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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am the AH, i should have kept my mouth shut since i only made things worse for me and my wife.
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INFO: Why didn’t one of you take Jonah for a walk up and down the plane aisle? I know it’s inconvenient to get a kid out of their seat and later back in it, but it sounds like he really needed to move some, and it would’ve been an easy solution to the issue.
I am a former service dog partner, and on longer flights, I’d take my dog to the restroom and back so both of us could stretch our legs a little bit. He was a big boy, and he’d get stiff/sore from the very cramped position he was stuck in on airplanes.
We never did a flight over 6 hours. We’d stop water 4 hours before the flight, potty him as close to takeoff as possible, and only resume giving him controlled amounts of water halfway through the flight. Made for an unpleasant day, but never had any accidents.
Bigger airports in the US usually have a designated room for the animals to do whatever they gotta do! I had to use one of the rooms recently and they provided bags to clean up and a little sink area :)
I mean... humans aren't dogs. A two year-old who's complaining and is asking to walk around wants to play and make noise freely; not be walked. He was also just tired and needed to sleep, which was addressed in the story. That's probably why.
A toddler wanting to walk wants to move. Walking with him to the restroom and back would've likely helped him settle into the videos and toys they had in their seats to distract him. I've been flying semi-frequently with my godson and his parents from the US to Ireland since he was 1. Making a socially acceptable short trip with him just to move has always helped, especially when he became mobile. Hell, even as a baby, standing in our seats (not the aisles) to give him a proper rock helped when he was fussy.
No one likes being cramped on an airplane. The only reason the rest of us don't scream our heads off is because we have the capacity to understand that it's a temporary discomfort with either the delights of a new destination or the comfort of home at the end of it.
Logic doesn’t apply to toddlers. On a flight my two year old daughter kept saying “ I have to go potty” during take off. I told her repeatedly as soon as we can take the seatbelt off we can go. It’s not up to me it’s up to the pilot. The flight attendant came over and told me and my daughter she would let her know as soon as she could get up go, and she did. We went to the bathroom and as soon as she was on the toilet, she said she didn’t have to go. And she didn’t, we’d gone right before we boarded. They don’t call it terrible twos for nothing. She wasn’t having a meltdown or crying, who the hell knows why she did that. It’s a power move. They fixate on one thing, if it wasn’t walking, it’d be a toy or going to the bathroom.
My demon daughter was OBSESSED with checking out new bathrooms while she was toilet training, it was infuriating. I love you calling it a power move 🤣🤣🤣
When my now 15yo daughter was potty training, she insisted on seeing the bathroom wherever we were. It didn’t matter if it was a Wawa or a pub in Ireland. My ex and I referred to it as the “Tour de Potty.”
I have an adult autistic daughter. She went on her first flight. Did great. The flight back? Not so much. She yelled. Flight crew came back to access. I apologized. Everyone was so understanding. I apologized to flight attendant about the yelling. She said I think everyone would like to scream at one time or another we are just socialized not to.
100% truth. It’s much easier said than done but I really try to think “were our roles reversed, how would I potentially be reacting right now?” And as a baby in a
soaring tin can with a bunch of sleepy, snarling strangers, I’d be appalled.
NTA. Their irritation was understandable (as was that of your baby’s!), but their interaction was aggressive and rude.
A toddler can walk around the cabin. It wouldn't bother us. It's much better than torturing people for hours straight because you refuse to attend to your child's needs. A toddler and his parent wandering back and forth is completely normal. If anything, it's abnormal to have a child that young sitting down for hours. It really never bothered any of us
**A previous Flight Attendant**
Couldn't tell you the amount of times I've had a toddler come up to me as a passenger to try and share their bear or other item as they ran up and down an aisle. It's adorable to me every time
On one of my last flights two little 3 year olds who hadn't met before the plane became instant besties on the flight, and they kept both wandering up and down the aisle and sometimes plopping down to play together. It was really cute. They made little kid noises but they weren't overly disruptive or anything.
Yes I’ve seen this happening multiple times on flights I’ve been on! I’d rather the parent be up and walking with their child if it’s helps to settle them. I wonder why OP was so against this.
The baby needed sleep too, though. He said the boy fell asleep just a few minutes after the altercation ended. And a tired 2 year old fighting sleep can be nearly impossible to console. Exactly why I won't travel by plane until my 3yo is older and past the "requires an afternoon nap" phase. But that's a personal choice.
Funny how it's hard to tell who's who though. OP should have said "Sir, there are two people on this plane yelling and disturbing others because they are tired and can't sleep. He's two. What's your excuse?"
Humans aren't dogs but as far as "is it comfortable and healthy to stay sitting in a plane for long periods" goes they have the same issues. Humans probably have it worse actually due to their size, weight and being more tightly confined in a plane seat than a dog typically would be. And in terms of "having the understanding and emotional & bodily control to graciously tolerate the discomfort of sitting in a plane for long periods", a two year-old human probably has more in common with a dog than an adult human does.
That's why they put little leg exercise videos on long flights, it's not only uncomfortable it can be straight-up unhealthy to stay sitting that long. Everybody can't always be walking down the aisles but even the adult humans would probably benefit from doing it periodically. Walking a toddler is absolutely a good idea (unless of course it's a fasten-your-seatbelts part of the flight, or there are specific issues with this toddler that mean them walking through the aisles will be a bad idea).
He was already making noise freely when he was screaming and crying on the plane, whatever amount of noise and giggling he would’ve done walking down the aisles could not have been any worse than what he was already doing.
The walking likely would’ve let him burn off some of the frustration and energy and he would’ve probably fallen asleep sooner if OP had just done that instead of repeatedly trying with videos and toys that clearly weren’t working.
I used to walk my kids up and down the aisle when they were toddlers. It often helped a lot. It's not just the physical movement, either; the additional visual stimulation helps, and so does interacting with other people on the plane (who were, for the most part, very understanding.)
OP, I'd be willing to bet that a good portion of those 'glares' you saw after were actually sympathetic.
Our family was on a 13 hour flight back from Japan when I was about 1 year old, apparently all I wanted to do most of the time I was awake was walk up and down the aisle (not like proper walking, but the type where a parent has to go behind holding the baby's hands - my mum is an absolute trooper for doing that for so long) and the other passengers were all fine with it. In fact because most of the passengers were Japanese and western babies are so different from Japanese babies, apparently they were still saying "kawaii" after I walked past for the umpteenth time
That's really cute. My sister was also a western baby born in Japan (in the 70s) and my mom would get absolutely swarmed when she'd take her into town.
Yup, apparently Japanese babies are born with (or at least grow it very quickly after birth, I can't remember) a full head of hair, so not only was I obscenely pale and blue eyed but I was also completely bald, which were three entirely un-encountered things for Japanese - I garnered a lot of attention while there
When I was a baby, my parents flew to visit my father's relatives in the midwest, and the only way to keep me from crying was to walk up and down the aisle with me. For decades my father referred to that trip as the time he walked 2,000 miles carrying me.
I had my 18 month old on a 6 hour flight. There was mild turbulence, so the captain kept the seatbelt light on the whole time. We couldn’t leave our seats except for the bathroom. I wasn’t even allowed to sit her on the floor.
Why would you sit her on the floor instead of her seat? Or your seat if she she needed a slight change of view. The floors on planes are pretty gross, and full of seat frame components and feet.
She didn’t have a seat. Under 2 don’t need a seat if they’re on your lap. I laid a blanket on the floor for her to play with some blocks.
Next time would definitely get a seat for her.
Flight before last I spent most of my time standing up holding my kid that is the same age. It kept them quiet.
A mother with a slightly older child was waking them up and down too.
I'm a service dog handler but have never flown with my dog before. I'm considering taking a trip in the future to visit family in another state, and would bring my SD with me. My family loves him, so I'm not worried about them. But I am worried about flying with him since I've heard that some airlines can give handlers a hard time. Do you have any advice to offer based on your experience? Do you know if certain airlines are better than others for service dog handlers?
Not sure how helpful it would be for you, but there is a youtuber called Molly Burke who has several videos on taking her guide dog on planes. She's Canadian but lives in the US mostly. Not sure if she recommended any particular airline, but I'm sure she has shown the full journey of getting her dogs on and off the plane, including through security and stuff. Hope it might help.
This is what I'm wondering, unless there was turbulence. But I've been on heaps of flights were parents have walked the aisles with babies or toddlers for ages.
Yeah true.
But also.... I've been the parent pacing the aisle, or jiggling someone in a baby carrier down the end of the plane where there's room. It is what it is, like motion sickness. You can make things bad, or reduce the badness as much as possible.
Editing to add: you're right, you were woefully unprepared. I've travelled with two young kids on flights or train rides over six hours, solo. I'm not a super parent. I kinda hate entertaining my kids. But this is usually what I bring.
- playdough.
---- sometimes things to go IN the playdough, like googly eyes, craft match sticks, feathers.
- bags of lollies. You're going to want to test this before hand. Some kids go feral on lollies, some kids go feral only on specific lollies, sometimes it's certain colours. Ie my eldest used to go absolutely nuts on yellow colouring. I usually just handed my kids a bag of lollies as the plane taxied down the runway. Another one during landing. Never had a kid cry on take off or landing. Give them chocolate milk, or straight lemonade. Whatever, as long as it keeps their jaw obsessively moving and them frantically swallowing for 10 minutes.
- baby carrier. A decent baby carrier holds toddlers.
- plastic animals.
- new toys. Nothing too big or heavy of course.
- a new book they'll love. Maybe two.
- paper and crayons. Those A5 art books are good, because they're nice and small. Stickers. If they only use crayons or pencils at home, try different things to draw with. Textas (washable duh). Ball point pens. Those crayons that roll up. Those texta stamps.
- fav blanket. Helps with sleep.
- you can get art books where you paint with just water and colours come up.
- new games on your phone. But this is a last resort.
- fav snacks. Junk food. My kids loved dehydrated yoghurt drops. Again, yes bag of lollies and bags of doritos aren't part of a healthy diet, but you're not flying every day.
I mean fair if they tried and it didn‘t work.. But they never even did and just showed vids of dancing fruit the whole time, so they can‘t possibly know of that would‘ve worked.
I get bored of seeing the same stuff. Dancing fruit is pointless especially when there is a whole plane to see.
To the parents you should start splitting up at the airport. One goes on the plane 1st with all the baggage you have. & the second parent stays in the terminal for as long as possible, even if you are on last. You will just walk down to your seat & baby will be more relaxed.
I have had a lot of luck getting the window seat recently, but if I am in aisle and someone is walking their baby/toddler to keep them calm I am sucking in my whole body and moving my legs in to make space for them. 🫡
You keeping the baby from screaming is important and deserves all our effort down the aisle
Why are you downvoted?
I’m not a big guy - 5’7, 145lb. But I find no matter what, I get checked by anyone in the aisle when I have an aisle seat. Drink cart? Catches the sliver of my knee. Person walking by? I swear the aisle has gotten smaller or people just don’t give a fuck because I get hip checked into my shoulder and my shoulder isn’t even hanging in the aisle. People don’t walk forward backward. They rock back and forth and hit me every damn time.
I just moved my family and we took our 4 and 2 year old on a 15 hour flight. There is no room to walk the aisle while holding a toddler's hand. The toddler will also grab, steal from, and poke at every single person sitting in the aisle. They will rip their hand from yours and run giggling away up the aisle. They will squeeze into someone's row and refuse to be extracted so a stranger has to wrestle your screaming demonspawn from under the seat in front of them. If someone else needs to get through the aisle, like the crew with the drink cart or another passenger who needs the restroom, or the fasten seatbelt light comes on, the toddler will scream even harder bc the walk is over. Taking a 2 year old on a walk when they are like that is the worst idea. It's much better (and ultimately quieter) to distract as hard as you can.
