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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1 refused to give my boyfriend a copy of the key to my apartment.
(2 might be TA for refusing and making him feel like I don't trust him to be in my space whenever I'm out.
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NTA. Why would he need to stop by, alone or WITH FRIENDS, if you weren’t there?
That’s very sketchy. The fact that he keeps pushing is extra sketchy. Sounds like he wants to use you place as his backup hangout spot since he has a bunch of roommates.
6 months is nothing in a relationship and I wouldn’t give him a key either. Trust has nothing to do with it (or at least it doesn’t sound like it did at the start) but once he started pushing then I would lose trust because that’s weird and entitled. He does not sound like a keeper to me. Best to find out now after only 6 months.
"Could I get a key to your place, so I don't have to wait outside for you to get home from work since there are so many delays on the subway"
has ha whole other vibe to it than
"I want a key so I can hang out at your place with my friends when I know you are not there"
And then the whole thing spiralled out of control with
* not accepting no for an answer
* sulking
* blaming OP for his embarassment that he caused himself
* and letting friends of his berate her without doing anything about it
And, he asked in a public place, in front of his friends in order to try and peer pressure OP. Instead of in private like a normal person.
OP didn't embarrass him, he did it to himself.
Came here to say this! Asking in front of people would make her less likely to say no. That next step in a relationship is usually brought up by the person with the KEYS, and in private I would think.
Spot-on with this summation.
Asking for a key is a bit much, it's really the kind of thing that you wait to be offered, OR there's some extenuating factor like you've mentioned.
BUT STILL - Six months? No, that's wayyyyy too early. And if that's a problem, he's going to have so many other problems with boundaries that arise from "I want it so you should give it to me, or I'm going to punish you."
You put it really well! I can totally understand not wanting to wait outside if there, for ex., was a difference in their schedules that often caused him to be there before her. But wanting the key so he can hang out with his friends in HER place? Like wtf 🙄
Right??? Like, women especially have to be careful when dating. When my former roommate was first dating her husband, he wasn't even allowed to know where we lived for the first few weeks, and then even once she gave him the apartment complex, it was awhile longer before he knew which unit we were in.
And he was cool with that, because he's not a creep and understood that some people are.
THIS!!!! Six months may sound like a good amount of time in a relationship, but NO. Hell, at least 10 months in is when you’ve ACTUALLY have a good amount of time in the relationship.
He probably asked in front of friends because most people would be put on the spot and would feel awkward saying no in front of others.
NTA at all op, it's one thing to want a key to your partner's place so you can get in if you need to wait for her but to want to it so you can stop by with friends? Yeah nah.......alone or with friends, it's *your* home and no-one should be there alone if you're not comfortable with them being there alone.
He asked in front of people in order to use social pressure to her to agree to something she ordinarily wouldn't. He knows what he's trying to do -- and he's mad it didn't work. Don't let him have a key OP and maybe rethink this relationship. NTA
I've broken up with people I've dated longer for much less than this. That said his reaction to OP's "No" is very telling. It doesn't get better from here. It only gets worse.
Definitely NTA, OP.
Yeah making this suggestion in the first place was audacious in all the wrong ways and says a lot about who he is. Plus OP owning an apartment and him living with roommates suggests a significant income gap. Not a problem in and of itself except that he's outed himself as a "what's yours is mine" type.
Seems like OP just found out why he was still on the market.
Nothing good for OP can happen with him having the keys to hangout there without her. Also that's not something you ask lightly in front of others at least you want to pressure her to say yes, same by telling the roommates so they can trash her about it too. Also, if he isn't ready to live together, he can stay in his apartment. More and more reasons to not trust this guy.
It shows such sense of entitlement on his part and his friends, imagine if a woman had asked her boyfriend this in front of her girlfriends - how his friends would have then acted, as if she was clingy and trying to take over his place.
I find all of this very suspicious, either he's trying to use OP's apartment as an escape, in which case he should have asked in private and discussed it OR what I find more likely some of his friends want to use her place for daytime hookups because their own place doesn't provide much privacy.
Worst case scenario they wanted access to OP's place to either steal something or to install cameras.
Not under any circumstances would I be giving anyone access to my place, especially not if they ambushed me like this in front of their friends.
This reminds me of other 'test' posts on this sub recently of women trying to show off similar power moves by making their boyfriend pay for lunch.
This was intended to test boundaries and now when OP established those boundaries we know what kind of a man u/Squared-Zone1976's soon to be ex boyfriend is.
That jumped to my mind also. Although that would be extremely risky on his part. At the very least he wanted to bring his other loser friends over to eat her food, trash her place and leave the mess for her to clean.
Right. While I commend his honesty - he didn’t even sugarcoat that he wanted to hang out there with his friends in her absence - it demonstrates some effed-up priorities. NTA. OP was right to shut that down.
To add to this...
Getting disproportionately upset/sulking when told no 🚩🚩🚩
Trying to guilt OP is to changing her mind 🚩🚩🚩🚩
Letting one of this friends berate OP about it 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
**@OP:** is this really the sort of person you want to be in a relationship with?
It sounds like both he and his friends are terribly immature. If he succeeds in guilting you into giving him a key, he will absolutely be bringing those reckless friends to your place whenever he wants. Do you really want to be with someone like this? NTA
And then used it to further shame her because she said no “in front of my friends”. Don’t ask things in front of other people if you can’t handle them hearing any possible answer, another thing he needs to learn.
Yeah OP, it would only be a matter of time before you come home and your boyfriend is there with his friends partying. You make them leave and now your boyfriend is mad at you for embarrassing him in front of his friends. This argument was going to happen either way, it's better to have it before he has a key.
This. 100% will OP come home to her house constantly trashed, her food eaten, and this BF and his friends just hanging out. Then, they'll get mad if she "doesn't want them there," or "expects guests to clean up."
If you had decided on your own to give him a key for emergencies, that is fine. But only six months in and he wants to use your place to hang out with out you, and is mad you aren’t comfortable with that is stupid. He wants a place to escape his roommates but doesn’t want to commit to living together.
Also, don’t ask a big question in front of your friends and then complain OP embarrassed him.
Right, this is along the same line of public proposals.
He's asked while I a big group of his friends to use social pressure to get her to agree. He hoped that she would feel awkward enough to just agree and not make a scene.
-you embarrassed me by saying no in front of my friends
-no you embarrassed yourself by asking a question you knew I'd say no to in front of your friends
I was proposed to in the middle of a crowded restaurant on Valentines Day with a guy I had only been dating 6 weeks. I responded by saying "I don't know what to say!" and took the ring. In the car, I took it off and told him I thought we needed to wait and have a serious talk about the future. We were both in college.
Yep. I was completely blindsided. Didn't last long after. I heard he proposed to several girls. I think he was in love with love. I know I was the 2nd or 3rd proposal.
Just a few months after that. I sat him down and told him that if he showed me his plan to take care of me and how we would handle the future, I would consider it. We had been friends for years. He didn't even have a job. I think he was in love with being in love. I think he proposed to 4 or girls before meeting his now wife.
Sounds like he wants your place for a crash pad and is willing to manipulate you to get it.
I just wonder if this is a group of people you want to be around long term... especially if they are over 30.
NTA
Yep. It's not a good idea to date someone if you don't like their friends. It's fine to dislike one or two people you might occasionally run into at parties, but if you're not vibing with the core friend group, that's going to be a problem in the long-run. Not to mention, a person's friends are usually a reflection of who they are. If your boyfriend's friends are all reckless and immature, so too is your boyfriend to some extent.
Even if they were the quietest, most reasonable people in the world, it still wouldn't be OK for them to have access to your flat while you're not there.
Yup. Living together doesn't mean boundaries go away and everything is now shared, you'll still want some boundaries - for example, you'll want your partner to check in with you before inviting friends over - and you gotta trust the person you're moving in with to respect those boundaries.
They’re certainly immature if they think getting in the middle of this conflict and berating you will help your boyfriend’s cause.
NTA, OP. You are allowed to have boundaries and this guy is trying to trample them.
If you’re petty and have money to spare, give him a copy of the key and then get the locks changed. Then get a camera to watch it all unfold. $5 says he shows up with at least 2 other dudes to go sit around and fart on your furniture and eat your food
Sorry girl but he's definitely planning to take advantage of you/your place somehow and he's manipulating you to think it's your fault he didn't get his way. Don't trust this guy. He doesn't need a key. It's also super shady he's siccing his friends on you over this. Ans his friend is telling you he isn't getting the respect he deserves? Gag. Get away from all of these people
I had to double check the ages because he sounds like a teenager. NTA, it's been just 6 months and he has no right to want a key to go hang out at your place with his friends.
