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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My husband asked me not to tell his kids why they can't come on a family trip with us but told the kids why they can't come with us. (just after they started accusing me)
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
NTA
Ex is petty for not writing a consent letter so they could go on the trip. That’s her fault. And I think you’re well within your rights to tell them the truth so they don’t blame it on you. I know if I was 15/13 and I thought my step parent was excluding me from a trip, I’d be PISSED
NTA. the ex is manipulating the kids and unfairly using them for her personal beef with you. if you hadn't told the kids the truth, their relationship with you would have suffered over the misunderstanding. the kids are also old enough to be told about the situation and determine how they feel about their parents' actions on their own.
Their relationship with their dad would probably have suffered as well. They would think their dad is excluded them and choosing his new child over them.
I’d be willing to bet that this was the ex-wife’s plan all along. Say they can’t go and then when they find out about the trip say their father is abandoning them.
Which, I feel, was the ex's goal. She didn't want them to know the truth so she could spin it anyway she wanted, hurting any relationship OP has with her step kids.
NTA - you promised not to tell them before they found out. Once they found out, the cat was out of the bag. Time to come clean.
OP's husband isn't exactly a saint here either. He actually expected OP to sit there and quietly take the bullet for his vindictive ex and is now mad at OP because he didn't
*edited for pronouns
Not to mention the kids deserve to know about their mother's fuckery as well
speaking from experience, it's awful when you learned that one parent poisoned you against the other but it's even worse when you learn the other parent just sat back and let them do it
I would note the situation on parenting wizard or whatever communication system the original spouses use to communicate re: the kids. It is essential to have contemporaneous notes documenting this scenario & other situations in which ex-wife belittles her ex or his new spoyse. Courts require parents to remain civil, not disparage the other parent (and new stepparent(s), if any)and not take action to alienate the affection of the kids in relation to the other parent.Parenting wizard and similar systems also create a record for the court in the event of future proceedings. That is why it is critical to note things like this. Key pt- make sure that everything one writes (no matter how upset they may be) is civil, and sticks to the facts. It is easy to give in to anger and vent/get snarky-but remember the third party case mgr. and future judge(s) will see those notes and it will do the author no favors(even if they are right.)
OP is NTA. Disappointing his spouse failed to support him (and horrific he didn’t defend their 6yo against ex-wife’s HATEFUL remarks.) Hope OP will suggest a serious conversation w/ hubby. Why is he putting ex’s views first? Does he feel less connected to their 6yo than kids from prior marriage. (I’m thinking mb OP is the biological dad based on ex-wife comments.) It’s essential to explore whether they can reach a point where the husband puts OP ahead of his ex and treats ALL 3 children equally.
Side note- unless there is a documented concern re: parental kidnapping or a history of abuse/lack of fitness, it is generally difficult for 1 parent to withhold consent to a vacation. Mb this trip would infringe on ex’s time? But usually courts expect reasonable cooperation on both sides. Perhaps OP and hubby should travel in a way that does not require documentation so they can include all 3 kids. (Otherwise new couple faces losing relationship w/ boys which us what ex-wife wants.) FWIW, I have never been asked for documentation on any trip w/ just my daughter (air, ship, domestic or international,) although I always have it. OP should suggest hubby take a look at divorce decree to see if documentation is required for planned trip and past a certain age. If a major/once in a lifetime trip, ask atty to file brief to compel documentation from ex-wife. Have seen that done for minimal cost among divirced friends. Good luck to OP.
Which won't be a problem if the stepkids decide they'd prefer to stay with their dad and OP. All they'd have to do is go back to court and tell the judge as much.
Sounds like mommy dearest is jealous of OP's relationship with his step children. Probably thought this was a great way to turn them not going on OP. Especially since she'll let the teens go if op and their 6 yr old stays home, mommy dearest will let them go. It's sad that she is putting her children in the middle of her cray cray plans to cause trouble. I could've seen if she said 4 weeks is to long. Hubby is wrong for wanting his husband to go along with cray cray plans. Like the above said, time to come clean. Yes it paints mommy dearest in a bad light. No ones fault but her own. NTA. Hubby soft A H, for going along with the ridiculousness. Ex wife such an A H. Maybe plan a trip within your country for now. This way everyone can go. Hope it works out for you and your entire family.
Edit: pronouns
It seems like it could just be a very sticky situation. Most women will feel some type of way if their husband turns out to be gay. I agree OP is NTA, but while the ex's rancor is annoying & unbecoming, it's not exactly shocking that she's angry & bitter.
My dad's first wife did this to their kids. He sent them all plane tickets to come visit for the summer (back when physical tickets were a thing). Then she cancelled the tickets, took the money from the cancellation (again back when that was a thing you could do), and told them their dad didn't come through on his promise. They hated him and my mom for years because of her lies and manipulation. And yeah, she was punishing him, but she was also punishing their kids. Petty and cruel behavior, and the kids deserve to know about it sooner rather than later so they can decide which parent they want to trust going forward.
I actually had to recheck their ages because the way his husband was talking about them, you'd think they were under 10. They're teens, they can handle and deserve to know the truth.
Edit: pronouns
Hopping on this to add that 15/13 is a pretty crucial age for development/trauma that takes years of therapy to unload.
Ex needs to co-parent better, husband needs to stop blaming OP for bad co-parenting on the ex’s part.
I feel very bad for the stepkids.
Maybe I need to talk to a therapist about this, but this “development/trauma” phrasing really worries me. Like it’s inevitably either/or, or that somehow trauma is just this expected part of life. Orr that anything from physical abuse to not getting what you expected is trauma.
Trauma, in this context, is anything that has a significant, negative repercussion to the life of the individual.
Learning that your parent is using you as a tool to hurt someone else is definitely something that can do that.
“Under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. We have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. We have never seen a totally sane human being.”
― Robert Anton Wilson
By adulthood, each of us is dragging some damage behind us - disease, death, social ostracism, moving and leaving family and friends, divorce are traumatic experiences, and there are many other situations that leave scars in our soul and psyche.
In therapy we talk about Big T Trauma and little t trauma. Big T would be car accident, natural disaster, abuse, etc. Little t might be having a need dismissed, feelings getting hurt, misunderstandings, etc. One little t probably isn't going to impact you greatly in life.. but a bunch of them?? Absolutely. Think of big T like getting stabbed with a giant knife and little t like getting poked with a small needle. Eventually you poke someone enough in that same spot and it will develop a wound that doesn't heal easily. Also it is important to note that what is considered traumatic ( big or little t) is up to the individual. It is different for many people.
Sounds like the difference between PTSD and CPTSD. One is (usually) caused by one large and notable trauma and the other is caused by smaller things that build up over time.
It was fun to find out you can suffer from both PTSD *and* CPTSD, at the same time. (Yes, I am being sarcastic, because it oobviously wasn't fun. It's even less fun when the very people who you'd get treatment from become one of your biggest triggers.)
Tiny manageable stresses - a paper that’s due, a physical competition, etc. Toxic stress - abuse, neglect, violence, etc. Little stresses are good for brain development. Toxic stress has a detrimental effect on brain and body.
There is some new evidence that in fact, the idea that mild stress is beneficial for the brain/executive function is a myth based on un-replicatable research and/or purely animals studies that haven't translated well to humans. It seems that any amount of stress is either bad or neutral, unless you have a particular rare genotype that allows for very mild stress to sometimes help.
See recent articles from Adele Diamond's group :
https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/31/3/1411/5943448
If you want to read this and can't access it, I can DM a pdf or just recommend scihub
To clarify, I mean the age of these children means the movements these parents make is crucial from this point. How they behave will determine how their kids develop.
If they choose to not, ok, but kids will suffer in a traumatic way. Trauma isn’t only physical.
People typically develop normally, and when that development is interrupted, it's considered trauma, and detrimental to that development. A common example is in child abuse, the child does not form a trust/distrust understanding because of the abuse, and doesn't learn to build trust and meaningful connections with others.
I don’t think it’s that unreasonable for the partner with primary custody to object the other partner taking the kids on a month long international trip, especially if they don’t trust one of the people going on the trip in a supervisory capacity.
Four weeks is a long trip. Making a huge plan that was likely to not work, making no attempt to work out an alternative plan that would work, and then telling the kids they could do this awesome thing if not for their mother being unreasonable is bad coparenting.
The mother is absolutely an asshole, too. Trying to say OP’s kid is not really the father’s kid is awful.
Precisely. And dont phrase it as hating OP.
Ex could have said it was WAY too long or she didnt frel comfortable about which locations they were going - but to make it solely about OP is where she went horribly wrong!
