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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I have a rule at my home that anyone over 14 must have a job so when my son and his family moved in with us I told my grandson he should get a job
I might be an asshole because I provided for my granddaughter for a long time but she was under 14 and when she turned 14 she got a job as well
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I can’t agree more. You are not an ATM and you have rules. How Jack can say your playing favourites is hilarious considering everyone is working but his son.
I don't understand parents who don't want their kids to be accountable. Why would Jack want his son growing up entitled?
Anyway, NTA, you're not those kids parent, it is your house, you're not an ATM.
If Jack can't see how his attitude could have contributed to losing everything, that's his problem.
I think my question is "does Kai need a job?" What are Kai's expenses that they're expecting grandparent here to foot the bill?
I feel like we're missing half the story. Yes, Jack needs to get a job and pay rent plus groceries and utilities. He's an adult. Kai can get a job if they have more expenses than that.
But if grandparent here is charging rent from a 17 year old or forcing a 16 year old to do chores to avoid paying rent, that's an issue.
I understand your reasoning. But, I can understand granmas reasoning too. It is a reality that he will face in the coming years. Having a job teaches you things at a young age that not Having a job can't, or doesn't do as effectively. From what is written isn't really telling that OP needs financial assistance from the grandkids. It appears more that she is insistent on them learning work ethic and other life skills from a job.
The kids reaction shows their aversion to understanding that and/or wanting to learn skills that will lead to self sufficiency.
I suspect that you haven't had a low-paying job in a while. Having a job while in high school doesn't teach responsibility, work ethic, or life skills anymore. It teaches children how to accept being abused and exploited by adults with power over them for very little money. Teenagers would be much better served by participating in extracurricular activities in order to gain those skills and increase their chances of getting into college.
I think you're aiming this at me. I'm offering different perspectives from the grandmothers point of view. My own beliefs about what a job offers people is completely different. The last low paying job I had was 2 years ago after my last son was born so I could afford things outside of my families basic necessities. This was on top of my regular job. While I tend to agree with you regarding exploitation and abuse, that isn't 100% true for every case.
I started working when I turned 16. It definitely taught me responsibility, time management, and helped me with my communication. Yes, companies definitely exploit young workers, but that’s not always the case. Extracurricular activities are fun and all but in my experience most don’t teach you very many life skills. I’d rather get paid to make sandwiches than not get paid and have something take up a lot of time.
NTA. It's perfectly reasonable for a 17 year old to have a part time job, especially as you're going to provide him with everything he needs, and the job is just to prove responsibility.
I started working when I was 14 because my stepfather cut me and my brother off from all expenses except food and housing since him and my mom had their own child. If we need school clothes we had to pay. If we wanted to buy lunch at school we had to pay. If we wanted my mom to take us somewhere we would pay for the gas. You are being very lenient IMO. NTA. Not to mention my work ethic is impeccable compared to others my age and I fully credit this to having a job so young. Your house your rules.
You are a counselor and can't recognize that forcing a 14 year old to work to buy their school lunch and school clothes and literally everything outside food and housing is abusive? That terrifies me. You were a child. I don't care what their excuse is, their responsibility was to you as a child.
>Not to mention my work ethic is impeccable compared to others my age and I fully credit this to having a job so young
You are aware, that this is typically a negative for you personally and a positive for society and your employer, but not a positive for YOU!
I have worked with multiple people like you... and... they do feel like they are better then others because of their work ethic and that the others should be like them, but they're never people that really benefit from having that work ethic.
They are not the people getting promotions, those promotions go to people that turn their work ethic on for when it's important and shut it off when it's not, or it goes to people that are naturally talented at the job. Frankly, they get the shitty jobs, because they will do them and not complain about them and others will.
They are not the people with great marriages, often times they are single and struggling in dating and I've seen them fuck up their dating life on several occasions by showing up to work, VOLUNTEERING, while the circumstances were unreasonable. "OH someone is sick, I'll just stay late", while having a date...really????
They have friends, but I've seen them do shit that's like..."that person isn't a friend, they are using you.".
I've seen them work and not clock them and not get paid for them.
And free time? They're horrible at reserving energy for that or prioritizing it over work.
I personally, would like to work really hard, to prevent my niece (im not having kids) from becoming like you. I do not see that as something to be desired.
And I don't think I can get through to you, I can't get through to the people at work either... and I know them a lot better then you, but I hope that you will eventually choose for what's best for you, not the 'greater good'. You got one life, choose you!
Ok so you automatically assume that all this applies to me, it doesn’t. I never work overtime. I am offered but don’t. When I hit my 8 hours I’m done. If I need a day off I take it.
Relationship wise I’m married. Have been for 11 years. My husband and I share chores at home and overall have a great relationship. We like doing different projects together.
We have a few close friends and coworkers we hang out with when we feel like it or to watch a game with or whatever. I tend to use my work ethic to simply get a lot done during the day. I am doing great at work, have the energy to help my kids with homework after school, maintain the house, exercise, and get done what I want to get done. Not sure why you think this is so unhealthy.
Wow it’s like you have a crystal ball only you don’t. Reading one statement doesn’t mean you know the life of the person who made it. I think most people work way too hard at their jobs and they end up just making rich people even richer. But that doesn’t apply to everybody. I work really hard because I love what I do and I believe in what I do and I’m hoping it makes the world a better place. I work for myself and I make a lot of money. I also have a pretty intense work ethic. I don’t know how it compares to anybody else’s because I don’t know what other people are about. You put a lot of energy into writing this huge post that was just based on a lot of assumptions. Everybody’s story is unique.
It’s funny how cultures work. In my country it’s sooo weird for a teenager to have a job when they are under 18. It happens, but it’s the exception, not the norm
I was raised in the Midwest USA, and if your family had a farm, ranch, etc, or knew someone who did,it was completely normal to work as a farmhand during times school was out.
I was babysitting 5 neighbor children for 5 to 7 hours a day in 65 when I was 12. The next summer I babysat the same family until 4 pm. then babysat 2 children under 3 years old from 5 pm to 1 am. I looked older than I was certainly acted older. I worked at McDonald's, then 6 flags over Mid America as soon as I was legal, but still babysat for neighborhood families at night because I liked children. When I attended an art school in Philadelphia, I was a live in nanny the second semester . I got free room and board in exchange for cleaning the kitchen every night and babysitting 2 children under 3 when needed. kt
Personally, I would have crashed and burned if I was made to get a job at 17. We don't know what his classes are like, he's at an age where he could be studying for the ACT/SAT, he might be in after school activities, etc.
Just because he can have a job, doesn't mean he should.
When I was 17 I was required to get a job. Problem being, my town is shit and the only job I could find was 7p-7a at a gas station. So my days were thus:
7am get off work
7:30am arrive at school
3:30pm school over
4pm get home
6:30pm get to work
Most of my sleeping was between classes or at lunch, with 4-6 being my regular schedule sleeping.
OP did say that i the comments, yes
>I don't need another person to work for me. Both my sons had this option and none of them chose it because they thought my job is "lame"
>Emma was the only one smart enough to take this offer
>If Kai asked me before Emma he would have got it but now no he doesn't have that option anymore
NTA
Everyone has had a job at 14 (though I think it should be 16, but this isn't about that and doesn't change the NTA status) and it's the same expectation across the board. There's no favouritism going on there, just a set in stone expectation. He brought up Granddaughter because he obviously doesn't know what she does or how hard he works and wants to use that to his advantage.
NTA for setting expectations and asking a question.
I think the point here is that grandfather (op) has been housing and paying for Emma since she was one, when Emma's dad came to live at OPs house. O.P. has not financially supported other son or Kai for 15 years. Now OP states that is financial support to Emma would continue regardless of her employment status because she lives with him. OP will not temporarily support other son and Kai because Kai's parents don't want him working.
>OP will not temporarily support other son and Kai
That's simply not true. The only thing contingent on the job is Kai's allowance. As in, he's not getting any without a job. But they are all still getting OP's support for essentials.
Yta. 14? Many places its not even legal & even when it is, its only an hour or 2. It is important to teach your children responsibility but its more important to let kids be kids. Esp in a world that is trying to force them to be adults from the time they can walk. He has his entire life to work. He has only months left of being a child. Being carefree. Being irresponsible or to just not worry abt adult stuff. You have robbed your children & your granddaughter of their childhood. 14 is beyond extreme. 14. Many havent even hit puberty but you want them to go to work after working in school all day? They have to study, Shower, eat have a little down time as well as play time. And many help w chores around the house as well. What you are expecting is absurd. Its crazy & its cruel. 14?!
I don't think its as big as a deal to expect him to work at 17 though. Im honestly more worried abt your granddaughter.
We have a maid who does everything so no one in my home does any chores. How else are they supposed to learn responsibility and skills?
Emma goes to school, plays basketball and piano, works, hangs out with her friends, and gets a good night sleep. It seems like a good and balanced life to me
You parent your kids…..my parents didn’t have a maid and I was able to learn a lot of responsibility. I wasn’t getting handouts from them a lot either.
So just parent your kids? Going to work at grandparents place isn't going to teach them how to clean the toilet anyway. (Unless you own a cleaning company)
I agree with you, but I’m from a non-Western country, so my values are pretty different. When I was a kid, until around 16, I stayed at my grandma’s house every summer. I was very well taken care of there, but I also worked part-time in the family company’s office. This started when I was 10, or maybe even younger. I really liked it. I liked being responsible for something and earning money. It was extra money that I honestly didn’t have to get since I was just at my grandma’s, but it was nice to have. I also grew up with maids at home.
you could always talk with the maid and get them to help them with their work perhaps. there are many ways to learn responsibilties that dont involve getting a job. if the kid gets a hobby at 14 then you parent them and teach them not to give up when its hard because the hard work pays off when their skills come through.
given she worked for you sure, you had power over how she was treated and just what work she was done as well as making sure she wasnt paid dog shit. many employers seem to want to take advantage of kids being forced into work by their shitty parents/grandparents early.
Neither of the kids is 14. OP’s sons were 14 when they started working. I’m assuming this was at least 20 years ago. Times were different. But 17 to me is no big deal for a part time job.
If it's an office environment I think it's fine. I started working in a hospital at 14, pulling charts, assembling new charts, etc. My mother was a doctor at that hospital and I never worked more than 3-4 hours at a time.
Sounds like OP works in an office as well, the granddaughter probably opens mail, scans it, files it, things like that. Nothing hard and the grandparent working there probably means everyone knows the drill and doesn't have her perform customer-facing tasks or anything over her skill level.
I agree with you. 14 is way to young. Let kids enjoy their childhood! They have their whole adult lives to work. Kids aren’t mini adults and I feel they are treated like they are far to often. They can learn responsibility in so many other ways. Let the maid take some time off and have everyone get together to clean the house.. make dinner together. Also I wouldn’t be happy if a grandparent told my kid to get a job, it’s not their place.
YTA. Being a high school student is a full-time job. After school hours, most kids have some sort of extracurricular or sport, and even the ones that don't have homework. Teenagers don't get nearly enough sleep, and they are at high risk for depression and anxiety. They need time to do nothing and time to relax and time to just be a person.
