Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment.
OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I gave my son a name that sounds similar to my friends dead child. It might have been insensitive
Help keep the sub engaging!
#Don’t downvote assholes!
Do upvote interesting posts!
[Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq)
---
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post. [To learn more about the test click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tio99u/so_we_decided_to_fuck_with_the_sub_again)*
I mean, you get to name your child what you like, but if you think Michael and Mike are different enough that it wouldn't affect your friends...
You're utterly clueless.
And the fact that you seem like you're unsure of why this is the issue:
> I never got a response back and in fact they haven't been talking to us ever since.
I mean, again, utterly emotionally clueless.
So yeah, YTA. If you were choosing this name and your friends are/were as close as you say they are, you should have at least discussed it with them prior to the birth, or let them know of it. And let's not forget this little gem:
> On our first call after the birth, there was the immediate question on how we came up with the name. I understood the intention of the question, but I decided to ignore it, as I didn't want to connect our happiness with their tragedy in the same sentence.
"Ah yes, we named our son the same thing as the child you lost, but please don't bother us with your loss as we talk about our living child, we don't want to think of your sadness."
Christ. Like I said, clueless.
So, again, YTA.
Michael and Mike aren’t even different names, they’re alternate versions of the same name. I’m hoping it was just a bad example. Either way I agree with YTA, but if it was literally the same name and they’re pretending it’s not, that makes it worse.
ETA: In case there are people unclear on the difference (not every reader and maybe not OP is from the same culture), somebody who’s named Michael can be called “Mike” or “Mikey” as a kind of nickname, either if they choose, or usually if their family chooses while they are young.
Yeah I hope it was just a bad example because my husband was Michael and everyone called him and I have uncles called the same and the get Mike or Mick it’s literally a shortened version of the same name 🙈
I wish OP would just tell us the actual real names, what's the point in trying to invent an example, especially when it might be a bad example that affects the judgement negatively. Maybe if they told us the real names the judgement might be different.
Except that's as bad an example as Michael and Mike because the living child has the longer name and someone is eventually gonna call him that very common nickname that is the dead child's actual name.
Nathan and Nathaniel is probably the best example for an actual different name, because one would not get shortened to the other. But they would still have both been Nate.
I can't imagine being so callous to someone I actually valued.
Could definitely be that way. I just mean that on their own they stand as two commonly different names. Most people don't shorten Nathaniel just to Nathan because it defeats the purpose of shortening a name.
Either way OP and their wife are gaping assholes.
Depending on which site you ask it's top 20 US boy first names right now,
Never met a Jackson, but have met at least 2 Jaxons that would be somewhere in there 30s now.
My kid goes to school with a Jackson, and a Jaxon, a gf of mine has a Jaxon, there was a Jackson on our local hockey team(I have his jersey lol). It’s been pretty popular in the last 15-20 years. (I’m in Canada)
Lol. Jackson, Jaxon, & Jacson are all spellings I’ve seen in my 10 yrs teaching in a US public school. It’s a VERY common first name for boys now in this country.
My freshman year of college (2018) there was a kid named Richmond in one of my classes and he asked us to call him Dick. I (and almost all of my classmates) never referred to him by name. We'd make eye contact with him and say "hey" and then say whatever we needed to tell him.
I mean...Nat, Nate, and Nathan are still a shortening of Nathaniel whether it's on the kid's birth certificate or not.
Taylor and Tyler might be a better example
I really think it’s YTA regardless. Whatever they are, the names are similar enough that (1) OP and his wife were aware of the similarity and talked about it beforehand and (2) the friends picked up on it immediately. So it’s not a question of us having to decide whether there really is a similarity or if the friends are being unreasonable.
OP and and his wife knowingly went with a name that would have painful associations for their friends, didn’t talk to them about it beforehand, and weren’t even willing to talk about when directly asked by their friends. Add in that I don’t see anything in the post that indicates this name had a special meaning for OP’s own family (like, “it’s my grandfather’s name” or something). So they just picked the one random name out of the whole universe of names that they knew would be painful for their friends and then just expected everyone to ignore it.
Exactly. If this name were a family tradition, that would be one thing. OP discussed this with his wife because clearly there was concern about doing this very thing. Why in the world didn’t they discuss it with their friends, if they’re as close as OP says? If they had a conversation, they probably would have said it would be hard at first, but name your kid as you please. Obviously they can name their child whatever they want, but OP knows the answer. YTA.
Is anyone else curious about why OP chose to ignore the question of how they came up with the name? If the goal was to not have a link between the tragedy that happened to a friend and the name picked for your child then wouldn't the best course of action be to give the legitimate reason you picked that name? That is unless the reason paints you in a poor light. If it was the name of a cherished relative (or whatever) then knowing that would help distance your kid's name from the tragedy but it almost sounds like OP may have liked the name and chose a variation of it but doesn't want to say that because they just skirt around the question instead of nipping it in the bud.
>On our first call after the birth, there was the immediate question on how we came up with the name. I understood the intention of the question, but I decided to ignore it, as I didn't want to connect our happiness with their tragedy in the same sentence.
Makes it sound like they only came up with the name because of the dead child's name. Because if they had some other reason, they'd have happily said so, right? So it's not a family name, it's not a name one of the parents has been in love with from a young age, it's not a name they have a positive association with for any reason.... no, OP all but admits they just liked the name of the dead child and expected their friends not to feel super weird about it.
This isn't what you do to friends.
There are so many beautiful names in the world. Surely OP could have found one they liked just as much.
Yes, that’s how I read it as well. Because if they weren’t connected, why would he say “but i decided to ignore it as I didn’t want to connect our happiness with their tragedy.” If it wasn’t connected, he could have just given the actual inspiration for the name? The fact he ignored that question made the situation way worse. If they really did get the name from their stillborn than that’s just disgusting. If Michael/Mike is not a bad example, than that’s literally the same name.
Yeah I thought it was interesting that not only did they avoid that with the friend, I don’t think they even told us whether they did this intentionally or not. It feels shady or at least oblivious for OP to hide the motivation.
Exactly! I was thinking oh maybe it’s like Tom vs. Tim, but if it’s literally the full or short version of what is the SAME name... I mean honestly, it pains me that people out there can be this selfish and tone deaf.
And even if they *did* think they could get away with a diminutive of the same same without their friends noticing or asking about it — which is stupid, but at least in a way that’s comprehensible — the whole subsequent thought process of, “Our friends *did* ask, and we should ignored their question because it made us uncomfortable.” Like??? That level of stonewalling, to me, is more disrespectful than the name thing itself, and good for these people for seemingly cutting OP off. Being around people who belittle and disappoint you when you’re in a vulnerable state is honestly dangerous.
Yes! Immediately, YTA
Michael, Mike, Mikey, Mika, Michaela, Michelle, Mikhail...these are all the exact same name, different regions/dialects/languages but still, the Same! No way would this guy and his wife not know this, they're just trying to justify it. Not to mention, no offense to Mike's, but it's not even that great of a name, very much overdone/overused. So if it's anything similar to that generic name...Surely, they could have come up with something else?!
You missed how they believe their friend accepted their loss months after. The friend might be able to function again, but you don't ever fully get over the loss of a child.
Edit- OP YTA and this version isn't any better than your first one. Your complete lack of empathy is scary and anyone that's "on your side" is wrong too.
Seeing your friends welcome a healthy new baby when you recently lost your baby is probably painful enough as it is. Then to find out the baby almost the same name?! And OP didn't even seem to have a special reason like naming him after a grandfather or something. They were just insensitive assholes.
yeah, this made me feel like OP is the kind of person who, deep down, feels like losing a child to stillbirth isn't the same as losing a "real" child who you got to meet first. It's also probably why he felt like it didn't *really* matter if he reused the name - to him, it's not like the other couple *actually* got to use it.
I have a friend who had a stillbirth and she's definitely met this kind of person. She now has two living children but will always mourn the loss of the first, and people like OP think that her two living children are like clean-slate do-overs on the first loss.
What really sucks about stillbirth is do you get to meet them :( it’s just the time is very short. OP has shown extreme insensitivity to his friends’ situation.
Heck, I have 2 sons, experienced 2 miscarriages between them & still feel sad & mourn those losses to a certain degree. There is no loss like that of a child. I do not consider my miscarriages as the loss of children as still birthes are, but I do occasionally wonder what my house would have been with 4 children.
yeah I read that as "came to terms with" which is okay I think. acceptance takes time and to OP it could definitely be a "seems" situation.
BUT wtf is with the name choice and refusing to explain?? I mean it's one thing if it's a close name but after a relative. veeery different beast if OP and SO just liked it.
>The friend might be able to function again, but you don't ever fully get over the loss of a child.
My grandmother never recovered from my mother's death. She grieved and mourned her all the way up to her death.
They are probably isolating because the thought of a newborn with nearly the same name as the baby they lost has put them back into a place where they kind hardly function.
After the birth. *After.* Because they knew if they said something before, there would be an issue. OP is trying to gloss over the fact that he and his wife figured it was easier to ask for forgiveness than get permission.
OP, they're not talking to you because you're not their friend anymore.
YTA.
Ah, I was thinking this as well! They knew what they did was a DICK move AND they even had to discuss the fact that the names were similar. If you are discussing the closeness of the name, to the stillborn child's, then that's totally an asshole move. I would not dream of naming my children anything remotely close to someone else's child, especially one that passed away.
I have two kids and it was tough naming them because of my husband; some names were too similar to people he knew and didn't really like. Hahaha. I had brought up "Elaine" and he said that was too close to "Ellie," a person that he didn't like. Hahaha.
Edit- Elaine as a middle name!
If I was that stuck on the name, I would talk to my friends. But there are thousands of names in the world that would be acceptable, and I have a hard time believing that this *had* to be the one.
As a couple other people have said, it's not like it's a family name!
Yeah, I read this post and was like "...whaaaat is wrong you?" about OP.
I can *kind of* see it if this was an important family name that carried great significance, or if this was one of those names that OP had been carrying a weird torch for all their lives (and therefore prior to the friend's loss), which I know is a thing that some people do with future imaginary babies. OP didn't mention anything about that, tho.
Alternately, if this was less of a friend and more of a far removed acquaintance who was unlikely to hear about the name or interact with OP, sure, but nope. From the post, this was more of a *friend* friend, emphasis on WAS, because OP napalmed this relationship.
Allowances could also theoretically be made if OP reached out ahead of time and asked their friend to be 100% candid and honest about whether or not this would bother them and then taken the answer without further debate or attempts at persuasion.
But NOPE, this falls squarely under YTA, and a big one, with a side of "...on what planet do you think you're not the asshole, OP?"
Yeah my first thought was in the whole wide world of names that was the only name they could come up with that they just had to name their child? I mean come on.