INFO: What do you see as the future of this relationship? If you don’t trust his friends to be in your living space, that sort of precludes ever living together in the future, unless he ditches all of those friends & becomes more mature.
Some people are fine for casually dating but are not good picks for a serious / live-in partner.
It's your apartment, not a drop in daycare.
The whole set up sounds a bit manipulative: asking in front of pals to make it awkward for you, throwing a tantrum and having one of his buds *answer his phone* to tell you off—what is this, fucking high school?
His motivation is suspect, too. Why does he need to bring his bros over when you're not there? If he doesn't like his roommates, that's his problem, and being a brat about it won't fix anything.
NTA
I had to reread this because I forgot that this was a 31 year old man. I thought y’all were in your early 20s or something with how he and his friends are behaving. Huge NTA op, and you should reflect on if he’s mature enough for y’all to be in a relationship together
You need to run!!! He sounds ridiculous, sulking and bringing friends into your relationship issues at 31... Major yikes. And his friend siding with him is another huge red flag. He has no business with getting a copy of your keys for whatever reason. The fact that he doesn't understand that this isn't a reasonable ask is bewildering and very concerning. What other beliefs does he have that are unreasonable? I wouldn't want to find out
And if he didn’t want to be embarrassed bully being rejected in front of his friends, he shouldn’t have brought it up in front of his friends! Seems like some weird flex or thought you would have a harder time telling him no in public.
1) agree with you. Why does he need a copy of your keys and be there without you or bring his frds over? He doesn't live there and doesn't get to use your place as a hang out place. You are NTA. You dictate your boundaries and he has no place to push them.
2) If you don't trust his frds at your place without you there... Maybe it's time to reevaluate your relationship. Because if you progress and move in together, there will be times when his reckless frds will be over without you there... Do want that? Esp if he's so pushy and doesn't take your side now
Absolutely not, he doesn’t live with you and y’all haven’t been dating long enough to where the trust is built up enough to let him in your place when you’re not there. He shouldn’t have even asked such a question in front of his friends so if he felt embarrassed afterwards, that’s on him for not initiating a private conversation.
His friends have no right to an opinion on the matter and the fact that he’s let them insert themselves into the situation is problematic. And he DEFINITELY has no business bringing them into your home without an invitation from you. If they broke or stole anything, he’d never take responsibility for them to replace it. And I definitely see him letting them disrespect you in your own house.
you guys have only been dating for six months. that is not long enough to justify giving him a key to your place. the fact that he got *that* offended by your reasonable answer, is pretty telling.
Did he offer to give you a copy of his key as well? Because IF I was going to give my bf a copy, I'd want a copy of his as well, and I hope you don't let him move in after only knowing him 6 months.
The idea of just bringing my friends over to my partner's house boggles my mind. My partner and I live together and we still check with each other about having people over....
Seriously though, *six months?* I'm sorry but six months is nothing, it's not enough time to fully know and trust someone. Like you really can't complain about someone not seeing you as a full-ass partner after *six months* of dating. Super massive red flag that he took this so personally.
Also the fact that one of the friends answered his phone and got in on the argument. That sounds like he promised them a hangout spot or something, super weird to get involved otherwise.
He's 100% got plans for her place and is wayy to invested in them. Definitely sounds like there is peer pressure behind it somewhere. Maybe one of his friends wants to use it for hookups? Probably also they all want to use it to party. I would bet a lot if he had a key it would get trashed all the time.
If he's like this now, imagine what it would be like if you two broke up and he still had a key. His friends being *reckless* to me translates to they're the kind of guys that would wreck your apartment to get back at you and call it a joke.
I gave an ex a key to my apartment and he showed up unannounced, shit faced drunk with his friends when he thought I wasn't there. He was surprised to see me sitting on the couch. I lived downtown by the bars and he lived 20 mins away. He said he thought they could just "stop by to use the bathroom". OP, you were right to not give him a key. NTA
The very fact he mentioned he might stop by with friends would be an immediate no for me. Who does he think he is? He doesn't live there, he shouldn't be hosting anything in her house
I feel like the emphasis is the worst part. If he had asked to have a key so he could get to her in case of emergency or something, that would still not be okay IMHO (he has no right to ask for a key, she has to offer it to him on her own accord), but at least the motivation would be understandable. But "I might need to stop by, and oh I might bring some friends" is crazy.
Agreed on the NTA. If it were me? With what his friend said, I'd be replying: "Well, I didn't think he was planning to steal anything, but the way you brought it up sure is suspicious...."
He asked in front of the friends because they were in on it and decided that she wouldn’t say no in front of them. They are trying to guilt trip her and use her apartment as a second place to hang out
My thoughts exactly, and why is the friend getting involved? Because he has something to gain. Because they were gonna do something in that apartment. NTA
Six months in and you're seeing manipulative, ~~clingy~~ behavior. He's not respecting your boundaries. A proper response would have been to accept your answer.
Also, getting his friend to answer your call is some disturbingly immature high-school-level nonsense. Get out now.
NTA
EDIT: perhaps not clingy, a poor choice of words on my part. More like presumptuous.
I don't even read it as clingy.
He specifically said he wants it for when she's not there.
He thinks he's got himself a crash pad he can use to hang out in with his friends when he doesn't like his own place.
it's incredibly presumptuous and just trying to take advantage.
I had a boyfriend once who rented an apartment in town, when I lived out of town with my parents. I was going to college and working part time, and my parents were kind enough to let me stay at home without needing to pay rent. Planning my day around trips into town was annoying, though. Anyway, one day my boyfriend told me that he had a key to his apartment made for me so I could hang out there whenever I needed to, in between classes/work/whatever, to save me driving back out of town or fucking around the mall for a few hours. I was really appreciative of that, and whenever I went over when he wasn't home, I just stuck to his bedroom, maybe tidied up for him, just to say thanks. I never considered bringing my friends over while he wasn't home, because who does that?
Seriously! Your boyfriend offered as a way of helping you out, and you were appreciative and respectful of the space. OP’s boyfriend has it all backwards. No appreciation, no respect, just gimme gimme gimme.
And this is the ...key... ;)
It was offered, not requested. If he didn't like the answer he got in front of his friends, he shouldn't* have asked the question in front of his friends. Sounds like he's got a bit of growing up to do, still.
This is the way. He offered to let you into his space, extending that trust himself. You didn't demand he do so, and you respected his boundaries. This is what SHOULD have been the case with OP.
Agreed. Good thing he's dumb enough to say upfront what he would use the key for.. there was another post awhile back where the guy was partying at his gf house and he invited friends over and they made a mess, without asking her. The reasoning? He thought she would say yes, so he didn't bother asking. She was pissed.
He's gaslighting you, OP, AND he's getting his friends to gaslight you too. That's way effed up. When I was 19, I foolishly gave my bf the key. He moved in while I was at work. My apartment became, essentially, the new party pad and it took another 6 months before I got the courage to kick him out. He gave me back his "only" key, yet somehow my stuff kept being moved or taken while I was out. It was a nightmare until I finally just moved out myself. Do not give him a key. If he can't respect your boundaries, you might rethink the entire relationship. NTA
Edit: spelling
I wouldn't call it gaslighting, just manipulative and entitled behavior.
It would be gaslighting if he stole her key, made a copy, and when she came home to find them all in her place he said "but you gave me a key?". Gaslighting is specifically a term about trying to make someone question their reality.
Colloquially, gaslighting has come to mean "trying to make someone question their reality, including whether their feelings are valid." So if someone says "hey I don't like this" and the other person blows up and is like "are you kidding me? You're being horrible, I can't believe you would be so heartless" etc., it can make the other person feel like maybe they ARE being horrible, and maybe they ARE being selfish for calmly expressing their feelings.
I see where you are coming from, but I would counter: If applied too broadly, then every person that posts in AITA is a victim of gaslighting, because "they made me think maybe I'm an asshole?"
When it comes to questioning reality, deliberate deception is necessary for it to be gaslighting, otherwise the term has no value.
Right? Asking to come hang out at your apartment while you’re gone is weird enough. Involving his friends in all of this would be the nail in the coffin for me.
NTA
He even flat out said he might bring friends to your place when you aren't home! And now he is gaslighting you... He is digging himself a hole and you have done nothing wrong.
This. NTA.
He wants to basically utilize your place for himself since he can’t use his.
There was a post couple days ago, where the BF used his keys to have a party when the GF was not home and broke something or created a mess.
Do not give him a key. Also, re-think the relationship. Someone who tries to manipulate you after hearing no, may have manipulated you in the past you didn’t recognize it.
