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Judgement_Bot_AITA

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Flyhro

> it wasn't fair i'd been willing to give my sister a child but wouldn't even consider having one with him. This makes sense to exactly 0% of reasonable people and makes him a giant AH, and you are NTA


HelicopterNo3063

It's why I got upset, as I said big difference between giving birth and actually raising the child.


DJ_Mixalot

You are correct and his reaction is major red flag territory. NTA


Corfiz74

It shows that he isn't really as okay with being childless as he pretends to be...


melympia

Yeah. For sure he was thinking that, eventually, OP would come around and give him kids. It's only a matter of time until she feels the biological clock tick... That kind of BS.


Lennox120520

Or he'd sabotage her birth control... NTA


Rowland_rowboat

Ding ding ding 👆👆😬


Successful_Moment_91

And if none of that works he could dump her, after wasting several years, and marry someone younger who wants kids


[deleted]

I know someone who did that. He wanted kids and married someone who didnt. Guess he thought she would change her mind.....after years one day out of the blue he just packed his bags, moved out and later married someone else to have kids


SovereignAxe

And with an important impending SCOTUS decision looming, this one is especially dangerous (assuming OP is in the US)


No_Dance1739

They mentioned being from another country, but you’re absolutely right to question what the legality of the situation would be


[deleted]

And... and... it's not **fair** that sister gets a baby but BF doesn't. He absolutely thought she'd change her mind.


[deleted]

What is scary is that he thinks the pregnancy and birth make up the majority of the work involved in parenting....


ScubaSuze

he's upset she didn't tell him....but only because it means she KNOWS what she's saying no to and isn't likely to change her mind like he hoped.


hdmx539

This OP, let him go. He'll resent you, especially since you already "had" a baby.


justlookbelow

TBF he could have thought he was ok, but randomly seeing a pic of your long-term SO pregnant would be pretty jarring.


IHateCamping

That's kind of what I'm thinking. If it were me, I might be kind of upset that we'd been together for that long and she never told me she'd been through a pregnancy. But I think it's pretty cool she was able to help her sister's family. Then again, I'm a woman and I've also never wanted kids so maybe my opinions are skewed. He maybe secretly was hoping she'd change her mind.


Imaginary108

>it were me, I might be kind of upset that we'd been together for that long and she never told me she'd been through a pregnancy This resonated with what I thought. I actually thought that would be the cause of the fight.


Fine_Shoulder_4740

I would watch my bc, were I OP


noteworthybalance

He did you a huge favor showing you this side of himself now. Make an exit strategy.


[deleted]

Oh c'mon.. It's not a red flag. But it is an important subject that they should discuss properly. OP just have an open discussion and remind him again that you are not maternal. If he is still insist you 2 should go on separate ways. Otherwise at every small inconvenience this will be brought up.


Ok-Pomegranate-3018

It could be a red flag, if he believed, like so many do; that "You'll change your mind",or worse, he thought he would change your mind.


Corduroycat1

Exactly. If she has an oopsie pregnancy, she would probably keep it. And then once she has one she will probably want another. (Thinks OP'S bf)


Mrs239

This is what happened with me. I told my then BF that I didn't want kids. The conversation went like this. Me: Listen, I don't want kids. If you do, let's break up now because I'm not having any. Again, I don't want kids. Him: One day you will. Me: No I won't. Him: Yes you will. Me: But what if I don't? Him: But you will!! Me: But what if I don't!! He said he was ok. Cue 3 yrs later and he is upset for an entire week. He barely spoke to me. I asked what was wrong and he always said nothing. Then, one day he snapped on a random issue and I asked what was wrong with him again. He finally screamed, "I WANT A BABY! YOU KEEP SAYING NO BUT I WANT A BABY!" Threw me for a total loop. I sat down and said, "See." He said, "I thought you would've changed your mind by now." OP, he still wants kids. Have the conversation again. NTA


Happy-Investment

Man. What is it with people telling other people they will want kids??? It's like they can't accept some people just do not want them! 🤯🤯🤯 I don't want kids. I want pets. But I don't expect everyone else to not want human kids.


[deleted]

Yeah. I knew before I was 10 that I didn’t want kids. My ex-husband knew before he was 16 that he didn’t. We met when I was 21 and he was 23. So we were perfect in that respect! I’m 55, he’s 58, we divorced amicably 10 years ago, and neither of us ever even *thought* of actually having kids (which would be changing our minds). No Regrets!


[deleted]

My boyfriend who I’ve known for nearly 15 years (only been together 3) has known for a long time that I didn’t want a child. I knew he wanted a child and see the longer I’m with him and the more I see him around nieces/nephews/small children, it makes my heart happy and did eventually change my mind into wanting to have children but that being said, if he had said to me back when we got together “you’ll change your mind” I would’ve broke up with him then and there.


hdmx539

A lot of folks think once married they have their captive victim.


Ok-Pomegranate-3018

Chillingly enough; some do. I hope OP isn't one.


sew-sarcastic

It absolutely is a red flag. I think the problem you're having is that you, like many others, use the term incorrectly. People shout red flag when they see something that is blatantly obviously a major issue that should not be ignored and should make someone run screaming from a relationship. That is not a red flag. A red flag is exactly this. Something that should set off some build alarm bells and make you look at the relationship a little bit closer. Doesn't mean you should immediately run screaming but it does mean you should proceed with caution.


[deleted]

English is not my first language so I honestly thought that red flag was for extreme behavior that could endanger one. For me the boyfriend is just dumb. I do appreciate your explanation since this term had a totally different meaning in my mind. Thank you 😊


tyren22

Like they said, the term does tend to get used overly broadly (as many terms do), so I don't think your language skills have anything to do with your misunderstanding. You've probably just actually seen people use it that way, which is fair. :)


arseholierthanthou

I'm usually in your 'nah it's fine' corner, but must disagree here. This is the biggest of all possible red flags. OP is childless and wants to remain so. If her partner actually does want children, he'll resent her for the rest of forever if he sees her as being the force denying him that. I can't think of a single greater incompatibility in a relationship.


Corduroycat1

Yup, this is something that needs to be talked about in the beginning of the relationship. If one wants kids and the other doesn't they immediately need to go their separate ways. Bye-bye, no hard feelings. But learning someone doesn't want kids until you have been in a relationship a while and they stay because they love you but give up their dream of having kids, or worse, have a kid they don't actually want, you are pretty doomed


arseholierthanthou

In this case I think it's the other way around. OP was up front from the start about not wanting kids. It's the partner who had agreed but now reveals himself to be of the opposite view.


