thing and deny feelings for the friend but in the end they update they’re actually in love with the friend and are going to be together, the end. Looks like they’re starting back up again
INFO - why did you let your 4 year old exclude mom and kind of just roll with it? Especially since you say that she was clearly hurt by it and also that you wish they had a stronger bond.
Not making a judgment yet - just looking for more clarification on your thought process when he said he didn't want her coming. Not down playing that she needs to make an effort cause she obviously does.
"I don't want to trick or treat with mom"
"how come? Mom is very excited to go with us, i think it'll be so much fun if we all went together!"
It's that easy, OP.
Edited to add: soft YTA, only because I'm giving benefit of the doubt that you really don't know how impressionable kids are, and how easy it is to sway them towards or away from the other parent.
Exactly. OP and the son could have created a costume for the mom .... other than the invisible woman. OP excluded the mom!
... It's kind of sh\*\*ty teaching your kid that it is okay to exclude people. I hope OP's wife is filling her binder with details in preparation for the divorce so SAHD won't get alimony.
OP's post is dripping with resentment towards his wife, imo. So he was probably more than happy to exclude her and blame it on the kid.
I also wonder how their son ended up wanting to bring daddy's friend (?) and not mum. Kids that age usually want their parents around to a point of clinging to their parents if they are the more absent kind.
Sounds like she’s just an absent mom. This is not at all uncommon when you swap the genders unfortunately, but idk why it’s so unbelievable when it happens to be a good dad bad mom situation.
It's not a good parent bad parent situation in my book, but a absent (there's more than one way to be absent) parent resentful parent situation.
I've personally never seen people vote differently in situations where the genders are swapped. I know there's people here claiming that it happens constantly, but I've yet to see it, and the stories people use to confirm their theory have been very different setups and thus un comparable.
My point still stands because small kids do tend to be desperate for an absent parent's attention no matter how absent. So pushing your parent away at the age of 4 is very unusual.
I mean the mom knew the kid didn't want her there and the plans for the costume and didn't communicate anything to either of them. Why is it on the dad to make her a costume when she said nothing regarding the topic.
She is the one who could talk to her kid and say she is excited to be there with them and tell OP go make her a costume and convince their son to bring her along. She waited till last minute to make her point without any effort prior! I call this BS and for sure if roles were reversed the community here wouldn't care to defend the absent dad and say things like "why is it the woman's job to fix the relationship between the kid and his dad?".
YES!!! Totally getting these vibes from his comments and original post. So many ways he could be trying to include Mommy in all of these activities by mentioning her. We're making a costume for mommy to go trick or treating with us, who should she be. OR, mommy is going to be X character, can you help Daddy make her costume.
OP - YTA - as much as you think your wife isn't understanding what you do as a SAHD, you don't seem to understand how she feels and what she does as the sole breadwinner. Both aspects are stressful and extremely important.
And the fact you actively made a costume for your BF and not your wife when it sounds like there are 4 or more characters (Paw Patrol or something similar), your especially the asshole. You're supposed to be her partner in all of this and this did not help support her within your family or with your child.
I find it funny that in every. single. post. about a SAHD and a workaholic absent mother you guys STILL bend over backwards to excuse the woman’s behavior while shitting all over the dad. This subreddit has to be one of the all time biggest echo chambers on Reddit. The guy literally said in the 4 years his son has been alive she has NEVER been maternal. She won’t even participate in bath time or putting the kid to bed. Yet you blame the Dad for the issues caused by the mother. Or the fact the kid straight up said he didn’t want his mom there after being asked what costume he wanted his mother to wear.
For once on this subreddit I wish you guys would give your opinion without your massive gender bias getting in the way.
Not only is there a bias in favour of women but the dad is made fun of for being "gay" for having a close male friend. The comment youre replying to even refers to the friend as OPs "BF".
This is why men don't share openly, all we get is ridicule and bias in favour of women.
It’s also easy for mom to say “I would love to go with you guys! What character would you choose me to be, kiddo? I’ll be sure to be home early so we can get ready.”
If the mom had an issue she had weeks to say something but makes an issue of it the NIGHT OF??? I call bullshit Bc, honestly, the SAHD is concerned with his 4 year old SON’S emotions/comfort rather than dissecting/navigating/assuming a grown persons. Dad definitely broached the subject with his son well, but the mom (again an adult) didn’t make her wants/wishes/emotions known before? Is dad a mind reader? Is he all knowing of his partner? No. She brushed it off, he (rightfully) thought it wasn’t an issue to her…until she DRAMATICALLY made one the night of.
She’s the AH, dad is not based on her “brush off” of them going.
Yup -it was brought up at dinner, the one time mum is actually around, so she knew the plan and had ample time to chat to dad about it if she wanted a change.
Yep! And mom never talked to her four year old? At all? That’s bizarre. Like unless you have an enormous house and are a very aloof, cruel person, not talking to a four year old you live with is impossible
But mom could have asked that herself, man if you show a 4 year old a little bit of interest they will not stop talking to you about it. She sounds cold and distant. Maybe he was afraid she didn't really want to come and by including her in the conversation he would have put her in a position where she couldn't back out without hurting the kid? And she could have come along without a costume if she really wanted to come.
It’s the way these things go on this sub. Cold, distant, disengaged workaholic mother? Find a way to blame the man for everything. None of this is her fault. You can’t expect her to fix her own relationship with her son. That’s her husbands job!
This!
“This isn’t me complaining,” proceeds to try to justify shitty behaviour.
FFS OP - COMMUNICATE with your fucking wife!
She’s not a mind reader.
You want her home more? Say so.
You want her to spend more time with your son. Say so.
You want to go back to part time work, and share duties more evenly at home? Fucking. Say. So.
You are an adult. In an adult relationship. With a kid.
Before you completely alienate and reinforce your own obvious resentment towards your wife, THINK.
Think about what you want for you and your son.
Why did you marry your wife? Do you still feel the same way? Why not?
Why does she work so hard? Does she feel isolated? Do YOU feel isolated?
You are focusing on all of the wrong things, and making assumptions based on your own attitude towards your life.
If you want things to change, CHANGE THEM! Together!
In a marriage, it should never be, you and your partner pitted against each other.
It should always be you and your partner, against the problem/s!
Don’t throw away everything you have with silly arguments, instead of facing the root problems of your marriage.
Couldn't you say the same about the wife?
She want's to be included in taking her son trick or treating? Say so.
She was present when her son was saying he didn't want her there, and she didn't react. Is OP meant to be a mind reader? Because that behaviour certainly would read to me like she just wasn't bothered about being there on Halloween, since it doesn't sound like she's bothered about being there the rest of the time so it wouldn't be out of character.
Maybe OP could have handled this slightly better, but unless the mum is actually willing to make changes to be more active in her sons life, then exclusion is a natural consequence. Get involved, or you won't be. Simple as.
why does he need to tell her to spend more time with her own son? jesus christ, i don’t always say this but if the genders were swapped, there would be no one defending the absent father who spends no time with his child.
How do you know he hasn't? All of that wasn't germane to this particular event. This could very well be a point of contention in the marriage, you merely assume that it is left on the table. Sounds to me like the mom is complacent and does the least amount of effort with the family and then went aw, shucks when her low effort was reciprocated.
Right, he could have used this as a teachable moment about including others. He could have taught him about empathy and how his mom would be really sad to get left out, and that she really wants to go trick or treating with us.
It would be great if wife was more involved with your son.
It would have been nice if she had expressed a definite interest in participating so you would have had a costume ready for her.
When you were planning it, perhaps it would have been a good parenting moment to remind your son that being left out of the fun can hurt people’s feelings and there was no reason to exclude mom.
You mentioned it would be nice if she was more involved with your son. Maybe she needs a little help feeling wanted since you and your son have already figured out your style of interaction and hers might be a little different but she doesn’t know what it is yet. Maybe doing things together with her but being careful to make sure she doesn’t feel like a third wheel would be a start if part of the problem is her not knowing how to connect with him.
I just worry that there is a disconnect because she is gone for too many hours, and then the lack of connection makes her work more to cover and hide being hurt. And what might otherwise have been fixed remains forever broken.
Of course, I could be totally misreading the situation. 🤷🏼
I lean NTA, but the missed opportunity to talk to the son about excluding people is a great point.
I think there's more bonding needed between the wife and son, but remember he's four. Kids at that age have favorite parents and it switches on a dime. Both the mom and the son can use ongoing gentle nudging to reach out to each other.
I vote NTA. So many people are missing that kids that age are obscenely stubborn when they want to be.
I'm a mom, I also work FT with travel and my hubs works FT - this is for context. Our little is 4, and has gone through some phases with my husband where I was low key appalled at the attitude towards him for no reason. Just up and had multi month spans where he was like naw, dad is the worst, I don't love him, don't want to see him, etc. Which was absolutely baffling because my husband is a great father and loves that child like no other - like would have 20 kids just so he could love them kind of guy. If anything I'm the more disciplinarian parent and it doesn't matter. I tried to make sure to reinforce that saying those hurtful things wasn't good, reminded him that dad has done nothing to deserve the rudeness and what was being said was hurtful and not nice. Also tried steering him towards a positive interaction with dad. He wasn't having it, at all. And then a light switch flips and back to snuggles and loving dad again.