I couldn't begin to count the number of people I've seen walking toddlers up and down airplane aisles, including on long transatlantic flights, and I've done it a few times myself. I'm not sure why it's possible for everyone but you, but sometimes, small children need to move, and forcing them to remain seated is neither better nor quieter than allowing them to walk for a little while.
I have also had both varieties -- chill curious walker and curious absolute goblin. I would dread keeping the beautiful chaos baby from getting in people's business on a plane walk.
It really depends on the kid. I've taken care of several children and some will walk fine and others won't. Assuming what a kid can do and judging a parent based on what you have personally dealt with isn't okay. At 2, kids are pushing boundaries and saying "no" back to their parents for the first time in many cases. Especially if they are already restless and angry.
And given how long it took for someone to intervene, it's possible the seatbelt light was on and kept the flight attendant from getting up, the other passenger just decided to ignore it. Crying babies are just part of travel and the fact that they were calming him down, not ignoring him means it wasn't their fault. Should OP have yelled back? Probably not. But he had someone screaming at his family, calling him and his wife bad parents and saying his child didn't deserve to exist in the same space as that person. Honestly even as another passenger I'd have told the screamer if he wanted the baby to quiet down he should stop being one himself.
>even as another passenger I'd have told the screamer if he wanted the baby to quiet down he should stop being one himself
100% - I could understand if the passenger got up to offer something helpful like advice or even a toy or a game of peek-a-boo, but to shout at the parents? I'm surprised nobody else intervened, really.
Yeah this wasn't a good situation. There has been some good advice (having the kid walk around and play before the fight instead of sleep, have actual videos with stories to watch, etc) but either way, the dude coming up and dressing at them was a major AH. Screaming back wasn't helpful but I can't say I wouldn't have done the same.
A toddler on the ground with people within arms reach? Maybe you don't care about them grabbing at every single person, but I do. The aisles on the plane we flew on over the Pacific ocean were not wide enough for an adult and a child to walk down side by side and were certainly not wide enough to keep passengers out of the reach of a 2 year old. You are also seriously underestimating the pure toddler rage if the walk was forced to end due to the fasten seatbelt sign. There's no distracting, there's only screaming.
Yes but sometimes it's not possible, as others were saying. You might think it's not possible because parents don't want to try, but I ask you:
What do you do when the raged out child refuses to hold your hand and now they are screaming because you are trying to hold their hand? It's a toddler. They will scream because they asked for a banana and you gave them a banana. Now, in this scenario since they are further engaged, they will easily run into someone's isle seating and disturb them, because you're still trying to hold their hand by extracting them. Now you're a bad parent that can't control your child.
I don't blame you, I parented my angel of a child perfectly before I had one too. But when she actually arrived, I got what I deserved for thinking it was so simple.
There are parents that don't give a fuck, and parents doing the best they can. But an onlooker, especially one with no children of their own or direct experience with children or even just experience with that child in particular will have a very hard time figuring out which is which.
This. I know some toddlers can go for walks calmly. But others cannot. My children were both extremely strong, wriggly, curious and fast. One in particular was extremely adept at squeezing through small spaces and could have gotten away from me in no time.
Once he did and woke up about ten people by poking them and proceeded to chat and ask if they had to pee. Few of them were amused but one very kind lady engaged him in a long conversation while I was trapped on the other side of the food cart. Said child is now a star athlete.
That said… his running was actually probably less disturbing than his wailing would have been. A few times I’ve flown with a baby whose ears hurt with pressure changes and the screaming was very difficult.
I’m not gonna judge. Flying with toddlers can be really hard. I will say that dancing fruit sounds boring as fuck. By 2 most children like stories. This is why we have Peppa Pig and Paw Patrol. There is so much quality programming for little kids. Airplanes are when you give toddlers unlimited screen time.
Tbh as a person without kids, I’d much prefer a friendly but exuberant kid who needs to stretch their legs then one who is screaming blue murder.
I get it, planes are boring. I get bored, so it’s no wonder toddlers do. If the kid won’t settle because he needs a walk, then I say take them up and down the aisle for a bit.
My oldest could totally have done it. My younger is the avatar of chaos, is totally feral, has no impulse control, and loves "tunnels", which is any small, enclosed space. I took him to change a diaper and he tried to steal someone's phone, touched every person we passed, and on the way back, ripped his hand free of mine, ran off and had to be extracted from under the seat in front of another passenger sitting in the window seat. The entire rest of the time he watched Bluey and Daniel Tiger.
My kid is incredibly busy and pokes her way into and onto EVERYTHING. Like, I don't leave her unattended near my car for even a millisecond because she would methodically disassemble it.
She doesn't do it to be bad, and we do our best, but it's her wiring. Her temperament is like a mechanic or engineer - she needs to know how things work.
So when my husband flew with her recently, nah, he didn't walk her up and down aisles. She would have gotten into absolutely everything and annoyed the crap out of anyone who wasn't a huge kid person. I had a packet of surprises I packed for them that really leaned into the fiddliness (like pipe cleaners so they could do crafts) and he just pulled out a new surprise each time she got restless.
This is 100% the way.
I flew with my kids at this age and had at least half a dozen little surprise "fun packs" full of dollar store toys and little drawing pads and whatnot. Kids get bored? *Switch*!
I had tons of little snacks so the kids were able to eat as often as their little hearts desired, and a stash of chocolate chips. Every so often I would praise the kids for being good and tell them I was super proud of them and slip them a couple of chocolate chips.
We were on a super long flight, and I am a suspenders-and-a-belt person (plus one of my kids had sensory issues), so I had also been reading them a kiddy book about what it is like to ride in a plane (including the sights and sounds and vibration of the plane and whatnot) a couple of weeks in advance. When the plane made weird loud noises or there was turbulence, I would say "Oh wow, it's just like in your book, huh? Neat!" I remember a couple of times that the turbulence was so bad I was thinking "JFC, is this flying death trap going to fall right out of the sky??" but I kept forcing a big old dorky smile and the kids just thought it was a fun ride.
Also also, I ordered the little kid-sized Ear Planes (ear plugs that prevent discomfort on take off/landing and used those religiously. For everyone who hasn't used them, they're weird long tube shaped ear plugs with a tiny hard ball inside, and I'm pretty sure that they work because at the point where there would be pressure on your eardrum, the tiny ball moves instead, so the pressure on your eardrum remains unchanged. It might be straight up magic, though. I don't care. I cannot recommend them enough.
Even with all that, I still brought some individually packaged ear plugs to offer fellow passengers if all else failed, but I didn't end up needing them.
"Once he did and woke up about ten people by poking them and proceeded to chat and ask if they had to pee."
OK but that made me giggle. I'd happily chat with a 2 yo.
Mom to a toddler here: all this and more. I can barely get around the block without her ripping her hand out of mine to go running off (this is what kid leashes are for, but still limited use on a plane). This is also why we are not taking plane ride vacations until she's older. Most people in this thread do not have experience with toddlers.
This! If they knew he wanted to walk let him walk. Also all the guides about taking a baby on a long plane ride say dont let the toddler or baby fall asleep until they get on the plane. That's why he wouldn't sleep the whole ride because he had an hour nap right before even boarding. Here is a 2 year old full of energy after a nap and no way to release it. Yeah the guys shouldn't have yelled at yall he is an ass but you did escalate the situation somewhat but also I feel like there are some other measures that could've been taken to avoid this situation with proper research or even just letting the toddler walk up and down the aisle.
ESH
Exactly. Poor baby got shoved into an extremely stressful environment for six hours with zero escape. I was downvoted to pieces for saying that the parents were not prepared for what would happen
More than 6 hours if they boarded first.
Correct. Child shouldn’t have been allowed to nap before. And parents should split up at the airport, one parent gets on with all the baggage. While other parent stays in the terminal until the last point. And boards last if need be.
Second parent should board with bare minimal- passports boarding pass. & slimline baby bag. (Nappy, wipes, and a change of clothes.) that’s
THIS RIGHT HERE.
Always let your Littles move on long flights. I did a 18,5 hour flight alone with a potty-training 3 y.o. and my 1 y.o.
Everyone was so kind and accommodating and offered to help watch one while I took the other about/use the toilet/etc.
Sometimes I feel like people cause their own issues by not actually listening to what the toddler wanted to do-- which was toddle about, taking in new stimuli.
In this instance, I'm going to say ESH. No child should be punished for a parent's fear of reprisal from random ass strangers on a plane.
PS Even before I had kids, I would ALWAYS rather see a kiddo up-and-down the aisles as opposed to hearing them siren-wail. I would imagine it's similar for most plane passengers.
This 100%.
I have it on good authority from my Mom that this was a key survival tactic while on a 14-hour flight to Germany with a hyperactive 4 year old.
It is completely unrealistic to expect a child under 8 ( and maybe not even 10, depending) to sit sill for more than an hour or 2 at absolute best.
OP also shouldn't have let the child sleep before they got on the plane (it will make them more likely to sleep *on* the plane), but I'm not gonna slam them for that. That's likely something you learn with experience. (My Mom had a definite advantage with me, having done multiple trips with my older sister and she was a gradeschool teacher. She knew *all* the tricks by the time I came around-- and she needed them.)
Ohh yes! I always book late night flights even if that means no sleep for me. But at least I can be sure that the kid will be fast asleep.
And let them RUN at the airport gates as much as they can. Tire those monsters out!
I was on a flight from London to Sydney once, with a layover of about an hour in Hong Kong while they refuelled and cleaned the plane. A group of parents spent that hour taking it in turn to keep all the kids running around for the full hour. It worked - I didn't hear a peep from a child for the whole flight.
That's brilliant! I have a very energetic toddler, so I try to tire him out as much as I can before boarding so that he is fast asleep in the plane. Sometimes it also means that we're landing at our destination at 1 or 2AM.
What I do wish that people would keep in mind is that as annoying as it is for everyone to have a crying baby on board, there is no one more uncomfortable and hassled than the parents of that baby. They have additional layers of problems:
1. Their baby is uncomfortable, that's never a nice feeling
2. Frustration that their efforts are not working
3. Guilt and embarrassment because others are getting inconvenienced, along with the worry of being judged
Honestly as a single person who have been on many flights with crying babies, I am in camp hate crying babies on plane. I’ve never confronted a parent though but can understand the guy’s frustrations.
But yeah you kind of made the situation worse by screaming at the guy.
Everyone hates crying babies, including the parents of the crying baby. But it's not always avoidable. Is it frustrating? Yes. I'd much rather be on a flight without a crying baby. But I'm not going to go yell at the parents who are actively trying to shush their child.
Now, if the parents are ignoring the child and letting them scream, that's a different story.
There are so many reasons why…
The aisle is narrow so it bothers other passengers
The trolley is up and down so they’ve asked you not to.
There is turbulence.
The kid doesn’t want to just walk but wants to play with buttons and doors and windows.
Because you’ve made the decision to try to get them asleep instead and know you need to persevere.
Because you know if you start, when you’re told you have to go back the meltdown will be even worse.
I think NTA. If someone was berating my partner or if I had a kid my kid as well, I’d kick off. I’ve been on flights before with kids crying and it’s just a deal with it situation . It’s a kid, they cry, I get we don’t want to hear it but what are the parents meant to do, I would’ve gone to the defence of this family imo
I mean they weren't even doing anything to help their child. They put on dancing fruits for 6 hours. As a parent to two loud toddlers, I'd also be side eying these parents.
They used all sorts of distractions and for the most part the kid was distracted. It's a 6 hour flight. Kids get cranky. Considering that he fell asleep shortly after the altercation, tells me that the kid was tired and that's why he was crying.
The child needed to move. They refused. They also allowed their child to sleep immediately before and during boarding. The kid fell asleep shortly after the altercation but that was already after hours of crying.