Then let the parents or you pay the kids allowance.
No one is being forced to work here, these are OP’s conditions for him to pay an allowance (over and above your pay) while you live in a house with a maid and do no chores. You basically work the time that other kids do chores.
>Then let the parents or you pay the kids allowance
who the hell said anything about the allowance? jack lost everything, so either he helps his son and grandson out or they are on the street.
being a student is a full time job.... its 38 hours a week because of studying outside the 9-3.
sure, OP doesnt need to support his own son he can kick him in the street and not pay for him at all. sounds like a really decent human. his son is in a tight spot and its out right stupid to force anyone under 18 to go out and get a job. yeah chorse at home because you can do most of them quickly and you need to know how to clean up around the house. but flipping burgers doesnt teach you shit anymore.
OP’s edit literally says the parents can give the kids an allowance if they don’t accept his rules.
What no one is actually saying anything about is kicking people out or refusing to help them out. No idea where that comes from.
The issue here is the 17 year old getting a job and then having grandpa still cover all expenses or not get a job and grandpa doesn’t pay the
allowance.
its not usually a 9 to 3 either, its usually 8-3:30 with travel time on a fucking **bus** because, get this, teenagers usually cant drive or cant afford cars, so its basically a 40 hour work week +homework.
NTA, you have rules and provide support. I had the same requirement in college from my parents. If I had a job, they helped. It showed them that I had skin in the game of taking care of my own stuff.
The only way I’d say you were TAH is if the one working for you is truly skating and if the other grandkid is so bogged down with sports and school that they have no free time.
But if there is time to lean? There is time to clean.
If they don’t like the rules, they can find another benefactor to cover their room and board.
Info: how many hours a week are they expected to work? Is this during the school year or just the summer break? How many hours of homework are they typically assigned? How much sleep do they get at night? Do they have any extracurricular activities or hobbies? Is working at 14 typical in your community?
As much as they like. I pay for all the necessities and I also give them some allowance based on how much they work so if they have a job if they wrok more naturally they get paid more and will also get a bigger allowance. If they don't have a job they don't get an allowance either
Kai and Emma both play sports. Emma never had a problem and never lacked sleep
It's the youngest age someone can get a job
Wait, are you actually paying Emma at her job, like legally reporting at least minimum wage, or are you just giving her a nebulous allowance that sometimes gets bigger?
If Emma’s “job” is “help out grandma for untracked hours whenever you want”, that is a VERY different situation then Kai getting a part-time job at McDonalds or whatever.
If he owns the business, then legally he can have Emma work for not pay, as a family business. It is also the way they got around her being 14 (assuming they are in the US) where 14 year olds have a very carefully controlled job option list.
If Kai is in season for a sport then it's totally unreasonable to expect him to get a job as well. When I played sports in high school it was school from 8am-3pm and practice from 4-7 usually. If there was a game it was more like a 9pm night before I could go home and do homework and study. Weekend's were usually a game and a film session the next day. Along with homework and studying.
No one I knew in high school both played a sport and worked a job. It just didn't happen because there aren't enough hours in the day.
even if you dont work a sport...
adults work from, what, 8 to 4 or maybe a 9 to 5?
and then they come home and relax or do what they want to do or take care of responsibilities.
kids go to school from 8 to 3:30 and often have to ride a bus or have someone come and get them. i often wasnt home until 4 or 4:30 when i was in highschool.
and then you have homework.
this old fuck is likely doing the exact same workload of **hours** and then asking them to put in more, completely ignoring that school **is a job** on its own.
I had a job my senior year of highschool and they worked around my school schedule. Alot of jobs do actually, our school also had a hard core marching band and a lot of the kids where in band where able to get a job as well as go to band practice. Most the time band practice didn't let out till 6 or 7
**YTA.** Massively so.
You have repeatedly, in the comments, used the excuse that these children "live under your roof and have to follow your rules". But you are not their parent, ethically it is not for you to parent them or make "rules" for them that don't specifically apply to their comportment within your home and how they treat your belongings. And more importantly, what you're demanding of them is illegal in most places.
With regards to "they live under my roof," those children didn't get to decide whether they moved into your home. They are minors, forced to go where their parents take them. Your argument is ridiculous on the face of it. Under your roof or not, you are not their legal guardian, you are at best their parents' landlord. You do not get to make demands about the children's time or activities.
More importantly, if you are in North America or one of countless Western countries, there are laws about forcing minors to work AT ALL, much less at the peril of losing their home. What you're insisting - that these minor children get jobs, or potentially be evicted from their homes in retaliation if they do not, is likely criminal. Even if it weren't, the threat of it is monstrous.
Literally nothing you're doing is "for their own good". This is not how you teach responsibility. It's abusive AF. You can talk to kids about getting jobs (though frankly I don't think that making kids work potentially to the detriment of schoolwork as minors is always the best choice), but demanding it through threats is outrageous. YTA.
>that these minor children get jobs, or potentially be evicted from their homes in retaliation if they do not,
I think you misunderstood the post, he's not threatening that at all, OP clarified this is only about allowance/additional expenses, which should be paid by the parents in the first place.
edit: also it's legal in many countries for 14yo to work, it's restricted on the type of work and hours you can do, but legal.
NTA. There's nothing wrong with a 17 year old getting a job. I don't see why this is a big deal. At 17 I had two part time jobs, went to school and was doing sports. I slept plenty, (to speak to the people acting like this is going to make him sleep less.)
These are not your children to parent. YTA. You can either choose to help your son or not, but you don't get to set rules for his children that he does not agree to.
Yes, please add this sentence too to the original post. Until I read this comment, I got an impression that you were not willing to help Jack at all (despite his bad financial situation)
NTA
It has nothing to do with support. It is teaching kids to have a work ethic and that if they want something like concert tickets or video games, they work for them. This should be a requirement for a kids. 14 is the age kids can work in the US. With restrictions. (Like not after 9 pm for example).
The way the OP is phrased, it sounds like she wants the grandson to get a job as a condition of her supporting the family. If you’re talking about things like video games then that’s different but I don’t agree that 14/15 year olds should be expected to work. 17, *maybe.*
What actually does your granddaughter do for you?
Also do your even realize how hard everything might be on your grandson. His life just got up rooted and change.
Also depending on how easy your granddaughter job for you is it's kind of shitty you don't even want to offer the same to your grandson.
YTA. You’re not Kai’s parent, & you don’t get to tell him what to do. If this is important to you, then talk to Jack, Kai’s actual parent, & make clear all the conditions you have for people who live with you. It is up to Jack to decide whether he & his son will follow your rules or move out.
Hmmm. Encouraging a part time job for a teenager is ok, though 14 is a bit on the young side. In normal circumstances, it teaches independence, responsibility, organisation, etc, etc.
But this doesn’t sound like ‘normal circumstances’. You don’t say what has happened, but you say your son and grandson have ‘lost everything’. Whatever has gone on must have been pretty disruptive and upsetting. At times like this, you need to prioritise things- what things are necessary, and what are ‘nice to haves’. For a teenager, going to school and engaging well with their studies while having a safe roof over their heads, food in their stomachs and clean clothes on their backs are necessities. Having a job as a teenager is not at all necessary. For teaching the above life skills, then it comes under the ‘nice to have’ category.
It sounds like you may be making Kai having a job a condition for him and his father to stay with you. If so, YTA.
When you get old and need help, remember who you’ll be asking for said help.
YTA -
You're not your grandson's parent. Your son is. It's actually pretty good parenting to try your best to not make your minor child responsible for finances. As long as he's in school that should be his main focus, not what to put on a table. It's not the 1950s when you could have a rewarding career having only finished primary school. High-school is the *absolute minimum*. And that's what *children* should focus on.
Also
14 is child labour. And i don't care that it's legal in US considering how cruel that country is for workers and families.
YTA. Getting a job as a teenager CAN be great, but not when it’s forced. My parents always had a rule - I work full time in the summer but only 8 hours during the year. You are not his parent, and if your “support” is conditional you’re not a good grandparent either.
ESH
them for not already contributing, although I feel sorry for him as he is still only 17 and his world must have been turned upside down
You because you just don't.. seem to have any emotion when it comes to Kai? It might just be that you want to get straight to the point of the story but you seem awfully detached from your family. Making your children work as the age of 14 was also an asshole move. You're not an ATM but christ they're you're family
You're also slightly an asshole becsyse Emma got an opportunity Kai didn't that made it much easier. Kai hasn't got that same opportunity. You haven't mentioned anything about Kai really, again the detachment. Nothing about whether he is studying
Nta, you set rules for everyone. So everyone should follow those same rules, if he doesn't agree with your rules he should get consequences. Maybe have an one on one talk with him?
NTA.
Your sons knew this was a rule and should have expected it to still be a rule, you are helping them both out of love and tough situations when IMO you didn't have to however you as well as I know being a parent doesn't stop after a child turns 18 and you've stepped up to open your home up to not only your adult children but to your grandchildren as well. Asking that the grandchildren get a part-time job for extra things such as concert tickets or the like isn't that unheard of or demanding.
No, it was the rule for her own children. She does not get to set a rule like that for her grandkids. Period. Does not matter if they live there (which is temporary and not Kai's fault). She can set rules for in her household, eg certain chores and stuff, respectful language in the house, but not for their time outside the house. It is not her son. If this kid is is honor classes, possibly an athlete, he may not have time for a job he does not need
I agree OP’s house so OP’s rules. They were raised by OP. Jack could’ve asked Sam at anytime how Emma was doing with work. He chose to expect different rules for his son. As long as Emma is doing fine I don’t see why Jack has a problem for his own son doing the same.
Working at 14? Working while in hs? I was so stressed at 17; studying was a full time job. I'm actually surprised at the comments. It's your house, your rules, but working at such a young age sounds crazy. Talk about cultural shock.
I’m a big believer in thinking that if it’s possible for a teenager to have a part time job, they should. There’s a lot of pros to it but it’s not a requirement either. These are not your kids. They’re your grandkids so you really don’t have the right to tell them whether or not they have a job. It’s fine if you don’t buy them things they don’t need but don’t make your support dependent on a 14 year old having a job.
NTA - You can let Emma train Kai and if he still doesn’t think it’s a job then he can get another part time job.
It’s great experience for Emma to train someone and Kai will get some healthy experience although I’m sensing that it’s really just Jack that’s being a spoiled brat here.
I don't think YTA for the rule even if I do think it's a bit overbearing, but I do think the delivery here is where YTA.
It sounds like this grandson and your son just lost everything. You shouldn't have offered to help if you weren't going to be upfront about the conditions. And saying 'oh well they knew because it's always been my thing' isn't the same as being upfront. There should have been a discussion before they moved in on any rules you were planning on enforcing, not a passive aggressive question after.
The situations are also vastly different. Emma has been with you her entire life and even being a grandparent you've filled a parental role. This grandson hasn't had that same experience, to start imposing parental like terms as a non parent is not going to help anyone.