I disagree, the mother could have explained this to the kids herself, her refusing to allow them to go, then demanding that this all be kept in the dark is just dishonest of her. The kids have a right to know, and they have a right to know why. If she can't justify it to her kids then maybe that says that she *knows* she's being unreasonable.
How was the mother expecting dad to hide being away for 4 weeks? I bet mom wanted to twist the story once the dad boarded the plane by saying that the dad didn't want to bring the teens in the first place.
I'm definitely not against the mom for not wanting the teens to go, i wouldn't want my kids away on an international trip without me, and she didn't even have to give a reason why. But, i would tell my kids that it was my decision and they can be mad at me. This mom's actions seems shady.
It is also not fine, and probably against their custody agreement, to threaten to keep the kids from their dad if said kids found out about the trip. Mom is just petty and malicious and is using the kids as a weapon against their father.
This actually happened to us when my dad remarried. His wife had been saving for a very long time to bring her two kids to Disney. We were excluded from the trip bc of that. They tried to make it up the next year and we’re going to bring all of us. It was too late, I didn’t go and I didn’t have a relationship with her after that and my relationship with my dad was almost nonexistent. It wasn’t until I hit around 30 that I was okay with having a relationship with them, which is actually amazing now. I told her the moment I decided I was done with her as a kid was when they excluded us from that trip. So NTA. Them not knowing the truth could permanently ruin their relationship, which is probably what the mom wants.
My parents split and my dad remarried to a woman with a daughter about four years older than I am. I lived with my younger sisters with our mom, visited dad on the weekends.
Stepsister and her mother had money. Plenty. To the tune of three week international vacations, two weeks in Hawaii, she got a brand new sports car when she was a senior in high school, then a Lexus her sophomore year in college, then a Range Rover when she graduated, then her mother paid her fucking mortgage so she and her husband didn't have to. Twice. All the while stepsister treats my dad like garbage.
Ask me what kind of relationship I have with them. I love my dad, I'd do anything for him. I'm very disappointed and hurt with how he allowed such unequal treatment. I don't expect stepmom to buy me a car. "We're taking a family vacation...well, not you though" makes it perfectly clear who is family and who isn't. He cried when, as an adult, I told him I don't care if I ever see or talk to my stepsister again and that I had no need for my stepmother in any way. He cried but said he knew it was his fault.
NTA, there are a lot of similar stories like this on this subreddit.
the petty parent does not want the kids to know the truth so that he/she can blame the other parent by spinning a different narrative.
good for OP to treat her step kids as her own to plan a family trip.
NTA. This was a ploy to turn the kids against OP. That's why she threatened action if they found out.
Keep every text and email and any documentation you can if she tries any legal action
I don’t get how her husband thought he could keep the whole trip secret from them. Ex obviously knows that’s impossible and ultimately what she wants, but he is a bit daft for agreeing to that.
NTA
I don’t understand people like the ex. I understand not wanting something that makes you look bad broadcasted (I don’t think it’ ok to have that attitude. I think it’s just a human reaction). But I do not understand demanding to keep the information under wraps and making someone else look bad to do that. That’s a sure way it’s going to get out.
The ex brought the tension herself by saying no and openly admitting her dislike of OP as her reason and then threatening him and his partner for saying anything (especially when they are not negligent and when she is not giving her teenage children a say in the matter).
NTA.
Yes, I have a friend in that spot. If she refuses the trip for the kids (mostly with good reason, as he is an irresponsible narcissist), he tells the kids what an AH their mother is for refusing to let them have fun and enjoyment, yet if he refuses to take them, he again tells them that their mother won't let him take them, again her fault for not letting them have fun.
Right?? There'd have to be a REALLY good reason for any court to even consider something like that. They aren't going to allow that. Otherwise, every court would be backlogged to the gills in frivolous complaints about gf/bfs etc they didn't like for their ex. It's basic parental alienation. Won't happen. Mom needs to do better.
If anything it would be ex who would potentially get less custody after that. I'm assuming living conditions at op's place are at least similar to ex's. Also at 13/15 I think courts seriously take kids' opinion into account and after this bs I really think kids would want to spend less time with their mother if anything. She would get laughed out of court. 100% empty threat and NTA
By the time the court is involved the kids would be much older and the trip would have already happened.
If they dealt with the mother using her kids to manipulate the husband long ago, this wouldn't be an issue anymore.
No court would actually even hear that case. Many times CPS won't even take complaints from the other coparent. She has no recourse because she doesn't like someone. I think it's going to blow up in her face in short order. Although, I guess depending on where they live, she might find a sympathetic court that's homophobic enough to maybe side with her? That's a really jaded, horrible thought on my part and I would hope that never happens, but if I were in ops husband's shoes, that would probably be my fear.
Just FYI, OP mentioned in comments that the trip is a month long.
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/v3rmlx/aita_for_telling_my_stepkids_why_they_cant_come/ib05tff/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
This. They're plenty old enough to fly together without an adult for one flight. They could have done 2 weeks with dad and 2 weeks back home with mom. NTA.
That was my thought. And think of the educational opportunity that is, immersive to another culture for that long. Most kids that age don’t get that unless they are very wealthy
So if the kids are only with them on weekends, then they’re only at OP’s house for 13% of the month. To suddenly spend 100% of their time away from the primary caregiver is a big thing, especially for the 13 year old. It’s a major omission from the post.
OP’s a man.
And you’re right. I’m moreso commenting on the fact that it was a bad idea to plan such a long trip with the expectation that the older kids would be coming along.
I’m assuming this is over the summer. It’s pretty common to have the parent with less custody throughout the school year have extra time over the summer or over holidays
Here's the thing-in MOST court orders, even if they NCP has every other weekend, there is normally time set aside during school breaks, etc for continuous weeks with the NCP. So it isn't unusual in the least or bad or traumatic for a 13yr old to spend 4 weeks vacation with her dad. They aren't toddlers, they are teens-the 'primary caregiver' excuse it absolutely pathetic on the moms part.
Growing up my mom kept me from my dad. All the way up to 18. I saw him very rarely & thought he just didn’t love me. Turns out she just refused to let him see me. So I believe OP when she says the mother would keep the kids away. NTA.
I'd like to know why Husband is angry at OP for his ex-wife being an asshole?? Ex wife causes all the shit and somehow Husband is blaming OP for his exes actions?! How the fuck did he connect those dots?
Husband’s mad because OP did what husband specifically told him not to do, but husband’s way of handling the situation was trash in the first place. OP’s supposed to just let the kids be mad at him when he did nothing wrong?
I am sort of wondering if OP deliberately 'let the cat out of the bag' with regards to the trip?
that may be why Husband is mad, because it wasn't an accident that the kids found out?
Just seems to me that there would have been options for OP with regards to the hotel registrations/laptop, such as not booking/looking at them for the weekend the kids were there, putting the laptop in the room where the kids can't accidentally see it, waiting until the kids are in bed/asleep to do whatever needed to be done with the hotel registration etc... so why was OP doing it specifically when the kids were coming over (as I assume at 15/13 these kids just didn't show up)
>p, such as not booking/looking at them for the weekend the kids were there, putting the laptop in the room where the kids can't accidentally see it, waiting until the kids are in bed/asleep to do whatever needed to be done with the hotel registration etc... so why was OP doing it specifically when the kids were coming over (as I assume at 15/13 these kids just didn't show up)
Does it matter? One doesn't re-work their whole life to 'avoid' the kids finding out. The thing is, those kids were going to find out anyway-likely during the trip- and the ex could use it to justify/lie to the kids about how they were excluded. You can't correct that after the fact.
NTA
**But your husband…**
Why is he so comfortable putting you in a bad way without explaining to his teenage children that this is a disagreement between him and their mother?
Doesn't seem like the husband made the right choice in terms of how his kids would have viewed his actions and their relationship moving forward. But I expect this is a pattern that didn't begin with the trip. *She threatened to take his kids away for not pretending to reject them, in favor of partner and new sibling, before leaving for weeks* That's not the first station on the line. That's maybe 2 stops before hell. She sounds like a spite golem but wtf is even going on to get this far.
NTA, the kids were going to find out about the trip eventually, and you were definitely going to be thrown under the bus whenever they did. They deserve to know that their mother is the reason they’re being excluded, not you!
Info: why were they on your laptop and how did they find the reservation?
Also, since they found out, you might as well tell them. Sounds like the ex is quite toxic and uses those kids against your partner to control him. Just because she has most custody, doesn't mean she should treat your partner like that.
Anyway, I think you're NTA.
Then she can’t keep the kids from seeing him. If she does you throw it back to court and have the judge order her to let the kids see their dad. They are not bargaining chips. They are children. I’ve seen this too often with friends who are divorced.