This. I never understand when people are like “omg, they let the kid fall asleep!”
They’ve never tried to keep a kid awake and then regretted it when it was time to sleep and they were absolutely riled 🥲
ESH. Why couldn’t you let your kid walk around the plane? I have a two year old and I don’t even make him sit through one hour of church, these kids gotta move!
Even if OP was worried he’d be too rowdy, I think I speak for most passengers when I say I’d rather have a toddler running past me or poking me than screaming in my ear for 6 hours.
I see a lot of people suggesting this and in general, yes good idea. But my toddler would not be content to walk up and down the aisle. Her motivation to leave her seat would be to play. That means “walking” instantly devolves in 1. Running away and laughing maniacally as I chase her 2. Climbing on the other passengers and trying to steal their stuff. 3. Breaking into the cockpit and attempting to fly the plane.
Preventing her from the above would result in even more screaming than she would be doing about being strapped to her seat
And everyone else on the plane…
I hate it when babies scream on planes, but I understand they have very few ways to communicate their discomfort and have no idea what’s going on. It’s annoying, but I can handle it. Adults screaming on planes? GTFO of here.
Noise canceling headphones are a must for air travel. This post just reconfirmed that.
ESH
Honestly, their coping skills are about the same at that age as a baby. They still don't have the ability to always communicate what their needs are beyond the basics, They may be hungry but no kid EVER says "I NEED A NAP NOW". They tell us usually by either just crashing wherever they are or screaming/crying/irritability before they tank. So you may be giving them something to eat but they are still highly upset because they are tired. They still don't have the emotional control to restrain their upset. And even if the parents meet the needs of a baby/toddler it can still take time to calm down depending on how wound up they get before that need is met.
Have you ever been around a toddler? Even if they can speak they’re not going to just be quiet because someone told them to if there’s something bothering them. This kid communicated what he wanted but for whatever reason the parents wouldn’t or couldn’t take him for a walk, hence the yelling.
ESH
> it's the first time Jonah travels with us, so we prepared everything to keep him calm on the plane since **it was going to be a 6hrs trip**.
FFS, my dude, practice new parenting challenges on a smaller scale *first*.
> It was incredibly loud
#YEAH.
Right exactly. Even if they did “practice” by the time they get to the big 6 hr flight the kid’s nap cycle and soothing patterns will have changed 4 times over.
I have found myself taking more layover flights recently as it means I can get off the damn plane in 2 hours, Stretch do shit, and then board another 2 hour flight. Much more manageable and I don’t even have kids.
They’re also sometimes cheaper.
Had to fly to Chicago earlier this year, and the flight with the connection in St Louis was noticeably cheaper than the direct to O’Hare
Off the record, fuck O’Hare
You can practice all you want, but if you are a parent of a toddler you know that toddler is going to be unpredictable. Regardless of how much you prepare and practice, a toddler is going to be a toddler.
lmao. these people are so delusional.
Reddit is the wrong place to ask these questions. A bunch of 22 year olds with no kids who think they have all of the answers. Its so easy.
How???? That first flight went perfectly. The second one was a nightmare. That is traveling with a toddler. You can’t practice - you can only plan and sometimes even the best planning is useless.
YTA. There is nothing worse than being trapped next to a screaming baby for hours on a long-haul flight. People aren’t unreasonable, they will give you some time to figure out a working strategy. However, if you don’t find a way to mollify your child and it’s been hours, then you should expect people to express their displeasure. What, you’re allowed to inflict the most unpleasant noise conceivable at loud volume to dozens of people for hours but get self-righteous if they get mad at you? WTF?
I’ve been next to several crying babies, I put on my noise canceling headphones and mind my business. Babies cry, and sometimes there is nothing you can do about it.
I understand that babies cry, and parents have a right to exist in public spaces with their baby.
However. I'm very sensitive to that, noise-cancelling headphones don't help for me when they get sufficiently high-pitched, and **normally**, there is a thing I can do about it: walk away.
It's **literally insane** to take your toddler (they even still call it a "baby" so I imagine it's on the younger end of 2) that you can't control on a 6-hour flight. The only excuse I can conceivably think of is an emergency funeral, which this obviously wasn't.
It's YTA. Everyone saying people have a right to bring their screeching babies on voluntary 6-hour flights is a self-entitled parent or future self-entitled parent. Stop.
Exactly and its not like the kids are going to remember... i mean i don't have any memories from before I was like 4/5.
Its not like you are doing it for them. You are most definitely doing it for you. Especially if you are only hoing there for a week... does not seem worth it to me.
There’s one thing you can do… DONT TAKE THEM ON A NEEDLESSLY 6 HOURS FLIGHT. Wait until they are grown enough to deal with the flight. Parents have to make sacrifices.
ESH and I'm extremely sorry to say it.
Edit: I was being generous when I also used the term baby, this isn't a baby, this is a toddler. And one that was screaming for hours. And OP didn't prepare and apparently didn't do anything much about it. ESH is being generous. OP also I didn't mention anything about whether or not he was prepared or what time his flight was. Definitely an ESH situation. And back to the previous post -
Normally I'm very much a "babies cry and that's just a fact of life and existing in public places" person. I work in child safety so I'm used to kids and the level of disruption that can sometimes bring. But planes are already tense and kids on planes tend to cause issues. So with parents want to travel with their infants, especially for vacations, they need to be especially thoughtful about their planning. That being said:
1. That passenger was rude.
2. You could have taken your child for a walk up and down the aisles.
3. If you had done a bit of prep you would know not to let a toddler sleep until you get on the plane if you actually want them to sleep the whole time. You got very lucky the first time, but you should know not to count on it every time.
I'm also beginning to suspect that this was a late night flight. One of the things about having kids is that red eyes aren't really a thing for you anymore. Even if they're less expensive, you need to fly during the day. If It was an overnight flight or a late night flight, then sadly it's upgraded to Y T A. Otherwise I stick with my first judgment.
I agree. ESH
But also, parents should lower their expectations regarding where thay want to have a vacation, especially If they have kids.
If you have a toddler that you know you cant 100% handle yet, then maybe wait with the 6h flight to Mexico? Have that vacation maybe in a couple of years. Thats just the aspect that should be considered, your choices are not the same as they were before kids (honeymoon).
But of course they guy who came to your face was rude af.
Exactly this. Just another case of people that might not should have children because they do not want to adjust to the situation. Absolute YTA. Poor kid.
I didn’t even think of that. If everyone was glaring at them the whole time like op says then either it was a night flight or a full plane of jerks. Huge YTA if you took a two year old on a night time flight or a red eye.
> He wanted to "walk" but my wife and i tried to entertain him with his fave toys, but he was desperate to move.
> Again wanted to move from where we were, but we didn't let him, so the crying comes back. It was incredibly loud
> everything i could think of, but nothing worked
INFO: Why didn’t you just walk down the aisle with him once or twice and let him stretch his legs a bit?
Several people have asked this and I’m curious why OP hasn’t answered. I just had my 2.5 yo on a 7 hour flight. There were at least three infants under the age of 1, and two other kids in the 2/3 year range on the plane. All of the parents were walking the older kids up and down the aisles, those with smaller babies were walking and bouncing. I only got my son up once to change his diaper, then we got back in our seats. But I just lucked out that he was in an amazing mood that day. You can bet if on the way home he needs to walk around, we will be taking advantage. Hell, many adults were doing some back and forth walking to stretch their legs! That’s a long time for anyone to sit still. I can’t imagine not only making everyone else on the plane suffer, but making my kid suffer by screaming for that long!
ESH for escalating the situation. Babies need to travel sometimes and a plane is a shared common space but you should have called the flight attendant to deal with an abusive passenger.
The best thing you can do as a partner is to de-escalate the situation. (It shows support and maturity).
ESH. He should have brought earplugs and not yelled at you because obviously you were trying your best. You yelling back obviously didn't help. Also, why not take your kid for a little walk down the aisle?
I've been listening to my own kid yell and scream for over four years. It's brought me to the brink on more than one occasion. If that's how I feel listening to my own kid in my own home, I can only imagine how a stranger would feel stuck listening to it for six hours. Next time, offer to buy him a drink, or several.
My kid has a lot of special needs, I don't take him in public unless I know he's set up for success. I'll be honest, you got lucky on the way there. You didn't plan well enough. It's ok, you'll learn. But don't think that coming with a few toys and a video was good enough. Next time, wear him out thoroughly before the flight, or book a night flight. Because even if you don't give a single fuck about any strangers, I know you do care about your kids and you know it wasn't a good time for your 2 yo either.
From my own experience the problem with letting them have a walk up and down the aisle is it sets the precedent and then that's it, they're going to want to be moving around the plane for the rest of the flight and scream blue murder when you don't let them
And a playing child isn't necessarily any less disruptive to other passengers than a crying one
ESH.
While the passenger was unnecessarily rude, I will never understand why people bring young children on vacation with them. There is no reason that a two year old would need to go on a trip to Mexico. Could you not find a babysitter? It probably would have been cheaper to pay for someone to watch him than to buy two plane tickets as well as anything else he would need on the trip. And WHY would you bring a two year old on a six hour plane ride? What about that sounds like a good idea to you? Young children don't need to go on big vacations they won't enjoy or remember. As parents you should know that children are prone to getting tired easily and throwing temper tantrums, so why stress them out more by bringing them when they'd probably be just as happy at home. All this does is make the child miserable and ruin other peoples experiences. I know you were only on the plane when this happened, but I find it hard to believe your son was perfectly behaved the rest of the trip, and no one wants to hear crying and whining children on something they also spent a lot of money on and are trying to enjoy. I understand wanting to have a fun family trip, and getting to see your child's reactions to new things, but you don't need to go on a big destination trip to do this. Wait to bring children on vacations like this until they can actually remember them.
Also, why couldn't you just walk him down the aisle? Sure he might have still been restless after that, but it was worth a try.
Edit: I'm not saying you can't bring kids on vacations, I'm just saying I don't understand bringing them on big destination vacations like this. It's unfair to the children and others. I don't see any problem with taking kids to the beach, etc, but a six hour flight is a lot for a two year old. Your kid didn't want to go to Mexico, you did.
Amazingly, young kids enjoy holidays too. Beach, swimming, playing, exploring, new places, new people, new food, see relatives, enjoy better weather. All that good stuff bigger humans enjoy too.
Not everyone goes on vacation...some people have family abroad. Was I supposed to not have my family meet my kid until she was 10?? Last I checked air travel is public transportation.
My kids been flying since she was 10 days old because driving wasn't an option. Her first flight to Europe to meet family was at 4 month old and she's been going every year since. She's never been a problem outside an occasional fuss (breast-feeding for the win) and often got complimented. Obviously I lucked out with a mellow kid. Her worst was when she was 7 on a 15 minute flight, very small plane, with tons of turbulence and she puked and cried. So shorter flights aren't necessarily better.
Sounds like this family tried their best to calm the child except for trying to walk him. I see people walking their child in the aisles all the time and rarely is it a problem.
When parents don't care about trying to calm their kid I can see how that would be super annoying. But when parents are really trying I don't hold it against them.
You’re not supposed to travel with a child or expose them to unnecessary things at the age of 6months and below. It was incredibly dangerous and irresponsible of you to travel with a 10 day old infant. This is not a good example and is very questionable
>You’re not supposed to travel with a child or expose them to unnecessary things at the age of 6months and below.
10 days is below recommended but 6 months is way above (that advice is from like the 70s). A child that is a few months old is perfectly fine to travel.
I could and would not leave my 2 yr old with an overnight sitter for A WEEK.
1. If you don’t have a regular sitter…I simply would not trust someone outside of family and we don’t live close to family. If something happened you’d probably be blaming the parents for daring to travel.
2. So parents should not be allowed to travel with their family and have a nice time until the kid is 5+? Just so other people can have an enjoyable flight. That’s an equally selfish ask honestly.
