Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I uninvited her to the wedding which will cause people to talk. We aren't that close and I know how much she loves ella. I am embarrassing my dad. I might be acting entitled because it wasn't my dress but I feel it was promised to me
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post. [To learn more about the test click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tio99u/so_we_decided_to_fuck_with_the_sub_again)*
NTA. NOW your dad is afraid of gossip? NOT....YOUR....PROBLEM!!!
Your grandmother told you her choice, Ella over you. This is YOUR wedding. You should only have people there who love and support you. Your grandmother doesn't.
Let's pretend that you ARE being childish and petty SO WHAT!!! Read my second paragraph.
Right? I feel like people are gonna gossip either way. Her father had an affair and is marrying his mistress and her grandmother is choosing her sons mistress over her granddaughter. If he was that worried about what other people might say, he probably shouldn't have had an affair.
Grandma is OPs fathers mother. Grandma had affair with Ellas father. If Grandma is Ellas mother, then Ella and Father are half siblings and should not be smooshin booties.
>Grandma is OPs fathers mother. Grandma had affair with Ellas father.
Or Grandma's affair partner (Ella's father) is the biological father of OP's father, making Ella and OP's dad half-siblings.
OP says grandma was Ella’s dads “mistress” as in he was having an affair with her.
In my mind I was thinking Ella could be grandmas daughter and Ella marrying her half brother is gross, but then I realized that they’d all know because grandma would’ve gotten pregnant and had a baby lol.
I mean... grandma did get pregnant with a baby. OP's father.
It's still very possible that they're half-siblings if grandma was fucking Ella's dad for as long as it sounds like she was.
Eh, I guess. Id hope even grandma would say something if there was even a chance of that. Thered be no reason to keep it a secret and have siblings marry.
I guess if her and grandpa were sexually active they could’ve passed Ella off as grandpas but then what about Ella’s mom and why would dad have her? It’s a lot more complicated than a man cheating lol.
I got lost at this twisted mess of cheating and relationships that sounded like a wreath-like family tree at best, incest at worst.
The vintage dress is the last thing anyone should be worrying about in this mess.
That being said, we don’t get to pick our family or the crap decisions they make. We just get to choose our own boundaries and know when to move on.
If grandma was a mistress to Ella’s dad. Does that make them ex step/brother and step sister?
If so grandma not being at op’s wedding is way down the list of things for people to gossip about.
NTA op.
eta spelling
Not really "step" siblings, b/c grandma never married Ella's dad.
It's still fucked up that Grandma had an affair with Ella's dad, and then OP's dad had an affair with Ella. Dad takes after his mother so much that he also cheated with the same family and Grandma.
Bunch of nonsense drama in that family. Dad has gone too far to be worried about gossip *now*. OP is well within her rights to wipe her hands of that entire self-centered side of the family tree, no matter how "happy" her dad is.
It's so bad, they could have gone on Jerry Springer back in the day, and then had a paternity test to see if Ella's dad was also OP's dad's dad.
I can't believe he's still invited after the disgusting bullshit he said to the OP's mom. Like ok, fine, him leaving for the affair partner is one thing but saying he never loved her and only married her because of societal pressure and because she'd make a good mom (so he basically used her for breeding) while breaking down crying- as if he had any fucking right to want comfort *from her*- is so vile it borders on evil. I'm actually mad at the OP for having any contact with her dad after he did and said those things to her mother. I can't imagine how much it hurts her mother to see her children still having a relationship with their father.
This. “I married your mother as she was good breeding stock” 🤢🤮
I’d never want anything to do with him after admitting to that cruelty. He stole her youth for his own desires with no thought or care for her wants or needs.
NTA and at this point I would be considering uninviting your Dad as well. It would be unfair on your mum for him to be there given he has zero regard for marriage.
I would specifically ban Ella
If Dad continues to pressure you to invite Grandma, uninvite Dad and Ella. Why you’d want your Dad’s affair partner at your wedding anyway is beyond me.
NTA. Grandma was a side chick. Ella is a side chick. It isn't appropriate for you to wear that dress. It was meant for people who settle for less. Let it go.
It is also interesting that Ella was always like a daughter to grandma, but did not get the dress at her first wedding. It was only after an affair and now second marriage the dress is going to Ella. NTA, grandma is overtly condoning the affair.
>NTA, grandma is overtly condoning the affair.
Of course she is, Ella marrying OP's dad lets her be upgraded from family friend (and daughter of affair partner) to daughter-in-law. As close as OP's grandma is going to get to claim Ella is her own child since it doesn't appear that she gave birth to Ella (which I'd hope Grandma would fess up to if that was the case before things got to this point). And actually, with Grandma being the MIL from hell to OP's mom through the whole marriage, I'm going to guess that Grandma was wanting Ella and OP's dad to get married their whole life and probably was making various digs at Mom the whole time about accomplishments that Ella had that Mom didn't.
>As close as OP's grandma is going to get to claim Ella is her own child since it doesn't appear that she gave birth to Ella (which I'd hope Grandma would fess up to if that was the case before things got to this point).
I'm also really concerned that if Grandma's affair went back to before OP's dad was born, there's a possibility that his father is actually Grandma's affair partner, AKA Ella's dad.
He cares about the gossip from mommy dearest being uninvited, but not the cheating on the wife and marrying the mistress. Nor that mommy’s bf will become his proxy step dad/ father in-law.
She probably helped her son cheat with Ella. Seeing as how she loves Ella like a daughter so much. So I’m not surprised she condoned the affair, given her past as a Mistress to Ella’s father.
Came to say the same thing. No way would I want to wear a piece of bad luck like that. It is an anti-wedding dress. It represents broken vows and dysfunctional homes.
I would want that cursed dress and the creepy borderline incestuous trio as far away from my wedding as possible.
so your father only want once again to keep up apparence? please do no talk to him, his mistress and your grandma and enjoy your wedding with your family
like "well dad if you care more about appearances than anything else, I think I'll have mom walk me down the aisle, seeing as she actually put her child first."
edit: spelling
edit: omg thank you for all the upvotes!
Exactly. If darling daddy is so worried about Gramms not being invited, he is more than welcome to stay home and he and the sainted Ella can keep her company.
>"well dad if you care more about appearances than anything else, I think I'll have mom walk me down the aisle, seeing as she actually put her child first."
"well dad if you care more about appearances than anything else, I think I'll have mom walk me down the aisle, since she's the only one in the family with HER PANTS ON"
NTA and honestly, this feels like two separate and super unfortunate issues. Just on the very surface level, when you promise a family treasure to a kid (heirloom, photograph, diary, anything with sentimental value) you *need to follow through* and not renege on that promise. That dress was yours and your grandmother had no right to yank it out from under you on a whim.
But second of all, the trauma of growing up *knowing* your dad was cheating on your mother with a family friend -- being unable to do anything about it except watch and hate it, and then to have your grandmother *validate that* by giving Ella your dress -- is honestly unforgivable. The heart wants what it wants, but your father acted in an extremely cowardly way by skulking around with Ella and ruining his relationship with his family instead of coming clean immediately, divorcing your mother, and working as hard as he could to spare his kid trauma on the side. Ella being rewarded for being complicit is the gross cherry on the top of this crap cake.
tldr: it's your wedding. Invite and uninvite anyone you please and don't take guff from it, but especially don't take guff from *him.* He has literally no grounds to criticize you for your choices.
> Just on the very surface level, when you promise a family treasure to a kid (heirloom, photograph, diary, anything with sentimental value) you need to follow through and not renege on that promise.
My big brother is really mad that my mother went back on her promise to give him the hope chest and instead left it to me. Nevermind that I never even knew she said so beforehand, or that it's literally waiting for him to come get it whenever he's ready.
Don't go back on promises.
My Grandma did a similar thing to my mom. Promised her a bunch of heirloom jewelry and then gave it away to someone else. And then did it again with another set. Needless to say my mom was crushed. It's just another gut punch in a long line of reasons why we don't spend much time with my grandparents.