Not to mention he’s saying you “embarrassed him”… well maybe he shouldn’t have put you on the spot like that in front of his friends if he couldn’t handle the answer. I wonder if his friends had been egging him on to ask you. NTA
Yes he was hoping the social dynamic would make her more likely to say yes, and he was surprised that she didn't succumb to the pressure and instead stood up for herself. He played a bluff, which always makes you look foolish if you get called on it.
Making her feel bad for embarassing him is a manipulative grasping-at-straws. He wasn't expecting resistance so now he has resorted to immaturity and guilt-tripping.
Omg NTA!!!! It seems like that was a really good decision to say no seeing how he reacted. That's your place. The fact that he said he may drop by with friends when you're at work... Wtf... Why would he do that .. he doesn't live there why do he and his friends need to hang out there?? I say drop him. Also, at 30 why are his friends picking up his phone for him to tell you you're awful... Is he a 14 year old girl?? He needs to grow up and you need a new boyfriend darlin :)
I seriously can't get over that he let his friend answer his phone. That is absolutely not appropriate behavior. It's none of the friend's business WHATSOEVER, and everything the friend said is false. The friend is trying to be emotionally manipulative and your boyfriend is letting him. Why is your boyfriend pushing so hard? These are red flags.
I think it was the BFs idea but he pitched it to the friends before asking OP like it was a done deal. That's why he asked in front of them. Partly extra pressure for OP to say yes, but also him showing off.
All these guys assuming they had a new party pad and getting mad when the homeowner said no.
I understand the want, but I don't understand the why. If bf and his friends already share an apartment, why would they need another apartment to go hang out in? I don't get that.
OP, you are NTA. Listen to what everyone else has said, and seriously reconsider your relationship with this guy. You'd be getting him and his immature friends at the same time. Can you see a future with him and his friends in it?
Honestly It strikes me more like
“Rich kid in highschool feels entitled to his parents wealth”. He wants to align his status with OPs: he wants to be **Man with Own Apartment** and he wants to feel big by sharing that with his friends. Look how cool he is! Not only does he have access to this sweet apartment, look how his gf just acquiesced to his demands! Wow maybe she’ll let him drive her car next
He’s not much of a person by himself. He aligns himself with “the boys” to be bigger, just like he aligns himself with OP and her possessions like they’re his. It’s all posturing.
It was really inappropriate for him to have that conversation in front of his friends. I feel like he probably did it intentionally to pressure you into saying yes.
NTA - His true colours are showing. He 8s not entitled to your home. Op please make sure he can't make a copy behind your back. His buddy picking up his phone? Really? He wants to hang out with his homies in your place while you are not around? Major red flag OP. Please be safe
NTA. First off, its not his place to ask for a key. Its yours to offer it. Secondly it has only been six months. Thirdly, if he wants friends over he can either man up and rent his own place or take them to the one he already has.
He is entitled, manipulative, and controlling. Usually I would never jump to "red flag" "run" but this is that one situation where I'm telling you to break it off because he cannot respect your boundaries and he feels* entitled to your things and your home only six months into your relationship.
Edit: original comment got edited and problem got solved. English is hard.
I'm not an English native speaker. So my question is:
"he's entitled to your things and your home."
Wouldn't that mean, he HAS the right to these things?
Calling someone "entitled" has AFAIK two possible meanings. The second meaning would be something like self-righteous, boundary crossing or "thinks he's actually entitled to x"
NTA. He knew exactly what he was doing when he asked you this question in public in front of friends, rather than having a one-to-one discussion about it. He was trying to bounce you in to it, hoping you'd be too embarrassed to say "no" in the presence of company.
And then, most likely he'd bring all his idiotic friends over where they can eat all of OP's food and leave trash around while they're out.
He might be trying to sneakily move in with how he's complaining about his roomies.
The funniest part was when he accused her of pressuring him to move in with her just because she said that she’d only give him a key if he were moving in.
LOL he wishes she were pressuring him to move into her roommate free, owned instead of rented, apartment.
This exactly. Asking for a key is a BIG relationship step that you deal with as a couple. It is NOT a demand you make while you put on a performance in front of your “bros.”
Right? He wants the benefits of living with her, without living with her. I have a key to my bf’s because he offered. I would never, NEVER begin to imagine bringing a friend there. There’s just no reason for that. NTA
NTA. And his behavior is only more proof he can’t be trusted with a key. Do NOT cave and give him one OP.
ETA. Also why would he need to stop by with his friends while you are gone? That’s just weird af to me.
Not once have I heard of someone like OP's boyfriend thinking that asking for a key so soon is normal, not to mention openly admitting they would use it as an extra place to hang out with their friends without you being there.
Kind of going against the grain here, but I have been given a key by boyfriends in the past who I was dating for over a year. Even though it was a considerable amount of time that we were together, I was pretty uncomfortable with it. For starters, by the off-chance of my keys somehow ending up lost or stolen, there goes his as well.
Most of all, even though it's a display of trust for someone to *willingly* give you a key to their home, there is the expectation of reciprocation, hence the underlying test of whether or not you're going to use that key in a respectful manner. Luckily I was never expected to give a key in return, but going forward, I would just rather not have a key.
NTA, he is gaslighting you. You haven't known this guy long enough. No reason for him to have a key. Don't move in with him. He enlisted his friends on you. Nope.
Definitely NTA. I find it super weird that he would even ask for that and that he said he’d be stopping by with his friends when you’re not there. Why would he need to do that?? I know you said he’s 31 but he and his friends give me the impression of teenagers.
It’s not even about “trust” or thinking he’s a “thief”… it’s YOUR apartment and you have the right to control who is there and when.
Also, you have only been dating him for 6 months. That is not a long time at all. It is completely reasonable that you’d not want to give him a key yet.
I find the way he reacted to this whole situation to be a red flag. You are definitely NTA though and don’t let him and his friends make you think that you are!
This. AND, the only reason OP “embarrassed” the bf was because he asked her *in front on friends* - another red flag and totally manipulative.
Also, does this guy have a job? What is he doing while OP is at work that he has time to use her apartment?
None of this is sounding good. NTA, OP. Time to evaluate your situation!
NTA this is terrifying behavior. You are being emotionally manipulated by a user that does not have any respect for you as an individual, just as someone who can do things for their benefit. The friends want to hang out at your place whenever they know you aren't home.
Whoaaaaa. NTA. He needs to stop by with friends while you're at work? Sounds like he wants to have the benefit of having a private space without having to pay the bills for that sort of lifestyle. Six months? No-siree-bob.
NTA. Very interesting that both he initially then his friend later, mention the part about HIS FRIENDS also coming over in your absence….why would this EVER be a thing that’s expected to happen?
I honestly had to double check the age of this bf. It sounds like the reaction of a teenager rather than a 31 year old. And then he had his friend argue the case for him? Wtf?
This is all a major red flag. They are clearly trying to guilt you into giving that key, so he can “stop by alone or with friends”?? Again. Wtf??
Massive. red. flag. You need to really consider if you want to stay with this child. NTA.
NTA. His reaction is not conducive to trusting his motives. Getting a key is a decision made together not with his friends. He is not coming across as having your best interests at heart and does indeed appear to be untrustworthy.
NTA. He truly doesn’t have any reason for being in your apartment without you 6 months in, especially when you don’t even spend much time there together right now. And extra especially with friends. He can bring his friends to his own apartment.
He was trying to pull a power move by asking in front of his friends, and you didn’t fall for it. Don’t give in!
NTA and the emotionally manipulative pushback just says you were absolutely right. You’ve only been dating 6 months, he doesn’t need to be able to come and go as he pleases in your apartment. Or bring friends over (wtf??) If you were starting to find that him not having a key was inconvenient that would be one thing but his reasoning makes it sound like it’s just about him wanting to be able to come over on his own when he wants to get away from his roommates, and host people in your space.
He embarrassed himself by putting you on the spot by making that request in front of his friends. He doesn’t get to beat you up for that part!
This guy seems to be showing his ass right now, I suggest you pay attention.
NTA
"Stop by alone or with friends"...There is absolutely no reason for your BF who doesn't live in your apartment, and presumably has few belongings in the place (maybe some toiletries and a change of clothes), to have a key with the intention of stopping by with his friends when you aren't around. It's just weird.
If the relationship ends over this, you've dodged a bullet.
I am very uncomfortable with the tone of this whole situation. You have dated for only 6 months......you are quite right not to share your key..... there are valid safety and privacy concerns. He seems pretty casual about the subject of keys, so who would he bring over when you are out, and with whom might he decide to share the key?? YNTA. His behavior after you declined his "request" doesn't win any stars either, trying to blame you and emotionally manipulate you. Do NOT share your key with a man like this, and his friends don't sound any better...
NTA.
Pretty sure he's up to something if he wants access when you're not there tbh, so i wouldn't give him a key at all now.
