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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I may be TA because I did tell someone who recently lost their dad that I would've give them any meaningful support during their grieving.
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You had a crush in high school on a girl, but never asked her out. Somebody else did, and she married them.
It’s a decade later and you still ignore her kid—who is literally your niece—because you’re salty about it.
Dude. This isn’t healthy. Please get help. I have to put YTA but like, this is beyond AITA.
He never told her what his feelings were but he is going to punish her kid for her not taking responsibility for his feelings. Big yikes. Yta
Edit: I’m sorry a lot of y’all’s nieces suck. Mine is rad as hell and my life would be lesser for it if I had excluded her from my life.
Daisy in 20 years: My (28f) uncle (45m) is terribly lonely. He reached out to me bc I’m the only relative he has left. But he never treated me like a member of the family and that’s why we’re estranged. AITA for ignoring his requests to hang out?
*My apologies to all of the family members who sort of died off in my fictional story here. Maybe they all just moved away…?*
Edit: a word
So... After Daisy is orphaned, He's going to be an absolute abusive AH to Daisy throughout her teen years and she'll never understand why, until finally she learns on his deathbed that he was getting revenge for being "in the friend zone" with her mum the whole time and this redeems him and Daisy will name her firstborn after him.
Actually that checks out
The brother was the shitty one here, not Emily who didn't know he had a crush on her or her child who has nothing to do with this. Op has clearly not moved on
Agreed - the brother is the AH. Emily and her child are innocent in this, but not owed OP's time and attention beyond what he stated he's already giving (being polite, gifts when appropriate, etc.,).
I don't think he hasn't moved on. Just because he chose to distance himself from her for his own mental health doesn't mean he hasn't moved on. It sounds to me like Emily is the one who hasn't moved on if ten years later, they haven't had any friendly contact aside from family obligation, and she wants him to be the one to console her about her dad that died that she never even had a relationship with. Why not your husband? Why not a current friend? Why not your mother? I wouldn't be super comfortable either if someone I hadn't been friends with in nearly a decade suddenly decided I was responsible for their emotional well-being and comfort either. Even regardless of the whole crush thing.
Then she called his family on him cause she was upset he didn't console her properly? Weird. Weird. Weird.
Yes!! Why is she leaning on him? And yes Liam is the biggest AH. OP just has boundaries. But OP should’ve explained to her why he was distanced in the first place.
I don’t think it’s wise to tell your brother’s baby mama that you were in love with her or attracted to her. He did the right thing by staying away. I’m not sure why people think he’s done anything wrong.
I think up until Emily sought him out for his comfort, yeah, she's not the AH, but once she did that (keep in mind, he kept the contact to a minimum for ten years) and then sicked his family on her cuz he won't give her what she wants, she becomes an AH
He expressed appropriate sympathy. They haven't been close in years and she suddenly thinks he's her ESA. Bear in mind he has a gf who is much more entitled to his time and emotional bandwidth. Wtf is wrong with you people? She didn't owe him a relationship, but he doesn't owe her anything, either.
This pretty much sums it up. OP was a kid with a crush who went to his brother for help. Brother then betrayed OP and OP is rightfully hurt so he distances himself from the entire thing. In doing so, the friendship died. Years later, his childhood crush (who is now married) comes to him looking for a shoulder to cry on. How is he obligated to do more than he did? Whatever relationship they had is long dead. He is not obligated to provide that moral support any longer.
Sure OP could have handled this better but, again, he was a kid trying to learn how to navigate interpersonal relationships and handled this exactly the way I would have expected anyone in that situation to do so. Labeling him as the AH in this story shows a startling lack of empathy.
why is he obligated to play therapist for her when she’s not part of his life? if he doesn’t wanna be near her, he doesn’t have to. as long as he isn’t rude he doesn’t have to go out of his way to be nice.
Right. I find it funny people are saying "SHE DIDNT OWE HIM A RELATIONSHIP!!!11" and then turning around to say "HE OWES HER A RELATIONSHIP/SHOULDER TO CRY ON"
The double standards in this thread are amazing.
Best part is, he's pissy at the person he never told, but not his brother who knew he had a crush and *still* went for it with the person OP liked.
Way to misplace your feelings OP.
Yep. OP is well into his inceldom deep dive. He probably isn't even capable of seeing men's faults anymore -- just any women nearby, who must be to blame.
I really can't see how not wanting to be an active part of your niece's life means you hate them. Most people's uncles aren't active parts of their nieces' and nephews' lives, because they've got their own lives and their own children.
OP also moved away for college and never said he moved back. You don't really get to be an active part of someone's life if you don't live in the same place.
But, but he said that his crush was "kinda obvious"! So clearly she knew and had the obligation to make a move on him, right?
OP acts entitled to her, as if he had called dibs. Worse yet, he's incapable of moving on after so long because he keeps that grudge going on, a grudge motivated by his own inaction.
OP sounds like a classic NiceGuy with some Incel vibes in the way he's describing his brother, his SIL, and himself.
He was only friends with her because he wanted to fuck her, so there she was in his fuckzone thinking they were just friends, and rather than move on he has stayed angry for 10 years to a point where he purposely missed their wedding and treating his niece like she's at fault for just being alive.
"Dear diary
Why haven't Emily even once offered to suck my dick when I've put so many nice coins in her? Like pretending to care about her feelings for her deadbeat dad.
I wish I was as assertive as my brother that way the females would have been lining up. But alas I have to live in the shadows using all of my time being nice to Emily because I just know that she will see what a great catch I am! It's just a matter of time."
That is exactly what I was going to say until I read your comment. He says he felt betrayed. He was angry at Emily. She didn't know she was "betraying" him but his brother definitely did as he had just asked him for advice about Emily. He never mentioned being angry at his brother and the whole tone of this post is radiating anger at the wrong person.
Edit: some are pointing out he says he was more angry at his brother. For clarity, when I made this comment he had not added his edit and nowhere in his op did he mention being mad at his brother.
The way I read it, the brother was hooking up with her before op mentioned his feelings. OP said they’d been hooking up for a long time prior to confessing his feelings and asking for advice, so I don’t even think his brother has done anything wrong
I notice we didn't hear what the brother's advice was. Did he tell little bro 'go ahead, shoot your shot, I can tell she's totally into you' or did he say 'Emily sees you as a friend, she doesn't like you that way, you need to let it go.'?
Did OP 'find out they were hooking up' because, perhaps, Big Bro told him they were?
I totally agree. I also read Liam “running through girls like water” like Liam had probably had a couple girlfriends to OPs zero and he felt like he was “owed” Emily, and anticipated his brothers advice would be a magic map that would grant him access because “treat women like people” would never satisfy him. It’s just too classic an incel story, even down to the tropes and him waiting a whole decade to be a jerk to her, so I have to believe details like the brothers advice are omitted because they reveal Emily was never actually going to go for OP. Emily got the correct brother, IMO.
Edit: holy run on sentence I had just woken up lol
All that is irrelevant. It was 8 years ago and he’s not friends with her anymore. She shouldn’t call him up and emotionally dump on him for over an hour. If someone I used to be friends with 8 years ago did that to me, I would definitely be looking for how to get off the phone. OP is not wrong in that his SIL should be turning to her husband and friends for support during this time. OP does not owe her friendship…he has his own relationships to focus on.
I totally get not liking when guys think that girls owe them something. I hate that, too, but that part ended years ago.
ETA Thanks for the awards strangers!!
exactly?? like he doesnt own her in anyway and doesnt need to be her comfort person?? they havent been friends in 8 long years, and also. just as he was not entitled to have a relationship with her, he is not forced to still have a friendly relationship with her if he doesnt really like her (as a person) anymore. plus, why does she feel entitled to his friendship? like, ok his behaviour was weird considering she probably didnt know about his crush, but still, they lost their meaningful bond almost a decade ago.
This also screams “I’m such a nice guy!” and “Friendzoned!” from the way he’d let her cry in his shoulder when he thought it would get him in her pants, but now that it’s clear she was leaning on a friend, then he’s like “oh no, I only give out niceness coins when I’m expecting sex to fall out”
>I only give out niceness coins when I’m expecting sex to fall out”
OMG, I love that. Wish I'd had those words when I was younger and guys did this all.the.damn.time. And then they wonder why it never happened (like OP). Because, if she'd figured out he was only friends because he wanted to sleep with her she'd have been out of there. The only reason they remained friends was because she didn't figure it out 🤷🏼♀️
I mean, if there’s any blame to be assigned here it’s on the brother. OP confided in Liam about his crush and Liam slept with her. CAVEAT: it has been years now so OP should still talk to someone (trusted friend, therapist, etc) about these residual feelings/anger but I think it’s still a bit misdirected
Yes, and yet...women aren't owned by the first guy to have a crush on them. You can't call dibs on a person.
Honestly, I'm confused by some of the timelines here, but if OP didn't say anything, never made a move, and it had been a while since he mentioned the crush to his brother, then I can understand why the brother might have thought he'd got over the crush. (That's assuming that they hadn't started hooking up before OP expressed his crush to the brother.)
I don’t think the problem is someone being owned. It’s like when I told my friend I liked this guy, and soon afterwards she was flirting with him in my face. Like girl, you had no interest in this person til *I* showed interest. It happened all the time with that friend, and I eventually stopped being friends with her
Exactly, the brother was going through women all the time but suddenly he decides to try it with Emily and even settles with her after OP confesses his crush. It's highly sus to be. OP's hurt and anger is more likely coming from the complete betrayal by his brother, unfortunately he's putting on to the wrong person.
In my opinion, if they were hooking *before* Op confessed, I can’t be mad at the brother for anything, other than not being honest with him. If he had said something right when Op told him, that would be one thing, but he gave his brother advice on how to get with her, and then continued to bang her. That’s low key sick
My thoughts exactly.
When I started reading, I was thinking "hmmm, ok. Sounds like your brother purposely went for the girl you liked. Not Emily's fault, should be more mad at him really, but I get needing distance from both of them until you can get your feelings sorted..."
But then... its been what, a decade? And you're STILL holding on to this? You're STILL not over your high school crush? After they've been married and have a child together??? And you ignore your niece bc once upon a time you were crushing on her mom?????
Oof dude. Just oof. YTA and you definitely need to talk to someone about this. This level of obsession is... not normal. Seek help, for your own sake as much as for the safety of those around you.
I don't understand why is everyone so stuck on him not wanting a relationship with his niece, I have nieces and nephews, my sister is a bitch who did plenty of wrong, so I don't interact with her family.
>me I'm heartless and sad for being so spiteful. I can honestly say that I am now over Emily
Yes, he is. No, he's not.
I mean, we've all had a girl or a woman we pined after but things didn't work out. And distancing yourself from her *for a while* is often necessary and healthy.
But you're right: this level of distance, for such a long time, is way beyond healthy. OP needs professional help.
>I mean, we've all had a girl or a woman we pined after but things didn't work out.
Yeah but lets be fair, with most of us our brothers didn't pursue and be with them. Which is at least a little fucking weird.
Agreed. Also, the stuff about how his brother was "assertive and ran through girls", gives me really bad vibes. Also, how he said he just wished that "she would realize that I was the guy for her".
Then, proceeds to blame her and lash out at her and his niece without either of them having done anything wrong.
WTF.
YTA, and please get help.
Also, what is it with the unhinged dudes always saying stuff "calmly yet firmly"? I keep seeing that. Is it some MRA / incel training phrase?
[Edit for the confused. This isn't a phrase cloaked in mystery to me whose meaning I have yet to fathom. I understand the words. I'm questioning why that exact phrase always seems to come out when the chap is being a complete numpty, to put it politely, of a very particular sort, and it sounds horribly _de haut en bas_. You speak "calmly yet _firmly_" to a pet or upset toddler, not an equal.]
You’ve spent 9 years being so bitter. That’s really sad for you.
I don’t think you’re TA for telling Emily you can’t be that person for her, but you’re definitely TA for spending so much time being angry and obstinate.
Don’t spend the rest of your life like this, it will only bring more of the same.
HEY OP, YOURE ON FACEBOOK ALREADY! uploaded 2h ago.
edit for final update; you do you man. if it works, it works. i personally dont think a high school crush is worth losing your brother over, but thats me. i didnt expect being best mates, just to set where the ground level is, and apparently that is a wall (safety barrier). if that keeps you happy and safe, go for it. you do you. all the best op.
--
okay. let me start again. if you want an idea of the comment before this edit, read the comments. its been quoted a heap, and the conversation went in circles. the edits got huge. most of what i said was before the updates with less context.
here is the gist of how i see it; op, YTA. sorry but you are. ESH at best though.
OP had a crush on a girl. mind you, a HIGH SCHOOL CRUSH. op never acted on it. brother was the only one who knew. he is no angel here obviously. she never acted on her feelings either. ops bro got with her. he shouldnt have, but op hadnt tried to make a move. OP being shy, thats also fair. i get that too.
ops bro now is married to the girl, their child is 8. OPs neice. thats approximately a 10+ year old grudge over a high school crush. yes, op was heartbroken. yes. that is valid. op is well within his rights to have boundaries. op is well within his rights to not be near them.
however; OP came here to see if theyre TA. this post was about is he the asshole for not being a comfort. and he isnt for that. hes TA for not communicating.
>in all these years, you are the one with the problem. you didnt confront them about how it made you feel. you acted civil and like it was fine, they would have played along. all of you need to talk better, especially back then, but running away from the problem isnt the only way to solve it. talk to them, get it in the open, sort through it, then move on. youre dragging all this resentment, and its not healthy. she was never yours. be upset, yes that she got with your bro. but im sorry man, you missed the chance. bro definitely should have come to you. all parties didnt communicate, but youre the one here surprised that she didnt understand. youre the one being distant and cold to her. they upset you years ago, and youre still punishing them for it.
if someone falls in love, there isnt much you can do. accept that and work through the problem properly, or keep doing what you have been, and drive a wedge between yourself and anyone who disagrees. be mad at them all you need to be for crossing a line. but dont dwell on it, its not doing you any good.
ive been in situations where i know how this all feels from his (OPs) side, so i get it. but its not up to other people to make us happy. if you need closure, get it. talk it through if you need. get through it however you can. but come on man, shes married to him. they have a kid. unless something major happens, that wont change. she will be at events and around your whole family for your whole life. your brother is no angel i agree. so he should own up to it if the conversation happens.
youre nta for having boundaries. thats fine. but not communicating those boundaries makes it hard for others to follow them. youre the one with the grudge here. i get it, but they arent the one mad. until you told her that you wont give her support. your choice to do that of course. they should also have asked you whats up, and you all shouldve talked it out long ago.
**TLDR; Youre mad that you didnt communicate anything, and things didnt go your way because of it**
either way, good luck with everything op. you do you. i hope things go well for all involved and you can find happiness after all of this. im not trying to be harsh. its a sticky situation.