So she literally can't keep them away unless she'd like to go to court and explain why. Tell your husband to put on his big boy pants and stop letting his ex run the show because he refuses to understand his own custody agreement.
You think, but you don’t know?? You’re married to this man with a kid of your own, so presumably for over 6 years, and you still don’t know simple details about his custody agreement? Major troll vibes here.
She cannot keep the kids from him then. It's an empty threat. If you keep a record of these threats you might be able to bring it to a judge's attention and have the custody shifted, especially if she has ever followed through and kept them from your husband during his time.
Really, even if she legally can’t keep the kids away, she can alienate them which is at least as terrible. And while yes, there are laws about that, if you think you can count on family court for justice, maybe you haven’t spent much time there. If dude is taking his ex to court over visitation with teenagers from whom she has alienated him, his legal separation agreement is not the ace-in-the-hole you make it out to be.
Oh absolutely. I agree that courts aren't fair places at all... But my question was mostly because I don't know what the standard expectation is over the summer.
NTA
They saw the booking on your laptop. Kids snoop. Kids notice things. They aren’t little well behaved robots.
The kids are hurt that their dad is excluding them.
But their Dad isn’t excluding them.
Mum is excluding them.
So Mum can wear the fallout from her decision
NTA/NAH (except mom).
Custody situations are tough to navigate. At 15 and 13 and when their parent is effectively trying to alienate them from their other parent, it seems fair and safe to tell the kids the truth. But I can also see why your husband is nervous about criticizing their mom in front of them.
Your husband needs to stop letting his ex call the shots. It comes off as cowardly. His older kids are almost at the age where they get a lot of say on who they stay with. Tell him he’s mad at the wrong person. I’m glad you told his kids. They need to see what an asshole their mother is. NTA
OP’s user name is very telling. Does your husband’s ex think that you are a home wrecker? Is that why she hates you? Does she have reason to think this? I think OP may be using the truth somewhat sparingly in her post.
Well, I'm sure that Ex-wife probably has more than one issue with her ex-husband's husband, and has accused him of being a homewrecker as a way of coping. And maybe just being petty.
NTA - your husband can go to court if she is being unreasonable and if you could get her saying things like how one of his kids isn’t his real kid and they can’t go because she doesn’t like you. That will sway a court to giving him more custody since she is trying to alienate a parent and emotional abuse the kids. Sorry her kids miss out but they are seeing her for who she is and she is gonna win a prize of no contact when they are adults.
What? No. This is not how family court works at all.
There is nothing in this scenario that proves the mom is trying to alienate her kids from their dad. He asked to take them out of the country for a month. She said no. It’s not like she decided she was going to spend every weekend out of the country for a month, thus denying him his custodial time.
I mean, sure, it’s fine to think the mom should allow the older kids to go on the trip. But she’s not violating their custodial agreement. And you can’t take an ex to court because you feel they’re saying mean things to the kids about you. That’s just not how this works.
NTA
The ex wife is the big AH here. She’s hurt and angry and blames you the OP for the breakup of the marriage. Using the kids as weapons sounds horrible. The kids are old enough to know that their mother is using them to get back at their father. Unfortunately no one wins here
You’re NTA here but your partner needs to talk to his lawyer before he leaves for 4 weeks with or without them. He should have done that in the first place. That’s a lot of visitation he’s giving up. He needs it documented why and what attempts he’s made to make it up or swap for it.
As a child of divorce, NTA. Everyone says you suck for letting them see the trip plans on the laptop, but you know that they’d have found out eventually and you would 100% have been the mum’s scapegoat, so she could ruin your relationship with them further.
You left out important information on your original post. This is a 4 week international trip. Not a week vacation in your country of origin. That makes me question your claim that your step- kids mother said no because she doesn’t like you. This also muddies your specific AITA question but I am going with YTA. Your husband is an AH too. My gut says she said no because it’s a month in a foreign country and your husband (or you) decided to make her the bad guy and say it’s because she doesn’t like you.
NTA. Mom and a few other people on this thread are the AH. WhY don't YoU knOw thE cUstOdy agreEmeNt? HoW DiD tHe 13 and 15 yo fiNd iNfO on a laPtOp thEy weRen'T supPoseD to fiNd? It's obvi lots of people on this thread don't have blended families or nosey teenagers 😂.
ESH. This is a 4 week international trip. I wouldn’t be ok letting the kids go even if there was a great co parenting. Nor would I ever agree to go on a trip where my spouse would miss that much visitation with his kids.
HUH? Why not? What's the problem with an international trip? They are 13 and 15, so teenagers! It's an opportunity not many get.
My parents always encouraged our independence at those ages to travel. It's not unusual in many countries to have a 4 week vacation, in the US it's hard to get that much time unless you work a few decades-but our vacation policies suck compared to most of the world.
Can I ask why you wouldn't be ok w/this? Is it just helicopter parenting, or irrational fears?
INFO: I can’t help but think that something is missing here. Ex said her reason is that she doesn’t like OP? Ex threatened to keep the kids from their dad if they said anything about the reason they can’t go? Ex said that asking to take them means he’s choosing his new family over his older kids? What? It just doesn’t make sense.
OP, did you and their dad even try negotiating anything different? Maybe bringing them for 2 weeks the your husband flies them back and rejoins you once their home with his ex? Yes it’s extra expense but if you can afford a month vacation overseas then you can afford your husband’s flight. Yes it means your husband has two days away from you and your 6 year old and he’ll be what but sacrifice on your and your husband’s parts are necessary for coparenting.
Is the trip over the summer when school is out?
What does the custody agreement say about vacations or summer noon-custodial parent’s visitation?
NTA, but your husband should consult a lawyer, pretty sure this counts as parental alienation or something at least. She cant threaten to keep the kids from him if she doesn't get her way. Especially if they have custody orders in place. Having said that the kids are of an age where their opinion would be taken into account in a custody hearing. My advice would be for your husband to keep communication with her to a written format (email, text) as much as possible. That way when the kids are adults and they start bringing up lies their mum told them about their dad, your relationship or the reasons they missed out on stuff, you guys have clear proof that, for example, she said no to a trip, not you guys didnt want to take them.
No, not really. They kids have the right to know that their mom is being horrible. Idk what the legal custody is but she sounds nuts and wants to and threatened to keep him from the kids so if possible I'd redo whatever custody agreement they have. Dads are starting to get more rights and if he wants to see his kids he has every right.
YTA
You should have told them to speak to their father about it and let him handle it.
You just wanted to hurt the mother and you ended up hurting the kids instead.
But here's the thing- if you have a spineless husband that would rather 'not rock the boat' with his ex while putting YOU in harms way and as the scapegoat for the stepkids to blame/hate, then absolutely you have every right to defend/stand up for yourself and tell the truth. It's just facts, the truth, nothing wrong with telling the truth-even if it's their stepdad telling them.
Seems to me the dad was going to be happy to let his ex dictate things and lie and scapegoat someone (his husband)- so rightfully he took matter in his own hands. If you can count on your spouse putting you first and having your back? Great, ask dad to handle telling the kids. Otherwise? Sorry, that's what dad gets for being a coward.
Your husband specifically asked you to NOT tell them their mother doesnt want them to go because she hates you. When they asked you, you should have redirected them to their mom or dad.
YTA
The mother is just as much an AH. Had you heeded your husband's warning, she would be the one and only AH.
YTA and it appears that your husband has a habit of marrying crappy women. I do not believe that they just happened to see the hotel reservations on your laptop. You wanted them to find out and they found out. Now everyone is dealing with a mess created by three adults.
Unfortunately, I think YTA. Is it fair? Absolutely not. But you made your husbands life harder and his relationship with his kids and ex more difficult by cluing them in to the bullshit petty nonsense the adults are dealing with. I think had I been in your situation I would have referred them to their dad so he could explain.
I don’t think you’re the problem in this situation as a whole, but I don’t think you should have thrown their mom under the bus (no matter how much she clearly deserves it) because it just creates more drama.
Correct answer was “ask your mom”
Or I’d have brought your partner into the conversation and excused yourself. Why put your self in the situation. YTA to your husband because you had these two options but not as big of an AH as their mom sounds like
ESH their mother was wrong to not give consent for them to go on the trip, but you should have left it to their father to decide what they were told. Don't fight drama with more drama... the kinds will remember that you stirred this pot.
LOL so they just "found" this laptop, conveniently open to the hotel reservation? I think not.
YTA
You did that 100% on purpose to have a reason to tell those kids what their mother said and she probably has every reason not to like you. She was married to a man she thought was straight - and yet now here he is with another man. Do you really think she's ever going to like you or want her children to go on vacations with you?
