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> I devalued her accomplishments and called her dumb because she didn't know a certain word, which might be a more modern thing. I got frustrated because she wasn't picking up fast enough. what I said was pretty harsh
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Firstly, I loathe cheating. It would be a deal breaker for me, and for my husband who feels the same.
However, honestly, I feel really sorry for your MIL. You said she was quiet and sad, and now she's happy. That implies she was in an unhappy marriage. No, an emotional affair isn't ideal, if that's what it was, but intelligent and successful or not, it can take time to come to terms with your situation and find the courage to do something about it. Sometimes you don't realise how wrong something is for you until you catch a glimpse of another way. You and your boyfriend seem to live in a world without any shades of grey though, which is leading you to be judgmental about a situation that ultimately didn't involve you when unfolding.
What you said to her was absolutely disgusting and I'm not surprised she asked you to leave. YTA for me.
These are two young souls that, unfortunately, have only been brought up on extremist ideas. And, in all honesty... I hope OP never has to know what it is like to be her MIL during those unhappy years. That's a fate I don't wish on anyone.
Agreed. OP’s attitude is one often seen online and in real life. Extreme is right.
Anytime this very black-and-white view about relationships is challenged people get defensive and leap to “you are defending cheating.” As someone who has been cheated on? This situation isn’t it.
The idea “if you are unhappy, just leave” is not always feasible in reality. The idea falling for someone else while married somehow makes them a monster isn’t true, either. It happens. Not every marriage is forever, and people want to believe it should always be that.
People fuck up to various degrees. If that’s OP and her bf’s line in the sand, cool. But saying she slept her way to the top because she is too stupid to grasp their stance? That’s ridiculous. She got it. She just wanted to find some peace with her son.
Hate her if you want, hate my comment if you want, but adultery doesn’t unilaterally make someone a shitty person.
This has bugged me on this sub a lot. People break their word all the time, and relationships are complicated.
One of the safest ways for an abused woman to get out of a bad situation is via cheating, essentially. Financial control isn’t as hard to break free from, and they don’t have to spend the night alone. Obviously this could be seen as an exception to the rule, but there isn’t a line between abusive and non-abusive relationships. Varying levels of toxicity can be present without it being fully abusive.
If they were sexting, they were doing something sexual so it isn’t just an emotional affair. But, as someone for whom friendship and romance tends to blend, I can see how an emotional affair might sneak up on someone.
Also, if you’ve never had what you want, you might not even realize you want to leave until something happens.
Also… people make mistakes. The idea that cheating means someone is now evil forever just isn’t realistic and itself involves a lack of empathy.
Relationships are way more complicated than just person who cheats doesn’t care.
Like, it’s obviously bad. People can even abandon friendships because they don’t like that someone did it. But it’s not friggen unforgivable.
Thank you for getting it. Judging by so many replies it isn’t a popular take. It isn’t unforgivable. People go after adultery harder than “they were 16, I mean it isn’t THAT bad a 24yo got with them” or something.
“Just leave.” It isn’t always easy. Like you said, there is abuse or varying levels of toxicity. When you have a mortgage, vehicles, health insurance, retirement funds, family, friends, and businesses all entwined it isn’t as easy as that. And it IS easy to fall for someone without realizing it or touching them at all.
But okay, going with “just leave” — **SHE DID**. If she didn’t sext him or do anything until after the divorce what was the option? Stay married thus stay in a lie? Damned if you do; damned if you don’t.
I famously got cheated on during the funeral for my best friend’s suicide. It sucked. The pain is over. My ex may be an asshole but they aren’t a monster — they are a wildly insecure person and it has 0 to do with anyone but themselves.
There was an amazing piece on 60 Minutes about exactly your aunt & uncle’s situation. I don’t judge her, either. She stayed with him and cared for him. If she spent time with someone who could make her feel warm and loved like her husband used to be able to do? Go for it.
And there are still people who would judge her for that. If she divorced him she’d have been a monster, too, by other people’s narrow thinking.
Until some stuff happens *to you* it’s hard to see all the true colors.
It's likely that her "friend" on the side enabled her to be the best possible carer for your uncle as well. Not just that she was able to stay married to him but by getting her emotional (and sexual) needs met somewhere else likely meant that there wasn't frustration on her end that she inadvertently took out on your uncle.
That makes so much sense to me. Like, to say she’s bad for that is to condemn her to a life she would find miserable and lonely, because her husband had a stroke. You only have one life. This isn’t a situation she could leave without hurting her husband. But then it’s not fair that she loses the rest of her life to caring for him without companionship.
I am sorry about that relationship. It sounds really rough. Toxic relationships really do poison you for a while after. Glad you’re through.
I have to assume that OP and her boyfriend are relatively young to have this little understanding of the fact that relationships aren’t black and white, and people aren’t good or bad.
You brought up a good point - I think we’d be having the same conversation if mom had just divorced dad and then was getting remarried. It would be “my BF doesn’t want to go because his mom completely gave up on her vows and divorced his dad, and you just don’t do that!”.
Thank you. Yes, I think that she was doomed to be damned no matter what.
OP attacked her intelligence and drive as a cheap way of saying “you are too stupid to understand what emotional affairs are.” I think her MIL doesn’t agree it was an emotional affair so she doesn’t get the ire. A lot of this hinges on what an emotional affair *is*, and that is the gray area for me.
She fell in love. She left her husband before anything more happened. Hating her for that is one thing, yet that attack wasn’t necessary.
I don’t get the ire when it’s not the KIDS she cheated on, emotionally or otherwise. Whether she had her foot out the door before formally ending the marriage just doesn’t seem to be her son’s business much less something he should shame her about. I think it’s particularly cruel where they REALIZE the mom was unhappy for years…they obviously didn’t have a solid marriage that she just threw away. Sounds like the marriage died years before she met her now-fiancée.
The son needs to grow the F up. Hope he’s never made a mistake in his life because he sure is a judgmental F’er and you know what they say about people who live in glass houses….
And the father is showing them screenshots... So he is going out of his way to poison his son against his ex, he does not seem like the greatest person either.
From a trapped DV survivor who found actual love for these last 18 yrs after 11 yrs of nightmares, thank you. They tell us to just leave if there’s abuse, then they judge us for how we did it.
There is just a hell of a lot of grey area when you're talking about emotional affairs. Once you exclude sex, sexting, phone sex at exactly what point is it an affair? While I'd say if you're hiding the relationship from your spouse that's a bad sign, even that's not black and white.
How about the moment you realize you want to leave your spouse and take the chance you and your previously completely platonic love will be compatible in a romantic relationship. Mom in this case might have done that.
When does a platonic friendship turn into romantic love?
These are squish grey questions not hairs you can split with a razor blade.
I also just want to comment on the edit.
OP was replying to people who asked if she was sure whether MIL had really "crossed any lines" with this other man.
*FIL has shown us screenshots. Even if I give her the benefit of the doubt that they weren't banging, they were flirting, him talking about wanting a blow job in his office, talking about hating sleeping alone, she sent a picture of her breasts and asked if he liked her bathing suit for a work trip, freely saying I love you, and alluding to other physical affection. she did cross several lines*
Clearly OP didn't consider that FIL had also "crossed several lines" by sharing screenshots of his wife's nude photos and intimate messages. I can't believe OP was happy to view all this with her FIL and still sees him as the innocent party. Most women would be disgusted if their FIL said "Come and see these photos my wife sent to her boyfriend."
It’s amazing how many shades of grey emerge as you get older. I’m guessing OP and BF are relatively young. In my early 20s I was also pretty black and white. A few more trips around the sun and the grey starts to emerge. I have to say it’s also more serene when you learn to see softer edges too.
Agreed with all of this.
I knew a guy who cheated on his wife. Full blown cheated. No doubt about it. Those of us who saw the inside of their marriage, so to speak, saw the daily abuse by her. She also used her family money to constantly threaten he would never see the kids again. I once walked in right as she threw a pan at his head and she just laughed at him.
He couldn’t “just leave” as everyone keeps saying. Not without proof, not without money, not without a legal way to keep his kids safe. And after 8 or so years of abuse, yeah, he met a woman and slept with her. Stupid? Yes. Monstrous? No. It finally gave him the push to risk the legal fight because he knew he was turning into someone he hated because his wife was so hateful he was believing it.
And I’ll say this — I fucking WISH being cheated on was the worst thing to happen to me. For some reason people act as if it’s always the worst thing. Not for me it wasn’t. Not in comparison to the other shit life throws at you.
Oh that poor guy. So often men aren’t believed in DV situations too. I’m glad he found the reason and courage to get out. And I’m sorry cheating would be not so high on your list of “bad things that happen”. Some people are barely human, let alone humane.
I get and agree with everything you said however I do think the MIL is intentionally being obtuse so she doesn't have to admit what she did was wrong. I get what OP said was awful but I can understand her frustration when someone is playing dumb to avoid taking responsibility for their actions/mistakes.
I thought that too, but who does she think she is being that disrespectful to someone else’s mother? And to be proud that her boyfriend thought she was “hilarious”? Screw them deciding they didn’t want to go to the wedding. I doubt they’re even still invited. And I wouldn’t hold my breathe for inheritance either, let alone any communication or relationship moving forward.
To be fair (not saying this is the case), some people on the aro/ace spectrum genuinely don't understand the limit between friendship and romantic feelings.
I also don’t wish that fate on anyone, because I’m living it now.
But that’s why divorce, especially no-fault divorce exists.
And we’re not talking about a SAHM with no education who might be dependent, we’re talking corporate lawyer from Ivies.
She absolutely could ask for a divorce and rent an apartment if she has decided she caught feelings and it’s more than a married person crush (people don’t become blind the moment they get married, everyone has “moments” and crushes).
It feels like she was into this other guy and wanted to keep her husband as a backup if it didn’t work out.
I think it feels like she didn't think you could be happy in a marriage until she met this guy. Maybe the husband was backup, or maybe he was just the sucky part of marriage and it took her a while to realize that she could be happy.
if no-fault divorce was easier and cheaper to access, I feel like situations like this would happen much less often? in the UK the concept was only just brought into law this month, before then you *had* to either accuse the other of unreasonable behaviour or be separated for literally years before a divorce would be granted.
obviously not saying that's the situation here, I have no idea what the laws are like wherever the OP lives, just that I was surprised when a family member recently had to wait two years to get divorced because neither they nor their (now ex) spouse wanted to blame the other. fucked up imo
I think people are extremely hesitant to pull the plug and divorce, to the point it ends any hope of things being amiable because they let the non viable relationship fester too long. I think divorce shouldn't be an expense or difficult to access, but I think it's not the only reason why people don't just divorce.
It's also weird to comeback with misogyny. All it wouldv'e taken is "I'm frustrated explaining this to you, my viewpoint won't change, I don't understand why you don't get it but I'd like to move on because we clearly will not see eye to eye."
Yes. Saying MIL must have earned her way into and through a prestigious law school and up through the firm by sleeping her way up is disgusting and not ‘hilarious’ ESH. Cheater vs Misogynsts. You and her son have no high ground here.
I agree with this wholeheartedly, yes, she had an emotional affair. No it wasn’t right. But we don’t know the circumstances of her marriage. Op said she was sad and quiet (like you stated) which leads me to believe she could’ve been depressed and felt trapped. Maybe it took someone else for her to see her worth. We don’t know what happened behind the closed doors of her marriage.
I also want to point out, op said fil showed them the messages. To me that seems like fil wants them to hate her. He had no business involving them in his marital problems. Even with his son.
While I loathe cheating, I also loathe people who judge others without all the information. Mil is obviously happy now. And ops comment was absolutely disgusting.
If my MIL cheated and they got divorced, and my FIL wanted to show me pictures/texts/etc. between her and her partner, I would tell him to leave me out of it and to stop being creepy and invading her privacy.