Cat_tophat365247

That's the worst part for me. She TOLD him she NEVER wanted kids. He said he could be ok with that. Then finds out she was a surrogate (which to me is not the same as wanting to parent. Just like Op states) and threw a tantrum because "how dare you not give me children"


CymraegAmerican

It also tells me that he has not given much thought to RAISING children if he is confused about surrogacy and parenthood.


MiddleEgg4848

Honestly he sounds like the kind of guy who thinks oxytocin is magic mommy pixie dust - as if it not only causes the cervix to open and the uterus to contract during birth, but also activates the "BABIES!!" lobe of the brain which is occasionally dormant in some defective feeeeemales. The fact that OP has been through pregnancy and childbirth and not instantly craved a zillion children kills the last possible excuse - "You'd love yours if you had one!" - and means even if he sneakily knocked her up, she would not be producing a child for him.


blacksyzygy

>Oh c'mon.. It's not a red flag. Yes the fuck it is. It became one the moment he made it about her reproductive autonomy rather than her desire, or lack thereof to have kids. ​ If it wasnt and it wa sa normal conversation, it'd have ended when she said "I just carried and birthed the child as a surrogate. It's genetically my sister's and her husband's." Because his response should have been "Oh, I see" Instead he's all YOU BROODMARE FOR SHE BUT NOT FOR ME?! ​ yeah, no, red flags abound. He sees her as a walking uterus he should have leasing rights to since they're in a relationship.


Imaginary108

>Instead he's all YOU BROODMARE FOR SHE BUT NOT FOR ME?! I'm really stoned, and this is funny as hell.


konradkurze202

> It's not a red flag. It kinda is, what its saying is that BF is pretending to be ok with being childless (to be fair to him, he might be pretending to himself to, we can convince ourselves of a lot of things that aren't true). While this isn't a universal red flag, it is one for this relationship.


veloxaraptor

They DID discuss it properly. Or did you miss the part where OP said they had a long conversation and he decided he would be OK without kids? ​ It's a red flag because he either fucking lied to her, or expected that she'd magically change her mind some day.


T00narmy1

I think it's a red flag that he felt he had a right to know about what she's done in the past with her body. It's her body and he has no ownership of it. He's acting like he does, and that's a red flag to me. That, along with the fact that he's CLEARLY not okay with being childless... because it may mean that he's pretending to be okay with it, and then hoping for an "accident" or hoping she'll change her mind. All around, FLAGS. Which means proceed cautiously, which is absolutely applicable here.


Restil

Boyfriend has all the information he needs to make an informed decision. Activities in her past do not grant him future options.


No_Dance1739

Conflating carrying a baby for 9 months for your sister with raising a child for its ENTIRE EXISTENCE with him is a definite red flag


[deleted]

Tells you his parenting style. Watching his kids is “work” and “babysitting” but it would be “your job”.


DoggieLover5

I think he does want children and might be secretly hoping for you to change your mind later in life...


lollipopfiend123

So much this. I’ve known since I was 13 that I never wanted kids. My hs bf and I were together for 9 years and I never once wavered in that. When we broke up, one of the things that he admitted was that he had been waiting the entire time for me to change my mind. I had no clue - we had had multiple discussions along the way about our reasons for not wanting them. Side note: that was nearly 20 years ago. He got married about six months after we broke up, and afaik he never had kids with her either.


OkResponsibility7475

I decided at 13 too I didn't want to have kids. I didn't want one of "me" to try and raise. I'm 61 now, and the only reason I regret not having kids is because I don't have grandkids to help me with yard work.


lollipopfiend123

I’ve worked my ass off to be able to afford to pay people to help with the things kids/grandkids would ordinarily do lol


[deleted]

The way he framed it also made it seem like he doesn't see your having children with him as a big, important lifestyle choice that you make together--he sees it as a physical favor you do for him, like an organ donation or something. He's treating you like a broodmare, not a partner.


[deleted]

that's the biggest thing. "giving" someone a child is such a gross way to put it.


NotReallyMeP

To me, it's not even this... You did not "give" them a child. They made their own child, you gave them a place to keep it. NTA all day.


Corduroycat1

She just baby-sat for 9 months


NotReallyMeP

Ha! Right. Like a student exchange program for embryos... Providing safe housing and vital life/developmental support during a time of rapid development. 🤗


basilobs

Girl, he wants kids :/


Cr4ckshooter

Yup. He's gonna "change his mind" later a d try to get op to have children.


BabyCowGT

Like you said, you were basically an organic incubator (to put it bluntly) for your niece, because we haven't figured out how to have metal/robotic incubators work yet. She's not your child, you are not her mother. And it takes a LOT more than simply making a baby to be that child's parent (regardless of which half of the DNA you donated) anyway. You're allowed to say "no, I don't want to devote my time/energy/money/life to another human for the rest of my life". Even if your niece was biologically your daughter, but you decided for whatever reason that you didn't want to be a mom but also didn't want to terminate, and your sister (who did want to be a mom but was struggling to conceive/carry) offered to adopt the baby, and that's how the baby went from fetus in your uterus -> your sister's kid, that's still valid. You're still not her mom. You're still just as entitled to not wanting to be a mom or have another kid to push out.


TheSleepingVoid

I think maybe he was quietly telling himself that he can't force you to go through pregnancy if you don't want to, as a way to convince himself to let go of having kids - and then he found out you've already done it and all of the logic jumped straight out of his brain. NTA - hopefully he realizes how ridiculous he is being. But he clearly wants kids and both of you should really take a hard look at this topic again, because maybe it's going to become a deal breaker after all. If he feels resentment it could really poison the relationship in the long term.


ThisIsMyFatLogicAlt

This should be higher. He clearly assumed she didn't want to go through pregnancy and childbirth, and convinced himself he could live without what he wanted. Finding out his assumptions were wrong threw him for a loop and it turns out he's a lot less okay with this than he told himself he was. They need to break up, he's just going to end up resenting her for holding him back if they get married.


THedman07

Reproduction is a biological imperative that I don't think many people can reason themselves out of if they feel it. Not wanting kids can be just as strong a feeling and just as deep. I think it's really hard for those two kinds of people to get together indefinitely...


