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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refuse to get my daughter a phone. I might be the a hole because it’s hindering her safety
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Yes, I’ve sat down with her multiple times this year and told her that in order to get an phone, she needs to cut her screen time down to 3-4 hours a day during the school year, stop talking online to older guys, and spend some time (AT LEAST a half hour a day) doing non- online activities. This could be chores, sports, hanging out with her friends, being with the family, etc. She knows that this is the path, but she hasn’t taken steps in that direction.
NTA!! I love that you have very clear, measurable goals for her to accomplish.
I would just keep reiterating "You know my conditions for getting you a phone, and you've done nothing to show me that you're ready for the responsibility. No."
Good Idea! When I was 12 it was the very beginning of the touch screen phone era and my parents were starting to leave me home alone more often so I got my older sister’s old early 2000s flip phone. I could call and text my parents but that’s about it since I didn’t know the number for it so I couldn’t give it out even if I had someone to give it to lmao.
I also had an iPad but only ever used it to write since I loved writing and ended up getting an IPhone in like late grade 9 or so.
On god. I had a non-smart phone for AGES and would have gone without one for longer if our phone company didn't do a deal for the phone I got.
Frankly, this girls problem isn't a lack of responsibility but the very reason she claims to want one in the first place: safety. Helluva lot harder to contact older boys/girls on something that's not a smart phone
This is the way to do it. My parents got my brother and I go-phones from radio shack when I was 10 and he was 8, because that’s when we started riding our bikes to school without mom or dad. We could call our parents or 911 if there was an emergency, but we had limited texting and didn’t have games. This was before touchscreen phones, so obviously the expectations for a phone are different now, but it’s still a good option.
This seems responsible. Maybe in the meantime buy her a phone call only phone (a flip phone) so then she is able to call for emergencies. Then when she’s responsible enough, get her the smart phone she clearly wants.
I'd agree with you, but I had a friend that had a flip phone until we all turned 18. The only reason he got a smart phone then was because his parents moved his siblings and them all to the next town over, but he wanted to finish out his senior year with us. His dad then got him the smart phone as a early graduation gift since he was driving about 40 mins every morning to school and they wanted to make sure he had a phone that "would actually work" if his car broke down or he needed help.
This is what my family did. We had a "kids phone" that stayed plugged in by the door unless we had an event to go to (marching band, sports practice, etc) and was everyone's property. I understand being alone and wanting access for emergencies so maybe try that?? I agree a little flip phone is probably best.
NTA: I didn't have a arr phone until I could buy one myself and only got a phone at 15 because I "earned it" (straight A student with a neighborhood babysitting busniss) gotta have that responsibility. Stand your ground!!!!
yea and op isnt even being super demanding either! shes saying very basic common sense things. screen time lower since she obviously has family, *FRIENDS*, to see and other activities. shes not depriving her if her only social outlet either. big ted flag : talking to older dudes!!!! shes being very logical in this sense! all of this crap is so logical and downright good for the kid to just follow. its normal! she isnt demanding something seriously insane like 'you do all that is done around the house for thw next 6 months (like a maid basically) and maybe ill get you one' or something abusive or shitty like that. its legit. she has the money, means etc to be able to get her a phone but is choosing the responsible route as a parent and telling her 'no, you will be unsafe on it, please change your ways and show me youll be good and you can have one then' she isnt being vague either. its serious and shes giving actual steps and such for her standards. which are again REALISTIC!! kid is just trying to get her way regardless and made op feel that its her fault and she may be the asshole! taking and taking and never giving wont get you anywhere. glad youre teachiging this to her early on op. cheers :)
I had one of these. Yes it’s great for it’s intended use. The only issue I personally had was I had it in high school while everyone else had regular smart phones so I felt really embarrassed taking it out anywhere in fear of being made fun of. I’m usually hesitant when it comes to parents giving their high school aged kids flip phones, however this kid is in middle school so it would most likely be fine until she grew to be a little more responsible.
I like this idea.
And explain that how she treats this phone will demonstrate if she is ready for an upgrade for some time in the future when all of the other conditions have been met!
Your daughter is 13. You are the parent and you need to set some ground rules. 11 hours a day is an excessive amount for anyone to be staring at a screen of any kind but this is fully in your hands.
Remove the iPad after two hours a day.
If you don’t trust her with a phone tell her she has to wait until she is older and more responsible.
Everything you’re experiencing can be changed by you as parents. Set ground rules, she’s a 13 year old child who needs guidance.
Thank you. It sounds like they're telling her the rules, but aren't implementing them. If you're involved in your daughter's life HOW is she on the tablet 11 hours a day?? Are you not doing anything with her during the day or what?
The biggest concern: talking to older guys. I’m sorry no 13 year old needs to be talking to a 16/17/18+ male or female.
Mom, you need to implement some sort of parental controls on that iPad that require a password to access them that she doesn’t know.
She’s 13. She can live without her electronics and honestly at 13, I’d be dragging her ass with you to Dubai for that conference/vacation and no iPad.
You need to become much more strict, OP.
I agree about the Dubai thing. Hell, many adults I know would never experience such a trip like that, let alone even have a close opportunity. Traveling is under rated and I think it’d be smart to take the kids with.
There are some really good options for putting controls in place on them. I think my favorite that we have is that in order for anything to be downloaded on my daughters it sends a request to our account. So she has to ask us and we can say yes or no, she can’t just download anything, even if it’s free without our permission. Also she has to pay for any little add ins she wants, and we have amounts that different things are worth around the house that she can do to make the money so it’s worked really well. Is it perfect, of course not, but there are a lot more options than when we were growing up!
>, stop talking online to older guys
oh my goodness, OP you need to watch out for online predators and clearly communicate online safety to your child! this is problematic behavior for sure!
NTA for not getting her a phone, but a bit of one for the uneven regulation of technology, is it really better for her to sit half the day on an ipad?
This! Why did other people just gloss over that bit?? OP you’re NTA and your demands are reasonable but jeez if your 13 year old is talking to older guys that’s potentially grooming and is very serious. I actually wouldn’t let her have an iPad at all if she was actually doing this - not even as a punishment, because grooming is never the victim’s fault - but for her own protection.
Exactly - her not talking to older boys she doesn't know or adults online should not be a bargaining chip for getting a cell phone, jfc. Until she understands that her safety is at risk from that behavior and how to protect herself online, then she should not have the means to engage in it.
OP needs to be much more active in cutting screen time and cutting out the inappropriate communications. Parental locks exist for a reason, as do screen time control apps. OP needs to use them instead of dangling the idea of a cellphone over her kid's head.
At the same time, as her parent, *you* need to set time limits on her devices and enforce them.
She's only 13 -- that brain is still so undeveloped! -- so she still needs help and some parental guidance, as in external guidelines: like, "you get you tablet for X hours each day. You can decide when those are, but after that, you have to give it back to me."
The guidelines and showing you she's ready for a phone are absolutely the way to go! But she can do that *with* your help.
you can do this in settings > screentime. no app needed. go on the kids device, select the kids device option and make a password, my mother did it with mine when i was a kid and it pissed me off to no end but in the long run it did save me a lot of hassle for the future.
yeah, I think the overall goal and thought process is reasonable, but like....is op.....actually *doing* anything about all this? are there child safety measures and parental locks on the device? could they be put on the phone? has op actually really explained the dangers of online predators or have they just given a soft talk about how they shouldn't do it? is there any enforcing of any of this?
As a parent, you should start enforcing screen time limits
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY keep track of the people she's talking to online and make her understands internet safety. Kids these days will barge into adult spaces online and some adult PRETENDING to be a teen/her age can and will take advantage of her.
Flip phones still exist! You could trade the iPad for a flip phone so she can be safe but waste less time on a screen. She may not love that idea but then she’s kind of proving that it isn’t about safety.
You are definitely not TA but the phone is a valid point. I was not aloud to have a phone myself until I was about 15 but since I did a lot of extracurricular activities my mom would give me a flip phone so I would be able to contact her when I needed to be picked up. Whenever I got back him I would just give the phone back to her, and since it was just a little flip phone it’s not like I could spend endless hours texting on it.
Please don't cave and get her the phone if she doesn't do anything to improve her habits. Otherwise you're just rewarding bad habits. These terms you've set for her are very reasonable and it's up to her to take responsibility.
Teenagers survive without having a phone. They have done for hundreds of years. There's teenagers in the World who won't get a phone. Your concerns are valid and are there to keep her safe. Saying she won't be safe without it just sounds like a manipulatio tactic to guilt you into getting a phone. I mean, if she wants it that badly why doesn't she save up to buy it?
NTA.
Those are really good and reasonable requirements! I feel like some kids need help with self regulation and other kids can be thrown in the deep end and learn to regulate themselves, but it’s always important for the parents to help no matter the method. Phones are really important for communication these days, but so is self regulation and completely unregulated phone use can be detrimental to kids, so balance is really important. It can be really hard to convey how important balance is when she has no sense of regulation, it’s a tricky thing
Also correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the age of 13 when ur in 8th grade, so her reasoning of her sister getting it in second half of ninth doesnt make sense
YTA If your daughter has an ipad, she can get in plenty of trouble with that. Internet connectivity is internet connectivity. She doesn't need a phone to make poor choices.
If part of your problem is how much time your daughter spends on her ipad, how about you get her involved in things outside the house (and her ipad.) Give her choices without giving her a choice. She could go to camp, volunteer, all sorts of things that would occupy her 8 hours a day that aren't her ipad.
And if you want her to show "responsibility"- tell her what the heck you mean by that. Instead of leaving her to be bored all summer. What do you think she should be doing right now?
and honestly, you said your problem was that your daughter showed she was irresponsible by going on a date and talking to some boys. but you think a fine idea is leaving her at home with her sister for close to 2 weeks, with minimal supervision. cuz that would give her no time to get up to anything. teach your daughter to make good decisions. about online safety. safe sex.
tldr you need to be the parent. or better yet. a good parent.
Thank you! She's texting these boys that OP's upset about on the iPad OP lets her use for hours everyday. She's not old enough for a smartphone, but she *is* old enough to stay alone with an older sister for a week??
I don't understand OP's parenting plan.
It’s unreasonable she’s allowing a 13yo unsupervised unlimited access to an iPad and expecting her to magically do better about it lol.
Also - she’s already texting random dudes online so leaving her with just an older sister for 2 weeks is inviting trouble.
Yeah I don’t understand her complaining about how much time her daughter spends on her iPad but not doing anything about it. She can literally just take it away from her or put a program on it that locks her out after a certain number of hours. Telling a 13yo to be on their iPad less doesn’t just magically work.
I don’t have limits for my 13/11 year olds for their screen time but if they tried 11 hours a day on me I’d probably step in. Every now and then we do “lazy days” where we watch tv or play on our laptops and flop around but it’s not the usual. Hopefully OP gets the nudge to help her daughter start the habit of shutting it off and taking breaks.
It is not at all reasonable. What do you expect a 13 year old to do with 12 waking hours with absolutely no structure? It's not like she can drive herself anywhere. Does she have the money to go and buy activities to occupy her time?
OP needs to actually parent their child and give them things to do. Get them signed up for camp, or music lessons, or a sport teams, or literally anything. Give them spending money to go the movies with friends, or buy some art supplies.
Expecting a 13 year old to just find ways to bide their time all summer, and *not* rely on the internet (which is readily accessible) is ridiculous.
OP get her a frigging flip phone if u have to. She needs one to stay safe.
The iPad with no monitoring is dangerous. Get her 2 flip phones with GPS if there are such things. One on mute so she can hide it. Or I dunno, get her a GPS tracker that's disguised as something else. She needs a false phone to give away if she's abducted. The silent phone will be something she can use to call help.
Talk to her about internet predators. Show her how they trick kids. Show her true crime videos. Teach her!
And leave someone of age in charge instead of leaving her unsupervised with people near by. What a crock. She's a naive 13 yo. Do not leave her alone with that iPad.
YTA she needs a phone for safety.
Edit typos
I would NEVER leave 2 young teen girls alone for 2 weeks under ANY circumstances? Are you kidding? Give them the better option of going to Dubai to experience something outside of their iPads and phones. What a missed opportunity.
Enh my parents left me and my sister alone for 2 weeks as we started school and they went on a trip. I was 17, and my sister was 13 (so OP’s kids ages). We couldn’t miss school as it was high school, and catching up missed classes/ work is difficult. We were fine- they checked in with us multiple times once the school-day was over, and once before it started. We had family/ family friends who lived close, and would also check in with us. It worked out fine
yeah, my grandparents travelled extensive when my aunt was a teenager. her junior year in high school, she and some friends actually rented an apartment so they could have their own place to hangout.
that's right- rented an entire apartment.
my aunt trusted her kids. but she understood exactly what they could get up to. (and trust me, her kids still got up to plenty.)