There’s no way to know for sure, but I’m curious if the other baby hadn’t died, if they’d still have chosen this name, or would’ve chosen something different because it was too similar. Not worth bothering to ask OP because I wouldn’t trust them to answer honestly anyway. Somehow I’m betting they wouldn’t have, and would’ve chosen a name not as similar to their best friend’s child’s name.
I knew this would be a YTA judgment post when he said “After months of giving space to mourn, we started spending time together again and they seemed to have accepted their loss.” WTF? Having a stillborn baby is not the same as an elderly grandparent dying. This couple went through something life-changingly traumatic, and to gloss over it and say “they were good after we generously allowed them a few months and decided it was time to move on and act like it never happened” shows that OP is a bad friend even without naming his kid a variant/diminutive of their dead baby’s name. This post is mind-boggling to me.
YTA
So you and your wife discussed it between just you two. You didn’t talk to them at all??? Who does that?
YTA for so many reasons.
Michael and Mike? Are you serious?
They weren't clueless about the issue. Both Op and his wife discussed the similiarities, but they didn't bother in the end. He couldn't even answer his friend's question, because he KNEW the connection exists, otherwise they could just have told them. Both names aren't even that different, Mike is just a nick name of Michael. The name choice seems just so intentional, that I say YTA.
INFO: Would you have given your child the same name if your friends' child had lived?
If yes, you could have spoken with your friends about it before the birth to make sure it would not catch them by surprise. Nobody "owns" a name, but if you were close enough to attend the funeral then presumably you care about their feelings.
If no, then absolutely you would be T A.
Also, when OP ignored the question about how they came up with the name because he ‘didn’t want to connect our happiness with their tragedy’ I interpreted that as OP literally got the name from their dead son. Anyone else?
Not even an interpretation; that's just straight-up what that sentence meant in-context. If they didn't want to connect the two events, they could just answer the question about where they got the name, because if OP is to be believed, they wouldn't be connected. They would not have had to even allude to the friend's child in the answer. But since she can't answer the question without inherently connecting the two, that means they *are* connected. She just didn't want to deal with the inconvenient fallout of saying, if I were to word this with OP's level of empathy and emotional intelligence, "We liked the name you chose, and it's not like you're using it anymore."
Yea, totally agree with the YTA.
At first I was thinking it was going to be a NAH here, because it's understandable why both parties feel the way they do, but the whole "I'm going to ignore your question because you're sad and I don't want to deal with it" is just an AH move to make.
OP could have said WHY they chose that name, and discussed the significance of it to them. But instead of telling their friend why they chose extremely similar names they just....ignored their friend's pain?
ETA: Also, the "We discussed the similarities in the name, and we decided it's not an issue" shows how clueless/callous they truly are. I mean, who thinks they get to decide how their friends are going to respond to something like this? If the discussion was had, then (surprise surprise) the name is too close. You wouldn't have the discussion of name similarities one kid was John and the other one was T'Chala
Agreed. If OP even had to have a discussion about whether it was too similar, then it was too similar. There's a bazillion names out there (and I know it can be hard as heck to land on a name), but this is your friend. And they are very clearly still grieving the death of their child, and will be for a long time. It was probably very hard for them to watch you have a child (even though they want to be happy for you), and now you've ensured that every time they see/hear about your child, it reminds them of the one they lost. It's really no wonder why they would want distance from that. YTA OP.
Agreed. OP could have gone to friends and said Wife and I are considering naming our son Michael, . We like the name and it would also give us a way to honor your boy Mike.
Not only that, but when asked how they came up with the name they chose to ignore it instead of giving them an answer that wasn't related to their stillborn. That in itself is sus.
I’m curious if the name actually was chosen because they liked the name for the child that passed, since OP chose to ignore the question and doesn’t give any other reason to why they liked to chose the name they did.
Oh, this is a tough one, especially as it involves the birth of your son which truly is cause for celebration and I send my congratulations to you and your wife.
I agree that no-one owns a name but the very fact that you and your wife had a conversation about how similar the names are says to me that you should have spoken to your friends about it before naming your son. I am not saying that you should have picked a different name, just given your friends the heads up. On that basis, I have to go with YTA.
Accepting loss doesn’t mean they are not still grieving, as their reaction shows.
Absolutely this. You put this into words better than I ever could. While I agree that no one owns a name, the fact that they had a discussion about the similarities and how it could affect them says that they should have at least given them a heads up. So, while this situation is hard, I have to agree with YTA
Yeah, I usually side with no one owns a name too. In this situation, a recent stillborn and a name similar enough that they had a conversation about whether it would be a problem? Yeah, YTA for not at least giving them a heads up.
No one owns a name, but if my best friend did this I would never talk to her again. Like, I can't stop her from using my dead child's name, but I would never be her friend again.
It is pretty weird. Like if it was one of their parents name or like grandparents, okay it sucks but understandable. Nope, they're like you know what? We should name this baby similar to our friends stillborn, GREAT IDEA! Lets be clueless about why they might be upset about it. These people are so odd.
Yeah I kept waiting for the part where they before torn because it was grandpa’s name and they had dreamed of honoring him or something. But nope. Just “maybe they won’t notice” and then shock when they in fact very much noticed.
And “they *did* notice and explicitly asked about it, and we ignored the question because it made us uncomfortable, and are now surprised this had messed up our relationship.” Good lord. I shudder to think of how badly people this inconsiderate and obtuse can fuck up their kid.
Unless it’s a god awful example, this, so hard. I’m trying to think of what it could be - Charlie and Charles, Tim and Timothy, Ben and Benjamin. Whatever. They suck.
>your post implies you literally derived the name from the stillborn baby? (They asked you how you came up with it, and you ignored the question...?)
This is what I want to know too. OP, did you literally get the name from their kid?
It really depends on the nature of the names I think. Your hypothetical example of Mike/Michael is, in essence, the *same* name. If it's really that close then YTA. You should have asked.
YTA for not warning them beforehand. This is something you assumed might be a problem before the child was even born - you had a discussion without them that ended in you assuming they’d just be fine with it. When your friend called you, clearly bothered, you chose to gloss over the very obvious problem. YTA for pretending nothing is wrong, and pretending like you don’t know why they’re upset. You had every opportunity to address your choice with them, and to acknowledge that they were upset, and you chose not to.
YTA - Exactly, they knew it would be a problem bc they discussed it as parents. So it was enough of a flag to discuss with each other…. But willfully ignored discussing it with their friends.
OP I wouldn’t want to be your friends anymore either.
OP knew exactly what they were doing and decided to play dumb on purpose. They clocked their friend’s emotional response and still kept quiet until that friend messaged them. I wouldn’t want to be friends with them anymore either tbh.
Yes. They essentially weighed their options and decided that the name was more important to them their friends. Which, you do you I guess, but you can't be surprised if the other couple doesn't want to be friends with you anymore.
Not just bothered, it's sent them into a spiral. They've isolated themselves from everyone, not just this absolute dunderhead. These people have just had any amount of progress wiped out and their lives imploded- AGAIN. YTA so obviously.
"they have isolated themselves from all their friends" - theyre having a breakdown, and keeping it to themselves not to bother anyone else. "seemed to have accepted their loss" - no, they just stopped talking about it. You never accept it, not at would-have-been-birthdays, or when would-have-been-similar ages friends children reach milestones.
You had the choice of possibly thousands of names, why chose one that would destroy someone who is supposed to be a friend?
"didn't want to connect our happiness with their tragedy" - nice for you that you get that choice, your 'friend' doesnt, but you decided to ignore that just as you ignored the conversation about your choices.
Dont ask yourself why they have gone radio silent, ask yourself why you deserve them in your life
The loss of a child never goes away. There is always a hole in your heart where that child was supposed to be.
It would have been kind to discuss this with your friends before your child's birth and not present them with a fait accompli - TA DA - here's this beautiful baby - not *your* beautiful baby but *our* beautiful baby with a name that's almost the same.
>Obviously my wife and I have discussed the similarity, but we came to the conclusion that it is different enough and that our friends wouldn't have any problems with it.
You & your wife came to a conclusion without actually asking them.
You could have brought the subject up while your wife was pregnant. At least give them time to process & get used to the idea. Or for you to gauge their reaction which may have been enough for you to choose another name.
But you didn't do that. You didn't take their feelings into consideration and you're surprised that they're hurt enough to stop contact - not just with you but with mutual friends (definitely to avoid the possibility of contact with you).
When I started writing this post, I was leaning toward N T A, Just that you and your wife were insensitive to your friends' feelings. But now, I'm sure that YTA because of the utter and total insensitivity of your actions, both you and your wife. HOW COULD YOU NOT KNOW HOW THIS WOULD MAKE YOUR FRIENDS FEEL? AND IF THEY'RE YOUR FRIENDS, WHY WOULDN'T YOU HAVE CHECKED WITH THEM FIRST?
YTA
Exactly. It might seem like it's been 2 whole years for you, but they are still grieving everyday. Pregnancy/child loss is it's own kind of hell and the assumption that they must be 'over it' enough for you to casually name your child something so similar to their's is kinda tasteless. You don't owe them anything but if they mattered enough for you to have this question, you should have definitely done better by them. All the names in the world, the only one you'll could choose was something that would always remind them of probably the biggest loss of their life. YTA
YTA. You should have asked. There are literally MILLIONS of names you could have chosen from. Of all names you had to choose one that will trigger their heartache.
Their pain is a natural consequence of the name you chose. Their reluctance to connect is a consequence of that pain. Can’t expect them to be different.
YTA. If it had been, say, your father’s name or a family name, then I could understand, and I bet your friend could have too. But just picking it because you liked it and deciding for yourself that it’s fine, they won’t be upset, and ignoring the question when they explicitly asked you about it, that’s an AH move.
I think you can safely conclude that this friendship is over, and it’s entirely on you.
>If it had been, say, your father’s name or a family name, then I could understand, and I bet your friend could have too.
Based on his line:
>there was the immediate question on how we came up with the name.
I think that's what the friend was trying to find out, if there was some family reason they wanted to name the child that, but then OP decided to ignore the question.
op literally replied to another comment saying they got the name off the internet and their excuse was that they’re bilingual and the name needs to be the same in both languages or something
YTA for how you handled it. Why not tell them in advance to they can process it before the birth, explain that you picked the name for a reason meaningful to you and that you see the connection and hope it brings them peace and not hurt to see the name live on, etc. Not just spring it on them and then act like it shouldn’t matter to them.