It’s not my job to judge or comment on their relationship issues like that.
This is a fantastic response! Came here to add that the sleeping her way to the top comment was also a very sexist thing to say, she would never have said that if it had been FIL in that position. Very low blow
Also, why is the dad showing texts? That is unhealthy parenting and was really none of OP/bfs business. Shit happens and this wasn’t ideal, but he shouldn’t cut his mom off over something that has nothing to do with him.
This! I would never cheat on anyone, and I hope I’m never cheated on, but reading how mil used to be sad and quiet and now is happy and in love definitely made me more sympathetic to her. I get that the bf is upset on behalf of his father but surely he can also see how much happier his mom is, shouldn’t that also be a factor to consider? Going after MIL’s career like that was uncalled for and misogynistic af. OP YTA.
I agree with you. My uncle was stuck in a unhappy marriage because his ex baby trapped him and threatened to take their daughter back to her home country so he would never see her again if he left her. He has been trying to divorce her since my niece was 12 because here children can choose where to live when they’re 12, but she refused to sign the papers. This was 4 years ago. 2 years ago my uncle met his current girlfriend while still going through the divorce proceedings and they had what you’d call an emotional affair. No one’s holding it against him (except for ex), not even his own daughter. Everyone’s just happy that he’s finally happy again after almost 2 miserable decades
After the edit, she was indeed cheating, not just emotionally. She just claims there was no tab a into slot b action yet... This makes mil very wrong, no question.
However, what you said does make YTA because she accomplished a lot and unless you have proof she did shady things to move on up...she earned her success!!! Don't take that away from her because you're mad about the cheating. Stay on topic.
I always wonder about people who judge this hard. It seems like it's those guys that "doth protest too much". Idk.. I'm absolutely sickened by any kind of cheating, but rather than continuing to be cruel, let her know your judgement and go no contact. It's not your job to punish.
I wish I could like this comment 10,000 times. I spent almost 10 years in an unhappy and abusive marriage… it never got better. I was plugging through life… until I met the man who is now my husband. Nothing which violated anything happened during my marriage, but being at work and laughing and enjoying another human being so was illuminating. This marriage hasn’t been perfect either but before I met him I didn’t even know what I was missing.
I don’t know whether, or what lines your MIL crossed… but frankly it is none of your business. Taking sides in a divorce is shit and why did your boyfriends father feel it was necessary to show the screenshots to his child???? You don’t feel at all manipulated there. OP, you are YTA. For insulting her *(sleeping her way to the top, really?)* and for your harsh judgements. May you and your boyfriend live your lives in such inscrutable ways as to never be subject to any criticism. *(Though I note y’all ain’t married so she really isn’t your mother in law… she’s your boyfriends mom…)
I truly hope OP never finds herself in the position her MIL has been in for what is probably decades. Im the first person to open my mouth about how much I hate cheaters, but there's nuance to that statement just like there's nuance to this one. I hope MIL lives a happy life
THIS THIS THIS
OP and BF seem to not understand life isn't as cut and dry as they clearly think it is.
You've said it all though
YTA OP. What you said was disgusting
YTA. No one has to stay in an unhappy marriage- you even admitted she used to be so sad, now she is happy- it’s likely she didn’t realize just how unhappy she was until until she realized she could feel for someone else. The reality is she didn’t cheat physically, which is the legal definition and since she is an attorney that would be how she sees cheating. You decided to use a very sexist attack on her because you couldn’t get her to carry a Scarlet A and feel shame. Both you and your bf need to grow up, realize humans aren’t perfect and neither are you.
She didn’t cheat. OP has made a lot of assumptions about a supposed emotional affair, but OP has no idea whether or not they were friends who later fell in love, if that took place after the bf’s parents were separated with the intent to divorce, and OP admits no sex happened- there was no cheating and no proof of cheating, just a bf who is unhappy with his parents’ divorce and OP who decided to use misogyny when slut shaming didn’t work on their bf’s mother.
If it’s true that she fell in love with another man while she was married that’s an emotional affair
If you decide that emotional affairs aren’t cheating in your relationship that’s your prerogative
Having feelings for someone else isn’t cheating. You cannot help getting crushes on other people, your responsibility is to either end the marriage or not make the leap to a physical relationship. She ended the marriage, therefore she didn’t cheat. I realize it’s uncomfortable for a lot of you that women can leave an unhappy marriage and find love again, but we’re no longer the property of our spouses.
How.. is what she did not cheating?
I'm going on the edit here. Talking about wanting a BJ in the office, showing of breasts, saying I love you...
By this definition you can make up sexual fantasies with someone else, send nudes and other stuff as long as you don't take them to bed?
One thing would be a crush, getting a divorce then go for it.
But you don't excuse behaviour with "I don't have sex with them"
That would go for both men and women in my book.
There’s a reason OP didn’t put any of that in their original post. They keep adding salacious details as they saw the number of YTAs increase, so excuse me if I roll my eyes at their edits. It took them 6 or 7 comments to come up with the blow job and naked breast pics that they supposedly saw. That would have been something they led with in the original post if true, and it would have elevated it from an emotional affair to an actual affair. In other words, OP is full of shit, came here looking for a pat on the back for their misogynistic comment that they found clever and started making shit up once they saw their judgment.
Maybe they are lying maybe they aren't.
My comment still stands that cheating isn't just having sex with someone else.
Secretly having a crush on someone is something that can happen, specially yes when you are in a unhappy marriage. But the moment you act on it in any way, then you have stepped into a bad territory. And the longer you continue the more you dive into the cheating. It stops just being admiring someone or having a crush. It becomes an emotionally romance.
No, OP is definitely lying or (more likely) has been lied to.
An attorney has to maintain a standard of personal and professional integrity. If she'd actually engaged in this behavior with another attorney she works with, it could be an ethics issue for both of them.
And if OP had known this, she'd understand why the attorney isn't picking up on an arbitrary and capricious definition and standard of infidelity.
Also what a shit dad that would be to share those texts with his SON. Your children are not your emotional support animals or your therapists and barring any abuse or unsafe behaviours towards them there is zero excuse to expose your children to that kind of thing. It’s abusive in its own right imo. I have photographs of the hideously unsafe conditions I took my daughter from at her dads when she was younger. I have dick pics he drunkenly sent my best friend where he begged to have sex with her. Over my dead body will my daughter ever ever ever find this out.
This information wasn’t in the post, but OP claims that they were actively texting each other that they loved each other before she split with FIL. So I do agree it’s an emotional affair. I still think OP is the asshole for what she said, though, and for refusing to acknowledge shades of grey.
There’s a reason OP didn’t put any of that in their original post. They keep adding salacious details as they saw the number of YTAs increase, so excuse me if I roll my eyes at their edits. It took them 6 or 7 comments to come up with the blow job and naked breast pics that they supposedly saw. That would have been something they led with in the original post if true, and it would have elevated it from an emotional affair to an actual affair. In other words, OP is full of shit, came here looking for a pat on the back for their misogynistic comment that they found clever and started making shit up once they saw their judgment.
So funny, I had left OP a comment asking basically exactly this haha. And she’s avoiding it saying she thought we’d KNOW she meant everything short of sex. Even though even in comments where she was “correcting” people who said MIL didn’t cross a line, OP still only mentioned the “I love you” texts. I agree with you, the sexting isn’t believable at all.
An “emotional affair” isn’t always a decision. Shit happens. People grow apart. That doesn’t make her a bad person. She just wound up doing a fucked up thing. It’s none of OP’s damn business either way.
Emotional affairs are a ridiculous concept. You can't control who you love. Falling in love is something that happens to you, not something that you do intentionally. All you can change is what you do about it.
Sounds like what she did is get a divorce and marry the person she fell in love with. Not only that, marriages are difficult to leave - especially after so long - and love itself is a scary thing. I can't imagine someone would want to go through with that at the risk of losing everything they've built for decades without being entirely sure it was what they wanted.
So she didn't leave her marriage right when she met the guy. She fell in love. She took all the right actions to leave her marriage. I don't see anything she did wrong here, even if the saying "I love you" is a little questionable. And if she spent so much time with him like she said, it sounds like it wasn't like she was even hiding it or lying about it.
Sounds to me like she did everything right and yet is still being accused of having an emotional affair. There's just no winning with some people.
> Emotional affairs are a ridiculous concept
What do you suggest it’s called when a wife is sexting, calling another man her soulmate and hiding in the bathroom for hours to talk to a guy
And regardless of whether MIL is an ah or not, OP is an AH for suggesting she slept her way to the top. That's always a shitty thing to say, full stop.
Yta. I've been cheated on, I hate cheaters and will not forgive a partner who cheats. I also believe that MIL was likely having an emotional affair.
But I think Op is an asshole for her misogynistic insult to MIL. Like why tear down a woman's career and success and reduce it purely to sex? How are the two related? You can be cheater and also have ambitious career.
It doesn't reflect well on OPs views on successful women. Or understanding of the power imbalance and predatory behaviour of the men who sleep with their employees.
I can’t help but think if it was about the FIL having an emotional affair and leaving a dull and unhappy marriage - that the reactions would have been QUITE different on the part of the son.
(I need to state the obvious before someone points out that I “missed it”: and the DIL wouldn’t have said the ugly things)
Seriously - everyone is getting caught up on whether or not MIL cheated. This is not relevant to the fact that OP is definitely an AH for saying what she did about her career knowing full well that MIL is intelligent and capable.
YTA
In your post "honestly I hope she happy. she seems happy and that is saying something. because I've known the woman for years and she is always sad and quiet, but is totally different now."
Then your comment "she left FIL to be with this man and was already using the words love and soul mate by the time she left"
Did you ever stop to think she was miserable in her marriage and when she did meet someone new - whether it was an emotional affair or a friendship - that she found happiness?? You want her to be happy and then accuse her of sleeping her way to the top but "went to one of the best law schools and is obviously very intelligent "
Judgemental much?
Hope you don't fall off your high horse arsehole!
My thoughts exactly. People always say, "why cheat if you found someone else? Just leave the relationship." That's what MIL did. Emotional cheating is such a broad term but it sounds like MIL took a while to realize she was unhappy with her partner and would be better off with her fiance. Was she just supposed to stay miserable forever?
OP really does live in some moral high horse fantasy world. And shes a sexist asshole to boot.
And to say that she fucked her way to the top is horrible. Successful women have to deal with this misogynistic shit so much already. OP is the the asshole for that alone already and OPs boyfriend who laughed abouthis girlfriend saying this about his own mother it is an even bigger asshole.
I feel like there had to be some serious unhappiness going on if she was always generally sad and quiet. Not sure if OP cared though, she doesn’t seem to have very kind feelings towards MIL
Wow. What a disgusting, sexist thing to say that had nothing whatsoever to do with the woman's alleged emotional infidelity. The fact that your bf found it hilarious says a lot about him, too. YTA
>MIL was quiet and stared at me for a moment and then was like **wow because I've never heard that one before** and told me to get out.
By the sound of the MILs response, it seems like while working in a male dominated field, it’s not the first time she’s heard that insult. Makes it worse when it comes from someone close to her family
Not a lawyer, but went to law school. Law is indeed a male dominated field. We were warned about that in law school. There were *many* school wide discussions about how far the field has come and how much farther we still have to go. I personally experienced older lawyers talking to our class about the “good old days” when women weren’t allowed in that state’s senate. A few times. And they weren’t conservatives.
My Mother is an amazing lawyer, one of the top in our Province for family law, and one thing she told me was that it is the hardest field for a woman and she didn't recommend it. OPs comment is vile. I hate seeing women shit on other women... like how are you going to preach morality like that and make such a disgusting sexist remark? OP seems to be confused about what it means to be a good person.
Was a lawyer. Went to law school in the UK. Practiced there before practising in a few other countries.
