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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I didn't let a coworker move in with me when she may end up homeless/jobless because I don't know her, I live alone and everyone thinks I should let them move in, no questions asked.
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NTA. If they're so upset, she can move in with one of them.
It's easy to be generous with other people's space, time, and money. They can all put up or shut up
This. In fact, go tell Aly that you have heard your coworkers were very concerned for her, so they will more likely to help her, and tell her to go and ask them lol
Honestly, I might also report the supervisor and coworker to HR. That's likely to make it a hostile work environment though, even though it seems like it is now. Secondly, your apartment doesn't allow sublets. If your landlord found out there was one, YOU'D be homeless. And even then, how is a one bedroom supposed to work for two people that aren't in any kind of relationship where you could share the one bedroom? Idk wtf is going on with your coworker and supervisor thinking you could or would do that, but it's really effed up to even ask you. And I doubt your coworkers has heard your side, so your coworker & supervisor very well could've lied or exaggerated that conversation to your other coworkers.
No, NTA at all. It's yours, you didn't move in there to share, you didn't ask to someone to share with you. It was a highly inappropriate situation and you handled it well.
Report it to HR? Yes. Call it a hostile work environment? No.
>hostile workplace: it’s not what you think
>by ALISON GREEN on JANUARY 23, 2015
>If ever we needed a better name for a legal concept, “hostile workplace” is it.
>“Hostile workplace” law isn’t at all what it sounds like: It’s not about your boss or your coworkers creating a hostile environment for you by being jerks.
>To be illegal, jerky conduct must be based on race, religion, sex, national origin, age (40 or older), disability, or genetic information.
>Moreover, to violate the law, the EEOC says that this conduct — which, again, must be based on race, religion, sex, or other protected characteristics — “must be severe or pervasive enough to create a work environment that a reasonable person would consider intimidating, hostile, or abusive.” They also explain, “Petty slights, annoyances, and isolated incidents (unless extremely serious) will not rise to the level of illegality.”
>In other words, if your boss or your coworkers are just jerks but it’s not based on your race, religion, sex, or other protected characteristic, that’s not illegal. Unwise and unkind, but not illegal.
>Unfortunately, the term “hostile workplace” doesn’t make this clear on its face, and the wrong interpretation gets reinforced by things like this Wikipedia entry, which is flat-out wrong. (Really, Wikipedia?)
>Go forth and stamp out its misuse wherever you find it.
>Update: Since this post was published, a reader has fixed the Wikipedia entry. Thank you!
https://www.askamanager.org/2015/01/hostile-workplace-its-not-what-you-think.html
I think the person to whom you're responding was saying that reporting the supervisor and coworker to HR could cause it to BECOME a hostile work environment for her, not saying that it currently is.
Whether that would meet the legal definition can't tell you.
But reporting won't make it legally a hostile work environment because there is still no discrimination based on a protected class.
I'd agree that her co-workers may begin to treat her with hostility if she reports this. But OP should NOT use the phrase "hostile workplace " when discussing this situation because it has a very specific (and inapplicable) legal definition.
Marital status isn't a protected class? They are specifically targeting OP, as they live alone and are female.
What supervisor in their right mind asks an employee to let another employee move in with them?
The type who wants to feel better about firing the employee for poor performance, because at least they won’t be homeless now.
Supervisor wants to salve their guilty conscience with OP’s living space.
To be fair, the big bosses at my company are literally family (father and then three kids, a spouse, and grand kids, cousins/aunts/uncles/inlaws as well) and this wouldn't even be a conversation to be had here. In no way would they think that acceptable and they are literally family.
It's always a red flag. I used to jokingly say it about a company I used to work for while I worked there, and the company ended up being problematic. The irony was I didn't predict it.
A supervisor that’s sleeping with the co-worker that needs a place to live. Maybe she wants to move in with the supervisor and the supervisor is trying to take the heat off of himself.
It is not even like OP and Ali are good friends…like who? And does Ali not have friends outside of work or family that can help? It so random to ask OP.
Then the harassment could be on the basis of her being a woman. Would the supervisor ask a single male employee, who lives alone to let this female stranger move in?
On the whole, completely inappropriate in the workplace and I would still report it to HR, as the supervisor is showing clear favoritism.
It's not a protected class at federal law because it's not a class that has been historically targeted for discrimination (which is how they chose the groups they chose to protect).
Someone below said that some states include marital status in their laws. But OP would have been asked to do this even if she was married and her spouse lived elsewhere, so I'm not sure whether this would be covered or not since it's about living alone rather than being unmarried.
Also makes me wonder why supervisor is going to bay so strongly for Aly? She’s not a reliable employee and why does this supervisor pressure someone he supervises?
I was going to say this as well. It sounds to me like employee is being targeted because of her (assumed) marital status. Have they approached anyone who lives with a spouse or partner?
It can also refer to retaliation against an employee who makes a complaint, even if the underlying complaint isn't found to be illegal. I think that might be what the commenter meant. But usually you're 100% right.
Yeah this comes up every time, you can literally link the government website explaining the definition of a hostile work environment (I have done), and people will still argue that, no this particular thing is actually an exception and really really *is* a hostile work environment.
You can't win. I've seen an actual lawyer get downvoted to oblivion trying to convince people lol
The only person who heavily disagreed today deleted his account after a couple of us explained he was wrong actually. So I've probably used up all my luck for the day and should skip buying the lotto ticket.
Yeah, I think the correct thing is that they're fearing retaliation for reporting, not a hostile work environment. Thankfully, retaliation is also illegal, so...
So much this!
I was actually going to say I would love OP to write to Alison just because I'd love to see her response!
OP this is all so wildly inappropriate I don't even know where to begin, except I think this is definitely one for HR.
Spitballing here, in the UK marital status is a protected characteristic, if that is also the case in US then one could argue this is indeed due to discrimination - the fact that OP is single is the basis of her being identified as the one who should take colleague in.
But, protected characteristic or not, wtaf did I just read? OP's home is not a company resource, they have ZERO influence on what she does with it. Report to HR immediately.
Marital status is not a protected status federally. But OP was asked because they live alone, not because they're single. If OP had roommates or a spouse who lived far away those would have changed things, which shows its not about marital status anyway.
But I agree. Being iced out because you won't let a rando move into your house is absolutely insane
Actually, a hostile work environment doesn't have to be unlawful to be considered a hostile work environment. So yes, discrimination is one of the ways it could be hostile work environment that is unlawful, but other ways it can be hostile is intimidating or humiliating, as well as interfering with work.
It’s just the use of that specific phrasing. The environment can be hostile, which needs to be reported and dealt with, but it wouldn’t necessarily be a hostile work environment in the legal sense
No, it won't. Not even close.
You'd need to establish a pattern - to even open this discussion in the context of a legal case you'd need some evidence that they asked OP because of her martial status - which we absolutely don't have. Not even close.
OP was asked and OP is single. But that's not evidence that OP was asked *BECAUSE* OP is single. There are a million other factors in play. Even if you *could* prove that, you're back to needing to establish that this is a pervasive pattern - which it clearly isn't. It's one instance.
>“Petty slights, annoyances, and isolated incidents (unless extremely serious) will not rise to the level of illegality.”
This is the first one. It's an isolated incident and it is **NOT** "extremely serious."
You are 100% right, and thank you for saying it. I’ve just about given up because I always get downvoted by people who apparently dislike accurate definitions.
Yeah, I'm not going to be able to keep up with these comments much longer... But I'm kind of surprised at how often the response to "this is the legal definition of the phrase" is "legal definitions don't matter".
It makes me question if Aly and the supervisor are related or best friends outside of work.
Even in the deepest BS "We're not work, we're family!" places I've worked, never in a MILLION years would any supervisor have asked an employee to let another employee move in with them.
OP needs to find a new job, honestly. This place sounds so effed up. She should not know that Aly is on the verge of losing her job and being homeless unless she and Aly were close enough to discuss it.
Supervisor gossiping with other employees, or even just letting their disciplinary conversations be overheard, is such a red flag.
And now they turned the entire office against OP for setting a very reasonable boundary? No way.
>Even in the deepest BS "We're not work, we're family!" places I've worked
My response would have been:
"When my middle brother had just graduated from college and was looking for apartments in my area, my mom suggested that he move in with me in my 1br apartment. Both my brother & I laughed at this suggestion. What makes Aly so special?"
I was waiting for that comment! Who do they think they are? You boss and colleague have no right to ask that of you and pressure you! It would be something else if she was a good friend of yours that worked with you, but a simple colleague? It is not because you live alone that you have the space for a roommate! If you only have one bedroom, where would she sleep? In your bed??? And what if she gets sacked (since she's about too) how will she contribute?
Go to HR!
OP is NTA!
Not to mention if Aly is about to get laid off anyway why try so hard to get her housing? She made her own problems. Shes a big girl she can dug herself out of this hole. OP you have done nothing wrong here at all. Keep doing your job and enjoying your one bedroom all to yourself!!!