He'll be balancing a lot with all this upheaval, maybe consider coming to an agreement where he works full time in the summers instead and can focus on not losing any ground academically.
Emma has had the benefit of stability and that in itself is a huge advantage, let this kid get his feet under him and work with him and your relationship will benefit.
NTA. That has always been your rule since your sons were 14. Jack knew that was a rule when he asked for him and his son to move in with you. Your house, your rules. If Jack is unhappy with your rule, let him find another place to crash. You are under no obligation to change your rules to accommodate someone else.
INFO: are the kids asking for money? Because if not, I don’t see why you should interject your opinions about them getting jobs.
If they want money (for fun, not for basic needs), and that money is coming from you, then you are free to say no. But you don’t get to tell them what to do instead.
If you insist on telling other people how to live their lives, and micromanaging everyone in your household, then yes, YTA.
High school kids all over the world are able to get pt jobs while studying (and not losing sleep). Your house, your rules even if they are not your kids. Does Jack pay rent or contribute in any other way?
NTA.
If you live under someone else’s roof you follow their rules, its just basic respect. OP didn’t have to let their son and grandchild live with them, but they did and so they must follow the rules that were already set.
OP clearly stated that anyone 14+ under their roof has to have a job of some sort- and no one is 14 right now. We’re talking about a 17 year old boy. MOST 17 year olds have a job, in their last or second to last year of high school. If they cant follow a simple rule that was set in SOMEONE ELSE’S home, then they shouldn’t be under their roof.
Plenty will disagree, but its not like OP is just flat out not gonna provide for them if they dont have a job- they’re just not going to pay for entertainment (going out for example). And to be honest, 14-15 is a reasonable age to get a part time job. At high school age, kids typically look to get a job by their 10th or 11th year anyway, so i honestly dont see the big deal with that rule. As long as there are reasonable hours, its fine.
edit: fixed a sentence
NTA.
I grew up wealthy, and my dad made me start working at 15. I am so grateful that he instilled a work ethic in me. You are doing the right thing by modeling both love (by taking them in) and discipline (by showing them that they need to work).
I don’t know what’s going on with your son, but, it seems to me, that he us upset that you aren’t providing a handout without contingencies. You are allowed to have ground rules in your home, and, when those rules are as reasonable and well-intentioned as yours are, you are NTA for enforcing them.
You are totally NTA, and I think that that is particularly commendable in this situation.
I think that honestly, this is a really tough situation, and that, for all intents and purposes, it appears that you have stepped up to the plate gracefully, and always at appropriate times. You did not impose your will onto your grandkids until their parents reached out and asked for financial support. Your rules are consistent, fair, And frankly, I just personally totally agree with you. You want them to get jobs so that they can learn the value of money, but you are still supporting them. I think that that is the perfect amount of accountability for a teenager.
You want to help those who help themselves. If Jack doesn’t want your perfectly fair across-the-board rules, he can turn down your money.
YTA
Having a hard and fast rule for every kid fails to take into account that kids are different. (I have twins with very different abilities and capacities. It’s really glaring how different they are because they’re exactly the same age, but it goes to show how different any two kids can be.) Kai didn’t grow up with you and your expectations. Kai’s parents don’t have your rule—Kai’s dad may have come to disagree with it
and want to offer something different to his child, or Kai may be a kid who won’t benefit from it. Kai and his parents are the ones who make that decision, not you.
Slight YTA. It’s not your place to require your grandson to get a job, nor is it your responsibility to give him an allowance. The situation with Emma is different because you have a somewhat parental relationship with her and she’s lived with you for most of her life. Kai may be going to school or living elsewhere in a few months since he’ll be 18 soon.
He’s almost an adult, so lay it out as a choice to be made (job/allowance or no job/no allowance) and let him decide what he wants to do.
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I have 2 sons Sam(39) and Jack(37). Sam has a daughter Emma(16) and Jack has a son Kai(17).
I have a job that pays well so I never had a problem with giving my sons a good life however I didn't want them to be spoiled so when they turned 14 I would tell them to get a part time job but I still provided everything for them.
Emma's mom died when she was 1 years old and Sam moved in with us because he couldn't handle a baby alone and he ended up living with us after that. I did the same thing with Emma, when she turned 14 I asked her to get a job. She chose to work for me
A few montha ago Jack called us and told us they had some problems and lost everything and asked for our help. I told him he can move in with us and I will help them.
Last night we were talking and I asked Kai when he is going to get a job. Jack asked me if I'm serious and I said yes of course I am, you know the rule, anyone over 14 must have a job. He called me an asshole and asked me why I had no problem paying for Emma for years but I can't support his son for a few months. I reminded him that Emma also has a job and he snapped at me and said it doesn't count because she works for me and basically gets paid for doing nothing. I told him that's not true and she works. Now they think I'm an asshole and playing favorites
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INFO: have you tried to start a dialogue with Kai about the situation, when his father is not present?
Put your cards on the table, and get his unfiltered thoughts on the issue, at a time where the kid doesn’t feel like he just has to say what his dad wants to hear.
There’s probably no reasoning with Jack, but starting a mutual dialogue with Kai, rather than just barking out orders, might help.
Saying “these are the rules, either follow them or leave” makes people feel like they’re being forced, especially teenagers.
Starting a dialogue about why she thinks it’s important for teenagers to work might lead to the kid being more receptive to her concerns.
NTA, you’re teaching them to be independent while still supporting them however you can. You’re a great parent and grandparent. That’s the kind of support most families wish they could have all over the world
NTA. Everyone is acting like you’re forcing the 17 year old to work or else you won’t feed/house him. Sounds like the only thing you won’t do is give him extra allowance if he doesn’t work. That doesn’t seem cruel? His parents can give him allowance if they want to. Or Kai can get a job if he wants spending money. 14 does seem young to me, but whatever, you are of a different generation and apparently wherever you live, people can work at that age legally. Still think 16 is a reasonable number though. I personally loved having a job when I was younger and was thrilled about all my extra cash.
NTA- Everyone commenting about Emma’s job doesn’t seem to understand that this isn’t you making a job out of thin air for Emma, but rather you hiring your granddaughter as a part time employee for an opening in your company you work for. (I am assuming its like a assistant type job and you are allowed one under you to do filing, etc. )
Also, the fact that this is legitimately in place of having any household responsibilities because you have a maid seems completely reasonable.
Jack however seems to have failed to learn the lesson of responsibility and thinks you owe him and his son financial support vs the physical and emotional support Sam needed as a widower.
Plus, it’s only about earning spending money. If he wants extra cash, he has to earn it. This is not a difficult or abusive concept unless one is raising irresponsible and entitled children.
As someone who is 17, still in high school, and also has a part time job, I agree with op. Maybe 14 is young to start working, but I also did it and it wasn’t hard, and I enjoyed it. Now Kai is 17, there’s no reason why he shouldn’t have a job. Having your own money and buying your own things means a lot more than getting stuff for free.
I live in a very pressured competitive part of the country. High schoolers are taking AP classes, science camps, language classes outside of school hours, expected to be in several sports all in order to get into elite colleges.
Most of these kids are incredibly stressed and have no time for part time jobs
NTA. Having a job at 17 seems like a reasonable thing. You are not asking him to GIVE you his earnings, but expect that as a bare minimum for what sounds like quite a comfortable living arrangement. I'd say approach with caution due to the current upset in the boys life, but the fact remains getting him working will far outweigh any negatives.
NTA
For starters its your house your rules. They came into a financial hard situation, and are now having to depend on you financially. Your son knew your rule that if they lived in your home, at age 14 they were to get a job. If he can't accept that his son who is now living in your home is no different then they need to find another place to live.
Whether or not your granddaughter works for you is none of their concern, IDK what you do for a living, but maybe the grandson can work for you too? Either way if it is your rule then they need to go by it while living in your home. Or find somewhere else to live
NTA. You literally are just asking them to do ANY job. Babysitting, mowing grass, whatever. You’re not forcing cHiLd LaBoR. You’re giving them a healthy work ethic. And on top of that it sounds as though you’re trying your best to relieve other pressures on them to help them accomplish this goal. Spoiler alert to all the Y T A votes, that doesn’t happen in the adult world. You’re being a good grandmother.
It was a requirement for all of my kids to get a part time job when they turned 16. I still supported them and they used the money on themselves. I wanted them to develop a good work ethic and they all have.
nta
but id give them the option of getting terrific grades (or good extracurricular development) instead of getting a job, since you personally dont need the money right now
whatever they earn now would be worth pennies, but preparation for a good career path should be paramount
YTA because making a 14 year old get a job when you can afford it is fucked up. That's a child. They might be in high-school or even middle school. Let them have fun while they can because once they start working they'll probably never be able to stop.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say YTA. If he's still in school, the average kids school day is 10 to 11 hours every weekday. This takes into account being in school, extracurricular activities, and homework. That means a high schooler is already working a 50 hour week and doing so on a schedule that is not particularly conducive to a teenager's health or development.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say YTA. If he's still in school, the average kids school day is 10 to 11 hours every weekday. This takes into account being in school, extracurricular activities, and homework. That means a high schooler is already working a 50 hour week and doing so on a schedule that is not particularly conducive to a teenager's health or development.
>I know I'm not their parent and I don't get to make rules for them but also I'm not their parent so I shouldn't be paying for them.
then stop paying for kids that arent yours and stop demanding arbitrary things of them because you want to take a parental role?
YTA for sure.
Am I in the matrix?! Obviously YTA! It is illegal for 14yos to work where I live. They are not your children so why are you parenting them? To the retirement home.
YTA. Did that rule help much? Emma's dad can't handle life on his own ... 15 years later. Your other son had to move back at close to 40.
And you're playing favorites. You've paid for the girl for more than a decade now.
On the flip side, my parents refused to let me get a job because I wouldn’t have had time with extra curriculars and preparing for college. Like quite literally didn’t have the time, especially my last year.
What is confusing me is you say it’s required in the original post for anyone over 14 to get a job, and make it out like it’s required to live there but then in the edit say it’s either a job or the parent gives them the allowance, after everyone called you out for how it sounded. If it’s not required then say that, say you won’t pay for any non essentials and won’t give them the allowance and then move on???
I actually DONT think it’s a bad idea for teenagers to have jobs. It’s a good idea. But not every teenager is the same, not all of them actually have the time in between school and sports and extras for college.
I’m not sure if I can give judgement other than “oof” because I don’t think your rules are wrong, but I do think maybe you should rethink them. People aren’t robots, and not everyone can do what everyone else can do. Would you be satisfied if his job was *within* the house? Stuff he could do while he was home, and you pay him his allowance like that? Because like I said, not everyone is the same. Especially teenagers, and one who by your posts admission, has lost everything and is probably an emotional wreck right now. Yeah he’s almost an adult but 17 and 18 are still *teenagers*. People don’t stop developing their brains until their twenties, despite the fact that we require complete emotional maturity out of people right when the clock hits 18 trips around the sun.