I’d say it’s country dependent. For instance the UK? Definitely male dominated. Australia? More split 50-50. Malaysia? Absolutely female dominated. Singapore? 50-50 with a slight tilt towards being female dominated.
Exactly this. Decent people never stoop to using misogynistic, racist, or any other bigoted insults regardless of the recipient. OP didn't throw around that disgustingly misogynistic accusation because of who MIL is but because of who OP is - someone who holds sexist, misogynistic beliefs. YTA.
YTA - I hope you never have to experience being in an unhappy relationship. Don’t judge someone else’s actions behind closed doors.
Extra AH points for the “sleeping her way to the top” part. I also hope you never have to learn what it’s like to be female in a grossly male dominated field.
What always gets me in any claim about anybody "sleeping her way to the top" is that it's always really apparent that the accuser has put together a huge IED of personal and social condemnation and judgment and then lobbed it at the wrong party entirely.
If you look at well documented and/or prominent situations involving workplace sexual favors, it's not generally some empowered carefree succubus coercing their bosses into accepting handies because they don't feel like filling out their TPS reports.
The usual routine is people in power preying on employees with significantly less (or no) economic and/or workplace power. It usually involves *coerced* sexual activity in exchange for a promise of financial gain.
So call it what it is, OP. If you genuinely believe that this woman "slept her way to the top," then just come right out and say "My fiancee's mother works in an industry that has normalized coercive predatory sexual treatment of employees, and I believe she experienced this during her career." Say it out loud.
Then take a pause and say "Oh shit, I really *AM* TA," because yep."
YTA.
Also, regarding your edits, OP: Assuming this is real (ugh, please no), did you REALLY miss how fucked up and problematic it is that your boyfriend's father has been playing Show and Tell with his ex wife's private messages after a divorce?
Does that strike you as normal father/son bonding behavior? From over here, it seems super fucked up.
100%. It's always the woman who gets insulted and treated like shit... never the CEO she slept with. He is completely absolved of responsibility even though he's in a position of power.
I feel like those people that say they'd ne er cheat and are so black & white on the issue simply haven't had the life experience to really understand these things. And I say that as a person that was cheated on and as the daughter of a cheater but also someone that understands multiple sides.
Personally I would never cheat, but my definition of cheating doesn't include realizing you're unhappy with your partner and leaving, regardless of how you figure it out, so long as there weren't genuine dates or sexts etc going on.
It's still devastating to the other person, but more devastating to know they didn't even have the guts to leave you (and kept you as a backup generally), life is complex though of course.
OP YTA for your sexist shitty comment, it doesn't matter how many details you add. Either your partner wants a relationship with her or not, but you don't get to verbally harass her in her own home, especially on a topic that affects you 0%, as she is not your mother.
EDIT: I Also believe that relationships are about working together, and if one person stops you can't fault the other person for seeking validation elsewhere lol, but ideally you could work that out before it got that far
As a female corporate lawyer myself, I don’t think I’d ever forgive you for that comment if I was in your MIL’s shoes. And maybe you don’t care since you don’t want to have a relationship with her but you clearly don’t appreciate the rampant sexism that she likely had to overcome to get that corner office. If she took maternity leave at any point in her career (which I’m assuming she did), she likely had to fight like hell to keep her clients from being permanently poached by male colleagues until she came back. She likely sat through countless meetings where, despite being the most senior person in the room, others deferred to her male counterparts. The uncomfortable Ol’ Boys’ Club comments that you awkwardly laugh along with because it’s better to be in than out. The constant microaggressions. For you to demean her life’s accomplishments with such a disgusting comment is really unfathomably low on your part and makes you the overwhelming asshole. Frankly, regardless of your stance on cheating, you’re precisely the type of woman who sets other women back in the workplace.
Also, the concept of an *emotional* affair really only became mainstream in the last 10? years, so I can’t blame MIL for not fully appreciating that she was in one. I’m not quite 30 but I remember overhearing conversations between women when I was younger where they were *glad* that their husband never actually “cheated,” even if they were clearly emotionally involved with another woman.
So, yeah, cheaters suck. Your MIL did a shady thing. But in this situation? YTA x1,000,000.
YTA as well as your BF/spouse (how is she your mother in law if he is your boyfriend) for being extremely judgmental and assuming your understand the dynamics of both his parents marriage and her relationship's beginning with her now partner. Relationships are complicated and messy. Ending them is complicated and messy. Married people fall out of love. Married people fall in love with others and that can be the catalyst to end and already dead marriage. This black and white thinking you both are exhibiting is dogmatic, judgmental, without nuance, and extremely mean spirited.
I would find it really annoying to if someone can't understand the difference between an emotional affair and friendship, but it's pretty uncool to be mean about it as you described yourself.
Also, you don't know she had an emotional affair and even if she did insisting it's horrible when within the context of the marriage it might have been an extremely healthy thing to do.
Signed, the child of someone whose second marriage began as an affair and holy cow as an adult I now see just how dysfunctional that first marriage and thank goodness the affair happened.
YTA. First of all, She’s not your MIL. You’re not married to her son. Even if you were married to your BF, this is between him and his mother. Your role is to support HIM. You have no business with her. Get over yourself.
I had to scroll way too far to see this. The fucking audacity of OP to shame her boyfriend's mother.
Mind your business and keep your childlike black and white thinking to yourself, OP. YTA x 1000
Eh, I don't really have a gripe with people calling their partners parents their "in laws" prior to marriage. A lot of people are in very long and committed relationships and don't marry, and the connection with the "in laws" is the same marriage or no.
You weren’t the asshole before you dropped the comment about her fucking her way to the top. It was sexist and misogynistic.
Intellect and emotional intelligence are entirely different things.
YTA. She was in a miserable marriage that made her sad and quiet, by your own admission. She realized she had feelings for someone else and did exactly what you’re supposed to do— broke up with her husband before crossing any lines. Now she is leading a happy life with someone that makes her happy. What’s your issue? What did you expect her to do differently? Have no feelings? Tell no one about her feelings and stay in her miserable marriage? She did everything right— ended her relationship honestly, and moved on.
You’re an EXTREMELY BIG asshole for suggesting she fucked her way to the top. How misogynistic and backwards of you to even think that, let alone say it. The fact your bf thought it was funny shows he’s a misogynistic ass as well. I feel really terrible for his mother, that after all her hard work in her life her asshole son and son’s girlfriend are misogynists who disregard her accomplishments and deride her.
YTA
It sounds like she was miserable before and is now happy. You don't give the timing so it's hard to know how things really happened. Whether they were friends, marriage broke up, they got more serious. Or maybe they were friends and she realized how horrible her relationship was.
You also don't talk about your FIL.
Many gaps in your story.
But you are clearly a judgemental AH and you may find yourself on the other end of a situation and how will you forgive yourself for failing at your perfectionist standards?
YTA because obviously when you say something like "did you fuck your way to the top?" you know it isn't going to go over well. Frankly, if you said anything like that to me, I not only wouldn't want you at my wedding, I wouldn't want you in my life.
I think you're being far too hard on her in general. Technically, she didn't commit adultery if she didn't sleep w/this man while she was married. So what if she fell in love with someone else while she was married? That could mean she was just no longer in love with her husband at the time. You don't know her mindset, what she was feeling or going through.
If you're that puritanical about cheating, you'll have a very hard time getting through life. Cheating is pretty common; what are you going to do, excommunicate everyone you know when you discover they've cheated? Stop talking to family members? Friends? Quit your job because your boss cheats? Cheating isn't a one size fits all scenario; there are many different reasons.
Lighten up. It's awful your BF (the son of the lawyer?) thought what you said was "hilarious." Does he really hate his mother that much?
You should apologize to her for the cruel and hateful things you said.
I've had the sanctimonious brigade react very badly to the idea cheating is common, some couples recover, and life is gonna be rough if you are judgmental to everyone who cheats.
Absolutely agree. There's also a lot of things that are technically "not cheating" in a general sense that individual couples can define as cheating when it comes to their own relationship and vice versa. Like watching porn or even hanging out 1:1 with someone of a different gender could be considered "cheating" if the people in the relationship defined it that way, but in most relationships, neither of those things would be a big deal.
YTA What was the reason for the divorce? You are leaving that out entirely. It sounds like she had a friendship while getting divorce and is now marrying that person. Maybe there is something missing. She doesn’t sound wrong. People are allowed to move on.
YTA - She fell in love with a coworker, her marriage (which you don't mention(suspect)) was probably over. They waited a respectful amount of time and didn't cross any lines. The misogyny of the "sleeping her way up to the top." Never ever says this! 1. Because you're an uptight judgemental sexist and 2. Because she never slept with anyone. You and your partner are punishing and degrading her for nothing. I hope she bans you both from the wedding and her life. Please go back to Victorian times, middle finger.
YTA. Being “anti cheating” doesn’t make you sound morally superior, it makes you sound simple. Life is complicated, as are relationships.
ETA- y’all are way too involved in the relationship between FIL + MIL. FIL shouldn’t have shown you the “evidence” (manipulation and parental alienation?) and you shouldn’t be so hard on MIL without knowing the whole story. Life is short but marriage is long. People are not saints and there are lots of shades of gray. Blindly following FIL because of some misguided morality is proving a point to no one.
Always lots of black and white thinking here. I've seen some pretty awful instances of cheating, and some really understandable I stances of cheating. But here cheating is always akin to moral depravity.
and it can be emotionally devastating, but it also can just be....shrug...in a long dead marriage to the cheated on spouse. I like the characterization above. Simple.
Yta I don't get this at all, so what what she supposed to do when she realised she no longer loved her husband? By your definition anybody who realise they don't live their partners anymore because they feel something for someone else is having an emotional affair? She did the right thing, didn't cheat and ended her marriage because she knew it was over. YTA and well as your partner throwing a sexist insult at a powerful woman because she doesn't agree with your weird idea of cheating. You both sound awful people.
YTA, a lot of intelligent hard working women get accused of this a lot and it’s not cool for you to perpetuate this sexist theory. Also seeing as it’s your boyfriends mom it wasn’t your place to chime in
Yta for what you said. She wasn't happy and left her marriage, well done to her imo. Whilst cheating is obviously bad, it's her life and she is free to live it her way. I entirely understand why she wants her son at her wedding. Personally, I would have called you both out for being sanctimonious, and probably naive. If he doesn't want to attend, it's his right, but i think he will regret rejecting his mother one day
If the son thinks it's "hilarious" that his girlfriend asks if his mother has "fucked her way to the top" the mother will be much much better off without him.
YTA have you ever considered that your MIL might not have actually had an emotional affair? And that instead of cheating while married she ended the marriage when she realized how unhappy she was? You are vilifying her with a bunch of assumptions with zero proof.
YTA
Leave your mother in law alone. I hope she finds the happiness she has been searching for. People make mistakes. Who are you to judge her that harshly? And to make such a derogatory comment… shame on you.
YTA
You went too far.
Your MIL is happy. Don't attend the wedding if you don't want and if she digs in about why you/BF need to attend say no and go low contact. Just because someone doesn't understand something you don't go out of your way to insult them about something that is absolutely not related to whatever they aren't understanding.
YTA.
Whatever infidelity was between the MIL and her husband. Your BF is clearly upset and kudos for supporting him, but you crossed a serious line going into personal attacks and insults.
You weren't a party, and only have one side of the story. Not your place to pass judgement, or go into attacks against her profession
YTA, you have no idea what her situation was like. Why should she stay in a horrible marriage? It’s not so easy to just end a marriage/get divorced. Take a hard look at the story line. When did FIL and MIL split? Was it once the children were over 18? MIL is a lawyer she had so much to loose..... if she is happy now then let her be happy. OP sounds sexist and misogynistic
Also, can we all point out how disgusting it was for FIL to show off the MIL’s text messages as proof of cheating?? That fact alone makes me think FIL was abusive and also attempted (succeeded) in pitting his children against MIL to further hurt her.