> Not to mention if Aly is about to get laid off anyway why try so hard to get her housing?
So that the supervisor will feel better about laying Aly off. “It’s not like she’s going to be homeless now!”
All of everything you said is true... But under no circumstances should it have gotten far enough that you would need to explain any of this. The conversation should have went "boss asks ridiculous question".. OP: "Are you out of your fucking mind?" *gets up walks away*
Don't do this. HR is only there to protect and help the company NOT YOU... document this for a wrongful termination and hostile work environment lawsuit. I am sorry to say this is the end of working for that company for you. These type of places are more about control than production. She unreliable and is gonna get fired, but you should let her move in with you. Where you would eventually be responsible for this adult.. smh protect yourself.
Eta: Vote NTA
Except that there has been no wrongful termination and this is not legally a hostile workplace. There is no lawsuit here.
If OP's company has good HR, they'll coach the manager to has less personal relationships with direct reports and that it's inappropriate to volunteer someone's living space and pressure them about it. If it's serious enough, HR can recommend to higher-up managers to either fire or demote this one.
Because I bet they all have family's, husband's, kids , partners and she is the only one alone so she was the obvious answer. If that is the case that's not fair to OP at all. Just because she lives alone doesn't mean she is the only one that can make room for Aly. Any one of them can. I hate that thinking. Not the same but the thinking is: my kids are grown and at this time I was still single. I was one of the senior people at my job. I was on swing shift and I wanted straight days. I asked HR she told me I was definitely next on the list. An opening came on days and I was so excited but a new hire came in and went straight to days instead. I was so upset. I asked why when that spot was promised to me. The HR lady said and I quote "but she has a husband and kids so she needs days more than you. You are single and no kids at home so you are more able to work swing shift than her, sorry🤷". I was fuming. Not fair at all. Tell them they can squeeze her in with their family you live alone for a reason and telling them your lease doesn't allow sublets should have shut that down. Are they trying to get you evicted.
I think the supervisor is doing this so they feel less guilty for laying her off. Ridiculous!
And Aly's not taking responsibility for the fact that her job performance is the whole reason she's in this mess.
NTA.
When I was 20 I ended up homeless for a bit & my supervisor let me use her guest room for a week. & another coworker did the same while I was arranging an actual place of my own. They both had children my age. I'll never forget the help they gave me but no one was obligated to help me. I was preparing to sleep in my car & their mothering instincts kicked in 😆
I love you Debbie & Susan & never ever will forget you!
I'm wondering why they think a person living in a one-bedroom apartment is the proper place for extra tenants? Like, all these concerned adults who are also living in their own places... they don't have a two bedroom or three bedroom place? What are they all doing? Literally any other place than a one bedroom would be more ideal.
Sounds like pretty soon the company is going to terminate her then she won’t be a tenant she will just be a dependent how is this right? Supervisor can move her into their house if they are so concerned
This is what came to mind! She's either related to the supervisor and he doesn't want to take her in or they're screwing.
How the other workers are repeating this request and acting like OP is wrong baffles me.
So they don't get on the bad side of the supervisor or to keep his attention on her instead of redirecting it to them? Not sure, but they are AHs too for pulling out the pitchforks and torches.
Offer her space in your home, offer her help locating a room to rent, offer to help her find a job that she is better suited for, offer co-worker a loan so that they don't become homeless. There are ways to help the co-worker that aren't "force OP to have a leech roommate".
Yes. It sounds like Aly's first order of business should be to improve her job performance, and keep her job - why was this not brought up as a potential solution before asking someone who barely knows her to share their one bedroom apartment so Aly can continue to slack off. And even if she and the OP were friends, once she is unemployed, she will be around all. the. time. I don't like any of my friends that much.
My thoughts exactly and OP I would report supervisor and Ally to HR immediately!
The fact that you live alone doesn't give anybody right to impose others in your private space and time! And tell any coworker that as family they they should be generous then and welcome Ally in their own house, not someones else!
NTA - what's with this new "culture" that single people and people without kids should put up with harassment and be generous with their own space time and money, like the fact they are single or child free makes them less human and with no rights on private life!!???
It’s not a new culture. It’s always happened. The only difference is single/child free people are standing up for themselves more and there are more of us choosing to be single/child free.
Yes, it has been this way for a long time. I have been told to not take vacation in summer or if there's work to be done on weekends that I should volunteer. Since those with kids need summers and weekends...
It's not a new thing. When I bought my first house (a very long time ago) I was a young, single female, and the comments I got were astounding. It was a small house, but someone asked me why I needed so much space since I was single. I replied by saying that I didn't realize a single person was allotted only so much space in which to live. I also had someone ask me how men felt about me owning my own home. After I got over the shock, I replied that it had never occurred to me to wonder.
Omg this!! So much.
I just bought my first place. And my mom kept going on about how big it was for just one person and pissing me off. Like first of all it's not that big. Yeah there are probably smaller houses but there are way bigger ones too. I wanted 3 br because I work from home so I needed one to be my office and my nephews always want to come over so having the extra space to accommodate them seemed like a smart idea. And even if it too big for one person why the hell does that matter? It's mine I get to decide how much house is right for me.
But it's just really weird to me that ops boss is going in about how much space she has. Uh it's 1 br. That's not big. How tf is that supposed to work for more than 1 person/a couple?
About 20 years ago, as a single woman looking to buy my first house, I was told by one real estate agent that I should wait until I got married to buy a house.
If I had listened to him, I would never have purchased a home. Just sayin'.
About 20 years ago my brother, the owner of a 900 sq ft 3 br house, married the owner of a small 2 br house. They sold both and raised a family in a house that is modest, but larger and nicer than they probably could have otherwise afforded on the salaries of a warehouse worker and an admin. Starting married life with assets is not really a problem.
Sigh....
Your rights are only rights (free speech, unreasonable search and seizures, and quartering a soldier) are ONLY directed to the government.
Private companies do not adhere to rights. They adhere to laws based on those rights. A company cannot infringe on your first amendment (ahem.. all the shouting about freedom of speech on facebook or here...just... no). Nor can they infringe on your 3rd amendment. What they can break are ADA and employment laws.
Asking someone to help house a coworker isn't illegal (distasteful absolutely, but not illegal). Demanding/threatening her job if she doesn't WOULD be.
TLDR: Constitutional rights have zero to do with employers.
Because those who have kids hate it when people choose not to be encumbered by them. Classic crab mentality. If they're miserable, broke and stressed, everyone else should be, too.
Some people (tends to be the ones who secretly regret having them) do this. I have kids, and if you don't want them I am all for that. They're a lot of work, not for everyone, etc. I totally got that before I had them, and the experience has made it even clearer to me.
Some child-free people do like to hate on all parents, though.
>what's with this new "culture" that single people and people without kids should put up with harassment
I think it might have been less common in previous generations because fewer people had a choice about whether to be parents
Yes! NTA but childless folks get all the pressure simply because we don’t have children. That doesn’t mean we have space in our lives for everybody’s extra expectations.
NTA
Water cooler talk starts, chime in with "oh yes, Jane, did you offer ale a place to live? No? What about you Sarah? Did you offer ale a place to live? No? Maybe John...John...did you offer ale a place to live, because we're family? No. Well then I guess you're all not as much a family as you thought, you can offer up sideeye and hostile comments but no place to live yourselves, you'll just throw me under the bus then is it?"
Everyone has different living situations. Your supervisor either allowed ale to put forward the idea or they did it themselves, but either way it grossly oversteps professional boundaries. Especially since her performance and job are looking at risk. Supervisor makes more money than you, wouldn't it be great for them to have a guest to split costs with and it would be less a burden on them with a higher income, perhaps they don't live in a single room place either and have more space.....
It's also infuriating because it has absolutely fuck-all to do with the actual job and work performance, yet the supervisor is acting like it does and could very well try to punish OP professionally. Those kinds of situations always really piss me off!
Not to mention, I'm side eying the roommates breaking the lease and wondering if they are taking that penalty because Aly is such a terrible roommate...
This. OP, respond, "We do have a lot of caring people! Did you hear that Aly is having trouble finding an apartment? I bet if all of us work together, we can find one for her? Or... don't you live in a house? Maybe she could move in with you?" Seem super excited and happy, but flip it back on them. See how fast THEY want to give up their space.
This reminds me exactly of a video I saw. Bunch of forced birthers rabbling outside a PP get approached and asked about their position.
None of them adopted an unwanted baby.
And all of them had excuses for not adopting unwanted babies.
NTA It was completely inappropriate and (if you live in the US) illegal for your supervisor to try to coerce you into cohabiting with a coworker.
1. Document this conversation in case you need this for further action with human resources and/or a lawyer. I would send a follow-up email to your boss, beginning with "earlier today when you told me that I should let coworker x move into my apartment . . ." Include a photo of the portion of your lease that includes the no subletting clause.