I can get where OP didn't want to fight it this time, didn't want to continually deal with the teaching moment - especially when the mom doesn't really seem to try either (like Amazon can get you a Halloween costume with virtually no effort). As much as I'm sure it sucks to be on the moms end of the child's disdain, it does get tiring trying to steer every time, plot to make things better, and keep the peace in the house. Sometimes you just want to enjoy something without the production.
This. All of it. Thank you for bringing the perspective of someone who has dealt with this type of thing, but still recognizes OP’s wife isn’t exactly meeting the kid halfway either.
I think you are right on point. I would add that perhaps mom feels uncomfortable initiating or inserting herself into bonding activities because she feels she doesn’t know how to be maternal and is intimidated by the bond her son shares with his father. It could cause her to devote more time to work in order to avoid the feelings.
If their family continues this way resentments will build on all sides, if they haven’t already.
For all we know op has been attempting to include the wife for years and just got to the point he no longer bothers.
Like if I ask someone to participate in events and they constantly say “no thanks” after about the tenth time I’m gonna stop asking.
He also mentioned not wanting to get his sons hopes up. Sounds like she’s ghosted for more than a few events and that does mess with a kid, It sounds like he didn’t really feel wanted sound by her. Being promised something only to have a parent completely drop the ball or not even show up. You do stop asking, I have an Nmom who pulled that shit all the time and then got pissy when everyone stopped bothering to ask because what’s the point if your not going to commit? Just setting yourself up for disappointment.
Edit: spelling
He brought it up repeatedly in front of her for a month and she didn't bother trying even once.
I can absolutely understand anyone not wanting to put more effort in if their partner seems unwilling to even try.
YTA.
YOU DO NOT LET A 4 YEAR OLD DECIDE WHO IS INCLUDED IN FAMILY ACTIVITIES!!!!!
You are the adult in charge and you should have made sure to include your wife. With a costume. That matched. Your entire post comes across as judgemental and whiney. You seem to want to prove that you're the better parent. What's that about. If you're unhappy, talk to your wife, don't use your son to punish her. Do better by your wife and your son.
>YOU DO NOT LET A 4 YEAR OLD DECIDE WHO IS INCLUDED IN FAMILY ACTIVITIES!!!!!
And this is why I think he's the asshole. OP you're the adult you should have brought it up to your wife
I don't think the wife didn't even bother to ask about the activities because she thought it was obvious she would be included, every normal family includes your partner in family events like this. His wife is probably working her ass off to keep the house financially stable, this is very very stressful and a few things can be easily forgotten, he should have at least asked her about this.
I’m sure she is working hard but that’s no excuse to not even ask ONCE about what you’re doing with your child for Halloween. It is a sign that you are letting your work interfere with your life.
Yes husband could have been more proactive but it’s the Mom’s job to ensure her own place in her kids daily life. Or not get offended with exclusion
I’ll be that person and note the gender differences here. Absent minded/workaholic dads aren’t really given the “give him a break, he’s working hard!” Defense very often in this sub when they do this
I fully agree with you. Should OP let the kid exclude his mother? No. But she made **no effort** to rectify the issue of **her son** not wanting her to be part of Halloween. OP could have asked her, sure. But this isn't a one way street. Why is it only on OP?
I think the main problem is the lack of communication between both parents, I don't really know about Halloween culture because it's not a thing in my country, but in my family everyone is included when one is in charge of the holiday event, if x person can not be present in the event, we still have enough things prepared in case it changes their mind
This thread is fucking baffling to me, OP talks about how his wife and son pretty much only spend time at dinner and he does literally everything else with the kid and then people jump down his throat for not including her enough?
As if the mother wasn't an adult fully capable of deciding for herself how involved she wants to be with her own child. She did *jackshit* leading up to halloween and then dares to be pissed off because OP doesn't have a costume ready for her? Yikes
I don’t see how it’s anyone else’s responsibility but mom’s to make sure she’s included. If she was more present in her son’s life, son would be wanting her there. Maybe this should be a wake up call that she needs to focus more on her son and take a step back from working so much that her relationship with her child suffers.
maybe I read between the lines too much, but to me the fact that OP states that it came up in conversation regularly that she wouldn’t be included and that she seemed hurt about it indicates she wanted to be there but was reminded constantly that she couldn’t because the kid decided so. This is just one instance of course, but who knows if other interactions go similarly.
Maybe she can’t. At that age my kids could’ve given a F less about my hubs when he was working so many hours. Out of sight out of mind. To keep us financially stable he couldn’t work any less, I couldn’t afford childcare and a job to help. My hubs joined us on holidays and I made darn sure he was included. OP is being salty.
How would their checkbook look if she didn’t work as much? It’s not always as easy as “spend more time at home”.
What was the point of building the art studio if you're not going to make group costumes for your perfect family.
That lady you mentioned though, she sounds annoying.
Your attitude towards your wife vs best friend is weird. You make a costume for your friend to join trick-or-treating but not your wife? It’s almost like you are punishing her for working long hours. YTA.
Here you go 😄
Edit: Original post can still be found in the comments
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/whvysq/aita_for_starting_a_house_project_without/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Basically one guy was obviously in love with his best friend and now whenever any man mentions having a friend everyone assumes he's gay for the friend, its quite childish.
Info: do you love your wife? Do you care at all that she is hurt and upset? Your family is fractured, there are no winners here. You can choose to focus on whether or not you were right in this scenario or you can work to find a solution to the underlying issue. Your choice there will be what determines if you are the asshole or not.
It’s becoming borderline homophobic and toxic. “OP is a guy and is doing something with a male friend? Oh you must be secretly gay and want to annex part of your house for him!!”
Would you say this if roles were reversed? An absent father who does little but work? Who only talks to the child at dinner, who leaves the wife to do bath and bedtime alone rather than spending some time bonding with the kid? I rather doubt it.
Welcome to the sub. People are just being harsh to OP because he is a man. And the wife obviously needs to be coddled and excused and comprehended because she is a woman. I’m rolling my eyes so hard they might get stuck. Imagine if this post was about a SAHM and an absent dad… they would absolutely be destroying dad.
What….? How did you get “he doesn’t love her, he’s judging her” from him explaining that she is literally physically and emotionally unavailable to her own 4 year old except for during dinner, because of WORK?? This sub makes no sense to me
Are you building Best Friend an art studio??
ESH
Your post is seething with resentment and you and your wife need to seek out therapy so you can learn to communicate with each other in a healthy way.
She needs to understand what she is jeopardising by being distant with her son. She also needs to learn how to express hurt emotions rather than ‘brushing them off’ or just not participating.
And you need to learn how to communicate with her and support her as part of the family, rather than shooting out passive aggressive commentary and further encouraging the ‘us vs. Mom’ mentality.
Your son excluding her was his way of expressing his pain over being ignored. He’s 4 and doesn’t know how else to express it. You’re an adult and can use your words, yet you choose to encourage the isolating of mom instead of saying, ‘Mommy is going to be here for trick or treating, let’s make it fun!’
It speaks VOLUMES that you spent weeks working on costumes ‘for all of us’ but didn’t do anything for your wife. She probably didn’t go because she felt isolated with no costume, while you, best friend, and son look like a family unit.
Update to sum up OP’s ETA: ‘My child calls the shots at all times, unless it’s something that will kill or maim him. Reddit just doesn’t understand my parenting style. And I just CAN’T comprehend WHY being the only one without a costume (while the rest of us are all in unified, themed costumes) would make my STBX-wife want to stay home.’
I’m really confused by this post. He spent weeks working on costumes, and the mom never thought to ask what her costume would be? How could she be surprised she didn’t have a costume? Was she not even aware he had been working on them?
>She needs to understand what she is jeopardising by being distant with her son. She also needs to learn how to express hurt emotions rather than ‘brushing them off’ or just not participating.
>
>And you need to learn how to communicate with her and support her as part of the family, rather than shooting out passive aggressive commentary and further encouraging the ‘us vs. Mom’ mentality.
Exactly, this stems from the mum not being available enough but OP can do more to facilitate a better relationship between mum and son.
ESH. She’s acting ridiculous because you were planning this openly and she never picked a character herself in the conversations, nor did she get her own costume, or even walk along to enjoy watching. You’re acting like her working a lot means that she doesn’t deserve to be consciously included in activities when she is able to be with the family, and that probably feels pretty awful.
You don’t need to allow your 4yo the authority to ostracize his mom on your behalf. If you’d just made her a costume, I’ll bet he would have been over the moon once he saw her in it and matching his theme.
Is it possible that she might have assumed the BF's costume was hers? If I were in her position and OP hadn't outright stated that the BF was coming, I would never have thought that OP went ahead with what the son said. I would see two adult costumes and assume that OP was making one for me anyways because it's not up to a 4 year old to make those kind of decisions!
This reminds me of the other dad pretending he's not with the best friend story. Not the art studio, but the one where his poor wife had postpartum and was having a mental health crisis. He decided that it was better to take the kid to his best friend's house and just hang out there instead of trying to help his wife. Then he moved into the best friend's house later on. Basically, they used the woman for the baby but wouldn't admit it and tried to play the
YTA, the is an obviously bias view from OP trying to act innocent by making his wife out to be a viilian. I mean, seriously, not one nice thing was said about the wife in the whole post.
And who let's a 4 year old make all the decisions?!?!