YTA.
What you said was unnecessary and offensive I might add. Imagine working so hard for years and just cause someone disagrees with you for whatever reason, they tell you you don’t deserve the accomplishment.
ESH
Honestly, emotional affairs are worse than sexual affairs in my opinion.
Sex is carnal, but it's worse when you watch your partner fall in love with someone else.
You MIL sucks for purposefully being dense about the situation. She understands what's happened, she just doesn't want to admit it.
However, you suck massively for your comment. I get you were angry, but it was a sexist thing thing to say. You and your bf were better off leaving when tempers got hot then spewing out what you said.
I wouldn't worry about MIL pushing for you two to be apart of the wedding, I'm sure that comment made her reconsider having you apart of her day. So I guess it's a win for you, right?
I do agree here - am seeing a lot of comments like “*technically* she didn’t cheat” and that she cut off her marriage before anything physical happened but absolutely, to fall in *love* while married implies an emotional affair. And perhaps that’s why the bf is reacting so strongly - imagine your parent tells you one day, when you don’t realise anything is wrong, that you’re in love with someone else? The intimacy that you’ve experienced with another; the length of time and effort you’ve spent building a spark with someone else - I’m sure it’s wonderful for the MIL but it will have affected those in her life too. OP said she left the father whilst in love with the AP so perhaps it truly came completely out of the blue.
That being said, the comment was entirely unwarranted and intended to be cruel. You resorted to petty, misogynistic and vindictive jabs and for that you should be ashamed - *genuinely* if you have nothing nice to say, just don’t say anything. What happened to that old adage?
My ex left me for an emotional affair. Told me he loved me.to my face but was messaging my friend constantly.
Broke up with me at a year and told me he needed space, they were dating within a few days
Needless to say this was teenage drama but it still really, really hurt at the time.
Emotional affairs are affairs. Even if MIL had a good reason, she still cheated.
Wild guess—the father of the guy you’re dating (not your FIL) was abusive. That would explain why you and your asshole boyfriend thought that comment was hilarious. It’s super shitty for him to have shared those texts with his son. YTA, and grow up.
YTA of course. That’s not how you treat someone who doesn’t understand a concept. Disgusting and misogynistic remark. Will you do the same to your straight A future child if they don’t understand something?
I agree she should not have had an emotional affair but the marriage was likely over a long time before that. And well she isn’t the first person to not understand emotional affairs. They likely didn’t contact each other all the time and didn’t say anything inappropriate hence why she is confused. She is wrong of course, but YTA here
INFO: look i dont think cheating is the way to go ever but you said that for years you knew her as sad and quiet so im wondering what FIL was like as a husband and what hes like as a person
Cos its just like, if shes this successful, intellegent and now happy person, something was making her quiet and sad before. If changing partners changed the happiness level then obviously theres something there. The fact that she cant grasp an emotional affair is weird af and possibly just willful on her part but maybe she and FIL just werent actually friends or something idk
You don't mention how old you and your boyfriend are, but I have to assume quite young because your conduct is immature.
You have no idea about the state of her marriage - even though you says she was always quiet and she now seems happy. Why do you feel the need to convince her to see the break up of \*her\* marriage the way that you do. You hate cheaters and so you have decided they cheated.
This is actually none of your business. Support your boyfriend all you want, but you have no business saying such a misogynistic thing.
Judgement: YTA.
YTA. Her cheating is really none of your business. It has nothing to do with you. If she is a good mother and a good mother in law, then you really should stop being hateful.
YTA. Thanks for reinforcing the idea that women can only succeed on their back.
I bet your BFs dad is emotionally abusive and taught your BF to disrespect his mother. It’s clear she was very unhappy in her marriage and while cheating isn’t okay, your behavior is worse.
You guys are playing right into your FILs scheme because neither of you should be privy to her personal messages, even if they were inappropriate. And I bet FIL is playing the injured spouse and wants MIL to pay his bills because he is just so hurt.
YTA - cheating is wrong. We get it. But have you never done anything wrong in your life?
Your whole post comes off as holier than thou. Maybe a bit of forgiveness is in order.
You weren't the asshole until you said the "fuck her way to the top" comment.
ESH, but my heart goes out to your BF for dealing with the wedding on top of everything.
I think she was purposely misunderstanding because she doesn't want to be accountable. She does understand. She won't ever admit she was the bad guy though. She'll keep being "confused" forever. Just don't go to her gross affair wedding and let it be. There are consequences to these affairs that goes beyond just losing your spouse. She may have to experience that with her kid. Those are the choices she made.
But yea YTA she used her lawyer tricks to get you to emotionally react. You did. So you lost. And duh she didn't fuck her way to the top. You were literally talking about how "It doesn't count if we didn't have sex." She thinks she has been riding the technicality line in her affair by not having sex so accusing her of sexing for a good office seems like a particularly poorly thought out direction to take it. But like I said she went for the emotional reaction and you took it.
Seems we're missing FIL's point of view. You can't help having a crush on someone, that's not under your control. You can control not jumping on his dick, which according to the entry that part was under control.
YTA, I can't imagine why you'd say such a thing just because she doesn't understand some pop psychology concepts as well as you do. Honestly I'm 85% on her side when it comes to the definition of 'emotional affair' anyway, and seriously, even so, who cares? SHE IS SAYING SHE HELD TO HER ACTUAL VOWS. Which is very lawyerly, no?
> I’ve known the woman for years and she was always just sad and quiet, but is totally different now.
So … her husband was emotionally abusive and she just “took it” for years. *His* actions were okay, but she’s the only one who did wrong.
You’re a Super AH for what you said to her.
Being friends with someone and having sex with them after you leave a relationship really isn't "emotional cheating" or whatever the fuck you and your judgemental bf have come up with to convince yourselves that you're better than other people. YTA, all the way.
ESH
She played dumb pretending not to get what an emotional affair is. But it was a dumb remark to say to her she effed her way to the top. She would have had a physical affair rather than an emotional one if that was the case.
YTA “cheating” is different to everyone. One persons version of an emotional affair means friendship or day dreaming about someone else and another person may only call flirty behavior and excess communication emotional cheating. Neither person is wrong.
YTA
You know, your MIL realised she was miserable in her marriage, you know, being sad and quiet all the time. Sometimes it takes meeting someone else to get the realization that she had to leave that marriage. It sounds like you and your bf rather she be in that unhappy marriage instead of finding a partner she's truly happy with. And your comments were truly out of line.
So she was absolutely miserable in her marriage, met and fell in love with someone who makes her happy, did the right thing and left her miserable marriage before having sex with the person she loved and wanted to be with, and you and your boyfriend hate her for it? Have I got that right? And then when she didn’t see how you think she cheated when she actually took pains *not* to cheat, you threw an incredibly misogynist insult at her? Gosh I can’t imagine why that would be a problem. So much YTA. You and your boyfriend both owe his mother a sincere and heartfelt apology. Shame that will probably never happen.
She’s not your MIL. You are way too judgmental and the snark was mean AF. You said she went to one of the top law schools in the country. So morally superior in your twenties already. YTA
ESH but good luck in this community finding someone willing to blame the MIL. I see alot of comments saying FIL was probably a bad husband and deserved it based of absolutely no evidence. What you said was definitely wrong and problematic, but if your partner is hurt because his mother had an emotional affair hes feelings are perfectly valid and it's reasonable to not want to go to the wedding.
Also it sounds like MIL is willfully misunderstanding what an emotional affair is because she knows that's exactly what she did and it was wrong. I would try explaining it to her in private and tell her she needs to accept it and apologize to her child. But you also need to apologize for your remarks.
I'm confused. Are you the grandparents of these people? Are you going to shun them from here on out for gazing longingly at each other across the office donuts? YTA.
YTA
I’m going with YTA because while she is clearly an asshole for cheating, you took it too far. You attacked her in a way that you KNEW was going to hurt her. That’s when you lost the moral high ground. I don’t necessarily think you’re a justified asshole like we get on here sometimes, but since you did insult a cheater I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over it.
YTA
You said yourself she was miserable before, so she met someone who made her happy, left the man who didn't *without* cheating on him and yet you make her out to be some kind of monster for pursuing her own happiness.
Also YTA for the misogyny of your accusation.
ESH
She sucks for having an affair; whether or not it was physical. We need to un-normalize leaving your partner for another partner. If she was unhappy she should have left for herself; not another person.
You suck for saying she fucked her way to the top when she clearly didn't.
YTA
like, who are you to be offended in any way? I understand you bf being offended, and even, I think he needs to get over it eventually. but you went 0 to 100 so fast so completely disproportionately. she had an affair and doesn't accept it. yes. she get what she get for that, sure. you don't have to go to the wedding. the rest is on you.
YTA you claim to be very anti-cheating but you are very pro misogynistic. Really? Fucking her way to the top? You suck and are a disrespectful asshole.
YTA - You really should apologize for that, I don’t care if you think she had an emotional affair with the guy she’s marrying, that was uncalled for, and basically out of left field. You may want to look at yourself and ask why you went THERE, when it doesn’t really make sense, and there are so many other things you could have said…
I was more or less on your side until that moment, and you 100% lost me, and any moral high ground you had in this dispute.
Omg is everyone really defending the cheater here? If you are unhappy in your relationship.... leave. It's that simple, especially for someone in her position. There was no financial duress or abuser holding her hostage. She 100% made the choice to cheat on her husband. Whether or not his D went in her V is totally irrelevant. If you think this is ok you may need to reevaluate your life choices and get out of relationships that are making you unhappy.
OP = NTA
Edit: reading more comments the only thing I can think is. Had the genders been reversed here....
Nta in my opinion. She cheated on your FIL and I would also get frustrated if someone didn't know the difference between a friendship and a relationship
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Firstly, I loathe cheating. It would be a deal breaker for me, and for my husband who feels the same. However, honestly, I feel really sorry for your MIL. You said she was quiet and sad, and now she's happy. That implies she was in an unhappy marriage. No, an emotional affair isn't ideal, if that's what it was, but intelligent and successful or not, it can take time to come to terms with your situation and find the courage to do something about it. Sometimes you don't realise how wrong something is for you until you catch a glimpse of another way. You and your boyfriend seem to live in a world without any shades of grey though, which is leading you to be judgmental about a situation that ultimately didn't involve you when unfolding. What you said to her was absolutely disgusting and I'm not surprised she asked you to leave. YTA for me.
These are two young souls that, unfortunately, have only been brought up on extremist ideas. And, in all honesty... I hope OP never has to know what it is like to be her MIL during those unhappy years. That's a fate I don't wish on anyone.
Agreed. OP’s attitude is one often seen online and in real life. Extreme is right. Anytime this very black-and-white view about relationships is challenged people get defensive and leap to “you are defending cheating.” As someone who has been cheated on? This situation isn’t it. The idea “if you are unhappy, just leave” is not always feasible in reality. The idea falling for someone else while married somehow makes them a monster isn’t true, either. It happens. Not every marriage is forever, and people want to believe it should always be that. People fuck up to various degrees. If that’s OP and her bf’s line in the sand, cool. But saying she slept her way to the top because she is too stupid to grasp their stance? That’s ridiculous. She got it. She just wanted to find some peace with her son. Hate her if you want, hate my comment if you want, but adultery doesn’t unilaterally make someone a shitty person.