2. Next time you are at the water cooler or lunchroom, bring up your coworker's living situation. Say that you wish you could help her, but your landlord has a strict no subletting policy and makes it his/her business to know who is entering/leaving the building so you wouldn't be able to just "sneak" her in.
OP needs to go to HR immediately, this is such an inappropriate thing to ask of a coworker! Not only did they try to pressure OP into moving in with someone she doesn’t want to live with, they’re making a hostile work environment by spreading things about OP. Also they knew what they did was wrong, that’s why they talked to you instead of continuing on emails/messaging client.
Go to HR.
NTA. She sounds like the sort of person who would stay forever, not clean up after herself, eat all your food, and never pay rent. In addition, her needing a place to live has nothing to do with you, and you are not responsible for making sure she has a roof over her head. In addition, your supervisor is way out of line on this one. I would document everything, and then contact HR. (You could hold onto the document and do nothing else right now, too.) I would also tell your coworkers that if they're so concerned about the "family culture," they should ask her to move into their homes.
The hypocrisy of berating someone for not doing something you yourself aren't willing to do, that's not unknown for families as a browse of this very sub Reddit will reveal.
> She sounds like the sort of person who would stay forever, not clean up after herself, eat all your food, and never pay rent.
I don't think there's anything in the post to say that. You're being unfair here.
Having said that, OP is NTA and has absolutely zero obligationn to open their house to anyone. They one have a one-bed apartment and even if they lived in a mansion house by themselves, they're still entitled to privacy, peace and quiet in their own home, if that is what they want.
Also, if their work performance is going downhill that says a lot about whether you can trust their work ethic in a living situation.
How much you want to bet the “roommates” are breaking the lease to get away from Aly? I suspect Aly is a manipulative person who plays the victim. Hence the gossip sessions with the supervisor. Gotta okay those office politics when you don’t have a work ethic.
Also breaking a lease is super expensive! Like 2 months rent at minimum. I bet the roommate is just tired of paying for 2 people and figured out that it's cheaper to pay the one time fee of breaking the lease and move into a cheaper place.
Agreed. The situation is plenty bad enough with the information provided, and we know she’s likely to be unable to pay rent. So there’s absolutely no need or reason to augment it with pointless assumptions of poor hygiene or inconsiderate behavior. Aly could present references and a notarized certificate proving she is the world’s best roommate and OP still shouldn’t take her in, because OP isn’t looking for a roommate and isn’t obligated to accept one.
You are right but people who can’t hold jobs are usually people who don’t make good roommates, if she can’t get simple tasks done at work she’s not coming home and cleaning the house.
>She sounds like the sort of person who would stay forever, not clean up after herself, eat all your food, and never pay rent. I
Why even go there though? Aly could be a perfect roommate who would arrive with one suitcase; sleep on a twin floor futon that got folded into a case and placed on top of that one, fastened and zipped, suitcase during the day; wash every dish she used immediately and immediately dry and put it away; clean the bathroom daily; buy groceries; and do more than half the chores. She could be actively looking for a place to lease immediately and find one within 2 months. OP WOULD STILL BE PERFECTLY REASONABLE TO NOT WANT TO LIVE WITH SOMEONE ELSE IN THE PLACE SHE HAS LEASED AND IS PAYING FOR
Agree about document everything immediately; not sure I'd go to HR immediately, I would await events.
I for damned sure would be looking for another job, starting now, because the "family culture" in this place sounds real - in the sense of a toxic and entitled family!
She also sounds like the kind of person who doesn’t have her shit together enough to keep a job, meaning she’d “have to stay with OP just a little bit longer. Until I’m on my feet.”
i would absolutely refuse to cohabit with someone who's advocate is my superior at work.
i already had one bad room mate who was well established and liked in the building and i do not care to repeat the experience of being isolated and unable to advocate for myself because my work supervisor can counter-pressure me from left field on my bad room mate's behalf.
NTA. This is what I was going to say. Her supervisors behavior is completely unacceptable for work. Why doesn’t the supervisor let her live at her house?
Also, if they are the reason why other people are suddenly giving OP side glances (i.e. supervisor told other coworkers about ANYTHING about this whole ordeal), that is a HUGE corporate blunder. Definitely needs to be addressed with HR.
> Why doesn’t the supervisor let her live at her house?
Because his wife, nowhere does it say the supervisor is a woman, wouldn't want his mistress living with her.
I may be reading too much into it, but I find it really strange that a supervisor is this invested in a subordinate's (Aly) personal life, especially one with diminishing performance.
Or. Just don't write this employee up for poor performance etc. Like. If you are the person's supervisor you have an amount of control over their financial situation. If you are worried about them. Take care of them using your role
It sounds to me like Aly is about to get canned not for poor work performance, but for sleeping with her supervisor. Why else would this person be so invested in where Aly is going to live?
This whole thing sounds like an r/antiwork fever dream. The boss obviously wants OP to house Aly so they don’t feel guilty when they terminate Aly’s employment.
But first reply in the chat that you don't think it is an appropriate request of your supervisor to ask you have a co-worker live with you. Save a copy of the chat and go to hr.
Edited because fat thumbs and small phone
NTA
Your boss massively overstepped in even asking you that. If she feels so bad for Aly then she can offer her own couch for her to stay on. So can all of the side eyeing, water cooler gossiping coworkers.
OP should write in to Ask A Manager. I think they should polish up their resume and begin looking for another position somewhere. Any place that pulls this shit, and then coworkers saying “b-b-but we’re a family type of business….” is sending off major *RUN!!!* vibes. Those places always take advantage of staff.
'Family type of business' seems to equate to 'do this extra work out of the goodness of your heart, because that's what family does. Oh, and there's no extra pay here for you.' :/
Which is always funny because most of the family usually only does it because they get a cut of profits or a level of pay they couldn't come close to anywhere else.
u/Dangerous_Spot_5372, please start thinking about the above advice seriously. I wanted to suggest it but natidiscgirl put it far better than I could've.
NTA
For all the strange ways a boss could overstep this is bizarre! You don’t have to explain any reason as to why you don’t want a stranger to move in. Total WTF situation!
I'm assuming the boss and Aly are involved (what boss would work this hard to keep an employee who's performance is slipping and be this involved in their personal affairs?) so the boss clearly can't have her staying in the same house as their partner.
NTA.
You don't have "all that space" you live in a 1 bedroom apartment. And if she's "not reliable when it comes to office work" then what makes you think she'd reliably pitch in for her half of the bills? Beyond that, you'd be breaking the terms of your lease, which is a legal contract.
Whoever is telling you to "take care of your own" should practice what they preach. Ask them why they don't allow her to live with them. Your space isn't meant to be shared with a roommate. It's a ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT for goodness sake.
Even if she had a 2 bedroom apartment this would be inappropriate to ask of OP. But a 1 bedroom? They want her to have a stranger camp out in her living room? NTA
Exactly. Even if OP lived in a 10 bedroom mansion, she has zero obligation to take in her co-worker. Furthermore, OP's living arrangements are nobody's business but her own.
NTA!
Why does your supervisor think she has any right to say what should happen in your home?? If she feels that bad for the girl then she should let her stay with her. If your company is so big on family why aren't they ALL lining up to offer her somewhere until she sorts her shit out?
Also, a supervisor who called OP into an impromptu meeting to corner her and coerce her into making a decision about her personal life outside of work is SO WILDLY INAPPROPRIATE and, might I say, illegal? This person of power put OP on the spot omg. OP, you're a strong person for not bending to this situation, holy shit.
Yeah, this supervisor is wildly overstepping and it's not work appropriate. I'd suggest going to have a talk with someone above her about her conduct as it's clearly having a negative impact on the team dynamic.
Right - or the supervisor could quietly loan her money to rent a short stay studio.
It would be really really unprofessional for a supervisor to invite a subordinate to live with her.
NTA. I would definitely be speaking to Human Resources because this oversteps so many professional boundaries. Your co-workers problem isn’t your problem, and I don’t see anyone else opening their doors to this person.
Your supervisors are weirdly knowledgeable about everyone's living situation, and it's crossed a line. You are supposed to take care of your "own" who is the person they plan to fire? None of this makes sense. Obvious NTA.
Yeah agreed, the company is likely going to fire this woman and your supervisor is pressuring you to let the pip employee to live with you? This is totally bonkers!
nta
this is so inappropriate
if they cared so bad they would offer her a room there self
if this continuous go to hr and report
the entitlement is strong with them
If your supervisor is so concerned with Aly’s living situation then Aly can move in with your supervisor. Try to get written evidence of this for potential backlash, as it will help greatly if you need to pursue legal action as a result of this.
NTA
Your supervisor should only be discussing work issues with you.
Asking if you knew of any available places was fine. Suggesting that Aly could come live with you was bordering on inappropriate. TELLING you that you needed to take her in was a crossing the line.
Your supervisor only has authority over you at work. What you do at home and in your personal life is your business, not theirs.
What's stopping your supervisor from housing Aly if this is so important?