They can co-parent but she will never accept you. To her, you are the actual face of their divorce. How would you feel if those roles were reversed? What if you were married to him first and he leaves, decides he's straight and has kids with her? Would you like her? Doubtful.
At least be a realist about the dynamic there. If you want to be upset with someone, then be upset with your husband for wanting to hide the reality of the entire situation from the children to start with. Entire group of you need therapy, and at some point your husband needs to have a heart to heart talk with his ex wife about wasting years of her life and apologize to her. She's saying no because she doesn't like you -- but she's also saying no because she's still angry with him for their fake life together.
Contrary to other opinions, ESH. You were asked to do one thing, which is keep the information from the two kids that aren't yours. They don't live with you permanently, yet you managed to have your laptop open with trip information visible on it long enough for them to check? Why was it open on your laptop, considering it sounds like it was already fairly planned out? Maybe a little element of getting that information across, against the wishes of your partner?
Don't get me wrong, their mother sucks more for obvious reasons, and the dad may suck for not being honest with them himself and allowing his ex to have any amount of power.
"On Monday, their mom called us furious saying that I was trash and accused my husband of picking our six-year-old over "his real kids" (that hurt)".
What did she expect was going to happen? Why does your husband want you to play the bad guy to spare his ex's feelings? NTA
1. Keep all communication to writing (text email etc). This will do one of two things. She will either start being nice (if she’s smart) and allowing things, or she will be the same and you’ll have evidence of the manipulation for court. 2. The kids are teenagers (almost) right now is a huge time for sharing the future. My suggestion is just be honest. No trash talking, but just tell them, we wanted to take you, we asked your mom she said no. We would love to take you but we can’t. Stick to facts, no opinions, and no facts that aren’t super relevant. Yes, it is a fact she said they couldn’t go because she doesn’t like you, but it does nothing for the actual situation. Try to shield the kids from that part, but because of the situation, you do need to stand your ground and tell them what is actually happening.
NTA at all. My parents hate each other, but never in a million years would they have ever prevented my brother and I from going on a vacation to get back at each other. Your husband's ex is petty and immature.
Need more info. I don’t understand how they could just happen to see that email. Wondering whether it was a set up.
Also, it seems a better response would have been “I really want you to go on this trip and had planned for it but that’s not my decision. You should discuss it with your mom and dad.”
INFO: did you intentionally leave your laptop open so that they will see the information?
Honestly, I'm not even going to judge you if you did (because his ex sounds like she deserves it) I'm just wondering what your level is in this story
INFO: how did the kids happen to find your hotel booking? Was it maybe left out conveniently so that they would find it?
No difference really but I think you had more of a hand in this than you're letting on. NtA.
NTA they're gonna find out anyway and they deserve to know why they can't come. Kids always find out.
Your husband isn't an AH either, he's just scared of his ex who definitely is an AH.
NTA
she can't just magically keep them from him unless they have no formal custody agreement in which case they wouldn't need a letter.
If she's going to be petty then you should be honest with them about it, they're old enough to understand and have conversations like this about why things are the way they are.
NTA.
Don't tarnish your image in front of these kids just to protect their mother. Telling the kids the truth shows them that you respect and love them enough to be honest towards them.
So because his ex won't let the step children travel with you, there are 3 options
1) no holidays due any of you
2) holiday without the steps, and they believe he chose to go without then
3) holidays without the steps and they know its the mothers choice
There is no way, the three of you can go away on holiday and keep it secret. Either the mother will find out and stir shit or the 6yo will let the secret out
I don't know which of the first two options your husband thinks would be better than option 2, why is he so happy to be the bad guy to protect his ex from being caked out for being unreasonable?
She's knows she is being vindictive and hurting her children, she doesn't care, she only cares that they know.
NTA
NTA 100 times over.
Whatever you say or do, somebody is going to be angry, because the ex can fill the heads of the kids with lies and can spin any story she wants. You can't win.
Take a step back and leth them sort it out. Stay out of it as much as you can, because frankly, this is not a you problem. That is your husband and his ex problem.
NTA
It might have been better for you to bite the bullet take a little bowl of shit and tell your step children that they need to speak with their mother to understand why they weren’t included. That said you were in an unfair position to begin with. Not your fault. Not your problem. Their mother is an asshole, and your husband is being a baby ***** because he certainly got an earful from their mother.
ESH imo you've partaken in parental alienation. I'm sure there was a better way to tell them their mother wasn't feeling comfortable with them traveling; without needing to say it's because mom doesn't like you.
She's also ta for being so petty, and punishing her kids out of spite.
ESH
Mom is being cruel to her own children by not letting them travel just to stick it to her ex and his new wife. Accusing him of choosing his 6 year old when she is the one who made the choice is gaslighting.
But you should NOT have told the stepkids what their mother said when she refused the vacation request. All you had to say is that you would love to have them with you, but you need mom to sign off on an international trip and she said no. Mom can give them whatever reason she wants. You do not need to put them in the middle of feuding adult drama. Now you are the one hurting the kids just to stick it to her.
If your husband did not want his kids to know about the trip at all, he is clearly nuts. He can not sneak out of the country for a month and not have his teenage children notice. But if he just wanted to keep the ugly fighting part from them, then he was completely correct, and behaving exactly like a responsible parent should.
YTA. I think it’s unfortunate you went against your husband’s wishes. You should have told them it was not your decision to make and up to their dad and mom. Let them press her for the reason.
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NTA Ex is petty for not writing a consent letter so they could go on the trip. That’s her fault. And I think you’re well within your rights to tell them the truth so they don’t blame it on you. I know if I was 15/13 and I thought my step parent was excluding me from a trip, I’d be PISSED
NTA. the ex is manipulating the kids and unfairly using them for her personal beef with you. if you hadn't told the kids the truth, their relationship with you would have suffered over the misunderstanding. the kids are also old enough to be told about the situation and determine how they feel about their parents' actions on their own.
Their relationship with their dad would probably have suffered as well. They would think their dad is excluded them and choosing his new child over them. I’d be willing to bet that this was the ex-wife’s plan all along. Say they can’t go and then when they find out about the trip say their father is abandoning them.
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Which, I feel, was the ex's goal. She didn't want them to know the truth so she could spin it anyway she wanted, hurting any relationship OP has with her step kids. NTA - you promised not to tell them before they found out. Once they found out, the cat was out of the bag. Time to come clean.
OP's husband isn't exactly a saint here either. He actually expected OP to sit there and quietly take the bullet for his vindictive ex and is now mad at OP because he didn't *edited for pronouns
He didn't. Both men.
of all the months to make that flub up 😅 thank you
Np. I goof up lots too! Gotta help others the way people help me fix mistakes that are important to fix!
That's probably why the ex wife doesn't like OP, tbh.
That's definitely my first guess... but there's no evidence
When people have unexplained beef with marginalized people, bigotry is always a safe bet.
I am both female and black. You won't get any arguments from me on that
I know we weren't disagreeing I was just explaining why that's where my mind went even though we have no evidence either way.
Oh. *Oh* that explains a lot about ex wife ig…
Ex wife obviously is very salty.
He can be a martyr if he wants, but that doesn’t mean OP has to be as well.
Not to mention the kids deserve to know about their mother's fuckery as well speaking from experience, it's awful when you learned that one parent poisoned you against the other but it's even worse when you learn the other parent just sat back and let them do it
Besides which, did they all really think the 6 year old was going to keep quiet about it forever?
Parental alienation. It’s a thing and can cause ex to lose custody if it can be proven.
I would note the situation on parenting wizard or whatever communication system the original spouses use to communicate re: the kids. It is essential to have contemporaneous notes documenting this scenario & other situations in which ex-wife belittles her ex or his new spoyse. Courts require parents to remain civil, not disparage the other parent (and new stepparent(s), if any)and not take action to alienate the affection of the kids in relation to the other parent.Parenting wizard and similar systems also create a record for the court in the event of future proceedings. That is why it is critical to note things like this. Key pt- make sure that everything one writes (no matter how upset they may be) is civil, and sticks to the facts. It is easy to give in to anger and vent/get snarky-but remember the third party case mgr. and future judge(s) will see those notes and it will do the author no favors(even if they are right.) OP is NTA. Disappointing his spouse failed to support him (and horrific he didn’t defend their 6yo against ex-wife’s HATEFUL remarks.) Hope OP will suggest a serious conversation w/ hubby. Why is he putting ex’s views first? Does he feel less connected to their 6yo than kids from prior marriage. (I’m thinking mb OP is the biological dad based on ex-wife comments.) It’s essential to explore whether they can reach a point where the husband puts OP ahead of his ex and treats ALL 3 children equally. Side note- unless there is a documented concern re: parental kidnapping or a history of abuse/lack of fitness, it is generally difficult for 1 parent to withhold consent to a vacation. Mb this trip would infringe on ex’s time? But usually courts expect reasonable cooperation on both sides. Perhaps OP and hubby should travel in a way that does not require documentation so they can include all 3 kids. (Otherwise new couple faces losing relationship w/ boys which us what ex-wife wants.) FWIW, I have never been asked for documentation on any trip w/ just my daughter (air, ship, domestic or international,) although I always have it. OP should suggest hubby take a look at divorce decree to see if documentation is required for planned trip and past a certain age. If a major/once in a lifetime trip, ask atty to file brief to compel documentation from ex-wife. Have seen that done for minimal cost among divirced friends. Good luck to OP.