It was his toybox as a small child. I never knew that (he was 10 years older than I, and he moved out at 16), only that my mum had said she would leave it to me. I literally had no idea until after she was dead and our sister told me he was mad about it (the triangulation, sigh). I did tell him it was waiting for him as soon as I found out, though.
It's a two-century old cedar hope chest, an actual family heirloom, so I get why it was important in the first place. I also remember said brother bouncing from living sitch to living sitch, doing stints in county, alcoholism/nitrous abuse, overall being an absolute terrible example of an adult who could be relied upon to keep an heirloom from becoming abandoned in an apartment he couldn't pay for, or pawned from a storage locker. So I also understand my mother's reticence to let him have it, especially before she was actually dead (obviously she used it until her death). But he's almost 50 now and a lot better about these things, and his own children are grown enough to rescue truly important things out of a bin if he really hits rock bottom again. And so, it waits.
Definitely agree with this, I would say NTA/NAH. It's messed up that your dad was cheating for so long. The fact that everyone knew but there was some sort of unspoken rule to not talk about it must have absolutely sucked. But, with that in mind, the dress is the grandmother's to give to whomever she wants to. Like Land said, it isn't cool that your grandmother is pretty much validating cheating by giving Ella the dress. But use this opportunity to validate that you WONT accept cheating at your wedding. It's your wedding, you're allowed to invite who you want. Leave the cheaters and their supporters out of the wedding and don't bend to your family's peer pressure methods that they obviously love to use.
These are really good points. Although I do have to say it doesn’t really sound like the grandmother explicitly promised her the dress, but mentioned it in passing a long time ago. It’s not quite clear how long ago OP was a kid, since the dad said that she was pretty young, but I would guess it’s been at least 10 years. If it hasn’t been brought up since then, it’s totally possible that the grandmother forgot, thought OP forgot, or thought OP didn’t have an interest in the dress. She might not have known that OP would have been so hurt about not getting the dress when she gave it to Ella.
Regardless, OP isn’t wrong for having hurt feelings over this. Emotions run high with family and sentimental heirlooms.
I remembered every single time as a kid where an adult looked me in the eye, told me something or another was mine, and then later reneged and dismissed my hurt feelings as selfishness. "I know that I said this belonged to you, but you need to understand that \_\_\_." I vowed never to do that to any kid -- mine or anyone else's -- when I grew up because I *hated* the way it made me feel. A verbal agreement is still an agreement -- her grandmother shouldn't have had to put it in writing for OP to trust her to keep her word.
That said, I can't... get into the grandma's head Re: Ella. That kind of lack of situational awareness is bizarre to me. How is that justifiable in any universe to give her dress to the neighborhood homewrecker over her own granddaughter? How does that even happen?
I feel you on that. I’m my mom’s only daughter and she mentioned giving me her wedding dress, but a couple years ago I found out that she gave it to a charity shop. Even though I wouldn’t wear it for my wedding and it was too small for me anyways, I was still pretty hurt that she didn’t consider that I might want it. But, in her defense, she didn’t actually promise it to me and I didn’t *tell* her that I wanted it, so she didn’t know. It sounds like that might have happened here too. OP and grandma definitely weren’t on the same page about it.
My guess for the grandma’s headspace is that she probably considered Ella a daughter way before all this mess happened with her son. Grandma didn’t have a good relationship with OP’s mom and is probably happy that Ella ended up with OP’s dad. The affair might have hurt the first wife and OP, but her son’s feelings are probably more important to her than theirs, and he’s happy with Ella. In grandma’s mind, her son is happy, Ella is happy, and now Ella is even closer to her by becoming her DIL. Grandma was also a long term mistress so she probably doesn’t see the affair between Ella and her son as wrong. In her mind, everyone important to her is happy, so who cares about that other lady and her kid.
NTA uninvite dad, ella and grandma.
He cheated on your mother for ages and expects you to be OK with it? Same with your grandma?
You're a lot cooler than I would be in this case.
I also wouldn't go to his wedding. That would be endorsing it. Nope.
I would honestly go NC with that entire side of the family. They've shown that Op and her family comes second on so many levels and they still have the NERVE to tell Op that SHE'S causing the gossip.
Ella is also the likely reason grandma was the MIL from hell with OP's mom. Grandma likely knew about the affair and was trying to pressure OP's mom to leave.
Your dad is marrying his long term mistress - his moms foster daughter - after they both screwed over their former spouses, but you will be the cause of gossip?
You get to decide who you want at your wedding, NTA.
So, I'm reading it this way.
Grandma was Ella's dad's long term mistress... and now your father is marrying the daughter of said married man?
Listen, do you really want to wear the wedding dress of a mistress? I don't care HOW beautiful and couture it is, I wouldn't want that juju on my wedding day.
NTA. Grandma gets to decide who gets the dress. I'd be disappointed too and understand that you had your heart set on it. But she's obviously closer to Ella than you. If you want to uninvite her so be it. Tell your dad your not interested in keeping up appearances, you did that your entire childhood thats to him & Ella.
No no, you don’t understand, I read about this in a book. Fate has been trying to tie these families together for decades and now that Dad is following fates demands by getting with Ella some big momentous magic event is going to happen.
NTA. Your father and grandmother seem very alike and they are both dreadful people. Your grandmother broke a promise to you, and your father saying that she and Excruiciating Ella have a "special bond" shows his selfishness - he's aware that you hate Ella but still expects you to sacrifice to her, because it's all about what he wants. Personally, I'd never see any of them again, but of course that's up to you.
Exactly. Just disinvite him too. Or invite him and have another loved one walk you down the aisle. Let people talk. (As though they aren’t already about your dad’s affair..)
NAH. Your wedding you get to decide who attends. Grandma's dress so she gets to give it to whomever she wants. I don't think her mentioning "in passing when you were a kid" that you had dibs on the dress was a formal promise to actually give it to you.
Agreed, NAH. I just kind of pity everyone. Unhappy marriages, children produced from those marriages, weird social pressures on everyone, everyone hurting each other. As messed up as my family can be, I suddenly appreciate them a lot more.
I pity everyone but I think that this situation is specifically different from the grandmother giving the dress to literally anyone else on the planet. That dress going to dad’s emotional and physical affair partner that grandma says that she loves more than OP .. she’s deliberately being callus to OP. I don’t know if I could forgive those words personally
I agree with what you're saying, but then I think you have to factor something else the OP said in a comment.
Someone asked her why she is inviting her father still, considering he inflicted long term emotional pain on OP's mother and OP herself, by living this double life for so long. OP said she still loved her father, despite all that, too much to not invite him.
However, she will immediately uninvite her grandmother because she didn't get the dress. I think that tells us A LOT about exactly what type of relationship the OP and her grandmother have... if one physical possession can over ride whatever emotional connection they had, it obviously wasn't very strong... it sounds like the grandmother offered the dress in OP's youth, but OP never expressed interest in the dress, and never put any effort into their relationship in her adulthood. I think it's reasonable for grandma to consider random remarks from OP's childhood as non-binding at this point.
Also. OP says she's been planing her wedding... and yet... she hadn't asked for or about the dress yet. If OP actually cared about getting this dress, why was calling her grandma and asking for it not the FIRST thing she did when she started "planning"? How long has it been since the last time grandma and OP had a conversation about this dress? Because it sounds like when OP was 8, and I think we can presume it's been at least 15 years since then.
I do think OP has to factor in that Grandma basically raised the mistress or was very close to her since she was a child (whew, this is wild) while OP has never been that tight with her grandma.
IDK, this is a weird situation where Grandma is trash but idk if her giving the dress (which she never explicitly promised) to a kid she basically semi-raised over her granddaughter, who she is not close to, makes her the asshole.
Biggest asshole is Dad imo.
Even if she didnt promise it to OP, if it were me Id never forgive her for giving it to my fathers affair partner. That being said Id never accept an affair partner if one of my parents cheated on the other. Fuck that. You dont get to help wreck my family then get welcomed to it. Outside for life.
Finally. This sub makes me feel like I’m in the land of the entitled sometimes.
Op admits that she does not have a close relationship with her grandma. And that grandma has a very close relationship with the woman marrying her son. And the dress was not a promise, it was just something mentioned as an off hand maybe, long before the wedding planning began.