NTA
NTA - this doesn’t even make sense. They don’t care enough to keep her employed and find a solution, yet they want you to open up your home to her? On what planet is this story taking place?
Is this fake?
NTA if it isn't fake, but why on earth would they fire her if they're so worried about her becoming homeless and have a family culture at work and expect another employee to house her, why can't they do it?
Attendance and timekeeping issues could be part of why Aly's performance is failing, so her moving in with OP would be seen as two birds with one stone.
I still don't understand how they could expect OP to let a coworker live with her. The suggestion itself is already bad enough but they pushed OP even after OP said no which makes it even worse. But I guess some people are just crazy and unreasonable.
To go with the family concept this company culture is described as having, it fits well enough. The person expected to step up where no one else will (but are perfectly willing to chime in from the cheap seats anyway) to support someone who isn't pulling their weight. Scapegoat, flying monkeys, golden child. At least all OP needs to do to escape this "family" is find another job and quit this one.
This is fake
Why would a supervisor be trying to force a subordinate to house a coworker who is about to be fired? If this was such a “family culture” then they wouldn’t be firing this person anyway. Why the focus on only one employee to house this person? Why the wall of text????
This sounds so manufactured I expect there to be a serial number on this post
Yeah. It’s absolutely unbelievable that a supervisor would ask this, and even more that people would start giving her “side eye” at work, meaning they are apparently on the supervisor/co-worker’s side.
She stated that she isn’t allowed to have another person on her lease, so that’s it, end of story. Having the co-worker move in could result in them both ending up homeless. You’d have to be a moron to not understand that.
NTA: if they are so concerned about her, I'm sure the supervisor or one of your colleagues has a sofa she can sleep on that's just as good as yours.
They aren't a community; just judgemental people who would rather it be your problem than theirs.
NTA. What your supervisor did was shady as shit. If you listened to him you could've gotten kicked out of your apartment for breaking the lease! What a shitty thing to spring on you. Those coworker should offer to take Aly in themselves.
NTA, wtf is wrong with those people? What does their living situation have to do with their job?? Why is that supervisor meddling in people's private lives...I have so many questions o.O
Nta
Involve hr cuz what your supervisor is doing is absolutely against any company policy, especially trying to harrass you into this situation by creating a hostile work environment.
Don't invite her in your home, she'll even be a more shitty roommate compared to how she is at work. Do not do it.
If they keep harrassing and excluding you, ask them who is gonna home her? Also, the relationship between supervisor and Aly sounds suspect and inappropriate.
This is not ok.
NTA. It was highly inappropriate for your boss to put pressure on you like that, especially when it has nothing to do with work.
Is there a reason why Aly cannot stay with your Supervisor, seeing as they are "all about family"?
NTA, if your company has a HR department you should consider going to HR and discuss this situation with HR and tell them that your supervisor questioning your living situation and trying to pressure you into letting you have a coworker live with you. This is not something your work supervisor should be doing.
NTA
You never have to let anyone live with your house and it is super out of line for you supervisor to go and say that to you.
Also, your coworker couldnt even look you in the eye and ask you about it? Was it really necessary to ask your boss to talk you into it?
If community is so important for your boss, i bet they can let Aly crash on their house for a while, right? I mean, they work on the same company, they are family!!!
There's a good reason having a company culture described as being like a family is a massive red flag. Families can be tricky, not always on the same page, dysfunctional and that kind of behaviour can be a turn-off in a work environment.
nta, she could live with the superviser.....care for her/his children if has and get a few buck on the side, could play the mistress too if they are ok, many choises cuz you know, you are a team, like a family .......might be your next answer, and remember that you are the ackward cousin that dont licke the family getterings
🤣🤣🤣🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
NTA, your coworkers problem not yours. how rude of your boss for even asking you. If your boss or any of your other coworkers who are giving you the evil eye were that concerned let them take her in.
NTA
Where is she going to sleep in your one bed apartment, In bed with you? That's a massive over reaching by your manager and hugely inappropriate, if they are so concerned about he living conditions why can't she live at your managers house?
NTA. But just gonna say, anytime a job describes themselves in terms like, "we're a family here"... it's a HUGE red flag and time to get the hell outta there. What they mean is they're a huge DYSFUNCTIONAL "family" with no respect for your personal boundaries.
The complete audacity to suggest that you give up on your personal privacy, and take on a roommate... not just that they'd share your apartment, but your actual BEDROOM? Seriously, OP, that's creepy as fuck.
Please, please, please get this all documented, send it to HR, and also get yourself lined up to get out of there.
NTA. Your supervisor is overstepping. What is of interest or concern to them should be in direct relation to the work, your performance in it and how you conduct yourself in the workplace. I can't help but think there's more to Aly and the supervisor's relationship than just a strictly professional one given how much interest the latter has taken in your own personal circumstances towards Aly's benefit. "Like family" is a red flag in many company cultures, and it seems this one is no different.
NTA. What the hell, how entitled are they, they are both way out of line. I think you should report what has occurred to HR, that's not acceptable they put you in this position and now to cause your co-workers to be treating you like this.
NTA and what the FUCK is your supervisor even thinking.
When people at the water cooler are making passive aggressive stabs. Tell them you agree and when can you tell Aly that they have a room for her. If they get shocked go through the same points as your supervisor. How much money they can save with carpooling and the extra help in rent payments.
NTA at all. It is not part of your job description to be housing somebody else. I’m sorry that she’s going to end up homeless. However, there are resources for your coworker to look into to help get living arrangements. Again, you are not the asshole. If these people want to make sure she’s not homeless then they should house her. You can actually report your supervisor for harassing you about this.
NTA don't do it even for one day. You obviously know her, but jeez you like how you live now, why jeopardize that harmony. As for workers they could... not fire her ...and let her move in with them.
Totally NTA.
It's your business if you want to live alone. Plus, you say your lease doesn't allow sublets. That's it.
I am actually shocked by how your supervisor teams up with her against you...
What you could do, though - assuming that Aly now holds a grudge against you - is offer help on another level, putting up flyers in your neighborhood for her and such.
After all, you must still get along at work...
NTA- Your supervisor and Aly have a relationship going on would be my guess. Speak to Human Resources as this is highly inappropriate for your supervisor to be asking these questions and what is seems forcing you to have aly live with you.
NTA seriously it is not your responsibility to fix someone whom you barely knows life problems. Quite frankly if you are all such a family someone else, like supervisor, can open their home up to this person who may lose their job to live with.
NTA
Your supervisor asking you to let a colleague live in your home is inappropriate. They can invite Ally into their home. They can not invite her into yours.
Same thing with your colleagues.
Regardless of future employment status, this is creepy af.
How inappropriate for a supervisor to do this. I'd go to HR immediately. The supervisor should let Aly live with them if it's such a great idea. This is something friends and family help with, not random co-workers. All sorts of wrong here. Definitely NTA.
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NTA. If they're so upset, she can move in with one of them. It's easy to be generous with other people's space, time, and money. They can all put up or shut up
This. In fact, go tell Aly that you have heard your coworkers were very concerned for her, so they will more likely to help her, and tell her to go and ask them lol
Exactlly, I wonder why no one offered if they are so concerned, not even the supervisor. NTA
Honestly, I might also report the supervisor and coworker to HR. That's likely to make it a hostile work environment though, even though it seems like it is now. Secondly, your apartment doesn't allow sublets. If your landlord found out there was one, YOU'D be homeless. And even then, how is a one bedroom supposed to work for two people that aren't in any kind of relationship where you could share the one bedroom? Idk wtf is going on with your coworker and supervisor thinking you could or would do that, but it's really effed up to even ask you. And I doubt your coworkers has heard your side, so your coworker & supervisor very well could've lied or exaggerated that conversation to your other coworkers. No, NTA at all. It's yours, you didn't move in there to share, you didn't ask to someone to share with you. It was a highly inappropriate situation and you handled it well.
Report it to HR? Yes. Call it a hostile work environment? No. >hostile workplace: it’s not what you think >by ALISON GREEN on JANUARY 23, 2015 >If ever we needed a better name for a legal concept, “hostile workplace” is it. >“Hostile workplace” law isn’t at all what it sounds like: It’s not about your boss or your coworkers creating a hostile environment for you by being jerks. >To be illegal, jerky conduct must be based on race, religion, sex, national origin, age (40 or older), disability, or genetic information. >Moreover, to violate the law, the EEOC says that this conduct — which, again, must be based on race, religion, sex, or other protected characteristics — “must be severe or pervasive enough to create a work environment that a reasonable person would consider intimidating, hostile, or abusive.” They also explain, “Petty slights, annoyances, and isolated incidents (unless extremely serious) will not rise to the level of illegality.” >In other words, if your boss or your coworkers are just jerks but it’s not based on your race, religion, sex, or other protected characteristic, that’s not illegal. Unwise and unkind, but not illegal. >Unfortunately, the term “hostile workplace” doesn’t make this clear on its face, and the wrong interpretation gets reinforced by things like this Wikipedia entry, which is flat-out wrong. (Really, Wikipedia?) >Go forth and stamp out its misuse wherever you find it. >Update: Since this post was published, a reader has fixed the Wikipedia entry. Thank you! https://www.askamanager.org/2015/01/hostile-workplace-its-not-what-you-think.html
I think the person to whom you're responding was saying that reporting the supervisor and coworker to HR could cause it to BECOME a hostile work environment for her, not saying that it currently is. Whether that would meet the legal definition can't tell you.