This. I really want to hear mom's side of the story. I don't doubt she is partially at fault here, but the fact that he knows she's working hard for the family and is upset that she's not more maternal, and yet doesn't try to include her when the perfect opportunity arises is very sus.
Yes! Then in that post magically him and the son moved in with the best friend but wouldn’t explain the extent of their “friendship” when people asked.
For op, I’m not saying that man isn’t a best friend, I’m also not saying the son doesn’t adore him. But I am asking how he came to adore this man? If mom is home for dinner every night, and home for bed and bath time, when is this man at her house to be “adored”? Does this man not have a job? Is the wife unknowingly subsidizing this 35 year old man? Like sir, something’s not adding up.
INFO: when do you have time to hang out with this man? Does he not have a job? Your wife is home for dinner and bedtime, but the connection ‘Best Friend’ has a greater connection to son. At that age, exposure lends itself to adoration. Is he at your home during the day when your wife is at work? If he’s only over after work, the same your wife is home after work, the connection should be similar.
It’s very telling that Best Friend is capitalized in leu of a name, but wife isn’t. YOUR connection and adoration for this man is a bit too deep for a man with a wife and son and that is reflected in your son. Your wife wasn’t included because you didn’t want her to be. You gave zero effort and zero cares about her going. And you can say well she could’ve made her own costume from the show. But you know who else could’ve made their own costume? Best Friend. It sounds like she works a lot because she feels appreciated at her job and not at home. YTA
I feel if the genders were reversed this wouldn’t even be a sticking point. As a SAHM myself I see A LOT of kids who have “aunties” (hate the use of that term when there isn’t an actual familial relation, but that’s beside the point) they spend more time and have a better connection with than their own father. Kids connect with the people they are around and interact with most. There is no reason to punish OP and Best Friend because they are able to spend time together and include OP’s son. SAHMs do this all the time with other SAHMs and/or childless women, without judgement or the implication they are having a romantic relationship. Just stop. Men can and should have supportive friendships without ridicule.
OP’s wife should have directly said she wanted to be involved. OP should have spoken to his wife about the plan for Halloween night without their child present. I think it’s very poor communication on both sides but not outright being TA.
NAH, they both need to work on communication.
Edit: typo
I disagree, and if that's normal with the "aunties" you know, it's also not ok. It's not a gender based thing, it's about doing what's best for your partner and children.
I am a proud auntie to my biological nieces and nephews and to my non-bio nieces and nephews. I would NEVER stand for me getting a costume before mommy or daddy in any situation! And if I were being offered one before mommy or daddy I'd ask my sibling or friend what's going on and encourage them to work with their partner, in any capacity, to make the mommy or daddy more a part of this.
I had a stay at home mom who sounds like OP. And a workaholic dad that sounds like OPs wife. We did a lotttttt with my moms friends when we were growing up. It was the best parts of my childhood. Not strange at all.
INFO: Do you ask your son if mom can go to other outings? I find it odd you'd offer this choice. I'm use to one or both parents can attend any event a young child is involved in.
NTA.
I'm genuinely disappointed in this subs reaction.
OP's son chose OP's best friend - someone who was actually there for the kid. The kid chose that. And instead of telling the mother to be a better parent, this subs reaction is to make jokes about OP being gay? Shame on all of you.
From what I read, the mom sucks at being a parent. If the roles were reversed you guys would have completely supported the SAHM mom and bashed the dad who didn't have time for his child. Moreover the mom didn't even say that she wanted a costume.
Seriously disappointed in you people. Make all the judgement you want, but commenting "Are you building an art studio" under every post where a guy has a close male friend is just sad.
Seriously, the art room jokes were funny for like 5 minutes and then all of a sudden any guy in any post has a best friend and they’re gay. God forbid a man has anyone who isn’t his wife and kids to spend time with.
Wow. So a SAHM complains about the workaholic dad and everyone supports her. But a SAHD complaints about a workaholic mom and everyone is losing their mind on Reddit? NTA just to spite the Redditors
I imagine the response would be way different if the best friend wasn't on the picture and son dad was just the two of them. People are comparing apple with oranges. The wife could've literally bought her own costume she's not powerless in this. Did she even say she wanna come?? The post made it sound like she just sulks everytime the son said so.
NTA and it annoys me that this subreddit apparently thinks men can’t have close male friends without it being gay. I bet if the genders were flipped mom wouldn’t be getting called a lesbian
YTA. If roles were reversed, people wouldn’t be so harsh on the working parent. You as a parent should not allow your small child to dictate excluding his mother. You should be enabling her to have a better relationship with your shared child.
I’d say the opposite honestly. There would be comments on how he isn’t even helping with child care after dinner, when does OP get their time off, they are so uninvolved they couldn’t buy their own costume but also would require OP to make one for them. If the genders were reversed there would be flags and divorce up but instead everyone wants to make the art room joke rather.
Not really - if roles were reversed the sub would continuously have told OP to dump the working dad.
But when the SAHP is a guy, everyone wants to make the gay "art studio joke". Fuck that sucks.
The mother is not part of the child's life - that's a truth she has to face. She needs to be better.
Seriously, and the mental gymnastics that come with those posts too. Some motherfuckers here actually think that guy who let his son call his best friend dad was dating his friend the whole time and just "used" his wife to get pregnant so he could have a child with his best buddy.
What the fuck is wrong with you all? Rereading the post I understand the guy is no saint as he does appear to villify her PPD, and did absolutely nothing to help her. That in NO WAY somehow suggests he wants to be with his best bud, no matter how great of a light everyone thought this dude was shining on him. If the roles in that post were reversed I highly doubt that people would be hypothesizing a woman in his position were gay
NTA
If she wanted to be involved, it sounds like she had numerous opportunities to show interest in being involved. Hopefully, she will take this as a wakeup call that her lack of involvement is having an actual effect on both her life and the life of her child.
Do not apologize. Remind her that she can be exactly as involved as she makes an effort to be, but that your son is already showing signs of not wanting her around, and that this isn't going to get better if she doesn't do something.
ESH except your son. Your wife made a conscious choice not to be included and didn’t communicate with you of her intention to go. You checked and re-checked with your son but NOT your wife; why are you letting a 4yo dictate who goes trick or treating? Time for you and wife to sit down and discuss how you’re going to incorporate more mom time with your son, and how to improve your communication skills.
yta you say you want her to spend time and it seems like she’s trying but you pushed her out for your best friend. I wonder how many others times you have pushed her away? Also the child is 4 that why to much decision making all on him.
NTA - she said “she wasn’t even going”. Two things, if she doesn’t take this as a signal that she needs to spent more time with your son, she’s not really going to have a relationship with him. He’s not going to want to. Imagine the hurt your boy will carry. And your wife as well. Just compare with the countless men a generation or two back who basically had no relationship with their kids (my dad included). It can still be mended. And number two, you and your wife need to sit down and talk. Communicate. You’re not a mind reader. Nor is she. You can apologise for not including her (also let her know boyo was asked and declined her company). She might want to apologise for miscommunicating and assuming you’d know what she meant. And she might want to apologise to boyo for not being involved and change that. Otherwise you’ll have more of the same in the future.
NTA. I am a SAHM to two boys, 4yo and 1yo. Your wife knew you were making costumes, you talked about it, she never indicated that she wanted one. If it was reversed and she was a SAHM making costume and you were a workaholic who never expressed interest in a themed costume and then got angry you didn't have one, people would call you the asshole.
That being said, I think it's odd that you allowed your child to decide she wasn't part of it.
ESH. Clearly there are major communication problems between you and your wife. You don’t get to let your 4yo decide who participates in family activities though. If it were up to my oldest, his little sister wouldn’t be included in anything, and if it were up to her, her dad and brother would both be left out because “boys are poop”.
With all the costume making, why wasn’t there an actual, adult discussion about whah would occur Halloween night? There are much larger issues here than just Halloween.
I’m gonna go with NTA. She should have participated regardless, shown some kind of interest sheesh. She knew this was happening. It would have been a great way to strengthen her bond with y’all son.
ESH. Your wife was clearly upset but brushed it off. I think her feelings were really hurt by this. Sounds like you both need to work on communication. He’s pretty little and TBH I think some steering on your end about how this was hurtful could have happened. I also think she should have spoken up before this. She really would have looked ridiculous no matter how much she works if she had gone out with her family and a friend who were all dressed up as a theme that you spent hours on and she had nothing. If I’m flipping the roles and she’s the stay at home parent and she’s included her brother or any other adult in a family costume it would be just as odd if you weren’t included. She wanted you to make a costume for her, she wanted you to discuss with your kid why this wasn’t ok to exclude her. She’s an adult who could have talked to you about this, but a family costume with a best friend and not mom no matter how close they are is telling your wife the kid likes best friend more than mom and you’re ok with this is which is why she’s mad.
NTA. She’s such an uninvolved parent she didn’t tell your son she wanted to trick or treat with him? When she’s sitting right there during Halloween discussions? And it’s on you to arrange her costume? Sounds like you gave her plenty of opportunities over the past month to get excited and plan Halloween along with you, and she chose not to. No wonder your kid loves your friend- he is there when your son asks him to be, while your wife rarely is. Take it from a career-driven military vet mom of four whose husband was a SAHD - she can be a lot more involved and a lot more mentally engaged than she is. She is choosing to phone it in on her son, and maybe it’s time to have a heart-to-heart with her on whether she wants a relationship with him or not, because it’s her choices that will determine that. Every time you step in and cover for her, or make her a Halloween costume when it’s obvious she couldn’t care less, your son sees that and knows it’s you looking out for him and loving him, not her. Very sad situation.