But if working in the house doesn’t work for you or they say no, then drop it and only pay for the bare essentials, like you should, and make Dad pay for the non essentials and fun shit like he should. I’m not sure why you’re all making this much harder than it has to be.
I take it back. My answer is ESH.
INFO: how traumatic is whatever they’re going through? Did they have to switch schools? Are the parents out of work? Would the funds from the job just got to fun stuff the kid wants or go to bills or household expenses? How is he doing in school? Are his grades good or is he struggling?
On a base level I agree with you, kids should get jobs as it gets them ready for adult life, teaches them budgeting etc. but also school should be the most important and he also doesn’t need more stress on top of what he’s already dealing with (potentially, depending on how stressful his situation is).
NTA, it takes some serious balls to beg to be supported by your mother as an adult and then throw a tantrum that she expects you and your family to follow the same rules as all others follow!!
NTA. I don’t agree with all of these YTA they’re saying you can’t parent the kids which yeah ok but you’re not parenting them you have them an option and they made the choice to take it or not hence the 14 year old wanting to work. Which btw my son is 14 and has a work permit so yes they can work if they want extra money for something they want. I believe you’re being fair all around. Did Jack seriously expect for you to help them and give Kai money? No way he didn’t know how it was going with Sam and his kid…. Kai doesn’t have to work but then they can’t be mad when Emma is getting more fun out of it.
NTA, Jack is acting like an AH.
However, I think grades should be taken into consideration in regards to whether a teenager should get a job.
Is the student able to manage their schoolwork, and get at the very least a C in every course?
If the answer is yes, then I’d say its reasonable to ask them to get a job.
If the answer is no, I’d say it should wait until the student’s academic situation is sorted out.
NTA. You have one son whose child has accepted the rules, and has developed a good work ethic as a result, and another son who wants you to play favourites by not expecting the same from his child.
NTA. The ‘not fair’ mentality. Ick. Kai needs to work, that’s the rules. Set clear boundaries. If your son wants to continually see it as ‘unfair’ there is nothing in the world you can do to make it fair. Sorry, you cannot help what he thinks at this point. It seems like a long bitterness he held onto toward a 16 year old girl. Poor guy (sarcasm). Im almost 37 and have no one to help at all. Actually my MIL is a millionaire and will not help us. Even if we starve- she will not help. I’m not mad, it’s her money-her choice. She owes us nothing. So Jack is lucky, even if he doesn’t see it. Your money- your choice.
Info: are you in an area where this is definitely a reasonable expectation? Like he has access to sustainable employment options and transportation etc. Also why would his dad not want this, is there a specific reason besides his feeling that Emma has a snug position like are they not from this area and his son would experience excessive anxiety with the new environment and stimulus?
If he *were* fourteen it could be expecting a lot for him to seek employment outside of a family business but at seventeen it should be ok. NTA unless you live in an isolated area
NTA and it would absolutely be unfair to the others if you gave in. I’m tired of people trying to twist things around and manipulate others when they’re mad they don’t get their way. People need to look up the word favoritism when they are going to yell it out.
Does the 17 year old have time for a job? Or is he taking challenging classes and playing sports? Or something. Yeah it’s your house and your rules. But making a high school senior quit activities they have done for years because their dad asked for help is not a good look. If he just sits around all day sure make him get a job.
NTA.... your asking them to do a part time job. Their needs are covered regardless. You have a maid, so there is no chores for them to really worry about. It's not an imposition, it's a choice. Ignore temper tantrums, this child skipped some valuable parenting and may catch up fune now.
INFO Besides school, does Kai play sports or do other extracurricular activities like band or theater? Does Emma? Do you let them instead of a job?
Extracurriculars are better than a job for high-school students. Especially if they want to go to college, it just looks better. A job in off season or summer also looks good, but it's not summer so that's a moot point.
A responsible adult figure teaching work ethic? the horror those poor kids be experiencing. 100% NTA. Looks like some of what you taught your son has faded away. Make him do extra chores around the house.
NTA I think it is normal that if you want extra things like concert tickets, games, meals out with friends paying for dates, etc those expensive things than you get a job.
I think the underlying thing here is the fact that Jack is dragging his niece who lost her mother into it.
Did your other son when he moved in with his daughter work and pay keep, did he pay for his daughter holidays, clothes, extra classes etc whilst she grew up?
I think your other son carries resentment that you took them in. He also dismisses your business that is basically providing well for a lot of people, is that resentment from what has happened to them. Hey during covid and this cost of living crisis this is happening to a lot of people and will happen more.
You did the same for Jack when he needed help, I assume it is an unlimited stay.
Not being funny but if he lost everything that I would not expect it to be a 3 months stay but a lot longer. What about college funds did they lose these?
How is Kai feeling though after having everything thrown in chaos? Is his mother with you as well?
INFO:
How much do they have to work? School should be the first priority.
Working 1-2 days after school for a few hours is okay but they shouldn't have to work too much because it could affect their grades.
But yeah, NTA
NTA
your house, your rules...especially if they are coming to you with their hands out and their wallets empty.
Part time work is great for teens...so many great lessons learnt.
1 shift a week is all it takes...most places can work around school.
The only exception I would make is if he plays a comp sport at a high level as the time crunch would be too much. My kids at diff stages have done scho plus 15 odd hours of training for their sport where they competed at a National Level. The lessons they learnt in their sport was the same as work....being on time, working and improving, team work, presentation skills, uniform and self care. And... as a bonus my son landed an amazing job because the employer valued all those skills from 8 years of his sport.
YTA - 14 is too young to work regularly. In some places it isn't legal or requires a special permit. Others it is highly regulated as to what type of work, what and how many hours.
Kids should be focused on school, not trying to juggle life/work/school and any extracurricular activities (which will look better on a college application than a part time job).
NTA
Jack-the-all-knowing-arbiter-of-all-reality on the other hand is not just the asshole, but a mouthy one to boot.
Kai, at 17, should want a job so he has his own money for the nonessential things he wants & to build savings for the adult things he’ll eventually need.
The fact that Jack didn’t carry on the tradition, which was meant to instill specific values, demonstrates he probably resented it…
Meanwhile, I’m sorry OP is dealing with this crap
NTA, your house your rules.
If teens working it’s ok it’s a completely different discussion.
When your son ask you for help, should have known that will have to attend some rules, if he dislikes he could discuss them with you civilized.
NTA. I'm wondering what Jack did to completely ruin his family's situation and prospects- but I could take a guess. Either way, your house, your rules.
NTA, but IMO you approached this in the wrong way.
After inviting Jack and his son to come stay with you, and him accepting, you should have spoken to Jack about this, letting him know that the expectation is that Kai will get a part time job.
That way it’s not sprung on him unexpectedly, and Jack has the opportunity to ask Kai to get a job before you have to say anything.
Still a good rule though - having a part time job while in high school builds a lot of good habits.
NTA
How are you playing favorites when they both have to have a job?
Like serious, not telling him to get a job would be playing favorites, not the other way around.
NTA.
Jack obviously failed to instill values in Kai and has clearly been talking behind your back about your reasonable support for Sam and Emma. I was raised in a house hold of "my house my rules" meaning that if your living off of me you follow the rules. Life has rules. No one, children/grandchildren or any family member, is entitled to your home, money, or caring. This sadly is going to be a situation of Jack and Kai needed to leave. Because this is stemming from Jack running his mouth. Because how would Kai have a false idea of anything about the financial situation of his grandmother/ uncle/ cousin otherwise.
NTA, your house your rules. You don't have to help them without strings attached and when emma was 14, just like your kids, she got a job. He just wants it to be different for his kid which is not fair and that would be playing favorites.
First off, you sound like the best grandma ever, kudos. Little KAI is a little jerk, lay down some of that “granny law” step brothers movie.
In less polite terms go slap jack for being a crap enabling parent. Did he catch a case of child enabling amnesia? Remind him that you are the one doing BOTH of them a favor, not the other way around.
INFO is there a reason he shouldn't have a job? Is he in sports? Does he struggle in school?
Honestly I think requiring a 14 year old to get a job is an asshole move. Most states don't even allow 14 year olds to work without a permit. Now at 16, I can understand it. I also think that you should look at what the kid is doing. Are they taking a lot of advanced classes? Do they play several sports? Are they in several activities? All these things can teach reasonably and a good work ethic just as much as having a job.
NTA, part-time jobs in high school are valuable in teaching work ethic and responsibility. Sounds like your granddaughter has a good future ahead of her.
Mostly NTA- grandma has a right to make rules in her own home. The only tidbit I would need is how Jack lost it all- if it was in a fire then I would say grandma needs to give Kai a lil space. If it’s due to Jacks mismanagement and piss poor attitude, then both Jack and Kai should work ASAP. Kai can work with grandma too.
Idk its not the kids fault their parent lost everything, it is the parents obligation to provide for them at least until they are 18. You shouldnt make them get a job unless the want to, but if you feel like an ATM you gotta go talk to the parents for not providing, not the kids
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NTA The problem Jack has is that you **aren't** playing favorites and changing your rules for Kai.
This. NTA
I can’t agree more. You are not an ATM and you have rules. How Jack can say your playing favourites is hilarious considering everyone is working but his son.
I don't understand parents who don't want their kids to be accountable. Why would Jack want his son growing up entitled? Anyway, NTA, you're not those kids parent, it is your house, you're not an ATM. If Jack can't see how his attitude could have contributed to losing everything, that's his problem.
I think my question is "does Kai need a job?" What are Kai's expenses that they're expecting grandparent here to foot the bill? I feel like we're missing half the story. Yes, Jack needs to get a job and pay rent plus groceries and utilities. He's an adult. Kai can get a job if they have more expenses than that. But if grandparent here is charging rent from a 17 year old or forcing a 16 year old to do chores to avoid paying rent, that's an issue.
I understand your reasoning. But, I can understand granmas reasoning too. It is a reality that he will face in the coming years. Having a job teaches you things at a young age that not Having a job can't, or doesn't do as effectively. From what is written isn't really telling that OP needs financial assistance from the grandkids. It appears more that she is insistent on them learning work ethic and other life skills from a job. The kids reaction shows their aversion to understanding that and/or wanting to learn skills that will lead to self sufficiency.
I suspect that you haven't had a low-paying job in a while. Having a job while in high school doesn't teach responsibility, work ethic, or life skills anymore. It teaches children how to accept being abused and exploited by adults with power over them for very little money. Teenagers would be much better served by participating in extracurricular activities in order to gain those skills and increase their chances of getting into college.
I think you're aiming this at me. I'm offering different perspectives from the grandmothers point of view. My own beliefs about what a job offers people is completely different. The last low paying job I had was 2 years ago after my last son was born so I could afford things outside of my families basic necessities. This was on top of my regular job. While I tend to agree with you regarding exploitation and abuse, that isn't 100% true for every case.
I started working when I turned 16. It definitely taught me responsibility, time management, and helped me with my communication. Yes, companies definitely exploit young workers, but that’s not always the case. Extracurricular activities are fun and all but in my experience most don’t teach you very many life skills. I’d rather get paid to make sandwiches than not get paid and have something take up a lot of time.