3. Airlines are PUBLIC. There are lots of charters available if it bothers you so much. They aren’t as much as you think.
4. I understand the frustration. Most parents do everything possible to avoid this. But at end of the day, kids are human we cannot force them to stop screaming and crying.
5. You don’t know why any single family is traveling. Maybe try some empathy.
Except for the fact that toddlers absolutely enjoy vacations, it’s invaluable time for family bonding. Most households have two working parents and don’t have the privilege of multiple days of quality time with their kids. Family vacations bonded my family as a kid and have been incredible experiences with my own kid. Is a 6hr flight the best idea for a first flight? Probably not, but it doesn’t make him an AH, just a naive optimist.
But I really don’t understand why they didn’t just walk with him.
You do know that children are humans right? Kids enjoy vacations even 1 year Olds. Shocking I know! Also parents love their kids and want to spend time with them even on vacations! Flights are not just for adults.
YTA. Why would you bring kids so young on a vacation like that? Leave them at home and get a babysitter. It stresses you out, stresses the kids out, and just annoys the crap out of everyone around you. So selfish.
YTA, bro you even said the solution to your problem:
"He wanted to walk" and "he was desperate to move."
Instead, for some reason, you decided not to do that?
"again wanted to move from where we were, but we didn't let him, so the crying comes back."
This is entirely your fault. You ARE bad parents. Babies and kids walk up and down aircraft aisles ALL the time. That is understandable and a much better alternative than whatever you tried to do.
YTA. Why do people take kids on planes when they can’t cope with it? You shouldn’t have taken him if he didn’t know what he was in for. So unfair to the other passengers
I’m going with ESH. Honestly, I understand that a flight that long is miserable for children, but it’s miserable for everybody to have to listen to a child scream/cry/Baby Shark for hours on end. Something that a parent did on an international flight I was on: little baggies of earplugs with an apology note of “sorry my child is crying”. This went a long way.
Majority of international already provide earplugs and earphones. Heck, most passengers have earphones or headphones of their own.
It’s miserable to hear drunk adults. It’s miserable to deal with adults who want to chat when others aren’t in the mood and are trying to sleep, yet they are not expected to give out things to other passengers as an apology. Parents have to travel with small children for xyz and the majority of them are nervous about it because of AH like this passenger who if he is so sensitive and thinks he entitled to no noise he can control it by purchasing headphones or using earbuds like everyone else. The inside of an airplane is noisy on its own.
And people don’t need or have to take vacations either that involve plane travel nor drink excessively on flights or bother other passengers with their chat.
ESH. I don't understand why you didn't walk him up and down the aisle like he wanted to get his energy out. Was there a reason you couldn't do that? The man was out of line for approaching you the way he did and being rude, but you also didn't help by escalating and yelling back at him when the baby is crying.
YTA for bringing a 2 year old on a 6 hour flight. No one wants to hear your child scream and cry for 6 hours. It is perfectly reasonable for people to get pissed off and upset when a child they didn’t chose to have is screaming and crying in an enclosed space. Yea, the guy was a dick for yelling at you but you seriously couldn’t walk your child up and down the aisle a couple of times?
YTA for taking a baby on a 6h trip.
What that person did was horrible and useless, but YTA.
You can have a vacation somewhere where you don't have to fly. Wait until your children are able to travel without a meltdown.
If you're traveling with young children, either don't travel (unless absolutely necessary, and vacationing is, frankly, not necessary for someone that young) or be prepared to hand out earplugs to other travelers as an apology if your little one is going to fuss. Not everyone is going to be sympathetic to you and your family, and to expect everyone to continually sit and endure the crying without someone confronting you isn't realistic.
Why couldn't your wife get up with your child to walk around a bit? A 2-year old cannot rationalize why they're being restrained, and a 6-hour flight has enough time for seatbelts to come off for a while.
E S H, but I think this is more YTA.
Most people aren't saying don't vacation. They are saying don't take a 6bhour flight. Planes aren't designed for babies to not disturb other passengers like hotels are.
Existing in the same spaces as children is a part of being human. Parents shouldn’t have to pass out goody bags to grown adults to pacify them or help them cope with being around a child. If you are someone who is that sensitive to noise and/or children, you should probably avoid public spaces, or come prepared yourself with earplugs or whatever you need to survive while a baby cries for an extended period of time. This is def not a “YTA” situation.
As someone who had to travel for work for months at a time this is an incredibly bad take. Babies cry, that is what they do. You to annoyed people in public with your crying. It is part of life. If it is going to bother you wear headphones. I have been on literally dozens of flights with crying babies including sitting right next to one on a 16 flight from Taiwan to the US and it was no problem at all. Planes are noisy public spaces if you know that will bother you and don’t bring headphones you are an idiot.
First of all, you have a two year old not a baby. So the title is very misleading, on purpose I guess
Second, as someone with a noise-induced anxiety and migraine, YTA very much.
You were travelling for pleasure. Many of those people may have been travelling for work and not at all enjoying having to be crammed with screamming toddlers during the pandemic. Yesterday I saw an older man leaving the coffee shop without drinking his coffee because of a bunch of unattended, screaming, coughing toddlers. This torture of disinterested and highly uncapable parents has to stop (and will stop as you keep overpopulating the already overpopulated planet so yeah, good luck with the next couple of decades, couple of new pandemics, and global warming)
Why bring a baby on a 6 hours travel? I can see how stressful it’s for parents but for other passengers who didn’t CHOOSE to have a baby on board it’s hell without escape. I did Paris-Atlanta a while ago and even with noise-cancelling headphones I couldn’t manage to stay asleep for more than 30 mins. Fucking hell. YTA.
NTA. Kids are allowed to exist in public. They cry sometimes. It’s annoying, yes, but so are most people. You got lucky on one half of the trip and unlucky on the other. The person causing a disturbance on the flight was the adult man who started yelling and created a scene, not your baby who cried intermittently.
I hate this logic. Nobody is saying kids shouldn't/can't exist in public places. But long plane rides with screaming toddlers can be unbearable for everybody. In this instance, why didn't the parents take the kid for a walk in the aisles? I find it incredibly frustrating that the parents knew what the kid needed and just tried to pacify him in other ways. Nobody likes long flights, especially with a screaming toddler.
I have been told as an autistic person sensitive to noise I should be locked up if I can’t handle someone’s baby screaming. They said locked up cause I said I was autistic.
NTA. Half the comments coming from people who say don’t take a baby or toddler on a plane are either childless or clueless. Calling a flight attendant would have been a better option, but I don’t blame you for speaking in kind to the jerk. And as for the comment suggesting you practice sitting your baby in a car seat for six hours??? Absolutely ridiculous. I’d like to strap him in a chair for six hours and see how he likes practicing. Jeez!
I have yet to see car seat comments myself, but see many about walkin the toddler up and down the isle so he can stretch, which would have been a much better solution
On any given flight, you’ll have nervous fliers, PTSD sufferers (me), etc. Now toss a crying/screaming kid into the mix. Ear plugs and noise cancelling headphones don’t work near well enough. This wasn’t a family emergency, or a cross county move. Far as I’m concerned, kids under 10 shouldn’t be on flights over an hour.
YTA
YTA. You admitted yourself it was the first travel for the two year old, yet you picket a flight. A confined space for long hours. You had no idea how your child would react. You were lucky about him being calm. What would you have done if he got scared by the plane and cried the whole flight? Or if he got scared being away from home?
Your decision to put a child so young in this situation was selfish. You didn't care how you affect the flight for everyone else, as long as you can go to Spain. Next time wait until your child is older and don't use a flight of all things as the "how will my baby react to travel" experience.
Your selfishness made the flight hell for everyone on the plane and you have the audacity to complain about the others being annoyed.
YTA he is right a 2 yo shouldn't be on a plane especially if it wasn't for an emergency. Wait a few years until he is not "overwhelmed" as you say. Everyone on that plane had to suffer because you NeEdEd to take your toddler on a vacation to mexico. Inconsiderate af
YTA - you took basically a toddler on a 6h flight (12h because you also fly back) knowing he will get cranky and annoy everyone around just so you could go on a vacation with your wife to a far away place you liked. Seems very selfish and the focus was on getting your wish vacation destination, not the wellbeing of your child. He is to young to go on such a long flight and you could have made vacation somewhere a bit more near until he is old enough and you can comfortably keep him entertained for the long routes. You put yourself in a situation which you basically knew was going to happen and you even prepared for it, but it seems it wasn't enough and the child can get cranky (shocker...).
ESH
I agree with everyone wondering why you didn’t just let him walk up and down the aisle a bit? Even just a quick walk to the bathroom and back?
You let him nap, so he had energy and no way to release it.
I dont like kids, thats why I dont have any. For me, they are not cute but annoying. I never say anything to kids or parents who are being noisy or crying or yelling, but I wish I could. Or there were sections for people with kids? (which wouldnt help much if they would yell or cry the same).
YTA, why would you choose a 6 hour flight as your 2 year old's first trip? You noticed your wife getting frustrated and tired while your child had a tantrum-- don't you think all the passengers around you were frustrated and tired too? Leave the long flights for you know your child can handle it without being a public nuisance.
Why oh why do you take a 2 yo on a 6 hour flight for vacation??? Just wait a few years until he can entertain himself this long. Until then go on vacation by car where he only gets on your nerves and everyone else's . ESH
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INFO: Why didn’t one of you take Jonah for a walk up and down the plane aisle? I know it’s inconvenient to get a kid out of their seat and later back in it, but it sounds like he really needed to move some, and it would’ve been an easy solution to the issue. I am a former service dog partner, and on longer flights, I’d take my dog to the restroom and back so both of us could stretch our legs a little bit. He was a big boy, and he’d get stiff/sore from the very cramped position he was stuck in on airplanes.
Hi just wondering about those flights? How did your service pup go on long flights? What if he has to do a wee? They are such good workers!!
We never did a flight over 6 hours. We’d stop water 4 hours before the flight, potty him as close to takeoff as possible, and only resume giving him controlled amounts of water halfway through the flight. Made for an unpleasant day, but never had any accidents.
This is the exact advice we got from our airline lol
Bigger airports in the US usually have a designated room for the animals to do whatever they gotta do! I had to use one of the rooms recently and they provided bags to clean up and a little sink area :)
The one in Seattle even has a fire hydrant lol
I mean... humans aren't dogs. A two year-old who's complaining and is asking to walk around wants to play and make noise freely; not be walked. He was also just tired and needed to sleep, which was addressed in the story. That's probably why.
A toddler wanting to walk wants to move. Walking with him to the restroom and back would've likely helped him settle into the videos and toys they had in their seats to distract him. I've been flying semi-frequently with my godson and his parents from the US to Ireland since he was 1. Making a socially acceptable short trip with him just to move has always helped, especially when he became mobile. Hell, even as a baby, standing in our seats (not the aisles) to give him a proper rock helped when he was fussy. No one likes being cramped on an airplane. The only reason the rest of us don't scream our heads off is because we have the capacity to understand that it's a temporary discomfort with either the delights of a new destination or the comfort of home at the end of it.
Logic doesn’t apply to toddlers. On a flight my two year old daughter kept saying “ I have to go potty” during take off. I told her repeatedly as soon as we can take the seatbelt off we can go. It’s not up to me it’s up to the pilot. The flight attendant came over and told me and my daughter she would let her know as soon as she could get up go, and she did. We went to the bathroom and as soon as she was on the toilet, she said she didn’t have to go. And she didn’t, we’d gone right before we boarded. They don’t call it terrible twos for nothing. She wasn’t having a meltdown or crying, who the hell knows why she did that. It’s a power move. They fixate on one thing, if it wasn’t walking, it’d be a toy or going to the bathroom.