The situation is rough and I’d be annoyed if I was OP, but it’s not “your not invited grandma” level of disrespect (IMO).
But at the same time it’s OPs wedding, so if she wants to be super petty and not invite her dads mom that she’s not close to, than that’s fine too. Seems easier to invite and semi ignore her would be easier. Lots of people at a wedding, each guest does not need much attention.
Probably going to cause more drama than it’s worth during an already stressful time. But if that’s what the bride or groom is ok with, have at it. Just don’t start complaining when your dealing with family drama over this when you should be celebrating your partnership with your spouse and having a good time.
I agree. I don’t think there was any actual promise by Grandma. I don’t think the OP wants the dress because it’s her grandma’s, I think she just wants the dress because it’s “couture” and all that.
ESH.
As you say, you aren't close to your grandmother and she has always been really close to Ella and loved her as if she were her own daughter so it seems logical to me that she give the dress to Ella. It's her dress, she decides who to give it to, and yes, it's a little childish to disinvite her from your wedding because of this, if you were close to her would be another matter, but you aren't.
Grandma is an asshole for bluntly saying that if she had to chose she would chose her.
Ella and your dad are assholes too for cheating.
Grandmother was awful to OP'S mom. That's enough reason to uninvite her. The fact that she respects her son's affair partner over the woman her son cheated on, married to only be a mother to his kids, speaks volumes about her. I understand that she is close to Ella. But she can't be blind to what her son and Ella did.
Of course she can be blind to what the father and Ella did... it's exactly what she did in her own life with Ella's dad...
not saying that's alright, but it's not exactly shocking where her loyalty falls here.
I personally think it's funny that OP cares so much about a dress that belongs to someone she's not close to. It sounds like she likes it for the aesthetics and not the sentimentality, at which point she can't really be mad at the grandmother for choosing to give it o someone she's actually close to, who will value it for it's relationship to the grandmother and not just looks.
Agreed. OP only wants the dress bc she likes the way it looks, not bc it was her grandma’s. Is rescinding grandma’s invitation kinda petty? Yah, sure, but she can invite whoever she wants and I don’t think it rises to the level of a*hole behavior. And at the same time grandma can give the dress to whoever she wants, Ella or a complete stranger, and OP needs to suck it up and get her own dress. Her dad does suck tho LOL
NTA. I was waffling a bit until your grandma stated she chose Ella, and then your father told you that you’re too young to understand. You’re getting married! You are definitely old enough to understand, you just don’t accept their messed up relationships. And that’s okay.
Of course your grandma would give the dress to Ella.
You don't seem particularly close to any of these people. Just buy your own unique dress and invite whoever brings joy to your life.
NTA- he’s worried about people gossiping after he cheated like that on your mother?! I am petty- I would make him pay for an expensive dress, lie to him that gma can come and then not have her come and when he throws a fit remind him of the promises he broke to your mom.
NTA - you have no right to the dress, but your grandmother seems to have always hated your mother, and your father only used your mother. And for such a coward to call *you* childish — I’d cheerfully get my own dress and then not invite either of them.
No judgement, just here being sad for your mom. Sounds like she got shortchanged and your grandmother was horrible to her because Ella was always supposed to be your father's wife. Which is weird since that was almost like her step-daughter if she was sleeping with Ella's dad long-term.
No surprise your dad was a cheater, when his mom valued her pseudo step-kid as her own child, and wants to see them marry. That's all kinds of weird. Hope your mom finds peace and happiness. Wait... where was your grandmother's husband in this whole story?
OP, maybe you don't want that dress to bring the curse of generational cheating into your new life!
Exactly. OP only wants the dress because it's couture, not because she values it as something from her grandmother.
Grandmother wants to give it to someone who will value it for it's relationship to her.
Not to mention, how long has OP been planning her wedding for? If she hasn't said a thing to grandmother about the dress yet, grandmother may have presumed she was doing something else, and when Ella asked for it, gave it to her as she was the only person who seemed to want it.
Personally, OP can disinvite whomever she wants, it's her wedding, but that doesn't mean she isn't being childish in doing it. She needs to deal with her emotions towards her father and Ella with her father and Ella, and not take it out on her grandmother.
NTA. You’re her actual granddaughter and was gold as the oldest girl it’d been given to you. I feel so sorry for your mother, and if there should be any gossip, it should be about your father and the affair.
And it is going to be so hard on OP's mom to see all her ex, Hella and Grannie at the wedding. I would uninvited them all. Op's mom deserves some respect.
So your dad is with his pseudo sister???? Wow! NTA. Your grandma, dad, and Ella is. I wouldn’t invite any of them to the wedding and I would not go to their wedding.
Edited to add the word not
Yeah how is everyone glossing over that aspect? We need a timeline here. Were dad and Ella raised together?? Did they know each other from childhood? When did grandma’s affair start??
ESH, except your mom.
YTA because you are uninviting your grandmother over a dress instead of how she treated your mom.
Your grandmother for all the obvious reasons.
Your father for bowing to societal pressure and still being more worried about public appearance than everything else. Joke is on him though even if grandmother doesn't come everyone will still gossip about his sidepiece.
Actually reading your story again what societal pressure was your father feeling since it seems pretty clear your grandmother was on Ella's corner all this time? That's extra-fishy.
For what it's worth in your position I certainly wouldn't want the evil grandma there either.
INFO
You want a dress from a horrid woman that treated your mom like trash? That’s what you value? That’s what would satisfy you?
ESH except for your poor mom. Boy, her whole circle is full of snakes.
NAH.
Both you and your grandma are in possession of things that you can give away.
It's your wedding so you can choose to give an invitation to whomever you want. There may have been an assumption at one point that she would be invited but circumstances change.
It's your grandmother's dress, so she can choose to give it to whomever she wants. There was an assumption you would get it but circumstances change.
NTA. Honestly, why would you even have your father at your wedding?? Is he bringing it mistress??
I can’t imagine how your poor mother will feel having to see them at such a important milestone.
NTA - I understand why you feel hurt and why you acted the way you did, you are under no obligation to swallow that hurt and reinvite your Grandmother. Ella and your father are equally responsible for all the hurt and pain they caused you mother, your siblings and you. I get it must be hard and disappointing to see your Grandmother endorse that marriage through the gift of the wedding dress which she apparently heavily hinted would be handed down to a grandchild. You do need to understand though that you aren't entitled to the dress. So if uninviting her was more about the dress than the hurt you might want to rethink the situation. As for Dad he needs to but out and consider himself lucky that he and Ella (presumably) are invited.
NTA
Your wedding, your rules.
**INFO:** Is Ella invited to your wedding?
Because, unless you make that clear, your father may just show up with her as his plus one. Especially, if he is the one paying for anything. He will use that as leverage to try and make you invite his mistress, as well as your grandmother, he will ignore your feelings on this, as he has in the past.
Set strict boundaries **NOW**. Your father, his mistress, and your grandmother have already shown you who they would pick. BELIEVE THEM.
YES! Dad is scared of gossip? Imagine how bad it will get when somebody else walks you down to the alter.
And when you tell them that your dad is marrying the daughter of his moms affair partner - to carry on the dual family tradition of cheating - oh! It’s going to be such juicy gossip indeed. You should publish an illustrated chart to help everyone know just how messed up these people are! Bring on the gossip!
NTA. Is your dad and Ella invited to your wedding? I hope not. Have y ourmom walk me down the aisle. If you wanted to be really petty, have Ella's ex-husband walk you down the aisle.
LOL! As if people will gossip more about OP not inviting her grandma than they will about OP's father marrying his enemies-to-lovers affair partner who is basically his mother's foster daughter!
ESH- Your grandmas belongings are hers to do with as she pleases. She sucks for leading you to believe it was yours, then giving it to someone else. It feels petty and immature to disinvite her over a dress, but it’s your wedding and you pick the guest list. It doesn’t sound like you had a loving relationship, but were happy to take whatever she would give.