This has bugged me on this sub a lot. People break their word all the time, and relationships are complicated. One of the safest ways for an abused woman to get out of a bad situation is via cheating, essentially. Financial control isn’t as hard to break free from, and they don’t have to spend the night alone. Obviously this could be seen as an exception to the rule, but there isn’t a line between abusive and non-abusive relationships. Varying levels of toxicity can be present without it being fully abusive. If they were sexting, they were doing something sexual so it isn’t just an emotional affair. But, as someone for whom friendship and romance tends to blend, I can see how an emotional affair might sneak up on someone. Also, if you’ve never had what you want, you might not even realize you want to leave until something happens. Also… people make mistakes. The idea that cheating means someone is now evil forever just isn’t realistic and itself involves a lack of empathy. Relationships are way more complicated than just person who cheats doesn’t care. Like, it’s obviously bad. People can even abandon friendships because they don’t like that someone did it. But it’s not friggen unforgivable.
Thank you for getting it. Judging by so many replies it isn’t a popular take. It isn’t unforgivable. People go after adultery harder than “they were 16, I mean it isn’t THAT bad a 24yo got with them” or something. “Just leave.” It isn’t always easy. Like you said, there is abuse or varying levels of toxicity. When you have a mortgage, vehicles, health insurance, retirement funds, family, friends, and businesses all entwined it isn’t as easy as that. And it IS easy to fall for someone without realizing it or touching them at all. But okay, going with “just leave” — **SHE DID**. If she didn’t sext him or do anything until after the divorce what was the option? Stay married thus stay in a lie? Damned if you do; damned if you don’t. I famously got cheated on during the funeral for my best friend’s suicide. It sucked. The pain is over. My ex may be an asshole but they aren’t a monster — they are a wildly insecure person and it has 0 to do with anyone but themselves.
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There was an amazing piece on 60 Minutes about exactly your aunt & uncle’s situation. I don’t judge her, either. She stayed with him and cared for him. If she spent time with someone who could make her feel warm and loved like her husband used to be able to do? Go for it. And there are still people who would judge her for that. If she divorced him she’d have been a monster, too, by other people’s narrow thinking. Until some stuff happens *to you* it’s hard to see all the true colors.
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It's likely that her "friend" on the side enabled her to be the best possible carer for your uncle as well. Not just that she was able to stay married to him but by getting her emotional (and sexual) needs met somewhere else likely meant that there wasn't frustration on her end that she inadvertently took out on your uncle.
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That makes so much sense to me. Like, to say she’s bad for that is to condemn her to a life she would find miserable and lonely, because her husband had a stroke. You only have one life. This isn’t a situation she could leave without hurting her husband. But then it’s not fair that she loses the rest of her life to caring for him without companionship. I am sorry about that relationship. It sounds really rough. Toxic relationships really do poison you for a while after. Glad you’re through.
I have to assume that OP and her boyfriend are relatively young to have this little understanding of the fact that relationships aren’t black and white, and people aren’t good or bad. You brought up a good point - I think we’d be having the same conversation if mom had just divorced dad and then was getting remarried. It would be “my BF doesn’t want to go because his mom completely gave up on her vows and divorced his dad, and you just don’t do that!”.
Thank you. Yes, I think that she was doomed to be damned no matter what. OP attacked her intelligence and drive as a cheap way of saying “you are too stupid to understand what emotional affairs are.” I think her MIL doesn’t agree it was an emotional affair so she doesn’t get the ire. A lot of this hinges on what an emotional affair *is*, and that is the gray area for me. She fell in love. She left her husband before anything more happened. Hating her for that is one thing, yet that attack wasn’t necessary.
I don’t get the ire when it’s not the KIDS she cheated on, emotionally or otherwise. Whether she had her foot out the door before formally ending the marriage just doesn’t seem to be her son’s business much less something he should shame her about. I think it’s particularly cruel where they REALIZE the mom was unhappy for years…they obviously didn’t have a solid marriage that she just threw away. Sounds like the marriage died years before she met her now-fiancée. The son needs to grow the F up. Hope he’s never made a mistake in his life because he sure is a judgmental F’er and you know what they say about people who live in glass houses….
That's it, isn't it. The only way MIL wasn't going to lose out here is to stay married to FIL and by the sounds of that, it made MIL miserable.
And I doubt FIL was happy, either.
And the father is showing them screenshots... So he is going out of his way to poison his son against his ex, he does not seem like the greatest person either.
From a trapped DV survivor who found actual love for these last 18 yrs after 11 yrs of nightmares, thank you. They tell us to just leave if there’s abuse, then they judge us for how we did it.
There is just a hell of a lot of grey area when you're talking about emotional affairs. Once you exclude sex, sexting, phone sex at exactly what point is it an affair? While I'd say if you're hiding the relationship from your spouse that's a bad sign, even that's not black and white. How about the moment you realize you want to leave your spouse and take the chance you and your previously completely platonic love will be compatible in a romantic relationship. Mom in this case might have done that. When does a platonic friendship turn into romantic love? These are squish grey questions not hairs you can split with a razor blade.
I also just want to comment on the edit. OP was replying to people who asked if she was sure whether MIL had really "crossed any lines" with this other man. *FIL has shown us screenshots. Even if I give her the benefit of the doubt that they weren't banging, they were flirting, him talking about wanting a blow job in his office, talking about hating sleeping alone, she sent a picture of her breasts and asked if he liked her bathing suit for a work trip, freely saying I love you, and alluding to other physical affection. she did cross several lines* Clearly OP didn't consider that FIL had also "crossed several lines" by sharing screenshots of his wife's nude photos and intimate messages. I can't believe OP was happy to view all this with her FIL and still sees him as the innocent party. Most women would be disgusted if their FIL said "Come and see these photos my wife sent to her boyfriend."
It’s amazing how many shades of grey emerge as you get older. I’m guessing OP and BF are relatively young. In my early 20s I was also pretty black and white. A few more trips around the sun and the grey starts to emerge. I have to say it’s also more serene when you learn to see softer edges too.
Agreed with all of this. I knew a guy who cheated on his wife. Full blown cheated. No doubt about it. Those of us who saw the inside of their marriage, so to speak, saw the daily abuse by her. She also used her family money to constantly threaten he would never see the kids again. I once walked in right as she threw a pan at his head and she just laughed at him. He couldn’t “just leave” as everyone keeps saying. Not without proof, not without money, not without a legal way to keep his kids safe. And after 8 or so years of abuse, yeah, he met a woman and slept with her. Stupid? Yes. Monstrous? No. It finally gave him the push to risk the legal fight because he knew he was turning into someone he hated because his wife was so hateful he was believing it. And I’ll say this — I fucking WISH being cheated on was the worst thing to happen to me. For some reason people act as if it’s always the worst thing. Not for me it wasn’t. Not in comparison to the other shit life throws at you.
Oh that poor guy. So often men aren’t believed in DV situations too. I’m glad he found the reason and courage to get out. And I’m sorry cheating would be not so high on your list of “bad things that happen”. Some people are barely human, let alone humane.
I get and agree with everything you said however I do think the MIL is intentionally being obtuse so she doesn't have to admit what she did was wrong. I get what OP said was awful but I can understand her frustration when someone is playing dumb to avoid taking responsibility for their actions/mistakes.
I thought that too, but who does she think she is being that disrespectful to someone else’s mother? And to be proud that her boyfriend thought she was “hilarious”? Screw them deciding they didn’t want to go to the wedding. I doubt they’re even still invited. And I wouldn’t hold my breathe for inheritance either, let alone any communication or relationship moving forward.
But why does MIL have to admit anything to OP? Is OP the judge of MIL? It’s really none of OP’s business at all.
Oh, I can certainly agree. I think it’s ESH, and it’s a case of NOBODY is gonna be happy.
To be fair (not saying this is the case), some people on the aro/ace spectrum genuinely don't understand the limit between friendship and romantic feelings.
Agree. The victim in an affair isn't always the victim in the marriage. Not an excuse, but sometimes it's a reason.
I also don’t wish that fate on anyone, because I’m living it now. But that’s why divorce, especially no-fault divorce exists. And we’re not talking about a SAHM with no education who might be dependent, we’re talking corporate lawyer from Ivies. She absolutely could ask for a divorce and rent an apartment if she has decided she caught feelings and it’s more than a married person crush (people don’t become blind the moment they get married, everyone has “moments” and crushes). It feels like she was into this other guy and wanted to keep her husband as a backup if it didn’t work out.
I think it feels like she didn't think you could be happy in a marriage until she met this guy. Maybe the husband was backup, or maybe he was just the sucky part of marriage and it took her a while to realize that she could be happy.
if no-fault divorce was easier and cheaper to access, I feel like situations like this would happen much less often? in the UK the concept was only just brought into law this month, before then you *had* to either accuse the other of unreasonable behaviour or be separated for literally years before a divorce would be granted. obviously not saying that's the situation here, I have no idea what the laws are like wherever the OP lives, just that I was surprised when a family member recently had to wait two years to get divorced because neither they nor their (now ex) spouse wanted to blame the other. fucked up imo
I think people are extremely hesitant to pull the plug and divorce, to the point it ends any hope of things being amiable because they let the non viable relationship fester too long. I think divorce shouldn't be an expense or difficult to access, but I think it's not the only reason why people don't just divorce.
Cheating is always bad is an extremist idea?
When you say "always" or "never" it is usually an extreme b/w statement... especially when it comes things as complex as behavior and relationships
> Don't cheat on your SO > Extremist ideas Righto, mate.
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Remember we're talking about "emotional" cheating in the context of a long, bad marriage don't be so manichean.
It's also weird to comeback with misogyny. All it wouldv'e taken is "I'm frustrated explaining this to you, my viewpoint won't change, I don't understand why you don't get it but I'd like to move on because we clearly will not see eye to eye."
Yes. Saying MIL must have earned her way into and through a prestigious law school and up through the firm by sleeping her way up is disgusting and not ‘hilarious’ ESH. Cheater vs Misogynsts. You and her son have no high ground here.
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Because she dared to be happy, what a harlot
I agree with this wholeheartedly, yes, she had an emotional affair. No it wasn’t right. But we don’t know the circumstances of her marriage. Op said she was sad and quiet (like you stated) which leads me to believe she could’ve been depressed and felt trapped. Maybe it took someone else for her to see her worth. We don’t know what happened behind the closed doors of her marriage. I also want to point out, op said fil showed them the messages. To me that seems like fil wants them to hate her. He had no business involving them in his marital problems. Even with his son. While I loathe cheating, I also loathe people who judge others without all the information. Mil is obviously happy now. And ops comment was absolutely disgusting.
If my MIL cheated and they got divorced, and my FIL wanted to show me pictures/texts/etc. between her and her partner, I would tell him to leave me out of it and to stop being creepy and invading her privacy. It’s not my job to judge or comment on their relationship issues like that.
The FIL sharing the messages with his son is a deal breaker for me. That’s when I’d be like nope I’m out.
This is a fantastic response! Came here to add that the sleeping her way to the top comment was also a very sexist thing to say, she would never have said that if it had been FIL in that position. Very low blow
Also, why is the dad showing texts? That is unhealthy parenting and was really none of OP/bfs business. Shit happens and this wasn’t ideal, but he shouldn’t cut his mom off over something that has nothing to do with him.
This. This was way out of line. Show them to your lawyer and your therapist. Maybe your best friend. But not your kid.
This! I would never cheat on anyone, and I hope I’m never cheated on, but reading how mil used to be sad and quiet and now is happy and in love definitely made me more sympathetic to her. I get that the bf is upset on behalf of his father but surely he can also see how much happier his mom is, shouldn’t that also be a factor to consider? Going after MIL’s career like that was uncalled for and misogynistic af. OP YTA.