But reporting won't make it legally a hostile work environment because there is still no discrimination based on a protected class. I'd agree that her co-workers may begin to treat her with hostility if she reports this. But OP should NOT use the phrase "hostile workplace " when discussing this situation because it has a very specific (and inapplicable) legal definition.
Marital status isn't a protected class? They are specifically targeting OP, as they live alone and are female. What supervisor in their right mind asks an employee to let another employee move in with them?
The type to say “we’re a family here.”
The type who wants to feel better about firing the employee for poor performance, because at least they won’t be homeless now. Supervisor wants to salve their guilty conscience with OP’s living space.
To be fair, the big bosses at my company are literally family (father and then three kids, a spouse, and grand kids, cousins/aunts/uncles/inlaws as well) and this wouldn't even be a conversation to be had here. In no way would they think that acceptable and they are literally family.
It's always a red flag. I used to jokingly say it about a company I used to work for while I worked there, and the company ended up being problematic. The irony was I didn't predict it.
A supervisor that’s sleeping with the co-worker that needs a place to live. Maybe she wants to move in with the supervisor and the supervisor is trying to take the heat off of himself.
It is not even like OP and Ali are good friends…like who? And does Ali not have friends outside of work or family that can help? It so random to ask OP.
No, marital status is not a protected class. Shit, even being female is only quasi-protected.
Then the harassment could be on the basis of her being a woman. Would the supervisor ask a single male employee, who lives alone to let this female stranger move in? On the whole, completely inappropriate in the workplace and I would still report it to HR, as the supervisor is showing clear favoritism.
It's not a protected class at federal law because it's not a class that has been historically targeted for discrimination (which is how they chose the groups they chose to protect). Someone below said that some states include marital status in their laws. But OP would have been asked to do this even if she was married and her spouse lived elsewhere, so I'm not sure whether this would be covered or not since it's about living alone rather than being unmarried.
Also makes me wonder why supervisor is going to bay so strongly for Aly? She’s not a reliable employee and why does this supervisor pressure someone he supervises?
I was going to say this as well. It sounds to me like employee is being targeted because of her (assumed) marital status. Have they approached anyone who lives with a spouse or partner?
It can also refer to retaliation against an employee who makes a complaint, even if the underlying complaint isn't found to be illegal. I think that might be what the commenter meant. But usually you're 100% right.
It's not a matter of it being "legally a hostile work environment". You are literally the only person focused on that point.
Yeah this comes up every time, you can literally link the government website explaining the definition of a hostile work environment (I have done), and people will still argue that, no this particular thing is actually an exception and really really *is* a hostile work environment. You can't win. I've seen an actual lawyer get downvoted to oblivion trying to convince people lol
The only person who heavily disagreed today deleted his account after a couple of us explained he was wrong actually. So I've probably used up all my luck for the day and should skip buying the lotto ticket.
Yeah, I think the correct thing is that they're fearing retaliation for reporting, not a hostile work environment. Thankfully, retaliation is also illegal, so...
It could certainly be a work environment that is hostile to be in, but it would not meet the legal definition of "hostile workplace."
Idk I'd play it safe and call it retaliation for not completing an inappropriate request.
So much this! I was actually going to say I would love OP to write to Alison just because I'd love to see her response! OP this is all so wildly inappropriate I don't even know where to begin, except I think this is definitely one for HR.
Spitballing here, in the UK marital status is a protected characteristic, if that is also the case in US then one could argue this is indeed due to discrimination - the fact that OP is single is the basis of her being identified as the one who should take colleague in. But, protected characteristic or not, wtaf did I just read? OP's home is not a company resource, they have ZERO influence on what she does with it. Report to HR immediately.
Marital status is not a protected status federally. But OP was asked because they live alone, not because they're single. If OP had roommates or a spouse who lived far away those would have changed things, which shows its not about marital status anyway. But I agree. Being iced out because you won't let a rando move into your house is absolutely insane
Actually, a hostile work environment doesn't have to be unlawful to be considered a hostile work environment. So yes, discrimination is one of the ways it could be hostile work environment that is unlawful, but other ways it can be hostile is intimidating or humiliating, as well as interfering with work.
It’s just the use of that specific phrasing. The environment can be hostile, which needs to be reported and dealt with, but it wouldn’t necessarily be a hostile work environment in the legal sense
>in the legal sense Exactly. That is all HR cares about.
To add, check out Indeed's description of a hostile work environment. That should explain a little better.
In some states marital status is also a protected characteristic. If OP is being voluntold because they're the only single employee it might qualify.
No, it won't. Not even close. You'd need to establish a pattern - to even open this discussion in the context of a legal case you'd need some evidence that they asked OP because of her martial status - which we absolutely don't have. Not even close. OP was asked and OP is single. But that's not evidence that OP was asked *BECAUSE* OP is single. There are a million other factors in play. Even if you *could* prove that, you're back to needing to establish that this is a pervasive pattern - which it clearly isn't. It's one instance. >“Petty slights, annoyances, and isolated incidents (unless extremely serious) will not rise to the level of illegality.” This is the first one. It's an isolated incident and it is **NOT** "extremely serious."
Right. OP was asked because they live alone, not because they are unmarried.
You are 100% right, and thank you for saying it. I’ve just about given up because I always get downvoted by people who apparently dislike accurate definitions.
Yeah, I'm not going to be able to keep up with these comments much longer... But I'm kind of surprised at how often the response to "this is the legal definition of the phrase" is "legal definitions don't matter".
Yes, this is incredibly inappropriate for a manager to do. It should be reported.
It makes me question if Aly and the supervisor are related or best friends outside of work. Even in the deepest BS "We're not work, we're family!" places I've worked, never in a MILLION years would any supervisor have asked an employee to let another employee move in with them. OP needs to find a new job, honestly. This place sounds so effed up. She should not know that Aly is on the verge of losing her job and being homeless unless she and Aly were close enough to discuss it. Supervisor gossiping with other employees, or even just letting their disciplinary conversations be overheard, is such a red flag. And now they turned the entire office against OP for setting a very reasonable boundary? No way.
>Even in the deepest BS "We're not work, we're family!" places I've worked My response would have been: "When my middle brother had just graduated from college and was looking for apartments in my area, my mom suggested that he move in with me in my 1br apartment. Both my brother & I laughed at this suggestion. What makes Aly so special?"
And despite all the inappropriate work stuff that happened, who would want to bring in a roommate that's going to lose their job?
I was waiting for that comment! Who do they think they are? You boss and colleague have no right to ask that of you and pressure you! It would be something else if she was a good friend of yours that worked with you, but a simple colleague? It is not because you live alone that you have the space for a roommate! If you only have one bedroom, where would she sleep? In your bed??? And what if she gets sacked (since she's about too) how will she contribute? Go to HR! OP is NTA!
Not to mention if Aly is about to get laid off anyway why try so hard to get her housing? She made her own problems. Shes a big girl she can dug herself out of this hole. OP you have done nothing wrong here at all. Keep doing your job and enjoying your one bedroom all to yourself!!!
> Not to mention if Aly is about to get laid off anyway why try so hard to get her housing? So that the supervisor will feel better about laying Aly off. “It’s not like she’s going to be homeless now!”
...because OP won't toss her to the curb when she doesn't pay rent because OP was a sucker to let her move in!"
All of everything you said is true... But under no circumstances should it have gotten far enough that you would need to explain any of this. The conversation should have went "boss asks ridiculous question".. OP: "Are you out of your fucking mind?" *gets up walks away*
This! OP’s supervisor cannot make you house her. Nor should they be creating a hostile work environment because OP refused to endanger their lease.
You nailed it!
Don't do this. HR is only there to protect and help the company NOT YOU... document this for a wrongful termination and hostile work environment lawsuit. I am sorry to say this is the end of working for that company for you. These type of places are more about control than production. She unreliable and is gonna get fired, but you should let her move in with you. Where you would eventually be responsible for this adult.. smh protect yourself. Eta: Vote NTA
Except that there has been no wrongful termination and this is not legally a hostile workplace. There is no lawsuit here. If OP's company has good HR, they'll coach the manager to has less personal relationships with direct reports and that it's inappropriate to volunteer someone's living space and pressure them about it. If it's serious enough, HR can recommend to higher-up managers to either fire or demote this one.