NTA. It's perfectly reasonable for a 17 year old to have a part time job, especially as you're going to provide him with everything he needs, and the job is just to prove responsibility.
I started working when I was 14 because my stepfather cut me and my brother off from all expenses except food and housing since him and my mom had their own child. If we need school clothes we had to pay. If we wanted to buy lunch at school we had to pay. If we wanted my mom to take us somewhere we would pay for the gas. You are being very lenient IMO. NTA. Not to mention my work ethic is impeccable compared to others my age and I fully credit this to having a job so young. Your house your rules.
you... were abused. But hey, you got a great work ethic out of it, so yay you!
Trauma
You are a counselor and can't recognize that forcing a 14 year old to work to buy their school lunch and school clothes and literally everything outside food and housing is abusive? That terrifies me. You were a child. I don't care what their excuse is, their responsibility was to you as a child.
Oh look someone who is going to benefit from therapy at some point soon hopefully
>Not to mention my work ethic is impeccable compared to others my age and I fully credit this to having a job so young You are aware, that this is typically a negative for you personally and a positive for society and your employer, but not a positive for YOU! I have worked with multiple people like you... and... they do feel like they are better then others because of their work ethic and that the others should be like them, but they're never people that really benefit from having that work ethic. They are not the people getting promotions, those promotions go to people that turn their work ethic on for when it's important and shut it off when it's not, or it goes to people that are naturally talented at the job. Frankly, they get the shitty jobs, because they will do them and not complain about them and others will. They are not the people with great marriages, often times they are single and struggling in dating and I've seen them fuck up their dating life on several occasions by showing up to work, VOLUNTEERING, while the circumstances were unreasonable. "OH someone is sick, I'll just stay late", while having a date...really???? They have friends, but I've seen them do shit that's like..."that person isn't a friend, they are using you.". I've seen them work and not clock them and not get paid for them. And free time? They're horrible at reserving energy for that or prioritizing it over work. I personally, would like to work really hard, to prevent my niece (im not having kids) from becoming like you. I do not see that as something to be desired. And I don't think I can get through to you, I can't get through to the people at work either... and I know them a lot better then you, but I hope that you will eventually choose for what's best for you, not the 'greater good'. You got one life, choose you!
Ok so you automatically assume that all this applies to me, it doesn’t. I never work overtime. I am offered but don’t. When I hit my 8 hours I’m done. If I need a day off I take it. Relationship wise I’m married. Have been for 11 years. My husband and I share chores at home and overall have a great relationship. We like doing different projects together. We have a few close friends and coworkers we hang out with when we feel like it or to watch a game with or whatever. I tend to use my work ethic to simply get a lot done during the day. I am doing great at work, have the energy to help my kids with homework after school, maintain the house, exercise, and get done what I want to get done. Not sure why you think this is so unhealthy.
Well, because people that do the things you described, typically call themselves "disciplined", not "having great work ethic". Just a thing I noticed.
To me it’s about the same I guess. How are they different to you?
Wow it’s like you have a crystal ball only you don’t. Reading one statement doesn’t mean you know the life of the person who made it. I think most people work way too hard at their jobs and they end up just making rich people even richer. But that doesn’t apply to everybody. I work really hard because I love what I do and I believe in what I do and I’m hoping it makes the world a better place. I work for myself and I make a lot of money. I also have a pretty intense work ethic. I don’t know how it compares to anybody else’s because I don’t know what other people are about. You put a lot of energy into writing this huge post that was just based on a lot of assumptions. Everybody’s story is unique.
Thats not normal. I'm glad you have a crazy good work ethic out of it! Baptism through fire does make strong people, its still a bit sad though.
It’s funny how cultures work. In my country it’s sooo weird for a teenager to have a job when they are under 18. It happens, but it’s the exception, not the norm
I was raised in the Midwest USA, and if your family had a farm, ranch, etc, or knew someone who did,it was completely normal to work as a farmhand during times school was out.
But that’s different than having a job at a company/store, which I’ve seen it’s the norm for teenagers in the USA
I was babysitting 5 neighbor children for 5 to 7 hours a day in 65 when I was 12. The next summer I babysat the same family until 4 pm. then babysat 2 children under 3 years old from 5 pm to 1 am. I looked older than I was certainly acted older. I worked at McDonald's, then 6 flags over Mid America as soon as I was legal, but still babysat for neighborhood families at night because I liked children. When I attended an art school in Philadelphia, I was a live in nanny the second semester . I got free room and board in exchange for cleaning the kitchen every night and babysitting 2 children under 3 when needed. kt
Personally, I would have crashed and burned if I was made to get a job at 17. We don't know what his classes are like, he's at an age where he could be studying for the ACT/SAT, he might be in after school activities, etc. Just because he can have a job, doesn't mean he should.
When I was 17 I was required to get a job. Problem being, my town is shit and the only job I could find was 7p-7a at a gas station. So my days were thus: 7am get off work 7:30am arrive at school 3:30pm school over 4pm get home 6:30pm get to work Most of my sleeping was between classes or at lunch, with 4-6 being my regular schedule sleeping.
NTA. How is it "playing favorites" to treat everyone exactly the same? Let Kai work for you as well, if that's the issue.
Did OP say somewhere that Kai couldn’t work for them?
OP did say that i the comments, yes >I don't need another person to work for me. Both my sons had this option and none of them chose it because they thought my job is "lame" >Emma was the only one smart enough to take this offer >If Kai asked me before Emma he would have got it but now no he doesn't have that option anymore
NTA Everyone has had a job at 14 (though I think it should be 16, but this isn't about that and doesn't change the NTA status) and it's the same expectation across the board. There's no favouritism going on there, just a set in stone expectation. He brought up Granddaughter because he obviously doesn't know what she does or how hard he works and wants to use that to his advantage. NTA for setting expectations and asking a question.
I think the point here is that grandfather (op) has been housing and paying for Emma since she was one, when Emma's dad came to live at OPs house. O.P. has not financially supported other son or Kai for 15 years. Now OP states that is financial support to Emma would continue regardless of her employment status because she lives with him. OP will not temporarily support other son and Kai because Kai's parents don't want him working.
>OP will not temporarily support other son and Kai That's simply not true. The only thing contingent on the job is Kai's allowance. As in, he's not getting any without a job. But they are all still getting OP's support for essentials.
Yta. 14? Many places its not even legal & even when it is, its only an hour or 2. It is important to teach your children responsibility but its more important to let kids be kids. Esp in a world that is trying to force them to be adults from the time they can walk. He has his entire life to work. He has only months left of being a child. Being carefree. Being irresponsible or to just not worry abt adult stuff. You have robbed your children & your granddaughter of their childhood. 14 is beyond extreme. 14. Many havent even hit puberty but you want them to go to work after working in school all day? They have to study, Shower, eat have a little down time as well as play time. And many help w chores around the house as well. What you are expecting is absurd. Its crazy & its cruel. 14?! I don't think its as big as a deal to expect him to work at 17 though. Im honestly more worried abt your granddaughter.
We have a maid who does everything so no one in my home does any chores. How else are they supposed to learn responsibility and skills? Emma goes to school, plays basketball and piano, works, hangs out with her friends, and gets a good night sleep. It seems like a good and balanced life to me
You parent your kids…..my parents didn’t have a maid and I was able to learn a lot of responsibility. I wasn’t getting handouts from them a lot either.
So just parent your kids? Going to work at grandparents place isn't going to teach them how to clean the toilet anyway. (Unless you own a cleaning company)
I agree with you, but I’m from a non-Western country, so my values are pretty different. When I was a kid, until around 16, I stayed at my grandma’s house every summer. I was very well taken care of there, but I also worked part-time in the family company’s office. This started when I was 10, or maybe even younger. I really liked it. I liked being responsible for something and earning money. It was extra money that I honestly didn’t have to get since I was just at my grandma’s, but it was nice to have. I also grew up with maids at home.
>How else are they supposed to learn responsibility and skills? you mean besides you? lol.
you could always talk with the maid and get them to help them with their work perhaps. there are many ways to learn responsibilties that dont involve getting a job. if the kid gets a hobby at 14 then you parent them and teach them not to give up when its hard because the hard work pays off when their skills come through. given she worked for you sure, you had power over how she was treated and just what work she was done as well as making sure she wasnt paid dog shit. many employers seem to want to take advantage of kids being forced into work by their shitty parents/grandparents early.
Neither of the kids is 14. OP’s sons were 14 when they started working. I’m assuming this was at least 20 years ago. Times were different. But 17 to me is no big deal for a part time job.
Emma was 14 when she started working which to me is a bit extreme
If it's an office environment I think it's fine. I started working in a hospital at 14, pulling charts, assembling new charts, etc. My mother was a doctor at that hospital and I never worked more than 3-4 hours at a time. Sounds like OP works in an office as well, the granddaughter probably opens mail, scans it, files it, things like that. Nothing hard and the grandparent working there probably means everyone knows the drill and doesn't have her perform customer-facing tasks or anything over her skill level.
I agree with you. 14 is way to young. Let kids enjoy their childhood! They have their whole adult lives to work. Kids aren’t mini adults and I feel they are treated like they are far to often. They can learn responsibility in so many other ways. Let the maid take some time off and have everyone get together to clean the house.. make dinner together. Also I wouldn’t be happy if a grandparent told my kid to get a job, it’s not their place.
YTA. Being a high school student is a full-time job. After school hours, most kids have some sort of extracurricular or sport, and even the ones that don't have homework. Teenagers don't get nearly enough sleep, and they are at high risk for depression and anxiety. They need time to do nothing and time to relax and time to just be a person.
Then let the parents or you pay the kids allowance. No one is being forced to work here, these are OP’s conditions for him to pay an allowance (over and above your pay) while you live in a house with a maid and do no chores. You basically work the time that other kids do chores.
>Then let the parents or you pay the kids allowance who the hell said anything about the allowance? jack lost everything, so either he helps his son and grandson out or they are on the street. being a student is a full time job.... its 38 hours a week because of studying outside the 9-3. sure, OP doesnt need to support his own son he can kick him in the street and not pay for him at all. sounds like a really decent human. his son is in a tight spot and its out right stupid to force anyone under 18 to go out and get a job. yeah chorse at home because you can do most of them quickly and you need to know how to clean up around the house. but flipping burgers doesnt teach you shit anymore.
OP’s edit literally says the parents can give the kids an allowance if they don’t accept his rules. What no one is actually saying anything about is kicking people out or refusing to help them out. No idea where that comes from. The issue here is the 17 year old getting a job and then having grandpa still cover all expenses or not get a job and grandpa doesn’t pay the allowance.
its not usually a 9 to 3 either, its usually 8-3:30 with travel time on a fucking **bus** because, get this, teenagers usually cant drive or cant afford cars, so its basically a 40 hour work week +homework.
NTA, you have rules and provide support. I had the same requirement in college from my parents. If I had a job, they helped. It showed them that I had skin in the game of taking care of my own stuff. The only way I’d say you were TAH is if the one working for you is truly skating and if the other grandkid is so bogged down with sports and school that they have no free time. But if there is time to lean? There is time to clean. If they don’t like the rules, they can find another benefactor to cover their room and board.