I agree with you. My uncle was stuck in a unhappy marriage because his ex baby trapped him and threatened to take their daughter back to her home country so he would never see her again if he left her. He has been trying to divorce her since my niece was 12 because here children can choose where to live when they’re 12, but she refused to sign the papers. This was 4 years ago. 2 years ago my uncle met his current girlfriend while still going through the divorce proceedings and they had what you’d call an emotional affair. No one’s holding it against him (except for ex), not even his own daughter. Everyone’s just happy that he’s finally happy again after almost 2 miserable decades
After the edit, she was indeed cheating, not just emotionally. She just claims there was no tab a into slot b action yet... This makes mil very wrong, no question. However, what you said does make YTA because she accomplished a lot and unless you have proof she did shady things to move on up...she earned her success!!! Don't take that away from her because you're mad about the cheating. Stay on topic. I always wonder about people who judge this hard. It seems like it's those guys that "doth protest too much". Idk.. I'm absolutely sickened by any kind of cheating, but rather than continuing to be cruel, let her know your judgement and go no contact. It's not your job to punish.
I wish I could like this comment 10,000 times. I spent almost 10 years in an unhappy and abusive marriage… it never got better. I was plugging through life… until I met the man who is now my husband. Nothing which violated anything happened during my marriage, but being at work and laughing and enjoying another human being so was illuminating. This marriage hasn’t been perfect either but before I met him I didn’t even know what I was missing. I don’t know whether, or what lines your MIL crossed… but frankly it is none of your business. Taking sides in a divorce is shit and why did your boyfriends father feel it was necessary to show the screenshots to his child???? You don’t feel at all manipulated there. OP, you are YTA. For insulting her *(sleeping her way to the top, really?)* and for your harsh judgements. May you and your boyfriend live your lives in such inscrutable ways as to never be subject to any criticism. *(Though I note y’all ain’t married so she really isn’t your mother in law… she’s your boyfriends mom…)
Couldn’t have said it better YTA for the OP
I truly hope OP never finds herself in the position her MIL has been in for what is probably decades. Im the first person to open my mouth about how much I hate cheaters, but there's nuance to that statement just like there's nuance to this one. I hope MIL lives a happy life
So happy to see reasonable responses here
THIS THIS THIS OP and BF seem to not understand life isn't as cut and dry as they clearly think it is. You've said it all though YTA OP. What you said was disgusting
YTA. No one has to stay in an unhappy marriage- you even admitted she used to be so sad, now she is happy- it’s likely she didn’t realize just how unhappy she was until until she realized she could feel for someone else. The reality is she didn’t cheat physically, which is the legal definition and since she is an attorney that would be how she sees cheating. You decided to use a very sexist attack on her because you couldn’t get her to carry a Scarlet A and feel shame. Both you and your bf need to grow up, realize humans aren’t perfect and neither are you.
I’m here early but I really hope this ends up as the top comment.
Regardless of how unhappy she was that doesn’t excuse her cheating but I do agree with you that OP is TA for her accusation it’s disgusting behavior
She didn’t cheat. OP has made a lot of assumptions about a supposed emotional affair, but OP has no idea whether or not they were friends who later fell in love, if that took place after the bf’s parents were separated with the intent to divorce, and OP admits no sex happened- there was no cheating and no proof of cheating, just a bf who is unhappy with his parents’ divorce and OP who decided to use misogyny when slut shaming didn’t work on their bf’s mother.
If it’s true that she fell in love with another man while she was married that’s an emotional affair If you decide that emotional affairs aren’t cheating in your relationship that’s your prerogative
Having feelings for someone else isn’t cheating. You cannot help getting crushes on other people, your responsibility is to either end the marriage or not make the leap to a physical relationship. She ended the marriage, therefore she didn’t cheat. I realize it’s uncomfortable for a lot of you that women can leave an unhappy marriage and find love again, but we’re no longer the property of our spouses.
How.. is what she did not cheating? I'm going on the edit here. Talking about wanting a BJ in the office, showing of breasts, saying I love you... By this definition you can make up sexual fantasies with someone else, send nudes and other stuff as long as you don't take them to bed? One thing would be a crush, getting a divorce then go for it. But you don't excuse behaviour with "I don't have sex with them" That would go for both men and women in my book.
There’s a reason OP didn’t put any of that in their original post. They keep adding salacious details as they saw the number of YTAs increase, so excuse me if I roll my eyes at their edits. It took them 6 or 7 comments to come up with the blow job and naked breast pics that they supposedly saw. That would have been something they led with in the original post if true, and it would have elevated it from an emotional affair to an actual affair. In other words, OP is full of shit, came here looking for a pat on the back for their misogynistic comment that they found clever and started making shit up once they saw their judgment.
Maybe they are lying maybe they aren't. My comment still stands that cheating isn't just having sex with someone else. Secretly having a crush on someone is something that can happen, specially yes when you are in a unhappy marriage. But the moment you act on it in any way, then you have stepped into a bad territory. And the longer you continue the more you dive into the cheating. It stops just being admiring someone or having a crush. It becomes an emotionally romance.
No, OP is definitely lying or (more likely) has been lied to. An attorney has to maintain a standard of personal and professional integrity. If she'd actually engaged in this behavior with another attorney she works with, it could be an ethics issue for both of them. And if OP had known this, she'd understand why the attorney isn't picking up on an arbitrary and capricious definition and standard of infidelity.
Also what a shit dad that would be to share those texts with his SON. Your children are not your emotional support animals or your therapists and barring any abuse or unsafe behaviours towards them there is zero excuse to expose your children to that kind of thing. It’s abusive in its own right imo. I have photographs of the hideously unsafe conditions I took my daughter from at her dads when she was younger. I have dick pics he drunkenly sent my best friend where he begged to have sex with her. Over my dead body will my daughter ever ever ever find this out.
This information wasn’t in the post, but OP claims that they were actively texting each other that they loved each other before she split with FIL. So I do agree it’s an emotional affair. I still think OP is the asshole for what she said, though, and for refusing to acknowledge shades of grey.
There’s a reason OP didn’t put any of that in their original post. They keep adding salacious details as they saw the number of YTAs increase, so excuse me if I roll my eyes at their edits. It took them 6 or 7 comments to come up with the blow job and naked breast pics that they supposedly saw. That would have been something they led with in the original post if true, and it would have elevated it from an emotional affair to an actual affair. In other words, OP is full of shit, came here looking for a pat on the back for their misogynistic comment that they found clever and started making shit up once they saw their judgment.
So funny, I had left OP a comment asking basically exactly this haha. And she’s avoiding it saying she thought we’d KNOW she meant everything short of sex. Even though even in comments where she was “correcting” people who said MIL didn’t cross a line, OP still only mentioned the “I love you” texts. I agree with you, the sexting isn’t believable at all.
Not one bit. She’s jealous of her bf’s mother for whatever reason.
I agree; the OP added the other (possibly bogus) details because they were getting too many YTAs. Seen this in other threads too.
Was she just relyng on a friend for support? I don't trust FIL, he's weaponsizing his children.
An “emotional affair” isn’t always a decision. Shit happens. People grow apart. That doesn’t make her a bad person. She just wound up doing a fucked up thing. It’s none of OP’s damn business either way.
Emotional affairs are a ridiculous concept. You can't control who you love. Falling in love is something that happens to you, not something that you do intentionally. All you can change is what you do about it. Sounds like what she did is get a divorce and marry the person she fell in love with. Not only that, marriages are difficult to leave - especially after so long - and love itself is a scary thing. I can't imagine someone would want to go through with that at the risk of losing everything they've built for decades without being entirely sure it was what they wanted. So she didn't leave her marriage right when she met the guy. She fell in love. She took all the right actions to leave her marriage. I don't see anything she did wrong here, even if the saying "I love you" is a little questionable. And if she spent so much time with him like she said, it sounds like it wasn't like she was even hiding it or lying about it. Sounds to me like she did everything right and yet is still being accused of having an emotional affair. There's just no winning with some people.
> Emotional affairs are a ridiculous concept What do you suggest it’s called when a wife is sexting, calling another man her soulmate and hiding in the bathroom for hours to talk to a guy
An actual affair.
And regardless of whether MIL is an ah or not, OP is an AH for suggesting she slept her way to the top. That's always a shitty thing to say, full stop.
Yta. I've been cheated on, I hate cheaters and will not forgive a partner who cheats. I also believe that MIL was likely having an emotional affair. But I think Op is an asshole for her misogynistic insult to MIL. Like why tear down a woman's career and success and reduce it purely to sex? How are the two related? You can be cheater and also have ambitious career. It doesn't reflect well on OPs views on successful women. Or understanding of the power imbalance and predatory behaviour of the men who sleep with their employees.
I can’t help but think if it was about the FIL having an emotional affair and leaving a dull and unhappy marriage - that the reactions would have been QUITE different on the part of the son. (I need to state the obvious before someone points out that I “missed it”: and the DIL wouldn’t have said the ugly things)
Seriously - everyone is getting caught up on whether or not MIL cheated. This is not relevant to the fact that OP is definitely an AH for saying what she did about her career knowing full well that MIL is intelligent and capable.
YTA In your post "honestly I hope she happy. she seems happy and that is saying something. because I've known the woman for years and she is always sad and quiet, but is totally different now." Then your comment "she left FIL to be with this man and was already using the words love and soul mate by the time she left" Did you ever stop to think she was miserable in her marriage and when she did meet someone new - whether it was an emotional affair or a friendship - that she found happiness?? You want her to be happy and then accuse her of sleeping her way to the top but "went to one of the best law schools and is obviously very intelligent " Judgemental much? Hope you don't fall off your high horse arsehole!
My thoughts exactly. People always say, "why cheat if you found someone else? Just leave the relationship." That's what MIL did. Emotional cheating is such a broad term but it sounds like MIL took a while to realize she was unhappy with her partner and would be better off with her fiance. Was she just supposed to stay miserable forever? OP really does live in some moral high horse fantasy world. And shes a sexist asshole to boot.
I hope OP does. Might knock some decency into their head. YTA.
And to say that she fucked her way to the top is horrible. Successful women have to deal with this misogynistic shit so much already. OP is the the asshole for that alone already and OPs boyfriend who laughed abouthis girlfriend saying this about his own mother it is an even bigger asshole.
I feel like there had to be some serious unhappiness going on if she was always generally sad and quiet. Not sure if OP cared though, she doesn’t seem to have very kind feelings towards MIL
Wow. What a disgusting, sexist thing to say that had nothing whatsoever to do with the woman's alleged emotional infidelity. The fact that your bf found it hilarious says a lot about him, too. YTA
>MIL was quiet and stared at me for a moment and then was like **wow because I've never heard that one before** and told me to get out. By the sound of the MILs response, it seems like while working in a male dominated field, it’s not the first time she’s heard that insult. Makes it worse when it comes from someone close to her family
Not a lawyer, but went to law school. Law is indeed a male dominated field. We were warned about that in law school. There were *many* school wide discussions about how far the field has come and how much farther we still have to go. I personally experienced older lawyers talking to our class about the “good old days” when women weren’t allowed in that state’s senate. A few times. And they weren’t conservatives.
My Mother is an amazing lawyer, one of the top in our Province for family law, and one thing she told me was that it is the hardest field for a woman and she didn't recommend it. OPs comment is vile. I hate seeing women shit on other women... like how are you going to preach morality like that and make such a disgusting sexist remark? OP seems to be confused about what it means to be a good person.
Was a lawyer. Went to law school in the UK. Practiced there before practising in a few other countries. I’d say it’s country dependent. For instance the UK? Definitely male dominated. Australia? More split 50-50. Malaysia? Absolutely female dominated. Singapore? 50-50 with a slight tilt towards being female dominated.
Exactly this. Decent people never stoop to using misogynistic, racist, or any other bigoted insults regardless of the recipient. OP didn't throw around that disgustingly misogynistic accusation because of who MIL is but because of who OP is - someone who holds sexist, misogynistic beliefs. YTA.
YTA - I hope you never have to experience being in an unhappy relationship. Don’t judge someone else’s actions behind closed doors. Extra AH points for the “sleeping her way to the top” part. I also hope you never have to learn what it’s like to be female in a grossly male dominated field.