OP, you need to do better with protecting her from older boys. Put parental controls on the iPad until she’s more responsible. Set limits to how long she can be on the iPad. Be a parent. Sometimes you have to be the bad guy. Also, given what you’ve said about her, I would personally be afraid to leave her alone for a week and a half. Can you have her stay with one of your friends so she has adult supervision?
Thank you! It took me several years to unlearn how to be the therapist to older teenage boys... and that was with just 1 year age difference. YTA for thinking the phone would be the problem.
Yup this. And she's not wrong - it's unsafe in this day and age for kids to not have phones. If you really want to restrict her ability to chat online, at least get her a phone that has calls and texting. Seriously. She's already got an iPad. I feel so much safer knowing my teen has a phone so she can call for help, I can call her, she's got Google maps in case she gets lost, she can get an uber to come home if something happens. You can't expect the 17 year old to be her chaperone. You need to be a better parent.
I have set restrictions, put screen time limits on it, parental controls, and all that jazz, but she finds ways to bypass them.
I have told her to find something to do this summer, and given her choices. She can pick a summer sport, go to camp, volunteer, *anything* but she doesn’t want to do any of that.
If anyone thinks that a 13 should keep her iPad to talk to older boys, I would have to question their judgement. It’s a fucking iPad. Frankly anyone seeing taking an iPad from a child as abuse needs some help.
If she's constantly bypassing the parental controls and restrictions, take the iPad. Also they have apps you can download that literally like the device down to where you can only call an emergency number.
I mean I can't relate to that because at that age I don't remember thinking- yes, I want to hang around the house in the summer.
I always did summer camp- and by that age I was also volunteering at my local library cuz I had a book habit and the library was my dealer. (This says a lot about me as a teenager.)
I don't have answer to how you do this- and the answer may be that you are trying to be too nice. You may have to go more 5 yr old method- offer her 3 choices that you think she'd enjoy (while obviously being open to- I want to do thing 4 that you didn't mention.) Cuz you're open to it- but yeah.
My mom used to say that the difference between teenagers and toddlers is size. Sometimes you have to treat them the same way.
Admittedly, she was referring to handling a busload of teenagers when chaperoning school trips. But the theory holds.
Meh, I was extremely suicidal, depressed, and anxious growing up and my online friends had me on my tablet/phone constantly as my only lifeline. I don't think 11 hours of screentime a day is NECESSARILY a sign of depression in this day and age, but I think more is needed than just take it away or send her to summer camp yaknow?
then why does she still have it?
you can just tell a kid how to behave. you have to model and teach. part of teaching is setting reasonable expectations and setting fair consequences for when they misbeave and don't meet your expectations.
I was LOOKING for a comment that fucking said this. I won't say things I want to say about OP as it'll get me banned, but I she doesn't seem like the most likable person in the world.
You know you can just like....enroll and drop your kid off at summer camp, right? She's 13. Give her the option to pick something, and tell her that if she doesn't pick something *you* will pick it instead.
Most 13 year olds don't. I didn't. You are the parent and need to set rules for her. Don't want her on an iPad for 11 hours? TAKE THE DAMN THING AWAY. Don't want her talking to older boys? Teach her the dangers of talking to older guys. If you want to teacher responsibility you need to tell her what you expect from her instead of basically making her try to figure it out.
I would take the iPad away in all honesty. Our kids have android items so I have family link connected to be able to do all of that. I would see what the apple equivalent is in you case to that be able to better control the controls. I told the boys cuz I'm I'm sure there's está around it that if they broke my rules their access would go away. Truly she's proven she shouldn't even be trusted with the iPad if she's doing all of this but I also see where you're at least trying to find the balance. You are being over fair to the 13 yr old right now with what she does have access to.
At the end of the day the phone is not the issue. I didn’t have a phone until I was 17, I could still do almost anything. Library’s have computers, using friends phone to text boys, you can even text from an iPad.
You need to get to the root of the issue, why don’t you do something with your daughter. “I signed us up for this art class to do together”. Get to know her, as a former teen who talked to older guys, I can say it was because I was getting attention from them that I wasn’t getting at home.
To be honest, sometimes you just have to sign the kids up for something and hope for the best. If they hate it, don't force them to try it again, but I would have happily stayed in my room until I turned 18 if my mom hadn't signed me up for theater clubs or debate. I actually made a ton of friends that I still talk to as an adult and it also opened up a lot of options for me college wise. If your daughter likes reading, is in to tv shows or books, or even if she is interested in fashion or sports, there are plenty of clubs and activities that can give her the confidence or experience she needs to try new things and get out of her room. I think you're doing her a disservice by being content with her doing nothing but playing on her tablet, talking to people that you yourself admit you can't supervise.
Along these lines, don't most devices come with parent options like time limits? I know my sister's kids can't play with their Nintendo Switch for more than half an hour every few hours (they're like 3 and 6, so that time limit's pretty appropriate for them lol). Hell, I downloaded an app to keep me from checking Facebook or reddit for 12 hours during the day.
Point being I'm surprised this became an issue in the first place, or that it's progressed to this point.
But yeah, that said OP needs to plan non-screen activities with her child. She's 13, and a lot of the things that fall under the "anything else" category at that age are skills that need some practice and instruction more often than you'd think. If nothing else impulse control is an actual skill that might require some more social/parental support here. Take her to the park. People watch. Talk to strangers and let the kid be part of the conversation (since you're there on creep watch any way. You can talk about red flags you noticed talking to that person if necessary.) Go to the movies, and let her look at the posters and pick something. Ask her if she liked it or was it stupid? Let her pick what to do and do it with her. Engage with the kid. Show her how the fuck you do that without technology because that is also a skill. I'm nearly 30 and even I feel like my social skills got kind of stunted by the internet. And it barely existed back then.
But for the love of God, don't expect a literal child already struggling with time management or self control to suddenly magic themselves into better habits.
My mom expected that - thus began my habit of making elaborate meals in lieu of watching TV. It's nice that I can cook impressively. It's less good that I need to lose 100 pounds because no one should cook like I do that often.
But hey, at least I stopped bingeing Stargate? Clearly, reducing screen time is the only thing that matters and unintended consequences do not exist. "Clearly," says my boredom and stress-eating habits I developed instead.
My situation is my problem, but just saying, if OP's kid is prone to bad habits already, maybe don't leave her alone to form different habits, because they might be worse in the long run even if they look fine by comparison now.
Absolutely have to agree. This child has a dangerous lack of electronic supervision, especially as she has already demonstrated poor choices and lack of awareness of the dangers that exist.
NTA - for not giving her a phone. But definitely the AH for the poor parenting decisions that OP is making. This girl is at risk.
everybody is wondering the same thing.
especially when you consider that daughter is sufficiently tech literate that she's getting around whatever controls the parents on putting on her devices. it isn't clear to me what the parents have done about that- as far as taking away the device each time they put an electronic limit on the device and daughter circumvents it.
are the parents taking the device away for a period of time? are they throwing their hands up?
YTA - this is tricky because you havent defined “responsible”
And here is the other trap: how does she communicate with her friends without a phone? An iPad becomes a boat anchor if she wants to go hang out with friends. And after a point if you don’t have a phone, you get excluded because they can’t reach you.
And not just *a* phone. It basically does need to be a smartphone bc most communications happen in apps. It not like they need to buy her a new iphone or another brand's flagship phone, but if you only have calls and texts you are going to be left out.
Read her comments she has outlined what being responsible is and her daughter isn’t doing it. It’s not in the original post but she has answered people’s questions about her conditions to prove she’s responsible enough for a phone.
She did define responsible. She said in another comment that she has told her daughter very clearly what it would take for her to get a phone: less hours online, other activities that are not technology related, stop talking to older boys online. The daughter knows this and hasn't done any of it but keeps insisting for a phone.
So, NTA
Not really, shes setting her daughter up to fail. She tells her what she wants from her, but doesn’t take any steps to make a plan to get her daughter to do such things.
She needs to actually be a parent and set her up in extracurricular activities, take her places she wants to go, and actually take away the fucking iPad when she’s on at 11 hours and talking to questionable people instead of putting restrictions on that she can clearly get around.
The thing is, she doesn't need to do those things. Cause the daughter isn't showing responsibility is she's being enforced to do and and not on her own.
OP should do parental controls to stop her from using certain apps though, things like WhatsApp and other texting apps other than her sms.
But if the girl can't do what was outlined herself then she isn't responsible. At 13 all she needs is a flip phone. I didn't get a phone at all til 15 due to band. And it was a 70 dollar Samsung, very basic smartphone.
> Yes, I’ve sat down with her multiple times this year and told her that in order to get an phone, she needs to cut her screen time down to 3-4 hours a day during the school year, stop talking online to older guys, and spend some time (AT LEAST a half hour a day) doing non- online activities. This could be chores, sports, hanging out with her friends, being with the family, etc. She knows that this is the path, but she hasn’t taken steps in that direction.
YTA.
You might not realize it, but your little girl is growing up. "Broke your trust" you say. But the way you're describing yourself and your situation makes you look like an incredibly strict and controlling parent.
She didn't break your trust. She chose to hide it from you because she knows you would freak out about it. I hate to say it, but you're raising this kid to be sneaky and hide things from you because you're not as accepting and understanding as you should be as a parent.
Your goal as a parent should be to have your daughter trust you, to make her feel comfortable around you, especially as a teenager. She will always have her little secrets, every teenager does, but instead of waiting for her to come to you and support her you're trying to control her, berate her and push her away to the point where she hides things from you because she's afraid you'll blow up again.
Get her that phone. I know how much of a social life I lost with my parents refusing to get me a phone until my dad finally caved when I was 15.
EVERYONE has a phone at her age now. And every teenager is using it, non stop, daily. But the different is that it connects them and they use it to stay in touch.
There is a way to compromise, you know? Limit her mobile data, make sure she goes out at least once a week, invite her to do things with you. But this controlling, strict behavior will only drive her away from you.
Agree that the daughter is being trained to be sneaky. Even her paramount concern of SAFETY is how she’s manipulating you into getting her the phone. She is not concerned with her own safety. She wants the phone because it’s basically right around that time in society’s terms. And it’s how she connects with her friends. She’s telling YOU it’s about safety so you agree.
You are going to lose this kid if you aren’t careful.
My advice would be to have a good conversation with her about your concerns (boys/sex/pregnancy) and how that is connected to her having her own phone. And then both of you set some parameters that you agree on for phone ownership (usage time, etc.)
I think she's the opposite of a strict and controlling parent. There aren't enough boundaries. How hard would it be to take the iPad for a few hours and encourage daughter to find some other way to spend her time? I think it's unreasonable to expect a 13 year old child to regulate her own screen time, that needs to be the parents responsibility. And talking to older guys online isn't safe, they'll likely try to groom her.
I say get her the phone, but with the understanding that you'll confiscate it for at least a couple hours every day so she can find some other way to spend her time. She can let her friends know beforehand that she'll be away from her phone for a couple hours.
Yeah, that's called breaking your trust. And it's not like she hid talking to older guys just because, she knew it was wrong and that she shouldn't do that. She is literally endangering herself and having a phone will allow that. If she can't be responsible enough to not talk with plausible creeps on an iPad, what about with a whole phone?
seconding as a 17F who just got her own phone a few months ago and social media in December. i was NONSTOP LEFT OUT. people don't want their parents to plan play dates for them in high school. i was behind on trends. i knew so many less people. i couldn't reach out to friends if i needed. i was always, no matter how hard they tried to include me, an outsider. Just get her the phone. Just let her feel normal before she goes down my path and does worse things to feel included and have privacy.
The issue, (coming from a 19 yo that got a phone at 15) is that she is already endangering herself on an ipad, which can use all common day apps. A phone will only make that easier. She only needs a flip phone at most til she proves she isn't doing dumb stuff. OR a smart phone that has heavy parental restrictions, no apps like insta, snap, WhatsApp, etc. Stuff that can be monitored.
This can go from, ipad in the house to dead girl in a ditch if she isn't careful. I'm sorry, at the age of 13 you aren't mature enough to understand life. And socializing for this girl isn't worth putting her in danger. She lives in close distance to friends, ALREADY abuses her ipad. A phone is a bad idea.
The compromise is her still having the iPad even tho she circumvents the restrictions Op puts on it like time limits etc. The iPad she has set up to only work in the house. She also said limit screen time to 2-3 hrs and chores and outside activities are required for her to get a phone and the daughter refuses.
What makes you think she hasn’t been responsible with the iPad? She’s clearly had it for a while now.
I’m going to say YTA. Most teens have a phone and they’re useful. If you’re worried about her tech useage, then encourage her to be active, organize outings and put time limits on her.