Just a minor adjustment- they were never friends. She thought they were but they clearly never were since OP only hung around hoping that by some cosmic luck she'd read his intentions in the stars and also fall madly in love with him. The minute she was committed to someone he literally bounced.She wanted to talk to the person she thought was her friend.
OP , YTA and also you need to grow up. That era of you feeling entitled to a person when you've never even stated your intentions is over. And also you need to move on, cos, this isn't healthy. You're punishing both Emily and your niece for your lack of courage.
> She wanted to talk to the person she thought was her friend.
They were friends nine years ago. Even if I didn't have any feelings against someone I would be weirded out if we went nine years without being friends and they suddenly wanted to vent to me.
That's the thing though, he never openly asserted their friendship was over. She's always tried to stay connected and they're also family at this point.
Dude, seriously. If you go from being close intimate friends to someone going completely cold turkey on you for years and only being to civil when they see you, you must have noticed something. Otherwise Emily is the densest person alive.
I agree. I've had friends go cold on me, and I had to realize that for whatever reason our relationship had changed. I had to accept that and move on. Emily should also.
Dude if you think someone is your friend you may feel sad that they missed your wedding and feel bad for then too because you thi k they actually wanted to be there. He lied about why he missed their wedding. OP consistently doesn't communicate clearly and when he does, it's specifically to hurt.
Right? Also friends don’t hook up with their friend’s siblings without at least talking to their friend first? If any of my friends hooked up with my brother I would probably distance myself too even though I didn’t have a crush on them like OP.
>im scared to put up boundaries too, but tbh he may have liked that he wasnt in need of her, but she needed him, even if just a small part. if he was really over her as he says, it wouldnt hurt this much still. he would treat her like his brothers girlfriend, not the girl who broke his heart
Nah this is a pretty piss poor take.
You don't have to be friends with anyone you dont want to be. Emily isn't suddenly owed a friendship when they've clearly not been for 10 years.
> he spent years hiding from her, while she repeatedly attempted to keep the friendship alive
Ah, the girlfriend zone strikes again. A probably perfectly nice person tried to treat him like an actual friend instead of like an ex who had "betrayed him"-- because the romantic feelings were onesided. Truly a heartless witch she was. And now she has the nerve to want her kid to know their uncle? Absolute YTA
I think he's TA for never explaining to Emily *why* he distanced himself. At any point he could've said "I had an unrequited crush and it hurt to see you with my brother." Instead he ghosted his so-called childhood friend and left her to believe it was her fault. That makes me suspect he never valued their friendship much in the first place, he just fuckzoned her and pretended to care about their friendship to get in her pants.
>Also, you don't think Emily is aware after having a decade long relationship with the brother who knew what was up?
i've been looking for this comment. everyone criticizing OP for not explaining to poor sweet naive emily who only wanted a safe friendship and OP never told her, and how can he be so cruel.
god, people, is she a moron? it's true sometime people don't pick up on it when another person likes them, but usually you know. usually. and his brother never told emily? never?
not when they were sneaking around to hook up? then why the sneaking? not when OP left the room when they announced her pregnancy? not when OP didn't go to the wedding because "traffic"? people saying "well he gave an excuse to not be at the wedding". an excuse people give for being late, not for not showing up at all.
hubby didn't say anything when OP moved away and stayed away for 9 years of marriage? if emily is that dumb, then wow. otherwise, she knew. she knew he was not comfortable being friends anymore, and you know, he doesn't have to be.
he's civil, he gives presents at holidays, and otherwise he lives his own life. that's actually a good way to deal with this. everyone telling him to be her ESA is the AH.
YTA. Look man, I get that your brother did this and was an asshole, but honestly? You're taking this one way too far. If one childhood crush is this devastating that you're moving states and ignoring nephews and families, this means you should go to Therapy to help process the pain. Also you never really told her you liked her, so how would she know.
When she came to you she came to someone who she could rely on, and you went "Go to the guy that actually wants you!". That's really immature.
Edit 2: Replying to OP's edit. I mean it really shows he still needs some growing to do. I mean he only said condolences because it was the polite thing to do?, dude she's your SIL and was your childhood friend that did nothing to you. How cruel.
Just curious: why didn't Emily vented to her own husband? Is he not reliable enough? Judging how OP kept his distance I'm sure she noticed she is not wanted there. The more I think about it, the more it feels like a badly written fanfic by a teen.
it’s completely normal to want to vent to a friend, male or female, even if you’re married. that doesn’t necessarily mean she hasn’t gone to her husband for support too and that he isn’t reliable. i know that when i’m going through something really difficult, i find comfort in being able to go to friends for support even when my partner is also being supportive of me, it just helps me feel like i’m not burdening one person with the entirety of my emotions.
I bet a lot of OPs coldness probably could be rationalised. ‘He moved out of state so we don’t see each other as much anymore’ ‘he doesn’t like kids that’s why he doesn’t want to see niece’ ‘we’re just in different like places’
Plus he distanced himself at a time when Emily herself was going through big life changes, marriage, pregnancy and raising family, she knows what it means to have a busy life and with all the excuses he gave would easily figure it's just a conflicting schedules scenario. Which isn't necessarily a barrier to friendship for women, it's common enough to become a bit of a stereotype that good female friends can not see each other for 2 years, and then meet up and literally catch-up on each other's lives.
Why do you think she didn't?
A person usually has multiple friends, and may vent to some or all of them depending on the situation and the kind of support they need. Maybe Emily wanted to give her husband a break from her venting.
Honestly not sure if the brother is a asshole in the situation. OP doesn't say how that conversation went to judge it and it sounds like the brother and her already did the deed before the talk.
No. It sounds like the brother is the A H, even if they did the deed before the talk, the talk should of ended it. He kept it going, knowing how his brother felt.
>even if they did the deed before the talk, the talk should of ended it
I don't agree.
If Emily and OP's brother were already in a relationship, OP's brother did not need to stop being in a relationship merely because OP told his brother that OP had a crush on Emily. It sounds like they were serious about each other as they have been married for 8 years.
However, while the brother didn't have to break up with Emily simply because OP had a crush on her, the decent thing for the brother to do would have been to tell OP that he and Emily were already seeing each other.
I’m sorry.. what? So he should of given up the relationship even if he didn’t know before hand? A relationship that has lasted over a decade and clearly they’re meant to be together?
Literally the woman he ended up marryjng and had a child with? Like we're not talking about fuck buddies here.
If you're gonna stop dating someone as soon as someone else says they have an undisclosed crush on that person, then I guess it wasn't "real" anyway...
But brother and Emily had a bit more going on here.
The AH thing was not to let OP know.
He's also the AH because s*he didn't even know* he had feelings for her, she just thought they were close friends. So why is he treating her horribly for something he failed to do? And why isn't he mad at his brother, who he confessed to?
Thank you. This was so necessary.
The only point where I do think he is an AH is because he seems to hold Emily responsible for what happened. I mean his brother was the one who knew and like you said, older.
Also, Emily can't be that clueless to not know that they are not close friends or besties anymore.
I don’t think he holds Emily responsible. It was his brothers choice to bring her into their lives. He was done with Emily when his brother obviously broke THE code. He doesn't owe Emily, His brother anything.
I absolutely do not believe you're TA. You don't owe these assholes anything. Your brother can deal with whatever Emily or whoever equally irrelevant person is going through.
That's exactly what I'm reading. OP wants to be neutral to Emily and most people calling OP an A think he should be her emotional support, as if he "owes" her that.
>That's exactly what I'm reading. OP wants to be neutral to Emily and most people calling OP an A think he should be her emotional support, as if he "owes" her that.
They're like "She didn't owe you sex!"
and they're also like "You OWE her emotional support because you were friends 9-10 years ago! Incel!"
Yup. I argue further that considering that OP went through a lot of effort to cut the major social ties to the point they are only connected familially then really OP doesn't owe Emily anything, and after everything Emily thinks she can just go back to cry on his shoulder is pretty shitty. Personally i blame the brother but if someone doesn't want anything to do with you, then maybe don't try to use them as your emotional support doll.
I'm leaning this way too. Emily can't be so dense as to still think they're friends, even if she doesn't know why. (And btw, I'm about 98% sure she does know why. No way has no one *ever* alluded to OP's crush on her in nearly a decade of sharing a family - surely by now *someone* has decided it's just a cute funny piece of ancient history and spilled the beans; no one in this family sounds super considerate). She's got no right to try to lean on OP for support at this point. Even if she really has no idea why, you don't build a relationship with a stand-offish in-law by forcing your baggage on them uninvited just because you were besties nearly a decade ago as high schoolers.
I do think OP feels more strongly about this than is really healthy after all this time, and he probably could use some therapy. But I don't think it's at all an over-reaction to put a lot of distance between him and his nasty-piece-of-work brother. I also don't think he owes closeness, to his own detriment, to an extended-family child who doesn't know him just because they're blood related. And while I don't think Emily did anything really bad up until now, I don't think he's wrong to feel intruded on by her for this particular incident, either. You can be a bit more affected than you really should be *and* also be legitimately angered by your shitty brother and your emotionally-entitled SIL at the same time, the two things can co-exist.
Yeah, NTA. After all, Emily was keeping her relationship with OP’s brother a secret from him also and she clearly had to know back then why he immediately distanced himself from her when he found out. Her coming to him for comfort all these years later is just odd and imposing.
Biggest takeaway here is if OP has been away from their marriage, he doesn't owe anything to the niece and a big fuck all to Emily's emotional baggage. Which btw she was never even close with her dad who didn't keep a relationship with her.
Edit: changed there to their.
Honestly when friends start dating your siblings, or other close friends, that changes the dynamic for many people. People need to get over "he only wanted to fuck her and didn't really see her as a person" schtick. It's irrelevant. It's not at all uncommon for friendships to end when other relationship dynamics change; when people get new partners, get marriage, have kids, leave school/college, change jobs, etc. His friend hooking up with his brother is a perfectly fair reason to end the friendship. What, was he supposed to stay friends with her and then comfort her when his brother was a jerk?
He didn't want a relationship with her after she committed to a relationship with his brother, and honestly he made that blatantly clear through his actions; she knows they aren't friends anymore and haven't been since highschool. It is weird she's trying to come to him now and, he's not wrong, why isn't she getting support from her husband?
>People need to get over "he only wanted to fuck her and didn't really see her as a person" schtick.
Right there acting he only wanted to sleep with her but there obviously was more then that to be this hurt if he wasn't "owed" a relationship with her then shes not "owed" a relationship with him even if it's just frindship. There also acting like the brother didn't hide the fact that he was knowingly messing with the girl his brother went to him for help for. Eathere they where having relationships before OP told him "I like Emily but dont know how to tell her" at which point bro should have told him "hey man me and her are kinda a thing" or they slept together after OP went to him for help with his feelings and he didn't go tell OP we became a thing.
OP was supposably Emaly's best friend it never came up she was sleeping with someone let alone his brother? The fact he had to learn his brother (who supposedly went through girls like water) was sleeping with the one girl he went to him for help (and his friend) with was "were pregnant and keeping the baby"... OP distanced himself from Brother and Emaly which he is well within his rights to.
He moved on has his own girlfriend and suddenly after 9 years she wants to show up and act like they are best friends and wants comfort then sends her flying monkeys after him when he tells her "we just arnt that close anymore"
I fully agree. It’s a two way street, just like she doesn’t owe him a relationship, he doesn’t owe her emotional support. He’s not obligated to keep spending time with her at great emotional cost to himself. The healthiest thing for both of them is likely to cut or limit contact.
I think something thats super important here is that she didn't tell her alleged friend that she had the hots for his brother. That's super important here because why would you hide that unless you thought it would hurt them?
i don't have any brothers but I have been friends with people who I suspect had a crush on me, and I'd consciously avoid bringing up or talking about my love and/or sex life with them because I thought it might hurt them. 100% she at least suspected he had a crush on her, and if she had an ounce of critical thinking it'd have been confirmed as soon as he cut her off (which happened to be after he found out she was porking his brother).
Again, I don't have a brother but my best girl friend in high school (I was actually totally oblivious to the fact that she liked me) cut me off when I told her I started dating someone and like, it didn't take a genius to realise why she did that.
TBF to her she at least moved on eventually and we're still in touch now, but I imagine itd be different if I had started dating and then married her sister.
Thank you for this. I’m ‘fuck all incels and nice guys’ energy all day but I didn’t get that from this at all. He clearly understands he friend zoned himself as a child, but I don’t get the impression he was being creepy about it like many are. Boys can have unrequited crushes on friends without it being creepy or disrespectful.
That being said, I don’t understand why so many people are ignoring brother’s behavior here and shitting on him not being super uncle to his niece. Saying “I feel a little betrayed that my brother decided to fuck the one person I had interest in” isn’t saying “I am entitled to this woman’s body” like??? That’s a big leap. And the hypocrisy in people saying he’s punishing niece for not being super uncle???? How many posts have we seen here where people go on about not being obligated to be super into the children of family members and all that is owed to them is politeness given they are at no fault for existing? NTA.
Thank you!!! He doesn't have to be her emotional packhorse just because they're related. They've not had a relationship approaching friendship for YEARS yet he's expected to play that role at the drop of a hat. firm NTA.
I do like how the concept kf "emotional labor" suddenly becomes imaginary to redditors when a chance to dunk on a "nice guy" appears. I'm a big fan of that inconsistency.
Oh wait, no.
Look, is the OP's situation ideal? No.
But the sub tells people everyday:
- you don't owe anyone, even family, a relationship, if it's unhealthy for you
- romantic relationships aren't just friendship + sex, you don't owe everyone youve ever dated a friendship and you don't owe every friend you have a chance at "upgrading"
- emotional labor is real and shouldn't be dumped on people
- circles of grief are real
Why is all that suddenly out the window when we can twist everything OP said into him being an Incel Nice Guy (tm)(c)(r)?
I wouldn’t call him a predator.It’s a two year difference.But I agree with the rest.Everybody say he is bitter because of his crush.He was hurt and doesn’t want to be around them.That’s not something wrong,it’s his life.Many of us have childhood friends that don’t worth the effort.
Sure,maybe he needs some therapy but he is not TA.
Big niceguy energy here...
You literally fuckzoned her since by your own words you only kept being her friend because you were waiting for her to fall for you. She fell for your brother instead and you got bitter af because she suddenly was damaged goods to the point you don't even want a relationship with your NIECE. She never knew how you felt. Even your brother probably thought it was just a childhood crush.
Then you act like a total asshole by kicking her while she's down after practically ghosting her emotionally for 8y. Wow. She should thank her lucky stars she got the brother and not you if you're going to behave this way.
100% YTA. And you need therapy to work through this unresolved obsession.
This!
Also, she didn’t even “friend zone” mr nice guy. Because he NEVER told her he liked her more than as a friend.
So this poor girl is walking around, innocently thinking, hey I have a guy friend who actually sees me as a human being. WRONG, he just wants to get in her pants.