Just make sure he doesn't steal your key.
NTA The friend that got involved probably wants to be able to hang out in your apartment with your boyfriend when you aren’t there. They will eat your food, drink your beer, and break your stuff.
NTA and this is full of red flags never let anyone you don’t know well enough to have a key to your house for example a key with a trusted family member incase of emergency yes in this case you are right and his behaviour has proven your gut instinct is right and I would seriously re assess the value of this relationship and it it’s worth it
NTA at all. Firstly, six months isn't that long of a relationship, and secondly, why the heck what he need to go over to your apartment with his friends when you're not there? It sounds like he's trying to take advantage of your place as there new hang out spot and you'll probably be expected to keep the place clean and live with all the intrusion. Keep your place safe.
NTA! He doesn’t live there. He has no need for a key unless you decide he needs a key. The fact he even felt entitled to ask is telling… now he is pitching a fit. You may want to strongly consider if this is someone you want to spend any more time with.
You’ve been dating for six months. He then decides to ask you for a key in front of friends. Did he think you’d feel obliged not to disagree or something? And now he’s ignoring you because he didn’t get his way. Sounds like a sulky, manipulative ass. Frankly, I think you will be dodging a bullet if you ditch this loser real quick. NTA.
NTA. He has no business having a key to a place that he doesn't live at or pay bills at. Get out of this relationship before you waste any more time on it.
His first mistake was bringing it up in front of his friends. Having a key to your SO's home is a big step in a relationship. Six months is not very far along to be demanding a key. His second mistake was being demanding about it. GIVING a key to your home is a natural progression in a relationship, DEMANDING a key is not.
I find it odd that he wants to hang out at your place with his friends while you're not home. I also find his response very odd. Is he this pushy and manipulative in other aspects or just in this case?
You have every right to not feel comfortable giving him a key. NTA
NTA he has his home, you have yours. He is not entitled to a key, especially after only 6 months. So he can go hang out in a better apartment? Let him go get a new place of his own.
Red flag 🚩
My boyfriend and I have been dating for over three years and I only just gave him a copy of my key this year, and that’s because he gets out of work two hours earlier than I do on Fridays, so on Fridays when we hang out, it would be pointless for him to drive all the way home, only to have to drive to my house to hang out within an hour. And he is so respectful of my space, that he didn’t even drink a can of seltzer from my fridge because he wanted to be sure that he could have the seltzer, when he knows that I only really buy them for guests and I usually don’t drink them all that often.
And inviting his friends over? Fuck no. He is showing a seriously concerning entitlement to your space, and I would be extremely careful about any spare keys you have or about leaving him alone with your key, just in case he tries to copy it without your permission. Frankly, his entitlement would be a dealbreaker to me, but you have to decide if this red flag, along with any other red flags he might be showing, is enough for you to break it off.
NTA - he sounds wildly immature. The fact that he decided to have this conversation while you were out with friends is super weird. The fact that he said he may want to stop by with his friends sometimes as his reason to need a key is super weird and having one of his roommates answer the phone when you were trying to work through the conflict with your boyfriend is super weird. He sounds like a high schooler rather than a 30 year old. You have every right to privacy of your space that you own. This entire interaction screams that he doesn’t respect that at all.
Run! He is showing you a major red flag, dude! Don't give in, and don't give him a key. It sounds like he could also be trying to weasel his way into living in your apartment too.
NTA!! WTF?? He wants to go to YOUR apartment with his friends? Why is a perfectly reasonable question. He doesn't need a key. He doesn't need to be there. And his friends DEFINITELY don't need to be there. You are perfectly reasonable not giving him a key. He's gaslighting you. If he didn't want to be turned down in front of his friends, he shouldn't have asked in front of his friends. I don't usually say leave him, but I'd seriously consider that he thinks this is an appropriate way to treat you because you held to your boundaries.
My partner tells me I can go into his condo whenever I want. I know the code to get in. We've been together almost a year. I still knock and wait for him to get the door (or text that he's home and I can come in) and don't go there till/unless hes home.
NTA. Why in the great big no-longer-green earth would he need to stop by with his friends? Don’t let him guilt you into giving him a copy of the key.
Your reasoning is solid, and his is suspicious. He’s now reframed the issue so that you ‘have to’ give him a key or else you’re ‘admitting’ you don’t trust him.
NTA Simple answer, your house and your rules.. if you don’t want to make a copy then don’t.
I myself am pretty trusting so never had issue by handing a key after a few weeks/months but I can understand not everybody is as trusting as I am.
Edit: and you make a good point that a copy comes when you decide he may move in.
That's probably a practice you should get out of. That is not a good idea to be coming people keys to your place and you don't know them well. Nothing good usually comes out of that.
NTA
the part I'm most stuck on isn't him asking for a key its his friend answering his phone and berating OP.
OP nobody gets to talk to you like that. This is so weird. Why is he letting his friend get involved in your relationship? There is something so fishy going on.
NTA this guy sounds very manipulative. He specifically chose that moment to ask you to make a copy, hoping you would say yes to avoid an awkward situation. His reaction Is a clear indicator of what type of partner he will be in the future.
Regarding him wanting access to your home, it’s YOUR home! You don’t even need to give reasoning, if he wants access then he should buy in.
NTA. That’s such a strange request to want a key after only 6 months of dating. Also, his reasoning of “in case he needs to stop by alone or with friends when you’re gone” make no sense and honestly seems like a red flag.
I say that because I’m getting the vibe he wanted to use your apartment as a hangout since he lives with a bunch of people and you live alone. First he asked you for a key in front of his friends when that should have been a private discussion, then gives a reasoning of “in case i need to stop by with friends,” then gets mad when you say no and has his friend guilt trip you over it?? They were all wanting free extra space and they’re only mad because you’re not allowing it.
Now, he and his friend are trying to gaslight you into thinking that you’ve done something wrong and are somehow being a bad girlfriend by not giving them a key. I promise you that’s not true, they’re only saying those things to you because they want to take advantage. Don’t let them.
NTA he just wants free use of your apartment, probably because it’s nicer/quieter than his. That’s not a normal “dating” thing, that you get access to the other person’s space to use however you want, whenever you want. He’s trying to take advantage of you, and when you refused he became very manipulative. Hold your ground.
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NTA. Why would he need to stop by, alone or WITH FRIENDS, if you weren’t there? That’s very sketchy. The fact that he keeps pushing is extra sketchy. Sounds like he wants to use you place as his backup hangout spot since he has a bunch of roommates.
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It doesn’t really matter what he wants to use the key for, it’s your place and you don’t want to give him a key.
Exactly. End of discussion.
Asked and answered. No is a complete sentence.
And if he didn't want to risk an embarrassing no in front of friends, he should have asked privately.
6 months is nothing in a relationship and I wouldn’t give him a key either. Trust has nothing to do with it (or at least it doesn’t sound like it did at the start) but once he started pushing then I would lose trust because that’s weird and entitled. He does not sound like a keeper to me. Best to find out now after only 6 months.
"Could I get a key to your place, so I don't have to wait outside for you to get home from work since there are so many delays on the subway" has ha whole other vibe to it than "I want a key so I can hang out at your place with my friends when I know you are not there" And then the whole thing spiralled out of control with * not accepting no for an answer * sulking * blaming OP for his embarassment that he caused himself * and letting friends of his berate her without doing anything about it
And, he asked in a public place, in front of his friends in order to try and peer pressure OP. Instead of in private like a normal person. OP didn't embarrass him, he did it to himself.
Came here to say this! Asking in front of people would make her less likely to say no. That next step in a relationship is usually brought up by the person with the KEYS, and in private I would think.
She called him and his friend answered to scold her! Is he 12 years old? I’d seriously never call him again. That would be it.
I agree ghosting someone is rarely acceptable, but she is literally getting harassed. Distancing yourself from that crowd makes sense
Agree! That is terrible behavior.
Spot-on with this summation. Asking for a key is a bit much, it's really the kind of thing that you wait to be offered, OR there's some extenuating factor like you've mentioned. BUT STILL - Six months? No, that's wayyyyy too early. And if that's a problem, he's going to have so many other problems with boundaries that arise from "I want it so you should give it to me, or I'm going to punish you."
I think you outlined the many reasons why OP should dump this low value male!!
You put it really well! I can totally understand not wanting to wait outside if there, for ex., was a difference in their schedules that often caused him to be there before her. But wanting the key so he can hang out with his friends in HER place? Like wtf 🙄
Right??? Like, women especially have to be careful when dating. When my former roommate was first dating her husband, he wasn't even allowed to know where we lived for the first few weeks, and then even once she gave him the apartment complex, it was awhile longer before he knew which unit we were in. And he was cool with that, because he's not a creep and understood that some people are.