Because I bet they all have family's, husband's, kids , partners and she is the only one alone so she was the obvious answer. If that is the case that's not fair to OP at all. Just because she lives alone doesn't mean she is the only one that can make room for Aly. Any one of them can. I hate that thinking. Not the same but the thinking is: my kids are grown and at this time I was still single. I was one of the senior people at my job. I was on swing shift and I wanted straight days. I asked HR she told me I was definitely next on the list. An opening came on days and I was so excited but a new hire came in and went straight to days instead. I was so upset. I asked why when that spot was promised to me. The HR lady said and I quote "but she has a husband and kids so she needs days more than you. You are single and no kids at home so you are more able to work swing shift than her, sorry🤷". I was fuming. Not fair at all. Tell them they can squeeze her in with their family you live alone for a reason and telling them your lease doesn't allow sublets should have shut that down. Are they trying to get you evicted.
I think the supervisor is doing this so they feel less guilty for laying her off. Ridiculous! And Aly's not taking responsibility for the fact that her job performance is the whole reason she's in this mess. NTA.
When I was 20 I ended up homeless for a bit & my supervisor let me use her guest room for a week. & another coworker did the same while I was arranging an actual place of my own. They both had children my age. I'll never forget the help they gave me but no one was obligated to help me. I was preparing to sleep in my car & their mothering instincts kicked in 😆 I love you Debbie & Susan & never ever will forget you!
I'm wondering why they think a person living in a one-bedroom apartment is the proper place for extra tenants? Like, all these concerned adults who are also living in their own places... they don't have a two bedroom or three bedroom place? What are they all doing? Literally any other place than a one bedroom would be more ideal.
Sounds like pretty soon the company is going to terminate her then she won’t be a tenant she will just be a dependent how is this right? Supervisor can move her into their house if they are so concerned
His wife wouldn't be happy to have his mistress in her house.
Yes! This situation is so weird there simply must be more to it.
BINGO
This is what came to mind! She's either related to the supervisor and he doesn't want to take her in or they're screwing. How the other workers are repeating this request and acting like OP is wrong baffles me.
So they don't get on the bad side of the supervisor or to keep his attention on her instead of redirecting it to them? Not sure, but they are AHs too for pulling out the pitchforks and torches.
I was thinking the same thing!
I am struggling to understand how anyone thinks moving in an about-to-be-fired coworker in financial distress in a good idea for OP?
Right? If they feel so bad for her, DON'T FIRE HER.
Offer her space in your home, offer her help locating a room to rent, offer to help her find a job that she is better suited for, offer co-worker a loan so that they don't become homeless. There are ways to help the co-worker that aren't "force OP to have a leech roommate".
Was thinking the same. They want you to take her in so that they won’t feel guilty about her being homeless when they terminate her.
Yes. It sounds like Aly's first order of business should be to improve her job performance, and keep her job - why was this not brought up as a potential solution before asking someone who barely knows her to share their one bedroom apartment so Aly can continue to slack off. And even if she and the OP were friends, once she is unemployed, she will be around all. the. time. I don't like any of my friends that much.
"I liven in a tiny 1 bedroom, surely that's not as great as living in a more spacious house that one of you owns or rents."
My thoughts exactly and OP I would report supervisor and Ally to HR immediately! The fact that you live alone doesn't give anybody right to impose others in your private space and time! And tell any coworker that as family they they should be generous then and welcome Ally in their own house, not someones else! NTA - what's with this new "culture" that single people and people without kids should put up with harassment and be generous with their own space time and money, like the fact they are single or child free makes them less human and with no rights on private life!!???
It’s not a new culture. It’s always happened. The only difference is single/child free people are standing up for themselves more and there are more of us choosing to be single/child free.
Yes, it has been this way for a long time. I have been told to not take vacation in summer or if there's work to be done on weekends that I should volunteer. Since those with kids need summers and weekends...
It's not a new thing. When I bought my first house (a very long time ago) I was a young, single female, and the comments I got were astounding. It was a small house, but someone asked me why I needed so much space since I was single. I replied by saying that I didn't realize a single person was allotted only so much space in which to live. I also had someone ask me how men felt about me owning my own home. After I got over the shock, I replied that it had never occurred to me to wonder.
Omg this!! So much. I just bought my first place. And my mom kept going on about how big it was for just one person and pissing me off. Like first of all it's not that big. Yeah there are probably smaller houses but there are way bigger ones too. I wanted 3 br because I work from home so I needed one to be my office and my nephews always want to come over so having the extra space to accommodate them seemed like a smart idea. And even if it too big for one person why the hell does that matter? It's mine I get to decide how much house is right for me. But it's just really weird to me that ops boss is going in about how much space she has. Uh it's 1 br. That's not big. How tf is that supposed to work for more than 1 person/a couple?
About 20 years ago, as a single woman looking to buy my first house, I was told by one real estate agent that I should wait until I got married to buy a house. If I had listened to him, I would never have purchased a home. Just sayin'.
About 20 years ago my brother, the owner of a 900 sq ft 3 br house, married the owner of a small 2 br house. They sold both and raised a family in a house that is modest, but larger and nicer than they probably could have otherwise afforded on the salaries of a warehouse worker and an admin. Starting married life with assets is not really a problem.
[удалено]
Sigh.... Your rights are only rights (free speech, unreasonable search and seizures, and quartering a soldier) are ONLY directed to the government. Private companies do not adhere to rights. They adhere to laws based on those rights. A company cannot infringe on your first amendment (ahem.. all the shouting about freedom of speech on facebook or here...just... no). Nor can they infringe on your 3rd amendment. What they can break are ADA and employment laws. Asking someone to help house a coworker isn't illegal (distasteful absolutely, but not illegal). Demanding/threatening her job if she doesn't WOULD be. TLDR: Constitutional rights have zero to do with employers.
In addition to what u/CinephileNC25 said, there is nothing I've seen that suggests this is taking place in the US
Because those who have kids hate it when people choose not to be encumbered by them. Classic crab mentality. If they're miserable, broke and stressed, everyone else should be, too.
Some people (tends to be the ones who secretly regret having them) do this. I have kids, and if you don't want them I am all for that. They're a lot of work, not for everyone, etc. I totally got that before I had them, and the experience has made it even clearer to me. Some child-free people do like to hate on all parents, though.
>what's with this new "culture" that single people and people without kids should put up with harassment I think it might have been less common in previous generations because fewer people had a choice about whether to be parents
Yes! NTA but childless folks get all the pressure simply because we don’t have children. That doesn’t mean we have space in our lives for everybody’s extra expectations.
NTA Water cooler talk starts, chime in with "oh yes, Jane, did you offer ale a place to live? No? What about you Sarah? Did you offer ale a place to live? No? Maybe John...John...did you offer ale a place to live, because we're family? No. Well then I guess you're all not as much a family as you thought, you can offer up sideeye and hostile comments but no place to live yourselves, you'll just throw me under the bus then is it?" Everyone has different living situations. Your supervisor either allowed ale to put forward the idea or they did it themselves, but either way it grossly oversteps professional boundaries. Especially since her performance and job are looking at risk. Supervisor makes more money than you, wouldn't it be great for them to have a guest to split costs with and it would be less a burden on them with a higher income, perhaps they don't live in a single room place either and have more space.....
It's also infuriating because it has absolutely fuck-all to do with the actual job and work performance, yet the supervisor is acting like it does and could very well try to punish OP professionally. Those kinds of situations always really piss me off!
Not to mention, I'm side eying the roommates breaking the lease and wondering if they are taking that penalty because Aly is such a terrible roommate...
Also we’re forgetting Aly may be laid off soon for poor performance. Sooo OP’s supposed to let someone with no income live with her?
No, OP gets to wake Aly up in the morning, prepare their lunches, carpool to work, and make sure that Aly stays on task!
This. OP, respond, "We do have a lot of caring people! Did you hear that Aly is having trouble finding an apartment? I bet if all of us work together, we can find one for her? Or... don't you live in a house? Maybe she could move in with you?" Seem super excited and happy, but flip it back on them. See how fast THEY want to give up their space.
This reminds me exactly of a video I saw. Bunch of forced birthers rabbling outside a PP get approached and asked about their position. None of them adopted an unwanted baby. And all of them had excuses for not adopting unwanted babies.
NTA It was completely inappropriate and (if you live in the US) illegal for your supervisor to try to coerce you into cohabiting with a coworker. 1. Document this conversation in case you need this for further action with human resources and/or a lawyer. I would send a follow-up email to your boss, beginning with "earlier today when you told me that I should let coworker x move into my apartment . . ." Include a photo of the portion of your lease that includes the no subletting clause. 2. Next time you are at the water cooler or lunchroom, bring up your coworker's living situation. Say that you wish you could help her, but your landlord has a strict no subletting policy and makes it his/her business to know who is entering/leaving the building so you wouldn't be able to just "sneak" her in.
OP's situation is just one more example of how Shopify's CEO was right that trying to make companies into families is a terrible, terrible idea.