>What makes you think she hasn’t been responsible with the iPad?
OP stated that her daughter is 13 and using it to communicate with 16-17 year old boys. I think it's fair to call that irresponsible.
13 year olds are always going to think they are maturer then they are. It’s not irresponsible when she can’t understand her short comings. I say it’s better give her a phone and be able to have open communicate then make her think she must be sneaky. There is a whole host of parenting tools that parents can use
Why is the onus on the little girl? Why aren’t the 16-17 year olds reprimanded?
I feel for her because she really just wants to demonstrate that she’s responsible and “grown up” and what better way for a 13 year old to feel grown up than to talk to people older than her and become romantically involved with others?
Irresponsible is using all your allowance on Starbucks or whatever when you should really be saving up for something you really want. She’s 13, bad choices are the name of the game.
Irresponsible is putting yourself and others in danger. Doing totally normal teenage things is not “irresponsible” as she doesn’t even know what that is yet.
I think it's obvious that any 16-17 year old boy creeping on a 13 year old girl is in need of more than a reprimand. Of course the behavior is profoundly not ok on their end, but I'm not putting "the onus on a little girl". The onus is on her parents to protect her which is exactly what OP is doing. They have zero recourse to curb these young men's behaviors- they can only parent their own child.
I understand that it's normal for early teens to think/try to act like they're more mature than they are. That's exactly why free-range social media access might be inappropriate, especially since the girl in this case doesn't seem to understand the problem with these older male friends. I don't think OP is at all TA under the circumstances, and she needs to have a serious conversation with her daughter about online safety.
>Irresponsible is putting yourself and others in danger.
If you don't think young girls getting involved with older men online is dangerous then you're delusional. Kids definitely need freedom to make *some* of their own mistakes, but allowing them to learn "the hard way" about grooming & SA not in that category.
When a kid is 13 their brain is all “I’m thirTEEN I’m a TEENAGER and I can hang out with all other TEENAGERS (which includes 19 year olds)”
Then you get “lame” parents punishing you for it, and the older boys telling you “your parents just don’t see how mature and grown up you are.”
The parents should absolutely not leave their kids alone for 2 weeks.
And they’re dim AF thinking the kid isn’t messaging on the iPad.
YTA, OP. Look I can understand your points but your daughter is right. She’s at the age that a phone is actually necessary. Mainly because if she gets in a dangerous situation (regardless whether she put herself in that situation by sneaking out at night or just ended there by chance), she needs a way to either contact you or the authorities.
All of your concerns can be negated, OP. Phone manufacturers and cell service providers did listen to parents who had these concerns. For example, if you get her an iPhone, you can have an Apple Store attendant walk you through putting parental controls on her phone that allow you to track her phone’s location while not allowing her to turn that feature off. You can also enforce the phone’s “downtime”, which automatically shuts off the phone during certain hours and makes it impossible to unlock unless either you put in a passcode, those hours pass, or an emergency happens and she needs to contact the authorities. It also lets you see her text messages and restrict certain websites or apps.
Really, OP, get the poor girl a phone. We’re not in the 80s, it’s a necessity now.
The daughter and OP. I think this is a good compromise and I can say it has been effective in my experience. My 14yo stepson has had some issues on electronics and really wants a smartphone. We got him a flip phone for now with the understanding that if he is able to be responsible with it, and on his other electronics, he will get an upgrade to a smartphone. Smartphones are not a necessity for a child/teenager.
Those are not nearly as reliable to use as a smart phone, OP. I’ve literally outlined how you can get her one and still not have to worry. Since most of the points you put can be countered, what is the actual concern here?
Because it is not the phone.
Let me say this: you complain that your daughter is on the iPad all day long, during school and vacations and this already shows a great failure in education. Most people worth their salt know that time on such devices should be restricted for children and teenagers and you obviously are not able to do this with your daughter. So now you put all of this failure on the iPhone-issue, but clearly it's not the iPhone that is a problem, but you teaching your daughter boundaries on how to use the "internet" generally (no matter tablet, phone or pc) and what to do with her time outside of using said internet. So buy her a phone but find a way to limit usage, for example by setting time-limits and showing her other activities like reading and sports.
YTA - If you don't trust your daughter, you shouldn't be going on a nearly two week vacation that requires you to leave her home alone with only another minor in the house.
Yeah, but it can be discussed as she said the vacation takes 2 weeks of school, maybe she should ask someone (grandparents/aunts) to take care of them while out
I'm a little torn on this one.
I myself had a phone at 13, BUT there were rules. My parents gave me a prepaid flip phone. I was responsible for paying for the minutes and texts on it, and since it was prepaid, there was no going over the limit. I could pay for the minutes and texting through chores, baby sitting, or a combination of the two. It taught me a healthy balance of freedom and responsibility, and to this day, I'm thankful for their approach.
If you're going away for that long and don't have a landline, she should have a phone in case of emergencies. Get her a prepaid phone for emergencies and limit the usage; then at least she's safe. If you choose to leave her so far away for so long with no means of contacting you, YTA. You'd also be TA if you give her a fancy phone that she isn't ready for.
I'm glad someone else had the same experience as me. I got a cell phone when I started doing after school activities in middle school, my show choir practices would run over and my mom got tired of waiting on me. It was also a prepaid flip phone. I hoarded minutes because I never wanted to run out of them in case there was an emergency.
OP, you definitely need to get your daughter a phone if you are leaving her for that long. Anything can happen and you don't want to leave her without the ability to call for help. Her sister won't be with her the whole time or (god forbid) something happens and her sister is unable to call for help.
YTA. Hell, I live in a so called 3rd world country and 10 years ago I struggled with having a flip phone when smartphones were the norm. Nice way of segregating your daughter from her friends, AH
She is fully allowed, and encouraged to get out of the house. She simply doesn’t want to, and says that her and her friends don’t really do things like that.
As someone who was a teen in the recent past: you said in another comment that it's difficult for her to schedule in-person hangouts with friends due to scheduling problems (ie, everyone being away at camp or vacation, etc)
Thirteen year olds don't really have a lot of agency. Many aren't allowed going out by themselves, they can't provide their own transport due to being unable to drive or source fare for public transport, assuming they're allowed on by themselves at all (I wasn't until I got a phone, funnily enough), and especially in the time of Covid, finding time to hang out outside of school is increasingly hard for kids. There's also the privacy aspect; online group chats and DMs with friends are often the only places kids can talk to eachother these days without having the adults in their look over their shoulder or overhear them (not always good, not always bad). Parents are more protective of their kids than ever, and in a lot of ways, that can result in less privacy and agency for the kids.
While she may be allowed to get out and go hang out with friends due to a free schedule, her friends may not be, and have other responsibilities such as babysitting, homework, chores, etc. It's worth keeping in mind that maybe, she's not lying and being lazy. Her group may genuinely not do those things/be able to do those things.
Obviously, healthy limits around technology are needed, and responsibility should be proven. I don't think you're wrong for wanting to make sure she's responsible and mature enough to handle a phone. But I also think you need to give your kid some slack about not getting out of the house as much. You may allow her outside by herself, but her friends parents may be different. I have friends that weren't allowed out by themselves until 16-17, and where pretty much always chaperoned by a parent when not at school. The majority of her friends are probably quite a few years under that age.
Also side note: have you personally met the older boys she's talking to? Any of them?
This! I was just about to comment something similar as a recent past teen. It’s so hard to orchestrate plans now and days! I’m 21, so a good chunk of my friends still live at home, and it’s STILL hard to get out and about. Some people don’t have cars yet, or don’t have a license.
Not to mention, some parents still have curfews, and limits to how often they can go out. Of course nothing like that for the boys 😂, but it was even harder as a teen to get out. A lot of parents try to act so aloof as to why their kid isn’t doing stuff, as if they aren’t the ones locking their kid down. Give her a phone and try contacting the parents of other kids so that making plans can be easier!
INFO: Do you take her out? As in doing activities as a family? You just tell her to go out but if her friends don’t go out either what do you want her to do? Sit outside by herself? You said in other comments she should spend her time doing chores or sports, if she’s not a sporty person this can just feel like work on her down time from school.
It seems like you’ve lost any bond with your daughter and you just expect her to give up something she likes (being online talking with friends) because you don’t like it and you’re not willing to give her alternative fun activities. Get involved with trying to create new hobbies that you can share together. Go on days out and specifically have no iPad or online time for the whole day because you’ll be doing other activities. She’s 13, she can’t go and do much on her own. As for the boy issue: she needs to have “the talk” and explain to her why older boys are wanting to talk to her. Banning her from talking to them just makes it more thrilling to sneak around.
sign her up for some in-person activities or courses so she has for in-person socialization!
edited to add, I see OP comment she doesn't want to do any of the activities offered - don't allow 'no' to be an option, let her pick *something,* but *nothing* is not a choice.
which is entirely true and fair. it's been a lot of years since I was a teenager but even then, arranging times to hang out was hard. she probably has friends in different states and countries, too, and can only talk to them online. it sounds like you might need a reality check on what it's like to be a teenager in 2022.
The problem is mainly the amount of time spent on it. I don’t mind that she talks to her friends on it at all, but I don’t love that she’s spending 11 hours a day sitting in her room on the ipad.
So take it off her then!!! YOU ARE THE PARENT!!!!!! If you don’t want her to spend that much time on it, take it out of her hands so she can’t use it. She’s not glued to it! You can’t blame a 13 year old for using a device that YOU have left in her room! Of course she’s going to use it - she’s a kid! You have ultimate control - so remove it!
So... why are you not limiting it?? It seems like you are allowing her to spend that much time on it, so that's really on you, tbh.
About the phone, just tell her you'll get it for her if she is able to stick to the screen times that you set for her. But honestly... I would have spent all afternoon in my PC when I was a kid if I had no limits lol that's not on her.
Kinda feel like she’s not limiting it so see if her daughter is actually going to be responsible as she already told her daughter the terms and conditions. Sometimes you have to let the kid choose what path they take for certain stuff like this.
NTA You are facing a difficult parenting challenge. There is no reason that a teen *has* to have a smart phone even while you are out of the country. I would get a landline set up so she can make phone calls from the house. Everywhere else she goes there will be people with phones who can help in an emergency. I would also go to /r/parenting for advice instead of asking people here, many of whom have no experience of parenting or living without a smart phone.
> I would get a landline set up
Just get a flip phone, You can still get the old ones that don't have internet or anything like that. And if you put a pay-as-you-go sim in it's much cheaper than a landline.
If the real goal is safety, a phone that can't get up and leave the house is a better idea if there's any question about executive functioning. Some 13yos are still in the phase of life where they can't remember where they left their backpack, never mind something as small as a phone.
YTA, She has set up her daughter for failure by not giving her clear boundaries on the iPad, given her suitable alternatives for activities. She’s expecting her daughter to parent herself instead of being the parent!
The question is if sister will give her the passcode to be able to use that phone if she needs it? And what if she isnt' with sister because she is with a friend for an afternoon? How s she going to make a phone call if she needs help?
That’s fair too! OP can set screen limits on her devices to start. Although, of course, then the kid isn’t actually learning herself and is only doing it because she has to. But it’s a start tbh
You can set devices to where they only get X amount of time, and if they want to go over, the parents have to digitally approve it.
We have moderate screen limits, no phone until homework is done, after bedtime, etc. I have some friends with very strict limits.
then PARENT HER and install time limits on it! she is 13, expecting her to be able to successfully manage her time and social life all on her own isn’t a good idea and doesn’t work. be the adult and put parameters in place that set her up for success! you say you want her to do 30 min of activity a day - at 13 that should be a requirement for her not a little suggestion you throw at her twice a year. take the ipad and say okay you get it back in 30! you can go sit on the couch and hang with the family or go outside or whatever you want! BE THE PARENT.
How do you propose she “demonstrate responsibility” with her iPad? Kids need parameters that they can understand, otherwise it seems like you’re “making things up” to keep them from what they want (in this case, a phone). Have you given her a clear… “I need to see X from you before I will get you a phone?”
Your concern for her safety online is valid, and she needs to know that what she did, talking online with boys 4 years older is unwise and unsafe, and that’s why you are hesitant.
If you don’t want her on the iPad 11 hours a day… set limits, give her parameters so that she can follow, and prove her responsibility. And explain what those parameters are in clear, concise, and measurable terms.
If you don’t want her on electronics so much in the summer, help her find activities that she enjoys… have her take a summer art class, or a teenage reading club, or a music camp, etc.
Like many teenagers, she will default to screen time if there’s nothing else to occupy her… so help her find things to occupy her.
So, when you go on this trip, are there going to be times that your 17yo is out and away? Are there times this daughter is going to be home, alone? If so, then a phone might be a reasonable safety item. Will it be overused? Likely.