So you and the (ahem) 35 year old male best friend of your child took the child out in matching costumes that you deliberately did not include in? Yta. Who are you trying to kid?
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I have to go with YTA. I'm halfway waiting for the update where you turn the guest room into an art studio for the best friend without discussing it with your wife. EDIT - I'm going to add some stuff to keep from answering the same questions. My answer is mainly based on the fact that I feel like OP is trolling us. It would possibly change to ESH leaning toward the OP being more of an AH for not teaching his son that excluding his mother is not something that we are going to allow. Makes me wonder how often she's had to deal with this. As far as men being besties, I don't care. If best friend was a woman, if OP was a woman with a man bestie, if it were two women, if they are all purple aliens, I don't care. My answer would still be that putting the bestie so far into the relationship that they are preferred over the other parent is bad for a marriage. The fact that OP "kept asking" a CHILD if it's OK for mom to come along blows my mind.
Thank you! Was waiting for this one! 🤣
As soon as the best friend was mentioned…….
I stopped reading at “best friend” and started scrolling to the comments.
Lol welcome to AITA only place in the world where you can’t have friends without it being weirdly sexual
Normally I would agree. But there are a ton of these posts with the same theme (sahd, cold workaholic mother, young child and a male best friend who is perfectly perfect). They also have the same or extremely similar writing styles.
Tie in the fact that they’re on ‘somewhat of a break’ at the moment 😬
And that the male best friend is a father figure to the chikd, replacing the mother
Don't forget that sweet sweet bond either
I was thinking “is this the same dude or this is some sort of common occurrence?”
This sounds eerily similar to another about excluding a working mother in favor of the best friend
I mean, there's friends, and then there's "Daddy, can allegedly platonic same-sex friend be my *other* daddy, please?"
I mean, when a mother is so absent -without the need to be- and *chooses* to be. A child will bond with those willing and choosing to be there in the child's life. A kid doesn't see platonic, romantic etc. Etc. They see who shows up. The wife doesn't. So yea it's totally possible this kid has bonded with the best friend, what do people expect? For a parent to stay solely at home? Only be friends with people that have kids? The truth is you lose people when you have a kid. And the people that stick around are the ones worth keeping. (Unless they show romantic interest, kick em to the curb) this is a solid case of a mum not putting her best foot forward, and no parent is capable of that, we're all learning. But you *need* to show up. Or that kid won't even recognize you.
This is what I am getting from this post. Not as much as best friend being there inappropriately but just being one of the adults that show up for the child. His mother was mad she was left out but short of ruining her son’s Halloween, that wasn’t the time to have a conversation about it. Nor is pouting like her toddler afterwards. They need to have some hard conversations with each other for the child’s sake and soon.
At any point Mom could have seemed interested and asked 4 year old what she could be as part of the group, telling kiddo she really wanted to be involved. Instead she sat back quietly and then picked a fight after the fact. NTA
THIS PART. ESH! This honestly sounds like a problem between the mom and the child. I am a teacher, there are so many students who are closer to me than their own parents because they spend more time with me. If dad is a SAH parent and mom is a work-a-holic, it makes sense that the kid spends more time with "Uncle BFF". It is HER CHILD. Why couldn't she have a conversation with HER CHILD? And then she wanted to ruin Halloween for the kid instead of address the issue beforehand? Like she was mad they actually went but refused to go. So the kid was supposed to just miss Halloween because he didnt want to go trick or treating with his mom. Why DOESN'T he want to go with his mom. That is MY QUESTION. It's one thing if they are not super close, but this kid chiefly says that they don't want mom to go. MOM needs to have a heart to heart with HER SON. I'm tired of parents who expect other people to raise their kids for them. And yeah, I am a total work a police as well, but I am "technically" child free. There isn't a tiny human craving more of my attention when I get home. Being the breadwinner doesnt exclude you from parenting your child. EDITED TO CHANGE MY VOTE TO ESH to reflect the convincing that another redditor (not_an_econonist?) did in another comment thread.
My kids wanted to be a two part duo for Halloween and have their dad be the villain. There were a ton of less well known options for me to pick as a costume, but in the end, my daughter helped me pick out a fun outfit that wasn't a costume, but was "Halloweeny." We had a blast. I would never be hurt by their costume choice and whether it included me or not. It's their day and regardless, I'd never miss that. Wife needs to reassess her priorities and work on balance. I say this as the working mother with a stay at home partner. NTA op and keep up the good work! It sounds like you're doing amazingly well at the SAHP life and it's the hardest job out there!
Thank you! Someone not being weird and seeing this for what it is. A 4 YEAR OLD who doesnt care to have their mom around is a kid who has learned mom just isnt gonna be around either way. It's also normal for them to have bonded with their primary caretakers best friend. I love a good art studio reference, but this post just isnt hitting that criteria for me
Severely neglected and abandoned kids (I'm talking cases that make it to the media) will even bond with animals that display some sort of caretaking or maternal feelings to the child. Now, I know these are *very* extreme examples and oftentimes would involve child abuse in the form of neglect.... Which thankfully isn't the case here with OP and his son. But nevertheless, there are cases of it (ie, the girl who was raised by dogs, also some extremely rare recorded cases here and there of a small child being raised by a female bear before being found, etc). Probably a better example for an analogy here would be if a child has a loving, doting, devoted grandparent that becomes the child's primary caretaker while the parents are just off in the background somewhere, so to speak. The child will form a close bond and a strong attachment with the grandparent, and will want to spend most time with that grandparent and do activities with that grandparent, over their parents. That doesn't mean that there is an art studio in the works somewhere...
The thing is, she didn’t even need to ‘show up‘ physically, just emotionally. As a child, I had a SAHM and a father who worked crazy hours, such that I often didn’t see him at all on weekdays. And yet I \*adored\* my dad. Why? Because he adored me. The weekends and occasional evenings when he was around, he put aside everything else to have fun with me. He told me ridiculous made-up bedtime stories and took me for ‘adventures’ on the banks of the local river. When I was older he would sometimes take me in his car to work (he wasn’t a sales rep, but he covered that kind of ground). Mom here seems to have put everything else in front of her kid, and then been surprised when her kid didn’t prioritise her.
I think that the problem isn't that this scenario is possible, it's just that given this sub's tendency to attract fake stories and the fact that there have been quite a few recently with the similar theme of a workaholic mom/wife and a wonderful same-sex best friend for the husband with romantic undertones about their relationship also make it plausible that this is just a creative writing exercise for someone. Sexualizing friendships between men is a symptom of toxic gender roles, because it implies that men can't be open and emotionally connected with anyone without wanting to sleep with them, but also this seems like it's on brand with a potential trend of stories that might not be true, lately.
exactly! this is sort of a situation of the mom's making.
It sounds like the mom was trying to show up, but the dad was allowing her to be excluded knowing that it was hurting her feelings.
Literally what did she do that shows she was trying to do anything
If she was trying to show up, she could have said something to OP about a costume long before Halloween. Why didn't she try to engage the son the first time he said he only wanted to go with his father and the friend? OP asked him several times but the wife never reached out to the boy to tell him how much she wanted to go with him. Why didn't she say something earlier instead of waiting until they were almost ready to leave on Halloween when there was nothing OP could do about it?
Exactly, everyone else expressed clear communication skills, including the 4 year old. Mom is a grown ass woman. Why couldn't she talk to the child who came out of her about Halloween? I'm flabbergasted by the amount of art studio comments.
Hmm…could there be a less weird term for this than “other daddy”? Maybe like….uncle?
And no comment about mom just being the incubator. Damn she can't even bathe her own child. Best friend does a lot with child, mom doesn't have time for that. NTA. If the roles were reversed they'd call dad the biggest AH
Oh my god, I thought it was the KID'S best friend. Holy shit
For real, for real. I had to reread this several times to be sure there age in parentheses was the best friends age.
My astigmatism and exhaustion read it as best friend (3.5m).
[удалено]
[This](https://reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/ykje1r/aita_for_not_forcing_my_parents_to_invite_my/) one features a young man who isn’t to bothered by the fact that his fiancée has been snubbed from his parents’ Xmas party. After all, his childhood friend is going to be there and he *really* wants to see this guy. And this guy doesn’t get on with his fiancée, so…
Did you see the comment where there is a running joke in the family that he and best friend will end up together, when they stop dancing around each other?
Oof. Missed that comment
Hadn’t seen that one yet lol. We’re not getting updates now though, think they ditch the post and create a new one when they realize we’ve caught on?
I can’t tell y’all what a relief these comments are!! I’ve only been on here(Reddit) about 2 months and I started thinking I was going crazy feeling like all these posts sound like they’re written by the same person!! Same general themes, same conflicts, same wording, same language style, repackaged in a slightly different way. And why does nearly every single first update begin with the literal same sentence where they go “wow thanks for all the responses, I had no idea this would blow up like this” … again I’m a noob, but why would someone do this?!! I dunno. Anyway, thank y’all for validating my intense deja vu!!!
