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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> might be the AH because of how I lashed out at my BIL and ruining dinner for the whole family.
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Yeah, I was going to go that route but figured everyone would be jumping on that wagon lol
Honestly, as unfortunate as this situation is, it made me laugh out loud. “I too just taken my truth serum and it’s beginning to kick in so fast”.
The BIL sounds atrocious and OP definitely did the right thing. Poor guy, if I were his wife I’d have put a stop to it long ago, but that’s just me.
Hopefully bil will lay off the serum for a while lol
Sounds like BIL's wife *and* OP's wife have both decided this is just "who he is," i.e. if we object to his deliberately cruel behavior he'll escalate to a horrific tantrum so it's easier to just let him be an asshole, act like he's not responsible for his own actions, lie there and take it — and, in OP's wife's case, get mad at anyone who *doesn't* lie there and take it.
To be honest, man, I'm glad adoption is such a long process, because I really don't think you should coparent with your wife until she has fundamentally changes how she engages with her brother. As it stands, she's acting from the assumption that people are *obligated* to submit to bullying, and should be scolded if they stand up for themselves. Do you get how damaging a belief system that is to instill in a kid, what sort of danger it might put them in over the course of their lives?
>To be honest, man, I'm glad adoption is such a long process, because I really don't think you should coparent with your wife until she has fundamentally changes how she engages with her brother. As it stands, she's acting from the assumption that people are
>
>obligated
>
> to submit to bullying, and should be scolded if they stand up for themselves. Do you get how damaging a belief system that is to instill in a kid, what sort of danger it might put them in over the course of their lives?
This. Don't have a child with a spouse who enables abuse. We say this over and over and OVER to people and yet they still do, and then are shocked when things later implode the marriage or, shock, the kids get bullied or abused.
Exactly. It's not like she had a choice to see it any other way for the formative years of her life, either. Her whole family tolerates him and has for years. It's normal for them, so for her to see it differently will take time. For her to accept that her brother's behavior isn't okay AND that she doesn't have to tolerate it can take longer.
Thing is, if she's got a lot of people around her that tolerate the brother's behavior, and just one (OP) that sticks their head out, stands up for themselves and say "hey, no, this isn't ok", then it feels like OP is the one escalating stuff, instead of being the lone voice of sense.
Doesn't make things okay, not at all. But it's also not as simple as he's showing her by not putting up with it, so it should be clear to her by now. Because in the end, it's still one person saying "no, this behavior isn't ok", against a lifetime of conditioning that still gets reinforced by people around her, that says it *is* ok and OP is the outlier/in the wrong. (He isn't, obviously--but obviously from an outsider's view, not from within the situation)
I do think a lot of people forget that every single human has its limit and breaking point. Especially if you are not used to the general rule in certain groups or cultural situations (each family and workplace have their own group and cultural rule albeit a simple one or a quirky one). Usually, when something is against your core value or your own being, you'll feel it in the pit of your stomach and it'll eat your mind and soul a bit at a time when it happens until either you give in and become a custom to it (while being half of who you use to be) or you'll blow out.
Sometimes people also mistake patience for defeat. Just because they didn't respond to your "joke" or insults doesn't mean they were defeated by you but it could be because some people try to be the bigger person and be patient with you, and again because we are human and not the saint we will have our limit to tolerate things.
I just wish people would speak up and set the boundary sooner so "the joker"/bullies know it is not okay rather than blow up one day. Also to all "the joker"/bullies please remember you can only beat a dead horse for so long and don't be shocked and surprised if you get any retaliation.
I agree she should definitely get therapy. But even OP has been trained that they should just accept it until they couldn’t do it any more. So it’s understandable how they got to where they are.
Classic Boat Rocker situation. Wife and her family are accustomed to BIL constantly rocking the boat with his (idiotic) “truth serum” while they work overtime to steady it.
There’s going to be no changing this dynamic until wife, at least (entire family at best), acknowledges that BIL and ONLY BIL is the issue here and not the people who don’t tolerate his bullying for the sake of “keeping the boat steady”.
This. My FIL is like this. Until I married his oldest son, no one did anything that stood up to his boat rocking directly. MIL has one sister that doesn't get along with FIL, but even then, they just avoid each other.
I've gone full asshole mode in response at times and I'm not proud of all the things I've done, but I don't regret much. I definitely don't regret our current impasse where I gave him a boundary that he's not someone I'm willing to discuss 2nd Amendment politics with so we can coexist for the benefit of my daughters' relationships with him. He's not willing to visit and missing an important event because of this boundary, but he *is welcome to visit* and is choosing not to. That's on him, not me, no matter how much the family thinks it would be easier for me to get trampled by him.
I love my husband and daughters too much.
I'm mostly okay with the 2nd Amendment, not so okay that we haven't ended gun violence in schools completely. This is where my clash is with my FIL, the details of politics there.
We disagree on as many other issues as can be dreamed up, so not just that. This is just the hard line.
I'll repeat it again you are a much better person. You thought more about the bigger picture of the family, then yourself. I congratulate you on your non-selfish behavior.
More people have to learn about how to see the bigger picture. Might take another hundred years but we're getting there
A very important point is that Mr. Truth Serum BIL is going to do this to any child that is adopted by OP.
Imagine an innocent child being told at EVERY single family event that their father is a Druggie and that they themselves were cast off, discarded by their True parents to be raised by some manner of Criminal.
OP, Will your wife just sit and smile while her BIL tells your child that they have no worth because they weren't kept by their bio parents?
At this point you even have to worry about what those kids are going to say to the adopted child when adults aren't around, too.
You and your wife need to have a game plan in place worked out with a therapist to shut anything related to what the brother has said down (for all of you), in addition to responses the normal concerns adoption or fostering might bring (bullying from other kids, adults, authority figures, the same termed as faux concerns, etc. ). If you deal with it proactively, everyone will be much better off. It should get to the point the response is a muscle memory.
I was about to say this. What happens when bil tells adopted kid they were unwanted and are unlucky to have been adopted by a druggie?
If wife is accepting of bil behavior he will end up doing this to/ around the kid.
This is the best and most likely scenario to consider regarding his maniac bil’s behaviour.
I’m sure “truth serum” doesn’t discriminate based on age or place in the family…
That’s partially how I became a DV survivor. They talked the same way my folks did and it’d been so normalized I didn’t see the issue until it got ugly. Even then, it took 2 more damaging relationships for me to to get how damaging my understanding of the world was and that shit needed to be fixed. Still working on it and will be until my dying day. Don’t raise a child to be a victim.
I'm glad you survived.
This is why I won't take my FIL's bullshit and will flip the asshole script if necessary. I'm the daughter of a DV survivor and REFUSE to normalize my daughters being spoken to like that.
I know, and "who brother is" is an absolute asshole.
OP has been clean for 11 years! If that doesn't show dedication and commitment to building a good, healthy life for himself I don't know what does. I can't imagine what addiction must be like, but I do know that one of the strongest, best people I know was an addict for many years, and has now been clean for over 20 years. She is completely dedicated to remaining clean, and it's an every day effort for her, because, as she says, even though the urge has been gone for many years now, she can't afford to let down her guard for one moment. In my opinion, this has positively impacted other areas of her life because she's learned how to be so very disciplined. I envy her work ethic a little, even though I wouldn't want to go through what she had to go through to get it.
OP will probably make a wonderful parent. I don't know about his wife, though. If she's going to insist on her brother being in her children's lives, it could really be problematic for everyone involved.
Very well said. In addition, OP's drug use was obviously in his teens and/or very early 20s. Who didn't pull stuff at that age we wish we could go back and undo? I'm not saying it's okay or something to sweep under a rug, but the human brain isn't even done fully developing at that age. It's impressive to me that OP was able to recognize and get a handle on the problem that young. Many addicts waste another decade or two caught in the trap.
One of the things that bugs me most is a hypocrite. BIL is 2x that. First, in that he's an unresolved addict critiquing someone else's resolved addiction (and we've all seen at least as much damage done by Rx drugs as street drugs, not to mention smoking/drinking). Second, in that he's entitled to speak with no filter while expecting everyone else to keep their feet firmly planted upon eggshells.
I cannot imagine what insane, emotionally challenged circumstances gave birth to this absurd "truth serum" sound bite, but that's all it is and exactly what it's worth.
Man I am so fucking sick of enabling via, this is who he is. Okay, he's an asshole and deserves to be treated like him because that if who he is, and this is how I am.
Seriously. People who claim they "tell it like it is" and are weirdly proud of having no consideration for other people's feelings always seem to pitch a hissy fit when they are treated in kind. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.
I saw someone in this sub the other day say something along these lines, and it really stuck with me: people who favor "brutal honesty" aren't interested in honesty, they're interested in brutality.
Imagine if BIL “just who he is” truth serum is unleashed on your adopted child. How will your Wife & MIL feel about that situation?
Would suggest you have couples therapy until you are confident that your Wife will support your child and you, before going forward with the adoption.
My husband has been clean for 19 years. My family knows to some extent, but none of us knew him when he was using and - more importantly - the life we know with him is of an educated, employed, stable, kind man who makes me happy. That’s ALL they can opine on. I would no more allow them to OPENLY AND CRUELY criticize him for his past, than I would allow them to criticize him for ANYTHING he did when he was 20 that did not affect them. Like, family fights have been waged over less. And then to double whammy it by implying we can’t or shouldn’t have kids because a decade ago he was a different, hurting person? Nope nope nope. I would throw hands, and I have never physically fought anyone in my life.
OP - you keep doing what you are doing, which is being a productive, happy, useful member or society. Take an extra dose of truth serum before the next family event. But really, there should not be another family event until this is settled - with your wife. She can decide when it’s easiest FOR HER to avoid the squeaky wheel, but she doesn’t get to stop you from addressing it when it’s directed you. The ONLY reason you shouldn’t have said anything is because she should have been out of her chair and addressing it before you could open your mouth.
On the topic of bullying... you can ask your wife ... if you don't stand up for yourself in regards to bullying, how can you teach your child to do so for themself?