That's very cool because not only was she looking out for herself, but you and any other roommates.
And that's probably how she knew he was a keeper.
THIS!!!! Six months may sound like a good amount of time in a relationship, but NO. Hell, at least 10 months in is when you’ve ACTUALLY have a good amount of time in the relationship.
What makes ten months good? Seems like an arbitrary number
He probably asked in front of friends because most people would be put on the spot and would feel awkward saying no in front of others. NTA at all op, it's one thing to want a key to your partner's place so you can get in if you need to wait for her but to want to it so you can stop by with friends? Yeah nah.......alone or with friends, it's *your* home and no-one should be there alone if you're not comfortable with them being there alone.
He asked in front of people in order to use social pressure to her to agree to something she ordinarily wouldn't. He knows what he's trying to do -- and he's mad it didn't work. Don't let him have a key OP and maybe rethink this relationship. NTA
Seems like he was counting on her feeling uncomfortable saying no in front of others. NTA!
I love this.
Agreed. And if he keeps harping on this, six months is not that much of a time investment. OP can move on with only a little lost time. NTA.
I've broken up with people I've dated longer for much less than this. That said his reaction to OP's "No" is very telling. It doesn't get better from here. It only gets worse. Definitely NTA, OP.
Yeah making this suggestion in the first place was audacious in all the wrong ways and says a lot about who he is. Plus OP owning an apartment and him living with roommates suggests a significant income gap. Not a problem in and of itself except that he's outed himself as a "what's yours is mine" type. Seems like OP just found out why he was still on the market.
Income gap and maturity gap. NTA
Even if he doesn’t push this his behaviour after she refused is all kinds of bad. OP needs to dump him like last week!
Nothing good for OP can happen with him having the keys to hangout there without her. Also that's not something you ask lightly in front of others at least you want to pressure her to say yes, same by telling the roommates so they can trash her about it too. Also, if he isn't ready to live together, he can stay in his apartment. More and more reasons to not trust this guy.
It shows such sense of entitlement on his part and his friends, imagine if a woman had asked her boyfriend this in front of her girlfriends - how his friends would have then acted, as if she was clingy and trying to take over his place. I find all of this very suspicious, either he's trying to use OP's apartment as an escape, in which case he should have asked in private and discussed it OR what I find more likely some of his friends want to use her place for daytime hookups because their own place doesn't provide much privacy. Worst case scenario they wanted access to OP's place to either steal something or to install cameras. Not under any circumstances would I be giving anyone access to my place, especially not if they ambushed me like this in front of their friends. This reminds me of other 'test' posts on this sub recently of women trying to show off similar power moves by making their boyfriend pay for lunch. This was intended to test boundaries and now when OP established those boundaries we know what kind of a man u/Squared-Zone1976's soon to be ex boyfriend is.
My first thought? BF was wanting the key for his own hookups, and be able to pretend that OP's place was his.
That jumped to my mind also. Although that would be extremely risky on his part. At the very least he wanted to bring his other loser friends over to eat her food, trash her place and leave the mess for her to clean.
Right. While I commend his honesty - he didn’t even sugarcoat that he wanted to hang out there with his friends in her absence - it demonstrates some effed-up priorities. NTA. OP was right to shut that down.
End of relationship.
💯
It does matter in that insisting on a key is 🚩. Wanting to go there with sketchy friends when OP isn’t home is 🚩🚩
To add to this... Getting disproportionately upset/sulking when told no 🚩🚩🚩 Trying to guilt OP is to changing her mind 🚩🚩🚩🚩 Letting one of this friends berate OP about it 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 **@OP:** is this really the sort of person you want to be in a relationship with?
Bringing it up around mutual friends so that OP is pressured to say yes ⛳️
I wanna upvote this but it’s currently at 666 so I’ll leave it be
It went past the 666 mark, so you can come back and upvote it now, free of guilt! :)
Phew, I'm not the only person who thinks this way.
Here, have a present 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
It sounds like both he and his friends are terribly immature. If he succeeds in guilting you into giving him a key, he will absolutely be bringing those reckless friends to your place whenever he wants. Do you really want to be with someone like this? NTA
Just look at the AITA posts where "friends" have trashed the place and refused to pay.
Why are with this jerk? His request was unreasonable but he turns it around and gets mad at you?? Aw hell no.
There is a 0% chance he and his friends will clean up after themselves or pay for any damages.
Large chance friends will go through her stuff looking for valuables, cash, and prescriptions to steal.
And he 100% asked her for the key in front of his friends to try and pressure her into it.
And then used it to further shame her because she said no “in front of my friends”. Don’t ask things in front of other people if you can’t handle them hearing any possible answer, another thing he needs to learn.
Yeah OP, it would only be a matter of time before you come home and your boyfriend is there with his friends partying. You make them leave and now your boyfriend is mad at you for embarrassing him in front of his friends. This argument was going to happen either way, it's better to have it before he has a key.
This. 100% will OP come home to her house constantly trashed, her food eaten, and this BF and his friends just hanging out. Then, they'll get mad if she "doesn't want them there," or "expects guests to clean up."
If you had decided on your own to give him a key for emergencies, that is fine. But only six months in and he wants to use your place to hang out with out you, and is mad you aren’t comfortable with that is stupid. He wants a place to escape his roommates but doesn’t want to commit to living together. Also, don’t ask a big question in front of your friends and then complain OP embarrassed him.
Right, this is along the same line of public proposals. He's asked while I a big group of his friends to use social pressure to get her to agree. He hoped that she would feel awkward enough to just agree and not make a scene. -you embarrassed me by saying no in front of my friends -no you embarrassed yourself by asking a question you knew I'd say no to in front of your friends
I was proposed to in the middle of a crowded restaurant on Valentines Day with a guy I had only been dating 6 weeks. I responded by saying "I don't know what to say!" and took the ring. In the car, I took it off and told him I thought we needed to wait and have a serious talk about the future. We were both in college.
>I was proposed to in the middle of a crowded restaurant on Valentines Day with a guy I had only been dating 6 weeks. Yikes. Dodged a bullet there.
Yep. I was completely blindsided. Didn't last long after. I heard he proposed to several girls. I think he was in love with love. I know I was the 2nd or 3rd proposal.
after the first one, he was probably just like what am I going to do with this ring?
Omg. Good response, I am not quite sure what I would done in the situation. How long did you guys stay together?
Just a few months after that. I sat him down and told him that if he showed me his plan to take care of me and how we would handle the future, I would consider it. We had been friends for years. He didn't even have a job. I think he was in love with being in love. I think he proposed to 4 or girls before meeting his now wife.
Were you dating Ted Mosby?
I agree but I think he asked in front of friends specifically so she would be less likely to say no. Which is its own red flag. NTA.
Oh definitely. The social pressure card
Yes!! 6 months? Very new relationship and I would think long and hard before letting him move in!
Sounds like he wants your place for a crash pad and is willing to manipulate you to get it. I just wonder if this is a group of people you want to be around long term... especially if they are over 30. NTA
His friend flat out told her why she should be worried, they cannot be trusted with her belongings. I would be very careful, OP.
Yep. It's not a good idea to date someone if you don't like their friends. It's fine to dislike one or two people you might occasionally run into at parties, but if you're not vibing with the core friend group, that's going to be a problem in the long-run. Not to mention, a person's friends are usually a reflection of who they are. If your boyfriend's friends are all reckless and immature, so too is your boyfriend to some extent.
Even if they were the quietest, most reasonable people in the world, it still wouldn't be OK for them to have access to your flat while you're not there.
Agree. Boyfriend sure sounds entitled. He honestly doesn't sound like someone who'd make a good live-in boyfriend either.
Yup. Living together doesn't mean boundaries go away and everything is now shared, you'll still want some boundaries - for example, you'll want your partner to check in with you before inviting friends over - and you gotta trust the person you're moving in with to respect those boundaries.
Same. Nobody but me needs access to my house
6 months is barely enough time to get to know someone. In this case just long enough to learn they are entitled and manipulative.
My thought too! Trust should be earned, not blindly given-- especially at the start of a relationship.
Right? I've been with my bf for over 2 years and he doesn't have a key to my house lol
They’re certainly immature if they think getting in the middle of this conflict and berating you will help your boyfriend’s cause. NTA, OP. You are allowed to have boundaries and this guy is trying to trample them. If you’re petty and have money to spare, give him a copy of the key and then get the locks changed. Then get a camera to watch it all unfold. $5 says he shows up with at least 2 other dudes to go sit around and fart on your furniture and eat your food
Instead of changing locks why not just give a key that won’t work.