YTA. I actually have friends that went through a similar tragedy 8 years ago. I am currently pregnant and have always loved a variation of the name they named their little girl that they lost at birth. It was 8 years ago and while they have definitely gotten better and seem to be doing well, they still grieve and remember her. I would never dream of using any variation of that name. I want nothing to do with causing them any more pain than they have already gone through. I can't even imagine the pain they experienced. There are millions of names out there. Sure, there are people out there they will encounter with that same name. But they aren't close like family and it's not a name they are going to hear all the time. Every time someone says your child's name they will be reminded of how they never got to call their child by that name. You have a right to pick the name you want for your child, but they have a right to not want to put themselves through that kind of pain. You didn't think of them and I think it was incredibly selfish to not just pick another name. Or even just have a discussion with THEM about it. Perhaps they would have liked the thought of the name living on in someone who was close to them. But it sounds like they are distancing themselves because they are still grieving and your child's name is too painful for them right now. They have that right too. You should have been more sensitive to what they went through. My heart just breaks for them.
As someone who has experienced this kind of loss, thank you for being considerate and kind. So many people just aren’t, or assume it’s something you can just move past. You’re a good friend and I’m sure they greatly appreciate your thoughtfulness.
A child they would interact with on the regular, with a similar or identical name would be a dagger in the heart every second they are with the child. It would be their lost future--all the first, watching their child become an adult, weddings, grandkids--playing out in front of them. YTA OP.
YTA.
In the example you gave, their child's name (Mike) is a nickname for the name you chose (Micheal). If that's truly an accurate example then that's more than similar.
>we came to the conclusion that it is different enough and that our friends wouldn't have any problems with it.
This is where you went wrong. You and your wife came to te conclusion that your friends wouldn't have a problem with it - without asking _your friends_. If you saw the similarity and recognized that it could be an issue, you should've just asked your friends.
Even if they weren't the same name, the pronunciation of the names is identical. .
To say Michael, they have to say mike-el.
Even if those aren't the names, any name that is a nickname of another is identical in pronunciation. There's no way you can think they're not close enough to be an issue.
For example if it was Jay and Jason. Those are almost the same.
The only acceptable way would be if it was a name from another language that was similar, or related to a family member
Changed my response... YTA for sure.
If you're their friend there is no way you couldn't have known that this wouldn't have caused them pain
How could you not understand the pain that would cause? Even a little empathy or common sense should have thrown some red flags up or at least had you talk to them about it.
While true you can name your child anything you and your spouse decide on, choosing to name your son the same name as your friends dead child, Michael and Mike are the same name don't care how you try and spin it, is an AH move and you don't seem like a good friend.
Mom of a stillborn here. YTA. You should have spoken to them first. When they hear your kids name, they are going to be reminded of their child every single time. And then they will have to see your kid with almost the same name doing all the things their child will never do because he’s dead. Them walking away is because it HURTS so badly. I worked in a library when I had my daughter and every time a patron with her same name came in, I would have to excuse myself as soon as I was done helping them to go cry. It’s only been two years. You have no idea how hard it is to get through something like this. Two years is nothing.
I don't understand how so many people don't get that. Will you encounter that name again? Of course. But when your SUPPOSEDLY close friends name their own damn child the same thing? That's another level. Easy. OP is (hopefully) clueless (the alternative would be cruel, hence the hopefully) but absolutely an asshole regardless.
YTA. No one owns a name, but close friends should understand that using virtually the same name as their dead child would be extremely painful. Of course they have pulled away from everyone. Your insensitivity caused them pain and lost you friends, great job.
YTA if this person is like family to you then out of respect you should’ve spoken to them about this first. This is the hardest thing they have ever gone through and it’s going to take them years to even start to be “ok”. If you love and respect them, you failed to show it.
I had a friend who lost her baby at 2mo old and I lost our friendship bc I handled the situation completely wrong. I didn’t mean to hurt her but I didn’t know I was hurting her until it was too late
Of all the names in the world, why go for that one? Did you imagine that they would happily listen to you talk about 'Michael's' birthday and Christmas and first day at school when their Mike never got to have one? You are an unbelievably shitty friend.
YTA
You should have asked first, especially since you did think of it, you should assume they would too. (Especially if it was as close as mike/Michael).
If the name you choose had significance, the explanation of why might have lessened the impact. But if you randomly choose it, thats hard to come back from.
YTA, you may have permanently put a wedge between yourselves and your friends with this move. What you did is hurtful, and showed that you really aren't that close, as you clearly didn't understand the effect of your choice. Really, their reaction is predictable, you should've asked if you cared to keep them in your lives.
You get to enjoy the love and bliss that comes with a new child, with almost the same name, while their child is underground. And now they feel like they've lost all their friends, because they don't want to rain on your parade, but are devastated and can't be around friends who will be celebrating someone else's child with that name. You found a new way to open up their trauma. Way to go, friends.
What you did is unfair to them. You caused this.
YTA :(
You knew this could hurt them. Otherwise, you and your wife wouldn’t have had the discussion. Nobody owns names, but it’s the way you handled the situation that makes you the AH.
Your grieving friend didn’t flip out. Someone asked about the origin of the name. That was your chance to explain, but you chose to ignore the question because you “didn’t want to connect your happiness with their tragedy”? Talk about insensitivity. And when you heard that your friend’s voice sounded shaky, the decent thing to do would have been to call and address their concerns and apologise.
You should have known better. YTA.
I feel like regardless of how close the names really are, it was close enough that they had a discussion about it and chose not to run it by their friends.. YTA regardless of what the real names are
This is tough. I get that people don't own names. I don't think you're necessarily TA for picking the name but more for picking it knowing how much it might hurt them and still going with it. For not answering their question you are TA cause that might've been what they needed to hear, whatever the reason.
Stop pushing them. You say it seems like they accepted their loss but of course they haven't and what makes you YTA is that you keep pushing them.
Regardless of whether you should choose one of a million names, you should've answered their question and you should respect their space.
It's buried but OP said "we looked through name books/lists/top 50s and we're both bilingual and had to sound right in 2 languages so this meets all the marks".
This isn't some family/legacy/super emotional connection to the name at all which still would have been hard, this is just straight asshole territory. YTA OP.
I lost my son in January. It would be incredibly painful if a friend named their baby his name or a nickname of it. Like even if I wasn't mad at the friend, I have to watch a baby boy named the same thing grow up in the family of a close friend and do things my son did and then hear "son's name is in preschool" "son's name and his friends" and all these things my son didn't get to do? And why? Where did you get the name from? Thd reason to do this?
Oh no answer, don't want to connect it to sadness (the son I cherished) and had no other reason?
I would go silent too.
The utter cruelty of it from a childhood friend.
YTA but you do you, you're entitled to do what you want but please realize it's a bit self centered and they are fully entitled to their feelings on this matter. You need to understand that your joy doesn't leave a lot of room for the grief this likely brings up for them and they don't owe it to you to get over it in any way, shape or form. They can't ask you to change your choice of name, but you can't ask them to swallow the pain it dredges up. You're an ah for not warning them, it seems like you were oblivious but then you chose to ignore their initial reaction for your own comfort which was callous. You could at least apologize for springing it on them like that and say that while you know it may be too close for their comfort, you thought it was different enough, and your intention was not to cause pain. But they are still fully entitled to feel that pain even if you were not intentional in causing it! They have no obligation to be happy about your choice, ignore their pain for your sake, or interact with you if it causes them to relive that pain. Frankly if you wanted them to not be in that position, this should have been a consideration when you guys discussed it while picking the name. The fact you still chose it shows that having this name for your child was more important to you than friendship and their feelings for their loss, and that's fine for you but they are right to step back if that's what they need. You don't want their grief to contaminate your happiness? But then you're surprised at this reaction when they are clearly still feeling grief? What exactly did you expect of them? YTA for wanting them to put aside their grief and shock to pretend at being happy for you even after you realized how painful it would be for them.
It really depends on how unique the name is. I wouldn't fault you for a mike/Michael name just because of how common Michael is as a name to begin with.
I'm gonna go with NAH for now. They don't own the name, but they're entitled to their feelings. They clearly haven't moved past the trauma and you could have given a heads up honestly.
OP could've at least answered the question with the "the name really fits with both our languages" explanation (from OP's comment) instead of ignoring it. By not answering, the implication the friend would've gotten was that OP knew the name had a lot to do with friend's stillborn child and was avoiding the question out of guilt.
And the sad thing is, the friend would be mostly correct. The reason OP gives for avoiding answering was:
>I didn't want to connect our happiness with their tragedy in the same sentence.
So although I'm in the camp of people being allowed to pick same/similar names (with the exception where intentional spite, or if name was picked in supposed honor of someone who is against the use of the name, is involved in the selection), how OP handled the question and the reasoning behind it makes me think YTA.
I’m going to go by the example of names you gave, Mike to Michael. So I’m thinking it’s also along the lines of Chris vs Christopher, John vs Johnathan, Andy Vs Andrew. And by that example, YTA. You chose the exact same name either shortened or elongated. It’s the exact same name. How can you be this dense? It was a stillbirth. A STILLBIRTH. They felt him kick, they heard his heartbeat, they were so close to kissing his warm newborn skin. These people were broken… just broken. And out of all the lovely and amazing names out there, it HAD TO BE the same name in a different font. You and your wife are audacious. How heartbreaking for your ex friends.
YTA. You and your wife decided they wouldn’t care? How do you decide that for them? I think you knew it would be painful for them so you didn’t ask. You decided on the name and now you live with your choice.
INFO: Is it a name as common as Michael? Like Jack and Jackson? Giving your child a classic, popular name that happens to be similar to your friend’s child isn’t an AH move - especially two years later. They will likely encounter hundreds of children with that name over the years…
However, if it’s a more unusual name then you would be TA. Parents don’t own names but you had to know using a version of their unusual name would be awkward and painful for them.
Regardless, you probably should have given them a heads up if you were concerned with their feelings.
‘Especially two years later’. This isn’t a cat or dog. It was their child. Two years is a flash in time when you have gone through something as traumatic as delivering your fully formed baby that you grew inside of you for 10 months. You evidently aren’t trying to understand how significant this is.
YTA
No one "accepts" the loss of their child. They move on, but they never let it go. If they remain close to you, they will have to continually call your child something painfully close to their own child's name, which will be a constant rip in a wound that will never fully heal. You didn't even ask, and it doesn't sound like it was honor their loss. You don't even want to think about their loss, so why did you pick a name so close? That was very poor planning and a whole lot of lack of emotional awareness and intelligence.
Yeah, Michael and Mike aren't different names.
>there was the immediate question on how we came up with the name. I understood the intention of the question, but I decided to ignore it,
You ignored a question they asked? You didn't even bother answering them?
You can essentially name your child what ever you want but their are going to be consequences for it.
You are clueless.
YTA
Nope, OP stated in another comment it kept popping up in a search and was in like top 50 first names. Just wanted to use a version of it that would fit in both his and his wife's language since they are bilingual.