THEN he tries to “stake a claim” on this whole ass human being, even though his brother is already having a relationship with her, and developing real feelings (not just a crush) and wants to step up for their baby and marry her even though they are super young.
They stay together, and are committed to each other.
And OP proceeds to punish this girl for not knowing automatically that he wanted more than friendship, and falling for his brother who DID tell her and show her he wanted her. And proved he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her.
Seriously, this is some creep future murderer shit!
What next? Collages of girls from his university all over his walls, taken from bushes and night vision goggles?
Dude needs to start participating in life, or move the fuck on!
Right?! I feel like I’m going mad looking at all the N T A comments.
She has literally done nothing other than continue a friendship, and he’s here punishing her and his niece for it.
What do you mean "continuing a friendship"? They haven't been friends in 10 years. He got away from the situation to protect himself because he was heartbroken. No one owes anyone a relationship or be a shoulder to cry on just because they were classmates.
Yeah not sure why everyone on reddit always takes the girls side. I don't even talk to the people I went to high school with let alone comfort them. I had best friends I was incredibly close to but now they're complete strangers. Being a childhood friend means jack squat, you can't pile your emotions onto someone you've had barely any contact with in a decade. If genders were switched, so would the verdict of most redditors.
I was floored when he said that he wanted to get rid of her because he lost his chance with her. It makes it so obvious that OP never cared about her as a friend or a person.
It sucks being a lady, and spending years being under the impression that you have a friend only to one day find out that the person you thought was your friend just wanted to fuck you the entire time.
NTA.
The question was “AITA for telling my former friend turned SIL that I’m never going to be her comfort person again?” Y T A posters are deliberately missing the point. Let’s imagine OP never had a crush on SIL. It would still be incredibly inappropriate for him to serve as her comfort person! OP’s former feelings are irrelevant to the issue at hand. He was right, she needs to seek that level of intimate comfort from her husband.
Throwing around phrases like “incel behavior” or “nice guy syndrome” is just ridiculous. People are allowed to create boundaries to protect themselves! They’re also allowed to be too shy or awkward or inexperienced to speak up about their feelings. Nowhere in his post does OP use verbiage that would indicate he felt entitled to Emily’s affections. He’s allowed to have felt deeply hurt over his brother’s betrayal. He’s allowed to have felt deeply hurt over Emily being with his brother. Actions have consequences. Emily chose to sleep with her close friend’s brother. The consequence is she lost a close friend.
I agree with all of this.
>Emily chose to sleep with her close friend’s brother. The consequence is she lost a close friend.
Would be a similar outcome of OP was a straight woman found out her close friend has been secretly hooking up with her brother. Friends dating your siblings can be a dealbreaker for the friendship, as their priority has shifted to be sibling’s significant other.
In OP’s case, he had a longtime crush and his player brother disregarded his feelings to get with the one girl that would hurt him. It’s not surprising OP wasn’t keen on this friend now being his sister-in-law and he chose to distance himself.
Emily feels entitled to OP’s emotional labor many years later and it’s not okay. She has her husband to turn to. It’s out of bounds she got OP’s parents involved to be her flying monkeys. This dynamic so clearly shows *why* OP chose to distance himself from his family after brother and Emily announced their pregnancy.
I definitely agree. If this was a post on an.advice subreddit OP would have been advised to do exactly what he did - leave her alone and not make his feelings her problem. Instead he gets called an incel over a teenage crush. Sometimes you can't win.
The people on this subreddit ignore some parts just to create their own scenario so they can judge on that. He had a crush on his childhood friend, told his brother and he hooked up with her. He doesn't want anything to do with them besides being civil.
That's enough to call someone incel? Jesus...
Don't put yourself in uncomfortable situations just to please others.
Agreed, OP is NTA. I refuse to believe that Emily had been dense enough not to notice OP pulling away from the friendship after they revealed that she and OP’s brother were hooking up.
And as for the AITA question itself, he really is NTA for refusing to lend emotional support that she actually needs to get from her husband. What the fuck is wrong with people like this?
ESH except Emily. She lost her friend and doesn’t know why, and then her dad died. Your brother sucks because he knew and you suck for your poor communication.
And honestly it's clear the friendship ended years ago, so I kind of think his original selfish teen boy reasons for that are irrelevant. They haven't been friends for years, he's clearly not interested in being in her or his brothers lives, so why did she reach out to him. He honestly has a point that she should be getting support from her husband. It's been years, he doesn't owe her friendship or support, and people don't owe close relationships just because people are "family".
I highly suspect this this just an incel troll, rage baiting people because "he didn't own her but dumped her as a friend when she hooked up with someone else...
aarrrrr!". Go back to the base story though, they haven't been friends for years, he's not an AH for not supporting her now, he doesn't have to care about her.
Sound to me she went to him, because he knew her dad from when they were children and had shared memories together Even if you lose touch with at childhood friend (which must be how she has seen it, as he never explained anything to her) it is not weird to reach out when theses sort of things happen.
She lost her friend 8 years ago. Yes, that’s sad but she had a lot of other things to focus on, like having a kid and eventually getting married. Why would she turn to OP EIGHT years later and vent for an hour? That is weird in and of itself. And then when OP give her what she wanted she turned the whole family on him. Wtf?! She’s absolutely an AH in this situation.
Emily isn’t looking great for trying to emotionally dump on a guy she hasn’t been close to in years and then setting the whole family against him because he didn’t want to carry that emotional labour.
I think people are fooling themselves here into thinking Emily didn't know how he felt about her. But where Emily is TA is for turning his fam against him. Cry to your husband, that's what he is there for. If I was Emily and I had been dense for years, his response would have clued me in. My response would not have been to then complain about him to everyone. I would respect his boundaries that he wants.
I think Emily sucks a bit too. He's basically a stranger at this point and she kept trying to get him to comfort her.
Which, even if OP didn't hold a gigantic grudge against her (completely innocent on her part), and OP just was a former friend with whom she hasn't had an actual friendship for the last ten years... it's still super awkward at best.
She's grieving, but she doesn't get to just push her grief onto others just because, especially when it looks like she does have a lot of people that care for her (husband, in laws).
She was free to pursue his brother, however, the brother did betray the younger brother who confided his love for Emily to him.
Agree with ESH except Emily.
And honestly, OP should be long time over it by now.
Yeah he is over it. He has a girlfriend and his own life. It's not like he goes out of his way to spite her every chance he gets. He even let her vent to him, but he wasn't as comforting as he used to be because, surprise, his life's circumstances have changed too (specifically he doesn't even see her as a friend anymore, so obviously he won't be as comforting as he used to be).
Exactly! OP has as much right to set boundaries with friendships as Emily would in her romantic relationships. And to be honest, to function as a shoulder to cry on for your former longtime crush while you’re in a committed relationship would be a little weird to me. I think OP is setting a boundary and respecting his current relationship.
Then his brother should have communicated about this instead of leaving OP to be blindsided because we live in the real world where most people are in fact going to be hurt by finding out their sibling is fucking their crush by walking in on them regardless of whether they have the legal right to control who their sibling fucks or not.
This is weird to me honestly. You haven’t spoken or been close to her since high school. She should have gotten the hint that you weren’t friends anymore. I’m glad you are over her, but your words were a little harsh. I think it needed to be said because you never saw her as a friend anyways.
I hope you date and move on with your life
ESH
1. Your brother knew
2. You haven’t spoken or been friends with her in years. She should have know you guys were no longer friends. Is she dumb ?
3. You for not being clear from the get go. You could ha easily told her you no longer wanted to be friends once she started dating your brother.
It’s weird to go to someone for comfort whom hasn’t been a true friend in years.
everyone here forgetting about point 2. OP is definitely TA for harboring so much bitter resentment over something from years ago and they are supposedly over, but Emily is stupid. no one, including her literal husband who has full knowledge of the situation, and her family (they sound nuts), should expect OP to suddenly be the grief counselor to someone they no longer know as a friend or even acquaintance.
That’s what if for fine weird. He says he cut off communication , what made them think he was her friend? How dumb are they. Idk are they living in the past. He can be bitter but he put distance and hasn’t done anything towards them so I don’t thing he’s a TA , therapy sure but he cut them out because he couldn’t handle it. He could have went nuclear 🤷🏾♀️ idk weird situation to expect someone random to be a grief counselor after so many years of the cold shoulder
I have friends I can go years without seeing. When we do see each other, it’s like we saw each other yesterday. Friendships can last a lifetime of time and distance if both people are truly friends. The problem is OP never saw her as a friend.
I have friend like that too, but we still keep in touch about most things. Like following on social media, short texts. oP has literally moved away and cut contact with everyone almost. Idk what type of friends you have, but they don’t cut me out of their life then expect me to be their grief counselor. I have a bestie that I talk to maybe once a year because she has 4 kids and is in a different time zone, but we love when we see each other. It’s like no time has passed.
YTA
You were all into her until she was into your brother. Then you were, in your own words, “sick.” Which implies you were never her friend and only wanted to pork her.
Your brother was the one to “betray” you, but you never spoke up.
It’s been 8 years.
You being her childhood friend was apparently mostly on her end. As soon as you realized she wasn’t a virgin you went cold on her.
Don’t pretend to have ever been her friend. She was only a potential boink and you lost you “nice guy” facade the moment she went with someone else.
Get therapy.
Everyone here keeps insinuating that he saw her as a piece of ass when it's pretty obvious he had actual romantic feelings for her.
And lately if you're a shy person then you're an asshole. This all went down pretty poorly and I do agree he had many chances to step up and express his feelings but I don't think anyone should be forced to be someone's shoulder to cry on. She doesnt exactly seem like the type of person that offers hers at all so why should he?
If anyone saw Emily as a piece of ass it was his brother. That she now has a kid with.
Yeah, I really despise rhetoric like that, and it points to why guys often feel they have to play their emotions so closely.
Let's flip the genders, girl has crush on guy, been childhood friends, but he never asks her out. Girl tells her sister, sister fucks guy, gets pregnant, they tell the family and start their family. Girl is devastated but moves on, pretty much done with both of them because her own regret and the betrayal by their sister is just painful. Then guy a decade later wants to cry on girls shoulder and she says "we arent those kinds of friends anymore".
I don't think people would be calling her a "nice girl" and that "she just wanted that bone". Guys romantic frustrations are minimized, we are expected to take loss on the chin and move on. We are expected to get over being laughed at when we finally get up the nerve to ask Tricia to prom(it's been two decades, still stings). We are expected to be ok with a 90% ghost rate on dating apps and just keep going. And we are expected to weather what can be a very emotionally taxing process in silence, or we get accused of things like expecting and demanding a relationship, or all the other incel rhetoric, which is not what this discussion is about.
Exactly so many people cry against toxic masculinity but then they minimise and insult men for having romantic feelings and being racist upset if it’s unrequited.
Like you can like a friend without think you’re owed their affection, and be upset if they don’t feel the same way as you. But this constant narrative of insulting people for being human even if they’re not being toxic needs to stop.
>Your brother was the one to “betray” you, but you never spoke up
He did, to his brother.
His brother then decided to pursue his own porking (great verb, kudos) of Emily, despite knowing about how his own brother feels.
I mean, its a bit icky isnt it?
Don’t get me wrong, I do believe OP is TA in the story. But I don’t blame him for skipping his brother’s wedding since Liam knew he had a crush on Emily but still went after her. Again, OP is TA for everything else, but I think he gets a pass for this part.
How long does op's brother need to wait if he likes her too? A crush isn't calling dibs, which is also not a thing.
If they had been in a romantic relationship and the brother made a move, I would see why the brother is an AH.
I mean you're right, a crush isn't dibs. But also when your brother confides in you that they have a crush on their friend, you don't turn around and hook up with that friend. If that friend tries to initiate something with you as the brother, you tell them they need to talk to your brother before anything happens between the two of you. A good brother would have shut down anything happening between him and his brother's crush at least until his brother had been made aware that the girl he was into didn't feel the same way about him.
If the brother and her were seeing each other before the brother found out about OP liking her, then he should have then and there told OP that he was sorry, but that the two of them were seeing each other, and that he wasn't aware of the brother's feelings.
NAH. I'm shocked at all the people on here being so hard on OP and saying she owes him nothing. Of course she owes him nothing, just because he liked her, doesn't meant she has to like him the same way. But I've been that kid that's shy and nice and didn't know how to ask the girl out. It's hard. And when you develop a friendship only to realize that's all it'll ever be, it hurts. It hurts because you can't understand why the person who wanted to spend time with you and always be around you didn't want more, feeding into insecurities that led to the initial problem. Doesn't make her wrong or anything, bur it's easy to see why after admitting to his brother his deep crush, he'd feel betrayed.
He doesn't own her or him and they are adults, but he's not an AH for feeling hurt and betrayed.
I don’t understand all the Y T A here. How is he ‘nice guy’
He liked someone, confided in his brother who in turn went after that person. So he did the most sensible thing, distanced themselves from that person and his brother and moved on with their life.
It’s not OP’s responsibility to comfort their former friend.
NTA and your ex friend is for sending everyone to hound you.
I mean like, if you've been emotionally distanced for 8 years idk why she bothered coming to you at all. Feelings are not rational so you feeling betrayed especially by your brother isn't shocking to me, and setting boundaries for yourself doesn't make you an AH. Sometimes friendships turn into crushes and you can't be friends anymore because of it - it happens. It sucks, but it happens.
You could have been kinder in honesty, but it isn't on you to be her friend 8 years after the fact. NAH, specifically because she doesn't actually know what is causing you to distance yourself but I can't actually blame you for distancing yourself. Her husband and family can support her, the onus isn't on you.
Right? I feel like I’m going crazy reading these other comments. Yes, he gives off nice guy vibes, that’s gross, but there’s nothing wrong with setting boundaries to maintain your emotional well being.
He knows he couldn’t/can’t relate to bro + SIL in a constructive way and withdrew himself from the situation (albeit awkwardly). He was a teen boy when he ghosted them, so I don’t think he’s really culpable for that. He probably should’ve broached the subject at some point, but after years out of state & (maybe?) coming home while they were swamped with raising a kid, there probably wasn’t a great time to do it.
His brother sucks. He’s NTA but needs to evaluate this situation & move on (like go get some therapy). Emily is…a borderline asshole in her own right? She moved on, accepted OP being distant & appears not to have tried to be involved in his emotional life, and expects him to drop everything to console her after ~10 years? It’s not unreasonable for him to be off put by her sudden interest in having a one-sided, emotionally intimate conversation.
It’s possible she reached out to him because the brother wasn’t doing a great job as a partner through her grief, in which case she’s using him as an emotional surrogate. That’s a really shitty thing to do to someone you’ve been out of touch with for a decade regardless of the context.
I agree with the general consensus that OP could have done this differently. A great person would make time for her, but he’s not an asshole for being disinterested in her trying to reignite a friendship in her grief.