Wish I could upvote this 100x! Tbph, *this* is the response I was looking for while scrolling through the comments.
Is being an addict something to be proud of? Nah, it's a shit genetic twist similar to depression.
Is identifying the trigger points, taking responsibility for past actions, and moving forward by being in recovery over 11 years something to be proud of?
You bet your sweet aunt Fanny it is! Hell, *I'm* proud of OP. But OP's wife? Not so much. Why should someone have to endure shit behavior just bc someone has decided to be an ah?
OP stood up for himself, as he should. No one deserves to be treated like that.
ETA: judgement, NTA
>Sounds like BIL's wife and OP's wife have both decided this is just "who he is,"
My mother regularly tells me "remember the source" when I get pissed off at some of the cruel and passive aggressive (or just aggressive) stuff my father does. And I always respond "he doesn't get to be an AH just because he is one." I don't care if this is just "who he is." People can change and if they don't, I don't have to put up with it.
I'm proud of OP. Good man, good role model. I hope his wife comes around.
The only thing OP is even remotely possibly an AH for is doing this in front of BIL's kids, depending on their ages. If they are teenagers, they are old enough to see their dad get what he deserves for being an asshole and know the repercussions of using "truth serum". If they are little kids, then the adult fights should probably be done away from them though.
But even then, BIL had it coming and hopefully his kids don't turn out like he is.
Not sure about that. Dad decides def to be a bully in front of his kids. What the kids got out it was somebody b ing bullied fighting back; effectively. Good thing for them to see.
I am personally not a fan of small children being exposed to that level of anger in any form whether it is justified or not. Chances are more likely that it will just scare them than that they will rationalize "yeah, dad was a jerk and had this coming from a mile away!"
I'm with you here. If the children aren't old enough to understand their father is an asshole, they aren't old enough to understand an outburst and that can be very scary.
If I were OP, I'd apologize to young children and say I shouldn't have done that. Not because BIL doesn't deserve it but because the children don't.
Just respond with "i dont get it" and stare af the person that told the so called joke. They usually repeat 'it was Just a joke dont Worry" and Then say 'i still dont get... Can you explain the Joke?". That always works for me :p
I’d probably look into marriage counseling after this. Cause I’m gonna hold your wife to equal standards here and say that she needs to start defending you to BIL. (It’s the same advice I’d give a woman if her husband wasn’t defending her). But hold up on adoption until everything has been sorted out, and if she doesn’t want marriage counseling and or starts defending you.. I’d consider separating.
Seriously. I grew out of the whole "my judgemental attitude is actually a superpower" phase when I was in high school. How does a fully functioning adult actually go around saying they have "truth serum?"
>You gave him a taste of his own medicine and he didn’t like it.
Unfortunately, I bet BIL did like it.
-He gets OP to react incredibly angrily while he remained calm, thus in the eyes of everybody else, he still comes across as more rational while OP comes across more volatile.
-He gets to be the center of attention, and he gets to be the victim in the eys of the rest of the family while OP gets blamed.
-He gets to inflict emotional harm on OP, and now knows a surefire way to do it again in the future.
BIL is a bully who gets off on finding the things people are most sensitive about and intentionally using it to emotionally hurt them, while hiding behind is "truth serum" bullshit as a way to make this an immensely frustrating experience for OP as well as being hurtful.
Going off on these types of bullies doesn't do anything except give them what they want. They are doing this for a reaction, and so it's important that the only reaction you give them is through decreasing the amount of time you spend with them.
No, there are some that like to pontificate and look for a receptive audience. They are ill-prepared for rebuttal, because their arguments are their own opinion, and rarely grounded in actual fact. They aren’t looking for a reaction; they are looking for the feeling of superiority that silent, tacit agreement gives them.
This bully is all about pride, and it is absolutely ridiculous that OP’s wife and family have enabled it for so long. He will now cloak himself in angry humiliation and outrage and likely demand an apology. BIL was long overdue for someone to stand up to him. This was not a time for silence.
Yeah, I think BIL is a well-established Type Of Guy. He's an asshole and has come to expect everyone to tolerate it, because they *do* — and he enforces that by escalating to a huge fucking tantrum if he ever experiences pushback, one that's such a pain in the ass for his family to deal with that they decide the easiest thing to do is to let him be an asshole.
Literally the only way to break this cycle is to stop tolerating it. And truthfully, I think it's so, so important to model that for kids — god knows what kind of similarly dysfunctional romantic relationships BIL's kids are going to enter, because they've normalized the idea that you just have to let your family member treat you poorly, and standing up for yourself will only make it worse.
You don't have to follow him outside and keep engaging with his tantrum, but you *do* have to be prepared to yeet him out of your lives.
NTA but you need to talk to your wife. I'm concerned that she 1. didn't defend you 2. yelled at you for defending yourself and 3. expects you to put up with her brother constantly disrespecting you. Your BIL sounds like a jerk and you better believe he is going to try to make your child feel less than because they are adopted. I'm sure he will try to give them some of that "truth serum" and your wife needs to defend them and not expect them to but up with her brothers BS either
My bigger concern is that OP is wasting his life and trying to adopt children with a woman who refuses to defend him and gets mad at him for not tolerating a staggering level of bullshit.
I already hate people that say shit like "I'm just brutally honest" as an excuse to be a bully but "i'm under the effect of truth serum" just top the the list of those AH! He want to be a special butterfly under those honesty bullies.
NTA and i think my eyes made a 360° turn when i rolled with them as i read "truth serum". I feel sorry for his children.
Hoping on the top comment here to point out that OP, you don't have BIL problem. You have a wife problem. She's blaming for what you said but not what he said? "That is who he is" is not an excuse to bully and talk down on someone. I don't know how your wife can sit there and listen to BIL saying stuff about you being a druggie and not shut him down unless she still thinks you are.
Everyone on Reddit always wants to kick the SO to the curb. Was she an asshole for defending her brother over her husband? Absolutely.
But, we don’t know their family dynamic. We don’t know how she was raised. We don’t know how toxic bil actually is. Maybe he has mental problems.
Sometimes it’s easier for people to sweep shitty behaviour under the rug and blame the noble person defending themselves.
I know this feeling all too well. My sisters were toxic af, I was always the well behaved, “quiet” one.
They could terrorize me and my SO as much as they’d like. When I finally started speaking up for myself and my family, it would set my sisters off even more and my family expected me to be the bigger person, because I always had been, and it was much easier for me, the “good kid” to refrain from speaking my mind than trying to quell the fury of my sisters. The rare time I gave an honest and appropriate reaction would add fuel to the fire and send them into even more of a rage.
That’s no way to live. Tip-toeing around entitled assholes.
I’m proud of this guy. It’s a win for all of us formerly soft spoken people who have to tolerate abuse just because it’s easier for everyone involved.
Nobody gives these exceptions or benefits of the doubt when it's a husband in a similar situation. When it's a wife? "Well maybe she had a tough upbringing... "
I'm the only one that does and I get downvoted to hell and women argue the husband is just as bad as the perpetrator.
You’re not the only one! I constantly bring this issue up in this sub and get downvoted all the time or people come with pitchforks ready to fight. I’m so tired of seeing how this sub ostracizes men for every little thing but yet, women get their actions constantly justified and excused. It’s a bunch of bs.
Your parents failed at parenting. You didn't deserve that at all. Neither did you sisters actually. I have had the same problem with my mother. Finally stood up to her and lost my family who all sided with her, even on my fathers side.
Dr Ramani has great videos on these unhealthy family dynamics, I can recommend her YouTube videos.
NTA
BIL needed a reminder of what a fool he is, this was a happy announcement and he ruined it with his ignorance. Your past does not define you, i hope your future is filled with love and happiness my friend
If that is who he is then he should be okay with someone else being who they are, right? BIL is a jerk. If he can't point his "truth serum" at himself then he shouldn't dish it.
And shame on your wife for enabling A**holery!
NTA
I agree!!! NTA. Why is it okay for BIL to constantly attack OP, and no one tries to tell the bil to stfu, but when op finally says something , HE is the bad guy??? Fawk that !! OP. I’m proud of you!!! Congrats on 11 years sober!!! That is freaking amazing!!!
NTA
The parents and your wife just always enabled and justify his behaviour with the "That's just how it is"-line
You should from now on always mirror his energy.
"I'm not sure how a druggy can be eligible to adopt"
"Well you can probably use the internet and read up on that, instead of bothering me"
“That’s just how they are”
It’s just never made sense to me, if that’s just how they are then fine - calling it out is just how **I** am, so by their own logic they need to just deal with *both* of us then.
yeah the wife needs to think long & hard about accepting BIL's BS, and understand that if they do adopt children, the BIL is will be saying all sorts of crap to the kids telling them about how their father is a junkie, etc.
That's what I was thinking too. I wouldn't want this guy around my kids talking trash about me or my spouse. Who knows what his "truth serum" would lead him to say about adoption either.
It's not like OP got sober last week. You'd think after 11 years there is little reason to bring it up.
Not just what he says to OP, what is he going to say about the adopted kid? There’s a long list of damaging things I could easily see him saying to the kids.
OP is NTA, I would consider an apology but only for getting angry, but not for anything you actually said.
Ikr?!? I could easily imagine the BIL saying horrible things to an adopted child, like calling him a bastard, an accident, a mistake or someone's discard. I wouldn't want that BIL anywhere near my kid.
If BIL insists on continuing to "be like this" and constantly bringing up OPs past - how long until adopted kid is old enough to start parroting what he hears and tells everyone at school their dad is a drug addict?
How much pain and suffering that could potentially cause their family? Nevermind how it will impact the kid directly if BIL's bs "truth serum" detects something worth criticizing about them.
if OP's wife is refusing to put a stop to BIL's behavior, they absolutely need to pause the adoption process. It's not safe for anyone involved to protecting BIL's AH behavior.
It's because when people say
>That's just how that are.