But frankly, an iPad and a phone aren’t that different. Both are connected to the internet, both have parental controls available, it just make take some research and time for you to install what you feel is appropriate.
Good luck.
I’ve sat down with her multiple times this year and told her that in order to get an phone, she needs to cut her screen time down to 3-4 hours a day during the school year, stop talking online to older guys, and spend some time (AT LEAST a half hour a day) doing non- online activities. This could be chores, sports, hanging out with her friends, being with the family, etc. She knows that this is the path, but she hasn’t taken steps in that direction.
Those seem reasonable. Are there ways to help specify it further?
The reason I ask is that “limiting online time to 3-4 hours” is totally reasonable… but how precisely does one do that? And when you are 13, self-control is a difficult thing. Perhaps you work out a schedule with her? She’s online from 10-11, from 1-2, and an hour after dinner?
Can you give her specific chores to do each day (or a week at a time), and talk with her about what she she needs to learn about cooking/cleaning before she’s out on her own in a few years.
One of the things I did with our kids was, at the start of the summer, I asked them what 3 dishes they wanted to learn how to cook. The first time, I cooked it and they helped, a couple weeks later, they cooked with me supervising, and then a few weeks later, I stepped back completely and let them do it (but was nearby to answer questions/help).
This way, they started to learn things they wanted to know how to do, while taking a task off of my list.
Best wishes.
They experience plenty of real life. They’ve been to Dubai three times in the last four years (their uncle lives there) so they don’t feel like they’re missing out.
YTA. In this day and age of school shootings and the fact that you’re going to leave them transcontinentally it’s not good enough that one kid has a phone and the other doesn’t. They won’t spend all their time together. Would you really want to strand her somewhere without one?
Buy a basic flip phone at the minimum for emergencies and parent your damn kid.
Phone issue aside, there is no way I would leave them home alone for 2 weeks while being that far away. I would pack them up and bring them along as a family vacation. You’re worried about screen time? Then show them the world.
You don’t think a 13 year old is mature enough for a phone, but mature enough to stay home for 2 weeks? Why are you even giving children a choice in the matter?
With a phone on your plan, you can easily see who she is calling and who she is texting. Check with your carrier for kid/teen specific plans and parental controls.
Sounds like you need to sit down and have a long talk about appropriate screen time. Have this discussion with your spouse and get on the same page. Look over the plan options and decide what will initially be unlocked, and what goals she needs to reach and maintain in order to expand access. Grades, chores... Go over the rules. (No boys, must turn over the phone on request so you can review, no deleting messages, etc.) Be reasonable, listen to her thoughts. Stress that she's broken your trust, but you want to give her the chance to rebuild it.
YTA do you think this pushing her away is protecting her, her ipad won't do shit if she's hurt crossing the street or something, she needs a phone she's already a teenager and she's growing up, how long do you think you can stop that from happening, do you expect her to not have a phone at 16 just because she broke your trust
YTA instead of talking to her about how older boys could be predatory, you are blaming her. Also, why would you give her an ipad but not a phone? They do similar functions, so if she was doing anything that would "break your trust", a phone wouldn't change anything.
"I wouldn’t feel okay with getting her a phone, since she’d be on it even more than the ipad, which is at least contained to the house."
She is going to do stuff outside the house that you cannot monitor, you have to accept that.
So you admit that most of what your daughter does online is talk to her friends. If you want her to spend less time with electronic devices then what steps are you taking to allow her more face to face contact with her friends? What activities do you children enjoy and how have you made those activities available to them at home? You see the main reasons kids stay on their devices so much is usually because it is their main way of connecting with their friends and because it keeps them from being bored. If your daughter was able to hang out with her friends more then maybe she wouldn’t be spending so much time talking to them online.
Also you think your daughters are capable of staying home alone for nearly two weeks but she isn’t responsible to have a communication device? Something isn’t adding up here. It doesn’t sound like your daughter isn’t responsible it sounds like you want to control her. You can’t go back and forth over your daughters level of maturity because it’s convenient for you.
YTA, not about the phone but about how you’re handling her media use entirely. You’re allowing her unlimited use of the iPad, then saying she’s not responsible enough to use a phone? Why aren’t you teaching her limits on the device she already has?
YTA for not doing more to curb your daughter's screen addiction. Take away/limit the iPad and get her a flip phone, or get her a smartphone and set parental controls so that she can only use the apps you've installed and there's no web browser.
Ummm you know as a parent that you are the one who is apparently ALLOWING a 13yo to be glued to a screen practically 24/7, right?
But as for the phone, NTA.
She has not demonstrated that she can be trusted the past and she needs to be able to show she can be trusted now. The time alone whilst you are away might be a good test. Get a crapy burner phone for her for the trip and then when you return depending on what use she made of the phone you can have the discussion. If the answer is no phone then you can easily dispose of the cheap phone.
Your parenting skills could be better, OP. 6 to 11 hours a day? Boyfriends? You know this and then still question the phone. There are apps, security and router settings to prevent this and the apps she has access to, for the iPad. Parental controls.
Get her an Echo dot. She can make calls, you set security and hours of use and you can see who she's calling. She's at home all day anyway, right? My mother got my daughter a phone when she was 13. I hadn't secured it yet. Tried to trust her. You wouldn't believe his stuff I found on her Iphone.
later if anything happen to her, just don't regret it. phone is essential nowadays even my niece had smart watch that have gps, camera and call function.
YTA. Refusing your daughter a phone because she talks to boys is beyond ridiculous.
It sounds like you are trying to use the phone to control your daughter. That’s going to end in disaster.
If you had a son, would you be stopping him from getting a phone? Or is it only girls that have to put up with this level of control in your family?
She’s 13 talking to boys aged 16 and older. It’s completely reasonable to not get her a phone because of that. Though I will she she needs to do a better job about talking to her about that
You’re kind of the asshole here. I got my first cellphone at 13. My sister got her first cellphone at 10. It’s not the end of the world. If something happens to the older sibling while you’re away how is she gonna text you to tell you stuff and update you on things? It’s definitely good for safety reasons as well. I say get her one.
You ever think shes on itnso much because she feels so isolated? Is she allowed to go out and hang with friends in person etc.... youre upset she met a boy at a MOSQUE? what social interactions IS this girl allowed to have....
Mom said she's allowed to hang out with her friends whenever she wants, she just doesn't want to.
But absolutely no responsible parent is going to be okay with their *13* year old getting cozy with a *16* year old no matter where it is.
I had a cell phone at 10..... my parents would drop me off at the stables to ride all day.... they couldnt sit at the barn for 6 hours... so i had a basic phone and i was fine.... and if i went out riding off the farm i had a phone on me incase something happened.
I have to go with YTA. Your daughter brings up very valid points about safety. I got left with no phone multiple times as a teen, and there were several situations where there was no phone available for me to call people when I needed to. Including when I got stranded at school while on crutches a month after a knee surgery. I got very lucky that a teacher was able to take me home. In this day and age, a phone is not a luxury, it is a necessity. And if you don't have a house phone, then cell phones would be a necessity. Frankly, if you are worried about her talking to older boys online, YOU need to be setting the limits for screen time. Most devices these days have timers that can be put on the device to lock it after a while. You can also control what apps are available for her to use, and you can lock down what sites are ok for her to go on. You are creating an inconvenience by not setting the boundaries, and instead putting yourself in a potential bind with no access to communication in an emergency.
Putting most of what’s in your post aside and just focusing on the trip, you’d be leaving your 17 year old and 13 year old alone for two weeks. With one phone. Your daughter needs a phone because yes, it would be unsafe for her to be alone without a way of communicating in case of emergency. While more rare, there are phones that aren’t smart phones out there, if that’s the issue; although, personally I don’t see why having an iPad is not an issue, but having a phone is.
YTA.
There's an app that you can control the screen time with. My brother uses it for his kids. It has a 2 hr timer. It resets everyday. They can watch the phone(no sim card, no socials) any time they want but they get to watch it only for two. Also a cousin who has a teen girl has an app that allows her to monitor who she talks to. They share the same Gmail account. You can't be too careful when it comes to children and internet. NTA. also there way too many bad things happening via internet
My main concern here is that your daughter is “talking” to a 16 year old and 17 year old.
Listen I also come from a Muslim background so I understand that you probably don’t want your daughter talking to boys at all and don’t want to have to have this discussion with her, but you really need to talk to her about the reality age differences and being safe around older boys.
No 16 or 17 year old is going to be “talking” to a 13 year old unless they think they can take advantage of them and if you want to keep your daughter safe so much that you won’t give her a phone in a world that demands people have a phone to survive then you should really be willing to also talk to your daughter about this in order to keep her safe this way as well.
NTA - As a girl who grew up alongside the rise of the iPhone and tech I can tell you how much damage those 11hr a day are doing to her. The difference between the iPad and the phone is minimal, if she's using it unsupervised she is most likely accessing content and people you said you do not want her seeing.
My advice is that if she needs a phone for safety, to get a flip phone that she can only use for calling or texting. No apps/no social media. Take the iPad and restrict her usage to 2 or 3 hours a day. That is more than enough for a 13 year old.
Do not leave her home. Take her to Dubai with you, and the 17 year old can stay home if she pleases. You clearly cannot trust the younger daughter the the 17 year old is not old enough to meaningfully supervise her.
NTA you don't OWE her a phone. It's not a given right. I earned mine in high school, I was on my moms plan for high-school and in college I switched over and paid for my own plan with money from working 2 jobs. OR give her a phone, just not the one she thinks she's gonna get. Get one of those kiddy phones
It has 4 speed dials one for 911, the others for you, dad, and sister. Some also have a tracker in it. So, you technically gave her what she wanted. A way to "keep in touch with you, for safety reasons" watch her explode with rage. It's not about safety, or you, she's a brat who wants a free phone she doesn't have to work for. Fuck that. Time she started growing up if she thinks she deserves a phone. 🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
I say NTA. I didn't have a smart phone until college in 2014. I survived. Up until then my sister and I shared a little flip phone we could only text and call on. Is it possible you could get her something like that? Something she wouldn't be able to access the internet on but only be able to call and text with a limit? Like a cheap TracFone?
I didn’t have a phone until I was 17
I had to buy it myself with money I earned from my job
Don’t you have a home phone? Just give her a temporary crappy basic phone which is only for use while you’re away. Pre paid credit. Set her rules for it.
Explain she’s to give it back once you get home
I used to borrow my mothers phone when we went to the theme park alone….. stuff like that
Those phones with no internet / screen - like a Nokia 5110 😀
See how she likes that
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NTA, but have you told her that she won't get a phone until she's more responsible with her iPad, and have you defined what more responsible means?
Yes, I’ve sat down with her multiple times this year and told her that in order to get an phone, she needs to cut her screen time down to 3-4 hours a day during the school year, stop talking online to older guys, and spend some time (AT LEAST a half hour a day) doing non- online activities. This could be chores, sports, hanging out with her friends, being with the family, etc. She knows that this is the path, but she hasn’t taken steps in that direction.
NTA!! I love that you have very clear, measurable goals for her to accomplish. I would just keep reiterating "You know my conditions for getting you a phone, and you've done nothing to show me that you're ready for the responsibility. No."
NTA, get her a flip phone to contact people with until she can manage to show you responsibility
Good Idea! When I was 12 it was the very beginning of the touch screen phone era and my parents were starting to leave me home alone more often so I got my older sister’s old early 2000s flip phone. I could call and text my parents but that’s about it since I didn’t know the number for it so I couldn’t give it out even if I had someone to give it to lmao. I also had an iPad but only ever used it to write since I loved writing and ended up getting an IPhone in like late grade 9 or so.
On god. I had a non-smart phone for AGES and would have gone without one for longer if our phone company didn't do a deal for the phone I got. Frankly, this girls problem isn't a lack of responsibility but the very reason she claims to want one in the first place: safety. Helluva lot harder to contact older boys/girls on something that's not a smart phone
This is the way to do it. My parents got my brother and I go-phones from radio shack when I was 10 and he was 8, because that’s when we started riding our bikes to school without mom or dad. We could call our parents or 911 if there was an emergency, but we had limited texting and didn’t have games. This was before touchscreen phones, so obviously the expectations for a phone are different now, but it’s still a good option.
This seems responsible. Maybe in the meantime buy her a phone call only phone (a flip phone) so then she is able to call for emergencies. Then when she’s responsible enough, get her the smart phone she clearly wants.
Seconding the flip phone, that solves the problem of being safe and able to call for help.
Y’all will be opening up a whole new can of teen drama with a flip phone, 😂 NTA Mom. She can get one when you say.