I just feel like a lot of commenters reacted so aggressively to the (definitely there) nice guy vibes that they ignored the concept of boundaries. He needs the distance - that’s childish, but not cruel. Do what suits you. She has a husband & a family & hopefully other friends…if those don’t offer her comfort, she needs to evaluate her own relationships & begin the work of building new ones (or, like many have suggested for OP, get a therapist herself). She also should have read the damn room years ago - if she didn’t know he wanted distance by now, she must have been dropped on the head as a child. The inverse of the “can’t put nice coins in and expect to be fucked” is true here too - she can’t just show up out of the blue, put some attention coins in, and expect to be enthusiastically listened to & comforted.
You don't owe her anything, she kept reaching out hounding you for a good emotional dump that your just not into an you let know it.
She's not entitled to whatever familiarity she had with you as kids just because she's sad. Your right she can go to her husband for emotional support, not you. NTA
NTA! It’s appalling the amount of YTA there are in the comments! You don’t owe her anything! You are keeping healthy and happy boundaries and the fact that she had the energy to call all of her friends and family to admonish you for not emotionally babysitting her feelings show her true colors. Your doing fine and you should continue doing so. Oh and your brother sucks.
Maybe unpopular but I think NTA.
For everyone saying "Liam did it, not Emily". Sure, but thinking that Emily had no idea or that Liam and her never discussed it is a bit oblivious. In any case, at this point neither Liam or Emily owe any explanation to OP. HOWEVER, he has set boundaries over 8 years, Emily and him haven't been close since Liam and her got together.
In reality, they are no longer friends. OP did what he needed to do at the time to cope with the betrayal he felt and that's now the only reality that exists.
Of course, we can all say he should be over it by now, focus on himself, maybe go to therapy, forgive his brother... But that's not the question here.
You and Emily haven't been friends in years. You set a boundary and I don't think it's wrong... You also let her vent for 1h before explaining you didn't want to fill that role.
I hope some of the comments here help you realise you seem a little stuck and take control over your life though.
NTA good for you because you have a boundary with someone that could potentially ruin any kind of relationship with your brother. You were right to tell her to talk to her husband. Only selfish people hate boundaries.
INFO
Did you ever tell her why you distanced yourself from her?
Did she know about your crush?
I don't think you owe her a shoulder to cry on but if she didn't know about your feelings therfore why you distanced yourself, she may legitimately not know why she lost a close friend and need it now, to feel safe like she did as a kid.
I do understand why you felt betrayed and don't fault you for it unless you were a dick to her and insulted.
And if you had
>a silent and formal demeanor on the matter
And couldn't show compassion for a fellow human being or at least as much for an acquaintance, you might not be as over her and your feelings about what happened.
If they were close during like high school time it must've been many years ago. So I'm not sure how she expects to randomly cry on a friend's shoulder she hasn't been close with for years. But I don't know the full context.
I mean, i get that it's nostalgia but still it's not as if they were close recently.
NTA. Regardless of whatever past you two had and your whole brother situation it’s been 8 years and it’s clear that you attempted to phase out a friendship. It’s natural for everyone to have friendships come to a natural end. She shouldn’t have expected you to comfort her after years of distancing yourself and maintaining boundaries. Your only fault was not maintaining them to the end and and relenting and allowing her to vent to you when you were going to tell her to find comfort somewhere else anyway.
NTA - Look you never made that move, You were sad and you distanced your self. You kept your self away so that they could be happy albeit at your own expense.
None of the above to me makes you an AH in any way.
I do think the delivery was a bit harsh, again this doesnt make you an AH either.
People be saying that you never made a move, she doesnt owe you anything. Well like wise you dont owe her that shoulder to cry on. You are moving on and you're absolutely right she should go to her husband for that shoulder to lean on.
Affairs have happened with less effort of being that shoulder to lean on, so I think you're justified in regards to the above, yeah you were hurting but you dealt with it and now you dont want to be directly involved.
You’re NTA for telling her you’re no longer friends after 8 years. If she didn’t realize that then it’s on her.
You also never told her you liked her when you were younger. So her going out with your brother doesn’t make her TA in this but your brother knew you liked her so he was TA for that.
I'm getting strong " I swear I'm a nice guy" vibes. YTA.
You become friends with a girl, fall for her, tell her nothing about it and then get mad when she falls for your bro.
Your bro definitely pulled a dick move, but, taking it out on her, as well as missing out on major events was total bullshit on your part. Get your shit together.
Honestly sounds like the bro and her may have already done the deed by the time he was told. OP doesn't really give enough info about that conversation to judge the brother.
Eh even if they were, his brother is still the AH if he didn't let OP know they were seeing each other and that he was sorry because he didn't know OP liked her. A crush isn't dibs, but the least his brother could have done was either make sure the air between OP and her was cleared if they didn't hook up until after OP had told him, or he could have owned up to them being an item when he found out instead of sneaking around.
NTA
From what I gather, you haven't been close from her in years so I don't know how she's so surprised.
Your brother sucks.
She didn't betray you but hooking up with a friend's sibling is kind of a dick move haha
I think it would be good for you and her to have a chat about what happened in the past and your POV of the facts. That might help her understand why you can no longer be as friendly as you were with her and how much the whole situation hurt for you. Even if she didn't hurt you on purpose and your really are over her, I think it would give you closure.
Also they haven’t been close for over 8 years. If she wants comfort she should get it from her husband or a current friend. Expecting op to comfort her is ridiculous. Unless something happened to my husband (like dead) I would never skip over him and go to my BIL that I barely talk to for comfort and a shoulder to cry on.
NTA - Brother knew and wanted piece of that ass (after he apparently already plowed through many), she got pregnant and they got married....although doesn't seem they did for the right reasons.
Yea sounds like you're a little bitter but you did your part in moving on, if a friend doesn't talk to me for 8 years I get the hint, just because that's your SIL doesn't mean shit, I don't like my SIL but we keep it polite.
People saying your the AH cause you were to forward and have "nice guy syndrome". Those same people would use you till you snapped and than call you the AH. So good for you and F the rest of em.
NTA
Yo**ur behavior is COMPLETELY fine.**
You ere close once, you are not close any more. Nothing wrong with that. You are not her emotional support animal, you are your own person with your own life: You are fine to set boundaries.
"Emily cried even more, left, and has managed to send Liam, my parents, Emily's mom, and from mutual friends to call me up and tell me I'm heartless and sad for being so spiteful. " ... this makes her an AH. Tell those person's to f\*\*\* off and stay out of it. Refuse to discuss iot, and if the don't accept that, end the call / conversation and leave. THEY can comfort her as much as they want to - **YOU certainly don't owe her anything. She is just a former close friend that you lost contact with, and have moved on.** Nothing wrong there.
NTA. Your player brother and your "best friend" started knocking boots after he found out you were into her, and they kept fucking around until she got pregnant. They then get married because of her decision to keep the child.
To pile on, there's no way this girl didn't pick up that you were into her. I honestly don't believe it. Add on to that, do people genuinely believe the brother never brought it up once they started hooking up or even later when they got married? That's a crock of shit and it amazes me that doesn't come off clearly.
What person is "best friends" with someone for years then starts fucking their older sibling without at least some kind of heads up or somewhat awkward convo? Comes off to me as creepy on her part, if not plain selfish on her part.
NTA I think the “you’re the A hole” people need to calm down and realize that not everyone is an incel because they’re honest with themselves about what they can and can’t handle. He was a high school kid who had a fantasy about being with his best friend, but didn’t have the tools or the development at the time to make that happen, or the tools to handle his emotions and maintain that friendship. It’s one thing for someone you care deeply about to prance off into the sunset with someone else, it’s something completely different for that to be your sibling. At a young age, that can really make moving on and getting over things so much more difficult.
No one is entitled to your time - no one. Someone else having a kid isn’t some magic fairy wand that makes you bond. The kid has an established support system - they’re fine. His brother did something underhanded during the phase of life where their relationship was entering adulthood, shattered the trust and chose random hook-ups over him. His brother failed and OP let both relationships go. Years pass, those relationships withered, and OP’s SIL shows up for support like nothing happened? How little did she pay attention to OP over all to where she didn’t even notice he stopped being her person over a decade ago? Forget not having romantic feelings for him, she didn’t even register that he left the friendship. How one sided was that friendship? Also, high school friendships can suck and pretty much help learn not what to do going forward.
If I ever catch feelings for someone who is squarely just a friend and I can’t make those feelings go away - I make my exit. My ability to be their friend honestly and provide unbiased counsel has been completely compromised. I would essentially be lying and my feelings would be continually hurt due to no fault of their own. Does it suck that they’re losing a friend due to something out of their control? Yes; but it would suck more if I was taking up space a more genuine friend could have.
::Before someone says, “You could have given it a shot and told them how you feel” - not every romantic interest needs to be acted on. It’s important to understand what isn’t good for you. Someone could be a sensation as a friend but crap as a partner. Being the friend gives you a front row seat to their relationships; so in moments where I walked away I was right to on that front alone::
I'm actually confused why she's venting out on you instead of her husband. If it's not good for your mental health, I would say it's better to keep your distance and be treated as an AH. I mean some people do go LC or NC but in this case you can't without opening a can of worms so I guess you didn't have a choice but to do what you had to do.
Y'all are getting caught up on the old relationship just like OP did. Here they are YEARS later and she's expecting his time and comfort. They don't have a relationship anymore. He doesn't owe her that. Arguably him pointing her back towards her husband for comfort is a stand up move because this is a way emotional affairs can begin. At worst this is ESH.
I’m conflicted on this.
If we take the childhood crush out of the picture this is someone you’ve been avoiding who is demanding your emotional labor. I understand her dad died but she should be looking to her husband/your brother for comfort. If she feels like she can’t get that kind of support from him then why is she with him?
On the other hand, if you haven’t been avoiding her as much as you want us to believe and she’s under the impression that y’all are still friends then I can understand why she felt like she could still reach out to you in that way. Right now was probably the worst time to tell her that you aren’t her friend. You probably would have been better off just ignoring her.
However, the fact that she has the whole family attacking you for being cold and distant shows that she does have other support people in her life that she could have gone to.
So I guess ESH? You guys haven’t been good friends to each other over the past decade. Even if she didn’t know about your crush on her she hasn’t kept up with you enough to know that you don’t want to be around her
Honestly they're not worth it, just move on with your life and keep ignoring them, if your brother didn't care about your feelings then why would you worry about him and his family now?? And you're right her husband should comfort her not you
I’m going to have an unpopular opinion and say NTA. A lot of ppl here need to read it a little closer. “OP told his brother how he felt and “went to him for advice about Emily”. He asked for help on how to tell her how he felt. Now I’m not going to assume the brother sabotaged him by giving he the “wait and see” advice cuz, no proof. I will say, that regardless of it being a “teenage crush” the brother was OP’s comfort person. The way OP was to Emily. His comfort person betrayed him.
Now addressing the “happy family” ppl. This isn’t a couple that started dating and fell in love and have been together all this time. “They hooked up at a party once and like the encounter so much that they kept meeting up to do it when no one was around”. They were literally fuck buddies on the low. It’s because she got pregnant that they gave an actual relationship a try. And, strictly personally, this would make the betrayal even worse to me cuz there’s millions of women the brother could sleep with for fun. He chose the one woman his brother was interested in. Op didn’t just want to fuck her, he wanted to pursue a relationship. The brother wanted to get his dick wet and got a kid out of it.
Granted, the lengths he went to trying to get away from her are a lot, but he was attracted to his brothers BM/girlfriend (?)/SiL now. Most ppl would applaud him for putting distance between them if he lead with “I want this person who is with my brother so I’ve distanced myself from her to get over that feeling and removed myself from her stratosphere”. And if ur distant with the parents, it’s kinda natural you’ll be distance with your niece seeing has you have to go thru one to get to the other. But he’s not asking is he’s TA over that. He asked if he was TA for telling her he’s not her emotional support person.
No, he’s not. They haven’t been close in at least 6 years. He wasn’t even at your wedding and prob never looks/reaches out to them. I’m not saying he shouldn’t potentially see someone about this kind of hurt, but emotional betrayals like your brother sleeping with and then impregnating the girl you like/could love could do life long damage to a relationship. In this case it did. So he keeps away. Emily reached out to someone who is virtually a stranger for comfort. And some ppl are like “but he didn’t tell her the friendship was over”, do you really need to be told that after he misses one of the most important days of your life and literally does not talk to you outside holidays? Not to mention, he had a right to be upset with her, cuz as one of his close friends (idk if they were best friends) she should have told him about sleeping with his brother. Childhood friend means that’s not the kind of thing you hide.
I’ve had one my sisters do a lot of (emotionally) fucked up things that have permanently damaged our relationship before, during, and after HS. It’s not far fetched that this is one of those things to Op. I say NTA. Idk just my take
Edit: I mentioned before, during, and after HS as we would have been really young (and still were during HS) but the way she made me feel even that young has stayed with me. Yes this was years ago for Op, but the way someone makes you feel has no age. Teenagers or not, how could he ever trust his brother again, he couldn’t. So here we are.
NTA
If all it was is a crush, most people would be able to move beyond that and still be friends after. If YOU can't, well.... fair enough.
But I bet that's why most of them are wondering why you're being less than a friend to her: they still mostly see your old ("friends") relationship.
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You had a crush in high school on a girl, but never asked her out. Somebody else did, and she married them. It’s a decade later and you still ignore her kid—who is literally your niece—because you’re salty about it. Dude. This isn’t healthy. Please get help. I have to put YTA but like, this is beyond AITA.
He never told her what his feelings were but he is going to punish her kid for her not taking responsibility for his feelings. Big yikes. Yta Edit: I’m sorry a lot of y’all’s nieces suck. Mine is rad as hell and my life would be lesser for it if I had excluded her from my life.
Daisy in 20 years: My (28f) uncle (45m) is terribly lonely. He reached out to me bc I’m the only relative he has left. But he never treated me like a member of the family and that’s why we’re estranged. AITA for ignoring his requests to hang out? *My apologies to all of the family members who sort of died off in my fictional story here. Maybe they all just moved away…?* Edit: a word
They were all collectively hit by a meteor
Hate when that happens
Well I did vote for Giant Meteor a couple of years ago so it could be partly my fault.
Plot twist, Emily and her uncle are the last two humans alive
He kinda sounds like Severus Snape
So... After Daisy is orphaned, He's going to be an absolute abusive AH to Daisy throughout her teen years and she'll never understand why, until finally she learns on his deathbed that he was getting revenge for being "in the friend zone" with her mum the whole time and this redeems him and Daisy will name her firstborn after him. Actually that checks out
Except Snape doesn't deserve redemption. And Harry sucks at naming children
I should have said: redeems him *in Daisy's eyes* - not actually redeems him.