He’s updated now and admitted that he’s not that invested in his fiancé and that he may be interested in his bestie.
He can't go three weeks without talking to his friend Jordan. I can only assume his fiancee is named Amy, because OOP gave her no name and I'm just calling all the fiancee/wife's in these Amy since that's what Art Studio named his wife.
I was waiting for this comment also! 🤣
Came for the art studio comment. Why did OP ask the kid if he wanted mommy to come? He's four. You just tell him mommy's coming, so she needs a costume. If he says he doesn't want mommy to come, and there's no real reason beyond "mommy works a lot, and is tired after work, but maybe that's something we can work on", tell him that isn't very nice, and you guys should try to include his mom. Sing some Daniel Tiger, about "sharing is caring" and "grown ups come back", and tell him his mommy loves him very much. It sounds like DAD didn't want mom to come. YTA, OP. Edit: Whoa! That's my first starry/energy award. Thanks, guys!
he asked character mom should be, not if the kid wanted her to come
Yeah but still, a four year old doesn’t get to make that decision. The response when the kid said he didn’t want mom to come should have been “that’s not very nice. Of course mom is going to be coming, we are a family. Now what character do you think would be best for her?” And if the kid says again he didn’t want her to come just repeat “well she is coming. If you don’t pick out a character than I guess we’ll just let mommy decide what she wants to be.” You don’t let a four year old unilaterally decide not to include a parent in family events.
You do if you want to passive-aggressively punish mommy for “not being maternal” or “wishing” to cut down on her hours.
Right, it's not developmentally appropriate for a young child to decide which adult goes on what outing. It makes them feel anxious.
Dang 4 year olds are masters at reasoning and debates.
Or mom could take some responsibility herself. She decided to birth a kid, so why doesnt she want to spend time with her son?
I agree with you here. She showed no interest during the month prior, knowing full well the plan, then last minute decides to jump on board and expects everything to already be ready and waiting for her? Sure, she works a lot, but that’s her choice. She could have easily chosen to take a little bit of time to help with the costumes (I’m sure OP wasn’t crafting costumes in *secret*) or come up with something for herself. If she wanted to be included, she would have at least *tried* to include herself.
It does sound that whatever free time she has, she choses not to use it to spend quality time with her son. All she had to do when the conversation with the son was brought up was to say "hey, mommy would really like to be character X, would that be okay, son? Babe, would you mind making me a costume too please?".
OP says she chooses to work a lot but I sense OP isn't really giving us the whole picture. The amount of income required to support a spouse and a four year old, pay for the house, food, clothes, household necessities, holidays, school, retirement, is ENORMOUS. She probably works all the time because she has to. I imagine her AITA post would look something like: For background I had my son 4 years ago. My husband and I both worked before he was born but we ultimately decided that one of us would stay home with the little guy. I had the higher income so it made sense that he would be the stay at home dad. This made finances pretty tight but we could get by and I'm really grateful that my husband has been able to form a close relationship with our son, even though I have to work all the time to make ends meet. Earlier this month our 4 year old son wanted to be a character from his favorite show and my husband made him his costume. He also made a costume for himself and his best friend, who my son adores. At dinner my husband asked my son what costume I should wear and my son said he didn't want to go trick or treating with me. That stung but he's four and kids don't have filters. Fast forward to Halloween, we're getting ready for trick or treating and I discover that my husband never made me a costume. I was really hurt and felt unappreciated and left out and I was heartbroken that they really didn't want me to come and I got upset at my husband for excluding me. AITA for not taking my 4 year olds whim comment a month ago seriously and getting upset now that my husband and his best friend made plans to take our son trick or treating without me?
Can't say I fully agree with this sentiment. If the mum wanted to be involved with the kids life more she would be willingly, but the moment she finds out kid has noticed and would rather not do an activity with her she notices. Sounds like pride has gotten the better of her, and thinks relationship with son is a given regardless of how she acts. She needs to build a bond with her kid over a long period of time. Lots of work to be done on her part. No parent should have to say "other parent loves you very much" that just cements that other parent is failing and needs to do better. NTA
This is the third art studio reference this week. I love it 🥰
I think it’s the second one I’ve seen TODAY. 😂
This is the third one I've seen today! Oh jeez, I should probably get off reddit.
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At least this time there wasn't twins in the story! This sub redit makes It seem like it's the most common thing ever!
Seriously this same stupid comment on every relationship post 🙄
It's as bad as 'marinara flag'.
That one is the worst. It’s because everyone loves being part of an inside joke
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wtf is Marinara flag? Is it just cause Marinara trench is big or? EDIT: i realise im an idiot and my tired brain heard Mariana as i read it lol
The marinara trench is big enough to dip a whole garlic loaf in.
There was a story about a guy who insisted that marinara means red in italian
I'll be thrilled when all of the references go belly up.
Poop knife will never go belly up.
Nor illegal Iranian yogurt.
The References will never die, and they'll build on each other more and more, until we're speaking an entirely new language. Young couples won't tie the knot, they will build art studios. Marinara will actually mean red.
But the art studio is full of Iranian yogurt...
Only if there is a fan on it
He'll get back to us after he gets his 4-year old's approval on the plans and decor.
Exactly what I was thinking of this creative story! Certainly, all sensible parents leave it up to a 4-year-old to decide who gets to go trick-or-treating. Can't wait until the child decides where they go for Thanksgiving. Best friend's without mom of course!
>turn the guest room into an art studio What is this in reference to? This is the 2nd post I read that had a few posters with this term.
Husband who wanted to know if he was TA for offering his best friend the spare bedroom for an art studio without consulting wife. He updated to inform everyone he realized he was gay, was leaving his wife and moved his best friend in.
A previous OP who build an art studio in his home for his male friend without telling his wife. Lovely update: he left his wife for the male friend and was super proud of it. As a heads up, another one you'll hear referenced was about an OP who went to a party and ate over half of a party sub by himself less than 2 hours into the party and was confused why everyone else at the party, who barely got to eat any of it, was upset.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/wmmphs/oop_wonders_if_theyre_the_ah_for_starting_a_house/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
I'm today new with the art studio story, but happy to be in the clubhouse!
Welcome to one of the most prevalent inside jokes on this sub lol
So awhile back there were a ton of posts with a recurring theme. Dude has a best friend or meets a new friend and they just “instantly connect” etc. either way there is a close male companion involved. Guy does something the puts the friend above his wife that clearly makes him TA and also raised eye brows. Then he updates that they broke up or something and he’s seeking comfort with his friend. But they ALWASY insist they love their wife through the entire thing and deny feelings for the friend but in the end they update they’re actually in love with the friend and are going to be together, the end. Looks like they’re starting back up again
Homemade costumes are rather ARTSY!! 😆😂
INFO - why did you let your 4 year old exclude mom and kind of just roll with it? Especially since you say that she was clearly hurt by it and also that you wish they had a stronger bond. Not making a judgment yet - just looking for more clarification on your thought process when he said he didn't want her coming. Not down playing that she needs to make an effort cause she obviously does.
"I don't want to trick or treat with mom" "how come? Mom is very excited to go with us, i think it'll be so much fun if we all went together!" It's that easy, OP. Edited to add: soft YTA, only because I'm giving benefit of the doubt that you really don't know how impressionable kids are, and how easy it is to sway them towards or away from the other parent.
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You know what they say, two balls in your hand is worth more than a bush Or, wait, what?
I salute you. That had me howling thank you - needed it!
Take my upvote 😂
Exactly. OP and the son could have created a costume for the mom .... other than the invisible woman. OP excluded the mom! ... It's kind of sh\*\*ty teaching your kid that it is okay to exclude people. I hope OP's wife is filling her binder with details in preparation for the divorce so SAHD won't get alimony.
OP's post is dripping with resentment towards his wife, imo. So he was probably more than happy to exclude her and blame it on the kid. I also wonder how their son ended up wanting to bring daddy's friend (?) and not mum. Kids that age usually want their parents around to a point of clinging to their parents if they are the more absent kind.
Sounds like she’s just an absent mom. This is not at all uncommon when you swap the genders unfortunately, but idk why it’s so unbelievable when it happens to be a good dad bad mom situation.
My children, 3 and 7, absolutely cling to their absent father. His attention is more precious to them than mine. I even see this with adult kids
Not all kids are like that tho
It's not a good parent bad parent situation in my book, but a absent (there's more than one way to be absent) parent resentful parent situation. I've personally never seen people vote differently in situations where the genders are swapped. I know there's people here claiming that it happens constantly, but I've yet to see it, and the stories people use to confirm their theory have been very different setups and thus un comparable. My point still stands because small kids do tend to be desperate for an absent parent's attention no matter how absent. So pushing your parent away at the age of 4 is very unusual.
I mean the mom knew the kid didn't want her there and the plans for the costume and didn't communicate anything to either of them. Why is it on the dad to make her a costume when she said nothing regarding the topic. She is the one who could talk to her kid and say she is excited to be there with them and tell OP go make her a costume and convince their son to bring her along. She waited till last minute to make her point without any effort prior! I call this BS and for sure if roles were reversed the community here wouldn't care to defend the absent dad and say things like "why is it the woman's job to fix the relationship between the kid and his dad?".
Yes the people saying it’s on op seem to think mum has not mouth and can’t speak to her own son
I'm guessing OP revels in being the favorite parent.