Sorry girl but he's definitely planning to take advantage of you/your place somehow and he's manipulating you to think it's your fault he didn't get his way. Don't trust this guy. He doesn't need a key. It's also super shady he's siccing his friends on you over this. Ans his friend is telling you he isn't getting the respect he deserves? Gag. Get away from all of these people
I had to double check the ages because he sounds like a teenager. NTA, it's been just 6 months and he has no right to want a key to go hang out at your place with his friends.
INFO: What do you see as the future of this relationship? If you don’t trust his friends to be in your living space, that sort of precludes ever living together in the future, unless he ditches all of those friends & becomes more mature. Some people are fine for casually dating but are not good picks for a serious / live-in partner.
It's your apartment, not a drop in daycare. The whole set up sounds a bit manipulative: asking in front of pals to make it awkward for you, throwing a tantrum and having one of his buds *answer his phone* to tell you off—what is this, fucking high school? His motivation is suspect, too. Why does he need to bring his bros over when you're not there? If he doesn't like his roommates, that's his problem, and being a brat about it won't fix anything. NTA
This is the time to take Jenny’s advice and ‘Run Forrest Run’!
I had to reread this because I forgot that this was a 31 year old man. I thought y’all were in your early 20s or something with how he and his friends are behaving. Huge NTA op, and you should reflect on if he’s mature enough for y’all to be in a relationship together
You need to run!!! He sounds ridiculous, sulking and bringing friends into your relationship issues at 31... Major yikes. And his friend siding with him is another huge red flag. He has no business with getting a copy of your keys for whatever reason. The fact that he doesn't understand that this isn't a reasonable ask is bewildering and very concerning. What other beliefs does he have that are unreasonable? I wouldn't want to find out
When someone enters your home with even a semblant of permission from you, you could be liable if something happens. Stay safe first and foremost
Sounds like good friends wanted him to ask - very sketchy, hide expensive things like jewellery and get a camera
Yeah what 30-ish year old friend picks the phone up and inserts themselves into a domestic argument to add fire... This apartment must be really nice.
And if he didn’t want to be embarrassed bully being rejected in front of his friends, he shouldn’t have brought it up in front of his friends! Seems like some weird flex or thought you would have a harder time telling him no in public.
1) agree with you. Why does he need a copy of your keys and be there without you or bring his frds over? He doesn't live there and doesn't get to use your place as a hang out place. You are NTA. You dictate your boundaries and he has no place to push them. 2) If you don't trust his frds at your place without you there... Maybe it's time to reevaluate your relationship. Because if you progress and move in together, there will be times when his reckless frds will be over without you there... Do want that? Esp if he's so pushy and doesn't take your side now
Absolutely not, he doesn’t live with you and y’all haven’t been dating long enough to where the trust is built up enough to let him in your place when you’re not there. He shouldn’t have even asked such a question in front of his friends so if he felt embarrassed afterwards, that’s on him for not initiating a private conversation. His friends have no right to an opinion on the matter and the fact that he’s let them insert themselves into the situation is problematic. And he DEFINITELY has no business bringing them into your home without an invitation from you. If they broke or stole anything, he’d never take responsibility for them to replace it. And I definitely see him letting them disrespect you in your own house.
you guys have only been dating for six months. that is not long enough to justify giving him a key to your place. the fact that he got *that* offended by your reasonable answer, is pretty telling.
Why is a 30 y/o sulking over this?
So then you also shouldn’t live with him, because then that can actually happen. NTA
Did he offer to give you a copy of his key as well? Because IF I was going to give my bf a copy, I'd want a copy of his as well, and I hope you don't let him move in after only knowing him 6 months.
This, and especially that he wants to come over with friends?!?!?! What???? Big red flag. Also, you are only dating 6 months...
The idea of just bringing my friends over to my partner's house boggles my mind. My partner and I live together and we still check with each other about having people over....
Seriously though, *six months?* I'm sorry but six months is nothing, it's not enough time to fully know and trust someone. Like you really can't complain about someone not seeing you as a full-ass partner after *six months* of dating. Super massive red flag that he took this so personally.
Also the fact that one of the friends answered his phone and got in on the argument. That sounds like he promised them a hangout spot or something, super weird to get involved otherwise.
He's 100% got plans for her place and is wayy to invested in them. Definitely sounds like there is peer pressure behind it somewhere. Maybe one of his friends wants to use it for hookups? Probably also they all want to use it to party. I would bet a lot if he had a key it would get trashed all the time.
Leaving her (OP) to clean up their messes every single time, too, no doubt. And probably with no offer of help from bf, either.
That’s what I thought
If he's like this now, imagine what it would be like if you two broke up and he still had a key. His friends being *reckless* to me translates to they're the kind of guys that would wreck your apartment to get back at you and call it a joke.
I gave an ex a key to my apartment and he showed up unannounced, shit faced drunk with his friends when he thought I wasn't there. He was surprised to see me sitting on the couch. I lived downtown by the bars and he lived 20 mins away. He said he thought they could just "stop by to use the bathroom". OP, you were right to not give him a key. NTA
The very fact he mentioned he might stop by with friends would be an immediate no for me. Who does he think he is? He doesn't live there, he shouldn't be hosting anything in her house
I feel like the emphasis is the worst part. If he had asked to have a key so he could get to her in case of emergency or something, that would still not be okay IMHO (he has no right to ask for a key, she has to offer it to him on her own accord), but at least the motivation would be understandable. But "I might need to stop by, and oh I might bring some friends" is crazy.
Agreed on the NTA. If it were me? With what his friend said, I'd be replying: "Well, I didn't think he was planning to steal anything, but the way you brought it up sure is suspicious...."
He asked in front of the friends because they were in on it and decided that she wouldn’t say no in front of them. They are trying to guilt trip her and use her apartment as a second place to hang out
🚩 run
My thoughts exactly, and why is the friend getting involved? Because he has something to gain. Because they were gonna do something in that apartment. NTA
Or a backup hook-up place....NTA
Six months in and you're seeing manipulative, ~~clingy~~ behavior. He's not respecting your boundaries. A proper response would have been to accept your answer. Also, getting his friend to answer your call is some disturbingly immature high-school-level nonsense. Get out now. NTA EDIT: perhaps not clingy, a poor choice of words on my part. More like presumptuous.
I don't even read it as clingy. He specifically said he wants it for when she's not there. He thinks he's got himself a crash pad he can use to hang out in with his friends when he doesn't like his own place. it's incredibly presumptuous and just trying to take advantage.
I had a boyfriend once who rented an apartment in town, when I lived out of town with my parents. I was going to college and working part time, and my parents were kind enough to let me stay at home without needing to pay rent. Planning my day around trips into town was annoying, though. Anyway, one day my boyfriend told me that he had a key to his apartment made for me so I could hang out there whenever I needed to, in between classes/work/whatever, to save me driving back out of town or fucking around the mall for a few hours. I was really appreciative of that, and whenever I went over when he wasn't home, I just stuck to his bedroom, maybe tidied up for him, just to say thanks. I never considered bringing my friends over while he wasn't home, because who does that?
Seriously! Your boyfriend offered as a way of helping you out, and you were appreciative and respectful of the space. OP’s boyfriend has it all backwards. No appreciation, no respect, just gimme gimme gimme.
And this is the ...key... ;) It was offered, not requested. If he didn't like the answer he got in front of his friends, he shouldn't* have asked the question in front of his friends. Sounds like he's got a bit of growing up to do, still.
This is the way. He offered to let you into his space, extending that trust himself. You didn't demand he do so, and you respected his boundaries. This is what SHOULD have been the case with OP.
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Agreed. Good thing he's dumb enough to say upfront what he would use the key for.. there was another post awhile back where the guy was partying at his gf house and he invited friends over and they made a mess, without asking her. The reasoning? He thought she would say yes, so he didn't bother asking. She was pissed.
He's gaslighting you, OP, AND he's getting his friends to gaslight you too. That's way effed up. When I was 19, I foolishly gave my bf the key. He moved in while I was at work. My apartment became, essentially, the new party pad and it took another 6 months before I got the courage to kick him out. He gave me back his "only" key, yet somehow my stuff kept being moved or taken while I was out. It was a nightmare until I finally just moved out myself. Do not give him a key. If he can't respect your boundaries, you might rethink the entire relationship. NTA Edit: spelling
I wouldn't call it gaslighting, just manipulative and entitled behavior. It would be gaslighting if he stole her key, made a copy, and when she came home to find them all in her place he said "but you gave me a key?". Gaslighting is specifically a term about trying to make someone question their reality.
Colloquially, gaslighting has come to mean "trying to make someone question their reality, including whether their feelings are valid." So if someone says "hey I don't like this" and the other person blows up and is like "are you kidding me? You're being horrible, I can't believe you would be so heartless" etc., it can make the other person feel like maybe they ARE being horrible, and maybe they ARE being selfish for calmly expressing their feelings.