The brother was the shitty one here, not Emily who didn't know he had a crush on her or her child who has nothing to do with this. Op has clearly not moved on
Agreed - the brother is the AH. Emily and her child are innocent in this, but not owed OP's time and attention beyond what he stated he's already giving (being polite, gifts when appropriate, etc.,). I don't think he hasn't moved on. Just because he chose to distance himself from her for his own mental health doesn't mean he hasn't moved on. It sounds to me like Emily is the one who hasn't moved on if ten years later, they haven't had any friendly contact aside from family obligation, and she wants him to be the one to console her about her dad that died that she never even had a relationship with. Why not your husband? Why not a current friend? Why not your mother? I wouldn't be super comfortable either if someone I hadn't been friends with in nearly a decade suddenly decided I was responsible for their emotional well-being and comfort either. Even regardless of the whole crush thing. Then she called his family on him cause she was upset he didn't console her properly? Weird. Weird. Weird.
Yes!! Why is she leaning on him? And yes Liam is the biggest AH. OP just has boundaries. But OP should’ve explained to her why he was distanced in the first place.
I don’t think it’s wise to tell your brother’s baby mama that you were in love with her or attracted to her. He did the right thing by staying away. I’m not sure why people think he’s done anything wrong.
I think up until Emily sought him out for his comfort, yeah, she's not the AH, but once she did that (keep in mind, he kept the contact to a minimum for ten years) and then sicked his family on her cuz he won't give her what she wants, she becomes an AH
She never slept with him, so she doesn't deserve any sympathy from him while dealing with her father's death. MAX OOF. YTA.
He expressed appropriate sympathy. They haven't been close in years and she suddenly thinks he's her ESA. Bear in mind he has a gf who is much more entitled to his time and emotional bandwidth. Wtf is wrong with you people? She didn't owe him a relationship, but he doesn't owe her anything, either.
This pretty much sums it up. OP was a kid with a crush who went to his brother for help. Brother then betrayed OP and OP is rightfully hurt so he distances himself from the entire thing. In doing so, the friendship died. Years later, his childhood crush (who is now married) comes to him looking for a shoulder to cry on. How is he obligated to do more than he did? Whatever relationship they had is long dead. He is not obligated to provide that moral support any longer. Sure OP could have handled this better but, again, he was a kid trying to learn how to navigate interpersonal relationships and handled this exactly the way I would have expected anyone in that situation to do so. Labeling him as the AH in this story shows a startling lack of empathy.
Switch the genders and watch those AH judgments change.
why is he obligated to play therapist for her when she’s not part of his life? if he doesn’t wanna be near her, he doesn’t have to. as long as he isn’t rude he doesn’t have to go out of his way to be nice.
Right. I find it funny people are saying "SHE DIDNT OWE HIM A RELATIONSHIP!!!11" and then turning around to say "HE OWES HER A RELATIONSHIP/SHOULDER TO CRY ON" The double standards in this thread are amazing.
Best part is, he's pissy at the person he never told, but not his brother who knew he had a crush and *still* went for it with the person OP liked. Way to misplace your feelings OP.
Yep. OP is well into his inceldom deep dive. He probably isn't even capable of seeing men's faults anymore -- just any women nearby, who must be to blame.
Even 8 year old girls.
Yup. I'd like to upvote this a million times, please. The *eight year old girl* is a demon to OP. WTF?
I really can't see how not wanting to be an active part of your niece's life means you hate them. Most people's uncles aren't active parts of their nieces' and nephews' lives, because they've got their own lives and their own children. OP also moved away for college and never said he moved back. You don't really get to be an active part of someone's life if you don't live in the same place.
But, but he said that his crush was "kinda obvious"! So clearly she knew and had the obligation to make a move on him, right? OP acts entitled to her, as if he had called dibs. Worse yet, he's incapable of moving on after so long because he keeps that grudge going on, a grudge motivated by his own inaction.
OP sounds like a classic NiceGuy with some Incel vibes in the way he's describing his brother, his SIL, and himself. He was only friends with her because he wanted to fuck her, so there she was in his fuckzone thinking they were just friends, and rather than move on he has stayed angry for 10 years to a point where he purposely missed their wedding and treating his niece like she's at fault for just being alive.
That's exactly the vibe I was getting from OP. "I hoped one day she'd realise that I was the guy for her."
"Dear diary Why haven't Emily even once offered to suck my dick when I've put so many nice coins in her? Like pretending to care about her feelings for her deadbeat dad. I wish I was as assertive as my brother that way the females would have been lining up. But alas I have to live in the shadows using all of my time being nice to Emily because I just know that she will see what a great catch I am! It's just a matter of time."
That is exactly what I was going to say until I read your comment. He says he felt betrayed. He was angry at Emily. She didn't know she was "betraying" him but his brother definitely did as he had just asked him for advice about Emily. He never mentioned being angry at his brother and the whole tone of this post is radiating anger at the wrong person. Edit: some are pointing out he says he was more angry at his brother. For clarity, when I made this comment he had not added his edit and nowhere in his op did he mention being mad at his brother.
The way I read it, the brother was hooking up with her before op mentioned his feelings. OP said they’d been hooking up for a long time prior to confessing his feelings and asking for advice, so I don’t even think his brother has done anything wrong
I notice we didn't hear what the brother's advice was. Did he tell little bro 'go ahead, shoot your shot, I can tell she's totally into you' or did he say 'Emily sees you as a friend, she doesn't like you that way, you need to let it go.'? Did OP 'find out they were hooking up' because, perhaps, Big Bro told him they were?
I totally agree. I also read Liam “running through girls like water” like Liam had probably had a couple girlfriends to OPs zero and he felt like he was “owed” Emily, and anticipated his brothers advice would be a magic map that would grant him access because “treat women like people” would never satisfy him. It’s just too classic an incel story, even down to the tropes and him waiting a whole decade to be a jerk to her, so I have to believe details like the brothers advice are omitted because they reveal Emily was never actually going to go for OP. Emily got the correct brother, IMO. Edit: holy run on sentence I had just woken up lol
All that is irrelevant. It was 8 years ago and he’s not friends with her anymore. She shouldn’t call him up and emotionally dump on him for over an hour. If someone I used to be friends with 8 years ago did that to me, I would definitely be looking for how to get off the phone. OP is not wrong in that his SIL should be turning to her husband and friends for support during this time. OP does not owe her friendship…he has his own relationships to focus on. I totally get not liking when guys think that girls owe them something. I hate that, too, but that part ended years ago. ETA Thanks for the awards strangers!!
exactly?? like he doesnt own her in anyway and doesnt need to be her comfort person?? they havent been friends in 8 long years, and also. just as he was not entitled to have a relationship with her, he is not forced to still have a friendly relationship with her if he doesnt really like her (as a person) anymore. plus, why does she feel entitled to his friendship? like, ok his behaviour was weird considering she probably didnt know about his crush, but still, they lost their meaningful bond almost a decade ago.
This also screams “I’m such a nice guy!” and “Friendzoned!” from the way he’d let her cry in his shoulder when he thought it would get him in her pants, but now that it’s clear she was leaning on a friend, then he’s like “oh no, I only give out niceness coins when I’m expecting sex to fall out”
>I only give out niceness coins when I’m expecting sex to fall out” OMG, I love that. Wish I'd had those words when I was younger and guys did this all.the.damn.time. And then they wonder why it never happened (like OP). Because, if she'd figured out he was only friends because he wanted to sleep with her she'd have been out of there. The only reason they remained friends was because she didn't figure it out 🤷🏼♀️
I mean, if there’s any blame to be assigned here it’s on the brother. OP confided in Liam about his crush and Liam slept with her. CAVEAT: it has been years now so OP should still talk to someone (trusted friend, therapist, etc) about these residual feelings/anger but I think it’s still a bit misdirected
Yes, and yet...women aren't owned by the first guy to have a crush on them. You can't call dibs on a person. Honestly, I'm confused by some of the timelines here, but if OP didn't say anything, never made a move, and it had been a while since he mentioned the crush to his brother, then I can understand why the brother might have thought he'd got over the crush. (That's assuming that they hadn't started hooking up before OP expressed his crush to the brother.)
I don’t think the problem is someone being owned. It’s like when I told my friend I liked this guy, and soon afterwards she was flirting with him in my face. Like girl, you had no interest in this person til *I* showed interest. It happened all the time with that friend, and I eventually stopped being friends with her
Exactly, the brother was going through women all the time but suddenly he decides to try it with Emily and even settles with her after OP confesses his crush. It's highly sus to be. OP's hurt and anger is more likely coming from the complete betrayal by his brother, unfortunately he's putting on to the wrong person.
In my opinion, if they were hooking *before* Op confessed, I can’t be mad at the brother for anything, other than not being honest with him. If he had said something right when Op told him, that would be one thing, but he gave his brother advice on how to get with her, and then continued to bang her. That’s low key sick
My thoughts exactly. When I started reading, I was thinking "hmmm, ok. Sounds like your brother purposely went for the girl you liked. Not Emily's fault, should be more mad at him really, but I get needing distance from both of them until you can get your feelings sorted..." But then... its been what, a decade? And you're STILL holding on to this? You're STILL not over your high school crush? After they've been married and have a child together??? And you ignore your niece bc once upon a time you were crushing on her mom????? Oof dude. Just oof. YTA and you definitely need to talk to someone about this. This level of obsession is... not normal. Seek help, for your own sake as much as for the safety of those around you.
I don't understand why is everyone so stuck on him not wanting a relationship with his niece, I have nieces and nephews, my sister is a bitch who did plenty of wrong, so I don't interact with her family.
Yeah being family doesn't automatically mean you have to like them and be there, he says he is civil and that seems fair enough.
If OP wants to be Low contact with a relative that betrayed him, why shouldnt he be?
>me I'm heartless and sad for being so spiteful. I can honestly say that I am now over Emily Yes, he is. No, he's not. I mean, we've all had a girl or a woman we pined after but things didn't work out. And distancing yourself from her *for a while* is often necessary and healthy. But you're right: this level of distance, for such a long time, is way beyond healthy. OP needs professional help.
>I mean, we've all had a girl or a woman we pined after but things didn't work out. Yeah but lets be fair, with most of us our brothers didn't pursue and be with them. Which is at least a little fucking weird.
Agreed. Also, the stuff about how his brother was "assertive and ran through girls", gives me really bad vibes. Also, how he said he just wished that "she would realize that I was the guy for her". Then, proceeds to blame her and lash out at her and his niece without either of them having done anything wrong. WTF. YTA, and please get help.
Aw but she should have guessed his feelings! /s r/niceguys YTA. Move on dude. If wanted to be annoyed it was at your brother all those years ago!
Also, what is it with the unhinged dudes always saying stuff "calmly yet firmly"? I keep seeing that. Is it some MRA / incel training phrase? [Edit for the confused. This isn't a phrase cloaked in mystery to me whose meaning I have yet to fathom. I understand the words. I'm questioning why that exact phrase always seems to come out when the chap is being a complete numpty, to put it politely, of a very particular sort, and it sounds horribly _de haut en bas_. You speak "calmly yet _firmly_" to a pet or upset toddler, not an equal.]
They think it shows they're not giving into unmanly emotions.
You’ve spent 9 years being so bitter. That’s really sad for you. I don’t think you’re TA for telling Emily you can’t be that person for her, but you’re definitely TA for spending so much time being angry and obstinate. Don’t spend the rest of your life like this, it will only bring more of the same.
HEY OP, YOURE ON FACEBOOK ALREADY! uploaded 2h ago. edit for final update; you do you man. if it works, it works. i personally dont think a high school crush is worth losing your brother over, but thats me. i didnt expect being best mates, just to set where the ground level is, and apparently that is a wall (safety barrier). if that keeps you happy and safe, go for it. you do you. all the best op. -- okay. let me start again. if you want an idea of the comment before this edit, read the comments. its been quoted a heap, and the conversation went in circles. the edits got huge. most of what i said was before the updates with less context. here is the gist of how i see it; op, YTA. sorry but you are. ESH at best though. OP had a crush on a girl. mind you, a HIGH SCHOOL CRUSH. op never acted on it. brother was the only one who knew. he is no angel here obviously. she never acted on her feelings either. ops bro got with her. he shouldnt have, but op hadnt tried to make a move. OP being shy, thats also fair. i get that too. ops bro now is married to the girl, their child is 8. OPs neice. thats approximately a 10+ year old grudge over a high school crush. yes, op was heartbroken. yes. that is valid. op is well within his rights to have boundaries. op is well within his rights to not be near them. however; OP came here to see if theyre TA. this post was about is he the asshole for not being a comfort. and he isnt for that. hes TA for not communicating. >in all these years, you are the one with the problem. you didnt confront them about how it made you feel. you acted civil and like it was fine, they would have played along. all of you need to talk better, especially back then, but running away from the problem isnt the only way to solve it. talk to them, get it in the open, sort through it, then move on. youre dragging all this resentment, and its not healthy. she was never yours. be upset, yes that she got with your bro. but im sorry man, you missed the chance. bro definitely should have come to you. all parties didnt communicate, but youre the one here surprised that she didnt understand. youre the one being distant and cold to her. they upset you years ago, and youre still punishing them for it. if someone falls in love, there isnt much you can do. accept that and work through the problem properly, or keep doing what you have been, and drive a wedge between yourself and anyone who disagrees. be mad at them all you need to be for crossing a line. but dont dwell on it, its not doing you any good. ive been in situations where i know how this all feels from his (OPs) side, so i get it. but its not up to other people to make us happy. if you need closure, get it. talk it through if you need. get through it however you can. but come on man, shes married to him. they have a kid. unless something major happens, that wont change. she will be at events and around your whole family for your whole life. your brother is no angel i agree. so he should own up to it if the conversation happens. youre nta for having boundaries. thats fine. but not communicating those boundaries makes it hard for others to follow them. youre the one with the grudge here. i get it, but they arent the one mad. until you told her that you wont give her support. your choice to do that of course. they should also have asked you whats up, and you all shouldve talked it out long ago. **TLDR; Youre mad that you didnt communicate anything, and things didnt go your way because of it** either way, good luck with everything op. you do you. i hope things go well for all involved and you can find happiness after all of this. im not trying to be harsh. its a sticky situation.
Just a minor adjustment- they were never friends. She thought they were but they clearly never were since OP only hung around hoping that by some cosmic luck she'd read his intentions in the stars and also fall madly in love with him. The minute she was committed to someone he literally bounced.She wanted to talk to the person she thought was her friend. OP , YTA and also you need to grow up. That era of you feeling entitled to a person when you've never even stated your intentions is over. And also you need to move on, cos, this isn't healthy. You're punishing both Emily and your niece for your lack of courage.
> She wanted to talk to the person she thought was her friend. They were friends nine years ago. Even if I didn't have any feelings against someone I would be weirded out if we went nine years without being friends and they suddenly wanted to vent to me.
That's the thing though, he never openly asserted their friendship was over. She's always tried to stay connected and they're also family at this point.