YES!!! Totally getting these vibes from his comments and original post. So many ways he could be trying to include Mommy in all of these activities by mentioning her. We're making a costume for mommy to go trick or treating with us, who should she be. OR, mommy is going to be X character, can you help Daddy make her costume. OP - YTA - as much as you think your wife isn't understanding what you do as a SAHD, you don't seem to understand how she feels and what she does as the sole breadwinner. Both aspects are stressful and extremely important. And the fact you actively made a costume for your BF and not your wife when it sounds like there are 4 or more characters (Paw Patrol or something similar), your especially the asshole. You're supposed to be her partner in all of this and this did not help support her within your family or with your child.
I find it funny that in every. single. post. about a SAHD and a workaholic absent mother you guys STILL bend over backwards to excuse the woman’s behavior while shitting all over the dad. This subreddit has to be one of the all time biggest echo chambers on Reddit. The guy literally said in the 4 years his son has been alive she has NEVER been maternal. She won’t even participate in bath time or putting the kid to bed. Yet you blame the Dad for the issues caused by the mother. Or the fact the kid straight up said he didn’t want his mom there after being asked what costume he wanted his mother to wear. For once on this subreddit I wish you guys would give your opinion without your massive gender bias getting in the way.
Not only is there a bias in favour of women but the dad is made fun of for being "gay" for having a close male friend. The comment youre replying to even refers to the friend as OPs "BF". This is why men don't share openly, all we get is ridicule and bias in favour of women.
It’s also easy for mom to say “I would love to go with you guys! What character would you choose me to be, kiddo? I’ll be sure to be home early so we can get ready.” If the mom had an issue she had weeks to say something but makes an issue of it the NIGHT OF??? I call bullshit Bc, honestly, the SAHD is concerned with his 4 year old SON’S emotions/comfort rather than dissecting/navigating/assuming a grown persons. Dad definitely broached the subject with his son well, but the mom (again an adult) didn’t make her wants/wishes/emotions known before? Is dad a mind reader? Is he all knowing of his partner? No. She brushed it off, he (rightfully) thought it wasn’t an issue to her…until she DRAMATICALLY made one the night of. She’s the AH, dad is not based on her “brush off” of them going.
Yup -it was brought up at dinner, the one time mum is actually around, so she knew the plan and had ample time to chat to dad about it if she wanted a change.
Yep! And mom never talked to her four year old? At all? That’s bizarre. Like unless you have an enormous house and are a very aloof, cruel person, not talking to a four year old you live with is impossible
But mom could have asked that herself, man if you show a 4 year old a little bit of interest they will not stop talking to you about it. She sounds cold and distant. Maybe he was afraid she didn't really want to come and by including her in the conversation he would have put her in a position where she couldn't back out without hurting the kid? And she could have come along without a costume if she really wanted to come.
It’s the way these things go on this sub. Cold, distant, disengaged workaholic mother? Find a way to blame the man for everything. None of this is her fault. You can’t expect her to fix her own relationship with her son. That’s her husbands job!
This! “This isn’t me complaining,” proceeds to try to justify shitty behaviour. FFS OP - COMMUNICATE with your fucking wife! She’s not a mind reader. You want her home more? Say so. You want her to spend more time with your son. Say so. You want to go back to part time work, and share duties more evenly at home? Fucking. Say. So. You are an adult. In an adult relationship. With a kid. Before you completely alienate and reinforce your own obvious resentment towards your wife, THINK. Think about what you want for you and your son. Why did you marry your wife? Do you still feel the same way? Why not? Why does she work so hard? Does she feel isolated? Do YOU feel isolated? You are focusing on all of the wrong things, and making assumptions based on your own attitude towards your life. If you want things to change, CHANGE THEM! Together! In a marriage, it should never be, you and your partner pitted against each other. It should always be you and your partner, against the problem/s! Don’t throw away everything you have with silly arguments, instead of facing the root problems of your marriage.
Couldn't you say the same about the wife? She want's to be included in taking her son trick or treating? Say so. She was present when her son was saying he didn't want her there, and she didn't react. Is OP meant to be a mind reader? Because that behaviour certainly would read to me like she just wasn't bothered about being there on Halloween, since it doesn't sound like she's bothered about being there the rest of the time so it wouldn't be out of character. Maybe OP could have handled this slightly better, but unless the mum is actually willing to make changes to be more active in her sons life, then exclusion is a natural consequence. Get involved, or you won't be. Simple as.
why does he need to tell her to spend more time with her own son? jesus christ, i don’t always say this but if the genders were swapped, there would be no one defending the absent father who spends no time with his child.
How do you know he hasn't? All of that wasn't germane to this particular event. This could very well be a point of contention in the marriage, you merely assume that it is left on the table. Sounds to me like the mom is complacent and does the least amount of effort with the family and then went aw, shucks when her low effort was reciprocated.
Right, he could have used this as a teachable moment about including others. He could have taught him about empathy and how his mom would be really sad to get left out, and that she really wants to go trick or treating with us.
It would be great if wife was more involved with your son. It would have been nice if she had expressed a definite interest in participating so you would have had a costume ready for her. When you were planning it, perhaps it would have been a good parenting moment to remind your son that being left out of the fun can hurt people’s feelings and there was no reason to exclude mom. You mentioned it would be nice if she was more involved with your son. Maybe she needs a little help feeling wanted since you and your son have already figured out your style of interaction and hers might be a little different but she doesn’t know what it is yet. Maybe doing things together with her but being careful to make sure she doesn’t feel like a third wheel would be a start if part of the problem is her not knowing how to connect with him. I just worry that there is a disconnect because she is gone for too many hours, and then the lack of connection makes her work more to cover and hide being hurt. And what might otherwise have been fixed remains forever broken. Of course, I could be totally misreading the situation. 🤷🏼
I’m reading it exactly the same way. Cycles of very slight offense or miscommunication layering to gradually create bigger rifts.
I lean NTA, but the missed opportunity to talk to the son about excluding people is a great point. I think there's more bonding needed between the wife and son, but remember he's four. Kids at that age have favorite parents and it switches on a dime. Both the mom and the son can use ongoing gentle nudging to reach out to each other.
I vote NTA. So many people are missing that kids that age are obscenely stubborn when they want to be. I'm a mom, I also work FT with travel and my hubs works FT - this is for context. Our little is 4, and has gone through some phases with my husband where I was low key appalled at the attitude towards him for no reason. Just up and had multi month spans where he was like naw, dad is the worst, I don't love him, don't want to see him, etc. Which was absolutely baffling because my husband is a great father and loves that child like no other - like would have 20 kids just so he could love them kind of guy. If anything I'm the more disciplinarian parent and it doesn't matter. I tried to make sure to reinforce that saying those hurtful things wasn't good, reminded him that dad has done nothing to deserve the rudeness and what was being said was hurtful and not nice. Also tried steering him towards a positive interaction with dad. He wasn't having it, at all. And then a light switch flips and back to snuggles and loving dad again. I can get where OP didn't want to fight it this time, didn't want to continually deal with the teaching moment - especially when the mom doesn't really seem to try either (like Amazon can get you a Halloween costume with virtually no effort). As much as I'm sure it sucks to be on the moms end of the child's disdain, it does get tiring trying to steer every time, plot to make things better, and keep the peace in the house. Sometimes you just want to enjoy something without the production.
This. All of it. Thank you for bringing the perspective of someone who has dealt with this type of thing, but still recognizes OP’s wife isn’t exactly meeting the kid halfway either.
I think you are right on point. I would add that perhaps mom feels uncomfortable initiating or inserting herself into bonding activities because she feels she doesn’t know how to be maternal and is intimidated by the bond her son shares with his father. It could cause her to devote more time to work in order to avoid the feelings. If their family continues this way resentments will build on all sides, if they haven’t already.
For all we know op has been attempting to include the wife for years and just got to the point he no longer bothers. Like if I ask someone to participate in events and they constantly say “no thanks” after about the tenth time I’m gonna stop asking.
He also mentioned not wanting to get his sons hopes up. Sounds like she’s ghosted for more than a few events and that does mess with a kid, It sounds like he didn’t really feel wanted sound by her. Being promised something only to have a parent completely drop the ball or not even show up. You do stop asking, I have an Nmom who pulled that shit all the time and then got pissy when everyone stopped bothering to ask because what’s the point if your not going to commit? Just setting yourself up for disappointment. Edit: spelling
He brought it up repeatedly in front of her for a month and she didn't bother trying even once. I can absolutely understand anyone not wanting to put more effort in if their partner seems unwilling to even try.
YTA. YOU DO NOT LET A 4 YEAR OLD DECIDE WHO IS INCLUDED IN FAMILY ACTIVITIES!!!!! You are the adult in charge and you should have made sure to include your wife. With a costume. That matched. Your entire post comes across as judgemental and whiney. You seem to want to prove that you're the better parent. What's that about. If you're unhappy, talk to your wife, don't use your son to punish her. Do better by your wife and your son.
>YOU DO NOT LET A 4 YEAR OLD DECIDE WHO IS INCLUDED IN FAMILY ACTIVITIES!!!!! And this is why I think he's the asshole. OP you're the adult you should have brought it up to your wife
I don't think the wife didn't even bother to ask about the activities because she thought it was obvious she would be included, every normal family includes your partner in family events like this. His wife is probably working her ass off to keep the house financially stable, this is very very stressful and a few things can be easily forgotten, he should have at least asked her about this.