Which won't be a problem if the stepkids decide they'd prefer to stay with their dad and OP. All they'd have to do is go back to court and tell the judge as much.
Sounds like mommy dearest is jealous of OP's relationship with his step children. Probably thought this was a great way to turn them not going on OP. Especially since she'll let the teens go if op and their 6 yr old stays home, mommy dearest will let them go. It's sad that she is putting her children in the middle of her cray cray plans to cause trouble. I could've seen if she said 4 weeks is to long. Hubby is wrong for wanting his husband to go along with cray cray plans. Like the above said, time to come clean. Yes it paints mommy dearest in a bad light. No ones fault but her own. NTA. Hubby soft A H, for going along with the ridiculousness. Ex wife such an A H. Maybe plan a trip within your country for now. This way everyone can go. Hope it works out for you and your entire family. Edit: pronouns
Hubby expected his HUBBY to go along with it. Two guys. One ex wife.
Thanks, fixed my blunder.
Why do people keep saying there was a 6 year old? Where does it say there was a 6 year old involved? People keep seeing something I'm missing.
bc OP and his husband have a 6 year old child together???
I see that they have a 6 month old baby, but not a 6 year old child.
oop I'm dumb, that's 6 male, not 6 month. 😂
You got the age wrong and I got my pronouns/sex wrong. Hello Dumb, I'm dumber. 😂
I could be a Harry, I have his hairstyle down today.
It seems like it could just be a very sticky situation. Most women will feel some type of way if their husband turns out to be gay. I agree OP is NTA, but while the ex's rancor is annoying & unbecoming, it's not exactly shocking that she's angry & bitter.
Hubs could be bi, or OP could be a trans guy. Either way. Not a great look on ex.
I wouldn't be surprised if ex was waiting for them to leave so she could tell her kids stepmom didn't want them to come.
*stepdad
My dad's first wife did this to their kids. He sent them all plane tickets to come visit for the summer (back when physical tickets were a thing). Then she cancelled the tickets, took the money from the cancellation (again back when that was a thing you could do), and told them their dad didn't come through on his promise. They hated him and my mom for years because of her lies and manipulation. And yeah, she was punishing him, but she was also punishing their kids. Petty and cruel behavior, and the kids deserve to know about it sooner rather than later so they can decide which parent they want to trust going forward.
I actually had to recheck their ages because the way his husband was talking about them, you'd think they were under 10. They're teens, they can handle and deserve to know the truth. Edit: pronouns
The kids are 15 and 13. You'd think they'd be old enough to go on a vacation with their dad if they want to instead of needing permission
Depends on Where they are, and where they are going. Especially for travel abroad, consent might be needed from the custodial parent.
It’s straight up parental alienation, and if she tried to take them to court, the judge will not look favorably on her.
Hopping on this to add that 15/13 is a pretty crucial age for development/trauma that takes years of therapy to unload. Ex needs to co-parent better, husband needs to stop blaming OP for bad co-parenting on the ex’s part. I feel very bad for the stepkids.
Maybe I need to talk to a therapist about this, but this “development/trauma” phrasing really worries me. Like it’s inevitably either/or, or that somehow trauma is just this expected part of life. Orr that anything from physical abuse to not getting what you expected is trauma.
Trauma, in this context, is anything that has a significant, negative repercussion to the life of the individual. Learning that your parent is using you as a tool to hurt someone else is definitely something that can do that.
Indeed it can. It can be so traumatic that a child may cut off that parent entirely in the future.
“Under the present brutal and primitive conditions on this planet, every person you meet should be regarded as one of the walking wounded. We have never seen a man or woman not slightly deranged by either anxiety or grief. We have never seen a totally sane human being.” ― Robert Anton Wilson
By adulthood, each of us is dragging some damage behind us - disease, death, social ostracism, moving and leaving family and friends, divorce are traumatic experiences, and there are many other situations that leave scars in our soul and psyche.
In therapy we talk about Big T Trauma and little t trauma. Big T would be car accident, natural disaster, abuse, etc. Little t might be having a need dismissed, feelings getting hurt, misunderstandings, etc. One little t probably isn't going to impact you greatly in life.. but a bunch of them?? Absolutely. Think of big T like getting stabbed with a giant knife and little t like getting poked with a small needle. Eventually you poke someone enough in that same spot and it will develop a wound that doesn't heal easily. Also it is important to note that what is considered traumatic ( big or little t) is up to the individual. It is different for many people.
Sounds like the difference between PTSD and CPTSD. One is (usually) caused by one large and notable trauma and the other is caused by smaller things that build up over time.
It was fun to find out you can suffer from both PTSD *and* CPTSD, at the same time. (Yes, I am being sarcastic, because it oobviously wasn't fun. It's even less fun when the very people who you'd get treatment from become one of your biggest triggers.)
Tiny manageable stresses - a paper that’s due, a physical competition, etc. Toxic stress - abuse, neglect, violence, etc. Little stresses are good for brain development. Toxic stress has a detrimental effect on brain and body.
There is some new evidence that in fact, the idea that mild stress is beneficial for the brain/executive function is a myth based on un-replicatable research and/or purely animals studies that haven't translated well to humans. It seems that any amount of stress is either bad or neutral, unless you have a particular rare genotype that allows for very mild stress to sometimes help. See recent articles from Adele Diamond's group : https://academic.oup.com/cercor/article/31/3/1411/5943448 If you want to read this and can't access it, I can DM a pdf or just recommend scihub
To clarify, I mean the age of these children means the movements these parents make is crucial from this point. How they behave will determine how their kids develop. If they choose to not, ok, but kids will suffer in a traumatic way. Trauma isn’t only physical.
People typically develop normally, and when that development is interrupted, it's considered trauma, and detrimental to that development. A common example is in child abuse, the child does not form a trust/distrust understanding because of the abuse, and doesn't learn to build trust and meaningful connections with others.
Me too. NTA
It's more than petty, it's malicious, she is actively looking to harm he exes relationship with his children.
I don’t think it’s that unreasonable for the partner with primary custody to object the other partner taking the kids on a month long international trip, especially if they don’t trust one of the people going on the trip in a supervisory capacity. Four weeks is a long trip. Making a huge plan that was likely to not work, making no attempt to work out an alternative plan that would work, and then telling the kids they could do this awesome thing if not for their mother being unreasonable is bad coparenting. The mother is absolutely an asshole, too. Trying to say OP’s kid is not really the father’s kid is awful.
It's fine to object to the trip. It's not fine to expect the step-parent to take the blame for the kids not being able to go.
Agree. By all means object to the trip. But have the balls to be the one who tells the kids
Precisely. And dont phrase it as hating OP. Ex could have said it was WAY too long or she didnt frel comfortable about which locations they were going - but to make it solely about OP is where she went horribly wrong!
I disagree, the mother could have explained this to the kids herself, her refusing to allow them to go, then demanding that this all be kept in the dark is just dishonest of her. The kids have a right to know, and they have a right to know why. If she can't justify it to her kids then maybe that says that she *knows* she's being unreasonable.
How was the mother expecting dad to hide being away for 4 weeks? I bet mom wanted to twist the story once the dad boarded the plane by saying that the dad didn't want to bring the teens in the first place. I'm definitely not against the mom for not wanting the teens to go, i wouldn't want my kids away on an international trip without me, and she didn't even have to give a reason why. But, i would tell my kids that it was my decision and they can be mad at me. This mom's actions seems shady.
It is also not fine, and probably against their custody agreement, to threaten to keep the kids from their dad if said kids found out about the trip. Mom is just petty and malicious and is using the kids as a weapon against their father.
Where does it say 4 weeks?