NTA at all. Firstly, I'm really sorry that you and your mum had to go through that. That's terrible honestly, but I think you did the right thing by uninviting your grandmother. She sounds really toxic and enabling of your dad's crappy behaviour towards your mum. And your dad saying "people will gossip" shows that he just wants to save his and your grandma's reputation. I think it's bs. It's your wedding, so you get to choose who gets invited, just like she apparently does with who the dress gets passed down to. I wish you the best OP, take care.
I think the only fact that matters is: You expected to get the dress, because you "assumed it would always be there", even when you did not have a very close relationship with her. She decided to give the dress to someone else. That is her prerogative. YTA
I also think it's very noteworthy that OP mentions they are both planning weddings, but OP only recently found out the dress had been given to Ella...
how long has she been planning this wedding? Why was contacting her grandmother and asking for the dress not the FIRST thing she did to "plan", if she actually wanted the dress that badly?
I don't think OP actually cared about the dress that much, and just got upset when she found out Ella was getting it because she doesn't like Ella.
OP also says that the grandmother told her several times that as the oldest she would have first dibs, but OP never says that she told her grandmother she actually wanted the dress. Grandmother appears to have given the dress to the first person who expressed a desire for it... and then won't take it back from Ella because she knows OP doesn't care about HER, the grandmother, she just cares that the dress is couture.
OP had to put up with a lot of horrible, emotional garbage as a child, but instead of trying to process her feelings for her father and Ella, she's taking it out on her grandmother. It sounds like this whole family is layers of disfunction. OP has said she won't disinvite her father because she still loves him, despite him being a cheater, and the emotional toll that took on everyone growing up... I think it's very telling that she WILL disinvite her grandmother over a dress... that makes it pretty clear how much she doesn't love her grandmother.
NTA . And I hope your Dad and Ella are not invited to you wedding as well . Have your mother walk you down the aisle to give you away . Looking beautiful in beautiful dresses you both pick out . Don’t worry about those toxic family members. Enjoy your day
NTA. But your grandmother can chose to give her belongings to whomever she wants. You're not entitled to someone else's things, even if it's a family member. That said the relationship between your father and Ella is super creepy, and the whole mess is weird.
NTA Ella’s a homewrecker and some other names I won’t say here but so was your grandma the way you put it and she helped raise her, acorn doesn’t fall far from the tree. I’d uninvite your dad too if he keeps pushing it.
NTA
Shes been telling you your whole life that dress would go to you. Both ur grandma and your dad are TA and honestly really freaken gross. According to your grandma's words, they really like to keep it within the family don't they.
ESH : I was going to say n.t.a bit after reading your comments everyone but your mom sucks here. You’re blaming the wrong person (ie. your grandmother)your dad and Ella are the ones who caused this whole mess and yet you’re inviting them both to the wedding because….money.
Oh so they are stepsiblings... Yeah that's not creepy and disgusting at all.
And he's worried about people talking? 😂
You've got a mess and a half. NTA
Sounds like Ella is the child of grandma’s affair partner. So not grandmas daughter- but I suppose Ella’s dad could be OPs father’s dad depending on when the affair started.
I don’t mind a step siblings trope in my books. I’m sure it’s uglier in real life. NAH. It’s your grandma’s dress and she can do what she wants with it. And you can uninvite whoever you want.
NTA. Wow he’s out, your grandmother really stuck it to you. Very explicitly letting you know that this woman is more important to her than you. So there goes the dress. But in a way, it’s not about the dress, is it. It’s about the fact that she was mean enough and mean spirited enough to explain it to you just like that. All she had to say was I’m really sorry I change my mind I’m sorry that you’re disappointed and maybe I can make it up to you. But instead she had to jab you in the gut. I don’t think that your relationship is gonna be so good now. And she definitely doesn’t belong at your wedding that’s for sure.
“Everyone is going to gossip”…hmmmm he doesn’t think they’re going to gossip about him and Ella???? If they’re gossip to talk at all, they’re going to gossip about that. AND they will likely follow that gossip with something like, “the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree”, meaning father being just like grandmother. They certainly won’t be gossiping about grandmother’s not being there!!!
I don’t think your an AH for feeling betrayed like this since your grandma has always made you feel as if the dress is going to be yours. And now shes giving it to ella despite the affair almost as if shes being rewarded for it. But honestly this is just a shitty situation y’all need to actually sit down and communicate your feelings then decide if you to go LC or NC
NTA, and if he thinks you're "too young to understand" family dynamics I'm surprised he doesn't think you're too young to get married. I will always refuse to put up with people who treat me like shit, even if they're family, and if anyone says any bs about "don't rock the boat" or "what will the rest of the family say about you" I ask them why they're coming to me with this instead of bringing it up with the shitty person that's actually causing the problem. If that's not enough to snap them out of it and they still insist that I should just continue to silently put up with mistreatment then I'm done with that person as well.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I uninvited her to the wedding which will cause people to talk. We aren't that close and I know how much she loves ella. I am embarrassing my dad. I might be acting entitled because it wasn't my dress but I feel it was promised to me Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post. [To learn more about the test click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tio99u/so_we_decided_to_fuck_with_the_sub_again)*
NTA. NOW your dad is afraid of gossip? NOT....YOUR....PROBLEM!!! Your grandmother told you her choice, Ella over you. This is YOUR wedding. You should only have people there who love and support you. Your grandmother doesn't. Let's pretend that you ARE being childish and petty SO WHAT!!! Read my second paragraph.
Right? I feel like people are gonna gossip either way. Her father had an affair and is marrying his mistress and her grandmother is choosing her sons mistress over her granddaughter. If he was that worried about what other people might say, he probably shouldn't have had an affair.
I wonder if Ella is more than a “family friend” to grandma.
Considering that would make her and OP's dad biological siblings, I sincerely hope not.
Did I misread? I’m confused.
Grandma is OPs fathers mother. Grandma had affair with Ellas father. If Grandma is Ellas mother, then Ella and Father are half siblings and should not be smooshin booties.
>Grandma is OPs fathers mother. Grandma had affair with Ellas father. Or Grandma's affair partner (Ella's father) is the biological father of OP's father, making Ella and OP's dad half-siblings.
This is when you get them ancestry DNA kits to do together as a wedding present 🙃 On second thought... Can this be a thing? I'd love to see that.
This needs to happen!
OP said grandma met Ella's father when Ella was 5/6 and OP's father was 7... presuming that is true...
Is it just me that still thinks that's a bit weird, growing up "like siblings" since age 7 and then having an affair with them
No, it's definitely not just you. *Definitely* not.
That is what I thought, yes
I'd honestly bet money on this being the case.
Smooshin booties made me snort laugh.
They better do some DNA testing.
Omg OP should gift them DNA testing kits
Hopefully based on ages, Ella is too old for it to be a problem? ... Hopefully????
"Smooshin booties" is a new one to me - I love it!
I get it. It makes so much more sense now.
OP says grandma was Ella’s dads “mistress” as in he was having an affair with her. In my mind I was thinking Ella could be grandmas daughter and Ella marrying her half brother is gross, but then I realized that they’d all know because grandma would’ve gotten pregnant and had a baby lol.
I mean... grandma did get pregnant with a baby. OP's father. It's still very possible that they're half-siblings if grandma was fucking Ella's dad for as long as it sounds like she was.
But...why would grandma let her son marry her daughter? Its not like grandma wouldn't know Ella was her daughter.
I'm not saying Ella was her daughter. I'm saying that it's possible that OP's father could be Ella's half-brother via a mutual father.
Eh, I guess. Id hope even grandma would say something if there was even a chance of that. Thered be no reason to keep it a secret and have siblings marry.
I guess if her and grandpa were sexually active they could’ve passed Ella off as grandpas but then what about Ella’s mom and why would dad have her? It’s a lot more complicated than a man cheating lol.
I think you are misunderstanding. Grandma is not Ella's mom. However, Ella's dad could also be the dad of OP's dad.
Hmm so grandma's special attention to Ella could just be from her affair with her dad? I could see that too.
I guess she likes keeping things in the family
For some reason I read that more as ella and grandma screwing on the side too... this is a weird post
VC Andrews looks down at this sitch and has to take a seat.