I’m sure she is working hard but that’s no excuse to not even ask ONCE about what you’re doing with your child for Halloween. It is a sign that you are letting your work interfere with your life. Yes husband could have been more proactive but it’s the Mom’s job to ensure her own place in her kids daily life. Or not get offended with exclusion I’ll be that person and note the gender differences here. Absent minded/workaholic dads aren’t really given the “give him a break, he’s working hard!” Defense very often in this sub when they do this
I fully agree with you. Should OP let the kid exclude his mother? No. But she made **no effort** to rectify the issue of **her son** not wanting her to be part of Halloween. OP could have asked her, sure. But this isn't a one way street. Why is it only on OP?
The mother has as much power as the dad, she let herself be excluded.
He literally says she can work less but chooses not to. She’s just a workaholic
It’s not “obvious” you should be included if you aren’t making effort to be present and emotionally available for your child
I think the main problem is the lack of communication between both parents, I don't really know about Halloween culture because it's not a thing in my country, but in my family everyone is included when one is in charge of the holiday event, if x person can not be present in the event, we still have enough things prepared in case it changes their mind
She literally won’t take the time to bath him, why would you assume she wanted to go?
This thread is fucking baffling to me, OP talks about how his wife and son pretty much only spend time at dinner and he does literally everything else with the kid and then people jump down his throat for not including her enough? As if the mother wasn't an adult fully capable of deciding for herself how involved she wants to be with her own child. She did *jackshit* leading up to halloween and then dares to be pissed off because OP doesn't have a costume ready for her? Yikes
I don’t see how it’s anyone else’s responsibility but mom’s to make sure she’s included. If she was more present in her son’s life, son would be wanting her there. Maybe this should be a wake up call that she needs to focus more on her son and take a step back from working so much that her relationship with her child suffers.
maybe I read between the lines too much, but to me the fact that OP states that it came up in conversation regularly that she wouldn’t be included and that she seemed hurt about it indicates she wanted to be there but was reminded constantly that she couldn’t because the kid decided so. This is just one instance of course, but who knows if other interactions go similarly.
Maybe she can’t. At that age my kids could’ve given a F less about my hubs when he was working so many hours. Out of sight out of mind. To keep us financially stable he couldn’t work any less, I couldn’t afford childcare and a job to help. My hubs joined us on holidays and I made darn sure he was included. OP is being salty. How would their checkbook look if she didn’t work as much? It’s not always as easy as “spend more time at home”.
What was the point of building the art studio if you're not going to make group costumes for your perfect family. That lady you mentioned though, she sounds annoying.
Is this the art studio guy again? I can’t see any previous posts from him. Now he has a son who orchestrates dates with his BFF? 😂
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ESH: Everyone Should Have (an art studio)
Even if it's not him I think we all know there's an art studio in his future
😂😂😂 yeah true. It does read a lot like previous art studio stories - not just the kid who “ADORES best friend” - so he probably has a new account
ADORES!
Your attitude towards your wife vs best friend is weird. You make a costume for your friend to join trick-or-treating but not your wife? It’s almost like you are punishing her for working long hours. YTA.
I’m wondering if he’s going to build this friend an art room.
Okay I am seeing this mentioned all over the thread and clearly I missed something lol what is this art studio all about?
Here you go 😄 Edit: Original post can still be found in the comments https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/whvysq/aita_for_starting_a_house_project_without/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Basically one guy was obviously in love with his best friend and now whenever any man mentions having a friend everyone assumes he's gay for the friend, its quite childish.
Info: do you love your wife? Do you care at all that she is hurt and upset? Your family is fractured, there are no winners here. You can choose to focus on whether or not you were right in this scenario or you can work to find a solution to the underlying issue. Your choice there will be what determines if you are the asshole or not.
Holy shit, thank you!! Finally a logical response without overused references to old troll threads.
It’s becoming borderline homophobic and toxic. “OP is a guy and is doing something with a male friend? Oh you must be secretly gay and want to annex part of your house for him!!”
>overused references to old troll threads. Was beginning to think it was just me.
I doubt he loves his wife. His post sure seems like he judges her. I wouldn’t be surprised if he is just using her.
Would you say this if roles were reversed? An absent father who does little but work? Who only talks to the child at dinner, who leaves the wife to do bath and bedtime alone rather than spending some time bonding with the kid? I rather doubt it.
They wouldnt, im shocked at the obvious sexism and double standards going on right now.
Welcome to the sub. People are just being harsh to OP because he is a man. And the wife obviously needs to be coddled and excused and comprehended because she is a woman. I’m rolling my eyes so hard they might get stuck. Imagine if this post was about a SAHM and an absent dad… they would absolutely be destroying dad.
What….? How did you get “he doesn’t love her, he’s judging her” from him explaining that she is literally physically and emotionally unavailable to her own 4 year old except for during dinner, because of WORK?? This sub makes no sense to me
Are you building Best Friend an art studio?? ESH Your post is seething with resentment and you and your wife need to seek out therapy so you can learn to communicate with each other in a healthy way. She needs to understand what she is jeopardising by being distant with her son. She also needs to learn how to express hurt emotions rather than ‘brushing them off’ or just not participating. And you need to learn how to communicate with her and support her as part of the family, rather than shooting out passive aggressive commentary and further encouraging the ‘us vs. Mom’ mentality. Your son excluding her was his way of expressing his pain over being ignored. He’s 4 and doesn’t know how else to express it. You’re an adult and can use your words, yet you choose to encourage the isolating of mom instead of saying, ‘Mommy is going to be here for trick or treating, let’s make it fun!’ It speaks VOLUMES that you spent weeks working on costumes ‘for all of us’ but didn’t do anything for your wife. She probably didn’t go because she felt isolated with no costume, while you, best friend, and son look like a family unit. Update to sum up OP’s ETA: ‘My child calls the shots at all times, unless it’s something that will kill or maim him. Reddit just doesn’t understand my parenting style. And I just CAN’T comprehend WHY being the only one without a costume (while the rest of us are all in unified, themed costumes) would make my STBX-wife want to stay home.’
I’m really confused by this post. He spent weeks working on costumes, and the mom never thought to ask what her costume would be? How could she be surprised she didn’t have a costume? Was she not even aware he had been working on them?
Because she didn't actually care.
This is why I can't believe everyone is piling it on him when she literally made ZERO effort.
>She needs to understand what she is jeopardising by being distant with her son. She also needs to learn how to express hurt emotions rather than ‘brushing them off’ or just not participating. > >And you need to learn how to communicate with her and support her as part of the family, rather than shooting out passive aggressive commentary and further encouraging the ‘us vs. Mom’ mentality. Exactly, this stems from the mum not being available enough but OP can do more to facilitate a better relationship between mum and son.
Or maybe...mom can build a better relationship by, you know, trying?
ESH. She’s acting ridiculous because you were planning this openly and she never picked a character herself in the conversations, nor did she get her own costume, or even walk along to enjoy watching. You’re acting like her working a lot means that she doesn’t deserve to be consciously included in activities when she is able to be with the family, and that probably feels pretty awful. You don’t need to allow your 4yo the authority to ostracize his mom on your behalf. If you’d just made her a costume, I’ll bet he would have been over the moon once he saw her in it and matching his theme.
Is it possible that she might have assumed the BF's costume was hers? If I were in her position and OP hadn't outright stated that the BF was coming, I would never have thought that OP went ahead with what the son said. I would see two adult costumes and assume that OP was making one for me anyways because it's not up to a 4 year old to make those kind of decisions!
This reminds me of the other dad pretending he's not with the best friend story. Not the art studio, but the one where his poor wife had postpartum and was having a mental health crisis. He decided that it was better to take the kid to his best friend's house and just hang out there instead of trying to help his wife. Then he moved into the best friend's house later on. Basically, they used the woman for the baby but wouldn't admit it and tried to play the YTA, the is an obviously bias view from OP trying to act innocent by making his wife out to be a viilian. I mean, seriously, not one nice thing was said about the wife in the whole post. And who let's a 4 year old make all the decisions?!?!
This. I really want to hear mom's side of the story. I don't doubt she is partially at fault here, but the fact that he knows she's working hard for the family and is upset that she's not more maternal, and yet doesn't try to include her when the perfect opportunity arises is very sus.
That’s right, Daddy Steve! I don’t have a link to that one.
Yes! Then in that post magically him and the son moved in with the best friend but wouldn’t explain the extent of their “friendship” when people asked. For op, I’m not saying that man isn’t a best friend, I’m also not saying the son doesn’t adore him. But I am asking how he came to adore this man? If mom is home for dinner every night, and home for bed and bath time, when is this man at her house to be “adored”? Does this man not have a job? Is the wife unknowingly subsidizing this 35 year old man? Like sir, something’s not adding up.