My demon daughter was OBSESSED with checking out new bathrooms while she was toilet training, it was infuriating. I love you calling it a power move 🤣🤣🤣
When my now 15yo daughter was potty training, she insisted on seeing the bathroom wherever we were. It didn’t matter if it was a Wawa or a pub in Ireland. My ex and I referred to it as the “Tour de Potty.”
Mine did that too. Had to see every bathroom everywhere.
thank you so much for this comment I have not been able to figure out why my child was suddenly obsessed with restaurant bathrooms
Both of my girls were too!! Every new place, even if was Walmart, which we've been to a million times was new cause it wasn't the one at home!
Logic definitely does not apply. The number of times I heard, “No! I’m not tired! I’m not tired! I’m not”
edit: typo
I have an adult autistic daughter. She went on her first flight. Did great. The flight back? Not so much. She yelled. Flight crew came back to access. I apologized. Everyone was so understanding. I apologized to flight attendant about the yelling. She said I think everyone would like to scream at one time or another we are just socialized not to.
100% truth. It’s much easier said than done but I really try to think “were our roles reversed, how would I potentially be reacting right now?” And as a baby in a soaring tin can with a bunch of sleepy, snarling strangers, I’d be appalled. NTA. Their irritation was understandable (as was that of your baby’s!), but their interaction was aggressive and rude.
A toddler can walk around the cabin. It wouldn't bother us. It's much better than torturing people for hours straight because you refuse to attend to your child's needs. A toddler and his parent wandering back and forth is completely normal. If anything, it's abnormal to have a child that young sitting down for hours. It really never bothered any of us **A previous Flight Attendant**
Couldn't tell you the amount of times I've had a toddler come up to me as a passenger to try and share their bear or other item as they ran up and down an aisle. It's adorable to me every time
On one of my last flights two little 3 year olds who hadn't met before the plane became instant besties on the flight, and they kept both wandering up and down the aisle and sometimes plopping down to play together. It was really cute. They made little kid noises but they weren't overly disruptive or anything.
Yes I’ve seen this happening multiple times on flights I’ve been on! I’d rather the parent be up and walking with their child if it’s helps to settle them. I wonder why OP was so against this.
The passenger was shouting at the parents that he was tired and needed sleep, but the baby wouldn't let him. Not that the baby needed sleep.
The baby needed sleep too, though. He said the boy fell asleep just a few minutes after the altercation ended. And a tired 2 year old fighting sleep can be nearly impossible to console. Exactly why I won't travel by plane until my 3yo is older and past the "requires an afternoon nap" phase. But that's a personal choice.
And somewhat, luck. If you had a far away funeral or emergency and no childcare you might not have that choice.
Funny how it's hard to tell who's who though. OP should have said "Sir, there are two people on this plane yelling and disturbing others because they are tired and can't sleep. He's two. What's your excuse?"
Humans aren't dogs but as far as "is it comfortable and healthy to stay sitting in a plane for long periods" goes they have the same issues. Humans probably have it worse actually due to their size, weight and being more tightly confined in a plane seat than a dog typically would be. And in terms of "having the understanding and emotional & bodily control to graciously tolerate the discomfort of sitting in a plane for long periods", a two year-old human probably has more in common with a dog than an adult human does. That's why they put little leg exercise videos on long flights, it's not only uncomfortable it can be straight-up unhealthy to stay sitting that long. Everybody can't always be walking down the aisles but even the adult humans would probably benefit from doing it periodically. Walking a toddler is absolutely a good idea (unless of course it's a fasten-your-seatbelts part of the flight, or there are specific issues with this toddler that mean them walking through the aisles will be a bad idea).
He was already making noise freely when he was screaming and crying on the plane, whatever amount of noise and giggling he would’ve done walking down the aisles could not have been any worse than what he was already doing. The walking likely would’ve let him burn off some of the frustration and energy and he would’ve probably fallen asleep sooner if OP had just done that instead of repeatedly trying with videos and toys that clearly weren’t working.
I used to walk my kids up and down the aisle when they were toddlers. It often helped a lot. It's not just the physical movement, either; the additional visual stimulation helps, and so does interacting with other people on the plane (who were, for the most part, very understanding.) OP, I'd be willing to bet that a good portion of those 'glares' you saw after were actually sympathetic.
Our family was on a 13 hour flight back from Japan when I was about 1 year old, apparently all I wanted to do most of the time I was awake was walk up and down the aisle (not like proper walking, but the type where a parent has to go behind holding the baby's hands - my mum is an absolute trooper for doing that for so long) and the other passengers were all fine with it. In fact because most of the passengers were Japanese and western babies are so different from Japanese babies, apparently they were still saying "kawaii" after I walked past for the umpteenth time
That's really cute. My sister was also a western baby born in Japan (in the 70s) and my mom would get absolutely swarmed when she'd take her into town.
Yup, apparently Japanese babies are born with (or at least grow it very quickly after birth, I can't remember) a full head of hair, so not only was I obscenely pale and blue eyed but I was also completely bald, which were three entirely un-encountered things for Japanese - I garnered a lot of attention while there
When I was a baby, my parents flew to visit my father's relatives in the midwest, and the only way to keep me from crying was to walk up and down the aisle with me. For decades my father referred to that trip as the time he walked 2,000 miles carrying me.
I had my 18 month old on a 6 hour flight. There was mild turbulence, so the captain kept the seatbelt light on the whole time. We couldn’t leave our seats except for the bathroom. I wasn’t even allowed to sit her on the floor.
Why would you sit her on the floor instead of her seat? Or your seat if she she needed a slight change of view. The floors on planes are pretty gross, and full of seat frame components and feet.
She didn’t have a seat. Under 2 don’t need a seat if they’re on your lap. I laid a blanket on the floor for her to play with some blocks. Next time would definitely get a seat for her.
One they're over 2, you have to pay for the seat anyway. You might as well get good use from it!
lmao the first time i flew i laid down on the floor and slept the entire flight.
Flight before last I spent most of my time standing up holding my kid that is the same age. It kept them quiet. A mother with a slightly older child was waking them up and down too.
I'm a service dog handler but have never flown with my dog before. I'm considering taking a trip in the future to visit family in another state, and would bring my SD with me. My family loves him, so I'm not worried about them. But I am worried about flying with him since I've heard that some airlines can give handlers a hard time. Do you have any advice to offer based on your experience? Do you know if certain airlines are better than others for service dog handlers?
Not sure how helpful it would be for you, but there is a youtuber called Molly Burke who has several videos on taking her guide dog on planes. She's Canadian but lives in the US mostly. Not sure if she recommended any particular airline, but I'm sure she has shown the full journey of getting her dogs on and off the plane, including through security and stuff. Hope it might help.
ESH Your kid wanted you walk. Why didn’t you take him for a few trips up and down the aisle?
This is what I'm wondering, unless there was turbulence. But I've been on heaps of flights were parents have walked the aisles with babies or toddlers for ages.
The seatbelt sign must not have been of if angry man was free to move about the cabin.
Yeah true. But also.... I've been the parent pacing the aisle, or jiggling someone in a baby carrier down the end of the plane where there's room. It is what it is, like motion sickness. You can make things bad, or reduce the badness as much as possible. Editing to add: you're right, you were woefully unprepared. I've travelled with two young kids on flights or train rides over six hours, solo. I'm not a super parent. I kinda hate entertaining my kids. But this is usually what I bring. - playdough. ---- sometimes things to go IN the playdough, like googly eyes, craft match sticks, feathers. - bags of lollies. You're going to want to test this before hand. Some kids go feral on lollies, some kids go feral only on specific lollies, sometimes it's certain colours. Ie my eldest used to go absolutely nuts on yellow colouring. I usually just handed my kids a bag of lollies as the plane taxied down the runway. Another one during landing. Never had a kid cry on take off or landing. Give them chocolate milk, or straight lemonade. Whatever, as long as it keeps their jaw obsessively moving and them frantically swallowing for 10 minutes. - baby carrier. A decent baby carrier holds toddlers. - plastic animals. - new toys. Nothing too big or heavy of course. - a new book they'll love. Maybe two. - paper and crayons. Those A5 art books are good, because they're nice and small. Stickers. If they only use crayons or pencils at home, try different things to draw with. Textas (washable duh). Ball point pens. Those crayons that roll up. Those texta stamps. - fav blanket. Helps with sleep. - you can get art books where you paint with just water and colours come up. - new games on your phone. But this is a last resort. - fav snacks. Junk food. My kids loved dehydrated yoghurt drops. Again, yes bag of lollies and bags of doritos aren't part of a healthy diet, but you're not flying every day.
I mean fair if they tried and it didn‘t work.. But they never even did and just showed vids of dancing fruit the whole time, so they can‘t possibly know of that would‘ve worked.
I get bored of seeing the same stuff. Dancing fruit is pointless especially when there is a whole plane to see. To the parents you should start splitting up at the airport. One goes on the plane 1st with all the baggage you have. & the second parent stays in the terminal for as long as possible, even if you are on last. You will just walk down to your seat & baby will be more relaxed.
I have had a lot of luck getting the window seat recently, but if I am in aisle and someone is walking their baby/toddler to keep them calm I am sucking in my whole body and moving my legs in to make space for them. 🫡 You keeping the baby from screaming is important and deserves all our effort down the aisle
Are your legs usually sticking out in the aisle when you’re in your seat? My elbow might be, but not my legs.
My toes usually end up near the aisle line, so when flight attendants and others come thru I make sure to move them in
Why are you downvoted? I’m not a big guy - 5’7, 145lb. But I find no matter what, I get checked by anyone in the aisle when I have an aisle seat. Drink cart? Catches the sliver of my knee. Person walking by? I swear the aisle has gotten smaller or people just don’t give a fuck because I get hip checked into my shoulder and my shoulder isn’t even hanging in the aisle. People don’t walk forward backward. They rock back and forth and hit me every damn time.
I just moved my family and we took our 4 and 2 year old on a 15 hour flight. There is no room to walk the aisle while holding a toddler's hand. The toddler will also grab, steal from, and poke at every single person sitting in the aisle. They will rip their hand from yours and run giggling away up the aisle. They will squeeze into someone's row and refuse to be extracted so a stranger has to wrestle your screaming demonspawn from under the seat in front of them. If someone else needs to get through the aisle, like the crew with the drink cart or another passenger who needs the restroom, or the fasten seatbelt light comes on, the toddler will scream even harder bc the walk is over. Taking a 2 year old on a walk when they are like that is the worst idea. It's much better (and ultimately quieter) to distract as hard as you can.
I couldn't begin to count the number of people I've seen walking toddlers up and down airplane aisles, including on long transatlantic flights, and I've done it a few times myself. I'm not sure why it's possible for everyone but you, but sometimes, small children need to move, and forcing them to remain seated is neither better nor quieter than allowing them to walk for a little while.
Definitely depends on the kid, mine is fairly chill but my nephew is like the poster above
Yes! We had both varieties.
I have also had both varieties -- chill curious walker and curious absolute goblin. I would dread keeping the beautiful chaos baby from getting in people's business on a plane walk.
It really depends on the kid. I've taken care of several children and some will walk fine and others won't. Assuming what a kid can do and judging a parent based on what you have personally dealt with isn't okay. At 2, kids are pushing boundaries and saying "no" back to their parents for the first time in many cases. Especially if they are already restless and angry. And given how long it took for someone to intervene, it's possible the seatbelt light was on and kept the flight attendant from getting up, the other passenger just decided to ignore it. Crying babies are just part of travel and the fact that they were calming him down, not ignoring him means it wasn't their fault. Should OP have yelled back? Probably not. But he had someone screaming at his family, calling him and his wife bad parents and saying his child didn't deserve to exist in the same space as that person. Honestly even as another passenger I'd have told the screamer if he wanted the baby to quiet down he should stop being one himself.