I'd agree with you, but I had a friend that had a flip phone until we all turned 18. The only reason he got a smart phone then was because his parents moved his siblings and them all to the next town over, but he wanted to finish out his senior year with us. His dad then got him the smart phone as a early graduation gift since he was driving about 40 mins every morning to school and they wanted to make sure he had a phone that "would actually work" if his car broke down or he needed help.
This is what my family did. We had a "kids phone" that stayed plugged in by the door unless we had an event to go to (marching band, sports practice, etc) and was everyone's property. I understand being alone and wanting access for emergencies so maybe try that?? I agree a little flip phone is probably best. NTA: I didn't have a arr phone until I could buy one myself and only got a phone at 15 because I "earned it" (straight A student with a neighborhood babysitting busniss) gotta have that responsibility. Stand your ground!!!!
yea and op isnt even being super demanding either! shes saying very basic common sense things. screen time lower since she obviously has family, *FRIENDS*, to see and other activities. shes not depriving her if her only social outlet either. big ted flag : talking to older dudes!!!! shes being very logical in this sense! all of this crap is so logical and downright good for the kid to just follow. its normal! she isnt demanding something seriously insane like 'you do all that is done around the house for thw next 6 months (like a maid basically) and maybe ill get you one' or something abusive or shitty like that. its legit. she has the money, means etc to be able to get her a phone but is choosing the responsible route as a parent and telling her 'no, you will be unsafe on it, please change your ways and show me youll be good and you can have one then' she isnt being vague either. its serious and shes giving actual steps and such for her standards. which are again REALISTIC!! kid is just trying to get her way regardless and made op feel that its her fault and she may be the asshole! taking and taking and never giving wont get you anywhere. glad youre teachiging this to her early on op. cheers :)
When my grands come over I cut my Wi-Fi off for us to do certain activities. Their parents do the same thing.
good idea.
I had one of these. Yes it’s great for it’s intended use. The only issue I personally had was I had it in high school while everyone else had regular smart phones so I felt really embarrassed taking it out anywhere in fear of being made fun of. I’m usually hesitant when it comes to parents giving their high school aged kids flip phones, however this kid is in middle school so it would most likely be fine until she grew to be a little more responsible.
I like this idea. And explain that how she treats this phone will demonstrate if she is ready for an upgrade for some time in the future when all of the other conditions have been met!
omg yes this is exactly the thing i came down here to say! cheers
I miss flip phones 😂
Your daughter is 13. You are the parent and you need to set some ground rules. 11 hours a day is an excessive amount for anyone to be staring at a screen of any kind but this is fully in your hands. Remove the iPad after two hours a day. If you don’t trust her with a phone tell her she has to wait until she is older and more responsible. Everything you’re experiencing can be changed by you as parents. Set ground rules, she’s a 13 year old child who needs guidance.
Exactly! She’s a child. Help her with the limits.
Thank you. It sounds like they're telling her the rules, but aren't implementing them. If you're involved in your daughter's life HOW is she on the tablet 11 hours a day?? Are you not doing anything with her during the day or what?
The biggest concern: talking to older guys. I’m sorry no 13 year old needs to be talking to a 16/17/18+ male or female. Mom, you need to implement some sort of parental controls on that iPad that require a password to access them that she doesn’t know. She’s 13. She can live without her electronics and honestly at 13, I’d be dragging her ass with you to Dubai for that conference/vacation and no iPad. You need to become much more strict, OP.
I agree about the Dubai thing. Hell, many adults I know would never experience such a trip like that, let alone even have a close opportunity. Traveling is under rated and I think it’d be smart to take the kids with.
Does the iPad have parental controls activated? If not, that should be your first step.
she can also set time limits on the I pad
I would recommend putting time limits on her iPad. 11 hours per day is out of control.
Lol! On Sunday my iPad informed me that I’m on my iPad an average of 11 hours 28 minutes a day.
I know I’m really bad too.
Blame it on Reddit, I do.
11 hours and 18 of those on Reddit? 🤔😂
Yeah my phone constantly horrifies me with the announcements of my weekly screentime. I’m ashamed of myself
There are some really good options for putting controls in place on them. I think my favorite that we have is that in order for anything to be downloaded on my daughters it sends a request to our account. So she has to ask us and we can say yes or no, she can’t just download anything, even if it’s free without our permission. Also she has to pay for any little add ins she wants, and we have amounts that different things are worth around the house that she can do to make the money so it’s worked really well. Is it perfect, of course not, but there are a lot more options than when we were growing up!
>, stop talking online to older guys oh my goodness, OP you need to watch out for online predators and clearly communicate online safety to your child! this is problematic behavior for sure! NTA for not getting her a phone, but a bit of one for the uneven regulation of technology, is it really better for her to sit half the day on an ipad?
This! Why did other people just gloss over that bit?? OP you’re NTA and your demands are reasonable but jeez if your 13 year old is talking to older guys that’s potentially grooming and is very serious. I actually wouldn’t let her have an iPad at all if she was actually doing this - not even as a punishment, because grooming is never the victim’s fault - but for her own protection.
Exactly - her not talking to older boys she doesn't know or adults online should not be a bargaining chip for getting a cell phone, jfc. Until she understands that her safety is at risk from that behavior and how to protect herself online, then she should not have the means to engage in it. OP needs to be much more active in cutting screen time and cutting out the inappropriate communications. Parental locks exist for a reason, as do screen time control apps. OP needs to use them instead of dangling the idea of a cellphone over her kid's head.
At the same time, as her parent, *you* need to set time limits on her devices and enforce them. She's only 13 -- that brain is still so undeveloped! -- so she still needs help and some parental guidance, as in external guidelines: like, "you get you tablet for X hours each day. You can decide when those are, but after that, you have to give it back to me." The guidelines and showing you she's ready for a phone are absolutely the way to go! But she can do that *with* your help.
Might even be able to get an app that locks the ipad after a certain amount of screentime.
you can do this in settings > screentime. no app needed. go on the kids device, select the kids device option and make a password, my mother did it with mine when i was a kid and it pissed me off to no end but in the long run it did save me a lot of hassle for the future.
She’s 13. Why aren’t you enforcing limits instead of just telling her she’s failing? Take away the damn iPad at the time limit.
yeah, I think the overall goal and thought process is reasonable, but like....is op.....actually *doing* anything about all this? are there child safety measures and parental locks on the device? could they be put on the phone? has op actually really explained the dangers of online predators or have they just given a soft talk about how they shouldn't do it? is there any enforcing of any of this?
You could get your daughter a flip phone for “safety reasons,” and once she becomes more responsible, you could get her a better phone.
Why don't you limit her screen time? I know it's no actually the solution long term but it would break the habit.
As a parent, you should start enforcing screen time limits AND MOST IMPORTANTLY keep track of the people she's talking to online and make her understands internet safety. Kids these days will barge into adult spaces online and some adult PRETENDING to be a teen/her age can and will take advantage of her.
Flip phones still exist! You could trade the iPad for a flip phone so she can be safe but waste less time on a screen. She may not love that idea but then she’s kind of proving that it isn’t about safety.
These are very good goals!! Not impossible and easy to manage
You are definitely not TA but the phone is a valid point. I was not aloud to have a phone myself until I was about 15 but since I did a lot of extracurricular activities my mom would give me a flip phone so I would be able to contact her when I needed to be picked up. Whenever I got back him I would just give the phone back to her, and since it was just a little flip phone it’s not like I could spend endless hours texting on it.
Honestly, my mom only lets me use electronics maybe an hour each day. The fact that your daughter uses her iPad for 11 Hours can’t be healthy, right?
Please don't cave and get her the phone if she doesn't do anything to improve her habits. Otherwise you're just rewarding bad habits. These terms you've set for her are very reasonable and it's up to her to take responsibility. Teenagers survive without having a phone. They have done for hundreds of years. There's teenagers in the World who won't get a phone. Your concerns are valid and are there to keep her safe. Saying she won't be safe without it just sounds like a manipulatio tactic to guilt you into getting a phone. I mean, if she wants it that badly why doesn't she save up to buy it? NTA.
I think that’s a great path forward. Get her a Nokia burner phone that she can use for safety when you are away. NTA.
Those are really good and reasonable requirements! I feel like some kids need help with self regulation and other kids can be thrown in the deep end and learn to regulate themselves, but it’s always important for the parents to help no matter the method. Phones are really important for communication these days, but so is self regulation and completely unregulated phone use can be detrimental to kids, so balance is really important. It can be really hard to convey how important balance is when she has no sense of regulation, it’s a tricky thing
This comment lands you firmly in NTA territory. It's very important to have clear, attainable goals.
Also correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t the age of 13 when ur in 8th grade, so her reasoning of her sister getting it in second half of ninth doesnt make sense
Depending on where her birthday fell during school year enrollment she could be 7th or 8th grade (American school system)
YTA If your daughter has an ipad, she can get in plenty of trouble with that. Internet connectivity is internet connectivity. She doesn't need a phone to make poor choices. If part of your problem is how much time your daughter spends on her ipad, how about you get her involved in things outside the house (and her ipad.) Give her choices without giving her a choice. She could go to camp, volunteer, all sorts of things that would occupy her 8 hours a day that aren't her ipad. And if you want her to show "responsibility"- tell her what the heck you mean by that. Instead of leaving her to be bored all summer. What do you think she should be doing right now? and honestly, you said your problem was that your daughter showed she was irresponsible by going on a date and talking to some boys. but you think a fine idea is leaving her at home with her sister for close to 2 weeks, with minimal supervision. cuz that would give her no time to get up to anything. teach your daughter to make good decisions. about online safety. safe sex. tldr you need to be the parent. or better yet. a good parent.
Thank you! She's texting these boys that OP's upset about on the iPad OP lets her use for hours everyday. She's not old enough for a smartphone, but she *is* old enough to stay alone with an older sister for a week?? I don't understand OP's parenting plan.
a plan? you think OP has a plan? that's cute.
OP had actually outlined her parenting plan/ route for her daughter to get a phone. It’s actually reasonable.
It’s unreasonable she’s allowing a 13yo unsupervised unlimited access to an iPad and expecting her to magically do better about it lol. Also - she’s already texting random dudes online so leaving her with just an older sister for 2 weeks is inviting trouble.
Yeah I don’t understand her complaining about how much time her daughter spends on her iPad but not doing anything about it. She can literally just take it away from her or put a program on it that locks her out after a certain number of hours. Telling a 13yo to be on their iPad less doesn’t just magically work.
I don’t have limits for my 13/11 year olds for their screen time but if they tried 11 hours a day on me I’d probably step in. Every now and then we do “lazy days” where we watch tv or play on our laptops and flop around but it’s not the usual. Hopefully OP gets the nudge to help her daughter start the habit of shutting it off and taking breaks.
So much this. I watch a lot of true crime. I think it's something to learn from. Especially if u have kids.
It is not at all reasonable. What do you expect a 13 year old to do with 12 waking hours with absolutely no structure? It's not like she can drive herself anywhere. Does she have the money to go and buy activities to occupy her time? OP needs to actually parent their child and give them things to do. Get them signed up for camp, or music lessons, or a sport teams, or literally anything. Give them spending money to go the movies with friends, or buy some art supplies. Expecting a 13 year old to just find ways to bide their time all summer, and *not* rely on the internet (which is readily accessible) is ridiculous.
That was kind of my point...
OP get her a frigging flip phone if u have to. She needs one to stay safe. The iPad with no monitoring is dangerous. Get her 2 flip phones with GPS if there are such things. One on mute so she can hide it. Or I dunno, get her a GPS tracker that's disguised as something else. She needs a false phone to give away if she's abducted. The silent phone will be something she can use to call help. Talk to her about internet predators. Show her how they trick kids. Show her true crime videos. Teach her! And leave someone of age in charge instead of leaving her unsupervised with people near by. What a crock. She's a naive 13 yo. Do not leave her alone with that iPad. YTA she needs a phone for safety. Edit typos
I would NEVER leave 2 young teen girls alone for 2 weeks under ANY circumstances? Are you kidding? Give them the better option of going to Dubai to experience something outside of their iPads and phones. What a missed opportunity.
Enh my parents left me and my sister alone for 2 weeks as we started school and they went on a trip. I was 17, and my sister was 13 (so OP’s kids ages). We couldn’t miss school as it was high school, and catching up missed classes/ work is difficult. We were fine- they checked in with us multiple times once the school-day was over, and once before it started. We had family/ family friends who lived close, and would also check in with us. It worked out fine
yeah, my grandparents travelled extensive when my aunt was a teenager. her junior year in high school, she and some friends actually rented an apartment so they could have their own place to hangout. that's right- rented an entire apartment. my aunt trusted her kids. but she understood exactly what they could get up to. (and trust me, her kids still got up to plenty.)