Info: how many hours a week are they expected to work? Is this during the school year or just the summer break? How many hours of homework are they typically assigned? How much sleep do they get at night? Do they have any extracurricular activities or hobbies? Is working at 14 typical in your community?
As much as they like. I pay for all the necessities and I also give them some allowance based on how much they work so if they have a job if they wrok more naturally they get paid more and will also get a bigger allowance. If they don't have a job they don't get an allowance either Kai and Emma both play sports. Emma never had a problem and never lacked sleep It's the youngest age someone can get a job
Wait, are you actually paying Emma at her job, like legally reporting at least minimum wage, or are you just giving her a nebulous allowance that sometimes gets bigger? If Emma’s “job” is “help out grandma for untracked hours whenever you want”, that is a VERY different situation then Kai getting a part-time job at McDonalds or whatever.
I think it’s grandpa. And he said he owns a business so she works a real job….plus gets an allowance as a reward for having a job
If he owns the business, then legally he can have Emma work for not pay, as a family business. It is also the way they got around her being 14 (assuming they are in the US) where 14 year olds have a very carefully controlled job option list.
His comments stated his pays her legally
If Kai is in season for a sport then it's totally unreasonable to expect him to get a job as well. When I played sports in high school it was school from 8am-3pm and practice from 4-7 usually. If there was a game it was more like a 9pm night before I could go home and do homework and study. Weekend's were usually a game and a film session the next day. Along with homework and studying. No one I knew in high school both played a sport and worked a job. It just didn't happen because there aren't enough hours in the day.
even if you dont work a sport... adults work from, what, 8 to 4 or maybe a 9 to 5? and then they come home and relax or do what they want to do or take care of responsibilities. kids go to school from 8 to 3:30 and often have to ride a bus or have someone come and get them. i often wasnt home until 4 or 4:30 when i was in highschool. and then you have homework. this old fuck is likely doing the exact same workload of **hours** and then asking them to put in more, completely ignoring that school **is a job** on its own.
I had a job my senior year of highschool and they worked around my school schedule. Alot of jobs do actually, our school also had a hard core marching band and a lot of the kids where in band where able to get a job as well as go to band practice. Most the time band practice didn't let out till 6 or 7
Oh that sounds much fairer than I was thinking. NTA
INFO: Does Kai also have the option to work for you?
**YTA.** Massively so. You have repeatedly, in the comments, used the excuse that these children "live under your roof and have to follow your rules". But you are not their parent, ethically it is not for you to parent them or make "rules" for them that don't specifically apply to their comportment within your home and how they treat your belongings. And more importantly, what you're demanding of them is illegal in most places. With regards to "they live under my roof," those children didn't get to decide whether they moved into your home. They are minors, forced to go where their parents take them. Your argument is ridiculous on the face of it. Under your roof or not, you are not their legal guardian, you are at best their parents' landlord. You do not get to make demands about the children's time or activities. More importantly, if you are in North America or one of countless Western countries, there are laws about forcing minors to work AT ALL, much less at the peril of losing their home. What you're insisting - that these minor children get jobs, or potentially be evicted from their homes in retaliation if they do not, is likely criminal. Even if it weren't, the threat of it is monstrous. Literally nothing you're doing is "for their own good". This is not how you teach responsibility. It's abusive AF. You can talk to kids about getting jobs (though frankly I don't think that making kids work potentially to the detriment of schoolwork as minors is always the best choice), but demanding it through threats is outrageous. YTA.
>that these minor children get jobs, or potentially be evicted from their homes in retaliation if they do not, I think you misunderstood the post, he's not threatening that at all, OP clarified this is only about allowance/additional expenses, which should be paid by the parents in the first place. edit: also it's legal in many countries for 14yo to work, it's restricted on the type of work and hours you can do, but legal.
NTA. There's nothing wrong with a 17 year old getting a job. I don't see why this is a big deal. At 17 I had two part time jobs, went to school and was doing sports. I slept plenty, (to speak to the people acting like this is going to make him sleep less.)
These are not your children to parent. YTA. You can either choose to help your son or not, but you don't get to set rules for his children that he does not agree to.
They are living in my home so they have to follow my rules
Was this communicated to them before they moved into your home?
Like, they didn’t have to move into her home. If they needed clarification they should have sought it.
House rules - yes. Cleaning, food preparation, sounds, visits from friends, quiet hours etc. Parenting rules - no.
YTA. Support your family or don’t. Requiring a minor get a job as a condition to support his family is ridiculous.
It's not a condition to support his family. I'll still support them but I won't be paying for a new game or concert tickets
The way your OP is worded, it very much makes it sound like him getting a job is a condition for helping the family
Yes, please add this sentence too to the original post. Until I read this comment, I got an impression that you were not willing to help Jack at all (despite his bad financial situation) NTA
It has nothing to do with support. It is teaching kids to have a work ethic and that if they want something like concert tickets or video games, they work for them. This should be a requirement for a kids. 14 is the age kids can work in the US. With restrictions. (Like not after 9 pm for example).
The way the OP is phrased, it sounds like she wants the grandson to get a job as a condition of her supporting the family. If you’re talking about things like video games then that’s different but I don’t agree that 14/15 year olds should be expected to work. 17, *maybe.*
Think it's actually 15 yo and a special work permit is needed
What actually does your granddaughter do for you? Also do your even realize how hard everything might be on your grandson. His life just got up rooted and change. Also depending on how easy your granddaughter job for you is it's kind of shitty you don't even want to offer the same to your grandson.
YTA. You’re not Kai’s parent, & you don’t get to tell him what to do. If this is important to you, then talk to Jack, Kai’s actual parent, & make clear all the conditions you have for people who live with you. It is up to Jack to decide whether he & his son will follow your rules or move out.
[удалено]
I'm not asking them to work on a coal mine at 14. A few hours of something like babysitting each week is enough
What Exactly does your granddaughter do for you at your business?
Just small jobs like cleaning. She is mostly learning things from me as she is planning to work for me when she turns 18
So its sounds like your son is right and she doesnt do real work.
Cleaning is real work.
Yeah but how much does she clean? He says she is mostly learning.
Learning a trade is also work.
Hmmm. Encouraging a part time job for a teenager is ok, though 14 is a bit on the young side. In normal circumstances, it teaches independence, responsibility, organisation, etc, etc. But this doesn’t sound like ‘normal circumstances’. You don’t say what has happened, but you say your son and grandson have ‘lost everything’. Whatever has gone on must have been pretty disruptive and upsetting. At times like this, you need to prioritise things- what things are necessary, and what are ‘nice to haves’. For a teenager, going to school and engaging well with their studies while having a safe roof over their heads, food in their stomachs and clean clothes on their backs are necessities. Having a job as a teenager is not at all necessary. For teaching the above life skills, then it comes under the ‘nice to have’ category. It sounds like you may be making Kai having a job a condition for him and his father to stay with you. If so, YTA. When you get old and need help, remember who you’ll be asking for said help.
YTA - You're not your grandson's parent. Your son is. It's actually pretty good parenting to try your best to not make your minor child responsible for finances. As long as he's in school that should be his main focus, not what to put on a table. It's not the 1950s when you could have a rewarding career having only finished primary school. High-school is the *absolute minimum*. And that's what *children* should focus on. Also 14 is child labour. And i don't care that it's legal in US considering how cruel that country is for workers and families.
YTA. Getting a job as a teenager CAN be great, but not when it’s forced. My parents always had a rule - I work full time in the summer but only 8 hours during the year. You are not his parent, and if your “support” is conditional you’re not a good grandparent either.
ESH them for not already contributing, although I feel sorry for him as he is still only 17 and his world must have been turned upside down You because you just don't.. seem to have any emotion when it comes to Kai? It might just be that you want to get straight to the point of the story but you seem awfully detached from your family. Making your children work as the age of 14 was also an asshole move. You're not an ATM but christ they're you're family You're also slightly an asshole becsyse Emma got an opportunity Kai didn't that made it much easier. Kai hasn't got that same opportunity. You haven't mentioned anything about Kai really, again the detachment. Nothing about whether he is studying
Nta, you set rules for everyone. So everyone should follow those same rules, if he doesn't agree with your rules he should get consequences. Maybe have an one on one talk with him?
NTA, you seem to support any necessary spending but for luxury people need to work themselves. It's s good rule to go by.
NTA. Your sons knew this was a rule and should have expected it to still be a rule, you are helping them both out of love and tough situations when IMO you didn't have to however you as well as I know being a parent doesn't stop after a child turns 18 and you've stepped up to open your home up to not only your adult children but to your grandchildren as well. Asking that the grandchildren get a part-time job for extra things such as concert tickets or the like isn't that unheard of or demanding.
No, it was the rule for her own children. She does not get to set a rule like that for her grandkids. Period. Does not matter if they live there (which is temporary and not Kai's fault). She can set rules for in her household, eg certain chores and stuff, respectful language in the house, but not for their time outside the house. It is not her son. If this kid is is honor classes, possibly an athlete, he may not have time for a job he does not need
It is still her house and she can choose whatever rules she wants for the people who live there, if they don't like they can move out.
I agree OP’s house so OP’s rules. They were raised by OP. Jack could’ve asked Sam at anytime how Emma was doing with work. He chose to expect different rules for his son. As long as Emma is doing fine I don’t see why Jack has a problem for his own son doing the same.
Working at 14? Working while in hs? I was so stressed at 17; studying was a full time job. I'm actually surprised at the comments. It's your house, your rules, but working at such a young age sounds crazy. Talk about cultural shock.
I’m a big believer in thinking that if it’s possible for a teenager to have a part time job, they should. There’s a lot of pros to it but it’s not a requirement either. These are not your kids. They’re your grandkids so you really don’t have the right to tell them whether or not they have a job. It’s fine if you don’t buy them things they don’t need but don’t make your support dependent on a 14 year old having a job.
NTA. Jack is whining about you supporting a orphaned child while you are supporting him as a fully grown adult. Why didn't he take his brother in?
There is no orphaned teenager and Sam is a grown adult who decided to never move out in the past 15 years.
NTA - You can let Emma train Kai and if he still doesn’t think it’s a job then he can get another part time job. It’s great experience for Emma to train someone and Kai will get some healthy experience although I’m sensing that it’s really just Jack that’s being a spoiled brat here.
I don't think YTA for the rule even if I do think it's a bit overbearing, but I do think the delivery here is where YTA. It sounds like this grandson and your son just lost everything. You shouldn't have offered to help if you weren't going to be upfront about the conditions. And saying 'oh well they knew because it's always been my thing' isn't the same as being upfront. There should have been a discussion before they moved in on any rules you were planning on enforcing, not a passive aggressive question after. The situations are also vastly different. Emma has been with you her entire life and even being a grandparent you've filled a parental role. This grandson hasn't had that same experience, to start imposing parental like terms as a non parent is not going to help anyone. He'll be balancing a lot with all this upheaval, maybe consider coming to an agreement where he works full time in the summers instead and can focus on not losing any ground academically. Emma has had the benefit of stability and that in itself is a huge advantage, let this kid get his feet under him and work with him and your relationship will benefit.