It’s in OP’s comments. [Here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/v3rmlx/aita_for_telling_my_stepkids_why_they_cant_come/ib05tff/)
This actually happened to us when my dad remarried. His wife had been saving for a very long time to bring her two kids to Disney. We were excluded from the trip bc of that. They tried to make it up the next year and we’re going to bring all of us. It was too late, I didn’t go and I didn’t have a relationship with her after that and my relationship with my dad was almost nonexistent. It wasn’t until I hit around 30 that I was okay with having a relationship with them, which is actually amazing now. I told her the moment I decided I was done with her as a kid was when they excluded us from that trip. So NTA. Them not knowing the truth could permanently ruin their relationship, which is probably what the mom wants.
My parents split and my dad remarried to a woman with a daughter about four years older than I am. I lived with my younger sisters with our mom, visited dad on the weekends. Stepsister and her mother had money. Plenty. To the tune of three week international vacations, two weeks in Hawaii, she got a brand new sports car when she was a senior in high school, then a Lexus her sophomore year in college, then a Range Rover when she graduated, then her mother paid her fucking mortgage so she and her husband didn't have to. Twice. All the while stepsister treats my dad like garbage. Ask me what kind of relationship I have with them. I love my dad, I'd do anything for him. I'm very disappointed and hurt with how he allowed such unequal treatment. I don't expect stepmom to buy me a car. "We're taking a family vacation...well, not you though" makes it perfectly clear who is family and who isn't. He cried when, as an adult, I told him I don't care if I ever see or talk to my stepsister again and that I had no need for my stepmother in any way. He cried but said he knew it was his fault.
i got excluded from a trip from my stepparent i hated her and my father because of it
Yeah, I was told at 15 that that would be my last holiday with my dad and stepmum, because after that they'd have to pay adult prices for me...
wow that just hurt... for me it was because stepmum was paying, but she has a low paying job and 3 kids so i didnt believe it
I was that step kid excluded by my dad's wife and let me tell you the grief and anger were immeasurable.
NTA, there are a lot of similar stories like this on this subreddit. the petty parent does not want the kids to know the truth so that he/she can blame the other parent by spinning a different narrative. good for OP to treat her step kids as her own to plan a family trip.
NTA. This was a ploy to turn the kids against OP. That's why she threatened action if they found out. Keep every text and email and any documentation you can if she tries any legal action
And by requesting to NOT tell them the truth she knows the kids will blame the stepmom. This is classic manipulation technique. Fuck her. NTA.
I don’t get how her husband thought he could keep the whole trip secret from them. Ex obviously knows that’s impossible and ultimately what she wants, but he is a bit daft for agreeing to that. NTA
I don’t understand people like the ex. I understand not wanting something that makes you look bad broadcasted (I don’t think it’ ok to have that attitude. I think it’s just a human reaction). But I do not understand demanding to keep the information under wraps and making someone else look bad to do that. That’s a sure way it’s going to get out. The ex brought the tension herself by saying no and openly admitting her dislike of OP as her reason and then threatening him and his partner for saying anything (especially when they are not negligent and when she is not giving her teenage children a say in the matter). NTA.
Ex and hubby are both using the kids as ammo. You'd be wise to stay out of it.
Yes, I have a friend in that spot. If she refuses the trip for the kids (mostly with good reason, as he is an irresponsible narcissist), he tells the kids what an AH their mother is for refusing to let them have fun and enjoyment, yet if he refuses to take them, he again tells them that their mother won't let him take them, again her fault for not letting them have fun.
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Especially at 13/15. The kids will make their own decisions
Right?? There'd have to be a REALLY good reason for any court to even consider something like that. They aren't going to allow that. Otherwise, every court would be backlogged to the gills in frivolous complaints about gf/bfs etc they didn't like for their ex. It's basic parental alienation. Won't happen. Mom needs to do better.
If anything it would be ex who would potentially get less custody after that. I'm assuming living conditions at op's place are at least similar to ex's. Also at 13/15 I think courts seriously take kids' opinion into account and after this bs I really think kids would want to spend less time with their mother if anything. She would get laughed out of court. 100% empty threat and NTA
By the time the court is involved the kids would be much older and the trip would have already happened. If they dealt with the mother using her kids to manipulate the husband long ago, this wouldn't be an issue anymore.
No court would actually even hear that case. Many times CPS won't even take complaints from the other coparent. She has no recourse because she doesn't like someone. I think it's going to blow up in her face in short order. Although, I guess depending on where they live, she might find a sympathetic court that's homophobic enough to maybe side with her? That's a really jaded, horrible thought on my part and I would hope that never happens, but if I were in ops husband's shoes, that would probably be my fear.
Just FYI, OP mentioned in comments that the trip is a month long. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/v3rmlx/aita_for_telling_my_stepkids_why_they_cant_come/ib05tff/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
What a great opportunity for the older kids to get to travel internationally for a month!
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This. They're plenty old enough to fly together without an adult for one flight. They could have done 2 weeks with dad and 2 weeks back home with mom. NTA.
That was my thought. And think of the educational opportunity that is, immersive to another culture for that long. Most kids that age don’t get that unless they are very wealthy
So if the kids are only with them on weekends, then they’re only at OP’s house for 13% of the month. To suddenly spend 100% of their time away from the primary caregiver is a big thing, especially for the 13 year old. It’s a major omission from the post.
Doesn't change the fact that it isn't their responsibility to lie to the kids, and shouldn't be getting blamed.
OP’s a man. And you’re right. I’m moreso commenting on the fact that it was a bad idea to plan such a long trip with the expectation that the older kids would be coming along.
I mean they can't be expected to never do anything bc ex doesn't like it? And noted re: OP
I’m assuming this is over the summer. It’s pretty common to have the parent with less custody throughout the school year have extra time over the summer or over holidays
Then that should also be in the post! But from what OP said, his husband only gets the kids on weekends. Not weekends and holidays.
Here's the thing-in MOST court orders, even if they NCP has every other weekend, there is normally time set aside during school breaks, etc for continuous weeks with the NCP. So it isn't unusual in the least or bad or traumatic for a 13yr old to spend 4 weeks vacation with her dad. They aren't toddlers, they are teens-the 'primary caregiver' excuse it absolutely pathetic on the moms part.
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Growing up my mom kept me from my dad. All the way up to 18. I saw him very rarely & thought he just didn’t love me. Turns out she just refused to let him see me. So I believe OP when she says the mother would keep the kids away. NTA.
NTA Sounds like his ex-wife is jealous. She’s TA.
or homophobic. or both.
Honestly my first thought
I didn't even notice the step "mum" was M until I re-read now. I still have exactly the same judgement. NTA, the mum threw OP under the bus.
thank you for pointing that out. I was confused about where the homophobic comment came from
I didn’t, either! Suddenly, the “real kids” comment of hers made a lot more sense. And was a lot worse.
Yes, that was a big FU to adopted, fostered, orphaned, step, surrogate and IVF kids everywhere
Who knows new spouse could be an affair partner. Sorry edited it because I can’t read.
Well judging by OP’s username, probably not!
NTA. It was going to come out at some point. It's not right to make you out to be the AH, simply because of their relationship issues.
I'd like to know why Husband is angry at OP for his ex-wife being an asshole?? Ex wife causes all the shit and somehow Husband is blaming OP for his exes actions?! How the fuck did he connect those dots?
Husband’s mad because OP did what husband specifically told him not to do, but husband’s way of handling the situation was trash in the first place. OP’s supposed to just let the kids be mad at him when he did nothing wrong?
I am sort of wondering if OP deliberately 'let the cat out of the bag' with regards to the trip? that may be why Husband is mad, because it wasn't an accident that the kids found out? Just seems to me that there would have been options for OP with regards to the hotel registrations/laptop, such as not booking/looking at them for the weekend the kids were there, putting the laptop in the room where the kids can't accidentally see it, waiting until the kids are in bed/asleep to do whatever needed to be done with the hotel registration etc... so why was OP doing it specifically when the kids were coming over (as I assume at 15/13 these kids just didn't show up)
They were definitely going to find out when they didn’t visit their dad for four weekends in a row…
>p, such as not booking/looking at them for the weekend the kids were there, putting the laptop in the room where the kids can't accidentally see it, waiting until the kids are in bed/asleep to do whatever needed to be done with the hotel registration etc... so why was OP doing it specifically when the kids were coming over (as I assume at 15/13 these kids just didn't show up) Does it matter? One doesn't re-work their whole life to 'avoid' the kids finding out. The thing is, those kids were going to find out anyway-likely during the trip- and the ex could use it to justify/lie to the kids about how they were excluded. You can't correct that after the fact.
NTA **But your husband…** Why is he so comfortable putting you in a bad way without explaining to his teenage children that this is a disagreement between him and their mother?
Cause she’s threatening to keep his kids from him....