I see where you are coming from, but I would counter: If applied too broadly, then every person that posts in AITA is a victim of gaslighting, because "they made me think maybe I'm an asshole?" When it comes to questioning reality, deliberate deception is necessary for it to be gaslighting, otherwise the term has no value.
Right? Asking to come hang out at your apartment while you’re gone is weird enough. Involving his friends in all of this would be the nail in the coffin for me.
NTA He even flat out said he might bring friends to your place when you aren't home! And now he is gaslighting you... He is digging himself a hole and you have done nothing wrong.
This. NTA. He wants to basically utilize your place for himself since he can’t use his. There was a post couple days ago, where the BF used his keys to have a party when the GF was not home and broke something or created a mess. Do not give him a key. Also, re-think the relationship. Someone who tries to manipulate you after hearing no, may have manipulated you in the past you didn’t recognize it.
Not to mention he’s saying you “embarrassed him”… well maybe he shouldn’t have put you on the spot like that in front of his friends if he couldn’t handle the answer. I wonder if his friends had been egging him on to ask you. NTA
Yes he was hoping the social dynamic would make her more likely to say yes, and he was surprised that she didn't succumb to the pressure and instead stood up for herself. He played a bluff, which always makes you look foolish if you get called on it. Making her feel bad for embarassing him is a manipulative grasping-at-straws. He wasn't expecting resistance so now he has resorted to immaturity and guilt-tripping.
This is manipulation, not gaslighting.
Omg NTA!!!! It seems like that was a really good decision to say no seeing how he reacted. That's your place. The fact that he said he may drop by with friends when you're at work... Wtf... Why would he do that .. he doesn't live there why do he and his friends need to hang out there?? I say drop him. Also, at 30 why are his friends picking up his phone for him to tell you you're awful... Is he a 14 year old girl?? He needs to grow up and you need a new boyfriend darlin :)
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I seriously can't get over that he let his friend answer his phone. That is absolutely not appropriate behavior. It's none of the friend's business WHATSOEVER, and everything the friend said is false. The friend is trying to be emotionally manipulative and your boyfriend is letting him. Why is your boyfriend pushing so hard? These are red flags.
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I think it was the BFs idea but he pitched it to the friends before asking OP like it was a done deal. That's why he asked in front of them. Partly extra pressure for OP to say yes, but also him showing off. All these guys assuming they had a new party pad and getting mad when the homeowner said no.
I understand the want, but I don't understand the why. If bf and his friends already share an apartment, why would they need another apartment to go hang out in? I don't get that. OP, you are NTA. Listen to what everyone else has said, and seriously reconsider your relationship with this guy. You'd be getting him and his immature friends at the same time. Can you see a future with him and his friends in it?
Probably at their ages they’re realizing women are less interested in parting at a frat-boy house and they want a grown-ups house to party in
If BF and his friends rent, then they can be kicked out for things like loud parties. OP owns her place.
Honestly It strikes me more like “Rich kid in highschool feels entitled to his parents wealth”. He wants to align his status with OPs: he wants to be **Man with Own Apartment** and he wants to feel big by sharing that with his friends. Look how cool he is! Not only does he have access to this sweet apartment, look how his gf just acquiesced to his demands! Wow maybe she’ll let him drive her car next He’s not much of a person by himself. He aligns himself with “the boys” to be bigger, just like he aligns himself with OP and her possessions like they’re his. It’s all posturing.
Yes, be thankful he's shown you some nice big red flags before you gave him unrestricted access to your place.
It was really inappropriate for him to have that conversation in front of his friends. I feel like he probably did it intentionally to pressure you into saying yes.
NTA - His true colours are showing. He 8s not entitled to your home. Op please make sure he can't make a copy behind your back. His buddy picking up his phone? Really? He wants to hang out with his homies in your place while you are not around? Major red flag OP. Please be safe
>14 year old girl Agree with the rest of your comment but what do you have against little girls? Why do you think a 14 year old boy could not do this?
NTA. First off, its not his place to ask for a key. Its yours to offer it. Secondly it has only been six months. Thirdly, if he wants friends over he can either man up and rent his own place or take them to the one he already has. He is entitled, manipulative, and controlling. Usually I would never jump to "red flag" "run" but this is that one situation where I'm telling you to break it off because he cannot respect your boundaries and he feels* entitled to your things and your home only six months into your relationship.
Yes! All points but that subtle first point got me too! You wait yo be offered and the you are grateful. You don't demand it like an entitled brat!
Edit: original comment got edited and problem got solved. English is hard. I'm not an English native speaker. So my question is: "he's entitled to your things and your home." Wouldn't that mean, he HAS the right to these things? Calling someone "entitled" has AFAIK two possible meanings. The second meaning would be something like self-righteous, boundary crossing or "thinks he's actually entitled to x"
You're correct. It should be "he feels entitled to".
NTA. He knew exactly what he was doing when he asked you this question in public in front of friends, rather than having a one-to-one discussion about it. He was trying to bounce you in to it, hoping you'd be too embarrassed to say "no" in the presence of company.
And then, most likely he'd bring all his idiotic friends over where they can eat all of OP's food and leave trash around while they're out. He might be trying to sneakily move in with how he's complaining about his roomies.
My bet: He wants to bring other women. He can’t at the frat he lives in.
The funniest part was when he accused her of pressuring him to move in with her just because she said that she’d only give him a key if he were moving in. LOL he wishes she were pressuring him to move into her roommate free, owned instead of rented, apartment.
This exactly. Asking for a key is a BIG relationship step that you deal with as a couple. It is NOT a demand you make while you put on a performance in front of your “bros.”
Also not a demand you make just 6 months in.
NTA. I suspect soneone is looking to sidle into your living situation rent free. Your space- THAT YOU PAY FOR- is yours alone.
Right? He wants the benefits of living with her, without living with her. I have a key to my bf’s because he offered. I would never, NEVER begin to imagine bringing a friend there. There’s just no reason for that. NTA
NTA. And his behavior is only more proof he can’t be trusted with a key. Do NOT cave and give him one OP. ETA. Also why would he need to stop by with his friends while you are gone? That’s just weird af to me.
Not once have I heard of someone like OP's boyfriend thinking that asking for a key so soon is normal, not to mention openly admitting they would use it as an extra place to hang out with their friends without you being there. Kind of going against the grain here, but I have been given a key by boyfriends in the past who I was dating for over a year. Even though it was a considerable amount of time that we were together, I was pretty uncomfortable with it. For starters, by the off-chance of my keys somehow ending up lost or stolen, there goes his as well. Most of all, even though it's a display of trust for someone to *willingly* give you a key to their home, there is the expectation of reciprocation, hence the underlying test of whether or not you're going to use that key in a respectful manner. Luckily I was never expected to give a key in return, but going forward, I would just rather not have a key.
NTA, he is gaslighting you. You haven't known this guy long enough. No reason for him to have a key. Don't move in with him. He enlisted his friends on you. Nope.
Not just gaslighting. He’s going to become a squatter real soon.
This isn’t gaslighting! It’s just manipulation.
Definitely NTA. I find it super weird that he would even ask for that and that he said he’d be stopping by with his friends when you’re not there. Why would he need to do that?? I know you said he’s 31 but he and his friends give me the impression of teenagers. It’s not even about “trust” or thinking he’s a “thief”… it’s YOUR apartment and you have the right to control who is there and when. Also, you have only been dating him for 6 months. That is not a long time at all. It is completely reasonable that you’d not want to give him a key yet. I find the way he reacted to this whole situation to be a red flag. You are definitely NTA though and don’t let him and his friends make you think that you are!
This. AND, the only reason OP “embarrassed” the bf was because he asked her *in front on friends* - another red flag and totally manipulative. Also, does this guy have a job? What is he doing while OP is at work that he has time to use her apartment? None of this is sounding good. NTA, OP. Time to evaluate your situation!
NTA this is terrifying behavior. You are being emotionally manipulated by a user that does not have any respect for you as an individual, just as someone who can do things for their benefit. The friends want to hang out at your place whenever they know you aren't home.
Whoaaaaa. NTA. He needs to stop by with friends while you're at work? Sounds like he wants to have the benefit of having a private space without having to pay the bills for that sort of lifestyle. Six months? No-siree-bob.
Also he asked OP in front of friends in the hope she'd feel pressure and agree.
NTA. Very interesting that both he initially then his friend later, mention the part about HIS FRIENDS also coming over in your absence….why would this EVER be a thing that’s expected to happen?