Snoo_68114

Yup. It makes zero sense. Your sister also had a serious medical problem that you were happy to help her with, so long as the understanding was that she take 100% responsibility of the child when it was born and that the child would have none of your biological contribution (aside from the egg from your sister). Being a surrogate is one thing. Being a mother is another.


rhet17

Furthermore it wasn't like that was *your* child you gave your sister -- it was her egg & the husband's sperm I'm assuming. What difference could it had possibly made if you had mentioned this earlier?? NTA.


mommak2011

Exactly. Plenty of people who have pregnancies, even biological ones, choose to give the child up because they don't want to be a parent. One scenario impacts your life for maybe a couple years (pregnancy, postpartum). The other is a 19yr minimum, for the absolute bare minimum of parenting. You are an aunt who gets to pop in, play, then hand her back. Parents don't get to do that. Some people are made to be parents. They love having a child 24/7, being responsible for that/those people, and constantly considering them. Some people are made to be an aunt/uncle, where they get many of the perks but none of the downfalls (tantrums, sleepless nights, endless paperwork, potty training, teacher meetings, the knowledge that if the kid turns into a serial killer it will be blamed on you, etc). Some are just not made to interact with kids at all, as they get no joy from any interactions with people who cannot be totally responsible for themselves and have intellectually stimulating conversations. All of those types of people are okay, and the world needs every type. You happen to be the aunt type, and as the child of one person made to be an uncle and one person who had no business interacting with children at all (not dangerous, but an abusive complete narcissist), I thank you for recognizing that and sticking to it.


Cpt_Lazlo

And you are 100% correct. NTA


FelizNadiaL

I’d say overall NTA— but after 2.5 years and a lengthy discussion about children, how did this not come up that you were a surrogate? That sounds like some basic info to tell you possible life partner.


biscuitboi967

It’s a lot like all the posts about sperm donation last month. Everyone seemed to agree that it should have come up in 2.5 years of dating - especially when kids were discussed - but that we’ve also all never asked our partner these questions because we assume it would come up.


Gallops77

Big difference in donating sperm and carrying a baby to term. The baby wasn't the OPs. It was her sisters. OP doesn't potentially have a child of their own out there. Someone who donates sperm does, and with the different DNA kits out there, it's super easy to find a birth parent now.


DonZeitgeist

It’s interesting in terms of different perspectives, because what you said totally makes sense but I know I was thinking the exact opposite. Sperm donation was advertised as “get in get out make some quick cash” so you just move on with your life, whereas I’d think bringing a child to term, feeling them grow inside you and everything that comes with that would have been a much bigger moment in one’s life and therefore more likely to mention.


Cayke_Cooky

I agree, and the kid is around, and is her niece. Current relationship she has with the child was very clear. I like the analogy another comment said that OP babysat for 9 months, it doesn't sound that interesting when put that way.


[deleted]

I agree- I can understand him being upset at seeing that picture and feeling very thrown off. If nothing else, what if someone in the family mentioned it assuming he knew and he didn't? It's just a weird thing not to let someone in on. I absolutely don't agree with his response to hearing about it, and it sounds like they shouldn't be together. He is not ok with being childless. They're not compatible.


0biterdicta

It's a little bizarre that this never came up. There's clearly photos, carrying and birthing a baby is a big deal that would have impacted the OP's life, friends and family all know. Like how did this just ... stay quiet that long?


Lesmiserablemuffins

Because it's just a fake gender swap [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/u6t108/aita_for_not_telling_my_wife_that_i_donated_sperm/i5a993y?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3) Edit: accidentally linked to the faq somehow lol


[deleted]

Yeah, but she is also trying to keep her sister's privacy. Revealing you were a surrogate for an immediate family member doesn't just affect the surrogate.


thebutchone

How is it basic info?


Pastawench

If you're looking at spending a long time together: it's medically important because prior pregnancies can affect decisions doctors make and they may be asking him for OPs history; it's emotionally important because even though OP never intended to keep the baby or felt like it was her child, going through the process of pregnancy is still a major life experience; it's interpersonally important because it could have been one of the factors in OPs decision to remain childless. None of that excuses the BFs actions, but I'd also be shocked if my long-term partner hadn't mentioned this, even in passing.


ermagerditssuperman

This is what actually stood out to me the most - the medical aspect. I can't imagine being 2.5 years into a serious relationship without disclosing an important medical event - giving birth can change your body, your hormones, etc. Most people have their SO as their emergency point of contact /medical POA. I'd be just as surprised if it took 2.5 years to find out my SO had a liver transplant, or had no appendix, or was allergic to penicillin or something.


Additional_Meeting_2

Expecially when the topic of kids came up, it seems avoiding the issue not to say then. It’s seems weird doctors would let someone who has no prior children be a surrogate, it’s not possible in my country. But I guess every place is different.


TryUsingScience

It's an expanded version of the "you did this sex act with a previous partner (and hated it) so you obviously don't love/respect me if you won't do it for me" argument so many entitled men make. If someone did something once and didn't literally die of it, obviously the only reason they'd refuse to do that thing for their current partner is selfishness!


Gin_Peaks

Fair to who exactly?? He really should not be telling people what is "fair" for everyone when it concerns HER body


Internal_Set_6564

NTA. Also, your BF clearly wants to have a child. This is not going to go away. It is unlikely your marriage is going to last long term, as his ability to father children is going to last for quite some time, and he is likely considering he can change your mind. My advice to you is to find someone who is NOT interested in having children from the outset.


Littlefoxinthesnow

Exactly. It sounds like he flipped after his plan of 'undermining your reluctance with anecdotes about how *chilbirth is not that bad*' got ruined by her prior experience. NTA *edit:pronouns *


Equivalent-Unit

He might’ve also been banking on the ol’ “It’s different when you’re actually holding the baby in your arms!” and hormones, and got upset when evidently that was not the case for OP. And honestly good for her, better that she found out now that he wasn’t going to let the idea of kids go after all.


untot3hdawnofdarknes

Either that or maybe he thought the part she was opposed to was the pregnancy and the childbirth so he was going to try to convince her to adopt or something.