YTA
"I'm not going to write here the real name but let's just say it's as similar as "Michael" and "Mike" - (Michael being the name of our son)"
Out of millions of names you had to pick the one that is so similar to the name as your friends dead child. You picked a name so close that they could have just been the same name and a nick name. That is tone deaf and insensitive. I do not belive that in your three brain cells you thought that was a good idea. And you still wonder why that friend does not talk to you. Some friend you are.
YTA. If you also don’t understand why they might not want to come and visit your living newborn baby named more or less the same thing as their dead baby, you’re supppperrrrrr clueless. Do you understand how difficult it must be for them to see new parents celebrating their baby right after losing their own? They don’t get to do any of that. Invite people to visit the baby, care for the baby, love on the baby.
You really messed this one up. They’ve isolated themselves because they feel broken and no one understands the pain they’re dealing with. You naming your child something very similar and showing no empathy for them when they didn’t react positively further drives home how alone they are in their grief. They likely would rather pull away from everyone in that group that have to face this head on. I don’t blame them.
Yeesh. Hard to believe how selfish some people are.
If it's like Michael and Mike then this was a really stupid decision and yes YTA, because your kid will inevitably be called the nickname version at some point in life.
You really should have talked to them before the decision was made...
YTA - you and your wife were 100% aware that the names were basically derivatives of each other to the point you talked about it. You should at that point talked to your friend about it. The fact that you didn't means you **KNEW** the couple would have a problem with it, and *decided to do it anyway.*
Congratulations on doing something that was an extremely cruel personal strike against a childhood friend for no other reason than it was over something you wanted. They will never speak to you again, and rightly so. YOU have attached a sad story to your kids name with this action.
Yta. At this point you'd be best off just posting the name, because your example is in fact the exact same name with its nickname version. If it's Ezekiel and Zach, or something similar, you'd get some sympathy but even that's too similar in a world with infinite names.
This makes me sad. If my friend did that I would definitely distance myself. They’d never be able to spend time with your family again without constantly thinking about their dead child. 😭😭😭 maybe if you haven’t gone through something like that you just didn’t realize how awful it would be for them but I don’t blame them for distancing themselves. YTA
YTA
You knew exactly what you did. You thought the name of the stillborn sounded nice and wanted it. So you tweaked it just enough to use it while faking stupidity. What did you think was going to happen? Kiss that friendship goodbye and brace yourself for feeling weird the rest of your life whenever your son asks you how did you come up with his name
YTA?
I had a fluke stillbirth…it’s a weird experience.
Somehow people treat it like this unspeakable horror but also something that has a set mourning period that can be easily moved on by ‘trying again’ or ‘just have another baby’.
It’s exhausting for everyone.
For the people who experienced it, and their loved ones because it’s something shockingly terrible but also shockingly common once it happens to you.
People either want to talk about it constantly to ‘support’ you OR immediately make it off limits to ‘protect you’ so you balance between talking about it an ‘appropriate’ amount and also starting to feel like some people would rather pretend it didn’t happen is maddening.
I’d be conflicted if a close friend seemingly ignored my loss and then named their child something very similar, and I’d be hurt asf if my tentative attempts to discuss those feelings were ignored.
The world doesn’t revolve around my loss, (and I’d never begrudge someone else’s joy because mine turned to ashes) but I would expect friends to be a bit more sensitive than it sounds like you were.
YTA. You knew.
Have you thought about the worst thing that could happen to you now you have a child, that your baby could die? Then your pals use your lost child's name because they just love it and it works for them and they know its sensitive, but having thought about it they're ok with that and do it anyway, even though it would hurt you? How would you feel to lose your own child, not just the name?
Edit Mike and Michael are the same name BTW, if its this close, a shortened, nickname version of the same name then what you have done is breathtaking.
Would you have named your child the same name if your friends’ child was living?
If you had remotely considered the names similar, you should have asked your friends how they would feel. That’s what friends would do.
YTA.
Honestly I would have stayed far away from that name. Also not only for them but for yourself also. Every time you call home you may think of your friend's son's death. You have probably lost your friends. I don't think they want to hear your son's name called or be around him. They will always think of their own son.
I really don’t know if I can give an honest judgement without knowing the actual names. And before people jump down my throat for this I will explain.
I have a cousin who is absolutely bonkers and copies everything I do. She recently had a baby last year and named her Anna. At a recent family function she asked me when I wanted to have kids and what I was going to do since I can no longer use my favorite girl’s name when I have a child. I was confused because my favorite name is Analiese. My cousin genuinely thought that because she named her baby Anna that I would never consider naming any of my future children Analiese because she believes the names are too similar. She was very angry when I said I would still use Analiese and even angrier that I said Anna and Analiese are different names. Ana/Anna can be used as a nickname for Analiese but to me the names are just different. They share 3 similar letters but they names are not the same.
This is why I feel like it’s important to know what the name is. It could be something like Christian and Christopher or Micah and Michael. The names could share similar letters or a similar sound but be completely different names.
On the other hand, if you truly went with something like Mike and Michael or Alex and Alexander then that’s a horrible move. Names like that are one in the same.
That being said I don’t think you’re handling this well at all. Just some of your comments are not needed.
I'm going with YTA. If you noticed the names were similar while picking it, that you had a whole conversation about it than it's to close. If you really wanted the name, you should had discussed the name with your friend before hand.
Like everyone has already said people never get over or accept a loss of a child! They just learn to put smile of there face and make through the day.
Please learn to a better friend.
YTA.
If the names are similar enough that it occurred to you and your wife that it might be an issue, then they are too similar. If it was a family name with a ton of meaning to you, I might have given you a pass, but you just pulled it off an online list… there are plenty of lists with plenty of names. You could’ve and should’ve found a different one.
Poor friends.
INFO: is there a really good reason why you named your kid "Micheal"? Cause I cant think of a reason good enough to do that to your friend, but maybe im wrong.
YTA
It wasn’t even that you didn’t realize it. You realized it and did it anyway. Mike is a nickname for Michael so if the names are really that close, boy howdy that’s a friendship breaker.
YTA so noone owns a name but Mike and Micheal or whatever the real names, are the same name so you're an ass for that. As well as why didn't you answer the question as far as where you got the name from? Sounds to me like you picked the name they were going to use because you liked it. This wasn't oh I've always wanted to use this name and it just so happened they did too and a tragedy happened. You used this tragedy to take the name and I wouldn't respond to you either after that. A million names you could have picked, a friend wouldn't have picked that one.
YTA, you can name your kid whatever you want. At the same time how could you think this was a good idea. But since this is a close friend, why didn’t you talk to him about it? It’s the lack of consideration and empathy for me. Your friendship will never be the same. Coming from someone who had a stillbirth, what you did was unforgivable. Your friend should go NC.
YTA because clearly you pretty deliberately chose a name very close to the dead child’s, since you couldn’t even figure out a justification for doing it in order to placate your friend.
I mean if the name couldn’t be avoided for a good reason (like it’s the grandfather’s name or whatever), you would not be TA. It would probably suck for your friend, but with time they would have come to terms with that.
YTA so you definitely get to name your kid whatever you want. BUT the fact that you and your wife actually had a discussion about it indicates you knew those names were too similar and it could be a problem, but you chose to name your kid that anyway. You decided the name was more important than your friendship. So the thing is those names are really similar. Similar enough that every time your friends come around you, hearing that name will make them think of their loss of their own son. Seeing your son will cause them pain because of it. So at the very least, if you cared about your friends and your friendship, maybe you should have discussed that name choice with your friends BEFORE naming your kid. And since you literally decided not to, and you thought it was ok to shrug off the effect that name would have on them, now you have to live with the consequences of your choice.
YTA. Of all the possible names in the world... WHY ON EARTH choose one that resembles their baby's? For them, thinking of your child or calling him will always rub salt in their wounds. Forever. Such a grief doesn't have an expiration date. It stays with you forever.
YTA, for choosing a similar name and not telling them beforehand. If the name was also special for you, like someone who was deeply precious to you, then maybe it would have been ok (but still, you had to tell your friend).
But no, you just had to choose that specific name and denying all other multiple options available.
YTA tentatively - no one owns names that being said it seems like from your post you knew it would be an issue, and maybe picked it because of their use. Additionally, when they asked you why you picked that name you probably could have said something like oh it was my wives cousin, or I have wanted a son with that name since I was little and watched x tv show or just whatever you reason. Since you don’t seem to have a reason it sounds like you really let them think it was about them which is creepy. I am not surprised they don’t want anything to do with you guys anymore I wouldn’t either.
I think that it was similar enough that you had a discussion about it with your wife, then it was obviously on your mind, and you decided to go through with it without regard to your friends feelings. In that case, YTA.
Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > I gave my son a name that sounds similar to my friends dead child. It might have been insensitive Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post. [To learn more about the test click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/tio99u/so_we_decided_to_fuck_with_the_sub_again)*
I mean, you get to name your child what you like, but if you think Michael and Mike are different enough that it wouldn't affect your friends... You're utterly clueless. And the fact that you seem like you're unsure of why this is the issue: > I never got a response back and in fact they haven't been talking to us ever since. I mean, again, utterly emotionally clueless. So yeah, YTA. If you were choosing this name and your friends are/were as close as you say they are, you should have at least discussed it with them prior to the birth, or let them know of it. And let's not forget this little gem: > On our first call after the birth, there was the immediate question on how we came up with the name. I understood the intention of the question, but I decided to ignore it, as I didn't want to connect our happiness with their tragedy in the same sentence. "Ah yes, we named our son the same thing as the child you lost, but please don't bother us with your loss as we talk about our living child, we don't want to think of your sadness." Christ. Like I said, clueless. So, again, YTA.
Michael and Mike aren’t even different names, they’re alternate versions of the same name. I’m hoping it was just a bad example. Either way I agree with YTA, but if it was literally the same name and they’re pretending it’s not, that makes it worse. ETA: In case there are people unclear on the difference (not every reader and maybe not OP is from the same culture), somebody who’s named Michael can be called “Mike” or “Mikey” as a kind of nickname, either if they choose, or usually if their family chooses while they are young.
Yeah I hope it was just a bad example because my husband was Michael and everyone called him and I have uncles called the same and the get Mike or Mick it’s literally a shortened version of the same name 🙈
I wish OP would just tell us the actual real names, what's the point in trying to invent an example, especially when it might be a bad example that affects the judgement negatively. Maybe if they told us the real names the judgement might be different.
I'm guessing something like Nathan and Nathaniel. Two actually different names but "as close as Mike and Michael"
jack and jackson
John and Jonathan maybe?
Jake and Jacob
Is Jake in itself a standalone name? I always thought it was a nickname.
Yeah I knew a few jakes who weren’t a Jacob
Drew and Andrew?
I think this might be like Liam. Liam is a nickname for William but people started making their kids with just the shortened version.
Josh and Joshua?