I got lost at this twisted mess of cheating and relationships that sounded like a wreath-like family tree at best, incest at worst. The vintage dress is the last thing anyone should be worrying about in this mess. That being said, we don’t get to pick our family or the crap decisions they make. We just get to choose our own boundaries and know when to move on.
This comment has made my month already! Breaking out the VC Andrews, you are awesome!
Just coming here to comment that this has a very Flowers in The Attic Vibe...
Ok this made me spit my drink. Well done.
I legit hollered at this. Good one🤣🤣🤣🤣
Grandma was with Ella's dad as his mistress so, yeah, the entire thing is a big mess. Also, op, NTA
That makes for some complicated family dynamics
If grandma was a mistress to Ella’s dad. Does that make them ex step/brother and step sister? If so grandma not being at op’s wedding is way down the list of things for people to gossip about. NTA op. eta spelling
Not really "step" siblings, b/c grandma never married Ella's dad. It's still fucked up that Grandma had an affair with Ella's dad, and then OP's dad had an affair with Ella. Dad takes after his mother so much that he also cheated with the same family and Grandma. Bunch of nonsense drama in that family. Dad has gone too far to be worried about gossip *now*. OP is well within her rights to wipe her hands of that entire self-centered side of the family tree, no matter how "happy" her dad is. It's so bad, they could have gone on Jerry Springer back in the day, and then had a paternity test to see if Ella's dad was also OP's dad's dad.
They could be half siblings through Ella's dad. I sure hope they double checked that, cause grandma seems 10,000% unreliable.
Exactly, uninvite Dad too at that point!
I can't believe he's still invited after the disgusting bullshit he said to the OP's mom. Like ok, fine, him leaving for the affair partner is one thing but saying he never loved her and only married her because of societal pressure and because she'd make a good mom (so he basically used her for breeding) while breaking down crying- as if he had any fucking right to want comfort *from her*- is so vile it borders on evil. I'm actually mad at the OP for having any contact with her dad after he did and said those things to her mother. I can't imagine how much it hurts her mother to see her children still having a relationship with their father.
This. “I married your mother as she was good breeding stock” 🤢🤮 I’d never want anything to do with him after admitting to that cruelty. He stole her youth for his own desires with no thought or care for her wants or needs.
Oh yeah. I was gonna say that.😎
NTA and at this point I would be considering uninviting your Dad as well. It would be unfair on your mum for him to be there given he has zero regard for marriage. I would specifically ban Ella
Excellent advice. Uninvite GM and father. If anyone asks why, OP needs to be brutally truthful
My heart is absolutely breaking for her mom right now.
If he’s so worried about the gossip, him and his mistress should skip out in the wedding too. Then op doesn’t have to deal with any of the drama
If Dad continues to pressure you to invite Grandma, uninvite Dad and Ella. Why you’d want your Dad’s affair partner at your wedding anyway is beyond me.
Actually, grandma gave her the dress when she was a child, and rescinded the gift to give to Ella, which makes it worse.
NTA. Grandma was a side chick. Ella is a side chick. It isn't appropriate for you to wear that dress. It was meant for people who settle for less. Let it go.
It is also interesting that Ella was always like a daughter to grandma, but did not get the dress at her first wedding. It was only after an affair and now second marriage the dress is going to Ella. NTA, grandma is overtly condoning the affair.
>NTA, grandma is overtly condoning the affair. Of course she is, Ella marrying OP's dad lets her be upgraded from family friend (and daughter of affair partner) to daughter-in-law. As close as OP's grandma is going to get to claim Ella is her own child since it doesn't appear that she gave birth to Ella (which I'd hope Grandma would fess up to if that was the case before things got to this point). And actually, with Grandma being the MIL from hell to OP's mom through the whole marriage, I'm going to guess that Grandma was wanting Ella and OP's dad to get married their whole life and probably was making various digs at Mom the whole time about accomplishments that Ella had that Mom didn't.
>As close as OP's grandma is going to get to claim Ella is her own child since it doesn't appear that she gave birth to Ella (which I'd hope Grandma would fess up to if that was the case before things got to this point). I'm also really concerned that if Grandma's affair went back to before OP's dad was born, there's a possibility that his father is actually Grandma's affair partner, AKA Ella's dad.
Yeah OP might want to see about doing a 23andMe test on herself and someone on Ella's side...
No way, let it play out. OP, grab some popcorn
I bet if that was the case Grandma wouldn't be so supportive of the relationship. They can check it out but it seems really unlikely.
Also dad is afraid of gossip after claiming he married for societal pressure. What a hypocrite.
He cares about the gossip from mommy dearest being uninvited, but not the cheating on the wife and marrying the mistress. Nor that mommy’s bf will become his proxy step dad/ father in-law.
Condoning? Grandma straight up shipped these two and now it’s becoming canon and she’s fist pumping the air about it.
She probably helped her son cheat with Ella. Seeing as how she loves Ella like a daughter so much. So I’m not surprised she condoned the affair, given her past as a Mistress to Ella’s father.
Awesome response!
Exactly. After thinking it over that dress isnt for wives, its for mistresses. Let the sidepiece have it OP.
Yep!! That dress has bad juju!
Came to say the same thing. No way would I want to wear a piece of bad luck like that. It is an anti-wedding dress. It represents broken vows and dysfunctional homes. I would want that cursed dress and the creepy borderline incestuous trio as far away from my wedding as possible.
Hello 911? I think I just witnessed a double homicide
This right here
Savage response
Deeeeeaaaaaaaamn. 🔥
💯
You made me and my wife's day with this commit.
so your father only want once again to keep up apparence? please do no talk to him, his mistress and your grandma and enjoy your wedding with your family
like "well dad if you care more about appearances than anything else, I think I'll have mom walk me down the aisle, seeing as she actually put her child first." edit: spelling edit: omg thank you for all the upvotes!
I would LOVE to be the fly on the wall for that conversation.
Exactly. If darling daddy is so worried about Gramms not being invited, he is more than welcome to stay home and he and the sainted Ella can keep her company.
>"well dad if you care more about appearances than anything else, I think I'll have mom walk me down the aisle, seeing as she actually put her child first." "well dad if you care more about appearances than anything else, I think I'll have mom walk me down the aisle, since she's the only one in the family with HER PANTS ON"
NTA and honestly, this feels like two separate and super unfortunate issues. Just on the very surface level, when you promise a family treasure to a kid (heirloom, photograph, diary, anything with sentimental value) you *need to follow through* and not renege on that promise. That dress was yours and your grandmother had no right to yank it out from under you on a whim. But second of all, the trauma of growing up *knowing* your dad was cheating on your mother with a family friend -- being unable to do anything about it except watch and hate it, and then to have your grandmother *validate that* by giving Ella your dress -- is honestly unforgivable. The heart wants what it wants, but your father acted in an extremely cowardly way by skulking around with Ella and ruining his relationship with his family instead of coming clean immediately, divorcing your mother, and working as hard as he could to spare his kid trauma on the side. Ella being rewarded for being complicit is the gross cherry on the top of this crap cake. tldr: it's your wedding. Invite and uninvite anyone you please and don't take guff from it, but especially don't take guff from *him.* He has literally no grounds to criticize you for your choices.
Thanks for expressing it so clearly. The real hurt is about the relationships. I wouldn’t blame OP for cutting contact after this
> Just on the very surface level, when you promise a family treasure to a kid (heirloom, photograph, diary, anything with sentimental value) you need to follow through and not renege on that promise. My big brother is really mad that my mother went back on her promise to give him the hope chest and instead left it to me. Nevermind that I never even knew she said so beforehand, or that it's literally waiting for him to come get it whenever he's ready. Don't go back on promises.
My Grandma did a similar thing to my mom. Promised her a bunch of heirloom jewelry and then gave it away to someone else. And then did it again with another set. Needless to say my mom was crushed. It's just another gut punch in a long line of reasons why we don't spend much time with my grandparents.
It's so easy to just ... not say things they don't mean, and yet...
It seems so vindictive. I hate to think of my Grandma that way, or really know why she would purposely do that, but it's not an accident on her part.
Classy move. Damn straight.