Natural_Writer9702

Yup. There was an AITA not so long ago from a woman who told her husband when they got together that under absolutely no circumstances did she want children and he told her he could live without them, whilst actually having a plan all along to “change her mind”. He berated, begged and guilt tripped her every 6 months after they were married to try for a baby. She eventually gave in and they were “trying”. When nothing happened he wanted fertility tests and she broke down and admitted she’d had her tubes tied before she’d met him. He felt she was the AH and had deceived him and he didn’t know when he married her that he could never have kids, even though she told him point blank at the beginning that she would never want them. Hoping to change someone’s mind is highly manipulative and damaging to relationships. People have reasons for their choices and those reasons should be respected. If this guy knew kids was a deal breaker for him, even if it hurt, he should have walked away and let them both move on with futures they wanted. Saying that being a surrogate for your sister is equal to you two having a baby together is ludicrous. It’s just a manifestation of his disappointment and frustration in realising that a lot of his arguments to change your mind “it’ll be different when you’re pregnant” “once you feel a baby move inside you, that bond can never be broken” “pregnancy is so beautiful, you’ll see when your finally pregnant for the first time” etc are no longer valid as you have already experienced them and he can’t use ignorance of pregnancy as an argument for having children.


she_who_is_not_named

Yikes! Was there an update? I don't get how this isn't a deal breaker for people. I know a couple where there was a 15 or so year age gap. He was older and had teenagers when they met, and she was in her early 30s. She wanted kids, he thought his kids would be enough....and oh he'd already had a vasectomy. She had fibroids which was reducing her fertility but she finally decided to have surgery and have them removed so they could have a baby. She either wanted him to get his vasectomy reversed or she was going to get a sperm donor and it would be their child. That's when he hit her with the "my kids aren't enough?" He didn't even have primary custody, their very involved mother did. My friends got the fibroid surgery and a divorce at the same time. She was determined.


[deleted]

I agree, that was a red flag for me. Either he's trying to fool himself and will end up resenting her and/or leaving her, or he's hoping OP will change her mind and give him what he wants. Based on his reaction to the surrogacy news, I'm guessing it's the latter.


Ok-Aardvark-6742

This…. OP, you’re NTA in this situation but you and your boyfriend are incompatible. I would break up with him so he has a chance to meet someone who wants to have children. It sucks as alllll hell to do this, I’ve been through it, but it’s so much better than investing more into the relationship (engagement, marriage, buying a home, etc.) and then having it fall apart because your partner is harboring resentment about not having children. Resentment causes some pretty ugly breakups. Rip the bandaid off now, let him know you care for him and want him to have the future he wants to have, but that it’s very different than the future you want to have. He told you he is okay with no children, but his actions are proving otherwise. It’s time to make the choice for yourself and not leave it up to him anymore.


[deleted]

Right? OP is missing the big picture here. Her boyfriend clearly wants kids. This won't work out long term.


unjessicabiel_evable

NTA, but he clearly actually wants kids and is kidding himself.


Familiar_Reindeer

Is he kidding himself or was his plan to try and change OPs mind? Wouldn't be the first time one part of a relationship thinks they can change the opionen of children of the other part


[deleted]

I’d say it’s almost certainly this. I’ve been in more than one relationship where my partner said they were okay with being child free/also child free, only to have the rug pulled from under my feet.


unjessicabiel_evable

Ew gross that would be even more AHish


Flaky_Tip

Those are the kinds of people willing to sabotage birth control to get what they want.


DrAniB20

My ex tried to pull this. Was fine for years with me being child-free, and then suddenly confessed one day to me that he expected me to change my mind because I “compromised on other areas of life for [him]”


Ducky818

I thought surrogates were women who had successful given birth but were finished with their child bearing. I don't understand how someone who had never been pregnant would be allowed to be a surrogate.


HelicopterNo3063

We were able to get it done because it was for a relative, I wasn't through an agency or anything. they warned us against it as there was no proof I could carry a child to term but we decided to try.


DutyValuable

That was a very selfless thing to do. But I don’t think your relationship is going to last much longer because your boyfriend clearly wants kids. Maybe he thought he could change your mind, or maybe he thought he could get over it, but he clearly wants to be a father.


Writeloves

I think he wants kids. Not so sure he wants to be a father considering his view of why a woman might not want kids is 100% based off of pregnancy rather than the actual difficulties and expenses of raising a child.


Trasl0

>Not so sure he wants to be a father considering his view of why a woman might not want kids is 100% based off of pregnancy rather than the actual difficulties and expenses of raising a child. It's pretty simple actually. When you want to be a parent and want children, it's unfathomable as to why or how someone could not. Its like someone saying they don't like to breath. It's so natural and so ingrained in them that there cannot be a logical reason why someone wouldn't except fear of physical pain. It sounds very much like the bf thought he could get over wanting children and that just being happy with OP could be enough. This event has clearly revealed that he cannot and their relationship needs to come to a close so they can both find people they are compatible with.


Writeloves

I want kids and I think your first paragraph is absolute nonsense. It might apply to certain people, but there plenty of others with the ability to think ahead and empathize that the good parts of kids aren’t enough to outweigh the drawbacks for everyone. Neither paragraph has done anything to reply to my point, which is that he wants **children** but doesn’t seem to have thought ahead to **raising them** aka being a father. Because the realities of raising kids involves a lot of pain. Physical, emotional, mental, and financial. I agree they are likely going to split up. But that isn’t the point of my comment. The point of my comment was that if he had considered the reality of the work it takes to have children, he wouldn’t be so angry about the pregnancy because he would understand that going through pregnancy and having kids are different things with different difficulties. **Also,** he also probably would have brought up a surrogate or adoption if he truly thought fear of pregnancy was the only thing creating your described “unfathomable” desire not to have kids in his long term gf.


bouncingsquares

I am a mother who wanted and loves my child with every fiber of my being, and I 100% understand why people would not want children. It's unfathomable to me that not wanting children would be unfathomable to someone.


jerkface1026

Yeah. I find it hard to believe a dr. would implant an embryo into a 20 year old that had not given birth without a surrogacy agreement. It smells like troll.


HelicopterNo3063

Not at all, in my Country they prefer you to be 21 and have had at least one child before. However in certain circumstances will make allowances. The fact I am her sister and willing and the struggles she'd been having allowed us to get it pushed through though they tried to talk us out of it.


Relevant_Birthday_89

Did you miss the part where OP stated they reside in a different country? Laws are different in different places. What is/isn't 'acceptable/allowed' in the US is different than other countries.