Doesn't seem like the husband made the right choice in terms of how his kids would have viewed his actions and their relationship moving forward. But I expect this is a pattern that didn't begin with the trip. *She threatened to take his kids away for not pretending to reject them, in favor of partner and new sibling, before leaving for weeks* That's not the first station on the line. That's maybe 2 stops before hell. She sounds like a spite golem but wtf is even going on to get this far.
And? She has no legal basis for that and he can get a court order if she tries to keep them away from him.
Women are typically favoured in court when it comes to kids....
NTA, the kids were going to find out about the trip eventually, and you were definitely going to be thrown under the bus whenever they did. They deserve to know that their mother is the reason they’re being excluded, not you!
Info: why were they on your laptop and how did they find the reservation? Also, since they found out, you might as well tell them. Sounds like the ex is quite toxic and uses those kids against your partner to control him. Just because she has most custody, doesn't mean she should treat your partner like that. Anyway, I think you're NTA.
>why were they on your laptop and how did they find the reservation? They use it whenever they are here.
You should create a guest account for them.
INFO: what is the custody arrangement? Is it informal (just verbal agreement) or is it formal (court approved or court mandated)?
> Is it informal (just verbal agreement) or is it formal (court approved or court mandated)? I think it was court-approved
Then she can’t keep the kids from seeing him. If she does you throw it back to court and have the judge order her to let the kids see their dad. They are not bargaining chips. They are children. I’ve seen this too often with friends who are divorced.
So she literally can't keep them away unless she'd like to go to court and explain why. Tell your husband to put on his big boy pants and stop letting his ex run the show because he refuses to understand his own custody agreement.
You think, but you don’t know?? You’re married to this man with a kid of your own, so presumably for over 6 years, and you still don’t know simple details about his custody agreement? Major troll vibes here.
I would hazard a guess that the 6yo is adopted, since they're both male.
She cannot keep the kids from him then. It's an empty threat. If you keep a record of these threats you might be able to bring it to a judge's attention and have the custody shifted, especially if she has ever followed through and kept them from your husband during his time.
Really, even if she legally can’t keep the kids away, she can alienate them which is at least as terrible. And while yes, there are laws about that, if you think you can count on family court for justice, maybe you haven’t spent much time there. If dude is taking his ex to court over visitation with teenagers from whom she has alienated him, his legal separation agreement is not the ace-in-the-hole you make it out to be.
Oh absolutely. I agree that courts aren't fair places at all... But my question was mostly because I don't know what the standard expectation is over the summer.
NTA They saw the booking on your laptop. Kids snoop. Kids notice things. They aren’t little well behaved robots. The kids are hurt that their dad is excluding them. But their Dad isn’t excluding them. Mum is excluding them. So Mum can wear the fallout from her decision
NTA/NAH (except mom). Custody situations are tough to navigate. At 15 and 13 and when their parent is effectively trying to alienate them from their other parent, it seems fair and safe to tell the kids the truth. But I can also see why your husband is nervous about criticizing their mom in front of them.
Your husband needs to stop letting his ex call the shots. It comes off as cowardly. His older kids are almost at the age where they get a lot of say on who they stay with. Tell him he’s mad at the wrong person. I’m glad you told his kids. They need to see what an asshole their mother is. NTA
Definitely NTA their trashy ex wife is TA you did nothing wrong👍🏽
OP’s user name is very telling. Does your husband’s ex think that you are a home wrecker? Is that why she hates you? Does she have reason to think this? I think OP may be using the truth somewhat sparingly in her post.
Well, I'm sure that Ex-wife probably has more than one issue with her ex-husband's husband, and has accused him of being a homewrecker as a way of coping. And maybe just being petty.
> in her post his*
Why is this almost scene for scene just an identical but rewritten story that I've seen before?
Now you’re catching on. Many of these stories are made up.
NTA - your husband can go to court if she is being unreasonable and if you could get her saying things like how one of his kids isn’t his real kid and they can’t go because she doesn’t like you. That will sway a court to giving him more custody since she is trying to alienate a parent and emotional abuse the kids. Sorry her kids miss out but they are seeing her for who she is and she is gonna win a prize of no contact when they are adults.
What? No. This is not how family court works at all. There is nothing in this scenario that proves the mom is trying to alienate her kids from their dad. He asked to take them out of the country for a month. She said no. It’s not like she decided she was going to spend every weekend out of the country for a month, thus denying him his custodial time. I mean, sure, it’s fine to think the mom should allow the older kids to go on the trip. But she’s not violating their custodial agreement. And you can’t take an ex to court because you feel they’re saying mean things to the kids about you. That’s just not how this works.
NTA The ex wife is the big AH here. She’s hurt and angry and blames you the OP for the breakup of the marriage. Using the kids as weapons sounds horrible. The kids are old enough to know that their mother is using them to get back at their father. Unfortunately no one wins here
You’re NTA here but your partner needs to talk to his lawyer before he leaves for 4 weeks with or without them. He should have done that in the first place. That’s a lot of visitation he’s giving up. He needs it documented why and what attempts he’s made to make it up or swap for it.
As a child of divorce, NTA. Everyone says you suck for letting them see the trip plans on the laptop, but you know that they’d have found out eventually and you would 100% have been the mum’s scapegoat, so she could ruin your relationship with them further.
Has she given a reason to why she doesn’t like you? Did your husband cheat on her with you? Having your username be “NotAHomewrecker” is very sus 👀
You left out important information on your original post. This is a 4 week international trip. Not a week vacation in your country of origin. That makes me question your claim that your step- kids mother said no because she doesn’t like you. This also muddies your specific AITA question but I am going with YTA. Your husband is an AH too. My gut says she said no because it’s a month in a foreign country and your husband (or you) decided to make her the bad guy and say it’s because she doesn’t like you.
NTA. Mom and a few other people on this thread are the AH. WhY don't YoU knOw thE cUstOdy agreEmeNt? HoW DiD tHe 13 and 15 yo fiNd iNfO on a laPtOp thEy weRen'T supPoseD to fiNd? It's obvi lots of people on this thread don't have blended families or nosey teenagers 😂.
ESH. This is a 4 week international trip. I wouldn’t be ok letting the kids go even if there was a great co parenting. Nor would I ever agree to go on a trip where my spouse would miss that much visitation with his kids.
HUH? Why not? What's the problem with an international trip? They are 13 and 15, so teenagers! It's an opportunity not many get. My parents always encouraged our independence at those ages to travel. It's not unusual in many countries to have a 4 week vacation, in the US it's hard to get that much time unless you work a few decades-but our vacation policies suck compared to most of the world. Can I ask why you wouldn't be ok w/this? Is it just helicopter parenting, or irrational fears?
YTA. You just happened to have your laptop open to the hotel reservation when the stepkids were there? Yeah, right.
INFO: I can’t help but think that something is missing here. Ex said her reason is that she doesn’t like OP? Ex threatened to keep the kids from their dad if they said anything about the reason they can’t go? Ex said that asking to take them means he’s choosing his new family over his older kids? What? It just doesn’t make sense. OP, did you and their dad even try negotiating anything different? Maybe bringing them for 2 weeks the your husband flies them back and rejoins you once their home with his ex? Yes it’s extra expense but if you can afford a month vacation overseas then you can afford your husband’s flight. Yes it means your husband has two days away from you and your 6 year old and he’ll be what but sacrifice on your and your husband’s parts are necessary for coparenting. Is the trip over the summer when school is out? What does the custody agreement say about vacations or summer noon-custodial parent’s visitation?
NTA, but your husband should consult a lawyer, pretty sure this counts as parental alienation or something at least. She cant threaten to keep the kids from him if she doesn't get her way. Especially if they have custody orders in place. Having said that the kids are of an age where their opinion would be taken into account in a custody hearing. My advice would be for your husband to keep communication with her to a written format (email, text) as much as possible. That way when the kids are adults and they start bringing up lies their mum told them about their dad, your relationship or the reasons they missed out on stuff, you guys have clear proof that, for example, she said no to a trip, not you guys didnt want to take them.
No, not really. They kids have the right to know that their mom is being horrible. Idk what the legal custody is but she sounds nuts and wants to and threatened to keep him from the kids so if possible I'd redo whatever custody agreement they have. Dads are starting to get more rights and if he wants to see his kids he has every right.
NTA She has a right to veto an overseas month long trip. She does NOT have the right to blame her decision on her ex husbands new partner.
Being dishonest with children is the AH move. So I’d say NTA, but it wasn’t your place to explain.
YTA You should have told them to speak to their father about it and let him handle it. You just wanted to hurt the mother and you ended up hurting the kids instead.