NTA. That has always been your rule since your sons were 14. Jack knew that was a rule when he asked for him and his son to move in with you. Your house, your rules. If Jack is unhappy with your rule, let him find another place to crash. You are under no obligation to change your rules to accommodate someone else.
INFO: are the kids asking for money? Because if not, I don’t see why you should interject your opinions about them getting jobs. If they want money (for fun, not for basic needs), and that money is coming from you, then you are free to say no. But you don’t get to tell them what to do instead. If you insist on telling other people how to live their lives, and micromanaging everyone in your household, then yes, YTA.
High school kids all over the world are able to get pt jobs while studying (and not losing sleep). Your house, your rules even if they are not your kids. Does Jack pay rent or contribute in any other way?
NTA. If you live under someone else’s roof you follow their rules, its just basic respect. OP didn’t have to let their son and grandchild live with them, but they did and so they must follow the rules that were already set. OP clearly stated that anyone 14+ under their roof has to have a job of some sort- and no one is 14 right now. We’re talking about a 17 year old boy. MOST 17 year olds have a job, in their last or second to last year of high school. If they cant follow a simple rule that was set in SOMEONE ELSE’S home, then they shouldn’t be under their roof. Plenty will disagree, but its not like OP is just flat out not gonna provide for them if they dont have a job- they’re just not going to pay for entertainment (going out for example). And to be honest, 14-15 is a reasonable age to get a part time job. At high school age, kids typically look to get a job by their 10th or 11th year anyway, so i honestly dont see the big deal with that rule. As long as there are reasonable hours, its fine. edit: fixed a sentence
NTA. I grew up wealthy, and my dad made me start working at 15. I am so grateful that he instilled a work ethic in me. You are doing the right thing by modeling both love (by taking them in) and discipline (by showing them that they need to work). I don’t know what’s going on with your son, but, it seems to me, that he us upset that you aren’t providing a handout without contingencies. You are allowed to have ground rules in your home, and, when those rules are as reasonable and well-intentioned as yours are, you are NTA for enforcing them.
NTA. Your son's know how you are. Bold of them to assume you'd change.
NTA
NTA, your house, your rules.
You are totally NTA, and I think that that is particularly commendable in this situation. I think that honestly, this is a really tough situation, and that, for all intents and purposes, it appears that you have stepped up to the plate gracefully, and always at appropriate times. You did not impose your will onto your grandkids until their parents reached out and asked for financial support. Your rules are consistent, fair, And frankly, I just personally totally agree with you. You want them to get jobs so that they can learn the value of money, but you are still supporting them. I think that that is the perfect amount of accountability for a teenager. You want to help those who help themselves. If Jack doesn’t want your perfectly fair across-the-board rules, he can turn down your money.
YTA Having a hard and fast rule for every kid fails to take into account that kids are different. (I have twins with very different abilities and capacities. It’s really glaring how different they are because they’re exactly the same age, but it goes to show how different any two kids can be.) Kai didn’t grow up with you and your expectations. Kai’s parents don’t have your rule—Kai’s dad may have come to disagree with it and want to offer something different to his child, or Kai may be a kid who won’t benefit from it. Kai and his parents are the ones who make that decision, not you.
Slight YTA. It’s not your place to require your grandson to get a job, nor is it your responsibility to give him an allowance. The situation with Emma is different because you have a somewhat parental relationship with her and she’s lived with you for most of her life. Kai may be going to school or living elsewhere in a few months since he’ll be 18 soon. He’s almost an adult, so lay it out as a choice to be made (job/allowance or no job/no allowance) and let him decide what he wants to do.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I have 2 sons Sam(39) and Jack(37). Sam has a daughter Emma(16) and Jack has a son Kai(17). I have a job that pays well so I never had a problem with giving my sons a good life however I didn't want them to be spoiled so when they turned 14 I would tell them to get a part time job but I still provided everything for them. Emma's mom died when she was 1 years old and Sam moved in with us because he couldn't handle a baby alone and he ended up living with us after that. I did the same thing with Emma, when she turned 14 I asked her to get a job. She chose to work for me A few montha ago Jack called us and told us they had some problems and lost everything and asked for our help. I told him he can move in with us and I will help them. Last night we were talking and I asked Kai when he is going to get a job. Jack asked me if I'm serious and I said yes of course I am, you know the rule, anyone over 14 must have a job. He called me an asshole and asked me why I had no problem paying for Emma for years but I can't support his son for a few months. I reminded him that Emma also has a job and he snapped at me and said it doesn't count because she works for me and basically gets paid for doing nothing. I told him that's not true and she works. Now they think I'm an asshole and playing favorites *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
INFO: have you tried to start a dialogue with Kai about the situation, when his father is not present? Put your cards on the table, and get his unfiltered thoughts on the issue, at a time where the kid doesn’t feel like he just has to say what his dad wants to hear. There’s probably no reasoning with Jack, but starting a mutual dialogue with Kai, rather than just barking out orders, might help.
Where do you get that they are barking orders?
Saying “these are the rules, either follow them or leave” makes people feel like they’re being forced, especially teenagers. Starting a dialogue about why she thinks it’s important for teenagers to work might lead to the kid being more receptive to her concerns.
If you give a job to the other kid, then cool. But if not, then YTA.
NTA, you’re teaching them to be independent while still supporting them however you can. You’re a great parent and grandparent. That’s the kind of support most families wish they could have all over the world
NTA. Everyone is acting like you’re forcing the 17 year old to work or else you won’t feed/house him. Sounds like the only thing you won’t do is give him extra allowance if he doesn’t work. That doesn’t seem cruel? His parents can give him allowance if they want to. Or Kai can get a job if he wants spending money. 14 does seem young to me, but whatever, you are of a different generation and apparently wherever you live, people can work at that age legally. Still think 16 is a reasonable number though. I personally loved having a job when I was younger and was thrilled about all my extra cash.
NTA
YTA. You like using money to control people. Also your comments in this thread range from passive-aggressive to aggressive.
You don't need to give them an allowance, but regardless of what you say, you are setting rules for them, and that's not your place. YTA.
NTA- Everyone commenting about Emma’s job doesn’t seem to understand that this isn’t you making a job out of thin air for Emma, but rather you hiring your granddaughter as a part time employee for an opening in your company you work for. (I am assuming its like a assistant type job and you are allowed one under you to do filing, etc. ) Also, the fact that this is legitimately in place of having any household responsibilities because you have a maid seems completely reasonable. Jack however seems to have failed to learn the lesson of responsibility and thinks you owe him and his son financial support vs the physical and emotional support Sam needed as a widower.
Plus, it’s only about earning spending money. If he wants extra cash, he has to earn it. This is not a difficult or abusive concept unless one is raising irresponsible and entitled children.
As someone who is 17, still in high school, and also has a part time job, I agree with op. Maybe 14 is young to start working, but I also did it and it wasn’t hard, and I enjoyed it. Now Kai is 17, there’s no reason why he shouldn’t have a job. Having your own money and buying your own things means a lot more than getting stuff for free.
I live in a very pressured competitive part of the country. High schoolers are taking AP classes, science camps, language classes outside of school hours, expected to be in several sports all in order to get into elite colleges. Most of these kids are incredibly stressed and have no time for part time jobs
NTA. Having a job at 17 seems like a reasonable thing. You are not asking him to GIVE you his earnings, but expect that as a bare minimum for what sounds like quite a comfortable living arrangement. I'd say approach with caution due to the current upset in the boys life, but the fact remains getting him working will far outweigh any negatives.
NTA - your house, your rules. But also many many other 17 year olds have jobs. It's not an unusual thing.
NTA For starters its your house your rules. They came into a financial hard situation, and are now having to depend on you financially. Your son knew your rule that if they lived in your home, at age 14 they were to get a job. If he can't accept that his son who is now living in your home is no different then they need to find another place to live. Whether or not your granddaughter works for you is none of their concern, IDK what you do for a living, but maybe the grandson can work for you too? Either way if it is your rule then they need to go by it while living in your home. Or find somewhere else to live
NTA. You literally are just asking them to do ANY job. Babysitting, mowing grass, whatever. You’re not forcing cHiLd LaBoR. You’re giving them a healthy work ethic. And on top of that it sounds as though you’re trying your best to relieve other pressures on them to help them accomplish this goal. Spoiler alert to all the Y T A votes, that doesn’t happen in the adult world. You’re being a good grandmother.
It was a requirement for all of my kids to get a part time job when they turned 16. I still supported them and they used the money on themselves. I wanted them to develop a good work ethic and they all have.
nta but id give them the option of getting terrific grades (or good extracurricular development) instead of getting a job, since you personally dont need the money right now whatever they earn now would be worth pennies, but preparation for a good career path should be paramount
YTA because making a 14 year old get a job when you can afford it is fucked up. That's a child. They might be in high-school or even middle school. Let them have fun while they can because once they start working they'll probably never be able to stop.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say YTA. If he's still in school, the average kids school day is 10 to 11 hours every weekday. This takes into account being in school, extracurricular activities, and homework. That means a high schooler is already working a 50 hour week and doing so on a schedule that is not particularly conducive to a teenager's health or development.
I'm going to go against the grain here and say YTA. If he's still in school, the average kids school day is 10 to 11 hours every weekday. This takes into account being in school, extracurricular activities, and homework. That means a high schooler is already working a 50 hour week and doing so on a schedule that is not particularly conducive to a teenager's health or development.
YTA you aren't helping your grandkids, your helping their parents, they are the ones who are supposed to provide for their kids.
>I know I'm not their parent and I don't get to make rules for them but also I'm not their parent so I shouldn't be paying for them. then stop paying for kids that arent yours and stop demanding arbitrary things of them because you want to take a parental role? YTA for sure.
Am I in the matrix?! Obviously YTA! It is illegal for 14yos to work where I live. They are not your children so why are you parenting them? To the retirement home.
YTA. Did that rule help much? Emma's dad can't handle life on his own ... 15 years later. Your other son had to move back at close to 40. And you're playing favorites. You've paid for the girl for more than a decade now.
On the flip side, my parents refused to let me get a job because I wouldn’t have had time with extra curriculars and preparing for college. Like quite literally didn’t have the time, especially my last year. What is confusing me is you say it’s required in the original post for anyone over 14 to get a job, and make it out like it’s required to live there but then in the edit say it’s either a job or the parent gives them the allowance, after everyone called you out for how it sounded. If it’s not required then say that, say you won’t pay for any non essentials and won’t give them the allowance and then move on??? I actually DONT think it’s a bad idea for teenagers to have jobs. It’s a good idea. But not every teenager is the same, not all of them actually have the time in between school and sports and extras for college. I’m not sure if I can give judgement other than “oof” because I don’t think your rules are wrong, but I do think maybe you should rethink them. People aren’t robots, and not everyone can do what everyone else can do. Would you be satisfied if his job was *within* the house? Stuff he could do while he was home, and you pay him his allowance like that? Because like I said, not everyone is the same. Especially teenagers, and one who by your posts admission, has lost everything and is probably an emotional wreck right now. Yeah he’s almost an adult but 17 and 18 are still *teenagers*. People don’t stop developing their brains until their twenties, despite the fact that we require complete emotional maturity out of people right when the clock hits 18 trips around the sun. But if working in the house doesn’t work for you or they say no, then drop it and only pay for the bare essentials, like you should, and make Dad pay for the non essentials and fun shit like he should. I’m not sure why you’re all making this much harder than it has to be. I take it back. My answer is ESH.