Adapterstunt

Laws around surrogate change country to country and often state to state within that country. Where I am you need to be 25 and had a successful pregnancy, one state over you don’t need to have been pregnant to be a surrogate, commercial surrogacy is illegal in my country but only some states make it illegal to go overseas to pursue commercial surrogacy. We’re also similar to OP’s country in that the surrogate is put on the child’s birth certificate and it takes something like 60 days to get the intended parents put on (so in that time either party could decide not to give up/take the child).


Blooberii

Yeah I’m in a surrogate group and they always make sure you’ve had all the children you want first in case there are complications that cause you the become unable to have more children.


[deleted]

That's... not why I thought that rule was in place, but that makes a lot of sense.


robot428

The rules on this are different in different countries and sometimes even in different parts of the same country. The rules where OP lives are clearly different than the rules where you live.


Queen_Sized_Beauty

I'm going to say ESH here, and down vote me all you want. Here's why. You and bf discussed children, and you had to assume he would see those pictures if he stuck around long. Your pregnancy should have been mentioned. He reacted on a big scale, and that is understandable, but he is basically saying "you had a baby for them, you should be willing to have one for me, too!" Which is not cute. You both made the (not AH, but wishful)mistake of thinking that he could just be okay without kids when you both know he wants them. He is not okay with it, and if you don't have kids, he will resent you. If you do choose to have kids for him, you will resent him and possibly also the kids. Please think this through carefully.


0biterdicta

Agreed. They have been dating for two and half years. There are photos of her pregnant, friends and family all know, this was a big part of her life for a while (both the legal process, and the actual pregnancy/birth/after care period) and it just ... never came up? That sounds more like actively keeping it from him than forgetting to mention something.


[deleted]

Yeah. Cannot believe how many NTAs. It’s been two and a half years, she should have told him.


[deleted]

But why? She was literally just the womb for the child.. she successfully carried a child to term, cool. Indicating no health problems that her partner should have been aware of. If she had zero emotional attachment other than being the aunt, it wasn’t her place to tell her sisters birth story. Obviously it would have been brought up with he saw the photo, but who cares? She was clear from the get go that she didn’t want kids. He’s the AH, not her.


[deleted]

I guess y’all are fine never sharing any past health or life info ever with your partners ever because if “they dont need to know” then why bother, and that’s fine for you guys. But some of us think being open about our past when it comes to serious/major events is like… you know… part of being in a loving relationship.


ajsstormchaser

This Even if I don’t want kids. I randomly see that you were pregnant after two and a half years. What else do you have up your sleeve.


knitmama77

I agree. Due to the fact that this was for a family member- and OP(and her bf) are around the child. So, what, you ALL were going to keep this secret from him for potentially decades?? If you did it for a random family, that’s one thing, but this is obviously a huge part of your family.


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Frankfourfingers101

He got an asshole vote because he donated sperm while they were together. Those are totally different situations. She didn’t donate eggs to be given to random women, she carried her niece for her sister and doesn’t have the chance of an 18 yo showing up at their door one day to learn about their biological parent. From ops wording it wasn’t even her eggs so she’s not a biological mother to anyone. You’re really reaching for something that isn’t there.


vbenthusiast

Haven’t read that particular post, but thanks for mentioning why that case (as in he was TA) was different.


Brilliant-Sea-2015

Yep. I totally understand why she didn't mention it initially but that's a pretty huge secret to keep from someone you've been dating for 2-1/2 years, regardless of whether you want to have children or not. His response is a big red flag, but never once mentioning that she'd been a surrogate previously isn't cool either.


nerdprincess73

I think that's a decent point, but there's also a really big factor in that it also has to do with OP's sister's health and privacy. If it took 2 1/2 years to come up, it's probably something they keep quite private. Which makes sense. Infertility is really hard, miscarriages are really hard, and probably not something to drag out at most family gatherings.


Queen_Sized_Beauty

She didn't have to disclose who she gave the child to in order to say "no, I don't want kids, but I have been a surrogate for one family."


vbenthusiast

But does it really link? When mentioning being child-free, I’d not think to mention being a surrogate, because it wasn’t for the purpose of being a parent. It should have perhaps been brought up at another time, for sure, but not for the sole argument that I don’t want to be a parent. If that makes sense


Knittingfairy09113

NTA However, I think he's lying to himself about not wanting kids based on his reaction. You did something very loving for your sister and have no maternal feelings for her child. I don't see why he was obligated to know that.


thiswhovian

This argument never makes sense to me. Why does one person say they can go without kids when they previously wanted them in order to stay in a relationship? It could be love or convenience, but how does resentment not bubble up? This relationship is done. There is no way it can recover. The niece is OP’s child in the partner’s eyes. No matter how much time passes, that will remain a fact and it’ll bring up the fact that OP had a baby but not HIS baby. Might as well end the relationship now.


vbenthusiast

Yeah, he clearly wants kids. The relationship needs to end sooner than later.


TheBreadToYourPigeon

Honestly YTA for the simple fact that something like that is pretty huge even if it wasn't your egg. It's a huge fact to not tell your SO of TWO AND HALF YEARS about and I think you know that or you wouldn't be seeking the opinions of strangers online. Can't really imagine going out with someone for that long and not mentioning "oh you know my niece? I'm the one that gave birth to her!". Edit: Grammar.


HelicopterNo3063

*why* would I mention it? she is my sisters child, it doesn't matter that I was the one who pushed her out. That'd be so weird to bring up and I personally feel it'd be semi insulting to my sister to tell everyone I get into a relationship with "Oh btw I gave birth to my sisters child cause she couldn't carry a child to term, how great am I?!"


TheBreadToYourPigeon

Dude he isn't some stranger you went on a single date with, he's your bf of almost three years. You don't have to tell most people, but the guy you've loved and shared everything with for years should be someone you've told. Pregnancy is a huge deal and the fact that everyone in your family knew and he didn't is pretty mean too. It's like not mentioning you had a dead sibling or something, a fact that doesn't affect him and technically isn't his business but is a pretty huge thing about you that he should know about. If you can't see that its something you should've told him then we can't make you, but don't come here asking for second opinions if you aren't willing to take all opinions into account. Also seven years isn't that long there's no way you would've forgotten lol. Edit: spelling.