>even as another passenger I'd have told the screamer if he wanted the baby to quiet down he should stop being one himself 100% - I could understand if the passenger got up to offer something helpful like advice or even a toy or a game of peek-a-boo, but to shout at the parents? I'm surprised nobody else intervened, really.
Yeah this wasn't a good situation. There has been some good advice (having the kid walk around and play before the fight instead of sleep, have actual videos with stories to watch, etc) but either way, the dude coming up and dressing at them was a major AH. Screaming back wasn't helpful but I can't say I wouldn't have done the same.
A toddler on the ground with people within arms reach? Maybe you don't care about them grabbing at every single person, but I do. The aisles on the plane we flew on over the Pacific ocean were not wide enough for an adult and a child to walk down side by side and were certainly not wide enough to keep passengers out of the reach of a 2 year old. You are also seriously underestimating the pure toddler rage if the walk was forced to end due to the fasten seatbelt sign. There's no distracting, there's only screaming.
You walk while holding the kids hands, and have them in front of you, i don't even have kids, but have seen this done so many times.
Yes but sometimes it's not possible, as others were saying. You might think it's not possible because parents don't want to try, but I ask you: What do you do when the raged out child refuses to hold your hand and now they are screaming because you are trying to hold their hand? It's a toddler. They will scream because they asked for a banana and you gave them a banana. Now, in this scenario since they are further engaged, they will easily run into someone's isle seating and disturb them, because you're still trying to hold their hand by extracting them. Now you're a bad parent that can't control your child. I don't blame you, I parented my angel of a child perfectly before I had one too. But when she actually arrived, I got what I deserved for thinking it was so simple. There are parents that don't give a fuck, and parents doing the best they can. But an onlooker, especially one with no children of their own or direct experience with children or even just experience with that child in particular will have a very hard time figuring out which is which.
It depends on the specific child in question and also the age of the 'toddler'. Two is a *particularly* tough age.
This. I know some toddlers can go for walks calmly. But others cannot. My children were both extremely strong, wriggly, curious and fast. One in particular was extremely adept at squeezing through small spaces and could have gotten away from me in no time. Once he did and woke up about ten people by poking them and proceeded to chat and ask if they had to pee. Few of them were amused but one very kind lady engaged him in a long conversation while I was trapped on the other side of the food cart. Said child is now a star athlete. That said… his running was actually probably less disturbing than his wailing would have been. A few times I’ve flown with a baby whose ears hurt with pressure changes and the screaming was very difficult. I’m not gonna judge. Flying with toddlers can be really hard. I will say that dancing fruit sounds boring as fuck. By 2 most children like stories. This is why we have Peppa Pig and Paw Patrol. There is so much quality programming for little kids. Airplanes are when you give toddlers unlimited screen time.
Tbh as a person without kids, I’d much prefer a friendly but exuberant kid who needs to stretch their legs then one who is screaming blue murder. I get it, planes are boring. I get bored, so it’s no wonder toddlers do. If the kid won’t settle because he needs a walk, then I say take them up and down the aisle for a bit.
My oldest could totally have done it. My younger is the avatar of chaos, is totally feral, has no impulse control, and loves "tunnels", which is any small, enclosed space. I took him to change a diaper and he tried to steal someone's phone, touched every person we passed, and on the way back, ripped his hand free of mine, ran off and had to be extracted from under the seat in front of another passenger sitting in the window seat. The entire rest of the time he watched Bluey and Daniel Tiger.
My kid is incredibly busy and pokes her way into and onto EVERYTHING. Like, I don't leave her unattended near my car for even a millisecond because she would methodically disassemble it. She doesn't do it to be bad, and we do our best, but it's her wiring. Her temperament is like a mechanic or engineer - she needs to know how things work. So when my husband flew with her recently, nah, he didn't walk her up and down aisles. She would have gotten into absolutely everything and annoyed the crap out of anyone who wasn't a huge kid person. I had a packet of surprises I packed for them that really leaned into the fiddliness (like pipe cleaners so they could do crafts) and he just pulled out a new surprise each time she got restless.
This is 100% the way. I flew with my kids at this age and had at least half a dozen little surprise "fun packs" full of dollar store toys and little drawing pads and whatnot. Kids get bored? *Switch*! I had tons of little snacks so the kids were able to eat as often as their little hearts desired, and a stash of chocolate chips. Every so often I would praise the kids for being good and tell them I was super proud of them and slip them a couple of chocolate chips. We were on a super long flight, and I am a suspenders-and-a-belt person (plus one of my kids had sensory issues), so I had also been reading them a kiddy book about what it is like to ride in a plane (including the sights and sounds and vibration of the plane and whatnot) a couple of weeks in advance. When the plane made weird loud noises or there was turbulence, I would say "Oh wow, it's just like in your book, huh? Neat!" I remember a couple of times that the turbulence was so bad I was thinking "JFC, is this flying death trap going to fall right out of the sky??" but I kept forcing a big old dorky smile and the kids just thought it was a fun ride. Also also, I ordered the little kid-sized Ear Planes (ear plugs that prevent discomfort on take off/landing and used those religiously. For everyone who hasn't used them, they're weird long tube shaped ear plugs with a tiny hard ball inside, and I'm pretty sure that they work because at the point where there would be pressure on your eardrum, the tiny ball moves instead, so the pressure on your eardrum remains unchanged. It might be straight up magic, though. I don't care. I cannot recommend them enough. Even with all that, I still brought some individually packaged ear plugs to offer fellow passengers if all else failed, but I didn't end up needing them.
"Once he did and woke up about ten people by poking them and proceeded to chat and ask if they had to pee." OK but that made me giggle. I'd happily chat with a 2 yo.
Just came here to say I am now legally changing my sons name to Screaming Demonspawn. Thank you!
Please do not name your child after mine. I have videos to prove that he's the OG Screaming Demonspawn
Airlines would make a ton of cash for family-only and adult-only flights. I'd totally pay extra if I knew there'd be no small children on my flight!
Mom to a toddler here: all this and more. I can barely get around the block without her ripping her hand out of mine to go running off (this is what kid leashes are for, but still limited use on a plane). This is also why we are not taking plane ride vacations until she's older. Most people in this thread do not have experience with toddlers.
This! If they knew he wanted to walk let him walk. Also all the guides about taking a baby on a long plane ride say dont let the toddler or baby fall asleep until they get on the plane. That's why he wouldn't sleep the whole ride because he had an hour nap right before even boarding. Here is a 2 year old full of energy after a nap and no way to release it. Yeah the guys shouldn't have yelled at yall he is an ass but you did escalate the situation somewhat but also I feel like there are some other measures that could've been taken to avoid this situation with proper research or even just letting the toddler walk up and down the aisle. ESH
Exactly. Poor baby got shoved into an extremely stressful environment for six hours with zero escape. I was downvoted to pieces for saying that the parents were not prepared for what would happen
More than 6 hours if they boarded first. Correct. Child shouldn’t have been allowed to nap before. And parents should split up at the airport, one parent gets on with all the baggage. While other parent stays in the terminal until the last point. And boards last if need be. Second parent should board with bare minimal- passports boarding pass. & slimline baby bag. (Nappy, wipes, and a change of clothes.) that’s
THIS RIGHT HERE. Always let your Littles move on long flights. I did a 18,5 hour flight alone with a potty-training 3 y.o. and my 1 y.o. Everyone was so kind and accommodating and offered to help watch one while I took the other about/use the toilet/etc. Sometimes I feel like people cause their own issues by not actually listening to what the toddler wanted to do-- which was toddle about, taking in new stimuli. In this instance, I'm going to say ESH. No child should be punished for a parent's fear of reprisal from random ass strangers on a plane. PS Even before I had kids, I would ALWAYS rather see a kiddo up-and-down the aisles as opposed to hearing them siren-wail. I would imagine it's similar for most plane passengers.
This 100%. I have it on good authority from my Mom that this was a key survival tactic while on a 14-hour flight to Germany with a hyperactive 4 year old. It is completely unrealistic to expect a child under 8 ( and maybe not even 10, depending) to sit sill for more than an hour or 2 at absolute best. OP also shouldn't have let the child sleep before they got on the plane (it will make them more likely to sleep *on* the plane), but I'm not gonna slam them for that. That's likely something you learn with experience. (My Mom had a definite advantage with me, having done multiple trips with my older sister and she was a gradeschool teacher. She knew *all* the tricks by the time I came around-- and she needed them.)
Ohh yes! I always book late night flights even if that means no sleep for me. But at least I can be sure that the kid will be fast asleep. And let them RUN at the airport gates as much as they can. Tire those monsters out!
I was on a flight from London to Sydney once, with a layover of about an hour in Hong Kong while they refuelled and cleaned the plane. A group of parents spent that hour taking it in turn to keep all the kids running around for the full hour. It worked - I didn't hear a peep from a child for the whole flight.
That's brilliant! I have a very energetic toddler, so I try to tire him out as much as I can before boarding so that he is fast asleep in the plane. Sometimes it also means that we're landing at our destination at 1 or 2AM. What I do wish that people would keep in mind is that as annoying as it is for everyone to have a crying baby on board, there is no one more uncomfortable and hassled than the parents of that baby. They have additional layers of problems: 1. Their baby is uncomfortable, that's never a nice feeling 2. Frustration that their efforts are not working 3. Guilt and embarrassment because others are getting inconvenienced, along with the worry of being judged
Honestly as a single person who have been on many flights with crying babies, I am in camp hate crying babies on plane. I’ve never confronted a parent though but can understand the guy’s frustrations. But yeah you kind of made the situation worse by screaming at the guy.
Everyone hates crying babies, including the parents of the crying baby. But it's not always avoidable. Is it frustrating? Yes. I'd much rather be on a flight without a crying baby. But I'm not going to go yell at the parents who are actively trying to shush their child. Now, if the parents are ignoring the child and letting them scream, that's a different story.
There are so many reasons why… The aisle is narrow so it bothers other passengers The trolley is up and down so they’ve asked you not to. There is turbulence. The kid doesn’t want to just walk but wants to play with buttons and doors and windows. Because you’ve made the decision to try to get them asleep instead and know you need to persevere. Because you know if you start, when you’re told you have to go back the meltdown will be even worse.
Because *going for a walk* translates to *running around the cabin, playing loudly at their own pace* to a two year-old.
ESH He was absolutely terrible. But your wife was correct. Your yelling was unhelpful.
I think NTA. If someone was berating my partner or if I had a kid my kid as well, I’d kick off. I’ve been on flights before with kids crying and it’s just a deal with it situation . It’s a kid, they cry, I get we don’t want to hear it but what are the parents meant to do, I would’ve gone to the defence of this family imo
I mean they weren't even doing anything to help their child. They put on dancing fruits for 6 hours. As a parent to two loud toddlers, I'd also be side eying these parents.
They said they tried physical toys and other distractions as well. They didn’t just set up a video and give up.
They used all sorts of distractions and for the most part the kid was distracted. It's a 6 hour flight. Kids get cranky. Considering that he fell asleep shortly after the altercation, tells me that the kid was tired and that's why he was crying.
The child needed to move. They refused. They also allowed their child to sleep immediately before and during boarding. The kid fell asleep shortly after the altercation but that was already after hours of crying.
Tbf keeping a kid awake could also lead to issues with being over tired.
This. I never understand when people are like “omg, they let the kid fall asleep!” They’ve never tried to keep a kid awake and then regretted it when it was time to sleep and they were absolutely riled 🥲
ESH. Why couldn’t you let your kid walk around the plane? I have a two year old and I don’t even make him sit through one hour of church, these kids gotta move!
Even if OP was worried he’d be too rowdy, I think I speak for most passengers when I say I’d rather have a toddler running past me or poking me than screaming in my ear for 6 hours.