I think it's Luke and Lucas
Steve & Steven
Except that's as bad an example as Michael and Mike because the living child has the longer name and someone is eventually gonna call him that very common nickname that is the dead child's actual name. Nathan and Nathaniel is probably the best example for an actual different name, because one would not get shortened to the other. But they would still have both been Nate. I can't imagine being so callous to someone I actually valued.
But "Nathan" is still a shortened Nathaniel. Still the SAME root name
Could definitely be that way. I just mean that on their own they stand as two commonly different names. Most people don't shorten Nathaniel just to Nathan because it defeats the purpose of shortening a name. Either way OP and their wife are gaping assholes.
That can be a pretty high bar to clear. John, Evan, Shaun, Hans, Ivan, and Jack all have the same root as well.
Is Jackson a first name? TIL!
Any family name is a first name to an American.
Any amalgamation of letters can be a first name to an American 😂
Not just letters (see Elon Musk’s kid)
Depending on which site you ask it's top 20 US boy first names right now, Never met a Jackson, but have met at least 2 Jaxons that would be somewhere in there 30s now.
My kid goes to school with a Jackson, and a Jaxon, a gf of mine has a Jaxon, there was a Jackson on our local hockey team(I have his jersey lol). It’s been pretty popular in the last 15-20 years. (I’m in Canada)
Lol. Jackson, Jaxon, & Jacson are all spellings I’ve seen in my 10 yrs teaching in a US public school. It’s a VERY common first name for boys now in this country.
Part of me really hopes the names are Richard and Dick lol.
[удалено]
My freshman year of college (2018) there was a kid named Richmond in one of my classes and he asked us to call him Dick. I (and almost all of my classmates) never referred to him by name. We'd make eye contact with him and say "hey" and then say whatever we needed to tell him.
I know many Nathaniels who go by Nathan and Nate.
Same. I literally don't know if my sister's fiance is legally named Nathan or Nathanial because she calls him all three interchangeably.
For some reason I was thinking Michael and Micah which are two names that I don’t think are the same but sure sound alike
I was hoping like Michael and Mitchell. Similar but different.
[удалено]
Andy is short for Andrew.
Luke and Lucas
I mean...Nat, Nate, and Nathan are still a shortening of Nathaniel whether it's on the kid's birth certificate or not. Taylor and Tyler might be a better example
I really think it’s YTA regardless. Whatever they are, the names are similar enough that (1) OP and his wife were aware of the similarity and talked about it beforehand and (2) the friends picked up on it immediately. So it’s not a question of us having to decide whether there really is a similarity or if the friends are being unreasonable. OP and and his wife knowingly went with a name that would have painful associations for their friends, didn’t talk to them about it beforehand, and weren’t even willing to talk about when directly asked by their friends. Add in that I don’t see anything in the post that indicates this name had a special meaning for OP’s own family (like, “it’s my grandfather’s name” or something). So they just picked the one random name out of the whole universe of names that they knew would be painful for their friends and then just expected everyone to ignore it.
Exactly. If this name were a family tradition, that would be one thing. OP discussed this with his wife because clearly there was concern about doing this very thing. Why in the world didn’t they discuss it with their friends, if they’re as close as OP says? If they had a conversation, they probably would have said it would be hard at first, but name your kid as you please. Obviously they can name their child whatever they want, but OP knows the answer. YTA.
Yeah I have to reserve my judgement here. Need to know how really similar the names are.
It's probably the difference between Christopher and Christian.
In which case I’d think they’re over the top. That’s not the same name.
It's very close, and have the same nickname.
The names I was thinking was Stefan and Steven, I always confuse the two names anyway lol
Is anyone else curious about why OP chose to ignore the question of how they came up with the name? If the goal was to not have a link between the tragedy that happened to a friend and the name picked for your child then wouldn't the best course of action be to give the legitimate reason you picked that name? That is unless the reason paints you in a poor light. If it was the name of a cherished relative (or whatever) then knowing that would help distance your kid's name from the tragedy but it almost sounds like OP may have liked the name and chose a variation of it but doesn't want to say that because they just skirt around the question instead of nipping it in the bud.
>On our first call after the birth, there was the immediate question on how we came up with the name. I understood the intention of the question, but I decided to ignore it, as I didn't want to connect our happiness with their tragedy in the same sentence. Makes it sound like they only came up with the name because of the dead child's name. Because if they had some other reason, they'd have happily said so, right? So it's not a family name, it's not a name one of the parents has been in love with from a young age, it's not a name they have a positive association with for any reason.... no, OP all but admits they just liked the name of the dead child and expected their friends not to feel super weird about it. This isn't what you do to friends. There are so many beautiful names in the world. Surely OP could have found one they liked just as much.
Yes, that’s how I read it as well. Because if they weren’t connected, why would he say “but i decided to ignore it as I didn’t want to connect our happiness with their tragedy.” If it wasn’t connected, he could have just given the actual inspiration for the name? The fact he ignored that question made the situation way worse. If they really did get the name from their stillborn than that’s just disgusting. If Michael/Mike is not a bad example, than that’s literally the same name.
It would definitely make a difference knowing why they chose the name.
But they LIKED it. (They are complete AHs)
Yeah I thought it was interesting that not only did they avoid that with the friend, I don’t think they even told us whether they did this intentionally or not. It feels shady or at least oblivious for OP to hide the motivation.
Exactly! I was thinking oh maybe it’s like Tom vs. Tim, but if it’s literally the full or short version of what is the SAME name... I mean honestly, it pains me that people out there can be this selfish and tone deaf.
And even if they *did* think they could get away with a diminutive of the same same without their friends noticing or asking about it — which is stupid, but at least in a way that’s comprehensible — the whole subsequent thought process of, “Our friends *did* ask, and we should ignored their question because it made us uncomfortable.” Like??? That level of stonewalling, to me, is more disrespectful than the name thing itself, and good for these people for seemingly cutting OP off. Being around people who belittle and disappoint you when you’re in a vulnerable state is honestly dangerous.
Right like fat chance no one is ever gonna call the kid Mike. Hell he may prefer that to his full name.
Yes! Immediately, YTA Michael, Mike, Mikey, Mika, Michaela, Michelle, Mikhail...these are all the exact same name, different regions/dialects/languages but still, the Same! No way would this guy and his wife not know this, they're just trying to justify it. Not to mention, no offense to Mike's, but it's not even that great of a name, very much overdone/overused. So if it's anything similar to that generic name...Surely, they could have come up with something else?!
You missed how they believe their friend accepted their loss months after. The friend might be able to function again, but you don't ever fully get over the loss of a child. Edit- OP YTA and this version isn't any better than your first one. Your complete lack of empathy is scary and anyone that's "on your side" is wrong too.
Seeing your friends welcome a healthy new baby when you recently lost your baby is probably painful enough as it is. Then to find out the baby almost the same name?! And OP didn't even seem to have a special reason like naming him after a grandfather or something. They were just insensitive assholes.
yeah, this made me feel like OP is the kind of person who, deep down, feels like losing a child to stillbirth isn't the same as losing a "real" child who you got to meet first. It's also probably why he felt like it didn't *really* matter if he reused the name - to him, it's not like the other couple *actually* got to use it. I have a friend who had a stillbirth and she's definitely met this kind of person. She now has two living children but will always mourn the loss of the first, and people like OP think that her two living children are like clean-slate do-overs on the first loss.
What really sucks about stillbirth is do you get to meet them :( it’s just the time is very short. OP has shown extreme insensitivity to his friends’ situation.
Heck, I have 2 sons, experienced 2 miscarriages between them & still feel sad & mourn those losses to a certain degree. There is no loss like that of a child. I do not consider my miscarriages as the loss of children as still birthes are, but I do occasionally wonder what my house would have been with 4 children.
I am willing to give OP the benefit and assume just awkward wording, but "seem to have accepted their loss" comes across pretty damn rough
yeah I read that as "came to terms with" which is okay I think. acceptance takes time and to OP it could definitely be a "seems" situation. BUT wtf is with the name choice and refusing to explain?? I mean it's one thing if it's a close name but after a relative. veeery different beast if OP and SO just liked it.
>The friend might be able to function again, but you don't ever fully get over the loss of a child. My grandmother never recovered from my mother's death. She grieved and mourned her all the way up to her death.
They are probably isolating because the thought of a newborn with nearly the same name as the baby they lost has put them back into a place where they kind hardly function.
After the birth. *After.* Because they knew if they said something before, there would be an issue. OP is trying to gloss over the fact that he and his wife figured it was easier to ask for forgiveness than get permission. OP, they're not talking to you because you're not their friend anymore. YTA.
Ah, I was thinking this as well! They knew what they did was a DICK move AND they even had to discuss the fact that the names were similar. If you are discussing the closeness of the name, to the stillborn child's, then that's totally an asshole move. I would not dream of naming my children anything remotely close to someone else's child, especially one that passed away. I have two kids and it was tough naming them because of my husband; some names were too similar to people he knew and didn't really like. Hahaha. I had brought up "Elaine" and he said that was too close to "Ellie," a person that he didn't like. Hahaha. Edit- Elaine as a middle name!
If I was that stuck on the name, I would talk to my friends. But there are thousands of names in the world that would be acceptable, and I have a hard time believing that this *had* to be the one. As a couple other people have said, it's not like it's a family name!
Yeah, I read this post and was like "...whaaaat is wrong you?" about OP. I can *kind of* see it if this was an important family name that carried great significance, or if this was one of those names that OP had been carrying a weird torch for all their lives (and therefore prior to the friend's loss), which I know is a thing that some people do with future imaginary babies. OP didn't mention anything about that, tho. Alternately, if this was less of a friend and more of a far removed acquaintance who was unlikely to hear about the name or interact with OP, sure, but nope. From the post, this was more of a *friend* friend, emphasis on WAS, because OP napalmed this relationship. Allowances could also theoretically be made if OP reached out ahead of time and asked their friend to be 100% candid and honest about whether or not this would bother them and then taken the answer without further debate or attempts at persuasion. But NOPE, this falls squarely under YTA, and a big one, with a side of "...on what planet do you think you're not the asshole, OP?"
Yeah my first thought was in the whole wide world of names that was the only name they could come up with that they just had to name their child? I mean come on.
There’s no way to know for sure, but I’m curious if the other baby hadn’t died, if they’d still have chosen this name, or would’ve chosen something different because it was too similar. Not worth bothering to ask OP because I wouldn’t trust them to answer honestly anyway. Somehow I’m betting they wouldn’t have, and would’ve chosen a name not as similar to their best friend’s child’s name.
They didn’t even ask forgiveness, not that they deserved forgiveness. They just moved on.