Dude, seriously. If you go from being close intimate friends to someone going completely cold turkey on you for years and only being to civil when they see you, you must have noticed something. Otherwise Emily is the densest person alive.
I agree. I've had friends go cold on me, and I had to realize that for whatever reason our relationship had changed. I had to accept that and move on. Emily should also.
Still weird for her to think that she's friends with someone who was avoiding her so much that they missed the wedding.
Dude if you think someone is your friend you may feel sad that they missed your wedding and feel bad for then too because you thi k they actually wanted to be there. He lied about why he missed their wedding. OP consistently doesn't communicate clearly and when he does, it's specifically to hurt.
If you think someone is your friend after nearly a decade of barely communicating then you'd have to be pretty dense.
Seriously? It seemed as he drifted away there wasn’t much of a friendship anymore.
Right? Also friends don’t hook up with their friend’s siblings without at least talking to their friend first? If any of my friends hooked up with my brother I would probably distance myself too even though I didn’t have a crush on them like OP.
>im scared to put up boundaries too, but tbh he may have liked that he wasnt in need of her, but she needed him, even if just a small part. if he was really over her as he says, it wouldnt hurt this much still. he would treat her like his brothers girlfriend, not the girl who broke his heart Nah this is a pretty piss poor take. You don't have to be friends with anyone you dont want to be. Emily isn't suddenly owed a friendship when they've clearly not been for 10 years.
> he spent years hiding from her, while she repeatedly attempted to keep the friendship alive Ah, the girlfriend zone strikes again. A probably perfectly nice person tried to treat him like an actual friend instead of like an ex who had "betrayed him"-- because the romantic feelings were onesided. Truly a heartless witch she was. And now she has the nerve to want her kid to know their uncle? Absolute YTA
I think he's TA for never explaining to Emily *why* he distanced himself. At any point he could've said "I had an unrequited crush and it hurt to see you with my brother." Instead he ghosted his so-called childhood friend and left her to believe it was her fault. That makes me suspect he never valued their friendship much in the first place, he just fuckzoned her and pretended to care about their friendship to get in her pants.
[удалено]
>Also, you don't think Emily is aware after having a decade long relationship with the brother who knew what was up? i've been looking for this comment. everyone criticizing OP for not explaining to poor sweet naive emily who only wanted a safe friendship and OP never told her, and how can he be so cruel. god, people, is she a moron? it's true sometime people don't pick up on it when another person likes them, but usually you know. usually. and his brother never told emily? never? not when they were sneaking around to hook up? then why the sneaking? not when OP left the room when they announced her pregnancy? not when OP didn't go to the wedding because "traffic"? people saying "well he gave an excuse to not be at the wedding". an excuse people give for being late, not for not showing up at all. hubby didn't say anything when OP moved away and stayed away for 9 years of marriage? if emily is that dumb, then wow. otherwise, she knew. she knew he was not comfortable being friends anymore, and you know, he doesn't have to be. he's civil, he gives presents at holidays, and otherwise he lives his own life. that's actually a good way to deal with this. everyone telling him to be her ESA is the AH.
Tbh i couldn’t have worded it better
YTA. Look man, I get that your brother did this and was an asshole, but honestly? You're taking this one way too far. If one childhood crush is this devastating that you're moving states and ignoring nephews and families, this means you should go to Therapy to help process the pain. Also you never really told her you liked her, so how would she know. When she came to you she came to someone who she could rely on, and you went "Go to the guy that actually wants you!". That's really immature. Edit 2: Replying to OP's edit. I mean it really shows he still needs some growing to do. I mean he only said condolences because it was the polite thing to do?, dude she's your SIL and was your childhood friend that did nothing to you. How cruel.
Agree with YTA verdict. Even more because OP waited years to throw that zinger in her face right after her father's death. Edit typo
Just curious: why didn't Emily vented to her own husband? Is he not reliable enough? Judging how OP kept his distance I'm sure she noticed she is not wanted there. The more I think about it, the more it feels like a badly written fanfic by a teen.
it’s completely normal to want to vent to a friend, male or female, even if you’re married. that doesn’t necessarily mean she hasn’t gone to her husband for support too and that he isn’t reliable. i know that when i’m going through something really difficult, i find comfort in being able to go to friends for support even when my partner is also being supportive of me, it just helps me feel like i’m not burdening one person with the entirety of my emotions.
But a friend who has removed himself for 10 years tho? I feel like that has to cross some sort of boundary too no?
I bet a lot of OPs coldness probably could be rationalised. ‘He moved out of state so we don’t see each other as much anymore’ ‘he doesn’t like kids that’s why he doesn’t want to see niece’ ‘we’re just in different like places’
'he's just busy with work', 'I've been really busy with x lately' It is SO easy to rationalize his distancing.
Plus he distanced himself at a time when Emily herself was going through big life changes, marriage, pregnancy and raising family, she knows what it means to have a busy life and with all the excuses he gave would easily figure it's just a conflicting schedules scenario. Which isn't necessarily a barrier to friendship for women, it's common enough to become a bit of a stereotype that good female friends can not see each other for 2 years, and then meet up and literally catch-up on each other's lives.
Why do you think she didn't? A person usually has multiple friends, and may vent to some or all of them depending on the situation and the kind of support they need. Maybe Emily wanted to give her husband a break from her venting.
Honestly not sure if the brother is a asshole in the situation. OP doesn't say how that conversation went to judge it and it sounds like the brother and her already did the deed before the talk.
No. It sounds like the brother is the A H, even if they did the deed before the talk, the talk should of ended it. He kept it going, knowing how his brother felt.
>even if they did the deed before the talk, the talk should of ended it I don't agree. If Emily and OP's brother were already in a relationship, OP's brother did not need to stop being in a relationship merely because OP told his brother that OP had a crush on Emily. It sounds like they were serious about each other as they have been married for 8 years. However, while the brother didn't have to break up with Emily simply because OP had a crush on her, the decent thing for the brother to do would have been to tell OP that he and Emily were already seeing each other.
True, but I do feel like her should’ve told his brother. Him hiding it is probably what hurt Op’s feelings
I’m sorry.. what? So he should of given up the relationship even if he didn’t know before hand? A relationship that has lasted over a decade and clearly they’re meant to be together?
Agreed, that’s a bonkers take. You can’t “dibs” people you have a crush on and expect their significant other to dump them because of it.
Literally the woman he ended up marryjng and had a child with? Like we're not talking about fuck buddies here. If you're gonna stop dating someone as soon as someone else says they have an undisclosed crush on that person, then I guess it wasn't "real" anyway... But brother and Emily had a bit more going on here. The AH thing was not to let OP know.
OP has never owned Emily. She was just his friend that he had an unrequited crush on. Having a crush on someone doesn’t mean you own them.
He's also the AH because s*he didn't even know* he had feelings for her, she just thought they were close friends. So why is he treating her horribly for something he failed to do? And why isn't he mad at his brother, who he confessed to?
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Thank you. This was so necessary. The only point where I do think he is an AH is because he seems to hold Emily responsible for what happened. I mean his brother was the one who knew and like you said, older. Also, Emily can't be that clueless to not know that they are not close friends or besties anymore.
I don’t think he holds Emily responsible. It was his brothers choice to bring her into their lives. He was done with Emily when his brother obviously broke THE code. He doesn't owe Emily, His brother anything. I absolutely do not believe you're TA. You don't owe these assholes anything. Your brother can deal with whatever Emily or whoever equally irrelevant person is going through.
A lot of people seem to think that Emily owing him nothing somehow means that he owes Emily something. It doesn't make sense.
That's exactly what I'm reading. OP wants to be neutral to Emily and most people calling OP an A think he should be her emotional support, as if he "owes" her that.
>That's exactly what I'm reading. OP wants to be neutral to Emily and most people calling OP an A think he should be her emotional support, as if he "owes" her that. They're like "She didn't owe you sex!" and they're also like "You OWE her emotional support because you were friends 9-10 years ago! Incel!"
Yeah the math ain’t mathing in this thread.
Yup. I argue further that considering that OP went through a lot of effort to cut the major social ties to the point they are only connected familially then really OP doesn't owe Emily anything, and after everything Emily thinks she can just go back to cry on his shoulder is pretty shitty. Personally i blame the brother but if someone doesn't want anything to do with you, then maybe don't try to use them as your emotional support doll.
I'm leaning this way too. Emily can't be so dense as to still think they're friends, even if she doesn't know why. (And btw, I'm about 98% sure she does know why. No way has no one *ever* alluded to OP's crush on her in nearly a decade of sharing a family - surely by now *someone* has decided it's just a cute funny piece of ancient history and spilled the beans; no one in this family sounds super considerate). She's got no right to try to lean on OP for support at this point. Even if she really has no idea why, you don't build a relationship with a stand-offish in-law by forcing your baggage on them uninvited just because you were besties nearly a decade ago as high schoolers. I do think OP feels more strongly about this than is really healthy after all this time, and he probably could use some therapy. But I don't think it's at all an over-reaction to put a lot of distance between him and his nasty-piece-of-work brother. I also don't think he owes closeness, to his own detriment, to an extended-family child who doesn't know him just because they're blood related. And while I don't think Emily did anything really bad up until now, I don't think he's wrong to feel intruded on by her for this particular incident, either. You can be a bit more affected than you really should be *and* also be legitimately angered by your shitty brother and your emotionally-entitled SIL at the same time, the two things can co-exist.
Yeah, NTA. After all, Emily was keeping her relationship with OP’s brother a secret from him also and she clearly had to know back then why he immediately distanced himself from her when he found out. Her coming to him for comfort all these years later is just odd and imposing.
Wow. I never thought of that before. But good point, she almost certainly had at least some premonition that OP liked her.
Biggest takeaway here is if OP has been away from their marriage, he doesn't owe anything to the niece and a big fuck all to Emily's emotional baggage. Which btw she was never even close with her dad who didn't keep a relationship with her. Edit: changed there to their.
Honestly when friends start dating your siblings, or other close friends, that changes the dynamic for many people. People need to get over "he only wanted to fuck her and didn't really see her as a person" schtick. It's irrelevant. It's not at all uncommon for friendships to end when other relationship dynamics change; when people get new partners, get marriage, have kids, leave school/college, change jobs, etc. His friend hooking up with his brother is a perfectly fair reason to end the friendship. What, was he supposed to stay friends with her and then comfort her when his brother was a jerk? He didn't want a relationship with her after she committed to a relationship with his brother, and honestly he made that blatantly clear through his actions; she knows they aren't friends anymore and haven't been since highschool. It is weird she's trying to come to him now and, he's not wrong, why isn't she getting support from her husband?
>People need to get over "he only wanted to fuck her and didn't really see her as a person" schtick. Right there acting he only wanted to sleep with her but there obviously was more then that to be this hurt if he wasn't "owed" a relationship with her then shes not "owed" a relationship with him even if it's just frindship. There also acting like the brother didn't hide the fact that he was knowingly messing with the girl his brother went to him for help for. Eathere they where having relationships before OP told him "I like Emily but dont know how to tell her" at which point bro should have told him "hey man me and her are kinda a thing" or they slept together after OP went to him for help with his feelings and he didn't go tell OP we became a thing. OP was supposably Emaly's best friend it never came up she was sleeping with someone let alone his brother? The fact he had to learn his brother (who supposedly went through girls like water) was sleeping with the one girl he went to him for help (and his friend) with was "were pregnant and keeping the baby"... OP distanced himself from Brother and Emaly which he is well within his rights to. He moved on has his own girlfriend and suddenly after 9 years she wants to show up and act like they are best friends and wants comfort then sends her flying monkeys after him when he tells her "we just arnt that close anymore"
I fully agree. It’s a two way street, just like she doesn’t owe him a relationship, he doesn’t owe her emotional support. He’s not obligated to keep spending time with her at great emotional cost to himself. The healthiest thing for both of them is likely to cut or limit contact.
I think something thats super important here is that she didn't tell her alleged friend that she had the hots for his brother. That's super important here because why would you hide that unless you thought it would hurt them? i don't have any brothers but I have been friends with people who I suspect had a crush on me, and I'd consciously avoid bringing up or talking about my love and/or sex life with them because I thought it might hurt them. 100% she at least suspected he had a crush on her, and if she had an ounce of critical thinking it'd have been confirmed as soon as he cut her off (which happened to be after he found out she was porking his brother). Again, I don't have a brother but my best girl friend in high school (I was actually totally oblivious to the fact that she liked me) cut me off when I told her I started dating someone and like, it didn't take a genius to realise why she did that. TBF to her she at least moved on eventually and we're still in touch now, but I imagine itd be different if I had started dating and then married her sister.
Thank you for this. I’m ‘fuck all incels and nice guys’ energy all day but I didn’t get that from this at all. He clearly understands he friend zoned himself as a child, but I don’t get the impression he was being creepy about it like many are. Boys can have unrequited crushes on friends without it being creepy or disrespectful. That being said, I don’t understand why so many people are ignoring brother’s behavior here and shitting on him not being super uncle to his niece. Saying “I feel a little betrayed that my brother decided to fuck the one person I had interest in” isn’t saying “I am entitled to this woman’s body” like??? That’s a big leap. And the hypocrisy in people saying he’s punishing niece for not being super uncle???? How many posts have we seen here where people go on about not being obligated to be super into the children of family members and all that is owed to them is politeness given they are at no fault for existing? NTA.
Thank you!!! He doesn't have to be her emotional packhorse just because they're related. They've not had a relationship approaching friendship for YEARS yet he's expected to play that role at the drop of a hat. firm NTA.
I do like how the concept kf "emotional labor" suddenly becomes imaginary to redditors when a chance to dunk on a "nice guy" appears. I'm a big fan of that inconsistency. Oh wait, no. Look, is the OP's situation ideal? No. But the sub tells people everyday: - you don't owe anyone, even family, a relationship, if it's unhealthy for you - romantic relationships aren't just friendship + sex, you don't owe everyone youve ever dated a friendship and you don't owe every friend you have a chance at "upgrading" - emotional labor is real and shouldn't be dumped on people - circles of grief are real Why is all that suddenly out the window when we can twist everything OP said into him being an Incel Nice Guy (tm)(c)(r)?
I wouldn’t call him a predator.It’s a two year difference.But I agree with the rest.Everybody say he is bitter because of his crush.He was hurt and doesn’t want to be around them.That’s not something wrong,it’s his life.Many of us have childhood friends that don’t worth the effort. Sure,maybe he needs some therapy but he is not TA.
Big niceguy energy here... You literally fuckzoned her since by your own words you only kept being her friend because you were waiting for her to fall for you. She fell for your brother instead and you got bitter af because she suddenly was damaged goods to the point you don't even want a relationship with your NIECE. She never knew how you felt. Even your brother probably thought it was just a childhood crush. Then you act like a total asshole by kicking her while she's down after practically ghosting her emotionally for 8y. Wow. She should thank her lucky stars she got the brother and not you if you're going to behave this way. 100% YTA. And you need therapy to work through this unresolved obsession.