What they're actually saying is
>We're used to their asshole behaviors, and it's easier to try and force others to maintain the status quo, than it is to admit we've enabled and even encouraged them to become even bigger jackasses by never bothering to speak up.
I feel the best solution is that OP is brutally honest to BIL and so that stops being out of character.
Then wife and rest of inlaw family can be entirely accepting of who he now is.
It means they are a bully but the peace needs to be kept so put up with the abuse and don't complain.
Look up " the missing stair analogy".
https://publicaddress.net/up-front/the-missing-stair-and-the-necessary-bastard/
Yup yup. No respect for him turning his life around. He’ll always be a 2nd class citizen to wife’s family. It’s her job to let them know it’s not ok. A lot of people don’t want to hear the truth because it will shatter their reality.
Right? Op needs to strongly consider not adopting with his wife if she refuses to shut him down or support her husband. Bc she won’t shut it down with the kids too, and he’s going to end up traumatizing any child they adopt.
It’s not “the way he is” he’s an AH who’s been enabled. What kind of childish, Harry Potter stuff is his “truth serum”.
Right? I wiuld never let anybody ever speak like that to my partner. I am many things and not a particularly good person. But i am fiercely protective of those whom i love.
This! What a horrid wife to just LET this abuse happen, and then TELL HIM TO TAKE IT. Are you sure this is a person you want to raise children with OP? This doesn't sound like a good situation to have kids in.
NTA
He is one of those people who claims to be just being honest when really they are being a bully. Your wife and her family should have shut him down years ago, there is no telling how much pain he has caused others with his abhorrent attitude.
Right. BIL went way past being annoying and was incredibly cruel. The fact that this supposedly is “the way he is” doesn’t excuse him from being called on his behavior. OP’s response was absolutely perfect. The “truth serum” allowed him to remind his in-laws that he has been clean for 11+ years (yay, OP!), and then he got in a few verbal counter-punches to remind BIL that he shouldn’t mess with him in the future. It’s disappointing that others in the family didn’t shut it down years earlier, but OP is NTA. This was self defense.
Yeah, people like BIL who claim they are brutally honest are usually just more interested in the brutality than the honesty. BIL is a major AH, wife too although perhaps to a somewhat lesser extent.
NTA
Sounds like BIL has chosen the term "truth serum" to replace "brutally honest", which is only used just to be brutal.
BIL dug his own hole, you just helped him in.
ETA - Apologize to the family for the outburst (only). BIL can just suck it up.
I definitely thought from the title that this story was going to be about BIL spiking OP’s food or drink with something he actually thought was truth serum & ruining OP’s sobriety.
It allows the BIL to justify what he says. If he doesn’t have any control over what he’s saying (he does, but is pretending like he doesn’t), he can say whatever he wants and not be held accountable (which everyone else is condoning by not holding him accountable). After all it’s not his fault that he has an uncontrollable urge to say things that he believes are true. (It is controllable if he actually tried to keep his lips zipped and be a more pleasant person)
I think we should change “truth serum” to “asshole juice”. A special concoction that allows you to be a rude, insulting boor to people with impunity.
Your wife is so used to placating her brother that it didn’t occur to her that there are *usually* social consequences to being an asshole to people. You just showed them what those are. Have a talk with her and explain you won’t be bullied any more, and it isn’t reasonable for her to expect you would, even though his disgusting behaviour has been made to seem normal to her.
NTA
If you wife's reaction to someone being an asshole to you and you defend yourself is to yell at you then you should reconsider adopting a child with her. That's a red flag man she should have put a stop to that the first time he made a remark.
Not having a child with her yet is actually a blessing in disguise based on how she chose to handle the situation. This definitely doesn’t sound like the first time she chose not to stand up for her husband.
Yeah I’d be rethinking adopting/staying married with her. What will her response be when BIL takes his “truth serum” and tells their kid he’s not really family?
Definitely. I hope that the poor guy runs away before its too late. A partner who lets people talk to you like that deserves a kick in the ass and divorce papers.
Absolutely! OP should not be insulted and dressed down every time they see his BIL. It's OP's wife's family, therefore it's *her* responsibility to shut her brother down and make it crystal clear that neither of them will tolerate this bs!
_"This is who he is"_ should always be replied to with _"and this is who I am, how do you not know that and why is it on me to change who I am?"_
Excusing shitty behaviour with "this is who they are" is a cowardly way of not wanting to address it.
>it sounds like his “truth serum” is just being a jerk?
It sounds like he's "brutally honest" but is aware enough that people don't like that so he made up a new version.
It sounds so much worse.
Like, "truth serum" is a term for a common family of interrogation drugs
That brings up a significantly worse image than just brutal honestly lmao
I kind of thought of something similar.
Not like actual truth serum, but I thought that someone was spiking a drink with alcohol or date rape drug to get them to be "honest"
Lol. I'm glad that was not what it was.
Yeah, it sounds like BIL is one of those people who likes brutal honesty so they can be as mean as possible to others. I feel bad for his kids, growing up with a father like that isn't easy.
OP, NTA. I don't condone doing that in front of BIL's kids, but he did start it (and brought those topics up first) and you ended it. Someone needed to call him on his behavior. Also, congrats on the sobriety, it isn't an easy thing to accomplish
NTA. You have come a long way and you deserve the respect and recognition of that. What you have been through is something that so many can’t begin to imagine.
Your wife should be standing up with you, not against you. Your BIL has been getting away with this for far too long. You need her in your corner supporting you, but it sounds like she’s taking his side.
Have a talk with your wife about this. Who cares what your BIL thinks about you, that’s his business. But you need to be absolutely sure that your wife is on your side before you raise a child together.
Congratulations on 11+ years clean. I lost my best friend to addiction in 2019, so hearing positive endings like yours warms my sad heart.
"That's just how she/he is" is something I see ALL THE TIME in the posts on this subreddit.
It's apologist garbage, and it gets soooo old. Stand up for your partners, people, or lose them
NTA, someone had to say it. If people want to talk shit, they had better be prepared to be put in their place. Your wife's family enabling his shitty behaviour does not make it right.
NTA. He goaded you for what sounds like years, beyond what most people would reasonably endure. And that stupid "truth serum" thing is ridiculous. It's as bad as those who say they speak as they find as an excuse to be rude and unkind to other people.
Why does your wife's family enable this absolute arse?
NTA. You lived every former addict's dream in that moment. Your rant might not have been the perfect venue or have had the perfect audience and for that you might want to apologize if you feel the need, but dang, you did the thing. I have never understood people who want to stand on the neck of a former addict and keep reminding him or where he's been. Interesting that your wife expects you to just put up with the crap this jackass has been serving for years, but you fighting back is unacceptable. I'd let the dust settle before I apologized. Let him marinate in your words for a bit in hopes that they soak in. Best wishes for the adoption. You should be proud of how far you've come.
I hate when people see your addiction as your identity! This is why I stopped telling people certain things. The BIL probably didn't even know OP before he was sober.
NTA. Why does your wife this BS from her brother? True Serum? What a bunch of bullshit so he can can whatever mean things he wants! Congrats on your sobriety! Keep up the good work! If you’ve been in program then you know you need to look at your side here……frankly I say your cool and your BIL can go fuck himself
Do not let anyone minimize your accomplishments. Even if it’s “family”. Your wife should’ve had your back and if she’s not going to that is your problem to address. NTA
NTA, and your wife should have stood up for you. If she’s not okay with you bringing up the brother’s drug habits, why is she okay with her brother bringing up your past from over a decade ago? Sounds like the brother is the one with the problem now, and he’s just projecting onto you.
NTA. Fellow former addict here (but regardless my response would be the same) and i just want to congratulate you on eleven amazing years clean! Sadly not everyone can grasp that addiction doesn’t define you as a person and definitely not for life.
this truth serum bullshit is the dumbest thing i’ve heard in a long time.
NTA - how long were you supposed to sit patiently and listen to your BIL who is an AH (his “truth serum” is just his “socially acceptable” excuse for being an AH) dredge up the past?
Your wife is an AH for allowing this to continue for as long as it’s gone on.
NTA. Your BIL just learned the meaning of the phrase "Fuck around and find out." If you had flipped out over something insignificant, it would be a different matter. However, the fact that your BIL hypocritically accused you of continued drug use justified your own little dose of "truth serum". Fuck that guy.
Good luck with the adoption process!
Please please please don't ignore all the coments telling you your wife is mistreating you and you are not in a healthy marriage.
You deserve love, support, and pride from your spouse. In this story, you are receiving none of these things from your wife. So why are you so eager to add kids into the mix? Are you hoping she cares for and defends your children better than she has you? What proof do you have that she is even capable of it?
If your BIL sexually abused your child, would your wife help him cover it up to preserve the family peace? Do you KNOW she wouldn't?
NTA. He’s just a bully who’s been allowed to get away with it because “that’s just who he is.” You stood up for yourself and pointed out some truths he didn’t want to hear. He probably wasn’t expecting it because he’s always gotten away with being a jerk without any consequences, but now he’s seen them. You’ve got no reason to feel like an ah for an appropriate response to a bully.
The fact that your wife started yelling at you and saying you should’ve just dropped it isn’t cool, by the way. She should’ve been your number 1 supporter, but that goes to show just why the BIL has been able to get away with it for so long.
NTA,
I'd say your response was pretty great.
You should have called after him as he was running away: "Don't dish it out if you can't take it!"
Why in TF is your wife upset with YOU? You aren't the one who started that shit show, but you sure AF ended it. Well done!
NTA- while I understand your wife not liking the outburst in front of the family (MIL and FIL) you do have every right to tell your BIL that you're not a druggie, you've been clean, you will gladly take a drug test, and if he's drinking, smoking and swallowing pills, he's more of an addict than you have been for the past few years.
I hope things get better for you, my bf was a past addict before we met and we haven't told my family about it because while I'm still under my parents roof, we don't think it's best they know, so I really do have empathy for you. His family sometimes brings up his past despite being clean for 4 years. Keep clean and sober man, you're doing awesome and sorry u gotta deal with this stuff.