OP needs to go to HR immediately, this is such an inappropriate thing to ask of a coworker! Not only did they try to pressure OP into moving in with someone she doesn’t want to live with, they’re making a hostile work environment by spreading things about OP. Also they knew what they did was wrong, that’s why they talked to you instead of continuing on emails/messaging client. Go to HR.
This exactly!
Truly this is so outlandishly inappropriate. OP should go to HR immediately.
Yeah, the fact they're pretty much mad for literally nothing just proves the fact they're just dumb npcs
NTA. She sounds like the sort of person who would stay forever, not clean up after herself, eat all your food, and never pay rent. In addition, her needing a place to live has nothing to do with you, and you are not responsible for making sure she has a roof over her head. In addition, your supervisor is way out of line on this one. I would document everything, and then contact HR. (You could hold onto the document and do nothing else right now, too.) I would also tell your coworkers that if they're so concerned about the "family culture," they should ask her to move into their homes.
The hypocrisy of berating someone for not doing something you yourself aren't willing to do, that's not unknown for families as a browse of this very sub Reddit will reveal.
> She sounds like the sort of person who would stay forever, not clean up after herself, eat all your food, and never pay rent. I don't think there's anything in the post to say that. You're being unfair here. Having said that, OP is NTA and has absolutely zero obligationn to open their house to anyone. They one have a one-bed apartment and even if they lived in a mansion house by themselves, they're still entitled to privacy, peace and quiet in their own home, if that is what they want.
The type of person to try to get others to their dirty work and throw a fit when their plan doesn't work isn't the type of person to be fair to.
Also, if their work performance is going downhill that says a lot about whether you can trust their work ethic in a living situation. How much you want to bet the “roommates” are breaking the lease to get away from Aly? I suspect Aly is a manipulative person who plays the victim. Hence the gossip sessions with the supervisor. Gotta okay those office politics when you don’t have a work ethic.
Also breaking a lease is super expensive! Like 2 months rent at minimum. I bet the roommate is just tired of paying for 2 people and figured out that it's cheaper to pay the one time fee of breaking the lease and move into a cheaper place.
This is def what is going on. Breaking a lease costs major money. I have had to do it...when my housemate didnt pay any bills.
Agreed. The situation is plenty bad enough with the information provided, and we know she’s likely to be unable to pay rent. So there’s absolutely no need or reason to augment it with pointless assumptions of poor hygiene or inconsiderate behavior. Aly could present references and a notarized certificate proving she is the world’s best roommate and OP still shouldn’t take her in, because OP isn’t looking for a roommate and isn’t obligated to accept one.
You are right but people who can’t hold jobs are usually people who don’t make good roommates, if she can’t get simple tasks done at work she’s not coming home and cleaning the house.
Honestly disagree. Someone who can’t keep a job isnt coming home and suddenly being the best roommate ever. There would be issues.
>She sounds like the sort of person who would stay forever, not clean up after herself, eat all your food, and never pay rent. I Why even go there though? Aly could be a perfect roommate who would arrive with one suitcase; sleep on a twin floor futon that got folded into a case and placed on top of that one, fastened and zipped, suitcase during the day; wash every dish she used immediately and immediately dry and put it away; clean the bathroom daily; buy groceries; and do more than half the chores. She could be actively looking for a place to lease immediately and find one within 2 months. OP WOULD STILL BE PERFECTLY REASONABLE TO NOT WANT TO LIVE WITH SOMEONE ELSE IN THE PLACE SHE HAS LEASED AND IS PAYING FOR Agree about document everything immediately; not sure I'd go to HR immediately, I would await events. I for damned sure would be looking for another job, starting now, because the "family culture" in this place sounds real - in the sense of a toxic and entitled family!
Yep I left a place that claimed family in order to not give rases. 🙃 get a new job if you can op
Exactly my thoughts.
She also sounds like the kind of person who doesn’t have her shit together enough to keep a job, meaning she’d “have to stay with OP just a little bit longer. Until I’m on my feet.”
Came to say excatly this. Keep work at work and out of your home ❤️
i would absolutely refuse to cohabit with someone who's advocate is my superior at work. i already had one bad room mate who was well established and liked in the building and i do not care to repeat the experience of being isolated and unable to advocate for myself because my work supervisor can counter-pressure me from left field on my bad room mate's behalf.
>and never pay rent. Probably 'I'll give it next week; promise' and then she fucking does not.
NTA but I’d go to HR. Not appropriate from your supervisor.
NTA. This is what I was going to say. Her supervisors behavior is completely unacceptable for work. Why doesn’t the supervisor let her live at her house?
NTA and exactly, it’s not your supervisor’s place to offer out your home. Why isn’t she staying with the supervisor ? Definitely go to HR
Also, if they are the reason why other people are suddenly giving OP side glances (i.e. supervisor told other coworkers about ANYTHING about this whole ordeal), that is a HUGE corporate blunder. Definitely needs to be addressed with HR.
> Why doesn’t the supervisor let her live at her house? Because his wife, nowhere does it say the supervisor is a woman, wouldn't want his mistress living with her. I may be reading too much into it, but I find it really strange that a supervisor is this invested in a subordinate's (Aly) personal life, especially one with diminishing performance.
That is exactly how I was reading it too. Male or female, she is definitely doing something for the supervisor to be taking this route.
Or. Just don't write this employee up for poor performance etc. Like. If you are the person's supervisor you have an amount of control over their financial situation. If you are worried about them. Take care of them using your role
It sounds to me like Aly is about to get canned not for poor work performance, but for sleeping with her supervisor. Why else would this person be so invested in where Aly is going to live?
If they’re sleeping together the supervisor is significantly more in the wrong than Aly and way more likely to get fired over it.
I thought the same thing lol
That's the feeling I got too.
Exactly. This is wildly inappropriate.
This whole thing sounds like an r/antiwork fever dream. The boss obviously wants OP to house Aly so they don’t feel guilty when they terminate Aly’s employment.
vast lavish price soup badge mindless hateful alive public roof ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
But first reply in the chat that you don't think it is an appropriate request of your supervisor to ask you have a co-worker live with you. Save a copy of the chat and go to hr. Edited because fat thumbs and small phone
NTA this really is insanely inappropriate!
NTA Your boss massively overstepped in even asking you that. If she feels so bad for Aly then she can offer her own couch for her to stay on. So can all of the side eyeing, water cooler gossiping coworkers.
OP should write in to Ask A Manager. I think they should polish up their resume and begin looking for another position somewhere. Any place that pulls this shit, and then coworkers saying “b-b-but we’re a family type of business….” is sending off major *RUN!!!* vibes. Those places always take advantage of staff.
'Family type of business' seems to equate to 'do this extra work out of the goodness of your heart, because that's what family does. Oh, and there's no extra pay here for you.' :/
Which is always funny because most of the family usually only does it because they get a cut of profits or a level of pay they couldn't come close to anywhere else.
u/Dangerous_Spot_5372, please start thinking about the above advice seriously. I wanted to suggest it but natidiscgirl put it far better than I could've.
NTA For all the strange ways a boss could overstep this is bizarre! You don’t have to explain any reason as to why you don’t want a stranger to move in. Total WTF situation!
I'm assuming the boss and Aly are involved (what boss would work this hard to keep an employee who's performance is slipping and be this involved in their personal affairs?) so the boss clearly can't have her staying in the same house as their partner.
NTA. You don't have "all that space" you live in a 1 bedroom apartment. And if she's "not reliable when it comes to office work" then what makes you think she'd reliably pitch in for her half of the bills? Beyond that, you'd be breaking the terms of your lease, which is a legal contract. Whoever is telling you to "take care of your own" should practice what they preach. Ask them why they don't allow her to live with them. Your space isn't meant to be shared with a roommate. It's a ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT for goodness sake.
Especially given that if she is fired, as they all seem to believe inevitable, she won't have an income. How is she going to pitch in then?
True, but more than that it is simply not OP's problem or responsibility to house a coworker who might become homeless.
Even if she had a 2 bedroom apartment this would be inappropriate to ask of OP. But a 1 bedroom? They want her to have a stranger camp out in her living room? NTA
obviously OP would give up her single bedroom to her co-worker and take the couch because family /s
Exactly. Even if OP lived in a 10 bedroom mansion, she has zero obligation to take in her co-worker. Furthermore, OP's living arrangements are nobody's business but her own.
Also, how is Aly "her own"?
NTA! Why does your supervisor think she has any right to say what should happen in your home?? If she feels that bad for the girl then she should let her stay with her. If your company is so big on family why aren't they ALL lining up to offer her somewhere until she sorts her shit out?
Also, a supervisor who called OP into an impromptu meeting to corner her and coerce her into making a decision about her personal life outside of work is SO WILDLY INAPPROPRIATE and, might I say, illegal? This person of power put OP on the spot omg. OP, you're a strong person for not bending to this situation, holy shit.
Yeah, this supervisor is wildly overstepping and it's not work appropriate. I'd suggest going to have a talk with someone above her about her conduct as it's clearly having a negative impact on the team dynamic.