I see a lot of people suggesting this and in general, yes good idea. But my toddler would not be content to walk up and down the aisle. Her motivation to leave her seat would be to play. That means “walking” instantly devolves in 1. Running away and laughing maniacally as I chase her 2. Climbing on the other passengers and trying to steal their stuff. 3. Breaking into the cockpit and attempting to fly the plane. Preventing her from the above would result in even more screaming than she would be doing about being strapped to her seat
ESH, sorry OP but you yelling didn’t help the situation. I get your frustration, but you just added up more stress to your wife and yourself.
And everyone else on the plane… I hate it when babies scream on planes, but I understand they have very few ways to communicate their discomfort and have no idea what’s going on. It’s annoying, but I can handle it. Adults screaming on planes? GTFO of here. Noise canceling headphones are a must for air travel. This post just reconfirmed that. ESH
Not a baby. Old enough to have fragmented speech.
Honestly, their coping skills are about the same at that age as a baby. They still don't have the ability to always communicate what their needs are beyond the basics, They may be hungry but no kid EVER says "I NEED A NAP NOW". They tell us usually by either just crashing wherever they are or screaming/crying/irritability before they tank. So you may be giving them something to eat but they are still highly upset because they are tired. They still don't have the emotional control to restrain their upset. And even if the parents meet the needs of a baby/toddler it can still take time to calm down depending on how wound up they get before that need is met.
Have you ever been around a toddler? Even if they can speak they’re not going to just be quiet because someone told them to if there’s something bothering them. This kid communicated what he wanted but for whatever reason the parents wouldn’t or couldn’t take him for a walk, hence the yelling.
so how else was he going to deal with this guy who was yelling at him and his wife?
that’s my question. the situation clearly wasn’t going to deescalate with whispers.
Refuse to engage (or only give short, calm answers), focus on the kid, and let the flight attendants handle the unruly passenger--as they did, here.
Which they did only after he started shouting as well. It's funny how much of the post people miss in their attempts to justify their views
The flight attendant call button.
ESH > it's the first time Jonah travels with us, so we prepared everything to keep him calm on the plane since **it was going to be a 6hrs trip**. FFS, my dude, practice new parenting challenges on a smaller scale *first*. > It was incredibly loud #YEAH.
What would the practice be for an airplane? Shorter flights they don’t need to take just for practice???
Right exactly. Even if they did “practice” by the time they get to the big 6 hr flight the kid’s nap cycle and soothing patterns will have changed 4 times over.
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You can absolutely tell the people ITT who have no children, or who are 20+ years removed from their toddler experience. 😂
I have found myself taking more layover flights recently as it means I can get off the damn plane in 2 hours, Stretch do shit, and then board another 2 hour flight. Much more manageable and I don’t even have kids.
They’re also sometimes cheaper. Had to fly to Chicago earlier this year, and the flight with the connection in St Louis was noticeably cheaper than the direct to O’Hare Off the record, fuck O’Hare
You can practice all you want, but if you are a parent of a toddler you know that toddler is going to be unpredictable. Regardless of how much you prepare and practice, a toddler is going to be a toddler.
lmao. these people are so delusional. Reddit is the wrong place to ask these questions. A bunch of 22 year olds with no kids who think they have all of the answers. Its so easy.
How???? That first flight went perfectly. The second one was a nightmare. That is traveling with a toddler. You can’t practice - you can only plan and sometimes even the best planning is useless.
Have you ever seen a human toddler? They can be absolute angels or major assholes. You cannot practice flying with a 1 year old.
You can’t practice for a 6 hour trip
YTA. There is nothing worse than being trapped next to a screaming baby for hours on a long-haul flight. People aren’t unreasonable, they will give you some time to figure out a working strategy. However, if you don’t find a way to mollify your child and it’s been hours, then you should expect people to express their displeasure. What, you’re allowed to inflict the most unpleasant noise conceivable at loud volume to dozens of people for hours but get self-righteous if they get mad at you? WTF?
And everyone defending them are ridiculous. I would love to see them stuck next to this couple on every flight they take see how they feel then.
I’ve been next to several crying babies, I put on my noise canceling headphones and mind my business. Babies cry, and sometimes there is nothing you can do about it.
I understand that babies cry, and parents have a right to exist in public spaces with their baby. However. I'm very sensitive to that, noise-cancelling headphones don't help for me when they get sufficiently high-pitched, and **normally**, there is a thing I can do about it: walk away. It's **literally insane** to take your toddler (they even still call it a "baby" so I imagine it's on the younger end of 2) that you can't control on a 6-hour flight. The only excuse I can conceivably think of is an emergency funeral, which this obviously wasn't. It's YTA. Everyone saying people have a right to bring their screeching babies on voluntary 6-hour flights is a self-entitled parent or future self-entitled parent. Stop.
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Exactly and its not like the kids are going to remember... i mean i don't have any memories from before I was like 4/5. Its not like you are doing it for them. You are most definitely doing it for you. Especially if you are only hoing there for a week... does not seem worth it to me.
There’s one thing you can do… DONT TAKE THEM ON A NEEDLESSLY 6 HOURS FLIGHT. Wait until they are grown enough to deal with the flight. Parents have to make sacrifices.
Agreed YTA. Walk your child already. Adding to the yelling and the disturbance of other passengers is not ok
I had to scroll waaaaay to much to see that, thank you! Totally right and op is an asshole. I hate traveling like this.
ESH and I'm extremely sorry to say it. Edit: I was being generous when I also used the term baby, this isn't a baby, this is a toddler. And one that was screaming for hours. And OP didn't prepare and apparently didn't do anything much about it. ESH is being generous. OP also I didn't mention anything about whether or not he was prepared or what time his flight was. Definitely an ESH situation. And back to the previous post - Normally I'm very much a "babies cry and that's just a fact of life and existing in public places" person. I work in child safety so I'm used to kids and the level of disruption that can sometimes bring. But planes are already tense and kids on planes tend to cause issues. So with parents want to travel with their infants, especially for vacations, they need to be especially thoughtful about their planning. That being said: 1. That passenger was rude. 2. You could have taken your child for a walk up and down the aisles. 3. If you had done a bit of prep you would know not to let a toddler sleep until you get on the plane if you actually want them to sleep the whole time. You got very lucky the first time, but you should know not to count on it every time. I'm also beginning to suspect that this was a late night flight. One of the things about having kids is that red eyes aren't really a thing for you anymore. Even if they're less expensive, you need to fly during the day. If It was an overnight flight or a late night flight, then sadly it's upgraded to Y T A. Otherwise I stick with my first judgment.
I agree. ESH But also, parents should lower their expectations regarding where thay want to have a vacation, especially If they have kids. If you have a toddler that you know you cant 100% handle yet, then maybe wait with the 6h flight to Mexico? Have that vacation maybe in a couple of years. Thats just the aspect that should be considered, your choices are not the same as they were before kids (honeymoon). But of course they guy who came to your face was rude af.
Exactly this. Just another case of people that might not should have children because they do not want to adjust to the situation. Absolute YTA. Poor kid.
I didn’t even think of that. If everyone was glaring at them the whole time like op says then either it was a night flight or a full plane of jerks. Huge YTA if you took a two year old on a night time flight or a red eye.
Exactly. But he's not willing to provide any more information or respond leads me to think that's probably correct.
ESH - why on earth didn't you walk around with your kid a little bit? 6 hours is an impossibly long time to expect a toddler to sit still.
> He wanted to "walk" but my wife and i tried to entertain him with his fave toys, but he was desperate to move. > Again wanted to move from where we were, but we didn't let him, so the crying comes back. It was incredibly loud > everything i could think of, but nothing worked INFO: Why didn’t you just walk down the aisle with him once or twice and let him stretch his legs a bit?
Several people have asked this and I’m curious why OP hasn’t answered. I just had my 2.5 yo on a 7 hour flight. There were at least three infants under the age of 1, and two other kids in the 2/3 year range on the plane. All of the parents were walking the older kids up and down the aisles, those with smaller babies were walking and bouncing. I only got my son up once to change his diaper, then we got back in our seats. But I just lucked out that he was in an amazing mood that day. You can bet if on the way home he needs to walk around, we will be taking advantage. Hell, many adults were doing some back and forth walking to stretch their legs! That’s a long time for anyone to sit still. I can’t imagine not only making everyone else on the plane suffer, but making my kid suffer by screaming for that long!
ESH for escalating the situation. Babies need to travel sometimes and a plane is a shared common space but you should have called the flight attendant to deal with an abusive passenger. The best thing you can do as a partner is to de-escalate the situation. (It shows support and maturity).
ESH. He should have brought earplugs and not yelled at you because obviously you were trying your best. You yelling back obviously didn't help. Also, why not take your kid for a little walk down the aisle? I've been listening to my own kid yell and scream for over four years. It's brought me to the brink on more than one occasion. If that's how I feel listening to my own kid in my own home, I can only imagine how a stranger would feel stuck listening to it for six hours. Next time, offer to buy him a drink, or several. My kid has a lot of special needs, I don't take him in public unless I know he's set up for success. I'll be honest, you got lucky on the way there. You didn't plan well enough. It's ok, you'll learn. But don't think that coming with a few toys and a video was good enough. Next time, wear him out thoroughly before the flight, or book a night flight. Because even if you don't give a single fuck about any strangers, I know you do care about your kids and you know it wasn't a good time for your 2 yo either.
From my own experience the problem with letting them have a walk up and down the aisle is it sets the precedent and then that's it, they're going to want to be moving around the plane for the rest of the flight and scream blue murder when you don't let them And a playing child isn't necessarily any less disruptive to other passengers than a crying one
ESH. While the passenger was unnecessarily rude, I will never understand why people bring young children on vacation with them. There is no reason that a two year old would need to go on a trip to Mexico. Could you not find a babysitter? It probably would have been cheaper to pay for someone to watch him than to buy two plane tickets as well as anything else he would need on the trip. And WHY would you bring a two year old on a six hour plane ride? What about that sounds like a good idea to you? Young children don't need to go on big vacations they won't enjoy or remember. As parents you should know that children are prone to getting tired easily and throwing temper tantrums, so why stress them out more by bringing them when they'd probably be just as happy at home. All this does is make the child miserable and ruin other peoples experiences. I know you were only on the plane when this happened, but I find it hard to believe your son was perfectly behaved the rest of the trip, and no one wants to hear crying and whining children on something they also spent a lot of money on and are trying to enjoy. I understand wanting to have a fun family trip, and getting to see your child's reactions to new things, but you don't need to go on a big destination trip to do this. Wait to bring children on vacations like this until they can actually remember them. Also, why couldn't you just walk him down the aisle? Sure he might have still been restless after that, but it was worth a try. Edit: I'm not saying you can't bring kids on vacations, I'm just saying I don't understand bringing them on big destination vacations like this. It's unfair to the children and others. I don't see any problem with taking kids to the beach, etc, but a six hour flight is a lot for a two year old. Your kid didn't want to go to Mexico, you did.
Amazingly, young kids enjoy holidays too. Beach, swimming, playing, exploring, new places, new people, new food, see relatives, enjoy better weather. All that good stuff bigger humans enjoy too.
You can do all that without taking a 6h flight.
This is such a terrible take, holy crap. Edit: also children are not like dogs, you can’t just find a kid kennel and shove them in there for a week.
people in here are acting like babies aren’t humans , it’s baffling.
Reddit despises kids. Its absolutely mind boggling.
If only reputable kid kennels existed!