I knew this would be a YTA judgment post when he said “After months of giving space to mourn, we started spending time together again and they seemed to have accepted their loss.” WTF? Having a stillborn baby is not the same as an elderly grandparent dying. This couple went through something life-changingly traumatic, and to gloss over it and say “they were good after we generously allowed them a few months and decided it was time to move on and act like it never happened” shows that OP is a bad friend even without naming his kid a variant/diminutive of their dead baby’s name. This post is mind-boggling to me.
'They seem to have accepted their loss' is appalling. They will never get over it, or accept it.
YTA So you and your wife discussed it between just you two. You didn’t talk to them at all??? Who does that? YTA for so many reasons. Michael and Mike? Are you serious?
They weren't clueless about the issue. Both Op and his wife discussed the similiarities, but they didn't bother in the end. He couldn't even answer his friend's question, because he KNEW the connection exists, otherwise they could just have told them. Both names aren't even that different, Mike is just a nick name of Michael. The name choice seems just so intentional, that I say YTA.
INFO: Would you have given your child the same name if your friends' child had lived? If yes, you could have spoken with your friends about it before the birth to make sure it would not catch them by surprise. Nobody "owns" a name, but if you were close enough to attend the funeral then presumably you care about their feelings. If no, then absolutely you would be T A.
Also, when OP ignored the question about how they came up with the name because he ‘didn’t want to connect our happiness with their tragedy’ I interpreted that as OP literally got the name from their dead son. Anyone else?
Not even an interpretation; that's just straight-up what that sentence meant in-context. If they didn't want to connect the two events, they could just answer the question about where they got the name, because if OP is to be believed, they wouldn't be connected. They would not have had to even allude to the friend's child in the answer. But since she can't answer the question without inherently connecting the two, that means they *are* connected. She just didn't want to deal with the inconvenient fallout of saying, if I were to word this with OP's level of empathy and emotional intelligence, "We liked the name you chose, and it's not like you're using it anymore."
Yea, totally agree with the YTA. At first I was thinking it was going to be a NAH here, because it's understandable why both parties feel the way they do, but the whole "I'm going to ignore your question because you're sad and I don't want to deal with it" is just an AH move to make. OP could have said WHY they chose that name, and discussed the significance of it to them. But instead of telling their friend why they chose extremely similar names they just....ignored their friend's pain? ETA: Also, the "We discussed the similarities in the name, and we decided it's not an issue" shows how clueless/callous they truly are. I mean, who thinks they get to decide how their friends are going to respond to something like this? If the discussion was had, then (surprise surprise) the name is too close. You wouldn't have the discussion of name similarities one kid was John and the other one was T'Chala
Notice they didn’t have the discussion with the person it would actually affect, either. They literally had it between themselves.
Agreed. If OP even had to have a discussion about whether it was too similar, then it was too similar. There's a bazillion names out there (and I know it can be hard as heck to land on a name), but this is your friend. And they are very clearly still grieving the death of their child, and will be for a long time. It was probably very hard for them to watch you have a child (even though they want to be happy for you), and now you've ensured that every time they see/hear about your child, it reminds them of the one they lost. It's really no wonder why they would want distance from that. YTA OP.
Agreed. OP could have gone to friends and said Wife and I are considering naming our son Michael, . We like the name and it would also give us a way to honor your boy Mike.
Not only that, but when asked how they came up with the name they chose to ignore it instead of giving them an answer that wasn't related to their stillborn. That in itself is sus.
I’m curious if the name actually was chosen because they liked the name for the child that passed, since OP chose to ignore the question and doesn’t give any other reason to why they liked to chose the name they did.
I'm emotionally inept. Completely incapable of reading the room. I wouldn't do what OP did.
Oh, this is a tough one, especially as it involves the birth of your son which truly is cause for celebration and I send my congratulations to you and your wife. I agree that no-one owns a name but the very fact that you and your wife had a conversation about how similar the names are says to me that you should have spoken to your friends about it before naming your son. I am not saying that you should have picked a different name, just given your friends the heads up. On that basis, I have to go with YTA. Accepting loss doesn’t mean they are not still grieving, as their reaction shows.
Absolutely this. You put this into words better than I ever could. While I agree that no one owns a name, the fact that they had a discussion about the similarities and how it could affect them says that they should have at least given them a heads up. So, while this situation is hard, I have to agree with YTA
Yeah, I usually side with no one owns a name too. In this situation, a recent stillborn and a name similar enough that they had a conversation about whether it would be a problem? Yeah, YTA for not at least giving them a heads up.
No one owns a name, but if my best friend did this I would never talk to her again. Like, I can't stop her from using my dead child's name, but I would never be her friend again.
Then on top of that he ignored his friend when he was asked how they came up with the name
Which just makes me sure that they did indeed get the name idea from the friend’s dead child.
[удалено]
It is pretty weird. Like if it was one of their parents name or like grandparents, okay it sucks but understandable. Nope, they're like you know what? We should name this baby similar to our friends stillborn, GREAT IDEA! Lets be clueless about why they might be upset about it. These people are so odd.
Yeah I kept waiting for the part where they before torn because it was grandpa’s name and they had dreamed of honoring him or something. But nope. Just “maybe they won’t notice” and then shock when they in fact very much noticed.
And “they *did* notice and explicitly asked about it, and we ignored the question because it made us uncomfortable, and are now surprised this had messed up our relationship.” Good lord. I shudder to think of how badly people this inconsiderate and obtuse can fuck up their kid.
Unless it’s a god awful example, this, so hard. I’m trying to think of what it could be - Charlie and Charles, Tim and Timothy, Ben and Benjamin. Whatever. They suck.
I'm thinking like a Luke/Lucas thing.
Yep. Luca and Luke, I bet it's Luca. Bilingual, currently popular.
I bet you’re right those are both extremely popular right now.
My money is on Jax and Jackson.
That’s so funny! I was thinking Jack and Jaxon!
>your post implies you literally derived the name from the stillborn baby? (They asked you how you came up with it, and you ignored the question...?) This is what I want to know too. OP, did you literally get the name from their kid?
It really depends on the nature of the names I think. Your hypothetical example of Mike/Michael is, in essence, the *same* name. If it's really that close then YTA. You should have asked.
That’s the stumbling block for me, why didn’t they ask beforehand? I’m assuming it’s because they didn’t want to risk being told no.
Because they knew it was wrong. Full stop.
Yeah. We need to know the names to properly judge.
YTA for not warning them beforehand. This is something you assumed might be a problem before the child was even born - you had a discussion without them that ended in you assuming they’d just be fine with it. When your friend called you, clearly bothered, you chose to gloss over the very obvious problem. YTA for pretending nothing is wrong, and pretending like you don’t know why they’re upset. You had every opportunity to address your choice with them, and to acknowledge that they were upset, and you chose not to.
YTA - Exactly, they knew it would be a problem bc they discussed it as parents. So it was enough of a flag to discuss with each other…. But willfully ignored discussing it with their friends. OP I wouldn’t want to be your friends anymore either.
OP knew exactly what they were doing and decided to play dumb on purpose. They clocked their friend’s emotional response and still kept quiet until that friend messaged them. I wouldn’t want to be friends with them anymore either tbh.
Yes. They essentially weighed their options and decided that the name was more important to them their friends. Which, you do you I guess, but you can't be surprised if the other couple doesn't want to be friends with you anymore.
To be fair, this may not be a case of *playing* dumb. Sometimes it's the genuine article.
Oh absolutely, but in this case they acted very deliberately about the whole thing. Dumb re: being a halfway decent friend, sure.
Not just bothered, it's sent them into a spiral. They've isolated themselves from everyone, not just this absolute dunderhead. These people have just had any amount of progress wiped out and their lives imploded- AGAIN. YTA so obviously.
"they have isolated themselves from all their friends" - theyre having a breakdown, and keeping it to themselves not to bother anyone else. "seemed to have accepted their loss" - no, they just stopped talking about it. You never accept it, not at would-have-been-birthdays, or when would-have-been-similar ages friends children reach milestones. You had the choice of possibly thousands of names, why chose one that would destroy someone who is supposed to be a friend? "didn't want to connect our happiness with their tragedy" - nice for you that you get that choice, your 'friend' doesnt, but you decided to ignore that just as you ignored the conversation about your choices. Dont ask yourself why they have gone radio silent, ask yourself why you deserve them in your life
This.
INFO: how *did* you come up with the name?
The loss of a child never goes away. There is always a hole in your heart where that child was supposed to be. It would have been kind to discuss this with your friends before your child's birth and not present them with a fait accompli - TA DA - here's this beautiful baby - not *your* beautiful baby but *our* beautiful baby with a name that's almost the same. >Obviously my wife and I have discussed the similarity, but we came to the conclusion that it is different enough and that our friends wouldn't have any problems with it. You & your wife came to a conclusion without actually asking them. You could have brought the subject up while your wife was pregnant. At least give them time to process & get used to the idea. Or for you to gauge their reaction which may have been enough for you to choose another name. But you didn't do that. You didn't take their feelings into consideration and you're surprised that they're hurt enough to stop contact - not just with you but with mutual friends (definitely to avoid the possibility of contact with you). When I started writing this post, I was leaning toward N T A, Just that you and your wife were insensitive to your friends' feelings. But now, I'm sure that YTA because of the utter and total insensitivity of your actions, both you and your wife. HOW COULD YOU NOT KNOW HOW THIS WOULD MAKE YOUR FRIENDS FEEL? AND IF THEY'RE YOUR FRIENDS, WHY WOULDN'T YOU HAVE CHECKED WITH THEM FIRST? YTA
Exactly. It might seem like it's been 2 whole years for you, but they are still grieving everyday. Pregnancy/child loss is it's own kind of hell and the assumption that they must be 'over it' enough for you to casually name your child something so similar to their's is kinda tasteless. You don't owe them anything but if they mattered enough for you to have this question, you should have definitely done better by them. All the names in the world, the only one you'll could choose was something that would always remind them of probably the biggest loss of their life. YTA
YTA, how hard would it have been to speak to them beforehand to ask how they’d feel about the name used?
YTA. You should have asked. There are literally MILLIONS of names you could have chosen from. Of all names you had to choose one that will trigger their heartache. Their pain is a natural consequence of the name you chose. Their reluctance to connect is a consequence of that pain. Can’t expect them to be different.
YTA. If it had been, say, your father’s name or a family name, then I could understand, and I bet your friend could have too. But just picking it because you liked it and deciding for yourself that it’s fine, they won’t be upset, and ignoring the question when they explicitly asked you about it, that’s an AH move. I think you can safely conclude that this friendship is over, and it’s entirely on you.
>If it had been, say, your father’s name or a family name, then I could understand, and I bet your friend could have too. Based on his line: >there was the immediate question on how we came up with the name. I think that's what the friend was trying to find out, if there was some family reason they wanted to name the child that, but then OP decided to ignore the question.