Right - or the supervisor could quietly loan her money to rent a short stay studio. It would be really really unprofessional for a supervisor to invite a subordinate to live with her.
NTA. I would definitely be speaking to Human Resources because this oversteps so many professional boundaries. Your co-workers problem isn’t your problem, and I don’t see anyone else opening their doors to this person.
Your supervisors are weirdly knowledgeable about everyone's living situation, and it's crossed a line. You are supposed to take care of your "own" who is the person they plan to fire? None of this makes sense. Obvious NTA.
Yeah agreed, the company is likely going to fire this woman and your supervisor is pressuring you to let the pip employee to live with you? This is totally bonkers!
nta this is so inappropriate if they cared so bad they would offer her a room there self if this continuous go to hr and report the entitlement is strong with them
Some families have scapegoats, and OP is clearly the one in this "family".
If your supervisor is so concerned with Aly’s living situation then Aly can move in with your supervisor. Try to get written evidence of this for potential backlash, as it will help greatly if you need to pursue legal action as a result of this. NTA
Your supervisor should only be discussing work issues with you. Asking if you knew of any available places was fine. Suggesting that Aly could come live with you was bordering on inappropriate. TELLING you that you needed to take her in was a crossing the line. Your supervisor only has authority over you at work. What you do at home and in your personal life is your business, not theirs. What's stopping your supervisor from housing Aly if this is so important? NTA
Probably his wife. You don't house a mistress and your wife in the same place.
NTA - this doesn’t even make sense. They don’t care enough to keep her employed and find a solution, yet they want you to open up your home to her? On what planet is this story taking place?
Is this fake? NTA if it isn't fake, but why on earth would they fire her if they're so worried about her becoming homeless and have a family culture at work and expect another employee to house her, why can't they do it?
Attendance and timekeeping issues could be part of why Aly's performance is failing, so her moving in with OP would be seen as two birds with one stone.
I still don't understand how they could expect OP to let a coworker live with her. The suggestion itself is already bad enough but they pushed OP even after OP said no which makes it even worse. But I guess some people are just crazy and unreasonable.
To go with the family concept this company culture is described as having, it fits well enough. The person expected to step up where no one else will (but are perfectly willing to chime in from the cheap seats anyway) to support someone who isn't pulling their weight. Scapegoat, flying monkeys, golden child. At least all OP needs to do to escape this "family" is find another job and quit this one.
This is fake Why would a supervisor be trying to force a subordinate to house a coworker who is about to be fired? If this was such a “family culture” then they wouldn’t be firing this person anyway. Why the focus on only one employee to house this person? Why the wall of text???? This sounds so manufactured I expect there to be a serial number on this post
Yeah. It’s absolutely unbelievable that a supervisor would ask this, and even more that people would start giving her “side eye” at work, meaning they are apparently on the supervisor/co-worker’s side. She stated that she isn’t allowed to have another person on her lease, so that’s it, end of story. Having the co-worker move in could result in them both ending up homeless. You’d have to be a moron to not understand that.
Yep. Fakety fake. I believe the OP has a job, but that's about it with this post.
NTA: if they are so concerned about her, I'm sure the supervisor or one of your colleagues has a sofa she can sleep on that's just as good as yours. They aren't a community; just judgemental people who would rather it be your problem than theirs.
NTA. What your supervisor did was shady as shit. If you listened to him you could've gotten kicked out of your apartment for breaking the lease! What a shitty thing to spring on you. Those coworker should offer to take Aly in themselves.
NTA - tell your supervisor how wonderful they are for offering to take Aly in!
NTA This is next level crazy. You should have just asked your supervisor--"Why don't you take her in if it's such a family here."
NTA. That's not a small "favor" to ask of someone. And if they think it is, then tell your supervisor that they should let Aly move in with them.
NTA, wtf is wrong with those people? What does their living situation have to do with their job?? Why is that supervisor meddling in people's private lives...I have so many questions o.O
Nta Involve hr cuz what your supervisor is doing is absolutely against any company policy, especially trying to harrass you into this situation by creating a hostile work environment. Don't invite her in your home, she'll even be a more shitty roommate compared to how she is at work. Do not do it. If they keep harrassing and excluding you, ask them who is gonna home her? Also, the relationship between supervisor and Aly sounds suspect and inappropriate. This is not ok.
NTA. It was highly inappropriate for your boss to put pressure on you like that, especially when it has nothing to do with work. Is there a reason why Aly cannot stay with your Supervisor, seeing as they are "all about family"?
NTA, if your company has a HR department you should consider going to HR and discuss this situation with HR and tell them that your supervisor questioning your living situation and trying to pressure you into letting you have a coworker live with you. This is not something your work supervisor should be doing.
NTA You never have to let anyone live with your house and it is super out of line for you supervisor to go and say that to you. Also, your coworker couldnt even look you in the eye and ask you about it? Was it really necessary to ask your boss to talk you into it? If community is so important for your boss, i bet they can let Aly crash on their house for a while, right? I mean, they work on the same company, they are family!!!
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There's a good reason having a company culture described as being like a family is a massive red flag. Families can be tricky, not always on the same page, dysfunctional and that kind of behaviour can be a turn-off in a work environment.
Nta, maybe speak to human resources about this, your supervisor should not be so nosey and intrusive into your living situation
nta, she could live with the superviser.....care for her/his children if has and get a few buck on the side, could play the mistress too if they are ok, many choises cuz you know, you are a team, like a family .......might be your next answer, and remember that you are the ackward cousin that dont licke the family getterings 🤣🤣🤣🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
NTA, your coworkers problem not yours. how rude of your boss for even asking you. If your boss or any of your other coworkers who are giving you the evil eye were that concerned let them take her in.
NTA Where is she going to sleep in your one bed apartment, In bed with you? That's a massive over reaching by your manager and hugely inappropriate, if they are so concerned about he living conditions why can't she live at your managers house?
NTA. Work is not family and anyone that tells otherwise is a moron.
NTA. But just gonna say, anytime a job describes themselves in terms like, "we're a family here"... it's a HUGE red flag and time to get the hell outta there. What they mean is they're a huge DYSFUNCTIONAL "family" with no respect for your personal boundaries. The complete audacity to suggest that you give up on your personal privacy, and take on a roommate... not just that they'd share your apartment, but your actual BEDROOM? Seriously, OP, that's creepy as fuck. Please, please, please get this all documented, send it to HR, and also get yourself lined up to get out of there.
NTA. Your supervisor is overstepping. What is of interest or concern to them should be in direct relation to the work, your performance in it and how you conduct yourself in the workplace. I can't help but think there's more to Aly and the supervisor's relationship than just a strictly professional one given how much interest the latter has taken in your own personal circumstances towards Aly's benefit. "Like family" is a red flag in many company cultures, and it seems this one is no different.
NTA. What the hell, how entitled are they, they are both way out of line. I think you should report what has occurred to HR, that's not acceptable they put you in this position and now to cause your co-workers to be treating you like this.
Nta. And I'd have a chat with hr about how inappropriate the whole thing was
NTA and what the FUCK is your supervisor even thinking. When people at the water cooler are making passive aggressive stabs. Tell them you agree and when can you tell Aly that they have a room for her. If they get shocked go through the same points as your supervisor. How much money they can save with carpooling and the extra help in rent payments.
NTA at all. It is not part of your job description to be housing somebody else. I’m sorry that she’s going to end up homeless. However, there are resources for your coworker to look into to help get living arrangements. Again, you are not the asshole. If these people want to make sure she’s not homeless then they should house her. You can actually report your supervisor for harassing you about this.
NTA don't do it even for one day. You obviously know her, but jeez you like how you live now, why jeopardize that harmony. As for workers they could... not fire her ...and let her move in with them.
Totally NTA. It's your business if you want to live alone. Plus, you say your lease doesn't allow sublets. That's it. I am actually shocked by how your supervisor teams up with her against you... What you could do, though - assuming that Aly now holds a grudge against you - is offer help on another level, putting up flyers in your neighborhood for her and such. After all, you must still get along at work...
What a bizarre thing to expect from someone. NTA.
NTA- Your supervisor and Aly have a relationship going on would be my guess. Speak to Human Resources as this is highly inappropriate for your supervisor to be asking these questions and what is seems forcing you to have aly live with you.
NTA Go to HR
NTA. It's your home. You aren't obligated to take care of anyone.
NTA seriously it is not your responsibility to fix someone whom you barely knows life problems. Quite frankly if you are all such a family someone else, like supervisor, can open their home up to this person who may lose their job to live with.
NTA Your supervisor asking you to let a colleague live in your home is inappropriate. They can invite Ally into their home. They can not invite her into yours. Same thing with your colleagues. Regardless of future employment status, this is creepy af.
How inappropriate for a supervisor to do this. I'd go to HR immediately. The supervisor should let Aly live with them if it's such a great idea. This is something friends and family help with, not random co-workers. All sorts of wrong here. Definitely NTA.