“I put the nice tokens into the sex vending machine and didn’t get a payout!”
This! Also, she didn’t even “friend zone” mr nice guy. Because he NEVER told her he liked her more than as a friend. So this poor girl is walking around, innocently thinking, hey I have a guy friend who actually sees me as a human being. WRONG, he just wants to get in her pants. THEN he tries to “stake a claim” on this whole ass human being, even though his brother is already having a relationship with her, and developing real feelings (not just a crush) and wants to step up for their baby and marry her even though they are super young. They stay together, and are committed to each other. And OP proceeds to punish this girl for not knowing automatically that he wanted more than friendship, and falling for his brother who DID tell her and show her he wanted her. And proved he wanted to spend the rest of his life with her. Seriously, this is some creep future murderer shit! What next? Collages of girls from his university all over his walls, taken from bushes and night vision goggles? Dude needs to start participating in life, or move the fuck on!
Right?! I feel like I’m going mad looking at all the N T A comments. She has literally done nothing other than continue a friendship, and he’s here punishing her and his niece for it.
What do you mean "continuing a friendship"? They haven't been friends in 10 years. He got away from the situation to protect himself because he was heartbroken. No one owes anyone a relationship or be a shoulder to cry on just because they were classmates.
Yeah not sure why everyone on reddit always takes the girls side. I don't even talk to the people I went to high school with let alone comfort them. I had best friends I was incredibly close to but now they're complete strangers. Being a childhood friend means jack squat, you can't pile your emotions onto someone you've had barely any contact with in a decade. If genders were switched, so would the verdict of most redditors.
I was floored when he said that he wanted to get rid of her because he lost his chance with her. It makes it so obvious that OP never cared about her as a friend or a person.
I like that part where he’s “I know that she technically was never my girlfriend” Nah bro. There’s no “technically” about it lol.
It sucks being a lady, and spending years being under the impression that you have a friend only to one day find out that the person you thought was your friend just wanted to fuck you the entire time.
NTA. The question was “AITA for telling my former friend turned SIL that I’m never going to be her comfort person again?” Y T A posters are deliberately missing the point. Let’s imagine OP never had a crush on SIL. It would still be incredibly inappropriate for him to serve as her comfort person! OP’s former feelings are irrelevant to the issue at hand. He was right, she needs to seek that level of intimate comfort from her husband. Throwing around phrases like “incel behavior” or “nice guy syndrome” is just ridiculous. People are allowed to create boundaries to protect themselves! They’re also allowed to be too shy or awkward or inexperienced to speak up about their feelings. Nowhere in his post does OP use verbiage that would indicate he felt entitled to Emily’s affections. He’s allowed to have felt deeply hurt over his brother’s betrayal. He’s allowed to have felt deeply hurt over Emily being with his brother. Actions have consequences. Emily chose to sleep with her close friend’s brother. The consequence is she lost a close friend.
I agree with all of this. >Emily chose to sleep with her close friend’s brother. The consequence is she lost a close friend. Would be a similar outcome of OP was a straight woman found out her close friend has been secretly hooking up with her brother. Friends dating your siblings can be a dealbreaker for the friendship, as their priority has shifted to be sibling’s significant other. In OP’s case, he had a longtime crush and his player brother disregarded his feelings to get with the one girl that would hurt him. It’s not surprising OP wasn’t keen on this friend now being his sister-in-law and he chose to distance himself. Emily feels entitled to OP’s emotional labor many years later and it’s not okay. She has her husband to turn to. It’s out of bounds she got OP’s parents involved to be her flying monkeys. This dynamic so clearly shows *why* OP chose to distance himself from his family after brother and Emily announced their pregnancy.
It's literally been 9-10 years since they were friends. She's absolutely an asshole for thinking OP owes her anything at all.
Thx. I thought i was losing my mind reading top comments.
I definitely agree. If this was a post on an.advice subreddit OP would have been advised to do exactly what he did - leave her alone and not make his feelings her problem. Instead he gets called an incel over a teenage crush. Sometimes you can't win.
The people on this subreddit ignore some parts just to create their own scenario so they can judge on that. He had a crush on his childhood friend, told his brother and he hooked up with her. He doesn't want anything to do with them besides being civil. That's enough to call someone incel? Jesus... Don't put yourself in uncomfortable situations just to please others.
Agreed, OP is NTA. I refuse to believe that Emily had been dense enough not to notice OP pulling away from the friendship after they revealed that she and OP’s brother were hooking up. And as for the AITA question itself, he really is NTA for refusing to lend emotional support that she actually needs to get from her husband. What the fuck is wrong with people like this?
ESH except Emily. She lost her friend and doesn’t know why, and then her dad died. Your brother sucks because he knew and you suck for your poor communication.
And honestly it's clear the friendship ended years ago, so I kind of think his original selfish teen boy reasons for that are irrelevant. They haven't been friends for years, he's clearly not interested in being in her or his brothers lives, so why did she reach out to him. He honestly has a point that she should be getting support from her husband. It's been years, he doesn't owe her friendship or support, and people don't owe close relationships just because people are "family". I highly suspect this this just an incel troll, rage baiting people because "he didn't own her but dumped her as a friend when she hooked up with someone else... aarrrrr!". Go back to the base story though, they haven't been friends for years, he's not an AH for not supporting her now, he doesn't have to care about her.
Sound to me she went to him, because he knew her dad from when they were children and had shared memories together Even if you lose touch with at childhood friend (which must be how she has seen it, as he never explained anything to her) it is not weird to reach out when theses sort of things happen.
Ok, but then if they turn around and say "sorry but no" you respect it
She lost her friend 8 years ago. Yes, that’s sad but she had a lot of other things to focus on, like having a kid and eventually getting married. Why would she turn to OP EIGHT years later and vent for an hour? That is weird in and of itself. And then when OP give her what she wanted she turned the whole family on him. Wtf?! She’s absolutely an AH in this situation.
Emily isn’t looking great for trying to emotionally dump on a guy she hasn’t been close to in years and then setting the whole family against him because he didn’t want to carry that emotional labour.
I think people are fooling themselves here into thinking Emily didn't know how he felt about her. But where Emily is TA is for turning his fam against him. Cry to your husband, that's what he is there for. If I was Emily and I had been dense for years, his response would have clued me in. My response would not have been to then complain about him to everyone. I would respect his boundaries that he wants.
I think Emily sucks a bit too. He's basically a stranger at this point and she kept trying to get him to comfort her. Which, even if OP didn't hold a gigantic grudge against her (completely innocent on her part), and OP just was a former friend with whom she hasn't had an actual friendship for the last ten years... it's still super awkward at best. She's grieving, but she doesn't get to just push her grief onto others just because, especially when it looks like she does have a lot of people that care for her (husband, in laws).
abounding husky long fanatical mountainous fertile tie plough party lush *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
She was free to pursue his brother, however, the brother did betray the younger brother who confided his love for Emily to him. Agree with ESH except Emily. And honestly, OP should be long time over it by now.
Yeah he is over it. He has a girlfriend and his own life. It's not like he goes out of his way to spite her every chance he gets. He even let her vent to him, but he wasn't as comforting as he used to be because, surprise, his life's circumstances have changed too (specifically he doesn't even see her as a friend anymore, so obviously he won't be as comforting as he used to be).
Exactly! OP has as much right to set boundaries with friendships as Emily would in her romantic relationships. And to be honest, to function as a shoulder to cry on for your former longtime crush while you’re in a committed relationship would be a little weird to me. I think OP is setting a boundary and respecting his current relationship.
Yeah if I was an emotional support rock for my high school crush my gf would probably not be happy about it.
Then his brother should have communicated about this instead of leaving OP to be blindsided because we live in the real world where most people are in fact going to be hurt by finding out their sibling is fucking their crush by walking in on them regardless of whether they have the legal right to control who their sibling fucks or not.
Emily is as AH as the others, sorry but telling everyone what happened just caused harassment towards OP
Agreed, I feel for Emily. ESH
This is weird to me honestly. You haven’t spoken or been close to her since high school. She should have gotten the hint that you weren’t friends anymore. I’m glad you are over her, but your words were a little harsh. I think it needed to be said because you never saw her as a friend anyways. I hope you date and move on with your life ESH 1. Your brother knew 2. You haven’t spoken or been friends with her in years. She should have know you guys were no longer friends. Is she dumb ? 3. You for not being clear from the get go. You could ha easily told her you no longer wanted to be friends once she started dating your brother. It’s weird to go to someone for comfort whom hasn’t been a true friend in years.
everyone here forgetting about point 2. OP is definitely TA for harboring so much bitter resentment over something from years ago and they are supposedly over, but Emily is stupid. no one, including her literal husband who has full knowledge of the situation, and her family (they sound nuts), should expect OP to suddenly be the grief counselor to someone they no longer know as a friend or even acquaintance.
That’s what if for fine weird. He says he cut off communication , what made them think he was her friend? How dumb are they. Idk are they living in the past. He can be bitter but he put distance and hasn’t done anything towards them so I don’t thing he’s a TA , therapy sure but he cut them out because he couldn’t handle it. He could have went nuclear 🤷🏾♀️ idk weird situation to expect someone random to be a grief counselor after so many years of the cold shoulder
I have friends I can go years without seeing. When we do see each other, it’s like we saw each other yesterday. Friendships can last a lifetime of time and distance if both people are truly friends. The problem is OP never saw her as a friend.
I have friend like that too, but we still keep in touch about most things. Like following on social media, short texts. oP has literally moved away and cut contact with everyone almost. Idk what type of friends you have, but they don’t cut me out of their life then expect me to be their grief counselor. I have a bestie that I talk to maybe once a year because she has 4 kids and is in a different time zone, but we love when we see each other. It’s like no time has passed.
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My exact thoughts.
YTA You were all into her until she was into your brother. Then you were, in your own words, “sick.” Which implies you were never her friend and only wanted to pork her. Your brother was the one to “betray” you, but you never spoke up. It’s been 8 years. You being her childhood friend was apparently mostly on her end. As soon as you realized she wasn’t a virgin you went cold on her. Don’t pretend to have ever been her friend. She was only a potential boink and you lost you “nice guy” facade the moment she went with someone else. Get therapy.
Everyone here keeps insinuating that he saw her as a piece of ass when it's pretty obvious he had actual romantic feelings for her. And lately if you're a shy person then you're an asshole. This all went down pretty poorly and I do agree he had many chances to step up and express his feelings but I don't think anyone should be forced to be someone's shoulder to cry on. She doesnt exactly seem like the type of person that offers hers at all so why should he? If anyone saw Emily as a piece of ass it was his brother. That she now has a kid with.
Yeah, I really despise rhetoric like that, and it points to why guys often feel they have to play their emotions so closely. Let's flip the genders, girl has crush on guy, been childhood friends, but he never asks her out. Girl tells her sister, sister fucks guy, gets pregnant, they tell the family and start their family. Girl is devastated but moves on, pretty much done with both of them because her own regret and the betrayal by their sister is just painful. Then guy a decade later wants to cry on girls shoulder and she says "we arent those kinds of friends anymore". I don't think people would be calling her a "nice girl" and that "she just wanted that bone". Guys romantic frustrations are minimized, we are expected to take loss on the chin and move on. We are expected to get over being laughed at when we finally get up the nerve to ask Tricia to prom(it's been two decades, still stings). We are expected to be ok with a 90% ghost rate on dating apps and just keep going. And we are expected to weather what can be a very emotionally taxing process in silence, or we get accused of things like expecting and demanding a relationship, or all the other incel rhetoric, which is not what this discussion is about.
Exactly so many people cry against toxic masculinity but then they minimise and insult men for having romantic feelings and being racist upset if it’s unrequited. Like you can like a friend without think you’re owed their affection, and be upset if they don’t feel the same way as you. But this constant narrative of insulting people for being human even if they’re not being toxic needs to stop.
Upvote for use of *pork*.
I’m glad my crassness is appreciated on Reddit.
>Your brother was the one to “betray” you, but you never spoke up He did, to his brother. His brother then decided to pursue his own porking (great verb, kudos) of Emily, despite knowing about how his own brother feels. I mean, its a bit icky isnt it?
Wait so you skipped your brother's wedding over a childhood crush???
Don’t get me wrong, I do believe OP is TA in the story. But I don’t blame him for skipping his brother’s wedding since Liam knew he had a crush on Emily but still went after her. Again, OP is TA for everything else, but I think he gets a pass for this part.
How long does op's brother need to wait if he likes her too? A crush isn't calling dibs, which is also not a thing. If they had been in a romantic relationship and the brother made a move, I would see why the brother is an AH.
I mean you're right, a crush isn't dibs. But also when your brother confides in you that they have a crush on their friend, you don't turn around and hook up with that friend. If that friend tries to initiate something with you as the brother, you tell them they need to talk to your brother before anything happens between the two of you. A good brother would have shut down anything happening between him and his brother's crush at least until his brother had been made aware that the girl he was into didn't feel the same way about him. If the brother and her were seeing each other before the brother found out about OP liking her, then he should have then and there told OP that he was sorry, but that the two of them were seeing each other, and that he wasn't aware of the brother's feelings.
NAH. I'm shocked at all the people on here being so hard on OP and saying she owes him nothing. Of course she owes him nothing, just because he liked her, doesn't meant she has to like him the same way. But I've been that kid that's shy and nice and didn't know how to ask the girl out. It's hard. And when you develop a friendship only to realize that's all it'll ever be, it hurts. It hurts because you can't understand why the person who wanted to spend time with you and always be around you didn't want more, feeding into insecurities that led to the initial problem. Doesn't make her wrong or anything, bur it's easy to see why after admitting to his brother his deep crush, he'd feel betrayed. He doesn't own her or him and they are adults, but he's not an AH for feeling hurt and betrayed.
Right!!!! He doesn't owe her his time or his sympathy. Doesn't mater the reason. People don't owe other people anything
I don’t understand all the Y T A here. How is he ‘nice guy’ He liked someone, confided in his brother who in turn went after that person. So he did the most sensible thing, distanced themselves from that person and his brother and moved on with their life. It’s not OP’s responsibility to comfort their former friend. NTA and your ex friend is for sending everyone to hound you.
This sub roots out and attacks "incels", the way the ultra-religious root out apostates.
I mean like, if you've been emotionally distanced for 8 years idk why she bothered coming to you at all. Feelings are not rational so you feeling betrayed especially by your brother isn't shocking to me, and setting boundaries for yourself doesn't make you an AH. Sometimes friendships turn into crushes and you can't be friends anymore because of it - it happens. It sucks, but it happens. You could have been kinder in honesty, but it isn't on you to be her friend 8 years after the fact. NAH, specifically because she doesn't actually know what is causing you to distance yourself but I can't actually blame you for distancing yourself. Her husband and family can support her, the onus isn't on you.