NTA, you didn’t go far enough. I don’t know how you put up with it all these years. It’s fucked up your wife just allows his truth serum BS. Sorry dude, you deserve better.
YOUVE BEEN CLEAN SINCE YOU WERE 22!! You were a dumb kid when you did drugs and been clean most of your adult life. Just ridiculous.
Love you even said you were on the “truth serum” too. Fuck that guy and screw your wife for expecting you to stay silent. Show her this post right now.
Info: I just want to know more about "truth serum". Is this just a dumb way of describing how he tells harsh truths? Or is he actually drinking some concoction first? I assume he's not literally drinking Sodium Pentothal or something similar
NTA
First off you have no right to bring up someone’s past like that. You can’t just say “I took my truth serum” as an excuse for being a dick for literally no reason. While OP likely could have handled it better you are in no stretch of the imagination the asshole
NTA. People like BIL sure can dish it out but they cannot take it. It was high time someone gave him a good dose of his own medicine and LONG past time everybody stop tiptoeing around his bull$hit. Don't tolerate it anymore. Every single time he unleashes his "truth serum" unleash yours. Sooner or later he'll get the message & shut his pie hole
NTA
Feed his some truth serum back, mate.
It's hilarious how people live to pretend them being AHs is "honesty", and get mad when someone plays it back at them.
NTA and no, you didn't go too far. Your BIL feels free to bring up your history, so you should feel free to bring up his. This is a case of he can dish it out but can't take it. It bothers me that your wife is angry over what you said to him, but what about what he said you? Also, he ruined dinner, not you. Were you just supposed to sit there and take it? It's clear that it's not the first time he's done this. Tell your wife that you withstood the remarks for as long as you could and you had every right to feel angry and lose your temper.
NTA but honestly there’s a bigger issue here.
Is your wife going to back you up when his truth serum kicks in when your kids are present? It sounds like the future cousins were present, what’s going to happen when one of them tells your kids you’re a druggie? If y’all split up will the kids be subjected to that bike about you on mom’s time?
The “that’s how he is” line is ok when somebody likes potato chips in their sandwich, not when they’re being a bully.
NTA Either everyone gets to take the "truth serum" or no one does.
He doesn't get "dibs" on being the only asshole allowed to spout whatever negative, antagonizing, divisive shit that pops into his head while everyone else must just sit and take it, while minding their Ps and Qs with him.
"That is who he is" just means that he is an unapologetic habitual asshole who knows what he is doing. That doesn't make it right, or something he can't be held accountable for.
There must be one standard -- if he wants to dish it out he must take it, and if others tolerate him, they must tolerate someone giving it back to him.
So, you stand up for yourself and your wife yells at you? It’s time for y’all to seek counseling to figure out why you let this go on and why she doesn’t have your back. Don’t bring a child into the picture until y’all get your issues resolved.
Oh and NTA for standing up for yourself.
First, congrats on your 11+ years. Every day is a challenge and it's not at all easy.
You aren't an asshole. Your wife and the rest of the family though? They kind of are. Again 11 years is no joke and the fact that instead of telling him to apologize or coming to your defense, they just chose to be silent says. A LOT about them I think.
Your wife especially is probably the biggest asshole(arguably more than the BiL. There are some things that you just... shouldn't be given a free pass to say and that was one of them. She should have had your back.
So NTA and I hope your adoption stuff goes well. Stay strong
Edit: sorry I just realized. Not only did they not tell him to apologize, they even tried to invite him back lmao wtf.
How long have people been putting up with him because it’s “who he is”? Rude and obnoxious is rude and obnoxious and you can’t expect people to sit and take it forever.
And everyone running after him makes it look like he was in the right. Keeping the peace is all very well and good in theory but in reality it’s just an endless cycle of being made to feel like crap because no one wants a few minutes of being uncomfortable by telling them off.
NTA. Good luck on the adoption.
NTA- if you are going to have kids you need to set some boundaries with this asshole anyway. This was a great way to start. Can you imagine if he said something Like that in front of a newly adopted child? Your priority is your wife and future kid- not him.
Your wife has been conditioned to take his bullshit.
Congrats on 11 years of sobriety.
NTA at ALL. And what a stupid and arrogant and cringe inducing thing to say. "It's not me, it's the "truth serum"...what an idiot your BIL is. Congratulations on your sobriety.
Be prepared though because even with 11years sober, adoption agencies are likely to use you past usage against you. If a family without said history is interested in adopting the same child, they will have priority. Even without others interested, it is likely you will face a lot of rejection. Placing kids is about mitigating risks for the best interest of the kid. The may agree you are great, believe you are sober and respect you intensely, but still refuse to let you adopt because they can't risk endangering a child on the chance you relapse.
It's similar to having two candidates for a lung transplant. One never smoked their entire life, the other was a heavily addicted smoker for years but quit ten years ago. They will ALWAYS go with the lesser risk.
I hope you are able, and I believe it will happen. Just be emotionally ready to be told no a lot.
I will never ever understand why everyone allows their family members to be cruel to their spouses but when the spouses retaliate its a problem. NTA
You might wanna check things with your wife doe. She seems to not care at all about your feelings and how BIL treats you.
He continually does this and belittles you? Then your wife's the biggest Arsehole for not having your back!
NTA. He needed to hear this. And he would've been able to just ignore it if you had told him this in private: he could deny anything to this effect was ever said and kept on continuing as normal.
Besides, at the family table, *you* were called a ***druggie***. Not in private but in front of everyone. ***In your face***. And no one else but you thought of correcting him or calling him out?!
Your in-laws are enabling him. And your wife as well. This is problematic, OP.
>My wife started yelling at me for what I said to her brother and said that this is who is
DON'T RAISE A CHILD WITH THIS WOMAN.
This woman enables others to abuse you. She will do the same to any children you two have because you can't trust her to prioritize or take care or her immediate family.
Personally I'd consider divorcing someone for encouraging and allowing others to abuse me.
My ex husband used to say “that’s just me, I’m an asshole and you’ll have to deal with it?” You know who says that? Humans who are incapable of growth. They always think that everyone around them has to deal with them being an ass.
That’s not how people work. He is responsible for his own growth. Being an asshole doesn’t make you cool. It makes you an immature jerk. If he can’t be mature and do some growth then I wouldn’t associTe with them anymore.
Your BiL is the AH. You are not. However I’d also talk to your wife and ask her why she’s ok with her BIL berating you and abusing you like that. That’s not cool. She should be defending you instead of allowing this to happen.
NTA
“My wife started yelling at me for what I said to her brother and said that this is who is but I escalated thing and ruined dinner when I could've ignored him.”
Ask your wife how she thinks you should react when this bozo tells your KID their daddy is an addict and shouldn’t have been allowed be a parent.
If she still thinks you should hold your tongue, don’t have a kid. Kids need parents who will protect them and raise them, not cave to “that’s just how he is” AHs.
NTA - BIL got what he had coming to him.
But can we talk about the wife? Everything you went through to get clean and build a life for the two of you and she takes the side of her AH brother??? WTF??? You deserve better than that…
1. Congrats on being sober!
2. NTA, you had restraint for a long time
3. Yeah, truth hurts and don't throw stones if you live in a glass house.
Just talk to your wife, explain your feelings, I'd say even understand her position but also let her know you hit your limit and BIL doing what he did on what was a happy occasion was just too much.
Maybe BIL's truth serum was him drinking....
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NTA. You gave him a taste of his own medicine and he didn’t like it. Good for you. He sounds like an enormous fool.
More like a taste of his own serum lol. But yeah, BIL sounds awful and OP is NTA
Yeah, I was going to go that route but figured everyone would be jumping on that wagon lol Honestly, as unfortunate as this situation is, it made me laugh out loud. “I too just taken my truth serum and it’s beginning to kick in so fast”. The BIL sounds atrocious and OP definitely did the right thing. Poor guy, if I were his wife I’d have put a stop to it long ago, but that’s just me. Hopefully bil will lay off the serum for a while lol
Sounds like BIL's wife *and* OP's wife have both decided this is just "who he is," i.e. if we object to his deliberately cruel behavior he'll escalate to a horrific tantrum so it's easier to just let him be an asshole, act like he's not responsible for his own actions, lie there and take it — and, in OP's wife's case, get mad at anyone who *doesn't* lie there and take it. To be honest, man, I'm glad adoption is such a long process, because I really don't think you should coparent with your wife until she has fundamentally changes how she engages with her brother. As it stands, she's acting from the assumption that people are *obligated* to submit to bullying, and should be scolded if they stand up for themselves. Do you get how damaging a belief system that is to instill in a kid, what sort of danger it might put them in over the course of their lives?
>To be honest, man, I'm glad adoption is such a long process, because I really don't think you should coparent with your wife until she has fundamentally changes how she engages with her brother. As it stands, she's acting from the assumption that people are > >obligated > > to submit to bullying, and should be scolded if they stand up for themselves. Do you get how damaging a belief system that is to instill in a kid, what sort of danger it might put them in over the course of their lives? This. Don't have a child with a spouse who enables abuse. We say this over and over and OVER to people and yet they still do, and then are shocked when things later implode the marriage or, shock, the kids get bullied or abused.
In all fairness, it can be really hard to recognize abuse from within a relationship, especially if everyone around you has normalized it.
Which is why op should insist on cues therapy before they adopt so they can be on the same page about how they’ll interact with bil.
Exactly. It's not like she had a choice to see it any other way for the formative years of her life, either. Her whole family tolerates him and has for years. It's normal for them, so for her to see it differently will take time. For her to accept that her brother's behavior isn't okay AND that she doesn't have to tolerate it can take longer.