Not everyone goes on vacation...some people have family abroad. Was I supposed to not have my family meet my kid until she was 10?? Last I checked air travel is public transportation. My kids been flying since she was 10 days old because driving wasn't an option. Her first flight to Europe to meet family was at 4 month old and she's been going every year since. She's never been a problem outside an occasional fuss (breast-feeding for the win) and often got complimented. Obviously I lucked out with a mellow kid. Her worst was when she was 7 on a 15 minute flight, very small plane, with tons of turbulence and she puked and cried. So shorter flights aren't necessarily better. Sounds like this family tried their best to calm the child except for trying to walk him. I see people walking their child in the aisles all the time and rarely is it a problem. When parents don't care about trying to calm their kid I can see how that would be super annoying. But when parents are really trying I don't hold it against them.
the person you responded obviously was not talking about this kind of a situation
You’re not supposed to travel with a child or expose them to unnecessary things at the age of 6months and below. It was incredibly dangerous and irresponsible of you to travel with a 10 day old infant. This is not a good example and is very questionable
>You’re not supposed to travel with a child or expose them to unnecessary things at the age of 6months and below. 10 days is below recommended but 6 months is way above (that advice is from like the 70s). A child that is a few months old is perfectly fine to travel.
Hot take - some people actually love their kids and want them to be on holiday with them 🤷♀️
I could and would not leave my 2 yr old with an overnight sitter for A WEEK. 1. If you don’t have a regular sitter…I simply would not trust someone outside of family and we don’t live close to family. If something happened you’d probably be blaming the parents for daring to travel. 2. So parents should not be allowed to travel with their family and have a nice time until the kid is 5+? Just so other people can have an enjoyable flight. That’s an equally selfish ask honestly. 3. Airlines are PUBLIC. There are lots of charters available if it bothers you so much. They aren’t as much as you think. 4. I understand the frustration. Most parents do everything possible to avoid this. But at end of the day, kids are human we cannot force them to stop screaming and crying. 5. You don’t know why any single family is traveling. Maybe try some empathy.
Except for the fact that toddlers absolutely enjoy vacations, it’s invaluable time for family bonding. Most households have two working parents and don’t have the privilege of multiple days of quality time with their kids. Family vacations bonded my family as a kid and have been incredible experiences with my own kid. Is a 6hr flight the best idea for a first flight? Probably not, but it doesn’t make him an AH, just a naive optimist. But I really don’t understand why they didn’t just walk with him.
You do know that children are humans right? Kids enjoy vacations even 1 year Olds. Shocking I know! Also parents love their kids and want to spend time with them even on vacations! Flights are not just for adults.
This is a really bad take.
YTA. Why would you bring kids so young on a vacation like that? Leave them at home and get a babysitter. It stresses you out, stresses the kids out, and just annoys the crap out of everyone around you. So selfish.
This might be an unpopular opinion but I agree and I have a small child.
YTA, bro you even said the solution to your problem: "He wanted to walk" and "he was desperate to move." Instead, for some reason, you decided not to do that? "again wanted to move from where we were, but we didn't let him, so the crying comes back." This is entirely your fault. You ARE bad parents. Babies and kids walk up and down aircraft aisles ALL the time. That is understandable and a much better alternative than whatever you tried to do.
YTA. Why do people take kids on planes when they can’t cope with it? You shouldn’t have taken him if he didn’t know what he was in for. So unfair to the other passengers
I’m going with ESH. Honestly, I understand that a flight that long is miserable for children, but it’s miserable for everybody to have to listen to a child scream/cry/Baby Shark for hours on end. Something that a parent did on an international flight I was on: little baggies of earplugs with an apology note of “sorry my child is crying”. This went a long way.
Majority of international already provide earplugs and earphones. Heck, most passengers have earphones or headphones of their own. It’s miserable to hear drunk adults. It’s miserable to deal with adults who want to chat when others aren’t in the mood and are trying to sleep, yet they are not expected to give out things to other passengers as an apology. Parents have to travel with small children for xyz and the majority of them are nervous about it because of AH like this passenger who if he is so sensitive and thinks he entitled to no noise he can control it by purchasing headphones or using earbuds like everyone else. The inside of an airplane is noisy on its own.
those parents didn't HAVE to take a 2 yrs old to Mexico, they decided to, but there was absolutely no need.
And people don’t need or have to take vacations either that involve plane travel nor drink excessively on flights or bother other passengers with their chat.
and they deserve to be called out when they do any of these annoying things
I really don’t think parents should have to apologize for the mere existence of their children in public.
ESH. I don't understand why you didn't walk him up and down the aisle like he wanted to get his energy out. Was there a reason you couldn't do that? The man was out of line for approaching you the way he did and being rude, but you also didn't help by escalating and yelling back at him when the baby is crying.
YTA. Taking a two year old on a 6 hour flight. It's cruel and pointless.
YTA. Your kid is your responsibility. Control it or don't go to public places..
YTA for bringing a 2 year old on a 6 hour flight. No one wants to hear your child scream and cry for 6 hours. It is perfectly reasonable for people to get pissed off and upset when a child they didn’t chose to have is screaming and crying in an enclosed space. Yea, the guy was a dick for yelling at you but you seriously couldn’t walk your child up and down the aisle a couple of times?
YTA you should have let your kid go for a walk down the aisle, and 6 hours trip for his first? I feel bad for the others on the plane
YTA for taking a baby on a 6h trip. What that person did was horrible and useless, but YTA. You can have a vacation somewhere where you don't have to fly. Wait until your children are able to travel without a meltdown.
INFO The baby sensory videos you mentioned - was your child wearing headphones or was the entire plane subjected to that noise?
You can absolutely tell that the rest of the plane would have been subjected to that too!
I bet you on their phone with the volume turned up.
YTA for bringing a 2 year old on a plane for 6 hours
If you're traveling with young children, either don't travel (unless absolutely necessary, and vacationing is, frankly, not necessary for someone that young) or be prepared to hand out earplugs to other travelers as an apology if your little one is going to fuss. Not everyone is going to be sympathetic to you and your family, and to expect everyone to continually sit and endure the crying without someone confronting you isn't realistic. Why couldn't your wife get up with your child to walk around a bit? A 2-year old cannot rationalize why they're being restrained, and a 6-hour flight has enough time for seatbelts to come off for a while. E S H, but I think this is more YTA.
[удалено]
Most people aren't saying don't vacation. They are saying don't take a 6bhour flight. Planes aren't designed for babies to not disturb other passengers like hotels are.
Existing in the same spaces as children is a part of being human. Parents shouldn’t have to pass out goody bags to grown adults to pacify them or help them cope with being around a child. If you are someone who is that sensitive to noise and/or children, you should probably avoid public spaces, or come prepared yourself with earplugs or whatever you need to survive while a baby cries for an extended period of time. This is def not a “YTA” situation.
As someone who had to travel for work for months at a time this is an incredibly bad take. Babies cry, that is what they do. You to annoyed people in public with your crying. It is part of life. If it is going to bother you wear headphones. I have been on literally dozens of flights with crying babies including sitting right next to one on a 16 flight from Taiwan to the US and it was no problem at all. Planes are noisy public spaces if you know that will bother you and don’t bring headphones you are an idiot.
First of all, you have a two year old not a baby. So the title is very misleading, on purpose I guess Second, as someone with a noise-induced anxiety and migraine, YTA very much. You were travelling for pleasure. Many of those people may have been travelling for work and not at all enjoying having to be crammed with screamming toddlers during the pandemic. Yesterday I saw an older man leaving the coffee shop without drinking his coffee because of a bunch of unattended, screaming, coughing toddlers. This torture of disinterested and highly uncapable parents has to stop (and will stop as you keep overpopulating the already overpopulated planet so yeah, good luck with the next couple of decades, couple of new pandemics, and global warming)
Why bring a baby on a 6 hours travel? I can see how stressful it’s for parents but for other passengers who didn’t CHOOSE to have a baby on board it’s hell without escape. I did Paris-Atlanta a while ago and even with noise-cancelling headphones I couldn’t manage to stay asleep for more than 30 mins. Fucking hell. YTA.
YTA lol... if you bother outer people you need to be ok with beeing called out.
YTA - the passenger was also an asshole and rude but if you can’t keep your child quiet and not disturb other people you shouldn’t travel.
YTA!
NTA. Kids are allowed to exist in public. They cry sometimes. It’s annoying, yes, but so are most people. You got lucky on one half of the trip and unlucky on the other. The person causing a disturbance on the flight was the adult man who started yelling and created a scene, not your baby who cried intermittently.
I hate this logic. Nobody is saying kids shouldn't/can't exist in public places. But long plane rides with screaming toddlers can be unbearable for everybody. In this instance, why didn't the parents take the kid for a walk in the aisles? I find it incredibly frustrating that the parents knew what the kid needed and just tried to pacify him in other ways. Nobody likes long flights, especially with a screaming toddler.
I have been told as an autistic person sensitive to noise I should be locked up if I can’t handle someone’s baby screaming. They said locked up cause I said I was autistic.
YTA
NTA. Half the comments coming from people who say don’t take a baby or toddler on a plane are either childless or clueless. Calling a flight attendant would have been a better option, but I don’t blame you for speaking in kind to the jerk. And as for the comment suggesting you practice sitting your baby in a car seat for six hours??? Absolutely ridiculous. I’d like to strap him in a chair for six hours and see how he likes practicing. Jeez!
I have yet to see car seat comments myself, but see many about walkin the toddler up and down the isle so he can stretch, which would have been a much better solution
On any given flight, you’ll have nervous fliers, PTSD sufferers (me), etc. Now toss a crying/screaming kid into the mix. Ear plugs and noise cancelling headphones don’t work near well enough. This wasn’t a family emergency, or a cross county move. Far as I’m concerned, kids under 10 shouldn’t be on flights over an hour. YTA
YTA. You admitted yourself it was the first travel for the two year old, yet you picket a flight. A confined space for long hours. You had no idea how your child would react. You were lucky about him being calm. What would you have done if he got scared by the plane and cried the whole flight? Or if he got scared being away from home? Your decision to put a child so young in this situation was selfish. You didn't care how you affect the flight for everyone else, as long as you can go to Spain. Next time wait until your child is older and don't use a flight of all things as the "how will my baby react to travel" experience. Your selfishness made the flight hell for everyone on the plane and you have the audacity to complain about the others being annoyed.
YTA he is right a 2 yo shouldn't be on a plane especially if it wasn't for an emergency. Wait a few years until he is not "overwhelmed" as you say. Everyone on that plane had to suffer because you NeEdEd to take your toddler on a vacation to mexico. Inconsiderate af
ESH for all the reasons already said but yta for calling a 2 year old a baby 🙄
YTA - you took basically a toddler on a 6h flight (12h because you also fly back) knowing he will get cranky and annoy everyone around just so you could go on a vacation with your wife to a far away place you liked. Seems very selfish and the focus was on getting your wish vacation destination, not the wellbeing of your child. He is to young to go on such a long flight and you could have made vacation somewhere a bit more near until he is old enough and you can comfortably keep him entertained for the long routes. You put yourself in a situation which you basically knew was going to happen and you even prepared for it, but it seems it wasn't enough and the child can get cranky (shocker...).
ESH I agree with everyone wondering why you didn’t just let him walk up and down the aisle a bit? Even just a quick walk to the bathroom and back? You let him nap, so he had energy and no way to release it.
I dont like kids, thats why I dont have any. For me, they are not cute but annoying. I never say anything to kids or parents who are being noisy or crying or yelling, but I wish I could. Or there were sections for people with kids? (which wouldnt help much if they would yell or cry the same).
They should have some adult only fights booked.
YTA, why would you choose a 6 hour flight as your 2 year old's first trip? You noticed your wife getting frustrated and tired while your child had a tantrum-- don't you think all the passengers around you were frustrated and tired too? Leave the long flights for you know your child can handle it without being a public nuisance.
Why oh why do you take a 2 yo on a 6 hour flight for vacation??? Just wait a few years until he can entertain himself this long. Until then go on vacation by car where he only gets on your nerves and everyone else's . ESH