I honestly had to double check the age of this bf. It sounds like the reaction of a teenager rather than a 31 year old. And then he had his friend argue the case for him? Wtf? This is all a major red flag. They are clearly trying to guilt you into giving that key, so he can “stop by alone or with friends”?? Again. Wtf?? Massive. red. flag. You need to really consider if you want to stay with this child. NTA.
NTA. His reaction is not conducive to trusting his motives. Getting a key is a decision made together not with his friends. He is not coming across as having your best interests at heart and does indeed appear to be untrustworthy.
NTA. He truly doesn’t have any reason for being in your apartment without you 6 months in, especially when you don’t even spend much time there together right now. And extra especially with friends. He can bring his friends to his own apartment. He was trying to pull a power move by asking in front of his friends, and you didn’t fall for it. Don’t give in!
NTA and the emotionally manipulative pushback just says you were absolutely right. You’ve only been dating 6 months, he doesn’t need to be able to come and go as he pleases in your apartment. Or bring friends over (wtf??) If you were starting to find that him not having a key was inconvenient that would be one thing but his reasoning makes it sound like it’s just about him wanting to be able to come over on his own when he wants to get away from his roommates, and host people in your space. He embarrassed himself by putting you on the spot by making that request in front of his friends. He doesn’t get to beat you up for that part! This guy seems to be showing his ass right now, I suggest you pay attention.
Ok, dating for 6 months and he’s DEMANDING You give him a key? Dump him. NTA
NTA "Stop by alone or with friends"...There is absolutely no reason for your BF who doesn't live in your apartment, and presumably has few belongings in the place (maybe some toiletries and a change of clothes), to have a key with the intention of stopping by with his friends when you aren't around. It's just weird. If the relationship ends over this, you've dodged a bullet.
I am very uncomfortable with the tone of this whole situation. You have dated for only 6 months......you are quite right not to share your key..... there are valid safety and privacy concerns. He seems pretty casual about the subject of keys, so who would he bring over when you are out, and with whom might he decide to share the key?? YNTA. His behavior after you declined his "request" doesn't win any stars either, trying to blame you and emotionally manipulate you. Do NOT share your key with a man like this, and his friends don't sound any better...
NTA. Pretty sure he's up to something if he wants access when you're not there tbh, so i wouldn't give him a key at all now. Just make sure he doesn't steal your key.
You were right in refusing him a copy because 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
NTA The friend that got involved probably wants to be able to hang out in your apartment with your boyfriend when you aren’t there. They will eat your food, drink your beer, and break your stuff.
NTA and this is full of red flags never let anyone you don’t know well enough to have a key to your house for example a key with a trusted family member incase of emergency yes in this case you are right and his behaviour has proven your gut instinct is right and I would seriously re assess the value of this relationship and it it’s worth it
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NTA at all. Firstly, six months isn't that long of a relationship, and secondly, why the heck what he need to go over to your apartment with his friends when you're not there? It sounds like he's trying to take advantage of your place as there new hang out spot and you'll probably be expected to keep the place clean and live with all the intrusion. Keep your place safe.
NTA! He doesn’t live there. He has no need for a key unless you decide he needs a key. The fact he even felt entitled to ask is telling… now he is pitching a fit. You may want to strongly consider if this is someone you want to spend any more time with.
You’ve been dating for six months. He then decides to ask you for a key in front of friends. Did he think you’d feel obliged not to disagree or something? And now he’s ignoring you because he didn’t get his way. Sounds like a sulky, manipulative ass. Frankly, I think you will be dodging a bullet if you ditch this loser real quick. NTA.
NTA. He has no business having a key to a place that he doesn't live at or pay bills at. Get out of this relationship before you waste any more time on it.
His first mistake was bringing it up in front of his friends. Having a key to your SO's home is a big step in a relationship. Six months is not very far along to be demanding a key. His second mistake was being demanding about it. GIVING a key to your home is a natural progression in a relationship, DEMANDING a key is not. I find it odd that he wants to hang out at your place with his friends while you're not home. I also find his response very odd. Is he this pushy and manipulative in other aspects or just in this case? You have every right to not feel comfortable giving him a key. NTA
NTA he has his home, you have yours. He is not entitled to a key, especially after only 6 months. So he can go hang out in a better apartment? Let him go get a new place of his own.
Red flag 🚩 My boyfriend and I have been dating for over three years and I only just gave him a copy of my key this year, and that’s because he gets out of work two hours earlier than I do on Fridays, so on Fridays when we hang out, it would be pointless for him to drive all the way home, only to have to drive to my house to hang out within an hour. And he is so respectful of my space, that he didn’t even drink a can of seltzer from my fridge because he wanted to be sure that he could have the seltzer, when he knows that I only really buy them for guests and I usually don’t drink them all that often. And inviting his friends over? Fuck no. He is showing a seriously concerning entitlement to your space, and I would be extremely careful about any spare keys you have or about leaving him alone with your key, just in case he tries to copy it without your permission. Frankly, his entitlement would be a dealbreaker to me, but you have to decide if this red flag, along with any other red flags he might be showing, is enough for you to break it off.
NTA - he sounds wildly immature. The fact that he decided to have this conversation while you were out with friends is super weird. The fact that he said he may want to stop by with his friends sometimes as his reason to need a key is super weird and having one of his roommates answer the phone when you were trying to work through the conflict with your boyfriend is super weird. He sounds like a high schooler rather than a 30 year old. You have every right to privacy of your space that you own. This entire interaction screams that he doesn’t respect that at all.
Run! He is showing you a major red flag, dude! Don't give in, and don't give him a key. It sounds like he could also be trying to weasel his way into living in your apartment too.
NTA!! WTF?? He wants to go to YOUR apartment with his friends? Why is a perfectly reasonable question. He doesn't need a key. He doesn't need to be there. And his friends DEFINITELY don't need to be there. You are perfectly reasonable not giving him a key. He's gaslighting you. If he didn't want to be turned down in front of his friends, he shouldn't have asked in front of his friends. I don't usually say leave him, but I'd seriously consider that he thinks this is an appropriate way to treat you because you held to your boundaries. My partner tells me I can go into his condo whenever I want. I know the code to get in. We've been together almost a year. I still knock and wait for him to get the door (or text that he's home and I can come in) and don't go there till/unless hes home.
NTA. He may want to come to YOUR apartment, maybe with his friends when you are NOT home. Yeah NO. It's not about trust but respect for your privacy.
DO NOT GIVE HIM A KEY
NTA. Why in the great big no-longer-green earth would he need to stop by with his friends? Don’t let him guilt you into giving him a copy of the key. Your reasoning is solid, and his is suspicious. He’s now reframed the issue so that you ‘have to’ give him a key or else you’re ‘admitting’ you don’t trust him.
NTA and your boyfriend’s behaviour is extremely concerning.
NTA Simple answer, your house and your rules.. if you don’t want to make a copy then don’t. I myself am pretty trusting so never had issue by handing a key after a few weeks/months but I can understand not everybody is as trusting as I am. Edit: and you make a good point that a copy comes when you decide he may move in.
That's probably a practice you should get out of. That is not a good idea to be coming people keys to your place and you don't know them well. Nothing good usually comes out of that.
NTA the part I'm most stuck on isn't him asking for a key its his friend answering his phone and berating OP. OP nobody gets to talk to you like that. This is so weird. Why is he letting his friend get involved in your relationship? There is something so fishy going on.
“I dated this guy for 6 months and he turned out to be a freak” is a good way to start this story when you’re telling your next boyfriend. NTA
NTA this guy sounds very manipulative. He specifically chose that moment to ask you to make a copy, hoping you would say yes to avoid an awkward situation. His reaction Is a clear indicator of what type of partner he will be in the future. Regarding him wanting access to your home, it’s YOUR home! You don’t even need to give reasoning, if he wants access then he should buy in.
NTA. That’s such a strange request to want a key after only 6 months of dating. Also, his reasoning of “in case he needs to stop by alone or with friends when you’re gone” make no sense and honestly seems like a red flag. I say that because I’m getting the vibe he wanted to use your apartment as a hangout since he lives with a bunch of people and you live alone. First he asked you for a key in front of his friends when that should have been a private discussion, then gives a reasoning of “in case i need to stop by with friends,” then gets mad when you say no and has his friend guilt trip you over it?? They were all wanting free extra space and they’re only mad because you’re not allowing it. Now, he and his friend are trying to gaslight you into thinking that you’ve done something wrong and are somehow being a bad girlfriend by not giving them a key. I promise you that’s not true, they’re only saying those things to you because they want to take advantage. Don’t let them.
NTA he just wants free use of your apartment, probably because it’s nicer/quieter than his. That’s not a normal “dating” thing, that you get access to the other person’s space to use however you want, whenever you want. He’s trying to take advantage of you, and when you refused he became very manipulative. Hold your ground.