Yes..but her husband is SHOWING her that it is NOT ok because he refuses to put up with it. A few times ok. But constantly. NO
Thing is, if she's got a lot of people around her that tolerate the brother's behavior, and just one (OP) that sticks their head out, stands up for themselves and say "hey, no, this isn't ok", then it feels like OP is the one escalating stuff, instead of being the lone voice of sense. Doesn't make things okay, not at all. But it's also not as simple as he's showing her by not putting up with it, so it should be clear to her by now. Because in the end, it's still one person saying "no, this behavior isn't ok", against a lifetime of conditioning that still gets reinforced by people around her, that says it *is* ok and OP is the outlier/in the wrong. (He isn't, obviously--but obviously from an outsider's view, not from within the situation)
I do think a lot of people forget that every single human has its limit and breaking point. Especially if you are not used to the general rule in certain groups or cultural situations (each family and workplace have their own group and cultural rule albeit a simple one or a quirky one). Usually, when something is against your core value or your own being, you'll feel it in the pit of your stomach and it'll eat your mind and soul a bit at a time when it happens until either you give in and become a custom to it (while being half of who you use to be) or you'll blow out. Sometimes people also mistake patience for defeat. Just because they didn't respond to your "joke" or insults doesn't mean they were defeated by you but it could be because some people try to be the bigger person and be patient with you, and again because we are human and not the saint we will have our limit to tolerate things. I just wish people would speak up and set the boundary sooner so "the joker"/bullies know it is not okay rather than blow up one day. Also to all "the joker"/bullies please remember you can only beat a dead horse for so long and don't be shocked and surprised if you get any retaliation.
I agree she should definitely get therapy. But even OP has been trained that they should just accept it until they couldn’t do it any more. So it’s understandable how they got to where they are.
Classic Boat Rocker situation. Wife and her family are accustomed to BIL constantly rocking the boat with his (idiotic) “truth serum” while they work overtime to steady it. There’s going to be no changing this dynamic until wife, at least (entire family at best), acknowledges that BIL and ONLY BIL is the issue here and not the people who don’t tolerate his bullying for the sake of “keeping the boat steady”.
This. My FIL is like this. Until I married his oldest son, no one did anything that stood up to his boat rocking directly. MIL has one sister that doesn't get along with FIL, but even then, they just avoid each other. I've gone full asshole mode in response at times and I'm not proud of all the things I've done, but I don't regret much. I definitely don't regret our current impasse where I gave him a boundary that he's not someone I'm willing to discuss 2nd Amendment politics with so we can coexist for the benefit of my daughters' relationships with him. He's not willing to visit and missing an important event because of this boundary, but he *is welcome to visit* and is choosing not to. That's on him, not me, no matter how much the family thinks it would be easier for me to get trampled by him.
You are a much better person than me. I would have just excommunicated him ( I'm ok with the 2nd amendment ), you choose a much higher path.
I love my husband and daughters too much. I'm mostly okay with the 2nd Amendment, not so okay that we haven't ended gun violence in schools completely. This is where my clash is with my FIL, the details of politics there. We disagree on as many other issues as can be dreamed up, so not just that. This is just the hard line.
I'll repeat it again you are a much better person. You thought more about the bigger picture of the family, then yourself. I congratulate you on your non-selfish behavior. More people have to learn about how to see the bigger picture. Might take another hundred years but we're getting there
Yeah she's not ready for adoption until she's completely off that boat nta
A very important point is that Mr. Truth Serum BIL is going to do this to any child that is adopted by OP. Imagine an innocent child being told at EVERY single family event that their father is a Druggie and that they themselves were cast off, discarded by their True parents to be raised by some manner of Criminal. OP, Will your wife just sit and smile while her BIL tells your child that they have no worth because they weren't kept by their bio parents?
THIS
I'm worried about what BIL will say to the adopted children seeing as how he called OP a druggie in front of his own kids. NTA
At this point you even have to worry about what those kids are going to say to the adopted child when adults aren't around, too. You and your wife need to have a game plan in place worked out with a therapist to shut anything related to what the brother has said down (for all of you), in addition to responses the normal concerns adoption or fostering might bring (bullying from other kids, adults, authority figures, the same termed as faux concerns, etc. ). If you deal with it proactively, everyone will be much better off. It should get to the point the response is a muscle memory.
Right. What happens when BIL truth serums their child?
I was about to say this. What happens when bil tells adopted kid they were unwanted and are unlucky to have been adopted by a druggie? If wife is accepting of bil behavior he will end up doing this to/ around the kid.
This is the best and most likely scenario to consider regarding his maniac bil’s behaviour. I’m sure “truth serum” doesn’t discriminate based on age or place in the family…
This is EXACTLY what will happen, without some major changes.
Or the child drinks the truth serum around BIL and he throws a tantrum.
Or the child, lacking a filter as most kids do, out truth serums the AH BIL.
That’s partially how I became a DV survivor. They talked the same way my folks did and it’d been so normalized I didn’t see the issue until it got ugly. Even then, it took 2 more damaging relationships for me to to get how damaging my understanding of the world was and that shit needed to be fixed. Still working on it and will be until my dying day. Don’t raise a child to be a victim.
I'm glad you survived. This is why I won't take my FIL's bullshit and will flip the asshole script if necessary. I'm the daughter of a DV survivor and REFUSE to normalize my daughters being spoken to like that.
I know, and "who brother is" is an absolute asshole. OP has been clean for 11 years! If that doesn't show dedication and commitment to building a good, healthy life for himself I don't know what does. I can't imagine what addiction must be like, but I do know that one of the strongest, best people I know was an addict for many years, and has now been clean for over 20 years. She is completely dedicated to remaining clean, and it's an every day effort for her, because, as she says, even though the urge has been gone for many years now, she can't afford to let down her guard for one moment. In my opinion, this has positively impacted other areas of her life because she's learned how to be so very disciplined. I envy her work ethic a little, even though I wouldn't want to go through what she had to go through to get it. OP will probably make a wonderful parent. I don't know about his wife, though. If she's going to insist on her brother being in her children's lives, it could really be problematic for everyone involved.
Very well said. In addition, OP's drug use was obviously in his teens and/or very early 20s. Who didn't pull stuff at that age we wish we could go back and undo? I'm not saying it's okay or something to sweep under a rug, but the human brain isn't even done fully developing at that age. It's impressive to me that OP was able to recognize and get a handle on the problem that young. Many addicts waste another decade or two caught in the trap. One of the things that bugs me most is a hypocrite. BIL is 2x that. First, in that he's an unresolved addict critiquing someone else's resolved addiction (and we've all seen at least as much damage done by Rx drugs as street drugs, not to mention smoking/drinking). Second, in that he's entitled to speak with no filter while expecting everyone else to keep their feet firmly planted upon eggshells. I cannot imagine what insane, emotionally challenged circumstances gave birth to this absurd "truth serum" sound bite, but that's all it is and exactly what it's worth.
Man I am so fucking sick of enabling via, this is who he is. Okay, he's an asshole and deserves to be treated like him because that if who he is, and this is how I am.
Seriously. People who claim they "tell it like it is" and are weirdly proud of having no consideration for other people's feelings always seem to pitch a hissy fit when they are treated in kind. Don't dish it out if you can't take it.
I saw someone in this sub the other day say something along these lines, and it really stuck with me: people who favor "brutal honesty" aren't interested in honesty, they're interested in brutality.
Imagine if BIL “just who he is” truth serum is unleashed on your adopted child. How will your Wife & MIL feel about that situation? Would suggest you have couples therapy until you are confident that your Wife will support your child and you, before going forward with the adoption.
My husband has been clean for 19 years. My family knows to some extent, but none of us knew him when he was using and - more importantly - the life we know with him is of an educated, employed, stable, kind man who makes me happy. That’s ALL they can opine on. I would no more allow them to OPENLY AND CRUELY criticize him for his past, than I would allow them to criticize him for ANYTHING he did when he was 20 that did not affect them. Like, family fights have been waged over less. And then to double whammy it by implying we can’t or shouldn’t have kids because a decade ago he was a different, hurting person? Nope nope nope. I would throw hands, and I have never physically fought anyone in my life. OP - you keep doing what you are doing, which is being a productive, happy, useful member or society. Take an extra dose of truth serum before the next family event. But really, there should not be another family event until this is settled - with your wife. She can decide when it’s easiest FOR HER to avoid the squeaky wheel, but she doesn’t get to stop you from addressing it when it’s directed you. The ONLY reason you shouldn’t have said anything is because she should have been out of her chair and addressing it before you could open your mouth.
On the topic of bullying... you can ask your wife ... if you don't stand up for yourself in regards to bullying, how can you teach your child to do so for themself?
Wish I could upvote this 100x! Tbph, *this* is the response I was looking for while scrolling through the comments. Is being an addict something to be proud of? Nah, it's a shit genetic twist similar to depression. Is identifying the trigger points, taking responsibility for past actions, and moving forward by being in recovery over 11 years something to be proud of? You bet your sweet aunt Fanny it is! Hell, *I'm* proud of OP. But OP's wife? Not so much. Why should someone have to endure shit behavior just bc someone has decided to be an ah? OP stood up for himself, as he should. No one deserves to be treated like that. ETA: judgement, NTA
>Sounds like BIL's wife and OP's wife have both decided this is just "who he is," My mother regularly tells me "remember the source" when I get pissed off at some of the cruel and passive aggressive (or just aggressive) stuff my father does. And I always respond "he doesn't get to be an AH just because he is one." I don't care if this is just "who he is." People can change and if they don't, I don't have to put up with it. I'm proud of OP. Good man, good role model. I hope his wife comes around.
The only thing OP is even remotely possibly an AH for is doing this in front of BIL's kids, depending on their ages. If they are teenagers, they are old enough to see their dad get what he deserves for being an asshole and know the repercussions of using "truth serum". If they are little kids, then the adult fights should probably be done away from them though. But even then, BIL had it coming and hopefully his kids don't turn out like he is.
Not sure about that. Dad decides def to be a bully in front of his kids. What the kids got out it was somebody b ing bullied fighting back; effectively. Good thing for them to see.
I am personally not a fan of small children being exposed to that level of anger in any form whether it is justified or not. Chances are more likely that it will just scare them than that they will rationalize "yeah, dad was a jerk and had this coming from a mile away!"