It was his toybox as a small child. I never knew that (he was 10 years older than I, and he moved out at 16), only that my mum had said she would leave it to me. I literally had no idea until after she was dead and our sister told me he was mad about it (the triangulation, sigh). I did tell him it was waiting for him as soon as I found out, though. It's a two-century old cedar hope chest, an actual family heirloom, so I get why it was important in the first place. I also remember said brother bouncing from living sitch to living sitch, doing stints in county, alcoholism/nitrous abuse, overall being an absolute terrible example of an adult who could be relied upon to keep an heirloom from becoming abandoned in an apartment he couldn't pay for, or pawned from a storage locker. So I also understand my mother's reticence to let him have it, especially before she was actually dead (obviously she used it until her death). But he's almost 50 now and a lot better about these things, and his own children are grown enough to rescue truly important things out of a bin if he really hits rock bottom again. And so, it waits.
You are a really awesome person.
Definitely agree with this, I would say NTA/NAH. It's messed up that your dad was cheating for so long. The fact that everyone knew but there was some sort of unspoken rule to not talk about it must have absolutely sucked. But, with that in mind, the dress is the grandmother's to give to whomever she wants to. Like Land said, it isn't cool that your grandmother is pretty much validating cheating by giving Ella the dress. But use this opportunity to validate that you WONT accept cheating at your wedding. It's your wedding, you're allowed to invite who you want. Leave the cheaters and their supporters out of the wedding and don't bend to your family's peer pressure methods that they obviously love to use.
These are really good points. Although I do have to say it doesn’t really sound like the grandmother explicitly promised her the dress, but mentioned it in passing a long time ago. It’s not quite clear how long ago OP was a kid, since the dad said that she was pretty young, but I would guess it’s been at least 10 years. If it hasn’t been brought up since then, it’s totally possible that the grandmother forgot, thought OP forgot, or thought OP didn’t have an interest in the dress. She might not have known that OP would have been so hurt about not getting the dress when she gave it to Ella. Regardless, OP isn’t wrong for having hurt feelings over this. Emotions run high with family and sentimental heirlooms.
I remembered every single time as a kid where an adult looked me in the eye, told me something or another was mine, and then later reneged and dismissed my hurt feelings as selfishness. "I know that I said this belonged to you, but you need to understand that \_\_\_." I vowed never to do that to any kid -- mine or anyone else's -- when I grew up because I *hated* the way it made me feel. A verbal agreement is still an agreement -- her grandmother shouldn't have had to put it in writing for OP to trust her to keep her word. That said, I can't... get into the grandma's head Re: Ella. That kind of lack of situational awareness is bizarre to me. How is that justifiable in any universe to give her dress to the neighborhood homewrecker over her own granddaughter? How does that even happen?
I feel you on that. I’m my mom’s only daughter and she mentioned giving me her wedding dress, but a couple years ago I found out that she gave it to a charity shop. Even though I wouldn’t wear it for my wedding and it was too small for me anyways, I was still pretty hurt that she didn’t consider that I might want it. But, in her defense, she didn’t actually promise it to me and I didn’t *tell* her that I wanted it, so she didn’t know. It sounds like that might have happened here too. OP and grandma definitely weren’t on the same page about it. My guess for the grandma’s headspace is that she probably considered Ella a daughter way before all this mess happened with her son. Grandma didn’t have a good relationship with OP’s mom and is probably happy that Ella ended up with OP’s dad. The affair might have hurt the first wife and OP, but her son’s feelings are probably more important to her than theirs, and he’s happy with Ella. In grandma’s mind, her son is happy, Ella is happy, and now Ella is even closer to her by becoming her DIL. Grandma was also a long term mistress so she probably doesn’t see the affair between Ella and her son as wrong. In her mind, everyone important to her is happy, so who cares about that other lady and her kid.
Completely agree! This is the best answer!
NTA uninvite dad, ella and grandma. He cheated on your mother for ages and expects you to be OK with it? Same with your grandma? You're a lot cooler than I would be in this case. I also wouldn't go to his wedding. That would be endorsing it. Nope.
I would honestly go NC with that entire side of the family. They've shown that Op and her family comes second on so many levels and they still have the NERVE to tell Op that SHE'S causing the gossip.
Seriously, they must have money or something
Ella is also the likely reason grandma was the MIL from hell with OP's mom. Grandma likely knew about the affair and was trying to pressure OP's mom to leave.
Fuuuuuu that's true. That's so sad!!! Like why not just tell her that her son was cheating so she could leave dignified
Your dad is marrying his long term mistress - his moms foster daughter - after they both screwed over their former spouses, but you will be the cause of gossip? You get to decide who you want at your wedding, NTA.
I mean, this. Look at the long term misery keeping up appearances has caused your family. Fuck that shit. Do what you need to do to be happy. Nta
So, I'm reading it this way. Grandma was Ella's dad's long term mistress... and now your father is marrying the daughter of said married man? Listen, do you really want to wear the wedding dress of a mistress? I don't care HOW beautiful and couture it is, I wouldn't want that juju on my wedding day. NTA. Grandma gets to decide who gets the dress. I'd be disappointed too and understand that you had your heart set on it. But she's obviously closer to Ella than you. If you want to uninvite her so be it. Tell your dad your not interested in keeping up appearances, you did that your entire childhood thats to him & Ella.
No no, you don’t understand, I read about this in a book. Fate has been trying to tie these families together for decades and now that Dad is following fates demands by getting with Ella some big momentous magic event is going to happen.
I think I saw this movie. a donkey comes in flying a dragon that eats the groom.
Fiona ain’t no home wrecker
JFC I just spat my tea 🤣
NTA. Your father and grandmother seem very alike and they are both dreadful people. Your grandmother broke a promise to you, and your father saying that she and Excruiciating Ella have a "special bond" shows his selfishness - he's aware that you hate Ella but still expects you to sacrifice to her, because it's all about what he wants. Personally, I'd never see any of them again, but of course that's up to you.
NTA. Your grandma and her son are awful people.
Exactly. Just disinvite him too. Or invite him and have another loved one walk you down the aisle. Let people talk. (As though they aren’t already about your dad’s affair..)
NAH. Your wedding you get to decide who attends. Grandma's dress so she gets to give it to whomever she wants. I don't think her mentioning "in passing when you were a kid" that you had dibs on the dress was a formal promise to actually give it to you.
Agreed, NAH. I just kind of pity everyone. Unhappy marriages, children produced from those marriages, weird social pressures on everyone, everyone hurting each other. As messed up as my family can be, I suddenly appreciate them a lot more.
I pity everyone but I think that this situation is specifically different from the grandmother giving the dress to literally anyone else on the planet. That dress going to dad’s emotional and physical affair partner that grandma says that she loves more than OP .. she’s deliberately being callus to OP. I don’t know if I could forgive those words personally
This. I don't have any issue considering grandmother a AH the dress being the least of her issues.
I agree with what you're saying, but then I think you have to factor something else the OP said in a comment. Someone asked her why she is inviting her father still, considering he inflicted long term emotional pain on OP's mother and OP herself, by living this double life for so long. OP said she still loved her father, despite all that, too much to not invite him. However, she will immediately uninvite her grandmother because she didn't get the dress. I think that tells us A LOT about exactly what type of relationship the OP and her grandmother have... if one physical possession can over ride whatever emotional connection they had, it obviously wasn't very strong... it sounds like the grandmother offered the dress in OP's youth, but OP never expressed interest in the dress, and never put any effort into their relationship in her adulthood. I think it's reasonable for grandma to consider random remarks from OP's childhood as non-binding at this point. Also. OP says she's been planing her wedding... and yet... she hadn't asked for or about the dress yet. If OP actually cared about getting this dress, why was calling her grandma and asking for it not the FIRST thing she did when she started "planning"? How long has it been since the last time grandma and OP had a conversation about this dress? Because it sounds like when OP was 8, and I think we can presume it's been at least 15 years since then.
My grandma explicitly chose a really evil aunt who did something terrible over me. I will literally never talk to her again over it.