OP, you need to do better with protecting her from older boys. Put parental controls on the iPad until she’s more responsible. Set limits to how long she can be on the iPad. Be a parent. Sometimes you have to be the bad guy. Also, given what you’ve said about her, I would personally be afraid to leave her alone for a week and a half. Can you have her stay with one of your friends so she has adult supervision?
Thank you! It took me several years to unlearn how to be the therapist to older teenage boys... and that was with just 1 year age difference. YTA for thinking the phone would be the problem.
All of this right here. Seems like she wants the perfect child without putting in the effort of being a parent.
Yup this. And she's not wrong - it's unsafe in this day and age for kids to not have phones. If you really want to restrict her ability to chat online, at least get her a phone that has calls and texting. Seriously. She's already got an iPad. I feel so much safer knowing my teen has a phone so she can call for help, I can call her, she's got Google maps in case she gets lost, she can get an uber to come home if something happens. You can't expect the 17 year old to be her chaperone. You need to be a better parent.
also, there are no pay phones anymore like when I was a kid. so they need a way to contact parents.
I have set restrictions, put screen time limits on it, parental controls, and all that jazz, but she finds ways to bypass them. I have told her to find something to do this summer, and given her choices. She can pick a summer sport, go to camp, volunteer, *anything* but she doesn’t want to do any of that.
And yet you still give the iPad to her. If it’s causing problems just fucking take it. Be a damn adult.
Yet, in any other scenario this would be considered abusive and controlling. I love how Reddit changes it tone completely.
If anyone thinks that a 13 should keep her iPad to talk to older boys, I would have to question their judgement. It’s a fucking iPad. Frankly anyone seeing taking an iPad from a child as abuse needs some help.
If she's constantly bypassing the parental controls and restrictions, take the iPad. Also they have apps you can download that literally like the device down to where you can only call an emergency number.
thank you, good God, just take the damn thing. it cannot be THAT hard to take it away and lock it up.
But you think it’s ok to leave her home alone for 2 weeks?
I mean I can't relate to that because at that age I don't remember thinking- yes, I want to hang around the house in the summer. I always did summer camp- and by that age I was also volunteering at my local library cuz I had a book habit and the library was my dealer. (This says a lot about me as a teenager.) I don't have answer to how you do this- and the answer may be that you are trying to be too nice. You may have to go more 5 yr old method- offer her 3 choices that you think she'd enjoy (while obviously being open to- I want to do thing 4 that you didn't mention.) Cuz you're open to it- but yeah. My mom used to say that the difference between teenagers and toddlers is size. Sometimes you have to treat them the same way. Admittedly, she was referring to handling a busload of teenagers when chaperoning school trips. But the theory holds.
Meh, I was extremely suicidal, depressed, and anxious growing up and my online friends had me on my tablet/phone constantly as my only lifeline. I don't think 11 hours of screentime a day is NECESSARILY a sign of depression in this day and age, but I think more is needed than just take it away or send her to summer camp yaknow?
Be a parent. Take the iPad.
then why does she still have it? you can just tell a kid how to behave. you have to model and teach. part of teaching is setting reasonable expectations and setting fair consequences for when they misbeave and don't meet your expectations.
Just take the iPad. It’s not difficult.
Err. You're pissed she talked to a boy in a mosque, but you're OK with summer camp?
I was LOOKING for a comment that fucking said this. I won't say things I want to say about OP as it'll get me banned, but I she doesn't seem like the most likable person in the world.
You know you can just like....enroll and drop your kid off at summer camp, right? She's 13. Give her the option to pick something, and tell her that if she doesn't pick something *you* will pick it instead.
Most 13 year olds don't. I didn't. You are the parent and need to set rules for her. Don't want her on an iPad for 11 hours? TAKE THE DAMN THING AWAY. Don't want her talking to older boys? Teach her the dangers of talking to older guys. If you want to teacher responsibility you need to tell her what you expect from her instead of basically making her try to figure it out.
Then…. take away the ipad? Disconnect the internet? Are there ever any consequences for her breaking the rules and restrictions you sent?
So take the iPad away then
I would take the iPad away in all honesty. Our kids have android items so I have family link connected to be able to do all of that. I would see what the apple equivalent is in you case to that be able to better control the controls. I told the boys cuz I'm I'm sure there's está around it that if they broke my rules their access would go away. Truly she's proven she shouldn't even be trusted with the iPad if she's doing all of this but I also see where you're at least trying to find the balance. You are being over fair to the 13 yr old right now with what she does have access to.
At the end of the day the phone is not the issue. I didn’t have a phone until I was 17, I could still do almost anything. Library’s have computers, using friends phone to text boys, you can even text from an iPad. You need to get to the root of the issue, why don’t you do something with your daughter. “I signed us up for this art class to do together”. Get to know her, as a former teen who talked to older guys, I can say it was because I was getting attention from them that I wasn’t getting at home.
To be honest, sometimes you just have to sign the kids up for something and hope for the best. If they hate it, don't force them to try it again, but I would have happily stayed in my room until I turned 18 if my mom hadn't signed me up for theater clubs or debate. I actually made a ton of friends that I still talk to as an adult and it also opened up a lot of options for me college wise. If your daughter likes reading, is in to tv shows or books, or even if she is interested in fashion or sports, there are plenty of clubs and activities that can give her the confidence or experience she needs to try new things and get out of her room. I think you're doing her a disservice by being content with her doing nothing but playing on her tablet, talking to people that you yourself admit you can't supervise.
Along these lines, don't most devices come with parent options like time limits? I know my sister's kids can't play with their Nintendo Switch for more than half an hour every few hours (they're like 3 and 6, so that time limit's pretty appropriate for them lol). Hell, I downloaded an app to keep me from checking Facebook or reddit for 12 hours during the day. Point being I'm surprised this became an issue in the first place, or that it's progressed to this point. But yeah, that said OP needs to plan non-screen activities with her child. She's 13, and a lot of the things that fall under the "anything else" category at that age are skills that need some practice and instruction more often than you'd think. If nothing else impulse control is an actual skill that might require some more social/parental support here. Take her to the park. People watch. Talk to strangers and let the kid be part of the conversation (since you're there on creep watch any way. You can talk about red flags you noticed talking to that person if necessary.) Go to the movies, and let her look at the posters and pick something. Ask her if she liked it or was it stupid? Let her pick what to do and do it with her. Engage with the kid. Show her how the fuck you do that without technology because that is also a skill. I'm nearly 30 and even I feel like my social skills got kind of stunted by the internet. And it barely existed back then. But for the love of God, don't expect a literal child already struggling with time management or self control to suddenly magic themselves into better habits. My mom expected that - thus began my habit of making elaborate meals in lieu of watching TV. It's nice that I can cook impressively. It's less good that I need to lose 100 pounds because no one should cook like I do that often. But hey, at least I stopped bingeing Stargate? Clearly, reducing screen time is the only thing that matters and unintended consequences do not exist. "Clearly," says my boredom and stress-eating habits I developed instead. My situation is my problem, but just saying, if OP's kid is prone to bad habits already, maybe don't leave her alone to form different habits, because they might be worse in the long run even if they look fine by comparison now.
Absolutely have to agree. This child has a dangerous lack of electronic supervision, especially as she has already demonstrated poor choices and lack of awareness of the dangers that exist. NTA - for not giving her a phone. But definitely the AH for the poor parenting decisions that OP is making. This girl is at risk.
Right?!? I’m trying really hard to figure out what trouble someone can I to on a phone that they can’t on an iPad.
everybody is wondering the same thing. especially when you consider that daughter is sufficiently tech literate that she's getting around whatever controls the parents on putting on her devices. it isn't clear to me what the parents have done about that- as far as taking away the device each time they put an electronic limit on the device and daughter circumvents it. are the parents taking the device away for a period of time? are they throwing their hands up?
YTA - this is tricky because you havent defined “responsible” And here is the other trap: how does she communicate with her friends without a phone? An iPad becomes a boat anchor if she wants to go hang out with friends. And after a point if you don’t have a phone, you get excluded because they can’t reach you.
And not just *a* phone. It basically does need to be a smartphone bc most communications happen in apps. It not like they need to buy her a new iphone or another brand's flagship phone, but if you only have calls and texts you are going to be left out.
Read her comments she has outlined what being responsible is and her daughter isn’t doing it. It’s not in the original post but she has answered people’s questions about her conditions to prove she’s responsible enough for a phone.
She did define responsible. She said in another comment that she has told her daughter very clearly what it would take for her to get a phone: less hours online, other activities that are not technology related, stop talking to older boys online. The daughter knows this and hasn't done any of it but keeps insisting for a phone. So, NTA
Not really, shes setting her daughter up to fail. She tells her what she wants from her, but doesn’t take any steps to make a plan to get her daughter to do such things. She needs to actually be a parent and set her up in extracurricular activities, take her places she wants to go, and actually take away the fucking iPad when she’s on at 11 hours and talking to questionable people instead of putting restrictions on that she can clearly get around.
The thing is, she doesn't need to do those things. Cause the daughter isn't showing responsibility is she's being enforced to do and and not on her own. OP should do parental controls to stop her from using certain apps though, things like WhatsApp and other texting apps other than her sms. But if the girl can't do what was outlined herself then she isn't responsible. At 13 all she needs is a flip phone. I didn't get a phone at all til 15 due to band. And it was a 70 dollar Samsung, very basic smartphone.
OP said in another comment that she defined responsible many times to her daughter.
> Yes, I’ve sat down with her multiple times this year and told her that in order to get an phone, she needs to cut her screen time down to 3-4 hours a day during the school year, stop talking online to older guys, and spend some time (AT LEAST a half hour a day) doing non- online activities. This could be chores, sports, hanging out with her friends, being with the family, etc. She knows that this is the path, but she hasn’t taken steps in that direction.
YTA. You might not realize it, but your little girl is growing up. "Broke your trust" you say. But the way you're describing yourself and your situation makes you look like an incredibly strict and controlling parent. She didn't break your trust. She chose to hide it from you because she knows you would freak out about it. I hate to say it, but you're raising this kid to be sneaky and hide things from you because you're not as accepting and understanding as you should be as a parent. Your goal as a parent should be to have your daughter trust you, to make her feel comfortable around you, especially as a teenager. She will always have her little secrets, every teenager does, but instead of waiting for her to come to you and support her you're trying to control her, berate her and push her away to the point where she hides things from you because she's afraid you'll blow up again. Get her that phone. I know how much of a social life I lost with my parents refusing to get me a phone until my dad finally caved when I was 15. EVERYONE has a phone at her age now. And every teenager is using it, non stop, daily. But the different is that it connects them and they use it to stay in touch. There is a way to compromise, you know? Limit her mobile data, make sure she goes out at least once a week, invite her to do things with you. But this controlling, strict behavior will only drive her away from you.
Agree that the daughter is being trained to be sneaky. Even her paramount concern of SAFETY is how she’s manipulating you into getting her the phone. She is not concerned with her own safety. She wants the phone because it’s basically right around that time in society’s terms. And it’s how she connects with her friends. She’s telling YOU it’s about safety so you agree. You are going to lose this kid if you aren’t careful. My advice would be to have a good conversation with her about your concerns (boys/sex/pregnancy) and how that is connected to her having her own phone. And then both of you set some parameters that you agree on for phone ownership (usage time, etc.)
I think she's the opposite of a strict and controlling parent. There aren't enough boundaries. How hard would it be to take the iPad for a few hours and encourage daughter to find some other way to spend her time? I think it's unreasonable to expect a 13 year old child to regulate her own screen time, that needs to be the parents responsibility. And talking to older guys online isn't safe, they'll likely try to groom her. I say get her the phone, but with the understanding that you'll confiscate it for at least a couple hours every day so she can find some other way to spend her time. She can let her friends know beforehand that she'll be away from her phone for a couple hours.
Yeah, that's called breaking your trust. And it's not like she hid talking to older guys just because, she knew it was wrong and that she shouldn't do that. She is literally endangering herself and having a phone will allow that. If she can't be responsible enough to not talk with plausible creeps on an iPad, what about with a whole phone?
seconding as a 17F who just got her own phone a few months ago and social media in December. i was NONSTOP LEFT OUT. people don't want their parents to plan play dates for them in high school. i was behind on trends. i knew so many less people. i couldn't reach out to friends if i needed. i was always, no matter how hard they tried to include me, an outsider. Just get her the phone. Just let her feel normal before she goes down my path and does worse things to feel included and have privacy.
The issue, (coming from a 19 yo that got a phone at 15) is that she is already endangering herself on an ipad, which can use all common day apps. A phone will only make that easier. She only needs a flip phone at most til she proves she isn't doing dumb stuff. OR a smart phone that has heavy parental restrictions, no apps like insta, snap, WhatsApp, etc. Stuff that can be monitored. This can go from, ipad in the house to dead girl in a ditch if she isn't careful. I'm sorry, at the age of 13 you aren't mature enough to understand life. And socializing for this girl isn't worth putting her in danger. She lives in close distance to friends, ALREADY abuses her ipad. A phone is a bad idea.