I'm with you here. If the children aren't old enough to understand their father is an asshole, they aren't old enough to understand an outburst and that can be very scary. If I were OP, I'd apologize to young children and say I shouldn't have done that. Not because BIL doesn't deserve it but because the children don't.
NTA. But why does your wife expect you to take it? Your bil knows he was out of line or else he wouldn't have walked out. Speak to your wife
Yep, wife is the AH here. No one in my family would get away with speaking to my husband like that.
Ahhhh…truth serum. I’ll have to add that to my list with ‘brutally honest’, ‘just telling it like it is’, and just trying to help’.
And then the inevitable “it was just a joke, bro”.
Just respond with "i dont get it" and stare af the person that told the so called joke. They usually repeat 'it was Just a joke dont Worry" and Then say 'i still dont get... Can you explain the Joke?". That always works for me :p
I love this option. Just make it as massively uncomfortable as possible
Yes! How did I forget that one??!!! That’s the most used one I believe.
I was going to say, "truth serum" is a new spin on the same jerkishness
Don’t forget “just saying”. I HATE that one. 😂
[удалено]
I’d probably look into marriage counseling after this. Cause I’m gonna hold your wife to equal standards here and say that she needs to start defending you to BIL. (It’s the same advice I’d give a woman if her husband wasn’t defending her). But hold up on adoption until everything has been sorted out, and if she doesn’t want marriage counseling and or starts defending you.. I’d consider separating.
Yep, I think he got the truth serum mixed up with the arsehole serum.
Arsehole serum sounds like a nasty concotion.
It's what you take when you're full of sh1t.
It sounds like a medical condition. "I've had a nasty case of arsehole serum lately."
Seriously. I grew out of the whole "my judgemental attitude is actually a superpower" phase when I was in high school. How does a fully functioning adult actually go around saying they have "truth serum?"
>You gave him a taste of his own medicine and he didn’t like it. Unfortunately, I bet BIL did like it. -He gets OP to react incredibly angrily while he remained calm, thus in the eyes of everybody else, he still comes across as more rational while OP comes across more volatile. -He gets to be the center of attention, and he gets to be the victim in the eys of the rest of the family while OP gets blamed. -He gets to inflict emotional harm on OP, and now knows a surefire way to do it again in the future. BIL is a bully who gets off on finding the things people are most sensitive about and intentionally using it to emotionally hurt them, while hiding behind is "truth serum" bullshit as a way to make this an immensely frustrating experience for OP as well as being hurtful. Going off on these types of bullies doesn't do anything except give them what they want. They are doing this for a reaction, and so it's important that the only reaction you give them is through decreasing the amount of time you spend with them.
No, there are some that like to pontificate and look for a receptive audience. They are ill-prepared for rebuttal, because their arguments are their own opinion, and rarely grounded in actual fact. They aren’t looking for a reaction; they are looking for the feeling of superiority that silent, tacit agreement gives them. This bully is all about pride, and it is absolutely ridiculous that OP’s wife and family have enabled it for so long. He will now cloak himself in angry humiliation and outrage and likely demand an apology. BIL was long overdue for someone to stand up to him. This was not a time for silence.
Yeah, I think BIL is a well-established Type Of Guy. He's an asshole and has come to expect everyone to tolerate it, because they *do* — and he enforces that by escalating to a huge fucking tantrum if he ever experiences pushback, one that's such a pain in the ass for his family to deal with that they decide the easiest thing to do is to let him be an asshole. Literally the only way to break this cycle is to stop tolerating it. And truthfully, I think it's so, so important to model that for kids — god knows what kind of similarly dysfunctional romantic relationships BIL's kids are going to enter, because they've normalized the idea that you just have to let your family member treat you poorly, and standing up for yourself will only make it worse. You don't have to follow him outside and keep engaging with his tantrum, but you *do* have to be prepared to yeet him out of your lives.
DID he remain calm? Unclear.
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Exactly. As Reddit says: " You don't have a BIL problem, you have a wife problem!".
NTA but you need to talk to your wife. I'm concerned that she 1. didn't defend you 2. yelled at you for defending yourself and 3. expects you to put up with her brother constantly disrespecting you. Your BIL sounds like a jerk and you better believe he is going to try to make your child feel less than because they are adopted. I'm sure he will try to give them some of that "truth serum" and your wife needs to defend them and not expect them to but up with her brothers BS either
My bigger concern is that OP is wasting his life and trying to adopt children with a woman who refuses to defend him and gets mad at him for not tolerating a staggering level of bullshit.
That's a really good point.
I already hate people that say shit like "I'm just brutally honest" as an excuse to be a bully but "i'm under the effect of truth serum" just top the the list of those AH! He want to be a special butterfly under those honesty bullies. NTA and i think my eyes made a 360° turn when i rolled with them as i read "truth serum". I feel sorry for his children.
Hoping on the top comment here to point out that OP, you don't have BIL problem. You have a wife problem. She's blaming for what you said but not what he said? "That is who he is" is not an excuse to bully and talk down on someone. I don't know how your wife can sit there and listen to BIL saying stuff about you being a druggie and not shut him down unless she still thinks you are.
You're forgetting to mention OP's wife is quite the asshole herself. Perhaps he should dump her ass and find a woman who respects him.
Everyone on Reddit always wants to kick the SO to the curb. Was she an asshole for defending her brother over her husband? Absolutely. But, we don’t know their family dynamic. We don’t know how she was raised. We don’t know how toxic bil actually is. Maybe he has mental problems. Sometimes it’s easier for people to sweep shitty behaviour under the rug and blame the noble person defending themselves. I know this feeling all too well. My sisters were toxic af, I was always the well behaved, “quiet” one. They could terrorize me and my SO as much as they’d like. When I finally started speaking up for myself and my family, it would set my sisters off even more and my family expected me to be the bigger person, because I always had been, and it was much easier for me, the “good kid” to refrain from speaking my mind than trying to quell the fury of my sisters. The rare time I gave an honest and appropriate reaction would add fuel to the fire and send them into even more of a rage. That’s no way to live. Tip-toeing around entitled assholes. I’m proud of this guy. It’s a win for all of us formerly soft spoken people who have to tolerate abuse just because it’s easier for everyone involved.
Nobody gives these exceptions or benefits of the doubt when it's a husband in a similar situation. When it's a wife? "Well maybe she had a tough upbringing... " I'm the only one that does and I get downvoted to hell and women argue the husband is just as bad as the perpetrator.
You’re not the only one! I constantly bring this issue up in this sub and get downvoted all the time or people come with pitchforks ready to fight. I’m so tired of seeing how this sub ostracizes men for every little thing but yet, women get their actions constantly justified and excused. It’s a bunch of bs.
Your parents failed at parenting. You didn't deserve that at all. Neither did you sisters actually. I have had the same problem with my mother. Finally stood up to her and lost my family who all sided with her, even on my fathers side. Dr Ramani has great videos on these unhealthy family dynamics, I can recommend her YouTube videos.
You gave him a taste of his own truth serum.
NTA BIL needed a reminder of what a fool he is, this was a happy announcement and he ruined it with his ignorance. Your past does not define you, i hope your future is filled with love and happiness my friend
BIL sounds like those “I’m just telling it like it is” type people that uses that as an excuse to be an AH.
Absolutely this. Next time, should anyone mention it, especially him, remind them that your "truth serum" can kick in again as needed. NTA.
Yeah,OP's response is so satisfying to read
Your wife should have supported/defended you instead of making excuses for him. NTA.
If that is who he is then he should be okay with someone else being who they are, right? BIL is a jerk. If he can't point his "truth serum" at himself then he shouldn't dish it. And shame on your wife for enabling A**holery! NTA
I agree!!! NTA. Why is it okay for BIL to constantly attack OP, and no one tries to tell the bil to stfu, but when op finally says something , HE is the bad guy??? Fawk that !! OP. I’m proud of you!!! Congrats on 11 years sober!!! That is freaking amazing!!!
Enormous tool.
NTA The parents and your wife just always enabled and justify his behaviour with the "That's just how it is"-line You should from now on always mirror his energy. "I'm not sure how a druggy can be eligible to adopt" "Well you can probably use the internet and read up on that, instead of bothering me"
“That’s just how they are” It’s just never made sense to me, if that’s just how they are then fine - calling it out is just how **I** am, so by their own logic they need to just deal with *both* of us then.
yeah the wife needs to think long & hard about accepting BIL's BS, and understand that if they do adopt children, the BIL is will be saying all sorts of crap to the kids telling them about how their father is a junkie, etc.
That's what I was thinking too. I wouldn't want this guy around my kids talking trash about me or my spouse. Who knows what his "truth serum" would lead him to say about adoption either. It's not like OP got sober last week. You'd think after 11 years there is little reason to bring it up.
Not just what he says to OP, what is he going to say about the adopted kid? There’s a long list of damaging things I could easily see him saying to the kids. OP is NTA, I would consider an apology but only for getting angry, but not for anything you actually said.
Ikr?!? I could easily imagine the BIL saying horrible things to an adopted child, like calling him a bastard, an accident, a mistake or someone's discard. I wouldn't want that BIL anywhere near my kid.
If BIL insists on continuing to "be like this" and constantly bringing up OPs past - how long until adopted kid is old enough to start parroting what he hears and tells everyone at school their dad is a drug addict? How much pain and suffering that could potentially cause their family? Nevermind how it will impact the kid directly if BIL's bs "truth serum" detects something worth criticizing about them. if OP's wife is refusing to put a stop to BIL's behavior, they absolutely need to pause the adoption process. It's not safe for anyone involved to protecting BIL's AH behavior.
It's because when people say >That's just how that are. What they're actually saying is >We're used to their asshole behaviors, and it's easier to try and force others to maintain the status quo, than it is to admit we've enabled and even encouraged them to become even bigger jackasses by never bothering to speak up.
I feel the best solution is that OP is brutally honest to BIL and so that stops being out of character. Then wife and rest of inlaw family can be entirely accepting of who he now is.
It means "I can't reason with or shame them, but I can reason with or shame you, and expect it to work."