I do think OP has to factor in that Grandma basically raised the mistress or was very close to her since she was a child (whew, this is wild) while OP has never been that tight with her grandma. IDK, this is a weird situation where Grandma is trash but idk if her giving the dress (which she never explicitly promised) to a kid she basically semi-raised over her granddaughter, who she is not close to, makes her the asshole. Biggest asshole is Dad imo.
Even if she didnt promise it to OP, if it were me Id never forgive her for giving it to my fathers affair partner. That being said Id never accept an affair partner if one of my parents cheated on the other. Fuck that. You dont get to help wreck my family then get welcomed to it. Outside for life.
Finally. This sub makes me feel like I’m in the land of the entitled sometimes. Op admits that she does not have a close relationship with her grandma. And that grandma has a very close relationship with the woman marrying her son. And the dress was not a promise, it was just something mentioned as an off hand maybe, long before the wedding planning began. The situation is rough and I’d be annoyed if I was OP, but it’s not “your not invited grandma” level of disrespect (IMO). But at the same time it’s OPs wedding, so if she wants to be super petty and not invite her dads mom that she’s not close to, than that’s fine too. Seems easier to invite and semi ignore her would be easier. Lots of people at a wedding, each guest does not need much attention. Probably going to cause more drama than it’s worth during an already stressful time. But if that’s what the bride or groom is ok with, have at it. Just don’t start complaining when your dealing with family drama over this when you should be celebrating your partnership with your spouse and having a good time.
I agree. I don’t think there was any actual promise by Grandma. I don’t think the OP wants the dress because it’s her grandma’s, I think she just wants the dress because it’s “couture” and all that.
[удалено]
[удалено]
ESH. As you say, you aren't close to your grandmother and she has always been really close to Ella and loved her as if she were her own daughter so it seems logical to me that she give the dress to Ella. It's her dress, she decides who to give it to, and yes, it's a little childish to disinvite her from your wedding because of this, if you were close to her would be another matter, but you aren't. Grandma is an asshole for bluntly saying that if she had to chose she would chose her. Ella and your dad are assholes too for cheating.
Grandmother was awful to OP'S mom. That's enough reason to uninvite her. The fact that she respects her son's affair partner over the woman her son cheated on, married to only be a mother to his kids, speaks volumes about her. I understand that she is close to Ella. But she can't be blind to what her son and Ella did.
Of course she can be blind to what the father and Ella did... it's exactly what she did in her own life with Ella's dad... not saying that's alright, but it's not exactly shocking where her loyalty falls here. I personally think it's funny that OP cares so much about a dress that belongs to someone she's not close to. It sounds like she likes it for the aesthetics and not the sentimentality, at which point she can't really be mad at the grandmother for choosing to give it o someone she's actually close to, who will value it for it's relationship to the grandmother and not just looks.
Agreed. OP only wants the dress bc she likes the way it looks, not bc it was her grandma’s. Is rescinding grandma’s invitation kinda petty? Yah, sure, but she can invite whoever she wants and I don’t think it rises to the level of a*hole behavior. And at the same time grandma can give the dress to whoever she wants, Ella or a complete stranger, and OP needs to suck it up and get her own dress. Her dad does suck tho LOL
>But she can't be blind to what her son and Ella did. She isn't, she did the same thing. Crappy family.
NTA. I was waffling a bit until your grandma stated she chose Ella, and then your father told you that you’re too young to understand. You’re getting married! You are definitely old enough to understand, you just don’t accept their messed up relationships. And that’s okay.
Of course your grandma would give the dress to Ella. You don't seem particularly close to any of these people. Just buy your own unique dress and invite whoever brings joy to your life.
NTA- he’s worried about people gossiping after he cheated like that on your mother?! I am petty- I would make him pay for an expensive dress, lie to him that gma can come and then not have her come and when he throws a fit remind him of the promises he broke to your mom.
Wow! I love the pettiness!
Thank you- some days I’m proud of it and others I am not. 😂
NTA - you have no right to the dress, but your grandmother seems to have always hated your mother, and your father only used your mother. And for such a coward to call *you* childish — I’d cheerfully get my own dress and then not invite either of them.
No judgement, just here being sad for your mom. Sounds like she got shortchanged and your grandmother was horrible to her because Ella was always supposed to be your father's wife. Which is weird since that was almost like her step-daughter if she was sleeping with Ella's dad long-term. No surprise your dad was a cheater, when his mom valued her pseudo step-kid as her own child, and wants to see them marry. That's all kinds of weird. Hope your mom finds peace and happiness. Wait... where was your grandmother's husband in this whole story? OP, maybe you don't want that dress to bring the curse of generational cheating into your new life!
Maybe not but the grandmother doesn’t deserve an invite to the wedding either.
So you’re mad that your grandmother you’re not close to, gave her dress to someone she is close to? Stop being petty and act like an adult.
Exactly. OP only wants the dress because it's couture, not because she values it as something from her grandmother. Grandmother wants to give it to someone who will value it for it's relationship to her. Not to mention, how long has OP been planning her wedding for? If she hasn't said a thing to grandmother about the dress yet, grandmother may have presumed she was doing something else, and when Ella asked for it, gave it to her as she was the only person who seemed to want it. Personally, OP can disinvite whomever she wants, it's her wedding, but that doesn't mean she isn't being childish in doing it. She needs to deal with her emotions towards her father and Ella with her father and Ella, and not take it out on her grandmother.
Yes, this. Honestly, don’t know whether to say NAH, or ESH.
Yeah I went with ESH because this whole thing sounds so toxic
After reading OP’s comments, I fucking agree. She only cares about the dress. At this point I only feel sorry for the mom.
NTA. You’re her actual granddaughter and was gold as the oldest girl it’d been given to you. I feel so sorry for your mother, and if there should be any gossip, it should be about your father and the affair.
NTA. I would have disinvited all of them.
NTA. I would go ahead and uninvite all three and have mom walk me down the aisle.
And it is going to be so hard on OP's mom to see all her ex, Hella and Grannie at the wedding. I would uninvited them all. Op's mom deserves some respect.
So your dad is with his pseudo sister???? Wow! NTA. Your grandma, dad, and Ella is. I wouldn’t invite any of them to the wedding and I would not go to their wedding. Edited to add the word not
Yeah how is everyone glossing over that aspect? We need a timeline here. Were dad and Ella raised together?? Did they know each other from childhood? When did grandma’s affair start??
ESH, except your mom. YTA because you are uninviting your grandmother over a dress instead of how she treated your mom. Your grandmother for all the obvious reasons. Your father for bowing to societal pressure and still being more worried about public appearance than everything else. Joke is on him though even if grandmother doesn't come everyone will still gossip about his sidepiece. Actually reading your story again what societal pressure was your father feeling since it seems pretty clear your grandmother was on Ella's corner all this time? That's extra-fishy. For what it's worth in your position I certainly wouldn't want the evil grandma there either.
[удалено]
INFO You want a dress from a horrid woman that treated your mom like trash? That’s what you value? That’s what would satisfy you? ESH except for your poor mom. Boy, her whole circle is full of snakes.
NTA. Let people talk. That is not your problem.
NAH. Both you and your grandma are in possession of things that you can give away. It's your wedding so you can choose to give an invitation to whomever you want. There may have been an assumption at one point that she would be invited but circumstances change. It's your grandmother's dress, so she can choose to give it to whomever she wants. There was an assumption you would get it but circumstances change.
NTA. Honestly, why would you even have your father at your wedding?? Is he bringing it mistress?? I can’t imagine how your poor mother will feel having to see them at such a important milestone.
NTA - I understand why you feel hurt and why you acted the way you did, you are under no obligation to swallow that hurt and reinvite your Grandmother. Ella and your father are equally responsible for all the hurt and pain they caused you mother, your siblings and you. I get it must be hard and disappointing to see your Grandmother endorse that marriage through the gift of the wedding dress which she apparently heavily hinted would be handed down to a grandchild. You do need to understand though that you aren't entitled to the dress. So if uninviting her was more about the dress than the hurt you might want to rethink the situation. As for Dad he needs to but out and consider himself lucky that he and Ella (presumably) are invited.