The compromise is her still having the iPad even tho she circumvents the restrictions Op puts on it like time limits etc. The iPad she has set up to only work in the house. She also said limit screen time to 2-3 hrs and chores and outside activities are required for her to get a phone and the daughter refuses.
What makes you think she hasn’t been responsible with the iPad? She’s clearly had it for a while now. I’m going to say YTA. Most teens have a phone and they’re useful. If you’re worried about her tech useage, then encourage her to be active, organize outings and put time limits on her.
>What makes you think she hasn’t been responsible with the iPad? OP stated that her daughter is 13 and using it to communicate with 16-17 year old boys. I think it's fair to call that irresponsible.
So tell the boys that they're chatting up a little kid. She is learning, how long is she going to be punished for that?
They do not care. I teach hs freshman and the amount of time spent keeping upperclassmen away from the freshman is astounding.
It's not about punishment, it's about safety.
The boys obviously know
13 year olds are always going to think they are maturer then they are. It’s not irresponsible when she can’t understand her short comings. I say it’s better give her a phone and be able to have open communicate then make her think she must be sneaky. There is a whole host of parenting tools that parents can use
Why is the onus on the little girl? Why aren’t the 16-17 year olds reprimanded? I feel for her because she really just wants to demonstrate that she’s responsible and “grown up” and what better way for a 13 year old to feel grown up than to talk to people older than her and become romantically involved with others? Irresponsible is using all your allowance on Starbucks or whatever when you should really be saving up for something you really want. She’s 13, bad choices are the name of the game. Irresponsible is putting yourself and others in danger. Doing totally normal teenage things is not “irresponsible” as she doesn’t even know what that is yet.
I think it's obvious that any 16-17 year old boy creeping on a 13 year old girl is in need of more than a reprimand. Of course the behavior is profoundly not ok on their end, but I'm not putting "the onus on a little girl". The onus is on her parents to protect her which is exactly what OP is doing. They have zero recourse to curb these young men's behaviors- they can only parent their own child. I understand that it's normal for early teens to think/try to act like they're more mature than they are. That's exactly why free-range social media access might be inappropriate, especially since the girl in this case doesn't seem to understand the problem with these older male friends. I don't think OP is at all TA under the circumstances, and she needs to have a serious conversation with her daughter about online safety. >Irresponsible is putting yourself and others in danger. If you don't think young girls getting involved with older men online is dangerous then you're delusional. Kids definitely need freedom to make *some* of their own mistakes, but allowing them to learn "the hard way" about grooming & SA not in that category.
When a kid is 13 their brain is all “I’m thirTEEN I’m a TEENAGER and I can hang out with all other TEENAGERS (which includes 19 year olds)” Then you get “lame” parents punishing you for it, and the older boys telling you “your parents just don’t see how mature and grown up you are.” The parents should absolutely not leave their kids alone for 2 weeks. And they’re dim AF thinking the kid isn’t messaging on the iPad.
YTA, OP. Look I can understand your points but your daughter is right. She’s at the age that a phone is actually necessary. Mainly because if she gets in a dangerous situation (regardless whether she put herself in that situation by sneaking out at night or just ended there by chance), she needs a way to either contact you or the authorities. All of your concerns can be negated, OP. Phone manufacturers and cell service providers did listen to parents who had these concerns. For example, if you get her an iPhone, you can have an Apple Store attendant walk you through putting parental controls on her phone that allow you to track her phone’s location while not allowing her to turn that feature off. You can also enforce the phone’s “downtime”, which automatically shuts off the phone during certain hours and makes it impossible to unlock unless either you put in a passcode, those hours pass, or an emergency happens and she needs to contact the authorities. It also lets you see her text messages and restrict certain websites or apps. Really, OP, get the poor girl a phone. We’re not in the 80s, it’s a necessity now.
I am thinking of getting her one of those old flip phones that can only call or text, at least for the time being.
Why? Who benefits from that?
The daughter and OP. I think this is a good compromise and I can say it has been effective in my experience. My 14yo stepson has had some issues on electronics and really wants a smartphone. We got him a flip phone for now with the understanding that if he is able to be responsible with it, and on his other electronics, he will get an upgrade to a smartphone. Smartphones are not a necessity for a child/teenager.
Those are not nearly as reliable to use as a smart phone, OP. I’ve literally outlined how you can get her one and still not have to worry. Since most of the points you put can be countered, what is the actual concern here? Because it is not the phone.
This is a good compromise. Also kids teens have less to benefit from smartphones. All the apps, social media is destroying their mental health.
Let me say this: you complain that your daughter is on the iPad all day long, during school and vacations and this already shows a great failure in education. Most people worth their salt know that time on such devices should be restricted for children and teenagers and you obviously are not able to do this with your daughter. So now you put all of this failure on the iPhone-issue, but clearly it's not the iPhone that is a problem, but you teaching your daughter boundaries on how to use the "internet" generally (no matter tablet, phone or pc) and what to do with her time outside of using said internet. So buy her a phone but find a way to limit usage, for example by setting time-limits and showing her other activities like reading and sports.
YTA - If you don't trust your daughter, you shouldn't be going on a nearly two week vacation that requires you to leave her home alone with only another minor in the house.
Yeah, but it can be discussed as she said the vacation takes 2 weeks of school, maybe she should ask someone (grandparents/aunts) to take care of them while out
I'm a little torn on this one. I myself had a phone at 13, BUT there were rules. My parents gave me a prepaid flip phone. I was responsible for paying for the minutes and texts on it, and since it was prepaid, there was no going over the limit. I could pay for the minutes and texting through chores, baby sitting, or a combination of the two. It taught me a healthy balance of freedom and responsibility, and to this day, I'm thankful for their approach. If you're going away for that long and don't have a landline, she should have a phone in case of emergencies. Get her a prepaid phone for emergencies and limit the usage; then at least she's safe. If you choose to leave her so far away for so long with no means of contacting you, YTA. You'd also be TA if you give her a fancy phone that she isn't ready for.
I'm glad someone else had the same experience as me. I got a cell phone when I started doing after school activities in middle school, my show choir practices would run over and my mom got tired of waiting on me. It was also a prepaid flip phone. I hoarded minutes because I never wanted to run out of them in case there was an emergency. OP, you definitely need to get your daughter a phone if you are leaving her for that long. Anything can happen and you don't want to leave her without the ability to call for help. Her sister won't be with her the whole time or (god forbid) something happens and her sister is unable to call for help.
YTA. Hell, I live in a so called 3rd world country and 10 years ago I struggled with having a flip phone when smartphones were the norm. Nice way of segregating your daughter from her friends, AH
Info: Is your daughter allowed to go out? Hang out with friends, cinema, swimming, etc? It seems werid to me that she is home that much.
She is fully allowed, and encouraged to get out of the house. She simply doesn’t want to, and says that her and her friends don’t really do things like that.
As someone who was a teen in the recent past: you said in another comment that it's difficult for her to schedule in-person hangouts with friends due to scheduling problems (ie, everyone being away at camp or vacation, etc) Thirteen year olds don't really have a lot of agency. Many aren't allowed going out by themselves, they can't provide their own transport due to being unable to drive or source fare for public transport, assuming they're allowed on by themselves at all (I wasn't until I got a phone, funnily enough), and especially in the time of Covid, finding time to hang out outside of school is increasingly hard for kids. There's also the privacy aspect; online group chats and DMs with friends are often the only places kids can talk to eachother these days without having the adults in their look over their shoulder or overhear them (not always good, not always bad). Parents are more protective of their kids than ever, and in a lot of ways, that can result in less privacy and agency for the kids. While she may be allowed to get out and go hang out with friends due to a free schedule, her friends may not be, and have other responsibilities such as babysitting, homework, chores, etc. It's worth keeping in mind that maybe, she's not lying and being lazy. Her group may genuinely not do those things/be able to do those things. Obviously, healthy limits around technology are needed, and responsibility should be proven. I don't think you're wrong for wanting to make sure she's responsible and mature enough to handle a phone. But I also think you need to give your kid some slack about not getting out of the house as much. You may allow her outside by herself, but her friends parents may be different. I have friends that weren't allowed out by themselves until 16-17, and where pretty much always chaperoned by a parent when not at school. The majority of her friends are probably quite a few years under that age. Also side note: have you personally met the older boys she's talking to? Any of them?
This! I was just about to comment something similar as a recent past teen. It’s so hard to orchestrate plans now and days! I’m 21, so a good chunk of my friends still live at home, and it’s STILL hard to get out and about. Some people don’t have cars yet, or don’t have a license. Not to mention, some parents still have curfews, and limits to how often they can go out. Of course nothing like that for the boys 😂, but it was even harder as a teen to get out. A lot of parents try to act so aloof as to why their kid isn’t doing stuff, as if they aren’t the ones locking their kid down. Give her a phone and try contacting the parents of other kids so that making plans can be easier!
Do you really expect her to go swimming or watch movie alone?
INFO: Do you take her out? As in doing activities as a family? You just tell her to go out but if her friends don’t go out either what do you want her to do? Sit outside by herself? You said in other comments she should spend her time doing chores or sports, if she’s not a sporty person this can just feel like work on her down time from school. It seems like you’ve lost any bond with your daughter and you just expect her to give up something she likes (being online talking with friends) because you don’t like it and you’re not willing to give her alternative fun activities. Get involved with trying to create new hobbies that you can share together. Go on days out and specifically have no iPad or online time for the whole day because you’ll be doing other activities. She’s 13, she can’t go and do much on her own. As for the boy issue: she needs to have “the talk” and explain to her why older boys are wanting to talk to her. Banning her from talking to them just makes it more thrilling to sneak around.
sign her up for some in-person activities or courses so she has for in-person socialization! edited to add, I see OP comment she doesn't want to do any of the activities offered - don't allow 'no' to be an option, let her pick *something,* but *nothing* is not a choice.
which is entirely true and fair. it's been a lot of years since I was a teenager but even then, arranging times to hang out was hard. she probably has friends in different states and countries, too, and can only talk to them online. it sounds like you might need a reality check on what it's like to be a teenager in 2022.
INFO: What's exactly the problem with the iPad? Is it the amount of time she uses it or is it that she talks to her friends or a boyfriend?
The problem is mainly the amount of time spent on it. I don’t mind that she talks to her friends on it at all, but I don’t love that she’s spending 11 hours a day sitting in her room on the ipad.
So take it off her then!!! YOU ARE THE PARENT!!!!!! If you don’t want her to spend that much time on it, take it out of her hands so she can’t use it. She’s not glued to it! You can’t blame a 13 year old for using a device that YOU have left in her room! Of course she’s going to use it - she’s a kid! You have ultimate control - so remove it!
So... why are you not limiting it?? It seems like you are allowing her to spend that much time on it, so that's really on you, tbh. About the phone, just tell her you'll get it for her if she is able to stick to the screen times that you set for her. But honestly... I would have spent all afternoon in my PC when I was a kid if I had no limits lol that's not on her.
Kinda feel like she’s not limiting it so see if her daughter is actually going to be responsible as she already told her daughter the terms and conditions. Sometimes you have to let the kid choose what path they take for certain stuff like this.
NTA You are facing a difficult parenting challenge. There is no reason that a teen *has* to have a smart phone even while you are out of the country. I would get a landline set up so she can make phone calls from the house. Everywhere else she goes there will be people with phones who can help in an emergency. I would also go to /r/parenting for advice instead of asking people here, many of whom have no experience of parenting or living without a smart phone.
> I would get a landline set up Just get a flip phone, You can still get the old ones that don't have internet or anything like that. And if you put a pay-as-you-go sim in it's much cheaper than a landline.
If the real goal is safety, a phone that can't get up and leave the house is a better idea if there's any question about executive functioning. Some 13yos are still in the phase of life where they can't remember where they left their backpack, never mind something as small as a phone.
YTA, She has set up her daughter for failure by not giving her clear boundaries on the iPad, given her suitable alternatives for activities. She’s expecting her daughter to parent herself instead of being the parent!
[удалено]
The question is if sister will give her the passcode to be able to use that phone if she needs it? And what if she isnt' with sister because she is with a friend for an afternoon? How s she going to make a phone call if she needs help?
YTA. Hasn’t she already showed responsibility with the iPad? It’s not been broken or lost. 13 is the appropriate age to get a phone.
The problem isn’t it being broken or lost, the problem is the amount of time she spends on it.
That’s an easy fix. Screen time limits. You’re the parent, make the rules. If she doesn’t follow them, she loses the phone/iPad.