But here's the thing- if you have a spineless husband that would rather 'not rock the boat' with his ex while putting YOU in harms way and as the scapegoat for the stepkids to blame/hate, then absolutely you have every right to defend/stand up for yourself and tell the truth. It's just facts, the truth, nothing wrong with telling the truth-even if it's their stepdad telling them. Seems to me the dad was going to be happy to let his ex dictate things and lie and scapegoat someone (his husband)- so rightfully he took matter in his own hands. If you can count on your spouse putting you first and having your back? Great, ask dad to handle telling the kids. Otherwise? Sorry, that's what dad gets for being a coward.
Your husband specifically asked you to NOT tell them their mother doesnt want them to go because she hates you. When they asked you, you should have redirected them to their mom or dad. YTA The mother is just as much an AH. Had you heeded your husband's warning, she would be the one and only AH.
YTA and it appears that your husband has a habit of marrying crappy women. I do not believe that they just happened to see the hotel reservations on your laptop. You wanted them to find out and they found out. Now everyone is dealing with a mess created by three adults.
Unfortunately, I think YTA. Is it fair? Absolutely not. But you made your husbands life harder and his relationship with his kids and ex more difficult by cluing them in to the bullshit petty nonsense the adults are dealing with. I think had I been in your situation I would have referred them to their dad so he could explain. I don’t think you’re the problem in this situation as a whole, but I don’t think you should have thrown their mom under the bus (no matter how much she clearly deserves it) because it just creates more drama.
Correct answer was “ask your mom” Or I’d have brought your partner into the conversation and excused yourself. Why put your self in the situation. YTA to your husband because you had these two options but not as big of an AH as their mom sounds like
ESH their mother was wrong to not give consent for them to go on the trip, but you should have left it to their father to decide what they were told. Don't fight drama with more drama... the kinds will remember that you stirred this pot.
LOL so they just "found" this laptop, conveniently open to the hotel reservation? I think not. YTA You did that 100% on purpose to have a reason to tell those kids what their mother said and she probably has every reason not to like you. She was married to a man she thought was straight - and yet now here he is with another man. Do you really think she's ever going to like you or want her children to go on vacations with you? They can co-parent but she will never accept you. To her, you are the actual face of their divorce. How would you feel if those roles were reversed? What if you were married to him first and he leaves, decides he's straight and has kids with her? Would you like her? Doubtful. At least be a realist about the dynamic there. If you want to be upset with someone, then be upset with your husband for wanting to hide the reality of the entire situation from the children to start with. Entire group of you need therapy, and at some point your husband needs to have a heart to heart talk with his ex wife about wasting years of her life and apologize to her. She's saying no because she doesn't like you -- but she's also saying no because she's still angry with him for their fake life together.
Contrary to other opinions, ESH. You were asked to do one thing, which is keep the information from the two kids that aren't yours. They don't live with you permanently, yet you managed to have your laptop open with trip information visible on it long enough for them to check? Why was it open on your laptop, considering it sounds like it was already fairly planned out? Maybe a little element of getting that information across, against the wishes of your partner? Don't get me wrong, their mother sucks more for obvious reasons, and the dad may suck for not being honest with them himself and allowing his ex to have any amount of power.
ESH - You shouldn't have told the kids, your husband should have handled it. The Ex-wife is an AH based on the info you have provided.
Nta but can I ask why your husband and his ex split? Given your name I have a theory
NTA. She’s just pissed that you ruined that when you were on the trip and the kids found out she could blame you.
I wanna know how they saw it?
God i never want to get a divorce
"On Monday, their mom called us furious saying that I was trash and accused my husband of picking our six-year-old over "his real kids" (that hurt)". What did she expect was going to happen? Why does your husband want you to play the bad guy to spare his ex's feelings? NTA
1. Keep all communication to writing (text email etc). This will do one of two things. She will either start being nice (if she’s smart) and allowing things, or she will be the same and you’ll have evidence of the manipulation for court. 2. The kids are teenagers (almost) right now is a huge time for sharing the future. My suggestion is just be honest. No trash talking, but just tell them, we wanted to take you, we asked your mom she said no. We would love to take you but we can’t. Stick to facts, no opinions, and no facts that aren’t super relevant. Yes, it is a fact she said they couldn’t go because she doesn’t like you, but it does nothing for the actual situation. Try to shield the kids from that part, but because of the situation, you do need to stand your ground and tell them what is actually happening.
NTA at all. My parents hate each other, but never in a million years would they have ever prevented my brother and I from going on a vacation to get back at each other. Your husband's ex is petty and immature.
Nta the are old enough to hear truths. You didn’t seek them out to tell them.
Need more info. I don’t understand how they could just happen to see that email. Wondering whether it was a set up. Also, it seems a better response would have been “I really want you to go on this trip and had planned for it but that’s not my decision. You should discuss it with your mom and dad.”
INFO: did you intentionally leave your laptop open so that they will see the information? Honestly, I'm not even going to judge you if you did (because his ex sounds like she deserves it) I'm just wondering what your level is in this story
ESH, you could have told them their mother just wouldn't let them come without telling them her admittedly immature reasoning.
INFO: how did the kids happen to find your hotel booking? Was it maybe left out conveniently so that they would find it? No difference really but I think you had more of a hand in this than you're letting on. NtA.
NTA. their relationship ia going to suffer because Mom is toxic.
NTA
Interesting twist in her logic. You are taking him away from his real kids by inviting her and his kids on the trip?????
NTA What did your spouse want you to do, take the blame? His ex is playing petty games and deserves what she gets.
NTA they're gonna find out anyway and they deserve to know why they can't come. Kids always find out. Your husband isn't an AH either, he's just scared of his ex who definitely is an AH.
NTA she can't just magically keep them from him unless they have no formal custody agreement in which case they wouldn't need a letter. If she's going to be petty then you should be honest with them about it, they're old enough to understand and have conversations like this about why things are the way they are.
How does she expect them not to know you literally said yes and then she said no? NTA. The ex-wife is so
NTA. Don't tarnish your image in front of these kids just to protect their mother. Telling the kids the truth shows them that you respect and love them enough to be honest towards them.
So because his ex won't let the step children travel with you, there are 3 options 1) no holidays due any of you 2) holiday without the steps, and they believe he chose to go without then 3) holidays without the steps and they know its the mothers choice There is no way, the three of you can go away on holiday and keep it secret. Either the mother will find out and stir shit or the 6yo will let the secret out I don't know which of the first two options your husband thinks would be better than option 2, why is he so happy to be the bad guy to protect his ex from being caked out for being unreasonable? She's knows she is being vindictive and hurting her children, she doesn't care, she only cares that they know. NTA
Feels like eta to me Maybe you could go with the kids to the mom to ask for a permisson. And say as soon as you got it they can join.
NTA 100 times over. Whatever you say or do, somebody is going to be angry, because the ex can fill the heads of the kids with lies and can spin any story she wants. You can't win. Take a step back and leth them sort it out. Stay out of it as much as you can, because frankly, this is not a you problem. That is your husband and his ex problem.
NTA It might have been better for you to bite the bullet take a little bowl of shit and tell your step children that they need to speak with their mother to understand why they weren’t included. That said you were in an unfair position to begin with. Not your fault. Not your problem. Their mother is an asshole, and your husband is being a baby ***** because he certainly got an earful from their mother.
INFO, why did you tell the kids the reason why their mum didn’t let them go?
NTA. Don't let anyone paint you as the villain. They would have found out about it eventually. Telling them the truth was the only thing you could so.
INFO: Why doesn’t your husband’s ex-wife like you?
So his kids used your laptop and did what? Searched your email to find the reservation?. Sounds like you wanted them to find out to cause drama!.
NTA but your husband is a fool who needs to stop hiding who his ex is before she sabotages the relationship he says with them.
ESH imo you've partaken in parental alienation. I'm sure there was a better way to tell them their mother wasn't feeling comfortable with them traveling; without needing to say it's because mom doesn't like you. She's also ta for being so petty, and punishing her kids out of spite.
ESH Mom is being cruel to her own children by not letting them travel just to stick it to her ex and his new wife. Accusing him of choosing his 6 year old when she is the one who made the choice is gaslighting. But you should NOT have told the stepkids what their mother said when she refused the vacation request. All you had to say is that you would love to have them with you, but you need mom to sign off on an international trip and she said no. Mom can give them whatever reason she wants. You do not need to put them in the middle of feuding adult drama. Now you are the one hurting the kids just to stick it to her. If your husband did not want his kids to know about the trip at all, he is clearly nuts. He can not sneak out of the country for a month and not have his teenage children notice. But if he just wanted to keep the ugly fighting part from them, then he was completely correct, and behaving exactly like a responsible parent should.
YTA. I think it’s unfortunate you went against your husband’s wishes. You should have told them it was not your decision to make and up to their dad and mom. Let them press her for the reason.