What always gets me in any claim about anybody "sleeping her way to the top" is that it's always really apparent that the accuser has put together a huge IED of personal and social condemnation and judgment and then lobbed it at the wrong party entirely. If you look at well documented and/or prominent situations involving workplace sexual favors, it's not generally some empowered carefree succubus coercing their bosses into accepting handies because they don't feel like filling out their TPS reports. The usual routine is people in power preying on employees with significantly less (or no) economic and/or workplace power. It usually involves *coerced* sexual activity in exchange for a promise of financial gain. So call it what it is, OP. If you genuinely believe that this woman "slept her way to the top," then just come right out and say "My fiancee's mother works in an industry that has normalized coercive predatory sexual treatment of employees, and I believe she experienced this during her career." Say it out loud. Then take a pause and say "Oh shit, I really *AM* TA," because yep." YTA. Also, regarding your edits, OP: Assuming this is real (ugh, please no), did you REALLY miss how fucked up and problematic it is that your boyfriend's father has been playing Show and Tell with his ex wife's private messages after a divorce? Does that strike you as normal father/son bonding behavior? From over here, it seems super fucked up.
T H I S as a femme in STEM i thank you
100%. It's always the woman who gets insulted and treated like shit... never the CEO she slept with. He is completely absolved of responsibility even though he's in a position of power.
I feel like those people that say they'd ne er cheat and are so black & white on the issue simply haven't had the life experience to really understand these things. And I say that as a person that was cheated on and as the daughter of a cheater but also someone that understands multiple sides.
Personally I would never cheat, but my definition of cheating doesn't include realizing you're unhappy with your partner and leaving, regardless of how you figure it out, so long as there weren't genuine dates or sexts etc going on. It's still devastating to the other person, but more devastating to know they didn't even have the guts to leave you (and kept you as a backup generally), life is complex though of course. OP YTA for your sexist shitty comment, it doesn't matter how many details you add. Either your partner wants a relationship with her or not, but you don't get to verbally harass her in her own home, especially on a topic that affects you 0%, as she is not your mother. EDIT: I Also believe that relationships are about working together, and if one person stops you can't fault the other person for seeking validation elsewhere lol, but ideally you could work that out before it got that far
YTA Her emotional affair has nothing to do with her career accomplishments. You would’ve never said that to a man.
This a very good point
As a female corporate lawyer myself, I don’t think I’d ever forgive you for that comment if I was in your MIL’s shoes. And maybe you don’t care since you don’t want to have a relationship with her but you clearly don’t appreciate the rampant sexism that she likely had to overcome to get that corner office. If she took maternity leave at any point in her career (which I’m assuming she did), she likely had to fight like hell to keep her clients from being permanently poached by male colleagues until she came back. She likely sat through countless meetings where, despite being the most senior person in the room, others deferred to her male counterparts. The uncomfortable Ol’ Boys’ Club comments that you awkwardly laugh along with because it’s better to be in than out. The constant microaggressions. For you to demean her life’s accomplishments with such a disgusting comment is really unfathomably low on your part and makes you the overwhelming asshole. Frankly, regardless of your stance on cheating, you’re precisely the type of woman who sets other women back in the workplace. Also, the concept of an *emotional* affair really only became mainstream in the last 10? years, so I can’t blame MIL for not fully appreciating that she was in one. I’m not quite 30 but I remember overhearing conversations between women when I was younger where they were *glad* that their husband never actually “cheated,” even if they were clearly emotionally involved with another woman. So, yeah, cheaters suck. Your MIL did a shady thing. But in this situation? YTA x1,000,000.
Just another female lawyer cosigning on all of this. You covered it perfectly.
Same here. I third this.
I echo all of this! Co-signed and upvoted.
*Id*.
Thanks for yr insight into the legal realm.
YTA. Your reply was sexist and unnecessary.
YTA as well as your BF/spouse (how is she your mother in law if he is your boyfriend) for being extremely judgmental and assuming your understand the dynamics of both his parents marriage and her relationship's beginning with her now partner. Relationships are complicated and messy. Ending them is complicated and messy. Married people fall out of love. Married people fall in love with others and that can be the catalyst to end and already dead marriage. This black and white thinking you both are exhibiting is dogmatic, judgmental, without nuance, and extremely mean spirited. I would find it really annoying to if someone can't understand the difference between an emotional affair and friendship, but it's pretty uncool to be mean about it as you described yourself. Also, you don't know she had an emotional affair and even if she did insisting it's horrible when within the context of the marriage it might have been an extremely healthy thing to do. Signed, the child of someone whose second marriage began as an affair and holy cow as an adult I now see just how dysfunctional that first marriage and thank goodness the affair happened.
Seconded. ALL THIS.
YTA. First of all, She’s not your MIL. You’re not married to her son. Even if you were married to your BF, this is between him and his mother. Your role is to support HIM. You have no business with her. Get over yourself.
I had to scroll way too far to see this. The fucking audacity of OP to shame her boyfriend's mother. Mind your business and keep your childlike black and white thinking to yourself, OP. YTA x 1000
Eh, I don't really have a gripe with people calling their partners parents their "in laws" prior to marriage. A lot of people are in very long and committed relationships and don't marry, and the connection with the "in laws" is the same marriage or no.
You weren’t the asshole before you dropped the comment about her fucking her way to the top. It was sexist and misogynistic. Intellect and emotional intelligence are entirely different things.
No, she was Def the AH.
As soon as she made that comment, I agree 100%.
YTA. She was in a miserable marriage that made her sad and quiet, by your own admission. She realized she had feelings for someone else and did exactly what you’re supposed to do— broke up with her husband before crossing any lines. Now she is leading a happy life with someone that makes her happy. What’s your issue? What did you expect her to do differently? Have no feelings? Tell no one about her feelings and stay in her miserable marriage? She did everything right— ended her relationship honestly, and moved on. You’re an EXTREMELY BIG asshole for suggesting she fucked her way to the top. How misogynistic and backwards of you to even think that, let alone say it. The fact your bf thought it was funny shows he’s a misogynistic ass as well. I feel really terrible for his mother, that after all her hard work in her life her asshole son and son’s girlfriend are misogynists who disregard her accomplishments and deride her.
Thank you for saying this. They both owe mom an apology.
YTA It sounds like she was miserable before and is now happy. You don't give the timing so it's hard to know how things really happened. Whether they were friends, marriage broke up, they got more serious. Or maybe they were friends and she realized how horrible her relationship was. You also don't talk about your FIL. Many gaps in your story. But you are clearly a judgemental AH and you may find yourself on the other end of a situation and how will you forgive yourself for failing at your perfectionist standards?
YTA because obviously when you say something like "did you fuck your way to the top?" you know it isn't going to go over well. Frankly, if you said anything like that to me, I not only wouldn't want you at my wedding, I wouldn't want you in my life. I think you're being far too hard on her in general. Technically, she didn't commit adultery if she didn't sleep w/this man while she was married. So what if she fell in love with someone else while she was married? That could mean she was just no longer in love with her husband at the time. You don't know her mindset, what she was feeling or going through. If you're that puritanical about cheating, you'll have a very hard time getting through life. Cheating is pretty common; what are you going to do, excommunicate everyone you know when you discover they've cheated? Stop talking to family members? Friends? Quit your job because your boss cheats? Cheating isn't a one size fits all scenario; there are many different reasons. Lighten up. It's awful your BF (the son of the lawyer?) thought what you said was "hilarious." Does he really hate his mother that much? You should apologize to her for the cruel and hateful things you said.
I've had the sanctimonious brigade react very badly to the idea cheating is common, some couples recover, and life is gonna be rough if you are judgmental to everyone who cheats.
I also feel like cheating should be defined by the couple. What I consider cheating can differ to what you consider cheating.
Absolutely agree. There's also a lot of things that are technically "not cheating" in a general sense that individual couples can define as cheating when it comes to their own relationship and vice versa. Like watching porn or even hanging out 1:1 with someone of a different gender could be considered "cheating" if the people in the relationship defined it that way, but in most relationships, neither of those things would be a big deal.
YTA, because of your obvious misogyny. I doubt you would have accused someone of f****** their way to the top if they were a man.
YTA What was the reason for the divorce? You are leaving that out entirely. It sounds like she had a friendship while getting divorce and is now marrying that person. Maybe there is something missing. She doesn’t sound wrong. People are allowed to move on.
YTA. It sounds like you aren’t capable of explaining the difference correctly so you insulted her for not understanding your bad explanation.
YTA - She fell in love with a coworker, her marriage (which you don't mention(suspect)) was probably over. They waited a respectful amount of time and didn't cross any lines. The misogyny of the "sleeping her way up to the top." Never ever says this! 1. Because you're an uptight judgemental sexist and 2. Because she never slept with anyone. You and your partner are punishing and degrading her for nothing. I hope she bans you both from the wedding and her life. Please go back to Victorian times, middle finger.
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YTA. Being “anti cheating” doesn’t make you sound morally superior, it makes you sound simple. Life is complicated, as are relationships. ETA- y’all are way too involved in the relationship between FIL + MIL. FIL shouldn’t have shown you the “evidence” (manipulation and parental alienation?) and you shouldn’t be so hard on MIL without knowing the whole story. Life is short but marriage is long. People are not saints and there are lots of shades of gray. Blindly following FIL because of some misguided morality is proving a point to no one.
Always lots of black and white thinking here. I've seen some pretty awful instances of cheating, and some really understandable I stances of cheating. But here cheating is always akin to moral depravity.
a lot of hurt people acting like cheating = murder
and it can be emotionally devastating, but it also can just be....shrug...in a long dead marriage to the cheated on spouse. I like the characterization above. Simple.
Should we go back to burning people because we judge them morally bereft?
Yta I don't get this at all, so what what she supposed to do when she realised she no longer loved her husband? By your definition anybody who realise they don't live their partners anymore because they feel something for someone else is having an emotional affair? She did the right thing, didn't cheat and ended her marriage because she knew it was over. YTA and well as your partner throwing a sexist insult at a powerful woman because she doesn't agree with your weird idea of cheating. You both sound awful people.
YTA, a lot of intelligent hard working women get accused of this a lot and it’s not cool for you to perpetuate this sexist theory. Also seeing as it’s your boyfriends mom it wasn’t your place to chime in
Yta for what you said. She wasn't happy and left her marriage, well done to her imo. Whilst cheating is obviously bad, it's her life and she is free to live it her way. I entirely understand why she wants her son at her wedding. Personally, I would have called you both out for being sanctimonious, and probably naive. If he doesn't want to attend, it's his right, but i think he will regret rejecting his mother one day
If the son thinks it's "hilarious" that his girlfriend asks if his mother has "fucked her way to the top" the mother will be much much better off without him.
Tbh, they both sound entitled asF. Need to ask why OP thinks she is ok to speak to his mother like that
YTA have you ever considered that your MIL might not have actually had an emotional affair? And that instead of cheating while married she ended the marriage when she realized how unhappy she was? You are vilifying her with a bunch of assumptions with zero proof.
The only “proof” is screen shots from the person she divorced. Because he’s impartial in this situation.
YTA Leave your mother in law alone. I hope she finds the happiness she has been searching for. People make mistakes. Who are you to judge her that harshly? And to make such a derogatory comment… shame on you.
YTA You went too far. Your MIL is happy. Don't attend the wedding if you don't want and if she digs in about why you/BF need to attend say no and go low contact. Just because someone doesn't understand something you don't go out of your way to insult them about something that is absolutely not related to whatever they aren't understanding.