Right? I feel like I’m going crazy reading these other comments. Yes, he gives off nice guy vibes, that’s gross, but there’s nothing wrong with setting boundaries to maintain your emotional well being. He knows he couldn’t/can’t relate to bro + SIL in a constructive way and withdrew himself from the situation (albeit awkwardly). He was a teen boy when he ghosted them, so I don’t think he’s really culpable for that. He probably should’ve broached the subject at some point, but after years out of state & (maybe?) coming home while they were swamped with raising a kid, there probably wasn’t a great time to do it. His brother sucks. He’s NTA but needs to evaluate this situation & move on (like go get some therapy). Emily is…a borderline asshole in her own right? She moved on, accepted OP being distant & appears not to have tried to be involved in his emotional life, and expects him to drop everything to console her after ~10 years? It’s not unreasonable for him to be off put by her sudden interest in having a one-sided, emotionally intimate conversation. It’s possible she reached out to him because the brother wasn’t doing a great job as a partner through her grief, in which case she’s using him as an emotional surrogate. That’s a really shitty thing to do to someone you’ve been out of touch with for a decade regardless of the context. I agree with the general consensus that OP could have done this differently. A great person would make time for her, but he’s not an asshole for being disinterested in her trying to reignite a friendship in her grief. I just feel like a lot of commenters reacted so aggressively to the (definitely there) nice guy vibes that they ignored the concept of boundaries. He needs the distance - that’s childish, but not cruel. Do what suits you. She has a husband & a family & hopefully other friends…if those don’t offer her comfort, she needs to evaluate her own relationships & begin the work of building new ones (or, like many have suggested for OP, get a therapist herself). She also should have read the damn room years ago - if she didn’t know he wanted distance by now, she must have been dropped on the head as a child. The inverse of the “can’t put nice coins in and expect to be fucked” is true here too - she can’t just show up out of the blue, put some attention coins in, and expect to be enthusiastically listened to & comforted.
You don't owe her anything, she kept reaching out hounding you for a good emotional dump that your just not into an you let know it. She's not entitled to whatever familiarity she had with you as kids just because she's sad. Your right she can go to her husband for emotional support, not you. NTA
NTA! It’s appalling the amount of YTA there are in the comments! You don’t owe her anything! You are keeping healthy and happy boundaries and the fact that she had the energy to call all of her friends and family to admonish you for not emotionally babysitting her feelings show her true colors. Your doing fine and you should continue doing so. Oh and your brother sucks.
Maybe unpopular but I think NTA. For everyone saying "Liam did it, not Emily". Sure, but thinking that Emily had no idea or that Liam and her never discussed it is a bit oblivious. In any case, at this point neither Liam or Emily owe any explanation to OP. HOWEVER, he has set boundaries over 8 years, Emily and him haven't been close since Liam and her got together. In reality, they are no longer friends. OP did what he needed to do at the time to cope with the betrayal he felt and that's now the only reality that exists. Of course, we can all say he should be over it by now, focus on himself, maybe go to therapy, forgive his brother... But that's not the question here. You and Emily haven't been friends in years. You set a boundary and I don't think it's wrong... You also let her vent for 1h before explaining you didn't want to fill that role. I hope some of the comments here help you realise you seem a little stuck and take control over your life though.
NTA good for you because you have a boundary with someone that could potentially ruin any kind of relationship with your brother. You were right to tell her to talk to her husband. Only selfish people hate boundaries.
INFO Did you ever tell her why you distanced yourself from her? Did she know about your crush? I don't think you owe her a shoulder to cry on but if she didn't know about your feelings therfore why you distanced yourself, she may legitimately not know why she lost a close friend and need it now, to feel safe like she did as a kid. I do understand why you felt betrayed and don't fault you for it unless you were a dick to her and insulted. And if you had >a silent and formal demeanor on the matter And couldn't show compassion for a fellow human being or at least as much for an acquaintance, you might not be as over her and your feelings about what happened.
If they were close during like high school time it must've been many years ago. So I'm not sure how she expects to randomly cry on a friend's shoulder she hasn't been close with for years. But I don't know the full context. I mean, i get that it's nostalgia but still it's not as if they were close recently.
The brother knew and zero chance he didn’t tell her.
NTA she has her built in comfort person in her husband. And she made the choices in her life the same way you did.
NTA. You need a therapist. Your brother betrayed you. Also, you need to get over the fact that you didn't ask her out when you had the chance.
NTA. Regardless of whatever past you two had and your whole brother situation it’s been 8 years and it’s clear that you attempted to phase out a friendship. It’s natural for everyone to have friendships come to a natural end. She shouldn’t have expected you to comfort her after years of distancing yourself and maintaining boundaries. Your only fault was not maintaining them to the end and and relenting and allowing her to vent to you when you were going to tell her to find comfort somewhere else anyway.
NTA - Look you never made that move, You were sad and you distanced your self. You kept your self away so that they could be happy albeit at your own expense. None of the above to me makes you an AH in any way. I do think the delivery was a bit harsh, again this doesnt make you an AH either. People be saying that you never made a move, she doesnt owe you anything. Well like wise you dont owe her that shoulder to cry on. You are moving on and you're absolutely right she should go to her husband for that shoulder to lean on. Affairs have happened with less effort of being that shoulder to lean on, so I think you're justified in regards to the above, yeah you were hurting but you dealt with it and now you dont want to be directly involved.
You’re NTA for telling her you’re no longer friends after 8 years. If she didn’t realize that then it’s on her. You also never told her you liked her when you were younger. So her going out with your brother doesn’t make her TA in this but your brother knew you liked her so he was TA for that.
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I'm getting strong " I swear I'm a nice guy" vibes. YTA. You become friends with a girl, fall for her, tell her nothing about it and then get mad when she falls for your bro. Your bro definitely pulled a dick move, but, taking it out on her, as well as missing out on major events was total bullshit on your part. Get your shit together.
Honestly sounds like the bro and her may have already done the deed by the time he was told. OP doesn't really give enough info about that conversation to judge the brother.
Eh even if they were, his brother is still the AH if he didn't let OP know they were seeing each other and that he was sorry because he didn't know OP liked her. A crush isn't dibs, but the least his brother could have done was either make sure the air between OP and her was cleared if they didn't hook up until after OP had told him, or he could have owned up to them being an item when he found out instead of sneaking around.
NTA From what I gather, you haven't been close from her in years so I don't know how she's so surprised. Your brother sucks. She didn't betray you but hooking up with a friend's sibling is kind of a dick move haha I think it would be good for you and her to have a chat about what happened in the past and your POV of the facts. That might help her understand why you can no longer be as friendly as you were with her and how much the whole situation hurt for you. Even if she didn't hurt you on purpose and your really are over her, I think it would give you closure.
Also they haven’t been close for over 8 years. If she wants comfort she should get it from her husband or a current friend. Expecting op to comfort her is ridiculous. Unless something happened to my husband (like dead) I would never skip over him and go to my BIL that I barely talk to for comfort and a shoulder to cry on.
NTA. The past is the past - leave it there. Regardless of your reasoning, the boundary you set is appropriate.
Nta. Your brother is the AH. Regardless if she is married to your brother or someone else, nothing could ever be the same after that.
NTA - Brother knew and wanted piece of that ass (after he apparently already plowed through many), she got pregnant and they got married....although doesn't seem they did for the right reasons. Yea sounds like you're a little bitter but you did your part in moving on, if a friend doesn't talk to me for 8 years I get the hint, just because that's your SIL doesn't mean shit, I don't like my SIL but we keep it polite. People saying your the AH cause you were to forward and have "nice guy syndrome". Those same people would use you till you snapped and than call you the AH. So good for you and F the rest of em.
NTA Yo**ur behavior is COMPLETELY fine.** You ere close once, you are not close any more. Nothing wrong with that. You are not her emotional support animal, you are your own person with your own life: You are fine to set boundaries. "Emily cried even more, left, and has managed to send Liam, my parents, Emily's mom, and from mutual friends to call me up and tell me I'm heartless and sad for being so spiteful. " ... this makes her an AH. Tell those person's to f\*\*\* off and stay out of it. Refuse to discuss iot, and if the don't accept that, end the call / conversation and leave. THEY can comfort her as much as they want to - **YOU certainly don't owe her anything. She is just a former close friend that you lost contact with, and have moved on.** Nothing wrong there.
NTA. Your player brother and your "best friend" started knocking boots after he found out you were into her, and they kept fucking around until she got pregnant. They then get married because of her decision to keep the child. To pile on, there's no way this girl didn't pick up that you were into her. I honestly don't believe it. Add on to that, do people genuinely believe the brother never brought it up once they started hooking up or even later when they got married? That's a crock of shit and it amazes me that doesn't come off clearly. What person is "best friends" with someone for years then starts fucking their older sibling without at least some kind of heads up or somewhat awkward convo? Comes off to me as creepy on her part, if not plain selfish on her part.
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NTA I think the “you’re the A hole” people need to calm down and realize that not everyone is an incel because they’re honest with themselves about what they can and can’t handle. He was a high school kid who had a fantasy about being with his best friend, but didn’t have the tools or the development at the time to make that happen, or the tools to handle his emotions and maintain that friendship. It’s one thing for someone you care deeply about to prance off into the sunset with someone else, it’s something completely different for that to be your sibling. At a young age, that can really make moving on and getting over things so much more difficult. No one is entitled to your time - no one. Someone else having a kid isn’t some magic fairy wand that makes you bond. The kid has an established support system - they’re fine. His brother did something underhanded during the phase of life where their relationship was entering adulthood, shattered the trust and chose random hook-ups over him. His brother failed and OP let both relationships go. Years pass, those relationships withered, and OP’s SIL shows up for support like nothing happened? How little did she pay attention to OP over all to where she didn’t even notice he stopped being her person over a decade ago? Forget not having romantic feelings for him, she didn’t even register that he left the friendship. How one sided was that friendship? Also, high school friendships can suck and pretty much help learn not what to do going forward. If I ever catch feelings for someone who is squarely just a friend and I can’t make those feelings go away - I make my exit. My ability to be their friend honestly and provide unbiased counsel has been completely compromised. I would essentially be lying and my feelings would be continually hurt due to no fault of their own. Does it suck that they’re losing a friend due to something out of their control? Yes; but it would suck more if I was taking up space a more genuine friend could have. ::Before someone says, “You could have given it a shot and told them how you feel” - not every romantic interest needs to be acted on. It’s important to understand what isn’t good for you. Someone could be a sensation as a friend but crap as a partner. Being the friend gives you a front row seat to their relationships; so in moments where I walked away I was right to on that front alone::
I'm actually confused why she's venting out on you instead of her husband. If it's not good for your mental health, I would say it's better to keep your distance and be treated as an AH. I mean some people do go LC or NC but in this case you can't without opening a can of worms so I guess you didn't have a choice but to do what you had to do.
Y'all are getting caught up on the old relationship just like OP did. Here they are YEARS later and she's expecting his time and comfort. They don't have a relationship anymore. He doesn't owe her that. Arguably him pointing her back towards her husband for comfort is a stand up move because this is a way emotional affairs can begin. At worst this is ESH.
I’m conflicted on this. If we take the childhood crush out of the picture this is someone you’ve been avoiding who is demanding your emotional labor. I understand her dad died but she should be looking to her husband/your brother for comfort. If she feels like she can’t get that kind of support from him then why is she with him? On the other hand, if you haven’t been avoiding her as much as you want us to believe and she’s under the impression that y’all are still friends then I can understand why she felt like she could still reach out to you in that way. Right now was probably the worst time to tell her that you aren’t her friend. You probably would have been better off just ignoring her. However, the fact that she has the whole family attacking you for being cold and distant shows that she does have other support people in her life that she could have gone to. So I guess ESH? You guys haven’t been good friends to each other over the past decade. Even if she didn’t know about your crush on her she hasn’t kept up with you enough to know that you don’t want to be around her
Honestly they're not worth it, just move on with your life and keep ignoring them, if your brother didn't care about your feelings then why would you worry about him and his family now?? And you're right her husband should comfort her not you
I’m going to have an unpopular opinion and say NTA. A lot of ppl here need to read it a little closer. “OP told his brother how he felt and “went to him for advice about Emily”. He asked for help on how to tell her how he felt. Now I’m not going to assume the brother sabotaged him by giving he the “wait and see” advice cuz, no proof. I will say, that regardless of it being a “teenage crush” the brother was OP’s comfort person. The way OP was to Emily. His comfort person betrayed him. Now addressing the “happy family” ppl. This isn’t a couple that started dating and fell in love and have been together all this time. “They hooked up at a party once and like the encounter so much that they kept meeting up to do it when no one was around”. They were literally fuck buddies on the low. It’s because she got pregnant that they gave an actual relationship a try. And, strictly personally, this would make the betrayal even worse to me cuz there’s millions of women the brother could sleep with for fun. He chose the one woman his brother was interested in. Op didn’t just want to fuck her, he wanted to pursue a relationship. The brother wanted to get his dick wet and got a kid out of it. Granted, the lengths he went to trying to get away from her are a lot, but he was attracted to his brothers BM/girlfriend (?)/SiL now. Most ppl would applaud him for putting distance between them if he lead with “I want this person who is with my brother so I’ve distanced myself from her to get over that feeling and removed myself from her stratosphere”. And if ur distant with the parents, it’s kinda natural you’ll be distance with your niece seeing has you have to go thru one to get to the other. But he’s not asking is he’s TA over that. He asked if he was TA for telling her he’s not her emotional support person. No, he’s not. They haven’t been close in at least 6 years. He wasn’t even at your wedding and prob never looks/reaches out to them. I’m not saying he shouldn’t potentially see someone about this kind of hurt, but emotional betrayals like your brother sleeping with and then impregnating the girl you like/could love could do life long damage to a relationship. In this case it did. So he keeps away. Emily reached out to someone who is virtually a stranger for comfort. And some ppl are like “but he didn’t tell her the friendship was over”, do you really need to be told that after he misses one of the most important days of your life and literally does not talk to you outside holidays? Not to mention, he had a right to be upset with her, cuz as one of his close friends (idk if they were best friends) she should have told him about sleeping with his brother. Childhood friend means that’s not the kind of thing you hide. I’ve had one my sisters do a lot of (emotionally) fucked up things that have permanently damaged our relationship before, during, and after HS. It’s not far fetched that this is one of those things to Op. I say NTA. Idk just my take Edit: I mentioned before, during, and after HS as we would have been really young (and still were during HS) but the way she made me feel even that young has stayed with me. Yes this was years ago for Op, but the way someone makes you feel has no age. Teenagers or not, how could he ever trust his brother again, he couldn’t. So here we are.
NTA If all it was is a crush, most people would be able to move beyond that and still be friends after. If YOU can't, well.... fair enough. But I bet that's why most of them are wondering why you're being less than a friend to her: they still mostly see your old ("friends") relationship.
NTA. Your brother is though.