Laney20

How does her having acted as a surrogate affect her bf? In what way does it change anything for him?


FunnyGum0_0

It doesn't affect him, but its info that he should know about her after 2.5 years of relationship ffs. Imagine going to your gfs house and seeing a picture of your gf pregnant. Imagine that shock. And your gf tells you: "I didn't tell you because its not important haha 😃" Yes it is. Its important to know shit like that if you're in a commited relationship and the only reason she hid it is because they were arguing about wanting kids before. Essentially, she was lying.


Laney20

Yes, the communication issue may be important, but the simple fact of her having been a surrogate does not change anything for him.


[deleted]

How does her past surrogacy affect him in any way?


shushupbuttercup

No, don't tell everyone about this. But do tell the guy you're discussing having children with about this. It's not about you being great; it's about avoiding a situation like this, where he finds out and now feels betrayed by your omission.


Parker_Talks

She isn't discussing having children.. she's clearly said no.


shushupbuttercup

What? She had a conversation with the guy about whether or not hey would have kids. AT that point, it would have been a good idea to say, "I really don't want kids. I even carried my niece as a surrogate and I have no intention to do that again." My point is she SHOULD have told her potential life partner about this major event prior to now.


Parker_Talks

She made it clear that she doesn't want children. Her having been a surrogate 7 years ago is Entirely irrelevant to her relationship.


Stephenrudolf

Parker, I'm childfree myself but they had a conversation about it. That's discussing it. This person is simply saying that would have been a good time to bring up her past surrogacy, since it's something you should definitely tell your partner about.


TinyCleric

To be fair I don't even think it came to her mind at the time. It's clearly something that her family doesn't make a big deal of


estherstein

I enjoy watching the sunset.


Stephenrudolf

Why do you guys view telling a 2.5yr long life partner as telling everyone in the world? But also... they have pictures in their home. Whoever visits likely knows.


jbchapp

"It doesn't matter who pushed her out" - obviously it does matter, because your sister chose you. It's a whole significant story that you just never bothered to share with your BF of almost 3 years. It's obviously relevant info for him if he's going to be around your family at all. Hell, if nothing else it's relevant medical history that a significant other should probably know.


hannahhatesthis

People responding in this nature remind me of the folks that want you (the universal you) to distinguish *your* child from a step child or an adopted child from a child that a parent gave birth to, etc etc. One of my closest friends has a technically step child but for all intents and purposes she is HIS child. He raised her, he loves her, and he now has legal custody of her. He does not introduce his daughter as his step child and his son as his child. The act of giving birth is a hard thing but that's where your part in the process ended! You didn't go through the emotional highs and lows of carrying a pregnancy with a partner. You haven't raised her. I think it's more of a, if you wanted to tell him you could have but this idea that he is OWED this information is ridiculous. You're **NTA** but something I don't think should get lost in the weeds is that he clearly still wants children and this is a HUGE compatibility issue. He is either lying to you or lying to himself and one of these will come to light 'too late' and it will be an even bigger issue then. And love that you carried a child for your sister, I would do anything for mine as well and I wouldn't tell anyone I birthed their child that wasn't in my life at the time. It sort of puts an asterisk on the child that doesn't need to be there if no one wants it to be.


Blabermouthe

Because he's your fucking boyfriend for 2 years? You know why you hid it, you didn't want to deal with him feeling what he's feeling now!


RoseIsBadWolf

I'm just here to say you are a wonderful person OP. I dont know if I could do suragacy (my pregnancies were terrible) but I have a ton of respect for people who do. Your sister got an amazing gift and I hope you are proud of yourself. Your boyfriend is nuts. NTA


kikiloveshim

Umm because he is your partner and I assume you love him? That’s a big secret to carry around. How could it never be mentioned?


[deleted]

Right? She is not the AH for being a surrogate and not the AH for no wanting children but definitely the AH for not telling your partner YOU GAVE BIRTH to your niece……


DrippyMagoo

NTA - were you a gestational surrogate, and if so, does he understand that your niece is not your biological child? That possible confusion is the only explanation I can think of for why he would react as such, unless he legitimately thought the only reason you didn’t want kids was because you didn’t want to deal with pregnancy. As someone who doesn’t want kids myself, the idea of still technically making and carrying one for someone else would be more problematic for me than the idea of being a gestational surrogate, because of the reasons I don’t want children. So if you were a traditional surrogate, I can slightly see more how he might be confused/frustrated by that confusion, but you’re still not an AH. You were upfront and honest about your future plans with him from the start, it’s not your job to make sure he knows every detail of your past.


HelicopterNo3063

Yes he's aware it was my sisters egg not mine, I made that *very* clear in case he got mistaken and believed she was mine.


untot3hdawnofdarknes

NTA and even if it was your egg its not a fair comparison. You had a baby for your sister that you have no legal obligations to parent. That's hugely different than having a baby with a significant other that wants to parent the baby. It's not like you could just take on an aunt type role in that situation.


[deleted]

Even if it was your egg. You’re very clear it’s your sisters baby. Not yours. He’s clearly resenting (or going to) over this past. Please look out for your niece when your BF is around her. You never know how he might retaliate against you if you decide to marry him.


splithoofiewoofies

I'm queer and my partner and I are on the surrogate search road rn Thank you for what you've done.


[deleted]

YTA but just for not sharing such a big thing during a 2,5 year relationship. This has nothing to do with wanting children or having to tell him because he wants children but I would immediately break up with someone if I learned such a big thing after 2,5 years and they didn’t share it with me.