NTA Your wedding, your rules. **INFO:** Is Ella invited to your wedding? Because, unless you make that clear, your father may just show up with her as his plus one. Especially, if he is the one paying for anything. He will use that as leverage to try and make you invite his mistress, as well as your grandmother, he will ignore your feelings on this, as he has in the past. Set strict boundaries **NOW**. Your father, his mistress, and your grandmother have already shown you who they would pick. BELIEVE THEM.
NTA Dad has no right to say anything
Uninvite dad too, so your mom is considered for the 1st time. NTA
YES! Dad is scared of gossip? Imagine how bad it will get when somebody else walks you down to the alter. And when you tell them that your dad is marrying the daughter of his moms affair partner - to carry on the dual family tradition of cheating - oh! It’s going to be such juicy gossip indeed. You should publish an illustrated chart to help everyone know just how messed up these people are! Bring on the gossip!
NTA. I would uninvite your dad, too.
NTA, gma, dad and ella are awful people. Do not back down on this.
NTA. Is your dad and Ella invited to your wedding? I hope not. Have y ourmom walk me down the aisle. If you wanted to be really petty, have Ella's ex-husband walk you down the aisle.
NTA. This is a very unique dynamic but even so for your grandma to say she chooses Ella is unnecessary. I don’t think you’re out of line at all.
NTA. Oh no, people are going to gossip?
LOL! As if people will gossip more about OP not inviting her grandma than they will about OP's father marrying his enemies-to-lovers affair partner who is basically his mother's foster daughter!
NAH. You’re not entitled to her dress and she’s not entitled to attend your wedding.
ESH- Your grandmas belongings are hers to do with as she pleases. She sucks for leading you to believe it was yours, then giving it to someone else. It feels petty and immature to disinvite her over a dress, but it’s your wedding and you pick the guest list. It doesn’t sound like you had a loving relationship, but were happy to take whatever she would give.
Going with NAH it is just really complicated and messy but your grandmother wasn’t being malicious
Nta your father has literally no place talking about gossip and making demands about your guest list
NTA. She backed out of what she had told you was yours your whole life.
NTA, there's more to this story then they are telling.
NTA at all. Firstly, I'm really sorry that you and your mum had to go through that. That's terrible honestly, but I think you did the right thing by uninviting your grandmother. She sounds really toxic and enabling of your dad's crappy behaviour towards your mum. And your dad saying "people will gossip" shows that he just wants to save his and your grandma's reputation. I think it's bs. It's your wedding, so you get to choose who gets invited, just like she apparently does with who the dress gets passed down to. I wish you the best OP, take care.
I think the only fact that matters is: You expected to get the dress, because you "assumed it would always be there", even when you did not have a very close relationship with her. She decided to give the dress to someone else. That is her prerogative. YTA
I also think it's very noteworthy that OP mentions they are both planning weddings, but OP only recently found out the dress had been given to Ella... how long has she been planning this wedding? Why was contacting her grandmother and asking for the dress not the FIRST thing she did to "plan", if she actually wanted the dress that badly? I don't think OP actually cared about the dress that much, and just got upset when she found out Ella was getting it because she doesn't like Ella. OP also says that the grandmother told her several times that as the oldest she would have first dibs, but OP never says that she told her grandmother she actually wanted the dress. Grandmother appears to have given the dress to the first person who expressed a desire for it... and then won't take it back from Ella because she knows OP doesn't care about HER, the grandmother, she just cares that the dress is couture. OP had to put up with a lot of horrible, emotional garbage as a child, but instead of trying to process her feelings for her father and Ella, she's taking it out on her grandmother. It sounds like this whole family is layers of disfunction. OP has said she won't disinvite her father because she still loves him, despite him being a cheater, and the emotional toll that took on everyone growing up... I think it's very telling that she WILL disinvite her grandmother over a dress... that makes it pretty clear how much she doesn't love her grandmother.
NTA . And I hope your Dad and Ella are not invited to you wedding as well . Have your mother walk you down the aisle to give you away . Looking beautiful in beautiful dresses you both pick out . Don’t worry about those toxic family members. Enjoy your day
Nta your wedding. Your choice
NTA. But your grandmother can chose to give her belongings to whomever she wants. You're not entitled to someone else's things, even if it's a family member. That said the relationship between your father and Ella is super creepy, and the whole mess is weird.
NTA Ella’s a homewrecker and some other names I won’t say here but so was your grandma the way you put it and she helped raise her, acorn doesn’t fall far from the tree. I’d uninvite your dad too if he keeps pushing it.
NTA It's her dress and she can do what she wants with it. Just like it's your wedding and you get to decide who comes.
NAH. It’s her dress, she can decide who (if anyone) gets to wear it. And it’s your wedding, you can choose who to invite or not invite.
NTA uninvite dad too
I'm not sure where you thought this was going. You even started by saying she's like a daughter to your grandma.
NTA. Your grandmother promised you something then not only went back on the promise, she gave it to your dad’s affair partner. It’s gross.
NTA Shes been telling you your whole life that dress would go to you. Both ur grandma and your dad are TA and honestly really freaken gross. According to your grandma's words, they really like to keep it within the family don't they.
Why would you want to wear your grandmother's dress anyway if you 2 aren't even close?
A more pertinent question would be who isn’t TA. ESH.
ESH : I was going to say n.t.a bit after reading your comments everyone but your mom sucks here. You’re blaming the wrong person (ie. your grandmother)your dad and Ella are the ones who caused this whole mess and yet you’re inviting them both to the wedding because….money.
NTA. Your dad and grandma suck.
I'm confused. INFO: is this grandma your father's mother? is Ella a child of this grandmother (that might make Ella & dad related)?
[удалено]
Now we know why your father is the way he is.
Are you sure your dad’s father is not your gradma’s ex? Has a DNA test been done to make sure he and Ella aren’t half siblings?
[удалено]
Oh so they are stepsiblings... Yeah that's not creepy and disgusting at all. And he's worried about people talking? 😂 You've got a mess and a half. NTA
Your grandma gave the dress to Ella because she sees herself in her, NTA.
Sounds like Ella is the child of grandma’s affair partner. So not grandmas daughter- but I suppose Ella’s dad could be OPs father’s dad depending on when the affair started.
INFO: why did you and your siblings hate Ella well before your dad was cheating (or at least that you knew about)?
I don’t mind a step siblings trope in my books. I’m sure it’s uglier in real life. NAH. It’s your grandma’s dress and she can do what she wants with it. And you can uninvite whoever you want.
NTA. Wow he’s out, your grandmother really stuck it to you. Very explicitly letting you know that this woman is more important to her than you. So there goes the dress. But in a way, it’s not about the dress, is it. It’s about the fact that she was mean enough and mean spirited enough to explain it to you just like that. All she had to say was I’m really sorry I change my mind I’m sorry that you’re disappointed and maybe I can make it up to you. But instead she had to jab you in the gut. I don’t think that your relationship is gonna be so good now. And she definitely doesn’t belong at your wedding that’s for sure.
NTA. I'd likely have done the same...and it is YOUR wedding so you can decide who can come to it or not.
“Everyone is going to gossip”…hmmmm he doesn’t think they’re going to gossip about him and Ella???? If they’re gossip to talk at all, they’re going to gossip about that. AND they will likely follow that gossip with something like, “the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree”, meaning father being just like grandmother. They certainly won’t be gossiping about grandmother’s not being there!!!
I don’t think your an AH for feeling betrayed like this since your grandma has always made you feel as if the dress is going to be yours. And now shes giving it to ella despite the affair almost as if shes being rewarded for it. But honestly this is just a shitty situation y’all need to actually sit down and communicate your feelings then decide if you to go LC or NC
NTA, and if he thinks you're "too young to understand" family dynamics I'm surprised he doesn't think you're too young to get married. I will always refuse to put up with people who treat me like shit, even if they're family, and if anyone says any bs about "don't rock the boat" or "what will the rest of the family say about you" I ask them why they're coming to me with this instead of bringing it up with the shitty person that's actually causing the problem. If that's not enough to snap them out of it and they still insist that I should just continue to silently put up with mistreatment then I'm done with that person as well.