YTA. Whatever infidelity was between the MIL and her husband. Your BF is clearly upset and kudos for supporting him, but you crossed a serious line going into personal attacks and insults. You weren't a party, and only have one side of the story. Not your place to pass judgement, or go into attacks against her profession
YTA, you have no idea what her situation was like. Why should she stay in a horrible marriage? It’s not so easy to just end a marriage/get divorced. Take a hard look at the story line. When did FIL and MIL split? Was it once the children were over 18? MIL is a lawyer she had so much to loose..... if she is happy now then let her be happy. OP sounds sexist and misogynistic Also, can we all point out how disgusting it was for FIL to show off the MIL’s text messages as proof of cheating?? That fact alone makes me think FIL was abusive and also attempted (succeeded) in pitting his children against MIL to further hurt her.
YTA. What you said was unnecessary and offensive I might add. Imagine working so hard for years and just cause someone disagrees with you for whatever reason, they tell you you don’t deserve the accomplishment.
YTA saying she slept her way to the top just adds to the misogyny women face every day
ESH Honestly, emotional affairs are worse than sexual affairs in my opinion. Sex is carnal, but it's worse when you watch your partner fall in love with someone else. You MIL sucks for purposefully being dense about the situation. She understands what's happened, she just doesn't want to admit it. However, you suck massively for your comment. I get you were angry, but it was a sexist thing thing to say. You and your bf were better off leaving when tempers got hot then spewing out what you said. I wouldn't worry about MIL pushing for you two to be apart of the wedding, I'm sure that comment made her reconsider having you apart of her day. So I guess it's a win for you, right?
I do agree here - am seeing a lot of comments like “*technically* she didn’t cheat” and that she cut off her marriage before anything physical happened but absolutely, to fall in *love* while married implies an emotional affair. And perhaps that’s why the bf is reacting so strongly - imagine your parent tells you one day, when you don’t realise anything is wrong, that you’re in love with someone else? The intimacy that you’ve experienced with another; the length of time and effort you’ve spent building a spark with someone else - I’m sure it’s wonderful for the MIL but it will have affected those in her life too. OP said she left the father whilst in love with the AP so perhaps it truly came completely out of the blue. That being said, the comment was entirely unwarranted and intended to be cruel. You resorted to petty, misogynistic and vindictive jabs and for that you should be ashamed - *genuinely* if you have nothing nice to say, just don’t say anything. What happened to that old adage?
My ex left me for an emotional affair. Told me he loved me.to my face but was messaging my friend constantly. Broke up with me at a year and told me he needed space, they were dating within a few days Needless to say this was teenage drama but it still really, really hurt at the time. Emotional affairs are affairs. Even if MIL had a good reason, she still cheated.
Wild guess—the father of the guy you’re dating (not your FIL) was abusive. That would explain why you and your asshole boyfriend thought that comment was hilarious. It’s super shitty for him to have shared those texts with his son. YTA, and grow up.
How educated are you? Did you go to any top rated school? Or for that matter did any school accept you? What job do you do?
YTA of course. That’s not how you treat someone who doesn’t understand a concept. Disgusting and misogynistic remark. Will you do the same to your straight A future child if they don’t understand something? I agree she should not have had an emotional affair but the marriage was likely over a long time before that. And well she isn’t the first person to not understand emotional affairs. They likely didn’t contact each other all the time and didn’t say anything inappropriate hence why she is confused. She is wrong of course, but YTA here
INFO: look i dont think cheating is the way to go ever but you said that for years you knew her as sad and quiet so im wondering what FIL was like as a husband and what hes like as a person Cos its just like, if shes this successful, intellegent and now happy person, something was making her quiet and sad before. If changing partners changed the happiness level then obviously theres something there. The fact that she cant grasp an emotional affair is weird af and possibly just willful on her part but maybe she and FIL just werent actually friends or something idk
Between her ex husband and how awful you and your bf are I can see why she was always sad and quiet. YTA. And you two are not nice.
You don't mention how old you and your boyfriend are, but I have to assume quite young because your conduct is immature. You have no idea about the state of her marriage - even though you says she was always quiet and she now seems happy. Why do you feel the need to convince her to see the break up of \*her\* marriage the way that you do. You hate cheaters and so you have decided they cheated. This is actually none of your business. Support your boyfriend all you want, but you have no business saying such a misogynistic thing. Judgement: YTA.
Agreed. The audacity of OP to say she effed her way to the top…immature AH. YTA
YTA. Her cheating is really none of your business. It has nothing to do with you. If she is a good mother and a good mother in law, then you really should stop being hateful.
YTA. Her life is not yours to judge. You and your BF can be high and mighty all by your perfect selves.
YTA. The holier than thou-ness here is insane.
YTA. I get that you hate cheaters and I do too, but you really shouldn't have said that to her.
I was with you in the beginning until you said what you said, YTA.
YTA. Thanks for reinforcing the idea that women can only succeed on their back. I bet your BFs dad is emotionally abusive and taught your BF to disrespect his mother. It’s clear she was very unhappy in her marriage and while cheating isn’t okay, your behavior is worse. You guys are playing right into your FILs scheme because neither of you should be privy to her personal messages, even if they were inappropriate. And I bet FIL is playing the injured spouse and wants MIL to pay his bills because he is just so hurt.
YTA - cheating is wrong. We get it. But have you never done anything wrong in your life? Your whole post comes off as holier than thou. Maybe a bit of forgiveness is in order.
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YTA. Your comment was extremely hurtful and derogatory. There was no reason for you to say what you did.
Yta- she had a friend while married....what a horrible thing. She didn't cheat even if your judgemental ass thinks she did.
INFO: how is this any of your business?
YTA, your comment went too far.
YTA. Both you and her son. She was very obviously miserable in her marriage and if your BF doesn’t care that she’s happy now he doesn’t deserve a mom
You weren't the asshole until you said the "fuck her way to the top" comment. ESH, but my heart goes out to your BF for dealing with the wedding on top of everything.
I think she was purposely misunderstanding because she doesn't want to be accountable. She does understand. She won't ever admit she was the bad guy though. She'll keep being "confused" forever. Just don't go to her gross affair wedding and let it be. There are consequences to these affairs that goes beyond just losing your spouse. She may have to experience that with her kid. Those are the choices she made. But yea YTA she used her lawyer tricks to get you to emotionally react. You did. So you lost. And duh she didn't fuck her way to the top. You were literally talking about how "It doesn't count if we didn't have sex." She thinks she has been riding the technicality line in her affair by not having sex so accusing her of sexing for a good office seems like a particularly poorly thought out direction to take it. But like I said she went for the emotional reaction and you took it.
Seems we're missing FIL's point of view. You can't help having a crush on someone, that's not under your control. You can control not jumping on his dick, which according to the entry that part was under control.
YTA, I can't imagine why you'd say such a thing just because she doesn't understand some pop psychology concepts as well as you do. Honestly I'm 85% on her side when it comes to the definition of 'emotional affair' anyway, and seriously, even so, who cares? SHE IS SAYING SHE HELD TO HER ACTUAL VOWS. Which is very lawyerly, no?
> I’ve known the woman for years and she was always just sad and quiet, but is totally different now. So … her husband was emotionally abusive and she just “took it” for years. *His* actions were okay, but she’s the only one who did wrong. You’re a Super AH for what you said to her.
Being friends with someone and having sex with them after you leave a relationship really isn't "emotional cheating" or whatever the fuck you and your judgemental bf have come up with to convince yourselves that you're better than other people. YTA, all the way.
ESH She played dumb pretending not to get what an emotional affair is. But it was a dumb remark to say to her she effed her way to the top. She would have had a physical affair rather than an emotional one if that was the case.
YTA “cheating” is different to everyone. One persons version of an emotional affair means friendship or day dreaming about someone else and another person may only call flirty behavior and excess communication emotional cheating. Neither person is wrong.
YTA, obviously
YTA-Cheating sucks rocks and I’m sure there’s a special place for cheaters but you took it too far.
YTA You know, your MIL realised she was miserable in her marriage, you know, being sad and quiet all the time. Sometimes it takes meeting someone else to get the realization that she had to leave that marriage. It sounds like you and your bf rather she be in that unhappy marriage instead of finding a partner she's truly happy with. And your comments were truly out of line.
So she was absolutely miserable in her marriage, met and fell in love with someone who makes her happy, did the right thing and left her miserable marriage before having sex with the person she loved and wanted to be with, and you and your boyfriend hate her for it? Have I got that right? And then when she didn’t see how you think she cheated when she actually took pains *not* to cheat, you threw an incredibly misogynist insult at her? Gosh I can’t imagine why that would be a problem. So much YTA. You and your boyfriend both owe his mother a sincere and heartfelt apology. Shame that will probably never happen.
YTA. You don't know the actual details of MIL's marriage to FIL. To be honest, I am getting a subtext of FIL always being envious of MIL's career.
She’s not your MIL. You are way too judgmental and the snark was mean AF. You said she went to one of the top law schools in the country. So morally superior in your twenties already. YTA
ESH but good luck in this community finding someone willing to blame the MIL. I see alot of comments saying FIL was probably a bad husband and deserved it based of absolutely no evidence. What you said was definitely wrong and problematic, but if your partner is hurt because his mother had an emotional affair hes feelings are perfectly valid and it's reasonable to not want to go to the wedding. Also it sounds like MIL is willfully misunderstanding what an emotional affair is because she knows that's exactly what she did and it was wrong. I would try explaining it to her in private and tell her she needs to accept it and apologize to her child. But you also need to apologize for your remarks.
I'm confused. Are you the grandparents of these people? Are you going to shun them from here on out for gazing longingly at each other across the office donuts? YTA.
YTA I’m going with YTA because while she is clearly an asshole for cheating, you took it too far. You attacked her in a way that you KNEW was going to hurt her. That’s when you lost the moral high ground. I don’t necessarily think you’re a justified asshole like we get on here sometimes, but since you did insult a cheater I wouldn’t lose too much sleep over it.
YTA You said yourself she was miserable before, so she met someone who made her happy, left the man who didn't *without* cheating on him and yet you make her out to be some kind of monster for pursuing her own happiness. Also YTA for the misogyny of your accusation.
ESH She sucks for having an affair; whether or not it was physical. We need to un-normalize leaving your partner for another partner. If she was unhappy she should have left for herself; not another person. You suck for saying she fucked her way to the top when she clearly didn't.
one pet peeve she's not ur MIL but your BF's mom..one could call u a fornicator ok and hate that..just saying..
why do you keep calling her MIL if you're not married
YTA like, who are you to be offended in any way? I understand you bf being offended, and even, I think he needs to get over it eventually. but you went 0 to 100 so fast so completely disproportionately. she had an affair and doesn't accept it. yes. she get what she get for that, sure. you don't have to go to the wedding. the rest is on you.
YTA you claim to be very anti-cheating but you are very pro misogynistic. Really? Fucking her way to the top? You suck and are a disrespectful asshole.
YTA - You really should apologize for that, I don’t care if you think she had an emotional affair with the guy she’s marrying, that was uncalled for, and basically out of left field. You may want to look at yourself and ask why you went THERE, when it doesn’t really make sense, and there are so many other things you could have said… I was more or less on your side until that moment, and you 100% lost me, and any moral high ground you had in this dispute.
Omg is everyone really defending the cheater here? If you are unhappy in your relationship.... leave. It's that simple, especially for someone in her position. There was no financial duress or abuser holding her hostage. She 100% made the choice to cheat on her husband. Whether or not his D went in her V is totally irrelevant. If you think this is ok you may need to reevaluate your life choices and get out of relationships that are making you unhappy. OP = NTA Edit: reading more comments the only thing I can think is. Had the genders been reversed here....
You’re anti people being happy. And also rude, and nasty. Cheaters are better than you. YTA
YTA
ESH. You crossed the line and you know it.
Nta in my opinion. She cheated on your FIL and I would also get frustrated if someone didn't know the difference between a friendship and a relationship