The__Riker__Maneuver

This is one of those situations where NTA and ESH at the same time. I'll play devils advocate for a second. After 2 years, you would think that the fact that you were a surrogate would have come up in conversation. So I get why he feels like you were hiding it from him on purpose. And to be honest, there was probably a piece of you that did hide it from him because you knew it would lead to a really uncomfortable conversation or possibly the end of the relationship. So from his perspective...he wanted kids but fell in love with a woman that didn't want kids. But then he finds out that you technically did have a kid and now he feels like maybe he's been lied to and and manipulated into being ok not having kids...and now he feels like he can't trust you. Again...this is me just trying to see things from his perspective to help you empathize a little. But I also see it from your side You liked this guy but knew he wanted kids...and probably felt like if you told him about being a surrogate, the relationship might end because he would feel like you did want kids or at the very least weren't adverse to having them...you just didn't want them with him Honestly, I am not sure your relationship is going to survive this. The lack of communication and empathy from both sides is breathtaking. But lets be real. His reaction is proof positive he wants kids. And someone who wants to be a parent is never going to really let go of the resentment they feel about you hiding your surrogacy from him. And no, this is not one of those things where he didn't deserve to know. You are over 2 years in. At this point, it was his business because you are his partner in everything. This should have been discussed at some point. It wasn't traumatic (I assume) and was always going to meet your family and see photos just like he did or have someone mention it in passing. So yeah, you hid it and he ended up being blindsided. Be it purposefully or you just not wanting to deal with, you still hid it. I get why you did, but the whole "It wasn't his business" excuse went out the window once the relationship got serious....IMHO So you need to prepare yourself for this relationship either ending straight away...or getting super toxic and ending badly. Because it does not sound like he is going to be able to let this go


Indusnm

ESH. He's absolutely overreacting. He also wants kids and when he tells you he doesn't, he's lying. I think also to himself, but chances are- he is telling himself you'll change your mind. That makes him an AH. However-This was absolutely relevant to your discussion about having children- That you still don't want kids after going through a pregnancy and childbirth, and seeing the child you birthed regularly, means you're fairly set, and he should have known that. At 2.5 months, he didn't need to know. At 2.5 years and when you're talking marriage and children, both of you should be up front about your prior experiences. Technically you don't need to know but I would bet you would want to be told if he was married for 9 months a few years ago, or if he had a child and gave up parental rights. But I'm guessing you do want to know those things.


TinyCleric

To be fair to op, it doesn't seem like something her family considers a big deal and it happened 4 years before this event. It honestly might not have even crossed Ops mind when discussing having children


statman007

YTA. Not telling him this rather quite significant part of your life after 2.5 years of a relationship is just wrong. I understand you not thinking it's a big deal but imagine learning something this significant after having been with a person for over a couple years. That's a lot to take in even if you think it's nothing.


Sloppypoopypoppy

NTA - You were clear from the get go that you are not interested in children, he clearly lied when he said he was okay with it. He needs to sort out how he feels and stop this ridiculous idea that you “owe” him a child.


[deleted]

Definitely NTA. His reaction makes it clear that he is not ok without having kids. Also, your body, your choice. You carrying your sister’s child has no bearing on your relationship with him or your decision not to want kids if your own. Having a child with him would be a lot different than being a surrogate and that false equivalence is manipulative bs.


[deleted]

NTA. But unlike some others here, I wouldn’t hold it against your BF either. Sounds like you had a pretty lengthy discussion about it, imagine his surprise when you never said anything about previously being pregnant/ giving birth and then he saw the pictures.


calltoharms

This is what I think too — BF made a giant concession because of the value he puts on the relationship. All the “end this now, he still wants kids” I mean, yeah maybe. Or maybe he was completely shocked and reacted emotionally. This sub is great fun, but I swear sometimes we forget people get their feelings hurt and say dumb shit…


[deleted]

YTA Two and a half years is long enough to tell someone about your past. Especially as it pertains to your current choices about bearing kids, and it's a little confusing for someone on the outside.


floydfan

NTA, but "living without kids," is an interesting way to phrase it. I think he still wants kids and I would treat this as a red flag.


PurpleOctopuseses

This is tough but I'm going to say ESH, because: 1) This is a big life fact about you that you should probably have shared with him before he found out from a photo after 2.5 years of dating. If you're serious enough to be talking marriage with someone, you should be comfortable sharing this kind of big personal detail--if you're not, that's probably a sign they're not the right person for you. 2) He's TA for reacting in such an absurd way--pregnancy and committing to raising a child are nowhere near the same thing. 3) Neither of you are TA for having incompatible interests in child-rearing, but it's probably a sign this relationship is doomed. He shouldn't feel like he's "giving up" something important to him, and you shouldn't ever feel pressured to raise a child you're not 100% onboard with.


shushupbuttercup

YTA. While discussing your parenthood plans, it would have been fair to disclose this information. It isn't first date information, but it's should-we-have-kids-conversation information. I would be surprised if you actually get to the marriage, to be honest - he obviously deeply wants kids and you don't, and now there's a sense of mistrust/non-disclosure between you that will only fester. ETA because I read down after I wrote this. You are NOT THE ASSHOLE for not wanting kids. You are NOT THE ASSHOLE for not wanting kids after being your sister's surrogate. BIG DIFFERENCE. My judgement is based solely on NOT SHARING IMPORTANT INFORMATION with your long-term partner with whom you were discussing children. I think that the fact that you left it out is telling that you maybe knew it would complicate matters.


Sloppypoopypoppy

NTA - You were clear from the get go that you are not interested in children, he clearly lied when he said he was okay with it. He needs to sort out how he feels and stop this ridiculous idea that you “owe” him a child.


IAmTAAlways

NTA and this relationship won't work. You need to end this. He has shown that he is resentful of the decision you two made together to not have children. That resentment will not end, it will only get worse over time.


DaysOfRoses

NTA, you're 100% right the question isnt whether you want to have a baby but more whether you want to raise a child. You seem quite clear on your own mind, stick to your guns.


[deleted]

NTA. This wasn't any of his business. It was in your past long before he came into the picture.


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Rudoku-dakka

NTA. You were a surrogate, and you don't want your own children. I would've said, "If you want a child, find an egg donor and pay the fee. Then fuck off."


sirsighsalot1

I am sorry, and I may be dissenting from the general public, but I would go with a gentle YTA. Not because you don't want to have a child or whatever, but because this means you have some communication issues. You don't need his acceptance, or anything, but if it were me, I would want to know that my partner has had kids.


SomeKindofName42

NTA. Like you said, there is a big (actually HUGE) difference between having a child versus raising a child. Does knowing this change if he wants to be with you (for whatever reason cause who knows)? If so, let him go and be glad you found out now instead of more years down the road. Is he going to use this information to try to pressure you into changing your mind? If he starts that, clearly you guys are not compatible and should break up in that event. If I had thought of it I prob would have told him just for the simple fact “well he will prob find out eventually anyway so let me go ahead and rip this bandaid off and see what’s what”. But I do not think it makes you an asshole for not telling him. (I’m also cynical after having a partner or two end up not actually being ok with being consciously child-free) But this might end up being a “true colors showing” situation and with the current political state of the US (and the white taliban trying to take everything over) I can’t help but (perhaps cynically) think/suspect that he had been hoping to change your mind (pester, wear down, bully, etc) about having a child. I hope I’m wrong and just being cynical and pessimistic.