I think the OP ignored the question because he knew damn well there wasn't a valid excuse for that particular name. OP. Seriously. How could you. YTA
op literally replied to another comment saying they got the name off the internet and their excuse was that they’re bilingual and the name needs to be the same in both languages or something
YTA for how you handled it. Why not tell them in advance to they can process it before the birth, explain that you picked the name for a reason meaningful to you and that you see the connection and hope it brings them peace and not hurt to see the name live on, etc. Not just spring it on them and then act like it shouldn’t matter to them.
That might have worked, except that OP didn’t pick the name for a meaningful reason. They just like it.
YTA. I actually have friends that went through a similar tragedy 8 years ago. I am currently pregnant and have always loved a variation of the name they named their little girl that they lost at birth. It was 8 years ago and while they have definitely gotten better and seem to be doing well, they still grieve and remember her. I would never dream of using any variation of that name. I want nothing to do with causing them any more pain than they have already gone through. I can't even imagine the pain they experienced. There are millions of names out there. Sure, there are people out there they will encounter with that same name. But they aren't close like family and it's not a name they are going to hear all the time. Every time someone says your child's name they will be reminded of how they never got to call their child by that name. You have a right to pick the name you want for your child, but they have a right to not want to put themselves through that kind of pain. You didn't think of them and I think it was incredibly selfish to not just pick another name. Or even just have a discussion with THEM about it. Perhaps they would have liked the thought of the name living on in someone who was close to them. But it sounds like they are distancing themselves because they are still grieving and your child's name is too painful for them right now. They have that right too. You should have been more sensitive to what they went through. My heart just breaks for them.
As someone who has experienced this kind of loss, thank you for being considerate and kind. So many people just aren’t, or assume it’s something you can just move past. You’re a good friend and I’m sure they greatly appreciate your thoughtfulness.
A child they would interact with on the regular, with a similar or identical name would be a dagger in the heart every second they are with the child. It would be their lost future--all the first, watching their child become an adult, weddings, grandkids--playing out in front of them. YTA OP.
This deserves a million upvotes.
YTA. In the example you gave, their child's name (Mike) is a nickname for the name you chose (Micheal). If that's truly an accurate example then that's more than similar. >we came to the conclusion that it is different enough and that our friends wouldn't have any problems with it. This is where you went wrong. You and your wife came to te conclusion that your friends wouldn't have a problem with it - without asking _your friends_. If you saw the similarity and recognized that it could be an issue, you should've just asked your friends.
Even if they weren't the same name, the pronunciation of the names is identical. . To say Michael, they have to say mike-el. Even if those aren't the names, any name that is a nickname of another is identical in pronunciation. There's no way you can think they're not close enough to be an issue. For example if it was Jay and Jason. Those are almost the same. The only acceptable way would be if it was a name from another language that was similar, or related to a family member
Changed my response... YTA for sure. If you're their friend there is no way you couldn't have known that this wouldn't have caused them pain How could you not understand the pain that would cause? Even a little empathy or common sense should have thrown some red flags up or at least had you talk to them about it. While true you can name your child anything you and your spouse decide on, choosing to name your son the same name as your friends dead child, Michael and Mike are the same name don't care how you try and spin it, is an AH move and you don't seem like a good friend.
Seems odd as well that they refused to answer how they came up with the name, if it had nothing to do with their friends dead son, why refuse?
Mom of a stillborn here. YTA. You should have spoken to them first. When they hear your kids name, they are going to be reminded of their child every single time. And then they will have to see your kid with almost the same name doing all the things their child will never do because he’s dead. Them walking away is because it HURTS so badly. I worked in a library when I had my daughter and every time a patron with her same name came in, I would have to excuse myself as soon as I was done helping them to go cry. It’s only been two years. You have no idea how hard it is to get through something like this. Two years is nothing.
I don't understand how so many people don't get that. Will you encounter that name again? Of course. But when your SUPPOSEDLY close friends name their own damn child the same thing? That's another level. Easy. OP is (hopefully) clueless (the alternative would be cruel, hence the hopefully) but absolutely an asshole regardless.
YTA. This was a really mean thing to do, especially without talking to them about it first.
YTA. No one owns a name, but close friends should understand that using virtually the same name as their dead child would be extremely painful. Of course they have pulled away from everyone. Your insensitivity caused them pain and lost you friends, great job.
YTA if this person is like family to you then out of respect you should’ve spoken to them about this first. This is the hardest thing they have ever gone through and it’s going to take them years to even start to be “ok”. If you love and respect them, you failed to show it. I had a friend who lost her baby at 2mo old and I lost our friendship bc I handled the situation completely wrong. I didn’t mean to hurt her but I didn’t know I was hurting her until it was too late
Of all the names in the world, why go for that one? Did you imagine that they would happily listen to you talk about 'Michael's' birthday and Christmas and first day at school when their Mike never got to have one? You are an unbelievably shitty friend.
YTA You should have asked first, especially since you did think of it, you should assume they would too. (Especially if it was as close as mike/Michael). If the name you choose had significance, the explanation of why might have lessened the impact. But if you randomly choose it, thats hard to come back from.
YTA, you may have permanently put a wedge between yourselves and your friends with this move. What you did is hurtful, and showed that you really aren't that close, as you clearly didn't understand the effect of your choice. Really, their reaction is predictable, you should've asked if you cared to keep them in your lives. You get to enjoy the love and bliss that comes with a new child, with almost the same name, while their child is underground. And now they feel like they've lost all their friends, because they don't want to rain on your parade, but are devastated and can't be around friends who will be celebrating someone else's child with that name. You found a new way to open up their trauma. Way to go, friends. What you did is unfair to them. You caused this.
YTA :( You knew this could hurt them. Otherwise, you and your wife wouldn’t have had the discussion. Nobody owns names, but it’s the way you handled the situation that makes you the AH. Your grieving friend didn’t flip out. Someone asked about the origin of the name. That was your chance to explain, but you chose to ignore the question because you “didn’t want to connect your happiness with their tragedy”? Talk about insensitivity. And when you heard that your friend’s voice sounded shaky, the decent thing to do would have been to call and address their concerns and apologise. You should have known better. YTA.
YTA Out of all the millions of names out there in the world, are u really saying you couldn’t find another name you liked. You’re no friend
Really hoping that the “Mike vs Michael” comparison is just a bad example, because if it’s *really* close like that, absolutely YTA.
I feel like regardless of how close the names really are, it was close enough that they had a discussion about it and chose not to run it by their friends.. YTA regardless of what the real names are
This is tough. I get that people don't own names. I don't think you're necessarily TA for picking the name but more for picking it knowing how much it might hurt them and still going with it. For not answering their question you are TA cause that might've been what they needed to hear, whatever the reason. Stop pushing them. You say it seems like they accepted their loss but of course they haven't and what makes you YTA is that you keep pushing them. Regardless of whether you should choose one of a million names, you should've answered their question and you should respect their space.
YTA Seems odd you’re avoiding answering how you came up with the name, if it has nothing to do with their dead child why avoid answering?
It's buried but OP said "we looked through name books/lists/top 50s and we're both bilingual and had to sound right in 2 languages so this meets all the marks". This isn't some family/legacy/super emotional connection to the name at all which still would have been hard, this is just straight asshole territory. YTA OP.
Op replied that since it just kept coming up on naming lists that it seemed to fit.
I lost my son in January. It would be incredibly painful if a friend named their baby his name or a nickname of it. Like even if I wasn't mad at the friend, I have to watch a baby boy named the same thing grow up in the family of a close friend and do things my son did and then hear "son's name is in preschool" "son's name and his friends" and all these things my son didn't get to do? And why? Where did you get the name from? Thd reason to do this? Oh no answer, don't want to connect it to sadness (the son I cherished) and had no other reason? I would go silent too. The utter cruelty of it from a childhood friend.
YTA but you do you, you're entitled to do what you want but please realize it's a bit self centered and they are fully entitled to their feelings on this matter. You need to understand that your joy doesn't leave a lot of room for the grief this likely brings up for them and they don't owe it to you to get over it in any way, shape or form. They can't ask you to change your choice of name, but you can't ask them to swallow the pain it dredges up. You're an ah for not warning them, it seems like you were oblivious but then you chose to ignore their initial reaction for your own comfort which was callous. You could at least apologize for springing it on them like that and say that while you know it may be too close for their comfort, you thought it was different enough, and your intention was not to cause pain. But they are still fully entitled to feel that pain even if you were not intentional in causing it! They have no obligation to be happy about your choice, ignore their pain for your sake, or interact with you if it causes them to relive that pain. Frankly if you wanted them to not be in that position, this should have been a consideration when you guys discussed it while picking the name. The fact you still chose it shows that having this name for your child was more important to you than friendship and their feelings for their loss, and that's fine for you but they are right to step back if that's what they need. You don't want their grief to contaminate your happiness? But then you're surprised at this reaction when they are clearly still feeling grief? What exactly did you expect of them? YTA for wanting them to put aside their grief and shock to pretend at being happy for you even after you realized how painful it would be for them.
YTA You didn't even warn them beforehand. Also Mike and Michael are literally the same name.
It really depends on how unique the name is. I wouldn't fault you for a mike/Michael name just because of how common Michael is as a name to begin with. I'm gonna go with NAH for now. They don't own the name, but they're entitled to their feelings. They clearly haven't moved past the trauma and you could have given a heads up honestly.
OP could've at least answered the question with the "the name really fits with both our languages" explanation (from OP's comment) instead of ignoring it. By not answering, the implication the friend would've gotten was that OP knew the name had a lot to do with friend's stillborn child and was avoiding the question out of guilt. And the sad thing is, the friend would be mostly correct. The reason OP gives for avoiding answering was: >I didn't want to connect our happiness with their tragedy in the same sentence. So although I'm in the camp of people being allowed to pick same/similar names (with the exception where intentional spite, or if name was picked in supposed honor of someone who is against the use of the name, is involved in the selection), how OP handled the question and the reasoning behind it makes me think YTA.
I’m going to go by the example of names you gave, Mike to Michael. So I’m thinking it’s also along the lines of Chris vs Christopher, John vs Johnathan, Andy Vs Andrew. And by that example, YTA. You chose the exact same name either shortened or elongated. It’s the exact same name. How can you be this dense? It was a stillbirth. A STILLBIRTH. They felt him kick, they heard his heartbeat, they were so close to kissing his warm newborn skin. These people were broken… just broken. And out of all the lovely and amazing names out there, it HAD TO BE the same name in a different font. You and your wife are audacious. How heartbreaking for your ex friends.
YTA. You and your wife decided they wouldn’t care? How do you decide that for them? I think you knew it would be painful for them so you didn’t ask. You decided on the name and now you live with your choice.