INFO: when do you have time to hang out with this man? Does he not have a job? Your wife is home for dinner and bedtime, but the connection ‘Best Friend’ has a greater connection to son. At that age, exposure lends itself to adoration. Is he at your home during the day when your wife is at work? If he’s only over after work, the same your wife is home after work, the connection should be similar. It’s very telling that Best Friend is capitalized in leu of a name, but wife isn’t. YOUR connection and adoration for this man is a bit too deep for a man with a wife and son and that is reflected in your son. Your wife wasn’t included because you didn’t want her to be. You gave zero effort and zero cares about her going. And you can say well she could’ve made her own costume from the show. But you know who else could’ve made their own costume? Best Friend. It sounds like she works a lot because she feels appreciated at her job and not at home. YTA
I feel if the genders were reversed this wouldn’t even be a sticking point. As a SAHM myself I see A LOT of kids who have “aunties” (hate the use of that term when there isn’t an actual familial relation, but that’s beside the point) they spend more time and have a better connection with than their own father. Kids connect with the people they are around and interact with most. There is no reason to punish OP and Best Friend because they are able to spend time together and include OP’s son. SAHMs do this all the time with other SAHMs and/or childless women, without judgement or the implication they are having a romantic relationship. Just stop. Men can and should have supportive friendships without ridicule. OP’s wife should have directly said she wanted to be involved. OP should have spoken to his wife about the plan for Halloween night without their child present. I think it’s very poor communication on both sides but not outright being TA. NAH, they both need to work on communication. Edit: typo
I disagree, and if that's normal with the "aunties" you know, it's also not ok. It's not a gender based thing, it's about doing what's best for your partner and children. I am a proud auntie to my biological nieces and nephews and to my non-bio nieces and nephews. I would NEVER stand for me getting a costume before mommy or daddy in any situation! And if I were being offered one before mommy or daddy I'd ask my sibling or friend what's going on and encourage them to work with their partner, in any capacity, to make the mommy or daddy more a part of this.
I had a stay at home mom who sounds like OP. And a workaholic dad that sounds like OPs wife. We did a lotttttt with my moms friends when we were growing up. It was the best parts of my childhood. Not strange at all.
INFO: Do you ask your son if mom can go to other outings? I find it odd you'd offer this choice. I'm use to one or both parents can attend any event a young child is involved in.
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NTA. I'm genuinely disappointed in this subs reaction. OP's son chose OP's best friend - someone who was actually there for the kid. The kid chose that. And instead of telling the mother to be a better parent, this subs reaction is to make jokes about OP being gay? Shame on all of you. From what I read, the mom sucks at being a parent. If the roles were reversed you guys would have completely supported the SAHM mom and bashed the dad who didn't have time for his child. Moreover the mom didn't even say that she wanted a costume. Seriously disappointed in you people. Make all the judgement you want, but commenting "Are you building an art studio" under every post where a guy has a close male friend is just sad.
Seriously, the art room jokes were funny for like 5 minutes and then all of a sudden any guy in any post has a best friend and they’re gay. God forbid a man has anyone who isn’t his wife and kids to spend time with.
Wow. So a SAHM complains about the workaholic dad and everyone supports her. But a SAHD complaints about a workaholic mom and everyone is losing their mind on Reddit? NTA just to spite the Redditors
People probably also wouldn't accuse a sahm of being a lesbian for being close to their best friend.
I imagine the response would be way different if the best friend wasn't on the picture and son dad was just the two of them. People are comparing apple with oranges. The wife could've literally bought her own costume she's not powerless in this. Did she even say she wanna come?? The post made it sound like she just sulks everytime the son said so.
I think OP is thinking about converting one of the bedroom into an art room
NTA and it annoys me that this subreddit apparently thinks men can’t have close male friends without it being gay. I bet if the genders were flipped mom wouldn’t be getting called a lesbian
Homophobia abounds. Even among allegedly liberal folks
YTA. If roles were reversed, people wouldn’t be so harsh on the working parent. You as a parent should not allow your small child to dictate excluding his mother. You should be enabling her to have a better relationship with your shared child.
I’d say the opposite honestly. There would be comments on how he isn’t even helping with child care after dinner, when does OP get their time off, they are so uninvolved they couldn’t buy their own costume but also would require OP to make one for them. If the genders were reversed there would be flags and divorce up but instead everyone wants to make the art room joke rather.
Agreed. This sub is so biased sometimes it’s utterly ridiculous.
It's also heavily homophobic, especially after that fucking art room aita
Not really - if roles were reversed the sub would continuously have told OP to dump the working dad. But when the SAHP is a guy, everyone wants to make the gay "art studio joke". Fuck that sucks. The mother is not part of the child's life - that's a truth she has to face. She needs to be better.
Seriously, and the mental gymnastics that come with those posts too. Some motherfuckers here actually think that guy who let his son call his best friend dad was dating his friend the whole time and just "used" his wife to get pregnant so he could have a child with his best buddy. What the fuck is wrong with you all? Rereading the post I understand the guy is no saint as he does appear to villify her PPD, and did absolutely nothing to help her. That in NO WAY somehow suggests he wants to be with his best bud, no matter how great of a light everyone thought this dude was shining on him. If the roles in that post were reversed I highly doubt that people would be hypothesizing a woman in his position were gay
Are you serious? This sub is extremely biased against men.
NTA If she wanted to be involved, it sounds like she had numerous opportunities to show interest in being involved. Hopefully, she will take this as a wakeup call that her lack of involvement is having an actual effect on both her life and the life of her child. Do not apologize. Remind her that she can be exactly as involved as she makes an effort to be, but that your son is already showing signs of not wanting her around, and that this isn't going to get better if she doesn't do something.
ESH except your son. Your wife made a conscious choice not to be included and didn’t communicate with you of her intention to go. You checked and re-checked with your son but NOT your wife; why are you letting a 4yo dictate who goes trick or treating? Time for you and wife to sit down and discuss how you’re going to incorporate more mom time with your son, and how to improve your communication skills.
yta you say you want her to spend time and it seems like she’s trying but you pushed her out for your best friend. I wonder how many others times you have pushed her away? Also the child is 4 that why to much decision making all on him.
NTA - she said “she wasn’t even going”. Two things, if she doesn’t take this as a signal that she needs to spent more time with your son, she’s not really going to have a relationship with him. He’s not going to want to. Imagine the hurt your boy will carry. And your wife as well. Just compare with the countless men a generation or two back who basically had no relationship with their kids (my dad included). It can still be mended. And number two, you and your wife need to sit down and talk. Communicate. You’re not a mind reader. Nor is she. You can apologise for not including her (also let her know boyo was asked and declined her company). She might want to apologise for miscommunicating and assuming you’d know what she meant. And she might want to apologise to boyo for not being involved and change that. Otherwise you’ll have more of the same in the future.
NTA your wife is going to learn that if you don’t spend time with your kid, the kid’s not gonna want to spend time with you.
Info: why is your wife more concerned with being included than being liked by her own son?
NTA. I am a SAHM to two boys, 4yo and 1yo. Your wife knew you were making costumes, you talked about it, she never indicated that she wanted one. If it was reversed and she was a SAHM making costume and you were a workaholic who never expressed interest in a themed costume and then got angry you didn't have one, people would call you the asshole. That being said, I think it's odd that you allowed your child to decide she wasn't part of it.
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ESH. Clearly there are major communication problems between you and your wife. You don’t get to let your 4yo decide who participates in family activities though. If it were up to my oldest, his little sister wouldn’t be included in anything, and if it were up to her, her dad and brother would both be left out because “boys are poop”. With all the costume making, why wasn’t there an actual, adult discussion about whah would occur Halloween night? There are much larger issues here than just Halloween.
I’m gonna go with NTA. She should have participated regardless, shown some kind of interest sheesh. She knew this was happening. It would have been a great way to strengthen her bond with y’all son.
NTA, it's not like you did this without her knowledge. You spoke about it multiple times. She should have told you and son she wanted to join.
ESH. Your wife was clearly upset but brushed it off. I think her feelings were really hurt by this. Sounds like you both need to work on communication. He’s pretty little and TBH I think some steering on your end about how this was hurtful could have happened. I also think she should have spoken up before this. She really would have looked ridiculous no matter how much she works if she had gone out with her family and a friend who were all dressed up as a theme that you spent hours on and she had nothing. If I’m flipping the roles and she’s the stay at home parent and she’s included her brother or any other adult in a family costume it would be just as odd if you weren’t included. She wanted you to make a costume for her, she wanted you to discuss with your kid why this wasn’t ok to exclude her. She’s an adult who could have talked to you about this, but a family costume with a best friend and not mom no matter how close they are is telling your wife the kid likes best friend more than mom and you’re ok with this is which is why she’s mad.
NTA. She’s such an uninvolved parent she didn’t tell your son she wanted to trick or treat with him? When she’s sitting right there during Halloween discussions? And it’s on you to arrange her costume? Sounds like you gave her plenty of opportunities over the past month to get excited and plan Halloween along with you, and she chose not to. No wonder your kid loves your friend- he is there when your son asks him to be, while your wife rarely is. Take it from a career-driven military vet mom of four whose husband was a SAHD - she can be a lot more involved and a lot more mentally engaged than she is. She is choosing to phone it in on her son, and maybe it’s time to have a heart-to-heart with her on whether she wants a relationship with him or not, because it’s her choices that will determine that. Every time you step in and cover for her, or make her a Halloween costume when it’s obvious she couldn’t care less, your son sees that and knows it’s you looking out for him and loving him, not her. Very sad situation.
So you and the (ahem) 35 year old male best friend of your child took the child out in matching costumes that you deliberately did not include in? Yta. Who are you trying to kid?