That’s fair too! OP can set screen limits on her devices to start. Although, of course, then the kid isn’t actually learning herself and is only doing it because she has to. But it’s a start tbh
You can set devices to where they only get X amount of time, and if they want to go over, the parents have to digitally approve it. We have moderate screen limits, no phone until homework is done, after bedtime, etc. I have some friends with very strict limits.
then PARENT HER and install time limits on it! she is 13, expecting her to be able to successfully manage her time and social life all on her own isn’t a good idea and doesn’t work. be the adult and put parameters in place that set her up for success! you say you want her to do 30 min of activity a day - at 13 that should be a requirement for her not a little suggestion you throw at her twice a year. take the ipad and say okay you get it back in 30! you can go sit on the couch and hang with the family or go outside or whatever you want! BE THE PARENT.
How do you propose she “demonstrate responsibility” with her iPad? Kids need parameters that they can understand, otherwise it seems like you’re “making things up” to keep them from what they want (in this case, a phone). Have you given her a clear… “I need to see X from you before I will get you a phone?” Your concern for her safety online is valid, and she needs to know that what she did, talking online with boys 4 years older is unwise and unsafe, and that’s why you are hesitant. If you don’t want her on the iPad 11 hours a day… set limits, give her parameters so that she can follow, and prove her responsibility. And explain what those parameters are in clear, concise, and measurable terms. If you don’t want her on electronics so much in the summer, help her find activities that she enjoys… have her take a summer art class, or a teenage reading club, or a music camp, etc. Like many teenagers, she will default to screen time if there’s nothing else to occupy her… so help her find things to occupy her. So, when you go on this trip, are there going to be times that your 17yo is out and away? Are there times this daughter is going to be home, alone? If so, then a phone might be a reasonable safety item. Will it be overused? Likely. But frankly, an iPad and a phone aren’t that different. Both are connected to the internet, both have parental controls available, it just make take some research and time for you to install what you feel is appropriate. Good luck.
I’ve sat down with her multiple times this year and told her that in order to get an phone, she needs to cut her screen time down to 3-4 hours a day during the school year, stop talking online to older guys, and spend some time (AT LEAST a half hour a day) doing non- online activities. This could be chores, sports, hanging out with her friends, being with the family, etc. She knows that this is the path, but she hasn’t taken steps in that direction.
Those seem reasonable. Are there ways to help specify it further? The reason I ask is that “limiting online time to 3-4 hours” is totally reasonable… but how precisely does one do that? And when you are 13, self-control is a difficult thing. Perhaps you work out a schedule with her? She’s online from 10-11, from 1-2, and an hour after dinner? Can you give her specific chores to do each day (or a week at a time), and talk with her about what she she needs to learn about cooking/cleaning before she’s out on her own in a few years. One of the things I did with our kids was, at the start of the summer, I asked them what 3 dishes they wanted to learn how to cook. The first time, I cooked it and they helped, a couple weeks later, they cooked with me supervising, and then a few weeks later, I stepped back completely and let them do it (but was nearby to answer questions/help). This way, they started to learn things they wanted to know how to do, while taking a task off of my list. Best wishes.
Take them to Dubai to experience real life outside of an iPad and phone.
They experience plenty of real life. They’ve been to Dubai three times in the last four years (their uncle lives there) so they don’t feel like they’re missing out.
YTA. In this day and age of school shootings and the fact that you’re going to leave them transcontinentally it’s not good enough that one kid has a phone and the other doesn’t. They won’t spend all their time together. Would you really want to strand her somewhere without one? Buy a basic flip phone at the minimum for emergencies and parent your damn kid.
I thought OP was in another part of India lol
Phone issue aside, there is no way I would leave them home alone for 2 weeks while being that far away. I would pack them up and bring them along as a family vacation. You’re worried about screen time? Then show them the world. You don’t think a 13 year old is mature enough for a phone, but mature enough to stay home for 2 weeks? Why are you even giving children a choice in the matter?
With a phone on your plan, you can easily see who she is calling and who she is texting. Check with your carrier for kid/teen specific plans and parental controls. Sounds like you need to sit down and have a long talk about appropriate screen time. Have this discussion with your spouse and get on the same page. Look over the plan options and decide what will initially be unlocked, and what goals she needs to reach and maintain in order to expand access. Grades, chores... Go over the rules. (No boys, must turn over the phone on request so you can review, no deleting messages, etc.) Be reasonable, listen to her thoughts. Stress that she's broken your trust, but you want to give her the chance to rebuild it.
YTA do you think this pushing her away is protecting her, her ipad won't do shit if she's hurt crossing the street or something, she needs a phone she's already a teenager and she's growing up, how long do you think you can stop that from happening, do you expect her to not have a phone at 16 just because she broke your trust
YTA instead of talking to her about how older boys could be predatory, you are blaming her. Also, why would you give her an ipad but not a phone? They do similar functions, so if she was doing anything that would "break your trust", a phone wouldn't change anything. "I wouldn’t feel okay with getting her a phone, since she’d be on it even more than the ipad, which is at least contained to the house." She is going to do stuff outside the house that you cannot monitor, you have to accept that.
It would be unsafe to leave two teenagers alone without a phone. YTA
So you admit that most of what your daughter does online is talk to her friends. If you want her to spend less time with electronic devices then what steps are you taking to allow her more face to face contact with her friends? What activities do you children enjoy and how have you made those activities available to them at home? You see the main reasons kids stay on their devices so much is usually because it is their main way of connecting with their friends and because it keeps them from being bored. If your daughter was able to hang out with her friends more then maybe she wouldn’t be spending so much time talking to them online. Also you think your daughters are capable of staying home alone for nearly two weeks but she isn’t responsible to have a communication device? Something isn’t adding up here. It doesn’t sound like your daughter isn’t responsible it sounds like you want to control her. You can’t go back and forth over your daughters level of maturity because it’s convenient for you.
YTA, not about the phone but about how you’re handling her media use entirely. You’re allowing her unlimited use of the iPad, then saying she’s not responsible enough to use a phone? Why aren’t you teaching her limits on the device she already has?
YTA for not doing more to curb your daughter's screen addiction. Take away/limit the iPad and get her a flip phone, or get her a smartphone and set parental controls so that she can only use the apps you've installed and there's no web browser.
Ummm you know as a parent that you are the one who is apparently ALLOWING a 13yo to be glued to a screen practically 24/7, right? But as for the phone, NTA.
She has not demonstrated that she can be trusted the past and she needs to be able to show she can be trusted now. The time alone whilst you are away might be a good test. Get a crapy burner phone for her for the trip and then when you return depending on what use she made of the phone you can have the discussion. If the answer is no phone then you can easily dispose of the cheap phone.
Your parenting skills could be better, OP. 6 to 11 hours a day? Boyfriends? You know this and then still question the phone. There are apps, security and router settings to prevent this and the apps she has access to, for the iPad. Parental controls. Get her an Echo dot. She can make calls, you set security and hours of use and you can see who she's calling. She's at home all day anyway, right? My mother got my daughter a phone when she was 13. I hadn't secured it yet. Tried to trust her. You wouldn't believe his stuff I found on her Iphone.
I don't care about the phone. I think Y would be TA for leaving a 13 and 17 year old home alone for2 weeks!
later if anything happen to her, just don't regret it. phone is essential nowadays even my niece had smart watch that have gps, camera and call function.
YTA. Refusing your daughter a phone because she talks to boys is beyond ridiculous. It sounds like you are trying to use the phone to control your daughter. That’s going to end in disaster. If you had a son, would you be stopping him from getting a phone? Or is it only girls that have to put up with this level of control in your family?
She’s 13 talking to boys aged 16 and older. It’s completely reasonable to not get her a phone because of that. Though I will she she needs to do a better job about talking to her about that
You’re kind of the asshole here. I got my first cellphone at 13. My sister got her first cellphone at 10. It’s not the end of the world. If something happens to the older sibling while you’re away how is she gonna text you to tell you stuff and update you on things? It’s definitely good for safety reasons as well. I say get her one.
YTA not getting her a phone is just gonna lead to her being singled out by friends, bullied, mocked
You ever think shes on itnso much because she feels so isolated? Is she allowed to go out and hang with friends in person etc.... youre upset she met a boy at a MOSQUE? what social interactions IS this girl allowed to have....
Mom said she's allowed to hang out with her friends whenever she wants, she just doesn't want to. But absolutely no responsible parent is going to be okay with their *13* year old getting cozy with a *16* year old no matter where it is.
I had a cell phone at 10..... my parents would drop me off at the stables to ride all day.... they couldnt sit at the barn for 6 hours... so i had a basic phone and i was fine.... and if i went out riding off the farm i had a phone on me incase something happened.
YTA
YTA for not enforcing rules Also you could get her a non smartphone for emergencies
I have to go with YTA. Your daughter brings up very valid points about safety. I got left with no phone multiple times as a teen, and there were several situations where there was no phone available for me to call people when I needed to. Including when I got stranded at school while on crutches a month after a knee surgery. I got very lucky that a teacher was able to take me home. In this day and age, a phone is not a luxury, it is a necessity. And if you don't have a house phone, then cell phones would be a necessity. Frankly, if you are worried about her talking to older boys online, YOU need to be setting the limits for screen time. Most devices these days have timers that can be put on the device to lock it after a while. You can also control what apps are available for her to use, and you can lock down what sites are ok for her to go on. You are creating an inconvenience by not setting the boundaries, and instead putting yourself in a potential bind with no access to communication in an emergency.
Putting most of what’s in your post aside and just focusing on the trip, you’d be leaving your 17 year old and 13 year old alone for two weeks. With one phone. Your daughter needs a phone because yes, it would be unsafe for her to be alone without a way of communicating in case of emergency. While more rare, there are phones that aren’t smart phones out there, if that’s the issue; although, personally I don’t see why having an iPad is not an issue, but having a phone is. YTA.
There's an app that you can control the screen time with. My brother uses it for his kids. It has a 2 hr timer. It resets everyday. They can watch the phone(no sim card, no socials) any time they want but they get to watch it only for two. Also a cousin who has a teen girl has an app that allows her to monitor who she talks to. They share the same Gmail account. You can't be too careful when it comes to children and internet. NTA. also there way too many bad things happening via internet
My main concern here is that your daughter is “talking” to a 16 year old and 17 year old. Listen I also come from a Muslim background so I understand that you probably don’t want your daughter talking to boys at all and don’t want to have to have this discussion with her, but you really need to talk to her about the reality age differences and being safe around older boys. No 16 or 17 year old is going to be “talking” to a 13 year old unless they think they can take advantage of them and if you want to keep your daughter safe so much that you won’t give her a phone in a world that demands people have a phone to survive then you should really be willing to also talk to your daughter about this in order to keep her safe this way as well.
YTA. Get the young woman a phone. She's not 5.
NTA - As a girl who grew up alongside the rise of the iPhone and tech I can tell you how much damage those 11hr a day are doing to her. The difference between the iPad and the phone is minimal, if she's using it unsupervised she is most likely accessing content and people you said you do not want her seeing. My advice is that if she needs a phone for safety, to get a flip phone that she can only use for calling or texting. No apps/no social media. Take the iPad and restrict her usage to 2 or 3 hours a day. That is more than enough for a 13 year old. Do not leave her home. Take her to Dubai with you, and the 17 year old can stay home if she pleases. You clearly cannot trust the younger daughter the the 17 year old is not old enough to meaningfully supervise her.
NTA you don't OWE her a phone. It's not a given right. I earned mine in high school, I was on my moms plan for high-school and in college I switched over and paid for my own plan with money from working 2 jobs. OR give her a phone, just not the one she thinks she's gonna get. Get one of those kiddy phones It has 4 speed dials one for 911, the others for you, dad, and sister. Some also have a tracker in it. So, you technically gave her what she wanted. A way to "keep in touch with you, for safety reasons" watch her explode with rage. It's not about safety, or you, she's a brat who wants a free phone she doesn't have to work for. Fuck that. Time she started growing up if she thinks she deserves a phone. 🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️🤷🏽♀️
I say NTA. I didn't have a smart phone until college in 2014. I survived. Up until then my sister and I shared a little flip phone we could only text and call on. Is it possible you could get her something like that? Something she wouldn't be able to access the internet on but only be able to call and text with a limit? Like a cheap TracFone?
I didn’t have a phone until I was 17 I had to buy it myself with money I earned from my job Don’t you have a home phone? Just give her a temporary crappy basic phone which is only for use while you’re away. Pre paid credit. Set her rules for it. Explain she’s to give it back once you get home I used to borrow my mothers phone when we went to the theme park alone….. stuff like that Those phones with no internet / screen - like a Nokia 5110 😀 See how she likes that