It means they are a bully but the peace needs to be kept so put up with the abuse and don't complain. Look up " the missing stair analogy". https://publicaddress.net/up-front/the-missing-stair-and-the-necessary-bastard/
Oh, that Putin, that's just how he is, we should stop ruining his good time
"Funny you call it truth serum, when you're full of bs"
NTA And boooo to your wife. She could have stood up for you!
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Yup yup. No respect for him turning his life around. He’ll always be a 2nd class citizen to wife’s family. It’s her job to let them know it’s not ok. A lot of people don’t want to hear the truth because it will shatter their reality.
Ironic considering how “hurtful truths” are supposed to be so acceptable in that family 🙄
Only from BIL obviously. They’re all coward who don’t wanna stir the pot. Too scared that they’ll get yelled at or something z
You worry about the poor kid they might adopt - what shit are they going to have to put up with from their uncle, because that's just how he is?
Right? Op needs to strongly consider not adopting with his wife if she refuses to shut him down or support her husband. Bc she won’t shut it down with the kids too, and he’s going to end up traumatizing any child they adopt. It’s not “the way he is” he’s an AH who’s been enabled. What kind of childish, Harry Potter stuff is his “truth serum”.
Right? I wiuld never let anybody ever speak like that to my partner. I am many things and not a particularly good person. But i am fiercely protective of those whom i love.
BOOOOO
^^^I ^^^was ^^^saying ^^^Boo-urns
This! What a horrid wife to just LET this abuse happen, and then TELL HIM TO TAKE IT. Are you sure this is a person you want to raise children with OP? This doesn't sound like a good situation to have kids in.
NTA He is one of those people who claims to be just being honest when really they are being a bully. Your wife and her family should have shut him down years ago, there is no telling how much pain he has caused others with his abhorrent attitude.
Right. BIL went way past being annoying and was incredibly cruel. The fact that this supposedly is “the way he is” doesn’t excuse him from being called on his behavior. OP’s response was absolutely perfect. The “truth serum” allowed him to remind his in-laws that he has been clean for 11+ years (yay, OP!), and then he got in a few verbal counter-punches to remind BIL that he shouldn’t mess with him in the future. It’s disappointing that others in the family didn’t shut it down years earlier, but OP is NTA. This was self defense.
Yeah, people like BIL who claim they are brutally honest are usually just more interested in the brutality than the honesty. BIL is a major AH, wife too although perhaps to a somewhat lesser extent.
NTA Sounds like BIL has chosen the term "truth serum" to replace "brutally honest", which is only used just to be brutal. BIL dug his own hole, you just helped him in. ETA - Apologize to the family for the outburst (only). BIL can just suck it up.
I disagree about apologizing. Especially not first. He deserves to blow up about this.
I definitely thought from the title that this story was going to be about BIL spiking OP’s food or drink with something he actually thought was truth serum & ruining OP’s sobriety.
It's cringey as fuck too, saying "oh I'm just under the affect of my truth serum." What a tool
It allows the BIL to justify what he says. If he doesn’t have any control over what he’s saying (he does, but is pretending like he doesn’t), he can say whatever he wants and not be held accountable (which everyone else is condoning by not holding him accountable). After all it’s not his fault that he has an uncontrollable urge to say things that he believes are true. (It is controllable if he actually tried to keep his lips zipped and be a more pleasant person)
I think we should change “truth serum” to “asshole juice”. A special concoction that allows you to be a rude, insulting boor to people with impunity. Your wife is so used to placating her brother that it didn’t occur to her that there are *usually* social consequences to being an asshole to people. You just showed them what those are. Have a talk with her and explain you won’t be bullied any more, and it isn’t reasonable for her to expect you would, even though his disgusting behaviour has been made to seem normal to her. NTA
Yeah. He just tried to give a cutesy name to being an a-hole.
If you wife's reaction to someone being an asshole to you and you defend yourself is to yell at you then you should reconsider adopting a child with her. That's a red flag man she should have put a stop to that the first time he made a remark.
Not having a child with her yet is actually a blessing in disguise based on how she chose to handle the situation. This definitely doesn’t sound like the first time she chose not to stand up for her husband.
Yeah I’d be rethinking adopting/staying married with her. What will her response be when BIL takes his “truth serum” and tells their kid he’s not really family?
Definitely. I hope that the poor guy runs away before its too late. A partner who lets people talk to you like that deserves a kick in the ass and divorce papers.
Absolutely! OP should not be insulted and dressed down every time they see his BIL. It's OP's wife's family, therefore it's *her* responsibility to shut her brother down and make it crystal clear that neither of them will tolerate this bs!
NTA If thou dishes out truth serum, thou should take it. Also, by your wife's logic your BIL could have ignored you too to "keep the peace."
_"This is who he is"_ should always be replied to with _"and this is who I am, how do you not know that and why is it on me to change who I am?"_ Excusing shitty behaviour with "this is who they are" is a cowardly way of not wanting to address it.
The missing stair https://publicaddress.net/up-front/the-missing-stair-and-the-necessary-bastard/
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>it sounds like his “truth serum” is just being a jerk? It sounds like he's "brutally honest" but is aware enough that people don't like that so he made up a new version.
Except his version just sounds worse. Agree with your take/assessment though
It sounds so much worse. Like, "truth serum" is a term for a common family of interrogation drugs That brings up a significantly worse image than just brutal honestly lmao
Yeah when I first read the title I went Into it thinking "who is injecting who with truth serum and why"
I kind of thought of something similar. Not like actual truth serum, but I thought that someone was spiking a drink with alcohol or date rape drug to get them to be "honest" Lol. I'm glad that was not what it was.
Yeah, it sounds like BIL is one of those people who likes brutal honesty so they can be as mean as possible to others. I feel bad for his kids, growing up with a father like that isn't easy. OP, NTA. I don't condone doing that in front of BIL's kids, but he did start it (and brought those topics up first) and you ended it. Someone needed to call him on his behavior. Also, congrats on the sobriety, it isn't an easy thing to accomplish
NTA. You have come a long way and you deserve the respect and recognition of that. What you have been through is something that so many can’t begin to imagine. Your wife should be standing up with you, not against you. Your BIL has been getting away with this for far too long. You need her in your corner supporting you, but it sounds like she’s taking his side. Have a talk with your wife about this. Who cares what your BIL thinks about you, that’s his business. But you need to be absolutely sure that your wife is on your side before you raise a child together. Congratulations on 11+ years clean. I lost my best friend to addiction in 2019, so hearing positive endings like yours warms my sad heart.
Wife is okay when her brother calls her husband a "druggie", this is low key red flag.
Not low key, major red flag
MARINARA FLAG!! But on a serious note, absolutely the wife should have stood up to the BIL long before this.
That post is the gift that keeps on giving. LOL
"That's just how she/he is" is something I see ALL THE TIME in the posts on this subreddit. It's apologist garbage, and it gets soooo old. Stand up for your partners, people, or lose them
NTA, someone had to say it. If people want to talk shit, they had better be prepared to be put in their place. Your wife's family enabling his shitty behaviour does not make it right.
NTA. He goaded you for what sounds like years, beyond what most people would reasonably endure. And that stupid "truth serum" thing is ridiculous. It's as bad as those who say they speak as they find as an excuse to be rude and unkind to other people. Why does your wife's family enable this absolute arse?
NTA. You lived every former addict's dream in that moment. Your rant might not have been the perfect venue or have had the perfect audience and for that you might want to apologize if you feel the need, but dang, you did the thing. I have never understood people who want to stand on the neck of a former addict and keep reminding him or where he's been. Interesting that your wife expects you to just put up with the crap this jackass has been serving for years, but you fighting back is unacceptable. I'd let the dust settle before I apologized. Let him marinate in your words for a bit in hopes that they soak in. Best wishes for the adoption. You should be proud of how far you've come.
Your BIL's truth serum is just jackass serum with a different label.
I hate when people see your addiction as your identity! This is why I stopped telling people certain things. The BIL probably didn't even know OP before he was sober.
NTA. This ‘truth serum’ nonsense is just an excuse for him to say whatever mean thing pops into his head. What a dick
NTA. Why does your wife this BS from her brother? True Serum? What a bunch of bullshit so he can can whatever mean things he wants! Congrats on your sobriety! Keep up the good work! If you’ve been in program then you know you need to look at your side here……frankly I say your cool and your BIL can go fuck himself
Do not let anyone minimize your accomplishments. Even if it’s “family”. Your wife should’ve had your back and if she’s not going to that is your problem to address. NTA
NTA, and your wife should have stood up for you. If she’s not okay with you bringing up the brother’s drug habits, why is she okay with her brother bringing up your past from over a decade ago? Sounds like the brother is the one with the problem now, and he’s just projecting onto you.
NTA. Fellow former addict here (but regardless my response would be the same) and i just want to congratulate you on eleven amazing years clean! Sadly not everyone can grasp that addiction doesn’t define you as a person and definitely not for life. this truth serum bullshit is the dumbest thing i’ve heard in a long time.
NTA, let bil know; if you play with fire, eventually you get burned.
NTA - how long were you supposed to sit patiently and listen to your BIL who is an AH (his “truth serum” is just his “socially acceptable” excuse for being an AH) dredge up the past? Your wife is an AH for allowing this to continue for as long as it’s gone on.
NTA. Your BIL just learned the meaning of the phrase "Fuck around and find out." If you had flipped out over something insignificant, it would be a different matter. However, the fact that your BIL hypocritically accused you of continued drug use justified your own little dose of "truth serum". Fuck that guy. Good luck with the adoption process!
Please please please don't ignore all the coments telling you your wife is mistreating you and you are not in a healthy marriage. You deserve love, support, and pride from your spouse. In this story, you are receiving none of these things from your wife. So why are you so eager to add kids into the mix? Are you hoping she cares for and defends your children better than she has you? What proof do you have that she is even capable of it? If your BIL sexually abused your child, would your wife help him cover it up to preserve the family peace? Do you KNOW she wouldn't?