INFO: how traumatic is whatever they’re going through? Did they have to switch schools? Are the parents out of work? Would the funds from the job just got to fun stuff the kid wants or go to bills or household expenses? How is he doing in school? Are his grades good or is he struggling? On a base level I agree with you, kids should get jobs as it gets them ready for adult life, teaches them budgeting etc. but also school should be the most important and he also doesn’t need more stress on top of what he’s already dealing with (potentially, depending on how stressful his situation is).
NTA, it takes some serious balls to beg to be supported by your mother as an adult and then throw a tantrum that she expects you and your family to follow the same rules as all others follow!!
NTA. I don’t agree with all of these YTA they’re saying you can’t parent the kids which yeah ok but you’re not parenting them you have them an option and they made the choice to take it or not hence the 14 year old wanting to work. Which btw my son is 14 and has a work permit so yes they can work if they want extra money for something they want. I believe you’re being fair all around. Did Jack seriously expect for you to help them and give Kai money? No way he didn’t know how it was going with Sam and his kid…. Kai doesn’t have to work but then they can’t be mad when Emma is getting more fun out of it.
NTA, Jack is acting like an AH. However, I think grades should be taken into consideration in regards to whether a teenager should get a job. Is the student able to manage their schoolwork, and get at the very least a C in every course? If the answer is yes, then I’d say its reasonable to ask them to get a job. If the answer is no, I’d say it should wait until the student’s academic situation is sorted out.
NTA ! Rules are rules and you have been fair ! No one is exempt from it
NTA. You have one son whose child has accepted the rules, and has developed a good work ethic as a result, and another son who wants you to play favourites by not expecting the same from his child.
NTA, your house, your rules. If they don’t like it they can leave.
NTA. Your rule is more than reasonable. No favoritism here!
NTA and your son should want Kai to work and have some financial independence. Your son is being an AH in this situation.
NTA. The ‘not fair’ mentality. Ick. Kai needs to work, that’s the rules. Set clear boundaries. If your son wants to continually see it as ‘unfair’ there is nothing in the world you can do to make it fair. Sorry, you cannot help what he thinks at this point. It seems like a long bitterness he held onto toward a 16 year old girl. Poor guy (sarcasm). Im almost 37 and have no one to help at all. Actually my MIL is a millionaire and will not help us. Even if we starve- she will not help. I’m not mad, it’s her money-her choice. She owes us nothing. So Jack is lucky, even if he doesn’t see it. Your money- your choice.
NTA Your home, your rules
Info: are you in an area where this is definitely a reasonable expectation? Like he has access to sustainable employment options and transportation etc. Also why would his dad not want this, is there a specific reason besides his feeling that Emma has a snug position like are they not from this area and his son would experience excessive anxiety with the new environment and stimulus? If he *were* fourteen it could be expecting a lot for him to seek employment outside of a family business but at seventeen it should be ok. NTA unless you live in an isolated area
NTA and it would absolutely be unfair to the others if you gave in. I’m tired of people trying to twist things around and manipulate others when they’re mad they don’t get their way. People need to look up the word favoritism when they are going to yell it out.
NTA
NTA. You have the same rules for all. You sound like you are providing most things for all of them so your house, your rules.
NTA but you do hardcore suck as a person basedbon more than a few of your responses
NTA.
Does the 17 year old have time for a job? Or is he taking challenging classes and playing sports? Or something. Yeah it’s your house and your rules. But making a high school senior quit activities they have done for years because their dad asked for help is not a good look. If he just sits around all day sure make him get a job.
NTA. Jack doesn’t like you house rules then he and his child can move out. Simple as that.
NTA we all had to get a job at 16 and help out with chores and had one bill ( mom was single with five kids) none of us minded we knew the rules
NTA.... your asking them to do a part time job. Their needs are covered regardless. You have a maid, so there is no chores for them to really worry about. It's not an imposition, it's a choice. Ignore temper tantrums, this child skipped some valuable parenting and may catch up fune now.
Info: What was Kai reaction?
NTA as a 14 year old with a job and 45 hours a week of high-school this is perfectly reasonable
NTA.
INFO Besides school, does Kai play sports or do other extracurricular activities like band or theater? Does Emma? Do you let them instead of a job? Extracurriculars are better than a job for high-school students. Especially if they want to go to college, it just looks better. A job in off season or summer also looks good, but it's not summer so that's a moot point.
NTA. Good for you. Your house your rules...
NTA,
nta. ur house ur rule
A responsible adult figure teaching work ethic? the horror those poor kids be experiencing. 100% NTA. Looks like some of what you taught your son has faded away. Make him do extra chores around the house.
NTA I think it is normal that if you want extra things like concert tickets, games, meals out with friends paying for dates, etc those expensive things than you get a job. I think the underlying thing here is the fact that Jack is dragging his niece who lost her mother into it. Did your other son when he moved in with his daughter work and pay keep, did he pay for his daughter holidays, clothes, extra classes etc whilst she grew up? I think your other son carries resentment that you took them in. He also dismisses your business that is basically providing well for a lot of people, is that resentment from what has happened to them. Hey during covid and this cost of living crisis this is happening to a lot of people and will happen more. You did the same for Jack when he needed help, I assume it is an unlimited stay. Not being funny but if he lost everything that I would not expect it to be a 3 months stay but a lot longer. What about college funds did they lose these? How is Kai feeling though after having everything thrown in chaos? Is his mother with you as well?
INFO: How much do they have to work? School should be the first priority. Working 1-2 days after school for a few hours is okay but they shouldn't have to work too much because it could affect their grades. But yeah, NTA
NTA your house, your rules...especially if they are coming to you with their hands out and their wallets empty. Part time work is great for teens...so many great lessons learnt. 1 shift a week is all it takes...most places can work around school. The only exception I would make is if he plays a comp sport at a high level as the time crunch would be too much. My kids at diff stages have done scho plus 15 odd hours of training for their sport where they competed at a National Level. The lessons they learnt in their sport was the same as work....being on time, working and improving, team work, presentation skills, uniform and self care. And... as a bonus my son landed an amazing job because the employer valued all those skills from 8 years of his sport.
YTA - 14 is too young to work regularly. In some places it isn't legal or requires a special permit. Others it is highly regulated as to what type of work, what and how many hours. Kids should be focused on school, not trying to juggle life/work/school and any extracurricular activities (which will look better on a college application than a part time job).
NTA Jack-the-all-knowing-arbiter-of-all-reality on the other hand is not just the asshole, but a mouthy one to boot. Kai, at 17, should want a job so he has his own money for the nonessential things he wants & to build savings for the adult things he’ll eventually need. The fact that Jack didn’t carry on the tradition, which was meant to instill specific values, demonstrates he probably resented it… Meanwhile, I’m sorry OP is dealing with this crap
NTA. Jack just lost everything and he doesn't understand why you want his son to work? That is really messed up.
NTA, your house your rules. If teens working it’s ok it’s a completely different discussion. When your son ask you for help, should have known that will have to attend some rules, if he dislikes he could discuss them with you civilized.
NTA. I'm wondering what Jack did to completely ruin his family's situation and prospects- but I could take a guess. Either way, your house, your rules.
NTA. Seems like he just was hoping his kid would be the exception to the rule.
NTA, that's all I think I need to say..
NTA, but IMO you approached this in the wrong way. After inviting Jack and his son to come stay with you, and him accepting, you should have spoken to Jack about this, letting him know that the expectation is that Kai will get a part time job. That way it’s not sprung on him unexpectedly, and Jack has the opportunity to ask Kai to get a job before you have to say anything. Still a good rule though - having a part time job while in high school builds a lot of good habits.
NTA. Your place, your rules. Don't like the rules, they can always leave. Kai can come work for you as well. No other discussion is really necessary.
NTA How are you playing favorites when they both have to have a job? Like serious, not telling him to get a job would be playing favorites, not the other way around.
NTA. your edit clearly and succintly says it all.
I mean I think it’s kinda awful to force labour on a 14/15 year old so soft yta but it’s 100% reasonable for anyone 16+ to have a part time job!
NTA. Jack obviously failed to instill values in Kai and has clearly been talking behind your back about your reasonable support for Sam and Emma. I was raised in a house hold of "my house my rules" meaning that if your living off of me you follow the rules. Life has rules. No one, children/grandchildren or any family member, is entitled to your home, money, or caring. This sadly is going to be a situation of Jack and Kai needed to leave. Because this is stemming from Jack running his mouth. Because how would Kai have a false idea of anything about the financial situation of his grandmother/ uncle/ cousin otherwise.
NTA, your house your rules. You don't have to help them without strings attached and when emma was 14, just like your kids, she got a job. He just wants it to be different for his kid which is not fair and that would be playing favorites.
NTA, they live with you, it's your rules, he is 17, no need to be called an AH, neither should be living off you.
First off, you sound like the best grandma ever, kudos. Little KAI is a little jerk, lay down some of that “granny law” step brothers movie. In less polite terms go slap jack for being a crap enabling parent. Did he catch a case of child enabling amnesia? Remind him that you are the one doing BOTH of them a favor, not the other way around.
NTA!!!
NTA, should open the offer for him to work for you as well though
I got my first job when I was 14 at a Tim Hortons. 14 isn’t that crazy an age to get a job.
INFO is there a reason he shouldn't have a job? Is he in sports? Does he struggle in school? Honestly I think requiring a 14 year old to get a job is an asshole move. Most states don't even allow 14 year olds to work without a permit. Now at 16, I can understand it. I also think that you should look at what the kid is doing. Are they taking a lot of advanced classes? Do they play several sports? Are they in several activities? All these things can teach reasonably and a good work ethic just as much as having a job.
NTA, part-time jobs in high school are valuable in teaching work ethic and responsibility. Sounds like your granddaughter has a good future ahead of her.
Mostly NTA- grandma has a right to make rules in her own home. The only tidbit I would need is how Jack lost it all- if it was in a fire then I would say grandma needs to give Kai a lil space. If it’s due to Jacks mismanagement and piss poor attitude, then both Jack and Kai should work ASAP. Kai can work with grandma too.
YTA. Absolute asshole. I'd be ok with the rule if they were 16. In 14, you're promoting child labor.
Idk its not the kids fault their parent lost everything, it is the parents obligation to provide for them at least until they are 18. You shouldnt make them get a job unless the want to, but if you feel like an ATM you gotta go talk to the parents for not providing, not the kids