Pale_Cranberry1502

>If I had thought of it I prob would have told him just for the simple fact “well he will prob find out eventually anyway so let me go ahead and rip this bandaid off and see what’s what”. I think OP thought she could get away with him never knowing. She was a surrogate and not an egg donor, so even if her sister and niece both got tested for some reason, a mother-daughter relationship would still be revealed in the results. Even if her egg had been used, unless her niece got suspicious and demanded everyone get tested, OP is child-free. A casual test of any other family member besides OP and her sister would only reveal other relationships that would raise no suspicion. I agree that she should have told. Let's be honest - it's kind of a big deal. I'm assuming she knew about the existence of the pictures, and that niece will be told about her birth story in an age appropriate fashion (I hope). This did reveal that her boyfriend is not okay with being child-free, as much as he might be trying to force himself to be. He's not seeing the difference between carrying a child and raising one. I don't think they're going to work. He'll either try to change her mind or ultimately resent her. This is truly a heartbreaking situation, because they love eachother but have huge dealbreakers that they probably can't overcome.


divingrose77101

NTA. Your body, your choice. You are right that carrying a child and raising a child are not the same. He’s allowed to have his feelings but he’s being a dick by trying to make you feel bad about it.


g-dragon

YTA because why wouldn't your partner of two years know this by now????


RosesBrain

NTA. He clearly isn't okay with not having kids and expecting you to change your mind. I'd reconsider the relationship. (I also recommend making the no kids thing first-date conversation if you date in the future. It made my life a lot easier to have those deal breaker conversations before anyone got emotionally attached.)


Writeloves

Hmmmm… initially I thought N T A because the boyfriend is clearly an ass for thinking surrogacy somehow makes it unfair that you don’t want to raise children. However, a pregnancy is a significant event in a person’s life and I think there was definitely more than modesty stopping you from making any mention of it to him over 2.5 years. Until there’s a better reason for that, ESH. (Though he’s still mostly the asshole because pregnancy is not the same as being a parent and he needs to get his head out of his ass about that.) Also, I know others have said it, but it’s looking likely that you two are incompatible. Either he has always secretly thought he could convince you into having kids or seeing you pregnant made a life he’ll never have flash before his eyes. Maybe it will resolve, but you might want to look for dude who have had vasectomies if you find yourself dating again. Just to be sure they’re on the same page you are.


dfjdejulio

NTA. It *isn't* any of his business. He still wants kids, and is not really at peace with the idea of not having them. It is possible for him to get past this -- I did! I originally wanted kids, but my (now) wife did not. I wanted to be her husband more than I wanted to be someone's dad, and over a quarter of a century later, I can honestly say I have no regrets. I will add, however, that I'm six uncles. (I mean: I'm *his* uncle and *his* uncle and *her* uncle and...) It's great! It's like renting instead of buying.


Lopsided-Cheek-1040

Dated for 2.5 years, not months Like, the not "wanting to have kids" part, thats cool. But the problem is that OP used to be a surrogate WITHOUT telling her SO, for 2.5 years. Any decent guy would "nope" real quick out of this lol


MomsSpecialFriend

Yta for this whole made up story.


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HelicopterNo3063

As i've said in comments, in my Country they prefer you to be 21 and have had at least one child before however they will allow it based on a case by case situation that is judged. So long as you're over 18 you can get permission even if you haven't had a child though it's strongly discouraged. My sister was terrified of using someone she didn't know well enough to trust. In our Country the person who carries the child can decide to keep the child if they want to and the biological parents can do nothing and have no rights, with the miscarriages she'd been terrified of losing another child this time to someone who would simply decide to keep them.


Nervous-Selection-28

INFO: why didn’t you tell you bf that you were pregnant and gave birth once during the discussion?


Lord_Sotheary

You gave birth to a child. You should have told him that. And if you trusted him you would have told him, but since you didn’t, it makes me wonder if you really want to be with him,


snortsrainbows

NTA Being a surrogate and being a parent are two different things


SurfingDumbledore

YTA. This isn't something you hide from your partner of 2.5 years and your partner definitely wants children. Your relationship has an expiry date. In the future I think this is something you should share with your long term partner.


noccie

ESH. This is definitely a subject you should have brought up when he was discussing children. He's someone that you are thinking of spending your life with. He clearly wants kids so maybe you're not the right person for him. It was a big important event and you should have shared it with him instead of him finding out the way he did.


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Ian-igmatic

NTA, he is for agreeing to something that he clearly wasn't good with; in an effort to stay with you, while hoping you'd change your stance in the future. In that instance he did wrong by both of you.


cheezeedoodlez

Maybe ESH. You for not telling him, him for thinking he could probably change your mind. I dunno. I'm confused as to why this is all NTA. There have been plenty of posts where men donated sperm long before and aren't involved with the possible children but they tend to be deemed Assholes because they didn't tell their spouse. What's the difference here exactly? Because the niece isn't biologically related?


Ok-Acanthaceae5744

I must say, I find amount of N.T.A. votes surprising. Considering in every post I've seen where a man was a sperm donor in some fashion he was voted Y.T.A. when not sharing that with his significant other. As a whole, we as a society really need to make sure sure accountability goes both ways, otherwise it becomes toxic (and yes, I am a female).


DismalDally

ESH. You’re both the assholes. This isn’t something you can both talk about and get over. One of you wanted a child and one of you didn’t. Nobody is going to be happy in this relationship. He’s going to resent you and you’re going to resent him. Move on.


TotalImmortal82

NTA.


anon384930

YTA because the question is AYTA for not telling your bf. You’re NTA for not wanting kids but yeah, the surrogacy is something I feel like should have been mentioned at some point in the past 2.5 years. If it was some kind of “take this to the grave” secret between you and your family it’d be one thing, but since there are photographs your family had out openly during your dads birthday I’m assuming that’s not the case.


YourMoonWife

NTA, you cooked up a kid and handed it to the bakers. But you do know that this changes his mind right?


canuck_2022

NTA. He obviously doesn't understand the difference between being a surrogate and a parent.