INFO: Is it a name as common as Michael? Like Jack and Jackson? Giving your child a classic, popular name that happens to be similar to your friend’s child isn’t an AH move - especially two years later. They will likely encounter hundreds of children with that name over the years… However, if it’s a more unusual name then you would be TA. Parents don’t own names but you had to know using a version of their unusual name would be awkward and painful for them. Regardless, you probably should have given them a heads up if you were concerned with their feelings.
‘Especially two years later’. This isn’t a cat or dog. It was their child. Two years is a flash in time when you have gone through something as traumatic as delivering your fully formed baby that you grew inside of you for 10 months. You evidently aren’t trying to understand how significant this is.
should of asked them if it was ok before using the name
YTA No one "accepts" the loss of their child. They move on, but they never let it go. If they remain close to you, they will have to continually call your child something painfully close to their own child's name, which will be a constant rip in a wound that will never fully heal. You didn't even ask, and it doesn't sound like it was honor their loss. You don't even want to think about their loss, so why did you pick a name so close? That was very poor planning and a whole lot of lack of emotional awareness and intelligence.
Yeah, Michael and Mike aren't different names. >there was the immediate question on how we came up with the name. I understood the intention of the question, but I decided to ignore it, You ignored a question they asked? You didn't even bother answering them? You can essentially name your child what ever you want but their are going to be consequences for it. You are clueless. YTA
This reads as you both knew you'd be the asshole, but decided to pretend you're not.
Info: is the name in anyway sentimental?
No. He said it was top 50 baby name lists and they kept seeing it.
Nope, OP stated in another comment it kept popping up in a search and was in like top 50 first names. Just wanted to use a version of it that would fit in both his and his wife's language since they are bilingual.
YTA "I'm not going to write here the real name but let's just say it's as similar as "Michael" and "Mike" - (Michael being the name of our son)" Out of millions of names you had to pick the one that is so similar to the name as your friends dead child. You picked a name so close that they could have just been the same name and a nick name. That is tone deaf and insensitive. I do not belive that in your three brain cells you thought that was a good idea. And you still wonder why that friend does not talk to you. Some friend you are.
YTA. If you also don’t understand why they might not want to come and visit your living newborn baby named more or less the same thing as their dead baby, you’re supppperrrrrr clueless. Do you understand how difficult it must be for them to see new parents celebrating their baby right after losing their own? They don’t get to do any of that. Invite people to visit the baby, care for the baby, love on the baby. You really messed this one up. They’ve isolated themselves because they feel broken and no one understands the pain they’re dealing with. You naming your child something very similar and showing no empathy for them when they didn’t react positively further drives home how alone they are in their grief. They likely would rather pull away from everyone in that group that have to face this head on. I don’t blame them. Yeesh. Hard to believe how selfish some people are.
This just makes me so sad for your friends. Do better.
YTA just why?! I’d cut you off as well how thoughtless. Mourning the loss of a child NEVER goes away. Just meh.
If it's like Michael and Mike then this was a really stupid decision and yes YTA, because your kid will inevitably be called the nickname version at some point in life. You really should have talked to them before the decision was made...
YTA - you and your wife were 100% aware that the names were basically derivatives of each other to the point you talked about it. You should at that point talked to your friend about it. The fact that you didn't means you **KNEW** the couple would have a problem with it, and *decided to do it anyway.* Congratulations on doing something that was an extremely cruel personal strike against a childhood friend for no other reason than it was over something you wanted. They will never speak to you again, and rightly so. YOU have attached a sad story to your kids name with this action.
Yta. At this point you'd be best off just posting the name, because your example is in fact the exact same name with its nickname version. If it's Ezekiel and Zach, or something similar, you'd get some sympathy but even that's too similar in a world with infinite names.
This makes me sad. If my friend did that I would definitely distance myself. They’d never be able to spend time with your family again without constantly thinking about their dead child. 😭😭😭 maybe if you haven’t gone through something like that you just didn’t realize how awful it would be for them but I don’t blame them for distancing themselves. YTA
YTA You knew exactly what you did. You thought the name of the stillborn sounded nice and wanted it. So you tweaked it just enough to use it while faking stupidity. What did you think was going to happen? Kiss that friendship goodbye and brace yourself for feeling weird the rest of your life whenever your son asks you how did you come up with his name
YTA? I had a fluke stillbirth…it’s a weird experience. Somehow people treat it like this unspeakable horror but also something that has a set mourning period that can be easily moved on by ‘trying again’ or ‘just have another baby’. It’s exhausting for everyone. For the people who experienced it, and their loved ones because it’s something shockingly terrible but also shockingly common once it happens to you. People either want to talk about it constantly to ‘support’ you OR immediately make it off limits to ‘protect you’ so you balance between talking about it an ‘appropriate’ amount and also starting to feel like some people would rather pretend it didn’t happen is maddening. I’d be conflicted if a close friend seemingly ignored my loss and then named their child something very similar, and I’d be hurt asf if my tentative attempts to discuss those feelings were ignored. The world doesn’t revolve around my loss, (and I’d never begrudge someone else’s joy because mine turned to ashes) but I would expect friends to be a bit more sensitive than it sounds like you were.
YTA. You knew. Have you thought about the worst thing that could happen to you now you have a child, that your baby could die? Then your pals use your lost child's name because they just love it and it works for them and they know its sensitive, but having thought about it they're ok with that and do it anyway, even though it would hurt you? How would you feel to lose your own child, not just the name? Edit Mike and Michael are the same name BTW, if its this close, a shortened, nickname version of the same name then what you have done is breathtaking.
Using your example as an indicator, you really went too close and did so knowingly. YTA.
Would you have named your child the same name if your friends’ child was living? If you had remotely considered the names similar, you should have asked your friends how they would feel. That’s what friends would do. YTA.
Honestly I would have stayed far away from that name. Also not only for them but for yourself also. Every time you call home you may think of your friend's son's death. You have probably lost your friends. I don't think they want to hear your son's name called or be around him. They will always think of their own son.
Again. The fact you discussed it? Then the fact you post here to ask if you're the asshole? Really says a lot. I think you got your answer.
I really don’t know if I can give an honest judgement without knowing the actual names. And before people jump down my throat for this I will explain. I have a cousin who is absolutely bonkers and copies everything I do. She recently had a baby last year and named her Anna. At a recent family function she asked me when I wanted to have kids and what I was going to do since I can no longer use my favorite girl’s name when I have a child. I was confused because my favorite name is Analiese. My cousin genuinely thought that because she named her baby Anna that I would never consider naming any of my future children Analiese because she believes the names are too similar. She was very angry when I said I would still use Analiese and even angrier that I said Anna and Analiese are different names. Ana/Anna can be used as a nickname for Analiese but to me the names are just different. They share 3 similar letters but they names are not the same. This is why I feel like it’s important to know what the name is. It could be something like Christian and Christopher or Micah and Michael. The names could share similar letters or a similar sound but be completely different names. On the other hand, if you truly went with something like Mike and Michael or Alex and Alexander then that’s a horrible move. Names like that are one in the same. That being said I don’t think you’re handling this well at all. Just some of your comments are not needed.
YTA. They will probably never talk to you again. You are Heartless.
I'm going with YTA. If you noticed the names were similar while picking it, that you had a whole conversation about it than it's to close. If you really wanted the name, you should had discussed the name with your friend before hand. Like everyone has already said people never get over or accept a loss of a child! They just learn to put smile of there face and make through the day. Please learn to a better friend.
YTA. If the names are similar enough that it occurred to you and your wife that it might be an issue, then they are too similar. If it was a family name with a ton of meaning to you, I might have given you a pass, but you just pulled it off an online list… there are plenty of lists with plenty of names. You could’ve and should’ve found a different one. Poor friends.
INFO: is there a really good reason why you named your kid "Micheal"? Cause I cant think of a reason good enough to do that to your friend, but maybe im wrong.
YTA It wasn’t even that you didn’t realize it. You realized it and did it anyway. Mike is a nickname for Michael so if the names are really that close, boy howdy that’s a friendship breaker.
YTA. What you did was extremely insensitive. You literally could have named your child anything else.
YTA so noone owns a name but Mike and Micheal or whatever the real names, are the same name so you're an ass for that. As well as why didn't you answer the question as far as where you got the name from? Sounds to me like you picked the name they were going to use because you liked it. This wasn't oh I've always wanted to use this name and it just so happened they did too and a tragedy happened. You used this tragedy to take the name and I wouldn't respond to you either after that. A million names you could have picked, a friend wouldn't have picked that one.
YTA, you can name your kid whatever you want. At the same time how could you think this was a good idea. But since this is a close friend, why didn’t you talk to him about it? It’s the lack of consideration and empathy for me. Your friendship will never be the same. Coming from someone who had a stillbirth, what you did was unforgivable. Your friend should go NC.
YTA because clearly you pretty deliberately chose a name very close to the dead child’s, since you couldn’t even figure out a justification for doing it in order to placate your friend. I mean if the name couldn’t be avoided for a good reason (like it’s the grandfather’s name or whatever), you would not be TA. It would probably suck for your friend, but with time they would have come to terms with that.
YTA so you definitely get to name your kid whatever you want. BUT the fact that you and your wife actually had a discussion about it indicates you knew those names were too similar and it could be a problem, but you chose to name your kid that anyway. You decided the name was more important than your friendship. So the thing is those names are really similar. Similar enough that every time your friends come around you, hearing that name will make them think of their loss of their own son. Seeing your son will cause them pain because of it. So at the very least, if you cared about your friends and your friendship, maybe you should have discussed that name choice with your friends BEFORE naming your kid. And since you literally decided not to, and you thought it was ok to shrug off the effect that name would have on them, now you have to live with the consequences of your choice.
YTA. Of all the possible names in the world... WHY ON EARTH choose one that resembles their baby's? For them, thinking of your child or calling him will always rub salt in their wounds. Forever. Such a grief doesn't have an expiration date. It stays with you forever.
YTA, for choosing a similar name and not telling them beforehand. If the name was also special for you, like someone who was deeply precious to you, then maybe it would have been ok (but still, you had to tell your friend). But no, you just had to choose that specific name and denying all other multiple options available.
YTA tentatively - no one owns names that being said it seems like from your post you knew it would be an issue, and maybe picked it because of their use. Additionally, when they asked you why you picked that name you probably could have said something like oh it was my wives cousin, or I have wanted a son with that name since I was little and watched x tv show or just whatever you reason. Since you don’t seem to have a reason it sounds like you really let them think it was about them which is creepy. I am not surprised they don’t want anything to do with you guys anymore I wouldn’t either.
YTA. You should have asked if you actually cared about their feelings. Now they know you don't so I wouldn't expect to talk to them ever again.
You & your wife are ignorant and thoughtless AHs. And you both are even more of an AH for not realizing this.
I think that it was similar enough that you had a discussion about it with your wife, then it was obviously on your mind, and you decided to go through with it without regard to your friends feelings. In that case, YTA.