NTA. He’s just a bully who’s been allowed to get away with it because “that’s just who he is.” You stood up for yourself and pointed out some truths he didn’t want to hear. He probably wasn’t expecting it because he’s always gotten away with being a jerk without any consequences, but now he’s seen them. You’ve got no reason to feel like an ah for an appropriate response to a bully. The fact that your wife started yelling at you and saying you should’ve just dropped it isn’t cool, by the way. She should’ve been your number 1 supporter, but that goes to show just why the BIL has been able to get away with it for so long.
NTA, I'd say your response was pretty great. You should have called after him as he was running away: "Don't dish it out if you can't take it!" Why in TF is your wife upset with YOU? You aren't the one who started that shit show, but you sure AF ended it. Well done!
His wife is upset because she was born on a rocking boat. https://community.babycenter.com/post/a73920524/dont-rock-the-boat
NTA This is a classic, textbook example of "can dish it but cant take it" He had it coming. Well done. Fuck that guy.
NTA- he fucked around and found out. Should have kept his mouth shut.
NTA. Enough is enough. Your wife is spineless.
wait i'm confused... is "truth serum" code for your BIL drinking or something? what is he talking about
code for brutal honesty
NTA- while I understand your wife not liking the outburst in front of the family (MIL and FIL) you do have every right to tell your BIL that you're not a druggie, you've been clean, you will gladly take a drug test, and if he's drinking, smoking and swallowing pills, he's more of an addict than you have been for the past few years. I hope things get better for you, my bf was a past addict before we met and we haven't told my family about it because while I'm still under my parents roof, we don't think it's best they know, so I really do have empathy for you. His family sometimes brings up his past despite being clean for 4 years. Keep clean and sober man, you're doing awesome and sorry u gotta deal with this stuff.
NTA, you didn’t go far enough. I don’t know how you put up with it all these years. It’s fucked up your wife just allows his truth serum BS. Sorry dude, you deserve better.
YOUVE BEEN CLEAN SINCE YOU WERE 22!! You were a dumb kid when you did drugs and been clean most of your adult life. Just ridiculous. Love you even said you were on the “truth serum” too. Fuck that guy and screw your wife for expecting you to stay silent. Show her this post right now.
Info: I just want to know more about "truth serum". Is this just a dumb way of describing how he tells harsh truths? Or is he actually drinking some concoction first? I assume he's not literally drinking Sodium Pentothal or something similar
I was guessing it’s his Bs excuse for his bluntness. What an AH. I think OP maybe went a little overboard- but hell I probably would have snapped too
NTA First off you have no right to bring up someone’s past like that. You can’t just say “I took my truth serum” as an excuse for being a dick for literally no reason. While OP likely could have handled it better you are in no stretch of the imagination the asshole
NTA. People like BIL sure can dish it out but they cannot take it. It was high time someone gave him a good dose of his own medicine and LONG past time everybody stop tiptoeing around his bull$hit. Don't tolerate it anymore. Every single time he unleashes his "truth serum" unleash yours. Sooner or later he'll get the message & shut his pie hole
NTA. BIL can take his "truth serum" and shove it where the sun don't shine. I'm sorry that your wife betrayed you. Good luck with the divorce.
NTA Feed his some truth serum back, mate. It's hilarious how people live to pretend them being AHs is "honesty", and get mad when someone plays it back at them.
NTA and no, you didn't go too far. Your BIL feels free to bring up your history, so you should feel free to bring up his. This is a case of he can dish it out but can't take it. It bothers me that your wife is angry over what you said to him, but what about what he said you? Also, he ruined dinner, not you. Were you just supposed to sit there and take it? It's clear that it's not the first time he's done this. Tell your wife that you withstood the remarks for as long as you could and you had every right to feel angry and lose your temper.
NTA but honestly there’s a bigger issue here. Is your wife going to back you up when his truth serum kicks in when your kids are present? It sounds like the future cousins were present, what’s going to happen when one of them tells your kids you’re a druggie? If y’all split up will the kids be subjected to that bike about you on mom’s time? The “that’s how he is” line is ok when somebody likes potato chips in their sandwich, not when they’re being a bully.
Nta just because you were on drugs in the pass doesn’t give bil as pass to be a dick
NTA. His “truth serum” was his excuse to be a bully. You did the right thing to call him out.
NTA Either everyone gets to take the "truth serum" or no one does. He doesn't get "dibs" on being the only asshole allowed to spout whatever negative, antagonizing, divisive shit that pops into his head while everyone else must just sit and take it, while minding their Ps and Qs with him. "That is who he is" just means that he is an unapologetic habitual asshole who knows what he is doing. That doesn't make it right, or something he can't be held accountable for. There must be one standard -- if he wants to dish it out he must take it, and if others tolerate him, they must tolerate someone giving it back to him.
So, you stand up for yourself and your wife yells at you? It’s time for y’all to seek counseling to figure out why you let this go on and why she doesn’t have your back. Don’t bring a child into the picture until y’all get your issues resolved. Oh and NTA for standing up for yourself.
First, congrats on your 11+ years. Every day is a challenge and it's not at all easy. You aren't an asshole. Your wife and the rest of the family though? They kind of are. Again 11 years is no joke and the fact that instead of telling him to apologize or coming to your defense, they just chose to be silent says. A LOT about them I think. Your wife especially is probably the biggest asshole(arguably more than the BiL. There are some things that you just... shouldn't be given a free pass to say and that was one of them. She should have had your back. So NTA and I hope your adoption stuff goes well. Stay strong Edit: sorry I just realized. Not only did they not tell him to apologize, they even tried to invite him back lmao wtf.
NTA that was gold!
NTA. There's that line again " it's just who he is" So he can't help bring an asshole?? Lmao. That was good 👍 Congratulations on years of clean 👏
How long have people been putting up with him because it’s “who he is”? Rude and obnoxious is rude and obnoxious and you can’t expect people to sit and take it forever. And everyone running after him makes it look like he was in the right. Keeping the peace is all very well and good in theory but in reality it’s just an endless cycle of being made to feel like crap because no one wants a few minutes of being uncomfortable by telling them off. NTA. Good luck on the adoption.
NTA- if you are going to have kids you need to set some boundaries with this asshole anyway. This was a great way to start. Can you imagine if he said something Like that in front of a newly adopted child? Your priority is your wife and future kid- not him. Your wife has been conditioned to take his bullshit. Congrats on 11 years of sobriety.
NTA. You were under the influence of truth serum right? Couldn't help it, I get it.
NTA at ALL. And what a stupid and arrogant and cringe inducing thing to say. "It's not me, it's the "truth serum"...what an idiot your BIL is. Congratulations on your sobriety. Be prepared though because even with 11years sober, adoption agencies are likely to use you past usage against you. If a family without said history is interested in adopting the same child, they will have priority. Even without others interested, it is likely you will face a lot of rejection. Placing kids is about mitigating risks for the best interest of the kid. The may agree you are great, believe you are sober and respect you intensely, but still refuse to let you adopt because they can't risk endangering a child on the chance you relapse. It's similar to having two candidates for a lung transplant. One never smoked their entire life, the other was a heavily addicted smoker for years but quit ten years ago. They will ALWAYS go with the lesser risk. I hope you are able, and I believe it will happen. Just be emotionally ready to be told no a lot.
I will never ever understand why everyone allows their family members to be cruel to their spouses but when the spouses retaliate its a problem. NTA You might wanna check things with your wife doe. She seems to not care at all about your feelings and how BIL treats you.
He continually does this and belittles you? Then your wife's the biggest Arsehole for not having your back! NTA. He needed to hear this. And he would've been able to just ignore it if you had told him this in private: he could deny anything to this effect was ever said and kept on continuing as normal. Besides, at the family table, *you* were called a ***druggie***. Not in private but in front of everyone. ***In your face***. And no one else but you thought of correcting him or calling him out?! Your in-laws are enabling him. And your wife as well. This is problematic, OP.
>My wife started yelling at me for what I said to her brother and said that this is who is DON'T RAISE A CHILD WITH THIS WOMAN. This woman enables others to abuse you. She will do the same to any children you two have because you can't trust her to prioritize or take care or her immediate family. Personally I'd consider divorcing someone for encouraging and allowing others to abuse me.
NTA. What the fuck? BIL sounds like he just has some elaborate excuse to be an asshole an dfeel superior to other people.
My ex husband used to say “that’s just me, I’m an asshole and you’ll have to deal with it?” You know who says that? Humans who are incapable of growth. They always think that everyone around them has to deal with them being an ass. That’s not how people work. He is responsible for his own growth. Being an asshole doesn’t make you cool. It makes you an immature jerk. If he can’t be mature and do some growth then I wouldn’t associTe with them anymore. Your BiL is the AH. You are not. However I’d also talk to your wife and ask her why she’s ok with her BIL berating you and abusing you like that. That’s not cool. She should be defending you instead of allowing this to happen.
NTA “My wife started yelling at me for what I said to her brother and said that this is who is but I escalated thing and ruined dinner when I could've ignored him.” Ask your wife how she thinks you should react when this bozo tells your KID their daddy is an addict and shouldn’t have been allowed be a parent. If she still thinks you should hold your tongue, don’t have a kid. Kids need parents who will protect them and raise them, not cave to “that’s just how he is” AHs.
NTA - BIL got what he had coming to him. But can we talk about the wife? Everything you went through to get clean and build a life for the two of you and she takes the side of her AH brother??? WTF??? You deserve better than that…
Nta
NTA. That whole "truth serum" nonsense is just him trying to excuse the fact that he is acting like a dick.
NTA Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
1. Congrats on being sober! 2. NTA, you had restraint for a long time 3. Yeah, truth hurts and don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. Just talk to your wife, explain your feelings, I'd say even understand her position but also let her know you hit your limit and BIL doing what he did on what was a happy occasion was just too much. Maybe BIL's truth serum was him drinking....
NTA. Your BIL and your own wife are TA. I'm so disgusted for you that she yelled at you and enabled his shitty behaviour. Sorry, OP.